Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil
Yes,both Keith and David are right. Unless you are referring to palm oil, which have an unusual fatty acid composition, the amount of glycerine in most vegetable oils is roughly 10% by mass. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 17, 2006 6:48 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The amazing properties of Vegtible oil Is there a chemist amongst our ranks that can that can quantify % and molar, how much glycerin is in 1 liter of soybean oil? tallow? canola? Fish? (all virgin)Seems like spend time pondering questions like this of late. Any one know? Jim Hello Jim The rule of thumb is 79 millilitres of glycerine for every litre of oil used (7.9%). -- How much glycerine? Why isn't it solid? Make your own biodiesel - page 2: Journey to Forever http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make2.html#howmuchglyc More information here: How much methanol? http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_meth.html HTH. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it
Hello Lugano et al. As a Swedish native I can provide a more detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this country. There are a number of buts: - The power companies are not allowed to increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because thereis environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side effects. - Biodiesel has never been a popular product within any administration in this country. This is probably because biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were in control of the energy production as well. - The petroleum supplies to this country have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be considered asa tooadventurous project. - The result of next election can very well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. - The automotive industry, not only the Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country as Sweden, the automotive industry is very power-ful, and used to havingits way. Jan Warnqvist + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it Yes, Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme. further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, etc. the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are spearheading research, development and utilization. follow the following links for: 1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 2: green vehicles http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 have a nice week end. Lugano Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hellow every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood luckMark___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 204Fax: 0046 8 207 681.. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytof
Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it
Hello Lugano et al. As a Swedish native I can provide a more detailed and personal picture of the possibilities of oil independence of this country. There are a number of buts: - The power companies are not allowed to increase the share of electricity coming from hydropower sources, because thereis environmental, nature-protecting legislation. So, in order to become more independent of oil, we just have to trust that the 11 nuclear power plants running, will keep on to do so without serious accidents or other side effects. - Biodiesel has never been a popular product within any administration in this country. This is probably because biodiesel production can be performed in small scale. The administrative favourite product, ethanol, is a typical large scale product, which complies more with the industrial traditions of this country. One can even suspect that there is an attitude proclaiming that it is bad enough letting the farmers be in control of the food production. Things would get even worse if the farmers were in control of the energy production as well. - The petroleum supplies to this country have mainly been coming from the North Sea for a number of decades now, provided nominally by Norwegian and British companies. But the northernAtlantic production has already passed its peak, making changes necessary in order not to be totally depending upon oil from Russia and the middle east, which can be considered asa tooadventurous project. - The result of next election can very well over-throw the ambition of oil independence, since the right-liberal-centre coalition aiming for office, doesn´t have this target on the agenda. - The automotive industry, not only the Swedish, has to acknowledge and accept the goal. So far nothing along this line has been proclaimed from the industry. In such a small export-depending country as Sweden, the automotive industry is very power-ful, and used to havingits way. Jan Warnqvist + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 12, 2006 1:52 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sweden how they do it Yes, Sweden is well commited to renewabel energy as part of energy security and environmental considerations. it is projected that in 2010 about 51% of of its electricity will be produced from renewable sources. this is supported by existing huge hydropower sources and strong commitment to bioenergy. renewable electricity like bioenergy, wind, solar, etc. are currently growing in sharing the supply scheme due to existing legislation on certification scheme. further to this, the transport sector has been targetted for increased efficiency and utilization of renewable energy like ethanol and biodiesel through taxation that based on annual vehicle pollution (emitted CO2) and not the conventional taxation that based on either weight, size, utilization, etc. the whole of this development is guided by strong policies that are spearheading research, development and utilization. follow the following links for: 1: electricity for renewable sources http://ec.europa.eu/energy/res/publications/index_en.htm 2: green vehicles http://www.gronabilister.se/public/dokument.php?art=272 have a nice week end. Lugano Mark` Cookson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hellow every one I was listening to the radio this afternoon here int the UK and a programme come on called Costing the Earth. Its subject was how Sweden are changing away from fossil fuels.I found it very interesting as you may.Follow the link here then go down the left of the page to [Listen to the latest programme link] hey presto!!!http://www.bbc.co.uk/radio4/science/costingtheearth.shtmlGood luckMark___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/..Division of Energy and Furnace Technology,Department of Materials Science and Engineering,Royal Institute of Technology (KTH),Brinellvägen 23,SE 100 44 Stockholm,Sweden.[EMAIL PROTECTED]Tel. 0046 8 205 204Fax: 0046 8 207 681.. Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. MailScanner has detected a possible fraud attempt from "us.rd.yahoo.com" claiming to be Great rates starting at 1¢/min. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytof
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: EMRE ELMAS [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you probably know, approximately 95 - 97 % of the reaction is completed in the first 35 minutes, so you do not have to wait for 2 hours. Also the alcohol boils at 65 C and the closer you get to that point, the more alcohol you will lose at the time you need it the most for the reaction. This prevents you to complete the reaction 100 %. As I mentioned above if you just watch the content of water and the other impurities in the oil you will be fine. Hopefully the information works for you. I am looking forward to hear from you soon. Best wishes, Emre ELMAS Mobile: +90 533 517 72 45 From: Rafal Szczesniak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Date: Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:31:26 +0200 Hi, Recently I've came through problems with testing a cheap virgin oil in my test processor which every time ended up with incomplete reactions (emulsion problems). I did make the process longer (2 hours) and at higher temperature (60-63 degC) - still nothing, though by product separation is very nice. Today, I tried to titrate the oil and - to my surprise - it took 0.925ml of KOH solution. This was my first experience with titration, so I can also tell that the phenolophtalein solution turned pale (but noticable) magenta for about 15 secs (as described at JtF) after 0.925ml. After adding 1.05ml the colour got more intensive for longer time. My main question is - is it normal in case of cheap oils ? I suppose they contain (as other oils) some amount of FFAs, but so much ? Additional matter is whether I got titration right. I mean, interpreting the colours. I'm running out of ideas what could be wrong in the process, so any help is appreciated. -- cheers, Rafal Szczesniak **mir[at]diament.iit.pwr.wroc.pl Samba Team member mi***[at]samba.org +-+ *BSD, GNU/Linux and Samba http://www.samba.org +-+ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Don't just search. Find. Check out the new MSN Search! http://search.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200636ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use
Hello Ken, Charles et al. Ethanol can be somewhat tricky to deal with when it comes to producing biodiesel. The glycerine drop is related to the amount of ethyl esters that you have created during the process. This is suggesting that you will need a certain qty of ethyl esters produced in order to have a spontaneous glycerol drop. To make sure that you have a sufficient amount, the ethanol stochiometric surplus should be at least 75% or rather 100%. The stochiometric relationships are much more important than increasing of the reaction temperature, say 5 or 10 degrees. But also note that the ethanol inserted has to be anhydrous. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Ethanol use On Aug 21, 2006, at 1:57 PM, Charles List wrote: I would like to know, however, if I can increase the temperature of the reaction mixture to cut down the time taken for the reaction as ethanol boils at 78C rather than 65C. You probably could, but the separation of glycerol takes such a long time with ethanol (hours maybe), and the reactants are all in solution that whole time (completely clear, single phase), that you probably don't need more than the usual heating to get the reaction to go as far as it will. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Water content - was tirating a virgin oil
Hello Joe. If you are trying to recycle the surplus methanol you should be aware of this: MeOH + KOH MeO + K+ + H2O Methanol and potassium hydroxide will form water. That is your first water source. The second is the water content of the fresh methanol which should be below 0,5%. The third water source is the oil, max water content 0,5%. And if you add 1kg of KOH you can expect it form 0,322 kgs of water as it dissolves in the methanol. So for a batch of 1000 kgs, these are the actual water contents: Oil: 5 kgs Methanol : 1kg KOH (20kg): 6,45 kgs 12,45 kgs of water = 1,25% So now you can understand why itcan benecessary to dry the oil. To decrease the water content further I suggest that you purchase ready-made anhydrous catalyst, such as Potassium or Sodium Methoxide. In this case the surplus methanol will have a low water content and will be recyclable. For the water in methanol tests I can only say that this gravimetric method of yours is difficult. So far there is no simple quick and reliable method to do this. Best of luck to you ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 4:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Water content - was tirating a virgin oil Jan;Further to my post from yesterday regarding the 0.5% water in oil as a limit; I am assuming that this percentage relies on fairly anhydrous methoxide, and therefore is the maximum water that the process can tolerate. Is this a safe assumption? And if so would it be safe then to assume that if the oil is very dry the same absolute amount of water could be present in another source? I am asking because I am working on methanol recovery now. I can dry my oil quite well with vacuum and heat but recovered methanol always has significant water. If I assume methanol is added at 20% of oil volume then the same absolute volume of water present in the methanol can be 5 times higher i.e. 2.5% instread of 0.5% of oil volume? Is this correct? If so then I need only dry my methanol to 97.5% to get good results with very dry oil. I would appreciate your thoughts on this.I have purchased a hydrometer in the 0.790 to 0.900 range so that I can test the water content of recovered methanol. The hydrometer is calibrated for 15 degrees C which is cooler than room temperature. Also there is the problem that if I add 50 ml methanol and 50 ml water I don't get 100 ml of liquid! Rather than try to compensate the readings what I have decided to do is start with pure methanol and add small amounts of water and record the readings at room temperature to produce my own table based on percentages by volume. I will post these results so that others can benefit from it. My first test which was a mixture of methanol recovered from fuel mixed with methanol recovered from glycerin cocktail measured 0.813 at RT. That's a lot of water. Sigh.Stay tuned for more.JoeJan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: "EMRE ELMAS" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 20, 2006 10:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Dear Rafal, First of all, as long as you use cheap oil you should always be prepared to deal with much more FFA and water than it should normally contain. I think your emulsion problem occurs as a result of highly contained water. If that is the problem you should first dry the oil then process the reaction. Also if you use crude oil you should be very careful about the chemicals, such as lesitine, in the oil. So always try to use degummed oil, if you have to process crude oil. Another thing is, as you pro
Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil
Hello Tom. Yes, it is likely that the high FFA content of the oil caused you problems with the methanol test. But, the water content is also important. You should get yourself a water test kit. One way of pre-treatment is to do a two-step process. After the first alkaline step, take off the glycerol and process the oil/ester with methanol and sulphuric acid as catalyst. This will give you a very high ester content. The amount of acid added has to be calculated upon the original FFA value, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 22, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Jan, You wrote: The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. I have been blending the WVO I collect - titration of 2 - 3 g of 90%KOH/L. I recently ran a 76L batch of poor quality WVO . It titrated at 5.5g of 90%KOH/L. For the first time in months, the BD I produced failed the methanol quality test not bad, but there were tiny buggers that did not dissolve. I have been troubled by the failed test. I have never used WVO that titrated above 4g 90% KOH/L. 1. Is it reasonable assume that the failure to make quality BD was due to the poor quality of the WVO I used? 2. What pre-treatment would be appropriate? Tom - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 21, 2006 10:39 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] tirating a virgin oil Hello Emre, Rafal et al. I have to say that I partially disagree with some of your statements. The limit of FFA for a flawless trans-esterification is drawn at 5mg KOH/g of oil. Any value above will demand pre-treatment of the oil. It is always important to check the water content, which should be below 0,5%. Try to get hold of a water-in-oil test kit for quick determination. If we are talking about the EN standard, it is always necessary to process the oil/catalyst/methanol mix for 90 minutes to obtain the right values for tri- di- and monoglycerides. And - this assumes that you have correct stochiometric conditions and no methanol losses during processing. As for the phophatides and the chlorophyll compounds, my experience is that these are not very important for the processing result, unless the values of these are extremely high (thousands of ppms). If so, the oil is usually very dark. Totally refined oil, on the other hand, may have preservatives added, and some of these will eat catalyst. So, good oil quality is a tricky thing. Best of luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] phosphatide content in crude oil
Hello Subbu. Since used cooking oil from the beginning probably consists from refined oil, the phosphatetide content should be 1%. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 12:03 PM Subject: [Biofuel] phosphatide content in crude oil Hi friends, Could someone please tell me how much phosphatide is normally present in used cooking oil. Many thanks regards Subbu Water saving tip: Use a watering can on your garden. A hose can use up to 540 litres an hour - nearly as much as a family of four in a day. For more gardening tips, visit our website: - www.thameswateruk.co.uk/waterwise RWE Thames Water plc, Registered Office Clearwater Court, Vastern Road, Reading, Berkshire, RG1 8DB. Registered No. 2366623. This e-mail is confidential and intended solely for the use of the individual to whom it is addressed. Any views or opinions presented are solely those of the author and do not necessarily represent those of RWE Thames Water plc or its subsidiaries. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail you may not copy, use, forward or disclose its contents to any other person ; please notify our Computer Service Desk on +44 (0)118 9593587 and destroy and delete the message and attachments from your system. For more information on RWE Thames Water visit our web site at http://www.rwethameswater.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the full Biofuel list archives (46,000 messages): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Search the Biofuels-biz list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuels-biz/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] How would any of you answer this one?
More answers: Even as we speak the green house effect will cause seriuos climate changes. It does not matter whether the carbon dioxide is generated from fossile oil, fossile gas or coal. As long as we maintain our dependence on fossile energy this development will proceed. Concerning the nuclear power, it is a fairytale to believe that somebody can guarantee safe keeping of nuclear waste for at least 1.000 years ahead. The more we adapt to atomic power, the more waste, the bigger the fairytale. And even if technology in the future will allow recycling of nuclear waste, splitting atoms to generate electricity brings dangerous radiation and another serious nuclear power plant accident will take place sooner or later. Did anybody know that the nuclear power plants in Sweden are un-insured ? There is no insurance company willing to take the risk of a nuclear accident ! Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: bmolloy To: Biofuel Sent: Thursday, June 02, 2005 4:24 AM Subject: [Biofuel] How would any of you answer this one? Hi Michael, Re your quote from Herron as follows:snip Our only real sources of useful and practical energy are oil, gas, coal and nuclear. It's true that our oil supply will eventually decrease, but coal is nearly inexhaustible and newer methods of processing it eliminate the smoke and by-products. Nuclear is the energy of the future and must be de-politicized. It will be totally clean, very economical and inexhaustible. In the meantime let's stop hindering our search for oil, including Alaska, off-shore and on federal lands. Firstly, our uses of, and search for sources of energy are limited only by our imagination. Our current love affair with oil and other fossil fuels is but a temporary aberration. Necessity will force us to use of renewables. Wind energy is but one, solar another, tidal energy is at present almost unharnessed, geothermal (just drill a hole in your backyard and keep going down until you reach useable heat - the New Zealanders currently lead the world in geothermal power) equally so. There are many other completely renewable and environmentally supportive means of energy production, but that is not the nub of this post. I wish only to address the statement that nuclear is the energy of the future. Not only is this not the case. Use of this form of power would eventually remove the possibility of any future at all for the human race.As evidence, I offer the following blast from a medical doctor when the Australian government recently toyed with the idea of nuclear power Nuclear Power Isn't Clean; It's Dangerous - and Uneconomic By Dr. Helen Caldicott Among the many departures from the truth by opponents of the Kyoto protocol, one of the most invidious is that nuclear power is "clean" and, therefore, the answer to global warming. However, the cleanliness of nuclear power is nonsense. Not only does it contaminate the planet with long-lived radioactive waste, it significantly contributes to global warming.While it is claimed that there is little or no fossil fuel used in producing nuclear power, the reality is that enormous quantities of fossil fuel are used to mine, mill and enrich the uranium needed to fuel a nuclear power plant, as well as to construct the enormous concrete reactor itself. Indeed, a nuclear power plant must operate for 18 years before producing one net calorie of energy. (During the 1970s the United States deployed seven 1,000-megawatt coal-fired plants to enrich its uranium, and it is still using coal to enrich much of the world's uranium.) So, to recoup the equivalent of the amount of fossil fuel used in preparation and construction before the first switch is thrown to initiate nuclear fission, the plant must operate for almost two decades. But that is not the end of fossil fuel use because disassembling nuclear plants at the end of their 30- to 40-year operating life will require yet more vast quantities of energy. Taking apart, piece by radioactive piece, a nuclear reactor and its surrounding infrastructure is a massive operation: Imagine, for example, the amount of petrol, diesel, and electricity that would be used if the Sydney Opera House were to be dismantled. That's the scale we're talking about. And that is not the end of fossil use because much will also be required for the final transport and longterm storage of nuclear waste generated by every reactor. From a medical perspective, nuclear waste threatens global health. The toxicity of many elements in this radioactive mess is long-lived. Strontium 90, for example, is tasteless, odorless, and invisible and remains radioactive for 600 years. Concentrating in the food chain, it emulates the
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel
Hello Purbo. It all depends on the car or the effort and interest put in by the car manufacturer. What kind of car do you have ? Nine times out of ten it´s a question of hosing. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Purbo J. Wignjosajono To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:44 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel Dear All, I read the owner's manual of my car whose engine is a Direct Injection Intercooled Turbo Diesel and found out that biodiesel fuel made of rapeseed is not allowed to be used. Does anybody knows the reason? Regards, Purbo J. W. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel
Hello Purbo. I suggest that you ask your dealer what will happen if you fill biodiesel. Is it a question of rubber qualities orare there electric obstacles ? Some cars have a valve which closes if it does not recognize the incoming fuel as fuel. Best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Purbo J. Wignjosajono To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 12:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel Hi Jan, Thank you for responding. My car is a 2001 Renault Scenic 1.9 dTi with a Direct Injection Intercooled Turbo Diesel engine. The manual mention that "rapeseed oil must not be used in any cirscumtance". I am not whether it is rapeseed oil or biodiesel made of rapeseed oil. PJW - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 1:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel Hello Purbo. It all depends on the car or the effort and interest put in by the car manufacturer. What kind of car do you have ? Nine times out of ten it´s a question of hosing. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Purbo J. Wignjosajono To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2005 2:44 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biodiesel Dear All, I read the owner's manual of my car whose engine is a Direct Injection Intercooled Turbo Diesel and found out that biodiesel fuel made of rapeseed is not allowed to be used. Does anybody knows the reason? Regards, Purbo J. W. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] NaOH
Hello Marc. If your NaOH is not anhydrous, you should not use it at all. The best way of finding out the water content is to ask your dealer (or his supplier) for a certificate of analysis, where the actual NaOH content along with the impurities should be stated properly. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Marc Arends To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 13, 2005 9:52 AM Subject: [Biofuel] NaOH Hello all, I have a questions before i want to start with making my first test batch with the single stage method. I bought NaOH from a hardware store, but it looks white so it is not pure. Does somebody know how i can mesure the moisture content of this NaOH so i can compensate for all this water? (I can use an oven at my work that canreach1000 degrees Celsius). Greetings, Marc ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Lyn. Yes, you are missing something. The main problem with SVO as diesel engine fuel is not the high viscosity, but the final boiling point and the low cetane number. Elsbett system have taken action before these disadvantages and have designed a dual air system in the combustion chamber of the piston. This makes it possible to combust SVO completely, since the outer air layer isolates from the inner air layer, where the combustion temperature is high enough. And although the engine is directly injected, it is equipped with pre-chamber injectors, on which coke will form, but works self-cleansing due to the typical design of pre-chamber injectors. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Lyn Gerry [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 25, 2005 9:53 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Don't get some two-tank system that probably has copper parts in it and all it does is pre-heat the oil to lower the viscosity, there's a lot more to it than that, even with a Merc. forgetting to) - switch on and go, stop and switch off, SVO, biodiesel or petro-diesel, in any combination. We've had a two-tank system for a couple of years but we never used it. I just didn't think it addressed the problem fully, and the more I learnt the more I thought so. A few months ago we installed a single-tank Elsbett system in our Toyota TownAce and we're most pleased with it. It does exactly what it claims to do, as we fully expected. http://www.elsbett.com Best wishes Keith On 25 Jun 2005 at 8:46, John Hayes wrote: You have the 'SVO destroyed my TDI' folks. And the 'SVO is just fine' pollyannas. I went to the TDIclub site as well. I probably only saw a fraction of the posts, and what I saw made me realize that I didn't really do Mike's question justice with my previous answer, so this will be long in an attempt to provide more substantive info. I researched WVO for a while and decided upon the Jetta TDI, which I bought specifically with the intent of doing a WVO conversion. I chose the Jetta even though the golf or beetle would have been more to my personal taste, because the consensus seemed to be that it was desirable to isolate the WVO tank from the passenger area because the tank is heated - a hot metal tank of oil being not the most desirable presence in a passenger compartment There are a variety of systems and kits and ways that people have done these conversions and I have no doubt people have ruined their TDI's with WVO. The TDI has very close tolerances, also why it its such a high performance engine. From what I have gathered, gumming up the injectors with WVO is one of the serious risks. Critical issues in the system then are well filtered WVO and that it be HOT. Just to clarify matters for any readers, a WVO system is a 2 tank system. Do not ever consider just pouring WVO into your regular fuel tank - that will destroy your TDI. The system I have has : a heated WVO tank and fuel lines (the lines are heated by being bundled beside a line filled with engine coolant) , a filter for the WVO (which has already been prefiltered the remove the obvious particulate fryer gunk before being put in the tank) This filter should be replaced approximately every 2000 miles, and a PURGE switch. The purge switch is a very important part of the system. It is used when switching *back* to diesel from WVO. It pushes the WVO out of the lines and injectors. If you purge for too long, you begin to suck diesel fuel into your WVO tank, but ithat's not really not a problem. The *problem* in a WVO system *without* a purge function arises because, if the WVO is not completely cleared from the engine components , you will begin to dump some WVO into the diesel tank when you shut off the car. After a while, your diesel will be contaminated with WVO. The reason why this is a problem is because your diesel tank is not heated and the WVO is too viscous at room
Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel
Hello Keith. The system that I am referring to is described at: http://www.elsbett.com/engl/index.htm Technology/ 4. The ELSBETT duothermic combustion system. Quoting: Only by combining the above mentioned elements it is possible to achieve the optimum thermal and mechanical conditions required for the combustion of fuels, such as natural vegetable oils, which are slow to vaporise. These guys have a lot of know-how which is highly relevant for the combustion of SVO:s. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, June 26, 2005 6:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] VW Diesel Hello Jan Hello Lyn. Yes, you are missing something. The main problem with SVO as diesel engine fuel is not the high viscosity, but the final boiling point and the low cetane number. Elsbett system have taken action before these disadvantages and have designed a dual air system in the combustion chamber of the piston. This makes it possible to combust SVO completely, since the outer air layer isolates from the inner air layer, where the combustion temperature is high enough. And although the engine is directly injected, it is equipped with pre-chamber injectors, on which coke will form, but works self-cleansing due to the typical design of pre-chamber injectors. Are you talking about the original Elsbett 3-cylinder multifuel diesel engine? Best wishes Keith Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB jan at carryon.se + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - I went to the site that Keith recommended and it looks fantastic. What this maker Elsbett sells is a one tank system you can put anything from WVO to Dino into. If such a system exists, why are people bothing to make biodiesel? It would be easier, more ecological, economical etc to just use vegetable oil. I think about this problem both in the ecolological sense and the Peak oil sense. Particularly with the latter, the fewer things you have to buy, the less exposure you have to being gouged by corporations exploiting scarcity. Anyone with access to a few acres of land and a home made oil press can create fuel out of a variety of easy to grow crops. Am I missing something? Lyn Elsbett. See: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svo.html Straight vegetable oil as diesel fuel Don't get some two-tank system that probably has copper parts in it and all it does is pre-heat the oil to lower the viscosity, there's a lot more to it than that, even with a Merc. forgetting to) - switch on and go, stop and switch off, SVO, biodiesel or petro-diesel, in any combination. We've had a two-tank system for a couple of years but we never used it. I just didn't think it addressed the problem fully, and the more I learnt the more I thought so. A few months ago we installed a single-tank Elsbett system in our Toyota TownAce and we're most pleased with it. It does exactly what it claims to do, as we fully expected. http://www.elsbett.com Best wishes Keith On 25 Jun 2005 at 8:46, John Hayes wrote: You have the 'SVO destroyed my TDI' folks. And the 'SVO is just fine' pollyannas. I went to the TDIclub site as well. I probably only saw a fraction of the posts, and what I saw made me realize that I didn't really do Mike's question justice with my previous answer, so this will be long in an attempt to provide more substantive info. I researched WVO for a while and decided upon the Jetta TDI, which I bought specifically with the intent of doing a WVO conversion. I chose the Jetta even though the golf or beetle would have been more to my personal taste, because the consensus seemed to be that it was desirable to isolate the WVO tank from the passenger area because the tank is heated - a hot metal tank of oil being not the most desirable presence in a passenger compartment There are a variety of systems and kits and ways that people have done these conversions and I have no doubt people have ruined their TDI's with WVO. The TDI has very close tolerances, also why it its such a high performance engine. From what I have gathered, gumming up the injectors with WVO is one of the serious risks. Critical issues in the system then are well filtered WVO and that it be HOT. Just to clarify matters for any readers, a WVO system is a 2 tank system. Do not ever consider just pouring WVO into your regular fuel tank - that will destroy your TDI. The system I have has : a heated WVO tank and fuel lines (the lines are heated by being bundled beside a line filled with engine coolant) , a filter for the WVO (which has already been prefiltered the remove the obvious particulate
Re: [Biofuel] BD process question
Hello Joe. The cloudiness is most likely caused by water or water soluble substances. A simple way of approaching your problem is to put your mini batch into water about 60-65oC, and let it stay there for a few hours. If it becomes clear, let it stay there for some additional time. If it does not become clear, try washing it again several times with water only and repeat the hot water procedure. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 28, 2005 3:26 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD process question Hello, I have a question about biodiesel processing I hope someone can help me with; I read the excellent info on the journey to forever site and checked the archives about washing etc. I am interested in using mechanical agitation to speed up the process of washing but I wonder if I am being too impatient or something. Some background on what I am doing I have been using the single stage process so far. I started to learn with virgin canola oil and then went to waste canola oil from a local pub. In every case I have done my titrations carefully using a good quality burette and stock KOH solution carefully mixed using a laboratory grade electronic scale and DI water. When I did the 1 liter test batches I got a clean split with only 2 layers and after 4 washes with acetic acid on the first one I have ended up with BD that is cloudy. After heating the BD for drying it became spectrally clear and remained that way after cooling. I had given an extended waiting time of more than a week to see if it would clarify on it's own but this did not happen. After the clarification by heating I took it down to the freezing point and it remained clear after thawing. Then I did my first 5 gallon batch in a water heater. My reractor is a vacuum type and I use a circulation pump for mixing and washing etc. Again I obtained a good clear split but this time the BD clarified after heating (began to clear at about 50 deg. C. and I heated it to 135 deg C.) and I was shocked to see it cloudy the following day after it cooled. I reheated again this time to 170 deg. C. and it was better after cooling but not near as clear as the other 1 liter test batches. So questions: What is it exactly that causes the cloudiness? Is it water content? I notice the BD from the test batches after all is done has a smell similar to oil based paint or linseed oil but had a much sweeter aromatic smell while it was being heated. The large batch more so. Is this due to residual methanol (which I thought I completely removed after the reaction using vacuum distillation at 55 deg C and 25 in Hg)? Does the cloudiness indicate that the reaction was not correct (excess caustic?) I didn't have a problem with soaps. Any recommendations? Thanks in advance for any help you can offer Joe ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel and WVO in all liquid cooled Diesel
Hello Richard. Good of you to bring up these thoughts. Diesel oil is a mixture of a number of hundreds different hydrocarbons, which together have the properties as stated in the standards. This means that the properties and the composition of diesel oil will differ depending upon which diesel standard is current. Diesel engine oil is not homogenous. The engine manufacturers have solved this problem by using a special reference diesel fuel for their calibrations and conformity regulations. Biodiesel is usually methyl esters of fatty acids. There are different standards for this, for instance the ASTM norm as well as the EN 14214 norm. There are test methods stated in these standards which the biodiesel should fulfil. That´s it. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Richard Rovinsky [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 11, 2005 2:58 AM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel and WVO in all liquid cooled Diesel I believe you need to ask someone who knows more about biodiesel and the equipment you are powering with it. Of course, the safe answer given by anyone who doesn't know will be no. Investigate their knowledge of biodiesel before asking that question. I think the real answer is...it depends. What is biodiesel specifically? What tests has it passed? Chemically speaking, diesel is diesel is diesel once it is processed. The quality of the processes used to generate a quality product is what you should be investigating, I believe. Any additional byproducts included in the biodiesel may be cause for precautions (due diligence in investigation followed by appropriate courses of action). Since there are so many sources and levels of care taken to make it, they may be right in some cases. Are you planning use it in cold weather, where it might become too thick? So, you may need to blend it with dinodiesel. Has the biodiesel you plan to use been tested to meet any automovitive quality tests for purity, contaminants, particle/size? You may need to test your Biodiesel to be sure, otherwise, you may just take a chance. From what I understand, biodiesel will generally act as a solvent and release any accumulations of dinodiesel residue that may have built up in the tanks of older equipment, and so you may need to inspect and change filters more often, initially. Hope this provides some food for thought. Richard __ Do You Yahoo!? Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] glycerine ?
Yes ,it most certainly will. Glycerine residues will have an impact on the equivalence balance for next reaction, that most probably will produce less biodiesel. Contaminations in general are not good for biodiesel production either. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: alex burton To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, July 15, 2005 10:07 AM Subject: [Biofuel] glycerine ? Hello All I have a question about glycerine. what is the effect if after i have made biodiesel and let it settel in the prossesor but there is still a small amout of glycerine left in the prossesor after i have drained it and then make another batch will the glycerine that is left in the prossesor have a negative result on the next batch?Thanks for the advice Alex ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] theoretical and practical questions
Hello Marc. The method that you are referring to, mixing BD with water in equal proportions seems to me a dubious method of determining the state of the BD. If the BD contains small amounts of detergents (common in used cooking oil) the phases will separate very slowly or not at all. Furthermore, the BD is slightly polar, which means that it will attract some water during all conditions. And - small amounts of di- and monoglycerides will also slow the separation process. This goes concerning any remaining soaps as well. A good visual hint to ready biodiesel is when the last washing water is clear and bright. This does not mean that the BD is, for the reasons mentioned above. The question about GC catalyst I cannot answer, sorry. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Marc Arends [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 12:32 AM Subject: [Biofuel] theoretical and practical questions Hello All, I am a beginner with biodiesel and i did a lot of reading the last few months and i did quite some test batches with unused sunflower oil with the single stage method (as is advised). Now i have some practical questions and theoretical questions. Practical questions: When you are finished with making the BD (ready to put in the car) and you take a small sample of this and shake it with an equal amount of water in a glass jar the water and BD separate, should the BD layer be completey clean and clear after few minutes? How can you test if your final product is good enough to put in you car? I also have some questions about washing my test batches. As i am a chemist and work in a laboratory all my test batches were made in laboratory conditions. After separating the glycerol layer from the BD layer, i washed the BD 3 times with water. Then i filtered the BD over a coffee filter and the BD looked really nice (clean, clear). But when i shake this BD with water again, the BD layer looks not clear again, and it looks like there is still soap in it. How do you know when you are finished washing the BD and should i filter it after every wash? Theoretical problems As i live in Holland and it can get very could in winter, i am also interested in the 2 stage method because BD made with the 2 stage method works better in colder conditions. But what is the chemical difference between BD made with the single stage and BD with the second stage? In my laboratory we also analyze fatty acids and we also make FAME to analyze with GC. The difference with making BD and FAME to analyze with GC is that we also add Borotrifluoride-methanol complex as a catalyst for...? Nobody at my jobs does know why and i asked 2 PhD in organic chemistry but they also don't know. So does anyone know why this catalyst is added and what it does exactly. Would it help us to when processing our BD? Hopefully someone can help me. Greetings, Marc I ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD
The thermal stability problems with biodiesel mainly occurs when the biodiesel consists from highly unsaturated fatty acids. When mixing it with DINO, the problem should disappear, because a good diesel stock should be treated with anti-oxidating agents. These agents can be added to the biodiesel directly, of course. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Arden B. Norder [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 19, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD Reading this is beginning to make me nervous. I have been researching biodiesel production and considering building around biodiesel and glycerin. I have only one question (mainly because I was planning to run B100): When can/should I run B100 without blowing up my engine or meltin my fuel lines or gumming up the fuel pump and injectors. I am totally in love with my Peugeot HDi diesel - I don't want to end its' life prematurely. HELP!!! Greetings, Arden On Jul 19, 2005 01:49 AM, James G. Branaum [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In one of my many conversations with a fuels specialist, he strongly suggested that BD has some thermal stability problems when used in over a 10% mix with Petro. He has the degree and over 20 years experience in the field since I first met him. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 18, 2005 4:47 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD - Original Message - From: Doug Memering [EMAIL PROTECTED] Date: Saturday, July 16, 2005 9:40 pm Subject: [Biofuel] Re: CUMMINS B5.9TD Any of which can be replaced on an as needed basis. Terry's mechanic should be a little more specific with him, rather than issuing a sweeping and perhaps unsupported statement. Perhaps I can shed some light on this topic, as I am an engineer at Cummins Inc, and work in Fuel System Development. Officially, Cummins supports Biodiesel blends up to B5 or 5% Biodiesel.There are several concerns the company has with higher ratio blends. There are three major areas of concerns that the company has. These are mostlycommercial concerns which will be evident as I explain them any of which an individual could deal with by being aware and careful about what they put into their tank. First, while biodiesel is touted as being cleaner, there are some caveats.While the particulate emissions (the ones you can see) are considerablyimproved with biodiesel, the NOx emmission will increase and the higher the biodiesel ratio the higher the NOx increases. Up to B5 the increase will not likely move the engine's NOx emissions beyond the federal limit, but B20 and higher will likely move the NOx emissions outside of the box. Since the US tends to hold the manufacturers repsonsible for the emissions of the engines instead of the users the company must maintain a strict policy against recommending or accepting fuels that will violate the regulations. Second, biodiesel has a lower heating value than Petro diesel, therefore the higher the biodiesel blend the lower the available power from the engine.Most vehicles with B5.9 diesel are substantially overpowered so the driver may not notice the 2% loss of power with a B5 blend, but it will become more noticeable as the ratio is increased. As I said many of the vehicles, especially pickups are overpowered for the job they do, so you it wouldlikely not be bothered unless you are street racing or pulling a large (heavy) trailer through the mountains. But once again as a company Cummins is in the position that if the sell a 305 Hp engine and the customers tend to expect to get 305 Hp regardless of what fuel they chose to put in the tank. The third and more serious concern for us homegrown biodieselers, in my opinion, is water. Most tanks collect water, many vehicles are equippedwith water separation filters to protect the fuel system components. The problem is the biodiesel has a higher affinity for water than petrol diesel, so the biodiesel is going to carry the water out of the tank. Furthermore,the water separators that are normally used will NOT extract the water from biodiesel so the water gets carried into the fuel system. Most modern fuel systems are very sensitive to water. The engine will run initially but the internal fuel system components will quickly corrode which will lead to a fuel system failure, and usually an expensive one. The company is also concerned about the quality of the biodiesel coming on the market. They have a wide variety from some very high quality to some very poor quality
[Biofuel] Fw: Lipase
Jan Warnqvist +46 554 201 89+ 46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2005 4:31 PM Subject: Lipase Hello all, does anybody have a good link to a supplier of industrial lipase enzyme ? Jan Warnqvist +46 554 201 89+ 46 70 499 38 45 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methanol
Hello Ian. Answer #1: Methanol attracts water. So, old methanol is not anhydrous, which it has to when producing biodiesel. Answer#2: Yes, but it takes a little longer. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ian Theresa Sims To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: [Biofuel] methanol I was talking toa friend that races cars and he said that methanol kept for a long??time degraded and didn't work as well. Is this a problem for us? As a matter of interest does biodiesel make the sump oil in your car go as black as dinodiesel? Cheers Ian ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] methanol
Yes, old methanol is always a problem. Both for speedway racers and for biodiesel producers. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ian Theresa Sims To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 3:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol Thanks Jan But is that a yes or a no on question 1 - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 12:20 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] methanol Hello Ian. Answer #1: Methanol attracts water. So, old methanol is not anhydrous, which it has to when producing biodiesel. Answer#2: Yes, but it takes a little longer. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ian Theresa Sims To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 10:49 AM Subject: [Biofuel] methanol I was talking toa friend that races cars and he said that methanol kept for a long??time degraded and didn't work as well. Is this a problem for us? As a matter of interest does biodiesel make the sump oil in your car go as black as dinodiesel? Cheers Ian ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG Anti-Virus.Version: 7.0.338 / Virus Database: 267.10.4/66 - Release Date: 9/08/2005 ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
Hello Ian, if treated with anti-oxidizing agents, and produced from oil with a moderate peroxide number, the biodiesel should be consumed within three months. 10 microns is a normal filter size for diesel engines, unless equipped with a common-rail system. So, filtering at 10 microns is good, 5 microns even better assuming that the biodiesel has an abnormal content of solids which will lead to filter clogging very rapidly. Pay attention to the markings "absolute" and "nominal" on the filter spec. There is a huge difference between those two. The biodiesel should be ready for instant consumption if it´s clear and bright and without sediments. With best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Ian Theresa Sims To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:59 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production. Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in? Cheers Ian ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question
Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. And - possibly annoying Keith - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 9:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: A beginners titration question Hello Doug Hello group, I am a beginner in the conversion of WVO to BD and I have been having trouble with my titration process. On JTF there are 2 reference documents on titration which I have been using as my guide. There's more than that there about titration. However, I don't seem to get consistent results. For example, One time I will get 1.55ml and the second time I get 3.22 ml using WVO from the same batch and drawing from the same solution of NaOH and water. First is that kind of variability to be expected? No. Second I noticed in reviewing the tritration documents again, that isopropyl alcohol is specifed. But how could you not have noticed that the first time round? Everywhere is says so. I have been using the same methanol that I use in the conversion process. Prefacing this with I ain't no chemist, Is that the source of my problem? If that is the case can someone explain why the titration is done with one type of alcohol when the process is run with a different one? I also ain't no chemist, very few of us are chemists, but we can learn, and do. I can't give you a technical comparison of the effects of different alcohols, but why depart from established practice when you're just starting? It doesn't make a lot of sense anyway, titration and processing have different purposes, with titration you're only finding out how much acid will have to be neutralised, not processing the WVO. The result of the titration is applied to the subsequent processing in the form of the amount of lye required, not the kind of alcohol to use. If you assume that the two different processes should use the same alcohol then why don't you also assume that they should use it in the same proportions? - ie 10 litres of 99%+ isopropyl alcohol per one litre of WVO to be processed? Anyway, it is possible to use isopropyl alcohol to make biodiesel, called branched-alkyl esters, which have the advantage of much improved cold-weather properties. There's discussion of this in the list archives, using either isopropyl alcohol or butanol. But it's not for homebrewers, though many have tried - it's laboratory-level stuff, patented but not used, nobody is using these techniques yet AFAIK. Also I seem to be having difficulty keeping the WVO and alcohol mixed during the titration process, which would be what I would attribute to the variation in the results. I don't think so. I have been carrying out the titration in a test tube and shaking it after each drop, but the oil still seems to settle out. Stirring is better. Did you warm the mixture first (and the 0.1% NaOH solution)? Use something wider than a test tube that you can stir. And even when they are mixed it is a cloudy white solution, not clear as the JTF documents indicate. They do not indicate that. What they say is that it should be clear (thoroughly mixed) BEFORE you start adding the 0.1% NaOH solution. Warm the beaker gently by standing it in some hot water, stir until all the oil dissolves in the alcohol and turns clear. Add 2 drops of phenolphthalein solution. Using a graduated syringe, add 0.1% lye solution drop by drop to the oil-alcohol-phenolphthalein solution, stirring all the time, until the solution starts to turn pink and stays that way for 10 seconds. ... Biodiesel from waste oil http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_make.html#biodwvo Dissolve 1 gram of lye in 1 liter of distilled or de-ionized water (0.1% w/v lye solution). In a smaller beaker, dissolve 1 ml of dewatered WVO oil in 10 ml of pure isopropyl alcohol. Warm
Re: [Biofuel] Quality Test
Hello Jeffery. The test method that you are using seems to me highly dubious, since there are a number of pre-assumptions that has to be met. For a further check I´d suggest this: Take exactly 25 ml of biodiesel and dissolve it in exactly 225 ml of methanol in a measuring glass. Now: The biodiesel should be fully soluble in the methanol forming a clear bright phase. If not, there is pollution in the biodiesel causing you trouble with the water test. Each ml of undissolved material is corresponding to 4% by volume. Are there any undissolved material at the bottom of the measuring glass ? If there is, your reaction is not complete and this is causing you trouble with the water test. This method does not cover every aspect of quality, but it gives a hint though Good luck to you Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Quality Test Hello all. Need some explanation and advise here on my experiments please. I have been using virgin cooking palm oil for the experiments. When following the steps for checking on quality, I put in 150ml of de ionised battery water and 150ml of the biodiesel obtained but the end result was clear yellowish liquid on top and white emulsion like on the bottom. I have done 3 different batches with the same result. My further reading and guess is either the NaOH is too much/little or the methanol is too much/little. My next step will probably to increase the methanol from 200ml to 400ml (my batches are in 1 liter of new oil). Any comments or suggestions from the gurus out there? Can I continue with the bubble washing process with the above 3 test batches? Jeff _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Re: A beginners titration question
