Re: [EVDL] Towing 4 wheels down Spark EV or Leaf
Have you tried asking thie question on one of the net forums dedicated to the Spark EV? Regardless of where you find the answer, please report back. Thanks, David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Selling an EV on EBay
On 21 Nov 2016 at 13:21, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: > I'm curious if this is normal. On 21 Nov 2016 at 13:21, Mark Hanson via EV wrote: > I'm curious if this is normal. No, it's not. This guy is trying to rip you off. This sounds like the fake money order / cashier's check scam. Paste into browser: v.gd/3lpdyH I suggest that you cancel the transaction. Paste into browser: pages.ebay.com/help/sell/cancel-transaction-process.html You should also report this buyer to Ebay. Paste into browser: pages.ebay.com/help/buy/report-trading.html Unfortunately for sellers, Ebay mostly tends to side with the buyer (which has driven many sellers away in recent years). Your scammer may try to use Ebay against you by opening a non-delivery case. I suggest you move quickly in hopes of preventing this. But I'm not an expert on Ebay selling, far from it, so I hope that those folks who have more experience will add to this. It's something we all face when trying to sell EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] GM Killed The (Bolt) Electric Car
On 22 Nov 2016 at 10:56, David "Battery Boy" Hawkins via EV wrote: > I'm assuming EVerybody caught this story about the Alliance of Automobile > Manufacturers, which includes GM and Toyota? 'Fraid so. :-( Threads started on the 11th and 12th: http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4684434 http://www.evdl.org/archive/index.html#nabble-td4684425 David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Sold-out: $49mo, $0dwn 500e EV deal @Costa_Mesa-CA dealer> ends after Sunday
On 27 Nov 2016 at 23:56, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > The yelp listing for that dealership is good. LA shoppers would not rate > that high if the dealership had shady practices like bait and switch. Thanks for looking into this. That said, though I don't know about LA, around here, I've found that Yelp reviews just aren't trustworthy. Like so much else on the net these days, too many of them are bogus, posted by paid astroturfers. So the dealership might indeed be on the up-and-up, but I question whether those reviews will tell you whether it is. Maybe you have a reason for more confidence in them though. Personally, I'd place more trust in the experiences of EVDLers in getting their EVs there, since (at least so far) the EVDL seems to be mostly under the astroturfers' radar. Anyone? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161121
On 21 Nov 2016 at 16:42, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > OK, so stay away from the current (defunct) jstraubel (dot) com website My computer didn't do anything strange at that URL, but I also run Noscript and have a large hosts file blocking most malware sites. I did see a script listed for sedoparking.com. Sedo appears to be an ad farm, a way to "monetize" your unused domain names, so I'd agree that it's probably better to stay away. I see no evidence that the other links (evalbum and archive.org) are in any way harmful. The archive of the pusher is in fact quite interesting, and I recommend checking it out if you've never before heard of this form of EV range extender. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
On 17 Nov 2016 at 14:24, paul dove via EV wrote: > The analysis showed that, based on reported incidents, hybrids are no > more dangerous to pedestrians than other vehicles, and little variation > exists in how and why blind or sighted pedestrians die in vehicular > incidents. Ah, but we can't let facts get in the way of what someone FEELS must be correct. :-( Thanks for posting this, not that it's going to make any difference to the folks in charge. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Cheap L2 charging in parking places: Bolt EV'sIn Production
On 11 Nov 2016 at 15:38, ROBERT via EV wrote: > I guess concern about people misusing public NEMA receptacles does have some > merit or a least in India. v.gd/BOrzpV (that's a URL -- copy and paste into your browser) terrylove.com/forums/index.php?threads/electrical-wiring-in-india.5074 (ditto, goes to same place) David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Automakers lobby for "relief" from EVs
Is anyone in the least surprised by this? Asia and the EU continue to adopt EVs. There are even some smaller areas that seek to convert to a 100% EV fleet. The US automakers are essentially saying "No thanks, we don't want to sell cars there." Their loss. I've said this before, but it bears repeating. When the oil shortages of the mid-1970s hit, Detroit was caught flat-footed. Their best efforts at high-efficiency ICEVs were the Ford Pinto and Chevrolet Vega. If you're too young to recall them, look them up on Wikipedia and have a good chuckle. Nissan and Toyota, however, had lots of good, small, efficient cars to sell. Their dealers were charging hundreds of dollars in "additional dealer markup" and still the cars kept flying off the lots. Meanwhile, 13 mpg Detroit iron languished in the murky sunshine. It will happen again. They just don't learn. As for who voted for whom, and whether anyone is to blame, that's off topic and none of anyone's business to boot. That's why we have secret ballots in the US, one of the things that ... uh ... make our country great. :-\ David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Cheap L2 charging in parking places: BoltEV'sInProduction
Thanks for fixing my URL. Sorry, I did leave off the trailing digit when pasting it into the message. India is not alone in having electrical chaos. It's that way in a dismaying number of less well developed nations. No innovation-stifling regulation! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] GM Killed The (Bolt) Electric Car : GM only selling Bolt in CA ...
