Re: [ZION] War on Iraq

2002-09-25 Thread Paul Osborne
John said: I don't know what is going on. None of my information sources are reliable. I don't know of any reliable information sources. But I smell a rat. Something is rotten in Copenhagen. Taken out of context, it sounds like you are one poor lost soul. ;-) Here, have some chocolate

Re: [ZION] John Pratt performance art

2002-09-30 Thread Paul Osborne
On Mon, 30 Sep 2002 08:41:57 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Oh, I forgot to add. If you're interested in what's happened in the 27 years since the Joseph Smith Papyri: an Egyptian Endowment was published, try http://www.fairlds.org/pubs/LBOA.pdf a piece of scholarship

Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated

2002-09-30 Thread Paul Osborne
Why are we (I include myself in that) latter-day saints so reluctant to get our year's supply of food? Not JWR. I have seen his stash. He is loaded with grain! When I visited him in Alaska I told him he may need a gun to protect his stock but he said he has so much he is willing to feed his

Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated

2002-10-01 Thread Paul Osborne
Dan: The Church is certainly _trying_ to make this easier; Have they started talking about the prepackaged food kits in your area yet? Nope. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM

Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated

2002-10-02 Thread Paul Osborne
I'll bet they could whip the Mexican army if they were to invade. grin --JWR Boy, you are really on a roll these days. grin I thought I was really bad at kicking the beehive. I guess I've met my match! Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] Ways food storage could be activated

2002-10-02 Thread Paul Osborne
I'll slightly violate a personal (temporary) rule of mine and ask all on this list who think that Canada needs the US to protect it: Canada would beg for US assistance if their country was under attack by aliens from outer space. It could happen. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] A Saint First, Then an American

2002-10-04 Thread Paul Osborne
It is not a coincidence that nearly all foaming-at-mouth anti-Mormons are so-called Christians. It was primarily these other Christian denominations that the Lord had reference to when he told Joseph that their creeds were an abomination and all their professors corrupt. They will all be

Re: [ZION] New documentary on a war criminal?

2002-10-04 Thread Paul Osborne
There is no doubt in my mind that he is a war criminal. http://www.zpub.com/un/wanted-hkiss.html Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM Internet access for less! Join Juno

Re: [ZION] To act or to be acted upon

2002-10-04 Thread Paul Osborne
In CES, we have been instructed to NOT use the phrase free agency, but rather use moral agency. What the reason is, I do not know. Sound like this is political correct stuff that I simply don't care for. Does this mean they are going to rewrite the records too? I certainly hope not. I'm

[ZION] Bruce R McConkie

2002-10-04 Thread Paul Osborne
Conference is coming!! But I shall not know any better then than I know now that he is God's Almighty Son, that he is our Savior and Redeemer, and that salvation comes in and through his atoning blood and in no other way. (Bruce R. McConkie) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Non-text portions of this

[ZION] priesthood conference

2002-10-05 Thread Paul Osborne
I really enjoyed Monson's talk in Priesthood. He is such a nice guy and preaches with such kindness that it just makes me *want* to do what's right rather than get a rebellious attitude and say, don't tell me what to do! President Hinkley is a real super guy. Curiously I got the impression as I

Re: [ZION] music

2002-10-06 Thread Paul Osborne
But I think they could have found better music for it. The tune doesn't measure to the lyrics. Of course that is just my opinion, and it is just a matter of taste. Is something wrong with me? I really don't care for the music of quite a few of the LDS hymns. Some of them come off as

Re: [ZION] Iraq and War

2002-10-07 Thread Paul Osborne
It appears to me that is only a matter of time before Saddam does the same. Should a nation sit back and let it happen or should there be a response? Saddam is a stupid idiot. I don't think he is any threat to the USA. I think America needs to mind there own business and let the other

Re: [ZION] Favorite Conference Addresses

2002-10-08 Thread Paul Osborne
I am liking President Monson more and more. I use to not care for his talks too much because his flowery speeches and poems bugged me. Now-- In an hour when I don't feel so strong spiritually--I feel a need for a soft touch and tender words. I don't want to be yelled at by the GA's but I don't

Re: [ZION] Dove breeding

2002-10-10 Thread Paul Osborne
John and others, Question: How does Elder Nelson's talk on being peacemakers fit in with things Pres Benson has stated in the past on defending freedom around the world, etc. As I recall, he strongly defended the Vietnam War as a way to help contain communism. Isn't our war with Iraq more

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-10 Thread Paul Osborne
Regarding the current political environment: At present, the apostles of Mormonism have no business making public announcements about whether a specific war should be fought or not. Apart from revelation and authorization from God, it simply is not the business of the church to assume a

Re: [ZION]

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
I get to give a talk tomorrow on the theme Follow the Prophet, so I am feeling rather humble today. I even skipped responding to Marc on a topic, and actually had kind thoughts toward him. Sounds like you are becoming a good Christian. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] No War?

