Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Animations
I did a check in 3D Studio and it shows that the name of these objects does indeed end with an 'H'. I re-exported the model again but these particular control surfaces still don't move if I refer to them as whateverH in the XML file. So this prompt me to check the actual 3ds file rather than the max file (max file is the actual file that I work with -- a source, so to speak). One look at the object list and I know why we have this missing H problem -- 3ds only allows a name of ten characters, and "Elevator01H" has eleven characters. Sorry for the inconvience. Regards, Ampere On May 24, 2004 09:05 pm, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > On May 24, 2004 04:54 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Hmm, actually, it's kinda funny. I was originally only confirming your > > observation that ailerons, flaps and spoilers were animating correcty on > > a different system. But your question triggered my curiosity, and I > > decided to explore the 3ds file a litte bit. I found that the objects > > named Elevator01H through Elevator06H didn't exist in the 3ds file I > > downloaded. So I changed the object name in the md11.xml file to remove > > the trailing 'H' and now elevator animation also works on my side. :-) > > So, you might want to check the names of the elevator objects in your > > model file. Remember, since I don't have 3d studio on my computer, the > > only way to examine these files is by dumping them to a console and make > > use to the standard unix tools (grep, cat, less) to make sense out of > > them. :-) > > > > Well, I hope this gives you a hint at the problem. > > Strange. I thought they are named Elevator01H, Elevator02H, etc. I will > have a check again. Thanks. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Animations
On May 24, 2004 04:54 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > Hmm, actually, it's kinda funny. I was originally only confirming your > observation that ailerons, flaps and spoilers were animating correcty on a > different system. But your question triggered my curiosity, and I decided > to explore the 3ds file a litte bit. I found that the objects named > Elevator01H through Elevator06H didn't exist in the 3ds file I downloaded. > So I changed the object name in the md11.xml file to remove the trailing > 'H' and now elevator animation also works on my side. :-) So, you might > want to check the names of the elevator objects in your model file. > Remember, since I don't have 3d studio on my computer, the only way to > examine these files is by dumping them to a console and make use to the > standard unix tools (grep, cat, less) to make sense out of them. :-) > > Well, I hope this gives you a hint at the problem. Strange. I thought they are named Elevator01H, Elevator02H, etc. I will have a check again. Thanks. > B.t.w. by "trimming", do you refer to the JSBSim ground trimming procedure? > That's fixed on my system now, and should traverse its way into flightgear > soon. The trimming I used in the last E-mail was referring to the elevator trimming. By the way, how come the spoilers-position-norm and speedbrake-position-norm properties aren't used? What is the difference between the two anyway? Regards, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Animations
Hmm, actually, it's kinda funny. I was originally only confirming your observation that ailerons, flaps and spoilers were animating correcty on a different system. But your question triggered my curiosity, and I decided to explore the 3ds file a litte bit. I found that the objects named Elevator01H through Elevator06H didn't exist in the 3ds file I downloaded. So I changed the object name in the md11.xml file to remove the trailing 'H' and now elevator animation also works on my side. :-) So, you might want to check the names of the elevator objects in your model file. Remember, since I don't have 3d studio on my computer, the only way to examine these files is by dumping them to a console and make use to the standard unix tools (grep, cat, less) to make sense out of them. :-) Well, I hope this gives you a hint at the problem. B.t.w. by "trimming", do you refer to the JSBSim ground trimming procedure? That's fixed on my system now, and should traverse its way into flightgear soon. Cheers, Durk rotate Elevator01 Elevator02 surface-positions/elevator-pos-norm 18 57.70729 -8.7 1.96712 -2.24377 4.65299 -0.63319 rotate Elevator05 Elevator06 surface-positions/elevator-pos-norm 18 55.46352 4.12478 1.33393 2.24377 4.65299 0.63319 On Monday 24 May 2004 21:58, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Do the elevators and the trim works for you? > > Regards, > Ampere > > On May 24, 2004 02:34 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Okay, these animations all work nicely now. > > > > > The attachment contains what I have done so far. Control surfaces that > > > are working are the ailerons, flaps and spoilers. Control surfaces > > > that aren't working are the elevators and I can use some help with > > > them. I have put off doing the rudders until the textures are done. > > > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Animations
Do the elevators and the trim works for you? Regards, Ampere On May 24, 2004 02:34 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > Okay, these animations all work nicely now. > > > The attachment contains what I have done so far. Control surfaces that > > are working are the ailerons, flaps and spoilers. Control surfaces that > > aren't working are the elevators and I can use some help with them. I > > have put off doing the rudders until the textures are done. > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Animations
Okay, these animations all work nicely now. > The attachment contains what I have done so far. Control surfaces that are > working are the ailerons, flaps and spoilers. Control surfaces that aren't > working are the elevators and I can use some help with them. I have put > off doing the rudders until the textures are done. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
Hi Innis, On Mon, 17 May 2004 10:13:25 +0800 Innis Cunningham wrote: > >When doing my B717, I used qcad to measure things from these > >drawings. Like engine placement, pilot viewpoint and also got me > >started with the 3D model (which isn't finished yet, so if someone > >wants to finish the 3D model... raise your hand :-) > >The jsbsim aero file should be quite flyable. > > > >so... any takers for the 3D model ? Its in Blender format. > You can send it to me but I doubt I would get to it for a > month or so till I am finished what I am currently working on. > If you send it could you send it in AC3D(prefered) or DXF. Its available here: http://cockpit.varxec.de/fgfs/fgfs_717-200_71.blend.gz (just the blenderfile, gzipped) http://cockpit.varxec.de/fgfs/fgfs_717-200.tar.bz2 (fdm, engine config, and 3d model in .ac format) Note that I haven't touched the model since September... so the JSBSim configs will have to be converted to the new format. The directory layout may also have to be changed. I currently don't have a recent flightgear checkout (my computer needs updating in the hardware area as well to allow me to enjoy flightgear again), so I can't do much right now. Most of my free time is currently going into PHCC, my home cockpit interface project for flightgear: http://cockpit.varxec.de/PHCC.html (If you are more interested in this project, join the sim-hardware list: http://m18s17.vlinux.de/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/sim-hardware ) Innis and Ampere, thanks for taking a look at my model... Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
> Have you checked this page: > http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/3d_view.html > > It contains .dxf drawings of the different Boeings (and MD/DCs) A GOLD MINE! I searched high and low and I have never found stuff like that... and it is so close too! I visit the Boeing's website practically everyday! With the DXF files, I can do some shape merging in 3D Studio and get a 100% accurate model! > When doing my B717, I used qcad to measure things from these drawings. > Like engine placement, pilot viewpoint and also got me started with > the 3D model (which isn't finished yet, so if someone wants to finish > the 3D model... raise your hand :-) > The jsbsim aero file should be quite flyable. > > so... any takers for the 3D model ? Its in Blender format. > I wouldn't mind taking a look at it, although I will have to finish the MD-11 first. That may take a while. Thanks, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
Hi Manuel Manuel Bessler Writes When doing my B717, I used qcad to measure things from these drawings. Like engine placement, pilot viewpoint and also got me started with the 3D model (which isn't finished yet, so if someone wants to finish the 3D model... raise your hand :-) The jsbsim aero file should be quite flyable. so... any takers for the 3D model ? Its in Blender format. You can send it to me but I doubt I would get to it for a month or so till I am finished what I am currently working on. If you send it could you send it in AC3D(prefered) or DXF. Regards, Manuel Cheers Innis _ Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
On Sat, May 15, 2004 at 07:09:21PM -0400, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > I have been doing some hunting lately; namely, looking for information > regarding the MD-11's flightdeck: dimensions, layout, technical diagrams, > etc. I have tried many search keywords on the Internet, my local library, as > well as my university's library. So far, I have no luck. Have you checked this page: http://www.boeing.com/assocproducts/aircompat/3d_view.html It contains .dxf drawings of the different Boeings (and MD/DCs) When doing my B717, I used qcad to measure things from these drawings. Like engine placement, pilot viewpoint and also got me started with the 3D model (which isn't finished yet, so if someone wants to finish the 3D model... raise your hand :-) The jsbsim aero file should be quite flyable. so... any takers for the 3D model ? Its in Blender format. Regards, Manuel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
> I can't help you with dimensions or technical diagrams or stuff like that. > But since you included layout, and said you've had no luck, did you try > a Google "Images" search? I know that images of the panel are not as > useful as detailed layout info; but hey, better than nothing. Through a > Google "Images" search, I got some panel images that way; to whit, > > http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit1large.jpg > http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit2large.jpg > http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit3large.jpg > http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit4large.jpg > > Also, going here: > > http://airliners.net/search/ > > and doing a search on "McDonnell Douglass MD-11" as the Aircraft Type, > and "Flight Decks (Cockpits)" as the Category, got me 127 different MD-11 > cockpit photos, including close-ups of various parts of the hardware. > I think I must have used the word "layout" incorrectly. I mean layout, as in 2D overhead drawings of the cockpit, like schematics. I have seen all the photos on airliners.net, as well as those on jetphotots.net. They give me an idea of what the cockpit of a MD-11 should look like, but they aren't helpful in modelling. Thanks anyway though. > Here's an (unfortunately fairly small) diagram of the captain's > panel: > > http://www.si-properties.com/sat98/images/news_16-10-98_cockpit.jpg > That's one of the things that I have been looking for since this morning. Thanks! =) Funny that when you don't need something (yet), they keep showing up. When you actually look them up, they don't seem to exist. Thanks, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 cockpit