History tells us that -- for better and/or worse -- what governments do makes a big difference in whether EVs advance or retreat. Bruce is 100% correct that GM's specific history predicts their current and future involvement with EVs. As I said a couple of weeks ago, I'm still waiting for that Chevette EV that GM promised in 1978. I guess I'll be waiting a lot longer. (Disclosure: That's a rhetorical statement. Personally, I wouldn't buy any GM vehicle at any price under any circumstances. Also, having known someone who owned a 1980 Chevette: yikes, noo ... ) All that said, unless the state or fed legislators make it illegal, the sure way to drive electric is and probably aways will be to build your own. Normally that would entail converting an ICEV. I think I can safely say that EV conversion has been the EVDL's largest and most critical mission since it was first launched at sjsu.edu 25 years ago. If and when no automaker will sell you an EV here in the US, or you can't get the type of vehicle you need with a motor under the hood, drop on by the EVDL. We'll be here to help. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Noise
On 15 Nov 2016 at 14:50, wayne alexander via EV wrote: > The 86 was so quite I put a very small green light next to the key to > remind me it was running..you just could not hear it at all . Maybe you inside the car couldn't, but what about pedestrians outside on the street and sidewald? In this discussion, that's what matters. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
On 15 Nov 2016 at 12:40, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: > Make one 2 ft or so from the curb that will stop the phone from > working and say something both audibly and visually ... I can just see this: You're reporting an emergency to 911 and you get cut off. You're recording a cop beating up an innocent old lady and your phone shuts down. You're plugging into an EVSE, trying to activate it on your phone, and you can't. Safety regulations are good things where the individual has no power to gain improvement. That's why FMVSS are a net positive. Without that legislation, cars today probably wouldn't have seat belts or crush zones -- basically they'd be little improved from 1959 Chevrolets. "Safety doesn't sell." But ultimately every individual has to take personal responsibility for his own safety. When you're using a mobile phone on the street, you have to have the good sense to pay attention to what's around you. If you have to give your full attention to the phone for a while, STOP in a safe place, whether you're driving or walking. That is your responsibility. I might go along with something that beeps and pops up a window saying something like "Danger, cross traffic ahead," but disabling the phone? Nope nope nope nope nope nope nope nope. Sorry, not a good idea. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] GM Killed The (Bolt) Electric Car
On 20 Nov 2016 at 11:43, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > If China and India and Europe and several countries of S America and > Asia are moving to electric transportation then it is pretty irrelevant > what happens in USA ... I wouldn't go so far as to say "irrelevant," because the US is (at least for the moment) a pretty large market for new vehicles. But it's far from the only market. Vehicle demand is trending up in places we would have called "third world" just a few years ago, and some of those places think that EVs might be a good idea. It's possible that success in rolling back EV demand in the US might prompt the automakers to try similar strategies in other countries. Some of them will no doubt be open to it. Early UK legislative proposals after the "Brexit" vote had to do with weakening environmental laws, some of which were originally passed to comply with EU regulations. That is likely to spread. Radical political changes have already taken place in Hungary and Poland. "Brexit" style changes are also somwhere between possible and likely over the next few elections in France, Austria, Germany, Netherlands, and Sweden. We could see the weakening or even the complete breakup of the EU. That would be a dismaying setback for environmental law and for EVs. I guess this all sounds kind of dire (just call me Mr Worst Case Scenario), but still my hope is that EVs are close to some kind of critical mass internationally. If that's true, EVs WILL be manufactured around the world. Despite Elon Musk's confidence it's still a tough slog for a small upstart automaker (look what happened to Pivco / Think), so let's hope the EV manufacturers' list continues to include Tesla. Which of these EVs are offered in the US will depend on many factors, from perceived demand and profitability to impending US protectionism and economic isolation. For example, tightening US FMVSS while loosening emissions regulations would favor large US ICEVs at the expense of imports, smaller vehicles, and EVs. > besides a repeat of the 70's where the USA automakers were wiped away > by events beyond their control due to their lack of preparation for > change (not entirely unlike Dinosaurs). I think that's likely, but who knows when? OPEC was pretty successful in throttling the US with their oil blockade, but that was 40+ years ago, and our petroleum sources are more diverse now. There's also that protectionist sentiment I mentioned above. OTOH, big energy companies already have plenty of market control, and I sure don't see that diminishing. I can imagine an internal US version of OPEC, or an Enron style cartel, manufacturing an artifical fuel shortage for the sake of their profits, just as well as I can imagine an actual depletion of reserves. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_electricity_crisis Also, weakening US MPG and energy efficiency requirements could trigger a small orgy of energy consumption here. That would hasten the "day of petroleum reckoning." (It would also be pretty bad news for the rest of the world.) Interesting times, indeed. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chevy Volt in long term storage?
Storing it with the traction battery at 50% or so is in accord with usual good practice for lithium batteries. I would not suggest storing it at full charge, especially if it's going to be in a warm-to-hot storage facility. I would be at least as concerned, if not more so, about the ICE components gumming up in long term storage than about traction battery problems appearing. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] How cum zit? cid #'s added to nabble-archived URLs > fail to open links
I did some further investigation of this. I am NOT seeing the extraneous glop on the end of the URL which Bruce describes in the status bar of the following browsers: Seamonkey 2.33.1, Firefox 45.0.2, Opera 12.16, and Midori 0.2.2. I AM seeing the ";cid=" junk in the status bar of the following browsers: Chromium 27.0.1421.0 and QTWeb Portable 3.7.3. I expect that Safari, Chrome, and newer versions of Opera (all Webkit-based browsers) would act like the latter two browsers. Oddly, when I view the source of the page in ANY browser, this garbage doesn't appear in any of the links. I suspect this junk is being generated in the browser by a tracking script on the Nabble server. Speculation here, I admit, but maybe we normally wouldn't notice it but for the fact that someone at Nabble has accidentally introduced a bug into their script. I'm under deadline for a project right now and can't spend any more time on this tonight, but I'll look into it later this week. In the meantime, here are a couple of things you can do. One is to use a Mozilla based browser at the Nabble archive. Mozilla seems to strip off the garbage after the semicolon. (I think.) Webkit browsers such as Chrome and Safari apparently don't. (I think.) Or, be safe and just don't click directly on any links in a Nabble post. Instead, highlight and copy the link text as displayed, open a new browser window or tab, and paste the link text into the URL field on the new window/tab. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
On 15 Oct 2016 at 6:14, Mark Abramowitz via EV wrote: > If you assume that the amount of gold used is the same as amount of silver > used (it's actually much less), then using gold is actually *cheaper* than > using silver if the battery lasts 400 times longer True, but maybe immaterial for EV use. A 200,000 cycle battery would power a 200 mile per charge EV for 40 million miles. At 20,000 miles per year, that's 2000 years of driving. You could pass your EV (or at least its battery) down through 60 or so generations. Talk about gold as a family heirloom! If I read it right, the original article seems to be saying that the gold isn't active material in the battery (which figures), but rather a carrier of the active material. Thus it's not really comparable to a silver-zinc battery. It also says that the amount of gold used is "minuscule," but "that would still make these batteries be expensive to manufacture." It also postulates that some cheaper metal might work too. IF this battery design pans out, and I'm sure it has a LONG way to go before it will ever be scaled up for production, it seems like the kind of battery that NASA would use. But it would in theory have such a long cycle life (again IF it pans out) that it would far outlast any device it powered, so I just don't know what its application would be. IBesides, I suspect that battery manufacturers would prefer to make batteries that have to be replaced now and again. :-( David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 2nd life for lithium batteries
