Re: contest site down
Hi Boris, good luck and hope you can get rid of these damned attacks:-) Kopf hoch! - Your 3ddart website is one of the most important marketing tools for realsoft 3d advertising and all rs users! best wishes to fetch all lost content, servus, Frank Brübach No : As Asual : Not Even Close : New Users are the life blood of a 3D app . RS3D is on the verge of extinction . V6 is unuseable . Unuseable to new users but the decrepit seem to have no problems . Best thing would be to bow-out now and blame Servers . So many bugs ,workarounds other 3D S/W's . Let the forum die . Let the S/W die . No ? OK then . Why not ? Sure , it's a great tool for those that have learned all the dozens of workarounds . Or , for the odd clown who has slightly reworked a VSL Shader for $ Guess , what ? These people could care less about 'The New Guy' . *** It's all about 'The New Guy'(so very , very ... NOT! [here] ) *** Option 1/2/3/4/5/...99/... Forget about it - Better Off Dead/Instead RS3D no longer compares to LW RS3D no longer compares to C4D RS3D no longer compares to Maya RS3D no longer compares to Max RS3D no longer compares to Blender Well , yes , if you read the shiny box RS does . It was a very good ride .../ride_over . garry
Re: Camera ?
simply dont click in the view and hit enter or RMB- accept..and all is fine as before .. hopefully ;°) gunnar Hi Gunnar : Yes , the bug is consistent with my personal startup project , but is not in the original install's Startup Project . Not sure how it crept in there . Guess I'll have to rebuild it , again . thanks for your reply garry Maybe it's my non-stock Startup , when I create a camera object it isn't positioned properly . In fact , if i move my mouse in front of the View Window the Camera Object appears in Wireframe. The workaround is to do a Left-Mouse/Camera/View to Object . Previous versions did this automatically for you . studio
Re: Landscape experiments - a render
Here's : Stylized render of a USGS .DEM (Alaskan ,USA) . Foreground is Cook Inlet , then Anchorage , mountains in background . MT. Gordon Lyon is the peak near center-right . http://www.studiodynamics.net/list/alaska.html 90KB cheers garry
Re: Camera ?
Hi Garry, I have the same bug when I try to create a camera in quadview environment. Just maximize the 3d window (Alt + doubleclick) and retry to create a camera. Jan Ah , OK , thanks . garry
Re: Landscape experiments
since i´m into uvmapping currently too.. a single uvset can be created by selecting all faces and hit the uvset button.. Hi Gunnar : Yes , I tried that , assuming it would work nicely . It did of course create the single UV Set , but then it will not show up in the UV Editor . I tried your advice of closing the UV Editor Window , then opening it again and then dragging the UV Set into the Editor . This would not work with my tiny? 30-80K Polygon .DEM mesh , but works fine with smaller meshes . Same as imported .Obj's not showing up in the UV Editor ,these .DEM's will not show up , unless i hit the 'Init-UV' button , and then the .Dem will show up , but looks very distorted . Same with a single UV-Set . I can create one that will show up in the Editor , but I have to do a 'Init-UV' first to the .DEM . Then any created single UV Sets shows up , but are distorted . Also , RS goes unresponsive when working with these 30-80K objects but Task Manager tells me a single core is working at 100% so I wait 5 minutes and then the UV Set(s) appear . Oddly enough , 3 cores sit idle but XP-Pro becomes very sluggish when RS goes unresposive . I think this tute will focus on 30-80K size .DEM's , a tiny portion of an average .DEM . Larger .DEM's will work too , but smaller ones will be the starting point . (or by merging all uvsets ;°) Tried that too , but several attempts showed the same gibberish in the UV Editor Window (see atached .Gif) . ..uv distortions on polygonal sds are far less when you turn on phong shade(spec props) OK , thanks . The .Dem importer turns Phong on by default too . The .Dem comes in stretched in the vertical direction , but can be easily 're-squared' using the handles . Anyway , I'm completely backing away from UV-Mapping these .DEM's. I have found that I can use freeware S/W to create a parallel map that works very well for long camera shots . The .Dem imports fast and easy and then the map is created and applied very quickly . Renders are very fast too . This is the best way I think . Unresponsive RS is far beyond my level of patience , anymore . cheers gunnar thanks for the reply garry Hi Garry, Weekend list slowdown : Rudimentary attemp at getting _useable_ Digital Elevation Data and the corresponding bitmaps into RS using _Freeware S/W_ . UV Mapping is not working . UV Sets will work (4 sets) , but are unuseable mostly . I need a single UV Set and RSV6 will not provide it , for some reason . attachment: merged_set.gif
Re: landscaping (Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?)
The procedure is coming back bit by bit in my head now... I'm almost sure I used the excellent HDRShop to convert WorldMachine 32bit floating point RAW output to HDRI. Great . If you want to do a readme.txt I'll add it to the .zip . Theoretically, with V6, new opportunities are awaiting with the plants and instancing, but that will be a heavy load on poor RS... Yep . I've been working on a VSL shader for rock layers that's really not finished yet, but if anyone is interested I'll upload this project: http://www.athanor3d.com/pub/isle02_triset.jpg Maybe it's worth working out this material better. Well , it's a nice render , and good looking 'Strata' Shader . I think I've said it a few times ... need a Shader that will texturize , based on 'Height' (altitude) and 'Mesh Angle' (slope) . In a new project - a cave- I used a simple noise modified by a curve for displacement of the rocks, and a color that depends on bump height. The result was surprizing: http://www.athanor3d.com/pub/View07c1.jpg However, in some viewpoints, displacement rendering artifacts spoil the image :( -Mark Nice render ! garry
Camera ?
Maybe it's my non-stock Startup , when I create a camera object it isn't positioned properly . In fact , if i move my mouse in front of the View Window the Camera Object appears in Wireframe. The workaround is to do a Left-Mouse/Camera/View to Object . Previous versions did this automatically for you . studio
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
what seems to actually screw thig up with huge scenes is the undo buffer, when setting undo to 0 (which is what i nearly allways do) you can work quite well even with big scenes/objects.. i was even able to collision deform against a 900k poly object ;°) even though that was not really in realtime i admit. but working without undo is not really everybodys dream. regards gunnar Hi Gunnar : Sounded good , but tried it with 300K poly and got the same saddened result at rendertime (see attached) . The plan was a tutorial to show - import .DEM , UV map , render . Bizzare results , with UV Editor/rendering attempts . Oddly , I can easily throw a 300K Poly object around like it was nothing in OpenGL with lame onboard Intel Video . Everything else is a complete buzz-killer (Task-Manager). Time for bed . This party is over . garry attachment: 300k.gif
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
Sounded good , but tried it with 300K poly and got the same saddened result at rendertime (see attached) . The plan was a tutorial to show - import .DEM , UV map , render . I forgot to mention that I can do some things very easily , such as stretch/bend/move the 300K poly mesh . However , it won't render . Trips into the UV Editor are trips into hell . I'm sure these kinds of things can be resolved , as Arjo suggested , by some simple coding techniques . Maybe I'll put away this tutorial until then . RS3D seems sometimes like a Ferrari , sometimes a truck . bye for now garry
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
regarding uv editing: create a new uvset viewmodel and drop it to the uveditor.. close it and reopen.. everything should work then.. its just that rs confuses uv view models with normal view models sometimes causing strange things to happen. Gunnar OK , will try it , maybe tomorrow . So far tonight , no luck and many error messages . UV Set works well though with 80K . Try higher poly's tomorrow . thanks garry
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
Yes that must be mine, I generated that image in World Machine to see if it's better than .bmp for bump/displacement mapping (conversion in HDRshop and some other SW, forgot the details). It's much better indeed: thanks to HDR's floating point high-precision compared to 255 integer steps in the bmp. One more reason for RS to make this an integral part of the software... Hi Mark : Yes , HDRI seems to work very well for displacements . RS wasn't really designed for landscaping but it's so flexible that much is possible if you stretch it a bit ;) I'll dig up some of these projects and re-install World Machine and the conversion SW to see if I can replicate the pipeline. Threw your HDRI displacement project on the server , for now . http://www.studiodynamics.net/list/HDRdisplacement.zip 780KB garry I have a project file (no readme.txt) that shows an HDRI image for displacement mapping . Is that yours ? Where did you get the bitmap ? Any info to share on this ? cheers garry Yes that must be mine, I generated that image in World Machine to see if it's better than .bmp for bump/displacement mapping (conversion in HDRshop and some other SW, forgot the details). It's much better indeed: thanks to HDR's floating point high-precision compared to 255 integer steps in the bmp. One more reason for RS to make this an integral part of the software... Landscapes with a low-res smooth mesh and a hi-res HDR displacement map can be very nice and detailed, and the choking on big meshes is avoided. But avoid to get the camera too close: black-edged artifacts can pop up at the edges :( RS wasn't really designed for landscaping but it's so flexible that much is possible if you stretch it a bit ;) I'll dig up some of these projects and re-install World Machine and the conversion SW to see if I can replicate the pipeline. cheers, Mark
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
A few months ago someone remarked that it's more stable on Linux, so I suspect XP has something to do with the (pseudo-)crashes. It's one reason I want to try RS on Linux, but it will take a lot of time to get familiar with that beast. (and raise the $$$ to buy a new quad-or 8-core machine) Hi Mark : Actually , I find V6-XP to be very stable , indeed . However , I can get it to crash every time with certain things . Usually that's a sign of a small bug . DEM = landscape = big scene = choke :( Yeah, that's one of the pains of RS: even if it manages to render a big scene, editing becomes torture because you have to wait after every action. Yes , indeed , but it's not Ram related (I don't think) . Happens even with 'Render to Polygons' too . They probably invented the handy File Instance tool to circumvent this. Yes , for trees and plants it is very necessary and appreciated . Looking forward to the tut! Let me know if I can help, I did a lot with landscapes in the past, mostly rendered by WorldMachine and converted to .obj by Vue, but also some DEMs. Haven't tested V6 with large landscapes yet, though. -Mark Thanks Mark . Yes , I know you are the Landscape King on this list . Very nice renders and thanks for the project files . I have a project file (no readme.txt) that shows an HDRI image for displacement mapping . Is that yours ? Where did you get the bitmap ? Any info to share on this ? cheers garry
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
Hi Gunnar : Thanks very much for your reply . Feeling a little like I'm the only one who cares about stuff like this , so it's very nice to hear from someone who completely understands . Anyway , let's face it , some of us really love this S/W , so of course we will speak our minds , even if it may cause some small troubles , now and then , here and there . It's best , I think , that we do speak up , and not try to focus on being a very good boy . It's best for the Realsoft3D in the long run , in the bigger picture . I really believe that Realsoft3D would be an absolute killer S/W for the Apple platform , but I think it must have it's rough edges , smoothed out first . Things absolutely _must_ work , first time ... everytime . No excuses . Anyway , here's hoping that RS will make a quantum leap forward with all it's many tools by fixing the coding here and there , and opening itself up to the world much more . cheers Gunnar thanks again for your post garry Hi Garry, with all that about file exchange and import export you are ABSOLUTELY right!! i´m speaking about their importance to RS for nearly as long as im on the beta list and its still one of the worst supported parts of rs.. dont know why but there are plugins for rs for import/export that work 1000% better then rs´s own tools.. there is just a few (matchmoving ) importers in real which really do what they claim the rest ist just halfway useless implementations like 3ds,obj,fbx .. none of them works really .. its really not the best advertisement for rs, especially as today everyone wants to import / export something to other special tools. i fully understand your point! gunnar Speaking : of import/export do we have any means/methods/workarounds for exchanging camera data with other S/W ? I know we can import Icarus/Boujou/RealViz , but what about getting camera data out of RS and into Max or After Effects etc etc etc ? (I'm assuming - not) Thanks studio
Re: Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
Hi Mark : As I said , we love this S/W and so should speak up about things that are not doing RSV6 any good . I wasn't putting it down , just pointing out the obvious flaws that some of the inner circle people seem to love to ignore . Yes V6 has some cool new stuff , especially for architecture . Yes , I think most of the code is there for the .OBJ plugin , but it's not 100% . It worked for you then , so try it now . I decided to write a tutorial on .DEM import and rendering . Brought in one single 3/4 Million faces .DEM and RS choked so bad I had to keep shutting it down via Task Manager . I have a Quad core with 4 Gigs of ram , but the amount of Ram was not the issue at all . RS never consumed more than 20% of the available ram . I just don't think RSV6 is that optimised for large scenes , even still . Hey , by all means go 64Bit and 32 Gigs of ram , but don't be surprised if it only helps a little , and not a lot . For instance , load the sample scene Samples/scene_template/ island project . It's 10,000 faces and RS handles it OK . It traces OK with this Quad . Now , smooth the SDS mesh and it's 40,000 faces . RS goes very slow now . 40K is nothing nowadays . Turn off displace- ment rendering and it renders in less than 2 minutes and does look good , but no joy to work with . 750 MB's of Ram used ! Some S/W is optimised for million polygon scenes , some are not . That , I can accept . I have a very hard time accepting that some tools that are years old still do not work right . cheers garry It's best , I think , that we do speak up , and not try to focus on being a very good boy . It's best for the Realsoft3D in the long run , in the bigger picture . Hi Garry list, True. I've always liked the software but I had my share of hairpulling too. I had high hopes of the advertized FBX support, but - correct me if I'm wrong - it's only basic geometrics, no textures. Is it so much to ask for a few fully supported formats, including textures and animation? It would grant RS access to completely new niches of customers. Of course file exchange should get top priority now. That, and sheer stability and the ability to handle 'big' projects smoothly, without choking too early. The .obj support was a big step, I managed to import Ivy generated .obj files including UV and textures, but forgot the details... then there is this obscure 3ds+ plugin that's only hinted at somewhere in the forum. It's not enough, it's getting stale. First things first: stability, file exchange, polish the old V4 tools and their docs (like UVImage). But despite all that I'm really happy with some of the new V6 tools (good boy!), especially the Building tool which I've used extensively the past few months. The Plant tool is really nice too, but extremely resource-hungry. And I couldn't live without VSL ;) Next thing to try: running RS on a 64bit Linux quadcore machine with lots of RAM, I hope that will lead to less freezes/crashes/blank screens than my current XP box, and will enable me to render old complex plants without much hassle. -Mark H
Re: .OBJ IMPORT/EXPORT - Buggy ?
