I genuinely would love to own Pirsig's boat, but don't have the resources. It
is, however, for sale (apologies if this is already common knowledge):
http://www.westsailparts.com/index.php?curPage=Boats_for_SaleboatName=arete
Ian MacLean
San Francisco
Moq_Discuss mailing list
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I think this 2010 interview says a lot.
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2010/sep/20/robin-williams-worlds-greatest-dad-alcohol-drugs
Sad.
Ian
On Tue, Aug 12, 2014 at 5:53 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
When I read that Robin William died I couldn't quite believe it was
THAT Robin
Wow, thanks for highlighting that Dan DMB, passed me by.
How dreadful - thoughts with JC and family.
Ian
On Wed, Jul 23, 2014 at 3:43 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Dan said:
For those who haven't heard, our friend John suffered a fall while trimming
trees. He broke both wrists
,
and only after 1, 2 and 3 are established in the conversation.
Regards
Ian
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arlo,
one - that was a process describing critcism very explcitly, indeed
recommending it as sound teaching for the novice.
two - sure I broke my own (aspirational) rule. so what should you read into
that rhetorical choice. more ad-hominen things about ian or .
ian
On 16 Jul 2014 14:54, ARLO
Not sure if people noticed a recent (few weeks ago) edition of In Our Time:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b043xpkd
Leads eventually to the romanticisation of orientalism picked-up by
50's/60's popular culture. (And we recall it was one of two books
Pirsig had with him in is saddlebag.)
Ian
intellect scores
over (mere) feeling.
Carry on girls.
Ian
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On Mon, Jun 2, 2014 at 6:10 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
Clearly short-hand naming of groups can be misused...
[Arlo]
Clearly.
[IG] Ha - irony bypass there.
[Ian]
... different people have different propensities to mental styles that use
the different halves
How does that - feeling informs intellect - in any way conflict with
what I said?
Ian
On Fri, Jun 6, 2014 at 12:46 AM, Ron Kulp xa...@rocketmail.com wrote:
Ian,
Very much the opposite (as always)
Feeling informs intellect, but that Doesn't give bullshit authority over
reason.
Carry on you
to mental styles that use the
different halves. But as we said, the brain (and neurophysiological
system generally) is plastic, differences are dynamic, and we can all
learn to compensate and use both halves appropriately.
Quality is appreciating and acting on that knowledge.
Ian
On Fri, May 30
of
neurophysiology is no defence. Several good sessions at Hay with
McGilchrist (much promoted by IAI and linked many times previously on
MD) and Penrose.
Only rough notes from Hay blogged so far, but hoping to edit some
articles by the weekend.
MD needs to let some light in to coin a phrase.
Ian
On Sat, May
to arrive at truth is
falsification and critical thinking, that's simply a way to test
potential truths. The easy bit.
Ian
On Fri, May 23, 2014 at 9:24 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
The study of philosophy cultivates a healthy scepticism about the moral
opinions, political arguments
are determisitic, the physical brain is very
plastic too (as JC's personal story illustrates, but there's plenty
out there too). Even male / female brain traits incidentally - not
deterministic, but real and relevant.
Ian
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for the beats
migrating from NYC to San Fran. And during the 1968 ZMM trip Watts was
still living on his houseboat in SanFran when Pirsig visited the Zen
Centre there after he'd put Chris on a train home. (Watts died in 1973
before ZMM was published.)
Anyone know of any Pirsig / Watts connections ?
Ian
Comforting to hear you've already made the connection.
If your memoir is commercially available post a link. Otherwise forward
anything you want Bob to see, with any letter of introduction.
Regards
Ian
On 29 May 2014 16:58, Michael R. Brown m...@fuguewriter.com wrote:
Watts is a wonder. One
Phew!
On Tue, May 20, 2014 at 4:49 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
John,
I for one am glad they didn't run you off. I enjoy our discussions
even if we don't agree. I think it's good to examine these differences
of opinion and helps to build a more solid foundation for the MOQ.
, experience and understanding from the beholder and/or critic.
But this is Ant's specialist subject, so I'll butt out.
Ian
On Fri, May 16, 2014 at 6:47 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Ant,
It makes sense to me that we're all artists but it doesn't make sense to me
that everything we do
with scientific evidence.