On 16 Oct 2016 at 15:57, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > It is hard to knock a battery with nearly infinite cycles. Unless you're a battery manufacturer ... A battery that never needs to be replaced would be a real game changer for the business. I hope I'm wrong, but I don't think any manufacturer would touch it for fear of losing their replacement business. Maybe you've noticed that as LED retrofit light bulbs have fallen in price, their rated lifetimes have gotten shorter. The early ones were rated for 50,000 average hours; many now are rated for 10,000-20,000 hours. The same thing happened with compact fluorescents, which quickly declined from 10,000 hours to 6,000. This parallels what happened with incandescent light bulbs. When mass production tungsten filament bulbs first came on the market, they burned for ~2500 hours. Then the manufacturers formed a cartel and agreed to limit their bulbs' lives to 1000 hours. I suppose it sounds cynical, but I expect that if this battery ever makes it to the market, it will have a deliberately limited lifetime. I can see them making several different versions, identical except for price and the configuration of the built-in self-destruct mechanism. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161206
On 6 Dec 2016 at 3:24, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > General Motors Co. stands to lose as much as $9,000 on every Chevrolet Bolt > that leaves a showroom once the all-electric subcompact starts rolling out ... I was under the impression that most entirely new cars (regardless of their motive source) were money-losers in their first years. That's supposedly why automakers prefer to build "new" models by adapting established bases, no? It keeps the tooling costs lower. But GM don't whine about new ICEVs losing money, only new EVs. Gosh, I wonder why that is. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] A. D. Little EV vs ICE report
On 11 Dec 2016 at 22:41, Bill Dube via EV wrote: > I guess this is how "fake news" originates. You could say that, but the term "fake news" is just a new name for an ancient problem: propaganda. Wealthy and influential people and institutions don't take well to change when it might affect their profits. Any time you pursue something contrary to their interests, you'll eventually get slammed with propaganda. Don't forget that a couple of fairly well-known and extraordinarily well- heeled billionaires, whose money is partly in oil, have recently begun dumping dollars into a campaign explicitly designed to keep people burning oil in their ICEVs and NOT buying EVs. Plenty of "researchers" are happy to take some of their money to de-educated the public about EVs. In the EV world this is nothing new, nor is the wide publicity it's given. In 1995, Science magazine published a Carnegie Mellon University report claiming that (among other things) lead release into the environment was 60 times as high from a GM Impact prototype (later the EV1) as from a 1970s ICEV burning leaded gasoline! They came to this bizarre conclusion by assuming the most pessimistic values for every possible variable -- battery cycle life, range per cycle, energy use per mile by the EV, total amount of lead in the battery, amount of recycled lead used, and many more. This study was published despite the fact that had never been peer-reviewed. It was also widely quoted in the mainstream media, including the New York Times. The Times should have known better. So should have Science. And most definiely CMU, which was, and is, a respected university. But when 13 million bucks (almost $21 million in today's money) lands in your lap to pay for such a study, as it did for CMU, that can be mighty tempting. I'll bet you can guess where that grant money came from. Lead is no longer much of a factor in the attack on EVs, but The anti-EV forces will always find something to beat us up on. They're masters at finding ways to bend statistics to suit their pre-ordained conclusion. The folks most susceptible to their propaganda are those who are least educated. Well, guess what -- the education quality in the US is in decline. Propaganda also spreads with lightning speed today, thanks to uncritical sharing on social media. Still, let's be blunt here: ignorant people by and large never have been and probably never will be interested in EVs. It's the well educated who are already open to them. Luckily, educated people are the ones most likely to listen when you rebut propaganda with facts. Unfortunately the EV movement still has limited resources to counter this garbage -- and as usual, the bad guys have a LOT of money behind them. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] OT: Re: Leafs too cheap
On 17 Dec 2016 at 17:13, paul dove via EV wrote: > Typically, the full range of hearing can be reproduced using the frequencies > from 20 Hz to 20 KHz. Sound must be sampled at least double the highest > frequency present that needs to be reproduced, 44.1k (twice 20 kHz plus a > little extra) samples/second for good music quality. > > The average human ear can differentiate approximately 90dB of range from the > softest sounds to the loudest. Eight bits gives 48dB of range while 16 bits > gives 96 dB of range and is often used for sampling digital audio. The effective usable dynamic range in a car on the highway, even in an EV, is about 30-35dB. Below that the audio gets lost in the car's background noise. I'm confident that 8 bit quantization would be plenty in a car, though no one I know of uses it for auto music systems. Frequencies above around 10kHz will be masked by the background noise, too. A 32kHz sampling rate would be plenty for a car, though again, no one I know of uses it. In fact if you're over about 45 or 50 years old, chances are you can't hear anything over 15kHz anyway. (I could barely hear 18kHz when I was a teenager. Today my hearing falls off at around 15kHz, and I'm lucky it's that high.) And by the way, stereo FM radio's bandwidth is ... yep, 15kHz. What matters in a moving vehicle is not the sampling rate, or the bit depth (quantization). It's the encoding bit rate and algorithm. Nearly all digital audio sources, except for CDs, use some kind of data compression. (MP3 and AAC are common examples.) The higher the compression, the lower the bit rate, and the more you can store on a given medium, BUT the more audio information is lost. This loss of audio information causes audible compression "artifacts." Artifacts are kind of hard to describe. To my ears it's a watery or burbling effect, or a sort of grainy noise that seems to surround certain kinds of sound. For very high bit rates and sophisticated compression algorithms, this effect is slight. In a car, it might even be inaudible at those high bit rates. For low rates, it's much more apt to be audible, though I've found that some people notice it more than others. To make things worse, audio that's been digitally compressed, decompressed, and then compressed and decompressed a second time (or more) sounds a LOT worse. The loss of quality doesn't just add. Data compression algorithms interact with each other, and not in a good way. So if you're listening to mp3 files (which are compressed) through bluetooth (which is also compressed*), you lose more quality than the sum of the two would suggest. I'm probably not explaining this very well, but the upshot is that bluetooth really does make your music sound worse than a good, clean wired connection will. So what does all this have to do with EVs? EVs are quieter than ICEVs, and without engine noise and vibration, they have a different noise profile. Thus it's worth putting more effort into getting good sound in an EV than in an ICEV. For that reason I recommend that you avoid using bluetooth and its secondary digital audio data compression in your EV. *Recent versions of BT claim that their audio compression is "lossless" or "CD quality." This is demonstrably untrue. Yes, it's less "lossy" than earlier BT versions, but it's still not true CD quality (uncompressed PCM). David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] What is a compliance car? : ... Volt/Prius ...
