Re: [PEDA] paste array
Hi Mike, If you are refering to within a schematic, a simlar function can be found in EDIT PASTE SPECIAL (!) It is a little more limited than the PCB function, but it does allow arrays of net labels to be pasted, with definable spacing and text increments. Regards Paul -Original Message- From: Mike Ingle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 October 2002 22:16 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] paste array Within the PCB editor, I have found that paste-special, component class selected, paste array results in correctly producing an array of component footprints with proper designators. Is it possible to lay-out one channel, and paste an array and have the net labels be handled in an acceptable manner? Mike * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Exporting Protel 99SE Library files
JaMi, Believe me or not, but ignoring others trying to solve their problems with import/export/conversion is the last thing that could come to my mind. Actually, dealing with such problems has been a big part of my work since the beginning of this year when we, finally, moved from our old EDA environment (OrCAD SDT + CADSTAR) to Protel. And the person dealing with all transfer and customization issues has been me. So I am totally aware that there are different EDA packages and there are many different problems (possibly much bigger than those I coped with) with transferring projects/libraries from one EDA software to another. I am aware that there are of course many different methods of solving such problems. And I always say that any possible method that leads to the target is good. Sometimes it happens that there are two or more possibilities leading to more or less the same result. And that was what I read from your post - the suggestion to go the short way from PCB/SCH ASCII directly to library. I assumed PCB/SCH ASCII in one of Protel formats. Please, correct me if I'm wrong. Having this, I tried to do what I usually do as an engineer - estimate whether one method is/could be more effective than another. This what I posted in reply to your question was a result of my thinking aloud. As the conclusion presented my personal opinion based on my personal experience and limited knowledge I asked what for? Not to depreciate your suggestion. It was pure curiosity, nothing else. I could ask it another way: Is there anything more that would make my knowledge about this less limited and could change my opinion? Or: Is there anything more that could justify spending more time on this particular suggested method? What for? applied to this particular suggested method, not the whole world of import/export/transfer problems. I may assure you that there was nothing else but curiosity standing behind my question. And I may assure you that I am the last person to question the need to develop methods (and share knowledge about them) of solving import/export/transfer problems. I am always willing to learn something new. Wojciech Oborski * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] paste array
Oops, read your mail again with brain more engaged this time! I'm not totally sure what you mean, but if you trace from one component, select and copy that trace, then paste array so the tracks land on the previously pasted components, the tracks take the net of the relevant component. The 'Text Increment' variable doesn't seem to have any effect in this case. You may get problems however if any of the tracks touch another pad/ track when pasted, and the track may take on a different net! Hope this is what you wanted to know :) Paul -Original Message- From: Mike Ingle [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 08 October 2002 22:16 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] paste array Within the PCB editor, I have found that paste-special, component class selected, paste array results in correctly producing an array of component footprints with proper designators. Is it possible to lay-out one channel, and paste an array and have the net labels be handled in an acceptable manner? Mike * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] OT - Complex boards and time to Layout?
Ian Brad, Ya got my vote on this one 100%. Both well said. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:33 AM Subject: Re: [PEDA] OT - Complex boards and time to Layout? On 08:26 PM 8/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: I refer you to their capability page: http://www.lintek.com.au/boa.htm Note the text (Tolerance on track widths is +- 0.008mm or better depending on the design and uniformity of copper distribution.) Please note that they state uniformity of copper distribution, which in most instances means the uniformity of copper thickness across the surface of the board, which is at least as big a problem as the one that we are discussing. Rubbish - it means they can ensure better fine line quality and control when there is an even density of copper over the board. Nothing to do with thickness. I know these people well. They do not make idle and confusing statements. In the PCB manufacturing industry everyone knows what is meant by density and distribution. You seem to be having some issues here with this, as well as having a tendency to wish be Last-Word-JaMi. Over an out on this from me. We should all have taken it to the OT list ages ago. Getting silly now. Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] PCB layout websites
Hi, I'm trying to find as many websites as possible that detail how to go about laying out a PCB, from component placement to track routing. I can't seem to find any info on this kind of stuff, there's heaps on signal integrity which is a part of it I guess, however I'm looking more for hints on how to route/place complex parts, ie where data buses don't line up correctly etc, or worse still, then they are completely reversed... I'm sure that people know what I'm talking about, and have their own ways of dealing with it, I'm just looking for a site that would have some hints and tips. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] R: PCB layout websites
The best one http://www.pcbstandards.com Bolis Bortolo BB PCB Design Via Gasparoli, 53 21012 Cassano Magnago ( VA ) - Italy Tel. +39 0331 281457 Fax +39 0331 282794 Email [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Messaggio originale- Da: Bevan Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Inviato: mercoledì 9 ottobre 2002 14.57 A: Protel EDA Forum Oggetto: [PEDA] PCB layout websites Hi, I'm trying to find as many websites as possible that detail how to go about laying out a PCB, from component placement to track routing. I can't seem to find any info on this kind of stuff, there's heaps on signal integrity which is a part of it I guess, however I'm looking more for hints on how to route/place complex parts, ie where data buses don't line up correctly etc, or worse still, then they are completely reversed... I'm sure that people know what I'm talking about, and have their own ways of dealing with it, I'm just looking for a site that would have some hints and tips. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] PCB layout websites
Bevin, You may want to get involved with a Chapter of the IPC Designers Council. There is much info about it and some industry links also at www.ipc.org This would be at least a good place to start and it should point you to many other options. There are also many training sessions offered. Bob Wolfe - Original Message - From: Bevan Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 8:56 AM Subject: [PEDA] PCB layout websites Hi, I'm trying to find as many websites as possible that detail how to go about laying out a PCB, from component placement to track routing. I can't seem to find any info on this kind of stuff, there's heaps on signal integrity which is a part of it I guess, however I'm looking more for hints on how to route/place complex parts, ie where data buses don't line up correctly etc, or worse still, then they are completely reversed... I'm sure that people know what I'm talking about, and have their own ways of dealing with it, I'm just looking for a site that would have some hints and tips. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Merging pcbs
Hi to you all, I have two multilayer pcbs designed with Protel 99. I was wondering is there was an easy way to merge them without having to reroute the designs. I have about 19 nets that will electrically connect the two boards toghether. Thanks for your help. Carlos A. Claveria Spartek Systems Web: http://www.sparteksystems.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] flipping board
Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Not sure if this will help. Select the board then go to edit, move, rotate selection, type in the degree of rotation. I would do this on a copy of the board just in case. -Original Message- From: Jun Gong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel Developers Forum; Open Topic Forum Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Jun, it is not 100% clear if you intend to rotate the board or to flip it. Rotating the board is fine within Protel but flipping the board (i.e. top becomes bottom, bottom become top, left - right orientation is the same as rotating) is not supported by Protel. To rotate the board, turn on all layers, 'S'elect 'A'll, 'M'ove 'S'election, click on a reference location, hit spacebar to rotate the board, click at a reference location to place the PCB where desired. Sincerely, Brad Velander. Lead PCB Designer Norsat International Inc. Microwave Products Tel (604) 292-9089 (direct line) Fax (604) 292-9010 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.norsat.com Norsat's Microwave Products Division has now achieved ISO 9001:2000 certification -Original Message- From: Jun Gong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel Developers Forum; Open Topic Forum Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and f ootprint library
Anand, sorry about miss spelling your name. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:33 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and f ootprint library Anandy, Have you checked that you turned on the midlayers in question? I ran into this problem when I started using extra layers in my libraries, and that was the solution. Regards, Ted -Original Message- From: Anand Kulkarni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:57 PM To: PROTEL USER Group Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