Ian
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:44 AM, Jan Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
Good morning fellows
Here are an author that have received The Sveriges Riksbank Prize in Economic
Sciences in Memory of Alfred Nobel, (no it is NOT the Nobel Prize in Economy
because
Yes, he was brought to MD attention before ... last time in the
Pirsig Central Metaphor thread back in February. David Morey has
been bring him to the MD table for a while.
Pearls before swine ?
Ian
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 9:55 AM, Jan Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
Yes Ian
Lots of MD references back in 2013, 2011, maybe earlier.
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:05 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Yes, he was brought to MD attention before ... last time in the
Pirsig Central Metaphor thread back in February. David Morey has
been bring him to the MD
Kahneman
(4th post of the day)
Ian
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:21 AM, Jan Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
ail.com
To: moq_disc...@moqtalk.org
X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.1085)
What words are you searching? I tried system 1 and found System but not
System 1.
Kahneman - no matches
(5th post of the day)
I use 21st century Google to search - rather than the steam-driven
mailing-list sofware ;-)
(PS love you Horse)
Ian
On Thu, May 15, 2014 at 10:29 AM, Jan Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
Search results
No matches were found for 'kahneman'
Check the spelling
it.
An intellect informed by pre-intelletual radical-empiraical
Pirsigian-quality is surely better than one that is not. Like GOF
intellect, only better.
Ian
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framework: Whatever framework you choose is always less than
the Dharma itself, and whatever definition you give quality is less
than quality itself. (Robert Pirsig, 1975)
Ian
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Don't know Auxier, but that is entertaining. Thanks John.
Ian
On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 3:39 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
... pragmatists in the James-Dewey temper will have to learn
*difficult*philosophy, something they have successfully avoided doing
for about three
generations
that MD's mailing list technology predates all these tagging based
apps, MD is no different. If someone emails a reading link to MD,
other MD users can assume it probably has some significance to MoQ. As
you did.
Ian
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014 at 7:33 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote
No kind of mix up.
It was Goodall's review of Frentz that made the latter day Robert
Pirsig reference, not Frentz' own work. That was the interesting
connection I picked-up on - an interesting (recently deceased but much
published) academic, making a Pirsig connection.
Ian
On Wed, Apr 9, 2014
Interesting person, Bud Goodall.
Ian
On Sat, Apr 5, 2014 at 6:11 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
TRICKSTER IN TWEED: THE QUEST FOR QUALITY IN A FACULTY LIFE
Trickster in Tweed is a tour de force on academic culture written with a
compelling and artful narrative style all its own
Randy Auxier at Carbondale.
Thanks John, noted.
Ian
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 5:47 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
I took it as a very positive sign when, in Feb. of 07 I was meeting with
Hilary and Ruth Anna Putnam about Hilary's forthcoming volume in the
Library of Living
Ant said,
Platonic arrogance (if you like) that everything must be defined
in some way. So out goes Dynamic Quality straight away and in comes
in all those old SOM problems (that the MOQ is designed to avoid)!
If only more MoQists understood that.
Ian
PS In my experience failure to engage
and that school should be dead.
Ian
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, Ant McWatt antmcw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
(In the context of Stephen Hawking quoting ZMM as an inspiration for his 1988
popular science text A Brief History of Time) Ant McWatt referenced the
following article, March 7th 2014
- in all churches, reason, culture, art or religion.
Ian
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 8:31 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
John,
On Tue, Mar 18, 2014 at 11:47 AM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
I took it as a very positive sign when, in Feb. of 07 I was meeting with
Hilary
Ant, a check,
Where does Hawking say ZMM influenced his writing of Brief History ?
(I can see he says he was flattered by the comparison.)
Ian
On Wed, Mar 19, 2014 at 3:00 AM, Ant McWatt antmcw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
(In the context of Stephen Hawking quoting ZMM as an inspiration for his 1988
Craig,
I read the link after all, and have to say I was underwhelmed.
I disagreed with the first para (about the inchworm playing) and it
was all downhill after that.
What was the writer's point (in your reading of it.)
Ian
On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 4:58 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote
throughout all levels of the MoQ, social and intellectual included.