On Sat, 15 May 2004 19:09:21 -0400 "Ampere K. Hardraade" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I have been doing some hunting lately; namely, looking for information > regarding the MD-11's flightdeck: dimensions, layout, technical > diagrams, etc. I have tried many search keywords on the Internet, my > local library, as well as my university's library. So far, I have no > luck. > > I was wondering if anyone knows where I can find the above information. I can't help you with dimensions or technical diagrams or stuff like that. But since you included layout, and said you've had no luck, did you try a Google "Images" search? I know that images of the panel are not as useful as detailed layout info; but hey, better than nothing. Through a Google "Images" search, I got some panel images that way; to whit, http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit1large.jpg http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit2large.jpg http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit3large.jpg http://agrosz.com/md11/gallery/cockpit4large.jpg Also, going here: http://airliners.net/search/ and doing a search on "McDonnell Douglass MD-11" as the Aircraft Type, and "Flight Decks (Cockpits)" as the Category, got me 127 different MD-11 cockpit photos, including close-ups of various parts of the hardware. Here's an (unfortunately fairly small) diagram of the captain's panel: http://www.si-properties.com/sat98/images/news_16-10-98_cockpit.jpg Here are some other photos that maybe useful: tttp://www.thaiops.com/images/tcas1.jpg http://www.thaiops.com/images/tcas2.jpg http://www.tsb.gc.ca/en/media/photo_database/A98H0003/md_11/md11_5.asp http://www.lindauer-fly.ch/ck_swiss_md11.htm These people, for $25, seem to sell a poster that reproduces the cockpit instrumentation layout in detail: http://www.avsoft.net/md%2011%20stuff.htm I hope some of this is helpful. -c -- Chris Metzler [EMAIL PROTECTED] (remove "snip-me." to email) "As a child I understood how to give; I have forgotten this grace since I have become civilized." - Chief Luther Standing Bear pgp3iJRZGKLPV.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Sorry for the delay. Some control surfaces don't look right since the beginning, so I had to redo them. Figuring out what to do took me one day; actually doing it and doing measurments took a day; doing the script took another. The script is in the lower half section of this E-mail. Download the latest version of the mesh at http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds first. It will be a good idea for you guys to send me whatever you have so far. It will be easier for me to refine the animations this way. Regards, Ampere UFlap01, LFlap01 pass through: [38.988666,16.250,-2.16] [36.902069,12.0,-2.42] displacement in vector: [-2.086597,-4.25,-0.26] UFlap02, LFlap02 pass through: [34.325,6.50,-3.12] [33.433798,2.276997,-4.039153] displacement in vector: [-0.891202,-4.223003,-0.919153] UFlap03, LFlap03 pass through: [33.433798,2.276997,-4.039153] [34.325,-6.50,-3.12] displacement in vector: [0.891202,4.223003,0.919153] UFlap04, LFlap04 pass through: [36.902069,-12.0,-2.42] [38.988666,-16.250,-2.16] displacement in vector: [2.086597,4.25,0.26] Spoiler01, Spoiler02, Spoiler03, Spoiler04 pass through: [39.43583,17.90,-0.648207] [35.511719,9.873492,-0.898592] diplacement in vector: [-3.924111,-8.026508,-0.250385] Spoiler05 passes through: [34.294122,7.233,-1.149238] [33.402924,3.01,-1.903888] displacement in vector: [-0.891198,-4.223,-0.75465] Spoiler06 passes through: [-33.402924,-3.01,-1.903888] [-34.294122,-7.233,-1.149238] displacement in vector: [0.891198,4.223,0.75465] Spoiler07, Spoiler08, Spoiler09, Spoiler10 pass through: [35.511719,-9.873492,-0.898592] [39.43583,-17.90,-0.648207] diplacement in vector: [3.924111,8.026508,0.250385] Elevator01, Elevator02 pass through: [57.523126,8.8182,2.120778] [53.016528,0,0.81] displacement in vector: [-4.506598,-8.8182,-1.310778] Elevator03, Elevator04 pass through: [53.016528,0,0.81] [57.523126,-8.8182,2.120778] displacement in vector: [4.506598,8.8182,1.310778] Aileron01 passes through: [42.583707,23.00,-0.628797] [39.943802,18.10,-0.793894] displacement in vector: [-2.639905,-4.9,-0.165097] Aileron02 passes through: [35.295001,9.10,-1.094963] [34.9.00995,7.233,-1.455891] displacement in vector: [-0.395001,-1.867,-0.360928] Aileron03 passes through: [34.9.00995,-7.233,-1.455891] [35.295001,-9.10,-1.094963] displacement in vector: [0.395001,1.867,0.360928] Aileron04 passes through: [-39.943802,-18.10,-0.793894] [-42.583707,-23.00,-0.628797] displacement in vector: [2.639905,4.9,0.165097] Fan01 passes through: [26.981256,8.20,-2.89] displacement in vector: [1,0,0] Fan02 passes through: [61.6,0,3.680] [55.3745,0,4.066549] displacement in vector: [-6.2255,0,0.386549] Fan03 passes through: [26.981256,-8.20,-2.89] displacement in vector: [1,0,0] Slat01 passes through: [41.135202,24.254921,-3.827834] [29.322235,8.45,-4.019306] displacement in vector: [-11.812967,-15.804921,-0.191472] Slat 02 passes through: [28.937213,79.50,-4.026289] displacement in vector: [0,1,0] Slat 03 passes through: [28.937213,-79.50,-4.026289] displacement in vector: [0,1,0] Slat04 passes through: [41.135202,-24.254921,-3.827834] [29.322235,-8.45,-4.019306] displacement in vector: [11.812967,15.804921,0.191472] URudder, LRudder pass through: [54.3,0,6.25] [58.3,0,12.24] displacement in vector: [4,0,5.99] * rotate Aileron01H controls/flight/aileron 18 42.584 23.0 -0.629 -2.640 -4.90 -0.165 rotate Aileron02H controls/flight/aileron 18 35.295 9.10 -1.095 -0.395 -1.867 -0.361 rotate Aileron03H controls/flight/aileron 18 -34.901 -7.233 -1.456 0.395 1.867 0.361 rotate Aileron04H controls/flight/aileron 18 -39.944 -18.10 -0.794 2.640 4.90 0.165 rotate Elevator01H Elevator02H controls/flight/elevator 18 57.523 8.818 2.121 -4.507 -8.818 -1.311 rotate Elevator03H Elevator04H controls/flight/elevator 18 53.017 0.0 0.81 4.507 8.818 1.311 rotate URudderH LRudderH controls/flight/rudder 18 54.30 0.0 6.25 4.0 0.0 5.99 rotate UFlap01H controls/flight/flaps -30 38.989 16.250 -2.16 -2.087 -4.25 -0.26 rotate LFlap01H controls/flight/flaps -60 38.989 16.250 -2.16 -2.087 -4.25 -0.26 rotate UFlap02H controls/flight/flaps -30 34.325 6.50 -3.12 -0.891 -4.223 -0.919 rotate LFlap02H controls/flight/flaps -60 34.325 6.50 -3.12 0.891 4.223 0.919 rotate UFlap03H controls/flight/flaps -30 33.434 2.277 -4.039 0.891 4.223 0.919 rotate LFlap03H controls/flight/flaps -60 33.434 2.277 -4.039 -0.891 -4.223 -0.919 rotate UFlap04H controls/flight/flaps -30 36.902 -12.0 -2.42 2.087 4.25 0.26 rotate LFlap04H controls/flight/flaps -60 36.902 -12.0 -2.42 2.087 4
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On May 12, 2004 02:10 am, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Ampere > If I gave the impression that I wanted to do some or all > of the animations that was not my intention. > I just ran a bit of animation code to see if FG had any > problems reading 3DS scripts and it did not. > I put the code below into the animation file and it > seems to work fine if that is any help to you. > As you seem to have it well under control I will leave it > in your capable hands. > > Cheers > Innis I see. I think I will need help when I get around to do the cockpit. I have been reading the read-me file in the mini-doc directory as well as some actual code. So far, the process of creating the cockpit seem to be very complicated, not to mention confusing. Speaking of the cockpit, is it possible to create a stand alone mesh file for the cockpit, or must I integrate the cockpit model into the aircraft's mesh file? > > Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis runs > > sideway. > > No, that's not weird, that's standard in aeronautical engineering! > (with the z-axis pointing down, btw.) > > Cheers, > -Gerhard Oh, alright. I was just wondering. > > Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis > > runs sideway. > > What convention would you have chosen? :) > > Coordinate systems are like cuisines. There's no accounting for > taste, and you can't fix things by mixing them together. > > Andy I thought y-axis should be the one that goes length-wise. If x-axis running length-wise is the standard in engineering, then I will have to follow convention. =) > On Wednesday 12 May 2004 16:20, Andy Ross wrote: > > Mathias Fröhlich wrote: > > > May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that > > > model animation HOWTO? > > > > Or even generate a runtime warning during parsing. This is a really > > easy typo to make. > > I guess both are excellent ideas. I consulted David Culp's 737 config file > to find out why the MD11 animation didn't work initially, and I didn't even > spot the difference in leading slash between his configuration file and the > animation section I had just I copied from Ampere's email until Erik's > message. > > Cheers, > Durk Actually, I copy that particular code directly from http://flightgear.org/Docs/fgfs-model-howto.html . All I did was changing the values for the x, y, and z coordinates. May be someone should go and fix the tutorial as soon as possible. Regards, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Tue, 2004-05-11 at 23:16, Durk Talsma wrote: > On Tuesday 11 May 2004 08:31, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > Well Ampere the good news is that FG is quite happy > > to animate using the 3DS file. > > Another piece of good news is that the ground trimming problems have been > solved by Mathias Frolich. His proposed solution is currently under > investigation by Tony Peden and will hopefully traverse it's way from JSBSim > cvs to FlightGear cvs wthin the next few days/weeks. It's in JSBSim CVS now, just needs to get into FG. > > Cheers, > Durk > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel -- Tony Peden <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Giles Robertson wrote: How often do people need to specify the state of gear etc globally? I can't, offhand, think of a point at which you want all the aircraft in the world how drop the gear. Considering this, is the typo easy enough to make that we ought to change the behaviour? - or is this mucking up the established system too much? Or perhaps, /property/value should reference to the aircraft currently under user control, which would extend compatibility if we ever implement a 'switch which aircraft you are flying in mid-air' feature. The problem is that this is only required for certain parts of the property tree (animation and maybe sound related), but other parts of the property tree should be accessible globally (time, sun positions, etc). Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Wednesday 12 May 2004 16:20, Andy Ross wrote: > Mathias Fröhlich wrote: > > May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that > > model animation HOWTO? > > Or even generate a runtime warning during parsing. This is a really > easy typo to make. > I guess both are excellent ideas. I consulted David Culp's 737 config file to find out why the MD11 animation didn't work initially, and I didn't even spot the difference in leading slash between his configuration file and the animation section I had just I copied from Ampere's email until Erik's message. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: > May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that > model animation HOWTO? Or even generate a runtime warning during parsing. This is a really easy typo to make. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
