subject:"The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood"

forces from early in the 
war, he took no action on this report, other than to refer it to John 
J. Muccio, U.S. ambassador in South Korea. Muccio later wrote that he 
urged South Korean officials to stage executions humanely and only 
after due process of law.


The AP found that during this same period, on Aug. 15, Brig. Gen. 
Francis W. Farrell, chief U.S. military adviser to the South Koreans, 
recommended the U.S. command investigate the executions. There was no 
sign such an inquiry was conducted. A month later, the Daejeon 
execution photos were sent to the Pentagon in Washington, with a U.S. 
colonel's report that the South Koreans had killed "thousands" of 
political prisoners.


The declassified record shows an equivocal U.S. attitude continuing 
into the fall, when Seoul was retaken and South Korean forces began 
shooting residents who collaborated with the northern occupiers.


When Washington's British allies protested, Dean Rusk, assistant 
secretary of state, told them U.S. commanders were doing "everything 
they can to curb such atrocities," according to a Rusk memo of Oct. 28, 
1950.


But on Dec. 19, W.J. Sebald, State Department liaison to MacArthur, 
cabled Secretary of State Dean Acheson to say MacArthur's command 
viewed the killings as a South Korean "internal matter" and had 
"refrained from taking any action."


It was the British who took action, according to news reports at the 
time. On Dec. 7, in occupied North Korea, British officers saved 21 
civilians lined up to be shot, by threatening to shoot the South Korean 
officer responsible. Later that month, British troops seized "Execution 
Hill," outside Seoul, to block further mass killings there.


To quiet the protests, the South Koreans barred journalists from 
execution sites and the State Department told diplomats to avoid 
commenting on atrocity reports. Earlier, the U.S. Embassy in London had 
denounced as "fabrication" Winnington's Daily Worker reporting on the 
Daejeon slaughter. The Army eventually blamed all the thousands of 
Daejeon deaths on the North Koreans, who in fact had carried out 
executions of rightists there and elsewhere.


An American historian of the Korean War, the University of Chicago's 
Bruce Cumings, sees a share of U.S. guilt in what happened in 1950.


"After the fact — with thousands murdered — the U.S. not only did 
nothing, but covered up the Daejeon massacres," he said.


Another Korean War scholar, Allan R. Millett, an emeritus Ohio State 
professor, is doubtful. "I'm not sure there's enough evidence to pin 
culpability on these guys," he said, referring to the advisers and 
other Americans.


The swiftness and nationwide nature of the 1950 roundups and mass 
killings point to orders from the top, President Rhee and his security 
chiefs, Korean historians say. Those officials are long dead, and 
Korean documentary evidence is scarce.


To piece together a fuller story, investigators of the Truth and 
Reconciliation Commission will sift through tens of thousands of pages 
of declassified U.S. documents.


The commission's mandate extends to at least 2010, and its president, 
historian Ahn Byung-ook, expects to turn then to Washington for help in 
finding the truth.


"Our plan is that when we complete our investigation of cases involving 
the U.S. Army, we'll make an overall recommendation, a request to the 
U.S. government to conduct an overall investigation," he said. Charles 
J. Hanley and Jae-Soon Chang, The Associated Press





Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:

Chris and Smitra are performing a collective filtering of history, in 
which barbarism is merely a feature of "capitalism" while jolly, 
socialists, are completely ignored because, if a socialist tortures, 
or slaugters the innocent, that's different. Because they are 
ultimately,, 'helping mankind.' Stalin and Pol Pot, and the Kim 
dynasty of North Korea, and Mao's Great Leap Forward, were all 
'undertandable excesses in desparate times' and so forth and so on. 
This is the kind of thinking that most Leftists capitulated with, 
when Stalin achieved his Pact of Steel with Herr Hitler from 1939-41. 
Nobody has a higher body-count of the massacred, then the Left and 
this is coming from someone who's blood relatives were slain by dear 
Adolf. In fact, I am betting had not the Furher decided to turn 
against his chum, Stalin (Dzugadashvilli) the socialists and the 
national socialists would be fine friends. I would reccomend The 
Bloodlands,  as a history book  of both Josep and Adolf, but there'd 
be no readers here. Ideology rules all I suppose?



-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:37 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood



And yes half a century ago the CIA over th

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-25 Thread spudboy100

Chris and Smitra are performing a collective filtering of history, in which 
barbarism is merely a feature of "capitalism" while jolly, socialists, are 
completely ignored because, if a socialist tortures, or slaugters the innocent, 
that's different. Because they are ultimately,, 'helping mankind.' Stalin and 
Pol Pot, and the Kim dynasty of North Korea, and Mao's Great Leap Forward, were 
all 'undertandable excesses in desparate times' and so forth and so on. This is 
the kind of thinking that most Leftists capitulated with, when Stalin achieved 
his Pact of Steel with Herr Hitler from 1939-41. Nobody has a higher body-count 
of the massacred, then the Left and this is coming from someone who's blood 
relatives were slain by dear Adolf. In fact, I am betting had not the Furher 
decided to turn against his chum, Stalin (Dzugadashvilli) the socialists and 
the national socialists would be fine friends. I would reccomend The 
Bloodlands,  as a history book  of both Josep and Adolf, but there'd be no 
readers here. Ideology rules all I suppose? 

-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Sun, Aug 25, 2013 2:37 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

>> And yes half a century ago the CIA over through some 2 bit leaders in Chile 
>> and Iran, big deal.
John you are either grossly ignorant of history, or squeeze it like toothpaste 
through the aperture of your ideological point of view. The actual historical 
facts are that both Chilean president Salvador Allende and Iranian president 
Mohammad Mossadegh were democratically elected and popular leaders of their 
respective nations.
Your choice of words “2 bit leaders” actually says a lot about the kind of 
person you are… a person who is cavalier with the facts and who is prone to 
distort events to fit the ideological prism you inhabit. I suppose the many 
thousands of people who were tortured to death and dumped into the Pacific 
Ocean by Pinochets death squads were just two bit people as well in your 
esteemed opinion.
Does your clearly self-evident and shockingly casual disregard for the truth – 
when it comes to politics -- extend to everything you do and say or is your 
willingness to lie and grotesquely mischaracterize history, limited to the 
political and religious spheres of existence and by some strange mechanism you 
are able to see things with a clear and open mind in areas of discussion that 
do not involve your own peculiar political beliefs?
-Chris

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:53 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Chris de Morsella  
wrote:

Fascism unlike Communism (at the level of lip service at least) never preached 
a Universal Fascist state – an 1000 year Reich of one tribe over other inferior 
races maybe, but that idea lacks universal appeal. 

And lip service (who wouldn't want a workers paradise?) is the only reason that 
today people would have far more sympathy for Senator McCarthy if he'd gone 
after Neo-Nazis instead of Communists, and in general lip service is the one 
and only reason Communism has always seemed more respectable than Nazism even 
though it has caused at least as much misery in the world. In the 30's Stalin 
murdered millions of his own people and in the 20's Lenin forced people to 
abandon their private farms and go to huge corrupt monumentally inefficient 
collective farms with the result that millions died of starvation;  In the 50's 
Mao did the exact same stupid thing in China in the name of communism and at 
least 30 million starved to death. In the 70's in Cambodia the communists 
murdered a greater percentage of their population than any regime in the 
history of the world. In the 90's in North Korea, a nightmare country as bad as 
anything George Orwell could dream up, communism caused two million to starve 
to death while South Korea, a country with the same culture and language but 
without communism became a world economic powerhouse. 

And yes half a century ago the CIA over through some 2 bit leaders in Chile and 
Iran, big deal.

  John K Clark

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-25 Thread Chris de Morsella

>> And yes half a century ago the CIA over through some 2 bit leaders in
Chile and Iran, big deal.

John you are either grossly ignorant of history, or squeeze it like
toothpaste through the aperture of your ideological point of view. The
actual historical facts are that both Chilean president Salvador Allende and
Iranian president Mohammad Mossadegh were democratically elected and popular
leaders of their respective nations.

Your choice of words "2 bit leaders" actually says a lot about the kind of
person you are. a person who is cavalier with the facts and who is prone to
distort events to fit the ideological prism you inhabit. I suppose the many
thousands of people who were tortured to death and dumped into the Pacific
Ocean by Pinochets death squads were just two bit people as well in your
esteemed opinion.

Does your clearly self-evident and shockingly casual disregard for the truth
- when it comes to politics -- extend to everything you do and say or is
your willingness to lie and grotesquely mischaracterize history, limited to
the political and religious spheres of existence and by some strange
mechanism you are able to see things with a clear and open mind in areas of
discussion that do not involve your own peculiar political beliefs?

-Chris

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 9:53 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

 

 

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Chris de Morsella 
wrote:

Fascism unlike Communism (at the level of lip service at least) never
preached a Universal Fascist state - an 1000 year Reich of one tribe over
other inferior races maybe, but that idea lacks universal appeal. 

 

And lip service (who wouldn't want a workers paradise?) is the only reason
that today people would have far more sympathy for Senator McCarthy if he'd
gone after Neo-Nazis instead of Communists, and in general lip service is
the one and only reason Communism has always seemed more respectable than
Nazism even though it has caused at least as much misery in the world. In
the 30's Stalin murdered millions of his own people and in the 20's Lenin
forced people to abandon their private farms and go to huge corrupt
monumentally inefficient collective farms with the result that millions died
of starvation;  In the 50's Mao did the exact same stupid thing in China in
the name of communism and at least 30 million starved to death. In the 70's
in Cambodia the communists murdered a greater percentage of their population
than any regime in the history of the world. In the 90's in North Korea, a
nightmare country as bad as anything George Orwell could dream up, communism
caused two million to starve to death while South Korea, a country with the
same culture and language but without communism became a world economic
powerhouse. 

And yes half a century ago the CIA over through some 2 bit leaders in Chile
and Iran, big deal.

  John K Clark

 

 

 

 

 

 

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-25 Thread Chris de Morsella

> The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the
U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of [blah blah]

Obviously the genocide of the indigenous people in Guatemala in which
something like two hundred thousand human beings (ethnic Maya mostly) were
tortured, killed and disappeared by a brutal US installed dictator Rios
Montt.

US financed and backed death squads, controlled and operated many out of the
US embassy in Honduras with Ambassador Negroponte (Ambassador death squad)
directing operations on the ground - during the mid-eighties and operating
fascist paramilitary death squads in El Salvador and Nicaragua as well.
Genocide, torture, ethnic cleansing and mass rape are inexcusable crimes of
war. 

It appears as if the deaths of hundreds of thousands of people at the hands
of brutal fascist death squads means very little to you. What kind of person
does this make you, who have been calling others by the name "Ass" (and over
and over too)?

If you do, indeed entertain this don't-give-a-shit attitude about the murder
of hundreds of thousands of people in Guatemala, then perhaps the epithet
you are so freely tossing around might instead more or less apply to your
own person.

-Chris

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of John Clark
Sent: Sunday, August 25, 2013 10:34 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

A professional ass who goes by the pseudonym  because he's
understandably too embarrassed to give his real name wrote:

> The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the
U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of [blah blah]

Dear Mr. Ass

Once somebody knows that you said "supporting the Nazis was the right thing
for the Arabs back then" and "I believe that 9/11 was a good thing", why on
earth would anybody who was not drooling and locked inside a rubber room be
interested in your opinion of the morality of ANYTHING?

  John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Because I at least explain why that's the case. Agree or disagree with 
me, but it's something that can be debated. You, on the other hand, are 
an ideologue who is not capable of reading past the first sentence if 
that looks like contradicting whatever you believe in.





Citeren John Clark :


A professional ass who goes by the pseudonym  because
he's understandably too embarrassed to give his real name wrote:


The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the
U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of [blah blah]



Dear Mr. Ass

Once somebody knows that you said "supporting the Nazis was the right thing
for the Arabs back then" and "I believe that 9/11 was a good thing", why on
earth would anybody who was not drooling and locked inside a rubber room be
interested in your opinion of the morality of ANYTHING?