Hello again Doug. The forming of FFA in the presence of water is an auto-catalyst process, meaning that the more FFA:s there are, the more rapidly the further production of FFA:s. This is due to the fact that this is an acid-catalyst reaction which will continue for as long as there is water present in adequate amounts. The FFA and water values are in general higher at the bottom of the vessel, the other way around at the top. WVO often contains detergents because the cleansing of the frying oil vessels at the restaurants or factories is done with detergents and water. Some people pour this stuff into the used oil. The best way of avoiding this, is of course to let the WVO supplier know that the detergent - containing WVO is of scientifically less value, since the detergents are contaminations and cause a great deal of troubles. The other way of dealing with this is to vacuum -evaporate the WVO at 90oC, where the emulsions should break up. The third way is to reduce the water content and react the WVO in the normal way, adding further washing sequences and expecting a lower yield of biodiesel than usual.Any soap formation can be scattered with acid treatment. IPA is a good solvent for titration, unlike methanol or ethanol, which are hardly soluble in oil. I think you have a good base recipe. Do not change it, before you have examined the quality of your raw material. The solution to your problems is most likely to be found there. With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Doug Memering [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 3:50 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Re: A beginners titration question Jan, Thanks for the help. Hello Doug. Keith has made an excellent input to you questions but I felt it necessary to add some aspects of your problem: The rule no1 when taking samples is to make sure - as possible- that the sample is representative for the batch. This sounds simple, but if you are I am still working with fairly small batches so I have been drawing the complete batch out of my holding tank and then taking the test sample from that. I have been titrating that batch multiple times and getting the variation even from that. dealing with high water content together with high FFA levels you will have Does water content itself cause variation or is it changes in the amount of water content that would cause the variation in the titration? different titration values if sampled from the top or from the bottom. If there are detergents in the oil, this actually may help. It is a Detergents? What's the likelihood of picking up detergents in the WVO from a restaurant? Is this something I should watch for or is it simply a matter of more washing? disadvantage when washing the biodiesel though. By using IPA for titration, the general idea is to have one clear phase consisting from IPA, water, KOH (or NaOH) and oil. The EN standard for determination of acid number which is likewise determined by titration strongly recommends that the amount of IPA should be increased if the solution becomes cloudy or turbid. The solution was definitely turbid, but Keith's recommendation (unlike James Bond) was to do the test in a beaker or jar rather than a test tube so that it could be stirred and not shaken By using methanol for titration, you are out of standard procedure. When I started out I got a titration procedure from another site, before I found JTF. The procedures were nearly identical except in the list of what you needed it said to use either Isopropyl, Ethyl, or Methyl. Since I had already invested in a bunch of Methyl alcohol for this adventure and didn't have any isopropyl on hand I started using it. My limited college chemistry had me in the frame of mind that a solvent is a solvent. That's why I asked for an explanation. I can see where the my results could be shifted by what alcohol I am using but it didn't make sense to me that the type of alcohol would cause the huge variation in the test. And - possibly annoying Keith - the EN requirement for a good titration is that the solution stays magenta for at least 15 seconds. This was happening, there was a distinctive cross-over point where the solution would turn magenta for like 10 seconds and then fade to pink. It is just that event happened at substantially different amounts of NaOH. Heating was mentioned as well, and that could be a part of my problem too. I was heating the WVO then mixing it with the alcohol which was at about 95F. I didn't hear the reagent either. I gather they should all be near the process temperature. Thanks again Good luck to you further on ! With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http
Re: [Biofuel] Quality Test
Hello Jeffery, the clear phase at the bottom is likely unreacted oil. It seems likely that your oil has contaminations which inhibit the trans-esterification reaction. Do not change your recipe at first hand, get yourself a little oil that you know is OK, maybe from the supermarket and try your recipe on that one by following the instructions on YTF including the titration. When settled and washed go through the methanol extraction method again and compare the results. Get back to me and report. Add the recipe that you are working with too. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 11:52 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quality Test Jan, Thanks for the tip. We tried it and without stirring, there were clear yellow deposit on the bottom. The biodiesel did not disolve fully in the methanol like you said. So does this mean the next time I do another batch, I have to increase the methanol to the sodium? Any suggestion? Jeff From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Quality Test Date: Thu, 11 Aug 2005 18:51:02 +0200 Hello Jeffery. The test method that you are using seems to me highly dubious, since there are a number of pre-assumptions that has to be met. For a further check I´d suggest this: Take exactly 25 ml of biodiesel and dissolve it in exactly 225 ml of methanol in a measuring glass. Now: The biodiesel should be fully soluble in the methanol forming a clear bright phase. If not, there is pollution in the biodiesel causing you trouble with the water test. Each ml of undissolved material is corresponding to 4% by volume. Are there any undissolved material at the bottom of the measuring glass ? If there is, your reaction is not complete and this is causing you trouble with the water test. This method does not cover every aspect of quality, but it gives a hint though Good luck to you Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jeffrey Tan [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 2:19 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Quality Test Hello all. Need some explanation and advise here on my experiments please. I have been using virgin cooking palm oil for the experiments. When following the steps for checking on quality, I put in 150ml of de ionised battery water and 150ml of the biodiesel obtained but the end result was clear yellowish liquid on top and white emulsion like on the bottom. I have done 3 different batches with the same result. My further reading and guess is either the NaOH is too much/little or the methanol is too much/little. My next step will probably to increase the methanol from 200ml to 400ml (my batches are in 1 liter of new oil). Any comments or suggestions from the gurus out there? Can I continue with the bubble washing process with the above 3 test batches? Jeff _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ _ Express yourself instantly with MSN Messenger! Download today - it's FREE! http://messenger.msn.click-url.com/go/onm00200471ave/direct/01/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel College Courses
Hi all, interfering with basic physics: The mass of the object moving, is of outmost importance, since it takes more energy to move a heavy object than a less heavy one. This is mathematically most significant when moving the object up-hill. Compared to these circumstances, the rolling and wind resistances are of less importance to the energy consumption. Are you sure that you calculated your fuel consumption properly ? With best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Bede [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 11:48 AM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Biofuel College Courses depending on the speed your going a higher torque engine can cruise more effcently at a lower rpm than a smaller engine trying to do the same work at a higher rpm if the road is mainly flat, Then the only real diffrence between the 2 cars once up to highway speed is the the amount of effort to overcome the rolling and wind resistance. For such a long trip, things such as if you had a tailwind and your avg travling speed also make a big difrence. and then theres maunal, automatic trans mission and cruise control. What about MIT ? Bede -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Pablo Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 5:51 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: [Biofuel] Biofuel College Courses I am 18 and not sure where I want to go to college. I might take the year off, as it is so late to be signing up. My question for everyone is, does anyone here know of some good colleges, preferably in the New England area, that have specialty biofuel(or related) courses? That would be a great help to me. Also, I wanted to add an amazing discovery/question that I found this past week. I drive a 1992 honda civic. I just did a full tune up, including O2 sensor, plugs, wires, cap rotor, etc. I drove from FL to MA, and i got about 23 MPG. This is in a 1.5L engine in a car weighing maybe 1600 lbs fully loaded with 106 base HP. I then drove my father's car south( a 2000 Cadillac Deville), from Ma to FL, and got an amazing surprise : his 4.6L American engine with about 300 base HP pulling a car weighing maybe 3000Lbs empty got 28MPG. I also found that in the city, his car's gas mileage was 18 MPG, where mine is about 13. Now I admit to owning a foot of lead, but does anyone know how this is possible as i drove both vehicles, and with regular gas? The calculations were correct for MPG. Any input would be appreciated. ~ Paul ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] mercedes/dodge sprinter vans?
Hello all, according to the position of Daimler-Chrysler concerning the use of biodiesel in MB cars, the most recent information I have is similar to the one Lars Andersson has. But, it is merely a question of material compability. From the experiences from previous MB models I can vouch for that the problems are very small, if any at all ,with B100. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 16, 2005 6:37 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] mercedes/dodge sprinter vans? Lars Andersson wrote: We have a Mercedes Sprinter 316 CDI as a job van. I checked with the Swedish distributor about using biodiesel as fuel and they answered something undecided and then that maximum 5% was okey but they did not want any biodiesel at all in the fuel tank because it was possible to get 4% once and maybe 6% the next time !! I got an bit annoyed and checked with the German manufacturers who answered that because of materials used in the fuel system they did not allow any biodiesel at all with warranties unbroken.. Boring answer !! It is from late 2003 and company owned so i will not make any experiments with it.. It pulls a 1800 kg trailer like a dream at about 20-21 mpg. Lars A From: S. Chapin [EMAIL PROTECTED] Does anyone out there have have a (diesel) biofueled Sprinter aka 316 I think? We are considering one, a CDI 5cyl turbo mercedes, for general hauling. My feeling is that there will be no problems with even b100 (mild climate) but just to see thought of casting about on the list. Other than the ford and dodge diesel trucks (maybe 22hwy max) it's all I can find (in the US) that gets even close (pathetic really) to reasonable mileage (18-30) for the capacity. Also, a hemp bill before the congress, I've forgotten the #, needs support. A viable source of oil I understand, amoung other uses (recreational not amoung them). Also, dust off that old copy of Farenheit/9-11 and watch it again. I find dragging oneself back through the timeline tends to clear the cobwebs of CNN breaking news stories. Then a little from Iran-Contra and some Watergate hearing footage and if the blood hasnt risen to your rosey cheeks try some footage of Wallace, or Jesse Helms. Fool me once I looked into the Santa Cruz GM food ban and it looks like a response to GM efforts to circumvent state by state restrictions on GM experimental plantings. Stealth Monsanto. Cheers, S. Chapin Corralitos Creek Gardens ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Many Thanks Lars. I have a feeling that manufacturers, dealers and insurers are finding it possible to write off warranties because of BD use. I can imagine that in cold climates, with a thickened fuel it would put some strain on difertent elements, starters, glow plugs, CDI system... but okay maybe b50 or even b10. And perhaps there is some reluctance because of the inconsistent quality of home brewed BD. The manual transmission trucks in the US have a lower tow capacity than the auto trans simply because they dont want to cover clutch work on warranty because the driver may not know how to drive a manual trans without burning it up. So in the end it's a paperwork rule and, I would think, rarely an issue. What gets me is that BD is a better lubricant, hence lower wear, and cleaner hence less warranty claims, happier clients etc. but maybe, as with so many issues... the reality doesnt make much of an impression. I am glad to hear 20-21 with 1800 kg load. I think the lowest mpg advertised by Dodge is about 16 max load city driving for the 3500 van (dual rear wheels ). Thanks S.Chapin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Acids
Hello Robin et al. The acidic step is necessary for neutralisation of the biodiesel. But, basically any mineral acid can be used. The most common (and efficient ?) is concentrated sulphuric acid. Even hydrochloric acid can be used, however usually available as 35-36% solution. For neutralisation similar amounts of phosphoric and sulphuric acid are required, all according to the need for neutralisation. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Robin Pentney [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, March 12, 2007 9:49 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Acids Hi! Can anyone tell me what the purpose of the Phosphoric acid in the 'Foolproof method? I would like to try it (the method) but phosphoric is only made in Alberta by a fertilizer mfr just down the road from me, but they will only make enough for themselves. Rats! The oilfield creates a huge demand for it here, so the suppliers who ship it up from the states or from Winnipeg mark it up mercilessly. $158.00 for a 20 L pail! It is 75% so there's lots of diluting to do , but still Can I use another acid for the wash? Can you describe the reaction for me ( a neophyte ) In the wash process so I can fully understand it? I am striving to achieve the best quality fuel possible so that others will not be discouraged when if they see me sitting at the side of the road beside my car , with the hood up and my thumb out What would I dilute the 75% phosporic with? Distilled water? Tnx Robin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very beginning. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for years and he's just now experiencing problems? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Yes, he has. Once was enough. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 3:15 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels Ask him if he's replaced his fuel filter since switching to Biodiesel. On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:58 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He has consumed approx. 600 ltrs and encountered problems from the very beginning. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 2:36 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels But did he make the switch recently or has he been running biodiesel for years and he's just now experiencing problems? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 8:21 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: He is running on 100% BD and the problems began immedeately on the first tank of BD. - Original Message - From: John Beale To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 1:55 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels How long ago did he switch to biodiesel and is he running on 100% BD or a mix? John On Apr 23, 2007, at 7:09 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels
Hello Keith. He is in Sweden on rapeseed BD. But, as far as I remember, somebody in the US wrote about some similar problems with his Chevy. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, April 23, 2007 4:43 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chevy diesels Hello everybody in the New World and others. I have an aquintance who is running his Chevy 6,2 litre truck on biodiesel, and he experiences mysterious engine stops etc. The car will start immedeatly again after a few seconds. He suspects it to be a computer bug in the injection system.Anybody with similar problems ? AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist Where is he, Jan? In Sweden or in the US? In other words is he using rapeseed biodiesel or soy biodiesel? Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Off topic
Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas Luke the Juggler 614-764-8010 www.LuketheJuggler.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Change is good. See what’s different about Windows Live Hotmail. Check it out! ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Meth test (was Off topic)
Thank you Joe. The determination by mass will give you a more precise idea of the methyl ester content. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 7:59 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Hey Jan; Let me take the chance to thank you again for your contributions. Also I'd like to let you know how WE have evolved your idea. Me and this other dude in town ( who might be lurking herelol - it was his idea actually) have taken to doing some kind of variation on your idea which helps us in the middle of the process. I know you are talking about testing clean, washed and dried fuel, but check this out; We take a sample ( I have a small test tube so I use 3 ml of fuel and 27 ml meoh) after the reaction but before washing. I know this contains catalyst, soap, water and whatever BUT when I stir it up, any unreacted oil settles out very quickly and gives me a gauge of how close I came to a complete reaction. I can even measure the percentage of unreacted oil and use this to determine how much catalyst and methanol to hit the reactor with in order to complete the reaction. The unreacted stuff is treated as neutral oil when determining catalyst and methanol amounts ( ie 12% meoh v/v and 4.9 g/l koh) If I am good and the reaction was very complete the first time, then only a little white powder (soap/catalyst?) settles in the bottom and the rest is clear and bright. This is more useful than a pop bottle wash test IMHO. best regards Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas
Re: [Biofuel] pH meters
Yes, Andres Secco is right. If you want to determine the free acidity of the virgin oil, you should use titration. But if you want to determine the pH value of the finished biodiesel (which should be close to 7) a pH meter is handy. But the pH has to be measured in a water phase, e.g. 10% biodiesel in distilled water, Just make sure that you first let the biodiesel and water to mix properly and then separate compleatly after that. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 5:47 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH meters Why a pH meter Joshua?. Acidity does not makes sense in an oil phase. The right thing is to make a titration pH has no sense nor numeric sense in a non aqueous systems - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:35 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pH meters Hello, Im making some biodiesel and I'm having some difficulty finding a reasonably priced electronic pH meter to purchase so I can test the virgin oil and the resulting biodiesel. it would be appreciated if anyone with an answer or some knowledge in this area could steer me in the right direction. Joshua ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Yes of course. It is very flattering. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Sorry, there is a confusing definition error in the formula: m1 = is the amount of undissolved material as a result of the test. m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction m3 = is the amount of biodiesel soluble in methanol in % All the best Jan - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 04, 2007 6:44 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic)
Hello Peter. You forgot the first signs of the formula. It should be: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 In your case: 1 - 25/225 = 0,. There is also a definition error in the formula. m1 = the amount of undissolved material m2 = the amount of biodiesel put into the reaction m3= The amount of biodiesel that is dissolved in methanol in mass% Sorry about that. The proportions between methanol and biodiesel is carefully balanced in order to make the test reproducable. Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 3:33 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Meth test (was Off topic) Hi Keith and Jan ; I read this with interest but I am quite confused. Please can we start by exlaining the underlying basis for this test?? Is it that unreacted oil will not dissolve in methanol? Are we trying to dissolve the FAME in methanol and measure the remaining?? If we are, then why is it so important to measure exactly 225g methanol. Why wouldn't 250g be OK for example?? I can understand exactly 25g of biodiesel is necessary, but why exactly 225g methanol? Perhaps I missed this in a previous post. Then when I try an example with your formula I again get confused. Let's say we have perfect biodiesel. So this means all of if will dissolve in the methanol, right? By your formula : m3=m1/m2 m3=25g/225g m3= 0.1 So 0.111 is how much of the FAME is methyl esters for perfect FAME? What does this mean?? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand --- Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings Jan Sorry for the late reply. Just to add my vote of thanks - the methanol test is simple and useful, it's helped a lot of people. I'd like to add this development to the quality testing section at Journey to Forever, would you agree? All best Keith Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3. One magnetic stirrer 4. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Be a better Heartthrob. Get better relationship answers from someone who knows. Yahoo! Answers - Check it out. http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=listsid=396545433 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [Norton AntiSpam] Re: Off topic
There are a number of factors that in fluence the result of the trans-esterification. The general rule is that even if you have an extremly low content of tri-glycerides, you may still have di-glycerides or even, but seldom mono-glycerides out of spec. And this may be a sign of too low processing temperature. This subject demands more development than suited here, I´m afraid. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, June 05, 2007 8:23 PM Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [Biofuel] Off topic Hey Jan; Since the reaction proceeds in stages from TRi- to Di- to Mono-glycerides and then finally to esters, I'm wondering if there is a statistical relationship to the fractions?? In other words if we do a reaction and find 8% triglycerides remaining can we estimate the fractions of diglycerides and monoglycerides as well since they are unmeasureable with this test? Or would the ratios depend on what type of oil was being used and other factors such as FFA content? Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Dear all. I am very flattered that my methanol method had so much attention. Here is a development of the method: Equipment needed for the analysis 1.. One 250 ml separatory funnel 2.. One 400 ml beaker (Figure 2) 3.. One magnetic stirrer 4.. Balancer with 0,05g acc. 5.. One 50 ml narrowed neck E-flask Chemicals for the analysis 1. Water free methanol, min 225 g 2. FAME with water content less than 500 ppm, clear, bright and without visible impurities, min 25 g Take the clean beaker and put exactly 225 g of methanol in it. Then add exactly 25g of the biodiesel. Stir the fluids on the stirrer for 2 minutes. Take the beaker off the stirrer ans pour the content into the separation funnel.Take the clean e-flask to the balancer and tarate with the flask. Let any oil phase separate out from the biodiesel/methanol phase and put it in the e-flask. Weigh the content and calculate the result: 1 - m1/m2 = m3 where m1 is the mass of the biodiesel m2 is the amount of methanol m3 is how much of the biodiesel put in that is consisting from methyl esters. The method will show huch much of the material by mass that is soluble in methanol. This includes mostl mono- and diglycerides. The residue consists therefore mostly from unreacted oil. With best Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 29, 2007 6:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Hi Ray; Sorry for the delay. Try this forum for more information on Delicas. http://delica.ca/forum/index.php Joe raymond greeley wrote: I would like to see this van, what did you send it in. I have not been able to open ray -- Date: Wed, 23 May 2007 15:48:02 -0400 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Newbie Seeking Diesel Van Recommendations Look for a mitsubishi delica. A buddy of mine just imported one with low miles from Japan. He loves it. Joe Luke Kareklas wrote: Hello All, I am a Kid's Birthday Party Entertainer, as well as a Juggler, Magician, and Balloon Guy. I live in the Midwest, and have all 4 seasons during the year, if this is a helpful bit of information. Lately my entertainment business has gotten really busy and it's come time for me to buy a larger vehicle. I have been a fan of alternative fuels for years, but never pursued a diesel vehicle. I would like recommendations on what type of deisel van would you recommend that would most easily transfer over to a SVO, WVO, or biodiesel system for me to drive? I am looking for a 1/2 or 3/4 ton van, not really a minivan type of vehicle. Again, I am naive and new to all this and hope your thoughts will help ground me and get me pointed in the right direction. I guess I have to go buy a diesel vehicle before I can get moving on SVO, WVO, or Biodiesel fueling, right? Thank you very much. Luke Luke Kareklas Luke the Juggler 614-764-8010 www.LuketheJuggler.com ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel
Re: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH
If mixed thourghly the ions from the biodiesel will be more attracted to the water phase than the biodiesel phase. The pH value of the biodiesel will reflect in the water phase. So the water phase is the place to do the measurement in. With best regards Jan - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, June 09, 2007 4:54 PM Subject: [Biofuel] biodiesel pH hello, Yes, you are right Andres and Keith. I realise there is no need to measure pH of fresh oil, and to do a titration on the used oils instead, I was not specific enough. So when the wash water has a pH of 7, the biodiesel should also, as the ions should be equal in both solutions. is that right? By the way, whats virgin oil then? When doing the titration, as the 2 solutions of oil and methanol don't mix, do i just need to keep them vigorously shaken? Also would you suggest a pH meter for this step. Jan, When you say to use 10% biodiesel in 90% distiled water, mix, then let separate. Do you mean to test the biodiesel's or the water's pH? thankyou to all who replied. Josh. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor
Hello REXIS. The castor oil is highly questionable as a raw material for biodiesel production due to two important issues:: 1) The biodiesel from castor oil will have a too high viscosity well outside the specs. 2) The fatty acids of castor oil are very special and polymerize easily forming heavier compounds while releasing water. Unsuitable ? Yes. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Rexis Tree To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, June 11, 2007 11:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Jatropha vs Castor I had did some web study on Castor and Jatropha. Jatropha, being promoted as the perfect biodiesel crop by India, is receiving international highlights and many investors are interested or even start investing in planting this crop. This may spoil the original intension of promoting Jatropha, when large forest was cleared again to make way for Jatropha plantation rather then planting them on the wasteland or marginal land where india planned to do. Castor, the beautiful yet deadly seeds of castor, has been long used as an non edible oil source by mankind, as well as in other industrial application like paint, nylon, food addictive, lubricant, etc. And castor oil is a unuqie oil that it can completely dissolve in alcohol(not too sure what that means, no catalyst needed?). Our focus here is obviously biofuel. About which is the better choice for biodiesel. Similarity: - drought resistance - oily seeds sitable for fuel purpose - seed cake made an excellence manure - poisonious and therefore producing non eatable oil - a kind of weed Jatropha advantage - it is said that Jatropha would trive on all kind of soil even rocky soil - Higher oil yield - it can improve the soil quality Jatropha disadvantage - since it is relatively new crop therefore it was not well understood, and inaccurate yield figure estimation may harm profit, more research and real data required - Jatropha is suitable for India where large area of their land consist of arid wasteland, but may not be suitable to other country like those with lots of rain forest. Castor advantage - Castor oil is one of the oldest traded goods, mankind has been trading castor oil since a few thousand years ago - Castor oil has a lot of industrial usage, therefore a market is already exsistance, thou limited - Since it was cultivated before in commercial plantation, its biology is well understood, and high yield hybrid is available - Castor can be found in medium climate area as an annual crop or in tropical area as a small tree - faster oil yield and long term yield is possible for tropical/warm area Castor disadvantage - It is said that castor will exhaust the soil quickly, fertilizer required to maintain a large castor plantation for a reasonable yield, but castor can often been seen as weed growing without attension, therefore it is possible to plant it as marginal plant in unattended idle area. - it notorious poison is feared by the public, perhaps a research on castor poison(ricin) remedy is necessary. I do not have a conclusion currently, but as you can see, I am trying to open up Castor as an extra option here. Discussion: - Cultivation requirement: Jatropha maybe able to trive on most kind of soil, but I believe that to yield reasonable harvest, irrigation and fertilizer still required. Castor, while the cultivation requirement is better understood then Jatropha, it is still unknown about which one gets better yield if left unattended in a poor condition area, it is possible that each of them will exceed another under specific senarior, intercropping of castor and jatropha also an interesting subject. - Harvesting: it seems like it is more labourious to harvest Jatropha, which its yield grow as scattered fruit, yes, olive harvester can be modified to harvest Jatropha but it will involved high capital. Castor seem to be easier to harvest as its yeild made of a branch of fruit, worker can just cut the whole branch at once. - Toxicity: It seems that castor seeds are much more deadly then Jatropha, its toxic, which was being used in assasination, implies that it is extremely deadly and no remedy avaibale; however castor oil is perfectly harmless due to the fact that the toxic is only water soluble not oil soluble. Jatropha, even though toxic, in some case, was roasted and being eaten dangerously, but note that Jatropha toxic is deadly as well can kill a person by a 5-6 seeds, I am unable to find more articles about its toxicity and remedy about Jatropha here. Both plant is said can be detoxify by simply heating it and thurs destroying the toxic protein, confirmation needed here thou. - Cost: this is also a main factor, the lower input with higher outcome is desired. Any other topics are welcome. Just my 1/2 cents, top up or add on are most welcome. Regards
