win 99% of every
auction I bid because of sniping plus the AUCTION
HOUSE can not see my maximum bid!!!
Todd Spoor
-Original Message-
From: James Richard
Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM
To: MoPo
Rich and others,
Well, not to act like another panicky villager with a pitchfork, but I
had also been wondering for several years about the large increase in
the number of high-end pieces coming to market -- when many of these
items had previously been seen for sale much less frequently. And
Diane,
This is a classy statement to make. Well said. It's obvious that most
everyone had become too casual about too many aspects throughout our
hobby-industry and pride doth go before a fall.
-- JR
Diane Jeffrey wrote:
I have known John Davis, probably longer than anyone. I first knew
I have regularly heard the word 'patina' also used by experts in
describing the finish of antique wood furniture, porcelain and all kinds
of other physical objects of art. Applying it to a poster is
questionable, but I suppose one could use it to describe the look of the
surface... i.e., that
Steve,
You are right on all points. In the past, after the outrage subsided,
things went on just as before. This time may be different for a couple
of reasons:
1) A *lot* more money was lost on these high-end fakes. Millions of
dollars by some accounts.
2) The reports coming out clearly
Diane,
You should consider legal action against John Davis -- or at least
demand a public apology. Instead of standing up like a man and admitting
that Hey folks, I simply didn't realize S2art.com was using 100-year
old French presses to exactly duplicate stone litho printing that looks
just
Diane,
It is obvious that the cardboard was applied by the fraudsters, then
removed to leave a residue of glue and paper, in order to disguise the
fact that it was too thick and too new when it was handed over for
backing and restoration. They figured this would not only disguise the
fact
OK, finally. Quite a few days late and a couple hundred thousand dollars
short, but at least he's stopped blowing smoke and trying to shift
responsibility to someone else. There's hardly any sacrifice in giving
up his authentication service at this point, as I kinda doubt he was
going to be
Steve,
While I think Profiles did a poor job of presenting the poster with
their low-quality pictures and initial sketchy description, they
actually *did* take responsibility and do the right thing prior to
putting it in their catalog -- they went to one of the most respected
experts in the
Sean, Bruce (and others),
I've discussed this with Sean and with several other people who are in
the know privately, off-list. And all I can say is this:
If you (or anyone) has got private inside information that actually
*proves* something about Jamie Mendez then you (or anyone) can only do
Just like an out of court settlement where everyone signs binding
non-disclosure statements, here the general public is left hanging with
no real answers. So, did someone/something finally convince PIH that
this poster was not the real deal? Did John Davis end up recanting his
COA? Will this
Fine. they just are getting
tired of americans and want some Anthony Benaditto cds.
James Richard wrote:
Channing,
Jeez, but this list is full of jokers, ain't it? On the chance that
you actually did want to know what Non Ammesso means, the online
translator at Yahoo says it means
Bruce,
Hah! Fat chance... you think I'm going to hustle over to your scam
website where I wouldn't even have sniper capabilities? Why, everyone
knows that snipers are the Buyer's Savior from the greed and chicanery
of feelthy auctioneers... they are the great leveler of the playing
field so
TIME readers are easily frightened...
-- JR
Roger Kim wrote:
I went to look up whether Frankenstein (1931) is truly the greatest
horror film of all time.
I'm not sure of the answer, but I did discover that Bambi is one of
the top 25 horror films. It says so in Time magazine.
Randall,
This info on how to use a microscope is very valuable and, heck, it's
just interesting stuff to know even if one is not trying to authenticate
a poster. But...
...that is exactly what John Davis of Poster Mountain did do with the
Dracula poster -- examine it under the microscope.
Exactly. That's the crucial aspect:
While some of this extensive restoration, overpainting, etc. may have
been done by people who planned to keep the poster in their collection
permanently and were so fond of the image that they just had to have the
poster made to look as nice as possible for
Grey,
Well, since your message ended up going public, I have two comments:
1) Thanks for the tip about Gavelsnip.com, I didn't know about that one.