How often do people need to specify the state of gear etc globally? I can't, offhand, think of a point at which you want all the aircraft in the world how drop the gear. Considering this, is the typo easy enough to make that we ought to change the behaviour? - or is this mucking up the established system too much? Or perhaps, /property/value should reference to the aircraft currently under user control, which would extend compatibility if we ever implement a 'switch which aircraft you are flying in mid-air' feature. Giles Robertson > -Original Message- > From: Andy Ross [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: 12 May 2004 14:21 > To: FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News > > Mathias Fröhlich wrote: > > May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that > > model animation HOWTO? > > Or even generate a runtime warning during parsing. This is a really > easy typo to make. > > Andy > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis > runs sideway. What convention would you have chosen? :) Coordinate systems are like cuisines. There's no accounting for taste, and you can't fix things by mixing them together. Andy ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Mathias Fröhlich wrote: On Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 09:56, Erik Hofman wrote: Just a heads up for every body again, Don't add the leading slash to the animation property (/controls/flight/rudder) but use relative paths instead (controls/flight/rudder) This allows the AIModel code to animate the model based on the property system for the particular AIModel rather than for the main aircraft (controlled by the user). Since the AIModel code will probably be used for ATC models and by the multiplayer code in the future this will give a much nicer view. For one thing that would mean that if the users extends the gear, all the AIModel will continue with gear up, instead of lowering the gear at the same time! May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that model animation HOWTO? Yes, that would be a good idea. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Mittwoch, 12. Mai 2004 09:56, Erik Hofman wrote: > Just a heads up for every body again, Don't add the leading slash to the > animation property (/controls/flight/rudder) but > use relative paths instead (controls/flight/rudder) > > This allows the AIModel code to animate the model based on the property > system for the particular AIModel rather than for the main aircraft > (controlled by the user). > > Since the AIModel code will probably be used for ATC models and by the > multiplayer code in the future this will give a much nicer view. > > For one thing that would mean that if the users extends the gear, all > the AIModel will continue with gear up, instead of lowering the gear at > the same time! May be this 'do not use a leading slach' should also show up in that model animation HOWTO? Greetings Mathias -- Mathias Fröhlich, email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Durk Talsma wrote: Hi Ampere, I just tried your animation file. All I had to change were the lines that read /controls/rudder to /controls/flight/rudder and then I saw a nicely animated rudder appearing. Just a heads up for every body again, Don't add the leading slash to the animation property (/controls/flight/rudder) but use relative paths instead (controls/flight/rudder) This allows the AIModel code to animate the model based on the property system for the particular AIModel rather than for the main aircraft (controlled by the user). Since the AIModel code will probably be used for ATC models and by the multiplayer code in the future this will give a much nicer view. For one thing that would mean that if the users extends the gear, all the AIModel will continue with gear up, instead of lowering the gear at the same time! Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Tue, May 11, 2004 at 07:04:03PM -0400, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis runs > sideway. No, that's not weird, that's standard in aeronautical engineering! (with the z-axis pointing down, btw.) Cheers, -Gerhard -- Gerhard Wesp o o Tel.: +41 (0) 43 5347636 Bachtobelstrasse 56 | http://www.cosy.sbg.ac.at/~gwesp/ CH-8045 Zuerich \_/ See homepage for email address! ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Tuesday 11 May 2004 08:31, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Well Ampere the good news is that FG is quite happy > to animate using the 3DS file. Another piece of good news is that the ground trimming problems have been solved by Mathias Frolich. His proposed solution is currently under investigation by Tony Peden and will hopefully traverse it's way from JSBSim cvs to FlightGear cvs wthin the next few days/weeks. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Hi Ampere If I gave the impression that I wanted to do some or all of the animations that was not my intention. I just ran a bit of animation code to see if FG had any problems reading 3DS scripts and it did not. I put the code below into the animation file and it seems to work fine if that is any help to you. As you seem to have it well under control I will leave it in your capable hands. Cheers Innis "Ampere K. Hardraade" writes Okay, let try something simple first. URudder and LRudder pass through the following coordinates: [54.3,0,6.25] [58.3,0,12.24] Displacement of the two points in vector is: [4,0,5.99] I believe the XML will be this: rotate URudder /controls/rudder 18 54.30 0.0 6.25 4.0 0.0 5.99 rotate LRudder /controls/rudder 18 54.30 0.0 6.25 4.0 0.0 5.99 Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis runs sideway. Regards, Ampere _ Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Hi Ampere, I just tried your animation file. All I had to change were the lines that read /controls/rudder to /controls/flight/rudder and then I saw a nicely animated rudder appearing. > > Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis runs > sideway. > IIRC, this is a know problem of the plib 3ds model read function. We could have rotated the 3ds model by 90 degs in FlightGear's md11.xml file, so that the model would still have used the X-axis is front to back convention. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
Okay, let try something simple first. URudder and LRudder pass through the following coordinates: [54.3,0,6.25] [58.3,0,12.24] Displacement of the two points in vector is: [4,0,5.99] I believe the XML will be this: rotate URudder /controls/rudder 18 54.30 0.0 6.25 4.0 0.0 5.99 rotate LRudder /controls/rudder 18 54.30 0.0 6.25 4.0 0.0 5.99 Weird how the X-axis runs lengthwise in FlightGear, while the Y-axis runs sideway. Regards, Ampere On May 11, 2004 06:11 pm, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > There is no need to reposition the pivots, and I would like to avoid doing > that if possible. > > http://flightgear.org/Docs/fgfs-model-howto.html > > Search for the phrase "For the point through which the axis passes, you use > the /center/x-m, /center/y-m, and /center/z-m properties to specify a > position in meters, using the aircraft's coordinate system. " > > The section shows how one can specify a point and a vector as an axis for a > specific control surface. I will post the information regarding the axis > later on. > > Regards, > Ampere > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
There is no need to reposition the pivots, and I would like to avoid doing that if possible. http://flightgear.org/Docs/fgfs-model-howto.html Search for the phrase "For the point through which the axis passes, you use the /center/x-m, /center/y-m, and /center/z-m properties to specify a position in meters, using the aircraft's coordinate system. " The section shows how one can specify a point and a vector as an axis for a specific control surface. I will post the information regarding the axis later on. Regards, Ampere On May 11, 2004 02:31 am, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Well Ampere the good news is that FG is quite happy > to animate using the 3DS file. > I just did a quick check using the elevator code out > of the 737 and what was animated moved just the > pivot point was all wrong but the surfaces moved > ok.So what you need to do is work out the pivot > system in 3DS and there should be no problem. > > Cheers > Innis > > _ > Get Extra Storage in 10MB, 25MB, 50MB and 100MB options now! Go to > http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-au&page=hotmail/es2 > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 Good News
On Tuesday 11 May 2004 07:31, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Well Ampere the good news is that FG is quite happy > to animate using the 3DS file. > I just did a quick check using the elevator code out > of the 737 and what was animated moved just the > pivot point was all wrong but the surfaces moved > ok.So what you need to do is work out the pivot > system in 3DS and there should be no problem. > > Cheers > Innis I can confirm that .3DS models can be animated in FG, in fact I mentioned it in this thread just over a week ago. Mind you, the .3DS models I originally did were created in Realsoft3D and then exported in .3DS format, and that might be why I never had any of the displacement/mirroring/pivot problems. The object names I specified in RS3D were preserved when I exported the models in .3DS format and were no trouble to animate once I'd figured out the correct axis. The a-10 models currently in cvs are animated and still in .3DS format - having a look at them might help. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Guys "Ampere K. Hardraade" writes >I went in to attach everything, then detach everything again so now all the object's pivot align at [0,0,-5.96]. It would seem that the code that reads 3ds files takes the position of the objects relative to their pivot instead of the object's true location. Hence you see things like flaps and engines get dislocated. It would also seem that the code doesn't support the "mirror" function. So instead of being able to just flip one side to the other and call it a day, I have attach everything together, and detach everything again. As far as I know with AC3D the objects pivot point is what FG acts on if there is some kind of offset then maybe it won't work. Have you tried animating your own copy Ampere.I will have a look at my copy and see if I can get anything to work. > > > So, the two things I don't know yet are: > 1). Can we animate a 3ds model? I am about to find out > 2). If we need to convert to ac3d format, is there a way to retain the > original names given to each surface or do we need to manually reinsert > them? Probably not.Not only do you lose the names but also the grouping.So I would think you would need to rename and regroup everything.But I could be wrong Cheers Innis _ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> I'm not sure what exactly you changed between your last two mails, but in > both cases the MD11 model looks pretty good now. I went in to attach everything, then detach everything again so now all the object's pivot align at [0,0,-5.96]. It would seem that the code that reads 3ds files takes the position of the objects relative to their pivot instead of the object's true location. Hence you see things like flaps and engines get dislocated. It would also seem that the code doesn't support the "mirror" function. So instead of being able to just flip one side to the other and call it a day, I have attach everything together, and detach everything again. > I take it that you have > not modelled the landing gears yet? No, not yet. > About the control surfaces. I'm not exactly sure what the best approach > will be. I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to aircraft modelling, so I > have to find out a lot by trial and error. > > I know that some of the other aircraft use ac3d models, which contain named > surfaces that can be animated by binding these names to internal > properties. I tried converting your 3ds model to ac3d format. After the > conversion I only saw name "NoName" tags, which probably indicates that the > names of each surface is lost in the conversion, because I did see some > names pop up in your binary 3ds file. > > So, the two things I don't know yet are: > 1). Can we animate a 3ds model? > 2). If we need to convert to ac3d format, is there a way to retain the > original names given to each surface or do we need to manually reinsert > them? I don't know the answer to these questions myself, as I am also a novice when it comes to modding FlightGear. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Ampere, I'm not sure what exactly you changed between your last two mails, but in both cases the MD11 model looks pretty good now. I take it that you have not modelled the landing gears yet? About the control surfaces. I'm not exactly sure what the best approach will be. I'm pretty much a novice when it comes to aircraft modelling, so I have to find out a lot by trial and error. I know that some of the other aircraft use ac3d models, which contain named surfaces that can be animated by binding these names to internal properties. I tried converting your 3ds model to ac3d format. After the conversion I only saw name "NoName" tags, which probably indicates that the names of each surface is lost in the conversion, because I did see some names pop up in your binary 3ds file. So, the two things I don't know yet are: 1). Can we animate a 3ds model? 2). If we need to convert to ac3d format, is there a way to retain the original names given to each surface or do we need to manually reinsert them? Is there somebody on the list who can enlighten us? I tries searching for documentation on the FlightGear web pages and at seedwiki.com, but to no avail. Cheers, Durk On Saturday 08 May 2004 22:13, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > I have re-exported the model again. It should be *bug free* now. > > When do you like to have the axis information for the control surfaces? > > Regards, > Ampere > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