Re: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test
Hello Shawn. You were looking at all methanol soluble components including the glycerine which is rather soluble in methanol. Separate the glycerine next time. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: shawn patrick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel Mailing List biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 07, 2007 3:03 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biofuel Quality Test Good Day All, My question is in regards to the Quality test develop by Jan Warnqvist. Is this test to be performed on the product before or after the glycerin has been removed, or does it matter. I performed the test with out removing glycerin and found that I got a clear bright phase except you could tell that there was a more dense substance at the bottom of the flask. I assumed that was the glycerin since just extracted a sample from the process without separating BD from glycerin. Does the glycerin dissolve in the methanol?? Was I looking at the unprocessed materials in my BD?? Regards Shawn Patrick ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Tom Hi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops. I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use. I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought we did anyway. I think that both Joe and myself have standardize(d) the process so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception. That's not what Joe said: It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known already. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts and the unreacted oil will settle out. Then you can use the measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide. Assume neutral oil for this calculation. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. Will save you settling time in the long run. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. That if makes it a little ambiguous, but the regularly bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's the exception. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess, as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first place? Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: There's no need for titration, just use 6.25 g. And then using the methanol test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or standards test. What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing (whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and conducting the whole thing as a single stage. From Joe's replies so far I can't tell if he (and Rod, and Kenji and many others) are doing it that way or not, but it seems not: Your question (and mine): Don't you have to heat up the whole batch again? (Time and energy) Joe's reply: This is all done right after draining the glycerin. I leave the heater on during this period. Do the rough QT right away before wash test. Rough QT? Anyway, how long is it settling before he drains the glyc? I run a QT towards the end of the reaction because I do not want to re-process. Indeed not. It takes me a few minutes and I like the certainty of knowing the BD is good before I pump it into my settling tank. If the test should fail when I'm making a batch for my car, I could use Joe's suggestion to help me better approximate the amount of methanol to add. If the process has been standardized, why bother? I think this is a misunderstanding. I didn't say what you say below, standardized; can't fail, and I didn't mean that standardising the process means there's no need for tests, whether in-process tests or 1-litre test batches or whatever. Anything can fail. I'm all in favour of any tests that are helpful at any stage. So I agree with all you say here. Indeed, whatever rough might mean, using the methanol test to fine-tune the amount of extra methanol needed for reprocessing is a useful technique. But I'm not in favour of using reprocessing as a standard method, which, pending a better explanation, seems to be what's being proposed here. As you say: there shouldn't be any batches failing the QT. I've had a few failed batches in the past year. It seems to happen when I think I have it all figured out; standardized; can't fail. On one occasion the pump was making a bit of a funny noise when I
Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time
Hello Joe. There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.' Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Jan; Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and agitated again and did get an emulsion. I have had the feeling glycerin has usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them. No doubt a poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled. Remember we started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly completed run. BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my yahoo group! Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion. Now that's radical!!?? http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/ Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Tom Hi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops. I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use. I also took that point, there were others though. It's a useful method, cheaper reprocessing, but I think we all agree that reprocessing itself is to be avoided if at all possible. Or I thought we did anyway. I think that both Joe and myself have standardize(d) the process so that passing the QT is the rule, not the exception. That's not what Joe said: It makes sense. Glycerin is an emulsifier. Have you ever tried dosing the batch again with a little methoxide? After you remove the glycerin it doesn't take much to get the last bit of the reaction to go and settle out the remaining glycerin. Of course this is well known already. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. You can do a methanol test of sorts and the unreacted oil will settle out. Then you can use the measured amount of unreacted oil in the methanol test vial to estimate the percentage unreacted oil in your batch and dose accordingly with the stoichiometric amount of methoxide. Assume neutral oil for this calculation. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. Will save you settling time in the long run. Rod and I do this regularly if the batch fails the QT and it works like a charm. That if makes it a little ambiguous, but the regularly bit puts a question-mark on what's the rule and what's the exception. Kenji and many others do straight base catalysis as a two stage deal. Less methanol notwithstanding, my question remains - why reprocess, as a standard procedure, instead of avoiding the problem in the first place? Could be wrong, but it sounds like Kenji and others might be doing this rather than doing a titration - you know the old line: There's no need for titration, just use 6.25 g. And then using the methanol test to try to fix the regularly ensuing disaster. A different version of that here in Japan is to put the stuff through a centrifuge, though the product still doesn't pass any quality test or standards test. What you describe is much the same as what I described, doing (whatever) tests during the processing, adjusting accordingly and conducting the whole thing as a single stage. From Joe's replies so far I can't tell if he (and Rod, and Kenji and many others) are doing it that way
Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt fromwvo
Hello Roderick. A definiyion is on its place: A salt is basically a compound built up from the reaction of a metal and an acid.There are other salts too, but we can leave them for now. This means that soaps are salts, since they are built up from metal ions (Na+ or K+ in connection with biodiesel) and fatty acids. These are formed as a by-reaction in the trans-esterification process, often encouraged by the water content. Salt in every-day talk is NaCl sodium chloride , where in this case the chlorine is fetched from HCl, hydrochloric acid. Does this spread any light to you ? You are using acetic acid to break the emulsion. This will create the salts potassium or sodium acetate and water. Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Roderick Roth To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2007 6:03 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (was Glycerine Settling Time) removing salt/dirt fromwvo Hello Jan May I jump into the discussion? Jan you have just mentioned the word salts isn't that one of the ingrediants for making very good quality soap? Hence possibly helping make a great emultion during the first wash on the quality esters. I am assuming that salts will remain in the whole process, not being disolved in any manner from the methoxide right? Some salt should be drained with the glycern right? Possibly leaving some salt in the unwashed ester. My last two reactions have had the same feedstock, ( a very popular restaurant which salts their fry's heavily, lol) both reactions were two stage acid/base reactions becos the titration is consistantly over 14 eww . Here are the wash results from both batches of Quality Tested BD: Reaction #21 using 1500L unwashed oil as a feedstock:the resulting 1380 Litre batch of quality BD required 3.5 litres of pure 99% vinagar to break the first wash emultion. Reaction #22 using 1500L PREWASHED oil of the same feedstock : the resulting 1450L batch only required 1 Litre of 99% pure vinagar, to break the first wash emultion. Jan does this observation make any sense? Think it could be salt? -Rod. Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Joe. There were probably small amounts of mono- and diglycerides left in the biodiesel, and/or possibly soaps which together are excellent emulsifiers. A strong acid will divide the glycerides into fatty acids and glycerine ,and the soaps into salts and fatty acids, which then goes into a fat phanse and an aquaeus phase, possibly with the salts in the bottom.' Best regards Jan - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 3:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling Time Hi Jan; Ok your post agrees with what Andres said. So how do we explain Tom's experiment then? To recap (Tom correct me if I miss something here) he took washed esters that passed the methanol test and added water and (of course) no emulsion when agitated. Whatever mono and diglycerides were in the esters were small but present I assume, but yet no emusion. Then added some small quantity of glycerol ( which had been separated from the soaps, FFA and salts) and agitated again and did get an emulsion. I have had the feeling glycerin has usually been the cause of emulsion problems when I have had them. No doubt a poorly reacted batch is much more likely to have the problem but is that really due to the glycerides or is it glycerin which hasn't settled. Remember we started this discussion that the glycerin settles much slower in a poorly completed run. BTW as an addition to this discussion look what someone just posted on my yahoo group! Using glycerin cocktail to BREAK an emulsion. Now that's radical!!?? http://www.biodieselcommunity.org/breakingemulsions/ Joe Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hi evereybody. I feel obliged to enter this discussion. Pure glycerine is not a good emulsifier due to the fact that there are three OH-groups and that the carbon s in the first and third positions are surronded by two hydrogene atoms. This makes the glycerine hydrophilic in five places alltogether. However, the mono- and diglycerides are excellent emulsifiers. Only small amounts of these are sufficient to create stable emulsions. Would somebody agree with me on that ?Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 10, 2007 9:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Glycerine Settling TimeHi TomHi Keith, Then if you do one-litre test batches first, especially with iffy batches of oil, Ops.I took Joe's point to be: If you have to re-process it is possible to use info from the QT to determine how much (how little) methanol you'll need to use.I also took
[Biofuel] new topic
Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new actors. So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance, intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from their power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on forehand: If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to decrease our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or independence will suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation for new technology, new solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, even to your nails. Jan Warnqvist -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/625bf774/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] new topic
Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government to ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course. In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power will be green. As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas. But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big systems are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in itself is a reason to encourage small scale energy production. - Original Message - From: Michael Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as the existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only to comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have tens of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they own it all again. It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively owned ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all. Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are back to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and speculators. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt be forced out into the market by new actors. So we are actually into a process which will change the power balance, intensely stalled by the traditional actors and anybody who gains from their power. This may be a long hard struggle, be the outcome is given on forehand: If we want to consume energy it has to be renewable. We may have to decrease our consumption, but that does not mean that our welfare or independence will suffer. On the contrary, this is a major stimulation for new technology, new solutions and - for new actors. So - hang in there, even to your nails. Jan Warnqvist -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/625bf774/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20070919/0261f1f1/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] new topic
And further: The developing countries may be able to benefit very well from a more de-centralized energy production by taking advantage from the green techniques. An example: A farmer in Africa decides to grow Jatropha plants, because a near-by plantation has decided to produce biodiesel for their own consumption, since the availability of petrodiesel changes with the wheather and with rebel and government activities. The production cost for Jatropha oil biodiesel is far less than the cost of petrodiesel. The biodiesel and its by-products can also be used to generate electricity and give a surplus back on to the power network. A surplus that can be consumed by the farmer and his family. This will enable them to increase their standard and even increase the production of Jatropha oil. This is only one example of events that we in the company have seen taking place, although mostly concerning palm oil. - Original Message - From: Lugano Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 10:53 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic TRUE, governments have key role to play - the development of these new and clean energy systems need be regulated not just left to the multinationals to control everything at their PROFIT. serious cases will be to developing countries that have corrupt systems only to throw such precious lands at a token advantage. it is clear that these developments are going to spread decentralized energy sevices to remote areas that one could not think of. it should therefore be promoted with much regulation. Lugano Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Prifitability to the new energy business is a matter for the government to ensure, assuming that the government wants such a development, of course. In Sweden. Italy and UK (I think) there is a system of green certificates for power generation. These systems oblige the power distributors to buy a min quote of green certificates, allowing of certain amount of the power will be green. As for the biodiesel or even ethanol, the authorities will have to enforce the production and consumption of these, with grants or by quotas. But there is another factor to take into consideration as well: Big systems are sensitive to terrorst attacks, technical malfunctions etc. That in itself is a reason to encourage small scale energy production. - Original Message - From: Michael Miller To: Sent: Thursday, September 20, 2007 6:14 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] new topic On 9/19/07, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello all, my time here in Ageratec has provided me with some observations which I would like the list members to share with me: We are in the business of producing energy from sources which originally are meant for food purposes or food waste. It is obvious that this new energy sector has very few of the traditional energy suppliers, rather new actors in this field of green energy. I don't think the renewable energy industry is nearly as profitable as the existing oil industry. The investments in renewables by big oil is only to comply with mandatory state and federal requirements. If renewables ever take off and actually threaten their profits the oil giants will have tens of billions of dollars available to buyout everyone, and in the end they own it all again. It is happening with ethanol production. What started as cooperatively owned ethanol plants financed by groups of local farmers has grown into highly capitalized publicly owned corporations not owned by farmers at all. Non-farm investors are buy up ethanol production plants and farmers are back to growing a commodity crop and suffering the whims of the market and speculators. Here in Sweden the farmers are buying wind mills, selling the power to the power distributors, the paper and pulp industry is burning the black liqueur residue and producing power from it, both for own consumption and for sales. Some farmers are growing canola, producing biodiesel from it for own consumption and for sales. The ethanol industry has begun to shift from approaching ethanol as a solvent to treating it as fuel. There is a new combinative proposing that wood should be used for producing methanol for energy purposes. None of these areas have mineral oil companies, nuclear, coal or hydro power companies or any other traditional suppliers of energy involved in their business. This teaches us that the new energy will be dominated by new actors, which means that there is a great need for knowledge and know-how both for the energy products as such, and also for the energy business itself. This demand exsists not only within the actors, but also within the authorities, the traditional actors and the industry used to produce food etc. The same development will no doubt strike the lubricant industry. The new green lubricants will no doubt
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol
Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in original,since the article is producing several question marks. It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , but as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny part of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point it is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious gases from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding value of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from BD of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem: 1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases become acceptably lower. 2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations. Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide No doubt has the information on the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight, No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still makes sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development to take another path than previous. You know what I mean. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Olivier Morf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece September 22, 2007 Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol By Lewis Smith A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests. Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from rapeseed and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than they save. Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties. Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before being hailed as a solution. ³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the researchers. Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel production. Professor Smith told Chemistry World: ³The significance of it is that the supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought hitherto.² It was accepted by the scientists that other factors, such as the use of fossil fuels to produce fertiliser, have yet to be fully analysed for their impact on overall figures. But they concluded that the biofuels ³can contribute as much or more to global warming by N2 O emissions than cooling by fossil-fuel savings². The research is published in the journal Atmospheric Chemistry and Physics, where it has been placed for open review. The research team was formed of scientists from Britain, the US and Germany, and included Professor Paul Crutzen, who won a Nobel Prize for his work on ozone. Dr Franz Conen, of the University of Basel in Switzerland, described the study as an ³astounding insight². ³It is to be hoped that those
Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil OrPetrol
Ok, my mistake. When reading the article this is not shown very clear. But nitrous oxide is N2O and nothing else. - Original Message - From: Chris Burck [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2007 2:30 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas ThanOil OrPetrol jan, the study was focused on NO2 released by soil microbes as the rapeseed crops grow, not on the emissions from burning the fuel. you make an excellent point, though. imo, we should *always* be searching for ways to reduce the impact of the fuels we burn. On 10/3/07, Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Dear all, I would really like to read this study this report in original,since the article is producing several question marks. It is well known that the exhaust emissions from fatty acid methyl esters are producing higher amounts of nitrious gases than petro diesel does , but as far as I can remember, the nitrious oxide corresponds only to a tiny part of these. It is also well known that that the higher the cetane number of the biodiesel, the lower the emissions of nitrious gases. From that point it is a little bit strange to conclude that the the emissions of nitrious gases from rape seed oil biodiesel and maize biodiesel are the same, since the iodine number of maize oil in general is higher than the corresponding value of rape seed oil. This is suggesting in its prolongment that the emissions of nitrious gases from BD out of rape seed oil should be lower than from BD of maize oil. If the article is displaying the facts from the study correctly, then there are two ways to approach this problem: 1) Further product development of the fatty acid methyl esters in order to raise the cetane number to a level where the emissions of nitrious gases become acceptably lower. 2) New diesel veichles will be equipped with an Exhaust Gas Recirculation (EGR) system or an exhaust gas aftertreatment system which will lower the production of nitrious gases as required in Euro regulations. Information on the properties of nitrious oxide can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrous_oxide No doubt has the information on the green house effects from nitrious oxide come from this sight, No matter if the conclusions from the study are right or not, it still makes sense to produce biodiesel, not in the least for forcing the development to take another path than previous. You know what I mean. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Olivier Morf [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 6:40 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil OrPetrol Source: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article2507851.ece September 22, 2007 Rapeseed Biofuel Produces More Greenhouse Gas Than Oil Or Petrol By Lewis Smith A renewable energy source designed to reduce greenhouse gas emissions is contributing more to global warming than fossil fuels, a study suggests. Measurements of emissions from the burning of biofuels derived from rapeseed and maize have been found to produce more greenhouse gas emissions than they save. Other biofuels, especially those likely to see greater use over the next decade, performed better than fossil fuels but the study raises serious questions about some of the most commonly produced varieties. Rapeseed and maize biodiesels were calculated to produce up to 70 per cent and 50 per cent more greenhouse gases respectively than fossil fuels. The concerns were raised over the levels of emissions of nitrous oxide, which is 296 times more powerful as a greenhouse gas than carbon dioxide. Scientists found that the use of biofuels released twice as much as nitrous oxide as previously realised. The research team found that 3 to 5 per cent of the nitrogen in fertiliser was converted and emitted. In contrast, the figure used by the International Panel on Climate Change, which assesses the extent and impact of man-made global warming, was 2 per cent. The findings illustrated the importance, the researchers said, of ensuring that measures designed to reduce greenhouse-gas emissions are assessed thoroughly before being hailed as a solution. ³One wants rational decisions rather than simply jumping on the bandwagon because superficially something appears to reduce emissions,² said Keith Smith, a professor at the University of Edinburgh and one of the researchers. Maize for ethanol is the prime crop for biofuel in the US where production for the industry has recently overtaken the use of the plant as a food. In Europe the main crop is rapeseed, which accounts for 80 per cent of biofuel production. Professor Smith told Chemistry World: ³The significance of it is that the supposed benefits of biofuels are even more disputable than had been thought
Re: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it.
