Christian,
Thank you for your reply.
The 1st option is not possible for us, since the SVN repository is
controlled by Collabnet.
For the 2nd option, can you please tell me how to use my user name to
access the SVN server (thru https)?
Thanks
Daniel
On Jun 29, 5:21 pm, Christian Hammond chip
certificate exists in ~/.subversion/auth for the user that reviewboard
is running as.
So may be I can change this user name to my login user name, which can
access my SVN server.
Thanks
Daniel
On Jul 12, 9:21 pm, Tim Potter metatr...@gmail.com wrote:
2009/7/10 Daniel dkarn...@sbcglobal.net
dependencies for setuptools
#
Any help?
Thanks!
Daniel
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-packages/setuptools-0.6c11-py2.4.egg
Processing dependencies for setuptools
Finished processing dependencies for setuptools
#
Is there an alternative way to install it?
Thanks,
Daniel
On Mar 3, 6:24 pm, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.com wrote:
Looks like a temporary network issue. I can
/perforce/doc.current/user/p4pythonnotes.txthas more
info.
Dana Lacoste
-Original Message-
From: reviewboard@googlegroups.com [mailto:reviewbo...@googlegroups.com] On
Behalf Of Daniel
Sent: Monday, March 29, 2010 10:07 AM
To: reviewboard
Subject: Re
, line 427,
in new_review_request
UnboundLocalError: local variable 'rsp' referenced before assignment
On Apr 14, 11:28 am, Daniel dyoon@gmail.com wrote:
I am still seeing it.
$ post-review 186593
Traceback (most recent call last):
File /net/adc2100488/scratch/opt/bin/post-review, line
I'm sorry. I missed the part about nightly build. No, it's just from
1.0.6. Is using nightly the only way to go about it now?
Thanks,
Daniel
On Apr 15, 5:36 pm, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.com wrote:
Hmm, and this is the nightly? It's hard to tell from the debug output.
Christian
, and
memcached. I tried with both mod_wsgi and mod_python (however version
2.4 was being invoked so I need to try and recompile the apache module
against python 2.6).
Any suggestions what else I can try?
Thanks in advance,
Daniel
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)
Thanks,
Daniel
% rb-site manage /full/path/to/my/site/ validate
0 errors found
% rb-site manage /full/path/to/my/site/ test
Creating test database 'default'...
Creating table django_admin_log
Creating table auth_permission
Creating table auth_group_permissions
Creating table auth_group
Creating
I looked over the documentation but couldn't find an answer... is
there any way to hide certain fields that are not required on the
'Create New Review Request' page?
'branch' and even 'diff' may not be relevant when only reviewing
graphics.
Thanks,
Daniel
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When I upload multiple screenshots using the drag and drop feature,
it'd be really nice if the caption would default to the filename
instead of 'no name'.
Thanks!
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I just noticed that ElementRiver has an eclipse based plugin for code
reviews. It could be nice to start reviews right in the IDE but
ReviewBoard has a lot of essential features too. An integration would
be interesting...
Done.
http://code.google.com/p/reviewboard/issues/detail?id=1966
On Jan 28, 8:12 pm, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.com wrote:
I agree. Would you mind filing a bug on that?
Christian
On Friday, January 28, 2011, Daniel da.s...@gmail.com wrote:
When I upload multiple screenshots using
be greatly appreciated.
Thanks,
Daniel
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, that was with verbose turned
on.
Any and all help and offers are appreciated.
Thanks,
Daniel
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,
Daniel
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Yep, that did it. Thanks.
Daniel
On Monday, March 26, 2012 11:56:45 PM UTC-6, brajesh wrote:
Hi Daniel,
You need to make changes under Database - Sites
Thanks
Brajesh
On Tue, Mar 27, 2012 at 6:06 AM, Daniel wrote:
One of my Review Board users attempted to reset his password. He got
Attached is the screenshot of the console you asked for.
Thanks,
Daniel
https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-zI4uTyoe4ys/T6QParQvlfI/AFQ/jEq2pTO8Q1E/s1600/ScreenShot003.jpg
On Thursday, April 26, 2012 2:48:54 PM UTC-6, Christian Hammond wrote:
What version of Review Board?