On 11 Jan 2017 at 18:23, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Since the Chevy Volt has the longest EV range of > every one of the 15 plug-in hybrids now on the market it diserves a very > definite distinctive nomenclature. > > All the other plug-in hybrids are basically hybrids with a slightly bigger > battery and on the order of only a single local errand for EV mileage. Although lots of folks here disagree with me, I've argued for years, I think with justification, that the term "hybrid" has been widely misused. Until Toyota introduced the Prius and Honda the Insight, "hybrid" was well understood by EV specialists and hobbyists. It was a vehicle with two or more separate motive energy sources. Usually they were and are liquid fuel and electricity, but human-electric hybrids also exist. By that definition, the Volt is a true hybrid. The other so-called "hybrids" you're talking about don't fit the original definition. The non-plug Toyota Prius isn't a true hybrid. All the energy that makes it go comes from that gasoline you pump into the tank. It's a gas car with an electric torque converter and an electric supercharger. I don't know what it should be called, but as far as I'm concerned, hybrid isn't the right word. However, the plug-in Prius IS a true hybrid, because it DOES use two separate energy sources. "Hybrid" is even further off the mark for Honda Insight and its ilk, which AFAIK are still gas cars with conventional transmissions and electric superchargers I recognize that language evolves to be stronger and more effective, but I think that applying "hybrid" to vehicles that aren't doesn't serve anyone. As for the term "Compliance Car," Roger nailed it. It's an EV produced solely to comply with minimum-EV-sales laws. It's all about the manufacturer's intent. Typically a Compliance Car will be sold only in states that have those laws, won't be advertised much, and won't be state of the art -- but those are symptoms, not the disease. IMO, Compliance Cars are a form of passive aggression. A forward thinking automaker sees EV mandates as an opportunity (or an excuse to the shareholders!) to design for the future. A backward one sees them as an odious chore to be dealt with as cheaply as possible, in the most customer- unfriendly way possible. If a Compliance Car can be designed (or forced) to fail in the market, so much the better, since that failure will support the manufacturer's pre- conceived anti-EV notions and arguments. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1231c physical disassembly (China and US Coal)
Folks, sorry to be a nag, but please try to stay on topic. No doubt China's power generation is an important topic, but unless you connect it with EVs, please discuss it in offlist (private) email. Thanks, David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170112
On 12 Jan 2017 at 3:09, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > Chevrolet Delivered 579 Bolt EVs In December 2016 The Bolt's first delivery was on 13 December. So if we extrapolate those sales to the entire month, that would be 997 cars. They're just flying out the doors, folks! To put this in perspective, in December, Tesla sold 9,725 total Model S and Model X, and Nissan sold 1899 Leaves. The Volt did quite well too, shifting 3691 copies. Of course part of the problem is that GM is offering the Bolt in only two states. You'd almost think they didn't really want to sell them, wouldn't you? Na, impossible. :-\ A little more perspective: in December, GM sold 2709 Corvettes in the US. That doesn't include sales in other countries, but I'd be surprised if they sold many of them elsewhere in the world. Does GM advertise the Corvette on television? (Serious question: I don't know, I never watch.) If not, where DO they advertise it? (Presumably where there's a high concentration of demographically-predictable potential Corvette buyers.) And where do you think GM should advertise the Bolt? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101
On 1 Jan 2017 at 12:26, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > And, [the Citicar] was the cheapest car in America! That may have been true for the very earliest ones, but the Citicar that Consumer Reports tested in 1975 cost them $2946. That included $90 for a heater (!) and $36 for a spare tire (!). MSRP for a basic 1975 Toyota Corolla 2-door was $2711, heater and spare tire standard. Even neglecting the C-car's optional heater and spare tire, there was just no comparison on basic utility, comfort, and safety. The Toyota was even quieter than the Citicar, except maybe when they were standing at a stoplight. You could argue that it's not entirely fair to compare the cars' prices. The Corolla was a mass produced car with most of its design costs amortized and/or shared with other cars in the Toyota range. The Citicar was hand- built in very small numbers. Unfortunately, potential buyers don't care about such details. They see only the prices they pay, and what they get for their money. > The problem is that it was such a tiny company that they couldn't > afford to put the quality into it. Great idea; poor implementation. The "EV Bobs" were great guys, and had a fair bit of practical experience, but they seem to have been out of touch with modern (1970s) vehicle design. Their cars didn't have the basic design principles of even 1940s cars. GM and Chrysler had introduced independent front suspension in 1934; the Citicar and all its descendants had a 1920s-style solid front axle with leaf springs. The earliest Citicars didn't even have shock absorbers! Sebring-Vanguard did fit seat belts, but they ignored most other standard safety factors such as a collapsing steering column (introduced on other cars in 1967), safe interior design, and side intrusion door reinforcement. The bumpers were 2x4s dunked in foam, for goodness sake! The brakes, aircraft disc or later Bendix drum, were barely adequate for the speeds the car could reach. The earliest cars didn't have a dual master cylinder, so a hydraulic leak anywhere would result in a complete loss of braking ability. For all their failings, the EV Bobs had a vision and a real dedication to it. If they could have sold more EVs, ramped up production, and stayed in business for a decade or so longer, I think that eventually economy of scale would have kicked in and made it possible for them to solve at least some of the problems. But they didn't get that kind of time. Fuel prices plummeted in the early 1980s, syphoning off what little demand existed for EVs in the mid to late 1970s. To their credit, Sebring-Vanguard, and later Commuter Vehicles Inc, did start to address some of the problems in the later Comuta-Cars and especially in the Comuta-van / Postal Van But there were just too many problems, and with those falling gasoline prices, they ran out of customers and money. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101
On 1 Jan 2017 at 14:54, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > The ABS plastic [used in C-cars] actually held up pretty well, > considering its age. The main problem was UV damage from the sun. > Painting it goes a long way towards protecting it. Jim Tervort, who took over C-car support for a while in the late 1980s and early 1990s, told me that the factory used catalyzed acrylic enamel. He claimed that it provided good UV protection, and that aftermarket paints might not protect as well. All that said, if you're in the market for a used C-car, it's probably best to look for one which has been garaged as much as possible. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
On 3 Jan 2017 at 7:57, Jim Walls via EV wrote: > This list is set up so that replies go to the originator rather than back to > the list. Well, not exactly. The "reply to list" flag is indeed set on the EVDL software. However, there are some email clients that still want to direct the reply to the original poster. Thus you're right that in some email systems, though not all, you may still have to hit the "reply to all" button. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
On 3 Jan 2017 at 15:29, Matthew Quitter via EV wrote: > Tried replying to a couple of conversations and it didn't work. Sorry about that. Like everything else connected to email these days, the EVDL has spam filters. And like all spam filters, sometimes they get a little over-enthusiastic and zap messages that aren't really spam. I know it happens, because I've had a few of my own messages bumped. :-\ If you have a problem like this, please forward the messages you tried to post. Send them to me (complete with headers if possible) at the address on this page: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt I'll try to figure out what might be sidelining your posts. Thanks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electrical Safety...
On 3 Jan 2017 at 12:01, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > Batteries can deliver enormous short-circuit currents. This is where I refer you to the story of how former EVDLer John "Plasma Boy" Wayland got his nickname (short version). http://evdl.org/pages/plasmaboy.html Please read it! It could save your life. John's an entertaining writer, but there's nothing funny about this tale. A good EV battery can easily deliver around 300kW for some minutes. That's about as much power as 6 to 12 typical home power systems! Some EV batteries can produce even more than that. The amount of raw power on tap is just stupefying. It demands deep respect. John's lucky he wasn't incinerated, along with his bystanders, his car, his garage, and his house. Please, read his story, and learn from his mistake. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..
On 3 Jan 2017 at 21:43, Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote: > Collin; I think it is ok to advertise as long it is usefull to people > on this forum, like me. Advertise? No. Announce? Maybe. The EVD is non-commercial. That means no advertising as such. However, discussing your products and/or services in a factual, non-promotional way can be OK when the discussion goes in that direction. Please read the guidelines about this on the EVDL help page (section 3 of the Conventions): http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Sorry they're so long! I've tried to cover things fairly thoroughly. I generally try to stick pretty close to these guidelines, and ask you to do the same. However, I may be more or less flexible than what you see there, depending on many factors, including the overall tone of a particular post or thread. If you're at all in doubt as to how you align with the guidelines, please contact me off-list to discuss what you want to mention before you post it. My private address is here: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt Thanks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..
