> reverse the trend of the Anthropocene. Maybe we can hope that human or
> posthuman survivors of the ongoing degradation of the planet will learn
> something from whatever is left of semiotic science.
>
>
>
> Love, gary
>
> Coming from the ancestral lands of the Anishinaa
/gnusystems.ca/wp/ }{
<https://gnusystems.ca/TS/> Turning Signs
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu On
Behalf Of Gary Richmond
Sent: Saturday, April 27, 2024 6:10 PM
To: g...@gnusystems.ca
Cc: peirce-l@list.iupui.edu
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] the logic of vagueness
[Note: I'd like to
is now at
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should go to pei
babilistic inferences based on hypotheses and inductions, but also that
there is also no theory independent of the practices that inform it.
Appreciative regards, Martin Kettelhut
____
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on
behalf of Gary Richmond
Sent: Saturday, Apri
olic utterance is a fully determinate
> singular, the sign itself is still ‘indefinite as to its Interpretant’ (as
> explained above). ‘No communication of one person to another can be
> entirely definite, i.e., non-vague’ (CP 5.506).
>
> ________
>
>
CE GATEWAY is now at
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Gary was not on your recipient list but you obviously intended for him to
receive it. Peirce-l doesn't receive your messages, at least for the time
being. - Ben
On 4/22/2024 3:53 PM, John F Sowa wrote:
Gary and Ben,
Why do you insist on punishing me instead of Jon? Or both?
You asked me
erance is a fully determinate
> singular, the sign itself is still ‘indefinite as to its Interpretant’ (as
> explained above). ‘No communication of one person to another can be
> entirely definite, i.e., non-vague’ (CP 5.506).
>
>
>
> Love, gar
WAY is now at
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> John
>
>
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> links!
> ► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply List" or "Rep
ems.ca/wp/ }{ Turning Signs <https://gnusystems.ca/TS/>
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIR
-- that it would seem to me that
Peirce-L members now (and perhaps for some time now) have enough
information in the form of argumentation and accompanying textual (and
other) support to make up their own minds as to who has made the stronger
case, John for 'mark' or Jon for 'tone'. Or perhaps it still
List,
As Edwina accurately commented a few days ago, this exchange between John
and Jon has become less a discussion and more a debate, so much so that I
have commented -- now for the third time -- that it would seem to me that
Peirce-L members now (and perhaps for some time now) have enough
Peirce's work to the 21st C are a more
important topic for most subscribers to P-List.
John
Jappy_Tables.pdf
Description: Adobe PDF document
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harp distinction.
Best regards, Helmut
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be sounds is a poor choice. The fact that Peirce himself vacillated
> on this choice indicates he was not completely satisfied. His choice of
> 'mark' is more consistent with his definition in Baldwin's dictionary and
> other English dictionaries. We acknowledge that the definition of the word
>
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better at any time) on this
topic.
To reinforce Peirce's claims, I have also added explanations based on
traditional usage in geometry from the Greeks to the present. Benjamin taught
Charles those topics from a very early age.
My primary concern is that you and Jon have made claims abut Peirce without
showing any
for pragmatic work of symbolic agency?
Cheers
Jerry
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ally, from a philosophical point of view, when and how will such
terminology generate the agency need for pragmatic work of symbolic agency?
Cheers
Jerry
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einforce Peirce's claims, I have also added explanations based on
> traditional usage in geometry from the Greeks to the present. Benjamin
> taught Charles those topics from a very early age.
>
> My primary concern is that you and Jon have made claims abut Peirce
> without showing any just
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n Schmidt
wrote:
> Gary, List:
>
> Needless to say, I strongly agree. I would like to revisit what John Sowa
> quoted from Peirce in an attempt to support his claim that "'mark' is the
> best word for both the might-be and the actual" (
> https://list.iupui.edu/
Gary, List:
Needless to say, I strongly agree. I would like to revisit what John Sowa
quoted from Peirce in an attempt to support his claim that "'mark' is the
best word for both the might-be and the actual" (
https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2024-04/msg00095.html).
CSP: A
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´t mean, that between parallel classes (such as icon, index, symbol) there is a gradient instead of a sharp distinction.
Best regards, Helmut
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with UN
right -- no discussion
needed, your seemingly claiming to be the final arbiter in all Peircean
terminological matters -- itself "has no redeeming social or academic
value whatsoever." And certainly it is not a collegial stance to take on
Peirce-L. "Get rid of it."