I wish to flip the board: ( Top compoents go to bottom, and bottom components come up to top, the wires should be flipped and linked to the original positions, wire layers should be also changed as well.) I have spent more than a hour on it, but still have no circuitous way to do it. It seems an impossible task in Protel. So I have to re-route the thousands wires. Does any body know other software can do it? Maybe I could do a export-flip-import game. Thanks. Jun -Original Message- From: John M. Cardone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 2002?10?9? 16:18 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Jun, Generally all that you can do in Protel are the flipping and turning you can do with a completed pwb with your hands. If you wish to move left to right and right to left, while keeping the components on the top side, you'll need to re-route. John Jun Gong wrote: Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun -- John M. Cardone Electro-Mechanical Dsgn. Engr. Grp. M/S 278-100 Mechanical Engineering Section, 352 4800 Oak Grove Dr.NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, Ca 91109MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 818.354.5407 Fax: 818.393.6400 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprintlibrary
Anand, You should not need to define any layers in the footprint file. John Anand Kulkarni wrote: Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com -- John M. Cardone Electro-Mechanical Dsgn. Engr. Grp. M/S 278-100 Mechanical Engineering Section, 352 4800 Oak Grove Dr.NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, Ca 91109MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 818.354.5407 Fax: 818.393.6400 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
Anand Try turnig on Mid Layers 3 and 4 on the board, and I think you will find your other two missing layers of your component. You may actually have to create them in the Layer Stack Manager before you can enable them (turn them on). I think that the problem may have something to do with the placement mechanism simply assigning the sequential layers in the component to what it preceives to be the sequential layers of the design, irrespective of the actual layer names, and even irrespective of those layers even being enabled (or present) in the design. I know that many of the standard boards that are used to make a copy of a standard board when you use the PCB Wizzard, have these bizzare layer numbers in them (like Mid Layer 29, and 30), and I have found it very benificial to get rid of them in my designs by going into the Layer Stack Manager before I ever do anything else and just dumpong the bogus layers (29 and 30)and creating sequential layers (3 and 4), so that all of my internal layers (or planes too) are numbered sequentially. If you already have data on those layers (29 and 30), then maybe you can create new sequential layers (3 and 4), and copy everything from 29 to 3 and 30 to 4, and then clear everything from the old 29 and 30 and then delete them. It might even be easier to create a new board in a new database, and copy everything over from one layer in one database to the new layer in the new database. Of course, another option would be if the component layers actually do show up on Mid Layer 3 and 4, just copy yhem to where you want them, but remember that you will have to do that everytime that you do an component update. Make sure that whatever you do, you experiment with a copy of your database, since I may be totally out to lunch on this one, although I have encountered forms of this behaviour, and I think that this may be what is happening. Hopefully this will help or at least point you in the right direction. JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: Anand Kulkarni [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: PROTEL USER Group [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:56 PM Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] PADS conversion
Hello all I have two very old PADS files dating back to 1996 not even sure what PADS versions these are in , either Perform or Works. I only have PADS from 2.0 up which will not read these PADS job files. I need to get the ASCII conversion for these files so that I can then read them into 99Se, any help out there to convert these to ASCII? Mike Reagan Cornet Technology Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Jun, I am not quite sure what you are asking here, but I think you want to take the components and circuitry on the top and flip it on the bottom, and that what was on the bottom then becomes flipped to the top. Try this with a copy of your database, so that you do not loose anything if it does not work. Make sure you have a large area to the right or above you original board to work with. It will be much easier to do this if you set your grid to .100 and make a reference point at the lower left of the original board, and another one at the lower right of the new board location.on this grid. Turn off all layers except the top layer. Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. Position your new array to the right or above the original board, at your new reference point, and then place it with a mouse click. Use E E A (or X A ) to deselect everything. You should now have a mirror image if your top layer on the bottom layer in a new location. You will also have a bunch of rats nest connections going between the two boards since you have duplicated all of the components and all of the traces. Inspect everything to make sure this is what you want, and if so, then continue. Turn off everything except the bottom layer. Select everything on the bottom layer of your original board, and do an E C and select your reference point for your original board. Turn the top layer back on, and make it the current layer. Go thru the E A (Paste Special) Dialogue again, flip it by hitting x, click Yes, and place your new top layer where it belongs with respect to your new bottom layer. You will have to go thru this same scenario for other signal layers of the board, but should not have to worry about flipping plane layers unless you have split planes, in which case you will have to flip them also, although you do have to copy any boundries on your planes,into your new board (although it may be easier just to fix the planes in the Layer Stack Manager after you are done with everything else). Once you have copied or transferred everything to your new flipped board, make sure all of your layers are turned on, and that you have copied everything that you need to copy into your new mirrior image board, and if everything looks OK, then it is time do delete the original. Simply select everything in the original board, and delete it. You may now want to move your new board into the place formerly occupied with the old one. Needless to say, you will have to juggle your mechanical layers to your new configuration, and possibly other things such as the board outline and keepout layers, etc., etc., but other than that I think that you will have what you are looking for. Hope this works for you, JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: Jun Gong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Protel Developers Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Open Topic Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Fan out vias from surface mount component pads
Hi, all, Does anybody know a good way to fan out SMD pins? How many Protel users use Protel Auto Router fan out pass? I have been doing it manually. It is just too much work. I tried Auto Route/setup/setting, selected Fan out used SMD pins only, Then Route all...but it did not work. Nothing happen. Design rules were set for 13/30 for via, 7mil trace w/ 6 mil clearance, and top and bottom layers only. Why doesn't it work? Am I missing something? I am using Protel 99SE. Thank you for any reply... Shuping Lew Quintron Systems, Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 04:49 PM 9/10/2002 -0400, Jun Gong said: I wish to flip the board: ( Top compoents go to bottom, and bottom components come up to top, the wires should be flipped and linked to the original positions, wire layers should be also changed as well.) I have spent more than a hour on it, but still have no circuitous way to do it. It seems an impossible task in Protel. So I have to re-route the thousands wires. Does any body know other software can do it? Maybe I could do a export-flip-import game. Thanks. Jun No, P99SE does *not* support this kind of flip. Using the 'L' key while you are doing a Move-Selection (with everything selected) does *not* work. You may have found out already what sort of mess you end up with. Components are flipped in place becoming divorced from their tracks etc. Geoff Harland and myself started writing an add-on server to do an inversion (as we decided to call it) on a PCB. For a number of reasons, not the least being issues with the undo stack, a bug when moving large selections and other issues (such as our inability to figure out how to programmatically extract and set some layer pair info) - as well as lack of time. This software was released as a limited beta at one stage (time limited) with a number of significant limitations. It did however invert the major object types including tracks, components, pads, vias, arcs, fills, polygons - it did not invert rules and some other stuff as well. It allowed flipping over a defined line that could be vertical, horizontal, 45 rising, 45 falling and even an arbitrary angle (interesting effects and why would you want it?). It may be possible to extract the old source and see where we got to and maybe do a release as is. But when we asked for assistance in testing this server a long time ago we got very little (if any) feedback. So despite it being a hot topic of discussion at the time it seems it was actually of little importance to users. I just tested using the 'L' key in DXP - it works heaps better. I have only given a brief go but it is looking much better than P99SE. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Merging pcbs