On 3 Jan 2017 at 21:43, Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote: > I think it is ok to advertise as long it is usefull to people on this > forum ... Advertise? No. Announce? Maybe. The EVDL is non-commercial. That means no advertising as such. However, discussing your products and/or services in a factual, non-promotional way can be OK when the discussion goes in that direction. Please read the guidelines about this on the EVDL help page (section 3 of the Conventions): http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#conv Sorry they're so long! I've tried to cover things fairly thoroughly. I try to stick pretty close to these guidelines, and ask you to do the same. However, I may be more or less flexible than what you see there, depending on many factors, including the overall tone of a particular post or thread. If you're at all in doubt as to how you align with the guidelines, please contact me off-list to discuss what you want to mention before you post it. My private address is at the bottom of the above-linked page.: Thanks! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Forklift Battery Options?
Before condemning the battery you should check a few things. First make sure the charger is actually charging it -- in particular, that it's delivering its rated current. Then cycle the battery a few times (run it flat and recharge it). Many times you can get back a surprising amount of capacity in an old battery just by giving it some exercise. Batteris are like us -- if they don't use their muscles for a while, those muscles weaken and atrophy. To find out what you really have, run a capacity test. This will rule out excessive current draw from the lift itself. Using a dummy load of 100 amps or so (see previous EVDL discussions about this in the archive), and monitoring the battery's voltage, measure how long it takes for the battery to fall to 21 volts WHILE LOADED. From current and time, you can then calculate the battery's capacity in amp hours. Check the specific gravity of the electrolyte in each cell with a temperature compensated hydrometer. A flat cell will measure 1.120 SG or less, and a fully charged one 1.265 or greater. All the cells should be about the same SG. Especially if you find some cells low in SG, try a long equalizing charging cycle. To equalize, charge the battery until it seems full, then keep going at a current of 0.02C (rated amp hours expressed in amps / 50). There may be a setting for equalization on your charger. Or you might be able to use two cheap 12 volt "trickle" chargers (this is about all such chargers are good for, BTW). Monitor the on-charge voltage while equalizing. Stop charging when it stops rising, and especially if it begins to fall. A good 24v battery should be able to reach 30 volts or more. Worn ones might not get past 28 or 29 volts. Measure the voltage of each cell while they're still on charge. The lower a cell is in this test, the weaker it is. You can confirm the cell level diagnosis by testing SG again. Any cell that can't get past about 1.200 SG no matter how long you charge it is probably close to the end of its life. If you have some good cells and some weak ones, you might contact an industrial battery supplier (not an auto parts store) and ask whether they have any compatible used cells they might be willing to sell you to replace the weakest ones. Good luck, keep us posted. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Blew my Curtis 1231C Controller - repair procedures?
On 2 Jan 2017 at 11:43, Lee Hart via EV wrote: > The problem is that an EV controller leads a very hard life. Shock, > vibration, heat, cold, water, dirt, very high current surges, voltage spikes, > and time will eventually do it in. Curtis primarily makes golf car controllers, which don't have as tough a life as those for road EVs. That said, they seem a lot better protected than their distant ancestors, the old PMC DCC range of "shoebox" controllers from the late 1970s and early 1980s. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20170101
> The result is a vehicle that closely resembles the Isetta of old, just > a bit bigger and rounder ... 15-kilowatt electric motor ... The > Microlino tops out at 62 mph, goes 60 to 75 miles on a charge, and > weighs just 880 pounds ... It will cost somewhere between $9,000 and > $13,500 ... This is a pretty good start. They're in the same general league as the Renault Twizy, which has had a moderate if variable success in the EU. I bet this EV will have more visual appeal and nostalgia factor. It might even be more comfortable. The problem is the price. A Twizy costs way less -- around $7500 last time I looked, though that doesn't include the battery, which Renault wants to lease to you. As far as practicality goes, forget it. A Suzuki Celerio ICE costs UK£7k (~US$8600) and has WAY more utility than this little guy. Add another £1k or ~$1k, and you can have a Hyundai i10 or Nissan Micra. A price far enough below the cheapest ICEV can drop an EV like this into -- forgive me for putting it this way -- big-kid-toy territory. Make it cute, make it fun (meaning brisk acceleration and tight handling), and make it cheap. Youi'll sell it to the wealthy (and those who think they are) as a 3rd or 4th vehicle for weekend gadabouts. The the key is CHEAP. I could be wrong, but I don't think even $9k is going to cut it in that neighborhood. This is a great idea, but IMO they're going to have to try harder on the price. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Recent Model EV Conversion - CAN and accesories to work..
On 4 Jan 2017 at 9:14, Marco Gaxiola via EV wrote: > I'm sorry, I did not picked the right word/phrase. (maybe say, 'thank > you for refer/recommend your product'...) No problem, it's all OK! The word "advertising" can mean different things to different people. ;-) David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] A Bolt EV experience ...
On 23 Dec 2016 at 2:01, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > http://electric-vehicle-discussion-list.413529.n4.nabble.com/Bolt-EV-experience-td4685003.html Well written, Bruce. Thanks for posting this. > Question: would I buy a Bolt at this time. No, because I want to wait > and compare with what my $30k will get me when the Tesla-3 comes out. If you're in the US (speaking to the entire list here, not just Bruce) and plan to buy a new production EV, you might want to keep a close watch on what congress may do with the $7.5k tax credit in 2017. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Shorted FB1-4001A DC motor?
On 27 Dec 2016 at 16:41, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > I used a 18 ga lamp cord in place of the fuse and tried to spin the > motor in neutral. Try a larger wire. Remember that 1400+ amp starting surge. You might also try "pre-spinning" the motor to reduce the starting surge. I wouldn't give up on that motor so easily. I'm not a motor expert, and someone should correct me if I'm wrong, but from what I've seen, big EV motors seldom if ever fail dead shorted. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Level 1 charging battery
On 26 Dec 2016 at 12:41, Seth Rothenberg via EV wrote: > Does anyone know of a single source for both an "ebike pack" with > charger and inverter? Barring that, I am considering an ebike > battery/charger and an inverter Do I understand you correctly -- that you're looking for a supplemental battery for your EV that works by giving the EV a "transfusion" via its standard level 1 charging? If you're after an ebike battery I can recommend Ping batteries, which are offered in packages with chargers. I have 3 of them. The oldest 2 are now 5 years old, and still are within 5% of their rated capacity. They're not high power batteries, but can run 1C to perhaps 2C comfortably. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Actual current carrying ability of NEMA L6-30
On 24 Dec 2016 at 23:32, David Nelson via EV wrote: > What is the actual sustained current carrying ability of the NEMA > L6-30 plug/sockets? I may be proven wrong, but I don't think you're going to get a definitive answer to this question. The manufacturer and vendors will tell you it's 30 amps because for liability reasons they can't tell you anything else. I certainly wouldn't, and I don't even make or sell the stuff. You can of course run your own tests at higher currents to see how much heat builds up, but how can you know what long-term effect a particular amount of heat will have on the materials the recept and plug are made of? Besides, different plug and recept combinations have different amounts of resistance. That will change the amount of heat generated, so you'd have to run rather exhaustive tests. Also, as the recepts wear, contact tension falls and resistance increases; a new pair that stayed cool at 40 amps might not after 100 make/break cycles. The manufacturers have taken all these factors and more into account in rating their parts. NEMA 5-15s are allowed on home circuits protected at 20 amps IFF there is more than one such recept on the circuit (a duplex recept is considered 2 outlets). This implies that the reason is that the code makes this allowance because it assumes a significant chance (though not a certainty) that a full 20a circuit load will be distributed among multiple outlets. I've heard rumors for years that the 5-15 recept contacts are identical to 5- 20 contacts, but I have no way of confirming that. They might look the same, but be of different composition or have spring tension specification, or be manufactured to less critical tolerance, and thus might present different contact resistance, either when new or after some amount of use. Again, how can you be sure? The bottom line is that if you use electrical components beyond their specifications, you're taking a risk at some level. If you do this in a fixed installation, you're violating code. In most cities code carries the force of law. Violating it may also have an effect on your insurance coverage. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Spanish EV charging (was J1772 might not go to a low level ...)