I think the Obj exporter should export .mtl files to make it possible to export material definitions. Basically VSL is out of the scope, V3 materials are pretty close to optimal. Some subset of VSL might be doable though, as in textures/constants [edit] Sorry , but you 2 nit-wits must be having hammer-fights for breakfast . First of all , the RS .OBJ Import/Exp module does not work . Simple . If it did work , then we could easily export material definitions via the 'UV-Image' Tool's ability to 'Evaluate' and create .bmp's. This is what Vesa's Flash Video is trying to say ... how can you guys not understand that ? (oh ya , the hammer fights) Just back-tracked to some old Icarus (freeware) experiments with .OBJ export , and those objects import perfectly into 3D-Exploration . So , it's not broken in RS ... it just doesn't work . Kill Me ! studio
Re: .OBJ IMPORT/EXPORT - Buggy ?
Arjo : I have to redefine the dummy materials. I never found it a big deal to drop a new texture object in the material editor. The purpose of this thread was to determine if the .OBJ module was possibly not working at 100% . I think we both agree it isn't , so maybe it could be mentioned on the beta-list . The code appears to be there - not executing . I think the Obj exporter should export .mtl files to make it possible to export material definitions. As far as the interchanging of material definitions between programs go , Timo already answered your question and also provided links to exactly how that is being accomplished in other S/W's through the .MTL format (COL/SPEC/TRANS/BUMP via .TGA/BMP is also an option) . garry For all the other possibilities to create materials I can't imagine how you could exchange them. Building materials is so very different in various applications. Each one has its own possibilities. So how would you want to exchange material features from a certain application to Realsoft when it doesn't support those features? Arjo
Can We Export RS3D Camera Data ?
Speaking : of import/export do we have any means/methods/workarounds for exchanging camera data with other S/W ? I know we can import Icarus/Boujou/RealViz , but what about getting camera data out of RS and into Max or After Effects etc etc etc ? (I'm assuming - not) Thanks studio
Re: .OBJ IMPORT/EXPORT - Buggy ?
Hi Garry, The Obj. Exporter is not broken. But you must set UV coords to per face uv cords. I don't understand why this is not the default setting though Arjo. Hi Arjo : I did ! I followed the example in this (very nice!) Flash Video . http://www.nic.fi/~vesamesk/texture_export.htm Just look at the .gif attached to previous mail and you will see how RS does not have the proper VSL shader coding . I circled the missing part in red . Maybe the .OBJ Importer is the culprit ? The Exporter does create a folder 'root/textures' , but the texture residing in that folder does not get applied via VSL when imported . Import the .OBJ I attached and you will see what I mean . Seriously , something is broken there , I think . Perhaps Vesa used the much-sought-after V6 Demo for his tutorial ? garry Bernie : Is the .OBJ Import/Export broken for SDS Objects with Per Face textures ? (for instance , created by UV-Image) I tried the same settings Vesa uses in his tree-export Flash tutorial , but with a simple object it will import geometry , but no texture file included . (see .GIF) http://www.nic.fi/~vesamesk/texture_export.htm Here's the original simple SDS Sphere (50KB link below) , http://www.studiodynamics.net/uv/UV_image_tut_proj.zip Attached are the Exported .OBJ object/texture after the SDS object has been Face-Mapped via UV-Image . Not even a shred of info in the Manual about how-to import/export _Anything . No info about the .OBJ loader . Seems odd to me that Vesa would create a tutorial about exporting SDS Face-Mapped trees , when the .OBJ Loader or Exporter is broken . Maybe I'm doing something wrong ? Also , the imported .OBJ will not show up in the UV Editor . Thanks In Advance studio
Re: .OBJ IMPORT/EXPORT - Buggy ?
Oh ok, I'm sorry. I guess this is not a bug but a shortcoming of the exporter. Hi Arjo : No , the Importer too . I have done a couple of test imports with textured .OBJ's _from_ 3D Exporation (very old) and they also import without any means to browse for those textures . .OBJ's imported into 3D Exploration-demo (except for RS .OBJ's) come in showing that they have textured mappings , and the user just needs to browse and add it . I think it would be very easy to have the RS .OBJ importer build the VSL Texture so that all a user would have to do is browse for the file too . (see attached .GIF) I think the Obj exporter should export .mtl files to make it possible to export material definitions. I'd settle for an .OBJ exporter that just simply exported texture information . I'm still confused as to why Vesa would create a tute that shows him exporting texture info , when the texture info is not actually exported . This makes no sense at all . You say it's not a bug , but I'd say that it is most definitely not working properly . Call it incomplete coding if you want , but it is simply not right . http://www.nic.fi/~vesamesk/texture_export.htm cheers garry attachment: import_1.gif
Re: New Tutorial Uploaded -- SDS Texturing Using The UV-Image Tool
http://www.studiodynamics.net/uv/uv_image_tut.html Forum thread is here : http://tinyurl.com/49lvo7 Great (and big) job Garry, very inspirational! A few times you mention 'Map2Image' when you mean 'Map2Obj', but that's nitpicking. Thanks, greatly appreciated, Mark H Thanks very much Mark : Ooops ! Yes , that's a good find . Thank you for pointing it out . garry
New Tutorial Uploaded -- SDS Texturing Using The UV-Image Tool
Long tutorial , but any mistakes noticed and reported (preferably here) , would be greatly appreciated . http://www.studiodynamics.net/uv/uv_image_tut.html Forum thread is here : http://tinyurl.com/49lvo7 studio
Re: model library
Hi Bernie : As you well know, I dedicated weeks, months even to that site, trying to get weekly emails out, drum up contests / participants, articles, interesting content etc. Yes , I know you put a lot of effort into many things RS3D related . When I complain about how dead the Info site is , it's not directed at you since I think you have washed your hands of it . I had great expectations for the site and RS.. We can only hope that things will pickup and the glory days return .. :) I think it will take a lot more than hope . It will take a couple of people that RS likes a lot , who have convinced RS that they are capable and devoted enough to try and slap the paddles on it . RS is way too busy . The advanced people we had are gone . They are using other S/W for their business too , which is also very busy . We can hope , of course . However , it's 2008 and Christ , also, is still missing . garry G'day Garry - Are you saying the RS Info site _IS_ dynamic ? I'm guessing in the same way the very old Real3D FTP site was ? (IE : not very) long story. But yes - its a dynamic backend - ie Postnuke (same as forum) vs static HTML pages that I had to update manually to add content. The whole idea of the daemon was so people could add content there themselves vs emailling to me and uploading. As you well know, I dedicated weeks, months even to that site, trying to get weekly emails out, drum up contests / participants, articles, interesting content etc. But in the end, life got busy. Family came along, building own house from scratch solo, my business took off and time became a highly precious commodity (and still is) Hence the site was handed over to others with the hope that they could continue the tradition. I had great expectations for the site and RS.. We can only hope that things will pickup and the glory days return .. :) Regards Bernie
Re: 3D puzzles - Oh , The Joy !!! was : time wasting and money, ideas ;-)
it just overflew your mail and found you were unable to get fluids simulated in blender into v6 ? i guess v6 should be able to import obj-sequences via the file instance.. hope that works ;°) gunnar Hi Gunnar : Yes , I read somewhere that the import problem was solved . However , this is only half the problem (of course) . It would not be an authentic 3D puzzle if everything went smooth . The 3D puzzle still remains ... how do we insert 'wave10.obj' into the animation at 'frame #10' ? This is the true beauty of the realsoft . Why buy a jig-saw puzzle that can be solved in a matter of a few months ? The Realsoft offers puzzles that can go on for weeks/months/ years/versions/service packs/... It is a fool who wastes their money on Cinema and LW . Those puzzles can be solved in their forums , easily . It is only the Realsoft that provides your best 'bang-for-buck' . Thanks for the reminder . garry
Re: model library
Bernie : RS made the site open for users to add tutorials / models and content as I wanted from the start. (Dynamic vs static) Are you saying the RS Info site _IS_ dynamic ? I'm guessing in the same way the very old Real3D FTP site was ? (IE : not very) I asked 1 year ago in the forum , about possibly putting together a collection of RS shaders , and the Info site was mentioned , but when I got there , it looked like a Ghost Town . I think right now the RS Forum would be better suited , since we could start a thread and provide a link to models . The link could of course point to the FTP files at the RS Info site . The Forum is about as Dynamic as you can get , but still , it is mostly dead anyway . I think the only way to breathe life into the bee hive would be if someone took the reins of the RS Info site , updated it often and posted News Letters here ... like in the old days . Of course , there really isn't much news anyway ... BTW , how's life in the new digs ? Cheers garry I tried in vain a few years back to get the Render Daemon into something of a RS repository. I tried to consolidate the then FTP into an online database of files, make it an interactive forum for the community. I handed the reigns over to RS in late 2004, and the site is now hosted under: http://www.realsoft.info/ RS made the site open for users to add tutorials / models and content as I wanted from the start. (Dynamic vs static) The models are still there - under DOWNLOADS now. If it is, let me know as I've done a few more aircraft models since I passed on the last lot:) Excellent ! Well you can now upload to the site yourself :) I just wish the site would have more community interaction and use. Looking at the site now, I see that there are few if any new models / content been added to the site since I handed it over in 2004 :( Regards, Bernie VRgrafix.com.au
Re: 3D puzzles - Oh , The Joy !!! was : time wasting and money, ideas ;-)
Hey , could you do a little editing before posting a huge mail ? Thanks . Sorry Garry, but I can't figure out what point you're trying to make. You speak with aesthetically pleasing combinations of words and sentences but I can't figure out what you're actually trying to achieve by doing so. LeeE Well Lee , fear not . This mail of mine was actually , yet another attempt at making a simple point . Usually that takes 3 or 4 mails, so I think by the time 'Simple Point-V3-sp4' makes it to the list you may have a better idea . garry I understand your desire . I felt the same way ay one time , and here's what I did . - Discovered that 'Blender' has built-in Fluid Dynamics . - D/L'd Blender , found the fluid tutorials , tried them . - Found Blender's Fluid Dynamics worked beautifully and easily . - Used the Export Meshes as .OBJ's option to export to RSV5 . - Found that RSV5 could not auto-import a series of 3D objects . - Found there was no animation method for Insert .obj #10 at frame #10 - Asked here and on forum for solution , but users found no solution . - Discovered a 3D magazine with the fully-functional 'RealFlow' ! - Waited for the V6 release which supports 'Realflow' import . - Purchased V6 . - 'Realfow' import was non-functional in the initial release of V6 . I do surrender . Better things to spend time on , anyway . However , I would still suggest that you check out Blender's very cool Fluid Simulation Tools . They are fun and easy . You will have no fun with RS and Fluid Simulation , unless you Really Do Actually Dig 3D Puzzles ... if so , you'll have the time of your life with RS ! As I tried to tell you earlier , the bleeding edge is called that for a reason . It is not for sane people . The thing with your Scripting plugin , was that there was actually a light at the end of the tunnel . Little by little you made progress that everyone could enjoy , eventually . Banging your head against the wall , trying to do something with S/W that was never designed for your goals , is not a healthy way to spend your free time (in my opinion) . Again , not saying that it is very impossible to do . I think with enough experience gained , using metaballs and the built-in Sim tools of RS , that a person could actually come up with an animation that looks half-decent . However , why bother , when you can D/L Blender for free , and begin to see incredible results in one single day ? You could do -single .obj import , then manually insert .obj #10 in frame #10 , so that you can raytrace the frames in RS and assemble the animation frames in Virtual Dub . You could Build in Blender and Render in RS (like I had planned) and do it in much , much less time than trying to topple the leaning tower of Pisa with your cranium . Trust me . garry
