Re: How read Cyl 0 from within a program?

[Lindy Mayfield]

I have assembly source code for 3card loader.  Would that help?  

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Charles Mills
Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2024 8:20 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: How read Cyl 0 from within a program?

EXTERNAL

I am interested in writing a program to read the IPL records from a DASD 
volume. (Read only, not update). I am comfortable with XDAP but how do I OPEN a 
"dataset" that would include cylinder 0?

APF, OPERATIONS and so forth are not out of the question.

Thanks,
Charles

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Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

[Lindy Mayfield]

I found the old post!  I think it has most what I need.  I didn't find it 
before, but now I did, I should have looked harder, mea culpa. 

/lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Massimo Biancucci
Sent: torstai 26. syyskuuta 2019 18.05
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

EXTERNAL

Hi,

I think you gave the main answer 

TIME=1440 (or NOLIMIT) on JCL.

AFAIK, there're monitor product (like BMC SYSPROG Services for instance) that 
can update the value on the fly.

Regards.
Max

Il giorno mar 17 set 2019 alle ore 15:09 Lindy Mayfield < 
lindy.mayfi...@sas.com> ha scritto:

> Hi,
>
> I understand that address spaces can be made exempt from 522 timeouts 
> if there is a particular value in one of three control blocks.  If I 
> have it correct they are:
>
> 1) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Comes from TIME=1440 on Job card?)
> 2) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set
> 3) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880'
>
> What can I learn from one or more of those values being set?  For 
> example, which z/OS or application components update those control 
> blocks or cause them to be updated?
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight!
>
> Kind regards,
> Lindy
>
> P.S.  I think I asked some years ago where they magic number x'0D286880'
> comes from.  I forgot. I think it was historical, and maybe counted in 
> timerons or something similar.
>
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Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

[Lindy Mayfield]

Not funny. ☹

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Steve Beaver
Sent: torstai 26. syyskuuta 2019 18.05
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

EXTERNAL

Talk to your MVS people

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lindy Mayfield
Sent: Thursday, September 26, 2019 9:54 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

It could have been hardware related based on clock speed on early machines.

Perhaps it's more appropriate ask this on the RACF group.

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: tiistai 17. syyskuuta 2019 18.35
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

EXTERNAL

Well, if that represents 24 hours then 2555 is 1 second.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 8:09 AM Lindy Mayfield  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I understand that address spaces can be made exempt from 522 timeouts if 
> there is a particular value in one of three control blocks.  If I have it 
> correct they are:
>
> 1) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Comes from TIME=1440 on Job card?)
> 2) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set
> 3) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880'
>
> What can I learn from one or more of those values being set?  For example, 
> which z/OS or application components update those control blocks or cause 
> them to be updated?
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight!
>
> Kind regards,
> Lindy
>
> P.S.  I think I asked some years ago where they magic number x'0D286880' 
> comes from.  I forgot. I think it was historical, and maybe counted in 
> timerons or something similar.
>
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

[Lindy Mayfield]

It could have been hardware related based on clock speed on early machines.

Perhaps it's more appropriate ask this on the RACF group.

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Mike Schwab
Sent: tiistai 17. syyskuuta 2019 18.35
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

EXTERNAL

Well, if that represents 24 hours then 2555 is 1 second.

On Tue, Sep 17, 2019 at 8:09 AM Lindy Mayfield  wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
> I understand that address spaces can be made exempt from 522 timeouts if 
> there is a particular value in one of three control blocks.  If I have it 
> correct they are:
>
> 1) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Comes from TIME=1440 on Job card?)
> 2) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set
> 3) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880'
>
> What can I learn from one or more of those values being set?  For example, 
> which z/OS or application components update those control blocks or cause 
> them to be updated?
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight!
>
> Kind regards,
> Lindy
>
> P.S.  I think I asked some years ago where they magic number x'0D286880' 
> comes from.  I forgot. I think it was historical, and maybe counted in 
> timerons or something similar.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send 
> email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN



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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Control block values that exempt 522 Timeouts

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi,

I understand that address spaces can be made exempt from 522 timeouts if there 
is a particular value in one of three control blocks.  If I have it correct 
they are:

1) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Comes from TIME=1440 on Job card?)
2) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set
3) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880' 

What can I learn from one or more of those values being set?  For example, 
which z/OS or application components update those control blocks or cause them 
to be updated?

Thanks in advance for any insight!   

Kind regards,
Lindy

P.S.  I think I asked some years ago where they magic number x'0D286880' comes 
from.  I forgot. I think it was historical, and maybe counted in timerons or 
something similar.

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Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

[Lindy Mayfield]

I do.   I (me I mean) totally do.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Charles Mills
Sent: keskiviikko 28. kesäkuuta 2017 23.42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

EXTERNAL

Does he know about the First Unitarian Church of Kennebunk, Me? There's a story 
that the Ladies Auxiliary was unable to purchase monogramed aprons. (Actually 
existed, now renamed the Unitarian Universalist Church.)

Is it Friday yet?

Charles


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Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

[Lindy Mayfield]

Spot on Peter.  But we have to admit, one of the challenges that makes working 
with z/OS that makes it fun is to figure out how things are setup.  It's 
basically legal hacking, and I quite don't like it.  I mean, when I pretend I 
am Sherlock Holmes, I like it, but I don't get that privilege very often.  So 
mostly I don't.  

/lindy/

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Farley, Peter x23353
Sent: keskiviikko 28. kesäkuuta 2017 22.36
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

EXTERNAL

All well and good when the shop standard does not mandate TSO userid as job 
name for *all* non-privileged users, no exceptions allowed.

Some of us do not get to make the rules ourselves, or even have any input on 
what the rules are.

Peter
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Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

[Lindy Mayfield]

Thank you, Elardus.

I accidentally copied a job card from a working member that was missing the 
word JOB after the job name.  That was the problem.

And you cleared up my other questions as well.  Thanks again!

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: keskiviikko 28. kesäkuuta 2017 13.54
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

EXTERNAL

suresh chacko wrote:

>Edit the job in 3.4 and the PROFILE. If PACK is ON, set it OFF with PACK OFF 
>command and resubmit the job and see it resolves the issue.

PACK Status to do with jobname length? I must be missing something...




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Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

[Lindy Mayfield]

Thanks, Suresh.

Turned out that my "foreign" job card was missing the word JOB.  :)  doh.  

Anyway, I had a funny feeling it could be syntax related, which is why I asked 
this as a generic question.

In some shops the job name must be the 7 character TSO user id plus one 
character, and if the job is submitted with only the TSO user id then that 
prompt happens and when a letter is entered the job runs.

Is it the IEFUTL where that is configured?

Kind regards,
Lindy


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of suresh chacko
Sent: keskiviikko 28. kesäkuuta 2017 12.52
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

EXTERNAL

Dear Lindy

Edit the job in 3.4 and the PROFILE. If PACK is ON, set it OFF with PACK OFF 
command and resubmit the job and see it resolves the issue.

Thanks, Suresh Chacko



On Wed, Jun 28, 2017 at 10:28 AM, Lindy Mayfield <lindy.mayfi...@sas.com>
wrote:

> Hello.
>
> Can someone tell me what triggers this message/prompt?
>
> IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -
>
> One source I know of is when I try to submit something that isn't JCL.
> But it also happens in weird ways (on different machines) for 'normal' JCL.
>
> For example, I have a job card that looks similar to this:
>
> //Y123A JOB TPX,'RUN JOB',
> // CLASS=T,MSGCLASS=U,NOTIFY=
>
> Doesn't matter what I put in there for job name, even filling it out 
> to 8 characters, I still get prompted.  And something that I've never 
> seen before right after JOB.  Usually it's the accounting info in 
> parenthesis like this:
>
> //MYJOBA JOB (TPX),'RUN MYJOB', CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=R,NOTIFY=ME
>
> That alone should tell me something, but not sure.
>
> At some shops I've noticed that the Job name has to be the 7 character 
> TSO user id plus one character, and if not I'd get that prompt, and if 
> I entered a letter it would run.
>
> I'm thinking a system exit, perhaps IEFUSI, may be one source.  What 
> else could this be?  I'd like to understand it better before bugging 
> the very busy sysprog.
>
> Kind regards,
> Lindy
>
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Sources of message: IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hello.

Can someone tell me what triggers this message/prompt?

IKJ56700A ENTER JOBNAME CHARACTER(S) -

One source I know of is when I try to submit something that isn't JCL.  But it 
also happens in weird ways (on different machines) for 'normal' JCL.

For example, I have a job card that looks similar to this:

//Y123A JOB TPX,'RUN JOB',
// CLASS=T,MSGCLASS=U,NOTIFY=

Doesn't matter what I put in there for job name, even filling it out to 8 
characters, I still get prompted.  And something that I've never seen before 
right after JOB.  Usually it's the accounting info in parenthesis like this:

//MYJOBA JOB (TPX),'RUN MYJOB', CLASS=A,MSGCLASS=R,NOTIFY=ME

That alone should tell me something, but not sure.

At some shops I've noticed that the Job name has to be the 7 character TSO user 
id plus one character, and if not I'd get that prompt, and if I entered a 
letter it would run.

I'm thinking a system exit, perhaps IEFUSI, may be one source.  What else could 
this be?  I'd like to understand it better before bugging the very busy sysprog.

Kind regards,
Lindy

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Re: REXX procedure needed

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi Jürgen,

I thought I had something similar, but it may have been SHOWMVS instead.

However, if it helps, here some basic starting code that will loop through the 
AS's.   You just have to find the other CB's.

Br,
Lindy

/* Rexx */  
/* Lists address spaces and if started task, batch job or TSO User */   
Numeric Digits 10   
CVT=Get_Stor('10'x) 
ASCB=Get_Stor(CVT,'234'x)   
OUCB=Get_Stor(ASCB,'90'x)   
Do While C2D(ASCB) /= 0 
 JBNI=Get_Stor(ASCB,'AC'x)  
 JBNS=Get_Stor(ASCB,'B0'x)  
 If C2D(JBNI) /= 0 Then 
   Jobname=Get_Stor(JBNI,0,8)   
 Else Jobname=Get_Stor(JBNS,0,8)
 OUCB=Get_Stor(ASCB,'90'x)  
 OUCBYFL=Get_Stor(OUCB,'12'x,1) 
 OUCBYFL=X2B(C2X(OUCBYFL))  
 OUCBSTT=Substr(OUCBYFL,2,1)
 OUCBLOG=Substr(OUCBYFL,3,1)
 OUCBMNT=Substr(OUCBYFL,4,1)
 If OUCBSTT Then Type='Started Task'
 If OUCBLOG Then Type='TSO User'
 If OUCBMNT Then Type='Mount'   
 If C2D(JBNI) /=0 Then Type='Batch Job' 
 Say Left(Jobname,8) Type   
 ASCB=Get_Stor(ASCB,4)  
End 
Return  

   
Get_Stor: PROCEDURE
  Parse Arg AREA,OFFSET,LENG   
  If Arg(2,'O') Then OFFSET=0  
  If Arg(3,'O') Then LENG=4
  If DataType(AREA) = 'CHAR' Then Do   
AREA =  C2D(AREA)  
  End  
  If DataType(OFFSET) = 'CHAR' Then Do 
OFFSET =  C2D(OFFSET)  
  End  
Return  Storage((D2X(AREA+OFFSET)),LENG)   
   


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Juergen Kehr
Sent: keskiviikko 12. huhtikuuta 2017 12.14
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: REXX procedure needed

Hello,

on page 44 of this older SHARE presentation 

https://share.confex.com/share/115/webprogram/Handout/Session6865/Understanding%20zOS%20CS%20storage%20use.pdf

a REXX procedure is mentioned, which shows several storage consumptions.
Does anybody know where to get this REXX procedure?