On 10:41 AM 9/10/2002 -0600, Carlos Claveria said: Hi to you all, I have two multilayer pcbs designed with Protel 99. I was wondering is there was an easy way to merge them without having to reroute the designs. I have about 19 nets that will electrically connect the two boards toghether. Thanks for your help. Carlos A. Claveria Spartek Systems Web: http://www.sparteksystems.com With great care. 1) Make sure layer stack-up is the same on each (number, order and net assignment of planes). 2) Rename nets you do not wish to connect that may be the same in each design. 3) Review all rules to make sure there is nothing conflicting - like different plane connect styles or clearances etc. Be careful with this one and have thinking cap firmly on. 4) Copy one design with a Save-As to get all the design rules across (copy and paste does not take design rules). 5) Copy and paste the other design. 6) Add in any design rules needed from the second design that were not in the first. 7) Check and check and check preferably with a full schematic of the merged design. 8) Have board made 9) Convert to your favorite religion (if necessary) and pray. 10) build boards and give pre-prepared excuses to boss why it didn't work With hard work 9 and 10 may not be required. Have plenty of backups as well and save often to backups as you work through each step to allow you to restart from some intermediate step. I have done it, successfully, on a complex design set which required a deal of mucking about with rules. (The text export of the rules is useful in this review) On very similar designs with the same rules the merge should not be too hard at all but do check those rules and layer stackup carefully. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 03:23 PM 9/10/2002 -0400, Jun Gong said: Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? Jun, see the other replies for some answers. Just a small point, I notice that you have cross-posted to a number of other forums (including the inactive developers forum PDEV). This is normally considered slightly rude. This forum (PEDA) is the best place for your P99SE questions like the one you are asking. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 02:39 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. JaMi, I assume you did not test this. Issue 1) with paste on current layer turned off the entities will be pasted onto their current layers. Issue 2) assuming you meant that paste on current layer a should be checked, this is a great way of getting the components mixed up. Their graphics end up on the top layers abut the component is stated to be on the bottom layer. As well the component is upside down. It would be OK if you get the graphics to the bottom layer as well. I would warn anybody against using the stated method without doing their own testing. My testing showed it failed - as was my expectation. I repeat - P99SE does not allow a board to be flipped as delivered - an add-on server is required (not available to my knowledge apart from Geoff and mine ex-attempt). DXP does better. (My main reason for commenting on this process is not to have a go at anybody but since there is an archive of this forum we do have to make sure we correct and update incorrect or untested techniques.) Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Yea Jami and how do you propose to get pin 1 not reversed then populating all of the components on the board all backwards? We call that smoke then fire. Mike - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Jun, I am not quite sure what you are asking here, but I think you want to take the components and circuitry on the top and flip it on the bottom, and that what was on the bottom then becomes flipped to the top. Try this with a copy of your database, so that you do not loose anything if it does not work. Make sure you have a large area to the right or above you original board to work with. It will be much easier to do this if you set your grid to .100 and make a reference point at the lower left of the original board, and another one at the lower right of the new board location.on this grid. Turn off all layers except the top layer. Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. Position your new array to the right or above the original board, at your new reference point, and then place it with a mouse click. Use E E A (or X A ) to deselect everything. You should now have a mirror image if your top layer on the bottom layer in a new location. You will also have a bunch of rats nest connections going between the two boards since you have duplicated all of the components and all of the traces. Inspect everything to make sure this is what you want, and if so, then continue. Turn off everything except the bottom layer. Select everything on the bottom layer of your original board, and do an E C and select your reference point for your original board. Turn the top layer back on, and make it the current layer. Go thru the E A (Paste Special) Dialogue again, flip it by hitting x, click Yes, and place your new top layer where it belongs with respect to your new bottom layer. You will have to go thru this same scenario for other signal layers of the board, but should not have to worry about flipping plane layers unless you have split planes, in which case you will have to flip them also, although you do have to copy any boundries on your planes,into your new board (although it may be easier just to fix the planes in the Layer Stack Manager after you are done with everything else). Once you have copied or transferred everything to your new flipped board, make sure all of your layers are turned on, and that you have copied everything that you need to copy into your new mirrior image board, and if everything looks OK, then it is time do delete the original. Simply select everything in the original board, and delete it. You may now want to move your new board into the place formerly occupied with the old one. Needless to say, you will have to juggle your mechanical layers to your new configuration, and possibly other things such as the board outline and keepout layers, etc., etc., but other than that I think that you will have what you are looking for. Hope this works for you, JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: Jun Gong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Protel Developers Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Open Topic Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Jun, Flipping a PCB in Protel 99SE can't not be done with a single push of a button, But it's not that hard to do. It's really only a 4 or 5 step process and should take no more that 15 minutes to perform. You will need to do this in steps, but its much like converting Gerber files into real PCBs. If you first select all of your components, via global edit, then copy these off to the clipboard. To do this, pick a good reference point when you do the EDIT/COPY. You should then be able to paste these components down outside of the current design, let's say to The right side of your current PCB. But instead of using a standard paste, use Paste Special under the edit menu.- in this dialog, select Duplicate Designators only and disable all of the other options. Now perform the PASTE option at the bottom of the dialog and while you have the new selection attached to your cursor, (all of the components attached to your cursor), hit the x key to first mirror all of the components in the selection, now before you put them down, hit the L key to flip all components in the selection to the bottom layer. Now a similar process can be done with the tracks on the top layer. Globally select the tracks on the top layer, and perform a Copy and Paste Special - selecting both options, ON CURRENT LAYER option, and the KEEP NET NAME option, but make sure that you are active on the bottom layer first when you do this. Now while the tracks (in the large selection window) are attached to our cursor, simply hit the X key to mirror the tracks, and now paste them down on the same reference point that you used to copy and paste the components. Repeat this step for the bottom layer tracks from the original PCB and your done. The final step will be to delete the original PCB, but that's the simple part. Hope this helps. Just to let you know, I just did this exact procedure on an existing design in Protel 99SE. So I know it can be done this easy. Best Regards, == Richard Rick J. Wilson - Owner PROTTA Professional Technical Training Associates (916) 941-1185 - Office/Fax (916) 955-0083 - Mobile visit our web site at www.protta.com == -Original Message- From: Jun Gong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 1:49 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board I wish to flip the board: ( Top compoents go to bottom, and bottom components come up to top, the wires should be flipped and linked to the original positions, wire layers should be also changed as well.) I have spent more than a hour on it, but still have no circuitous way to do it. It seems an impossible task in Protel. So I have to re-route the thousands wires. Does any body know other software can do it? Maybe I could do a export-flip-import game. Thanks. Jun -Original Message- From: John M. Cardone [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: 2002?10?9? 16:18 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Jun, Generally all that you can do in Protel are the flipping and turning you can do with a completed pwb with your hands. If you wish to move left to right and right to left, while keeping the components on the top side, you'll need to re-route. John Jun Gong wrote: Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun -- John M. Cardone Electro-Mechanical Dsgn. Engr. Grp. M/S 278-100 Mechanical Engineering Section, 352 4800 Oak Grove Dr.NASA / Jet Propulsion Laboratory Pasadena, Ca 91109MailTo:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Tel: 818.354.5407 Fax: 818.393.6400 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] Lost my Underlines
I seem to have a knack for always hitting the wrong key at the wrong time, and of course doing the wrong thing. I appear to have lost my underlines in my menus for some reason, for example I believe that my edit menu used to have underlines in the words in the menu which would indicate the keyboard shortcut to use, such as DeSelect in the Edit menu used to have an underline in it under the first e, but for some reason it is now gone. Does anyone know what I did to get here, and more important, what I need to do to get back to normal Yeah, I know, I never was normal, but aside from that, how do I get my underlines back. JaMi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
