Tony
See below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 10:32 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
...and while many of those bugs were in fact addressed and fixed,
Hi Jami,
See comments scattered below...
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 1:33 AM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
Tony
See below,
JaMi
-
On 02:48 AM 10/09/2002 -0700, Tony Karavidas said:
Hi Jami,
..snip..
Please remember that long before I joined this forum, you,
and many of the other major players here have had a very long
time to relate to Altium and motivate them with that
personal connection, and we are still at SP6,
Hello all,
I haven't looked in great depth at this, so draw your own conclusions:
http://www.autotraxeda.com/
Interesting, no?
Steve.
* Tracking #: FDE37C3C1A14CE49AE5E6D600B3ABF48B8E75D4C
*
The guys who made this web site should convert their screen shot .BMPs to .PNGs. I
gave up after the first page in the viewing of
their online manuals.
Looks really cheap...
Brian Guralnick
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Voice (514) 624-4003
Fax (514) 624-3631
- Original Message -
Jami wrote:
When I pointed this out to Roger on the first day of a three day
international Design Aids DS1Users Group Meeting hosted by Boeing in
Seattle Washington in the fall of 1983 (84?), he immediately left the
conference early and flew back to Southern California so that he could
Joe,
Please explain why this sounds dangerous? What do you put on your mechanical
layer that is not contained on the silk screen?
Tim
-Original Message-
From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Monday, September 09, 2002 4:33 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] You
Jami wrote
That is why I have floated several different proposals here in this forum,
ranging from SP7, to free upgrades to DXP (without ATS) for all who bought
into Protel 99 SE at its current level due to the fact that it actually does
have problems and these people have never received any
- Original Message -
From: Brian Guralnick [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:50 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
The guys who made this web site should convert their screen shot .BMPs to
.PNGs. I gave up
Warning
Unable to process data:
multipart/mixed; boundary==_NextPartTM-000-074234c0-39aa-429a-b309-77126cbfce45
From: Brian Guralnick [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
The guys who made this web site should convert their screen
shot .BMPs to .PNGs. I gave up after the first page in the
viewing of
their online manuals.
Looks really cheap...
At $195, that's an understatment...
aj
$195 for the full package? I think I might get it for home just to do some
hobby boards.
-Original Message-
From: Stephen Casey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:32 AM
To: Protel forum
Subject: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
Hello all,
I haven't
On Tue, 10 Sep 2002 02:06:34 -0400, Brian Guralnick wrote:
Which wima parts are you trying to get?
I have no problem getting them in quantity, say 400 - 600 pieces.
I figure I only need 10 of each.
http://www.wima.de/smd2220.htm
1.0uf
0.1uf
0.01uf
http://www.wima.de/mks2.htm
10uf
All
At 09:18 AM 9/10/2002 -0400, Matt Daggett wrote:
Abd ul-Rahman Lomax wrote:
(2) If you really want to do something about spam, look into Spamcop.com.
I think you mean spamcop.net - spamcop.net will process spam to find
originating IP, and will offer to send complaints to the appropriate
abuse
Warning
Unable to process data:
multipart/mixed; boundary==_NextPartTM-000-2cb322a3-3eb1-485f-bc74-605773acc74b
Unfortunately, Roger had Cancer, and died within a short time after all of
this happened, and so I really do not know who really ended up with what
in
the end.
JaMi, how do you know he's not still alive, sitting on a South American or
Caribbean beach, sipping drinks and hanging out with Elvis
Yes Altium, I really do want my SP7
I second that motion.
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original Message -
From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September
Tim,
I am not trying to answer for Joe but here is what we do. We include
in our library land patterns a mechanical layer with a precise 1:1 scale of
the component and the special .designator string. This is our assembly
layer. It is also the sanity check layer where you can look at the
Wasn't AutoTrax the predecessor to Protel?
I wonder if the original DOS code has been recycled into a Windows app? Did
anyone on this list use the original DOS AutoTrax software? How does this
compare?