Thanks in advance for any help.
Kind regards
Juergen Kehr 

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Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

My question I guess was a bit more theoretical.  

If I submitted an assembler job that ran in a tight loop doing nothing but 
using CPU, it went straight into the RDR, high service class, and ran for 10 
CPU seconds.  

I'd expect the job to run at least 10 seconds wall clock time, plus the 
overhead of the system, but never under 10 seconds unless it is multithreaded 
perhaps.

>From SMF recs I can identify jobs sorted on cpu and excp to try to get the 
>worst offenders in all cases, but then I have to go into the individual job 
>log and see elapsed time.  I have already discovered huge wait times that I 
>cannot explain due to what I think is taking 20 minutes to not find a dataset, 
>perhaps some sort of catalog search problem.  

So, as Lizette pointed out, my scheme has flaws because there are too many 
factors that influence elapsed time, including locating system issues from RMF3 
and other nasty SMF record types.  It's easier to write a program to parse the 
job logs. :)

Thanks for all you help and knowledge.  I joined this group about 17 years ago, 
and I'm still the baby of the group. :)

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 22.16
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

I am not sure that looking at one SMF record can tell the story.

If the job ran long, was it due to

I/O

Looping Code

Larger than normal Data Load

And so on.

Maybe other can provide better insight.

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 9:42 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
> 
> I only have CPU time from SMF 30 but I don't have elapsed time which 
> is very important.  I'd like to somewhat infer that a high CPU time 
> means the job ran a long time.
> 
> /Lindy
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
> Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 18.55
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
> 
> What are you trying to solve?
> 
> Jobs get swapped in and out depending on what work they are doing.
> 
> 
> Are you trying to relate wall clock to cpu time?  I have seen jobs run 
> 2 hours wall clock time and only take 10 mins of CPU time.
> 
> Lizette
> 
> 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List 
> > [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
> > Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 8:48 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
> >
> > This may or may not be the dumbest question I've asked this week, 
> > but I've been working with Linux a lot lately so that's my excuse.
> >
> > For example, if an MVS job ran and consumed 10 CPU seconds (SMF 30 I 
> > think), can I assume that it at least took 10 seconds of elapsed 
> > time to
> run?
> >
> > Regards,
> > Lindy

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Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

from one single record I cannot get elapsed time, but from a set of records I 
can. 

please, don't look it up. I already have. :)  I'm only dealing with a few 
fields from that record, captured elsewhere, so even if it were there I 
couldn't use it.  

thank you, Clark.  a number of the smf recs layouts used to hang from my door 
at one time, all the way to the floor.  they don't anymore.  

/lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Clark Morris
Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 20.01
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Default] On 9 Apr 2017 09:41:33 -0700, in bit.listserv.ibm-main 
lindy.mayfi...@sas.com (Lindy Mayfield) wrote:

>I only have CPU time from SMF 30 but I don't have elapsed time which is very 
>important.  I'd like to somewhat infer that a high CPU time means the job ran 
>a long time.

There is a step start time and date in the SMF 30 type 4 record.  I am not 
certain if there is a step stop time and date since I don't want to take the 
time to bring up the appropriate manual and I don't have access to the 
Assembler Macros.  There may be other records that have start and stop times 
and the SMF 26 records may have execution time but only for the job.

Clark Morris
>
>/Lindy
>
>-Original Message-
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>On Behalf Of Lizette Koehler
>Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 18.55
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
>
>What are you trying to solve?
>
>Jobs get swapped in and out depending on what work they are doing.  
>
>
>Are you trying to relate wall clock to cpu time?  I have seen jobs run 2 hours 
>wall clock time and only take 10 mins of CPU time.
>
>Lizette
>
>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
>> On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
>> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 8:48 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
>> 
>> This may or may not be the dumbest question I've asked this week, but 
>> I've been working with Linux a lot lately so that's my excuse.
>> 
>> For example, if an MVS job ran and consumed 10 CPU seconds (SMF 30 I 
>> think), can I assume that it at least took 10 seconds of elapsed time to run?
>> 
>> Regards,
>> Lindy
>
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Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

you got me on that one, gil. :)  trying to exploit the ambiguity of a Sunday.  
guilty.

i got a side gig to figure out some performance problems, and it ain't on 
linux, but on a real machine.  and nothing is good on tv at the moment.

as Lizette pointed out, elapsed time is one thing independent on cpu.  

and vince pointed out my lack of knowledge.  on unix (linux) cpu can go over 
100%.  but for some reason I thought that no matter what on mvs, 1 cpu second 
(unless multithreaded) equaled 1 second at least wall clock time, no matter the 
cpu configuration.

I could have perhaps asked this a better and more mainframe way:

In the JES log from a batch job, will I ever see an elapsed time less than the 
CPU time?

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 19.03
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

On Sun, 9 Apr 2017 15:48:12 +, Lindy Mayfield wrote:

>This may or may not be the dumbest question I've asked this week, but I've 
>been working with Linux a lot lately so that's my excuse.
>
(It's only Sunday.)
(On what day does Finland(?) start the week?)

>For example, if an MVS job ran and consumed 10 CPU seconds (SMF 30 I think), 
>can I assume that it at least took 10 seconds of elapsed time to run?
> 
How do multiple CPUs count?  Might it be 10 seconds/number of CPUs active?

-- gil

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Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

I only have CPU time from SMF 30 but I don't have elapsed time which is very 
important.  I'd like to somewhat infer that a high CPU time means the job ran a 
long time.

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: sunnuntai 9. huhtikuuta 2017 18.55
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

What are you trying to solve?

Jobs get swapped in and out depending on what work they are doing.  


Are you trying to relate wall clock to cpu time?  I have seen jobs run 2 hours 
wall clock time and only take 10 mins of CPU time.

Lizette


> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
> On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
> Sent: Sunday, April 09, 2017 8:48 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time
> 
> This may or may not be the dumbest question I've asked this week, but 
> I've been working with Linux a lot lately so that's my excuse.
> 
> For example, if an MVS job ran and consumed 10 CPU seconds (SMF 30 I 
> think), can I assume that it at least took 10 seconds of elapsed time to run?
> 
> Regards,
> Lindy

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CPU Timerons/Seconds vs Wall-clock Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

This may or may not be the dumbest question I've asked this week, but I've been 
working with Linux a lot lately so that's my excuse.

For example, if an MVS job ran and consumed 10 CPU seconds (SMF 30 I think), 
can I assume that it at least took 10 seconds of elapsed time to run?

Regards,
Lindy

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Domino vs. Apache Web Server and Encoding Issue from CGI Program

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi group,

Did something change from z/OS 2.1 to 2.2 specifically that would mean that the 
Domino web server changed to the Apache web server?  Has anyone experienced 
this with their upgrade?

More specifically to my problem,  has anyone experience with going from Domino 
to Apache, and encountered issues with the encoding used by cgi applications 
and had to fix them?  I don’t mean something like 1143 vs. 1047 encoding, but 
ebcdic vs. asciii.  What once returned from a call, for example, “Hello world”, 
now looks something like “çè(<žŽ çá àžŽ”. ☺

I’ve no idea which end to look at first on this, at the app or at the server 
configuration, which is why I ask.  Also, I don’t know how big a change Domino 
is to Apache is, if it was meant to be a plug-and-play replacement or not.

Many thanks for any help or advice.

Kind regards,
Lindy Mayfield


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Re: SVC display

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi Jake,

Almost all systems have the level 2 diagnostic utility ISRFIND.  So you can run 
that (TSO ISRFIND from ISPF), put in the load module name, if it's a type 4 ESR 
the name will be IGX00nnn where nnn is the SVC number.  So if it is SVC 201 
then you'll put IGX00201 in the Member name field, then for Loadmod field put Y.

When you hit enter you can scroll down and on the right half of the screen when 
you see the member name you'll know what library it is loaded in.

If it's a standard user SVC, then the loadmod name is IGC0020A.  (The last 
letter is in packed decimal x'c1' in this case.)

HTH,
Lindy


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jake Anderson
Sent: maanantaina 7. marraskuuta 2016 12.05
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: SVC display

Hi

Apology in advance this might be a repetitive questions

I would like to know if there is any question to view SVC in use if it is added 
dynamically ?

Any pointers would be much appreciated.

Jake

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Re: Running USS with locale other than 1047

[Lindy Mayfield]

"Eeek" pretty much sums it all.  Even between latin1, latin9 and utf-8 is a 
huge eek.  They got their own problems, too.

ISPF-L, no, MVS-OE list, yes.  But since it's often a system wide setting that 
IBM may or may not recommend, that’s why I chose IBM-Main first to ask.  It 
affect the entire machine, not just OMVS guys.  

I thought about x-posting, but everyone always says, "sorry for x-posting, 
but...".  Seems like a bad thing, so I thought to get the big picture from here 
first then go to the OMVS list for specifics.  

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: keskiviikkona 12. lokakuuta 2016 23.28
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Running USS with locale other than 1047


Should some of this be on ISPF-L or MVS-OE?

-- gil

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Running USS with locale other than 1047

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hello,

I read in places where IBM gives both pros and cons to running USS with a code 
page other than 1047, if for example your 3270 terminal emulator is set to 
Danish.   I also find instructions such as this, though I'm not sure if this is 
all that is necessary to switch USS encoding:

http://www.ibm.com/support/knowledgecenter/SSLTBW_2.2.0/com.ibm.zos.v2r2.bpxb200/danish.htm

I'm curious how common it is for people to system wide set USS to be in a code 
page other than 1047 which matches their 3270 emulator?

If so, is this statement true for code points that don't match?  The shell 
script will fail if it has $ or curly braces or brackets, etc., characters 
outside of that cp.

What happens if I use putty or similar ssh client and then edit a shell script 
using vi?  Would that be the same as using ISHELL to edit the same shell 
script, and my 3270 emulator is set to 1143?

Apologies if my questions aren't clear, as this topic isn't very clear to me at 
the moment.  Hopefully someone with experience with this will help me 
understand it better.

Kind regards,
Lindy Mayfield

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JCL and Ansible

[Lindy Mayfield]

Kinda sort of look like the same thing, or what JCL would be if there wasn't 
the "six verb limit."  :)

Br,
Lindy


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Re: BPX.SMF misuse?

[Lindy Mayfield]

If you try to call BPX1SMF with an SMF record number of 128 or less you'll get 
a return code 121, EINVAL.  So only user SMF records are allowed.

Br,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Andrew Rowley
Sent: tiistaina 31. toukokuuta 2016 9.34
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: BPX.SMF misuse?

My main point however was that if you need BPX.SMF access to write JZOS 
statistics, you can also write any data into any SMF record type you like, 
including writing your own type 30, type 80, type 89...