TC, A server would be nice, but I believe it can be done rather easy with the Marco or script feature in Protel 99SE. Best Regards, == Richard Rick J. Wilson - Owner PROTTA Professional Technical Training Associates (916) 941-1185 - Office/Fax (916) 955-0083 - Mobile visit our web site at www.protta.com == -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:27 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Geez, There's been a number of occasions where I could use a server like that! If you were to re-release it, I'd be happy to give it a whirl, Ian. Thanks, TC -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 7:13 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board On 04:49 PM 9/10/2002 -0400, Jun Gong said: I wish to flip the board: ( Top compoents go to bottom, and bottom components come up to top, the wires should be flipped and linked to the original positions, wire layers should be also changed as well.) I have spent more than a hour on it, but still have no circuitous way to do it. It seems an impossible task in Protel. So I have to re-route the thousands wires. Does any body know other software can do it? Maybe I could do a export-flip-import game. Thanks. Jun No, P99SE does *not* support this kind of flip. Using the 'L' key while you are doing a Move-Selection (with everything selected) does *not* work. You may have found out already what sort of mess you end up with. Components are flipped in place becoming divorced from their tracks etc. Geoff Harland and myself started writing an add-on server to do an inversion (as we decided to call it) on a PCB. For a number of reasons, not the least being issues with the undo stack, a bug when moving large selections and other issues (such as our inability to figure out how to programmatically extract and set some layer pair info) - as well as lack of time. This software was released as a limited beta at one stage (time limited) with a number of significant limitations. It did however invert the major object types including tracks, components, pads, vias, arcs, fills, polygons - it did not invert rules and some other stuff as well. It allowed flipping over a defined line that could be vertical, horizontal, 45 rising, 45 falling and even an arbitrary angle (interesting effects and why would you want it?). It may be possible to extract the old source and see where we got to and maybe do a release as is. But when we asked for assistance in testing this server a long time ago we got very little (if any) feedback. So despite it being a hot topic of discussion at the time it seems it was actually of little importance to users. I just tested using the 'L' key in DXP - it works heaps better. I have only given a brief go but it is looking much better than P99SE. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Just build it as it is, then when you get the board in your hand, turn it! Ok, joking aside, what are you really trying to accomplish? If it's what you stated below, why can't you just build it as I mentioned in my joke? -Original Message- From: Jun Gong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel Developers Forum; Open Topic Forum Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
The xilinx FPGA has to be mounted to the outside of the board, right? Then how would you have ANY layer information besides the top layer pads (BGA, TQFP, whatever)? What are you trying to do with layers and parts? -Original Message- From: Anand Kulkarni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM To: PROTEL USER Group Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board - 'X' does not work with components.
On 03:41 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, Rick Wilson (Protta) said: Jun, Flipping a PCB in Protel 99SE can't not be done with a single push of a button, But it's not that hard to do. It's really only a 4 or 5 step process and should take no more that 15 minutes to perform. You will need to do this in steps, but its much like converting Gerber files into real PCBs. If you first select all of your components, via global edit, then copy these off to the clipboard. To do this, pick a good reference point when you do the EDIT/COPY. You should then be able to paste these components down outside of the current design, let's say to The right side of your current PCB. But instead of using a standard paste, use Paste Special under the edit menu.- in this dialog, select Duplicate Designators only and disable all of the other options. Now perform the PASTE option at the bottom of the dialog and while you have the new selection attached to your cursor, (all of the components attached to your cursor), hit the x key to first mirror all of the components in the selection, now before you put them down, hit the L key to flip all components in the selection to the bottom layer. Rick, This leaves complex (anything other than trivial) components in an unmanufacturable state. Do this with a SO/TQFP even a SOT-23 package and you will find that you have to mount the chip upside down to make the pin numbers match. Have you ever built and tested a board where you have used the X key to flip a component? A BGA would be mighty interesting! With smaller SO pkgs you can mount it upsidedown and force the leads down - at least for the botched prototype. Not so easy on the botched proto with a BGA. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Merging pcbs
How will you have the 19 nets connect? If you keep it schematic driven, you need to 'merge' the schematics, so the netlists will combine with each other. If you just want to stick them together, copy and paste and start routing those 19. You'll have all sorts of DRC problems, but that would be expected if you don't have the schematic drive the process. -Original Message- From: Carlos Claveria [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 9:42 AM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: [PEDA] Merging pcbs Hi to you all, I have two multilayer pcbs designed with Protel 99. I was wondering is there was an easy way to merge them without having to reroute the designs. I have about 19 nets that will electrically connect the two boards toghether. Thanks for your help. Carlos A. Claveria Spartek Systems Web: http://www.sparteksystems.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Ian - see below - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board On 02:39 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. * * * * * * * * * * JaMi, I assume you did not test this. Actually, I have now only done it 4 times, and had it work properly all four times, from an electrical standpoint (see below). Issue 1) with paste on current layer turned off the entities will be pasted onto their current layers. Semantics - when I said check off I ment to place a check in those boxes, I am truely sorry if this lead to any confusion. The boxes MUST BE checked to turn those features ON. Once that is done, the SELECTED entities will be pasted onto THE current ACTIVE layer (which is the opposite layer from where we selected the entities in the first place) Issue 2) assuming you meant that paste on current layer a should be checked, this is a great way of getting the components mixed up. Their graphics end up on the top layers abut the component is stated to be on the bottom layer. As well the component is upside down. It would be OK if you get the graphics to the bottom layer as well. Very interesting phenomonin here Ian, and while there does appear to be an initial problem with the graphics, it is not fatal. I assume that you have written up this condition as a BUG in your bug list. If not would you please add it now. You correctly point out that the graphics are not as they should be, but let's get past that for a minute. You also correctly state that the component states that it is now on the bottom layer, EXACTLY WHERE IT SHOULD BE, and in fact where it is. You also correctly state that the component is now upside down, EXACTLY AS WE WANT IT TO BE, and in fact it is correctly oriented on the bottom layer and electrically correct. I would warn anybody against using the stated method without doing their own testing. My testing showed it failed - as was my expectation. I would respectfully submit that possibly you did not follow thru with your testing as far as you should have. As far as I can tell, at this point, your only really valid complaint is that the overlay graphics are on the wrong layer, which in fact they are, and which I would call a serious BUG, that should be corrected in SP7. However, since it may take some time to get SP7, you may have to perform a two part work around in the meantime. WORKAROUND: Part One: After you have placed the Special Paste Array (copy), and before you deselect all of the things in the copy, select one of the selected components, and select Global, and in the global area change Selection to Same, and then select the Designator tab and change Layer to Bottom Overlay, and then go to the global area and set Layer to Same, and then do the same on the Comment tab, and then hit OK. All of your reference designators and component comments should now be where they belong. Part Two: After having done all of the above, you will now have to go back to your component library and Update each component in the design, to get the graphics (outline) to go where they belong. Sorry for the BUG in the first place, but I believe that you will find that this does in fact fix the problem. A lot of steps? Yeah, but it does work. I repeat - P99SE does not allow a board to be flipped as delivered - an add-on server is required (not available to my knowledge apart from Geoff and mine ex-attempt). DXP does better. (My main reason for commenting on this process is not to have a go at anybody but since there is an archive of this forum we do have to make sure we correct and update incorrect or untested techniques.) Please try this again, and please follow thru and change the edsignators/comments and update the components this time. Yeah, it is a lot of work, and even possibly what we here in the States would call Mickey Mouse, but what can I say, you gotta do what you gotta do to get the job done. Ian, please do test this further, and please do get back to us with your findings, as there
[PEDA] Fan out vias from surface mount component pads