Some people do know better, whether they say it, think it or know
it. What matters is how they act. Intentions matter.
I'll have to read the link now ;-)
Ian
BTW Craig, you're one of the few who took a look at my working model
of the MoQ
social niceties ;-)
Ian
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 6:15 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Ian,
Did you click on the link in my article? Pay especial attention to Putin's
words in the press conference - he made some excellent points that should
have been more heeded by the American
Not read the links yet, but a big fan of Deirdre McCloskey, so I will
be checking out. (All roads lead back to Chicago.) Thanks.
Ian
On Thu, Mar 6, 2014 at 7:01 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
[image: Lauck web.jpg] http://www.uiowapress.org/content/lauck-webjpg
The Lost Region
Dave said anti-intellectualism
Ian says straw-man
Dave also said sort of
Dennett says sorta
Ian says kinda
Ian concludes progress.
On Fri, Feb 28, 2014 at 11:51 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Arlo said to dmb:
Yes, I think Goya's thoughts align more with ZMM's synthesis of classic
have any
opinion on its wider value than this specific reference ?
Ian
On Wed, Feb 26, 2014 at 6:14 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
Hi All,
I recently got a print of Fransisco Goya's The Sleep of Reason Produces
Monsters for my office, and this morning I was asked about
constructive.
Ian
On Sat, Feb 22, 2014 at 10:21 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Dmb:
All Very well said. To your last point:
Implicitly, quietly, my point here is really to say that the MOQ cannot
rightly be interpreted as anti-intellectual or as a vacuous relativism.
Knowledge
Don't miss today's BBC2 TV Horizon documentary.
Program http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03wyr3c
Article http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-26258662
Blog http://www.psybertron.org/?s=Kahneman
Ian
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individual starling is, even though
the relative position of two starlings is a displacement in physical
(ie dead) space - no two flock formations literally recur, but their
quality, their nature does.]
Ian
On Sun, Feb 2, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hi Dave
At the risk
the problem and the nature of the improvement possible if
we can break SOMism. However their projects are necessarily
millennial. not just lifetimes, so there need to be kulturbarer
beyond the individuals - hey how about a faith-based religion - now
there's a novel idea ;-)
Ian
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014
Hi John,
Ah, that would explain nuanced - written by a committee.
Could do better.
Ian
On Tue, Jan 28, 2014 at 5:21 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Thanks Ian,
To be perfectly honest, I snagged the definition from Wiki on Philosophical
Realism
and substituted SOM for the term
that it isn't - and having
15 years of fun mis-communicating with each other on MD.
Ian
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of human history. Just life.
Now, defining life replication is a key part of it, but if you're
into splitting hairs you'll find everything comes in layers, including
the layers
Ian
On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 6:58 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
dmb says:
As I understand
Jan Anders Huh?
Obviously I know. Andre's question was about the first step, between 1 and 2
Ian
On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Jan-Anders Andersson
janander...@telia.com wrote:
Well Ian, Lila is an inquiry about morals. Please notice the last letter s.
That means that RMP was pointing
a bell with anyone?
If so, where in Lila can it be found? Many thanks,
Ian (in SF)
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:-)
Ian
On 27 Jan 2014 18:23, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
SOM is the belief that our reality, or some aspect of it, is ontologically
independent of our conceptual schemes, perceptions, linguistic practices,
beliefs, etc.
SOM may be spoken of with respect to other minds, the past
,
shouldn't damage the lower level(s) which created it. Forgive me if this has
been previously discussed.
Ian
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:-)
On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 7:39 PM, david dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
John said to Arlo Dan:
The ideal instructor is the one who is part of the class - learning with
them. ...It's not some talking head always speaking down to you like you're
an idiot.
dmb says:
Yes, it's very
only care so much, eventually someone has to wash
some pots.
Ian
On Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 11:06 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Ian,
You recently complained about the amount of garbage in your inbox when you
subscribed to lilasquad. So I thought I'd cross-post my response over
. What I can't accept is this agenda
subsuming the whole art rhetroic of zen and the art of MD, which
only flourishes without the overly objective shackles.
Half dead is not alive.
Ian
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footing)
- Careful Dave, you're killing the MoQ in the process.
Ian
On Fri, Jan 10, 2014 at 9:43 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Dan,
We agree enough is enough.