On 25 Dec 2016 at 14:56, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > ... the 2011/2012 Leaf ... is specifically aimed at the European situation > where most plugs and circuits are rated and fused to 230V 16A which > means a max 3.7kW so a 3.3kW charger maxes out a standard wall plug in > Europe ... This reminds me of something I was reading recently that gave me pause. In Spain, domestic electricity is demand-rated. That is, the higher the possible household demand, the more you pay per kWh. Demand is determined by the conductors feeding your house and by your main breaker. The source I was reading said that to keep the rates low, many Spanish homes have a total capacity of just 3.3kW! (Compare that with the US, where most new homes now have 96kW service, and some huge ones have double that.) The usual increment for requesting increased capacity from the power authority is 1.1kW. You'd have to upgrade a 3.3kW home to at least 4.4kW and more likely 6.6kW to even charge your older Leaf at home, never mind a newer one with a faster charger. And then you'd be paying more for ALL your electricity, not just that used to charge your EV. Combine that with the fact that off-street parking is less common in European cities, and you have some obstacles to EV uptake, at least in Spain. I guess that means that paid-by-the-session commercial charging would be much more important there. Maybe one of our Spanish members has some thoughts on this. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] J1772 might not go to a low level but just trip breaker.
On 25 Dec 2016 at 19:42, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > I have been charging the 30kw Leaf for hours now and still not tripped the > breaker here in Modesto ... I take it this is 240v, so you have a 125 amp breaker? That's what you would need to deliver 30kw. I assume that's wired directly to the EVSE. Heck of a cable! But what EVSE can supply 125 amps? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] J1772 might not go to a low level but just trip breaker.
On 25 Dec 2016 at 13:03, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Even though the (cold-exposed) breaker might not trip, please remember the > purpose of the breaker is to protect the *wire* after the breaker from > overload. The breaker is also intended to protect the receptacle and connected equipment. That's why a 30a recept is protected at 30a. It'a also the reason that plugs and receptacles are matched by rating: you can't plug a 50a plug into a 30a receptacle and vice versa. For example, if you could connect an appliance or EVSE with a 30a rated plug and cord to a receptacle protected by a 50a breaker, the breaker wouldn't protect the connected plug and cord properly. They could get hot and melt, causing a fire, even if the wiring to the receptacle remained cool and save and the breaker didn't trip. (I hope that's clear, I don't think I described it all that well.) The code makes an exception to this plug/receptacle matching requirement for circuits <= 20a. I assume this is because of the overall lower power available in those circuits, but I don't write the code. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Testing Curtis controller on side of road?
12 volts might not be enough to energize the Curtis logic circuits properly. An incandescent light bulb (40-150 Watt) is your friend. First, connect it across the controller input terminals. If it lights at all, it should be just for a short time. (You are making sure the capacitors inside the controller are discharged.) Connect the bulb across the fuse holder and pull in the contactor. It should go bright for some seconds and then fade to black as the controller's capacitors charge. If it stays bright, the controller is most likely shorted (either through to the motor, or across its input). If that test passes, put the fuse in place. Apply normal input voltage but connect the bulb in place of the motor. It should brighten and dim with the throttle potentiometer position. If not, you have a problem in the controller. Others with real EE background may have further suggestions for you. Good luck! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Testing Curtis controller on side of road?
On 27 Dec 2016 at 13:06, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > Unfortunately, this probably means I have a motor short It measured 0.1 > ohms, which seems a bit too low for an FB1-4001A. Don't assume the worst yet! I've never actually measured the armature resistance of a series motor, but that doesn't sound out of line to me. Assuming a 144v system, I = E/R = 144 / 0.1 == 1440 amps, which is not an unreasonable starting current for a series motor. Put the trans in neutral, set the brake, and (just to be sure) jack up the driving end of the vehicle so it can't possibly take off. Bypass your controller and connect 6 or 12 volts directly to the motor (or rather through a fuse or breaker and contactor). See if it starts and runs OK. At that low a voltage, it's very unlikely to overspeed with no load. Also check your traction circuit connections. Especially if you have a high resistance (maybe corroded) connection to that fuse, or with the fuse itself os its clips, it could have heated up significantly while you were driving. When a fuse is already hot, a current surge such as you get with acceleration is more apt to blow it. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Shorted FB1-4001A DC motor?