2) Since it is possible to snipe Heritage auctions in the last
micro-second, wouldn't it be a good idea for Heritage to implement on
its
Grey,
How is extended bidding a waste of time? If no last second bid comes in,
then the auction closes as scheduled. If a last second bid does come in,
automatically extending the auction's end time by maybe 2 minutes gives
other bidders who want the item a chance to trump the last-second
especially if it closes at an odd time or if you
are at work. I win 99% of every auction I bid because of sniping plus
the AUCTION HOUSE can not see my maximum bid!!!
Todd Spoor
-Original Message-
From: James Richard
Sent: Sep 28, 2009 4:05 PM
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Channing,
Jeez, but this list is full of jokers, ain't it? On the chance that you
actually did want to know what Non Ammesso means, the online
translator at Yahoo says it means: Not Admitted
-- http://babelfish.yahoo.com/translate_txt
Not very helpful, I'm sure. You already knew they didn't
Alright, Jimbo, so I misread that Diane was talking about window cards
instead of lobby cards, but the operative word in either case is card
and aside from the fact that a window card is a bit longer, structurally
they are the same, so why wouldn't the same restoration techniques be
applied to
John,
Precisely my feelings. Considering the hobby-industry is now looking at
some $2 million or more in fake paper having been floated before anyone
noticed, I'd say it is long past time for the backers and restorers to
form a guild and establish some rules of the road. Doubt it will happen,
That some impressive inflation, particularly considering that prices on
most collectibles are down in this current economy -- but old record
collectors are even crazier than movie poster collectors. But at least
their hobby is probably reasonably safe from anyone creating convincing
fakes...
Rick,
Otherwise, we ourselves will be an INTREGAL PART of turning Movie
Poster Collecting EVEN ON IT'S HIGHEST LEVEL into a BUYER's MARKET. If
the day comes when you can buy an authentic, original CASABLANCA US
1-Sheet for $7500 or an original FRANKENSTEIN US 1-Sheet for
$75,000, our hobby
Rich,
Your example has undoubtedly been repeated thousands of times over the
past 20 years. It results from too much Big Money moving into the hobby,
as others have already discussed. What happens then is that people look
at their items, things they previously would have been perfectly
Rich,
It's funny how nobody remembers how absolutely great everyone thought
Ebay was at first. Suddenly there was this huge market you could sell
into and you actually got *much higher* prices for things than you
otherwise would have. I sold my collection of early WEIRD TALES pulps in
1998
Sean,
It's kind of weird. I think you and I agree on far more than we
disagree, and yet we always seem to be correcting each other. Anyway, it
is important to note that Jamie Mendez has officially denied in a court
statement all charges that he had anything to do with the fakes. Now, in
this
David,
I live on the plant where Steve McQueen and Elvis (among others) are
fading in buyer interest and popular culture -- are they more popular
than ever on your planet?
-- JR
David Lieberman wrote:
Steve Mcqueen and Elvis are not fading in buyer interest or from
popular culture.
Eureka!
Nathalie has clearly found a woman who is more than eminently qualified
to serve as the official expert to issue Opinion of Authenticity
certificates on all future high-end poster auctions! Problem solved.
-- JR
After watching the Joe Maddalena interview, I found this and wondered
Michael,
Well, you probably didn't have to worry earlier, but these days I would
have real concern if the poster is linen-backed. With modern
photo/scanning/printing techniques it is just do damn easy to create a
full-sized reproduction on paper that is close enough so when it is
For those who may have missed this transparent overlay comparison of the
Profiles DRACULA image with images of two other known originals, here's
the link:
http://stylec.yuku.com/topic/6364
Now if the Borst and Feiertag images didn't match up so well *with each
other* one might put this down
Off Topic. Bad audio quality. Fuzzy video. Over long. LOL? How about BS
(barely snickered)?
Did I mention this post is so far off topic that you could use it as a
dictionary definition for the term?
-- JR
Brek Anderson wrote:
Caution: This film contains some colorful language.
I fail to understand how a professional restorer could fail to check
for accuracy of something they were adding to a poster. How could a pro
not realize that he couldn't just copy the number off of a Style F
version of the poster onto this one? This is the kind of thing you pay a
pro to handle
it and you still aren't happy.