If I may focus on your final para:
The real question seems to be: is this discussion group a culture of its
own
And your point Joe ?
Ian
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 8:40 PM, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Ian,
Metaphysics, physics. Why two words? There is a point to logic.
Joe
On 1/7/14 1:31 PM, Ian Glendinning ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
When are we going to lose these pointless
So Andre advises Joe to read ZMM Lila, and Joe tells me Pirsig's
metaphysics is defined by words defined by logic.
Roll-eyes
Ian
On 9 Jan 2014 19:57, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Ian and All,
In DQ/SQ metaphysics words express reality through logic, logos-logic. DQ
Hi John,
Yes. Or to bastardise a Pirsig phrase:
Do we need anyone to define these things for us ?
Ian
On Wed, Jan 8, 2014 at 5:42 AM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
I had a thought the other day Ian about this subject. Help me to see if it
fits.
Terms like intellect and free
JC, you said ...
yup. And you make a good case for excluding people who purposely clog the
airwaves with B.S,
Ouch!
Ian
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I trusted you didn't JC - it's the other idiots reading it I worry about :-)
Ian
On 7 Jan 2014 17:29, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Oh lordy, I hope you didn't think I meant YOU, Ian.
On Tue, Jan 7, 2014 at 12:33 AM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
JC, you said
for as long as your
academic career requires it.
Ian
On 7 Jan 2014 20:10, Joseph Maurer jh...@comcast.net wrote:
Hi Andre and All,
DQ/SQ, indefinable/definable! A structure which supports indefinable
reality must include aspects of reality which are indefinable like
free-will
which remains
to
argue their own points on their own terms - as if antagonism was the
point of the exercise.Twas ever thus.
I've concluded editorially managed channels are the only hope for
constructive progress, and there are plenty of those around.
Ian
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 7:32 PM, John Carl ridgecoy
aggressive - spam when he was on here, and seems he's the same over
there.)
(Joined your love-fest over there for a day.)
Ian
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 8:57 PM, John Carl ridgecoy...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi Ian,
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 12:13 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.comwrote:
John, when
And last one for today JC.
Did I say a day ? Unsubscribed from LS GG after under 1 hour.
Already 20 or 30 (automated) spam mails from Tim Rapsncows - need to
recognise spam when you see it.
Ian
PS - You have my email if you need to communicate.
On Mon, Jan 6, 2014 at 9:10 PM, Ian Glendinning
://www.psybertron.org/?p=4923 (Human brain-mind functioning)
Ian
(All scare quotes intended.)
On Fri, Jan 3, 2014 at 12:11 PM, Richard Skillen
skillen.rich...@yahoo.co.uk wrote:
I would postulate, that the non-physical difference between man and woman is
a difference in value, to meet
he has to say.
or skim my opinionated thoughts here:
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=6539
http://www.psybertron.org/?p=6547
Ian
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He he.
It's days like this I'm glad I'm still subscribed to MD.
Thanks Marsha Dan.
Ian
On Thu, Dec 19, 2013 at 10:14 AM, Dan Glover daneglo...@gmail.com wrote:
Tear those books up, Marsha. Make 'em sad they were ever printed.
Me, I ordered three dozen copies of my various books and gave them
it all too
boring - not earth-shatteringly anti-establishment enough - so
positive public media comment dropped off very quickly after the final
lecture.
I must listen again.
Ian
On Sat, Nov 30, 2013 at 7:13 PM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Greetings,
I just finished the fourth and final
is enlightened, by the wisdom of
experience, even (especially) when it's not shockingly original (part
of his point of course).
Ian
On Tue, Dec 3, 2013 at 10:04 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Hi Ian,
I had no expectations, so just enjoyed Perry talking about art. While he was
quite
Excellent, hadn't spotted that.
(Shared McGilchrist's book and animated lecture here before, but not
seen this interview / paper.)
Ian
On Tue, Oct 22, 2013 at 4:50 PM, David Morey david...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Hi All
Does SQ and DQ divide our brain?
http://www.thersa.org/__data/assets
in language, a
functional pattern worth giving a name to, not fundamental reality
itself.
The words exist and entity are the figures of speech.