Hello Guag et al. The reason for the Germans during ww2 to spend time and resources on collecting racial, religious and political non-approved people was simple: Idelogical. Germany was during this time built up on a lie and the money for this lie was borrowed from domestic and foreign lone providers so as for building up the war industry itself. It was necessary for the German government to keep this lie, since their complete build-up was based upon that. But, when it came to the final solution it grew forward little by little, goverened by directives from the government and performed practically by the lower parts of the administration with the concentration camps adminstrations in the bottom. There were meetings held where administrates discussed how to kill as many as effiectively as possible within a certain time frama = executing the directives from the government. So, the reason for spending resources on these collection activities was that they did not know how the final solution would look like. A completely mad system from the very beginning until the end, if you ask me. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Guag Meister [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, October 17, 2007 4:57 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Off Topic - More on the Holocaust if you can stand it. Hi Keith and all List Members I like the part about Fred Dr. Death Leuchter, the designer of the US Prison system's execution apparatus, as an expert defense witness who tested purported execution gas chambers ON-SITE in Auschwitz, Poland tesitified in a court of law under oath and determined they had never been used to kill anyone. The other question I have is this. The war machine runs on fuel. During a time of war for Germany, fuel would be incredibly important. So why would the Germans waste precious fuel to transport all the prisioners to the camps if they intended to kill them? Wouldn't a sharp bayonette be much cheaper? Best Regards, Peter G. Thailand 20th Anniversary of the Great Holocaust Trial by Michael A. Hoffman II Copyright 2005 by revisionisthistory.org January 7, 2005 marks the 20th anniversary of what came to be known throughout the world as The Great Holocaust Trial thanks chiefly to the drive, determination, courage and vision of one man, Ernst Zundel, supported by those he inspired. In 1985 Zundel was a German immigrant residing in Toronto, Canada where he had built a highly successful advertising and graphic arts business based in a rambling Victorian mansion in the bohemian Cabbagetown section of metropolitan Toronto. Zundel viewed the Six million story as a form of mental genocide against the German people; ostensibly a noble tale of the epoch struggle for human rights that in actuality was a form of devious hate propaganda, leveling every conceivable blood libel at the Germans and branding them with the Mark of Cain. Having survived the Allied firebombing of his native city of Pforzheim as a child, Zundel was well familiar with the war crimes of the hypocritical Allies and he made it his life's work to clear the name of his own people. For this commendable enterprise, Zundel had his mailing privileges revoked by the Canadian government in 1983, forcing him to open a post office box in Buffalo, New York and send a messenger to commute hundreds of miles just to receive mail. In 1985 he was charged under an archaic False News provision of an old Edwardian municipal code, for having published the pamphlet Did Six Million Really Die? He faced two years in prison if convicted. In reponse Zundel put the so-called Holocaust itself on trial, hiring a little-known maverick lawyer from British Columbia, Douglas Christie, to argue his case before Judge Hugh Locke. Seated next to Christie was the learned revisionist historian Prof. Robert Faurisson of France, who guided Christie's withering cross-examination of a long train of saintly 'Holocaust' survivors offered by the Crown. Zundel's defense was initially regarded by the press and public as preposterous. How can anyone deny the 'Holocaust? was the incredulous response to the news that Zundel would vigorously defend himself and the free speech rights of all Canadians. The trial was expected to be a quick and ignominious rout of Zundel and his motley crew. How wrong the odds-makers were! For the first time in history the holy survivors finally had to submit their testimony to scrutiny, to the rules of evidence and cross-examination, something that has never happened before or since. Seated in the press gallery, I watched as my colleagues of the fourth estate grew ever more surprised and shocked at the amazing admissions Christie and Faurisson elicited from the eyewitnesses to the gas chambers. TV reporters like Claud Adams and journalists from the Toronto Star and Globe and Mail produced footage and headlines
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors
Hi all, I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many reasons, but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. This means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable, also from the human health point of view. If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would be very interested to hear about it. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors See: The SVO vs biodiesel argument: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html SVO versus biodiesel is a pseudo argument that should not exist. It creates a false competitive situation between two good things and distracts from the real issues on how we can minimize the use of fossil fuels. - Hakan Falk So many SVO vendors take this approach. There's a growing market for SVO systems and for all ready-to-use biofuels solutions, why try to chisel off bits of the biodiesel market by spreading disinfo? I haven't seen Elsbett slagging biodiesel, for instance. But then (somehow it's no surprise) this is just yet another two-tank system, no optimised injector nozzles or anything a real system would have. We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable oil in Germany, they said. :-) Now what was it Greasecar told me... Throughout the world we are recognized as the leading manufacturer, seller and producer of SVO conversion equipment. LOL! --- http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/technology.php Theoretically there are three ways of using vegetable oil as fuel: 1. Manufacturing an engine especially designed to run with vegetable oil: At this moment in time, this version is inefficient, as the attitude of the automobile and mineral oil companies only allows a small quantity of these engines at high prices. Our aim is to change this attitude, distribute the vegetable oil technology and to establish the vegetable oil engine. 2. Adaptation of the vegetable oil to the existing engine technology: It is inefficient to change the vegetable oil into biodiesel using a lot of energy and chemical processes, which then destroy gaskets and tubes, decrease the engine's power and increases consumption when the natural fuel has already better features to offer. 3. Adaptation of existing engines to the natural vegetable oil: Our company has developed this from of technology. We install additional components in vehicles so a mode is selectable to use pure vegetable oil or diesel fuel without having to change the engine. Form and extent of the alteration depends on the technology of the diesel engine. 3E GmbH Pflanzenöltechnik From: Frank Wohlberg [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Your link list Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2007 14:34:23 +0100 Hi Keith, is it possible to put a link of our company to your link list? We are market leader in converting diesel engines for straight vegetable oil in Germany but I couldn`t find a link to us. Thank you very much! Regards Frank Wohlberg http://www.3egmbh.com/eng/index.php ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors
Hello Bruno et al. The viscosity and the high boiling point of SVO are just a consequence of the main molecule of SVO and its composition. The SVO consists from triglycerides together with some content of free acidity. Since we are mainly dealing with plant oils (or similar) we can expect the dominating fatty acid content to consist from oleic or linoic acid. These are C18:s which means that the triglyceride will have an approximate sum formula of C57H115O6 . This is a large molecule, which in itself is a reason for its combustion properties. Furthermore, the fatty acids are tied to a backbone of glycerine. This component can be extremely difficult to burn, since its urge to create polymeric compounds rather than vaporize is well known to anybody who have tried burning it. This property increases with the unsaturation of the oil. There are reports suggesting that highly saturated oils and fats are more easy to combust in diesel engines. So the sum is that biodiesel is more suitable than SVO. The additive we successfully tried was manufactured by Sybron Chemicals (SA) and consisted from phenolic compounds, which created soot which diluted the deposits. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Bruno M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 9:01 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors Jan, SVO having a high boiling point doesn't mean it can't be used instead of dinodiesel in a diesel car, because, ... normal Diesel fuel is also completely evaporated before combustion. What you need is a fine mist, not evaporated fuel in a diesel motor. Dino diesel has a boiling point, rather a boiling-range, between 340 and 400°C, so even dino juice will not be much vaporized at the time of ignition. But it's possible that the higher the viscosity, boiling point, and vapor pressure is, the more difficult it is for your dieselcar's hardware to make the ultimate mist who gives the ideal burning of all fuel components. Thats why SVO conversion kits alway's have a fuel heather device in it to lower the viscosity so the pump - injector combo can produce a optimal ( or as close as possible ) mist. At 95°C sunflower oil has around the same viscosity then DD at 15°C. DOE and other governmental organizations still claim that SVO will shorten the live span of your motor and more cooking and reduced motoroil live span will appear. Mixing with dinojuice or an additive can also help but is not the best or preferred option if you want to go fossil free. What additive did you use or tested? Grts Bruno M. ~~ At 18:30 20/11/2007, Jan wrote: Hi all, I find it difficult to embrace any SVO technology. That is for many reasons, but the most outstanding is the high boiling point of SVO:s. Canola vaporizes completely at no less than 650-700oC, which is far too high for modern diesel engines which have a limit of acceptance at approx 350oC. This means that the SVO cannot combust completely in a diesel engine. This leads to deposits in the engine, some of them lethal to the engine, and lubricating oil contamination. This is a fact that no SVO kit can cure. I was into a SVO project during the 90:s and we found one additive that could keep the deposits at a certain level. But the composition of the additive was such, that the handling of the fuel became environmentally undesirable, also from the human health point of view. If somebody has an attractive technical/chemical solution for this I would be very interested to hear about it. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2007 5:42 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD disinfo from SVO kit vendors See: The SVO vs biodiesel argument: http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_svovsbd.html = -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.503 / Virus Database: 269.16.1/1141 - Release Date: 20/11/2007 11:34 ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture
Hello Jonathan et al The main problem with SVO is the high boiling point. This includes both the FFA and the SVO molecule itself. The points of turning the SVO into biodiesel are the following: 1) The final boiling point of the fuel will not exceed 370oC, which is proper for modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 2) The viscosity will drop til approx. max 5cSt, which is acceptable to modern small and middle-size diesel engines. 3) Using the proper recipe when performing the process, the FFA will be reduced or saponified. This will make the fuel less corrosive, assuming that the alkaline metal content of the biodiesel is taken care of . 4) The chemically bounded glycerine in SVO will partially be released from the SVO in hot environment. The glycerine is hard to combust, since it rather forms deposits than CO2 and water. Best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Jonathan Schearer [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 5:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] What's Wrong With This Picture Hello. Lately, I have been doing a lot of reading on the different systems for using SVO. Elsbett seems to have one of the best single tank systems for this. I have made good biodiesel, but with rising costs of methanol, I was looking at alternatives. I have read about fuel mixing and admit have tried the DSE just to see what all the hype was about. I agree that there is nothing really special about their ingredient and most of the thinning and diluting is done with the kerosene and gasoline. It seemed to work fine in my 300SD, but the more I read, the more I learned of the negative aspects(incomplete combustion, coking, ring sticking, etc.). I understand that I should only try things like this for short term experiments, which I have. Is it the FFA in the vegetable oil that causes all of these problems? Is that why biodiesel will not cause these problems, because part of the process removes FFA? I also read about the experiment that concluded that in order to achieve the same atomization as petrol diesel, the rapeseed oil was heated to 150 C. This is twice as hot as most of the 2 tank SVO systems that are on the market now. Would this mean that you would still have incomplete combustion if 150 C cannot be reached? If Rudolf Diesel invented his engine to run on a variety of fuels, including vegetable oil, how come the engines of today require more modification or fuel modification to run veg oil? My last question is concerning the Elsbett single tank SVO system. If you can just pour the veg oil in and go, is there a heater on the main tank for cold weather? I am not even sure that SVO will work for me since I drive 12 miles one way to work. My car gets up to operation temp. half way there. Thanks all. Jonathan Schearer. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hallo, Check out this website if you want to see how well some folks talk out both sides of their mouths. http://www.dieselsecret.com No, it isn't Bio-diesel! Yes, it is the only true Bio-diesel! The Germans at Mercedes have been doing this since the post World War II years but we have the only proprietary ingredients! On, and on, and on. Same old same old. Happy Happy, Gustl -- Je mehr wir haben, desto mehr fordert Gott von uns. We can't change the winds but we can adjust our sails. The safest road to Hell is the gradual one - the gentle slope, soft underfoot, without sudden turnings, without milestones, without signposts. C. S. Lewis, The Screwtape Letters Es gibt Wahrheiten, die so sehr auf der Straße liegen, daß sie gerade deshalb von der gewöhnlichen Welt nicht gesehen oder wenigstens nicht erkannt werden. And those who were seen dancing were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music. Friedrich Nietzsche The best portion of a good man's life - His little, nameless, unremembered acts of kindness and of love. William Wordsworth ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20071213/7291b188/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail
Re: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae??
Hello Doug et al. There are two major concern signs about biodiesel from algae oil: 1) The algae have to be fed with CO2 during growth. If this CO2 comes from fossile sources, you have achieved almost nothing. 2) The oil from algae is highly unsaturated. This makes it difficult to have the biodiesel meet the EN norm and other standards. Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: doug [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, April 27, 2008 5:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Fuel from Algae?? Hi, I ran into a chap travelling around Australia extolling the virtues of running on SVO. He is to email me more details, but apparently there is a project in Australia involved with oil from Algae, aparently using CO2 feedstock from generation equipment. I googled to try to find more info, but only found foreign references from ~2005. Has anyone heard anything about this project? regards Doug ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Titration
Hello Brian et al. The standard solutions for titration are for example KOH 0,1M and KOH 0,5M which are corresponding to 5,61g and 28,05g of KOH / dm3. But the concentration of the titration solution really doesn´t matter as long as the analysis is performed correctly and that the acid number is calculated from the analysis, and that the compensation need is calculated from the acid number. Please note that NaOH has a lower mass than KOH, so the weight will be lower for the corresponding concentration. You did not say how much your sample mass was when having that result. Do that, and we will work the values out properly. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration Jan, You say that my concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Do you mean the standard solution to titrate waste oil with, or are you just meaning weak in general? If it is weak compared to what should be used for waste oil, what is the standard strength? Did I miss read the information on journey to forever? Please let me know because right now I am not going to use the waste oil that I have because of the high titration rate and am going to have to find a new source. Thanks Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 11:07 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: You should know that your concentration is very weak compared to the standard solutions. Your concentration is 0,025M / dm3, and due to its weakness, it will almost always produce high titration values. 1 ml of the solution assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g corresponds to an acid number of 0,1, which is normal for refined oils. Consequently is 5 ml corresponding to 0,5 for acid number assuming that your sample mass is 10,0 g. 0,5 is a very good value for virgin oils. But, if your sample mass is 1,0g, then the values will become 10 times higher, of course. With best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, May 06, 2008 1:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Titration I am using the 1 gram per 1000 mL or .1% of NaOH. I have tried mixing it several ways, 1 gram in 1 liter and also tried Keith's suggestion of 5 grams in .5 L as stock then using 5 mL of that in 45 mL of distilled water for the working solution. Both give the same result. What should New virgin oil titrate out as? or does it? Thanks for the help Brian Schneider On May 6, 2008, at 2:52 AM, Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Brian et al. Which concentration of the titration solution are you using ? The figures that you stated could be correct, but only assuming that your titration solution is aimed for the purpose. Best regards Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Brian Schneider [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: sustainablelorgbiofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, May 05, 2008 4:35 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Titration Hi All, Have a quick question about titration. I have obtained some waste oil that seems to be titrating at 12 - 15mL. I have done this numerous times and come up with about the same results. That seems unusably high. So I tried to titrate new virgin oil. When I did that it only took about .2 - .4 mL is that normal or am I doing something terribly wrong. I am a little confused at this point and any help I could get would be really appreciated. Thanks Brian Schneider -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080505/94b646be/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- next part -- An HTML attachment was scrubbed... URL: /pipermail/attachments/20080506/8d0baaf2/attachment.html ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/sustainablelorgbiofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (70,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com
Re: [Biofuel] Adding SVO to petro diesel (lubricity issue)
Hello Dana, you will have full lubricity properties if adding 5% of SVO or BD to the diesel oil. But, BD is preferrable due to the coking properties of the SVO. I would suggest a BD with a high content of olelic acid e.g. from canola ,soybean or sunflower oil. With best regards AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Dana Adams [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 2:25 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Adding SVO to petro diesel (lubricity issue) I wonder if someone on this forum could help me? I have no biodiesel options around my home, and I'm concerned that running the lower sulphur petroleum diesel fuel will damage my injection pump. I'd like to add some SVO into the petro diesel to add lubricity to the fuel, and I'm wondering if someone on here could tell me the optimal percentages? I'd like to add enough to give substantial protection to the pump and injectors. Also, is any particular kind of SVO better for this purpose than another type? thanks ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vehicles suitable for biodiesel operation
Hello Win. assumable nothing else than keeping an extra fuel filter with you in the car. And also assuming that the biodiesel is of good quality. Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Vin Lava To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, December 11, 2005 8:06 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vehicles suitable for biodiesel operation Hi, I'm setting up to homebrew biodiesel in a month or so. I'm being offered a 1985 Mercedes Benz 190D in reasonably decent condition.What do I need to do touse biodiesel in it? What should I look out for?We also have an early 90'sNissan Largo with the small (2.0L?) diesel and a mid-90'sIsuzu Bighorn with the 3.1L intercooler turbodiesel. What do I need to do to run them on biodiesel? Any info would be much appreciated. :-) Thanks and regards. Vin Lava Manila, Philippines ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] grease trap waste
Hello Manuel, the FFA value does not alter the net heat value, but high FFA oils are usually quite corrosive. And - oil from grease traps may also contain mineral oils and other fatty substances. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: manuel cilia [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 1:45 PM Subject: [Biofuel] grease trap waste Has anyone has any experience with grease trap waste. I am looking into an idea of collecting grease trap waste and seperating the water from the grease, then heating the grease to a level where it can be filtered and used in gas turbines while the water is cleaned up and use for irrigation I know grease trap waste is very high in FFA but does this atler it total energy value or just its gelling point. - Original Message - From: Joey Hundert [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, December 14, 2005 8:33 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Widescale Biodiesel Production from Algae byMichaelBriggs Todd, Please forgive the fact that I'm about to post a previous thread into this one, however, the archives don't seem to be working tonight. The following is Keith's last post on this issue. Subj: RE: Algae - was Re: [Biofuel] Gasoline Prices Todd, if you keep a good personal archive, please also note the thread the bad news about biodiesel http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/msg58130.html as it also has some kernels. -Joey Hello Craig Hello Keith, I've been doing a bit of research on microalgae production for energy and found there is some research going on around the world in various places. The NREL's 'Aquatic Species Program' research closed in the mid 1990's due, among other things, to pressure for DOE funding and the decision to focus their research budgets on ethanol production. Were those the only reasons? I thought there were some negative reasons about algae too, could always be wrong though. Also in the 1990's the Japanese took the idea on in a big way, spending more than $250 million on research into hi-tec bioreactors with optical fiber devices etc but found they were too expensive to be economical. I believe research is continuing there but on a smaller scale; I haven't heard of any such research here, and I'm a bit sceptical. As with biodiesel itself - it's quite easy to get the impression that there's lots of fancy stuff going on here, especially if you listen to several quite noisy people, and there are indeed some fancy Japanese patents, but in fact biodiesel hardly exists here, some (or most) of the few projects that do exist are very bad, to the extent that emissions tests for exemption from the restrictions of the anti-diesel campaign here (Tokyo and some other places) will no longer allow biodiesel because they've found it's so badly made it wrecks the machinery. Tests of our biodiesel have shown it would pass and wouldn't mess up any machinery, but they made a blanket rule: NO biodiesel, great, thanks guys. More and more people are making their own now, since we got involved (not boasting, that's what's happened), high-quality fuel, but it doesn't count, too bad. Same with ethanol, lots of good research, lots of schemes, but nothing happens. Yet. China and Israel are also leaders in applied phycology and have done work on biofuels from algae. Michael Briggs, of UNH, and his team are currently focusing on enclosed systems where the algae will process wastewater too. Have they made any biodiesel from it yet? John Benemann, who was involved in the NREL research, is now an independent consultant and heading up an international network who are researching into it: their website gives a good overview Thanks, I'll take a look. http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/Biofixation.htm . http://www.co2captureandstorage.info/networks/documents/01roadmp.pdf Other links... NREL research http://www.nrel.gov/docs/fy04osti/34796.pdf http://govdocs.aquake.org/cgi/reprint/2004/915/9150010.pdf Further studies http://www.unh.edu/p2/biodiesel/pdf/algae_salton_sea.pdf http://europa.eu.int/comm/research/energy/pdf/36_qingyu_wu_en.pdf Discussion forum exchanges http://biodiesel.infopop.cc/eve/ubb.x?a=tpcs=447609751f=719605551m =932606061r=932606061#932606061 Um... (burp), no thanks. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3153. http://forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3414whichpage=1 http://groups.yahoo.com/group/oil_from_algae/ Algal biodiesel plant planned for California?? (I don't know anything more about it) http://www.bfi.org/Trimtab/spring02/biodiesel.htm US Company making algal biodiesel from power station gases http://www.greenfuelonline.com/index.htm I find the last link particularly interesting. My only problem with it - and with John
Re: [Biofuel] In French ?