-- Sent from my Palm Pre-
James Richard wrote:
I fail to understand how a professional restorer could fail to check
for accuracy of something they were adding to a poster. How could a
pro
OK, great... but could you tell us exactly what you did to convince Ebay
to let you relist the items she had tagged and which they had previously
told you they would ding you for if you relisted them again?
-- JR
David Lieberman wrote:
Well.we were finally able to re list the four
From the kind of things they've been quoted as saying in the press
recently, it sounds like several of the top boys at Heritage see
themselves as Gordon Gekko from the 1987 film WALL STREET -- where the
scoundrel was originally played by Michael Douglas, but is now
apparently being recast in a
I think this is exactly what California needs to solve its fiscal
crisis: Adopt Ebay polices for the whole state. Charge everyone a
30-cent residence fee every time they wake up each morning. Unless
they want to express reservations about getting out of bed, in which
case they have to pay
Right... and John Lennon officially said Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds
was not written about LSD either, but about a picture Paul's kid drew.
These were the kinds of official denial statements that were issued
after there was a social backlash against pop music and movie stars
popularizing
not correct, actually. The picture was drawn by Julian Lennon,
as I remember it. Paul had no kids at the time that song was written.
Kirby McDaniel
www.movieart.net http://www.movieart.net
On Sep 17, 2009, at 2:30 PM, James Richard wrote:
Right... and John Lennon officially said
Rich,
Here's where you and I disagree: You say that is how it is supposed to
work. I say that is how it has often been worked in the past, but not
how it is supposed to work. Even though you personally don't like
hidden reserves, you seem resigned to there always being hidden reserves
and
John,
Apparently I was under a misapprehension as well because I thought
Heritage still used hidden reserves. If not and, as you say, no one at
Heritage ever pushes the price above the reserve, then what was N.P.
Gresham doing? I realize you probably can't comment on that because of
the
.
- Original Message -
From: James Richard jrl...@mediabearonline.com
To: MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
Sent: Wednesday, September 16, 2009 5:12:55 PM GMT -05:00 US/Canada
Eastern
Subject: Re: [MOPO] Heritage Response
John,
Apparently I was under a misapprehension as well because I
Phil,
There's a very real difference today compared to the shill-bidding of
the past. Prior to internet bidding, there was no way for the house
shill to *know* what the other bidders were willing to pay as their
maximum bid. So it was much harder for a shill to keep pushing up the
price
Very negatively. I would have to want the poster extremely badly and
feel I had no chance of ever getting it any place else except at
Heritage -- and there are no titles I can afford that fall into that
category. So I guess that means I won't be bidding much, if at all, with
Heritage in the
Good answer! Hilarious!
N.P. Gresham wrote:
KEEPING YOUR ANSWER BRIEF..how does the news of heritage
affect your bidding ? (Sunday versus Signature)
I may ease up a bit, but maybe not.
N.P.
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
Grey,
It's standard legal strategy for any company to automatically issue a
statement that any lawsuit filed against it is merely the petty,
vindictive action of a disgruntled former employee or associate or
customer, so I won't address that.
And I do want to say at first that, since this
Rich,
I gotta disagree on the idea that it is OK to only shill up to the
reserve and thus insure the item sells. For one thing, it encourages
the placing of unrealistically high reserves. But I never approved of
hidden reserves in any case. It seems to me the proper way for an
auction house
Jeff,
The new paper would be the first tell-tale that the lobby cards were
repros. The heavier card stock paper which lobby cards have always been
printed on tends to age to yellowish/brownish cream color rather quickly
-- and the paper generally had a slightly rougher surface that most of
Oh, wow... and we thought the double-talk about a clearly faded poster
being described as may be faded was disingenuous. This article is
bizarre, in it the President of Heritage admits that they have been
using a shill (s?) to bid on their auctions, but is actually quoted as
claiming that it
Sorry to double post, but I had to read the article over a couple of
more times just to cut through all the double-talk (and all the useless
testimonials posted as comments at the end of the article). When I had
done that I just had to post my own comment on the article:
So, just because
The short answer is no -- not if you are talking about most things.