--
Andrew Rowley
Black Hill Software
+61 413 302 386


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Re: Scheduled STCs running as instream procs?

[Lindy Mayfield]

That was the message I got.  And I forget exactly but $DPROCLIB gave me I think 
something like MSTJCL00, MSTJCL01, then some dataset names.

Cancelling a started task caused it to start right up again. 

So my problem was that normally I can work backwards on MVS to find the source 
code of the STC, but here I couldn't.  Some automation software was in control, 
and that instream message was new to me.  

If I was smarter I could have a) figured out where/how MSTJCLxx was allocated, 
b) figure out what automation software was used (probably Tivoli or one of 
those), or c) found somebody who knew. 

I honestly had to write a simple Rexx program to look at the control blocks to 
show what security program was being used, even though I was told and it was 
clear it was RACF.  I just saw too many messages starting ACF9, and hardly 
any ICH so perhaps they had major message suppression going on there that 
I'd never seen before. 

Br, 
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Dan D
Sent: tiistaina 3. toukokuuta 2016 20.58
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Scheduled STCs running as instream procs?


Willy,

If you look at the SYSMSGS of a started job you will still see ...
3 IEFC001I PROCEDURE procname WAS EXPANDED USING INSTREAM PROCEDURE
DEFINITION  

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Re: Scheduled STCs running as instream procs?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hello,

Yeah, after a very long day, then a long flight with time to think about it, 
then I thought to ask, and all I had in my head was sketchy.   I asked for the 
exact text about the instream from the JES2 sysout in SDSF by email so I can 
post it here later if it is helpful.

The STC is nothing more than a simple vendor daemon.  It doesn't do anything 
special. 

To be honest, out of frustration I threw together a quick Rexx program to look 
at the control block that says which security product was being used.  It was 
and is RACF.  But a search for ICH* in the system log made me think it was 
ACF/2 cause I saw a lot of messages starting something like ACF? (some letter 
or number) or similar.  But no, it's RACF used there.

Message suppression?  I expected ICH420I and the corresponding BPX messages.  
Probably the busiest system log I've seen in a long time, yet I couldn't find 
anything useful or that I expected.

Still, thanks Lizette as always for your help. :-)

Br,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: torstaina 28. huhtikuuta 2016 1.28
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Scheduled STCs running as instream procs?

Lindy,

These details are a little sketchy.  Could you add some more details?

What STC (Is it a vendor product or something else)?

Can you show us your display details that  you were looking at?

Show us the SJ output?  Anything else relevant?

Thanks

Lizette

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Scheduled STCs running as instream procs?

[Lindy Mayfield]

No machines are as customizable as mainframes, especially ones that have been 
running for decades.  Sometimes things are hard to figure out, especially if 
the machine goes from the owner to outsourced or whatever, and all that, then 
people are "let go" and new people have to take over and try to understand.  
Lots of times my job is to help with such transitions.

Today I saw something I've never seen before.  I wanted to know where a started 
task was running from and normally the SDSF jes2 log shows which proclib it was 
loaded from.  But it said it was instream, and looking at the SJ jcl it didn't 
look "normal."

$DPROCS showed something weird, I forget, but it was some proclib DD's, two or 
3 of them, then the system proclibs by name (SYS1.PROCLIB, etc).

When I stopped the STC, it started right back up again, which meant automation 
software was there.  It also meant that any proc of the same name in any of the 
SYS1. or similar proclibs wouldn't start before the ones that seems to be 
dynamically allocated in some way.

Anyone have any idea what software I'm dealing with?  I'll get around this by 
simply creating a new STC name with STDATA and new USER and putting it in one 
of the proclibs like SYS1.VDR.PROCLIB, but I'd like to understand if I can what 
I wasted a few hours trying to figure out and never did.  :)

Thanks and kind regards!
Lindy





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Re: How to find where a module has been dynamically loaded from?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Or you can also use ISRFIND.  

Put in the Member Name and LOADMOD Y.

It will find anything, including SVC's.  

Br,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of David Griffiths1
Sent: tiistaina 5. huhtikuuta 2016 16.31
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How to find where a module has been dynamically loaded from?

Hey, that's just the kind of thing I was after, thanks!

Cheers,

Dave Griffiths
IBM Operational Decision Manager
z/OS Developer
IBM United Kingdom Limited, Hursley Park, Winchester, SO21 2JN, UK
Tel: +44 1962 816478 Mobile: 07590 195531 dgr...@uk.ibm.com
 

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Re: [SURVEY] What ISPF terminal model do you use

[Lindy Mayfield]

I totally agree.  I've used it since, probably over 15 years now.  I just paid 
for it because our company didn't force us to use theirs. :-)

I couldn't be happier with it.  I totally recommend it over any I've ever used.

/Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Linda
Sent: perjantaina 18. maaliskuuta 2016 5.26
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [SURVEY] What ISPF terminal model do you use

Hi Skip, 

I much prefer Tom's Vista3270 as well. But at work, there is only Attachmate.

Linda

Sent from my iPhone

> On Mar 10, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Jesse 1 Robinson  
> wrote:
> 
> Tom Brennan is too modest to peddle his product, so I'll do it. Get a copy of 
> Vista3270. Screen size flexibility is only one of its many virtues. 
> 
> .
> .
> .
> J.O.Skip Robinson
> Southern California Edison Company
> Electric Dragon Team Paddler
> SHARE MVS Program Co-Manager
> 323-715-0595 Mobile
> 626-302-7535 Office
> robin...@sce.com
> 
> 

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Re: SYSPROC Concatenation?

[Lindy Mayfield]

IBM does this exact same thing in an OOTB ServerPac install. It allocates 
libraries in the logon proc then calls a clist to reallocate them. 

For no apparently good reason.

I've done that when I wanted more control, for example, who gets what 
libraries, maybe certain users get dev libraries allocated first, the 
possibilities are endless.

Br,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Paul Gilmartin
Sent: keskiviikkona 16. maaliskuuta 2016 17.22
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU


Grrr...  I hate MVS!  It seems to have a philosophy of denying flexibility to 
end users and elevating it to administrators.  The default PARM for
IKJEFT01 ought to be something such as "EXEC 'prefix.CLIST(PROFILE)'"

The chapter cited above mentions the COMMAND field of the LOGON panel.  I 
believe this is persistent and could be a script to perform the concatenation 
you want.

Don't forget SYSEXEC.

--gil

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Re: Grace didn't coin the term "bug"?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Yeah, I didn't know, thought it was her (she's still an hero of the computer 
revolution, bugs and all), but when looking I saw wiki is starting an 
etymological dictionary.  Says what you say.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_bug#Etymology


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of William Donzelli
Sent: tiistaina 15. maaliskuuta 2016 19.56
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Grace didn't coin the term "bug"?

No, she did not. The term "bug", relating to flaws and errors in a circuit*, 
shows up a fair amount in 1930s ham radio literature, for example.

* "bug" also applies to automatic Morse keys, of course.

--
Wil

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Grace didn't coin the term "bug"?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Was watching NCIS Los Angeles and the geek was showing off to the female geek 
by saying Grace Hopper didn't coin the term bug, but Thomas Edison did.  (Which 
he probably stole from someone else, probably Tesla, but that just me being 
facetious.)

http://theinstitute.ieee.org/technology-focus/technology-history/did-you-know-edison-coined-the-term-bug

Regards,
Lindy



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Re: Cannot allocate Steplib?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Yeah, I apologize for this dumb question.  We used to have a STEPLIB add 
command that we could use from TSO, way back then, and a CLIST or Rexx to 
reallocate any ISPF, especially SYSPROC libraries for testing.

I'd been doing too much Linux lately and had a senior moment.  I didn't put my 
regular steplib into my logon proc for just the reason people were talking 
about, because I was making APF authorized Rexx assembler functions and simply 
copying the modules to a linklst library.  I have z/OS on z/VM to play with as 
ibmuser so I can pretty much do what I want.

But the one I was playing with now isn't apf authorized and I forgot to fix my 
logon proc back (from like 4 years ago). :-)

Thanks for the new stuff I learned by asking a mixed up question.  But I got it 
now.

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Steve Beaver
Sent: tiistaina 15. maaliskuuta 2016 17.34
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Cannot allocate Steplib?

CM - you are assuming that the guy with the question can issue console 
commands.  

I would NEVER let a general user near my console much less the SETPROG command

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Re: Cannot allocate Steplib?

[Lindy Mayfield]

I love Linux, but my real love is mainframe.  I had a senior moment, and I 
haven't been on mainframe as much as I like to be.

It was SYSPROC that was commonly reallocated by CLIST and Rexx scripts in order 
to do testing in the right order test/dev/prod or whatever.  Not STEPLIB.

I think there is a steplib command, but I don't remember when I used it, and 
that's outside the scope of this.

Sorry about that.  :-(

Lindy

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Cannot allocate Steplib?

[Lindy Mayfield]

I just started getting this error, though I cannot remember the last time I 
tried to (re)allocate steplib.

IKJ56236I  FILE STEPLIB INVALID, FILENAME RESTRICTED

Something's funny because I'm sure I converted a clist to rexx 20+ years ago to 
loop through a listcat, pick out the steplibs, and put mine in front.  And then 
when I went somewhere else and lost the scripts had to write another one, only 
to find out later someone else had also.

Is it perhaps because my logon proc doesn't have a steplib in it?  Or is there 
some parmlib setting that controls this?  I looked through all the error docs 
and didn't find anything other than to use a different name.

Thanks for your help. :)
Lindy


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Re: IBM Destination z - What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?

[Lindy Mayfield]

You may find this of interest.  Fred Brooks talks about JCL. I couldn't find 
the original online, but I probably could if I tried harder.  

http://lilliana.eu/downloads/jcltalk.txt

Cheers,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Gould
Sent: torstaina 4. helmikuuta 2016 19.52
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Destination z - What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?

http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Trends/What-the-Heck-Is- 
JCL-and-Why-Does-It-Look-So-Funny


What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?
It's important to give job control language its due respect helping  
others
- See more at: http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Trends/What- 
the-Heck-Is-JCL-and-Why-Does-It-Look-So-Funny#sthash.TRwMFSIg.dpuf


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Re: IBM Destination z - What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?

[Lindy Mayfield]

I found it here, at about 1:50.
http://www.computerhistory.org/revolution/mainframe-computers/7/162/2270

-Lindy

-Original Message-
From: Lindy Mayfield 
Sent: perjantaina 5. helmikuuta 2016 20.44
To: 'IBM Mainframe Discussion List' <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: RE: IBM Destination z - What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So 
Funny?

You may find this of interest.  Fred Brooks talks about JCL. I couldn't find 
the original online, but I probably could if I tried harder.  

http://lilliana.eu/downloads/jcltalk.txt

Cheers,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Ed Gould
Sent: torstaina 4. helmikuuta 2016 19.52
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM Destination z - What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?

http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Trends/What-the-Heck-Is- 
JCL-and-Why-Does-It-Look-So-Funny


What the Heck Is JCL and Why Does It Look So Funny?
It's important to give job control language its due respect helping  
others
- See more at: http://destinationz.org/Mainframe-Solution/Trends/What- 
the-Heck-Is-JCL-and-Why-Does-It-Look-So-Funny#sthash.TRwMFSIg.dpuf


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Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

[Lindy Mayfield]

That explains why I didn't get a reply to the email I sent to her asking if Mr. 
Gilmore was ok.  :-(

-Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Aled Hughes
Sent: torstaina 4. helmikuuta 2016 11.42
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

Thanks for the info Tony, and Lindy reminded me of John's wife's name. Sadly, 
Mrs. Gilmore (Kate) passed away in January last year. She was an author. 


https://www.sfsite.com/news/2015/01/13/obituary-kate-gilmore/


She also had her own website: http://www.kategilmore.net/


We can only hope that John will return to add his wise counsel on the forum 
soon. 