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
Why not bomb Pakistan? They already have the bomb, and they have a strong Islamic fundamentalist tradition, whereas Iraq's is more secular. I wasn't aware that the Pak government was hostile to the USA. I hardly watch the news because it upsets me so I'm pretty careful not to say too much when

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
John W. Redelfs wrote: Sadam doesn't have an ideology. If he does, it is I'm boss, and I'll crush anyone who tries to tear down my power. Quite a few world leaders seem to share this ideology, even some in our own country. Jon Have anyone in mind? Would you care to share the fruits of

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
I agree that Saddam is a Gadianton. He is a small one, and Bush is a big one. Gadianton? I cannot agree with this. I see no reason to suspect Bush as a mass murderer. And if this is so; why must I suppose that hundreds of thousands of conservative Latter-day Saints voted for him after

[ZION] Fw: Re: Atomic Holocausts Predicted

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
What do you think? Is invading Iraq going to increase or decrease the likelihood of a nuclear war? Is there anyone here who truly believes that invading Iraq is going to bring about a stable democracy? I'm generally for minding our own business and letting the different regions settle

Re: [ZION] No War?

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
More importantly I suspect also the church will begin to make inroads into old Babylon. The Crusaders already tried that approach: the Bible on the point of a sword. What makes you think the Book of Mormon on the muzzle of a tank will work any better? Because the church is true? :-) Paul

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
I cannot agree with this. I see no reason to suspect Bush as a mass murderer. And if this is so; why must I suppose that hundreds of thousands of conservative Latter-day Saints voted for him after careful prayer and consideration as directed by the First Presidency. I'm sorry John, but it

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-13 Thread Paul Osborne
I think Bush is a descent guy but I didn't vote for him. I didn't even vote. That's even worse, imo. It's throwing your freedom back in the faces of your founding fathers. I don't care. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-14 Thread Paul Osborne
We have no right to say evil things about a person, without strong evidence. GWBush is not perfect by any stretch of the imagination. However, he has not ever shown himself to be an evil man, which is what a Gadianton is. I agree. And, when was the last time our beloved prophet went to the

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-14 Thread Paul Osborne
As for your claim that Bush is a Gadianton, just where is your proof? There is no proof. The President is a descent man. I'm absolutely sure of it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
Yes, that is exactly right. I think you (plural) are stupid enough to be fooled. That is exactly what I think. That is also what President Benson thought. He wasted his life in trying to mobilize the priesthood to overthrow the Gadianton Robbers in our government, and the members of the

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
I'm sorry that I'm being offensive, but sometimes it just cannot be avoided. Ignorant people are getting us into a war that is not in the national interest. I beg to differ. It certainly appears that there are quite a few folks that are interested in seeing this war carried out. Even in

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
I just wish I could know whether or not any of our beloved national leaders intentionally looked the other way while all this was coming down. I have to believe that any one of our national leaders would have given their own lives to prevent 911. (Clinton included). I don't believe the

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
We had PROOF that Clinton committed the felonies of perjury and obstruction of justice, but our Senate acquitted him anyway, making them just as guilty as he was. FWIW-- I too would have lied under oath if I had been hounded over my personal sex life. It's nobody's business. Good for Clinton

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
After careful consideration, Gary Smith wrote: As for your claim that Bush is a Gadianton, just where is your proof? Is proof needed? It is just common sense. The man in the street does not start wars. Men with wealth and power do. Who has the wealth and power today? It is Bush and

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
After careful consideration, Paul Osborne wrote: FWIW-- I too would have lied under oath if I had been hounded over my personal sex life. It's nobody's business. Good for Clinton for lying and good for Abraham too. --- Comparing Clinton with Abraham is quite a stretch. --JWR I wasn't

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
Paul I think when Clinton became President of the US that made everything he did my business. I also feel that being president he had the responsibility to be a good example to me my children and especially my grandchildren Sandra I can't agree. What he did in the privacy of his bedroom or

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
1. Secret Combinations • Oct. 1986: From the Book of Mormon we see the evils of secret combinations portrayed in graphic and chilling reality . . . . We should constantly ask ourselves, 'Why did the Lord inspire Mormon (or Moroni or Alma) to include that in his record? What lesson can I learn