Re: procedural concrete, rusty iron
Garry, Store your water in a Revigator! A radioactive jar to energize and revitalize the bodily fluids, and get crazy new ideas every day ;) http://periodictable.com/Elements/092/index.html , scroll down halfway. Yum-Yum . Not saying it's impossible , but my Sherpa is not giving the thumbs-up . Wait a minute, maybe I was dragging in too much at once, causing confusion. Realflow has nothing to do with VSL as far as I know. Still have to try the Realflow import... Get the V6 Demo . More madness to follow - maybe in 1986 I ate too much spinach after Chernobyl ;) -Mark Popeye would be proud of you . (Nyuck-Nyuck) garry
Re: sorry.. but what are fluids in realsoft ? :-)
Hi Carlo, yes, of course:-) I would like to build some fluids or simulations with Realsoft 3D. There was a simple animation scene Ihave built some weeks ago, where I wanted to make water or fluids in a bassin, splashing a sphere in it and so on... - Somebody has said it is not possible to build such things with the basic instrument of realsoft, but I didn't believe that:-))) best regards, Frank Brübach Hi Frank : So many things are possible , but the real question , is how much time do you have to try and get it close , then to perfect it ? They call it the Bleeding Edge for a reason . Got time to waste ? How about writing some more cool scripts ? We desperately need something that will do hair and I think your Nurbs Helper Pro is practically there already . No ? Wasn't there a similiar thing from K-UDA that had collision detection built into it ? Or did I see that somewhere else ? Cheers garry
Re: procedural concrete, rusty iron
Hi Mark, This is really a very clever idea! I guess selection on objects should be possible. Maybe how the selective lighting works. Arjo . Where are you guys getting your drinking water ? You know , the Soviets would routinely push barges full of radioactive material directly into the Sea/Ocean/Toilets/Cabbage Soup . Desalination is an awesome invention , but it fails at the atomic level . Always drink/shower/bathe/swim/skip stones/- water-ski/scuba-dive/shark-hunt/ with imported bottled H2O . Then again , 3D puzzle solving is actually a natural, human- nature trait of sorts . Climbing Mount Everest . Confronting the Chinese . Tilting at windmills . Renderman to VSL . VSL to Renderman . Scripting . Using Realflow to scope VSL onto surfaces may actually be taking it to a whole new level , indeed . Not saying it's impossible , but my Sherpa is not giving the thumbs-up . Personally , I liked Frankolino's neat idea of rolling balls down a wild slide , and then having the balls 'splash' into a body of (radioactive?) liquid meta-balls . That radioactive water could leave a green slime on all the stuff it splash's on , slowly dripping down onto the cock- roaches ... glowing trails all the way to Britney's Box . Drink up ! (keep the insanity coming) garry
Re: SDS Vertex Controls
dont know if it has allready been posted, but the free mode allows you to set the rounding via a slider, so a value from nearly sharp to as round as possible can be chosen.. since free rounding is essentually just a hidden bevel. catmull clark roundings (edge creases) do not allow technically to be smoothed by sliders so their implementation in real is just sharp or smooth or round edges.. free rounding slider is to be found in the objects properties.. hope it helps. best regards Gunnar Hi Gunnar : Ah , OK . I see the slider now . The rest is understood . Thanks garry RS applies suedo Catmull/Clark vertex/edge transforms via pre-determined ... 1) Free 2) Semi-sharp 3) Sharp 4) Rounded I'm not knowledgable enough to know if the transition from free to rounded is a linear one , and it doesn't really matter for my point anyway (below) . Is there a patent that prevents the use of a 0-1 'Slider Control' on the interface that would allow a user to vary the amount of roundness ? To vary the amount of freeness and sharpness ? Could this not be applied as an option ? Why are we Locked into an all-or-nothing mentality ? (yes , I know there are many tricks to use to get this effect) If the transition between _is_ actually a fairly linear one , then why not a 5th option ? (see below) 5) Floating (may not be linear is probably logarithmic) 0.0 - 'Super Free' .25 - 'Free' .75 - 'Rounded' 1.0 - 'Super Rounded' garry
SDS Vertex Controls
List is quiet so I'll repost this : * RS applies suedo Catmull/Clark vertex/edge transforms via pre-determined ... 1) Free 2) Semi-sharp 3) Sharp 4) Rounded I'm not knowledgable enough to know if the transition from free to rounded is a linear one , and it doesn't really matter for my point anyway (below) . Is there a patent that prevents the use of a 0-1 'Slider Control' on the interface that would allow a user to vary the amount of roundness ? To vary the amount of freeness and sharpness ? Could this not be applied as an option ? Why are we Locked into an all-or-nothing mentality ? (yes , I know there are many tricks to use to get this effect) If the transition between _is_ actually a fairly linear one , then why not a 5th option ? (see below) 5) Floating (may not be linear is probably logarithmic) 0.0 - 'Super Free' .25 - 'Free' .75 - 'Rounded' 1.0 - 'Super Rounded' garry
Re: Let it Bleed (and bleed and bleed ...)
You remember correctly , Arjo . Not a big fan of anything that makes me crawl in a very particular manner . I'm pro- bably more of a Z-Brush kind of guy but I can't afford it. The reason I'm concentrating on SDS now was simply to learn how to bake lighting and textures for the new RS Viewer . It's been anything , but fun . Weeks and weeks of it . My (current) beef is with the texturing process that RS has for SDS objects . I'm quite sure that if RS would take a look at it , it could be greatly improved . Whatever . I see lots of mails complaining about all sorts of issues. Especially in the beta section of course. So don't think we take things for granted. Arjo . Well , I hope so , and hope the service pack will solve most of the simple issues . However , the trend we've seen in past versions has always been to pile on the new features , and be damned if they work correctly , or if the Doc's are updated . I don't think that is ever going to change . I don't think RS is very concerned about new users . I think they are coding for a certain group of people who are more than willing to learn all the workarounds and the tools that aren't documented properly . I think RS is content to be seen as a high-end app that is keeping up with the Big Boys as far as toolsets go . They are , but usability is suffering in the process . The lack of complaints from the advanced users only helps to fuel the fire for the big push forward , instead of a little break to catch some breathe and take an assessment . Enough about that , here's a question RS applies suedo Catmull/Clark vertex/edge transforms via pre-determined ... 1) Free 2) Semi-sharp 3) Sharp 4) Rounded I'm not knowledgable enough to know if the transition from free to rounded is a linear one , and it doesn't really matter for my point anyway (below) . Is there a patent that prevents the use of a 0-1 'Slider Control' on the interface that would allow a user to vary the amount of roundness ? To vary the amount of freeness and sharpness ? Could this not be applied as an option ? Why are we Locked into an all-or-nothing mentality ? (yes , I know there are many tricks to use to get this effect) If the transition between _is_ actually a fairly linear one , then why not a 5th option ? (see below) 5) Floating (may not be linear is probably logarithmic) 0.0 - 'Super Free' .25 - 'Free' .50 - 'Rounded' 1.0 - 'Super Rounded' cheers thanks for your reply garry
Let it Bleed (and bleed and bleed ...)
1) Select an SDS Face and change it's Color Attribute (Property Window/Spec Tab/Selected Points/Attribute/Color - pulldown) 2) Change it's default color to 255,255,255 (for example) 3) Render - geez the color has bled out into neighbouring faces . 4) Select the 'Clear' control (next to the 'Attribute' field) 5) DragDrop a material to those same Faces 6) Render and we see the Texture does not bleed out , but is confined to just those faces . So , what is the concept behind this bug/feature ? Useful , of course , but why is it limited to 'Attributes' , and why don't the Face-Mapped materials have this bleed-out option ? Why don't 'Attributes' have a contain option ? Is it a bug ? Is it a feature ? Is there an apparent contradiction ? Is there a missing Control check-box ? Is there anybody out there ? studioattachment: bleed.gif
Re: Let it Bleed (and bleed and bleed ...)
Useful , of course , but why is it limited to 'Attributes' Is it a bug ? Is it a feature ? Feature It's useful for weight maps and other related things Matthias Octagonal shaped wheels are very useful for slowing a vehicle . My point was that it needs another option control added in order to maintain a certain consistency . garry
Re: Let it Bleed (and bleed and bleed ...)
My point was that it needs another option control added in order to maintain a certain consistency . Hi Garry, Maybe you should investigate names like Catmull and Clark, before complaining about SDS objects. 2 questions : 1) Why must you always talk to me like I'm the dummy ? 2) Why must I always repeat myself ? You could find them in the Wikipedia for instance. This might help to understand SDS objects better. The concept is simple . The Realsoft application of that concept seems (to me) a very nice , compact approach . What I have been addressing is a sub-topic of that approach, the texturing of SDS objects . Still , years later, this area is very rough around the edges and could use refinements . Everything has its price. When you want the benefits of a low poly control cage with a smooth hi poly model as your final object, you'll have to deal with certain characteristics. Arjo. This is exactly the attitude that plagues this community . If the small inexactitudes I've discovered , were pointed out years ago , they would have been remedied out by now . Many of the pain in the ass nuisances that you guys have chosen to ignore , are still there biting new users in the butt . Take this idiotic tendency , one step further , and we have advanced users , still choosing to ignore bogus interface glitches to the point of grabbing for straws to defend them . Sorry , but if I see something out of place , I'll point it out . If RS chooses to leave duly noted inconsistencies in the program , so be it , ... who cares ? However , if someone new comes along and makes suggestions for a higher performance methodology , I don't think I'll be telling him he doesn't know what he's talking about . In fact , I might go crazy and actually post a mail saying something like , yes , I noticed that myself . garry
Me Really Like-ee !
