Shouldn't it be the other way around? Isn't today more important than
tomorrow or last year or...?
Uhh, I've been workign too much...
-Original Message-
From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:24 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA]
clip
The real issue is that statements like:
No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly
what I'm using
for a mouse.
I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000.
gloss over the problem. The operative phrase is (Not for me at
least), and
that is a primary
OK everybody, this emoticon ;) generally means 'kidding', 'teasing',
'joshing', 'joking', 'pulling your leg', etc. It takes the seriousness OFF
the preceding text.
I think Ivan was 'pulling your leg'
However, with 240V you probably have more electrocutions!
-Original Message-
From:
Brian,
my bit to you is:
1. Use dual digital interface video card with LCD monitors. You will be able to work
longer ours. Apparently you will need that. You don't need many colours, so colour
processing speed is not an issue. You want stable image and no flicker.
2. M/B with 266MHz or
On 04:32 PM 23/07/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
I got tired of you complaining about it when you first joined the forum
(and began slagging the software and those of us with different points of
view) and showed you that
I thought an application specific keyboard would be handy for an app like
this, especially if it could be user configurable with LCD buttons!
-Original Message-
From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 11:42 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re:
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 14:28, Tony Karavidas wrote:
OK everybody, this emoticon ;) generally means 'kidding', 'teasing',
'joshing', 'joking', 'pulling your leg', etc. It takes the seriousness OFF
the preceding text.
I think Ivan was 'pulling your leg'
However, with 240V you probably have more
Hey Folks ...
One uppon a time there was a Protel Eda Users Forum that was a goof adress
for Protel related questions and answers where tip and tricks were
discussed. But This Forum gets more and more a CHAT about OS related Stuff
(Linux vs M$), sometimes a kind of a war (like the Protel bug
I think too much BS is being said about Protel's zoom process.
If you have trouble maintaining visual focus of your location after zooming in out,
instead of using PageUP PageDown, try
Shift-PageUp Shift-PageDown. The 1/10th size step really helps you maintain visual
location adjust your
I thought an application specific keyboard would be handy for an app like
this, especially if it could be user configurable with LCD buttons!
Just change your buttons around on a normal keyboard create a custom key-map.
Since it 4:00 am here, that's the best I could think of...
Why don't you think the skill is the same? Is it because Mr Lomax has been
void of input lately? Well 90% of the other 'experts' are still here I
think.
The Protel bugs thread is valid on this list AND it's on topic. Even when it
gets down to 'what is a bug' vs. 'what isn't a bug', it's still
How do you reverse those?
-Original Message-
From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:53 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Zooming in out...
I think too much BS is being said about Protel's zoom process.
If you have trouble
Jami, you need to learn the definition of a bug I guess. Bitch all you want
about Protel, I don't care. Just be accurate. You're a professional, not
some high school hack. You should be able to refer to a problem as either a
bug or a poor implementation, a lack of implementation, or something you
-Original Message-
From: Georg Beckmann [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 24 July 2002 06:33
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: [PEDA] AW: was Speaking of Protel Bugs. space and time and
...
[cut]
BTW. Metric is better, I can explain it to you and you will love it.
In
-Original Message-
From: Katinka Mills [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: 24 July 2002 08:36
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
[cut]
Besides I thought it was current that killed and ours is half
yours ;o) (I
know that a given voltage will cause a
JaMi,
aren't you mixing up some things in this discussion?
See my comments below.
I also eventually found this forum, which has been of some help. The
problem
here is that in general everybody refuses to realize or acknowledge that
this (as with many other things) is a bug, notwithstanding the
With a PCB document open:
Servers Menu (down arrow menu item next to
File)/Customize/ShortCutKeys/PCBHotKeys
Menu Button - Edit
look for PCB:Zoom , double click to edit.
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 24 July 2002 6:05 PM
To:
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 6:14 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Where is there more detail about this fix?
I tried moving both my Placement Tools and
Open a dummy PCB document.