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
• April 1989: Secret combinations . . . are built up to get power, gain, and glory of the world. (See Hel. 7:5; Ether 8:9, 16, 22-23; Moses 5:31.) . . . Secret combinations brought down both the Jaredite and the Nephite civilizations and [have] been and will yet be the cause of the fall of

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
Steve wrote: Below are six statements from President Ezra Taft Benson regarding a world- wide conspiracy that is increasing its evil influence and control over America and the entire world. These warnings have come to us from God through His living prophet. All six statements came after his

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-15 Thread Paul Osborne
destruction of the people, but notice how he singled out the secret combinations, just as the Church today could point out many threats to peace, prosperity, and the spread of God's work, but it has singled out as the greatest threat the Godless conspiracy. There is no conspiracy theory in

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
I think you have a Pollyanna view of Prophets and their role. In 1959, at President McKay's request, [then] Elder Ezra Taft Benson welcomed and shook hands with the butcher of the Ukraine, Nikita Kruschev. More recently, at the Polynesian Cultural Center in Hawaii, Church leaders met with some

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
Paul are you a human being or a mule?? just kidding don`t get offended{: Sandra Considering my income, I feel like a mule. ;-) he he Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET ACCESS FROM JUNO! Juno offers FREE or PREMIUM

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
The Lord's priesthood has a mission to perform for liberty-loving people everywhere. We cannot, any more than Jonah of old, run away from our calling. (The Teachings of Ezra Taft Benson, p. 620; italics added.) I'm not running away. I'm just not going to get involved with politics. I don't

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
Any Christian constitutionalist who retreats from this battle jeopardizes his life here and hereafter. Seldom has so much responsibility hung on so few, so heavily; but our numbers are increasing, and we who have been warned have a responsibility to warn our neighbor (see DC 88:81). (Ibid.,

Re: [ZION] The Rulers of Darkness

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
For example, he will argue, 'There is no need to get involved in the fight for freedom;all you need to do is live the gospel.' Of course this is a contradiction, because we cannot fully live the gospel and not be involved in the fight for freedom. People are going to interpret the fight for

Re: [ZION] Irregardless, the term is regardless

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
Noticed someone used a term that is a pet peeve of mine. Technically, the term irregardless is bad grammar. To be grammatically correct, you can use: irregarding or regardless. The IR and the less cancel each other out, kind of a double negative. Well, its listed in Websters. Paul O [EMAIL

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
But that's not the real issue; the issue is that he stood before the camera and lied to us, then stood before a grand jury and lied to them about that affair. That's why he was impeached. It was an evil investigation brought on by the Gadianton Media. And sorry to say the people of this country

Re: [ZION] Elder Nelson misquoted

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
Most of businesses in this country have policies against employees... The White HOUSE is also for the President to manage his own personal affairs. That is where he lives. It seems that some people on this list don't believe in the right of privacy but think they OWN the lives of government

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
All be if you were to do a study you would learn that the so-called conspiracy theorists are a lot more likely to have a years supply of food that the average active member. They vote differently too, so they will not have nearly as much to answer for when they stand before the Judge.

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
I don't think it means other saints aren't inspired. They just have different gifts. Seeing a sinister pattern in current events is apparently not one of them. No problem. They are strong in other areas. And we who can clearly see these things have other areas where we are blind.

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-16 Thread Paul Osborne
I don't think it means other saints aren't inspired. They just have different gifts. Yeah, the gift to elect a Gadianton Robber for President. It sure was close. Thank you UTAH! ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET INTERNET

Re: RE: [ZION] Voting and parties

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
For the last couple of years I've been toying with the idea of becoming a Democrat, although as a conservative and Constitutionalist I don't imagine I would be a very good Democrat. I think I understand a little bit what you are saying and we talked about it when I visited you. I'm torn

Re: [ZION] Jimmy Carter - Nobel winner

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
There was no with honor in the effort. Given the outcome, we should have pulled out in 1968 and saved 40,000 American lives and billions of dollars. Amen to that! We either have to convert these terrorist nations to the gospel to get them to change, or we need to bomb them into the Stone Age,

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Gore is a Gadianton too, so what choice do any of us have? I wouldn't fault President Hinckley for voting for a Bush Gadianton before a Gore Gadianton. Who knows? Perhaps he voted for Patrick Buchanan like I did. Or better yet, perhaps he voted the rest of the ballot and left the