Here's (yet another) feature you guys really like : In Shaded OpenGL ; --- When a resized object's handles disappear inside the object , all you have to do is : 1) Stop and - Switch back and forth from 'wireframe mode' 3) Stop and - Zoom out and the 'Handles' will seem to expand 2) Stop and - Simply resize the 'Handles' as you re-model -Main Menu/Transformation/Scale Objects/(drop-down menu)Handles -Main Menu/Transformation/Size/(drop-down menu)Handles suck-the-life-out-of-me-harder whoa ... whoa , hang on , this just in : Aliens from an advanced civilisation just popped by and suggested the 'Handles' maintain a certain amount of visibility outside the object at all times . Those pale skinny bald headed bastards suggested : - Handles _could_ grow with a resized object(insane!) -Textures _could_ grow with push/pulled 'faces' (sacrilege!) (Matthias respond's) Aliens : 1) Are cracked 2) Smoke crack 3) Sniff cracks 4) Stepped on a crack and broke their mother's back 5) Cracked the code and forgot to write it down 6) Liked those procedural crack textures from the mid 90's 7) Left their home planet when a giant asteroid cracked it 8) Ran back to their ships and hid at the first crack of dawn 9) 7 years bad luck when Moe cracked a mirror over their heads studio
Mapping a Photograph To A Single Face (and a BUG too)
I thought I would use a simple example of mapping a photo to an SDS Face in this latest Tutorial I'm doing . (the Bug is at the bottom of the mail) This quote from the manual : The easiest way to attach materials to faces is using drag drop. The manual cleverly shows a 'Face Mapping' example but using a 'Marble' texture , not a photo . This doesn't work for simply adding a photo to the single face . RS maps it as though the Face is only supposed to have some of the photo on it . Below the Marble Mapping example is an example of how to more accurately map images using Map2Object . The other option is to open up the 'UV Editor' and drag points until the photo fits (if a face is visible there) Anyway , seems to me that there should be some very simple to use option of just selecting a material and have it mapped to a single face without having to use Map2Object . *** BUG - 1) Switch to Top View 2) Create an SDS Polygonal cube 3) Switch to 'Face Edit Mode' 4) Select the top face and drop a texture onto it 5) OpenGL shows it has been mapped to the bottom face 6) Rendering shows it has actually been mapped to the top studio
Re: Mapping a Photograph To A Single Face (and a BUG too)
Forgot to mention the 'UV Set' Option (dragging a photo to the corresponding 'UV Set') Works well for simple objects , but for mapping a Sphere object , with a different photo for every face ... garry I thought I would use a simple example of mapping a photo to an SDS Face in this latest Tutorial I'm doing . (the Bug is at the bottom of the mail) This quote from the manual : The easiest way to attach materials to faces is using drag drop. The manual cleverly shows a 'Face Mapping' example but using a 'Marble' texture , not a photo . This doesn't work for simply adding a photo to the single face . RS maps it as though the Face is only supposed to have some of the photo on it . Below the Marble Mapping example is an example of how to more accurately map images using Map2Object . The other option is to open up the 'UV Editor' and drag points until the photo fits (if a face is visible there) Anyway , seems to me that there should be some very simple to use option of just selecting a material and have it mapped to a single face without having to use Map2Object . *** BUG - 1) Switch to Top View 2) Create an SDS Polygonal cube 3) Switch to 'Face Edit Mode' 4) Select the top face and drop a texture onto it 5) OpenGL shows it has been mapped to the bottom face 6) Rendering shows it has actually been mapped to the top studio
Re: Mapping Woe's
As I also mentioned last night , the 'Unified Tools' offers 'mesh mapping' , but they are broken , and still no reply as to what function they are _supposed_ to provide ... Mesh mapping Matthias very funny Finally found 'Mesh Mapping' buried in the manual . It's in the Material Mapping Objects section , except there is no Mesh Mapping in the Material Mapping Objects section of the interface . Again , perfect . As I said in previous mails , yes , now make it so for SDS objects . Simple , but ... garry
Re: Mapping Woe's
(It's not broken on my side) Rectangular is not broken , obviously , but some things in there are not 100% . It's an area of the interface that has some depth , and so should be tested in depth for bugs before you say Bravo!.. 1. Use Mesh-Mapping ONLY for Nurbs-Surfaces ! Only for Nurbs ? Confusing , since : 1) Some things work with SDS obejcts (and some things do not work with anything) . 2) The single example in the User Manual' say's create a sphere . It doesn't mention that it is only for Nurbs Spheres . 3) The 'Reference Manual' refers to it as being a part of the 'Material Mapping Objects' Section , which it is not . 4) The 'Mesh Mapping' Tools appear to have been updated since the original set in V4.5(?) , but the manual has not been . This is actually a perfect example of what I am discovering with V6 . That is to say : 1) the manual is sometimes - not-updated 2) the manual is sometimes - missing important info 3) Some tools appear as though they haven't been used in years The Swiss Army Knife of 3D , can begin to look more like a WWII Swiss Army Truck , when actually examined at close range . OK let's start: Matthias No , thanks , but let's not . Perhaps instead Realsoft inc can start to look instead . These 'Mesh Mapping' tools hold a lot of potential but it appears they have been partially developed , then once again , dropped in the rush to develop more things to write on the shiny new Box that will ship to the customer . Anyway , I've tested it out many times since I first mentioned it here on the list . Did not know it was restricted to 'Nurbs' . So , now with REPEAT MODE \ON , I say again we are part of the way there with 'Mesh Mapping' so let's take it all the way and provide a means of working with mapping SDS Objects with a _3D_ Mapping system too . Such a simple concept ... garry
Re: Isosurface 1
...Like this for example... (f_checker.jpg) i used it in a AVI file (expl.jpg) on my site... benefit is a short render time and suitable forms. andre * Nice , looks very good . POV ? Can you create an example using various noises , but in a controled way ? (clouds , smoke) What about liquids ? Any examples ? thanks garry
Re: Mapping Woe's
I followed your instructions but it does work for me. Well when the attached picture shows what you want to achieve. But I don't have version 6.1.3 around. Betatesting continues Otherwise send me your file to see what it looks like overhere. Arjo. Hi : Yes , same here . I asked how to fill the mapping rectangle with the smaller squares , not just fill the upper left-corner . Same when a user tries to isolate a procedural mapping to certain areas of a ... 1) Cylinder 2) Sphere 3) Cone 4) Cube 5) Etc No isolated mapping of the Procedural textures , that I can find . If a user checks 'Finite X' 'Finite Y' , the 'Width' , 'Height' 'Depth' fields no longer work , but the 'Scale' field does , sort of , but not the way one would like it to . Finite Mapping does offer a stripe , as a result , but that's about it . I would think 'Finite' would mean , do not tile it , but limit it to this area . 'Scale' , would then mean : limit it to this area , but scale it (inside this area) . thanks garry Well , unless I'm doing this wrong , somethings not right here . Tried various analytic mappings and they all seem to have the same results with this problem . 1) Create an SDS Rectangle 2) Map a Parallel 'Checkers' texture to the center area of the rectangle 3) Re-size the checkers by changing the 'Scale' field to : .2 .2 .2 4) Limit the mapping to just that area by clicking 'Finite X' 'Finite Y' Obviously this doesn't work . I hate to ask , but what's the workaround ? studio
Re: Mapping Woe's
Garry , maybe this ?? andre No , actually . sorry (read previous mails) garry
Re: Mapping Woe's
Yes , same here . I asked how to fill the mapping rectangle with the smaller squares , not just fill the upper left-corner . Hm, this is not what you asked specifically. The behavior of the finite XY is what I'm used to, so I didn't think of what you want to achieve. Sorry , was in too big of a hurry . To get what you want you must change the material (don't forget to reset the scale of the mapping object to 1, but keep finite XY set): -Open the checker material advanced tab. -Insert a Linear object as the first line in the Surface Properties -Change the output to Map Coords -To get the 0.2 scale: change the multiply values of the linear object to 5 5 5 Now you get a checker pattern inside the mapping area. Arjo. Thanks for the useful reply . garry
Re: Mapping Woe's
Insert on top of the Checker -Material a Linear VSL object... have a look at the *.gif file. Yes , thanks for the reply project file . I think the coding should be added with the C++ , not the VSL . It makes no sense to me that RSV6 would re-size the texture , then move it to the top-left corner . As I said ... I would think 'Finite' would mean , do not tile it , but limit it to this area . 'Scale' , would then mean : limit it to this area , but scale it (inside this area) . Don't you guys ever get tired of workarounds ? The shirt is a RS file v6.1... Hope it's helpy, too. Yes , I like how you've used the 'UV Sets' . I do like 'UV Sets' and wish there were more about them in the manual , however ... REPEAT MODE (\ON) What would be nice is a 'mesh-based' texture mapping , instead of the primitives we have now . So yes , as the manual states - UV Sets are SDS based . OK , so now we are part way there , except we cannot move our 'UV Sets' in an intuative way (is anything intuative in RS?). Your shirt project is a great example of how nice it would be if we could 'Point Edit' the 'UV Sets' . We can delete points - we can do some things with the 'UV Set' , but we cannot even move the 'UV Sets' from side to side . It blows my mind , minute by minute ... I'm 90% finished this 'UV Image' tutorial and have decided to bail on trying to suggest easy ways to work with UV mappings in RS . It's a sad state of affairs , I think , that we can easily create 'UV Sets' but are hamstrung , as far as working with them in 3D , and have to go into that ridiculous 'UV Editor' , instead . ... but , hey ! That's just me . The checker-mod material should show how to modify the checker-size. Have closer look at the VSL which generates the checkers. There is no repeat at all. If you don't like my solution, maybe a modulo by 1 is the right way to generate :-? Matthias Yep , it's fine thanks . garry I followed your instructions but it does work for me. Well when the attached picture shows what you want to achieve. But I don't have version 6.1.3 around. Betatesting continues Otherwise send me your file to see what it looks like overhere. Arjo. Hi : Yes , same here . I asked how to fill the mapping rectangle with the smaller squares , not just fill the upper left-corner . Same when a user tries to isolate a procedural mapping to certain areas of a ... 1) Cylinder 2) Sphere 3) Cone 4) Cube 5) Etc No isolated mapping of the Procedural textures , that I can find . If a user checks 'Finite X' 'Finite Y' , the 'Width' , 'Height' 'Depth' fields no longer work , but the 'Scale' field does , sort of , but not the way one would like it to . Finite Mapping does offer a stripe , as a result , but that's about it . I would think 'Finite' would mean , do not tile it , but limit it to this area . 'Scale' , would then mean : limit it to this area , but scale it (inside this area) . thanks garry Well , unless I'm doing this wrong , somethings not right here . Tried various analytic mappings and they all seem to have the same results with this problem . 1) Create an SDS Rectangle 2) Map a Parallel 'Checkers' texture to the center area of the rectangle 3) Re-size the checkers by changing the 'Scale' field to : .2 .2 .2 4) Limit the mapping to just that area by clicking 'Finite X' 'Finite Y' Obviously this doesn't work . I hate to ask , but what's the workaround ? studio
Re: Mapping Woe's
The checker-mod material should show how to modify the checker-size. Matthias Sorry , forgot to mention about the stretching here of the checks texture . Perfect example of what I was saying last night about an option to split/push/pull/stretch faces , and have the texture follow intuatively (there's that word again) . Perhaps the option to have the 'UV Sets' follow ? No idea really , and it's out of my league , actually ... but there has _GOT_ to be a better way . As I also mentioned last night , the 'Unified Tools' offers 'mesh mapping' , but they are broken , and still no reply as to what function they are _supposed_ to provide ... ...and the manual offers very little info - Hey , there's _That_ phrase again . Charlie Don't Surf !!! garry attachment: shirt.gif
Re: ??
Your message was very welcome Garry , but this is what i mean: Why put the UV view properties in the Windows , it is a part of the UV Editor and it is best (speed , avoid of bugs , gain of code and less confused to the user)to be opened by a dialogue box in the view of the editor ?? ...my modesty remark... andre Ah , OK , sorry , I missed your point . However , I disagree with you . Technically , every single solitary window that ships with V6 should be included in this list , simply as a backup in case a user is having trouble locating a window , or just wants to expl- ore and see what every window looks like , or just wants to begin to familiarize themselves with the very elaborate RS interface . cheers good luck experimenting with your meta-surfaces . garry
Arthur C. Clark A Personal Oddity - Revolutionary 3D software
Hi Jean ; Well , what can I say ? It sounds tremendous . It's about time 3D creators had something very new and original . We need a quantum leap , a paradigm ... I wish you luck with your work and your venture . I think it will not be a case of the world beating a path to your door , however . More than likely it will be a case of developers hoping that your commercial results fail . Sincere well wishes garry While we are at it, my revolutionary software I am working on since 4 years is advancing very quickly (because I am unemployed), It 's already working and will be presented to the world in probably 6 months. Some key feature: -- -It's an animation software and can be used for modeling also, testing other softwares and many other use. -Compatible 110% with every renderer/modeler in the world including the future one (as long as we can communicate with them) -takes Zero CPU and Zero memory (even for scenes with billions of objects) -Does not need/have a coordinate system of it's own. -Will change the way we animate forever and eliminate the need for scripting with only one magic click -There is no feature in this software but it is extremely powerfull (in fact unlimited) -It is future proof, so it's impossible to sell upgrade or new version. Buy once, use forever. -Will help the creation of trees, city, animation of crowd without any feature or parameters. -The software can call itself to modify itself. -I am working on something (I found something wonderful) that will change the way software are designed forever. -This software takes 5 minutes to master (the interface is almost empty since there is no feature). -And the user interface is also very different than what we are used to. -The secret is in the design. -Make some animation and modeling difficult in other software, more than easy in this one. -Even the Load and Save function does not work like other software. In the future I intend to use realsoft as a modeler for my own use, but will use Sunflow for rendering. My software will sell for 120$ probably but it is for life since improvement are impossible (makes no sense). This thing will be the most powerfull on the market and will stimulate the CG market but hurt others. When it's ready I will share my research and my software to the world, I will tell how it work to anyone who want to listen. I want everyone to copy it. That's why i am not doing any 3D recently, I am coding. If only Realsoft could be used as a stand alone renderer it would be in the race. This thing will not compete with Realsoft because it is totally different, but the result will be similar. Don't worry, when it is ready I will contact Vesa and everyone at Realsoft to explain what it is, so they could, if they find it interesting implement it inside Realsoft. This conversation has not happened. Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws
Re: Texture Mapping SDS - Revisited