Best regards
Aled L Hughes







-Original Message-
From: Tony Harminc 
To: IBM-MAIN 
Sent: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 23:46
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

On 3 February 2016 at 15:02, Pommier, Rex  wrote:
> Is this the same John Gilmore?  The obituary you listed is from January of 
> 2015, and I found a note from Elardus from November stating that John hadn't 
> posted anything since November 5, 2015.

Though John Thomas "Jack" Gilmore Jr. sounds like a fascinating fellow, he 
cannot be "our" John Gilmore. The birthdate (even the
month) doesn't match, neither does his wife's first name, and it is 
inconceivable that there would be no mention of our Mr Gilmore's European 
education and language facility.

Tony H.

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Re: Obtaining current ASID in REXX

[Lindy Mayfield]

Here is a little Rexx utility that I wrote to display a bunch of good stuff 
from the ASCB, including ASID in both hex and decimal.  Mostly it was used to 
explore 522 timeout issues, but it shows some cool stuff, plus shows you one 
way to make your way through the control blocks.

http://7cats.eu/downloads/d522.rexx.v3.05.txt

It runs under ISPF.  You just have to exec it.  I put all the ISPF stuff inside 
the code as data. ;-)

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Sankaranarayanan, Vignesh
Sent: torstaina 4. helmikuuta 2016 13.03
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Obtaining current ASID in REXX

Hi folks,

I'm looking for a piece of code in REXX to access the current ASID. I remember 
seeing this in one of the installation REXX'es that came with the BMC ICE for 
Control-M.
I'm hoping that one of you has had to do this in the past and can help me out 
here.

Ex:
If I'm running a REXX via a job, the output should be the ASID of the job.
If I'm running a REXX via a ISPF, the output should be the ASID of my logon 
procedure.

Thank you!

- Vignesh
Mainframe Infrastructure


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Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Some of it sounds like him, writing the first computer program, but I know him 
best for his linguistic skills which I was sure would have been mentioned.  How 
many languages did he speak?  We used to email about languages and linguistics 
and music (he was an extremely accomplished cellist as he told me they were 
working on Bartok's 4th) and he was trying to get me into reading James Joyce 
and liking it. 

Anyway I miss him.

))Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Pommier, Rex
Sent: keskiviikkona 3. helmikuuta 2016 21.03
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

Is this the same John Gilmore?  The obituary you listed is from January of 
2015, and I found a note from Elardus from November stating that John hadn't 
posted anything since November 5, 2015.  

Rex

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 1:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/bostonglobe/obituary.aspx?pid=173966106


On Wed, Feb 3, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Lindy Mayfield <lindy.mayfi...@sas.com> wrote:
> I often corresponded with him by email now and then, but it stopped and I've 
> seen no posts by him here or on the assembler list in a while.  Has anyone 
> seen him around?
>
> Kind regards,
> Lindy
>
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--
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Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

[Lindy Mayfield]

All his emails ended something like
John Gilmore
Ashton, MA (then a zip code)

I sent a postcard from Rouen once there and I don't think he got it.  But 
nothing in the obit mentions Ashton.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Mike Schwab
Sent: keskiviikkona 3. helmikuuta 2016 20.52
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

http://www.legacy.com/obituaries/bostonglobe/obituary.aspx?pid=173966106


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Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

[Lindy Mayfield]

That's right. He always mentioned his wife by name, not "my wife". And that 
name in the obit wasn't familiar.  It was Kate or something like that IIRC.

I don't like seeing people from mainframe groups that I follow disappear.  It 
reminds me of my mainframe career mortality.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Godfrey
Sent: torstaina 4. helmikuuta 2016 0.34
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

John mentioned his wife's name in a post exactly 3 years ago. It's not the same 
as the name of the wife in the obit.

Bill

On Wed, 3 Feb 2016 15:02:42 -0800, Charles Mills wrote:

>How could an obit of "our" John Gilmore not mention the IBM mainframe or PL/I?
>
>I met (interviewed with, actually) "our" John (then going by "Jack") Gilmore 
>in 1968 or 1969. At that point he was living in NY (or possibly NJ) and 
>heading a software firm called John Gilmore or perhaps John W. Gilmore and 
>Associates. No mention of that in the obit, although there is a gap in the 
>obit from 1959 to 1974.
>
>Charles
>
>-Original Message-
>From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List On Behalf Of Ed Jaffe
>Sent: Wednesday, February 03, 2016 12:21 PM
>To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>Subject: Re: Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?
>
>On 2/3/2016 12:05 PM, Ed Jaffe wrote:
>> One and the same...
>
>At least, that's my assumption based on what I know about his age and where he 
>lived. I suppose there could be two John Gilmores, roughly the same age, both 
>with sysprog backgrounds, living in that area...
>

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Anyone seen Mr. Gilmore?

[Lindy Mayfield]

I often corresponded with him by email now and then, but it stopped and I've 
seen no posts by him here or on the assembler list in a while.  Has anyone seen 
him around?

Kind regards,
Lindy

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How to get TSOCMD to recognize my TSO PROFILE MSGID

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi,

I also asked this on the MVS-OE list.

I'm using the TSO OMVS interface and running a Java program that looks for IDC 
messages, especially for the DELETE command using TSOCMD cause DEL is 
authorized.

Before I go into OMVS my TSO PROFILE MSGID is on.  When I get to OMVS I can 
type PROFILE and hit F6 and see MSGID.  But when I type TSOCMD PROFILE I see 
NOMSGID.  And when I type TSOCMD PROFILE MSGID, then check with TSOCMD PROFILE 
I see that it's still NOMSGID.

How can I turn on MSGID when using TSOCMD?

Thanks!
Lindy

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Re: How to get TSOCMD to recognize my TSO PROFILE MSGID

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi,

A proper rt'ing of the fm shows a TSOPROFILE environment variable that needed 
to be used. :)

Sorry for the premature posts.

Happy New Year to all!
Lindy

From: Lindy Mayfield
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 7:32 PM
To: 'IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU' <IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU>
Subject: How to get TSOCMD to recognize my TSO PROFILE MSGID

Hi,

I also asked this on the MVS-OE list.

I'm using the TSO OMVS interface and running a Java program that looks for IDC 
messages, especially for the DELETE command using TSOCMD cause DEL is 
authorized.

Before I go into OMVS my TSO PROFILE MSGID is on.  When I get to OMVS I can 
type PROFILE and hit F6 and see MSGID.  But when I type TSOCMD PROFILE I see 
NOMSGID.  And when I type TSOCMD PROFILE MSGID, then check with TSOCMD PROFILE 
I see that it's still NOMSGID.

How can I turn on MSGID when using TSOCMD?

Thanks!
Lindy

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Re: How to get TSOCMD to recognize my TSO PROFILE MSGID

[Lindy Mayfield]

It's an environment variable: 

export TSOPROFILE='msgid'

Actually, I wanted it turned on because the software was looking for IGC* 
message id's to know if a delete was successful or not.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Tuesday, December 29, 2015 10:39 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: How to get TSOCMD to recognize my TSO PROFILE MSGID

In <9031884752514948.wa.paulgboulderaim@listserv.ua.edu>, on
12/29/2015
   at 01:11 PM, Paul Gilmartin
<000433f07816-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> said:

>But it reverts to its prior setting before the next use of TSOCMD.

As it should.

>That is his complaint.

No.
 
-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 ISO position; see 
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Controlling, managing, monitoring data- and hiperspaces

[Lindy Mayfield]

I'm in the process of learning about and how z/OS controls data and 
hiperspaces, for example are there any parmlib or tuning options available at a 
system level?

What about on a more granular level?  Any way to limit or control, for example, 
on a user basis?  Will the IEFUSI exit control down to the data/hiperspace 
allocation level?

Does WLM have any plan in this?  What about RMF, is there anything in there or 
another monitoring product that would display or alert if there are storage 
problems, especially hiper/dataspace related?

Thanks and kind regards,
Lindy

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z/OS and hiperspaces

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi,

I want to learn about hiperspaces, especially what sorts of  z/OS tuning 
options there are to control them,  what might be the impact on the system if 
users create too many or too many large  ones, stuff like that.  Where  would I 
read and learn about things like that?

And is there a way to monitor hiperspaces,  like using RMF?

This is a totally new topic for me so I am beginning from the beginning.  
Google and friendly mail lists.  :)

Kind regards,
Lindy

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Re: z/OS and hiperspaces

[Lindy Mayfield]

Does it work like this?  If it is a simple batch program then memory allocation 
totals (including hiperspaces) can be controlled by IEFUSI.  I mean, if for 
some reason hyperspace usage becomes a problem on the system.

But what if that address space is dubbed as an OMVS address space? Do the 
BPXPRM memory options then impose the final limits? Like ASSIZEMAX/MAXASSIZE?

Another way of asking, if for some reason hyperspace usage became a problem and 
the problem program ran in a UNIX address space, would BPXPRM limits (or 
corresponding RACF OMVS segment) be a way to tune things?

Regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 4:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS and hiperspaces

In impacting the system, there is no difference in whatever storage a user 
consumes largely. It can/will result in heavy page-outs, which are not 
necessarily bad if the pages are old, and consequently heave page-ins which 
will impact your system performance.
Hiperspaces can be much larger than dataspaces, but you can have many of both.
The structure of hiper- and dataspaces are quite different and the techniques 
to use them are evenly different. The same is true for 64-bit storage.

Kees.

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Re: z/OS and hiperspaces

[Lindy Mayfield]

I was under the impression that hiperspace is a bit better choice over 
dataspace for larger work files.  But actually I'm trying to understand how 
both types of them work, and how users could potentially impact a system if 
they can allocate large amounts of hiperspace or dataspace memory.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Vernooij, CP (ITOPT1) - KLM
Sent: Tuesday, November 24, 2015 12:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: z/OS and hiperspaces

Hi,

I suggest you also consider dataspaces. With regard to what users can do with 
them and what impact they have on the system, they are similar: they use 
virtual (and therefor central storage). E.g. IEFUSI has only one value to limit 
the a user's use of hiper- and dataspaces. A special user is DFSORT, which can 
use huge amounts of it, but takes well care not to the impact the system to 
much.

Kees.

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Re: What is a request block prefix?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Ok, thanks for the information.  This is a bit over my head then.  I thought RB 
was a generic thing, but I think it is a part of the OS that I don't understand 
well. Yet.

But to be clear, a SDB abend means there was no module in memory (defined) 
found called either IGX00219 or IGC0021I, and the module was never called?  

Then when do I get a S16D?  That also happens when I call a non-existent SVC. 