Re: [ZION] High Priest

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Then you would logically follow from your argument that one wouldn't have to be ordained a god, king and high priest? That's not what I read in the scriptures. I read in Rev 1:6 and other references that we must be made kings and high priests unto God the Father. I'm willing to learn and change

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I was referring to Stake President and up. They have money and prestige. There are plenty of talented yet poor High Priests who never get the call because they don't have money. Money is a prerequisite to those callings. I hope that it doesn't sound like I am faulting the Lord. I'm simply pointing

Re: Voting and parties (was Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Cousin Bill If one defines a good Democrat as being someone who works within the party to bring about a better platform, select better leaders and elect better office holders (those that would agree with church teachings), then it would be possible to be a good Mormon and a good Democrat. Sounds

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Not I, said Cousin Bill. Nor will I ever vote for a Bush. I did vote for the first Bush. That was when I was young and foolish and didn't know better. Cousin Bill Hey, you just called me a fool. (don't worry, I'm sure I am) I voted for Reagan the first time and I was only 18. I voted for

Re: Voting and parties (was Re: [ZION] Cuba and Castro)

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Bill brings up an interesting point. Is it a good idea to work within a party in order to change it? Presumably the answer is yes. What if the party currently supports every charter violating thing in existence? Just where does one draw the line? Well, we have to realize that this is a free

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money -- not

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I can assure you that money is not a requirement in order to be called as a stake president. I followed it for years in the Church News and have clearly seen that the money guys get the callings. I can't deny those facts. The guys who get called in third world countries are the merchants and

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
My former stake president was a public school teacher and later an administrator and my current stake president is in a similar income bracket. Both of them are most likely below the 50th percentile with regard to income within the stake boundaries. How can you justify statements like that,

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Here are some of the former occupations of all the current apostles. Neither President Hinckley nor President Packer could have become wealthy from their employment, so Paul's theory fails in those cases (granted, they may have made money from their books, investments, consulting fees, etc.).

Re: [ZION] liberal question

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
The liberal philosphy tending towards pro-abortion, pro-gay, pro-pornography, the free-drug/booze/sex culture. This would be so anti-LDS's philososphy, that in all conscienceness that the straight-laced LDS would even attempt to go to the temple. This is not what liberal means to me at all.

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Will we ever see a janitor, a manual laborer, a machinist, a farmer, a rancher, as an apostle? A janitor, a manual laborer, and a machinist are not qualified to become apostles but a rich rancher and a rich farmer could be considered. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] DC sniper

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
What do I do? Heidi the fair Don't worry. They will catch him soon. A lot of people are watching and those who know the sniper may catch on that something is wrong and report it. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno

Re: [ZION] James' Ossuary

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
It fits. So there is a high possibility of this being authentic and in the right timeframe. But imagine having the bones of James! I think the only way you're going to get the bones of James is if you tug on his LIVING limbs. If you do that Gary I'm sure he'll smack you. ha ha ha ha Paul

Re: [ZION] High Priest

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
Hopefully, these will help to show the importance of the future ordination of all of us brethren as high priests and kings unto God the Father. Ok. I'm convinced. I look forward to my ordination someday. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
What is your definition of money? Is it $40,000? $50,000? $100,000? $1,000,000? My definition of money is when you have it in the bank and you don't owe anyone anything except perhaps the mortgage. Most school administrators I know make about $50K. So if that is your definition of money,

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I agree with everything you are saying Gary but I'm not thinking that all the GA's were born with silver spoons. I know they worked hard and got educated and have fine jobs that pay quite well. That is the nature of the man who gets the call. I am merely pointing out how the Lord does business and

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I think that Paul is being deliberately provocative in order to stir up a discussion. I coached him while he was here. grin It works pretty good, doesn't it Paul? Yep. Your s right John. I like to be provocative and stir things up. It's fun, but I would feel bad if I hurt someones

Re: [ZION] High Priests More Active Than Elders

2002-10-23 Thread Paul Osborne
I have heard that half of all elders are inactive. But that fewer than 5 percent of high priests are inactive. Can anyone here confirm or deny this? Sounds about right. Keep in mind though that this also includes the perspective elders who never got ordained. Gee wizz. Now I feel like

Re: [ZION] Clinton the Felon

2002-10-18 Thread Paul Osborne
The way I feel about it, the Senate betrayed its country when it acquitted Clinton of the impeachment. I feel the opposite. The Congress was reckless but the Senate was prudent and demonstrated a high level of maturity. I was glad to see some sanity restored in the House of government. The

Re: [ZION] First Presidency statement on war

2002-10-21 Thread Paul Osborne
In the area of oxymorons, is it possible to have a card carrying liberal democrat and a temple going straight laced Latter Day Saint? No. You cannot be a Democrat and hold a temple recommend. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] GET

Re: [ZION] What's the point of high priests?