Best regards,
Ivan Baggett
Bagotronix Inc.
website: www.bagotronix.com
- Original
I also couldn't agree more on SP7. It is unfair to expect users to pay for
DXP when they cannot use it right away with all the bug fixes and retraining
required. On the other hand, I might be tempted to pay for the DXP upgrade
if it would buy me SP7. I would see an immediate value to the
I purchased Auto-Trax from Protel along with The initial windows schematic
software. Way back when they were in Santa Clara Ca.
Mike
riginal Message -
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:25 AM
Subject:
I agree 100%.
I also started in 1993 with Protel V1.5, I think.
Since then, several times protels upgrade politics were very obscure. Once
(1996?) I sold the whole package and bought a new one, because it was
cheaper than to upgrade. And as far as I remember, it never happened that
they released
And how about that 1 page online tour?
I downloaded the app and installed it.
Tried to open a SCH using File Open -Schematic, and got a dialog box
that said:
Files of type: PCB(*.sch)
Nice start! It's a 'PCBSCH' file. LOL
OK so I find the directory where they are hiding the demo files (you'd
Yuck. Why don't you just run protel at home? If you (or anyone at work)
isn't using it at work at the same time as you're using it at home, I
think it's perfectly legal.
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 6:51 AM
never thought of it that way. I should look at the agreement, after all we
are using a floating lisc.
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 12:48 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
I called and asked them about this once, and they told me that it is
perfectly fine to install it on multiple machines as long as only the
purchased number of licences is in use at any one time. This makes it easy
for me to work on stuff either at work or at home.
Now that a major design
To all...
It is obvious the major failings of DXP are no doubt due to a failure of
Altium to survey its client base to see what would be truly desired within a
new product. The 'we think you want' policy does work well when viewed
against the 'we can go away' reaction.
There *has* to be an
Tim,
One of my major complaints about Protel is its lack
of assembly layer capability, there should be 2 other
layers call them mechanical or whatever that automatically
mirror AND change to a designated other layer when
that part is pushed to bottom or top. The Top Bottom Overlay layers do
this
Yes, there is pin swapping within DXP. This is a horrible pox. Why would
anyone wish to declare pin 1 is really pin 5 ?
That's not what pin swapping is supposed to be. Pin swapping is where the
pins retain their proper numberings, but the nets that they are connected to
can be swapped.
Brad,
The only problem I still see with this is the fact that this ONE
mechanical layer is in fact still one layer and not easily
if at all able to be separated out for the bottom assembly view.
If there is a way I would love to hear it, I have in fact used
a mechanical layer in my library for an
I'm with ya Ivan,
It's not just for 2 layer boards though.
If you have 100 rpaks on a board it sure
can come in handy.
I STILL cannot believe that pingate swapping
is not part of 99SE. It is a Royal PITA not to
have that capability What a total waste of time
and effort to have to go back
Robert,
you will see that I indicated that Protel/Altium needs a
mechanical/assembly layer pairing just as most packages have or have had for
many many years. I think that I heard on the DXP forum that this is a
reality in DXP, no guarantees. Not that I care, DXP is a very distant glint
Tony,
See below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 2:48 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
~ ~ ~ === I'm getting tired or writing snip ::)
Well
Excellent! Excellent!
So simple, yet so elegantly stated!
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Fabian Hartery [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 11:14 AM
Subject: [PEDA] SP7 and beyond
~ ~ ~
Like many others, I will support ATS if
Brad,
Thanks very much, I too looked at it that way but when I realized the
step to unlock the primitives of all those parts was involved and
like you say the number of steps and not
being clean I totaly abandoned that idea. Everytime I thought
I had a neat or better way to handle it there was
Bagotronix Tech Support wrote:
Wasn't AutoTrax the predecessor to Protel?
I wonder if the original DOS code has been recycled into a Windows app? Did
anyone on this list use the original DOS AutoTrax software? How does this
compare?
I used the original Protel Tango PCB, which I think was
Tony Karavidas wrote:
Yuck. Why don't you just run protel at home? If you (or anyone at work)
isn't using it at work at the same time as you're using it at home, I
think it's perfectly legal.