I have re-exported the model again. It should be *bug free* now. When do you like to have the axis information for the control surfaces? Regards, Ampere On May 8, 2004 03:20 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > Yes, looks really nice now. I'll try and see if I can get the view offset > right tonight. > > Cheers, > Durk > > On Saturday 08 May 2004 20:38, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > It really got fixed this time: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > > > Sorry for the inconvinence. > > > > Regards, > > Ampere > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Yes, looks really nice now. I'll try and see if I can get the view offset right tonight. Cheers, Durk On Saturday 08 May 2004 20:38, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > It really got fixed this time: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > Sorry for the inconvinence. > > Regards, > Ampere > ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
It really got fixed this time: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds Sorry for the inconvinence. Regards, Ampere On May 7, 2004 09:13 pm, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Try it now: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > Regards > Ampere > > On May 7, 2004 07:23 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Cool! This is a huge improvement already: > > > > http://members.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model-2.jpg > > > > I'm still seeing a bit of a displacement to the right on some parts. Most > > notably the wing flaps and some parts of the tail engine. > > > > Cheers, > > Durk > > > > On Friday 07 May 2004 23:29, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > > It is fixed: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > > > > > Regards, > > > Ampere > > > > > > On May 7, 2004 01:26 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > > > Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis > > > > and I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) > > > > > > > > Cheers, > > > > Durk > > > > ___ > > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > > > ___ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Frederic Bouvier wrote: [texture dimensions] They can be rectangular but each dimension must be a power of 2. 16x16, 16x32 or even 1x128 are ok. Note that this is part of the opengl spec, and not a particular limitation of plib. Some scene graph libs will silently resize textures to be powers of two, but that's often not what you want if you are trying to control image quality. Curt. -- Curtis Olsonhttp://www.flightgear.org/~curt HumanFIRST Program http://www.humanfirst.umn.edu/ FlightGear Project http://www.flightgear.org Unique text:2f585eeea02e2c79d7b1d8c4963bae2d ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Speaking of textures, what format does FlightGear support? Must the textures > size be on the power of 2 (2x2, 4X4, 16X16, 32X32...) or can it be of random > size? They can be rectangular but each dimension must be a power of 2. 16x16, 16x32 or even 1x128 are ok. -Fred ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Ampere "Ampere K. Hardraade" writes> > > Did you > intend converting it to texture it??. I can apply the textures in 3D Studio. To be honest, I don't have much experience on doing textures. However, I don't think I will have much problems "creating" the textures since the logo for various airlines can be found on Google. =P Probably better with something like Airliners.net. Speaking of textures, what format does FlightGear support? Must the textures size be on the power of 2 (2x2, 4X4, 16X16, 32X32...) or can it be of random size? I used to be power of 2 but I can't remember if plib has been moded to handle other sizes. Thanks in Advance, Ampere Cheers Innis _ Find love today with ninemsn personals. Click here: http://ninemsn.match.com?referrer=hotmailtagline ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> I hope you can texture it from 3DS because when I > converted it to AC3D the file went from 120K to 1.2 meg > and wound not reduce in size.I dont know if this has to do > with any LOD structures you may have created. I think 3DS uses binary to store the data while AC3D uses ascii. That may explain why the file is huge after conversion. > Did you > intend converting it to texture it??. I can apply the textures in 3D Studio. To be honest, I don't have much experience on doing textures. However, I don't think I will have much problems "creating" the textures since the logo for various airlines can be found on Google. =P Speaking of textures, what format does FlightGear support? Must the textures size be on the power of 2 (2x2, 4X4, 16X16, 32X32...) or can it be of random size? Thanks in Advance, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Try it now: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds Regards Ampere On May 7, 2004 07:23 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > Cool! This is a huge improvement already: > > http://members.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model-2.jpg > > I'm still seeing a bit of a displacement to the right on some parts. Most > notably the wing flaps and some parts of the tail engine. > > Cheers, > Durk > > On Friday 07 May 2004 23:29, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > It is fixed: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > > > Regards, > > Ampere > > > > On May 7, 2004 01:26 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > > Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis > > > and I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) > > > > > > Cheers, > > > Durk > > > ___ > > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Guys Yep beat me this time but then I have to sleep.LOL Great model Ampere. I hope you can texture it from 3DS because when I converted it to AC3D the file went from 120K to 1.2 meg and wound not reduce in size.I dont know if this has to do with any LOD structures you may have created.Did you intend converting it to texture it??. Cheers Innis Durk Talsma writes Cool! This is a huge improvement already: http://members.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model-2.jpg I'm still seeing a bit of a displacement to the right on some parts. Most notably the wing flaps and some parts of the tail engine. Cheers, Durk _ Protect your inbox from harmful viruses with new ninemsn Premium. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp?banner=emailtag&referrer=hotmail ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Cool! This is a huge improvement already: http://members.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model-2.jpg I'm still seeing a bit of a displacement to the right on some parts. Most notably the wing flaps and some parts of the tail engine. Cheers, Durk On Friday 07 May 2004 23:29, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > It is fixed: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds > > Regards, > Ampere > > On May 7, 2004 01:26 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis and > > I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) > > > > Cheers, > > Durk > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
It is fixed: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds Regards, Ampere On May 7, 2004 01:26 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis and I > are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) > > Cheers, > Durk > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Fri, 7 May 2004 18:45:56 +0200, Durk wrote in message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > Yeah, isn't it cool how an Aussie and a Dutchman manage to crash crash > this bird on opposite sides of the planet simultaneously, and manage > to scatter the debris around in _exactly_ the same pattern?? :-) ..wave rider midair? ;-) -- ..med vennlig hilsen = with Kind Regards from Arnt... ;-) ...with a number of polar bear hunters in his ancestry... Scenarios always come in sets of three: best case, worst case, and just in case. ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Fri, 7 May 2004 20:03:22 +0200 Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hi Jon, That was me. The problem was that upon initialization the aircraft tumbles over and settles on the runway with a bang. Innis Cunningham discovered that we could solve the problem in part by moving the main gears and CoG forward to 850 units or less. We have a version in cvs now which still shows the problem. I made the original version using aeromatic. Please let me know whether I need to resend you the files. I can't do it today anymore though. Yes, I suppose I can get it from the base package CVS, but it would be easier if you had a moment if you could send me the latest aircraft and engine files (unless the engine has not changed). Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Jon, That was me. The problem was that upon initialization the aircraft tumbles over and settles on the runway with a bang. Innis Cunningham discovered that we could solve the problem in part by moving the main gears and CoG forward to 850 units or less. We have a version in cvs now which still shows the problem. I made the original version using aeromatic. Please let me know whether I need to resend you the files. I can't do it today anymore though. Cheers, Durk On Friday 07 May 2004 19:28, Jon S Berndt wrote: > On Fri, 7 May 2004 19:26:22 +0200 > > Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis > >and I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) > > > >Cheers, > >Durk > > Someone sent me an MD-11 FDM for JSBSim a couple of weeks ago. I > don't have that witrh me at the moment, and I also don't remember who > sent it. Who was that, and where does that stand? Do you still need > some more help? > > Jon > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Fri, 7 May 2004 19:26:22 +0200 Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis and I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) Cheers, Durk Someone sent me an MD-11 FDM for JSBSim a couple of weeks ago. I don't have that witrh me at the moment, and I also don't remember who sent it. Who was that, and where does that stand? Do you still need some more help? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Cool! Drop us a note, when you think you fixed it, and I'm sure Innis and I are eager to compete for the next round of screenshots. :-) Cheers, Durk On Friday 07 May 2004 18:58, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > hmm everything is coming out of left handed... I think I know what > might be the problem. I think I may know a way to fix it. > > Regards, > Ampere > > On May 7, 2004 03:14 am, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > Hi Durk > > I have converted it to AC3D to allow me to move it around. > > It appears that for what ever reason everything is coming > > out left handed,eg the wings horizontal and vertical stab > > are all showing as left hand pieces.My guess is it is something > > Ampere has or has not set at his end.Because I am sure I > > have seen 3DS models in FG before with no problems. > > > > Cheers > > Innis > > > > Durk Talsma writes > > > > >On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > > > Hi Ampere > > > > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > > > > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > > > > think it is anything at my end. > > > > > >Innis, > > > > > >You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) > > > > > >Anyways, here's mine... > > >http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg > > > > > >It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not properly > > >recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. > > > > > >Cheers, > > >Durk > > > > > > > > > > > >___ > > >Flightgear-devel mailing list > > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > >http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > > > _ > > Personalise your mobile chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > > http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp > > > > > > ___ > > Flightgear-devel mailing list > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