2002-10-21 Thread Paul Osborne
Hmmm - my husband is writhing on the ground in severe pain, muttering something about Section 121, so I'll just send this off for him. He does some mighty strange things sometimes. But he's a High Priest, and that seems pretty par for the course for those guys. Nancy, Jon's wife Section 121?

Re: [ZION] Quorum Brotherhood

2002-10-21 Thread Paul Osborne
I've tried everything I can think of. Every time I've been an elder's president, quorum brotherhood has been a top priority of mine. It used to be a lesson in the manual once a year or so. But I've never won a convert. Strange. I would think that quorum brotherhood would be easier to forge

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-21 Thread Paul Osborne
I'm sure they do, but that wasn't the question I was raising. I was raising not the question of knowledge, but of trust. Rule #1: follow the money. How do you know that Bush is listening to US intelligence (which, btw, has a less than sterling record). I don't know if Bush is listening to US

Re: [ZION] High priests have money

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
On Mon, 21 Oct 2002 18:54:03 -0600 Marc A. Schindler [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Okay, this is all very interesting and very useful (and I mean that sincerely), so let me ask another question: what about those of us who are unlikely, for one reason or another (assuming, of course, that we're

Re: [ZION] Cult of personality

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
A person can be a Democrat and a good Mormon, or he can be a Mormon and a good Democrat; but he cannot be both a good Democrat and a good Mormon. --JWR I can see that John has slammed the Democrat Mormons with his little jingle. So, if a Democrat can be a good Mormon but a good Democrat cannot

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
, so to speak. Paul Osborne wrote: I'm sure they do, but that wasn't the question I was raising. I was raising not the question of knowledge, but of trust. Rule #1: follow the money. How do you know that Bush is listening to US intelligence (which, btw, has a less than

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Trouble is, where is the General Authority who disagrees with ETB regarding this particular issue, that of Fidel Castro being a communist? I haven't been able to find one. Perhaps there is a general consensus then? O come on Steven, get real. We don't even know which of the Presidential

Re: [ZION] High priests

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Gary said: There isn't anymore salvation promised to a high priest as to an elder (as the MP is all that is required in this life), Yep. but eventually (presumably if not now, in the next life) one will have to be a high priest to preside over a presidency in heaven. I don't think so Gary

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Marc: Although I don't agree with John's terminology and system of reference in this regard, logically speaking I don't see why he'd have to take back his accusations. It's still a civic duty to vote -- that's clear LDS doctrine as far as I know (okay, I'm extrapolating from the 12th AoF, but the

Re: [ZION] RE: Voting and parties

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Please don't define *our* language for us. You can demonize the word all you want, but please keep your etymological waste products to yourself. Liberal is still a perfectly fine word in the majority of the English-speaking world. I agree. The Republicans are trying to kill a perfectly good word

Re: [ZION] Stop kicking the stuffing out of Turkey

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
It was merely a rhetorical question. Oh. I'm a little dumb. ;-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sign Up for Juno Platinum Internet Access Today Only $9.95 per month! Visit www.juno.com

Re: [ZION] Hindsight

2002-10-22 Thread Paul Osborne
Marc: Now this is an interesting thought. Do you really think this follows? (that the prophet's personal vote should, if it were known, be the example for the rest of us?) And how do you handle the fact that in any case this *can* only apply to a minority of LDS, since most LDS are not US?

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
Till, who hopes he hasn't offended Of course not. I'm the one around here that probably is the most offensive. When I was a kid I use to through rocks at beehives and shoot my bee bee gun at the neighbors windows. :-) Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED]

Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
We know that a temple will be built in Jerusalem before the Second Coming. We also know that a temple will be built in Jackson County before the Savior comes. Question: will the temple in Jerusalem have to be built and dedicated under the authority and supervision of the Melchizedek

Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
Dan: We might be in for a surprise here. The key, I think, is in the actual consecration of the temple. The Jews will probably build it, as a temple,... they won't have the authority to consecrate it, but the actual construction could be done in the faith that God will provide the means once it's