 John K Clark


**

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

A professional ass who goes by the pseudonym  because
he's understandably too embarrassed to give his real name wrote:

> The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the
> U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of [blah blah]
>

Dear Mr. Ass

Once somebody knows that you said "supporting the Nazis was the right thing
for the Arabs back then" and "I believe that 9/11 was a good thing", why on
earth would anybody who was not drooling and locked inside a rubber room be
interested in your opinion of the morality of ANYTHING?

  John K Clark

**

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood


https://sites.google.com/site/faydowkerarchive2003/home/mariarosario

"The modern history of Guatemala was decisively shaped by the 
U.S.-organized invasion and overthrow of the democratically elected 
regime of Jacobo Arbenz in June 1954. Since that time, while Guatemala 
has remained securely within the U.S. sphere of influence, badly needed 
economic and social reforms were put off the agenda indefinitely, 
political democracy was stifled, and state terror was institutionalized 
and reached catastrophic levels in the late 1970s and early 1980s."


The U.S. establishment overthrew the Arbenz government in 1954 because 
it "...found the pluralism and democracy of the years 1945-54 
intolerable." Since that time "...not only has Guatemala gradually 
become a terrorist state rarely matched in the scale of systematic 
murder of civilians, but its terrorist proclivities have increased 
markedly at strategic moments of escalated U.S. intervention."


"In 1966, a further small guerrilla movement brought the Green Berets 
and a major CI [Counter-Insurgency] war in which 10,000 people were 
killed in pursuit of three or four hundred guerrillas. It was at this 
point that the 'death squads' and 'disappearances' made their 
appearance in Guatemala. The United States brought in police training 
in the 1970s, which was followed by the further institutionalization of 
violence. The 'solution' to social problems in Guatemala, specifically 
attributable to the 1954 intervention and the form of U.S. assistance 
since that time, has been permanent state terror. With Guatemala, the 
United States invented the 'counterinsurgency state.'"


"During the Reagan years, the number of civilians murdered in Guatemala 
ran into the tens of thousands, and disappearances and mutilated bodies 
were a daily occurrence. Studies by Amnesty International (AI), 
Americas Watch (AW), and other human-rights monitors have documented a 
military machine run amok, with the indiscriminate killing of peasants 
(including vast numbers of women and children), the forcible relocation 
of hundreds of thousands of farmers and villagers into virtual 
concentration camps, and the enlistment of many hundreds of thousands 
in compulsory civil patrols."


The number of civilians murdered between 1978 and 1985 may have 
approached 100,000 [one-hundred thousand], with a style of killing 
reminiscent of Pol Pot. As AI [Amnesty International] pointed out in 
1981:"


The bodies of the victims have been found piled up in ravines, dumped 
at roadsides or buried in mass graves. Thousands bore the scars of 
torture, and death had come to most by strangling with a garrotte, by 
being suffocated in rubber hoods or by being shot in the head.


"The holocaust years 1978-85 yielded a steady stream of documents by 
human-rights groups that provided dramatic evidence of a state 
terrorism in Guatemala approaching genocidal levels. The spectacular AI 
[Amnesty International] report of 1981 on 'Disappearances: A Workbook,' 
describ[ed] a frightening development of state terrorism in the Nazi 
mold.”


"Human-rights monitoring and protective agencies have had a very 
difficult time organizing and surviving in the 'death-squad 
democracies' of El Salvador and Guatemala. Between October 1980 and 
March 1983, five officials of the Human Rights Commission of El 
Salvador were seized and murdered by the security forces."


"Guatemala has been even more inhospitable to human-rights 
organizations than El Salvador. Guatemalan Archbishop Monsignor 
Prospero Penados del Barrio asserted in 1984 that 'It is impossible for 
a human rights office to exist in Guatemala at the present time.' 
'Disappearances' as an institutional form began in Guatemala in the 
mid-1960s and eventually reached levels unique in the Western 
Hemisphere, with the total estimated to be some 40,000 [forty 
thousand]. Protest groups that have formed to seek information and 
legal redress have been consistently driven out of business by 
state-organized murder. The Association of University Students (AEU) 
sought information on the disappeared through the courts in the course 
of a brief opening in 1966 but after one sensational expos\'e of the 
police murder of twenty eight leftists, the system closed down again. 
[...] In the 1970s a Committee of the Relatives of the Disappeared was 
organised by the AEU with headquarters in San Carlos National 
University. As Americas Watch points out, ``It disbanded after 
plainclothesmen walked into the University's legal aid center on March 
10, 1974 and shot and killed its principal organizer, lawyer Edmundo 
Guerra Theilheimer, the center's director.'' Another human-rights 
group, the National Commission for Human Rights, was created in the 
late 1970s by psychologist and journalist Irma Flaquer. Her son was 
murdered and she herself ``disappeared'' on October 16, 1980. "


" According to the British Parliamentary Human Rights Group, in 1984 
alone there were an average

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:36 PM,  wrote:

> With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened
>

You sir are an ass.

  John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

On Thu, Aug 22, 2013 at 9:39 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

>
> Fascism unlike Communism (at the level of lip service at least) never
> preached a Universal Fascist state – an 1000 year Reich of one tribe over
> other inferior races maybe, but that idea lacks universal appeal.
>

And lip service (who wouldn't want a workers paradise?) is the only reason
that today people would have far more sympathy for Senator McCarthy if he'd
gone after Neo-Nazis instead of Communists, and in general lip service is
the one and only reason Communism has always seemed more respectable than
Nazism even though it has caused at least as much misery in the world. In
the 30's Stalin murdered millions of his own people and in the 20's Lenin
forced people to abandon their private farms and go to huge corrupt
monumentally inefficient collective farms with the result that millions
died of starvation;  In the 50's Mao did the exact same stupid thing in
China in the name of communism and at least 30 million starved to death. In
the 70's in Cambodia the communists murdered a greater percentage of their
population than any regime in the history of the world. In the 90's in
North Korea, a nightmare country as bad as anything George Orwell could
dream up, communism caused two million to starve to death while South
Korea, a country with the same culture and language but without communism
became a world economic powerhouse.

And yes half a century ago the CIA over through some 2 bit leaders in Chile
and Iran, big deal.

  John K Clark

>
>
>
>

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

If I think that: "With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have 
happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. 
The Neo-Con ideology was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is 
sad that it had to happen that way with all the innocent victims in the 
US and Iraq, but I believe that the US and the rest of the World are 
today better off with these things having happened."


I'm not going to decide not to say this just because someone doesn't 
like statements to be made about 9/11 that doesn't fit in his ideology, 
who will selectively quote things out of context, point to that 
selective quote and call me an "ass".




Citeren John Clark :


On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM,  wrote:


With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened



You sir are an ass.

John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

On Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 12:05 PM,  wrote:

> With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened


You sir are an ass.

 John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

If I think that: "With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have 
happened, it ended up exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. 
The Neo-Con ideology was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is 
sad that it had to happen that way with all the innocent victims in the 
US and Iraq, but I believe that the US and the rest of the World are 
today better off with these things having happened."


I'm not going to decide not to say this just because someone doesn't 
like statements to be made about 9/11 that doesn't fit in his ideology, 
who will selectively quote things out of context, point to that 
selective quote and call me an "ass".




Citeren John Clark :


On Sat, Aug 24, 2013   wrote:


With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened,



You sir are an ass.

 John K Clark






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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

On Sat, Aug 24, 2013   wrote:

> With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened,


You sir are an ass.

  John K Clark


>

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-24 Thread smitra

With hindsight 9/11 was a good thing to have happened, it ended up 
exposing the fascist Neo-Cons for what they were. The Neo-Con ideology 
was defeated on the battlegrounds of Iraq. It is sad that it had to 
happen that way with all the innocent victims in the US and Iraq, but I 
believe that the US and the rest of the World are today better off with 
these things having happened.


Citeren John Clark :


On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:09 AM,  wrote:


Supporting the Nazis was the right thing to for the Arabs back then.
[...] Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing



You sir are an ass.

 John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-24 Thread spudboy100

Sex would be more interesting, purely, from a Hugh Everett the 3rd point of 
view of course.

-Original Message-
From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Fri, Aug 23, 2013 2:48 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

To talk about politics in a group is like  sex exhibition: it exert an 
irresistible attention that disturb the whole group. That is one of the main 
reasons why sex exhibition (and politics) is prohibited in most real and 
virtual places: It makes impossible any other activity. it is like a black hole 
that disolves the stablished network of pacific exchange of information about 
different interests. The same happens with politics and maybe other things that 
attract an instinctive attention. I hope not to have switched the discussion to 
sex. 

2013/8/23 

Surprising the uprising against Morsi, was centrally about economic stagnation, 
food prices, inflation, and unemployment-not per se' a political issue or even 
a religious one. These people, for the most part, were not objecting to Islamic 
Law (Sharia) for example, but being able to purchase enough rice, and lamb. One 
 writer, this week, compared the resistance of the Egyptian Army to the 
roll-over of the Wehrmacht, in Germany, in the 1930's. The old Prussian ruling 
class did suspect adolf would lead them into a bad (for Germany) military 
situation, but went along, as the people seemed to support the fuhrer, and 
wanted to avoid bloodshed in the streets, as we see in Egypt today. The 
military in Egypt may have chosen to take the less, disastrous, path, since 
Morsi's MB collectives, may have induced a calamity, in which Cairo and 
Alexandra would be vanished. Your support of the Islamist agenda (De Facto) is 
indeed, troubling.

-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 

Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:17 am
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

In these sorts of polls the proper context is missing. Then you can 
asily fall in the same trap as the Germans who supported Hitler. In 
gypt you actually see this very clearly, a large fraction of the 
opulation who are against the Muslim Brotherhood are saying that the 
undreds of dead civilians are not the responsibility of the security 
orces that these civilians deserved to die for supporting the Muslim 
rotherhood.
This is fascism, it is not per se that you have some evil dictator in 
ower who is doing bad things, but it is a government who does "bad 
hings" with the support of a large fraction of the population, and 
hat then these "bad things" are perceived to be "good things".
Saibal

Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:
>
 Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho' 
 their are huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good 
 guys).  A PEW opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views 
 out-sorry to say. It's not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda, 
 if one is not, using a little truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a 
 big truth, about how the Faithful view the world, and to educate, and 
 accept the facts as they are. What to do about this if we are correct 
 is complicated.  Frankly, I am guessing that we might mitigate this 
 dilemma by focusing on the prime motivation within Islam--Life after 
 Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what gets them out of bed in the 
 morning" It's even more central to Islam then it is to 
 Christianity we can put our collective efforts there instead of 
 focusing on personal attacks, or ideological correctness.

 Mitch

 -Original Message-
 From: Chris de Morsella 
 To: everything-list 
 Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
 Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion 
 human beings by our very own fascist troll

 From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
 [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. 
 Corona
 Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
 To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
 Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.

 Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the 
 same main goal. you know.

 Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its 
 doctoral thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.

 The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the 
 Nazi party.

 There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or 
 hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

 If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
 fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

 2013/8/21 meekerdb 

 On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

 That Hitler is the most respected western fi

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-24 Thread John Clark

On Tue, Aug 20, 2013 at 8:09 AM,  wrote:

> Supporting the Nazis was the right thing to for the Arabs back then.
> [...] Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing


You sir are an ass.

  John K Clark

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-23 Thread Alberto G. Corona

To talk about politics in a group is like  sex exhibition: it exert an
irresistible attention that disturb the whole group. That is one of the
main reasons why sex exhibition (and politics) is prohibited in most real
and virtual places: It makes impossible any other activity. it is like a
black hole that disolves the stablished network of pacific exchange of
information about different interests. The same happens with politics and
maybe other things that attract an instinctive attention. I hope not to
have switched the discussion to sex.