Good to see the fundamental process dynamic of such (static) patterns
coming to the fore.
Ian
On Fri, Oct 18, 2013 at 5:01 PM, david buchanan dmbucha
by the original idea.
I often think that is the problem with the discourse on MD, it's all
social patterns intent on killing intellectual ideas, including
MoQism, unlike MoQism itself.
Ian
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:19 PM, David Thomas
combinedeffo...@earthlink.net wrote:
All,
For quite some time many
Yes, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that we may finally be
seeing the death throws of DMB's anti-personnel-rhetoric - with luck,
as you say.
Ian
On Mon, Oct 21, 2013 at 6:16 PM, David Morey david...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Hi all
I'd just like to warn anyone who can think
We know.
Talk about missing the point.
Ian
On 21 Oct 2013 20:49, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Dave Thomas said:
...The D.T. Suzuki mentioned negatively on this website published Zen and
Japanese Culture in 1938 which was is based on lectures given in America
and England
Arlo,
Problems with the MoQ?
Nah, keep up.
Problems with dmb dogma dominated MD more like. Not alternatives to more
complementary views of, views that fill in gaps for the open minded.
Ian
On 21 Oct 2013 21:45, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[DM]
If anyone wants to follow
Hi folks,
I hope you guys are listening to Grayson Perry ?
http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b03969vt/live
Ian
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Wow, Joe,
I'm moved to say absolutely. I agree.
See my most recent blog post today - but in essence, the objective logic of
science cannot cope with the reality of DQ - truly radical empiricism is
before objectification and hence beyond scientific logic.
Ian.
On 7 Oct 2013 20:49, Joseph Maurer
Hi David,
That's 6 more words than you ever post on Facebook ;-)
Ian
On Thu, Sep 26, 2013 at 3:57 PM, David Morey david...@blueyonder.co.uk wrote:
Hi all
Interesting essay on experience and physicalism:
http://www.lrb.co.uk/v35/n18/galen-strawson/real-naturalism
David M
Moq_Discuss
Hi DMB,
Ian [had] replied:
Agreed. Precisely ...
dmb says:
Dude, you've announced your agreement with one bland statement and totally
ignored the rest. Why ask the question if you're just going to ignore the
answer.
Not ignoring, just proceeding carefully, progressively.
You say
to describe
intellectual quality WITHOUT getting it mixed up with SOM.
Ian says - Agreed. Precisely what I've been saying for more years than
I care to remember.
To avoid the (unnecessary) mixing up, to avoid (unnecessarily) working
the SOMism to death, let's disentangle any (low quality) narrow,
GOF
.
(Arlo has started to talk about that value in terms of coherence
continuing in a reply to Arlo)
Ian
On Sat, Aug 17, 2013 at 5:35 PM, David Harding
da...@goodmetaphysics.com wrote:
[Ian]
So this is my point - we (radically) experience different levels of
coherence consonance / dissonance
, reductionist,
essential sense, so the only reason for a definition is to
distinguish terms in the context of a current conversation. Working
- the current task in hand.
We're back on topic.
Ian
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:47 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
So Arlo, your
elaborating how this was not a big deal for me, after you'd said it
was not about definitions for you either. I'm not denying any of this,
anywhere, just summarising whilst trying to focus. I'm going to have
to start tagging my mails with [main], [meta] and [aside].)
Ian
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2
definitions beyond the working context. The main
question / topic is not changed by any of this - these simply reflect
possible avenues to approach the main topic / question. [/aside]
Ian
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 2:16 PM, Ian Glendinning
ian.glendinn...@gmail.com wrote:
Weird Arlo,
So even as I restate my
relations
between these and is a feature of SOMist intellectual expression and
argument. Pragmatically, MoQish argumentation also uses these, but it
is MORE THAN these.
Ian
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these, but it is MORE
THAN these?
With the same MORE THAN emphasised. Rather than working the definition
of SOMism to death, I'm asking what does MoQish expression and
argument have, that distinguishes it from SOMist expression and
argument.
Ian
On Mon, Aug 19, 2013 at 4:59 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR
To cut a long story short,
we continued offline
to get round the 4 posts a day rule:
Arlo - Is Pirsig's MOQ coherent?