Hello Oliver. I have some interesting ideas concerning biofuel in Switzerland. Contact me on [EMAIL PROTECTED] ASAP for further discussions. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 10, 2005 5:26 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ? Bonjour, in researching the possibility of making BD with Isopropyl Alcohol, I have noticed than in Europe many countries refer to biodiesel as FAME; this may be a useful term to search for when looking for French language information. -Mike Keith Addison wrote: I would highly recommend also using: http://world.altavista.com/ I would highly recommend also using an online translator such as AltaVista's Babelfish (http://world.altavista.com/). I have used it frequently for Russian to English, and it seems to have no problem with English to French when you use the Translate a web page option. --Randall Charlotte, NC Hello Randall The machine translators are useful, we've discussed using them here before, but that was for when people wanted to post messages in Spanish or French or whatever, not for technical instructions on a website. How would American biodieselers for instance like it if they had to get their information from Journey to Forever via Babelfish? Here's how the Spanish version of Mike Pelly's titration instructions come out in English via world.altavista.com: Disolución of a gram of lejía in a distilled liter of water prepares one. Asegúrate of which it is dissolved totally. This sample serves like value of reference in valoración. It is important that this disolución is not contaminated because serˆ used in many valuations. Mixture in a container pequeño 10 mililiter of isopropílico alcohol with 1 mililiter of the oil (asegurate of which it is exactly 1 mililiter). It takes to the oil sample después of it to have warmed up and to have shaken (5 Figure # 1). Añade two drops of fenolftaleína, that is an indicator ˆ cido-bases colorless in the presence of ˆ cidos and red in the presence of bases. English version: Make up a solution of one gram of lye to one liter of distilled water. Make sure it dissolves completely. This sample is then used as a reference tester for the titration process. It's important not to let the sample get contaminated, it can be used for many titrations. Mix 10 milliliters of isopropyl alcohol in a small container with a 1 milliliter sample of WVO -- make sure it's exactly 1 milliliter. Take the WVO titration sample from the reaction vessel (Figure 5 #1) after it's been warmed up and stirred. Add to this solution 2 drops of phenolphthalein, an acid-base indicator that's colorless in acid and red in base. Not so good eh? Lots of people in lots of countries speak French. If there aren't any good biofuels how-to sites in French there should be. Invitation stands: If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host it, like the Spanish-language site. Best Keith - Original Message - From: Sam Critchley [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 09, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] In French ? Hi, Biodiesel is often called diester in French. Here's a French-language Wikipedia entry with some links to biodiesel in Switzerland at the bottom: http://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diester I also suggest doing an advanced search on Google for French-language pages containing the words biodiesel or diester. Thanks, Sam On Fri, 09 Dec 2005 17:01:00 +0100, Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello Olivier I have some friends in the French side of Switzerland, Geneva, who are interested to try to make Biodiesel. They already have a car (a LandRover I beleive) running on SVO. But they do not speak (nor read) english. Do you know by any chance a good web site where they can find information on how to produce in French ? I don't. Maybe there isn't one. If some of the French-speaking list members wanted to translate the Journey to Forever Biofuels section into French we'd be happy to host it, like the Spanish-language site. Regards Keith Addison Journey to Forever KYOTO Pref., Japan http://journeytoforever.org/ Thanks, Olivier ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol
Hello Jim, since the methanol solubility test worked out well, you probably have created some soap from the methyl esters. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 02, 2006 7:32 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Biodiesel Testing excessive methanol I just tested a 60 Liter batch and have a few questions; below is what I have done with the results and further below are my questions, The biodiesel used in the tests below was unwashed - glycerin layer removed. 1.) Using the test method noted on JtF ( Jan Warnqvist - Methanol test) as prescribed 225 ml Methanol combined with 25 ml of the biodiesel. Results: Biodiesel was fully soluble and formed a clear bright phase no contaminants or other phases noted. Results after 24 hours - No change. 2) Using a MODIFIED JtF method, (combining 4.90875 grams lab grade KOH and 100 ml Methanol (Potassium Methoxil) with 1 Liter of the biodiesel) - INSTEAD I added 400ml methanol and 4.90875 grams KOH ( Potassium Methoxil ) (both lab grade near absolute) to 1 Liter of the Biodiesel. I then heated to 120 deg F and mixed for one hour. Results: after 24 hours there was a nice amber layer from the bottom of the glass jar up to the last say 1/2 inch where a very very slightly amber layer resided to the top. there was nothing at the bottom at all. 3) Wash test JtF, In a glass jar I shook 1/2 Bio and 1/2 water at room temp till mixed into one phase. Results: within 1 minute the water and Bio separated and the water was quite white. Wash #2 same time of separation water clearer this time. Wash # 3 same as #2. Wash # 4 water was not drinking quality but PH is close to seven. O.K why did I increase the Methanol in test #2) above? I am not sure except to see what it would do, but from what I read it would not harm so I did. My Question: Can anyone tell me what the strange clear amber layer on top of the other clear amber layer may be? Could this be the FFA content per L? Thanks in advance, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BD and Oil Burner
Hello Tom, the leakage you have spotted is no doubt a result of material incompability, something that you will have to live with unless you find sealings of a compatible material. The biodiesel from WVO will in case of crystallisation, plug the fuel filter of your burner, not causing leakages. Is the jelly thing clear or emulsified ? Best regards Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 4:43 PM Subject: [Biofuel] BD and Oil Burner Hello All, I've been using a 30% BD/70% heating oil mix in my heating oil tank since August. My oil burner heats my water as well as my house.All went well (each time I checked the nozzle on the burner it was clean as new) until late in Dec. I was away. My wife noticed an odor of diesel fuel in the basement. She found a small puddle of oil under the furnace. Following is the report from the person who serviced the burner: Oil leak under the burner Nozzle jelled up outside Found some sort of jelly built up on end of nozzle Oil was dripping down blast tube I suspect that the difference in the performance of the mix in Dec vs Aug through Nov, is the cold. Although my oil tank is inside, it is in my basement where temps drop below 50F on cold days. The fuel line to the burner is 12 ft long and runs along an exterior wall. During the colder months I use the bestWVO, with the lowest cloud point to made BD for my car and the rest to make BD for my heating fuel. (My caris outdoors, starts on the coldest days and runs well on a 70% BD/30% petro diesel mix. It has a small pre-coolant heater that I plug in for an hour before starting.) Questions: 1. Am I right in assuming that the "jelly" on the nozzle is the thicking of the BD due to the cold? 2. Can the problem be addressed by heating the fuel line to the burner? 3. Any other thoughts? Thanks, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Jim, the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap feedstock, not the other way around. Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization. Good luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Thanks Jan, If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO (still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter like the water problem you noted below? Would the FFA's be worth the trouble? Thanks Jim Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions
Hello Todd, yes, to my knowledge it is favourable producing methyl esters by turning the FFA:s into soaps as a first step. There will be amounts of water created with this method as well, but it seems to be of less importance. There is no need for scaring people off , but there is a need for explaining the mechanisms necessary for success. There will also always be a need for us that are trained to disperse our knowledge with the responsibility required. I was referring to acid esterification of FFA:s / oil without passing through the soap step. These reactions are often incomplete, and moreover, quite slow. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, January 08, 2006 4:29 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Jan, Since when are esterifications often incomplete? And since when is a good conversion achieved necessarily through base catalysis? It's relatively simple to take 100% FFAs and achieve a 100% yield of esters. Industry does it daily from soap stock. Let people satisfy their own curiosities rather than scaring them off paths that many have already taken..., and succeeded at one might add. Todd Swearingen Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, the sensible thing is to spending time and money producing BD from a cheap feedstock, not the other way around. Acid esterifications are often incomplete, and I assume that oils and fats with max 20% FFA are worth while bothering about, unless you are willing to do several acid esterification steps and draining off the produced water after each step.But in order to have a good conversion into BD, you finally have to run the alkaline transesterification step , also for neutralization. Good luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 07, 2006 3:26 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions Thanks Jan, If I had developed a method to separate FFA's from base stock without using chemicals or water say in the range of 95% separation in WVO (still a work in progress but hopeful results) so that I could React the Low FFA's in a Base method then would it be feasible to react the High FFA's In a separate Acid reaction? Or what problems would I encounter like the water problem you noted below? Would the FFA's be worth the trouble? Thanks Jim Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Jim, when using the acid esterification, you will have methyl esters, unreacted oil, sulphate ions, oxonium ions and - water. Proceeding to the base step you will create more methyl esters, potassium or sodium soaps, maybe a little unreacted oil or partially reacted oil, potassium or sodium sulphates and - even more water. This method works fine if the water content can be kept on a reasonable level. Please note that the higher the initial FFA level, the more water will be produced. With best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 3:01 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Acid - Base questions I have decided to try the acid/base method in small test batches as I have some High FFA (4ml) oil I would like to process. Since September I have gone to great lengths to get repeatability and accuracy in all my work with Biodiesel. I have read and re-read JtF and I know that I will no doubt read it several more times if I get stumped. I would like to start with fully understanding the process first. Before I start: Can you use KOH with the Acid Base method? It might be obvious, but I did not see it in the recipe as a substitution. When the acid gets done with Estrification properly then the mix that is left is basically an oil (triglycerides) , Methanol, and Sulfur ions ? Or did I miss something? When the Methoxil is added the Sulfur gets combined with the Sodium ions, (right?) how does this affect the reaction? Any good experienced information would be helpful, Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Re: [Biofuel] Jan's Methanol test
from this test?And finally should I be concerned by a
couple of percent contamination in my fuel? I did
search the mail archive twice using 'methanol test' and also 'Jan
Warnqvist' as keywords, but the returns were not so informative.
List members I need your wisdom! Jan perhaps you are most
qualified to answer but I would really like to get a sense of the
percentage of the list members who are running this test. So chime
in! Joe
**___
Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch
the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/___Biofuel
mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch
the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel?
Hello Kenji, heating the oil means that you are adding energy to the coming reaction. The reaction will go faster and become more complete than if you didn´t heat the oil. Trans-esterifucation processes can often take place in temperatures around 20oC and above. The glycerol settling will also go smoother and faster with a little temperature on it, say around 40 - 50ioC. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 5:14 AM Subject: [Biofuel] unheated oil for biodiesel? I've never tried making biodiesel without heating the oil, except in little demo batches (2 litre pop bottle). How necessary is it, and can anyone describe the chemistry or physics of it to me in dumb-dumb terms? Or maybe its in the archives, and someone could point me in the right direction. Thanks, Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method
Hello Bob, yes, you are right, recovered ethanol will likely contain 500 ppm of water. This ethanol can then possibly only be used in small portions for forward production of ethyl esters. It is however important to find out the purity of the recovered ethanol before any conclusions can be drawn. It is also likely that a big part of the water content of the biodiesel will enter the most polar phase (glycerol phase), which may make it possible to re-use the ethanol. It does not sound too thrilling to use E85 as an ethanol source. There are a number of research projects that have used gasoline-contaning ethanol, and this with production difficulties from time to time. Assuming that biodiesel from E85 is produced, the actual gasoline content would be max 15% of the esterified ethanol ,about 15% of 13-14% which makes max 2,1% in total gasoline content in the biodiesel. This amount will not influence the viscosity, nor the density severly. It is doubtful that it will effect the cetane number or the material compability properties more than marginally. However, if the ethanol is recovered, it is highly likeky to assume that some of the gasoline will enter this phase instead of staying in the biodiesel. The BD may still have an odour of gasoline though. AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 5:40 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method Jan, Wouldn't you expect that 500 ppm water would be picked up in any recovered ethanol, due to even a small amount of soap production? also if the ethanol used is for automobile use, is it an E-85 blend, ie, 15% gasoline? If so I would think that the gasoline would partition into any biodiesel made from this alcohol source. How would the gasoline impact the biodiesel? Jan Warnqvist wrote: Hello Bias Antonio, Ken is right, the NaOH dissolves a lot quicker in ethanol if heated. In order to make ethyl esters the quality of the reactants has to be high: ethanol min 99,5% pure and oil with a water content 500 ppm and a stochiometric surplus of ethanol of at least 75% and why not 100% ? The economy of this is depending upon your possibilities of recover the excess ethanol. Good luck to you AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2006 4:55 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol method On Jan 25, 2006, at 11:00 AM, Blas Antonio Guanes wrote: the problem is that, methanol costs 4 $ and pure ethanol for car costs 0.52 $, NaOH is gotten in any part.. KOH is sold in bags of 25 kilos for soap industry.. Here in Paragua it is difficult to get chemical products. for that reason I want know how I can make with oil, ethanol and NaOH Have you tried dissolving NaOH in pure anhydrous ethanol? It is difficult. If you can dissolve the required amount (perhaps by boiling the ethanol/NaOH mixture under reflux), you could possibly make biodiesel out of very clean dry oil. If you only use 3.5g NaOH per liter of oil, or if your ethanol or oil contain any water, you will probably never achieve separation of a glycerine phase. All your ingredients go into a clear solution, and just stay that way forever. Until glycerine separates, you don't have biodiesel. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- Bob Allen http://ozarker.org/bob Science is what we have learned about how to keep from fooling ourselves — Richard Feynman ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives
Re: [Biofuel] pH question
Hello Andrew, not to worry, that pH value is quite in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH determination, you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic. Example: pH 7 means that the amounts of H3O( acidic)and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10 powered by - 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3. If you have pH 6, this means that the H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6 moles/dm3 = 0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 = 0,0001 moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of 10 powered by -2 = 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10 powered by -12 = 0,0001 moles/dm3. This means thatif apH determination drops from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a drop from pH 6 to pH 7. The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains in the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ? Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Andrew Leven To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09 AM Subject: [Biofuel] pH question Hello, I'vemade and washed 4 test batches from different wvo oil sources andhave comeup with some quite clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out at pH 6 + or -. This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a consistent low reading like this? Andrew Leven ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] pH question
I have already been critizised for
leaving out the sub-understood meaning that the determinations should be carried
out in a water phase, since the H30 and OH ions are not detectable any where
else.
Jan
- Original Message -
From:
A. Secco
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 4:15
PM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH question
Dear Jan,
If I understand correctly somethingcan be
wrong with the pH measurementswhich Andrew made and
reported.
The pH can only be measured in an aqueous system
and not in an oil/fatty phase. It has no sense to put the probe in the oil
phase to measure pH. Remember that pH only applies were the water equilibrium
constant works.
Instead of measuring through an pH electrode it
is more convenient and accurate to measure the total acidity of the oil
phasewhich is made throug a titration with NaOH and reported as "acid
value"
Andres Secco
- Original Message -
From:
Jan Warnqvist
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 3:30
AM
Subject: Re: [Biofuel] pH
question
Hello Andrew,
not to worry, that pH value is
quite in order. When you judge the result of a correctly performed pH
determination, you should be aware of that the pH scale is logaritmic.
Example:
pH 7 means that the amounts of
H3O( acidic)and OH (hydroxide)ions are the same amounts, that is 10
powered by - 7 moles per dm3 = 0,001 moles/dm3.
If you have pH 6, this means that
the H3O ions are ten times more than the OH ions, H3O= 10 powered by -6
moles/dm3 = 0,01, and the OH ions are 10 powered by -8 moles/dm3 =
0,0001 moles/dm3.For pH 2 you have a concentration for the H3O ions of
10 powered by -2 = 0.01 moles/dm3 and the corresponding value for OH is 10
powered by -12 = 0,0001 moles/dm3. This means thatif apH
determination drops from pH 1 to pH 2, much more has actually happend than a
drop from pH 6 to pH 7.
The reason for pH 6 on biodiesel
could be that there is a content of free fatty acids or other acidic remains
in the biodiesel. Is this right, Bob ?
Jan Warnqvist
- Original Message -
From:
Andrew
Leven
To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 2:09
AM
Subject: [Biofuel] pH question
Hello,
I'vemade and washed 4 test
batches from different wvo oil sources andhave comeup
with some quite clear, light amber colored BD but it all seems to test out
at pH 6 + or -. This seems a bit low. Any ideas about what would cause a
consistent low reading like this?
Andrew Leven
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Visita www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en
Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos.