2013/8/23 

>  Surprising the uprising against Morsi, was centrally about economic
> stagnation, food prices, inflation, and unemployment-not per se' a
> political issue or even a religious one. These people, for the most part,
> were not objecting to Islamic Law (Sharia) for example, but being able to
> purchase enough rice, and lamb. One  writer, this week, compared the
> resistance of the Egyptian Army to the roll-over of the Wehrmacht, in
> Germany, in the 1930's. The old Prussian ruling class did suspect adolf
> would lead them into a bad (for Germany) military situation, but went
> along, as the people seemed to support the fuhrer, and wanted to avoid
> bloodshed in the streets, as we see in Egypt today. The military in Egypt
> may have chosen to take the less, disastrous, path, since Morsi's MB
> collectives, may have induced a calamity, in which Cairo and Alexandra
> would be vanished. Your support of the Islamist agenda (De Facto) is
> indeed, troubling.
>  -Original Message-
> From: smitra 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:17 am
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
>  In these sorts of polls the proper context is missing. Then you can
> easily fall in the same trap as the Germans who supported Hitler. In
> Egypt you actually see this very clearly, a large fraction of the
> population who are against the Muslim Brotherhood are saying that the
> hundreds of dead civilians are not the responsibility of the security
> forces that these civilians deserved to die for supporting the Muslim
> Brotherhood.
>
> This is fascism, it is not per se that you have some evil dictator in
> power who is doing bad things, but it is a government who does "bad
> things" with the support of a large fraction of the population, and
> that then these "bad things" are perceived to be "good things".
>
> Saibal
>
>
>
> Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:
>
> >
> > Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho'
> > their are huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good
> > guys).  A PEW opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views
> > out-sorry to say. It's not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda,
> > if one is not, using a little truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a
> > big truth, about how the Faithful view the world, and to educate, and
> > accept the facts as they are. What to do about this if we are correct
> > is complicated.  Frankly, I am guessing that we might mitigate this
> > dilemma by focusing on the prime motivation within Islam--Life after
> > Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what gets them out of bed in the
> > morning" It's even more central to Islam then it is to
> > Christianity.... we can put our collective efforts there instead of
> > focusing on personal attacks, or ideological correctness.
> >
> > Mitch
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: Chris de Morsella 
> > To: everything-list 
> > Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
> > Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
> >
> >
> >
> > More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion
> > human beings by our very own fascist troll
> >
> > From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> > [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> > ] On Behalf Of Alberto G.
> > Corona
> > Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
> > To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> > Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
> >
> >
> > Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political 
> > debates.
> >
> >
> >
> > Google: hitler arab countries television
> >
> >
> >
> > It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the
> > same main goal. you know.
> >
> >
> >
> > Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its
> > doctoral thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.
> >
> >
> >
> > The Baaz party that r

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-23 Thread spudboy100

Surprising the uprising against Morsi, was centrally about economic stagnation, 
food prices, inflation, and unemployment-not per se' a political issue or even 
a religious one. These people, for the most part, were not objecting to Islamic 
Law (Sharia) for example, but being able to purchase enough rice, and lamb. One 
 writer, this week, compared the resistance of the Egyptian Army to the 
roll-over of the Wehrmacht, in Germany, in the 1930's. The old Prussian ruling 
class did suspect adolf would lead them into a bad (for Germany) military 
situation, but went along, as the people seemed to support the fuhrer, and 
wanted to avoid bloodshed in the streets, as we see in Egypt today. The 
military in Egypt may have chosen to take the less, disastrous, path, since 
Morsi's MB collectives, may have induced a calamity, in which Cairo and 
Alexandra would be vanished. Your support of the Islamist agenda (De Facto) is 
indeed, troubling.

-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 10:17 am
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

In these sorts of polls the proper context is missing. Then you can 
easily fall in the same trap as the Germans who supported Hitler. In 
Egypt you actually see this very clearly, a large fraction of the 
population who are against the Muslim Brotherhood are saying that the 
hundreds of dead civilians are not the responsibility of the security 
forces that these civilians deserved to die for supporting the Muslim 
Brotherhood.

This is fascism, it is not per se that you have some evil dictator in 
power who is doing bad things, but it is a government who does "bad 
things" with the support of a large fraction of the population, and 
that then these "bad things" are perceived to be "good things".

Saibal

Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:

>
> Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho' 
> their are huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good 
> guys).  A PEW opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views 
> out-sorry to say. It's not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda, 
> if one is not, using a little truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a 
> big truth, about how the Faithful view the world, and to educate, and 
> accept the facts as they are. What to do about this if we are correct 
> is complicated.  Frankly, I am guessing that we might mitigate this 
> dilemma by focusing on the prime motivation within Islam--Life after 
> Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what gets them out of bed in the 
> morning" It's even more central to Islam then it is to 
> Christianity we can put our collective efforts there instead of 
> focusing on personal attacks, or ideological correctness.
>
> Mitch
>
>
> -----Original Message-
> From: Chris de Morsella 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
> Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
>
>
> More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion 
> human beings by our very own fascist troll
>
> From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
> [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. 
> Corona
> Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
>
> Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.
>
>
>
> Google: hitler arab countries television
>
>
>
> It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the 
> same main goal. you know.
>
>
>
> Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its 
> doctoral thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.
>
>
>
> The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the 
> Nazi party.
>
>
>
> There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or 
> hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.
>
>
>
> If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
> fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 2013/8/21 meekerdb 
>
>
> On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word 
> is a fact.
>
>
>
> What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?
>
> Brent
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, 
> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everything-list@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-23 Thread spudboy100



Well, to stay on topic, the Muslim Brotherhood, which is alive and well today, 
and is influential, as it is funded by different elements within the Islamic 
world. The Saudis will fund the Brotherhood, but not in Egypt, but Qatar will. 
Go figure. Is the MB fueled by hatred? No doubt at all. Did fascism and Nazism 
inspire them? Again, doubtless. In Jabotinsky's case, he looked to leverage 
against British rule, in Palestine. In the MB's case, they liked the 
organizational skills and philosophy of Adolf, and liked his thing about the 
Jews, as it seemed to them a quicker rout to paradise, to fulfill the Quaran, 
and the Buhkhari. Jobotinsky failed, miserably, with Mussolini, but, let us 
note. Since Smitra spawned this post, we end up talking about his views that  
supported Al Qaeda, but not their attacks against civilians, and seemed hold 
that "Western Imperialism,' bad, but Islamist Supremacy was just peachy. This 
is a view held by Progressives, round the world, and is exemplified by the ISM, 
International Socialist Movement.  I suppose these guys view Islamists as 
useful, fellow, travelers, to quote Stalin. 

-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Thu, Aug 22, 2013 12:37 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood



Jabotinsky, who is one of the most important historical figures of the 
development of Zionism in Israel was a great and open admirer of Mussolini and 
of the fascist ideology. Fascism – during that period of history was seen as a 
futurist/modern ideology and was admired by many including many Americans of 
the time. 
Does this mean Zionism and all modern Zionists love fascism – a fair number of 
them seem to Lieberman for example – but I hope you see how it is not fair to 
use Jabotinski’s great admiration for fascism and for Mussolini to characterize 
modern Zionism. His affinity for fascism certainly probably influenced his 
development of the Iron Wall ideology of Zionism (read about it) so it has 
certainly shown up, especially amongst his ideological heirs in the Likud 
Party, but one cannot therefore characterize all Israeli’s and even more all 
Jews as being therefore suspect of being fascists. That kind of idiocy would be 
shot down straight away; why is the same kind of false parallelism not shot 
down when the subject comes around to Muslims? Why the double standard?
Hope this illustration helps you understand how problematic it is to put, the 
peculiar affinities (for our way of looking at things) of historical figures 
into a modern context and use their ancient statements and beliefs to 
characterize whatever the movement or ideology, they had a part in founding, 
has evolved over the course of history since their times.
-Chris
 
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:49 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
 

The Al Bana brothers who essentially started up the MB, as opposed to similar 
movements, like Abu Salafia. They started the MB formally in 1928, and liked 
Mussolini's fascists (everybody did back then!) and followed forward in their 
love of Adolf when he achieved state power. Alberto is correct about the 
Baathists in Syria and Iraq, and many Muslim writers compare (favorably) Mein 
Kampf (struggle) with the commands to perform Jihad (struggle) against the Qfar 
(infidels). These writers and jurists see it as the same, sad to say. 
Christopher Hitchens (the atheist) and his friends got in a fight with members 
of the Syrian Nazi Party (part of Assad's coalition), and now Dawkins is 
actually comparing the Jihadist actions to the Reich (bully for Dawkins waking 
up). Cheers for Alberto's post as well.

 

Mitch

-Original Message-
From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates. 

 

Google: hitler arab countries television

 

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main 
goal. you know. 

 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis 
at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi 
party. 

 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or hitler-inspired 
ideas in the musling world.

 

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

 


 

2013/8/21 meekerdb 


On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a fact. 

 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent


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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread meekerdb

On 8/22/2013 6:39 PM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

Nazism took it somewhere much darker, but Fascism already was exulting the fever pitch
of ethno-nationalism.

Fascism may have become a generic word we use now a days for that kind of
totalitarianism, but in its time and in history, time after time, fascist regimes and
parties have always exulted in ethno-fetishism and have promoted an us versus them
Manichean world view.

Sure, that's part of the idea of the nation as a super-organism: If you're not part of it,
you're an enemy of it. There's no room for individualism or dissent.

In each country where Fascism has arisen it has been characterized by pronounced
nationalism most often framed and presented in ethnic terms.

But also in cultural terms. As a super-organism, a nation should strive for glorious
achievements as an individual should. This generally meant conquering some 'inferior'
people and bringing them into the glory of your superior culture.

Nazism clearly took this notion and ran with Aryan Supremacism, but all the other
Fascists then: Mussolini, Franco, and yes Jabotinsky as well (because he was a Fascist)
they all saw themselves as leaders of ethnically rooted nationalist movements. In fact
show me a famous fascist who was not also a virulent ethno-nationalist.

Fascism unlike Communism (at the level of lip service at least) never preached a
Universal Fascist state -- an 1000 year Reich of one tribe over other inferior races
maybe, but that idea lacks universal appeal.

Communists sang Internationale as expressed in a line from the lyrics in English:
"There simply IS a ruling class, and there is a working class. One day the majority must
triumph over the oppression and terror of the minority."They clearly framed their
struggle as an international class struggle. Their slogan was workers unite... or as
expressed in the Chilean protest song against Allende "El pueblo unido jamás será vencido"

Fascism instead has always been nationalist (as opposed to internationalist) and framed
in terms of ethnic and cultural chauvinism... so if there is a difference between Hitler
and Nazism and the other fascist Parties and personalities it is a matter of degree and
not of substance.

Enough degrees and they become a substantial difference. Fascism was admired (as was
communism) for "making the trains run on time". I don't think Nazism would have had
admirers if the death camps had been known about at the time.

Brent

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread Chris de Morsella

Nazism took it somewhere much darker, but Fascism already was exulting the
fever pitch of ethno-nationalism. 

Fascism may have become a generic word we use now a days for that kind of
totalitarianism, but in its time and in history, time after time, fascist
regimes and parties have always exulted in ethno-fetishism and have promoted
an us versus them Manichean world view. 

In each country where Fascism has arisen it has been characterized by
pronounced nationalism most often framed and presented in ethnic terms.
Nazism clearly took this notion and ran with Aryan Supremacism, but all the
other Fascists then: Mussolini, Franco, and yes Jabotinsky as well (because
he was a Fascist) they all saw themselves as leaders of ethnically rooted
nationalist movements. In fact show me a famous fascist who was not also a
virulent ethno-nationalist.

Fascism unlike Communism (at the level of lip service at least) never
preached a Universal Fascist state – an 1000 year Reich of one tribe over
other inferior races maybe, but that idea lacks universal appeal. 