if they just tore out the Map2Object tool , I would not miss it at all . Garry, please do not say this again ;-) It's a very handy tool and you really need it for transferring data between channels. If you're going deeper in the rabbits hole, you'll maybe agree, and fall in love with Map2Obj. Yes which is why I then said that it has it's special cases . If you love it's advanced abilities so much , why didn't you write a tutorial about how to use it in this way ? I mean , we most certainly are not going to find it in the manual , right? Map2Obj was long time ago the first RS-Tool to get/set Multi-UVs :-o, it's a grandpa tool. In conjunction with the field evaluator, it is a wow how simple can I do animations tool. OK , but I never asked how simple can I do this animation? I asked about why Map2object combined with the UV Editor was such an absurd tool to use when doing simple UV mapping , and was told that I do not know anything and directed toward absurd tutorials about how to use it properly . Sorry , but advanced users are always thinking of themselves instead of thinking about the new guy who is coming here . That tutorial of Frank Dodd's about mapping a sphere is the most bizarre thing I have ever seen in this community , and totally not like Frank to create such a monster mis-leader . Anyway , I feel a tutorial coming . One that will hopefully help new users avoid 'map2object' (except for special cases) Glad to hear this :-) Matthias It's a tutorial that should have been written in 2004 . The manual provides info but very brief and not in the proper sections . Thus , an excellent 3D puzzle was born and per- petuated by advanced users , once again . Anyway , maybe now that I've made my point I should just join the ranks of advanced users who continually proclaim Oh , it's so easy with Realsoft3D and so I am going to write a tutorial about it now ... ... but of course ... never do . Hey !!! Did you actually read all the way down to here ??? Anyway , good luck with your work . garry
Re: Arthur C. Clark is dead but not his visions - A Personal Oddity
The writer of 2001 and inventor of the satellite is dead. It's weird because i just finished reading the last book of the 4 odyssey 3001 last night. By the way the movie 2001 a space odyssey in Blu-Ray is amazing, it's the blu-ray with the best image quality. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_C._Clarke Jean-Sebastien Perron www.NeuroWorld.ws Sadly missed . I've never read any of his works , and really know very little of him (thanks for the link) . I always-always thought him to be one of the nicest people who ever was beamed out of a Television Set . 2001 is perhaps my favorite too , or at least was for many years . You mention an 'oddity' ? Well , hold onto your hat because I also have a story to tell , about last night , after I got your mail from the server . I was saddened of course , and checked out your Wiki link for some time , reading all the text , but not the links . That was around 10:30 PM on the 18th - Eastern Standard Time . Art had passed just scant hours before . Anyway , I continued my ongoing battle with RS until around 3:00 AM and then my eyes were just too tired to go on , so I grabbed a bite and watched some TV (nothing on) . I live right on the edge of a very old graveyard with the oldest stone just ~18 meters from the edge of my 3rd floor balcony . I make 30 trips a day to that balcony to feed the birds and small wildlife that live very comfortably in and around the graveyard and my building . Here in Niagara it was a very damp , foggy night but I still did my usual 2 trips an hour just to see if I could spot any of the raccoons or possum, or maybe even the coyote that has been hanging around lately . Very quiet last night with everthing probably bedded down due to the drizzle and 5 degree Celcius temperature . I was scanning around anyway but there was absolutely nothing to see ... Until I suddenly noticed a very bright light that seemed to be shining on or coming directly from one of the tombstones . Now , I do believe in ghosts , have had my experiences as a child , but I also know that there are no ghosts in this vicinity , or else I most certainly would have encountered one long before last night (lived here 20 years) . I always assume a logical explanation , of _some_ kind . It was raining , slightly . Polished granite or marble stones can have a very high degree of refectivity , as we all know , especially when wet with rain . Furthermore , it is not uncommon for relatives to place a type of light on a stone that will give off a fairly bright light at night from the energy it has collected all day . We also know that if the angle of the polished stone was just right , it could easily reflect a lightsource back to my bal- cony , which is aprox. 70-80 meters away . I grabbed the 16X power binoculars that I always have at ready to see if there were any clues I might gather , but as I assumed, attempting to use binoc's at night is mostly useless . I did notice that the higher I could stand the more light I was seeing , so grabbed a chair and stood on it on the balcony (and hoped my neighbours were all in bed). Using the binoc's I could actually see that the light was indeed very bright and seemed to somehow come from the very top of one of the tombstones . Unfortunately , I could not get my eyes at an elevation that would really help me see what was going on at the stone's peak . I ate , watched TV , made 10-12 more trips to the balcony to see if I could notice any change but finally gave up and went to bed and told myself that I would simply have to go sometime soon and see if there was a new tombstone (I made a mental note of it's exact location) , or if there was a light placed there , on top . Well it was foggy and drizzly today too , but I easily did locate the exact stone and when my binoc's didn't offer any further clues I hopped the fence and had a look , to see if there were any clues as to what could have caused this odd ,suddenly new, illumination . Walked directly to the stone . It was not new but was from a person who died Noverber 1917 . god-damn-sam !!! Just looked at the Wiki and Art was born in december 1917 - perhaps the very month the stone was erected Whoa ! ... Anyway ... the stone was not shiny , but was very worn and moss covered the stone did not have sharp angles that would reflect back the stone did not have an electroluminescent light on it the stone did have ... carved right into it ... at the very top of it ... a book
Re: Arthur C. Clark is dead but not his visions - A Personal Oddity
Hi garry, as always we are outside the subject of Realsoft, but it's fun Jean-Sebastien Perron Hi Jean : Yes , but with Icarus and RSV6 I could think about doing another little camera-mapping video , featuring the grave- yard next door . What about putting a small wireless camera in your tiny helicopter ? Could that be possible ? Would make for some really awesome camera-mapping video's . Are you finally on high-definition ? Plasma ? Beamer ? LCD ? cheers garry
Texture Mapping SDS - Revisited
(time for some much sought after browny points) Well , after much reading and experimenting with Map2object I have come to the conclusion that RS has included so many options for mapping SDS/Nurbs/Analytic that even if they just tore out the Map2Object tool , I would not miss it at all . The 3D painting section of the manual holds many gems that probably should not be in this part of the manual at all . When I first saw '3D Painting' I assumed it was about using the built-in Air brushing tools , so skipped over it . It's not really , and delves into adding textures to SDS objects with , as I said , many useful tools . The 'Paste Colours Tool' (now named 'Paste RGB') is a very neat little tool that probably doesn't get used a lot , but is there to play with anyway . The most useful tool of all , I think , is the 'UVimage' tool , but certainly not at it's default settings , which really _Must_ be changed from tex maps of 128 x 128 pixels . These don't work , and neither do samplings of '1' when a user is trying to test this tool out . Also , simply 'smoothing' a mesh helps create nicer UV's too . Also required but not mentioned is the use of the 'InitUV' tool to straighten out the wonky default UV's . There's a ton of power here with 'Uvimage' (as the manual say's) but a few little tricks must be performed first in order to get anything close to acceptable . Anyway , I feel a tutorial coming . One that will hopefully help new users avoid 'map2object' (except for special cases) and instead use realtime mapping methods and 'Uvimage' to do SDS texturing . cheers studio
Re: look at this!
http://www.cc.gatech.edu/~phlosoft/photon/ Strictly speaking, it's photon mapping with a Java applet. It's nearly as powerful (and in some cases even more so) as a native application. Right . As the author mentions , it's 75 lines of code (code included right on that web page) for the photon mapping part . When I think of Photon mapping I remember back to the 'WinOsi' raytracer page (very old now) http://www.winosi.onlinehome.de/ They still have a very cool realtime demo , but in the form of a 52KB downloadable executable . Ton's of fun and uses all 4 cores , giving amazing frame rates , even with high AA etc . http://www.winosi.onlinehome.de/Ravi.htm (no Gi however) The Winosi raytracer with photon mapping is still available for free download (140KB) . http://www.winosi.onlinehome.de/Downloads_WinOSi.htm garry
Re: Happy Paddys Day to you lot :) - AIDAN
Hi Aidan : Glad to hear you are getting away for a couple of days . You'll probably be gone by the time this message hits the cyber-space . I prefer to give credit where it's due and forgot to mention that yesterday's stream was viewed via 'Videolan' , the dynamite little multi-codec freware viewer . http://www.videolan.org/ This little beast will do realtime transcoding , serve streams too , and comes with a ton of built-in codecs (so you won't have to install questionable codecs [like QT]) . Great , great little viewer . What S/W did you guys use to stream ? What size pipe ? (etc) Enjoy your getaway ! garry Cheers Gary, Glad you got a look in on the parade live stream - nice to hear it broadcasted out fine. Yip - the Irish were a huge export - not because they wanted to but due to hard economic times, particularly pre 1990's. All my buddies from college etc all left on the plane to the states or OZ. I think I was the only one left here. I suppose I survived here on playing music and working for myself - wasnt easy but got better. Go back then to the mid to late 1800's - huge exporting then due to the potato famine and prison ships to OZ. So Irelands history in the last 200 years or so has been a tale of mass emigration to all corners of the earth and most NOT because they wanted to - more they had to. I will raise a glass to your mum in the next day or so. Myself and caroline are off for two days R R tomorrow, place in west cork called Bantry. Getting away after a lo frenetic weekend of messy gigs - 5 gigs in 4 days. Cheers and slainte, Aidan At 02:52 18/03/2008, you wrote: To see a traditional Irish Town Parade nip over here at about 3:30pm GMT today, Patricks Day ( 18th ): http://www.macroom.ie/patricksdaycam.htm Managed to just catch the beginning of the parade . The streaming was very good . Watched it full screen and it also had 22Khz/16 bit sound ! Unreal ! @ ~ 25KBytes/second . Loved the part at the end where everyone was invited to give big shouts out to friends and relatives around the world . Seems one of Irelands biggest exports is people . Happy Paddys Day to ye all, Shur everyone is Irish today, enjoy a tipple :) Cheers Aidan Thanks , St Paddies was me poor old mum's birthday , so then, I tries to get drunk every year , in her honour , of course ! cheers (this Bud's for you) garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4 and S/W Links
This is a very beautiful tutorial . It almost looks like 'Flash' , the way it loads . What S/W did you use to build it ? (i'm still using notepad) . Typo3 (an open source CMS www.typo3.org) Borders of the thumbs are generated on the serverside via typo3+graphicsmagick+mask. Popup Effect is a extension, which integrates Lightbox http://www.huddletogether.com/projects/lightbox2/ in Typo3. I have to layout it, that it fits to the rest of the website, but not enough time . Matthias Cool . Thanks for the links . I'll have to check them out . Since you are too busy lately to know if it is light outside or dark , here's a link to another really awesome freeware desktop (system tray actually) utility . http://www.singerscreations.com/AboutWeatherWatcher.asp Highly configurable with many options , Weather Watcher is voted a top notch spyware free , freeware utility that can tell you everything from humidity to moon phase . Now when you feel your fangs growing and your claws scratching , you can just check your system tray to see if the moon is full . He has other cool S/W too , like a utility that will launch your website automatically from the CD you burn it too .(hope that makes sense) . Imagine an RS tutorial CD that launches automatically and shows a brief intro of snapshots of all the various tutorials included ? Windows-only , from what I can see . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
so that we could then look at the unwrapped mesh and see how it has been textured ? Did I miss something :-? Something like this. http://the-final.com/rs/UV-Ogl.jpg Matthias Listen ... , Moe : Yes , you missed it every single time I drug you down to the river to drink the red/green/blue water . I'll try again . Look at the attached image (again) . This is a screen cap of the 'UV Coords' in the 'UV Editor' . It is an unwrapped mesh . As you can plainly see , it is untextured . Now , what I asked , originally , was , why not texture this with OpenGL so that we can get instant feedback about how our mesh is being textured , without having to constantly look at the actual model .. try to spin it around etc etc etc ? . If you aren't getting this tiny point , then you must not be understanding any of this whole complete thread . I'll try this one again , too . (look below , not above) . You said it was easy to unwrap a mesh by first desroying all the UV's . You said , (quote) with totally destroyed UVs . So , how do we totally destroy the UV's ? Which button do we push ? What is the process ? How can we achieve this ? Is there a trick ? Do you have a link ? Is it in the manual? Is it only available on the V6 Demo ? Do you have any advice on what a person has to do to duplicate this function ? Do we need ZBrush ? Have you seen the incredible deal on C4D BodyPaint 3D combo ? There is an ugly chinese woman down the hall . Should I throw one into her so that she will translate these mails ? Is anything easy ? Why not ? I bought a new quad-core system . Why ? Do I need it to bang my head against the wall ? Shall I move toward the light ? Is it a train coming ? What have I accomplished this winter ? Nada ? OK . Why ? Is this progress ? No . When is Daddy coming home ? Why are the wolves laughing ? garry attachment: matts-unwrapping.gif
Re: about mapping
Thanks Garry , of course i did'nt make the full tour..(...next i will push F1 !) F1 is basically designed to take you to a place in the reference manual that is related , I think , so F1'ing would not have helped you find that '3D Painting' section . For that you would have had to go into the 'Index' section of the manual , and manually search. RS is build year after year , it could not be discovered in one day. Right . What i already understood is that Vesa and his team build a program just like a swiss knife , able to be used on many ways , Yes , very broad spectrum of tools . Much broader than the doc's seem to indicate . but it's funny to walk in the glass palace searching for the exit. It's a nightmare . However the handicap of a swiss knife is : how many books should be published to cover the entire stuff , for example a few page of the manual could easily be extended to a full manual ... Right . Go into a very large bookstore and see the huge collection of books devoted to Maya-LW-C4D-Max . Literally thousands of tutor- ials , CD's and DVD's included . Video tapes online by the hundreds for sale . For us RS3D users ... Zero ... Zilch ... Zip ... Nada ... Nix . The amount of knowledge available to the new Maya-LW-C4D-Max user is mind boggling . Knowledge is power . The RS3D manual is not small , but considering the amount of included tools , it just seems very small and inadequate . We are thirstier than any Maya user for knowledge and so when we look for info that does not exist it can tend to get very very frustrating . I can't even imagine what the brand new-to-3D user might go through trying to learn RS3D ... If there is a single S/W that desperately needs a very broad manual full of tutorials and included teaching materials ... Even worse is , that in the race to please those clamouring for cutting edge coding , the doc's fall to the wayside , and tools that aren't 100% finished or tested completely , get released anyway . So then a person might start to wonder ... 1) Lightwave is around $1000 USD . 2) Max9 can actually be found for around $1000 USD . 3) Cinema4D with the included Bodypaint3D is around $1000 USD 4) Maya learning is free - Unlimited can be found at $1250 5) After Effects CS3 Pro is around $300 USD . Even a guy like myself , who came to the RS community because all the other 3D S/W's sucked in comparison , begins to compare again , and obviously , they no longer suck . They are very very powerful now , with an endless array of Doc's and tutorials . Knowledge is power ... ... in the RS community too . However , many here seem to use it like sword , always showing how smart they are but never teaching their secrets . Oh well . Let them hang on tight . will agree this challenge ? I guess many of the users are prof's , they did not have the time to write books and do not need too because once the practical exercise done it becomes a routine. Yes , exactly . Those who can , do ! Those who can't , teach . Actually , there were many tutorials written with the original V4 release , but it has slowly tappered off to ... next to nothing . The advanced users who originally contributed to help with the very steep learning curve have moved on , it seems . One thing for sure , a program is never ended , one day the RS swiss knife logo will not be inough ... No , it's enough already . At the rate we are going RSV10 will be released without a manual of any kind , and a hundred new tools . People will stop buying 'Trivial Pursuit' and 'Monopoly' and will D/L the V10 demo and try to actually accomplish something , just for the pure challenge . maybe to be replaced by a cameleon but i think i already saw this on a Linux edition. By the way did you use/ed Linux ?? I start with windows version 3 (past century :-) ) but the last years windows undeceived me many times , reason why i think about Linux. andre I have enough puzzles to solve without delving into Linux . Someday , of course , but the job of teaching myself , yet another facet of this quest to actually render something is more than I can presently bare , I'm afraid . garry