Can
is closing them as there is no
record of who closed them, and I can't find any evidence in the logs to
show when something is closed and an indication to who did it.
Any help will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
Daniel
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http
Hello,
My corp security department prevents me using the ReviewBoard because there
are publicly known vulnerabilities in the one of RB's components
(particularly jQuery 1.8).
Would it possible for the community to mitigate those issues ?
CVE-2015-9251
ot happy already, having
realized once more what an amount of time you pour into this!)
So thank you once more and now i am back in lurkmode :)
Am Dienstag, 20. August 2019 17:03:42 UTC+2 schrieb Stephen Gallagher:
>
> On Tue, Aug 20, 2019 at 11:00 AM Daniel > wrote:
> >
> >
.
I would be very happy if you would maybe find the time to describe the way
(if there is any) in that i might be able to install a "more modern than
2.5.17"-version of RB into a RHEL7 system without manually installing too
many dependencies.
TIA and cheers
Daniel
>
--
Supercharg
--
To reply, visit https://hellosplat.com/s/beanbag/tickets/4847/
--
New ticket #4847 by brokenalarms
For Beanbag, Inc. > Review Board
Status:
--
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--
New update by brokenalarms
For Beanbag, Inc. > Review Board > Ticket #4847
/media /usr/share/reviewboard/htdocs/media
Alias /errordocs /usr/share/reviewboard/htdocs/errordocs
/VirtualHost
enable new site configuration :
a2ensite review.sharengo.org
reload apache configuration :
/etc/init.d/apache2 reload
fharrison wrote:
Daniel, are you on Windows
/reviewrequests/new/ which fails.
Any suggestions on what might be wrong with my apache server config?
On Sep 17, 1:51 pm, Daniel Wexler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Almost got everything working, but I'm still having some trouble with
post-review. Looks like the diff is now being created properly and
most
specified
On Sep 17, 4:28 pm, Daniel Wexler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Searching the old posts, looks like this is probably some sort of
apache configuration error on my part. However, I don't see any
errors in the apache log, but I do see two requests for the post, one
for /api/json/accounts/login
, would it all Just Work (tm)?
On Sep 19, 5:00 pm, Daniel Wexler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Has anyone explored the new Python bindings for Perforce?
http://www.perforce.com/perforce/doc.081/manuals/p4script/p4script.pdf
They seem to have functions for logging in to the server with a
specific user
be a really great feature to have, and I'd be
surprised if it weren't there.
Daniel
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whichever one you select).
These can be commented on like normal diffs.
Christian
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On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 1:39 PM, Daniel Wong allyourc
, which isn't beta. Do I need to do something in addition to rb-
site upgrade?
Thanks,
Daniel
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On Tue, Jul 14, 2009 at 3:26 PM, Daniel Wong allyourc...@gmail.com wrote:
I didn't run that command. The docs say I should run rb-site upgrade:
http://www.review-board.org
I've checked out a copy of rb from svn so I can develop some features
in rb. Unfortunately, I'm am running into problems with the devserver
not being able to find djblet media files such as jquery.gravy.js. I'm
guessing I'm missing some kind of config that tells the server where
to look for these
Sorry to bug you, but I'm really looking forward to bazaar support.
Any idea when this will be released or even just committed? I'd try
out unreleased code to use it.
Thanks so much for your awesome work. Reviewboard is great!
Dan
On Jan 30, 3:31 pm, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.com wrote:
I'll suggest finishing bazaar support in post-review although there
may not be that much work left there.
Dan
On Mar 21, 4:19 pm, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.com wrote:
Hey everyone,
We've been accepted again this year in Google's Summer of Code, a yearly
event where students from
Hi,
Adding bzr support to post-review seems to be in limbo. There's a
patch for it at
http://reviews.reviewboard.org/r/1739/
and a thread about it at
http://groups.google.com/group/reviewboard/browse_thread/thread/888a492465ded9/b42a2ec7bcc7e6c8?lnk=gstq=dbenamy#b42a2ec7bcc7e6c8
There's a
://www.reviewboard.org
VMware, Inc. -http://www.vmware.com
On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel Benamy dben...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Adding bzr support to post-review seems to be in limbo. There's a
patch for it at
http://reviews.reviewboard.org/r/1739/
and a thread about it at
http
patches again.