Perhaps a better way to phrase my question would be that what did I receive a 
SDB abend when I expected a S16D abend.  The fix is the same either way by the 
way, I know that now.

Best regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Peter Relson
Sent: Wednesday, October 14, 2015 3:06 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What is a request block prefix?

As others have said:

"Request Block" = RB (mapped by IHARB / IKJRB).
The 64 bytes before the beginning of the RB are the RB prefix (RBPRFX in IHARB, 
RBPREFIX in IKJRB). For those in the know, it's actually the "32 bytes before" 
but the mapping is of the 64 bytes.

But for an Fxx abend, you would almost never care. As Skip mentioned, a Fxx 
abend is "you issued an SVC that is not defined".

Peter Relson
z/OS Core Technology Design

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What is a request block prefix?

[Lindy Mayfield]

In the system completion codes documentation it says that for an abend FDB that 
register 2 points to the request block prefix.  What is a 'request block 
prefix' in this context?

Verbatim it reads:
"When nn is not equal to 13, 14, 17, or 37, the system records in register 2 
the address of the request block prefix for the program that issued the 
incorrect SVC."

Thanks in advance for any advice.
Regards,
Lindy

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Re: What are STC, JOB and TSU?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Thank you every one very much for your valuable input.

From all I've read, the answer really wasn't very straightforward.  But the two 
experts SDSF and MXG call it Task Type, but not sure about IOF, I got bored 
looking for it. 

And in some of my own Rexx code I just found there were five types used: JOB, 
SUB, STC, TSU, OTH.  There wasn't a title (like Task Type) but I did assign 
them to variables starting ASCB.   (Personally with this particular work I 
only have JOB, STC, TSU).

John, the Unix stuff is so super cool like you said, but for me in this very 
particular case I am working on when I see a TSO user ID racking up CPU time as 
an STC, with my inside information I now know exactly what is going on.  They 
are spawned client/server sessions.

Regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John McKown
Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 3:08 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: What are STC, JOB and TSU?


I would probably say something like: On z/OS there are four classifications of 
address spaces. Three of them are controlled by the Job Entry Subsystem (JES), 
and the type can be derived from the JES job id.
Those three types are J, S, and T; for JOB (batch work), STC (started task), 
and TSU (TSO users) respectively. The fourth type of address space is called a 
system address space. This type of address space runs outside of the control of 
the JES and so, normally, does do any SPOOL activity.
This type of address space can be started with an operator command by adding 
the SUB=MSTR parameter to the START. It can also be created programmatically 
using internal facilities such as the ASCRE system service. Since they run 
outside the control of JES, they do not normally have a JES job id. There are 
facilities whereby such an address space can register itself with JES, at which 
time it is given an STC job id.

I.e. substitute address space for blank. I am fairly sure that when the 
CPU is not in a WAIT, that there is a value in the PSAAOLD which, IMO, makes 
that ASID the current ASID. Hum, is this true? The only thing I'm not sure of 
is a global SRB. Can PSAAOLD be zero while a global SRB is running? The STO 
control register has to have _something_ valid in it unless you are somehow 
running DAT OFF. Which is _extremely_ rare in z/OS.

Depending on the level of detail you want, you might not want to even mention 
the system address space in such detail. But you might want to mention it 
briefly because such will show up in SDSF, but without a JES assigned id.

I also don't know if you want to inject anything about the weird and 
wonderful way that z/OS UNIX works. I.e. a batch job, with a JOBn assigned 
to it, can be a UNIX process. But a child process, created with fork()/spawn(), 
runs as a separate STCn type address space (ignoring local spawn(), of 
course). But that may be too much information. I couldn't even make it clear to 
other experienced sysprogs (one of whom had been a vendor developer) very well. 
But that may be a personal (me) issue. grin/


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What are STC, JOB and TSU?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Hi group,

I'm having a bit of a problem identifying what classification those names are.

I know what started tasks and TSO users and batch jobs are, but if I were to 
say:

On MVS there are three blank  (or three types of blank) which can be 
derived from the JES job ID.  J or JOB means batch, S or STC means started task 
and T or TSU means a TSO user.

(My best guess was 'job type')

Are there more than these three?  I'm simply writing some high-level 
documentation, and I've already used up my quota of writing thingy when I 
don't know what it is.  MVS has a lot of thingies.

Thanks for your help.
Lindy


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Calculation involving SMF CPU Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

I needed to pull off some user SMF records, and so I used a small program that 
I had written about 6 or so years ago.  In it, I have a line of code like this:

SMFCPU = SMFCPU / 38400

I honestly cannot remember why I did that, to divide by 38400, but I must have 
had a good reason.  It doesn't appear to be time related.  I'm sure someone 
here knows, though.

Thank you kindly :)
Lindy



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Re: Calculation involving SMF CPU Time

[Lindy Mayfield]

Thank you very much for your help, Elardus.  I am using this:

SMFCPU DS F  CPU time in timer units

So I am just converting to CPU seconds then.  As soon as I noticed timer 
units in the DSECT I realized it. Thanks for checking for me.  I'm not sure if 
I got that number myself from a doc, or if someone here helped me with it a 
long time ago.  Perhaps that thread was mine and you remembered it. :-)

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Wednesday, October 15, 2014 9:55 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Calculation involving SMF CPU Time

Lindy Mayfield wrote:

I needed to pull off some user SMF records, and so I used a small program that 
I had written about 6 or so years ago.  In it, I have a line of code like this:

SMFCPU = SMFCPU / 38400

I honestly cannot remember why I did that, to divide by 38400, but I must have 
had a good reason.  It doesn't appear to be time related.  I'm sure someone 
here knows, though.

I believe there are good reasons, since 38400 is a product of 640 and 60. 

I vaguely remember some threads about that, something about 'ticks' or CPU 
Timer which if you multiply it enough, you will come at about 1 second.

Ok, After some RTFM in SMF book, POP, macros references, I believe it is 
26.04166 microseconds (one timer unit), which if you multiply it by 38400, you 
arrive at 999 999.744 which could be translated to about 1 second AFAIK. 

What I know the resolution of CPU values in SMF records are in hundreds of 
seconds, while the STORE CLOCK (EXTENDED) use more bits in the clock value 
which is higher resolution.

Alternatively, could you be kind to show all statements which contain SMFCPU 
before that SMFCPU / 38400?

This is to see how you got your SMFCPU in the first place and at wat value 
format it was.

Groete / Greetings
Elardus Engelbrecht

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Re: Interested in BASH becoming part of z/OS UNIX? Vote for requirement 60048

[Lindy Mayfield]

Some years ago, back when it was Tools  Toys there was bash and I installed it 
and used it. I really liked it (compared to sh) but it was just too buggy so I 
removed it.  

If it is still around, and it's updated, then perhaps I'll give it a go again.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Monday, October 06, 2014 4:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Interested in BASH becoming part of z/OS UNIX? Vote for 
requirement 60048

Peter Hunkeler wrote:

People at our installation have got used to use BASH. I think it would be 
about time BASH becomes an integral part of z/OS UNIX Sevices. I have opened a 
requirement for this.

Thats a cool idea! I believe many will benefit from it.

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Re: Demonstrating Moore's law

[Lindy Mayfield]

Wow, I learned a lot today.  :-)  Thanks!

Elardus, that is a very fair statement.  I should have said, It seems very 
clear that IBM mainframes have  grown bigger and more powerful and at an 
alarming rate since the 360 in 1964 (when I was born),  but does this trend 
follow at all Moore's law?

I did find a nice table showing disk space costs by megabyte.  Amazing.

Br, Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Elardus Engelbrecht
Sent: Monday, June 09, 2014 9:58 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Demonstrating Moore's law

Lindy Mayfield wrote:

It is quite clear that IBM mainframes follow Moore's law, and I wanted to see 
if I could verify that somehow.

Elardus Engelbrecht wrote:
 Based on what are you making above claim?

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Demonstrating Moore's law

[Lindy Mayfield]

It is quite clear that IBM mainframes follow Moore's law, and I wanted to see 
if I could verify that somehow.

Looking at disk space costs by megabyte is just mind blowing.  Not sure I can 
use that.  Would I graph the costs?

My question is, what criteria could I use if I wanted to make a simple graph?  
MIPS is the only thing I can think of, and if it is, would I use the maximum 
MIPS for every model?  360, 370, 4341, up to z10, and so on.

This is just a curiosity, and thanks in advance for any input.

Kind regards,
Lindy

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Re: Serialization without Enque

[Lindy Mayfield]

I have often thought about that but I don't quite understand why it is needed.  
Would you give an example of a problem that is fixed by this method?

Thanks!
Lindy

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Anne  Lynn Wheeler [l...@garlic.com]
Sent: 19 November 2013 16:49
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque

charlie had invented compare-and-swap while doing fine grain
multiprocessing locking for cp67 at the cambridge science center.
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Re: Serialization without Enque

[Lindy Mayfield]

I've been having fun with this.  Build an entire CPU, assembler, vm, operating 
system, etc from nothing but a Nand gate.  I've gotten as far as building all 
the basic gates plus an ALU, all in a simplified HDL.  CPU, RAM all that to 
follow.  

http://nand2tetris.org/

Lindy

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
John Gilmore [jwgli...@gmail.com]
Sent: 19 November 2013 19:11
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Serialization without Enque

Perhaps an analogy will help.  Boolean algebra is usually discussed
using the binary operations disjunction (inclusive-or) and conjunction
and the singulary operation negation.  It is, however, possible to
shown that one binary operation, either NOR or NAND suffices.

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TSO Delete in IKJTSOxx

[Lindy Mayfield]

I am curious why sometimes I see DEL/DELETE as an authorized command in 
IKJTSOxx and sometimes not.  I don't see it in my CPAC install, but I've seen 
it pop up in other systems.  The reason I ask is because sometimes I want to 
use /bin/tso to do a DELETE, but it fails.  Of course the solution is to either 
use /bin/tsocmd or take DEL out.  I'm just curious why it is there.

Thanks!
Lindy


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Ted talk: George Dyson at the birth of the computer

[Lindy Mayfield]

I found this very fun to listen to, and thought to share it.  I particularly 
liked the work notes from the people building and programming the computers in 
the 50's.

Kind regards,
Lindy

http://www.ted.com/talks/george_dyson_at_the_birth_of_the_computer.html



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Re: Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

i thought I just read a self-appointed list cop say that he would rather we 
stop talking about cool stuff just so he doesn't have to  ... errr, umm.  hit 
delete?  no, not that.  Skip it?  No, he would have to read it first. Some 
people like Fortunato know what is best for me.  I don't know.  It isn't my 
list.  But IMHO, flooding the list owner with complaints is more honest than 
flooding the list.  but I digress. 

Anyway, best way to stop an unwanted thread is to ignore it.  best way to let 
someone else know you don't like what he/she is discussing it, is to just 
ignore it.  so having said that.

Granted a punch card in no matter what language would most likely be 80 bytes 
long.

but what about the very first language, assembler?  Mnemonics would most likely 
hide a multitude of  grammatical elements, say, for example, the one that comes 
to mind most often for me (other than SQL), which is COBOL.  Her language needs 
lots of verbs and prepositions.  And Ms. Hopper's language was really just one 
step ahead of assembler.  