Re: Happy Paddys Day to you lot :) - AIDAN
To see a traditional Irish Town Parade nip over here at about 3:30pm GMT today, Patricks Day ( 18th ): http://www.macroom.ie/patricksdaycam.htm Managed to just catch the beginning of the parade . The streaming was very good . Watched it full screen and it also had 22Khz/16 bit sound ! Unreal ! @ ~ 25KBytes/second . Loved the part at the end where everyone was invited to give big shouts out to friends and relatives around the world . Seems one of Irelands biggest exports is people . Happy Paddys Day to ye all, Shur everyone is Irish today, enjoy a tipple :) Cheers Aidan Thanks , St Paddies was me poor old mum's birthday , so then, I tries to get drunk every year , in her honour , of course ! cheers (this Bud's for you) garry
Re: about mapping
Andre : Actually , that example is also digital . It's covered in the 3D painting section of the F1 help , which also covers a couple of Map2object examples in the 3D Painting section . However that tutorial is bound to get overlooked because it's in a section of the manual that's not listed in the manual's Index that is specific to UV mapping . Well , actually , that's not entirely , correct , is it ? It's listed in the 3D Painting section of the manual , as in ... you can't 3D Paint SDS objects . garry After a tour of mapping systems with RS , i found a good way. This way concerns the import and painting of OBJ files , by good i mean best to this import besides RS gives already an analog lesson: page 258 user manual. After importing there is already a black material icon in the material tab. Dubbel click on it Advanced Wizart Material Surface properties color=Texture. then Mapping recommended mapping parallel. For this moment leave it . Back to the view: Drag the material icon in the view window and set the view to parallel (Right click view window camera uncheck perspective ) Now take a screen shot save and open it in a paint progam , do not change the size but cut the background away. Paint it colors shadows etcand save it. Now back to RS Materials Color=Texture texture file import the finished painted file. check preview. You will now see both images ( the 3D and painted ) superposed but we have now to map the painted to the 3D. Go to Materials UV image type:constant accept. You may now turn the 3D , one remark , to make it full 3D you have to repaint another screen shot from the back of the head this time doing the same job. That's it. I use Coreldraw 11. If somebody is interested i'm ready to make a PDF . But i need time !! andre
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorial #4
Simple head model with totally destroyed UVs, Totally destroyed UV's ? You've got me there . Shall I bite ? then used a Cylnder Map and Map2Obj no voodoo No voodoo , but not simple , and certainly not intuative . I've included the result image , directly from the '3D Painting' section of the manual . As you can see , it certainly is far less than adequate (well , not to everyone , apparently) . I had much better luck than the manual's horrible example by rotating the cylinder mapping 90-180 degrees . Maybe the image paths are not set right, you should see the images (color, bump) in the UV editor as background images. Matthias I'll repeat it again in this thread ... the simple point I have been trying to make : This screen cap is of the 'UV Coords' , which does not offer the user the ability to see how the mesh has been textured . So way back when I began this nightmare pilgrimage , I asked why not , why couldn't this be textured in realtime opengL so that we could then look at the unwrapped mesh and see how it has been textured ? That's really what this thread was all about , yet I keep getting directed toward how RS does UV mapping , instead . I know how RS maps UV , basically . I think it is a hurried effort , at best . However , I have posted mails on the sub- ject in the spirit of the everlasting - for what it's worth . thanks garryattachment: manual_head.gifattachment: matts-unwrapping.gif
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Tutorials #2 #3
http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=66 http://www.realsoft.info/modules.php?op=modloadname=Newsfile=articlesid=115 Yes , I remember these examples as well . Also , I remember your parting remarks : More to come ... How to animate the UVs. And... How to create UVs after a heavy modelling session. And... How to paint on the created UVs. When is Daddy coming home? Very wise of you to use a rectangle to show an example on . The RS SDS UV mapping tools (mostly) are very good at mapping if you stick to parallel mapping tools . Good for rectangles , and even for square objects (if you're in a daring mood) . The Egg Cup tutorial is also a good example of using a , square parallel mapping on a round object . Very wise . RS will excel at this , in theory , even though it's actual real-world working style leaves much to be desired . BTW: In my opinion you should think about the difference between connected and separated UV-faces, too. Very important for SDS in smoothed mode. I can just imagine . Have in mind that RS has UVW-Coordinates (W is the UV-Coordinates Z-Axis, important for using UVs with procedural textures ;-) not UVs only... If that's not enough: You have the possibility to combine different layered UVWs ;-) Yes , but big deal . That's like saying this multi-engine air plane is fully equipped with pontoons , when we are actually flying over the Sahara desert on one engine . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
The obvious answer to my original question seems to be No , there is no OpenGL viewing of the UV Mesh in the UV Editor . OK , fine . Hi Garry, I cut most of your text as I didn't exactly understand it. I got the feeling you went wrong very early in the process. I attached two images: One perspective and one UV editor view. Both of the same object. Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. Arjo : Yes , and no . The last mail was about trying to spin an object about it's COG , so that we can easily rotate it to see how the texturing is coming along . Simple . Yes , the original mail I sent yesterday asked if it was possible to do exactly what your images show . That's what I've been trying to do since yesterday , but had to give up when the UV View Property Window finally froze . thanks garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. I forgot to mention I can add a texture via the SDS's Col Tab , but when I drag and drop a shader onto the mesh in UV Editor , the object get's shaded , but the UV mesh does not . garry
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
of Faces in the Map2Obj tool. In the case of this simple cube I would need three parallel mapping objects. One for the front and back, one for the sides and one for the top. But when you want to do serious unwrapping of more complex objects like a human head, you'll need more advanced tools outside Realsoft. Tools that support automatic unfolding of your mesh. Tools that only need a line across your object to serve as a seam. The rest will be done almost automatically. I hope this helps a bit. Unwrapping objects will take some study to get familiar with. Arjo. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:owner- [EMAIL PROTECTED] Namens studio Verzonden: dinsdag 11 maart 2008 21:17 Aan: user-list@light.realsoft3d.com Onderwerp: Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ? Before I continue I would like to know if this sort of thing is what you're looking for. Arjo. I forgot to mention I can add a texture via the SDS's Col Tab , but when I drag and drop a shader onto the mesh in UV Editor , the object get's shaded , but the UV mesh does not . garry
Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Is the realtime OpenGL shading broken in the UV Editor Window too , or is it just my OpenGL card , or am I just not using it correctly , or rather , is it not set up to show a fully OGL shaded UV Mesh ? Correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem to me that one would want a real-time representation of exactly what is already mapped on the SDS object . What bet- ter way to see that , than viewing it directly on the shaded wireframe representation in the UV Editor ? The 'UV View' Properties Window shows the option to have OpenGL Shaded , but nothing I have ever seen in the manual about UV Editing (1 or 2?) meager pages , shows any OGL shading . So , I have to wonder , is it broken , or is the UV Properties window erroneously trying to apply shading that hasn't actually been coded into RSV6 yet ? Or am I not interpreting this option properly ? studio
Re: Can We Use OpenGL in the UV Editor ?
Well i can not give any mouse command in the UV view prop window , it does not reacte at all ??- see JPG. andre Wow : I have been able to use that window all afternoon , and now , after I got your mail , it is also completely dead ! That's crazy . Like some kind of time bomb , or something . You are on 64 bit , no ? I'm XP-pro 32 . Anyway , if you want to try to learn some SDS texturing clues (and there are very few around for RS) go to this link from the forum and see a neat flash video . 25 MB http://www.henergy.kiev.ua/tutrs3d/rs_painting/rs_painting.html I spent hours trying to duplicate it but it was somewhat comedic . It works , but renders differently than the OGL shows , and the face mappings seem to not want to remember the colors I assigned them . I was experimenting on that bizzare default SDS Cylinder so maybe that's part of the problem . garry Is the realtime OpenGL shading broken in the UV Editor Window too , or is it just my OpenGL card , or am I just not using it correctly , or rather , is it not set up to show a fully OGL shaded UV Mesh ? Correct me if I'm wrong but it would seem to me that one would want a real-time representation of exactly what is already mapped on the SDS object . What bet- ter way to see that , than viewing it directly on the shaded wireframe representation in the UV Editor ? The 'UV View' Properties Window shows the option to have OpenGL Shaded , but nothing I have ever seen in the manual about UV Editing (1 or 2?) meager pages , shows any OGL shading . So , I have to wonder , is it broken , or is the UV Properties window erroneously trying to apply shading that hasn't actually been coded into RSV6 yet ? Or am I not interpreting this option properly ? studio
Suuu-nap !
One of the cool new tools in V6 is the 'Snap' tool . Ever tried to place a sphere _exactly_ on a floor ? Place - render - move - render - ... The new 'Snap' Tool use advanced options (like the 'Packer' tool) to place and snap objects to their exact-exact user- specified locations . (default should be 'Surface' though , not 'BBox') It's in the 'Misc Tools' Window . DragDrop it into your 'View Properties Window' for easy access . cheers studio P.S. testers : The new toolbar is great for many things . However , when we create a camera backdrop the choices of material/image/ illumination is very nice , except it is really material/ image/_color_ . (like in V5) The color selected is actually transferred to the illum- ination channel in order to remove possible lighting con- flicts , but is still a color choice , so illumination _might_ confuse some new users into thinking it is illu- mination for the materials/images/ .
Re: Zbrush boxed - and RS Collision modeling
Import OBJ in RS. Hi : This part confused me - Attache a JPG file ( Property Window Col for example ) use Map2Obj. Are you saying that you can use Map2Obj without selecting a parallel texture with the object file ? That Map2obj will automatically look in the objects Property Window Col for the texture and then map it properly ? ZBrush is excellent for sculpting forms , best of all !! andre thanks garry
Re: Zbrush boxed - and RS Collision modeling
Garry, I have sent the PDF to your email. andre Yes , thanks . I see you have used a cylinder mapping with Map2Obj , as is suggested in the manual . This little tut would probably come in handy for those that are using ZBrush . Perhap you could start a thread in the RS forum and upload the finished .PDF there . I think we are allowed 100MB's each the forum server . garry This part confused me - Attache a JPG file ( Property Window Col for example ) use Map2Obj. Are you saying that you can use Map2Obj without selecting a parallel texture with the object file ? That Map2obj will automatically look in the objects Property Window Col for the texture and then map it properly ? ZBrush is excellent for sculpting forms , best of all !! andre thanks garry
Re: bAKiNG wITh NuRbs - AnaLyTiCs - nO gO
Also , I would have thought that by now RSV6 would have HDRi import built right into it ... wouldn't you ? The hdr plugin is also available at http://home.vasteras2.net/henriknyqvist/hdr/ Great ! Hopefully some of the Quake players will update their links . Realsoft site seems to have some trouble, Internal Server Error and stuff, but otherwise my plugin is listed there. Henrik, I 'Googled' your plugin and every single link was broken . Yes, maybe HDR support should be available out of the box.. I wouldn't mind if my plugin was included, but it's inefficently written, there's no version for Mac, and I've lost the source :/ so it's not fit for inclusion... a free download is the best I can offer. :) Henrik Nyqvist I'm sure your .dll could be reversed engineered and tweaked and included , quite easily (with your permission) . 2008 and this rayracer has no HDRi support . Why am I not surprised ? (but we do have extensive [usable?] VRML support) . Just keeps getting better and better . garry
Re: Is This For Real ?
Garry, I had no problems with v6.1.3 on XP pro on multiple machines. I can't check again now because I using beta 6.1.11, but I have been working all week doing a 1000 frame animation for work with a heavy scene load, and have not had a single problem with RS. I'm sure you have tried re installation, but it is likely a conflict with another application. I sometimes have strange RS performance if 3dsmax and inventor are running at the same time in the background (inventor -max-RS is my pipeline to get work data into RS). Brandon : I think it must be fixed in later versions of the betas . On my 6.01.03 these are broke on the default 'View Control Window': 1) The 'Camera Group' is broken . 2) The ability to 'Show Groups' is broken . 3) The ability to 'turn-on' then 'turn-off' labels is broken . 4) The Draw 'Wireframe Icon' is missing . 5) The 'Interactor Group' is missing . 6) The 'Target Group' is missing . Vista is NOT the answer - don't waste your time, money, and a bottle of aspirin on vista (no offense to anyone running it, but until a VERY solid sp2 arrives for vista, it just isn't happening for the engineering community). Good luck, brandon PS I am still waiting for the new quads before I build a new home system. Luckily at work I just got a dual proc quad xeon to work (play) with. =) Wow , did you try running the RS bench on it yet ? thanks garry Well , maybe it's just me : The 'View Window Icons' at the top-left of the attached image do not work on my version of V6.01.03 . Perhaps they work on everyone else's , or on the V6 demo but I cannot get them to do anything on my newly installed RSV6 install . For the past week I have been trying to do something ... anything ... constructive with this 3D program ... is it even possible ? I'm on XP-Pro . Do I need to go 'Vista' to get there ? thanks in advance studio
Re: Is This For Real ?