Select the first arrow pointing down at the top left of the menu bar go into
Customize / Shortcut Keys.
Select PCBHotKeys.
Chose Menu/Edit.
Now, you should have a list of all the current PCBHotKeys.
Scroll down the list to all of the PCB:Zoom functions.
On the
Hi,
The symtoms currently exhibited on this forum is commonly known as PDRS
(Pre-DXP Release Syndrom).It effects people in different ways especially
relating to the mains voltage, current and frequency of their home
appliances.
PLEASE Protel release DXP NOW for the sanity of this and other
I think that the 120(110?)V is also taken from a transformer that has a
centre tap to earth, so that the maximum potential to earth is 60V. I hadn't
heard that it was to prevent theft. Interesting point.
This is so off topic that I am now going to make a Protel specific comment -
About 18 months
On 12:29 AM 24/07/2002 -0700, Tony Karavidas said:
I thought an application specific keyboard would be handy for an app like
this, especially if it could be user configurable with LCD buttons!
There is a company called Goldtouch that sells an expensive keyboard that
can be split in the middle
Usually when you hold that footprint in the pcb editor and
press the 'L' key, the component changes the side, with mirroring
and everything.
Rene
Steve Wiseman wrote:
Hi, all.
I've been plagued with this on my last 2 double-sided boards, and it's
making things like assembly instructions
24/07/2002 11:51:24, Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Usually when you hold that footprint in the pcb editor and
press the 'L' key, the component changes the side, with mirroring
and everything.
Yes - that's how it's supposed to work Unfortunately, I have components on
the
Are your Library parts built with the pads on the top or the bottom?
If you build a library part with pads on the bottom layer, when the
component is placed on the PBC it will record itself as being on the top
layer, even though all the pads are on the bottom.
-Original Message-
From:
24/07/2002 12:17:08, Paul Holland
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Are your Library parts built with the pads on the top or the bottom?
Good call, but no, they're on the top. I use these parts on both sides of the
boards - the ones on top are fine.
Having failed to reproduce this on a trivial board,
Steve and Paul,
it dosn´t matter how the components are build. Nevertheless one should be able
to change the layer of the Designator by doubleclicking on it or on the
component.
I guess there is something realy out of range with Steves system or PCB. I
only offer to check weather this behavior
On 12:03 PM 24/07/2002 +0100, Steve Wiseman said:
24/07/2002 11:51:24, Rene Tschaggelar [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
Usually when you hold that footprint in the pcb editor and
press the 'L' key, the component changes the side, with mirroring
and everything.
Yes - that's how it's supposed to
-Original Message-
From: Schmitt Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Hey Folks ...
One uppon a time there was a Protel Eda Users Forum that was
a goof adress
for Protel related questions and answers where tip and tricks were
discussed.
Mr Schmitt would like to offer his wisdom,
Perhaps it would be a good idea to move this forum to more of a web page
type environment, where there are a number of different topics (i.e.. protel
bugs, software add-on's, hardware, footprints, schematic questions, layout
questions, etc..) Within each topic there would be threads which you
I saw no problems on the one board 11 - everything with bottom side pads
appeared to be on the bottom. But on 12 I saw what you're talking about.
Then I generated a project library from it, and lo-and-behold about half of
the components have their pads on the bottom. There are a few components
Could you have done a global change and changed the attributes, but not the
component. I know I did this once a few years ago.
Rob
* Tracking #: F24B2F10F97C094B8B31F7E2C91D7B57891B3470
*
OK, folks, I know metric is better. I was just joking. But seriously, it
is on-topic when you consider that some electronic parts are in metric, and
some in Imperial (U.S. folks call Imperial standard, because it IS our
standard). This unit stuff can cause lots of grief because of imprecision
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
As far as the Zoom issue. It was obviously a design decision.