C?  Nothing there that requires any identity with any language.  

JCL?  Nope.  It only has 6 verbs (according to Montresor Brooks, Jr). (1)

I just cannot help feeling that somewhere along the way languages similar as 
English in some similar as English way makes some things easier in computer 
stuff.  Cool people were talking about this and for me it was fun.  

Now after being chastised I might as well go down with some pride and fortune.

Ciao.
Lindy

(1)
http://lilliana.eu/downloads/jcltalk.txt





-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Sunday, November 25, 2012 3:26 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

In 50afbbd1.2020...@t-online.de, on 11/23/2012
   at 07:09 PM, Bernd Oppolzer bernd.oppol...@t-online.de said:

For a native German speaker, it is always remarkable that in the 
English language there are often two words for the same thing.

It's worse than that; sometimes there are more than two words for the same 
thing, sometimes there are distinctinct English words derived from the same 
root.

One from the indo-german or anglo-saxon language origin, and the 
other from latin.

Don't forget French[1] and Greek.

[1] Yes, I know it's a Romance language, but it's not the same as
Latin

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: OMVS su -

[Lindy Mayfield]

I know what you mean, Don.  

For MVS-OE subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
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Try that list.  They really do know all about this stuff.  I recall from the 
last few years, over 10,  this same topic gone over the same add gnausium.  

Best regards.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Donald J.
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 8:18 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: OMVS su -

We have serveral OMVS userids of 0.  Is their any way to control which of those 
gets utilized when an su - command is entered?  I would like it to be the 
omvs
userid each time.  

Some of the UID 0 userids have a home of /, and a couple have no home
defined.   Seems like the
last UID 0 defined is probably the one selected for su - and directory 
displays.  I have defined a /home/root/.profile and added a soft link for 
/.profile to go there, but if a userid with no home defined is selected, it 
doesn't activate a .profile script.  Owner of those IDs doesn't want them 
changed to add a home.
--
  Donald J.
  dona...@4email.net

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Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

Tweedledee and Tweedledum _Agreed_ to have a fight. 

Someday soon some language will be the Lingua Chinoise and COBOL will start 
looking really funny.  

I just had the extreme pleasure of helping a colleague from Beijing doing some 
installation in z/OS, and she had never seen or touched a mainframe before.  
Ever.  And just on her own she could work with everything from USS to JCL with 
zERO training in ISPF or JCL or anything.  No training.  Just looking through 
docs.

I explained to her what SYSPROC meant and she got it right away...  

I still cannot believe it, but on the other hand, I it is just a machine.  

I'd love to hear Steve chime in on this, but I never thought I'd see the day 
that someone went from knowing a TSO command line's difference from UNIX, or 
batch, to ISPF so easily, just like it was, hmmm, what is the word I'm looking 
for

A computer?

...a way a lone a last a loved a long the...





-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Monday, November 26, 2012 6:24 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Etymology 101; was Parsing

Bill Fairchild wrote:

begin extract
As languages evolve, several aspects of any given word can change: the 
spelling, the pronunciation, consonantal voicing or unvoicing, vowel shifting, 
and even the meaning.
end extract

and of these the last is perhaps the most important.

Geoffrey Chaucer described himself as 'lewd', by which he meant not that he had 
a preternatural interest in things sexual but that he was not a clergyman.

Shakespeare repeatedly used the word sad to mean not sorrowful but [nearly] 
worthless, and there has been a colloquial recrudescence of this sense in 
recent years.

When I began in this business storage mean only auxiliary|backing storage.  
Main storage was memory, a usage that is certainly not obsolete and is 
preserved in acronyms like DRAM.

If you want to know what a word or phrase means|meant with any precision you 
must associate a time and a place|dialect with your query.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

don't yell at him.  it was all on me.

if I may translate from German to English to be more precise:

Deer in German is Animal, Deer in English is a particular sort of animal.
Dog in German is one of those big things, I forget.  Dog in English is that 
stupid 4 legged thing.
Hound in German is a dog, while my stupid idiotic brother-in-law keeps them in 
a pen all year until Deer season.

I only was speaking of instances in languages that go specific to general, and 
forthbackwards.  And more specifically German because we can all name a ton of 
loan words from many other languages, but very few from German to English, even 
though we are so very close.  I don't know why.

And so as not to keep you in suspense, what do you get from Finnish?

Yeah.  That hot thing.  Sauna.

But to still bring things back on topic, my initial query was, Is there 
anything so inherently better about the English language that makes it more 
useful for computer languages?   

Most kind regards,
Lindy

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Re: Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

Perhaps.  I quite often get things wrong, but this is what I thought I knew, 
and I knew once more.  

German -- English
Hund (Dog) -- Hound (Like Hound dog)
Tier (Animial) -- Deer (The un-voiced T changed to a voiced D.  Happens all 
the time. Especially in Finnish.)
Dogge (a big dog) -- Dog (general)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Roger W. Suhr
Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2012 5:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

Incorrect observation:

Hund = Dog  not hound
Tier = Animal
Reh  = Deer (male female)
Rehbock = buck (male)


Regards

Roger W Suhr



-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lindy Mayfield
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 10:20 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

I like the ones that go from specific to general and the other way round.

Hund is dog, but a specific type of animal in English.
Tier is animal, but specifically deer in English.

And another thing which is curious, given how close English and German are from 
the time they began to break apart, there are very few loan words in English 
from German.

I used to know a few, but Schadenfreude is the one I always remember.

From all other languages, we have a ton.  But German, very few.  Why?  

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

The notion that German contains no new words is incorrect.  In particular, 
English words are being introduced into German---as they are into French and 
Italian---at a very rapid rate.

Sometimes what results is an unholy mixture: both Penthouse and Penthaus are in 
current use.

More often words of ultimately Greek and Latin origin are only
naturalized: pessimism becomes Pessimismus.  Colloquial terms are not even
naturalized: junkie is Junkie.

Often, the need being addressed is not urgent.  German made do with Eskimo Hund 
for a very long time; now Husky has all but pushed it out.

These changes are particularly obtrusive for foreigners.  I have occasion to 
speak German often here in the United States, but if I return to Germany after 
an absence of only six months I often find that yet another anglicism has 
entered the language, displacing a perfectly serviceable German word.
Some of this may be happening because many Germans now speak English well.
This is the explanation most frequently advanced, but I am doubtful.

--
John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

t.

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

I know that one:

Älä vasta ja anna sen kuolla omin.

(For those who took Spanish instead of Finnish in high school:  Don't answer 
and it will die on its own.)

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of ibmmain
Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2012 7:21 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

 How does one say enough already of this thread in French, German, 
 Russian, Finnish and COBOL ?

STOP!

Barbara

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

No, not misinformed, I'm daft but that daft.  :-)

It means that I've been in shops that say they have gotten rid of all tape 
drives.  Don't even bring them a tape.

Now what does that mean?  Like your three points?  I have no idea.  But I am 
sure that it meets all criteria.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 1:47 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

In 45fcfbbb8bc8eb4a9dfedc6fa2cc7fdf2dbee...@sdkmbx02.emea.sas.com,
on 11/19/2012
   at 09:09 PM, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com said:

Paper tape is even cheaper, but I'm just being a smart a$$.  :-)

No, just misinformed. Paper tape is far more expensive per bit, and the cost 
per foot isn't relevant.

But seriously, I think that must be wrong if so many people are getting 
rid of tape drives.


What does that mean?

 1. Using a hot backup site, which costs more but get you back
up more rapidly.

 2. Using tape drives at a remote location.

 3. Getting rid of off-site backups, which is risky.

-- 
 Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz, SysProg and JOAT
 Atid/2http://patriot.net/~shmuel
We don't care. We don't have to care, we're Congress.
(S877: The Shut up and Eat Your spam act of 2003)

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Re: Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

I like the ones that go from specific to general and the other way round.

Hund is dog, but a specific type of animal in English.
Tier is animal, but specifically deer in English.

And another thing which is curious, given how close English and German are from 
the time they began to break apart, there are very few loan words in English 
from German.

I used to know a few, but Schadenfreude is the one I always remember.

From all other languages, we have a ton.  But German, very few.  Why?  

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

The notion that German contains no new words is incorrect.  In particular, 
English words are being introduced into German---as they are into French and 
Italian---at a very rapid rate.

Sometimes what results is an unholy mixture: both Penthouse and Penthaus are in 
current use.

More often words of ultimately Greek and Latin origin are only
naturalized: pessimism becomes Pessimismus.  Colloquial terms are not even 
naturalized: junkie is Junkie.

Often, the need being addressed is not urgent.  German made do with Eskimo Hund 
for a very long time; now Husky has all but pushed it out.

These changes are particularly obtrusive for foreigners.  I have occasion to 
speak German often here in the United States, but if I return to Germany after 
an absence of only six months I often find that yet another anglicism has 
entered the language, displacing a perfectly serviceable German word.  Some of 
this may be happening because many Germans now speak English well.  This is the 
explanation most frequently advanced, but I am doubtful.

--
John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

t.

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

Dammit, Janet.  I did something I didn't think I needed to do. I went through 
one Rexx exec over 3000 lines long, which isn't really so big when you count 
that I added hundreds of lines of comments.  (That was a joke.)

There wasn't anything there that couldn't be as easily as Rexx be defined by 
(Oh, I forgot the acronym and google didn't help me because I forgot it, BNC or 
something similar), but you mentioned it many times.  The extended version.  
And IMO, any language if a special design (that I cannot describe) could 
satisfy those requirements if that language is of a certain design like Rexx.  
Perl?  Maybe, but I don't write Perl. I don't like it. 

 I think that some computer languages are very easy, and some almost impossible 
to do in any other language than English, or similar enough to English than to 
make it a nit.  

My Finnish isn't yet good enough to read a  novel, but my Finnish is good 
enough to read a novel written in Finnish and translated to English.  Your 
points are very spot on.

If you simply look for an MVS operator command that may be next to impossible 
in any other language than English, then I'll try to find one in Finnish.

Kind regards
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 6:36 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

One of the translators of Tolkien into Italian is an old friend, and I have 
discussed with him some of the problems he encountered in doing so.  Between 
two Indo-European languages translation that conveys substance is always 
possible, but words must often be replaced by phrases, and this can be highly 
problematic.

Consider the character Strider.  Italian has no equivalent of the verb 'to 
stride'.  Fine, camminare a gran passi, walk in large steps, conveys the sense 
accurately.  Unfortunately, however, a character named Camminatore-a-gran-passi 
has the same connotation for an Italian as Walker-in-large-steps has for an 
American: It strongly suggests an American-Indian character.  (Italians know 
all about 'cowboys e
indiani'.)  In the end 'Strider' was left untranslated in the Italian text.

Similar problems abound in translations of Pushkin from Russian into other 
European languages.  Pushkin's texts are full of puns, deliberately contrived 
ambiguities, connotation-laden names, and the like too; and finding equivalents 
for them in another language is very difficult.  In the upshot, people who, 
since they cannot read Russian, must depend upon inadequate translations, may 
wonder why Russians regard Pushkin as the equal of Shakespeare and Dante.

