Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Tomas, What synthisizer do you using wile developing mota? sevgiler saygilar - Original Message - From: Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, That might work. Unfortunately, Acapela Heather doesn't like the word mage. I typed in skeleton mage and it says it like skeleton midge. No wonder I hate synthetic speech. It doesn't know how to say anything right. That's actually one of my problems in producing MOTA. Acapela Heather is a nice sounding voice, but it has troubles with a number of words. It saying midge instead of mage is just a case in point. I've had to take great pains to have the synth to do as well as it does in the game. In many cases misspelling words to have it come up with something close to the correct sounding word. Cheers! On 1/31/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Well...I now Greece wasn't renound for its assasins but Skeleton assassin would work. Fire throwerskeleton mage would do nicely. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, The synth used in Mysteries of the Ancients is Accapela Heather. In my opinion the Accapela voices are some of the most human sounding Sapi voices out there. There is another one, Rachel I think it is, that sounds better than Heather. On 2/2/11, burakyuksek burakyuksek...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tomas, What synthisizer do you using wile developing mota? sevgiler saygilar --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
it could just be me, but it seems like the voice is kinda choppy. also. is it pronouncing cerberus wrong? Time to start spelling stuff phonetically in games, right? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, The synth used in Mysteries of the Ancients is Accapela Heather. In my opinion the Accapela voices are some of the most human sounding Sapi voices out there. There is another one, Rachel I think it is, that sounds better than Heather. On 2/2/11, burakyuksek burakyuksek...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tomas, What synthisizer do you using wile developing mota? sevgiler saygilar --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Liam, The choppiness could be processor speed and/or ram. When I run the game on my laptop that has a 3.6 GHZ processor it isn't too bad. When I load the game on an older 1.2 GHZ desktop, the one that recently died, it is kind of slow and choppy. This only really started once I stuck the 44100 KHZ sounds in the game. The game really isn't meant for lower end systems like that. As far as Cerberus the c is suppose to be a hard c like Kerberus not a soft se like Serberus. There is also alternative spellings for the name depending if you use Greek or Latin. The Latin translation is spelled c e r b e r u s and is the one most often seen in English translations of the Greek works. However, the original Greek spelling is k e r b e r o s. Its a lingual thing. Cheers! On 2/2/11, Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com wrote: it could just be me, but it seems like the voice is kinda choppy. also. is it pronouncing cerberus wrong? Time to start spelling stuff phonetically in games, right? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
It's because he's using the actual Greek spelling I believe, which is Kerberos. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments it could just be me, but it seems like the voice is kinda choppy. also. is it pronouncing cerberus wrong? Time to start spelling stuff phonetically in games, right? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, The synth used in Mysteries of the Ancients is Accapela Heather. In my opinion the Accapela voices are some of the most human sounding Sapi voices out there. There is another one, Rachel I think it is, that sounds better than Heather. On 2/2/11, burakyuksek burakyuksek...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tomas, What synthisizer do you using wile developing mota? sevgiler saygilar --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Oh oh. That's right. I forgot he was sticking to the greek mythology including spelling. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments It's because he's using the actual Greek spelling I believe, which is Kerberos. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Liam Erven liamer...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 7:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments it could just be me, but it seems like the voice is kinda choppy. also. is it pronouncing cerberus wrong? Time to start spelling stuff phonetically in games, right? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, February 02, 2011 8:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, The synth used in Mysteries of the Ancients is Accapela Heather. In my opinion the Accapela voices are some of the most human sounding Sapi voices out there. There is another one, Rachel I think it is, that sounds better than Heather. On 2/2/11, burakyuksek burakyuksek...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Tomas, What synthisizer do you using wile developing mota? sevgiler saygilar --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
On Tue, Feb 01, 2011 at 05:57:39AM +0200, Jacob Kruger wrote: Off-hand, might think about calling a skeleton with a dagger something like an assassin..? [My Reply:] Blade? Cutpurse? Footpad? I think Skeleton Thug would carry a sap. Michael --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 5:39 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, That might work. Unfortunately, Acapela Heather doesn't like the word mage. I typed in skeleton mage and it says it like skeleton midge. No wonder I hate synthetic speech. It doesn't know how to say anything right. That's actually one of my problems in producing MOTA. Acapela Heather is a nice sounding voice, but it has troubles with a number of words. It saying midge instead of mage is just a case in point. I've had to take great pains to have the synth to do as well as it does in the game. In many cases misspelling words to have it come up with something close to the correct sounding word. Cheers! On 1/31/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Well...I now Greece wasn't renound for its assasins but Skeleton assassin would work. Fire throwerskeleton mage would do nicely. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, no. Lee, the male australian voice, I really like. It reminds me of all those pro people that do voiceovers for commertials. I also like daniel and serena for UK, and samantha for US. Well, the full version of samantha. The mobile one they put on iOS and what not sounds darn awful. As for jill, well, sounds very drunk to me. lol! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 10:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I actually like the accent. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 9:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Yeah, like I said I don't mind the accent either. - Original Message - From: Shiny protector muhamme...@googlemail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I actually like the accent. - Original Message - __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I don't like any accent in which R's are dropped and R's that don't belong there are inserted. As examples, you should hear enter instead of entuhh, or Pensylvania instead of Pensylvaniar. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Brian, Sorrowfully that's English accents. Ya learn to live with them if you use English synthesizers. Grin Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I don't like any accent in which R's are dropped and R's that don't belong there are inserted. As examples, you should hear enter instead of entuhh, or Pensylvania instead of Pensylvaniar. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
can't help being reminded of dark writing nokiar instead of nokia. smile I personally don't mind it. Maybe it's because I began learning english as UK, but then came online with US eloquence, so I am confortable with both accents. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 11:56 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I don't like any accent in which R's are dropped and R's that don't belong there are inserted. As examples, you should hear enter instead of entuhh, or Pensylvania instead of Pensylvaniar. --- __ Information from ESET Smart Security, version of virus signature database 5266 (20100709) __ The message was checked by ESET Smart Security. http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Charles, Ummm..that sounds more like a southern accent rather than Australian. Grin. On 2/1/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I don't like any accent in which R's are dropped and R's that don't belong there are inserted. As examples, you should hear enter instead of entuhh, or Pensylvania instead of Pensylvaniar. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Don't you mean Charles? LOL. Because I personally happen to love Englis and Australian accents. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:06 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Brian, Sorrowfully that's English accents. Ya learn to live with them if you use English synthesizers. Grin Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 4:56 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I don't like any accent in which R's are dropped and R's that don't belong there are inserted. As examples, you should hear enter instead of entuhh, or Pensylvania instead of Pensylvaniar. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Petr, Actually, in myopinion Scansoft Karen is one of the better Sapi voices. It was based on Australian singer Karen Jacobson's voice. If you have ever heard Karen Jacobson talk the Sapi voice sounds quite a lot like her actual voice. Although, the real Karen Jacobson sounds better justbecause of natural emotion etc that can't be exactly imitated through speech. So it isn't as unhuman as you might think. I think what throws you is the Australian accents that is totally different from American English accents etc. Cheers! On 2/1/11, Pitermach piterm...@gmail.com wrote: I know the feeling. Though I must say at least I don't need to be put up with karen anymore, I hate that voice. Its intonation is far from perfect. very unhuman. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I agree, games like Shades of Doom, Audio Quake and Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry absolutely throw me for a loop! I get lost so quickly it isn't even funny! I guess I get confused by the sounds changing direction as my character moves. That throws me off a lot. I understand it in real life, but in a game, it's confusing. Maybe making a map would help? Ugh, that's a lot of work. And a lot of stuff I'd have to buy. Or I'd have to use Braille or something. So much paper lol. I can't use a Braille display for things like that, either. I have to be able to see the whole map, otherwise I get lost, and the map is useless. On 1/26/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Odd...I've had a lot more trouble with Shades of Doom than blank block. Have you tried the smallest board? I have to admit I've had trouble with the larger boards, but I do believe I've been able to get them all removed once without having to move any around. Now if I could dothat again... Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:57 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, it's actually something of an irony. I've always been able to play complex 2d games like Metroid Mega man and turrican, but one of the most depressing experiences of my life was when I found at the age of about 14 that games like Mario 64 and original tomb rader were utterly unplayable, both because of lack of contrasting graphics, and because of my spacial awareness problem. Indeed, that was one of the main things that interested me in audio games to begin with, because playing Shades of doom let me experience something I hadn't before. Even so, I stil find some 3D audio games without the correct navigation features, such as monkey business and even lone wolf completely unplayable because of the difficulty I have comprehending space. Someone here mentioned blank block, again a game I find utterly impossible myself because I simply cannot maintain a spacial memory of the board, neither can I play chess just with audio no matter how good the board review features are. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Actually, I think the reason you and others are so easily confused by Shades of Doom etc isn't so much the levels are difficult, but it is too easy to get turned around and accidently get lost. If you are walking west along a coridor, get into a fight with an enemy, you might end up walking east not knowing you are suppose to continue west instead of east. This would certainly confuse anybody if they don't know the level layout well enough to know they are going the wrong way. Usually, by the time you figure out you are heading the wrong way you have to try and backtrack to the point where you got lost. This results in waisted time and added frustration. In most cases many of the levels actually are fairly simple. In Shades of Doom on level 1 basically you have six east/west corridors and a few smaller north/south corridors connecting them. Along the left or right wall are rooms you can explore. If you were to ignore the rooms for the moment a simple walk through of level 1 would be like this. You start out in the north-east corner of the level at (19, 19.) You walk west until you reach a north/south passage. You head south a few steps, make a left, and head east ddown a major east/west passage. Once you reach the end of the corridor there will be another north/south passage to your right. Turn right and head south for a few steps and make another right down a long east/west passage. This corridor has a number of alcoves along the left and right walls. ignore them and head west until you hit the end of the corridor. Make a left into a short north/south passage and you will enter a sort of zig/zag corridor. Once you get at the end of it you will be in another east/west corridor. Head east and enter the room on your right. Kill the monsters and head west into another room. Kill more monsters and enter the door on the south wall. Exit this room with the door on the east side. Make a right in a small north/south passage and head south until you reach the final east/west passage. Head west down the passage, open the room on your right with the door, and that will be the elevator room. In all it is a pretty simple level. Mostly east/west passages with a few short north/south passages connecting them. Most of the navigation will be heading south-west. Once you realize your goal is the elevator room is in the south-west corner of the map/level it isn't that hard to figure out what way you should be heading. It would be something like: west, south, east, south, west, south, east, south, west, south, east, south, west. HTH On 1/30/11, Arianna Sepulveda englishride...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, games like Shades of Doom, Audio Quake and Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry absolutely throw me for a loop! I get lost so quickly it isn't even funny! I guess I get confused by the sounds changing direction as my character moves. That throws me off a lot. I understand it in real life, but in a game, it's confusing. Maybe making a map would help? Ugh, that's a lot of work. And a lot of stuff I'd have to buy. Or I'd have to use Braille or something. So much paper lol. I can't use a Braille display for things like that, either. I have to be able to see the whole map, otherwise I get lost, and the map is useless. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