As such with user
interface decisions, some people will like it, and some
won't. If the majority
find the decision useable and can adapt to it in a
Daniel, Ian,
there is a further possible design corruption problem when using the
Assign Net to Connected Copper function during an update. If you have
updated a footprint to a new footprint at the same time that you are
updating with the connected copper checked. You can really screw up
I guess I'm in the minority, but I find the Protel user interface quite
powerful
and, for the most part, intuitively consistent across servers. The
labyrinthine
command interface of Autocad and PCB packages using a similar interface
(like Pads) are tedious and extremely trying.
Protel is missing
There's also a certain resistance to metric in the UK. The move to metric
on PCBs here isn't made any easier by the Protel autorouter making a mess of
routing to pads not on a 1mil grid (he says, steering the message back
on-topic :-). Hopefully the DXP router will cope with this, as well as
Protel is missing a bet by not offering a stand-alone full-featured
Mechanical
CAD package based on the 99SE interface. But *Please*, Protel, be sure to
maintain full two-way file conversion with all ACAD File Formats ever
released!
Good idea, but not easy - Autodesk loves to change the
Cool! Thanks.
I noticed the Action = MicroOut has an apparent log taper (like a log pot
vs a linear pot). It seems to have coarse zoom when I'm zoomed out and much
finer change when I'm zoomed in. Do you notice that too?
Tony
-Original Message-
From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL
24/07/2002 16:52:20, Watnoski, Michael [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
I have a similar problem where the parts were moved to the bottom
layer after selecting the group and pressing L. The parts were on the
bottom but not mirrored.
Hmm - all these ways of changing layer :) All I ever do / did was hit
I want to export a schematic to a database so that I can try some hot
linking. The protel handbook (pg. 163) says: Select File Export to
Database to pop up the Export Database dialog.
But when I select File Export all I get is AutoCAD DWG/DXF and PCAD 2000
ASCII.
Am I missing something? Am I
When you're done editing stuff in the spreadsheet, check the File/Update
menu item.
Whoops I just tried that (edited two parts and tried update) and it said
Sorry, board was not updated correctly
Damn it!
-Original Message-
From: Steve Wiseman [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent:
However, I checked my edits and they did stick, so I don't know yet what
it's complaining about.
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 10:10 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: RE: [PEDA] Bottom components with 'top'
It should be right between those two! Wow I wonder if resource file for your
menus has been modified???
You could always put it back I suppose.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 9:45 AM
To: Protel EDA Form
Subject:
If you know how to edit the menus, here is the info for that missing
selection:
Text: Export to Database
Process: ExportSchematicToDatabase
Params:
(I left params blank)
Stick that in your File/Export menu and it should look normal.
-Original Message-
From: Tim Fifield
On Wed, 24 Jul 2002 08:40:27 -0700, Brian Sherer wrote:
Protel is missing a bet by not offering a stand-alone full-featured
Mechanical CAD package based on the 99SE interface. But *Please*,
Protel, be sure to maintain full two-way file conversion with all ACAD
File Formats ever released!
Good
24/07/2002 18:11:48, Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
However, I checked my edits and they did stick, so I don't know yet what
it's complaining about.
I get an error box saying -
No other document is associated with this spreadsheet. Do not close and
reopen a spreadsheet before
I just checked 3 other computers in the office with Protel on them and they
are all the same as mine!
I'm going to try to add the process.
Tim
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 2:17 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re:
Ok, that seemed to work. Have not tried actually exporting anything though.
Is there anything else in the export that I'm missing? Could you please tell
me what text/parameters you have in the import? Again, I only see the
AutoCAD and PCAD stuff.
Is there an easy way to check the other menus
I did not know about the ability to included unconnected copper. Thanks,
that may prove quite useful. As far as the problem of shorts, I have come up
with my own solution to this. I place matching netlabels on either ends of
the microstrip symbol, so that I maintain a netlist connection. I do
Except for the p-w in schematic p-t for PCB, I always cross these 2, I have to agree
with the other Brian.
Brian Guralnick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original Message -
From: Brian Sherer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL
Cool! Thanks.