There have been numerous attempts to compete with Ebay in general
merchandise auctions, but Ebay is just too big and none have been very
successful.
In the case of certain special fields, like movie posters, there have
been
Ralph,
It's not quite that straight forward. I've been informed that in order
for the Post Office to act on a mail fraud complaint that something
has to be actually sent through the mails to be in their jurisdiction.
In the case of poster that were never sent, there is no mail fraud. In
the
But was it acid-free pink styrofoam insulation?
Dave Rosen wrote:
Just got a 1-sheet that was shipped taped to a pink styrofoam
insulation panel.
Not only was it uncreased but it arrived warm and toasty!
Dave
Visit the MoPo Mailing List Web Site at www.filmfan.com
Great move by Bruce, to be sure, but I'm perplexed that it took so long
for this Cine Poster issue to come to everyone's attention. I mean, I
know we concentrate on US-release posters, but still you would have
thought that over the years someone would have said... hey, Cine Poster
is the
Yes. To conserve archive space, I simply second (or third) this statement.
Well phrased double-talk is still double-talk.
-- JR
Franc wrote:
Nicely put. FRANC
-Original Message-
*From:* MoPo List [mailto:mop...@listserv.american.edu] *On Behalf
Of *Andrea Kanter
Rich,
Your understanding/interpretations/opinions of the legal precedents in a
case like this and my own clearly differ. But since neither of us are
lawyers -- and even lawyers can't usually agree what the law actually
says or means in much of the time (which is why we have juries) -- we
This is the big area where Ebay is become really bad. They have made it
impossible to know who the bidders on an auction are, and made it
impossible for anyone but the seller to contact the bidders. I used to
regularly warn bidders when they were bidding on a clear fake or repro
being
So, I guess if we were to look up tenacious in the dictionary we would
see a picture of Sean?
Just my personal observation here, but since Sean does so much of that
I'm sure he won't object to me making one or two of my own:
Sean always seems to be questioning Bruce's intent, integrity, or
Rich,
I'm just guessing here, based on long-term observation:
I think there was only 1 color that VERTIGO was printed in for the
original theatrical release. The NSS printing and distribution service
was in its prime back then and their print shops were *very* consistent
in producing the
jobs at multiple locations --
like the kind of operation the NSS ran.
-- JR
James Richard wrote:
Rich,
I'm just guessing here, based on long-term observation:
I think there was only 1 color that VERTIGO was printed in for the
original theatrical release. The NSS printing and distribution
Todd,
Hmmm... well...OK, then... in that specific case, use of a *small*
amount of translucent paint to bring up a small faded area to match the
rest of the poster might be considered acceptable restoration... but
it would have to be a very small area, about 10% or less of the image
area for
OK, look, it's like Bruce said: These translucents are NOT new. There
is no mystery to them. They are simply high-grade acrylic artist's
paints. Basically, they are liquid plastic color. You can buy them in
any art supply store (and in the crafts section at Wal-Mart). They have
been around for
Sean,
In theory, both you and Bruce are right. From a purely moral and ethical
standpoint the unknowing middlemen should have to reimburse their
customers. But what about practical matters? How many of those
middlemen have $20,000 or $30,000 or more free cash laying around that
they can hand
Statements of mutual support and solidarity among dealers is very nice
sentiment and all... and no one is claiming that the vast majority of
well-known dealers are anything other than honest and professional --
but you can't ignore the fact that it was other dealers equally
well-known and
:* James Richard mailto:jrl...@mediabearonline.com
*To:* Sean Linkenback mailto:slinkenb...@comcast.net
*Cc:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
mailto:MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
*Sent:* Monday, September 07, 2009 4:44 AM
*Subject:* Re: [MOPO] Bruce's latest information on the fakes
Oh, Rick, c'mon... the current situation is nothing like all the
previous examples you cite. As you pointed out, with all the others
there were ways for an educated buyer to recognize that he wasn't being
offered an authentic original theatrical release poster. Different
dimensions. Different
Sean,
My, you've been kind of snippy with everyone of late... you getting
enough sleep? I didn't get that Franc was advocating going back to the
way things were done 20 years ago. I think it was pretty obvious that he
was responding to Michael's question in the spirit in which it was
asked:
Michael,
Actually, yes, they could have. In fact they did -- the fake lobby cards
are not backed. They simply sanded off the image from the front of a
genuine old but cheap lobby card, then carefully glued the fake image
onto the old card stock. You could also do this with an insert -- and it
Todd,
Now, see, I consider that to be creating a fake poster. Reapplying color
to an entire poster -- rather than one small damaged piece of it -- is
completely *changing* the original poster and even if it is translucent
color I'm sure such a process is irreversible and it is over-painting,
It is doubtful the Academy asked this artist to:
1) Paint his exact repro on old poster paper or
2) Artificially age the paper to look like old paper and then
3) Linen-back it exactly as a real poster would have been, or to glue it
onto a genuine old poster which had had the image sanded off
Anne,
Thanks for bringing this up. It's an important issue but one which has a
lot of tricky aspects...