On 27 Dec 2016 at 14:31, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > I really don't want to test by blowing another fuse if there is a > cheaper alternative I hear you there! That's why I recommend a circuit breaker instead of a fuse, or at least in addition to the (higher current rated) fuse. I'm a little hesitant to suggest this since there's some hazard from molten copper snot if it lets go, but you might try replacing the fuse with a small- gauge copper wire -- maybe #16 or so. That will pass enough current to get an unloaded motor turning (careful when in neutral, don't let it overspeed). However, if the current goes to infinity, it should (I hope) burn out pronto, before anything else awful happens. Keep a fire extinguisher handy if you try this ... David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: EV-newswire posts for 20161220
On 22 Dec 2016 at 1:36, via EV wrote: > I get quite a few errors on the nabble links posted by Bruce. I just > highlight the title and paste in Google and a good link comes up! Bruce's links work for me, but they go to the Nabble archive post, not to the original source. Once you get to Nabble, normally you'll find a link for the original source. I don't speak for Bruce, and he can certainly correct me if I'm wrong, but as I understand it, part of what he's doing is an effort to build a permanent (as permanent as the web can be) searchable archive of EV news against the day when the EV cycle again swings down. The web as usually used has a distressingly short memory. The last time the commercial EV world turned sour, ~15 years ago, large chunks of its history were lost, as most of the original sources vanished from the web. When that day comes again (and it may come soon in the US), Bruce's news archive will become an EV history of the 21st century's second decade. Assuming the web as we know it makes it through relatively unscathed, it will be a potential resource for future historians. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Sequence of Events contactors
On 22 Dec 2016 at 10:10, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > A software glitch in the THINK CITY made the mistake of leaving the 4 > kW heater possibly on, so that on the third step above, the 4kW is > trying to go through a 5W 47 ohm resistor and it blows up. This kills > the car, and all replacement b0oards are gone, most cannot be repaired > Seriously? Owners can't replace an open 47 ohm 5 watt resistor??? That's a standard part available from any electronics part jobber. I know recent cars are locked down with computer chips in many subsystems so the owner is forced to buy those subsystems from the dealer rather than from a boneyard -- but a RESISTOR??? What the heck is going on here? PS - 4kw strikes me as a pretty feeble heater. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Sequence of Events contactors (THINKS)
On 22 Dec 2016 at 12:33, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > a 4kw plasma engulfs a... board full of surface mount high density > electronics ...the board is completely inaccessible and the entire 700 > lb battery box has to be removed from the car from below to get at it. Ouch. :-( To prevent such a disaster, I wonder if you could fit a simple latching relay and contactor in series with the high power feed to the heater. That way, any time the car was shut down, the relay would drop out and not be allowed to make again until the car had been safely powered up. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] 4th-gen is the “smartest” 42ED EV yet r:160km ts:130kph,0-100kph:11.5s
On 22 Dec 2016 at 17:25, damon henry via EV wrote: > transmissions ... are not generally necessary on vehicles engineered > from the ground up as electric ... Absolutely. And the Smart was originally conceived in the mid-1990s as an EV. Satch's Nicholad Hayek proposed a tiny electric runabout with just enough space behind the seats for a case of beer (really). Diamler reportedly had a heck of a time cramming even that tiny 600cc ICE into it. As for the alleged CVT, obviously I don't know for sure, but that may be "just an expression." Solectria used to say that the Force's single speed transaxle was "automatic," because that way fleet buyers would understand that the driver didn't have to shift gears manually while under way. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] $52M/yr 'Quiet (Electrified) cars' alert-sound rules by 2019/09
On 6 Dec 2016 at 20:36, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > I also downloaded a copy of it, which I could post to the EVDL, but I'm > not sure where. Normally you'd post something like that on a publicly-open filesharing server and post a link. If you can't do that, you can email it to me as an attachment, and I'll post it at evdl.org. We have plenty of free disk space. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Nissan Leaf "Needs Batteries"
On 20 Mar 2017 at 20:51, Jay Summet via EV wrote: > "Nissan Leaf - Needs Batteries" I'm no expert, but at $2400 it ounds like a pretty decent deal, if you have the chops to rebuild or replace the battery yourself. If you have to pay a dealer to do it, e, I'm not so sure. This brings back memories of the 1980s, and the Citicar and Comuta-car ads I used to see with the same wording. The main difference, other than the fact that the Leaf is a much more comfortable and capable vehicle, is that most C- cars would do about 30 miles with NEW batteries. Usually the used "needs batteries" C-cars would barely move, if that. (The one I bought had a few dead-flat railroad NiCd cells in the battery boxes. It also had non- functioning brakes.) Then as now, "Electric car - needs batteries" often denotes one person who will probably never buy another EV, and another person who is about to buy his first. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chelsea Sexton on NPR talks about EV's
On 8 Mar 2017 at 6:50, paul dove via EV wrote: > To me it is quite understandable why automobile manufacturers do not want to > make electric vehicles. If I have a company making something I wouldn't want > to government to tell me I had to make something else. Of course! Nobody wants to be told what to do. But that's not the way life is; we don't live in our own little bubbles. What we ,do and ESPECIALLY what big corporations do, affects other people. When your product affects the public welfare and/or human health, it's going to be regulated. It has to be. That's government's job. I may be wrong, but AFAIK nobody has said to GM in so many words, "you have to make EVs." Now, maybe EVs are the only and/or best way to accomplish what the laws require of them, but that's not the same thing. If GM wants to develop wind-up cars or wind-powered cars or flywheel-storage cars or whatever cars, and they accomplish the same regulatory ends with these approaches, nothing's stopping them (except perhaps issues of practicality and/or marketability). > I think new companies need to start up making electric vehicles and > just let Detroit slowly die like Kodak. There I agree 100%. There's a reason that IBM, Remington Rand, and Burroughs weren't the ones who developed the first practical personal computers. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Chelsea Sexton on NPR talks about EV's
The first part of this is off topic, but I'll eventually bring it back to EVs, so hang on. Many folks here probably know about the part that IBM played in early PCs, but some may not realize that IBM was pretty late to the small computer party. The IBM PC didn't hit the market until the summer of 1981. Apple (1976), Commodore (1977), Radio Shack TRS-80 (1977), and Atari (1979) were all on the market with small computers well before IBM. Even these weren't the first. There were also many much smaller companies that built microcomputers in the mid- to late-1970s, while IBM was busy pushing mainframes. Probably the most famous is Altair (1974). Others I remember are Ohio Scientific, North Star, Cromemco, Morrow, Heathkit, and Compupro. The small companies were definitely the innovators, but other big companies got into micros well before IBM, including Olivetti, Siemens, and Sharp, with some modest success. The way these companies solved the problem of operating systems is interesting and maybe instructive for EVs. Some of them wrote their own, but in the 1970s, quite a few used CP/M from Digital Research. CP/M-86 (ported to the 8086) was also an option for the original IBM PC. However (IIRC), it cost $200 against $80 for PC-DOS, so guess which one won out. At the time, Microsoft was a small operation. IBM chose them to adapt QDOS to the PC, but IBM didn't buy exclusuve rights to the OS. Nor did they lock down their design. They actually published the BIOS source in the PC service manual. It probably would still have happened even if they tried to keep all this proprietary, but in any case, other companies (many overseas) developed work- alike hardware and BIOS code, in many cases with help from their governments. They (or their users) bought generic MS-DOS from Microsoft. The "clones" pretty much buried IBM, which eventually gave up the PC business. Consider: EVs are reportedly given relatively high priority in China right now. Assuming GM keeps building Volts and Bolts, will China do to GM what Taiwan did to IBM? Just a thought. The