Never mind. I found the problem. Thank you. -Original Message- From: Shuping Lew Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 2:44 PM To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' Subject: Fan out vias from surface mount component pads Hi, all, Does anybody know a good way to fan out SMD pins? How many Protel users use Protel Auto Router fan out pass? I have been doing it manually. It is just too much work. I tried Auto Route/setup/setting, selected Fan out used SMD pins only, Then Route all...but it did not work. Nothing happen. Design rules were set for 13/30 for via, 7mil trace w/ 6 mil clearance, and top and bottom layers only. Why doesn't it work? Am I missing something? I am using Protel 99SE. Thank you for any reply... Shuping Lew Quintron Systems, Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Mike, Go read my reply to Ian, and walk thru the problem again, with the added two step work around, and I think that you will find that everything does in fact come out correct in the end. Thanks JaMi - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:38 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Yea Jami and how do you propose to get pin 1 not reversed then populating all of the components on the board all backwards? We call that smoke then fire. Mike - Original Message - From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:39 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Jun, I am not quite sure what you are asking here, but I think you want to take the components and circuitry on the top and flip it on the bottom, and that what was on the bottom then becomes flipped to the top. Try this with a copy of your database, so that you do not loose anything if it does not work. Make sure you have a large area to the right or above you original board to work with. It will be much easier to do this if you set your grid to .100 and make a reference point at the lower left of the original board, and another one at the lower right of the new board location.on this grid. Turn off all layers except the top layer. Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. Position your new array to the right or above the original board, at your new reference point, and then place it with a mouse click. Use E E A (or X A ) to deselect everything. You should now have a mirror image if your top layer on the bottom layer in a new location. You will also have a bunch of rats nest connections going between the two boards since you have duplicated all of the components and all of the traces. Inspect everything to make sure this is what you want, and if so, then continue. Turn off everything except the bottom layer. Select everything on the bottom layer of your original board, and do an E C and select your reference point for your original board. Turn the top layer back on, and make it the current layer. Go thru the E A (Paste Special) Dialogue again, flip it by hitting x, click Yes, and place your new top layer where it belongs with respect to your new bottom layer. You will have to go thru this same scenario for other signal layers of the board, but should not have to worry about flipping plane layers unless you have split planes, in which case you will have to flip them also, although you do have to copy any boundries on your planes,into your new board (although it may be easier just to fix the planes in the Layer Stack Manager after you are done with everything else). Once you have copied or transferred everything to your new flipped board, make sure all of your layers are turned on, and that you have copied everything that you need to copy into your new mirrior image board, and if everything looks OK, then it is time do delete the original. Simply select everything in the original board, and delete it. You may now want to move your new board into the place formerly occupied with the old one. Needless to say, you will have to juggle your mechanical layers to your new configuration, and possibly other things such as the board outline and keepout layers, etc., etc., but other than that I think that you will have what you are looking for. Hope this works for you, JaMi Smith - Original Message - From: Jun Gong [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Protel Developers Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Open Topic Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board
[PEDA] Static Sensitive Symbols or Handle With static Protection
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Ian, Terry, and all, Actually, now that it can be shown to work with a few extra steps, maybe there is a real chance to ressurrect the server and patch it up to follow thru with the fixes to get the graphics and text on the correct layers. It would be nice to have in the arsenol of much needed tools. JaMi - Original Message - From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:26 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Geez, There's been a number of occasions where I could use a server like that! If you were to re-release it, I'd be happy to give it a whirl, Ian. Thanks, TC -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 7:13 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board snip Geoff Harland and myself started writing an add-on server to do an inversion (as we decided to call it) on a PCB. For a number of reasons, not the least being issues with the undo stack, a bug when moving large selections and other issues (such as our inability to figure out how to programmatically extract and set some layer pair info) - as well as lack of time. This software was released as a limited beta at one stage (time limited) with a number of significant limitations. It did however invert the major object types including tracks, components, pads, vias, arcs, fills, polygons - it did not invert rules and some other stuff as well. It allowed flipping over a defined line that could be vertical, horizontal, 45 rising, 45 falling and even an arbitrary angle (interesting effects and why would you want it?). It may be possible to extract the old source and see where we got to and maybe do a release as is. But when we asked for assistance in testing this server a long time ago we got very little (if any) feedback. So despite it being a hot topic of discussion at the time it seems it was actually of little importance to users. I just tested using the 'L' key in DXP - it works heaps better. I have only given a brief go but it is looking much better than P99SE. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
Hi everybody, Well, i'll explain what I am doing as follows : the xilinx part that I am trying to make this board for has 1156 balls. [ball grid array] I referred to the board routability guidelines by xilinx ,i.e application note 157 [XAPP 157] In this document they have specified the fan-out of this particular fine pitch ball grid array [FG1156.] i.e, they have given diagrams of where the vias must be placed and how each pad is routed out of the part throught vias and tracks placed on different layers. I took the footprint provided by protel which had only top layer pads information and to this footprint I added the vias and the the tracks on the different layers that do the fan-out and thus created a new footprint.I am trying to use this new footprint in my PCB ,i.e , my in my schematic the xilinx part references this new footprint. Now,after you have raised a question I am no longer sure if this [i.e what I just described] is okay. Also,I am faced with a new problem. If I go along with what I have done so far, I cannot see the ratsnest after doing the UPDATE-PCB step. Probably this is because the tracks are buried in the different layers and their destination ,i.e the part to which these nets must connect after leaving the Xilinx FPGA balls are surface mount connectors; i.e these tracks must resurface onto the top signal layer [ using vias again ] before they can be routed to the connectors, Again am I right ? Is there a simpler way of doing what I am trying to do ? I hope you are able to help me; I'd appreciate any suggestions , thanks very much Anand Kulkarni -- On Wed, 9 Oct 2002 16:35:41 Tony Karavidas wrote: The xilinx FPGA has to be mounted to the outside of the board, right? Then how would you have ANY layer information besides the top layer pads (BGA, TQFP, whatever)? What are you trying to do with layers and parts? -Original Message- From: Anand Kulkarni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM To: PROTEL USER Group Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
Tony, Usually with a large BGA such as this, it is sometimes preferrable to handle all of the routing of traces in the immediate vicinity of (under the) BGA, as part of the BGA Symbol itself. This allows you to work out the little nuances and problems with the BGA escape routes in the Component Library, while not having to worry about making changes to the actual board and fouling up nets or having vias, and traces always dissappearing, etc.. My Preference, is to place all of the vias and initial routing to the perimeter of the BGA in a seperate Component Symbol all by itself, in addition to the actual BGA Symbol. In either case, this seperate or combined Symbol, by its very design, must have multiple layers. This appears to be where the problem is comming in that Anand is having, in getting the layers of the Component Symbol to properly transfer to the layers of the PCB. The trick is that you can place the BGA Symbol (or seperate BGA Symbol and routing / via Symbol), and then connect it (route it) to the outside world, and if you have any problems, you can simply update the Symbol. In actual practice in Protel, this means placing the Symbol, and then going to the Netlist Manager Menu and doing an Update Free Primitives From Component Pads, which will propigate the net names to the vias and trace routing in the Symbol, and then going from there. In reality, this may take several iterations to get everything resolved into the design the way that you want, and then once that yoyu get to that point, you can release all of the primitives (vias and traces) of the special Symbol into the design using Tools Convert Explode Component to Free Primitives (although this latter step is only necessary if you want to go back into the routing and delete any unused segments or vias). JaMi - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library The xilinx FPGA has to be mounted to the outside of the board, right? Then how would you have ANY layer information besides the top layer pads (BGA, TQFP, whatever)? What are you trying to do with layers and parts? -Original Message- From: Anand Kulkarni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM To: PROTEL USER Group Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] PADS conversion
Mike, I've got PADS 5.0 If you want to email me the files I'll see what I can do. Joe - Original Message - From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 5:33 PM Subject: [PEDA] PADS conversion Hello all I have two very old PADS files dating back to 1996 not even sure what PADS versions these are in , either Perform or Works. I only have PADS from 2.0 up which will not read these PADS job files. I need to get the ASCII conversion for these files so that I can then read them into 99Se, any help out there to convert these to ASCII? Mike Reagan Cornet Technology Inc. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Static Sensitive Symbols or Handle With static Protect ion