Just to be clear- it's the Icons circled in red that don't work at all . Also , the (missing) : 1) 'Define New Aimpoint' Icon takes 2 attempts (first is wrong) 2) 'Zoom' Icon also takes 2 attempts to get it to work properly . Anyway , The Default 'View Control Window' is broken in 6.01.03 but we can delete it and simply add another one from the list of 'Available Objects' . OK , fine , this new one is not quite _as_ buggy , but now I have lost the ability to dragdrop other 'Available Tools' to this newly docked 'View Control Window' . How do I make this new window accept dragdrop ? Does anyone know of any tutorials or information on exactly how we should use can use all the various 'Available Object Windows 'Client Windows' etc etc ? thanks garryattachment: icons.gif
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking ... solved for SDS !
See if you can spot what I did to force the screen to render SDS properly in realtime . garry Ah, a riddle. Either fiddle with the texture quality and the mat. rendering (wire tab), or change the sds object from polygone to nurbs. What have I won? Frank Bueters Hmmm : Well , polygon to nurbs has no effect what-so-ever , so that tells me you are guessing . Fiddle ? Sorry , no prize ... yet . (but you are obviously very close) garry
Re: proper UV coordinates
proper UV coordinates are UVs which are usable for your operation :-? It's not possible to say what is proper in your case. Only that the faces in the UV-Space should not overlap :-? Yes , no doubt , but my point was about the situation I was in and the difficulty in finding information in the manual , quickly and effortlessly . Same QT can be: What is a good wheel? OK, round. Material ? Size ? Design ? Actually , there was no question about proper UV co- ordinates , to this list . The mail was about trying to write a tutorial and then giving up because of a lack of easily accessible information . Do you need a manual, or paper ? Garry on the toilet, who is shouting: Paaaper! Nope, no please at the end :-p Hmmm, good start for a new 3 Stooges story :-? Let's have fun Matthias I was having fun writing the tutorial ... for a while anyway . garry Hi Matt : Several solutions . Hopefully it will ultimately be solved by RS in a future service pack . As far as the 'UV-Image' Tool , I started a tutorial today about Realtime illumination mapping , got part way into it and had to give up . The attached message was a small clue , but in the end I ran out of energy searching for more clues . I know this is what you have been making an effort to point out recently , but I was trying to point out something diff- erent , at the same time , about realtime rendering bugs . For Analytic it's a simple tutorial , but for SDS it is simply not do-able with V6.01.03 , unless we go into the world of workaround 'A' . (and maybe even workaround 'B') Anyway , started to search the manual for info on this proper UV coordinates predicament and gave up . It would have been very nice if a link had been placed there in the manual to wisk a user away to that section where one could explore this import- ant area of proper UV coordinates for SDS . (oh well) A 'key word' Reference Manual search proved fruitless . I'm not saying the info is , or isn't in the manual , but this business of searching page-by-page is very time consuming . Perhaps more easily accesible info will make it's way into an expanded User Manual in the future ... love Daddy
bAKiNG wITh NuRbs
Well , I thought Nurbs baking would be better suited and easier to deal with , but it is an absolute Haunted House . Everything is broken , and I mean everything . Oddly enough with SDS , Nurbs Analytics , the maps that V6 creates are extremely beautiful , and I mean absolutely freakin' perfect ! You can view them in the Materials Tab , by clicking on the 'Advanced' box , and then selecting the actual texture VSL line , and then click the 'Show' box (or just view them in the folder that you directed the Uv-Image Tool to save the .bmp's for that created map) . They really are sampled perfectly , and for simple Realtime OpenGL use they are more than adequate . Look to be quite good enough for Raytracing too , especially if they save you a ton of time . Too bad , and with the new RSViewer in V6 , it would be nice if this UV-Image Tool was a simple no-brainer to use (like in the example in the Manual) . However , I think UV-Image Analytic Objects work fine . studio
Re: bAKiNG wITh NuRbs - AnaLyTiCs - nO gO
However , I think UV-Image Analytic Objects work fine . studio Scratch that . Broken too . garry Well , I thought Nurbs baking would be better suited and easier to deal with , but it is an absolute Haunted House . Everything is broken , and I mean everything . Oddly enough with SDS , Nurbs Analytics , the maps that V6 creates are extremely beautiful , and I mean absolutely freakin' perfect ! You can view them in the Materials Tab , by clicking on the 'Advanced' box , and then selecting the actual texture VSL line , and then click the 'Show' box (or just view them in the folder that you directed the Uv-Image Tool to save the .bmp's for that created map) . They really are sampled perfectly , and for simple Realtime OpenGL use they are more than adequate . Look to be quite good enough for Raytracing too , especially if they save you a ton of time . Too bad , and with the new RSViewer in V6 , it would be nice if this UV-Image Tool was a simple no-brainer to use (like in the example in the Manual) .
Re: bAKiNG wITh NuRbs - AnaLyTiCs - nO gO
However , I think UV-Image Analytic Objects work fine . studio Scratch that . Broken too . garry No problem , I'll just move on to working a little with HDRi ... ... except all the links to that plugin are broken . Anyone have a working link to that plugin ? thanks garry
baking recipes - the stove is on ... but the gas was leaking out !!!
Vesa hates it because he cannot put a hook and a worm on OPENGL . Big sorry from my side to Vesa, for the wrong interpretation. Thanks to Garry, who's putting me on the right way. Matthias Listen , Matt , your hard work was very appreciated , but I am compelled to put the community before you , before Vesa, before Juha , before me , before Bill Gates ... That sometimes will cause a lot of friction when trying to do my small part to improve the S/W . It is a tiny little role I play here , but I will play it to the best of my ability , which will include calling out Bullshit , when and where I see it . If I see it in the S/W , I will call Bullshit , If I see it in people's responses , I will call Bullshit (and quite often , much , much worse) . I apologise , and you of all people should not take my mails too seriously , anyway . I post here , normally in a for the record type of manner. It is nothing more than an observational for what it's worth . If you or Realsoft read it and deem it to be worthless , then so be it , I could care less , but I will post my thoughts and ideas and observations (and try to make my point) until I get kicked off , or die, or move to the LW pit . You are selfless , and giving of your time , and only the tiny language barrier holds you back a little bit (as well as your day job of course) . You are a Realsoft3D Master . You can find workarounds always, and I admire you for that , and quite frankly , this is how I like to work too , normally . However , myself , lately , have been asking (myself) , why are we always having to find workarounds for bugs , or missing tools? Or having to search ask for info on specific tools that are not mentioned in the manual . It is a never ending , non-stop , forever kind of a thing . I feel like a kid who keeps asking when is Daddy coming home? and being told soon , son , soon ... , when in fact ,Daddy has been dead and eaten by wolves 5 years ago . I was not trying to make you realise that you are always wrong and don't know what you're taking about , but was trying to make a simple , simple point , once and for all so that perhaps this area of the S/W could be looked at by the Testers and RS . And if one of the Testers or Vesa was to come here and say ... there is nothing wrong with it , you only need to do this then this then this ... I will simply say Bullshit , and then try to carry on . I hope this makes you feel a bit better , and if I haven't said it enough , thanks for all your great explorations and tutorials and non-stop help . You are a true leader in this small community , not like me who is just a loud mouth know it all . (who really knows very little about 3D these days) cheers garry
Re: docs
a positive point of insufficient documentation is the need to explore the most gloony side of a program. it's also a question of money...but sure time is money too. If one makes the choice to ruin his piggy bank he could go to 3000 - 4000 Euro for some 3D program ( at least!) + some more for docs. Programming for others becomes more and more a hard work and certainly in a free market world. andre Oh ya ? : Well then if that's the way it is , then color me gone . If that's the attitude here , then fuck it . If that's what is going on here ... buh-bye . If it is all about , here's the tools , they are buggy and the documentation is non-existant , but they are cheap ... Well , then , fuck it ! Thank you very much for opening my eye's to how I have been wasting a huge amount of my time (and a tiny bit of my money...) ... if that's the way it is ... garry
Re: docs
I think a misunderstanding here... The day i 'll have the program 100% under the knie i WILL TRY to write some docs in PDF free to everyone , after that i will color myself gone. No misunderstanding : The battle you/I/us/we , face , when trying to get to that stage of mastery , is huge . That's my point (again, again again [repeat mode permanently on]) . Vesa has mentioned here that , yes , the docs need work and that they are trying to get the docs more completely up to date . So then , of course we can help by exploring RS and point- ing out where there are mistakes , or sometimes , very large gaps (although , it certainly has not been an easy time to point out such a small matter as 'baking with SDS') . No need Garry to open the fire , i think no ennemi present on this list , i suppose we all support and like RS. Besides all what is written on the list is most important to beginners like me , it is already an important doc . Yes , it serves a good purpose here , but for those that speak other languages , the docs inside RS are vital . For those of us that are english speaking , the docs are still required to help us create , quickly , easily , without posting here ... waiting ... waiting ... no reply ... If you have a look at Maya , Cinema 4d and so much others they do not much more as RS ...so thanks RS. best andre Ya , I got your point . It has been said here dozens of times . It will be said again dozens of times . I've said it myself , many , many times ... However , in the middle of an intense discussion about a certain lacking , about some certain bugs , you decide to 'pipe up' and say gee , RS is cheap , so we all should be happy and thankful , well , sorry , but that comment is totally out of place at this time , in my opinion . Get in here and bang your head against a few dozen walls and then come back and tell me how good RS is because it is so cheap , but powerful . Seriously , I'll be watching your progress with great interest . In fact , the journey of the new user is of much greater importance interest, to me , than buggy baking and all those missing docs on powerful features . garry
Re: baking recipes
If you try to bake a analtic mapping type on a SDS with bad Uvs you can't get good results. Yes , I know . The problem is with the UV-Image Tool and not being able to get ... ANY RESULTS FOR SDS !!! Have a look here: http://www.the-final.com/rs/checker-sds.jpg You can see a bad distortion at the top of the SDS (top-left viewport). I see bad distortions my friend . I'm 52 years old and I see very bad distortions ... Have you seen the latest 'bad distortion' ? http://tinyurl.com/2fe77q MS $357Million fine ? Sorry , that's old hat . I meant the slap this week . http://tinyurl.com/38a4nn Just another day in the life for Bill Gates . All part of the plan and the plan is going quite well , thank you very much . Have a nice day . garry
Re: baking recipes - Bad Mushrooms
Hi Matt : It's 3:00 AM here , I'll attempt to check it out tomorrow . Thanks garry Hi Garry, Have a look here: http://www.the-final.com/rs/AO_in_OGL2.zip First of all , which version of RS are you using ? Are you Frank still on the 6.01.04 demo ? The rest are on 6.01.03 . 6.01.04 The setting.gif shows the settings ;-) No , it doesn't . You show a screen capture for Analytic map- ping ! The problem being faced is Realtime for SDS . It shows the UV-Image tool settings for baking out illumination of a default map. (AO in this case) Also , the true test for realtime mapping is to turn off all realtime lights after the maps are created . With the Lights 'OFF' , now you will see just exactly what RS has created for realtime viewing (unless this is a bug also ?) Why must the lights beeing turned off, is this a rule for the contest? OK, in the above links are no lights used :-) Turn 'Lights-Off' for your project and the SDS mushroom appears to have been on the shelf far too long , yet the Analytic Rectangle is perfectly mapped in Realtime OGL . You say 'Do Not Forget Ambient Light' , but why ? Is this your workaround method for certain bugs , in some ways ? The ambient light solves the problem that the SDS is too dark in OGL, if you use the VSL-Method. If you don't like the VSL-Method, and the lights, too, try this: Turn off (for OGL/Realtime) all lights and set the maps in the Property Window as Illumination Map for the objects. Then you don't need any VSL or additional lights ;-)
Re: baking recipes - the stove is not turned on yet .
The bad distortions on the SDS can be solved by simply refining the top and bottom of the SDS a little bit It's an everyday problem, how to get good UVs. No character with painted textures without having good UVs :-? Matthias Must be some kind of major communication breakdown (again?) . The whole gist of this thread was this : The UV-Image Tool allows for very quick baking when using Analytic Objects (as per the Manual's example) However , when using SDS Objects , the UV-Image tool APPEARS to function the same way the manual shows (for Analytic) and APPEARS to bake maps , but is indeed , very , very , very broken . You supplied a project , and what you were actually trying to show , I have no idea , but it was not re- lated to this thread , except perhaps as some kind of a workaround . You could create a hundred projects showing how it can be done and it would not matter to me , since I was only trying to show that it can't be done the same way that the manual says it should be done (kill me) . VSL , or a 2 stage method , or Map2Object , or UV-Image Tool (but a different use) ... it doesn't matter . I am only trying to point out obvious flaws so that they can be fixed in V9 or one of the next hundred service packs . You seem to be trying to show that it can be done , so good for you , but please just point to the part of the Manual where it shows what you are trying to do ... Correct ! Now you get what I'm trying to say . That , tiny, tiny , tiny little part of the manual (that talks about this feature) is missing some (?!?!?!?!) vital information ... ... concerning SDS and baking illumination !! !! Why oh why Why oh why Why oh why Why oh why Why oh why Why oh why (am I constantly repeating myself) over over over over over over over over over over over over over over Seriously , it's broken ! (ya , the record too) Either fix the S/W or fix the Manual . That's my point , again , as plainly as I can make it , for the last time - period ! [next stop MAYA] The workaround method is ... Ah , forget it . It's 4:00 AM and I'm officially , out !