The OLD user agreement definitely permitted this. I think they pulled
this out about 3-4 years ago.
Hello,
Purchasing is complaining about us buying so many boards
without getting other quotes. I've done business with a
couple other shops, but only for specialty work, like
controlled impedance or an extreme dimension. I don't
want to get quotes from these shops because it takes 2
weeks to
Ian
See below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:51 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
On 02:48 AM 10/09/2002 -0700, Tony Karavidas said:
Hi Jami,
..snip..
Miker,
I like these guys: http://www.prototron.com
They usually get quotes back to me in a couple of hours, and I don't even
use the online feature.
Their quality is absolutely top-notch, but their pricing can be variable
and sometimes out-of-line on simple stuff. They are quick to sharpen
Michael,
See below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Michael Reagan (EDSI) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 5:44 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
Jami wrote
That is why I have floated several different
We've had good results from Sierra Proto Express (www.protoexpress.com,
which jumps to something else) for small quantities (10 boards), 4-layer
stuff. Looks like they'll quote online up to 6-layer, 5/5 spacing. Once I
submitted a quote request for a larger quantity, I think they responded in
- Original Message -
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:48 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
~ ~ ~
JaMi, how do you know he's not still alive, sitting on a South American or
Tim,
Sorry I couldn't get back to you sooner. I'm on a US government contract and
working in Isolation and on site for the remainder of the week. Not to
mention I have to actually drive there.
Anyway it appears that The answers to your questions were pretty well
covered by other responses
I have hit monitors hard enough to break them when Protel 99 SE has
screwed
me up.
JaMi, be careful with your rage. CRTs have a vacuum inside them, and can
implode. The shower of glass shards could seriously injure you. When I was
11 years old (mid 1970's), I would salvage old TV sets from
I've had really good results with these guys, good products, good pricing
and great next day service. These are all the things I need. May not be the
right choice for production quantities. I usually send them gerbers panels,
for the most bang for the buck.
http://www.accutrace.com/
-
No, I cannot.
I had to drop one supplier because they'd have my order
laying around for a few days before processing it. On the
other hand, the one processing the files there would call
me in case he didn't understand something. The new supplier
appears to have a dummy there. I recently forgot
- Original Message -
From: Bagotronix Tech Support [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:53 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
Yes Altium, I really do want my SP7
I second that motion.
Actually, I believe
Excellent! . . . Excellent!
Yes Altium, I really really really do want my SP7!
- Original Message -
From: Rob Young [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:32 AM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
I also couldn't
On 02:36 PM 10/09/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Protel / Altium is in trouble.
That is obvious.
You are making wild statements and they help no-one.
You are excitable, you have said that much yourself, I suggest a couple of
bex and lie down...
Ian
:)
Bill Brooks
* Tracking #: F90318EB8B2EE947B643C214A171187F29977808
*
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
* To post a
Robison Michael R CNIN wrote:
Hello,
Purchasing is complaining about us buying so many boards
without getting other quotes. I've done business with a
couple other shops, but only for specialty work, like
controlled impedance or an extreme dimension. I don't
want to get quotes from these
Joe,
I must have missed this post yesterday morning.
Sorry to hear that, I hope it was his choice and he moved on to better
things.
Do you have any idea as to how just long he has been no longer employed at
Kollmogren?
Has it been for a some period of time, or was it very recent, like last
Could someone advise me on how to review email archives from the DXP forum.
I am interested in the discussion that has already transpired, but I just
signed onto the forum today.
Thanks,
Daniel
* Tracking #:
Hi all,
I've had 99SE for almost a year but have used it very little. I am trying
to use
it now to make a composite of two boards I did in PCB 2.8 (still my
favorite).
I have a 750MHz dual-processor Dell system and 99SE just stops dead in the
water when it is doing things, especially trying to
See:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/dxptechforum/messages
John Williams
- Original Message -
From: Daniel Webster [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:39 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] DXP forum
Could someone advise me on how to
Hi Robert:
Turn off the online DRC, or at least be more selective about what you enable
the on-line DRC for - this should improve your performance. Also, the
autosave takes a little while every 15 inutes or so - you can increase the
time interval for that.