Communists sang Internationale  as expressed in a line from the lyrics in
English: “There simply IS a ruling class, and there is a working class. One
day the majority must triumph over the oppression and terror of the
minority.” They clearly framed their struggle as an international class
struggle. Their slogan was workers unite… or as expressed in the Chilean
protest song against Allende “El pueblo unido jamás será vencido”

Fascism instead has always been nationalist (as opposed to internationalist)
and framed in terms of ethnic and cultural chauvinism… so if there is a
difference between Hitler and Nazism and the other fascist Parties and
personalities it is a matter of degree and not of substance. 

-Chris

 

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of meekerdb
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:51 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

There's a lot of difference between admiring Fascism and admiring Nazism.
Fascism was the idea that a nation was a kind of super-organism consisting
of people in different stations of life working together to achieve
collective goals.  It's not a philosophy of government I like, but it's not
crazy either.  It's roughly the way army's work.  Nazism added superstitious
beliefs in "blut und volk" and a virulent hatred of Jews and Roma as
responsible for degeneration of a mythical Aryan culture.  It adopted
genocide as the policy for solving "the Jewish question."

Brent

On 8/22/2013 9:36 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote:

Jabotinsky, who is one of the most important historical figures of the
development of Zionism in Israel was a great and open admirer of Mussolini
and of the fascist ideology. Fascism – during that period of history was
seen as a futurist/modern ideology and was admired by many including many
Americans of the time. 

Does this mean Zionism and all modern Zionists love fascism – a fair number
of them seem to Lieberman for example – but I hope you see how it is not
fair to use Jabotinski’s great admiration for fascism and for Mussolini to
characterize modern Zionism. His affinity for fascism certainly probably
influenced his development of the Iron Wall ideology of Zionism (read about
it) so it has certainly shown up, especially amongst his ideological heirs
in the Likud Party, but one cannot therefore characterize all Israeli’s and
even more all Jews as being therefore suspect of being fascists. That kind
of idiocy would be shot down straight away; why is the same kind of false
parallelism not shot down when the subject comes around to Muslims? Why the
double standard?

Hope this illustration helps you understand how problematic it is to put,
the peculiar affinities (for our way of looking at things) of historical
figures into a modern context and use their ancient statements and beliefs
to characterize whatever the movement or ideology, they had a part in
founding, has evolved over the course of history since their times.

-Chris

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:49 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

The Al Bana brothers who essentially started up the MB, as opposed to
similar movements, like Abu Salafia. They started the MB formally in 1928,
and liked Mussolini's fascists (everybody did back then!) and followed
forward in their love of Adolf when he achieved state power. Alberto is
correct about the Baathists in Syria and Iraq, and many Muslim writers
compare (favorably) Mein Kampf (struggle) with the commands to perform Jihad
(struggle) against the Qfar (infidels). These writers and jurists see it as
the same, sad to say. Christopher Hitchens (the atheist) and his friends go

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread meekerdb

There's a lot of difference between admiring Fascism and admiring Nazism.  Fascism was the 
idea that a nation was a kind of super-organism consisting of people in different stations 
of life working together to achieve collective goals.  It's not a philosophy of government 
I like, but it's not crazy either.  It's roughly the way army's work.  Nazism added 
superstitious beliefs in "blut und volk" and a virulent hatred of Jews and Roma as 
responsible for degeneration of a mythical Aryan culture.  It adopted genocide as the 
policy for solving "the Jewish question."


Brent

On 8/22/2013 9:36 AM, Chris de Morsella wrote:


Jabotinsky, who is one of the most important historical figures of the development of 
Zionism in Israel was a great and open admirer of Mussolini and of the fascist ideology. 
Fascism -- during that period of history was seen as a futurist/modern ideology and was 
admired by many including many Americans of the time.


Does this mean Zionism and all modern Zionists love fascism -- a fair number of them 
seem to Lieberman for example -- but I hope you see how it is not fair to use 
Jabotinski's great admiration for fascism and for Mussolini to characterize modern 
Zionism. His affinity for fascism certainly probably influenced his development of the 
Iron Wall ideology of Zionism (read about it) so it has certainly shown up, especially 
amongst his ideological heirs in the Likud Party, but one cannot therefore characterize 
all Israeli's and even more all Jews as being therefore suspect of being fascists. That 
kind of idiocy would be shot down straight away; why is the same kind of false 
parallelism not shot down when the subject comes around to Muslims? Why the double standard?


Hope this illustration helps you understand how problematic it is to put, the peculiar 
affinities (for our way of looking at things) of historical figures into a modern 
context and use their ancient statements and beliefs to characterize whatever the 
movement or ideology, they had a part in founding, has evolved over the course of 
history since their times.


-Chris

*From:*everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On 
Behalf Of *spudboy...@aol.com

*Sent:* Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:49 AM
*To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
*Subject:* Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

The Al Bana brothers who essentially started up the MB, as opposed to similar movements, 
like Abu Salafia. They started the MB formally in 1928, and liked Mussolini's fascists 
(everybody did back then!) and followed forward in their love of Adolf when he achieved 
state power. Alberto is correct about the Baathists in Syria and Iraq, and many Muslim 
writers compare (favorably) Mein Kampf (struggle) with the commands to perform Jihad 
(struggle) against the Qfar (infidels). These writers and jurists see it as the same, 
sad to say. Christopher Hitchens (the atheist) and his friends got in a fight with 
members of the Syrian Nazi Party (part of Assad's coalition), and now Dawkins is 
actually comparing the Jihadist actions to the Reich (bully for Dawkins waking up). 
Cheers for Alberto's post as well.


Mitch

-Original Message-
From: Alberto G. Corona mailto:agocor...@gmail.com>>
To: everything-list <mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com>>

Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.

Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main goal. you 
know.


Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis at the 
university about denial of the Holocaust.


The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi 
party.

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or hitler-inspired ideas in 
the musling world.


If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim fundamentalists. even 
on the top of mesquites


2013/8/21 meekerdb mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>>

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a 
fact.

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread meekerdb


On 8/22/2013 4:47 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

Hitler invented nothing


Yes, he didn't invent anti-semitism.  That was invented by the Catholic Church in the 
Spanish Iquisition and by Martin Luther.  But Hitler made great use of it.


Brent

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread Chris de Morsella

Ah yes, I can see you subscribe to the notion of some scary monolithic
Muslim menace. the Umah Godzilla -- well good luck with your nightmares LOL.
Though you do in passing mention the sectarianism, which is just as
prevalent in the Muslim world as it is in the Christian world - if we want
to see the world through that narrow reductive optic, you continue to treat
more than a billion human beings as a single monolithic block marching to
the same ideological beat and framing these billion separate individual
human beings as some kind of existential menace to our way of life. Is this
an accurate assessment of your political beliefs?

You are so wrong, the various histories and inner beliefs; the customs,
practices and modalities of the many different peoples who have in common a
religious faith - if one can describe a religion so fractured along
sectarian lines as having much in common at all  -- are in fact quite varied
and you cannot understand a Malay, or a Taureg etc. solely through your read
of Islam without also understanding their particular histories.

You are being grossly reductionist and in reality there is a huge diversity
in customs, beliefs, and practices amongst the world's Muslims and in much
of the "Muslim" world there are also many who do not believe in these
ancient fairy tales, any more than for example I believe in the Christian
fairy tales.

There is not a Muslim world and a Christian world; we all live on the same
planet. there is only one world. We are all the same animal species and
share the same mental physiology and are all driven by the same desires
essentially - to have food, shelter, comfort, safety, happiness, family..
and for some to discover the truth behind the veil.

There are plenty of Muslim fundy assholes, but then there are Jewish,
Christian, Buddhist, Hindu (etc.)  fundy assholes in abundance as well. We
have our own American Taliban - our own wild eyed fundamentalist medieval
minded crazies. What real difference is there between a Jewish/Zionist or
Christian fundamentalist and an Arab/Muslim fundamentalist? Not a whole lot
- IMO.

I agree with those who are concerned about the rise of fundamentalism in our
world, about this return to an iconoclastic, medieval and Manichean world
view, but when it is suggested that this is somehow a Muslim phenomenon and
not a human folly that is festering in all societies and can turn any
society into one that finds itself living through a Torquemada experience,
that is where I get off of the boat and begin to criticize those who
selectively criticize other cultures while ignoring the very same phenomena
when they crop up in their own societies.

-Chris

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 6:01 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho' their are
huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good guys).  A PEW
opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views out-sorry to say.
It's not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda, if one is not, using a
little truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a big truth, about how the
Faithful view the world, and to educate, and accept the facts as they are.
What to do about this if we are correct is complicated.  Frankly, I am
guessing that we might mitigate this dilemma by focusing on the prime
motivation within Islam--Life after Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what
gets them out of bed in the morning" It's even more central to Islam then it
is to Christianity we can put our collective efforts there instead of
focusing on personal attacks, or ideological correctness.

 

Mitch

-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion human
beings by our very own fascist troll

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com
<mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?> ] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates.

 

Google: hitler arab countries television

 

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main
goal. you know. 

 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party. 

 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread Chris de Morsella

Jabotinsky, who is one of the most important historical figures of the
development of Zionism in Israel was a great and open admirer of Mussolini
and of the fascist ideology. Fascism - during that period of history was
seen as a futurist/modern ideology and was admired by many including many
Americans of the time. 

Does this mean Zionism and all modern Zionists love fascism - a fair number
of them seem to Lieberman for example - but I hope you see how it is not
fair to use Jabotinski's great admiration for fascism and for Mussolini to
characterize modern Zionism. His affinity for fascism certainly probably
influenced his development of the Iron Wall ideology of Zionism (read about
it) so it has certainly shown up, especially amongst his ideological heirs
in the Likud Party, but one cannot therefore characterize all Israeli's and
even more all Jews as being therefore suspect of being fascists. That kind
of idiocy would be shot down straight away; why is the same kind of false
parallelism not shot down when the subject comes around to Muslims? Why the
double standard?

Hope this illustration helps you understand how problematic it is to put,
the peculiar affinities (for our way of looking at things) of historical
figures into a modern context and use their ancient statements and beliefs
to characterize whatever the movement or ideology, they had a part in
founding, has evolved over the course of history since their times.

-Chris

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2013 5:49 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

The Al Bana brothers who essentially started up the MB, as opposed to
similar movements, like Abu Salafia. They started the MB formally in 1928,
and liked Mussolini's fascists (everybody did back then!) and followed
forward in their love of Adolf when he achieved state power. Alberto is
correct about the Baathists in Syria and Iraq, and many Muslim writers
compare (favorably) Mein Kampf (struggle) with the commands to perform Jihad
(struggle) against the Qfar (infidels). These writers and jurists see it as
the same, sad to say. Christopher Hitchens (the atheist) and his friends got
in a fight with members of the Syrian Nazi Party (part of Assad's
coalition), and now Dawkins is actually comparing the Jihadist actions to
the Reich (bully for Dawkins waking up). Cheers for Alberto's post as well.

 

Mitch

-Original Message-
From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates. 

 

Google: hitler arab countries television

 

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main
goal. you know. 

 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party. 

 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

 

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

 

 

2013/8/21 meekerdb 

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
fact. 

 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread smitra

In these sorts of polls the proper context is missing. Then you can 
easily fall in the same trap as the Germans who supported Hitler. In 
Egypt you actually see this very clearly, a large fraction of the 
population who are against the Muslim Brotherhood are saying that the 
hundreds of dead civilians are not the responsibility of the security 
forces that these civilians deserved to die for supporting the Muslim 
Brotherhood.


This is fascism, it is not per se that you have some evil dictator in 
power who is doing bad things, but it is a government who does "bad 
things" with the support of a large fraction of the population, and 
that then these "bad things" are perceived to be "good things".


Saibal



Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:



Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho' 
their are huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good 
guys).  A PEW opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views 
out-sorry to say. It's not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda, 
if one is not, using a little truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a 
big truth, about how the Faithful view the world, and to educate, and 
accept the facts as they are. What to do about this if we are correct 
is complicated.  Frankly, I am guessing that we might mitigate this 
dilemma by focusing on the prime motivation within Islam--Life after 
Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what gets them out of bed in the 
morning" It's even more central to Islam then it is to 
Christianity we can put our collective efforts there instead of 
focusing on personal attacks, or ideological correctness.