I noticed the Action = MicroOut has an apparent log taper (like a log pot
vs a linear pot). It seems to have coarse zoom when I'm zoomed out and much
finer change when I'm zoomed in. Do you notice that too?
Tony
My only wish is to make the MicroIn MicroOut LINEAR. If any
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
snip
The real issue is that statements like:
No it's not unstable. (Not for me at least) That is exactly
what I'm using
for a mouse.
I'm using whatever driver that came with Win2000.
gloss over the problem. The
I'm tired of talking to you about this. I understand it's a problem for you
and it's terrible that's it causing you so much grief. But as easily as you
say IT IS PROTEL'S FAULT AND IT IS THEIR RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX THE BUG
why can't you seem to grasp your own words when you tell us changing
It sounds like there was a problem with the Intellimouse driver - I had similar
problems with a similarly configured system of around the same vintage.
I however updated the drivers (as well as taking Protel out of the list of application
for the scroll wheel), and have had a very stable
Here is my take on the situation:
If, every mouse video card combination I have used to date auto-scrolls
manipulates any other software's windows fine
without bugs clunking, WHY should there be a special case for Protel where bugs
should be acceptable when you happen to own not
the
Just guessing, but maybe this mouse morass is Delphi's fault? It may be
true that 99% of other apps don't have this problem, but maybe the 1% that
do are written in Delphi? Sometimes app bugs turn out to be built-in bugs
of the app development system.
Coming to an EDA list near you: Mouse
Don't you think this sentence could be true: IT IS MICROSOFT'S MOUSE DRIVER
FAULT AND IT IS THEIR(MS) RESPONSIBILITY TO FIX THE BUG
And Microsoft did fix the bug in the Intellimouse drivers before JaMi got his
machine from Dell! The fix drive just did not ship with the Dell machines.
Just guessing, but maybe this mouse morass is Delphi's fault? It may be
true that 99% of other apps don't have this problem, but maybe the 1% that
do are written in Delphi? Sometimes app bugs turn out to be built-in bugs
of the app development system.
Coming to an EDA list near you:
Look, can someone just give me the source for the PCB software, I'll properly fix
the stupid mouse issue. For any video card, or
mouse driver combination.
I'll also fix the dumb scroll borders so the pan will start slowly you approach the
edge of the window, instead of when you go off
the
Well, I tried this patch, I even had both your patch bars AND the Placement Tools and
PCBtoolbar boxes into the active PCB area, and tried various placement combinations.
ALL resulted on little to NO difference. Mouse still locks up for several seconds, or
until primitives start to be
In fact, upon special request, I'll make a mod where if you plug in a secondary
track ball, you can use the track ball to pan
the board display while using the mouse to continue routing.
Brian Guralnick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original
a good one...
-Original Message-
From: Schmitt Michael [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 24 July 2002 5:45 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum (E-Mail)
Subject: [PEDA] To Forum Admin : Things getting too much OFF Topic here
Hey Folks ...
One uppon a time there was a Protel Eda Users
Odd, which video card are you using?
Brian Guralnick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 6:18 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA]
I must have missed the thread on the new Matrox Para card. Did look
at it briefly, after I upgraded to my current system (dual 2ghz athalon,
matrox g550 1g ddr) Works great so far, but I have only briefly perused
old designs in Protel right now I am heavy into the embedded Linux and FPGA
Brian Guralnick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 6:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Look, can
It seems to be an on-motherboard 32MB NVIDIA GeForce2 MX with TV Out (Dell). I am
running it at 1600x1200x32x85Hz, and it looks beautiful on this Dell P991 19 inch
Trinitron. System: Dell Dimension 4300, P4 1.6GHz, 384MB PC133 SDRAM. Stays up for
weeks running Office2K (Outlook, Word, XL),
They are safe. It's just that it is still possible to recreate the temporary
mouse lockup when panning over a blank area of a
PCB, or off the edge. The NVIDIA card seem least vulnerable, though, I will not say
that it's impossible.