Christian
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Review Board -http://www.reviewboard.org
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On Sat, Jun 25, 2011 at 3:29 PM, Daniel Benamy dben...@gmail.com wrote:
Hi,
Adding bzr support to post-review seems to be in limbo. There's
,
Daniel
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Hi all,
We're using Review Board 1.6.4.1.
We access a Subversion server thru a proxy which is configured in /
root/.subversion/servers.
The 'svn info http://svn.foo.com:8080/repos/3845' command return a
correct response.
But when we try to create a new repository in reviewboard, the server
kicks
Hi,
I am going to use rb-site to dump the data and then import onto a new
webserver.
Whilst trying to check out the options I noticed that when I do rb-site -h
there is no help regarding the manage options.
I am going to check the source code - but is this intentional or just an
oversight?
I am using post-review to generate my diff requests and post them to my
reviewboard instance.
One of my SVN servers has restricted access, as such I mark it as non
publically accessible and add all the Users /Groups that can access it.
The problem is when I run post-review it fails to find the
I have tried to install this release.
I had to manually installed Djblets 0.7 and then I could install by
specifying -f to easy_install.
Onc done I then did
rb-site upgrade /path/my/site
This took a while and generated the following:
Upgrading Review Board from 1.6.11 to 1.7 beta 1
There are
, August 3, 2012 7:49:01 PM UTC+1, Christian Hammond wrote:
Hi Daniel,
The CACHE_* warnings you get are harmless. Just new APIs in Django we have
to migrate to.
We can't detect the config file location. The user may be using our
auto-generated ones, or they may have copied/pasted
Has anyone managed to patch or modify reviewboard so that diffs generated
under SVN 1.7 actually work with post-review and ReviewBoard?
The upgrade to SVN is about to hit my department and it will be a shame to
stop reviewing code as a result of this change
Dan
--
Want to help the
Very exciting - I look forward to getting this installed.
One question I have is about RBTools?
I am using ReviewBot and that depends on the API branch of RBtools.
Do you know if the API branch is going to be merged / released at the same
time?
Also I understand there was a plan for a Python
I just found this pack of extensions and saw the XML Review Extension.
However there is little explaining what this does or how it enhances the
process of reviewing XML.
Can anyone tell me what it adds? I thought I had installed it properly and
then looked at a review with XML files and noted
I have downloaded and installed it - I have then pointed it at my company
server.
But it just spins - with the busy icon.
Does it require anonymous access or anything as it does not seem to be
asking for username/password?
Dan
On Saturday, April 20, 2013 12:15:31 AM UTC+1, Kirollos Risk
.
If it spins indefinitely, it may mean that you haven't logged in to Review
Board, thus the authentication cookie isn't set.
Currently, you *cannot* log in via the extension itself (I am working on
that).
- Kiro
On Monday, 22 April 2013 08:56:14 UTC-7, Daniel Laird wrote:
I have downloaded
This is probably a Django issue, but if I'm using mysql, should my tables
be in innodb format or myisam?
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I tried and failed to install the ascii art shipit extension.
2013-06-10 18:41:31,649 - ERROR - - Error loading extension
shipit_ascii_art_extension: No module named
shipit_ascii_art_extension.extension
2013-06-10 18:41:36,053 - ERROR - - Error loading extension
shipit_ascii_art_extension: No
- Extensions, find the ascii art
extension, and disable it from there.
It's not listed.
According to that, there are no extensions registered
On Jun 10, 2013, at 11:50 AM, Daniel Kelly arrays.tostr...@gmail.com
wrote:
I tried and failed to install the ascii art shipit extension.
2013-06
No that's not it. I've rebooted this box ( a VM ) multiple times since
the problem started happening.