Mitch


-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood



More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion 
human beings by our very own fascist troll


From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. 
Corona

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood


Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.



Google: hitler arab countries television



It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the 
same main goal. you know.




Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its 
doctoral thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.




The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the 
Nazi party.




There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or 
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.




If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites







2013/8/21 meekerdb 


On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word 
is a fact.




What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent


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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread spudboy100


Its a solid majoritarian opinion by the Umah (Islamic nation) tho' their are 
huge schisms within Islam..Sunni v Shia, Amadi's (the good guys).  A PEW 
opinion survey of Islamic states bears Alberto's views out-sorry to say. It's 
not bigotry, if is true, nor is it propaganda, if one is not, using a little 
truth to tell a big lie. It's telling a big truth, about how the Faithful view 
the world, and to educate, and accept the facts as they are. What to do about 
this if we are correct is complicated.  Frankly, I am guessing that we might 
mitigate this dilemma by focusing on the prime motivation within Islam--Life 
after Death. It is, as we yanks say, "what gets them out of bed in the morning" 
It's even more central to Islam then it is to Christianity we can put our 
collective efforts there instead of focusing on personal attacks, or 
ideological correctness.

Mitch


-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 8:52 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood



More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion human 
beings by our very own fascist troll
 
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
 

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.

 

Google: hitler arab countries television

 

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main 
goal. you know. 

 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis 
at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi 
party. 

 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or hitler-inspired 
ideas in the musling world.

 

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

 


 

2013/8/21 meekerdb 


On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a fact. 

 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent


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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread spudboy100


The Al Bana brothers who essentially started up the MB, as opposed to similar 
movements, like Abu Salafia. They started the MB formally in 1928, and liked 
Mussolini's fascists (everybody did back then!) and followed forward in their 
love of Adolf when he achieved state power. Alberto is correct about the 
Baathists in Syria and Iraq, and many Muslim writers compare (favorably) Mein 
Kampf (struggle) with the commands to perform Jihad (struggle) against the Qfar 
(infidels). These writers and jurists see it as the same, sad to say. 
Christopher Hitchens (the atheist) and his friends got in a fight with members 
of the Syrian Nazi Party (part of Assad's coalition), and now Dawkins is 
actually comparing the Jihadist actions to the Reich (bully for Dawkins waking 
up). Cheers for Alberto's post as well.

Mitch


-Original Message-
From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 7:02 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood


Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.


Google: hitler arab countries television


 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main 
goal. you know. 


Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis 
at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 


The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi 
party. 


There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or hitler-inspired 
ideas in the musling world.


If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites






2013/8/21 meekerdb 

  

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G.  Corona wrote:


That Hitler is the most respected western figure in  the muslim word is a 
fact. 


What is the evidence  for this?  Are there polls?
  
  Brent
  


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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-22 Thread Alberto G. Corona

uot;business as usual" being
>> preferred given the way our brain works.
>>
>>
>> Saibal
>>
>>
>> Citeren Pierz :
>>
>> > "...since first of all the additional happiness in those non-WW3
>> > branches..." What I mean of course is the additional happiness in the
>> WW3
>> > branches. The non-WW3 branches are much *less* happy right Saibal?
>> >
>> > On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:49:59 AM UTC+10, Pierz wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Self-contradictory. You've got to follow your own theories to their
>> >> logical conclusions. *Which* Western/third world would have been
>> better off
>> >> if WW3 hadn't happened? Since "everything happens" in some branch of
>> the
>> >> multiverse, surely there are innumerable branches in which the world
>> is
>> >> better off for not having undergone the horrors of WW3. Or are you
>> saying
>> >> that, if you summed human happiness in the branches of the
>> hypothetical
>> >> branch of the multiverse in which WW3 didn't happen, and compared it
>> to the
>> >> sum of human happiness in the branches in which it did, it would be
>> higher
>> >> in the ones in which it didn't? Put that way, it becomes a rather
>> absurd
>> >> claim wouldn't you say? And dubious - since first of all the
>> additional
>> >> happiness in those non-WW3 branches has to make up for the staggering,
>> >> unimaginable misery of the holocaust, the Russian front, Hiroshima etc
>> etc
>> >> before "getting ahead" at all, and secondly because this is all based
>> on
>> >> the theory that Nazism not being "debunked" (It was exterminated)
>> would
>> >> have led to an incorporation of fascist ideology into the mainstream
>> of
>> >> global social organization, an extremely debatable proposition.
>> Extremism
>> >> is fostered by economic desperation. If the world had had time to
>> fully
>> >> recover from the depression, notions of invading the world would have
>> >> looked a lot less attractive to the fat, comfortable citizens of an
>> >> affluent western Europe, and Nazism may well have died a quiet death
>> >> without the need for apocalypse. But of course I won't argue that's
>> what
>> >> *would* have happened, because making predictions about the
>> consequences of
>> >> any single event or change in world history is impossible. If you'd
>> like to
>> >> disagree, please tell us all what the consequences of the Arab
>> uprisings
>> >> will be in twenty years' time. We'll check back in then and see how
>> well
>> >> you performed.
>> >>
>> >> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:56:57 AM UTC+10, smi...@zonnet.nlwrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very
>> narrow
>> >>> minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally
>> >>> politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.
>> >>>
>> >>> Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the
>> >>> Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have
>> >>> been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free
>> >>> societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like
>> >>> euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would
>> >>> have been business as usual.
>> >>>
>> >>> The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral
>> >>> values we have today are universal and that you can look back many
>> >>> decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having
>> >>> supported the Nazis back then.
>> >>>
>> >>> In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is
>> >>> against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information
>> >>> did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and
>> >>> history has run a different course in different sectors of the
>> >>> multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In
>> fact
>> >>> we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the
>> >>> multiverse, because all possible programs

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread Pierz

t;getting ahead" at all, and secondly because this is all based 
> on 
> >> the theory that Nazism not being "debunked" (It was exterminated) would 
> >> have led to an incorporation of fascist ideology into the mainstream of 
> >> global social organization, an extremely debatable proposition. 
> Extremism 
> >> is fostered by economic desperation. If the world had had time to fully 
> >> recover from the depression, notions of invading the world would have 
> >> looked a lot less attractive to the fat, comfortable citizens of an 
> >> affluent western Europe, and Nazism may well have died a quiet death 
> >> without the need for apocalypse. But of course I won't argue that's 
> what 
> >> *would* have happened, because making predictions about the 
> consequences of 
> >> any single event or change in world history is impossible. If you'd 
> like to 
> >> disagree, please tell us all what the consequences of the Arab 
> uprisings 
> >> will be in twenty years' time. We'll check back in then and see how 
> well 
> >> you performed. 
> >> 
> >> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:56:57 AM UTC+10, smi...@zonnet.nlwrote: 
> >>> 
> >>> Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow 
> >>> minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally 
> >>> politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view. 
> >>> 
> >>> Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the 
> >>> Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have 
> >>> been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free 
> >>> societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like 
> >>> euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would 
> >>> have been business as usual. 
> >>> 
> >>> The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral 
> >>> values we have today are universal and that you can look back many 
> >>> decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having 
> >>> supported the Nazis back then. 
> >>> 
> >>> In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is 
> >>> against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information 
> >>> did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and 
> >>> history has run a different course in different sectors of the 
> >>> multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact 
> >>> we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the 
> >>> multiverse, because all possible programs exists. 
> >>> 
> >>> Saibal 
> >>> 
> >>> 
> >>> Citeren spudb...@aol.com: 
> >>> 
> >>> > I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be 
> it. 
> >>> > Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for 
> the 
> >>> > evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's 
> >>> > of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India, 
> >>> > using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they 
> detonate 
> >>> > it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy. 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > -Original Message- 
> >>> > From: smitra  
> >>> > To: everything-list  
> >>> > Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am 
> >>> > Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood 
> >>> > 
> >>> > 
> >>> > Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been 
> >>> > etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets 
> >>> > ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon. 
> >>> > 
> >>> > iteren Roger Clough : 
> >>> >> 
> >>> > The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood 
> >>> > 
> >>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y 
> >>> > 
> >>> > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000] 
> >>> > See my Leibniz site at 
> >>> > http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough 
> >>> > 
> >>> > -- 
> >>> > You

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread Pierz



On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:13:43 PM UTC+10, stathisp wrote:
>
>
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013, Pierz wrote:
>
>> "...since first of all the additional happiness in those non-WW3 
>> branches..." What I mean of course is the additional happiness in the WW3 
>> branches. The non-WW3 branches are much *less* happy right Saibal?
>>
>
> All these posts about WW3. Did I miss a war? 
>
 
Oopsies :) Some synapses relating to the prefix "www" and those relating to 
wars had an unauthorised conversation...
 

>
>
> -- 
> Stathis Papaioannou
>

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

>> I agree. I think trade imparticularly creates a symbiotic relationship
between people which gets internalized. Pragmatically it makes sense to see
people as friend rather than foe if we want them to buy our stuff and this
pragmatism then gets solidified in our moral sentiment.

Interesting point. Killing your customer is usually not a good business
practice; except if you are a tobacco company perhaps. 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of chris peck
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 6:17 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Hi Brent

>>But I don't think this is just a moral evolution.  I think it is driven by
technology. As societies become richer they become less competitive and
insular and more compassionate and open.  

I agree. I think trade imparticularly creates a symbiotic relationship
between people which gets internalized. Pragmatically it makes sense to see
people as friend rather than foe if we want them to buy our stuff and this
pragmatism then gets solidified in our moral sentiment.

I think there are other factors too. I read somewhere that the development
and popularity of the novel as a literary form encouraged people to see the
world through others' eyes and this had some effect on empathy.  There's
probably a plethora of factors that lead to this trend, but I think trade is
a major one.

>>f global warming or running out of oil or some other widespread diminution
of ease and wealth occurs there will likely be a corresponding diminution in
empathy and compassion.

I agree.

All the best

  _  

From: cdemorse...@yahoo.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:52:42 -0700

More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion human
beings by our very own fascist troll

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates.

Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main
goal. you know. 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party. 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

2013/8/21 meekerdb 

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
fact. 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread chris peck

Hi Brent

>>But I don't think this is just a moral evolution.  I think it is driven by 
>>technology. As societies become richer they become less competitive and 
>>insular and more compassionate and open.  

I agree. I think trade imparticularly creates a symbiotic relationship between 
people which gets internalized. Pragmatically it makes sense to see people as 
friend rather than foe if we want them to buy our stuff and this pragmatism 
then gets solidified in our moral sentiment.

I think there are other factors too. I read somewhere that the development and 
popularity of the novel as a literary form encouraged people to see the world 
through others' eyes and this had some effect on empathy.  There's probably a 
plethora of factors that lead to this trend, but I think trade is a major one.

>>f global warming or running out of oil or some other widespread diminution of 
>>ease and wealth occurs there will likely be a corresponding diminution in 
>>empathy and compassion.

I agree.

All the best

From: cdemorse...@yahoo.com
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 17:52:42 -0700

More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion human 
beings by our very own fascist troll From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood Just follow the tv of 
muslim countries, and specially, the political debates. Google: hitler arab 
countries television  It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims 
share the same main goal. you know.  Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after 
Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis at the university about denial of the 
Holocaust.  The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by 
the Nazi party.  There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler 
or hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world. If you search,  you can find a 
lot of nazi flags waved by muslim fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites 
 2013/8/21 meekerdb On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. 
Corona wrote:That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim 
word is a fact.  What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent-- 
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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

More hateful stereotyping of a diverse group numbering over a billion human
beings by our very own fascist troll

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:02 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates.

Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main
goal. you know. 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party. 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

2013/8/21 meekerdb 

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
fact. 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

It's not my time you are wasting with your posting of ideological
prejudices; you waste everyone's time with this troll like behavior.