For one thing, if collectors start doing less restoration and backing
that means hard times for the wizards and hard working honest people at
the restoration and backing studios who
So, lemme get this straight... David has had 4 of his perfectly
legitimate poster listings immediately *yanked* by Ebay because some
crazy old actress thinks she owns the rights to her name on a poster,
even though she knows she signed those rights away over 50 years ago to
the movie studio...
Neil,
Unfortunately, you are quite correct and it is no joke. If you happened
to be the owner of a very desirable Universal Horror piece in, say, only
good condition but mostly intact, today you actually could:
Tear the poster into four irregular pieces and send each one to a
different
Todd,
Only if the community doesn't insist otherwise -- which I agree it
probably will not. But if pressure could be brought to bear to reveal
the names of those who currently own the fakes (some people know these
names), then that might prevent these items from being sold or traded to
Ari,
Time to think outside the box. First of all, let's not use the term COA
since it has been discredited by the collectible manufacturing
industry which printed them up by the millions. I'm talking about a
signed and dated opinion of authenticity from a real recognized expert
with the
Several years ago... maybe 3 or 4... I proposed a uniform
identification/signature standard for linen-backers and restorers. The
idea was mostly shrugged off with the same silly talk about how would
you sew it on? and what if the signature bleed through to the front of
the poster? and such.
Oh, wow... that really is too much. Obviously she's not all there
anymore and not be behind this at all... some shyster lawyer or relative
may has got his claws into her and is pushing this.
Hey... just for the fun of it... what if you gathered all the links to
all of the other posters with
to address some (not all) of
those by highlighting/italicizing in your reply copied below ...
In any case, if offense was taken in my original reply, I apologize,
as I meant no personal affront.
Regards,
ad
--- On *Tue, 9/1/09, James Richard /jrl...@mediabearonline.com/* wrote:
From: James
Sorry, Rich, I gotta disagree with you and Steve there.
We're not talking about $200 posters... we're talking about $20,000 and
up being paid for fakes that are now being done so skillfully that they
will fool educated, informed buyers and maybe even a lot of old hands.
From this day forward,
Warranties are all good and well, but I'm maintaining that it in the
future it would be far better for the hobby, the business, the auction
houses and dealers and ultimately the buyers if independent, recognized
(and named) expert verification were done for a very pricey item prior
to it being
Red Herring Alert! Red Herring Alert!
As far as I know, NOBODY proposed issuing COAs for posters, and yet
suddenly we have a full blown discussion dissing COAs and talking
about how useless they are as if someone *had* made such a proposal.
Hmmm... what's up with that?
A signed statement
of our auctions. This is also
something that only Heritage offers to their bidders.
*From:* MoPo List [mailto:mop...@listserv.american.edu] *On Behalf Of
*James Richard
*Sent:* Sunday, August 30, 2009 2:40 PM
*To:* MoPo-L@LISTSERV.AMERICAN.EDU
*Subject:* Re: [MOPO] FRANKENSTEIN 1/2 sheet vs
Michael,
There are lots of mistakes made in movies, but the one you mention isn't
one of them.