Again, I'm investing a lot in a new Protel / PC
It goes both ways. PTC (PRO/Engineer) are about to release a PCB design package.
Igor
-Original Message-
From: Brian Sherer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Thursday, 25 July 2002 1:40 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: [PEDA] Kudos
I guess I'm in the minority, but I find the Protel
My patch was for older ATI Matrox PCI cards where the mouse would get so stuck,
that you would be waiting a good 30 seconds or
more before it would unglue.
This would all change if I were to fix the problem at it's source within the PCB
source code. Probably nothing more than adding
Maybe the acrobat 5 problem is Protel's problem too. HA HA HA (I'm JUST
KIDDING!!)
-Original Message-
From: Bruce Walter [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 4:09 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Auto-Pan patch was Speaking of Protel Bugs.
It
BTW, I recently saw LinuxCAD's website. It seems they offer
an AutoCAD
replacement for $99. And they offer versions that run on
Windows, for those
who don't use Linux yet. I don't know how good their product
is, I just saw
the website.
The mail I get on LinuxCAD is to steer
On 09:03 AM 25/07/2002 +1000, Igor Gmitrovic said:
It goes both ways. PTC (PRO/Engineer) are about to release a PCB design
package.
Igor
I couldn't find any reference to a PCB pkg on the PTC www site. In past
news stories they have said they are not going into that market. They are
setting
Only a vague statement from their rep. We are looking into exchanging design info
between Protel and Pro/E and he said they will release some kind of PCB package,
without any details. I think he said it would be their own SW, there was no mention of
third party involved.
Igor
-Original
i was going to argue with you until
i went and tried it!
jeez even place line (not track) with no connectivity or anything
much on the board chews up 100% CPU continually !!
you don't even have to be drawing or holding the mouse button
it doesn't seem to effect typing this though, i left
Igor,
this sounds like possibly the rep is just talking about a
Protel/ProE mechanical interface utility like they have for PADS, CADENCE,
MENTOR, etc., etc.. I think that you and the rep are talking to each other
but each has their own concept in their mind for two different things.
No, Protel is using 100% of your CPU. It's just set itself down to a minimal
priority. So, everything else still seem to run
good. Whenever there are free CPU cycles, even if Protel here is doing nothing, it
eats up all of your remaining CPU time. This is
part of the auto pan mouse
On 05:42 PM 24/07/2002 -0700, Dennis Saputelli said:
i was going to argue with you until
i went and tried it!
jeez even place line (not track) with no connectivity or anything
much on the board chews up 100% CPU continually !!
you don't even have to be drawing or holding the mouse button
Brad,
that was just an aside bit of info, not directly related to our initial topic of
design info exchange. I guess he was trying to attract our interest into their new
offering, trying to get more sales. It was a promo for new product.
Igor
-Original Message-
From: Brad Velander
Tony -
BECAUSE A NEW INSTALLATION OF PROTEL WILL NOT WORK WITH A NEW
INTERNATIONALLY ACCEPTED STANDARDIZED COMPUTER SYSTEM, RUNNING AN
INTERNATIONAL ACCEPTED STANDARDIZED OPERATING SYSTEM, AS DELIVERED FROM AN
INTERNATIONALLY RECOGNIZED COMPUTER MANUFACTURER!
THAT'S WHY!
BECAUSE EVERY OTHER
-- snipp --
In any case, we now see why changing the layer of a refdes is a VERY BAD
idea, at least with the current software!
Steve Hendrix
Steve,
you talked about this behavior during this thread. I searched the Buglist but
have not found anything about Problems with refdes
- Original Message -
From: Bruce Walter [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 1:49 PM
Subject: [PEDA] IntelliMouse Drivers, Was: Speaking of Protel Bugs.
It sounds like there was a problem with the Intellimouse driver - I had
similar
Thank you Brian
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 2:17 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Speaking of Protel Bugs.
Here is my take on the situation:
If, every mouse video card combination
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