Try here: http://www.vermason.co.uk/logo_symbols/esd_symbol_l.jpg -Original Message- From: Robert M. Wolfe [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 11:11 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] Static Sensitive Symbols or Handle With static Protection Does anyone know where I can find symbols for static sensitive device in either dwg, dxf or bit map to import to Protel. I need the one with line thu a triangle and a hand in it. I just can't seem to find anything anywhere on on EIC site that has PDF for sell at about a 100 bucks a pop. I could try and draw but I know there is a sight somewher with a download?? TIA Bob Wolfe * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Tony, that would be one of the ways to create a pick'n place file for bottom layer. Igor -Original Message- From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 9:36 AM To: 'Protel EDA Forum'; 'Protel Developers Forum'; 'Open Topic Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Just build it as it is, then when you get the board in your hand, turn it! Ok, joking aside, what are you really trying to accomplish? If it's what you stated below, why can't you just build it as I mentioned in my joke? -Original Message- From: Jun Gong [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:23 PM To: Protel EDA Forum; Protel Developers Forum; Open Topic Forum Subject: [PEDA] flipping board Hi, Any one knows how to flip a board in Protel? I want to turn the direction of a pre-routed PCB ( the left side will be at right side and right side will be at the left, just like I hold a piece of PCB board in hand and turn it ). I selected the PCB board, then press X key, Protel prompts that it will flip the board in the same layer, so wires are kept in the original layer and compoent footprints are flipped but keep in the original layer. I can not use L key, because a lot of wires and components are selected. Anyone has a solution? Thanks a lot. Jun * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 04:44 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Ian - see below - Original Message - From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:12 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board On 02:39 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Select everything on the top layer (including all traces and components, etc.). Use E C (Edit Copy) and click on your reference point to set the reference point of the copy. Turn the bottom layer back on. Make the bottom layer the active layer. Use E A (Edit Paste Special) to copy the array, and check off the boxes in the Paste Special Dialogue for Paste on current layer, Keep net name, and Duplicate designator, and then click on the Paste button. Hit x on your keyboard to flip the array. You will get a warning message that says Warning: you are attempting to flip a component to the same side of the board . . . , but remember, we changed from the top layer of the board to the bottom layer of the board, so we really are not on the same layer anymore, so where it says Do you want to continue?, click on the Yes button. * * * * * * * * * * JaMi, I assume you did not test this. Actually, I have now only done it 4 times, and had it work properly all four times, from an electrical standpoint (see below). Issue 1) with paste on current layer turned off the entities will be pasted onto their current layers. Semantics - when I said check off I ment to place a check in those boxes, I am truely sorry if this lead to any confusion. The boxes MUST BE checked to turn those features ON. Check on is the standard (MS documentation) for having a check/tick/cross in a check box - so enabling that option. I am happy to take it as read that you meant to say check the first three boxes. Issue 2) assuming you meant that paste on current layer a should be checked, this is a great way of getting the components mixed up. Their graphics end up on the top layers abut the component is stated to be on the bottom layer. As well the component is upside down. It would be OK if you get the graphics to the bottom layer as well. Very interesting phenomonin here Ian, and while there does appear to be an initial problem with the graphics, it is not fatal. Yes I agree with you. Your plan does work. Well done. I assume that you have written up this condition as a BUG in your bug list. If not would you please add it now. No - someone else can prepare the details and I will add. I have said before that is how it works. Provide it to me in the correct form and I add it. ..snip.. As far as I can tell, at this point, your only really valid complaint is that the overlay graphics are on the wrong layer, which in fact they are, and which I would call a serious BUG, that should be corrected in SP7. Not only the overly but also the copper layers. The component looks like it is on the top layer but its properties show it as being on the bottom layer. However, since it may take some time to get SP7, Dream on. you may have to perform a two part work around in the meantime. WORKAROUND: Part One: After you have placed the Special Paste Array (copy), and before you deselect all of the things in the copy, select one of the selected components, and select Global, and in the global area change Selection to Same, and then select the Designator tab and change Layer to Bottom Overlay, and then go to the global area and set Layer to Same, and then do the same on the Comment tab, and then hit OK. All of your reference designators and component comments should now be where they belong. Part Two: After having done all of the above, you will now have to go back to your component library and Update each component in the design, to get the graphics (outline) to go where they belong. Sorry for the BUG in the first place, but I believe that you will find that this does in fact fix the problem. Yep I agree. Your method does flip the board successfully. Well done. The only graphical items that do not get handled exactly correctly, from my look, are the dimension text (text *sometimes* remains to the same side as before (vertical dimension), the dimension itself is OK) and coordinates - these are just not flipped at all correctly. I quickly tested most graphical elements including rotated fills and rotated strings. You may want to do a fully clarified and non-ambiguous write up of this (pass it by others before posting I suggest) so it is on the public record. This is the first fully correct technique I have seen for flipping a section of a design in P99SE. Well done, Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board - 'X' does not work with components.
Ian, I'll send you a copy of the Surface Mount board that I performed the steps I mentioned in my e-mail to Jun and it Will work find, and it can be manufactured. Best Regards, == Richard Rick J. Wilson - Owner PROTTA Professional Technical Training Associates (916) 941-1185 - Office/Fax (916) 955-0083 - Mobile visit our web site at www.protta.com == -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:43 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board - 'X' does not work with components. On 03:41 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, Rick Wilson (Protta) said: Jun, Flipping a PCB in Protel 99SE can't not be done with a single push of a button, But it's not that hard to do. It's really only a 4 or 5 step process and should take no more that 15 minutes to perform. You will need to do this in steps, but its much like converting Gerber files into real PCBs. If you first select all of your components, via global edit, then copy these off to the clipboard. To do this, pick a good reference point when you do the EDIT/COPY. You should then be able to paste these components down outside of the current design, let's say to The right side of your current PCB. But instead of using a standard paste, use Paste Special under the edit menu.- in this dialog, select Duplicate Designators only and disable all of the other options. Now perform the PASTE option at the bottom of the dialog and while you have the new selection attached to your cursor, (all of the components attached to your cursor), hit the x key to first mirror all of the components in the selection, now before you put them down, hit the L key to flip all components in the selection to the bottom layer. Rick, This leaves complex (anything other than trivial) components in an unmanufacturable state. Do this with a SO/TQFP even a SOT-23 package and you will find that you have to mount the chip upside down to make the pin numbers match. Have you ever built and tested a board where you have used the X key to flip a component? A BGA would be mighty interesting! With smaller SO pkgs you can mount it upsidedown and force the leads down - at least for the botched prototype. Not so easy on the botched proto with a BGA. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 05:04 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said: Ian, Terry, and all, Actually, now that it can be shown to work with a few extra steps, maybe there is a real chance to ressurrect the server and patch it up to follow thru with the fixes to get the graphics and text on the correct layers. It would be nice to have in the arsenol of much needed tools. JaMi The server doesn't use the same techniques, mainly it does not assume access to the library component. The problems with the server are at quite a deep level and are (mostly) related to trying to make the inversion what we termed as deep that is all internal layers were flipped (to preserve the layer stack), blind-buried vias were handled correctly, rules with region scopes were handled correctly as well. And there were major problems with the undo stack as well as a known bug related to the same effect that can cause Move-Selection to behave oddly in some circumstances. Doing a simple inversion (outer layers and not attempting to worry about some of the finer details) is simple enough and was robust (apart from the problems in the SDK affecting display and undo). All of these could be fixed I am sure but after the lack of interest there was little interest by the developers in completing the work. If I was to do it properly I would have to charge for it and I wouldn't want to do that. It may be possible to release the code under GPL and let others complete it/offer bug fixes. Ian * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board - 'X' does not work with components.