hmm everything is coming out of left handed... I think I know what might be the problem. I think I may know a way to fix it. Regards, Ampere On May 7, 2004 03:14 am, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Durk > I have converted it to AC3D to allow me to move it around. > It appears that for what ever reason everything is coming > out left handed,eg the wings horizontal and vertical stab > are all showing as left hand pieces.My guess is it is something > Ampere has or has not set at his end.Because I am sure I > have seen 3DS models in FG before with no problems. > > Cheers > Innis > > Durk Talsma writes > > >On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > > Hi Ampere > > > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > > > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > > > think it is anything at my end. > > > >Innis, > > > >You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) > > > >Anyways, here's mine... > >http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg > > > >It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not properly > >recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. > > > >Cheers, > >Durk > > > > > > > >___ > >Flightgear-devel mailing list > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel > > _ > Personalise your mobile chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Yeah, isn't it cool how an Aussie and a Dutchman manage to crash crash this bird on opposite sides of the planet simultaneously, and manage to scatter the debris around in _exactly_ the same pattern?? :-) Cheers, Durk On Friday 07 May 2004 09:07, Richard Bytheway wrote: > > From: Durk Talsma > > Sent: 07 May 2004 7:20 am > > To: FlightGear developers discussions > > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 > > > > On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > > Hi Ampere > > > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > > > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > > > think it is anything at my end. > > > > Innis, > > > > You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) > > > > Anyways, here's mine... > > http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg > > > > It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not > > properly > > recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. > > > > Cheers, > > Durk > > No, I think you two just crashed it :-) > > Richard > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Chris Horler wrote: Is this the plane where the three hydraulics systems pass adjacent to each other next to the tail engine? It was its predecessor, the DC-10, that had the crash because of that; I'm not sure what changes they made in the MD-11. It is the plane that was involved in the Swissair crash a few years ago, due to an electrical fire. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Innis Cunningham wrote: See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't think it is anything at my end. Plib's 3DS loader tends to mess up the geometry -- I remember that from experiments a year or two ago. I think that our only fully-functioning loaders (including textures) are AC3D and the MSFS one. All the best, David ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Innis Cunningham wrote: Hi Ampere See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't think it is anything at my end. I got exactly the same when importing it in AC3D ... Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> No, I think you two just crashed it :-) pipped at the post... Is this the plane where the three hydraulics systems pass adjacent to each other next to the tail engine? ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Durk I have converted it to AC3D to allow me to move it around. It appears that for what ever reason everything is coming out left handed,eg the wings horizontal and vertical stab are all showing as left hand pieces.My guess is it is something Ampere has or has not set at his end.Because I am sure I have seen 3DS models in FG before with no problems. Cheers Innis Durk Talsma writes On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Ampere > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > think it is anything at my end. > Innis, You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) Anyways, here's mine... http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not properly recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel _ Personalise your mobile chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
RE: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> From: Durk Talsma > Sent: 07 May 2004 7:20 am > To: FlightGear developers discussions > Subject: Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11 > > > On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > > Hi Ampere > > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > > think it is anything at my end. > > > > Innis, > > You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) > > Anyways, here's mine... > http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg > > It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not > properly > recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. > > Cheers, > Durk > No, I think you two just crashed it :-) Richard ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Friday 07 May 2004 07:56, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Ampere > See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. > Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't > think it is anything at my end. > Innis, You just beat me by about 30 seconds posting a screenshot. :-) Anyways, here's mine... http://members.ams.chello.nl/d.talsma/md11-model.jpg It's my impression that some transformation paramters are not properly recognized in FlightGear/plib, or perhaps done in the wrong order. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Ampere See JPG for how the MD11 appeared in FG9.2 and 9.4. Maybe someone on the list has a simple answer.I don't think it is anything at my end. Cheers Innis _ Get Extra Storage in 10MB, 25MB, 50MB and 100MB options now! Go to http://join.msn.com/?pgmarket=en-au&page=hotmail/es2 <>___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> Ampere, > > Looking a the pictures it looks to me like you are still using two sided > polygons (that's why the ailerons and such are a lot brighter than the > rest, you've got the normals inverted). > > To render a model really fast in FlightGear it would be best to use only > one sided polygons (although is rare circumstances I myself do use two > sided polygons, but I always keep it at a minimum). The reason for the contrast between the wing and the control surfaces is that the RGB value for the control surfaces is 255,255,255, while the RGB value for the wings is 100,100,100. I created those control surfaces poly-by-poly, so I am positive that they are not double-sided polygons. > Ouch, I would set a *very* close LOD range to this (30 meters or so) and > then switch to a textures disk .. LOL... =P If the camera is far enough for a lower LOD to be used, I wouldn't use any textures -- the texture can't be seen anyway so there is no point for it. > > Well, so far it looks really nice. > Thank you. I just hope it will get imported into the game without any problem. *Cross my fingers* Regards, Ampere ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
I've uploaded the 3ds file to the server. Here it is: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/MD-11.3ds I am crossing my fingers now. I hope it can be imported into the game without any problem. Regards, Ampere On May 6, 2004 01:56 am, Durk Talsma wrote: > On Thursday 06 May 2004 06:58, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > The cockpit, landing gear wells and the textures will take a while to do; > > plus the fact that this is my first time doing model for FlightGear, it > > will probably be a good idea to put this model in game for now so we can > > sort out any problems that may arise. We can worry about eye candy > > later. > > > > Regards, > > Ampere > > Sounds good, it's quite normal actually for features, be it 3D models or > program code to be added and improved upon incrementally. I'll probably > throw in the 737 2D cockpit, until we have a dedicated MD11 (3D) cockpit. > > Cheers, > Durk > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Erik Hofman said: > Lee Elliott wrote: > > Hello Ampere, > > > > I think the only practical way you could have several different > > liveries/colour schemes would be to include individual models, each one > > textured differently. > > I think there is a way ... > > 1. Create separate Model directories for each livery. > 2. Copy the animation configuration file to each directory. > 3. Use the "full" path to the aircraft geometry file > i.e. "Aircraft/MD-11/Models/md11.ac" > 4. Put different textures in the different Model directories. > > I think this should work. > It should, or if it doesn't, it would probably be just a minor adjustment to the loader in plib. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Ampere, Looking a the pictures it looks to me like you are still using two sided polygons (that's why the ailerons and such are a lot brighter than the rest, you've got the normals inverted). To render a model really fast in FlightGear it would be best to use only one sided polygons (although is rare circumstances I myself do use two sided polygons, but I always keep it at a minimum). Here is an update: Current polycount ~4400: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050601.jpg http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050602.jpg 2 Ailerons, 4 flaps, and 5 spoilers: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050603.jpg 40 blades for each fan: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050604.jpg Ouch, I would set a *very* close LOD range to this (30 meters or so) and then switch to a textures disk .. The exterior is basically done. All there left to do are the winglets, then I will upload it to my server. You can probably get it by tomorrow night. The cockpit, landing gear wells and the textures will take a while to do; plus the fact that this is my first time doing model for FlightGear, it will probably be a good idea to put this model in game for now so we can sort out any problems that may arise. We can worry about eye candy later. Well, so far it looks really nice. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Lee Elliott wrote: Hello Ampere, I think the only practical way you could have several different liveries/colour schemes would be to include individual models, each one textured differently. I think there is a way ... 1. Create separate Model directories for each livery. 2. Copy the animation configuration file to each directory. 3. Use the "full" path to the aircraft geometry file i.e. "Aircraft/MD-11/Models/md11.ac" 4. Put different textures in the different Model directories. I think this should work. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Thursday 06 May 2004 04:43, Jim Wilson wrote: > "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > > For the textures, I was wondering whether it will be possible to have a > > set of textures for every airline. For example, if the player wants to > > fly KLM, the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-KLM; if the player > > wants to fly Swiss, then the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-Swiss. > > Can this be done? > > It could, but not easily or at least not easily enough that someone has > exceeded the "interested enough to code it" threshold. It won't be on my > list. > As far as I can tell, the only possible way to do this right now would be to duplicate the entire set of .xml aircraft configuration files. It's probably not as much work as it seems, because the only parts that need to be changed are the texture files, and the references to the texture files. Currently the "interested enough to code it" level probably isn't high enough (including for myself), but I can see a need for multiple livery support coming in the forseeable future. David Luff, David Culp, Erik Hofman, and me have been discussing some issues related to AI traffic offlist. Yesterday I managed to impliment a first rough prototype top level flightplan manager, which listst the current status of any aircraft listed in the database, as either enroute between and , or parked at airport . I'm using data from projectai (http://www.projectai.com) to test the algorithms, but we could also throw in our own data. I'm still a long way away from a fully implimented AI manager, but it was quite satsisfying to see that I got this part already working within a day of coding. I'll try and write some more about AI traffic, in a dedicated thread, Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Thursday 06 May 2004 06:58, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > The cockpit, landing gear wells and the textures will take a while to do; > plus the fact that this is my first time doing model for FlightGear, it > will probably be a good idea to put this model in game for now so we can > sort out any problems that may arise. We can worry about eye candy later. > > Regards, > Ampere > Sounds good, it's quite normal actually for features, be it 3D models or program code to be added and improved upon incrementally. I'll probably throw in the 737 2D cockpit, until we have a dedicated MD11 (3D) cockpit. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Here is an update: Current polycount ~4400: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050601.jpg http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050602.jpg 2 Ailerons, 4 flaps, and 5 spoilers: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050603.jpg 40 blades for each fan: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050604.jpg The exterior is basically done. All there left to do are the winglets, then I will upload it to my server. You can probably get it by tomorrow night. The cockpit, landing gear wells and the textures will take a while to do; plus the fact that this is my first time doing model for FlightGear, it will probably be a good idea to put this model in game for now so we can sort out any problems that may arise. We can worry about eye candy later. Regards, Ampere > On May 5, 2004 08:05 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > Yes, I second that. Looks really nice!. Do you already have a > > texture/livery in mind? If not, what about KLM for this one? After all, > > they're one of the major passenger MD-11 operators. :-) > > > > So, is it possible to animate 3DS models from within flightgear, or do we > > need to convert the model to AC3D for that? > > > > B.t.w., Ampere, feel free to sent me a copy of the model when you think > > you have something ready, than I'll try and integrate the model with the > > MD11 FDM configuration files. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
"Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > For the textures, I was wondering whether it will be possible to have a set of > textures for every airline. For example, if the player wants to fly KLM, the > command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-KLM; if the player wants to fly Swiss, > then the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-Swiss. Can this be done? It could, but not easily or at least not easily enough that someone has exceeded the "interested enough to code it" threshold. It won't be on my list. > I also have some questions regarding how FlightGear handles models. > 1. How should the model be positioned in the 3D program: should the center of > gravity locate at [0,0,0], or should the very left side of the aircraft be > [0,y,z], the bow be [x,0,z], and the landing gear rest of [x,y,0]? Probably you'll want to position the 3D model at an identifiable nose location at 0,0,0 with most aircraft. The FDM configs can be built around that assumption. > 2. Currently, I am using 1 unit = 10 centimeters as the scale in the 3D > program that I am using. What should the actual value be? 1 unit = 1 meter? Yes. > 3. How does the LOD system in FlightGear works? Is it capable of assigning > different parts of the aircraft with different LOD? Meaning, can the LOD of > the engines change while that of the fuselage remains the same? Use "range" animation type. See the 3D Aircraft Model Mini-HOWTO document at: http://cvs.flightgear.org/cgi-bin/viewcvs/viewcvs.cgi/*checkout*/docs/Model/fgfs-model-howto.html?rev=1.8&cvsroot=FlightGear-0.9 > 4. Must the under carriages be included or does FlightGear allow parts > sharing between models? You can combine model files and animate them seperately or as a group. See the p51-d, pa28-161, j3cub, 747 3D instrument models as examples. > 5. Must there be textures? If I want to leave some parts blank, will that > create any problem? Not at all. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hello Ampere, I think the only practical way you could have several different liveries/colour schemes would be to include individual models, each one textured differently. If FlightGear had a 'pre-hook' whereby some code could be run before FG started, then that could be used to copy the specific textures you wanted over the 'default' texture for the model. But it doesn't, afaik, so you can't. 1. The FG 'standard' is to locate the tip of the nose, excluding any probes, at the 0,0,0 origin. This will mean that you will have to offset some of the camera views so they aim at the approx cg location for the apparent motion to look right. 2. 1 unit = 1 metre is probably the best thing to do, and works with .AC format models. However, the first few models I did were in untextured .3DS format and iirc, I had to scale them down by 100x and rotate the model by 90 deg about the length axis - i.e. the side view became a top view. 3. Can't help you here - not tried using it yet. 4. If another model had the U/C as a separate file, rather like the 3d instruments, you probably could share parts. I'm assuming you're thinking about this to reduce the overhead of having to include an individual model for each colour scheme, as opposed to using the U/C from a completely different a/c. Actually, this approach could work quite well, especially if there isn't a lot of art work on the wings - you could break the wings down too and call them in for each different colour scheme, so you would just need different fuselages and marked wing sections for each model. 5. You don't need to use textures - depending on the model format, you should be able to colour specific polygons. You get better anti-aliasing with textures though. I can't help you with any MD-11 details - you'll have to research that yourself. If they're in use somewhere near, go and watch them. If not, you'll have to look at lots of photos and videos (from the web), and figure it out yourself. LeeE On Thursday 06 May 2004 02:32, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > For the textures, I was wondering whether it will be possible to have a set > of textures for every airline. For example, if the player wants to fly > KLM, the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-KLM; if the player wants to > fly Swiss, then the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-Swiss. Can this > be done? > > I also have some questions regarding how FlightGear handles models. > 1. How should the model be positioned in the 3D program: should the center > of gravity locate at [0,0,0], or should the very left side of the aircraft > be [0,y,z], the bow be [x,0,z], and the landing gear rest of [x,y,0]? 2. > Currently, I am using 1 unit = 10 centimeters as the scale in the 3D > program that I am using. What should the actual value be? 1 unit = 1 > meter? 3. How does the LOD system in FlightGear works? Is it capable of > assigning different parts of the aircraft with different LOD? Meaning, can > the LOD of the engines change while that of the fuselage remains the same? > 4. Must the under carriages be included or does FlightGear allow parts > sharing between models? > 5. Must there be textures? If I want to leave some parts blank, will that > create any problem? > > I also have some questions regarding the MD-11 itself: > 1. What is the size of the cockpit? > 2. What are the sizes of the undercarriage doors? > 3. In what way do the under carriages extend and retract? > > Thanks in advance, > Ampere > > On May 5, 2004 08:05 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > > On Saturday 01 May 2004 07:09, Jim Wilson wrote: > > > "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > > > > Hi, > > > > > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this > > > > week. Here is what I have so far: > > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg > > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg > > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg > > > > > > > > Does FlightGear support 3DS format? > > > > > > Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS > > > format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring > > > animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use > > > the converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create > > > ac3d files from the 3DS. > > > > Yes, I second that. Looks really nice!. Do you already have a > > texture/livery in mind? If not, what about KLM for this one? After all, > > they're one of the major passenger MD-11 operators. :-) > > > > So, is it possible to animate 3DS models from within flightgear, or do we > > need to convert the model to AC3D for that? > > > > B.t.w., Ampere, feel free to sent me a copy of the model when you think > > you have something ready, than I'll try and integrate the model with the > > MD11 FDM configuration files. > > > > > > Cheers, > > Durk > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL P
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