Chomsky has maintained that there is little reason to suppose that translation 
is possible in general, and this is not because he does not know that it has 
been done brilliantly.  (Unfortunately, the canonical examples are Catullus's 
Latin translations of some short Greek lyrics of Sappho, which somehow manage 
to be at once literal and perfect.  It would be agreeable if they were still 
accessible to non-specialists, but they are not.)

Text translation and the translation of, say, FORTRAN into sequences of machine 
instructions have some things in common, but they are also very different.  
Semantic ambiguity has been largely banished from procedural languages, and 
their translation is thus very much simpler than the translation of, for 
example, arbitrary Russian text into English.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

People still use tapes?  Oh.  That's curious.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Sam Golob
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 7:27 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: New way to do UCB lookups


 Now for a new one.  I just wrote another program, called UCBTAPE, that I 
also put on File 731 on the Updates page of www.cbttape.org.  It was written 
using the same method of reading the UCB's.  This one is a TSO command to 
display all your online tape drives, and to tell you all the outstanding tape 
mounts.  

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

That Latin phrase Google didn't find for me.

How do you say, If all you got is a hammer, everything looks like a nail.  
The Romans must have had something similar.

:-)

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 6:11 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

I have had a curious reaction to recent developments in this thread.

Many posters apparently see virtues in not being authorized that are distinct 
from not needing to be authorized.
...

Many posters do not really know what serialization is and are quite happy in 
their ignorance.  I find this at once more surprising and more disturbing, not 
least because even minimally competent COBOL programmers need to know about it.

Still, we all have our own preoccupations:

 Navitra de ventis, de tauris narrat arator,  Enumerat miles vulnera, pastor 
oves.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

I never asked how they do those things, just when a few years ago I learned 
that all tapes were gone I thought, oh, cool.  

But, thinking about it, I have never seen, for example, a z/OS level more than 
two below the latest one.  My latest customer went to 1.13 a month ago.  It is 
just, I guess, a Finnish thing.  :-)

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of McKown, John
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:03 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

I assume the companies without tapes do off-site replication of their disk 
arrays for disaster recovery and on-line (error) recovery? We would like to do 
that. But 3952 tape and storage fees cost less than the duplicated disk array 
plus telecommunications fees would. 


--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
 On Behalf Of Lindy Mayfield
 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 1:57 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups
 
 No mainframe shop that I know of in Finland has had tape drives for 
 some years.  I thought they went the way of card readers and paper 
 tape already.
 
 -Original Message-
 From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] 
 On Behalf Of Steve Conway
 Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 4:48 PM
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups
 
 Why is that curious?
 
 Steven F. Conway, CISSP
 LA Systems
 z/OS Systems Support
 Phone: 703.295.1926
 steve_con...@ao.uscourts.gov
 
 
 
 From:   Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com
 To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
 Date:   11/19/2012 09:44 AM
 Subject:Re: New way to do UCB lookups
 Sent by:IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-
 m...@listserv.ua.edu
 
 
 
 People still use tapes?  Oh.  That's curious.
 
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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

What is so bad about that?  When all you have is a hammer, AND you are a 
carpenter, etc...

You chastised us, then told us in Latin it was ok.  :-) 

(Well, not me you didn't.  If I needed to know it, I'd learn it. Here I am just 
curious.)

Anyway, if I am a seaman, why would I care how many sheep you have unless I am 
eating them on the way to far-away lands.  :-)

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:46 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

Navita (sic) . . .

The seaman recalls his winds; the plowman remembers his bulls; the soldier 
enumerates his wounds; the shepherd lists his sheep.

Propertius, Elegies II.i.43

--jg

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Re: Strange thought - ADRDSSU output to a UNIX pipe.

[Lindy Mayfield]

You are cool, John.   

Finland is a small country, but a few of the customers that I know well enough 
in other places in Europe use them only for legacy purposes.  Which was why I 
had to ask a few other questions when my Finnish customers said they didn't 
have any.  At all.  Nada.  :-)  But how do you?  Internet, they said.  
Internet.

When Sam mentioned actually creating code that assumed that tape drives still 
existed, I though, that's funny.  But that is just me.  I don't think badly of 
people who still have tape drives and have no internets.  Like Mr. Gilmore 
said, ... the shepherd lists his sheep, and the tape robot lists his 
cartridges.  

Better for me.  Last time, 4 or 5  years ago, that I had to take tapes to one 
of my customers I left them in my car overnight.  In winter.  In Finland.  That 
didn't bode well.  Whoops.  :-)

I'm so good as Mr. Gilmore, but I can try:  Mulier cupido quod dicit amanti, In 
vento et rapida scribere oportet aqua

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of McKown, John
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Strange thought - ADRDSSU output to a UNIX pipe.

With compression, I could literally back up the company's entire mainframe 
environment (we're small) onto my home PC's eSATA drive. With room to spare. 
Yes, I realize that my home disk is not generally rated as reliable as the 
enterprise disk. But what about SSD instead of physical tape?

Have I been into the holiday cheer too early this year?

--
John McKown
Systems Engineer IV
IT

Administrative Services Group

HealthMarkets(r)

9151 Boulevard 26 * N. Richland Hills * TX 76010
(817) 255-3225 phone *
john.mck...@healthmarkets.com * www.HealthMarkets.com

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

Paper tape is even cheaper, but I'm just being a smart a$$.  :-)

But seriously, I think that must be wrong if so many people are getting rid of 
tape drives.  But honestly, I haven't a clue about this stuff at all other than 
just thinking about it and reading posts.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 10:48 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

In 45fcfbbb8bc8eb4a9dfedc6fa2cc7fdf2dbee...@sdkmbx02.emea.sas.com,
on 11/19/2012
   at 02:44 PM, Lindy Mayfield lindy.mayfi...@sas.com said:

People still use tapes?

It's an inexpensive way to create media for backup.

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

Mr. Gilmore, yes, thanks for taking the time to respond to my musings.

You give me the impression (albeit possibly falsely in my mind) that  you are 
correct, when you are simply being exact.  I was a DBA in D.C. government for 
the Y2K, and we, and I knew all the DB2 rules.  But I also knew what batch jobs 
were running, and when, and doing what, reading, updating, etc.  I also knew 
when I took down the CICS systems.  We were stressed for time, and I let a lot 
of things slide because that was how the batch jobs were designed.  Like I 
said, because I knew what was going on.

Now.  Was that optimal, even good?  At the time, yes.  But god help them if 
after I left they deviated from it all. If they left an online system up and 
running when it shouldn't be.  I certainly took my consultant pay, did whatever 
I had to do, and left when they told me to leave.  

You seem to be saying what everyone else is saying:  This is how it should be 
done, but in some cases (like an Rexx exec), it is ok.  This thread is fun, but 
seems to me in their own way everyone pretty much agrees with everyone else.  
:-)

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

Lindy,

The point Propertius---and I, derivatively---was making was that how people 
think about their problems, the kinds of questions they ask, etc., etc, are 
shaped by what they do.

We are all creatures of our experience; and that experience is different for 
each of us.

What this thread established once again was that we often talk at cross 
purposes here because we are so different, see the world refracted through so 
many different epistemes.  There is, I am sure, a place for non-reentrant, 
unserialized code in some universe of
discourse, but not in mine.   My objections to it are intellectual
certainly, but they are also visceral.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

My Pooh can kick your Propertius' butt:

When you are a Bear of Very Little Brain, and you Think of Things, you find 
sometimes that a Thing which seemed very Thingish inside you is quite different 
when it gets out into the open and has other people looking at it.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Monday, November 19, 2012 11:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

Lindy,

The point Propertius---and I, derivatively---was making was that how people 
think about their problems, the kinds of questions they ask, etc., etc, are 
shaped by what they do.

We are all creatures of our experience; and that experience is different for 
each of us.

What this thread established once again was that we often talk at cross 
purposes here because we are so different, see the world refracted through so 
many different epistemes.  There is, I am sure, a place for non-reentrant, 
unserialized code in some universe of
discourse, but not in mine.   My objections to it are intellectual
certainly, but they are also visceral.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Parsing (was: New way to do UCB lookups)

[Lindy Mayfield]

this isn't a complete illustrative example of what you refer to, but even still 
in some languages this is still today a certain extent true.  some finnish 
words have all sorts of grammar built into them, yet are still considered one 
word:
 
ikä = age
ikävä = miss (you), too bad
ikävystyä = to miss someone, be bored
ikävystyneisyys = boredom
ikävystyneisyydessä = in boredom
ikävystynesyydessäänkään = not even in his boredeom ...

that is for me a funny example, but not at all extreme.  German has a lot of 
compound words that have no spaces.  Finnish, too.  My example was a single 
word but I could have made it longer by compounding it.  

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Fairchild
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 12:44 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing (was: New way to do UCB lookups)

Typically in modern languages the vowel points, diacritic markings, syllabic 
stress markers, etc., are only used in printed works that are used by beginning 
learners of those languages.  Being a beginning learner in Greek once again 
(and this time no drop-out), I have happily discovered that modern Greek texts 
atypically have syllabic stress markers in each word.

My Latin teacher told me the same thing 50+ years ago - that punctuation, 
inter-word spacing, capitalization, etc., were never necessary until people 
stopped thinking.  Delving into other languages is a good way to expand one's 
horizons and diminish one's provinciality.  Like anything else we learn to do, 
I would wager that reading and writing in any language without punctuation, 
capitalization, and spacing would get much easier after the first few thousand 
hours of practice.  :-)

Bill Fairchild
Programmer
Rocket Software
408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA
t: +1.617.614.4503 *  e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: 
www.rocketsoftware.com

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Re: Parsing

[Lindy Mayfield]

Those are very interesting examples.  Though, when I brought this up I wasn't 
talking about parsing, but people who commented that some human languages 
really don't need spaces.  (I think that is what was said.)

So I mentioned that in fact reading long words that contain elements of grammar 
and lots of endings, as well as compound words is in a way similar.  

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2012 5:09 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Parsing

If a blank is the token delimiter arbitrarily long tokens are possible even in 
such a romance language as Italian.  I recently wrote a check on my Italian 
bank account for duemilanovecentoquarantadue (2942) euros.  This twenty-seven 
character construct is longer than such often cited German words as 
Eisenbahnknotenpunkt, railroad junction,
20 characters, or Wahrscheinlichtkeitslehre, probability theory, 25 characters.

Parsing such Italian quantities is not, however, at all difficult.  I routinely 
pose the problems of obtaining, say, centotrentadue from 132 and 132 from 
centotrentadue to students, and they routinely produce PL/I procedures that 
perform these two operations with great generality.

Gerhard of course understands these issues very well.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

May I infer, then, that you are talking about serious issues where the 
program better get it right the first time, especially when updating these 
control blocks (1) that are being discussed at the moment.  And simple 
interfaces to storage, such as Rexx  need have different requirements, thus 
because of simple functions to read storage be exempt from this discussion?  I 
mean, that's all there is that programs like Rexx have, and they need live with 
it, yet at the same time understand discussions such as these.

Kind regards
Lindy

(1)  Who can update these control blocks?  I think from reading this only z/OS 
can.  (or should, you guys do what you want, seems like, then justify it like I 
just did.)


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2012 8:41 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

Lindy,

I have received several private, offlist requests for elucidations of the same 
sort you make.