On Mon, Jun 10, 2013 at 8:12 PM, Christian Hammond chip...@chipx86.comwrote:
On Jun 10, 2013, at 1:07 PM, Daniel Kelly arrays.tostr...@gmail.com
wrote:
Extensions should be disabled from
New user to ReviewBoard here. Great tool with an intuitive interface,
thanks for your efforts! Recently, one of my users was using 'rbt' from
RBTools 0.5.1 and noticed that it would not accept '~' in the value for
--diff-filename. My guess was that rbt does not run os.path.expanduser on
the
I am using RB 1.7.x with an LDAP authentication backend and it's been
working fine up through 1.7.13. With 1.7.14, the authentication mechanism
no longer works in my environment. After some digging, it appears that
there was a change in reviewboard/accounts/backends.py to search
anonymously
On Tue, Sep 24, 2013 at 7:32 PM, Daniel Kan danie...@gmail.comjavascript:
wrote:
I am using RB 1.7.x with an LDAP authentication backend and it's been
working fine up through 1.7.13. With 1.7.14, the authentication mechanism
no longer works in my environment. After some digging, it appears
David,
Sorry for the massive delay! I've finally posted it at
https://reviews.reviewboard.org/r/4953/.
On Friday, October 18, 2013 1:51:59 AM UTC-7, David Trowbridge wrote:
Daniel,
I'd suggest making a quick clone of the reviewboard repository, making
your change, and then posting your
In the dashboard navbar, one of my users noticed that if a review group is
sufficiently long and the group has =100 reviews, the UI wraps both the
group name and the number of reviews. Wrapping the group name isn't too big
a deal. However, wrapping the number of reviews makes it a bit hard to
Perfect - thanks!
I'll try to test when I have some free time.
On Thursday, January 30, 2014 12:05:29 PM UTC-5, Daniel F wrote:
I haven't been able to successfully use *rbt post
--revision-range=SINGLE_REVISION*.
It works fine if I use the syntax *rbt post --revision-range
All,
Due to various issue my development server has to be re-purposed as the
main server.
This has meant I have to revert from 2.0RC2 - 1.7.25 (the latest stable
version).
At this point I usually import the database and media files and all works
ok.
However I get the following:
Traceback
AM, Daniel Laird
daniel@googlemail.comjavascript:
wrote:
All,
Due to various issue my development server has to be re-purposed as the
main server.
This has meant I have to revert from 2.0RC2 - 1.7.25 (the latest stable
version).
At this point I usually import the database and media
All,
I wish to change the name of a repository in Reviewboard (am using it in a
RB extension).
However when i change the field and enter the authentication details I just
get a box that says
'Please correct the error below'
However nothing in shown.
I have check the logs and nothing is
We are running 0.7.9
/usr/local/lib/python2.6/dist-packages/Djblets-0.7.9-py2.6.egg
Cheers
Dan
On Tuesday, 13 May 2014 10:07:55 UTC+1, David Trowbridge wrote:
Dan,
What version of djblets is installed?
-David
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:28 AM, Daniel Laird
daniel
I am running 1.7.18 and having this problem.
I could upgrade to 1.7.25 if you think that will fix it?
Dan
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That sorted it - thank you.
Cheers
Dan
On Tuesday, 13 May 2014 21:49:26 UTC+1, David Trowbridge wrote:
The fix itself is in djblets 1.7.26. If you upgrade to Review Board 1.7.25
you'll get the latest djblets along with it.
-David
On Tue, May 13, 2014 at 1:01 PM, Daniel Laird
daniel
All,
We are currently using post-review and Reviewboard 1.7.25 (RBtools 0.5.1).
We added a new Repo to Reviewboard and its listed as repository 26.
However when we try to post a new review to Reviewboard we get:
DEBUG:root:repository info: Path: http://server/svn/repo_name, Base path:
/trunk,
All,
My company have a TeamForge service running and are using GIT as the
default SCM.
I have a local Reviewboard server and would like to point it at the GIT
repo - instead of using the default code review tool of gerrit
I am using Reviewboard 1.7.25 currently
The TeamForge project says that
Hi,
I have a new reviewboard installation (2.0.5), and we've setup a subversion
repository. However, the repository is never synchronized with the server
after it is first added. I can re-add the repo and am able to see the most
recent revisions, but after that, the view into the repository
All,
We were running Reviewboard 1.7.25 and people used a number of methods to
create review requests:
svn diff - manually upload
post-review
rbt
I have just migrated us to Reviewboard 2.0.11 and seem to have hit an issue.
Some of our reviews no longer display it suggests that a file cant be
by
SVN diff.