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 5:04 PM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

I mean to tell you nothing. I don't want to waste my time

2013/8/22 Chris de Morsella 

Do you mean to tell me that the foundation of your "facts" is the number of
search results returned by a google search... along with a spurious
reference to some ad hoc quotation -- you cherry picked -- that was
auto-generated for you  by the google translator algorithm? 

Do you realize just how pathetic this meager "evidence" you have produced
makes you look? 

You made an incendiary statement, characterizing a vast swath of humanity in
an ugly stereotypical manner, which you very clearly framed as being a
"FACT" and then all you can do is come up with this BS. What you have
succeeded in doing is providing some real evidence of your prejudice and
willingness to spew hatred & slander on a billion human beings because of
your own irrational prejudicial frame of mind.

If you think the small little pile of BS you just presented would make you
look good to anyone -- who is not already on board with your own strange
ideological set of preconceived notions -- you are indeed more of a fool
than even I thought you were?

Did I just call you a fool? Yes, you heard me, I just did. 

Have a great day stewing in your hatred of others not like you.

-Chris

From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 

Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:14 PM

Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Plugging most Arab dictators name these days in Arabic yields mass
dissatisfaction equating them to tyrants like Hitler. But what about
"Hitler" by itself in Arabic into Google? What will you find?

https://www.google.es/search?q=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1
<https://www.google.es/search?q=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&oq=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%
84%D8%B1&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0j69i62.772j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8>
&oq=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0j69i62.772j0&sourceid=chrom
e&ie=UTF-8

It gives around 6 million entries.

Translate the entries for yourself with Google translate:

The first Arabic website was a blog that introduces him: "Hitler was not an
ordinary individual to be spun by the wheel of history to sprinkle him
behind as dust to be forgotten across this vast globe. He was neither the
king of the German people alone. He is one of the greatest few. Here is the
king of history." Westerners might think that the first
<http://v.3bir.com/77183/> comment on such an article would be in disgust.
Hardly. Muhammad Jasem posted: "If the greatest leaders gather together,
they would not equal the magnificence of Hitler." The rest of the comments
were not far off. The second hit was a YouTube page titled
<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8C_Nq-P7bg> "The Cowardly Jews," showing a
Hitler lookalike walking the streets with Jewish passersby supposedly
terrified as they move out of his way. This "proves that Jews are cowards,"
the commentators interpreted.

2013/8/22 Alberto G. Corona 

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates.

Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main
goal. you know. 

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party. 

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

2013/8/21 meekerdb 

On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
fact. 

What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

I mean to tell you nothing. I don't want to waste my time


2013/8/22 Chris de Morsella 

> Do you mean to tell me that the foundation of your "facts" is the number
> of search results returned by a google search... along with a spurious
> reference to some ad hoc quotation -- you cherry picked -- that
> was auto-generated for you  by the google translator algorithm?
>
> Do you realize just how pathetic this meager "evidence" you have produced
> makes you look?
>
> You made an incendiary statement, characterizing a vast swath of humanity
> in an ugly stereotypical manner, which you very clearly framed as being a
> "FACT" and then all you can do is come up with this BS. What you have
> succeeded in doing is providing some real evidence of your prejudice and
> willingness to spew hatred & slander on a billion human beings because of
> your own irrational prejudicial frame of mind.
> If you think the small little pile of BS you just presented would make you
> look good to anyone -- who is not already on board with your own strange
> ideological set of preconceived notions -- you are indeed more of a fool
> than even I thought you were?
>
> Did I just call you a fool? Yes, you heard me, I just did.
> Have a great day stewing in your hatred of others not like you.
> -Chris
>
>
>
>*From:* Alberto G. Corona 
> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:14 PM
>
> *Subject:* Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
> Plugging most Arab dictators name these days in Arabic yields mass
> dissatisfaction equating them to tyrants like Hitler. But what about
> “Hitler” by itself in Arabic into Google? What will you find?
>
>
> https://www.google.es/search?q=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&oq=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0j69i62.772j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8
>
> It gives around 6 million entries.
>
> Translate the entries for yourself with Google translate:
> The first Arabic website was a blog that introduces him: “Hitler was not
> an ordinary individual to be spun by the wheel of history to sprinkle him
> behind as dust to be forgotten across this vast globe. He was neither the
> king of the German people alone. He is one of the greatest few. Here is the
> king of history.” Westerners might think that the first 
> comment<http://v.3bir.com/77183/> on
> such an article would be in disgust. Hardly. Muhammad Jasem posted: “If the
> greatest leaders gather together, they would not equal the magnificence of
> Hitler.” The rest of the comments were not far off. The second hit was a
> YouTube page titled “The Cowardly 
> Jews,”<http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c8C_Nq-P7bg> showing
> a Hitler lookalike walking the streets with Jewish passersby supposedly
> terrified as they move out of his way. This “proves that Jews are cowards,”
> the commentators interpreted.
>
>
> 2013/8/22 Alberto G. Corona 
>
>  Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
> debates.
>
> Google: hitler arab countries television
>
>  It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same
> main goal. you know.
>
> Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
> thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.
>
> The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
> party.
>
> There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
> hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.
>
> If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
> fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites
>
>
>
> 2013/8/21 meekerdb 
>
>  On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
> fact.
>
>
> What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?
>
> Brent
>  --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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>
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>
>
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>
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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Do you mean to tell me that the foundation of your "facts" is the number of 
search results returned by a google search... along with a spurious reference 
to some ad hoc quotation -- you cherry picked -- that was auto-generated for 
you  by the google translator algorithm? 

Do you realize just how pathetic this meager "evidence" you have produced makes 
you look? 

You made an incendiary statement, characterizing a vast swath of humanity in an 
ugly stereotypical manner, which you very clearly framed as being a "FACT" and 
then all you can do is come up with this BS. What you have succeeded in doing 
is providing some real evidence of your prejudice and willingness to spew 
hatred & slander on a billion human beings because of your own irrational 
prejudicial frame of mind.
If you think the small little pile of BS you just presented would make you look 
good to anyone -- who is not already on board with your own strange ideological 
set of preconceived notions -- you are indeed more of a fool than even I 
thought you were?

Did I just call you a fool? Yes, you heard me, I just did. 
Have a great day stewing in your hatred of others not like you.
-Chris

 From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 4:14 PM
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Plugging most Arab dictators name these days in Arabic yields mass 
dissatisfaction equating them to tyrants like Hitler. But what about “Hitler” 
by itself in Arabic into Google? What will you find?

https://www.google.es/search?q=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&oq=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0j69i62.772j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It gives around 6 million entries.

Translate the entries for yourself with Google translate: 
The first Arabic website was a blog that introduces him: “Hitler was not an 
ordinary individual to be spun by the wheel of history to sprinkle him behind 
as dust to be forgotten across this vast globe. He was neither the king of the 
German people alone. He is one of the greatest few. Here is the king of 
history.” Westerners might think that the first comment on such an article 
would be in disgust. Hardly. Muhammad Jasem posted: “If the greatest leaders 
gather together, they would not equal the magnificence of Hitler.” The rest of 
the comments were not far off. The second hit was a YouTube page titled “The 
Cowardly Jews,” showing a Hitler lookalike walking the streets with Jewish 
passersby supposedly terrified as they move out of his way. This “proves that 
Jews are cowards,” the commentators interpreted. 

2013/8/22 Alberto G. Corona 

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political debates.
>
>
>Google: hitler arab countries television
>
>
> It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same main 
>goal. you know.  
>
>
>Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral thesis 
>at the university about denial of the Holocaust. 
>
>
>The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi 
>party.  
>
>
>There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or 
>hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.
>
>
>If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim 
>fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites 
>
>
>
>
>
>2013/8/21 meekerdb 
>
>On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>> 
>>That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a 
>>fact.  
>>What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?
>>
>>Brent
>> 
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>
>
>-- 
>Alberto.  

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Plugging most Arab dictators name these days in Arabic yields mass
dissatisfaction equating them to tyrants like Hitler. But what about
“Hitler” by itself in Arabic into Google? What will you find?

https://www.google.es/search?q=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&oq=%D9%87%D8%AA%D9%84%D8%B1&aqs=chrome.0.69i57j0j69i62.772j0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

It gives around 6 million entries.

Translate the entries for yourself with Google translate:

The first Arabic website was a blog that introduces him: “Hitler was not an
ordinary individual to be spun by the wheel of history to sprinkle him
behind as dust to be forgotten across this vast globe. He was neither the
king of the German people alone. He is one of the greatest few. Here is the
king of history.” Westerners might think that the first
comment on
such an article would be in disgust. Hardly. Muhammad Jasem posted: “If the
greatest leaders gather together, they would not equal the magnificence of
Hitler.” The rest of the comments were not far off. The second hit was a
YouTube page titled “The Cowardly
Jews,” showing
a Hitler lookalike walking the streets with Jewish passersby supposedly
terrified as they move out of his way. This “proves that Jews are cowards,”
the commentators interpreted.

2013/8/22 Alberto G. Corona 

> Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
> debates.
>
> Google: hitler arab countries television
>
>  It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same
> main goal. you know.
>
> Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
> thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.
>
> The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
> party.
>
> There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
> hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.
>
> If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
> fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites
>
>
>
> 2013/8/21 meekerdb 
>
>>  On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>>
>> That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
>> fact.
>>
>>
>> What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?
>>
>> Brent
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "Everything List" group.
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>> email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Alberto.
>

-- 
Alberto.

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Just follow the tv of muslim countries, and specially, the political
debates.

Google: hitler arab countries television

 It can not be otherwhise since te nazis and the muslims share the same
main goal. you know.

Abu Mazen, the leader of the PLO after Yasif Arafat wrote its doctoral
thesis at the university about denial of the Holocaust.

The Baaz party that ruled Iraq and Siria are inspired directly by the Nazi
party.

There are hundred of examples of continuous praise of hitler or
hitler-inspired ideas in the musling world.

If you search,  you can find a lot of nazi flags waved by muslim
fundamentalists. even on the top of mesquites

2013/8/21 meekerdb 

>  On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
>
> That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
> fact.
>
>
> What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?
>
> Brent
>
> --
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-- 
Alberto.

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

You merely stated what you see as the facts is true; I am sure you do see them 
as the facts and herein lies the problem. You have not looked very hard at 
history and the evolution of societies and cultures according to the pressures 
that force them to develop in this way or that.
 
Who is guilty of the selective reading of history -- the one who states that 
people in 3rd world countries somehow  love to live under despotism; or the 
person who calls that peculiar view into question?
 
And betraying your true beliefs you go on to say that those who do not 
subscribe to your twisted view of history are "progressive propagandists" 
diligently working to bring about the demise of the US"? -- The implication 
being that they therefore could and perhaps should be considered enemies of 
"freedom" -- and all those other self righteous and empty words -- and more to 
the point that these hated progressives are enemies of the state. How neat; 
dare to disagree with your particular ideologically motivated frame of 
reference and you risk becoming branded as an enemy... nice work there... what 
a goose stepping thing to utter.
 
Totalitarian minded people everywhere applaud your way of non-thinking.

  


 From: "spudboy...@aol.com" 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 2:07 PM
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
  


Rather than speak economic history, which is an interesting topic, I merely 
stated what I see the facts to be. More clearly, that when Adolf ran out of 
Roma, Jews, and the "mentally weak", to gas, and Poles and Great Russians to 
shoot, his camps would 've discovered other Untermenschen to slaughter, if only 
for bureaucratic reasons-to justify the process of racial hygiene, as it was 
termed. Adios, Arabs, Africans, South Asians and eventually, East Asians too. 
Both Adolf and Stalins murdering was like a heavy addiction, couldn't stop and 
wouldn't dream of it. 

As for seeking justification for the killing of Americans, I do take issue with 
this, and am likely immovable on this segment. The history of the people's of 
the world, before, the advent of the European imperialists, was no shinning 
glory of freedome and peace. This is usually the selective readings by 
Progressive progagandists seekinng the demise of the US and a few other 
nations. Which is really the whole point.