On 06:53 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, Rick Wilson (Protta) said: Ian, I'll send you a copy of the Surface Mount board that I performed the steps I mentioned in my e-mail to Jun and it Will work find, and it can be manufactured. Please do. I just tried it again on a test. Select and copy components, paste special/duplicate designators, hit 'X' (and yes top warning) and then 'L' to flip layer. Result: Bottom layer SO-14 with pin 1 and 14 at the top has pin 1 on the left. Not manufacturable. Maybe I have missed a step, but I am afraid I can't see how you are not ending up trying to mount the components upsidedown. JaMi's process (different from yours as it does not do the 'L', but does other steps) works. I can't see how yours does. I would love to know. Bye for now, Ian Wilson Best Regards, == Richard Rick J. Wilson - Owner PROTTA Professional Technical Training Associates (916) 941-1185 - Office/Fax (916) 955-0083 - Mobile visit our web site at www.protta.com == -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:43 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board - 'X' does not work with components. On 03:41 PM 9/10/2002 -0700, Rick Wilson (Protta) said: Jun, Flipping a PCB in Protel 99SE can't not be done with a single push of a button, But it's not that hard to do. It's really only a 4 or 5 step process and should take no more that 15 minutes to perform. You will need to do this in steps, but its much like converting Gerber files into real PCBs. If you first select all of your components, via global edit, then copy these off to the clipboard. To do this, pick a good reference point when you do the EDIT/COPY. You should then be able to paste these components down outside of the current design, let's say to The right side of your current PCB. But instead of using a standard paste, use Paste Special under the edit menu.- in this dialog, select Duplicate Designators only and disable all of the other options. Now perform the PASTE option at the bottom of the dialog and while you have the new selection attached to your cursor, (all of the components attached to your cursor), hit the x key to first mirror all of the components in the selection, now before you put them down, hit the L key to flip all components in the selection to the bottom layer. Rick, This leaves complex (anything other than trivial) components in an unmanufacturable state. Do this with a SO/TQFP even a SOT-23 package and you will find that you have to mount the chip upside down to make the pin numbers match. Have you ever built and tested a board where you have used the X key to flip a component? A BGA would be mighty interesting! With smaller SO pkgs you can mount it upsidedown and force the leads down - at least for the botched prototype. Not so easy on the botched proto with a BGA. Ian Wilson * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Re: [PEDA] Lost my Underlines
If you're running WinXP ( or possibly even other MS OSes like Win2K and Win98) there is a check box for the graphic effects for that. It's in the Display Properties control panel, under the Appearance tab. Hide underlined letters for keyboard navigation intil I press the Alt key Uncheck it. Tony -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 3:43 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: [PEDA] Lost my Underlines I seem to have a knack for always hitting the wrong key at the wrong time, and of course doing the wrong thing. I appear to have lost my underlines in my menus for some reason, for example I believe that my edit menu used to have underlines in the words in the menu which would indicate the keyboard shortcut to use, such as DeSelect in the Edit menu used to have an underline in it under the first e, but for some reason it is now gone. Does anyone know what I did to get here, and more important, what I need to do to get back to normal Yeah, I know, I never was normal, but aside from that, how do I get my underlines back. JaMi * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library
I guess I just would rather have the footprint represent the part, and the vias attached represent the routing aspect. What if you want to use that part on a 4 layer board. It may be a big FPGA, but that doesn't mean all pins are needed or used. Maybe they had to go to that package for some logic requirement and got stuck with all those pins. If the router worked properly, then wouldn't it be better to rely on it to do the fan out to as many layers as deemed necessary by the design? -Original Message- From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:00 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Cc: JaMi Smith Subject: Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Tony, Usually with a large BGA such as this, it is sometimes preferrable to handle all of the routing of traces in the immediate vicinity of (under the) BGA, as part of the BGA Symbol itself. This allows you to work out the little nuances and problems with the BGA escape routes in the Component Library, while not having to worry about making changes to the actual board and fouling up nets or having vias, and traces always dissappearing, etc.. My Preference, is to place all of the vias and initial routing to the perimeter of the BGA in a seperate Component Symbol all by itself, in addition to the actual BGA Symbol. In either case, this seperate or combined Symbol, by its very design, must have multiple layers. This appears to be where the problem is comming in that Anand is having, in getting the layers of the Component Symbol to properly transfer to the layers of the PCB. The trick is that you can place the BGA Symbol (or seperate BGA Symbol and routing / via Symbol), and then connect it (route it) to the outside world, and if you have any problems, you can simply update the Symbol. In actual practice in Protel, this means placing the Symbol, and then going to the Netlist Manager Menu and doing an Update Free Primitives From Component Pads, which will propigate the net names to the vias and trace routing in the Symbol, and then going from there. In reality, this may take several iterations to get everything resolved into the design the way that you want, and then once that yoyu get to that point, you can release all of the primitives (vias and traces) of the special Symbol into the design using Tools Convert Explode Component to Free Primitives (although this latter step is only necessary if you want to go back into the routing and delete any unused segments or vias). JaMi - Original Message - From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 4:35 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library The xilinx FPGA has to be mounted to the outside of the board, right? Then how would you have ANY layer information besides the top layer pads (BGA, TQFP, whatever)? What are you trying to do with layers and parts? -Original Message- From: Anand Kulkarni [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 12:57 PM To: PROTEL USER Group Subject: [PEDA] question about layer synchronization between PCB and footprint library Hi everybody, I have struggled with this problem for sometime now; I hope you can help me. I defined a PCB in Protel with 6 layers. The layers were named : top,midlayer1,midlayer2,midlayer29,midlayer30,bottom by default. Now I also created a footprint for a xilinx FPGA part with 6 layers in it and named them the same as above. Now when I do an update of the PCB from the schematics only the layers top,midlayer1,midlayer2 and bottom are copied form the footprint to the PCB ; the layers midlayer29 and midlayer30 do not get copied ; I don't know what is happening ; I'd greatly appreciate any suggestions thanks and regards Anand Kulkarni Watch a championship game with Elway or McGwire. Enter Now at http://champions.lycos.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Ah, thanks. -Original Message- From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Wednesday, October 09, 2002 6:40 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Tony, that would be one of the ways to create a pick'n place file for bottom layer. Igor * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] SDK and info on server development
Hi, I've been using Protel99SE when doing my tertiary design project, and have found that anything involving the word 'auto' seems to be pretty slack. I don't feel that the auto-router or the auto-placement are all they are made out to be. Hence I would like to know whether it's possible to develop a server like add-in for protel that would allow me to make my own autorouter. I know that it seems like a lot of work, however it would really make the product (protel) more functional in my terms. Any information that people could provide me in terms of server development would also be appreciated. I'm also wondering whether development of a server can be done in C, or whether delphi is the only option. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SDK and info on server development
Allot of work? That's probably the biggest understatement I've hear this year! But don't let me discourage you. If you can succeed in doing this - a whole team of programmers at Protel still have not - you will make many friends and allot of money. -Original Message- From: Bevan Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 15:07 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SDK and info on server development Hi, I've been using Protel99SE when doing my tertiary design project, and have found that anything involving the word 'auto' seems to be pretty slack. I don't feel that the auto-router or the auto-placement are all they are made out to be. Hence I would like to know whether it's possible to develop a server like add-in for protel that would allow me to make my own autorouter. I know that it seems like a lot of work, however it would really make the product (protel) more functional in my terms. Any information that people could provide me in terms of server development would also be appreciated. I'm also wondering whether development of a server can be done in C, or whether delphi is the only option. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Don't even joke about it. Shame on you ;) Igor -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 12:46 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board -Original Message- From: Ian Wilson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 11:22 AM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board *snip* If I was to do it properly I would have to charge for it and I wouldn't want to do that. *snip* How about some sort of ATS (or would it be ITS?) scheme? Heheh! ;) TC * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] Database maxed !