Cheers
Dan
On Thursday, 18 December 2014 11:29:18 UTC, Daniel Laird wrote:
All,
We were running Reviewboard 1.7.25 and people used a number of methods to
create review requests:
svn diff - manually upload
post-review
rbt
I have just migrated us to Reviewboard 2.0.11 and seem
:' in it, though.
Christian
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On Thu, Dec 18, 2014 at 4:32 AM, Daniel Laird daniel@googlemail.com
javascript: wrote:
To follow up the error
:
Hi Daniel,
We never intended the base directory to contain a URL. It sounds like the
custom script is probably responsible for this.
Can you confirm whether the base directory's URL exactly matches the
configured URL for the repository?
In the case that it does match, we take
All,
Since RB 1.5 I have backed up the RB installation everynight be by using
mysqldump user=x password=y reviewboard backup.sql
I have also backed up all attachments etc.
I could then restore the data easily with another script.
I used this method to upgrade from 1.7.25 - 2.0.11 and with the
All,
Before I try and write some python that queries all users (ideally active)
and gets their email addresses. Has anyone else done this and would you be
willing to share?
I want to be able to announce things like RBtools 0.7 to all active users
and cant think of another way (other than the
Hopefully this is a simple question with a simple answer as I am very new
and unexperienced with the code for this web page.
My company uses review board for code reviews and also has a company wiki
page with the procedures used for code reviews. I would like to have a
link to that wiki page
I am using RBtools 0.6.3 and am trying to post a review to ReviewBoard.
We use SVN as our version control system.
We are not using the .reviewboardrc files but the reviewboard:url property
as this means less files in the workspace.
For most of our repos this works fine and rbt post creates a
wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Do you think you could add some code to print out the contents of 'log'
inside _convert_symbolic_revision before we try to construct the etree?
Thanks,
-David
On Fri Jan 30 2015 at 4:48:37 AM Daniel Laird daniel@googlemail.com
javascript: wrote:
We have a shared
I was able to get it to run by changing the directory name of
ReviewBoard-2.0.13-py2.7.egg
to ReviewBoard-2.0.12-py2.7.egg.
On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:45:53 AM UTC-6, Daniel Bansch wrote:
I'm trying to install review board on redhat with apache, mod_wsgi and
mysql. I get
I used easy_install.
On Friday, February 20, 2015 at 10:45:53 AM UTC-6, Daniel Bansch wrote:
I'm trying to install review board on redhat with apache, mod_wsgi and
mysql. I get this error when I go to my review board site
/mysite and restarted everything, but
the same error pops up.
I have ReviewBoard-2.0.12-py2.7.egg and ReviewBoard-2.0.13-py2.7.egg in my
python site-packages directory.
Does anyone have any suggestions?
Thanks,
Daniel
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We have a shared Debian server and we have updated RBtools to 0.7.
When we try to post a review we get the following:
SERVER_NAME rbt post -d NUM
RBTools 0.7
Python 2.7.3 (default, Mar 13 2014, 11:03:55)
[GCC 4.7.2]
Running on Linux-3.2.0-4-amd64-x86_64-with-debian-7.8
Home =
That fixed it. Many Thanks!
On Friday, April 17, 2015 at 2:05:03 PM UTC-7, Christian Hammond wrote:
Hi Daniel,
Sorry, I've been pretty swamped.
First, make a backup of your database. Then, try:
DELETE FROM django_project_version WHERE id=4;
Then perform the upgrade again
Any update here?
On Friday, March 20, 2015 at 1:29:07 PM UTC-7, Daniel Dominguez wrote:
Running --hint --evolve had not been done before. It was just my
experimenting after seeing this issue (with a current backup of the db
first of course).
Anyhow, I've attached the sql dump you
, 15 February 2015 21:20:00 UTC, Daniel Laird wrote:
After some investigation we found the following:
# TODO: This can break on systems that don't have the en_US local
# installed (which isn't very many). Ideally in this case, we could
# put something in the config file, but that's not plumbed
WE are running 2.0.17 and have managed to create a situation and dont know
how to resolve it - or whether its a defect
Someone created 2 reviews with code changes that were dependent.