I run it on a PIII-500, and the
Jami,
Don't get me wrong I like a rebel with an attitude! March on troops but
I think we are going to be left in the dust holding our breath waiting for
SP7 even if we pay wish a premium on it.Protel would then be
supporting 3 products, 99SE, DXP and Accel Pee Pee cad.I don think
Robert,
the other productivity enhancement in PCB is to hide your large
nets, typically GND. To do this select nets in the explorer pane, double
click on the net (GND), select hide. This will remove those delays where the
status bar at the bottom of the page reads analyzing net GND.
Protel Autotrax is available for download on the Protel site
as freeware.
See at the bottom of the page...
http://www.protel.com/resources/downloads/index.html
It does support netlist also. I have it running on a HP
Jornada 720 handheld pc using an dos emulator called
pocketDOS. I haven't
I need to select the address of a card using 0R (0805) links, and I want to
create a footprint with 3 SM pads, and be able to specify the link be loaded
1-2 or 2-3, without having to manually edit the Pick and Place file.
I don't mind using two different SCH components (since changing will happen
Bob, it sound like you are having performance problems because of too many
rules. If so, the culprit is probably the Design Rule Translation wizard.
It pops up the first time you open an imported P2.8 file.
This wizard is not very smart and it often makes hundreds of needless or
duplicate
This looks a long way ahead of the original DOS Autotrax software.
I expect that it's only a name similarity.
Can't remember if it was 'Protel PCB' or 'AutoTrax' first (around 1986/87).
Ran it on an XT. Only top, bottom and 2 planes, handful of track and pad sizes, no
schematic editor and no
Hi Terry,
No crash here with two mech and multilayer on, it just
toggles through the 3 layers enabled?
Darren
-Original Message-
From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 12:22
I just discovered this.
I had all copper layers turned off,
Ian,
Please see below,
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Ian Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 3:26 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] So sue me ...(was:Crunch time?)
On 02:36 PM 10/09/2002 -0700, JaMi Smith said:
Protel / Altium
SHAZAM GOLLIE ! ! !
TOAST HERE TOO ! ! !
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Terry Creer [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail) [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 7:21 PM
Subject: [PEDA] GTC - Guaranteed To Crash
I just discovered this.
I had all copper
Confirmed! Wow that's a bugger!
-Original Message-
From: Terry Creer [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 7:22 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum (E-mail)
Subject: [PEDA] GTC - Guaranteed To Crash
I just discovered this.
I had all copper layers turned off,
Even more interesting: WinXP generates some error reports when this
crash occurs (to report to MS if I say it's ok) and the two files
appcompat.txt and client99se.exe.mdmp have a lot of interesting info in
them.
I can read some of the ASCII in the mdmp file:
PCB:SetCurrentLayere current
On Thu, 05 Sep 2002 02:48:33 +0100, I wrote:
I like the PCB printer in 99SE, so I decide to find out what DXP has got
instead.
And as you read some time ago found not much that I liked.
Playing some more today - investigating the inconsistent and irrational
user interface I stumbled across an
Jami,
He had been gone for some time. They told my friend the VP that it was a
response to some sort of virus, waiting for more info.
Joe
Yes Altium, I really do want my SP7!
- Original Message -
From: JaMi Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Protel EDA Forum [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: JaMi Smith
Darren,
I seem to be remembering 89, are you sure on that date or is my brain
starting to fade?
Joe
- Original Message -
From: Darren [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:01 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
What's goin' on here!
Ok, so now how come all of a sudden bugs are crawling out of the woodwork
here, and Protel 99 SE seems to be exploding every time someone touches it.
How can some of these things have possibly been hiding in here for so long
and never been discovered by any of you guys?
Tony,
If those were attachments they ain't there anymore.