 
-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood


Mercantilist plantation systems, economic hegemony of the developed center and 
neo-colonialism have absolutely nothing to do with it right? Spud your world 
view is limited by the narrow slits you view it through. 
  
From:everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com?] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:51 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood 

Nazism would have gobbled down so many races and ethnic group that eventually 
it would have gone after yours? It's the love of tyrants that condemns the 
Third world to perpetual war and genocide. 

 
-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood 
Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow 
minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally 
politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.
 
Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the 
Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have 
been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free 
societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like 
euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would 
have been business as usual.
 
The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral 
values we have today are universal and that you can look back many 
decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having 
supported the Nazis back then.
 
In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is 
against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information 
did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and 
history has run a different course in different sectors of the 
multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact 
we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the 
multiverse, because all possible programs exists.
 
Saibal
 
 
Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:
 
> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it. 
> Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the 
> evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and i

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

push polls maybe
 


 From: meekerdb 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 12:51 PM
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
  


On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
 
That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a fact.  
What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent
 
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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread spudboy100


Rather than speak economic history, which is an interesting topic, I merely 
stated what I see the facts to be. More clearly, that when Adolf ran out of 
Roma, Jews, and the "mentally weak", to gas, and Poles and Great Russians to 
shoot, his camps would 've discovered other Untermenschen to slaughter, if only 
for bureaucratic reasons-to justify the process of racial hygiene, as it was 
termed. Adios, Arabs, Africans, South Asians and eventually, East Asians too. 
Both Adolf and Stalins murdering was like a heavy addiction, couldn't stop and 
wouldn't dream of it.

As for seeking justification for the killing of Americans, I do take issue with 
this, and am likely immovable on this segment. The history of the people's of 
the world, before, the advent of the European imperialists, was no shinning 
glory of freedome and peace. This is usually the selective readings by 
Progressive progagandists seekinng the demise of the US and a few other 
nations. Which is really the whole point.



-Original Message-
From: Chris de Morsella 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Wed, Aug 21, 2013 12:52 pm
Subject: RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood



Mercantilist plantation systems, economic hegemony of the developed center and 
neo-colonialism have absolutely nothing to do with it right? Spud your world 
view is limited by the narrow slits you view it through.
 
From: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:51 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
 
Nazism would have gobbled down so many races and ethnic group that eventually 
it would have gone after yours? It's the love of tyrants that condemns the 
Third world to perpetual war and genocide. 



-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow 
minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally 
politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.
 
Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the 
Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have 
been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free 
societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like 
euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would 
have been business as usual.
 
The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral 
values we have today are universal and that you can look back many 
decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having 
supported the Nazis back then.
 
In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is 
against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information 
did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and 
history has run a different course in different sectors of the 
multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact 
we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the 
multiverse, because all possible programs exists.
 
Saibal
 
 
Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:
 
> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it. 
> Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the 
> evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's 
> of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India, 
> using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate 
> it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: smitra 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> 
> Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
> etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
> ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.
> 
> iteren Roger Clough :
>> 
> The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y
> 
> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Everything List" group.
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> 
> 
> -
> ou

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

A suggestion don't spam the group with your right wing political ideology if 
you are truly interested in the group. 
 
You state things as facts which you have no way of knowing are in fact facts. 
You make a pompous and outrageous statement that Hitler is the most respected 
figure in the muslim world -- and call it a "FACT". Show me the exhaustive 
research you have done in order to arrive at this conclusion and that supports 
your assertion that this is in fact a fact. You cavalierly refer to a vast 
heterogeneous collection of different peoples on different continents with very 
different historical and cultural backgrounds that have sharing a faith in 
common -- and based on your profound ignorance you make sweeping broad 
statements characterizing all of them. Not the sign of a keen mind at work; 
rather more symptomatic of an ideologically blinded idiot blundering through 
their mental fog and making loud obnoxious noises, mistaking them as a sign of 
intelligence.
 
You are so full of it; I wonder how your gut holds itself together. Hopefully I 
have made my opinion of you and your stereotyping of others not exactly like 
you abundantly clear. Try to educate yourself about history and about other 
cultures.. maybe, just maybe you may judge less and possibly learn more.
 
  


 From: Alberto G. Corona 
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 11:48 AM
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
  


That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a fact. 

I know nothing from you except what you say in this thread. The bad thing about 
discussing subjects like this is that it attract undesirable people that really 
are not interested in the group. What do you think about the multiverse 
hypothesis what about the relation between matter math and mind?  



2013/8/21 Chris de Morsella 

You are utterly full of it. You make these statements like you knew…. What a 
pompous blow hard you are…. A very big mouth affixed to an atrophied brain is a 
guarantee of stupidity, and you my friend are an exemplar of this sad 
phenomena. 
> 
>From:everything-list@googlegroups.com 
>[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
>Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:50 AM
>To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
>Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood 
> 
>Hitler continues to be the most respected historical figure in muslim 
>countries, as well as in muslim minories in other countries. Therefore it is 
>not a surprise to me what smitra says.  
> 
>By the way this third-word mentality and this ate to the first world in the 
>intelectual elites of third word countries is the mindset that keep these 
>countries in the misery. Fortunately this is changing. 
> 
> 
>I will send to Roger yet another personal mail begging it to stop sending 
>spurious mails to this list 
> 
>2013/8/21 
>A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as economic 
>desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in society and then 
>people are always indioctrinated that their current norms and values are 
>correct. So, there was a time when when drawing and quartering was a normal 
>form of punishment, and we gradually moved away from that. If you move very 
>fast away from this, then there will be big differences in the opnions of 
>people about wthe current system being ok. or totally unacceptable.
>
>We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in society, 
>e.g. a Hitler coming to power who doesn't need to start a war (suppose e.g. 
>that Poland would ahve been annexed without the Western powers declaring war 
>on Germany). So, Hitler could have remained a popular dictator in Germany and 
>the Holocaust would have had a competely different character.
>
>From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the norm. So, 
>the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only in case of a 
>rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other peole who are not 
>extremist who can see this, also the extremists would find them having to 
>defend their views more.
>
>You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some 
>reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. the way 
>we run the World economy with billions of people living in poverty could be 
>called totally immoral by people who live a century from now. They could judge 
>us in a similar way as the would judge Nazis.
>
>Or, as in a recent SF movie, you can have an alien visiting us who then judges 
>us to be guilty of mass genocide against the environment and who then decides 
>that we should all be exterminated so that life on Earth can be saved from us.
>
>If i

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread meekerdb


On 8/21/2013 11:48 AM, Alberto G. Corona wrote:
That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a fact. 


What is the evidence for this?  Are there polls?

Brent

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread meekerdb


On 8/21/2013 7:01 AM, chris peck wrote:
But, in any case, yes, our descendants will view some of our norms and values as 
troubling. Just as we do our ancestors. This is because there is a gentle creep away 
from barbarity rather than towards it.


But I don't think this is just a moral evolution.  I think it is driven by technology. As 
societies become richer they become less competitive and insular and more compassionate 
and open.  If global warming or running out of oil or some other widespread diminution of 
ease and wealth occurs there will likely be a corresponding diminution in empathy and 
compassion.


Brent

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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

That Hitler is the most respected western figure in the muslim word is a
fact.

I know nothing from you except what you say in this thread. The bad thing
about discussing subjects like this is that it attract undesirable people
that really are not interested in the group. What do you think about the
multiverse hypothesis what about the relation between matter math and mind?


2013/8/21 Chris de Morsella 

> You are utterly full of it. You make these statements like you knew…. What
> a pompous blow hard you are…. A very big mouth affixed to an atrophied
> brain is a guarantee of stupidity, and you my friend are an exemplar of
> this sad phenomena.
>
> ** **
>
> *From:* everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:
> everything-list@googlegroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Alberto G. Corona
> *Sent:* Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:50 AM
> *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
> ** **
>
> Hitler continues to be the most respected historical figure in muslim
> countries, as well as in muslim minories in other countries. Therefore it
> is not a surprise to me what smitra says. 
>
> ** **
>
> By the way this third-word mentality and this ate to the first world in
> the intelectual elites of third word countries is the mindset that keep
> these countries in the misery. Fortunately this is changing.
>
> ** **
>
> ** **
>
> I will send to Roger yet another personal mail begging it to stop sending
> spurious mails to this list
>
> ** **
>
> 2013/8/21 
>
> A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as economic
> desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in society and
> then people are always indioctrinated that their current norms and values
> are correct. So, there was a time when when drawing and quartering was a
> normal form of punishment, and we gradually moved away from that. If you
> move very fast away from this, then there will be big differences in the
> opnions of people about wthe current system being ok. or totally
> unacceptable.
>
> We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in
> society, e.g. a Hitler coming to power who doesn't need to start a war
> (suppose e.g. that Poland would ahve been annexed without the Western
> powers declaring war on Germany). So, Hitler could have remained a popular
> dictator in Germany and the Holocaust would have had a competely different
> character.
>
> From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the norm.
> So, the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only in case
> of a rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other peole who
> are not extremist who can see this, also the extremists would find them
> having to defend their views more.
>
> You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some
> reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. the
> way we run the World economy with billions of people living in poverty
> could be called totally immoral by people who live a century from now. They
> could judge us in a similar way as the would judge Nazis.
>
> Or, as in a recent SF movie, you can have an alien visiting us who then
> judges us to be guilty of mass genocide against the environment and who
> then decides that we should all be exterminated so that life on Earth can
> be saved from us.
>
> If in one reasonable value system something can be genocide on an
> unimaginable scale, while in another one it is business as usual, then the
> processes that led to this being flagged as "business as usual" in our
> brains have their origin in arbitrary events in our history, as there is no
> preference for the flagging as "business as usual" being preferred given
> the way our brain works.
>
>
> Saibal
>
>
> Citeren Pierz :
>
> ** **
>
> "...since first of all the additional happiness in those non-WW3
> branches..." What I mean of course is the additional happiness in the WW3
> branches. The non-WW3 branches are much *less* happy right Saibal?
>
> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:49:59 AM UTC+10, Pierz wrote:
>
>
> Self-contradictory. You've got to follow your own theories to their
> logical conclusions. *Which* Western/third world would have been better off
> if WW3 hadn't happened? Since "everything happens" in some branch of the
> multiverse, surely there are innumerable branches in which the world is
> better off for not having undergone the horrors of WW3. Or are you saying
> that, if you summed human happiness in the branches of the hypothetical
> branch of the multiverse in which WW3 didn

RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

You are utterly full of it. You make these statements like you knew.. What a
pompous blow hard you are.. A very big mouth affixed to an atrophied brain
is a guarantee of stupidity, and you my friend are an exemplar of this sad
phenomena.

 

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Alberto G. Corona 
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:50 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 

Hitler continues to be the most respected historical figure in muslim
countries, as well as in muslim minories in other countries. Therefore it is
not a surprise to me what smitra says. 

 

By the way this third-word mentality and this ate to the first world in the
intelectual elites of third word countries is the mindset that keep these
countries in the misery. Fortunately this is changing.

 

 

I will send to Roger yet another personal mail begging it to stop sending
spurious mails to this list

 

2013/8/21 

A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as economic
desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in society and then
people are always indioctrinated that their current norms and values are
correct. So, there was a time when when drawing and quartering was a normal
form of punishment, and we gradually moved away from that. If you move very
fast away from this, then there will be big differences in the opnions of
people about wthe current system being ok. or totally unacceptable.

We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in society,
e.g. a Hitler coming to power who doesn't need to start a war (suppose e.g.
that Poland would ahve been annexed without the Western powers declaring war
on Germany). So, Hitler could have remained a popular dictator in Germany
and the Holocaust would have had a competely different character.

>From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the norm.
So, the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only in case of
a rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other peole who are
not extremist who can see this, also the extremists would find them having
to defend their views more.

You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some
reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. the way
we run the World economy with billions of people living in poverty could be
called totally immoral by people who live a century from now. They could
judge us in a similar way as the would judge Nazis.