IT seems to me that if you are good at making a mental map of the world around you, you should be able to handle one of these games. Take sod for example. All monsters and nasties aside, I always thought that it would be a great way to teach mobility and memorization by finding landmarks because of all the twists and turns. After playing the game a few times all the way through I have the layout of all 8 levels in my mind and 10 years later I don't have to worry about getting lost in the game. What do other people think? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Arianna Sepulveda Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I agree, games like Shades of Doom, Audio Quake and Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry absolutely throw me for a loop! I get lost so quickly it isn't even funny! I guess I get confused by the sounds changing direction as my character moves. That throws me off a lot. I understand it in real life, but in a game, it's confusing. Maybe making a map would help? Ugh, that's a lot of work. And a lot of stuff I'd have to buy. Or I'd have to use Braille or something. So much paper lol. I can't use a Braille display for things like that, either. I have to be able to see the whole map, otherwise I get lost, and the map is useless. On 1/26/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Odd...I've had a lot more trouble with Shades of Doom than blank block. Have you tried the smallest board? I have to admit I've had trouble with the larger boards, but I do believe I've been able to get them all removed once without having to move any around. Now if I could dothat again... Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:57 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, it's actually something of an irony. I've always been able to play complex 2d games like Metroid Mega man and turrican, but one of the most depressing experiences of my life was when I found at the age of about 14 that games like Mario 64 and original tomb rader were utterly unplayable, both because of lack of contrasting graphics, and because of my spacial awareness problem. Indeed, that was one of the main things that interested me in audio games to begin with, because playing Shades of doom let me experience something I hadn't before. Even so, I stil find some 3D audio games without the correct navigation features, such as monkey business and even lone wolf completely unplayable because of the difficulty I have comprehending space. Someone here mentioned blank block, again a game I find utterly impossible myself because I simply cannot maintain a spacial memory of the board, neither can I play chess just with audio no matter how good the board review features are. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
For some gamers, the numerous twists and turns are what make the game confusing. As for a teaching tool, I would say that it is not a good idea. You don't teach by confusing someone. You learn by crawling, then walking, then running and finally roller skating rather than the other way around. I see it as, in a way, choosing the methods you would prefer to learn to use a dog guide. As you need to know where to tell the dog to take you, you have to know your way around first. That's why I would prefer that I learn to use a dog guide in my home area rather than in a strange city. I wouldn't have to learn where locations are as well as learn how to get the dog to guide me to them. I would be more confident in a familiar area, which translates to a more confident dog who knows that I know what I'm doing. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:45 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments IT seems to me that if you are good at making a mental map of the world around you, you should be able to handle one of these games. Take sod for example. All monsters and nasties aside, I always thought that it would be a great way to teach mobility and memorization by finding landmarks because of all the twists and turns. After playing the game a few times all the way through I have the layout of all 8 levels in my mind and 10 years later I don't have to worry about getting lost in the game. What do other people think? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Arianna Sepulveda Sent: Sunday, January 30, 2011 10:33 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments I agree, games like Shades of Doom, Audio Quake and Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry absolutely throw me for a loop! I get lost so quickly it isn't even funny! I guess I get confused by the sounds changing direction as my character moves. That throws me off a lot. I understand it in real life, but in a game, it's confusing. Maybe making a map would help? Ugh, that's a lot of work. And a lot of stuff I'd have to buy. Or I'd have to use Braille or something. So much paper lol. I can't use a Braille display for things like that, either. I have to be able to see the whole map, otherwise I get lost, and the map is useless. On 1/26/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi Dark, Odd...I've had a lot more trouble with Shades of Doom than blank block. Have you tried the smallest board? I have to admit I've had trouble with the larger boards, but I do believe I've been able to get them all removed once without having to move any around. Now if I could dothat again... Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:57 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, it's actually something of an irony. I've always been able to play complex 2d games like Metroid Mega man and turrican, but one of the most depressing experiences of my life was when I found at the age of about 14 that games like Mario 64 and original tomb rader were utterly unplayable, both because of lack of contrasting graphics, and because of my spacial awareness problem. Indeed, that was one of the main things that interested me in audio games to begin with, because playing Shades of doom let me experience something I hadn't before. Even so, I stil find some 3D audio games without the correct navigation features, such as monkey business and even lone wolf completely unplayable because of the difficulty I have comprehending space. Someone here mentioned blank block, again a game I find utterly impossible myself because I simply cannot maintain a spacial memory of the board, neither can I play chess just with audio no matter how good the board review features are. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
well tom, there are also traps etc, sod has chambers that don't even need you to access unless something exists. I think its quite easy but I have played the game about 1000 times. I plan to do a couple recordings of sod and gtc just for my way of doing things. maybe. Hi, Actually, I think the reason you and others are so easily confused by Shades of Doom etc isn't so much the levels are difficult, but it is too easy to get turned around and accidently get lost. If you are walking west along a coridor, get into a fight with an enemy, you might end up walking east not knowing you are suppose to continue west instead of east. This would certainly confuse anybody if they don't know the level layout well enough to know they are going the wrong way. Usually, by the time you figure out you are heading the wrong way you have to try and backtrack to the point where you got lost. This results in waisted time and added frustration. In most cases many of the levels actually are fairly simple. In Shades of Doom on level 1 basically you have six east/west corridors and a few smaller north/south corridors connecting them. Along the left or right wall are rooms you can explore. If you were to ignore the rooms for the moment a simple walk through of level 1 would be like this. You start out in the north-east corner of the level at (19, 19.) You walk west until you reach a north/south passage. You head south a few steps, make a left, and head east ddown a major east/west passage. Once you reach the end of the corridor there will be another north/south passage to your right. Turn right and head south for a few steps and make another right down a long east/west passage. This corridor has a number of alcoves along the left and right walls. ignore them and head west until you hit the end of the corridor. Make a left into a short north/south passage and you will enter a sort of zig/zag corridor. Once you get at the end of it you will be in another east/west corridor. Head east and enter the room on your right. Kill the monsters and head west into another room. Kill more monsters and enter the door on the south wall. Exit this room with the door on the east side. Make a right in a small north/south passage and head south until you reach the final east/west passage. Head west down the passage, open the room on your right with the door, and that will be the elevator room. In all it is a pretty simple level. Mostly east/west passages with a few short north/south passages connecting them. Most of the navigation will be heading south-west. Once you realize your goal is the elevator room is in the south-west corner of the map/level it isn't that hard to figure out what way you should be heading. It would be something like: west, south, east, south, west, south, east, south, west, south, east, south, west. HTH On 1/30/11, Arianna Sepulveda englishride...@gmail.com wrote: I agree, games like Shades of Doom, Audio Quake and Sarah and the Castle of Witchcraft and Wizardry absolutely throw me for a loop! I get lost so quickly it isn't even funny! I guess I get confused by the sounds changing direction as my character moves. That throws me off a lot. I understand it in real life, but in a game, it's confusing. Maybe making a map would help? Ugh, that's a lot of work. And a lot of stuff I'd have to buy. Or I'd have to use Braille or something. So much paper lol. I can't use a Braille display for things like that, either. I have to be able to see the whole map, otherwise I get lost, and the map is useless. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, I'm not sure about that. It seams to me a lot of people have problems with Shades of Doom, Sarah, etc. I've never thought of them as very hard, but still many others do have the problem. So using them for virtual om training might not be the best idea. However, I am fairly good at general om and I use the very same skills in games. I use certain landmarks to identify where I am. Most of the rooms have different things in them, providing a unique ambience, so it is usually easy to figure out where you are just by sound alone. Since I do use my own om training to play a lot of these more advanced games I'm rather surprised many can't do the same. Cheers! On 1/31/11, Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com wrote: IT seems to me that if you are good at making a mental map of the world around you, you should be able to handle one of these games. Take sod for example. All monsters and nasties aside, I always thought that it would be a great way to teach mobility and memorization by finding landmarks because of all the twists and turns. After playing the game a few times all the way through I have the layout of all 8 levels in my mind and 10 years later I don't have to worry about getting lost in the game. What do other people think? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, I like Skeleton Swordsman, and Skeleton archer, But what do you call a skeleton that uses a dagger? Skeleton cutter? Skeleton BladeSinger? And how about a skeleton that throws fire? Skeleton fire thrower? Skeleton pyromaniac? And what about a skeleton so large it just steps on you? Skeleton crusher? Skeleton stomper? smiles, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Originally I had trouble with SOD but Sarah is actually easier than that (or am I just getting better...hmmm). Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 2:16 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, I'm not sure about that. It seams to me a lot of people have problems with Shades of Doom, Sarah, etc. I've never thought of them as very hard, but still many others do have the problem. So using them for virtual om training might not be the best idea. However, I am fairly good at general om and I use the very same skills in games. I use certain landmarks to identify where I am. Most of the rooms have different things in them, providing a unique ambience, so it is usually easy to figure out where you are just by sound alone. Since I do use my own om training to play a lot of these more advanced games I'm rather surprised many can't do the same. Cheers! On 1/31/11, Darren Duff duff...@gmail.com wrote: IT seems to me that if you are good at making a mental map of the world around you, you should be able to handle one of these games. Take sod for example. All monsters and nasties aside, I always thought that it would be a great way to teach mobility and memorization by finding landmarks because of all the twists and turns. After playing the game a few times all the way through I have the layout of all 8 levels in my mind and 10 years later I don't have to worry about getting lost in the game. What do other people think? --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Well...I now Greece wasn't renound for its assasins but Skeleton assassin would work. Fire throwerskeleton mage would do nicely. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Phil Vlasak Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 7:34 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Thomas, I like Skeleton Swordsman, and Skeleton archer, But what do you call a skeleton that uses a dagger? Skeleton cutter? Skeleton BladeSinger? And how about a skeleton that throws fire? Skeleton fire thrower? Skeleton pyromaniac? And what about a skeleton so large it just steps on you? Skeleton crusher? Skeleton stomper? smiles, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Off-hand, might think about calling a skeleton with a dagger something like an assassin..? smile Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, February 01, 2011 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Thomas, I like Skeleton Swordsman, and Skeleton archer, But what do you call a skeleton that uses a dagger? Skeleton cutter? Skeleton BladeSinger? And how about a skeleton that throws fire? Skeleton fire thrower? Skeleton pyromaniac? And what about a skeleton so large it just steps on you? Skeleton crusher? Skeleton stomper? smiles, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Phil, Lol! That is a very good question. I have been wondering the same thing actually. In some cases there isn't a good name for some of the kinds of modified enemies I can create for MOTA. A Zombie with an iron spear could be called an undead spearman or zombie spearman. However, a zombie that can throw lightning or uses a dagger doesn't have a convenient name like that. Smile. On 1/31/11, Phil Vlasak p...@pcsgames.net wrote: Hi Thomas, I like Skeleton Swordsman, and Skeleton archer, But what do you call a skeleton that uses a dagger? Skeleton cutter? Skeleton BladeSinger? And how about a skeleton that throws fire? Skeleton fire thrower? Skeleton pyromaniac? And what about a skeleton so large it just steps on you? Skeleton crusher? Skeleton stomper? smiles, Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, That might work. Unfortunately, Acapela Heather doesn't like the word mage. I typed in skeleton mage and it says it like skeleton midge. No wonder I hate synthetic speech. It doesn't know how to say anything right. That's actually one of my problems in producing MOTA. Acapela Heather is a nice sounding voice, but it has troubles with a number of words. It saying midge instead of mage is just a case in point. I've had to take great pains to have the synth to do as well as it does in the game. In many cases misspelling words to have it come up with something close to the correct sounding word. Cheers! On 1/31/11, Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com wrote: Hi, Well...I now Greece wasn't renound for its assasins but Skeleton assassin would work. Fire throwerskeleton mage would do nicely. Best Regards, Hayden --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Well it's odd tom, the idea of trying to get better and better scores, much less better scores than other people on the score board really doesn't appeal to me at all, but add in a new unlockable, new collectable or something similar and that completely changes things. i suppose it's just my liking for exploration, and seeing rewards like trophies as something else to explore. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, Basically, I figure unlocking trophies etc is one good use for arcade mode. In Guardian of Light you get certain points for performing various things like time bonuses etc that all go towards unlocking certain trophies and things like that. So if we add arcade mode this would be the most practical way of adding replay value. On 1/26/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I'm fairly indifferent on the score front, but I love the trophy idea, exactly as you said, trying to unlock them all is a challenge I really appreciate. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Likely he's a native German speaker. The rules of spelling apply differently in that language. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:13 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, Not to be picky but I'm not sure why you're replacing ps with bs and ts with ds. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:25 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, since I have been there playing the game from your first Alpha onwards, I have been with it from the start. About random enemies/objects: drop it. I have had that problem of encountering a centauer in the first level with only the standard gun as a weapon, with nothing else. Even on easy that's not really good for your health in the game. Besides, as you are right, we don't need flying creatures under water, while skeletons or zombies might be in the water. Besides, if things are randomiced, you don't know if you can fight a boss or have to run for it. If I play the current version of the game and I have the sword, I'll fight the bosses of the two levels currently playable. If not, I'll fire whatever I currently have, but not to kill, but to get trough that room with as few damage as possible. Besides, for the current version I haven't seen the use of scrolls besides something you can pick up yet. And because I don't know what's in the next room, there are situations where I whish I'd found something different than a scroll. About jumping over trabs: Before Beta 16 (couldn't use Beta 15 due to unforeseen crash of Windows), there was that problem when you stood one or two meters from a fire pid and had to use the view command after every step to find out if you could jump or not. The fact that panning and adjustments of sounds did not change step by step also was a problem, because it sounded like you were zero steps away from the pid, but had a few more to go before jumping. When dealing with casms, you have that warning sound before you have to jump and I think before fire or lava you should do it like in Q9. The other problem the older beta versions had was that when you intended to just walk one step, you walked more than one step occasionally, but getting one step sound but you fell into fire because you did not go one step, but at least two... Also, there is that spike situation in the current level two where you jump over one to stand exactly between two of them and you have to do another jump. When I first came to that I died, because I did not know if I had to walk a few steps before jumping, because it was like with two fire pids after each other or something. Only after using the view command, I got aware of that thing. And when finding the next spike trab (more than one) there were few steps between them. But doing it like in Q9 is probably the best. I'd like to have something like the old arcade mode of the old Monti game you originally made. And about riddles: If it is possible to make some riddles that work with audio, I'm for doing it. So this could expand the plot of the game, because up to now, we only have the first two levels without any cut scenes or some other story relevant events. Besides, a goddess surely would protect her treasures with more than just zombies and such undeath creatures. If she has magic, more things are possible, so if there can be some things like jumping on switches in the floor for example, that's a good idea. Just a short question about trabs and items. What happened to either such things as the wanishing platforms to cross some trabs instead of the bridges or bridges that only hold you for a time before breaking, and something like the force fields or other timed trabs in general? And last of all, warping or teleporting, like the old Monti had, where you can reach other unexplored areas instead of unlocking and opening regular doors with regular keys? That's what I have to say for now and I am awaiting the new beta now. Bye, Michael --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I am with you there And the strange thing is I've been blind from birth. But I have no problems grasping a game like sod or mb. Guess I'm just good with my o and m? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:12 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. _ NOD32 EMON 5818 (20110125) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 5820 (20110126) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 5820 (20110126) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I like your thought about the puzzles that are timed. Those would be challenging to not only solve, but to accomplish once you know how to do it. Knowing how is one thing, and doing it is another. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 9:59 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Charles, Charles wrote: Puzzles? Once solved, do they detract from the challenge and replay value? A classic example of this is the first game put out by Bavisoft. My reply: I don't think so. As long as there are more challenges besides the puzzles in place there will be plenty to offer a gamer. Especially, if the puzzle requires certain timing or requires practice. For example, in Tomb Raider Underworld there is this room with a giant wheel on the wall. Turning this wheel reveals a trap door hidden in the ceiling. The catch is that once you turn the wheel all the way it will start turning the other way closing the trap door. The trick is to climb the wall, using hand/foot holds, and slip through that trap door before it closes and llocks you in. So even though you discovered how to open the trap door it is timed in such a way that you might save and reload your last checkpoint several times trying to time it just right. Charles wrote: Traps? I like the way that Q9's pits are, in that you can still fall into pits even with the muddy warning. Could it be possible to place a landing halfway across a chasm that you have to judge the location of, time your jump so as not to go too far or not far enough, or, well, I do like these vanishing platforms, so that is also an option. My reply: Right. I've thought about that. If there is a huge chasm or lava pit you might have to jump onto a ledge somewhere in the middle of the trap and jump from there to the other side. This would require good timing and/or practice to get it just right. Challenging but could be done with some practice. Another thing I've thought about is some sort of grappling hook. In the Tomb Raider games, at least the newer ones, there are some traps Lara can't jump over, but she can use her grappling hook to swing over it. This would require judging where to stand to cast the hook, where to jump/swing, how long to swing, etc. Plus if we had a grappling hook we might not need ropes per say. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I am also with you daren. ON this email I actually don't spell check. Saying that I try to be correct when at all possible, I have a talking dictionary if I get really stuck. I used to use a checker heavily for uni work and other work to the point that I corrected the word, but didn't give a care if it was actually fully correct. I relied on the checker to fix it, and all I did was write something close to the word and then it was fixed. It mangled my spelling royally. It also mangled my english and some words I spoke. English is my number 1 language. So in fact using a checker like most of us do in a heavy handed manner is probably not a good thing either. At 02:49 a.m. 27/01/2011, you wrote: I am with you there And the strange thing is I've been blind from birth. But I have no problems grasping a game like sod or mb. Guess I'm just good with my o and m? -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:12 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. _ NOD32 EMON 5818 (20110125) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 5820 (20110126) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com _ NOD32 EMON 5820 (20110126) information _ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system http://www.eset.com --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Charles, Yeah. Not only that but from a development point of view it is sort of hard to add that degree of detail. I mean you have to design the timing, difficulty, etc to be challenging but not too hard. To be honest I'm wondering if I might have bit off more than I can chew. Smile. On 1/26/11, Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net wrote: I like your thought about the puzzles that are timed. Those would be challenging to not only solve, but to accomplish once you know how to do it. Knowing how is one thing, and doing it is another. --- Shepherds are the best beasts! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Dark, Odd...I've had a lot more trouble with Shades of Doom than blank block. Have you tried the smallest board? I have to admit I've had trouble with the larger boards, but I do believe I've been able to get them all removed once without having to move any around. Now if I could dothat again... Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of dark Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 1:57 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, it's actually something of an irony. I've always been able to play complex 2d games like Metroid Mega man and turrican, but one of the most depressing experiences of my life was when I found at the age of about 14 that games like Mario 64 and original tomb rader were utterly unplayable, both because of lack of contrasting graphics, and because of my spacial awareness problem. Indeed, that was one of the main things that interested me in audio games to begin with, because playing Shades of doom let me experience something I hadn't before. Even so, I stil find some 3D audio games without the correct navigation features, such as monkey business and even lone wolf completely unplayable because of the difficulty I have comprehending space. Someone here mentioned blank block, again a game I find utterly impossible myself because I simply cannot maintain a spacial memory of the board, neither can I play chess just with audio no matter how good the board review features are. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I think we need more advanced elements and puzzles otherwise games we have will remain to easy On 25 Jan 2011, at 08:13, Thomas Ward wrote: Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items randomly placed. by all rights the water should ruin a scroll rendering it unreadable and worthless so randomizing in this case is not cool. Diddo for the monsters. it is perfectly fine for a skeleton or maybe a zombie to be swimming around in the water trying to kill you but it wouldn't work for a centaur, harpy, or several other enemy monsters I could name. Plus a lot of games I know have a lot of one kind of enemy on one level, and a lot of a different kind on another level. For example, level 1 might have an army of skeletons because they are fairly easy to kill/fight and while there might be a lot of them around they still aren't a serious threat. Later levels might feature harpies, and another one centaurs, and another one zombies. The reason I point this out is that mainstream games often use miner enemies in lower levels and progress to more difficult enemies as you progress.In Tomb Raider Prophecy, for example, it starts you out with fighting gray wolves and ax wielding skeletons. Later levels introduce you to more hostile/difficult enemies such as black fire breathing wolves, undead priests that cast fireballs, and even the skeletons will throw fireballs and stuff at you. Point being there has to be some sort of natural progression rather than just randomly mixing it all up the way we are doing. Bottom line, it is hard to write a plot, balance game play, with too much random stuff going on. So I really need to know how many really think random items and monsters