Best,
Gary
t; Any visible form which, if it were scribed on the phemic sheet would be an
> assertion is called a graph. If it actually be so scribed, it would be
> incorrect to say that the graph itself is put upon the sheet. For that
> would be an impossibility, since the graph itself [is] a mere
).
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hat between parallel classes (such as icon, index, symbol) there is a gradient instead of a sharp distinction.
Best regards, Helmut
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s well, at
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l
> classes (such as icon, index, symbol) there is a gradient instead of a
> sharp distinction.
>
> Best regards, Helmut
>
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termination, I´d say, is "if-then", from the "then" to the "if". I added this, because I think, a certain kind of manifestation of the categories is composition (1ns), determination (2ns), and classification (3ns).
Best regards
Helmut
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ ARISBE: THE P
eighed the arguments and still feels that
his argumentation is superior, well, that is that.
So, as I began the paragraph above, *all *of this is merely 'my opinion'.
Again, I expect Peirce-L members will make up their own minds on the
matter. In my thinking, it's really quite simple: either "mark"
elming majority of professional philosophers know very little
> about the fine points of Peirce's semeiotic, it's a good idea to choose
> terms that they are capable of remembering and using correctly.
>
> John
>
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;. So, betweeen classes,
>> there are precise boundaries. Otherwise it would be "or", which as I think
>> is composition. BTW, determination, I´d say, is "if-then", from the "then"
>> to the "if". I added this, because I think, a certain ki
cause I think, a certain kind of manifestation
> of the categories is composition (1ns), determination (2ns), and
> classification (3ns).
>
> Best regards
> Helmut
>
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the "if". I added this, because I think, a certain kind of manifestation of the categories is composition (1ns), determination (2ns), and classification (3ns).
Best regards
Helmut
Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. April 2024 um 03:21 Uhr
Von: "John F Sowa"
An: "Edwina Ta
hink, a certain kind of manifestation of the categories is composition (1ns), determination (2ns), and classification (3ns).
Best regards
Helmut
Gesendet: Sonntag, 14. April 2024 um 03:21 Uhr
Von: "John F Sowa"
An: "Edwina Taborsky" , "Jon Alan Schmidt"
Cc: &q
ately, when the terminology of modern
>> research fields is used instead, it is not always clear that those different
>> terms really have the same meanings as Peirce's terms. Consequently, it can
>> be inaccurate or at least misleading to describe the resulting framework as
&
2:488, 1908 Dec 25).
Regards,
Jon Alan Schmidt -
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evertheless be useful to look at different subsets. I have done so in a
recent post (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2024-04/msg00015.html)
for the three interpretant trichotomies because I find the ten classes that
result from arranging them as final/dynamical/immediate to be more
plausible
semeiotic'. Until 1902, he used 'logic' as a synonym for the
>>> symbolic logic of Boole and his followers (of which he was one). Instead,
>>> he chose the usage for the title of books, such as Whateley's. I believe
>>> that Peirce made a serious mistake, and Fisch (in his 1986 book)
the practice of taking the advice of an expert in a field for choosing
> terminology for that field. I recommend that practice.
>
> John
>
>
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explains his move from nominalism to
realism.
Another place where Peirce discusses the term is in “A Description of a
Notation for the Logic of Relatives.” I find that fascinating and can quote
from it later.
Overall, I hope we can put the Peirce-L into the 21st century.
Best,
Mary Libertin
>
. For example, this is precisely what Claudio
> Guerri is doing in the semiotics of urban ecology, art, architecture and
> design.
>
> It is true that, in what I consider one of the darkest periods of Peirce-L,
> there was a heated exchange of off List emails in May 2021 i
, architecture and
> design.
>
> It is true that, in what I consider one of the darkest periods of Peirce-L,
> there was a heated exchange of off List emails in May 2021 involving several
> forum members including both of us, Jon and John, and several others.
> Unpleas
. For example, this is precisely what
Claudio Guerri is doing in the semiotics of urban ecology, art,
architecture and design.
It is true that, in what I consider one of the darkest periods of Peirce-L,
there was a heated exchange of off List emails in May 2021 involving
several forum members including
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t;> rigorous insistence on the importance of terminology has anything to do with
>> nominalism. Please explain how it does. And please also include your
>> definition of nominalism.
>>
>> And do you disagree that using different terminology can correlate with
>&
n the List
referring to you as a "pseudo-Peircean," something which would indeed
constitute unacceptable 'name calling' on Peirce-L. However, today you
suggested that some on this list are "Purists" which, had that expression been
directed at particular List participants would
orrelate with
> having different concepts?