Re: baking recipes - the stove is not turned on yet .
Sorry, most times my german is better than my english. Only tried to help out. Your english is very good . I've never read the manual for the UVimage tool :-? Well ,there isn't much to read , unfortunately . The UV-Image tool is another example of a very powerful component that is not documented properly . Only 1 tiny example in User Manual. It should show baked textures assigned to an analtic rectangle and a SDS :-? Yes , it's a workaround method , but Mark's method was easier to use , and each step is explained and understood , and the user understands that OGL SDS illumination maps are broken in RSV4/5/6 with OPENGL . H, now I've pressed F1 for UVimage tool. OK, can be more information, butit's ok. It's OK for the Reference Manual , but the User Manual's example (in the Advanced Rendering Section) only deals with Analytic illumination baking . UV-Image tool can do so much more , but it is never talked about , not even here . Maybe the missing information is, that you can only bake things, which are available in the shader ? There are pages of missing information for that very powerful tool , especially with the New V6 RS Viewer being something that users will want to try out . Anyway , the example in the USER! manual does not deal with baking a shader . It should deal with that subject too , (of course), but it does not (of course) . Should I set up a short tutorial :-? Matthias Well , better that RS incorporate a few more examples in the User Manual . The Reference Manual rarely includes examples , but it would be a big help to those that are stuck . I would never say no to Tutorials , but personally I think it's time that some of those tutorials be placed in the User Manual , instead of being spread out all over the world on dozens of servers . garry
Re: Open gL question
Also , when I make a 'Light Object' , 'Wireframe Invisible' (so as to get it to hell out of the way) it stops working in OpengL mode . It still Raytraces fine , though . I have a better answer for this one. Select the light and go to the 'Wire' tab on Object properties and select 'Hide Geometry' to make it not show up in the view, but still show the light. cm Ah yes , the workaround . Thanks , it works fine for my purposes . garry My mistake , this is not a workaround method at all , but is the way it currently works . Making anything 'WireFrame Invisible' essentially disables it from OpenGL viewing , so in the case of the light object , it disappears and takes it's light with it . However , I'm curious if this is really the best way to handle these situations ? Shouldn't we be able to diable OpenGL rendering for anything (including Lights) by making it 'RT Invisible' , instead of 'WF Invisible' ? This makes more sense to me . I mean , if we are disabling it from Real Time rendering , do we not want to disable it from Ray Tracing too ? Just my opinion . garry
Re: baking recipes
Quick update: I finally managed to get something in opengl, it appears I got
into trouble because I was working with SDS and tried to bake into the faces
('attach' and 'per face' checked). This is handled differently by OGL, a
bug??
Workaround by going into the freshly calculated shadowmap material and
change a few things:
- get rid of the line Color = Constant(0,0,0) (no wonder it appeared black,
heh)
Actually , I left it and then selected (.5,.5,.5) , or whatever .
- replace 'Illumination += Texture(Map coords)' by 'Color *= Texture(Map
coords)'
This did not work for me . Using SDS I could not get any
realtime maps to show up ! However , switching to 'Color *=
Texture(Map coords)' did give me a much , much better ray-
tracing (actually useable) .
Diffuse maps (indirect lighting) are often too dark, so a line like 'Color
+= linear(Color)' may help, set multiplication factor to [1.5 1.5 1.5] or
so.
OK .
The weird thing is that this illumination-color conversion is not necessary
when NOT baking into SDS faces! That must be why it worked for you Garry. I
just had to fall into that rabbit hole...
to be continued,
-Mark
Yes , I'll continue to try and get this to work as nicely as it did
for Analytic , with SDS . I've noticed other differences right away
with the simple 'mapped shadows' option for Lights , also . I'm guessing
this area of RS did not get explored very deeply previously .
Good luck with your research .
garry
Re: baking recipes
What should be the result :-? A textured object for RS-Viewer :-? Matthias Yes . Mark I are just testing the V6 demo . garry
Some Interface Considerations
1) One of the things I bitched about for years was the default mesh resolution on SDS rectangle objects . If this doesn't help to confuse the new user , nothing will . 2) Windows selection convention is Shift-Select to select a list of objects , Control-Select to multi-select indi- vidual objects . For some unknown reason , RS is backwards . Also , select a list of 3D objects , then quickly try to un- select one of them . Into the manual we go ... 3) I changed the default 'File Save' window size ... (File/preferences/Classes/Graphical user Interface/Window/ /Drop Target Window/Main Window/Thumbnail Width-height) But when I use it , it still opens as the default tiny size , until I click in the 'Thumbnail' area , and then it does expand to the larger size I've set it to . studio
Re: baking recipes
The whole purpose of this thread is to talk about realtime results , and so far I can get no realtime results using the 'UVimage tool' and SDS . garry Hi Garry, did you have a look at the file, is it this what you like to get: http://www.the-final.com/rs/ Matthias Yes , for hours and hours and hours and hours ...
Re: expl
good ! well i thought to build clothes that way. andre OK , well the Cloth Plugin is on it's way ! The author of the plugin is just putting the finishing touches on it now . Stay tuned ! garry
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking - Reply #3
As I said earlier , previous versions of RS would do this for you , so I'm assuming we still can ... OK , great : The tutorial is still in the V6 manual . It's called - - Chapter 8. Rendering - - Advanced Illumination Examples The whole key is this very undocumented part of RS , parti- cularily - the 'UVimage Control' in the Material Menu .This is what I was searching for , and it is the beginning tool for creating illumination/color/shadow maps for OpenGL . Just did some quick tests and I was able to create maps for raytraced shadows that were displayed very well in OpenGL and the RSViewer . I think it possible to combine the illumination maps with the color maps in an image editor , to get a nice effective OGL representation . More experiments forthcoming . garry
Re: Leap day
Uuuups, if you need a demo-file, feel free to ask. But remember: JS in RS v6 will not work :-( You have to use v5.x Matthias Hi Matt : Not true ! Just use the V6 Demo ! :-? ;-) garry
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking - Reply #4
Just did some quick tests and I was able to create maps for raytraced shadows that were displayed very well in OpenGL and the RSViewer . I think it possible to combine the illumination maps with the color maps in an image editor , to get a nice effective OGL representation . garry A very quick dirty example of 'Baked illumination maps' using the 'UVimage Tool' . Stock , non-postprocessed maps at 256 pixel resolutions and samples set at '5' . Sphere and rectangles are Analytic . garry attachment: illumination_channel.gif
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking
Hi Mark : Impressive stuff, smooth realtime movement and full GI. You don't see that often in realtime! I agree . Yes, it's worth a try with RS. Baking illumination can work well, I used this trick for ceilings in GI scenes. Exactly . But baking indirect illumination into an entire scene... Exactly ... (this is the key!) it should be possible, slowly building up complexity and mapping resolution. If necessary, edit some of the mappings manually . Well , that is a very , very deep subject , and an area that has not been explored yet in this tiny community . 'Unwrapping' a raytraced object's texture for Baking ? Is this even possible in any single 3D app available today ? I doubt it . Cutting edge RS offered options for 'Baking' illumination maps in V5 , but my quick look at this V6 manual did not find that tutorial . Is it still a V6 option ? So where do we start , to even discuss the workaround method ? As you say , edit manually , I guess , but man that is a lot of work (as I believe you are implying) . Matthias came up with that brilliant idea for using a chrome sphere to capture rays and make them available for 2D pano projections . Your (lost) example project upload showed it ! It's this kind of thinking that is required to take 'Baking' to the next level , I would guess . Of course, baking only works in static scenes where only the camera is moving, that's a disadvantage. Hmmm , I don't think so . Remember , the RS viewer allows for animation triggers ! So , as you can well imagine I'm sure , textures could _also be animated_ to contain the shadows that _should_ be cast from those animated objects ! What other _3D_ realtime viewer in the world allows for something as cool as that ? (none , I'm guessing) thanks for the links! Mark H check out the new ones at the top of this mail . garry
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking
Hi Mark : Big problem: RS's OGL realtime engine ignores the Illumination channel in VSL materials. How to make the illumaps show up in RS's own realtime engine? Is there a walkaround? All the more because shadows would have to be baked too, the RS engine doesn't do shadows, even though my graphics card does. Yes , at this point in time shadows would have to be 'baked' . Every- thing would have to be baked , except for whatever exceptions Vesa Juha would consider incorporating into the viewer in the future . I'd love to say RS can do great realtime walkthroughs with pre-baked illumination - would be great for architectural presentations - but no, it's all about rendering. Baking can still be very useful for rendering btw. (but tricky!) -Mark Hmmm , not sure I understand you on this point . Please elaborate . As you know , 'Baking' is the results of rendering ... ie , render once but view an infinite number of times . It's a fairly new concept and maybe there are some conflicting elements to be seperated first ? Anyway , it is a very intriguing option for animators , n'est pas ? Rembrandt was dutch , wasn't he ? (big grin) cheers garry
Re: Leap day
It would be a challenge to render clock in real time with a J.Script adding to each second a small amount making from 12 13. ...just a crazy idea of course... best andre That idea was actually done by Frank Dodd , I think , many years ago (if I remember correctly) . I look at your rendering , and some of the shadows seem very mysterious . I mean , where would the lights be in order to cast those odd shadows ? Some shadows are normal , but some seem to come from some unknown light source . Anyway , keep rendering ! garry
Open gL question
If I make a texture 'RT Invisible' it still gets rendered in OpengL . To me this sounds incorrect . Is there a reason for this ? studio
Re: The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking - Reply 2
So where do we start , to even discuss the workaround method ? As you say , edit manually , I guess , but man that is a lot of work (as I believe you are implying) . I think we need either complete export including textures and illumaps to run RS baked projects in an external advanced OGL viewer, or a better Realsoft OGL engine. -Mark Yes , of course , but my point (RM/on) is how do we start to tackle the workaround method in the meantime ? We probably need to call out to those who are more know- ledged in the arts of UV mapping . Is it possible to devise an unwrapping method (the rendered-post processed texture, not the UV mesh) with the tools or series of tools already available in V6 ? That's the question , and I'm still guessing the answer is going to take some deep considerations . garry
Re: Open gL question
Sorry for the half-assed suggestion. I was thinking of DELETING the texture mapping object, not making it RT invis. You are right, this should work. That's what I figured too . Also , when I make a 'Light Object' , 'Wireframe Invisible' (so as to get it to hell out of the way) it stops working in OpengL mode . It still Raytraces fine , though . I have a better answer for this one. Select the light and go to the 'Wire' tab on Object properties and select 'Hide Geometry' to make it not show up in the view, but still show the light. cm Ah yes , the workaround . Thanks , it works fine for my purposes . garry
The RSV6 Viewer ... and Texture Baking
The new RSV6 Viewer has many possibilities of course . For ex- cellent examples of those possibilities we may have to look to some of the viewers which have been around for several years . http://www.studiodynamics.net/list/gallery.mpg 1.6 MB The above mpeg is a transcoded (via VLAN) example of, the below linked , online realtime viewer . http://www.digitalarts.dk/2004/06/art-gallery/ 17 real-time high-quality environments are available for viewing there via browser plugin (worked fine in NS9) , with the Art Gallery being one of the very early examples of 'texture baking' for RT viewing . Originally on http://www.suurland.com/ , there is also a version on the above digitalarts site that runs via .dll and is really very cool and fast . Complete with walking sounds . (6 MB download) http://www.digitalarts.dk/cases/gallery/art_gallery.zip Important info first about the .dll vesion . Disable the default 3D Colorcode , and try running it in a 1024 x 768 'Windowed' state first . Just arrow keys and mouse . Read the included help file , if required . Long mail , but in short , these examples may inspire to create examples of what _CAN_ be done with the new RSV6 viewer , with a little time and effort . http://www.videolan.org - plays and transcodes any video file you can throw at it (when you don't have the codec) studioattachment: ClipBoard.jpg
Re: Hallaluya
I got an error too installing on vista 32 but it did not stop the installing process so it started later very well. I use visual studio 5. andre Hi Andre : Yes , and that's probably what saved you ... the fact that you use VS5 . For users with brand new systems there may still be some problems . The important part is finding out how to work our way around the problems . Thanks for your reply . garry Reported here a month ago that V6 would not install on my new XPSP1 computer and was giving error messages . I added the XP service pack2 and it did install . Now , with a brand new hard drive I tried again to install to XP SP1 and got the attached error message . Went to Microsoft's site and D/L'd and installed their 2005 Visual C++ install , and left the RS Visual C++ out of the V6 install process . RS installed fine this time , so it appears that the Visual C++ error message may possibly have some merit after all . studio