___Biofuel mailing
listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel
at Journey to
Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the
combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000
messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
___
Biofuel mailing list
Biofuel@sustainablelists.org
http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated
Hello Jim, if you knew the level of carbonation, it would be much simpler. If you treat this KOH as ordinary KOH, you will have a buffer solution in water or methanol. this buffer will not be as effective as you are used to. I suggest that you try a mini-batch and adjust the input of your new KOH according to that. Good luck ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: JJJN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: BIO Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 6:07 AM Subject: [Biofuel] KOH carbonated Hello everyone, I just got 50 #s of KOH for next to nothing. It is in flake form but it is carbonated to some extent (unkown). I have some lab grade KOH that is near absolute also. Can anyone give me a complete procedure to make a comparison (Strength %) of one to the other? I want to know because if the one is 10% weaker than the other then I should be able to increase the weaker by 10% to achieve similar results. I understand that from this point I must still tweek some one way or the other. Perhaps my thinking is flawed in assuming the relationship is proportional and I should just use better KOH? Any help would be greatly appreciated. Jim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO
Hello Tom, if your titration value is 1,9 , there is no need for additional treatment, since the acidic ions from the vinegar will be included in the titration value. However, you shoulddetermine the water content of the oil before processing it. A good value here is max 0,5%. Yes, you are right, the oxonium ions from the vinegar will produce water when neutralized and the complete reaction will be the following : H3O+ + Ac- + Na+ + OH- 2 H2O + Na+ Ac- but NaOH in methanol and in oil with some vinegar the following reaction takes place: Na+ + MeO - + H3O + Ac- + H2O MeOH + Na+ Ac- + 2 H2O This means that instead of one extra water molecule you will produce one molecule of methanol, since sodium hydroxide will form sodium methoxide and water in methanol. It is of some comfort, isn´t it ? Best of luck to you ! Jan Jan WarnqvistAGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89+46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 7:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Zeke, Mark and Doug, Thanks for your thoughts. The oil comes from a nice restaurant.Some of their appetizersare deep fried and could contribute acid to the oil. I just spoke to one of the kitchen staff. He said theyscrub the fryers w. vinegarand it goes, along w. the oil, into the grease dumpster. I suspect most of the vinegar settles out w. the water. I am interested in the role these water-soluble acids might play in the reaction and the byproductsmade. Since they are not fatty acids, they should not produce soap themselves, but won't lye + vinegar (acetic acid) produce sodium acetate and water? Should I try to neutralize the vinegarbefore dryingthe oil? Should I go to the trouble of washing the oil and allowing it to settle for a few weeks before drying it? It is good oil and there is a lot of it. Washed w. water, settled overnight, then dried, it titrates at 1.9g/L . Thanks again, Tom - Original Message - From: Doug Turner To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 11:58 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Hi Tom, Some restaurants will use a vinegar rinse after cleaning their fryer equipment. The intent is to extend the useful oil lifespan by neutralizing any bases (from the soaps) that may remain after cleaning. They should do a final water rise but many do not. This could be the source of your acid. Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Thomas Kelly To: biofuel Sent: Friday, February 17, 2006 8:56 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Vinegar in WVO Good day to all, I have anew source of WVO. It is very clear and light in color. I did a titration w/o drying it. I was surprised to find that it required 3.2ml of .1% lyeto neutralize each ml of oil. We heateda sampleof the oil and some water fell out.The dry oil titrated at 2.6ml of the lye solution. I shake-washed some of the oil in water and then dried the oil titration required only2.3ml of the lye solution.The wash water was ever so slightly acid. There seems to be water soluble acid(s) in this oil. While heating the oil, a friend commented on the smell. My wife came home and asked if we wereusing vinegar. Here's the questions: 1. Do restaurants either fry foods with vinegar in/on them? Do acids from frying cheeses (mozarella sticks) leach into the oil?Do restaurants clean their grills/friers w. vinegar? 2. Am I correct in assuming that these mysterious water-soluble acidswill be neutralized by the lye and will not contribute to soap formation? Thanks for listening, Tom ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing
Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO
Hello Zeke et al. A very unscientific trial feeding sugar into the air intake(without air filter) suggested that sugar does not harm the engine at all, just combusting together with tha gasoline. According to this experiment, the melting points and boiling points of the sugar (sackarose) are rather close. Jan AGERATEC AB Jan Warnqvist - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 6:21 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO What exactly would sugar do to an engine? The worst I can think of is clogging some filters or increasing carbon deposits. Zeke On 3/22/06, Bob Carr [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Nor sure about lard, but watch out for sugar in your feedstock. This is an old favourite additive for sabotaging an engine. Reg'ds Bob - Original Message - From: ROY Washbish To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, March 22, 2006 12:09 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] best source for WVO Hi All Don't donut shops use LARD that is SOLID at room temp? Isn't that lard full of sugar? Roy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: as i am just starting myself, i am thinking towards donut shops. they usually fry no meats in their veg oil and would have less fats. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ Yahoo! Mail Bring photos to life! New PhotoMail makes sharing a breeze. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Method
Hi everyone! Normally it takes some quite complicated laboratory equipment to establish the ester content of a batch biodiesel. Does anybody know of a reliable garage method (experimental or algebraic) to do the same job with an accuracy on percent level ? Jan Warnqvist +46 554 201 89 + 46 70 499 38 45 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
[Biofuel] Fw: Method
Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 27, 2005 3:03 PM Subject: Method Hi everyone! Normally it takes some quite complicated laboratory equipment to establish the ester content of a batch biodiesel. Does anybody know of a reliable garage method (experimental or algebraic) to do the same job with an accuracy on percent level ? Jan Warnqvist +46 554 201 89 + 46 70 499 38 45 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] A problem with WVO
Hello. I think that both the FFA content and water content are too high in that oil. The water content is the worst enemy for a good trans-etherification. Try this : Put the oil in a vessel at 70oC for 24 hrs. The water may form a separate phase at the bottom of the vessel. Check the water content. ExxonMobile sells a nice kit called Mobil water test. The active chemical compound in this is calciumdihydride. It is a reliable method. Do not try to transesterify again until the water content is around 0,5%. And- watch out for any remaining detergents in the oil ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 1:25 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A problem with WVO Kitch, Any suggestions ? Conduct a series of bracket titrations and/or move towards the acid/base process. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, March 05, 2005 9:54 AM Subject: [Biofuel] A problem with WVO Hello brothers and sisters. I have been making my own bio for about three years and have been very successful with it. I HAVE had some great failures such as filter clogging raw fat in the fuel, gertting it in the tank while some Glycerine was still separating - MORE clogged filters, but have learned so much that i now give free seminars and have about 50 people now brewing their own. So my problem is this: I have a restaurant that gives me about 20 gallons a week of Canola oil that they have cooked french fries and hot dogs in. Never too dirty, but quite dark. I have had BAD results with this stuff. I titrate and it always needs to have an excessive amount of lye added and when I do, I get a solid MESS. I have even tried to make various half litre batches with the same results - an almost solid block of GLOP. Now, i have added perhaps uip to 20% of this oil in with my more common crappy soy oil and THEN it works OK. Any suggestions ? Kitch in Az 99 Golf diesel 82 Vanny camper diesel 82 Vanny diesel grease getter Small diesels driving truck alternators backing up solar power ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] A problem with WVO
Hello. You are doing the right thing. But, remember that a high FFA content usually is managed with NaOH or KOH in excess or by a pre-staged acid transesterification. Water is not. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 06, 2005 4:20 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A problem with WVO Quoting Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Hello. I think that both the FFA content and water content are too high in that oil. The water content is the worst enemy for a good trans-etherification. Try this : Put the oil in a vessel at 70oC for 24 hrs. The water may form a separate phase at the bottom of the vessel. Check the water content. ExxonMobile sells a nice kit called Mobil water test. The active chemical compound in this is calciumdihydride. It is a reliable method. Do not try to transesterify again until the water content is around 0,5%. And- watch out for any remaining detergents in the oil ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hi Jan, I think my main problem is too much free fat in the oil. If I add 20-25% of it to my other soy oil that is little used for only two days at a street fair, then it converts really well, as the overall free fat content of the blended batch is low enough to work with just a one step lye/meth conversion. SO, I am going to move to a two step acid/meth-lye program with it. Watr saeems not to be a big issur here in the desert, but since you guys warned me, I'll sure check for it!! Thanks again SO MUCH and let's keep working to save our country from those that run it!! kitch in Az. - FastQ Communications Providing Innovative Internet Solutions Since 1993 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its high iodine number. As the case with fish oil, corn oil and several kinds of sunflower oil. A high iodine number is indicating that the oil may be chemically unstable due to its unsaturation level and therefore unsuitable as engine fuel both as SVO and BD. There are some companies producing me from oil with a high iodine number, and there is no practical difference between those products and the BD:s with a iodine number around or under 120 for the consumer.And may I add that the American B100 standard allows soy bean oil as raw material. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 3:19 AM Subject: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hi Everyone! I am a recent addition to the biodiesel world, due to a malfunction in my brain (age related no doubt) that caused me to go and buy a 190D.(I Love it just as I knew I would) . After I decided that buying the conversion kit from Elsbett wasn't necessarily the best option (due to local WVO quality concerns)by the way, if you come to Hawaii, where I live, and decide to eat in a restaurant, make sure you have healthinsurance, the glop they are using here to fry stuff in .. Seriously, though, the WVO I am getting here is is a mix of mostly Soybean oil used 100 times over and other unidentified saturated and unsaturated things. So I deciided to make BD. Now, Everything is running, I've done small batches, large batches, learned a lot, I am using itand now I just read that an Elsbett engineer said to stay away from Soybean oil, regardless if used straight or as feedstock for BD. Now, in my (brief) dealings with the Elsbett company I had the distinctive feeling that they have a little bit of an anti- BD leaning (maybe I got that because German is my native language) But in studying the resources further, and considering the high IV of soybean oil more questions as to its suitability seem to emerge Here are some questions: As far as suitability as a long term source for B100, how serious are the concerns in using BD made from this sort of an oil? What criteria in evaluating the finished product (beyond Mike Perry's criteria of pH and aspect) should serve as a go no go test? does a two step process improve the situation with the high number of double bonds (which leads to the high IV value, as I understand) Thanks for your consideration, Aloha ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello Keith ! Of course there is a possibility that unsaturated compounds interact in the lubricating oil, but if the engine«s combustion is proper, you do not have to expect big problems. But, there are other ways for the fuel to get in contact with the engine oil: It the engine is equipped with a row pump, with one pump element per injector, there is a possibility (due to construction error) that some of the fuel slips by the pump piston entering the engine oil. Some engine manufacturers refuse to acknowledge biodiesel, because once in the oil, it will not vaporise the way ordinary diesel engine fuel does. But the to be on the safe side, cut the oil change intervals by half, which is recommended by many engine manufacturers. Maybe you even can get Castrol to analyse samples of your oil and look for signs of polymerisation. You can safely assume that the EN 14214 is technically founded, although it has its shortcomings. For info on me with a high iodine number, I advice you to enter: www.scanbio.org for further information about the products of ESTRA AS. Best wishes Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hello Jan Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its high iodine number. As the case with fish oil, corn oil and several kinds of sunflower oil. A high iodine number is indicating that the oil may be chemically unstable due to its unsaturation level and therefore unsuitable as engine fuel both as SVO and BD. In other words, it polymerises - to quote Phillip Calais: Drying results from the double bonds (and sometimes triple bonds) in the unsaturated oil molecules being broken by atmospheric oxygen and being converted to peroxides. Cross-linking at this site can then occur and the oil irreversibly polymerises into a plastic-like solid. -- From Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Replacement Fuel by Phillip Calais, Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, and A.R. (Tony) Clark, Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc. http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm See: Iodine Values http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html#iodine But that's not quite what Elsbett's Alexander Noack is quoted as saying at the East Coast Region-United States Elsbett Workshop: Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is detrimental to the life of your lubricating system. What they do in Europe is use a vegetable-based lubricating oil for the engine to prevent any problems with fuel-lubricating oil intimacy. What else? They do not use soybean oil; They use rape seed also known as canola. So it would seem that Elsbett's reservations are not so much with polymerisation per se because of the high iodine number as with fuel-lubricating oil interactions. Can you shed any light on this? There are some companies producing me from oil with a high iodine number, and there is no practical difference between those products and the BD:s with a iodine number around or under 120 for the consumer. Can you quote any research that supports the conclusion that there is no practical difference? I've heard of drying problems with sunflower oil biodiesel, and even with rapeseed oil biodiesel (I don't have the reports, I was told they're in German) and I would not want to use linseed oil or tung oil. And may I add that the American B100 standard allows soy bean oil as raw material. Of course they do - how much do you think the soy councils and Big Soy had to do with that? They were involved at every level. Whatever the science may say, do you think it would have been possible for them to develop standards that excluded soy? Similarly, it's often said that the EU standard's stipulating a maximum iodine # of 120 (115 in France and Germany, while the US standard doesn't stipulate anything) is politically based, intended to exclude soy and protect European rapeseed oil production, but is that really all there is to it? If you really wanted to exclude drying problems you'd probably have to exclude rapeseed oil as well and stop at castor oil (85), but no doubt that would be as politically impossible in Europe as excluding soy would be in the US. In both, though less so in Europe perhaps, biodiesel and biofuels are still seen more as agricultural commodities issues than as energy issues. There is a whole
Re: [Biofuel] Neophyte seeks advice on runing 1983 Mercedes 300SD on BD
Hello Thomas. Congratulations to a good car choice. You may have filter clogging problems in the beginning of BD use. Therefore I recommend you to move the feed pump strainer (it is a strainer, not a filter) upwards so it can be easily reached from above for swift and simple exchange. this is done by longer rubber tubes. This will simplify the filter/strainer replacements. Good luck to you ! Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Thomas Giguiere [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 10:13 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Neophyte seeks advice on runing 1983 Mercedes 300SD on BD Hello. I am an aspiring biodieseler with an elementary background in chemistry. I would like to run my 1983 Mercedes 300SD on biodiesel. Can anyone recomend a good formulation to use? Should I make any modifications to the vehicle before I attempt to change over to BD? Any advice would be appreciated. Regards, Thomas Gigiuiere Folsom, CA ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hi John. In order to separate water from WVO by using a centrifuge, the most efficient way is to heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level. Best rgrds Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** Wilsonia Farm Kennel Preserve Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Ph-Fax (902)665-2386) Web: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/new.htm Pups: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/pup.htm Politics: http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/elect.htm http://www3.ns.sympatico.ca/goldens/c68.htm In Nova Scotia smoking permitted in designated areas only until 9:00 PM . After 9:00 it is okey to kill everyone. ^^^ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: R Del Bueno [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:16 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? This is a good question. I have found that gravity will take most of the free water out in time. Warming the oil to about 140degF speeds up the process. The use of a centrifuge speeds it up even further (but can be costly unless you stumble into a good deal on one). I know some folks are using some vacuum setups to lower the boiling point, and using flash evaporators and or thin film evaporators, but I wonder if it is needed. (As a side question...how much more efficient is a vacuum assisted evaporator from a total energy usage standpoint, than just heat, after all one must use energy to create the vacuum?) There still seems to be some debate over how dry the oil needs to be. For WVO/SVO fuel systems, I am not positive that small quantities of water are all that problematic...after all there are water injection systems out there, and a few companies that sell diesel /water emulsifiers in order to suspend water into diesel fuel as a method of altering combustion temperature to reduce NOX emissions. So from a combustion standpoint..seems that small amounts of water will simply turn to steam. Free water over time can collect in the fuel system and cause freeze issues, and corrode internal components of injection systems...but if you are running a dual tank WVO system, switching back to diesel prior to shutdown, there should not be water sitting in the injection system. Does a small amount of water affect the lubricity value of the WVO?..perhaps..but with the initial lubricity of WVO being so high, I suspect there is a bit of room to play. So far I have been running 10 micron filtered gravity settled oil (about a week at around 70degF) with a heated waterblock type filter in vehicle. Very little, if any water collects in the clear bowl. I have yet to run into any problems that indicate water problems...but only topping out at around 10k miles..so nothing definitive. I understand the need to dry WVO for biodiesel production, but wonder how needed it is for straight WVO as fuel. -Rob At 08:30 PM 3/8/2005, you wrote: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello Keith. The site is in Norwegian and English. Anti-oxidants are used as a reinsurance, since the temperatures of the car fuel tanks can rise to high levels. Anti-oxidants. Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 08, 2005 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hello Jan Hello Keith ! Of course there is a possibility that unsaturated compounds interact in the lubricating oil, but if the engine«s combustion is proper, you do not have to expect big problems. But, there are other ways for the fuel to get in contact with the engine oil: It the engine is equipped with a row pump, with one pump element per injector, there is a possibility (due to construction error) that some of the fuel slips by the pump piston entering the engine oil. Some engine manufacturers refuse to acknowledge biodiesel, because once in the oil, it will not vaporise the way ordinary diesel engine fuel does. But the to be on the safe side, cut the oil change intervals by half, which is recommended by many engine manufacturers. Maybe you even can get Castrol to analyse samples of your oil and look for signs of polymerisation. You can safely assume that the EN 14214 is technically founded, although it has its shortcomings. I'm sure it's technically founded, but I wouldn't assume that it was not also subjected to political pressures. For info on me with a high iodine number, I advice you to enter: www.scanbio.org for further information about the products of ESTRA AS. Fish-oil biodiesel... but I can't read Swedish, apologies. Do you quote any research studies there on polymerisation that might support your statement that there is no practical difference for the consumer between biodiesel made with drying oils (high iodine numbers) and biodiesel made with oils with an iodine number around or under 120? Oils with an iodine number of around or under 120 are classified as semi-drying oils, and both soy and sunflower fall into this category, with rapeseed oil (canola) at the lower end of the range. Polymerise they do, if not quite as fast as linseed oil will (why it's used in paint), as well as fish oils - see, eg: Anti-rust Paint from Fish-Scraps http://journeytoforever.org/farm_library/FishPaintJTF.pdf This is what Ken Provost said here recently about linseed oil biodiesel: Being a drying oil, it will crosslink eventually in the presence of oxygen, which will cause it to thicken. I have used linseed biodiesel in my car, but only as a minor constituent (plenty of soy esters, olive esters, etc. in addition to the linseed) and only when I was prepared to empty my tank quickly (eg, a long trip where I'd have to refill with petrodiesel halfway anyway). Fish oils can have a higher iodine # than linseed oil. How do you prevent fish-oil biodiesel from drying? Making biodiesel with it doesn't affect the degree of unsaturation. Do you hydrogenate the oil? That would help, but what does it do for the melting point? The semi-drying oils will also dry, but not as quickly. Oxidation and thermal stability are one of the concerns about biodiesel of the Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers (Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch). In their field trials with biodiesel they found increased dilution and polymerisation of engine sump oil. See: FIEM report http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html Results from fleet tests in in Europe (Bosch) have shown that after 60,000 km even DIN compliant fuel can damage the fuel injection system through polymerisation. I know of one such case of injector pump damage through polymerised fuel after only 40,000 km on B100. I think that if the EU's EN 14214 standard was entirely tchnically founded it might have excluded rapeseed oil; instead it has an IV cut-off of 120 and stipulates quite strict Oxidation stability levels, the only biodiesel standard specification to do so (though Australia has now followed suit). That looks like a compromise that allows for rapeseed oil as a feedstock and tries to limit the damage. There seems to have been a lot of trade in biodiesel anti-oxidants in Europe since EN 14214 was announced. Some American companies are also starting to offer biodiesel anti-oxidants - what do they know about soy biodiesel that we don't know (but are trying to find out)? Best wishes Keith Best wishes Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 07, 2005 7:56 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (Biofuel)[Fwd: Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Hello Jan Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way?
Hello, Keith and Rob. The water content in FAME according to EN 14214 is set to 500 ppm. In the long run you will have problems if the water content exceeds 0,5% and if the water content exceeds the percentage level, the problems will occur quickly and rising. BD is basically not storable for more than three months keeping an acceptable quality. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 5:22 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way? Hello Jan, Rob It is not recommendable with water together with SVO, WVO or BD for that matter. The oils consist from esters which are sensible to hydrolysis. This means that parts of the oil will crack by the influence of water. A water content too high will cause: 1) Severe filter clogging problems since many of the compounds formed by the hydrolysis are in solid shape, not liquid. 2) Corrosion in the fuel system, since many of the hydrolysis products are bound to be sour. Once hydrolosis has taken its course perhaps. But there is always water in biodiesel. The various standards set upper limits of 500-600ppm, but Camillo Holecek of Energea in Austria told us that no matter how dry you get it, it will quickly reabsorb water from the atmosphere to an average of about 1,500ppm, and that's what you'll have in the tank. That seems to be correct, and it doesn't seem to hasten hydrolosis. Frankly, I'm beginning to think all the cautions about degraded biodiesel are a myth, because I can't persuade any to degrade, and I'm not the only one. Maybe it has more to do with the commercial industry's use of the petro-diesel storage and delivery infastructure, which isn't all that great. We've had this discussion here about water content, water emulsions and water injection before a few times, there is quite a lot of information in the archives. For instance: http://www.dieselnet.com/ Water in Diesel Combustion [subscriber access] DieselNet Technology Guide È Engine Design for Low Emissions Water in Diesel Combustion Abstract: Addition of water to the diesel process decreases combustion temperatures and lowers NOx emissions. The most common methods of introducing water are direct injection into the cylinder, a process commercialized in certain marine and stationary diesel engines, and water-in-fuel emulsions. Emulsified fuels, due to increased mixing in the diesel diffusion flame, can be also effective in simultaneous reduction of PM and NOx emissions. Addition of Water to Diesel Process Fumigation of Water into Intake Air Direct Injection of Water Fuel Emulsions Practical Embodiments [more...] http://wwia.org/pipermail/biofuel/Week-of-Mon-20041115/002962.html Water Emulsions - Water-fuel emulsions are one of the few methods that can simultaneously control PM and NOx emissions. Depending on the engine, emulsions containing 20% water can reduce PM emissions by as much as 50%. It should be noted that other methods of water addition, such as direct injection, are not effective in controlling PM. http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/37764/ [Scroll down.] Here's a roundup below of some stuff we've had previously and some other stuff, on both water injection and water-fuel emulsions... http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/BIOFUEL/30409/ The US EPA lists 23 studies of water emulsions with dino-diesel: Following is a list of studies that are being considered for inclusion in work being done by EPA to assess the effects of water-fuel emulsions on emissions of oxides of nitrogen (NOx), hydrocarbons (HC), and particulate matter (PM). http://www.epa.gov/otaq/models/analysis/emulsion/emulbibl.pdf We've also had reports of successful use of biodiesel-alcohol-water mixes in Australia, on quite a large scale. As for hydrolosis, you're probably quite safe if you use it in a month or two, probably longer. Joe, re WVO: Hello to all: I'm wondering if anyone is using WVO and drying it before use. I filter it and it looks brite and clear but I worry that there may be water disolved in the oil. Is there a simple test for water content? Is there a simple method of removing moisture? I don't want to heat 50 gallons to 150C. Searching..___ Heat it to 60 deg C for 15 minutes then let it settle, at least overnight; draw from the top. Heating to high temps like 150 deg C can lock that water in there rather than boiling it off. If 60 deg C doesn't work you probably shouldn't be using that oil in an SVO system - find better oil. 60 deg C is safer too, no steam explosions. A quick test is to heat a little of the oil in a saucepan; if there's water it will start to crackle at 50 deg C or less; if it reaches 60-65 deg C and still no crackling then you don't have a water problem
Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way
Hello Norm. The centrifuge itself is calibrated for water, so its capacity with oil is a trial and error project. But unless the centrifuge is equipped with a feed pump, one has to go for a pump with adjustable capacity for starters. And be precise when choosing the gravity disc and the seal ring size at the outlet. Everything is working properly when you have sludge and water coming out of one outlet and pure oil from the other outlet. Never use a centrifuge or separator working with a water seal. The water content can be determined with a kit from ExxonMobil, Mobil water test kit. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Gmail - GaitedRidge [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 10, 2005 1:24 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi Jan, When you say : /heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level./ From the above statement I envision a closed system like a hot water tank type heater with an attached pump slowly circulating the WVO. What flow rate would you consider appropriate when shopping for a pump to do this and how are measuring the water content? Regards Norm Fillion [EMAIL PROTECTED] Manitoba - Hi John. In order to separate water from WVO by using a centrifuge, the most efficient way is to heat the water/WVO mix to 75-90oC and run it as a round circuit until the water content drops to a sufficiently low level. Best rgrds Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: John Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 09, 2005 3:01 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Re: Drying WVO - Is there a simple way Hi, I haven't tried this yet so it is only theory. I bought an old cream seperator(Centrifuge) and I am going to filter the wvo first then run it through the seperator and hopefully seperate any water from the WVO. Also going to try and recover Methy that way. Did you see the news on CNN that there is a country that makes a national drink from methanol called raki. WOW! ethanol is bad enough , but drink methanol that is absolutely redicilous. Yours truly John Wilson Goldens *** snip... ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo.cgi/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] diesel, is it cleaner?