>
> Further, if my memory isn't too diminished, I don't recall anyone on the List
> referring to you as a "pseudo-Peircean," something which would indeed
> constitute unacceptable 'name calling' on Peirce-L. However, today
; John
>
>
>
> ------
> *From*: "Jon Alan Schmidt"
> *Sent*: 4/12/24 1:18 PM
> *To*: Peirce-L
> *Cc*: Ahti Pietarinen , Francesco Bellucci <
> bellucci.france...@googlemail.com>, Anthony Jappy ,
> "Houser, Nathan R."
>
different terminology can correlate with
having different concepts?
Further, if my memory isn't too diminished, I don't recall anyone on the
List referring to you as a "pseudo-Peircean," something which would indeed
constitute unacceptable 'name calling' on Peirce-L. However, today
*you*
peal to authority. On the contrary, as I have said before, his is
the only authority that matters in such a context. As someone once said,
"Anything other than an exact quotation is the opinion of the author. Nobody
can claim that his or her ideas are what Peirce intended"
(https://li
Dear Claudio,
This is exciting news indeed, and in an area of semiotics which I know
holds considerable interest to at least several members of the Peirce-L
forum including me.
Thank you for all the excellent work you have done and continue to do in
the Peircean semiotics -- including his three
of agreement, I won't say
anything more.
John
From: "Jon Alan Schmidt"
Sent: 4/12/24 1:18 PM
To: Peirce-L
Cc: Ahti Pietarinen , Francesco Bellucci
, Anthony Jappy ,
"Houser, Nathan R."
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Mark Token Type
R
thematics ; PhD Philosophy
> fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marty
> *https://martyrobert.academia.edu/ <https://martyrobert.academia.edu/>*
>
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is also the only one that was published during his
>>> lifetime (CP 4.537, 1906)--the others appear in Logic Notebook entries and
>>> the December 1908 letters to Lady Welby, with "mark" and "potisign" found
>>> solely in the latter, although she subse
.537, 1906)--the others appear in Logic Notebook entries and
>> the December 1908 letters to Lady Welby, with "mark" and "potisign" found
>> solely in the latter, although she subsequently endorsed "tone." As someone
>> once said, "She had a solid
one once said, "She had a solid intuitive way of explaining
> principles that he tended to explain in ways that were more abstract and
> difficult to understand. Her influence enabled him to find simpler and more
> convincing explanations for his abstract ideas" (
> https
dy Welby, with "mark" and "potisign" found
solely in the latter, although *she *subsequently endorsed "tone." As
someone once said, "She had a solid intuitive way of explaining principles
that he tended to explain in ways that were more abstract and difficult to
u
aid, "Anything other than an exact quotation is the opinion
of the author. Nobody can claim that his or her ideas are what Peirce
intended" (https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2024-02/msg00085.html).
JFS: The English words 'tone', 'tinge', 'tuone', and 'potisign' are *terms *in
exac
se of
'tone' for that "merely possible" sign. Mark my words!
Furthermore, I have found Jon more than willing to learn from his disagreements
with others on the List. For example, in several of his papers he has expressed
appreciation for the engagement with several Peirce-L members with who
irce's speculative grammar almost certainly misunderstands the word "mark"
when it is used for a possible sign, the counterpart of an existent "token" and
a necessitant "type." For example, as a candidate to replace "tone," "tuone,"
"tinge," an
ling to learn from his
disagreements with others on the List. For example, in several of his
papers he has expressed appreciation for the engagement with* several*
Peirce-L members with whom he has 'contended' on the List, including John.
And despite John's claim that having read Jon's post prior to this most
ot;token" and a *necessitant *"type." For example, as a candidate to replace
"tone," "tuone," "tinge," and "potisign," it is definitely *not *"that part
of an image that determines it as a token of some type" (
https://list.iupui.e
event, it is not for you to
determine. After all, this is Peirce-L, not Sowa-L, nor Schmidt-L nor, for that
matter, Richmond-L, but Peirce-L. Still, I must agree with you that the
arguments for 'mark' and 'tone' have been fairly fully laid out and List
members can decide for themselves whi
and Graham Hitch
were psychologists and not neuroscientists.
Alden
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PEIRCE-L to this message. PEIRCE-L posts should
inition in Baldwin's dictionary, and much, much easier to
explain to intelligent listeners and readers who are not Peirce scholars.