Ian - Yes (The Metaphysics itself, emphatically, unequivocally, Yes).
Ian - However the expression of his metaphysics (in his own words and
those of the more expert readers
So Arlo, your working definition of coherence has noting to do with
being definable carry on, anyone.
Ian
(BTW my topic was / is the intellectual level - but happy to continue
on coherence for now. I'm not doing any reducing - quite the
opposite.)
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 3:31 PM, ARLO
Arlo, OK, as Marsha says, the problem we're having is that debating
the intellectual level has become taboo, and turned into an excuse to
trade personal insults. Let's try and build from the following
example:
ARLO said to Ian:
Like Marsha, you seem to think that incoherence is a necessary 'step
it from a SOMist intellectual perspective - which is
making discussion of alternatives incredibly fractious. But I'm not a
quitter. Hence this thread.
Ian
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 11:27 AM, Horse ho...@darkstar.uk.net wrote:
Hang on a second - at no point have I said that debating the Intellectual
Hi David, Thanks for addressing the actual point.
inserted
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 12:22 PM, David Harding
da...@goodmetaphysics.com wrote:
Ian,
You make a couple of claims which argue from a standpoint that ideas come
*before* quality and coherence.
[IG] I don't. Apart from
Hi Arlo, no thanks for not addressing the point ;-) but OK, inserted ...
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:12 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
The real irony is that those who defend intellectual quality do seem to
do it from a SOMist intellectual perspective...
[Arlo]
Who
Hi Horse (post 5 or so ?)
OK.
(I do disagree with your interpretation of what Marsha is trying to
achieve, but that is not the point of this thread. I started afresh so
we could discuss it.)
But, let's stick to the point (of this thread).
Ian
On Thu, Aug 15, 2013 at 2:56 PM, Horse ho
people with their own eyes and hands that
recycling is worth pursuing because it really works, but flawed to
suggest private self-sufficient processing as the answer.
Ian
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 12:00 AM, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
Greetings,
I am not in a position to respond to the efficiency
Jan Anders,
I've not watched the film (yet) - so no opinion - but who says
celebrity is higher quality than money ?
I think you'll find Pirsig shunned celebrity and bought a big
ocean-going yacht with his royalties ;-)
Ian
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 2:09 PM, Jan Anders Andersson
janander
SOMism
remains an open issue post-Bo, but it's existence as the intellect we
are talking about is not in doubt. (Plenty of previous examples of
being open a to a range of possible ways to describe that
MOQish-Intellect )
Ian
On Fri, Aug 9, 2013 at 1:46 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu
Just to be absolutely clear:
I don't say Context 2 is narrow SOM.
I say some people take a too narrow SOM view of Context 2.
As usual, we're actually agreeing.
Ian
On 8 Aug 2013 20:55, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Arlo said to Adrie:
...Mostly, I think I agree with Paul
That was hillarious. Made my week Marsha.
Ian.
On 8 Aug 2013 18:39, MarshaV val...@att.net wrote:
On Aug 8, 2013, at 12:54 PM, david buchanan wrote:
Marsha said:
Does that second premise hold?
1. Marsha posts the quote Kill all intellectual patterns.
2. Kill all intellectual
, not allowing a narrow SOMist
(Context 2) view of intellect to dominate. Hence the reason the Bo
debate keeps resurfacing.
Bo had a point, he was barred for ignoring argumentation about his point.
Ian
On Tue, Jul 30, 2013 at 5:19 PM, david buchanan dmbucha...@hotmail.com wrote:
Ian wrote:
...Yes
OK Arlo,
On Fri, Aug 2, 2013 at 4:52 PM, ARLO JAMES BENSINGER JR ajb...@psu.edu wrote:
[Ian]
I've tried and get roundly shouted down by the baying mob of Pirsig bulldogs.
[Arlo]
For someone who cries straw man with almost every post, you sure seem to
rely on them a lot.
so instead
Hi Ant,
On Sat, Aug 3, 2013 at 6:55 PM, Ant McWatt antmcw...@hotmail.co.uk wrote:
Many thanks for that Ian but DMB is essentially making a very good point
about the intellectual quality (or lack of) at this Discussion group.
[IG] Me too, or do you disagree ?
Otherwise, the title
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