They marked Review 2 as Depends On Review 1 - this then updated the
'Blocks' field.
They then marked Review 1
With Review Board's recent 10th anniversary, I thought it would be
interesting to compare the size of everyone's Review Board site.
We are sitting at 125,000 reviews, 2032 users and a 26GB database size on
disk.
What's yours at?
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> Christian Hammond
> President/CEO of Beanbag <https://www.beanbaginc.com/>
> Makers of Review Board <https://www.reviewboard.org/>
>
> On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 6:55 AM, Daniel Kuecker <dan...@kuecker.net>
> wrote:
>
>> Oops, forgot to mention I
Any pointers?
On Thu, Sep 22, 2016 at 10:54 PM, john levin <smart.le...@gmail.com> wrote:
> I did.. and i was successful..
>
> On Sep 23, 2016 12:30 AM, "Daniel Kuecker" <dan...@kuecker.net> wrote:
>
>> Has anyone been successful building RBTools 0.7.6 in
script we
run and is called from other build-related scripts.
I only really need post and patch functionality and we hard-code the RB url.
Thanks for the response!!!
--Daniel
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 12:05 AM, Christian Hammond <
christ...@beanbaginc.com> wrote:
> Out of curiosity, wh
YES! Thats a wonderful idea (the single shared install)! Thanks for the
idea! I think it will work for us!
--Daniel
On Fri, Sep 23, 2016 at 8:26 AM, Christian Hammond <christ...@beanbaginc.com
> wrote:
> Sorry, I don't have any pointers here. Tools like py2exe drastically
> cha
Are you getting an error?
Did you copy your apache-wsgi.conf to /etc/httpd/conf.d/?
If you did that, you might need to enable httpd port passthru in the
firewall.
On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 9:19:22 AM UTC-5, P P Gobind Chandra
Praharaj wrote:
>
> I have set-up all prerequisites and
l.
Thanks in advance!
--Daniel
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You received this message b
temporary patch file with
proper line endings?
FWIW: I ran this from a linux machine and it works fine.
Thanks!
--Daniel
On Tuesday, April 8, 2014 at 3:07:23 PM UTC-5, Igor Berger wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> This is not a Review Board problem. I'm just wondering whether anyone is
> using &quo
Oops, forgot to mention I am running this on Windows 10.
RBTools: 0.7.6
RB: tried on versions 1.7.27 and 2.5.6.1
On Thursday, September 22, 2016 at 8:50:04 AM UTC-5, Daniel Kuecker wrote:
>
> Running "rbt patch " command results in a file not found error
> for every file
Running "rbt patch " command results in a file not found error
for every file in the request. I verified the files are synced to my local
drive. Any ideas?
Command line info (path info removed for anonymity):
C:\P4>rbt patch 127325
Patch is being applied from request 127325 with diff
I recently moved our RB 1.7.27 instance to a 2.5.9 instance. I restored a
backup of the 1.7.27 db to the 2.5.9 instance and ran rb-site install and
waited and waited. Everything converted successfully and we are now
running 2.5.9 (our users love it! yay!)
NOTE: Before the restore, to avoid
I'm getting this error on our production RB server. We are using P4 with
LDAP authentication.
SCMError: [P4#run] Errors during command execution( "p4 login" )
[Error]: "Fatal client error; disconnecting!\nOperation
'client-SetPassword' failed.\nToo many trys to get lock
Thanks for the quick reply Christian! I see apache did not have write
access to the data folder. I enabled it and will watch for future errors.
Thanks!
--DK
On Tue, May 23, 2017 at 3:17 PM, Christian Hammond <christ...@beanbaginc.com
> wrote:
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I haven't, but
I have a fresh 2.5.9 install with a db taken from a backup of another 2.5.9
install (basically a backup of my production instance).
On the production instance, I am experiencing 100% cpu usage every time the
update_index cron job runs causing my users to complain about
responsiveness of the
Thanks for the quick reply Christian!
I would like the info on configuring Elasticsearch if you don't mind.
--DK
On Monday, May 1, 2017 at 3:12:06 PM UTC-5, Christian Hammond wrote:
>
> Hi Daniel,
>
> I believe this happens because unlike review requests, we have no way of
&
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