Hi Andrew Tracy. There is a Swedish survey performed by Motor Test Center, in which FAME is compared with Swedish diesel oil Mk 1 and other similar fuels. The survey is focusing on the cancerogenity of the particulants of the fuel respectively. The results suggest that the semi-violate phase from biodiesel is more carcinogenic than the correspondent from diesel fuel. But, on the other hand that phase is much smaller from biodiesel than from diesel fuel, so it makes diesel fuel more dangerous anyway. http://www.mtc.se/eng/freport.htm Emissions from Use of RME Compared to Environmental Class 1 Diesel Fuel in a HD Vehicle It should be pointed out that this report has not brought much attention to itself. Best regards Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Andrew Tracey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 21, 2005 11:09 PM Subject: [Biofuel] diesel, is it cleaner? Back in the 80's there was a report published about the findings of number of independant scientists investigating the effects of burning diesel fuel and the connection to the big increase of asthma in children. Not only did they find the two very much connected, they also claimed diesel was responsible for causing cancer. Do you know anybody who has died from lung cancer that didn't smoke? It also went on to state it was one of the most dangerous substances known to man because of the increasing volume of usage. Does anybody remember this report?. I know several people who do- they all own diesel powered cars. It's funny how we all think that nothing is going to happen to us, just to the other bloke. Does anyone know of any research done on the effects of biodiesel on the human body? Is it less harmfull? I hope it is as i intend to make some. regards AT. ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Salt in WVO problem or not ??
Hello Denis. Addressing your question, the least you can expect is that most of the salt will dissolve in the rinsing water, if done properly and several times. And ordinary salt (NaCl) will not affect the pH value of the fuel. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Jelatancev Denis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 11:45 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Salt in WVO problem or not ?? hi to all, This is my first mail to the list. I am planing to make my first bach of BD, and one question bothering me for some time. How salt inside WVO can influence BD production process? Is it (salt) somehow taken out during BD production process or it stayes inside final product (BD)? I am asking that because I do not think that our TDI car engines would like salt in it fuel. I have done lot of reading but have never come across this kind of info. any visions about it ? thanks, Denis ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] Cladisporium resinae
Hi Phil, are you referring to the plant producing castor oil ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Phil Elaine [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 2:12 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Cladisporium resinae Hi there good people, does anyone out there have any experience of the growth of this organism in Bio? I've had a lot to do with it in my capacity as an aircraft Engineer and it's got rid of ( or kept under control at least ) by the addition of some pretty toxic chemicals to the fuel which effectively act as a weedkiller for want of a better expression. Look forward to any response. Phil Lloyd ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/
Re: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help
Hello Luke. I agree with you fully, but do not forget that SVO have a lower cetane number, and they tend to form deposits in the combustion surroundings. These deposits have a high cracking point (550-600oC) and the diesel engine is built for fuel with a max boiling point of 350oC, so the deposits will continue to form and grow until they cause trouble. Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: WM LUKE MATHISEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:13 PM Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Thanks for you input, I like the idea of capturing the heat and using it. I did just run into this from Biomass 2004 Biodiesel handling and use guidelines by the DOE enerty Efficiency and Renewable Energy. Raw or refined vegetable oil, or recycled greases that have not been processed into biodiesel, are not biodiesel and should be avoided. Research shows that vegetable oil or greases used in CI engines at levels as low as 10% to 20% can cause long-term engine deposits, ring sticking, lube oil gelling, and other maintenance problems and can reduce engine life. These problems are caused mostly by the greater viscosity, or thickness, of the raw oils (around 40mm 2/s) compared to that of of the diesel fuel for which the engines and injectors were designed (between 1.3 an d4.1 mm @/s). To avoid viscosity-related problems, vegetable oils and other feedstocks are converted into biodiesel. Through the process of converting vegetable oil or greases to biodiesel, we reduce viscosity of the fuel to values similar to conventional diesel fuel (biodiesel values are typically between 4 and 5 mm 2.s). I just paid $4000 for a genset and would like it to last the 20,000 to 50,000 hours it was designed for. Are there any studies out there that contradict the DOEs studies? - Original Message - From: Gene Chaffinmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 03/29/2005 10:45 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Set up help Jeremy: I started with an 8KW china diesel which runs at 2000rpm and consumed .8 gallons per hour. I now do not consider these china diesels capable of 24/7 operation, eventhough I did get 6,200 hours out of one. I am now using a Detroit 2-71 12 KW genset which consumes 1.1 gallons per hour of wvo. I have only been using the Detroit genset for two weeks now but I do like the fact that it revolves at a slow 1200 rpm and does not have a fuel injection pump like most diesel engines. I don't just produce electricity I also use the waste heat from the cooling system as well as the waste heat from the exhaust. The waste heat is used to heat up the vege oil and warm the water on my fish farm so the little rascals don't go into hybernation. If you make use of all of the parasitic heat available from your genset you will have no problem running straight veg oil, I don't care if you live in Alaska. It freezes where I am and I still had to install a swamp cooler to keep the generator room comfortable. Make use of the water jacket heat and exhaust heat to provide your domestic hot water and heat your house. I have not had any fuel system maladies. Most of the problems I was experiencing with the China diesels was with the valve train...they needed valve jobs every 2000 hours. My learning curve is rather long at this point so don't hesitate to pick my brain as you progress. I am now in the process of installing a 20 KW Northern Lights genset which has a similar engine to your Isuzu. It has the Bosh/Kiki fuel injection pump. I do not expect to have any problems with that conversion to wvo. Good luck. Gene Chaffin [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jeremy Sent: Tuesday, March 29, 2005 7:52 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Set up help Luke and Gene, Running straight WVO through your genset is great if you life in sunny california, but I would not rely on that in Missoula. WVO in Missoula would require a hefty investment in time and materials to create an environment equal to that of california in a shed. Also, it is very difficult to collect WVO oil in freezing temps, or do anything with WVO in freezing temps. I have a 12k isuzu generator that I am hoping to run with a diesel/biofuel mix. I think the best we could do is Biofuel in the summer and a mix in the winter, something greater than 50/50. I think it would be best to process your fuel in the summer, and store it with diesel for the winter. That would require knowing how much fuel you would need over the winter, probably close to a half gallon an hour for you lister petter. Gene: could you describe your generator, what load you run
Re: @SPAM+++++++++ RE: [Biofuel] Study predicts growth of HCCI engines
Hello Tom. No, quoting:HCCI is a low temperature combustion technology utilizing compression ignition of well-mixed air-fuel mixture.Unlike the conventional diesel engine, HCCI emits ultra low emissions of NOx and PM. On the negative side, it can produce increased HC and CO emissions. This is a diesel engine, no doubt. The Sterling engine works with external combustion and takes advantage of the expansion (not combustion) of the working gas (hydrogen, helium, or air). Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: 'Keith Addison ' [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 8:37 PM Subject: @SPAM+ RE: [Biofuel] Study predicts growth of HCCI engines Hi all, Are these HCCI engines related to the Sterling engine I've just starting to learn about? Tom Irwin -Original Message- From: Keith Addison To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: 3/30/05 1:33 PM Subject: [Biofuel] Study predicts growth of HCCI engines DieselNet UPDATE March 2005 http://www.dieselnet.com/ Study predicts growth of HCCI engines A new study analyzing trends in heavy-duty vehicle powertrain technologies by 2020 has been released by TIAX, a collaborative product and technology development firm, and Global Insight, an industry forecasting firm. One of the findings of the study is a predicted growth in homogeneous charge compression ignition (HCCI) engine technology which will be displacing conventional heavy-duty diesel engines. The study also predicts greater use of heavy-duty hybrid vehicles. The study, titled The Future of Heavy-Duty Powertrains, was commissioned by a group of oil companies, engine and vehicle manufacturers, and component suppliers to investigate the impact of more stringent emissions regulations, increased traffic congestion, and a shortage of skilled drivers for large vehicles on the heavy-duty vehicle industry in North America, Europe, and Japan. Key findings of the report include: - HCCI engines will power nearly 40% of heavy-duty vehicles by 2020. Initially HCCI will only be able to power light loads at low speeds so early versions of the engine will also incorporate conventional diesel combustion to supply more power when greater demand is placed on the engine. A full mode HCCI engine will eventually supersede the mixed mode HCCI/diesel technology. - By 2020, 15-25% of heavy-duty vehicles globally will incorporate either hybrid electric or hydraulic hybrid technology. The rapid deployment of hybrid technology in the heavy-duty vehicle industry will be driven by savings on fuel and brake maintenance by vehicle operators. - The demand for self-shifting transmission technology in heavy- duty vehicles will increase dramatically over the next 15 years. The self-shifting transmissions can maximize fuel efficiency and to broaden the labor pool from which drivers can be recruited because trucks with automated or automatic transmissions are easier to drive. HCCI is a low temperature combustion technology utilizing compression ignition of well-mixed air-fuel mixture. The major technical challenge in HCCI is the control of combustion, with most of today's engine prototypes being able to sustain the HCCI combustion mode only at low to medium engine loads. Unlike the conventional diesel engine, HCCI emits ultra low emissions of NOx and PM. On the negative side, it can produce increased HC and CO emissions. The predicted growth in HCCI engines is particularly significant in that the exhaust gas aftertreatment systems currently being developed- -targeting mostly NOx and PM emissions--and expected to reach the market in the next few years will start to become obsolete by 2020. Instead, HCCI emission aftertreatment would need to target HC and CO emissions at very low exhaust temperatures. Summary: http://www.globalinsight.com/publicDownload/genericContent/03-03-05_P T_overview.pdf Purchase the report: http://www.globalinsight.com/MultiClientStudy/MultiClientStudyDetail1 629.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http
Re: @SPAM+++++++++ Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine
I agree with you Todd. All chemical reactions of this kind carries a number of side reactions, but the amount or appetence of the glycerol cocktail cannot be used for judging the success of the transesterification(unless it is 10% by mass), but a determination of the content of the glycerol cocktail might give a clue. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:55 PM Subject: @SPAM+ Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Jan Paul, It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. All base processing creates soap. What everyone keeps referring to as glycerine settling out of a transesterification (base) reaction is for the most part soap, diluted with methanol and glycerol. The volume of glycerol per liter of oil processed is ~7.9% (~79 mililiters). The excess alcohol present in this layer (glycerin cocktail) is ~65ml when initially using 200 ml per liter. The balance is soap. Different oil and fat feedstocks produce different types of soap. If your feestock was primarily soybean oil on Monday but coconut oil on Tuesday, the latter would in general yield a more solid glyc cocktail. If the feedstocks were soybean oil on both days but Tuesday's was extremely degraded (high FFA) then the latter would yield a harder glyc cocktail. If the feedstock on Monday had less animal fat in it than that on Tuesday the latter would generally yield a harder or more viscous glyc cocktail. The same happens when using different catalysts. In soap making sodium hydroxide (lye) is used to produce bar soaps (hard) and potassium hydroxide is used to produce liquid soaps (solid like thick bread dough but more soluble). When using potassium hydroxide the glyc cocktail generally never thickens beyond that of maple syrup. Hardened or thinned glyc cocktails don't necessarily indicate mistakes or correctness in processing. Todd Swearingen - Original Message - From: Jan Warnqvist [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 3:01 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hello Paul. It seems to me that you produced some soap that time. Did you measure the FFA content before starting ? Best regards Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: Paul Tanner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 1:00 AM Subject: [Biofuel] liquid glycerine Hi, I've been making Biodiesel (BD) for a few months, now.. using the Mike Pelly method.. and a curious thing happened with the last batch (my batches are in approx. 160 - 180 litres).. the glycerine was liquid after the reaction. This is the first time this has occurred for me, all other times the glycerine formed and settle in my tank, and was solid at low temperatures. I had measured accurately, the quantities of methanol, caustic soda and volume of oil...( I had an interested observer, who can testify if required!! :-) ) I watched the colour of the mixture change, as I was agitating, from a light caramel colour to a dark molasses colour... then observed the glycerine start to settle, as expected. At this time the glycerine was quite warm, so was still liquid, however, I let the mixture settle for a 2 week period and the glycerine has not set firm. maybe I should not complain.. 'cos it was easy to drain out of the tank! :-) Did the reaction not go far enough? Any further ideas on what has happened?? regards, Paul. --- Paul Tanner Software IT Architect Melbourne, Australia ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.308 / Virus Database: 266.8.4 - Release Date: 3/27/2005 ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://wwia.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuel archives at Infoarchive.net (searchable): http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ ___ Biofuel mailing list [EMAIL
Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello DB. Quoting :Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largely eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. I can add that this is the exact scenario with methyl ester from fish oil and linseed oil. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: DB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Anyone making bio-diesel should be concerned with the IV of the oil and the polymerzation of the engine. After a careful reading of the australian report WVO as a Diesel replacement fuel it is obvious that they are concerned with it's use as straight veggy oil and Not so much Bio-diesel.( I would be concerned too) Here is a direct quote from that report. Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largly eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. The base crop for european biodiesel being rapeseed with a IV of 98 is a reasonable goal to acheve. Most of my stock is soy oil and much of it is hydrogenated. I also get cottonseed and peanut oil along with canola (rapeseed) I no longer use straight soy oil and try to make a blend. In the past when I only had soy oil based biodiesel I would only run BD50. I an no longer worried about the IV of the oil and if you are then just run BD50.Drive down the road Happy...DB ..PS. I have been making biodiesel since '02 and have made 1000's of gallons with zero problems. - Original Message - From: TLC Orchids and Such [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Where can we get the veg-based motor oil? Can better oil filtering help with this problem? Racor has a motor oil filter used in race cars. - Original Message - From: stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Thanks for the follow up, Keith. I have since spent many hours researching the issue and have found some relevant facts here: www.blt.bmlf.gv.at/vero/veroeff/0100_Technical_performance_of_methyl_esthers _e.pdf #www.blt.bmlf.gv.atveroveroeff0100_Tec Keith Addison wrote: Hello Stephan, Jan and all I asked Elsbett's Alexander Noack for some comment on what he was quoted as saying about soy oil, and got a very brief response from him: Hi Keith, this all is nearly correct, but only for direct injection engines. Mit freundlichen Gr§en / Best regards Alexander Noack ELSBETT Technologie GmbH Weissenburger Stra§e 15 D-91177 Thalmaessing Internet: www.elsbett.com e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +49 (0)9173 77940 Fax: +49 (0)9173 77942 This was the quote in question: Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is detrimental to the life of your lubricating system. What they do in Europe is use a vegetable-based lubricating oil for the engine to prevent any problems with fuel-lubricating oil intimacy. What else? They do not use soybean oil; They use rape seed also known as canola. Best wishes Keith Hello Jan Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its high iodine number. As the case with fish oil, corn oil and several kinds of sunflower oil. A high iodine number is indicating that the oil may be chemically unstable due to its unsaturation level and therefore unsuitable as engine fuel both as SVO and BD. In other words, it polymerises - to quote Phillip Calais: Drying results from the double bonds (and sometimes triple bonds) in the unsaturated oil molecules being broken by atmospheric oxygen and being converted to peroxides. Cross-linking at this site can then occur and the oil irreversibly polymerises into a plastic-like solid. -- From Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Replacement Fuel by Phillip Calais, Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, and A.R. (Tony) Clark, Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc. http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm See: Iodine Values http
Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?]
Hello DB. Quoting :Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largely eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. I can add that this is the exact scenario with methyl ester from fish oil and linseed oil. Jan Jan Warnqvist AGERATEC AB [EMAIL PROTECTED] + 46 554 201 89 +46 70 499 38 45 - Original Message - From: DB [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, March 31, 2005 9:16 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Anyone making bio-diesel should be concerned with the IV of the oil and the polymerzation of the engine. After a careful reading of the australian report WVO as a Diesel replacement fuel it is obvious that they are concerned with it's use as straight veggy oil and Not so much Bio-diesel.( I would be concerned too) Here is a direct quote from that report. Trans esterifying triglyceride oils and fats with monohydric alcohols to form biodiesel largly eliminates the tendency of the oils and fats to polymerization and auto-oxidation.. The base crop for european biodiesel being rapeseed with a IV of 98 is a reasonable goal to acheve. Most of my stock is soy oil and much of it is hydrogenated. I also get cottonseed and peanut oil along with canola (rapeseed) I no longer use straight soy oil and try to make a blend. In the past when I only had soy oil based biodiesel I would only run BD50. I an no longer worried about the IV of the oil and if you are then just run BD50.Drive down the road Happy...DB ..PS. I have been making biodiesel since '02 and have made 1000's of gallons with zero problems. - Original Message - From: TLC Orchids and Such [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 4:37 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Where can we get the veg-based motor oil? Can better oil filtering help with this problem? Racor has a motor oil filter used in race cars. - Original Message - From: stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; stephan torak [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, March 30, 2005 5:45 PM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Re: soybeanoil a bad choice for BD making?] Thanks for the follow up, Keith. I have since spent many hours researching the issue and have found some relevant facts here: www.blt.bmlf.gv.at/vero/veroeff/0100_Technical_performance_of_methyl_esthers _e.pdf #www.blt.bmlf.gv.atveroveroeff0100_Tec Keith Addison wrote: Hello Stephan, Jan and all I asked Elsbett's Alexander Noack for some comment on what he was quoted as saying about soy oil, and got a very brief response from him: Hi Keith, this all is nearly correct, but only for direct injection engines. Mit freundlichen Gr§en / Best regards Alexander Noack ELSBETT Technologie GmbH Weissenburger Stra§e 15 D-91177 Thalmaessing Internet: www.elsbett.com e-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] phone: +49 (0)9173 77940 Fax: +49 (0)9173 77942 This was the quote in question: Soybean oil is bad. Whether it is straight vegetable oil or soybean based biodiesel. It is a no-go in diesel engines. Why? In diesel engines you have slight mixing between fuel and lubricating oil. There is a fuel property in soybean oil that makes it reactive when in contact with engine lubricating oil. It supposedly has a polymerizing action with the engine oil, which is detrimental to the life of your lubricating system. What they do in Europe is use a vegetable-based lubricating oil for the engine to prevent any problems with fuel-lubricating oil intimacy. What else? They do not use soybean oil; They use rape seed also known as canola. Best wishes Keith Hello Jan Hello Stephan. The reason for Elsbett«s people (and several others) for rejecting soy bean oil is its high iodine number. As the case with fish oil, corn oil and several kinds of sunflower oil. A high iodine number is indicating that the oil may be chemically unstable due to its unsaturation level and therefore unsuitable as engine fuel both as SVO and BD. In other words, it polymerises - to quote Phillip Calais: Drying results from the double bonds (and sometimes triple bonds) in the unsaturated oil molecules being broken by atmospheric oxygen and being converted to peroxides. Cross-linking at this site can then occur and the oil irreversibly polymerises into a plastic-like solid. -- From Waste Vegetable Oil as a Diesel Replacement Fuel by Phillip Calais, Environmental Science, Murdoch University, Perth, Australia, and A.R. (Tony) Clark, Western Australian Renewable Fuels Association Inc. http://www.shortcircuit.com.au/warfa/paper/paper.htm See: Iodine Values http