JaMi
- Original Message -
From: Tony Karavidas [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: 'Protel EDA Forum' [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 7:54 PM
Subject: Re: [PEDA] GTC - Guaranteed To Crash
Even more interesting: WinXP
Yeah, 1989. Red box, Protel Autotrax. (I still have a box sitting here!)
-Original Message-
From: Joe Sapienza [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 8:01 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
Darren,
I seem to be
Joe,
Looking in the AUTOTRAX manuals, dates of around late
1998 are used, for copyrights etc. This is for ver 1.0
I think. But 1986 is when I was using Protel PCB which
I believe first shipped in 1985. Autotrax had at least
4 mid layers, I have no documentation on the Protel PCB
product.
There
I make it a point to not attach to this (or any other) list. The data
was interesting but probably only useful to Altium. If they ask for it,
I'll supply it.
About your other email: I think lately when some of those bugs are found
by one person, the rest of us have been eager to try them on our
That's Autotrax. Protel PCB would have been 1986.
-Original Message-
From: Tony Karavidas [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Wednesday, 11 September 2002 1:03 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Protel clone on the way?!?!?!
Yeah, 1989. Red box, Protel Autotrax. (I still have
Terry, Darren, Tony,
OK, lets' look at some stats here.
Terry, you found it, what OS are you running on what type of system.
Darren, you say you did not crash or lock up, what OS are you running on
what type of system.
Tony, it appears that you tested a few different machines, is that so? and
Hello,
I have not checked if any of the board shops below have online quotes. A
subscriber of the SI-LIST put these together and I thought the contacts
might be useful.
Personally, I have had only positive experience with MEI, TTM, and Teradyne.
By this I mean that I have no experience with
My setup is:
Protel 99SE SP6
Windows 2000 SP2
Pentium 4, 2GHz, 1GB DDR ram, 2 x 80G HDD (mirror),
G550 Graphics 2 x 1600 x 1200, 32b/24b colour,
LARGE FONTS.
At the same time I have open Outlook 2002, DXP, a few
IE 6.0.26, windows explorer, a few mails and Corel Draw
ver 10.
Mech layers
-Original Message-
From: JaMi Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 9:10 PM
To: Protel EDA Forum
Cc: JaMi Smith
Subject: Re: [PEDA] GTC - Guaranteed To Crash
Terry, Darren, Tony,
OK, lets' look at some stats here.
Terry, you found it, what
just a thought, you should have SP6 installed.
-Original Message-
From: Robert Ritchey [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 4:50 PM
Hi all,
I've had 99SE for almost a year but have used it very little. I
am trying to use it now to make a composite of two
Generally when an application blows up when I do something, I just stop
doing it. I don't have time to figure out how to file a bug report. If
a company wants to hear about their bugs from me they had better put a
bug reporting tool right in the application and make it dead simple to
use.
Not to jump all over you, but how do you suppose Altium is supposed to
fix bugs if we don't report them?
-Original Message-
From: Joey Nelson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
Sent: Tuesday, September 10, 2002 10:06 PM
To: 'Protel EDA Forum'
Subject: Re: [PEDA] Shazam Gollie! - Time
On 12:34 PM 11/09/2002 +1000, Darren said:
Hi Terry,
No crash here with two mech and multilayer on, it just
toggles through the 3 layers enabled?
Darren
Are you using '*' ot '+' key to toggle through the layers. Have you
remapped '*' to toggle through all the layers or is it still the
Mine didn't crash (2 mech layers + multilayer all on)
Running P99SE, SP6, win2k sp3.
Cheers,
Matthew van de Werken
Electronics Engineer
CSIRO Exploration Mining - Gravity Group
1 Technology Court - Pullenvale - Qld - 4069
ph: (07) 3327 4685 fax: (07) 3327 4455
email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi Ian,
I haven't changed the shortcut, this is what the short
properties are:
Process PCB:SetCurrentLayer
ParaLayerName = NextSignal
It will toggle through the electrical layers when there
are some, else toggle through the enabled layers when no
electrical layers are enabled.
90 matches
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