Or, as in a recent SF movie, you can have an alien visiting us who then
judges us to be guilty of mass genocide against the environment and who then
decides that we should all be exterminated so that life on Earth can be
saved from us.

If in one reasonable value system something can be genocide on an
unimaginable scale, while in another one it is business as usual, then the
processes that led to this being flagged as "business as usual" in our
brains have their origin in arbitrary events in our history, as there is no
preference for the flagging as "business as usual" being preferred given the
way our brain works.


Saibal


Citeren Pierz :

 

"...since first of all the additional happiness in those non-WW3
branches..." What I mean of course is the additional happiness in the WW3
branches. The non-WW3 branches are much *less* happy right Saibal?

On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 9:49:59 AM UTC+10, Pierz wrote:


Self-contradictory. You've got to follow your own theories to their
logical conclusions. *Which* Western/third world would have been better off
if WW3 hadn't happened? Since "everything happens" in some branch of the
multiverse, surely there are innumerable branches in which the world is
better off for not having undergone the horrors of WW3. Or are you saying
that, if you summed human happiness in the branches of the hypothetical
branch of the multiverse in which WW3 didn't happen, and compared it to the
sum of human happiness in the branches in which it did, it would be higher
in the ones in which it didn't? Put that way, it becomes a rather absurd
claim wouldn't you say? And dubious - since first of all the additional
happiness in those non-WW3 branches has to make up for the staggering,
unimaginable misery of the holocaust, the Russian front, Hiroshima etc etc
before "getting ahead" at all, and secondly because this is all based on
the theory that Nazism not being "debunked" (It was exterminated) would
have led to an incorporation of fascist ideology into the mainstream of
global social organization, an extremely debatable proposition. Extremism
is fostered by economic desperation. If the world had had time to fully
recover from the depression, notions of invading the world would have
looked a lot less attractive to the fat, comfortable citizens of an
affluent w

RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Mercantilist plantation systems, economic hegemony of the developed center
and neo-colonialism have absolutely nothing to do with it right? Spud your
world view is limited by the narrow slits you view it through.

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com
[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of spudboy...@aol.com
Sent: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 7:51 AM
To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Nazism would have gobbled down so many races and ethnic group that
eventually it would have gone after yours? It's the love of tyrants that
condemns the Third world to perpetual war and genocide. 

-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow 
minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally 
politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.

Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the 
Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have 
been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free 
societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like 
euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would 
have been business as usual.

The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral 
values we have today are universal and that you can look back many 
decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having 
supported the Nazis back then.

In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is 
against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information 
did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and 
history has run a different course in different sectors of the 
multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact 
we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the 
multiverse, because all possible programs exists.

Saibal

Citeren spudboy...@aol.com:

> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it. 
> Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the 
> evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's 
> of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India, 
> using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate 
> it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: smitra 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> 
> Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
> etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
> ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.
> 
> iteren Roger Clough :
>> 
> The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y
> 
> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
> 
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
> 
> 
> -
> ou received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> Everything List" group.
> o unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email
> o everything-list+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
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> 
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Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

d a lot less attractive to the fat, comfortable citizens of an
>>> affluent western Europe, and Nazism may well have died a quiet death
>>> without the need for apocalypse. But of course I won't argue that's what
>>> *would* have happened, because making predictions about the consequences
>>> of
>>> any single event or change in world history is impossible. If you'd like
>>> to
>>> disagree, please tell us all what the consequences of the Arab uprisings
>>> will be in twenty years' time. We'll check back in then and see how well
>>> you performed.
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, August 21, 2013 8:56:57 AM UTC+10, smi...@zonnet.nl wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>> Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow
>>>> minded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally
>>>> politically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.
>>>>
>>>> Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the
>>>> Western World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have
>>>> been debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free
>>>> societies. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like
>>>> euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would
>>>> have been business as usual.
>>>>
>>>> The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral
>>>> values we have today are universal and that you can look back many
>>>> decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having
>>>> supported the Nazis back then.
>>>>
>>>> In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is
>>>> against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information
>>>> did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and
>>>> history has run a different course in different sectors of the
>>>> multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact
>>>> we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the
>>>> multiverse, because all possible programs exists.
>>>>
>>>> Saibal
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Citeren spudb...@aol.com:
>>>>
>>>> > I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it.
>>>> > Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the
>>>> > evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's
>>>> > of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India,
>>>> > using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate
>>>> > it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > -Original Message-
>>>> > From: smitra 
>>>> > To: everything-list 
>>>> > Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
>>>> > Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>>>> >
>>>> >
>>>> > Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
>>>> > etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
>>>> > ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.
>>>> >
>>>> > iteren Roger Clough :
>>>> >>
>>>> > The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
>>>> >
>>>> > https://www.youtube.com/watch?**v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y<https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y>
>>>> >
>>>> > Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
>>>> > See my Leibniz site at
>>>> > http://independent.academia.**edu/RogerClough<http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough>
>>>> >
>>>> > --
>>>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
>>>> > Groups "Everything List" group.
>>>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
>>>> > send an email to 
>>>> > everything-li...@googlegroups.**com
>>>> .
>>>> > To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
>>>> > Visit this group at 
>>>> > http://groups.google.com/**group/everything-list<http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list>
>>>> .
>>>> > For more optio

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread spudboy100

Nazism would have gobbled down so many races and ethnic group that eventually 
it would have gone after yours? It's the love of tyrants that condemns the 
Third world to perpetual war and genocide. 

-Original Message-
From: smitra 
To: everything-list 
Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 6:57 pm
Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

Roger may start a discussion on politics and presents some very narrow 
inded views, but I can present a different view that may be totally 
olitically incorect but is i.m.o. the right view.
Not only is the 3rd World better off with WWII having happened, the 
estern World is also better off. Without WWII, Nazism would not have 
een debunked and we would gradually have evolved to become less free 
ocieties. Ideas that are totally politically incorrect like 
uthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would 
ave been business as usual.
The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral 
alues we have today are universal and that you can look back many 
ecades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having 
upported the Nazis back then.
In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is 
gainst his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information 
id not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and 
istory has run a different course in different sectors of the 
ultiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact 
e can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the 
ultiverse, because all possible programs exists.
Saibal

iteren spudboy...@aol.com:
> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it. 
 Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the 
 evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's 
 of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India, 
 using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate 
 it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.

 -Original Message-
 From: smitra 
 To: everything-list 
 Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
 Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

 Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
 etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
 ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.

 iteren Roger Clough :
>
 The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood

 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y

 Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
 See my Leibniz site at
 http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough

 --
 You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
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 Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread chris peck

>> A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as 
economic desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in 
society and then people are always indioctrinated that their current 
norms and values are correct.

Of course we regard our norms and values as correct. They are our norms and 
values.
However, history shows a steady flow towards more humane rather than less 
humane norms and values.


>> So, there was a time when when drawing 
and quartering was a normal form of punishment, and we gradually moved 
away from that. 

Quite. we have gradually moved away from that kind of obscenity rather than 
towards it.

>> We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in 
society

No, by your very own example we are more sensitive to it. Like you point out, 
we have gradually moved to the point where barbarities like drawing and 
quartering are less acceptable. We now regard kicking a dog as barbaric let 
alone public execution.

>> So, Hitler could have remained a popular dictator in Germany and the 
>> Holocaust would have had a completely different character.

By your own argument so far this is a non-sequitur. Moreover, you have failed 
to show how Hitler could ever have come to power in the absence of economic 
desperation. You haven't even argued for it. You ought to be demonstrating a 
gentle creep into barbarity but you demonstrate the opposite.

>> From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the 
norm. So, the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only 
in case of a rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other 
people who are not extremist who can see this, also the extremists would 
find them having to defend their views more.

We gradually moved from societies in which slavery was an accepted norm to ones 
which regard it as barbaric. This happened without cataclysm. This amounts to a 
falsifying example. This may help:

http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/glossary/principle_of_falsification.html

>>You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some 
reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. 
the way we run the World economy with billions of people living in 
poverty could be called totally immoral by people who live a century 
from now.

This has been regarded as immoral for a very long time. You should read up on 
this gentleman. 

http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/marx/

But, in any case, yes, our descendants will view some of our norms and values 
as troubling. Just as we do our ancestors. This is because there is a gentle 
creep away from barbarity rather than towards it.

>> They could judge us in a similar way as the would judge Nazis.

If they were stupid. Intelligent judges from the future would recognize that by 
the 21st century the gradual reduction in barbarity over millenia had reached a 
point where poverty, womens rights, animal rights, gay rights, could come to 
the forefront of the moral agenda. Its not the case that poverty was not an 
issue before, but that prior to the past 50 years or so there have been more 
pressing and blood thirsty barbarities to quell.

All the best.

> Date: Wed, 21 Aug 2013 14:41:43 +0200
> From: smi...@zonnet.nl
> To: everything-list@googlegroups.com
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
> 
> A rapid descent into extremism can be caused by factors such as 
> economic desperation. However, you can also have a gradual change in 
> society and then people are always indioctrinated that their current 
> norms and values are correct. So, there was a time when when drawing 
> and quartering was a normal form of punishment, and we gradually moved 
> away from that. If you move very fast away from this, then there will 
> be big differences in the opnions of people about wthe current system 
> being ok. or totally unacceptable.
> 
> We are thus more vulnerable to extremism due to gradual changes in 
> society, e.g. a Hitler coming to power who doesn't need to start a war 
> (suppose e.g. that Poland would ahve been annexed without the Western 
> powers declaring war on Germany). So, Hitler could have remained a 
> popular dictator in Germany and the Holocaust would have had a 
> competely different character.
> 
>  From the point of view of an extremist, the extremists views are the 
> norm. So, the extremist doesn't see that he is an extremist. It is only 
> in case of a rapid descent into extremism that there will be many other 
> peole who are not extremist who can see this, also the extremists would 
> find them having to defend their views more.
> 
> You an then also ask if we are actually already extremists from some 
> reasonable point of view that our distant descendants may have. E.g. 
> the way we run the World economy with billions of peopl

Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood

2013-08-21 Thread smitra

lly incorrect like
euthanizing old and handicap people to save health care costs would
have been business as usual.

The fundamental mistake Roger makes is to think that the core moral
values we have today are universal and that you can look back many
decades and then condemn e.g. the Muslim Brotherhood for having
supported the Nazis back then.

In the end, Roger's brain is just executing a prgram, whatever is
against his moral values is encoded in his brain and that information
did not come out of thin air. Had history run a different course (and
history has run a different course in different sectors of the
multiverse), Roger would have supported Nazi policies himself. In fact
we can be sure that such a Nazi version of Roger exsts in the
multiverse, because all possible programs exists.

Saibal


Citeren spudb...@aol.com:

> I do not see why Roger, needs, politics in this forum, but, so be it.
> Smitra expresses a view that decides the US, has to be ruined for the
> evil it has conspired against the wonderful, and innocent, people's
> of the 3rd world. I am guessing that when the ISI strikes India,
> using enhanced fission devices, he will be content that they detonate
> it only on legitimate military targets? Enjoy.
>
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: smitra 
> To: everything-list 
> Sent: Tue, Aug 20, 2013 8:13 am
> Subject: Re: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood
>
>
> Also I believe that 9/11 was a good thing, albeit it would have been
> etter if Bin Laden had focusses only on legitimate military targets
> ike the White House, the US Congress, the Senate and the Pentagon.
>
> iteren Roger Clough :
>>
> The Nazi history of the terrorist Muslim Brotherhood
>
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9jk4a3Kk6-Y
>
> Dr. Roger B Clough NIST (ret.) [1/1/2000]
> See my Leibniz site at
> http://independent.academia.edu/RogerClough
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "Everything List" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it,
> send an email to everything-li...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to everyth...@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/everything-list.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
>
>
> -
> ou received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups
> Everything List" group.
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RE: The Nazi History of the Muslim Brotherhood