Alfonso, It may not be all that bad, they store the documents PCB etc, as binary blocks within the ddb file, just for storage. If you would like to have a look the password is: Manteghulteir All the searching etc would be done in ram using there own system not using the jet engine. DXP has dropped the database system and just stores the files on disk as any normal file, one file per document. Darren Moore -Original Message- From: Alfonso Baz [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sorry about this late reply Thanks Brad I am a programmer and I wasn't aware that protel was using ODBC to access access db's and quite frankly I'm shocked... It appears to be an access 97 db (I don't know what they're using now in DXP) and considering the performance penalties that software has to pay for using ODBC (as it is a set of generic functions that can be used to access odbc compliant databases) I am at a loss as to why they' ve taken this route. Access 97 used what was known as DAO (data access objects which is the Jet engine) and it contained functions (DAO350.dll) specific to this type of data base, it contained a heap of dao specific functions which made searching, traversing and manipulating records and db's a breeze. MS now uses what's known as ADO(activeX data objects or OLE db) which is an expansion of the ODBC ideology with the addition of OLE. In the DAO development kit it advises against using ODBC as it's access speed to the db as half that of DAO. I tried running complicated SQL statements using DAO, ODBC and ADO against a DAO database and DAO beat them all by a difference of Minutes!! Perhaps I shouldn't be shocked... after all these are ppl who are using Delphi, and one only has to look at how they search for library components in their databases in 99SE. If they had any idea about databases they would connect to there dbb's and run an sql statement against the db and produce a list of matches in 1/10th the time it takes that search function of theirs. I hope I haven't upset to many people with my rhetoric 8-) Alfonso Baz * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] SDK and info on server development
I wouldn't charge for the router... However I also wouldn't develop it for anyone else but me. It seems that Protel had a room full of chimps developing alot of their stuff. I can't get how they can release Protel99SE with an auto-placement that causes components to get 'thrown' off the board entirely, and then crashes the PCB document when you ask it to make the changes, or make the changes anyway when you ask it to not save changes. That's the statistical routre btw. The standard cluster is ok, although it's placement leaves alot to be desired as well. The autorouter always seems to implement a greedy algorithm, ie won't move away from the target, unless it has to (ie it's boxed itself in such that it can only move forward). This gives rise to stupid loops where it goes all the way around a pin, some real crazy stuff... I reckon that given enough good feedback from designers about what's the best way to route a particular situation an autorouter could be produced that would do such a thing. It's after all just a series of line segments from one point to another (and then more...) It's not like it's a morbius strip, though it sometimes feels like... - Original Message - From: Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, October 10, 2002 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [PEDA] SDK and info on server development Allot of work? That's probably the biggest understatement I've hear this year! But don't let me discourage you. If you can succeed in doing this - a whole team of programmers at Protel still have not - you will make many friends and allot of money. -Original Message- From: Bevan Weiss [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 15:07 To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: [PEDA] SDK and info on server development Hi, I've been using Protel99SE when doing my tertiary design project, and have found that anything involving the word 'auto' seems to be pretty slack. I don't feel that the auto-router or the auto-placement are all they are made out to be. Hence I would like to know whether it's possible to develop a server like add-in for protel that would allow me to make my own autorouter. I know that it seems like a lot of work, however it would really make the product (protel) more functional in my terms. Any information that people could provide me in terms of server development would also be appreciated. I'm also wondering whether development of a server can be done in C, or whether delphi is the only option. Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
[PEDA] signal integrity
I've just started playing around with the signal integrity aspect of Protel99SE and am quite pleased with it... It always says that there are warnings about my PCB, however it seems to work fine when I let it continue. I assume that these are undefined integrity (IBIS or similar) libraries. How do you define the IBIS (or protel library file) to use for each component?? How does protel store the simulation(signal integrity) libraries? Why does it not import so many IBIS files, it always complains the the file load failed. I've only managed to get a single one working, that's the CY22393FC IBIS file. Any suggestions as to how to rememdy this, or will I have to dig around in the IBIS specifications and insure that the files I wish to import are all correctly defined? Thanks, Bevan Weiss * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
On 02:35 PM 10/10/2002 +0930, Terry Creer said: Heh! sorry 'bout that - I couldn't help it :) But seriously - Most of the boards we deal with here are only double sided, with the occasional 4 layer, so the server that Ian co-wrote, sounds ok to me. I seem to remember seeing a server a while ago, that brought up a window which allowed you to view the other side of the PCB in the correct orientation. I can't remember where it came from (could have been a commercial website). TC That is one of mine as well. You can download and use if you wish. I ask for payment of some small amount if you think it is useful. The amount of money I have made from server development does not come close to covering the time I spend. It is more of a hobby. I have released some freeware as well. http://www.considered.com.au/ProtelFiles/CSFlipView_1_2.zip This was written as a work around to the problems we were having with the inverter. It is most useful for positioning bottom side designators. Ian Considered Solutions Pty Ltd mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ABN: 96 088 410 002 5 The Crescent CHATSWOOD 2067 Ph: +61 2 9411 4248 Fax: +61 2 9411 4249 * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Re: [PEDA] flipping board
I believe someone mentioned it in this forum as well. Igor -Original Message- From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 3:05 PM To: 'Protel EDA Forum' Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Heh! sorry 'bout that - I couldn't help it :) But seriously - Most of the boards we deal with here are only double sided, with the occasional 4 layer, so the server that Ian co-wrote, sounds ok to me. I seem to remember seeing a server a while ago, that brought up a window which allowed you to view the other side of the PCB in the correct orientation. I can't remember where it came from (could have been a commercial website). TC -Original Message- From: Igor Gmitrovic [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] Sent: Thursday, 10 October 2002 2:03 PM To: Protel EDA Forum Subject: Re: [PEDA] flipping board Don't even joke about it. Shame on you ;) Igor * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * To post a message: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * To leave this list visit: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/leave.html * * Contact the list manager: * mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] * * Forum Guidelines Rules: * http://www.techservinc.com/protelusers/forumrules.html * * Browse or Search previous postings: * http://www.mail-archive.com/proteledaforum@techservinc.com * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