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Not too sure relevant at all, but in terms of randomisation closest would really think you'd want to go is that on certain levels, the same monsters/adversaries might want appear/arrive at different placements, but that's about as far as would take it. In terms of different jumping levels it might be nice, but would also really depend on whether or not this would then make it count differently in different scenarios/environments. In terms of puzzles, only thing could think of off-hand - and this might also not be 100% suitable for all players liking - would be things like possibly 2 parts of a puzzle, with a sort of time limit - so maybe you would need to activate a lever on one side, and then activate the second lever on the other side within a certain time frame to complete the puzzle as such..? That's all from my side Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 10:13 AM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items randomly placed. by all rights the water should ruin a scroll rendering it unreadable and worthless so randomizing in this case is not cool. Diddo for the monsters. it is perfectly fine for a skeleton or maybe a zombie to be swimming around in the water trying to kill you but it wouldn't work for a centaur, harpy, or several other enemy monsters I could name. Plus a lot of games I know have a lot of one kind of enemy on one level, and a lot of a different kind on another level. For example, level 1 might have an army of skeletons because they are fairly easy
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Will, Yeah, that goes without saying. The big picture here is how to balance it out so it allows new/inexperienced gamers a serious chanse at playing plus give advanced gamers like myself something worth buying and continuing to play for some time to come. To give it replay value that holds the customer's attention without getting too old or boring too quickly. For example, one of the advantages of random monsters/items is no game is exactly the same game twice. This gives it a lot of replay value. However, on the flipside because no game is exactly quite the same I've never been able to properly test it fully or balance out technical aspects because there is no standardization here. It just is too random in my book. Smile. On 1/25/11, william lomas lomaswill...@googlemail.com wrote: I think we need more advanced elements and puzzles otherwise games we have will remain to easy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, very interesting things you brought up there. For me personally, the random enemies and items are not important at all. I perfectly understand what you said about enemies fitting into a plot and so on, and that is a lot more important for me at least. So, I would say, just place the enemies and items where you need them. When there go more puzzles in the game and the levels get more complex, I don't think that would take much from replayability for me. Besides, the fact that you can let the levels get more complex gradually when you know where which enemy goes is a very good point. I would like it better when the game starts fairly easy and gets more complex, so that I can familiarize with it, rather than getting the most difficult enemy right in the first room. And you can place puzzles better when you have fixed places for enemies and items anyway. So, I'd say go with the fixed position for things. I myself played many mainstream games when I still had sight and played many sidescrollers again and again, and all enemies and items were at the same place all the time, too. Concerning standart and arcade mode, I don't need this feature that badly. If you have more time for level design, puzzle design etc. when you leave this feature out, I'd say go for it. It's not really important for me to have both. Your idea with varying the length of jummps sounds perfectly ok for me. I'd rather have a warning before the jump and then have to time it right, than to have no warning at all. So, this seems to be a good solution for me. No about puzzles. Since I myself played many mainstream games, I'm used to the sort of puzzles tat where used there and have no problem with them being in an audiogame, too. Not only that, but it would add more fun for me in the game and I would more likely want to play it more then once. Maybe you also can start fairly easy here in the first few levels, so that people who are not used to this sort of thing can adapt to it and get more complex later on. But all in all, I think that good puzzles are also playable for a person completely new to the concept, as long as they are implemented well enough to give a totally blind gamer with no visual conception of things enough hints and audible feedback to get past them. Well, so much for my two cents. *smiles* Best regards Sarah --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I'm in favor of taking out randomness. I'm not overly concerned with scoring. My biggest point in this email, though: In the Tomb Raider games puzzles range from using a specific lever/switch to unlock a door to more advanced puzzles like jumping on certain pressure switches,hidden in the floor, in a certain order, to unlock a hidden passage, etc. All pretty cool, but I fear might be too advanced for most Vi gamers. As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. One of my biggest gripes with audio games to this point has been their overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. It's disheartening to pay 30 to 50 dollars for a title only to have completed it and exhausted much of the replay value within 48 hours. You have the power to change that. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items randomly placed. by all rights the water should ruin a scroll rendering it unreadable and worthless so randomizing in this case is not cool. Diddo for the monsters. it is perfectly fine for a skeleton or maybe a zombie to be swimming around in the water trying to kill you but it wouldn't work for a centaur, harpy, or several other enemy monsters I could name. Plus
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
hi tom. Ok, I aggree with you on the monsters thing. There are 2 ways you could accomplish this. 1. have randomised monsters per location. That is every location where monsters exist as is in the current release can have randomised monsters, unless for example these don't fit in which case you can have one type of monster, this includes minor bosses. 2. you could have one type of monster on each level getting harder, issue is this. THere are 2 ways to do this. each monster gets numerous the further you go, ending at a boss for that level. Then the next level has another type of monster. and then a harder boss. At some point all monsters could potentually exist at once in one room or every room at once, getting harder and harder and harder like battlezone which i have to cheat to win. Eventually you could end up with this mucho major mega powerfull unstoppable boss. The pros, sounds good. THe cons, it would probably drive loads of players away. Even I doubt that even I could face it all. The other way is to forget experience levels and like superliam just get it harder and harder to the final boss, but this means you can only really have one boss though like in sl you can have minor bosses. 2. traps and such. I have no idea about the traps but keeping the traps as they are would be my vote. 3. locking system. I have no idea if You have the code still but if you had the levers and keys systems both in then that would be good though I usually get everything I can get. Having the ability of monsters dodjing your fire if they are fast enough is another thing meaning you have to change direction. Next, random monsters can have items and bosses can always have items. Having impassable areas with maybe switches, levers and maybe moving rocks or something I don't know. I doubt that I would care for random question answer riddles or switches. At 09:13 p.m. 25/01/2011, you wrote: Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
well you could remove the randomised code while you test it and then add it back in later if you cared to. Issue is once people know where everything is then it won't matter if you have the game or not. At 09:43 p.m. 25/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Will, Yeah, that goes without saying. The big picture here is how to balance it out so it allows new/inexperienced gamers a serious chanse at playing plus give advanced gamers like myself something worth buying and continuing to play for some time to come. To give it replay value that holds the customer's attention without getting too old or boring too quickly. For example, one of the advantages of random monsters/items is no game is exactly the same game twice. This gives it a lot of replay value. However, on the flipside because no game is exactly quite the same I've never been able to properly test it fully or balance out technical aspects because there is no standardization here. It just is too random in my book. Smile. On 1/25/11, william lomas lomaswill...@googlemail.com wrote: I think we need more advanced elements and puzzles otherwise games we have will remain to easy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi tom. The chief reason I can see for random monsters, is to provide interest in the rest of your game. Gameplay wise Q9 scores over superliam in my book because while they have basically the same formular, walk along left to right, jump holes, smack stuff when close etc, q9 has randomly occurring monsters so that there is no possibility of just learning where things are. That being said, there really aren't many other factors to play with in a game like Q9. it has pits, it has monsters and power ups and that's it. No spaces to explore and certainly no puzles. Therefore the randomness makes up for this very nicely. In a conventional side scroller though, if the game mechanics, level size and difficulty are sufficiently worked out, there is more than enough to keep the gamer busy. Why are people even now stil playing games like original mario brothers and super metroid, even when they know the enemy positions very well. Because, the mechanics are stil a challenge, even if you do know where things are. I personally love discovering area specific enemies and bosses, and would much rather have this than randomness, - especially if the levels were far larger. As to puzles and traps, how about an easy mode for compromise. I'm not just thinking here of mucking about with game mechanics, but of something potentially plot specific which could provide audio help similar to the eva in shades of doom. Say, on easy mode angela takes a radio with her and has a mate on the surface with a sonar scanner who's monitoring the temple. Contacting this person in game will give her hints, for instance that's a pretty big fire pit, it'll take a major jump or I can trace workings running from that door to a leaver somewhere above and to the left A very similar system was used in Mega man aniversary collection, the rerelease of all the classic series games on the gamecube and ps2, where pausing the game would cause Dr. Light, roll, or some other of Mega man's allies to pop up with hints about especially difficult places in each level. This also doesn't mean you need to muck about with game mechanics for difficulty levels, altering monsters hp or turning on and off ledge warnings etc. Btw, I know LAra croft is something of a lone wolf, but Lara is also english! there's no reason for Angela to be exactly the same. As for voice acting, yes, it would probably take a fair few lines. However, there are certainly people in the audio games community who might be able to help, including myself, assuming you don't mind Angela having an English tech specialist assistant ;d. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. My reply: I know the feeling. That's why I want to break out of the simple game mold we have set for ourselves. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: As to puzles and traps, how about an easy mode for compromise. I'm not just thinking here of mucking about with game mechanics, but of something potentially plot specific which could provide audio help similar to the eva in shades of doom. Say, on easy mode angela takes a radio with her and has a mate on the surface with a sonar scanner who's monitoring the temple. Contacting this person in game will give her hints, for instance that's a pretty big fire pit, it'll take a major jump or I can trace workings running from that door to a leaver somewhere above and to the left My reply: That's not a bad idea. It is something to think about. I'll give it some thought. Dark wrote: Btw, I know LAra croft is something of a lone wolf, but Lara is also english! there's no reason for Angela to be exactly the same. My reply: Well, Lara Croft isn't quite the lone wolf she once was. In newer games like the recently released Guardian of Light you can play other characters besides Lara Croft who are helping her with her quest. If you play in two player mode one person can play Lara and the other can play her friend, forget the name, who is a Mayan warrior. This may actually be one of the factors why Guardian of Light has such high reviews. Besides game packs, good game play, etc you don't have to play Lara solo if you don't want too. You can play the game from different characters' perspectives. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, I am not sure why you can not have random monsters and specific monsters. The skeletons and other low level monsters should be random and show up everywhere and on all levels. But then you should have another specific monster class that shows up only where and when you decide. In the Sarah game, I decide which monsters show up on each level and how many of them. Then I also adjust the number and type plus adjusting their capabilities before the level starts depending on your difficulty setting. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Shaun, As I said in a prier e-mail doing that wouldn't really work. I could never balance the game that way. Let me explain it another way. Let's assume you enter the first room and you have a pistol with 15 rounds of ammo. There is a big ugly skeleton in their with a rusty dagger in his hand. Okay, killing that skeleton is easy. it is a freeby. More or less to get you into the game. Now, on a later level you might encounter a couple of centaurs. They take 15 rounds of ammo each to kill so you need a more powerful gun like a shotgun, uzi, whatever. That's fine since I could assume you have found said weapon earlier in the game and will balance out the hit points with the more powerful weapon or weapons. Now, assume I decide to go back and randomize things. Suddenly you enter room one with 15 rounds of ammo and there is a centaur in there you need a shotgun or uzi to kill. The game is absolutely unbalanced because that enemy requires a more powerful weapon and ammo you currently do not have yet. See the problem? This has been the key issue in writing the game. In order to design smooth and good game mechanics I have to assume you have a certain weapon or weapons to fight this or that enemy. If you randomize it, mix it all up, you might not find that weapon until the next level when you need it right now. That's why I haven't made it so you need a sword to kill certain bosses because I never could depend on that magical item being there when you or I needed it. Cheers! On 1/25/11, shaun everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well you could remove the randomised code while you test it and then add it back in later if you cared to. Issue is once people know where everything is then it won't matter if you have the game or not. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, Another suggestion about the placement of monsters. How about no random monsters, so they are positioned exactly where you want them. But then have a random removal of those monsters function at the start of each level. Phil --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Phil, Phil wrote: I am not sure why you can not have random monsters and specific monsters. In the Sarah game, I decide which monsters show up on each level and how many of them. Then I also adjust the number and type plus adjusting their capabilities before the level starts depending on your difficulty setting. My reply: Two reasons. To begin with I never wrote the game or game engine specifically with random items and monsters in mind. That was added well after the game and engine was in development. For one thing, instead of randomly placing items at the start of the level as you do in Sarah everything is randomly created right on the spot. If you leave room 1 and enter room 2 it automatically randomly places a monster and/or items in the room at the same time. As a result I can't limit the number of items, monsters, or anything else because all of this needs to be handled before the level starts not after. It's a pretty poor design and I know it. As I said, it was suppose to be a quick fix not a long term solution. This poor design is the cause of various other problems with the game. One, I can't limit the number of items or monsters per level. Two, you can't hear items as soon as you open the door because they aren't there until you actually enter the room. Third if you save and reload from your checkpoint everything will be totally different making it easier or harder than it would have been before just because not all of the rooms were filled with items and enemies. Of course, all of these issues can be fixed. However, what it takes is ripping out the temp random code and creating a better solution. This will take time to do, and if I'm going to rewrite the random monster/item code to do it right I want to be sure this is a serious issue for people or not. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hey Tom, That puzzle was used in technoshock, albeit with a bit more simplicity. S P O I L E R S P A C E On one of the levels there's a switch you need to press to get the teleporter to pop up on your side of a pit. The switch is too far away, though, so you have to ponder it until you get frustrated/wise enough to shoot it. I think descriptions of things like architecture throughout the level could take care of a lot of that, especially if you did them textually. Throw in a few red herring, and people will have to think about it a lot more. Ryan -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 5:07 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. My reply: I know the feeling. That's why I want to break out of the simple game mold we have set for ourselves. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Here are my thoughts: As for randomized monsters and items, I have definitely experienced how things can be unbalanced, and I would be OK with completely unrandomizing things. Or, what about partial randomization? For example, you could only allow skeletons and zombies on level 1, add in centaurs on level 2, etc. but let the actual placement of them be randomized. Also, you could disallow scrolls and weapons if the room contained water. Then you can also make rooms which need to have something specific for some reason contain that specific object. As for puzzles and traps, I Would recommend you add in more difficult traps. I am going to illustrate a point with a puzzle from the last level of technoshock so: S P O I L E R As per your example with the pit in tomb rader, I will take a puzzle from Technoshock. On level 6, you start out in a room with a switch and no obvious way out. This is something which is quite similar to the very first level in which there are two rooms with a switch and an electric force field. So, you walk up and flip the switch...immediately falling into the pit which just opened beneath you. You must stand back, shoot the switch, then quickly turn around and jump the pit which has also opened behind you before the door closes. Things like this would be very easy to do in MOTA. I like Dark's idea of using sound for various decorations and floor surfaces which sometimes do something and sometimes don't. I wouldn't let uncertainty of how to do something in audio hold you back from trying something. Ask your beta team and/or the list for ideas on how to do a given trap. You could also put a trap into a private beta and see how your team handles it. Two things that the very original Montezuma's Revenge by Alchemy had which I would like to see in MOTA are vines which you would gradually slide down, forcing you to keep climbing back up or fall off the bottom, and treasures which you had to react quickly to catch. I would also like to see the burning rope concept return to MOTA. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 3:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, I would personally very much suggest that you do this, both from a gamer's and a developer's standpoint. From a gamer's because it provides for more realism since, as you say, you can actually hear monsters properly etc and it provides for some randomization while still following your plot with specific monsters in specific places. And from a developer's because it just makes the whole thing a lot easier to maintain, balance, and customize. If you generate everything at the start of the level you have a boatload of extra control that you lack with the design you currently describe. This of course does not mean that you need to have all the sounds playing at once since that kills hardware a lot more than just loading them and having them in ram. What I do in Q9 is load one copy of every sound, and then use those to clone things whenever they get near enough to be heard. So essentially I do start the sounds for things on the fly as they approach, but they are just being cloned so you get no lag. The original buffers that actually allocated the memory are kept silent, in a separate preload list. Just my two cents. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Phil, Phil wrote: I am not sure why you can not have random monsters and specific monsters. In the Sarah game, I decide which monsters show up on each level and how many of them. Then I also adjust the number and type plus adjusting their capabilities before the level starts depending on your difficulty setting. My reply: Two reasons. To begin with I never wrote the game or game engine specifically with random items and monsters in mind. That was added well after the game and engine was in development. For one thing, instead of randomly placing items at the start of the level as you do in Sarah everything is randomly created right on the spot. If you leave room 1 and enter room 2 it automatically randomly places a monster and/or items in the room at the same time. As a result I can't limit the number of items, monsters, or anything else because all of this needs to be handled before the level starts not after. It's a pretty poor design and I know it. As I said, it was suppose to be a quick fix not a long term solution. This poor design is the cause of various other problems with the game. One, I can't limit the number of items or monsters per level. Two, you can't hear items as soon as you open the door because they aren't there until you actually enter the room. Third if you save and reload from your checkpoint everything will be totally different making it easier or harder than it would have been before just because not all of the rooms were filled with items and enemies. Of course, all of these issues can be fixed. However, what it takes is ripping out the temp random code and creating a better solution. This will take time to do, and if I'm going to rewrite the random monster/item code to do it right I want to be sure this is a serious issue for people or not. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi tom I personally preffer the randomness of the game, it keeps the player on their toes and doesn't become boring to expect the same monsters in the same places all of the time. I know of a few games where the monsters are always in the same place and good though they are, a bit of randomness is a good replay value for the game. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:13 AM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items randomly placed. by all rights the water should ruin a scroll rendering it unreadable and worthless so randomizing in this case is not cool. Diddo for the monsters. it is perfectly fine for a skeleton or maybe a zombie to be swimming around in the water trying to kill you but it wouldn't work for a centaur, harpy, or several other enemy monsters I could name. Plus a lot of games I know have a lot of one kind of enemy on one level, and a lot of a different kind on another level. For example, level 1 might have an army of skeletons because they are fairly easy to kill/fight and while there might be a lot of them around they still aren't a serious threat. Later levels might feature harpies, and another one centaurs, and another one zombies. The reason I point this out is that mainstream games often use miner enemies in lower levels and progress to more difficult enemies as you progress.In Tomb Raider Prophecy, for example, it starts you out with fighting gray wolves and ax wielding skeletons. Later levels introduce you to more hostile/difficult enemies such as black fire breathing wolves, undead priests that cast fireballs, and even the skeletons will throw
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Tom, since I have been there playing the game from your first Alpha onwards, I have been with it from the start. About random enemies/objects: drop it. I have had that problem of encountering a centauer in the first level with only the standard gun as a weapon, with nothing else. Even on easy that's not really good for your health in the game. Besides, as you are right, we don't need flying creatures under water, while skeletons or zombies might be in the water. Besides, if things are randomiced, you don't know if you can fight a boss or have to run for it. If I play the current version of the game and I have the sword, I'll fight the bosses of the two levels currently playable. If not, I'll fire whatever I currently have, but not to kill, but to get trough that room with as few damage as possible. Besides, for the current version I haven't seen the use of scrolls besides something you can pick up yet. And because I don't know what's in the next room, there are situations where I whish I'd found something different than a scroll. About jumping over trabs: Before Beta 16 (couldn't use Beta 15 due to unforeseen crash of Windows), there was that problem when you stood one or two meters from a fire pid and had to use the view command after every step to find out if you could jump or not. The fact that panning and adjustments of sounds did not change step by step also was a problem, because it sounded like you were zero steps away from the pid, but had a few more to go before jumping. When dealing with casms, you have that warning sound before you have to jump and I think before fire or lava you should do it like in Q9. The other problem the older beta versions had was that when you intended to just walk one step, you walked more than one step occasionally, but getting one step sound but you fell into fire because you did not go one step, but at least two... Also, there is that spike situation in the current level two where you jump over one to stand exactly between two of them and you have to do another jump. When I first came to that I died, because I did not know if I had to walk a few steps before jumping, because it was like with two fire pids after each other or something. Only after using the view command, I got aware of that thing. And when finding the next spike trab (more than one) there were few steps between them. But doing it like in Q9 is probably the best. I'd like to have something like the old arcade mode of the old Monti game you originally made. And about riddles: If it is possible to make some riddles that work with audio, I'm for doing it. So this could expand the plot of the game, because up to now, we only have the first two levels without any cut scenes or some other story relevant events. Besides, a goddess surely would protect her treasures with more than just zombies and such undeath creatures. If she has magic, more things are possible, so if there can be some things like jumping on switches in the floor for example, that's a good idea. Just a short question about trabs and items. What happened to either such things as the wanishing platforms to cross some trabs instead of the bridges or bridges that only hold you for a time before breaking, and something like the force fields or other timed trabs in general? And last of all, warping or teleporting, like the old Monti had, where you can reach other unexplored areas instead of unlocking and opening regular doors with regular keys? That's what I have to say for now and I am awaiting the new beta now. Bye, Michael --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. My reply: I know the feeling. That's why I want to break out of the simple game mold we have set for ourselves. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Karl, Thanks for the comments. As for your comment about partial randomization that's part of the problem. As I was explaining to Phil earlier when I added that random code I didn't do it in such a way that would provide partial randomization or take certain types of special conditions into account. I was in a bit of a hurry to get the feature in the game, just put in a quicky to please people, and as a result it was very poorly designed from the outset. Now, of course I sorely regret that decision as I'm looking at an extensive rewrite of a fair amount of code to fix it, or just turn it off and just placeing things where they should go. As for sliding vines etc I liked that too, but there are somethings that don't really fit into the Mysteries of the Ancients storyline. This is suppose to be an ancient Greek temple/tomb and jungle vines just wouldn't fit into this particular storyline. Of course, if we were to return to South America using the Incas, Aztecs, or Mayans then that would be perfectly fine. Now, that we are on the topic in a way I sort of wish I had stuck with the Aztecs, Mayans, or Incas instead of relocating the game to grease. For one thing I could have a jungle level avoiding quicksand, fighting giant snakes, enemy tomb robbers, sliding vines, etc. Ah, well, another idea for another game I suppose. Cheers! On 1/25/11, Karl Belanger karl.belan...@comcast.net wrote: Here are my thoughts: As for randomized monsters and items, I have definitely experienced how things can be unbalanced, and I would be OK with completely unrandomizing things. Or, what about partial randomization? For example, you could only allow skeletons and zombies on level 1, add in centaurs on level 2, etc. but let the actual placement of them be randomized. Also, you could disallow scrolls and weapons if the room contained water. Then you can also make rooms which need to have something specific for some reason contain that specific object. As for puzzles and traps, I Would recommend you add in more difficult traps. I am going to illustrate a point with a puzzle from the last level of technoshock so: S P O I L E R As per your example with the pit in tomb rader, I will take a puzzle from Technoshock. On level 6, you start out in a room with a switch and no obvious way out. This is something which is quite similar to the very first level in which there are two rooms with a switch and an electric force field. So, you walk up and flip the switch...immediately falling into the pit which just opened beneath you. You must stand back, shoot the switch, then quickly turn around and jump the pit which has also opened behind you before the door closes. Things like this would be very easy to do in MOTA. I like Dark's idea of using sound for various decorations and floor surfaces which sometimes do something and sometimes don't. I wouldn't let uncertainty of how to do something in audio hold you back from trying something. Ask your beta team and/or the list for ideas on how to do a given trap. You could also put a trap into a private beta and see how your team handles it. Two things that the very original Montezuma's Revenge by Alchemy had which I would like to see in MOTA are vines which you would gradually slide down, forcing you to keep climbing back up or fall off the bottom, and treasures which you had to react quickly to catch. I would also like to see the burning rope concept return to MOTA. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Michael, Michael wrote: Just a short question about traps and items. What happened to such things as the vanishing platforms to cross some traps instead of the bridges or bridges that only hold you for a time before breaking, and something like the force fields or other timed traps in general? My reply: Well, to be honest when I started writing Mysteries of the Ancients I was concerned about being too close to Montezuma's Revenge and cut or excluded various things I didn't think worked well with the new game and storyline. That said, there has been some requests for things like vanishing platforms, electric fields, etc so they may return at some point. All depends on what traps I come up with for the game. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Damien, You just hit upon one of my main concerns. Your definition and my ddefinition of easy and hard is vastly different. Below you explained that you have problems with games like Shades of Doom where I have beaten it several times. I have even beaten it a few times on the highest difficulty setting. That doesn't make you stupid or anything like that, but there is an obvious difference in my skill level as a gamer and your skill level as a gamer. I personally thrive on games like Shades of Doom, because that is closest to mainstream games I've played in the past. I'm sure there will be plenty of buyers for a game of that level of complexity, but it just seams there are a number of VI gamers that just don't have what it takes for whatever reason. On 1/25/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote: Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, Well this is it. I feel awful about that, because I feel that if somebody else can do it, then technically and theoretically I should be able to. I'm one of these people who believes that anything is possible. Yet when I sit down for years and years to try and read from rather extensive C/C++ tutorials, when I sit down for maybe a few hours at a time, again for years, to learn the practical aspects of game play for some games, play them, etc, and getting nowhere with both endeavours, I personally feel like I'm no good at it, because then that impairs upon my possibilities as a developer as well as my skills as a gamer. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 1:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Damien, You just hit upon one of my main concerns. Your definition and my ddefinition of easy and hard is vastly different. Below you explained that you have problems with games like Shades of Doom where I have beaten it several times. I have even beaten it a few times on the highest difficulty setting. That doesn't make you stupid or anything like that, but there is an obvious difference in my skill level as a gamer and your skill level as a gamer. I personally thrive on games like Shades of Doom, because that is closest to mainstream games I've played in the past. I'm sure there will be plenty of buyers for a game of that level of complexity, but it just seams there are a number of VI gamers that just don't have what it takes for whatever reason. On 1/25/11, Damien Pendleton dam...@x-sight-interactive.net wrote: Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Tom, Just a couple things: 1. If you put an arcade mode in, can you have a high score server? I.E. We could submit our high scores to scoreboards on the internet like with Pipe, Troopanum, ETC, and compete with each other? If you can, I'd say definitely I'd like an arcade mode. If you can't, I'd say nah, leave it out. 2. I say stick with not having random monsters if it'll make the game easier to make/test. I'm tired of people complaining that our audio games are too easy. In my opinion, I think you're probably losing sales because the game could be much more challenging, the replay value could be more, and it could be ten times more difficult. Most games we have, we can beat in one day. I'd like to see something that takes a while to beat, puzzles we could spend hours trying to figure out, ETC. What I'm basically saying is, please, make the game the way you want it to be made. If it's something similar to Toomb Rader, then go for it. People complain that our games are too easy, but they're completely against making them more difficult. I hope my comments were of some use to you. I for one, would much rather the game be challenging, then it be too easy. I know this isn't your goal really, but what I say to people that wine and complain is, if the game is too challenging, or you can't handle it, don't buy it. There's those of us that will buy the game; I believe a majority of the blind community would rather play something more resembling to a sited person's game. Ryan -- Original Message -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 03:13:26 -0500 Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, I think nere the firepits and other traps there should be monsters which are random. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 8:43 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Will, Yeah, that goes without saying. The big picture here is how to balance it out so it allows new/inexperienced gamers a serious chanse at playing plus give advanced gamers like myself something worth buying and continuing to play for some time to come. To give it replay value that holds the customer's attention without getting too old or boring too quickly. For example, one of the advantages of random monsters/items is no game is exactly the same game twice. This gives it a lot of replay value. However, on the flipside because no game is exactly quite the same I've never been able to properly test it fully or balance out technical aspects because there is no standardization here. It just is too random in my book. Smile. On 1/25/11, william lomas lomaswill...@googlemail.com wrote: I think we need more advanced elements and puzzles otherwise games we have will remain to easy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
well I don't mind if centors exist in one room, sod has been a replayed over and over. While its true some monsters are not random, items still are and I still come back again and again. same with gtc. these are really old games now and I still play em. At 02:30 a.m. 26/01/2011, you wrote: Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. My reply: I know the feeling. That's why I want to break out of the simple game mold we have set for ourselves. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Blankblock? If you can play Tank Commander you can play that one. If you have to make a physical board out of it. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments well I don't mind if centors exist in one room, sod has been a replayed over and over. While its true some monsters are not random, items still are and I still come back again and again. same with gtc. these are really old games now and I still play em. At 02:30 a.m. 26/01/2011, you wrote: Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming simplicity. I beat Grizzly Gulch a day after purchasing it. Monkey Business took a day and a half. Super Liam took another day. All of these games were fun in their own right, but nothing has compared--especially in action/adventure titles--to mainstream difficulty. My reply: I know the feeling. That's why I want to break out of the simple game mold we have set for ourselves. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Blankblock is more complicated than Tank Commander. There are no puzzles in Tank Commander. No mazes, no real traps if you have enough sense to scan the area to avoid them, and all your missions and exits explained at the beginning of the level. Blankblock is all about jigsaw working, which I just cannot do for some reason. It's like SoundPuzzle, 15 numbers, Sudoku, Chess and the like. I have never got to grips with how it works. Even after I read and had sessions with a friend with a physical puzzle board and chess board I still didn't understand the logic and sense behind it. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, Blankblock? If you can play Tank Commander you can play that one. If you have to make a physical board out of it. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of shaun everiss Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 12:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments well I don't mind if centors exist in one room, sod has been a replayed over and over. While its true some monsters are not random, items still are and I still come back again and again. same with gtc. these are really old games now and I still play em. At 02:30 a.m. 26/01/2011, you wrote: Hi, To be honest though, it all depends on just how complex something is. There are some games that I just cannot play because of the complexity of it. For example, I can't do some of the games where you can turn at angles etc, like Shades of Doom, Monkey Business etc. I purchased some of the titles so that I could really sit down and study them, but I feel it's just been a waste of my money. Same with the puzzles. True, once I beat Chillingham I was happy, but while I couldn't do those puzzles I was constantly frustrated as to which way I should go and what I should do. Games like Change Reaction, Monkey Business, 15 Numbers, Sudoku, Blankblock etc are just so complicated for me. Even my partner struggles with these sorts of games. Whether it's the blindness, the way we've been taught, or other conditions we have, I don't know. But the only games that we did on our own that has some degree of what we call complexity are tank commander, the last crusade and descent into madness. If you couldn't see the picture, or in the case of an audiogame hear the object, then how are we supposed to know exactly how to do something? If there is no logic behind it, like for example the puzzle in Chillingham used to open the back door in the church... I'm pretty much flustered over it all. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 11:07 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, Ryan wrote: As it stands now, you may be right, but I don't think that's a good reason not to include such puzzles. If we keep the bar intentionally low, we'll never teach people to jump higher. My reply: That's quite true, but my concern is actually translating some of these complex puzzles into audio. Some of the things in Tomb Raider are extremely visual, challenging, and not the easiest thing to pull off even if you can see. That's what makes people keep buying those games. For example, recently my wife purchased a copy of the latest installment of the Tomb Raider saga for me, Guardian of Light, which is arguably the best Tomb Raider title in years. It is challenging, very fast paced, has great replay value, and well is a real treat for TR fans. Anyway, On level one there is this large spike pit Lara Croft has to cross. She can't jump over it, can't swing over it, can't walk over it, and can't run over it. It is one of those cases that will have you scratching your head wondering how to get passed that trap. As it turns out on the other side of the trap there is this picture on the wall which is in fact a pressure switch. If you throw a spear at it or shoot it with Lara's magnum it will cause the spikes to lower, and Lara can cross safely to the other side. In a visual game they can hide a solution like that in plane view and it still requires a bit of guess work and trial and error. In an audio game how do you clue someone in that there is a certain place on the wall they must shoot? If you make some sort of audio indication this is were you must shoot then you give the solution to the puzzle away. If you use the view command to tell them that the picture is there it isn't as much of a dead give away, but could cause trouble aiming at the picture. Either way, converting puzzles like that to audio are difficult, and I'm not quite sure how to do it in an accessible format. Ryan wroe: overwhelming