I suggest that you read the descriptions of the ENQ and DEQ macros in

z/OS MVS: Assembler Services Reference, Volume 1 (ABEND-HSPSERV), SA22-7606.

Some of the computer science literature talks instead about serialization and 
semaphores (Dijkstra's term, a metaphoric hijacking of the European word for 
what Americans usually call 'traffic lights').

Also worth looking at are the discussions of the Test and Set (TS) instruction 
and its more powerful brethren, the most recent of which is Perform Locked 
Operation (PLO),  in z/Architecture Principles of Operation, SA22-7832.

These notions are important ones.  What needs to be emphasized about them is 
that they all make use of a mixture of conventions and hardware help.  If you 
and I and others agree to adhere to a set of such conventions, then we can 
safely share access to serially reusable resources.  If not, not.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: New way to do UCB lookups

[Lindy Mayfield]

I don't quite  understand this thread, but I find it interesting in that I'd 
like to understand it.

Are you saying, that you can put some sort of lock on a control block, so 
that when you update it, you know that nobody else has updated it?

I am not sure if this is apples and giraffes, but I wrote a Rexx exec and ISPF 
panel to show ASCB and related control blocks for a given job that shows all 
about timeouts.

I hit the enter, and my Rexx and ISPF fields change accordingly.

Sometimes I hit enter and see weird garbage in there.  No matter.  I just hit 
enter again and all is well.  I assume the garbage in some of the fields is due 
to the control blocks being in some unknown state.

But if I hit enter and see, for example, 5 things, and somebody updates and 
adds one or takes one away, then when I hit enter again, I'll see the updated 
list.  I see how long I have to wait for a 522, or I see that the job is exempt 
from timeout.  That won't change.  If someone adds something new just a 
millisecond from when I look for it, how is that different from updating a 
database table?  You might say to lock it for update.  I may say that I want to 
read the row, then lock it and update it just if it is has changed.  In that 
case I know if it has changed.  

I'm not trying to be smart, I only want to understand what is the real issue.  
The only thing I can think of is that if multiple control blocks are chained 
together, or somehow are related, that I don't want to read one while the other 
is updated.  

Can I read these control blocks with Rexx?  If so, maybe I'll give it a go when 
I have some free moments.

Kind regards,
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of John Gilmore
Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2012 11:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: New way to do UCB lookups

Jim Mulder's point is very well taken indeed.

Traversing a dynamic list without serialization on the assumption that since 
you do not plan to change  it no one else will is a mug's game.

John Gilmore, Ashland, MA 01721 - USA

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Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

[Lindy Mayfield]

I'm quite surprised you asked that.  

There is a lot of information that isn't stored in IBM manuals, at least in a 
form that is easy to find.  Otherwise, Carmine's book could have been a list of 
links to the IBM docs.  Or a CD ROM that with code from CBT.

CBT doesn't contain code snippets that, for example, say how to convert a Rexx 
date to a Julian date.  Another reason Carmine's book is very popular.

Why does x' 0D286880' in the SWTL mean a job is exempt from timeout?  That was 
discussed here, but I never found it documented.  So what then will cause 
disable a timeout?
There are three values any one of which can disable 522 timeouts:
 1) The ASCBTOFF bit in the ASCBRCTF is set  
 2) The SWTL contains the magic number x'0D286880'   
 3) The JSTL is 86400 seconds (Equivalent to TIME=1440 on Job card)  

If that is documented somewhere, I never found it, either.

If someone (say me for example) happened to start a thread on a mainframe 
group, and it was worthy, it would help me tremendously to type it into a wiki. 
 I started a thread some years back on writing a Rexx function to run 
authorized code.  It wasn't so simple that someone just pasted me a link to the 
doc and said RTFM.  Now I have that information, but anyone else who wanted to 
do that would have to either figure it out for themselves, or get lucky and 
find that there was a thread about it on IBM-MAIN, then read through all the 
posts, some of which were just noise.

I spent a lot of time going through Rexx books and came up with a crude picture 
like this, just for me.  What if I put it into a wiki?  Then someone looked at 
it and said, yes, but it could be could be better if... and so on.
http://lilliana.eu/downloads/RexxControlBlocks.pdf


IMHO, that is what sorts of information that would be helpful.  If someone said 
there needs to be a new list server, I don't see how that could help at all.  
A list server simply manages mailing lists, but has little to do with the 
content (other than a moderator).

BR; Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Fairchild
Sent: Tuesday, October 30, 2012 2:52 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

How would this proposed data base, new list server, or whatever it may become, 
differ from the CBT tape?

Bill Fairchild
Programmer
Rocket Software
408 Chamberlain Park Lane * Franklin, TN 37069-2526 * USA
t: +1.617.614.4503 *  e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com * w: 
www.rocketsoftware.com

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Re: The future of MFNetDisk

[Lindy Mayfield]

I certainly hope you have plans to develop something else, something new!  I 
cannot wait to see what you come up with if you do decide.

Kind regards
Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of shai hess
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 8:16 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Fwd: The future of MFNetDisk

**
HI,

MFNetDisk have good success in MF market. The problem is that the people who 
used MFNetDisk are small companies who could not pay money for the product 
(poor customers) or people of big companies who enjoy using
(playing) this product in home or office but could not offer it to their big 
companies because of all known reasons.


So, after thinking a lot about the future of the product I decide to offer the 
product for sale from now on and to stop support the product but only for 
evaluation of the product for serious customers.

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Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

[Lindy Mayfield]

A few years ago I asked a question similar to this, about having a site where 
people collected information in a structured way, expanding on, for example, 
answers to problems on this and other lists.

It didn't go over well.  One guy in particular, who will be dead soon, said his 
information isn't for free.  (But he didn't mind dribbling it out in little 
bits to lists like this.)

Oh well.

Still, I'd definitely support any such effort.  

Regards
Lindy

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Fairchild [bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com]
Sent: 29 October 2012 18:34
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

Some kinds of copyrights can be renewed by the owner(s).

Bill Fairchild
Programmer
Rocket Software
408 Chamberlain Park Lane • Franklin, TN 37069-2526 • USA
t: +1.617.614.4503 •  e: bfairch...@rocketsoftware.com • w: 
www.rocketsoftware.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of scott
Sent: Monday, October 29, 2012 11:27 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

On 10/29/2012 10:26 AM, Steve Comstock wrote:
 On 10/29/2012 8:23 AM, scott wrote:
 On 10/25/2012 07:35 PM, Lindy Mayfield wrote:
 I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on
 it.  But still I wouldn't give/sell it.  I only paid about $50 for
 it from a used book place, I forget where.  It was about 6 years
 ago.

 It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for
 example.

 Lindy

 A possibility:  Have someone scan the book and place it on the web.
 Then ask the
 mainframe community to have them update the book with new information
 and add information.  As to who can do so is selected by the
 population as to have the best new chapter of the book.

 Just a thought...



 Ummm. There are copyright laws, ya' know.


Do they not expire after 25 years?

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Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

[Lindy Mayfield]

This person didn't say it was his property.  He said that he wouldn't give his 
knowledge away for free.  In other words, he would rather take it to the coffin 
than participate in any sort of joint effort to collect information from (my 
words) the old timers.  

I would have zero problem with taking information from lists, rewording it, and 
putting it in a wiki.  

Lindy

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Mike Schwab [mike.a.sch...@gmail.com]
Sent: 29 October 2012 19:44
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost
 I just don't see how anybody could assert a copyright claim on them (thinking 
about Lindy's response about one person who considers his knowledge to be his 
property).
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Re: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

[Lindy Mayfield]

I fell asleep reading mine, and at the same time spilt red wine on it.  But 
still I wouldn't give/sell it.  I only paid about $50 for it from a used book 
place, I forget where.  It was about 6 years ago.

It would be totally cool if he updated it with PC routines, for example.

Lindy

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Lizette Koehler
Sent: Monday, October 22, 2012 8:25 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Correction to Carmine's Book Cost

I regret I made an error when I quoted the cost of the Carmine book.  So here 
is a quick table of costs.  All numbers are in USD unless specified as CANADA)


ChaptersNew  Usually ships in 1 to 4 weeks   116.84 
(Canada) 
Amazon.ca (Marketplace) Used Ready to ship   113.33 
(Canada) 
Amazon (Marketplace)Used Ready to ship   495.00  
Alibris Used Ready to ship   505.00 
AbeBooksUsed Ships in 2 days 505.00 
Textbooks.com (Marketplace) Used In stock and ready to ship  505.00 
BN Marketplace Used Usually ships in 24 hours   505.00 
ValoreBooks.com Used Usually ships in 2 days 556.80 


And those of you who gave it away - be sad - be very sad.

Lizette

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Re: ISPF Panel and LPAR name

[Lindy Mayfield]

Doug Nadel has an edit macro called BATCHPDF which will create the DD names for 
running ISPF in batch.  I like it and use it, at least to get me started.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of CM Poncelet
Sent: Monday, August 20, 2012 4:02 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: ISPF Panel and LPAR name

Gosh.

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Re: [z390] Anyone want Source code listing of last VSE program product Supervisor?

[Lindy Mayfield]

Books I've bought from the UK say this in the front.  Seems a bit strict, but 
is this the same thing?


This book is sold subject to the condition that it shall not, by way of trade 
or
otherwise, be lent, re-sold, hired out or otherwise circulated without the 
publisher's
prior consent in any form of binding or cover other than that in which it is 
published
and without a similar condition including this condition being imposed on the
subsequent purchaser.


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Gerhard Adam
Sent: Saturday, August 04, 2012 12:49 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: [z390] Anyone want Source code listing of last VSE program product 
Supervisor?

.Copyright applies to any creative work (creative in a fairly broad 
sense
of
 the word).

 The listing is undoubtedly licensed material of IBM, and would 
 undoubtedly be subject to copyright.

No one is disputing the copyright, nor the copyright holder.  There's no 
attempt here to capitalize on the copyrighted work nor to profit from its use.  
Copyright protection does not preclude redistributing the information or 
sharing it with someone else.  The copyright isn't being threatened and a 
copyright is not a license.

A book is copyrighted, but I can easily sell it, without violating copyright 
laws because that is how books are used.  This is precisely what happens when 
one downloads a PDF from the IBM web-site.  It is certainly copyrighted 
material, but it is not a copyright violation to send a copy of it in an e-mail 
to someone else.  The information has been made publicly available, so the 
ideas are copyrighted, but not the physical distribution media itself.

The listing was made freely available [as was the source code] without any 
apparent separate agreement, so the hardcopy doesn't involve any particular 
licensing issues.  Simply having a printed copy does not violate any copyright 
laws unless that is expressly indicated in the terms and conditions, again this 
is unlikely.

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Re: Friday: What you've been waiting for! Build an 80 column punched card reader!

[Lindy Mayfield]

For me, punched card isn't quite as easy to pronounce as punch card, but I 
have some difficulties saying iced tea.  Perhaps ice' tea would be more a 
more accurate representation.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Shmuel Metz (Seymour J.)
Sent: Monday, July 30, 2012 5:03 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Friday: What you've been waiting for! Build an 80 column punched 
card reader!

Hard as it may be to do so, let's also try to avoid 'punch card', using 
'punched card' instead.

Why? It is a card that you can punch holes in, but it is not punched when you 
initially take it out of the box.

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