You have forgotten how the movie industry operated in the 1940's and
early 1950's. In those days, movies were the only source of media
entertainment besides radio (television was just getting
Well, maybe a partial solution anyway. I've been reading but not
commenting on this situation because everyone else was saying it all.
Sue and others have very correctly pointed out that even with filing of
a legal action field and the certainty that high-quality fakes were
created and sold,
A classic example of what virtually all auctioneers/sellers engage in --
and not just with movie posters -- the fine art of making a sow's ear
sound like a silk purse.
Phil Edwards wrote:
From Heritage's description of this poster:
*This poster has had extensive restoration. The original
I might be so audacious and impertinent as to suggest that a responsible
and highly-regarded auction house catering to the very well-to-do and
regularly selling tens of millions of dollars of high-priced
collectibles every year would have taken it upon themselves to include a
high resolution
Actually, it's only very good as artwork, not as reproduction. In
fact, I tip my hat to the artist who did the in-painting for being an
honest and honorable person. Here's why: It is obvious he was talented
enough to accurately reproduce the actor's expressions from the title
card if he had
OK... now let me get this straight:
1) Everyone hates E/flea/bay for about a hundred very good reasons, so
obviously not one of us would ever want to list or buy there again.
2) Bruce does too good a job pushing his auctions on us and gets too
much money for posters except when he doesn't
Everyone seems to be so reactionary these days... is it just the hot
summer weather, the recession or what? Sure, every once in a while you
run across someone who is making an unacceptable profit on the
handling side of the shipping and handling charge, or packaging
really badly, but it is
Aw, c'mon guys... of course Ebay wants to control everything about its
auction site. If any of us owned Ebay we would want to do the same --
business is business. The things people are complaining about are hardly
latest changes -- this was all old news back in 1998 when I first
started
Bruce,
I think your subject says it all: There are now several generations of
younger movie poster collectors to whom vintage means the late 1980's.
A 22-year old buying the 2008 poster for GRAN TORINO today would not
have even been born yet in 1986. I think some of the prices you showed
us
David,
Just for the heck of it, what did you rep say when you pointed out
that where were, like 40 other listings for this poster from other
sellers currently running on eBay.
And Peter and others are quite correct: Ms. Crazy/Senile Corday's
intellectual property rights do NOT extend to a
Cory,
This is an interesting idea, and I think the major full-time poster
sellers here on MOPO should start emailing each other privately to see
if they can get some kind of self-defense coop going. I'm sure there
must be some lawyers on MOPO who could possibly offering letter-writing
Evan,
Slow down. Your original point, which is that $486 was way too high for
that poster when another just solid for $20 is valid as far as it
goes... but you yourself were saying the $486 is obviously way too high,
so why complain when someone (Bruce or anyone else) offers to pay $100
to
Bruce (if that's who you really are),
I'm going to suggest you avoid vacations in the future. You are a
workaholic and so vacations are not healthy for you. They clearly impair
your critical judgment. C'mon... you couldn't possibly have been serious
when you said I think this is one of the
OK, I just had to pass it on... this is clearly the wave of the future
for online auctions which Bruce and Rich need to catch:
Swoopo.com conducts auctions for a wide variety of consumer products where the
winning bid typically tops out at a small fraction of the retail price...
BUT... the
, I think they are
harvesting emails to resell from people who do sign up, because they
won't let you change your email address once you register.
-- JR
James Richard wrote:
OK, I just had to pass it on... this is clearly the wave of the future
for online auctions which Bruce and Rich need
When I first started buying and selling on Ebay in 1998, sellers were
always willing to tell you their reserve price if you asked. They
weren't interested in playing some kind of mystery game or qualifying
the bids hustle, they only wanted to make sure their item went for at
least X dollars. I
Hmmm... one thing I've noticed about these #1 poster choices is that
almost all of them are for *very old* posters. Is that because MOPO is
filled with oldsters whose tastes were formed way back when or is it
because the old posters were, as a rule, simply much better-looking and
evocative
It's human nature, to try to squeeze out the best possible description
on an item you are selling and unless the seller really holds himself to
a consistently high standard, that tendency can easily get out of hand.
Hey, just stop by a used car lot and talk with a salesman... But, Bruce,
even
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