Please review my last post, especially the exact quotations that I provided
(https://list.iupui.edu/sympa/arc/peirce-l/2024-04/msg00043.html). In
Baldwin's dictionary,
this topic.
GR: Perhaps not; we shall see. But in any event, it is not for you to
determine. After all, this is Peirce-L, not Sowa-L, nor Schmidt-L nor, for
that matter, Richmond-L, but Peirce-L. Still, I must agree with you that
the arguments for 'mark' and 'tone' have been fairly fully laid out a
demic blog: Utopian Realism <http://UtopianRealism.blogspot.com>
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Gamma, the 1903
version was quickly cobbled together for the Lowell lectures. Peirce used
metalanguage for specifying modality and a version of higher-order logic in
1903.
But he made a major revolution for his Delta graphs of 1911.
There is much more to say.
John
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
ARISB
each
> their fully complete specification until the June 1911 for Alpha and Beta.
> For Gamma, the 1903 version was quickly cobbled together for the Lowell
> lectures. Peirce used metalanguage for specifying modality and a version
> of higher-order logic in 1903.
>
> B
From: "Jeffrey Brian Downard"
Sent: 4/8/24 12:35 AM
To: "Michael J.J. Tiffany" ,
"s...@bestweb.net"
Cc: Peirce List
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Zoom lecture on the CSP's role in philosophy of science
(U Pitt)
Hello Michael and John,
Nice to hear fr
e and to propose the ideas for solutions.
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Flagstaff, AZ
Philosophy, NAU
From: peirce-l-requ...@list.iupui.edu on
behalf of Michael J.J. Tiffany
Date: Sunday, April 7, 2024 at 10:57 AM
To: s...@bestweb.net
Cc: Peirce List
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Zoom lecture on the CSP's role in philosophy of science
(U Pitt)
John, List:
I agree
to say.
John
----
From: "Jon Alan Schmidt"
Sent: 4/7/24 6:27 PM
To: Peirce-L
Cc: Ahti Pietarinen , Francesco Bellucci
Subject: Re: [PEIRCE-L] Mark Token Type
John, List:
JFS: A tone or mark is not "opposed to a token". It is that p
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>
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your thoughts are equally welcomed.
Cheers
Jerry
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ot;.
>
> Fisch is certainly a respectable authority on the subject, and I believe
> that we should follow his example in choosing which of Peirce's options to
> consider as a standard for the 21st C..
>
> John
>
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ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now a
Peirce's
system in the 21st C, (Mark Token Type) is the recommended choice.
John
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ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
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ic point: Peirce was writing for the future. Those of us who value his
>> contributions should emphasize his contributions to his future, which is our
>> present.
>>
>> John
>>
>>
>> Sent: 4/7/24 10:36 AM
>> To: John Sowa mailto:s...@bestweb
ent.
>
> John
>
>
> --
> *Sent*: 4/7/24 10:36 AM
> *To*: John Sowa
> *Subject*: FW: [PEIRCE-L] Zoom lecture on the CSP's role in philosophy of
> science (U Pitt)
>
> John,
>
> I harbor a suspicion, perhaps more like a fantasy,
emphasize his contributions to his future, which is our
present.
John
Sent: 4/7/24 10:36 AM
To: John Sowa
Subject: FW: [PEIRCE-L] Zoom lecture on the CSP's role in philosophy of science
(U Pitt)
John,
I harbor a suspicion, perhaps more like a fantasy, that had
s. We're almost halfway there, and we
need to heat up the discussions.
John
From: "Jerry LR Chandler"
Subject: [PEIRCE-L] Zoom lecture on the CSP's role in philosophy of science (U
Pitt)
FYI
JLRC
Friday, April 12th @ 12:00 pm - 1:30 p
marginalization of Peirce in mainstream philosophy of science.
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ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
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► PEIRCE-L subscribers: Click on "Reply
t of today, I outlined what I consider to be the function of the FI -
> and note that it is not always part of the semiosic action.
>
> Edwina
>
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ARISBE: THE PEIRCE GATEWAY is now at
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; www.LinkedIn.com/in/JonAlanSchmidt / twitter.com/JonAlanSchmidt
>
> On Wed, Apr 3, 2024 at 8:14 PM John F Sowa wrote:
>
> Jon,
>
> I forgot to thank you for including the link to Peirce's definition of
> 'mark':
>
> Peirce presents in his entry for it in Baldwin's *Dic
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