Re: [ZION] Calling of Stake Presidents

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
The GAs don't ask to see the persons with the highest salaries. In fact, it isn't a consideration. Usually, they know who it is as soon as the person steps into the room, as the Spirit tells them who it should be. If anyone considers the finances, it must be the Lord, because the GAs don't ask

Re: [ZION] High Priests

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
There are in this greater priesthood five offices or callings—elder, seventy, high priest, patriarch, and apostle—yet the priesthood is the same; and the priesthood is greater than any of its offices. We are a kingdom of brethren, a congregation of equals, all of whom are entitled to receive all

Re: [ZION] kings and priests

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
And with reference to all others who also receive the Melchizedek Priesthood, the scripture saith: “And all those who are ordained unto this priesthood are made like unto the Son of God, abiding a priest continually.” (JST, Heb. 7:3.) That is to say, they will be kings and priests forever; their

Re: [ZION] James' ossuary

2002-10-24 Thread Paul Osborne
Why? There's no evidence that he's resurrected. The James that ordained Joseph Smith was James the Greater, brother of John the Apostle. This James is brother of Jesus, who converted after the resurrection of Christ, and became the bishop of Jerusalem, as well as author of the book of James. For

Re: [ZION] ah, relief!

2002-10-25 Thread Paul Osborne
I'm so relieved that those two men have been arrested and it appears that these are the guys! What an answer to prayers! Now all they have to look forward to is long legal proceedings and jail time. They will never see the light of day. They will have a tough time in the prison system and will

Re: [ZION] High Priests

2002-10-25 Thread Paul Osborne
Mark Several of the Brethren have stated that since the Nephites were not Levites they never did have the Aaronic priesthood even when under the law of Moses. Therefore, so state these same Brethren, the Nephites always only had the Melchizedek priesthood. They further state (IIRC) that they

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-25 Thread Paul Osborne
I have two thoughts on this, somewhat differing in scope. First, I believe the Lord could allow the Jews to rebuild a temple, based on the Mosaic/Terrestrial Law. It would not have all the power and blessings of a temple built on the laws of the Celestial Kingdom and Melchizedek Priesthood. It

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-25 Thread Paul Osborne
He stated that Mormons would probably help the Jews build the temple, because we are one of the few peoples on earth who still have that skill/capability. My Institute director was on that trip, Brother Perritt, so I got it first hand. This is shop talk and it means nothing. If the Jews really

Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-25 Thread Paul Osborne
Concerning this event, Wilford Woodruff said in 1855: “When the Gentiles reject the Gospel it will be taken from them, and go to the House of Israel, to that long-suffering people that are now scattered abroad through all the nations upon the earth, … and they will rebuild Jerusalem their ancient

Re: [ZION] High Priests have money

2002-10-26 Thread Paul Osborne
Grampa Bill responds: I know of one SP who was a mechanic until his business went bust just before his call, He then sold house trailers for a while but was terminated because of too few sales. After a period of unemployment he want to work as a machinist for the county. I know of another who

Re: [ZION] The Jerusalem Temple

2002-10-26 Thread Paul Osborne
Wrong. It is not anti-Christ. Most Jewish religions now see Christ as a righteous man who taught good. They respect him as a teacher of righteousness. They just do not accept him as Messiah. Anti-Christ is a person/group that actively teaches against Christ and his righteousness. See Moroni 7 for

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-26 Thread Paul Osborne
You have to remember that this is a terrestrial/Mosaic temple, NOT a celestial/MP temple. We could help them build it so they could perform their ordinances... However, the Jews still await the Messiah, and so are still under the Mosaic Law. Their temple would sacrifice animals, and if they are

Re: [ZION] Jerusalem temple

2002-10-26 Thread Paul Osborne
The Levites were given the Aaronic Priesthood as a hereditary position. They have a right to serve in that level of truth they have. They do not have all the saving truths or ordinances, but a temple built upon the Mosaic law would probably be accepted by God IF they were truly dedicated to a

Re: [ZION] A Disturbing Contradiction

2002-10-27 Thread Paul Osborne
This is exactly how I see it and this is what the scriptures teach. I can tell that John is quite familiar and in perfect touch with the style of Bruce R McConkie's teachings and Mark E Peterson's too. All of the GA's teach this but deliver it in their own style. Some are gentle like President

Re: [ZION] American Gnosticism

2002-10-27 Thread Paul Osborne
I recently heard Mormonism referred to as American gnosticism. What does that mean? I'm not sure but it sounds like something that is associated with the ideas and teachings of a progressive religion that has it's own tangents outside of mainstream thinking. I can see how this term could be

  1   2   3   4   >