For the textures, I was wondering whether it will be possible to have a set of textures for every airline. For example, if the player wants to fly KLM, the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-KLM; if the player wants to fly Swiss, then the command line can be --aircraft=MD-11-Swiss. Can this be done? I also have some questions regarding how FlightGear handles models. 1. How should the model be positioned in the 3D program: should the center of gravity locate at [0,0,0], or should the very left side of the aircraft be [0,y,z], the bow be [x,0,z], and the landing gear rest of [x,y,0]? 2. Currently, I am using 1 unit = 10 centimeters as the scale in the 3D program that I am using. What should the actual value be? 1 unit = 1 meter? 3. How does the LOD system in FlightGear works? Is it capable of assigning different parts of the aircraft with different LOD? Meaning, can the LOD of the engines change while that of the fuselage remains the same? 4. Must the under carriages be included or does FlightGear allow parts sharing between models? 5. Must there be textures? If I want to leave some parts blank, will that create any problem? I also have some questions regarding the MD-11 itself: 1. What is the size of the cockpit? 2. What are the sizes of the undercarriage doors? 3. In what way do the under carriages extend and retract? Thanks in advance, Ampere On May 5, 2004 08:05 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > On Saturday 01 May 2004 07:09, Jim Wilson wrote: > > "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > > > Hi, > > > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this > > > week. Here is what I have so far: > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg > > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg > > > > > > Does FlightGear support 3DS format? > > > > Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS > > format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring > > animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use the > > converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create ac3d > > files from the 3DS. > > Yes, I second that. Looks really nice!. Do you already have a > texture/livery in mind? If not, what about KLM for this one? After all, > they're one of the major passenger MD-11 operators. :-) > > So, is it possible to animate 3DS models from within flightgear, or do we > need to convert the model to AC3D for that? > > B.t.w., Ampere, feel free to sent me a copy of the model when you think you > have something ready, than I'll try and integrate the model with the MD11 > FDM configuration files. > > > Cheers, > Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Saturday 01 May 2004 07:09, Jim Wilson wrote: > "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > > Hi, > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this week. > > Here is what I have so far: > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg > > > > Does FlightGear support 3DS format? > > Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS > format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring > animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use the > converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create ac3d > files from the 3DS. > Yes, I second that. Looks really nice!. Do you already have a texture/livery in mind? If not, what about KLM for this one? After all, they're one of the major passenger MD-11 operators. :-) So, is it possible to animate 3DS models from within flightgear, or do we need to convert the model to AC3D for that? B.t.w., Ampere, feel free to sent me a copy of the model when you think you have something ready, than I'll try and integrate the model with the MD11 FDM configuration files. Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Saturday 01 May 2004 06:09, Jim Wilson wrote: > "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > > Hi, > > > > Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this week. > > Here is what I have so far: > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg > > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg > > > > Does FlightGear support 3DS format? > > Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS > format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring > animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use the > converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create ac3d > files from the 3DS. > > Best, > > Jim I never hit any problems with animating .3ds models but I couldn't find a way to texture them. However, I wasn't using 3D Studio or Max to make them and I could only export the geometry so it's possible that textured .3ds models made using 3D Studio or Max will be fine. IIRC, plib does not have full support for all the formats it handles but I don't know what the specific limitations are - perhaps there may be something in the plib docs that clarify this. LeeE ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Jim Wilson wrote: "Ampere K. Hardraade" said: Does FlightGear support 3DS format? Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use the converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create ac3d files from the 3DS. Actually it moved to /utils/Modeller/threedconvert (don't ask ...) Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
"Ampere K. Hardraade" said: > Hi, > > Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this week. > Here is what I have so far: > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg > http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg > > Does FlightGear support 3DS format? Nice looking model! It does, because plib includes support for the 3DS format. I'm not sure what limitations there are as far as configuring animation is concerned. If there are issues there you can always use the converter included with FlightGear (see /util/3dconvert) to create ac3d files from the 3DS. Best, Jim ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi, Sorry for the late reply. I've just finished my exams earlier this week. Here is what I have so far: http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050100.jpg http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050101.jpg http://www.cs.yorku.ca/~cs233144/2004050102.jpg Does FlightGear support 3DS format? Regards, Ampere On April 26, 2004 02:51 pm, Durk Talsma wrote: > On Sunday 25 April 2004 18:46, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > > Hi, > > > > If you guys want a MD-11 specifically for FlightGear, I think I may be > > able to make one. I have 3D Max Studio but I'm not sure whether > > FlightGear supports 3DS files. > > > > Regards, > > Ampere > > Oh yes! A nice MD-11 3D model would be absolutely welcome. Let me (us) know > if you have any questions. > > Thanks, > Durk > > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Sunday 25 April 2004 18:46, Ampere K. Hardraade wrote: > Hi, > > If you guys want a MD-11 specifically for FlightGear, I think I may be able > to make one. I have 3D Max Studio but I'm not sure whether FlightGear > supports 3DS files. > > Regards, > Ampere > Oh yes! A nice MD-11 3D model would be absolutely welcome. Let me (us) know if you have any questions. Thanks, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Innis, I just sent my MD11 files to Erik, so hopefully they show up in CVS one of these days. I haven't done any _systematic_ testing yet, so I can't confirm whether or not the 850 units value is the absolute cut-off or not, but moving both CoG and Main gear forward to less than 850 unit solved the initialization problem for me. :-) Now, does moving the CoG forward impact anything at all? I can imagine that it doesn't when we move everthing else forward too, by the same number of units, but I'm still unfamiliar enough to be completely wrong here. Moving just the CoG and the main gears didn't really seem to impact the feel of the flight model though. Just out of curiousity: Did you also use aeromatic to generate your MD-11 config file, or did you build it manually. I saw similar, but slightly different values in your config file, compared to the ones I got from aeromatic. Speaking of a 3D model, yeah, it would be cool to stitch in a FS98 model until we have a decent native GPL'ed model. I've never done this though, so some useful tips would be more than welcome. :-) Cheers, Durk On Sunday 25 April 2004 13:05, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Durk > I don't know if you have actually got the A/C to sit on the ground > correctly yet.But I have got both the 747 and MD11 to sit correctly > by making sure the CG figure is no further back than 850 X units and the > MLG figures also no further back than 850 X units any further back and the > model does not sit correctly. > See below for extracts from both my config files > > I don't know if you are interested but I grabed a MD11 from > FS 98 from Simviation just so at least the model looked like a > MD11. > If you are not familiar with using FS98 models give me a yell. > > > > > Durk Talsma writes > > >On Saturday 24 April 2004 14:50, Erik Hofman wrote: > > > Innis Cunningham wrote: > > > > Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the > > > >A/C > > > > > > seems to start. > > > > > > This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the > > > structural frame or in the body frame? > > > >It actually reminds me that during one of my tweaks I noticed that I found > >the > >aircraft to flip-over sideways, while I was only moving either gears or > > CoG forward or backward. I didn't give it much thougth then, and > > therefore don't > >remember the exact parameters that made this happen. But, would it be > >possible than that specifically in the JSB trimming routine somehow. > > > >I feel it's still a bit premature, but if anybody wants to play with the > >MD11 > >files, I could offer them for cvs inclusion. Who should I send them to? > >Curt? > >Erik? > > > >Cheers, > >Durk > > Cheers > Innis > > _ > Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi, If you guys want a MD-11 specifically for FlightGear, I think I may be able to make one. I have 3D Max Studio but I'm not sure whether FlightGear supports 3DS files. Regards, Ampere On April 25, 2004 07:05 am, Innis Cunningham wrote: > Hi Durk > I don't know if you have actually got the A/C to sit on the ground > correctly yet.But I have got both the 747 and MD11 to sit correctly > by making sure the CG figure is no further back than 850 X units and the > MLG figures also no further back than 850 X units any further back and the > model does not sit correctly. > See below for extracts from both my config files > > 747 > AC_EMPTYWT 398500 >AC_CGLOC 850.3 0.0 -69.6 >AC_AERORP850.3 0.0 30.0 >AC_EYEPTLOC 194.8 -32.0 100.0 >AC_VRP 850.3 0 -50 > > > AC_GEAR NOSE_LG 361.7 0.0 -180.9 262546.0 87515.3 0.5 0.8 0.02 > STEERABLE NONE 5.0 RETRACT > AC_GEAR LEFT_MLG 870.5 -228.3 -180.9 875153.5 175030.7 0.5 0.8 0.02 > FIXED LEFT 0 RETRACT > AC_GEAR RIGHT_MLG 870.5 228.3 -180.9 875153.5 175030.7 0.5 0.8 0.02 > FIXED RIGHT 0 RETRACT > > > MD11 > AC_EMPTYWT 378363 >AC_CGLOC 800.5 0.0 -60.2 >AC_AERORP800.5 0.0 0.0 >AC_EYEPTLOC 168.7 -30.0 75.0 >AC_VRP 0 0 0 > > > AC_GEAR NOSE_LG 313.3 0.0 -170.2 189181.7 63060.6 0.5 0.8 0.02 > STEERABLE NONE 5.0 RETRACT > AC_GEAR LEFT_MLG 850.5 -183.1 -170.2 630605.7 126121.1 0.5 0.8 0.02 > FIXED LEFT 0 RETRACT > AC_GEAR RIGHT_MLG 850.5 183.1 -170.2 630605.7 126121.1 0.5 0.8 0.02 > FIXED RIGHT 0 RETRACT > > Why this happens I don't know I will send an email to David Culp and > see if he has any ideas. > I don't know if you are interested but I grabed a MD11 from > FS 98 from Simviation just so at least the model looked like a > MD11. > If you are not familiar with using FS98 models give me a yell. > > > > > Durk Talsma writes > > >On Saturday 24 April 2004 14:50, Erik Hofman wrote: > > > Innis Cunningham wrote: > > > > Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the > > > >A/C > > > > > > seems to start. > > > > > > This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the > > > structural frame or in the body frame? > > > >It actually reminds me that during one of my tweaks I noticed that I found > >the > >aircraft to flip-over sideways, while I was only moving either gears or > > CoG forward or backward. I didn't give it much thougth then, and > > therefore don't > >remember the exact parameters that made this happen. But, would it be > >possible than that specifically in the JSB trimming routine somehow. > > > >I feel it's still a bit premature, but if anybody wants to play with the > >MD11 > >files, I could offer them for cvs inclusion. Who should I send them to? > >Curt? > >Erik? > > > >Cheers, > >Durk > > Cheers > Innis > > _ > Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to > http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp > > > ___ > Flightgear-devel mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Durk I don't know if you have actually got the A/C to sit on the ground correctly yet.But I have got both the 747 and MD11 to sit correctly by making sure the CG figure is no further back than 850 X units and the MLG figures also no further back than 850 X units any further back and the model does not sit correctly. See below for extracts from both my config files 747 AC_EMPTYWT 398500 AC_CGLOC 850.3 0.0 -69.6 AC_AERORP850.3 0.0 30.0 AC_EYEPTLOC 194.8 -32.0 100.0 AC_VRP 850.3 0 -50 AC_GEAR NOSE_LG 361.7 0.0 -180.9 262546.0 87515.3 0.5 0.8 0.02 STEERABLE NONE 5.0 RETRACT AC_GEAR LEFT_MLG 870.5 -228.3 -180.9 875153.5 175030.7 0.5 0.8 0.02 FIXED LEFT 0 RETRACT AC_GEAR RIGHT_MLG 870.5 228.3 -180.9 875153.5 175030.7 0.5 0.8 0.02 FIXED RIGHT 0 RETRACT MD11 AC_EMPTYWT 378363 AC_CGLOC 800.5 0.0 -60.2 AC_AERORP800.5 0.0 0.0 AC_EYEPTLOC 168.7 -30.0 75.0 AC_VRP 0 0 0 AC_GEAR NOSE_LG 313.3 0.0 -170.2 189181.7 63060.6 0.5 0.8 0.02 STEERABLE NONE 5.0 RETRACT AC_GEAR LEFT_MLG 850.5 -183.1 -170.2 630605.7 126121.1 0.5 0.8 0.02 FIXED LEFT 0 RETRACT AC_GEAR RIGHT_MLG 850.5 183.1 -170.2 630605.7 126121.1 0.5 0.8 0.02 FIXED RIGHT 0 RETRACT Why this happens I don't know I will send an email to David Culp and see if he has any ideas. I don't know if you are interested but I grabed a MD11 from FS 98 from Simviation just so at least the model looked like a MD11. If you are not familiar with using FS98 models give me a yell. Durk Talsma writes On Saturday 24 April 2004 14:50, Erik Hofman wrote: > Innis Cunningham wrote: > > Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the A/C > > seems to start. > > This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the > structural frame or in the body frame? > It actually reminds me that during one of my tweaks I noticed that I found the aircraft to flip-over sideways, while I was only moving either gears or CoG forward or backward. I didn't give it much thougth then, and therefore don't remember the exact parameters that made this happen. But, would it be possible than that specifically in the JSB trimming routine somehow. I feel it's still a bit premature, but if anybody wants to play with the MD11 files, I could offer them for cvs inclusion. Who should I send them to? Curt? Erik? Cheers, Durk Cheers Innis _ Personalise your phone with chart ringtones and polyphonics. Go to http://ringtones.com.au/ninemsn/control?page=/ninemsn/main.jsp ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Durk Talsma wrote: I feel it's still a bit premature, but if anybody wants to play with the MD11 files, I could offer them for cvs inclusion. Who should I send them to? Curt? Erik? I think Curtis is buried under audio bits. You can sent it to me. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Saturday 24 April 2004 14:50, Erik Hofman wrote: > Innis Cunningham wrote: > > Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the A/C > > seems to start. > > This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the > structural frame or in the body frame? > It actually reminds me that during one of my tweaks I noticed that I found the aircraft to flip-over sideways, while I was only moving either gears or CoG forward or backward. I didn't give it much thougth then, and therefore don't remember the exact parameters that made this happen. But, would it be possible than that specifically in the JSB trimming routine somehow. I feel it's still a bit premature, but if anybody wants to play with the MD11 files, I could offer them for cvs inclusion. Who should I send them to? Curt? Erik? Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Erik Erik Hofman writes Innis Cunningham wrote: Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the A/C seems to start. This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the structural frame or in the body frame? I am not sure what you mean.The gear is placed were Aeromatic thinks it should go based on the size of the A/C and that it is a tricycle undercarrage. But after more testing tonight I find if you keep the CG and MLG items in jbsim below 850 X units the A/C inializes normally. Move either of the items past 870 X units and the A/C won't inialize correctly. Why ?. I don't know. The only thing now is the 747 seems to fly 8-10deg right wing low I guess with all the hacking I have done something is not in the right spot. Erik Cheers Innis _ SEEK: Now with over 50,000 dream jobs! Click here: http://ninemsn.seek.com.au?hotmail ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Innis Cunningham wrote: Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the A/C seems to start. This almost sounds like and axis mismatch. Is the gear located in the structural frame or in the body frame? Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Hi Guys I had a play with this last night by using the 737 FDM on the 747 and hacking it around to see what would happen and everything worked ok till the CofG got over 850 X units(what do the units represent inches feet ??), or the MLG was moved back past 850 X units.I also noticed if the CofG was moved anymore than 10 units further back than the MLG position I got a page fault on windows 98 and the program crashed. Some of the other things that happened was by moving the CofG forward of the MLG position by a large amount the A/C would start on its back under the runway. Also the further back you put the CofG the higher off the ground the A/C seems to start. I dont know if any of this helps or makes sense but there it is. I will email David Culp about Aeromatic and see if I can understand it more Cheers Innis Durk Talsma writes> > Can you email me your config file and engine file? I can try running > it in the standalone JSBSim and make some quick plots and see what I > can see. > > Are you initializing on the runway? At altitude? > I'm initializing on the runway. Below sea level actually, but that shouldn't make a difference, because the other JSBsim aircraft (the ones I've tested) initialize just fine on the same runway. I'll send you the config files (both original aeromatic output and tweaked versions) by private email in a few moments. Thanks, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel _ Protect your inbox from harmful viruses with new ninemsn Premium. Go to http://ninemsn.com.au/premium/landing.asp?banner=emailtag&referrer=hotmail ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> Can you email me your config file and engine file? I can try running > it in the standalone JSBSim and make some quick plots and see what I > can see. > > Are you initializing on the runway? At altitude? > I'm initializing on the runway. Below sea level actually, but that shouldn't make a difference, because the other JSBsim aircraft (the ones I've tested) initialize just fine on the same runway. I'll send you the config files (both original aeromatic output and tweaked versions) by private email in a few moments. Thanks, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 19:03:15 +0200 Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmm, I just played a bit with the main gears' position, moving them backward by just a bit, and right now, I have the situation where upon initialization, the aircraft tumbles over once and than settles with a bang on the runway. Do you have any recommentations about what strategy to follow? Can you email me your config file and engine file? I can try running it in the standalone JSBSim and make some quick plots and see what I can see. Are you initializing on the runway? At altitude? Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Friday 23 April 2004 04:47, David Culp wrote: > > When a JSBSim airplane begins in a bizarre position, or is tumbling, that > means that it failed the ground trimming routine. I've found that > aeromatic has a hard time generating large airplanes that will trim > properly. I've only been able to fix it by going over the config file and > tweaking the values for MOI's, CG, AC, gear, and engines until I get > something that will trim. Very time consuming. > > It's going to take a long time to figure out where aeromatic is failing, as > the values look plausible. > Hmm, I just played a bit with the main gears' position, moving them backward by just a bit, and right now, I have the situation where upon initialization, the aircraft tumbles over once and than settles with a bang on the runway. Do you have any recommentations about what strategy to follow? Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
Durk Talsma wrote: On Thursday 22 April 2004 21:34, Jon S Berndt wrote: On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:49:25 +0200 Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, that's right. It happened in that order :-) When I first tried loading the MD11, it appeared to initialize a few hundred feet above the ground, and Hmm. I think this would be the first thing to address. I don't know why the aircraft would start up above the ground like that ... Yeah, that's what I thought as well. my guess is that this is somehow related to the initial trimming procedure. I think you're right. I noticed that just after start (or reset) the AOA is quite high (probably 90 degrees) until you start to move. I noticed this after adding the propeller sound due to angle of attack. Erik ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
> > >When I first tried > > >loading the MD11, it appeared to initialize a few hundred feet above the > > >ground, and When a JSBSim airplane begins in a bizarre position, or is tumbling, that means that it failed the ground trimming routine. I've found that aeromatic has a hard time generating large airplanes that will trim properly. I've only been able to fix it by going over the config file and tweaking the values for MOI's, CG, AC, gear, and engines until I get something that will trim. Very time consuming. It's going to take a long time to figure out where aeromatic is failing, as the values look plausible. Dave -- David Culp davidculp2[at]comcast.net ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Thursday 22 April 2004 21:34, Jon S Berndt wrote: > On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:49:25 +0200 > > Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >Well, that's right. It happened in that order :-) When I first tried > >loading the MD11, it appeared to initialize a few hundred feet above the > >ground, and > > Hmm. I think this would be the first thing to address. I don't know > why the aircraft would start up above the ground like that ... > Yeah, that's what I thought as well. my guess is that this is somehow related to the initial trimming procedure. I've attached the output from flightgear. If you're interested, I can send you the output from aeromatic, and my aircraft-set.xml file. -- This aircraft model is an ALPHA release!!! This aircraft model may not even properly load, and probably will not fly as expected. Use this model for development purposes ONLY!!! Trim Results: Altitude AGL: 15.00 wdot: -2.28e+01 Tolerance: 1e-03 Pitch Angle: -1.55 qdot: -5.92e+00 Tolerance: 1e-04 Trim Statistics: Total Iterations: 61 Sub-iterations: wdot: 0 average: 0.00 successful: 0 stability: 2.00 qdot: 0 average: 0.00 successful: 0 stability: 2.00 Run Count: 736 [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~> - Cheers, Durk ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
Re: [Flightgear-devel] MD-11
On Thu, 22 Apr 2004 20:49:25 +0200 Durk Talsma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Well, that's right. It happened in that order :-) When I first tried loading the MD11, it appeared to initialize a few hundred feet above the ground, and Hmm. I think this would be the first thing to address. I don't know why the aircraft would start up above the ground like that ... Jon ___ Flightgear-devel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.flightgear.org/mailman/listinfo/flightgear-devel