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi, Not to be picky but I'm not sure why you're replacing ps with bs and ts with ds. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:25 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, since I have been there playing the game from your first Alpha onwards, I have been with it from the start. About random enemies/objects: drop it. I have had that problem of encountering a centauer in the first level with only the standard gun as a weapon, with nothing else. Even on easy that's not really good for your health in the game. Besides, as you are right, we don't need flying creatures under water, while skeletons or zombies might be in the water. Besides, if things are randomiced, you don't know if you can fight a boss or have to run for it. If I play the current version of the game and I have the sword, I'll fight the bosses of the two levels currently playable. If not, I'll fire whatever I currently have, but not to kill, but to get trough that room with as few damage as possible. Besides, for the current version I haven't seen the use of scrolls besides something you can pick up yet. And because I don't know what's in the next room, there are situations where I whish I'd found something different than a scroll. About jumping over trabs: Before Beta 16 (couldn't use Beta 15 due to unforeseen crash of Windows), there was that problem when you stood one or two meters from a fire pid and had to use the view command after every step to find out if you could jump or not. The fact that panning and adjustments of sounds did not change step by step also was a problem, because it sounded like you were zero steps away from the pid, but had a few more to go before jumping. When dealing with casms, you have that warning sound before you have to jump and I think before fire or lava you should do it like in Q9. The other problem the older beta versions had was that when you intended to just walk one step, you walked more than one step occasionally, but getting one step sound but you fell into fire because you did not go one step, but at least two... Also, there is that spike situation in the current level two where you jump over one to stand exactly between two of them and you have to do another jump. When I first came to that I died, because I did not know if I had to walk a few steps before jumping, because it was like with two fire pids after each other or something. Only after using the view command, I got aware of that thing. And when finding the next spike trab (more than one) there were few steps between them. But doing it like in Q9 is probably the best. I'd like to have something like the old arcade mode of the old Monti game you originally made. And about riddles: If it is possible to make some riddles that work with audio, I'm for doing it. So this could expand the plot of the game, because up to now, we only have the first two levels without any cut scenes or some other story relevant events. Besides, a goddess surely would protect her treasures with more than just zombies and such undeath creatures. If she has magic, more things are possible, so if there can be some things like jumping on switches in the floor for example, that's a good idea. Just a short question about trabs and items. What happened to either such things as the wanishing platforms to cross some trabs instead of the bridges or bridges that only hold you for a time before breaking, and something like the force fields or other timed trabs in general? And last of all, warping or teleporting, like the old Monti had, where you can reach other unexplored areas instead of unlocking and opening regular doors with regular keys? That's what I have to say for now and I am awaiting the new beta now. Bye, Michael --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Puzzles? Once solved, do they detract from the challenge and replay value? A classic example of this is the first game put out by Bavisoft. Traps? I like the way that Q9's pits are, in that you can still fall into pits even with the muddy warning. Could it be possible to place a landing halfway across a chasm that you have to judge the location of, time your jump so as not to go too far or not far enough, or, well, I do like these vanishing platforms, so that is also an option. Arcade mode and scoring would be high on my list to add replay value by, if it is set up like GMA Tank Commander, give the opportunity to continue the game even though mistakes are made, thus getting farther into the game, and scoring would add replay value by being able to compare my scores with those of other gamers, trying to beat them. These features would probably be somewhere within the top 4 and 5 out of 10 on my favorite features list if I had to put them somewhere. Randomness? I do see where you're coming from on this issue, and, although I do like the idea, if more easily beaten monsters are found on the first few levels, and progressively fiendish ones appear in middle and later levels, this would be a way to make the first levels easier than the last, making the game progressively harder to complete. I'd say to make the game your way. --- Laughter is the best medicine, so look around, find a dose and take it to heart. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 2:13 AM Subject: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi everyone, Okay, here is the deal. Beta 17 is almost ready for public release and it may appear as early as Friday/Saturday barring any unforseen issues/problems. Which brings me to the point of this e-mail. Basically, if there is any last minute comments, suggestions, or input you would like to give before the release goes public. In particular a few issues I didn't quite get too in my last e-mail on Mysteries of the Ancients last week. A few days ago I sent a post regarding new Mysteries of the Ancients levels. Most of you understood this as a question of keeping old levels or creating new ones. Unfortunately, I didn't make myself clear in that e-mail but I was looking more for suggestions and input on various aspects besides that question. So I'll address each of them hear directly. Random Items/Monsters --- I know back in the early days of MOTA this was one of the number one requests for the game. Ever since I added it some time back it remains one of the top selling points of the game, but what you may not know or have considered is that like anything else it has pros and cons. As I sit hear thinking about the future of the project as a whole I can't help feel like the cons outway the advantages of a more triditional mainstream side-scroller without random monsters, items, etc. For one thing I've been playing mainstream games all of my life, and the majority of games do not have randomly placed monsters and items. Instead monsters and items are usually placed in the same general location each and every game with the same general stats. There are a number of advantages of doing it this way. For starts balancing game play. When you have a fully random game like we have now you don't really know what monster you will be facing, or B, what its stats will be when you do face it. While I don't doubt this adds replay value for some gamers I also know it makes it impossible to test and balance correctly because I never know from one moment to the next what to expect from the game. Games that have fixed monsters and challenges don't generally have this problem. For example, in the original Tomb Raider game there is a Greek temple Lara Croft has to explore in order to find one of the lost pieces of the scion. There is a chamber inside the Greek temple with two centaurs that were transformed into stone centuries ago. When Lara accidently lifts the spell on the centaurs they come to life, and she has to fight them to get the missing piece of the scion. Besides being a major element of the plot/story they just wouldn't fit anywhere else in the game as an enemy. In this case those enemies generally wouldn't be good to randomly place in the game. When it comes to mysteries of the Ancients I often find myself in a similar situation. There are certain rooms or areas were one monster or enemy is better than another. Rooms were it might be practical not to randomize anything and just place items there by default. For example, imagine swimming underwater. Putting treasures like gold coins and gems in the water is perfectly fine since the water couldn't damage them. If we were randomly placing items, as we do now, it would put things like ammo, swords, scrolls, etc in the water were we wouldn' want those items randomly placed. by all rights the water should ruin a scroll
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
It could be that English isn't his native language. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 4:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi, Not to be picky but I'm not sure why you're replacing ps with bs and ts with ds. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Michael Gauler Sent: Tuesday, January 25, 2011 7:25 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Tom, since I have been there playing the game from your first Alpha onwards, I have been with it from the start. About random enemies/objects: drop it. I have had that problem of encountering a centauer in the first level with only the standard gun as a weapon, with nothing else. Even on easy that's not really good for your health in the game. Besides, as you are right, we don't need flying creatures under water, while skeletons or zombies might be in the water. Besides, if things are randomiced, you don't know if you can fight a boss or have to run for it. If I play the current version of the game and I have the sword, I'll fight the bosses of the two levels currently playable. If not, I'll fire whatever I currently have, but not to kill, but to get trough that room with as few damage as possible. Besides, for the current version I haven't seen the use of scrolls besides something you can pick up yet. And because I don't know what's in the next room, there are situations where I whish I'd found something different than a scroll. About jumping over trabs: Before Beta 16 (couldn't use Beta 15 due to unforeseen crash of Windows), there was that problem when you stood one or two meters from a fire pid and had to use the view command after every step to find out if you could jump or not. The fact that panning and adjustments of sounds did not change step by step also was a problem, because it sounded like you were zero steps away from the pid, but had a few more to go before jumping. When dealing with casms, you have that warning sound before you have to jump and I think before fire or lava you should do it like in Q9. The other problem the older beta versions had was that when you intended to just walk one step, you walked more than one step occasionally, but getting one step sound but you fell into fire because you did not go one step, but at least two... Also, there is that spike situation in the current level two where you jump over one to stand exactly between two of them and you have to do another jump. When I first came to that I died, because I did not know if I had to walk a few steps before jumping, because it was like with two fire pids after each other or something. Only after using the view command, I got aware of that thing. And when finding the next spike trab (more than one) there were few steps between them. But doing it like in Q9 is probably the best. I'd like to have something like the old arcade mode of the old Monti game you originally made. And about riddles: If it is possible to make some riddles that work with audio, I'm for doing it. So this could expand the plot of the game, because up to now, we only have the first two levels without any cut scenes or some other story relevant events. Besides, a goddess surely would protect her treasures with more than just zombies and such undeath creatures. If she has magic, more things are possible, so if there can be some things like jumping on switches in the floor for example, that's a good idea. Just a short question about trabs and items. What happened to either such things as the wanishing platforms to cross some trabs instead of the bridges or bridges that only hold you for a time before breaking, and something like the force fields or other timed trabs in general? And last of all, warping or teleporting, like the old Monti had, where you can reach other unexplored areas instead of unlocking and opening regular doors with regular keys? That's what I have to say for now and I am awaiting the new beta now. Bye, Michael --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Ryan, About arcade mode. Score servers and things like that is something we can consider in the future. For now I was mainly thinking of a classic arcade mode where it keeps track of your top 10 scores and you try to best your own score. Plus by having an arcade mode there are other things we could add such as unlockable trophies that are rewarded if you aaccomplish a certain task in the game. For example, in Guardian of Light if you finish level 1 in under 6 minutes you get a Mayan head dress in your list of trophies. For some people playing for trophies and trying to unlock them all is a challenge and reward in itself for playing a game more than once. HTH On 1/25/11, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote: Hi Tom, Just a couple things: 1. If you put an arcade mode in, can you have a high score server? I.E. We could submit our high scores to scoreboards on the internet like with Pipe, Troopanum, ETC, and compete with each other? If you can, I'd say definitely I'd like an arcade mode. If you can't, I'd say nah, leave it out. 2. I say stick with not having random monsters if it'll make the game easier to make/test. I'm tired of people complaining that our audio games are too easy. In my opinion, I think you're probably losing sales because the game could be much more challenging, the replay value could be more, and it could be ten times more difficult. Most games we have, we can beat in one day. I'd like to see something that takes a while to beat, puzzles we could spend hours trying to figure out, ETC. What I'm basically saying is, please, make the game the way you want it to be made. If it's something similar to Toomb Rader, then go for it. People complain that our games are too easy, but they're completely against making them more difficult. I hope my comments were of some use to you. I for one, would much rather the game be challenging, then it be too easy. I know this isn't your goal really, but what I say to people that wine and complain is, if the game is too challenging, or you can't handle it, don't buy it. There's those of us that will buy the game; I believe a majority of the blind community would rather play something more resembling to a sited person's game. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Thomas, I do think that would be nice. That's why I like Judgment Day so much, mainly for the trophies. It adds replay value to the game and could enable greater flexibility, like reward upgrades, purchasable upgrades and the like. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, About arcade mode. Score servers and things like that is something we can consider in the future. For now I was mainly thinking of a classic arcade mode where it keeps track of your top 10 scores and you try to best your own score. Plus by having an arcade mode there are other things we could add such as unlockable trophies that are rewarded if you aaccomplish a certain task in the game. For example, in Guardian of Light if you finish level 1 in under 6 minutes you get a Mayan head dress in your list of trophies. For some people playing for trophies and trying to unlock them all is a challenge and reward in itself for playing a game more than once. HTH On 1/25/11, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote: Hi Tom, Just a couple things: 1. If you put an arcade mode in, can you have a high score server? I.E. We could submit our high scores to scoreboards on the internet like with Pipe, Troopanum, ETC, and compete with each other? If you can, I'd say definitely I'd like an arcade mode. If you can't, I'd say nah, leave it out. 2. I say stick with not having random monsters if it'll make the game easier to make/test. I'm tired of people complaining that our audio games are too easy. In my opinion, I think you're probably losing sales because the game could be much more challenging, the replay value could be more, and it could be ten times more difficult. Most games we have, we can beat in one day. I'd like to see something that takes a while to beat, puzzles we could spend hours trying to figure out, ETC. What I'm basically saying is, please, make the game the way you want it to be made. If it's something similar to Toomb Rader, then go for it. People complain that our games are too easy, but they're completely against making them more difficult. I hope my comments were of some use to you. I for one, would much rather the game be challenging, then it be too easy. I know this isn't your goal really, but what I say to people that wine and complain is, if the game is too challenging, or you can't handle it, don't buy it. There's those of us that will buy the game; I believe a majority of the blind community would rather play something more resembling to a sited person's game. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Charles, Charles wrote: Puzzles? Once solved, do they detract from the challenge and replay value? A classic example of this is the first game put out by Bavisoft. My reply: I don't think so. As long as there are more challenges besides the puzzles in place there will be plenty to offer a gamer. Especially, if the puzzle requires certain timing or requires practice. For example, in Tomb Raider Underworld there is this room with a giant wheel on the wall. Turning this wheel reveals a trap door hidden in the ceiling. The catch is that once you turn the wheel all the way it will start turning the other way closing the trap door. The trick is to climb the wall, using hand/foot holds, and slip through that trap door before it closes and llocks you in. So even though you discovered how to open the trap door it is timed in such a way that you might save and reload your last checkpoint several times trying to time it just right. Charles wrote: Traps? I like the way that Q9's pits are, in that you can still fall into pits even with the muddy warning. Could it be possible to place a landing halfway across a chasm that you have to judge the location of, time your jump so as not to go too far or not far enough, or, well, I do like these vanishing platforms, so that is also an option. My reply: Right. I've thought about that. If there is a huge chasm or lava pit you might have to jump onto a ledge somewhere in the middle of the trap and jump from there to the other side. This would require good timing and/or practice to get it just right. Challenging but could be done with some practice. Another thing I've thought about is some sort of grappling hook. In the Tomb Raider games, at least the newer ones, there are some traps Lara can't jump over, but she can use her grappling hook to swing over it. This would require judging where to stand to cast the hook, where to jump/swing, how long to swing, etc. Plus if we had a grappling hook we might not need ropes per say. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I like the idea of trophies, very much. -- Original Message -- From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2011 22:17:24 -0500 Hi Ryan, About arcade mode. Score servers and things like that is something we can consider in the future. For now I was mainly thinking of a classic arcade mode where it keeps track of your top 10 scores and you try to best your own score. Plus by having an arcade mode there are other things we could add such as unlockable trophies that are rewarded if you aaccomplish a certain task in the game. For example, in Guardian of Light if you finish level 1 in under 6 minutes you get a Mayan head dress in your list of trophies. For some people playing for trophies and trying to unlock them all is a challenge and reward in itself for playing a game more than once. HTH On 1/25/11, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote: Hi Tom, Just a couple things: 1. If you put an arcade mode in, can you have a high score server? I.E. We could submit our high scores to scoreboards on the internet like with Pipe, Troopanum, ETC, and compete with each other? If you can, I'd say definitely I'd like an arcade mode. If you can't, I'd say nah, leave it out. 2. I say stick with not having random monsters if it'll make the game easier to make/test. I'm tired of people complaining that our audio games are too easy. In my opinion, I think you're probably losing sales because the game could be much more challenging, the replay value could be more, and it could be ten times more difficult. Most games we have, we can beat in one day. I'd like to see something that takes a while to beat, puzzles we could spend hours trying to figure out, ETC. What I'm basically saying is, please, make the game the way you want it to be made. If it's something similar to Toomb Rader, then go for it. People complain that our games are too easy, but they're completely against making them more difficult. I hope my comments were of some use to you. I for one, would much rather the game be challenging, then it be too easy. I know this isn't your goal really, but what I say to people that wine and complain is, if the game is too challenging, or you can't handle it, don't buy it. There's those of us that will buy the game; I believe a majority of the blind community would rather play something more resembling to a sited person's game. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Globe Life Insurance $1* Buys $50,000 Life Insurance. Adults or Children. No Medical Exam. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL3131/4d3fa88692f8a5a6b0st02vuc --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
I'm fairly indifferent on the score front, but I love the trophy idea, exactly as you said, trying to unlock them all is a challenge I really appreciate. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 3:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Ryan, About arcade mode. Score servers and things like that is something we can consider in the future. For now I was mainly thinking of a classic arcade mode where it keeps track of your top 10 scores and you try to best your own score. Plus by having an arcade mode there are other things we could add such as unlockable trophies that are rewarded if you aaccomplish a certain task in the game. For example, in Guardian of Light if you finish level 1 in under 6 minutes you get a Mayan head dress in your list of trophies. For some people playing for trophies and trying to unlock them all is a challenge and reward in itself for playing a game more than once. HTH On 1/25/11, Ryan Conroy staindadd...@juno.com wrote: Hi Tom, Just a couple things: 1. If you put an arcade mode in, can you have a high score server? I.E. We could submit our high scores to scoreboards on the internet like with Pipe, Troopanum, ETC, and compete with each other? If you can, I'd say definitely I'd like an arcade mode. If you can't, I'd say nah, leave it out. 2. I say stick with not having random monsters if it'll make the game easier to make/test. I'm tired of people complaining that our audio games are too easy. In my opinion, I think you're probably losing sales because the game could be much more challenging, the replay value could be more, and it could be ten times more difficult. Most games we have, we can beat in one day. I'd like to see something that takes a while to beat, puzzles we could spend hours trying to figure out, ETC. What I'm basically saying is, please, make the game the way you want it to be made. If it's something similar to Toomb Rader, then go for it. People complain that our games are too easy, but they're completely against making them more difficult. I hope my comments were of some use to you. I for one, would much rather the game be challenging, then it be too easy. I know this isn't your goal really, but what I say to people that wine and complain is, if the game is too challenging, or you can't handle it, don't buy it. There's those of us that will buy the game; I believe a majority of the blind community would rather play something more resembling to a sited person's game. Ryan --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Tom, it's actually something of an irony. I've always been able to play complex 2d games like Metroid Mega man and turrican, but one of the most depressing experiences of my life was when I found at the age of about 14 that games like Mario 64 and original tomb rader were utterly unplayable, both because of lack of contrasting graphics, and because of my spacial awareness problem. Indeed, that was one of the main things that interested me in audio games to begin with, because playing Shades of doom let me experience something I hadn't before. Even so, I stil find some 3D audio games without the correct navigation features, such as monkey business and even lone wolf completely unplayable because of the difficulty I have comprehending space. Someone here mentioned blank block, again a game I find utterly impossible myself because I simply cannot maintain a spacial memory of the board, neither can I play chess just with audio no matter how good the board review features are. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 4:12 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments Hi Dark, True enough. Strangely though when it comes to creating level maps in my mind I can not for the life of me think of them in 2d. I suppose because when I was sighted I saw everything in 3d so when I start mapping things I automatically think of things having 3d left, right, up down, front, back. So part of my problem of thinking of how to draw these levels is imagining it with only up/down or left/right. Basically, I suppose a lot of VI gamers have problems with 3d, viewing it as more complex, but I am totally the opposite. I have a problem with complex 2d worlds because they lack some visual element for me. So creating a side-scroller, for me, is harder than creating a 3d FPS. Smile. On 1/25/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: That to an extent is true Tom, but equally bare in mind that 2D is spacially easier than 3D. Many of the problems some people have with 3D are simply space orientated, heck, if it weren't for good nav features in the gma engine and terraformers I couldn't play them myself, and in fact find monkey business and technoshock utterly impossible! There has never been a complex side scroller in audio, so there is no guide to what is or is not hard. Myself, I stil think the hint system I mentioned might be a nice way to balance things out and stop the game from becoming too challenging. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] MOTA Last Minute Comments
Hi Dark, Basically, I figure unlocking trophies etc is one good use for arcade mode. In Guardian of Light you get certain points for performing various things like time bonuses etc that all go towards unlocking certain trophies and things like that. So if we add arcade mode this would be the most practical way of adding replay value. On 1/26/11, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: I'm fairly indifferent on the score front, but I love the trophy idea, exactly as you said, trying to unlock them all is a challenge I really appreciate. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