original IBM PC was a so-so machine, partly because it was rushed to market and partly because IBM's execs didn't really think it would go anywhere. Among other compromises, IBM used the cheap version of the Intel 8086, the 8088, with 16-bit internal architecture but an 8-bit external bus. But even with its weaknesses, the IBM PC caught on. Partly this was brand reputation. The saying in business used to be "Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM." But the major reason for its success was the spreadsheet Lotus 123, which was a big improvement on Visicalc. The "micro mantra" was "pick your software, then choose the hardware that runs it." Big-bucks execs who were annoyed with their data processing (DP) departments' slow response when they wanted information could have it at their desks. Lotus was the software they wanted, so the PC (and later its clones) was the hardware they bought. It gave them control over the information they needed. So the IBM PC (and later its clones) solved a problem and improved its owners' work lives. (And DP/IT has been clawing back that control ever since, but that's another issue.) In one way the Nissan Leaf, Mitsu Imiev, and maybe the Renault Zoe have parallels to the IBM PC. They're kind of "meh" as EVs go, but they "legitimize" the EV business, or at least try to. Where this parallel breaks down is that microcomputers and PCs solved a problem without having to compete against mainframes and minis. They found a different niche. OTOH, most EVs keep trying to compete against ICEVs head to head. And most of the problems EV solve don't directly and profoundly affect people who buy vehicles. EVs do have the potential to cost less than ICEVs, both to buy and to operate. But so far the automakers aren't trying very hard to make them cost less, and erasing their running cost advantages wouldn't take much, with legislators in the automakers' pockets. Thanks mostly to lobbying by billionaires with ties to petroleum, some US states are already making EV drivers pay extra taxes. (No good deed goes unpunished.) The other parallel you see a lot is Apple to Tesla. I think that one has more foundation. Teslas are fast, high tech cars. They don't exactly solve a vexing problem, but for a particular kind of driver/owner, they do have a distinct and palpable advantage over their ICEV counterparts. Execs happy with your desktop PCs, meet drivers with the EV grin. As it stands, though, if you take away the regulatory incentives that promote EVs over ICEVs as a public good, EVs' competitiveness will weaken even among Tesla buyers. For "family car" EVs, demand could fall off the cliff, pretty much leaving Tesla and the high performance market as the US "EV island." What could prevent or ameliorate that is if one or more of the mainstream
Re: [EVDL] 800mi Bolt trip ... (San Jose<>LA on ccs)
This author complains about a lot of niggling little issues with the car, but if you discard all the literary indignation, there's really only one usable fact in the article: There aren't yet as many places to charge an EV as there are ICEV filling stations. When you know this, doing an 800 mile trip in a 185 mile range (as predicted by the car's own guessometer) EV is kind of like setting out across the Nevada desert in an ICEV with 2 gallons of fuel. Actually, I take it back. There's one other fact here that's worth knowing. "After 103 miles, we showed only 70 miles of remaining range." This means that the Bolt's real-world range prediction based on her previous driving was accurate within 6%. That's pretty good for a guessometer. The author doesn't say it, since it doesn't fit with her relentless negativity, so I will: kudos to GM's (Daewoo's) Korean designers for that. The general public eat up stuff that bashes anything new and different. The vast majority of vehicle owners avoid real innovation -- including EVs -- and they love being told that that's the "right" choice. If you're an author looking for a nice fee, or a website looking for advertising page views, a crybaby whine-fest like this is just the ticket. That is all. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Tesla cell size
On 13 Apr 2017 at 22:04, Michael Ross via EV wrote: > A cylinder only has to be oriented for polarity, it > can have any radial orientation. We had a rather similar discussion here many years ago (20?) about Optima lead batteries, which used (and still use) cylindrical cells. This thread has named some of the advantages of cylindrical cells. Those aren't insignificant by any means. However, a cylinder isn't as efficient as a rectangle if your goal is to package the most active material per unit of available vehicle space. The exception to this would be a case where the form factor matches the container perfectly, such as filling the round frame tubes of an e-bike with cells. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?
This appears to be another case of an author or editor who decides in advance what outcome he (or the corporate sponsor) desires, and then tailors the data and analysis to reach that conclusion. The tl;dr: money talks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Electric vehicle subsidies: expensive and ineffective?
On 3 Aug 2017 at 16:27, Dan Baker via EV wrote: > From their site it's hard to tell where there funding comes from, they do list > their funding as 27% from businesses and 70% from "foundations". One of their > Directors bios shows he has direct ties to big oil. It's kind of negative to say it, but this formula has been working for over 40 years, and not just with EVs. To preserve their billions, the big money men invest millions in foundations and "think tanks." I guess they figure that 1000:1 is a pretty good return on their money. They are probably right. Many or most of these pseudo-educational institutions (many/most qualify as nonprofits and thus pay no taxes and can accept tax-deductible donations. They send smooth-talking people in $1000 suits with impressive sounding credentials to do soothing, "common sense" interviews with the news media. The media almost never question them, since the "experts" make the so-called journalists' jobs easy and their advertisers happy. The more recent enhancements to this scheme are psychographically targeted social media advertising and trolling. Facebook (among others) is only too happy to take their money, and help them learn what pushes your buttons. The world might be in flames around them, and if that were what their masters wished, these people would smile and earnestly declare that there's no need to worry, everything is fine. I don't know how you beat them at their game. The only method I know of that might combat this smooth, deliberate anti-EV propaganda is good old fashioned one-on-one in-person proselytizing in favor of EVs. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] "Fill 'er Up?'
On 12 Aug 2017 at 11:27, Mike Beem via EV wrote: > https://www.purdue.edu/newsroom/releases/2017/Q2/instantly-rechargeable-batter > y-could-change-the-future-of-electric-and-hybrid-automobiles.html I'm not an electrochemist, but this sounds to me more like a fuel cell than a battery. Sustemic efficiency (or rather the lack of it) is typically the elephant in the room with most fuel cells. "... would enable drivers to fill up their electric or hybrid vehicles with fluid electrolytes to re-energize spent battery fluids much like refueling their gas tanks." Ah. We can end our reliance on buying automotive fuel from the oil companies, and instead become reliant on buying fuel from a battery-slurry company. "The spent battery fluids or electrolyte could be collected and taken to a solar farm, wind turbine installation or hydroelectric plant for re- charging." It could. Or coal, natural gas, nuclear -- you know, whatever's cheapest. There's a lot of talk about "refueling" in the piece, but it appears that the real innovation here is eliminating the fuel cell membrane. What's not addressed is who's going to build the refueling facilities and where. It's tough enough now finding places to "gas up" an HFCV or even a NGV. This is not a trivial problem. Not to say any of this is impossible, but as with everything else, follow the money, and as far as I can tell, the big bucks are moving in other directions -- or, more accurately, concentrating even more where they already are. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Big, Honking Electric Snowblower: Feasible?
It's quite feasible, though the weight may be appreciable. You don't even have to convert if you don't want to. The GE Elec-trak lawn tractors built in the 1970s were sold with snow thrower attachments as an option, and many are still around. The snow thrower for the large-frame E12, E15, and E20 is 42" wide. There was a 36" thrower for the smaller E10 tractor, but I don't think many were built and sold, so you're not too apt to find one. ETs have their weaknesses, but somewhere between hundreds and thousands are still mowing, lifting, hauling, tilling, sweeping, bulldozing, and moving snow. They're pretty solid machines. ETs show up on Ebay from time to time, and members of the ET email discussion list (see below) sometimes offer machines for sale. You should be able to get an E15 (probably the most common type) in usable shape, possibly including a front mount mower deck but maybe needing batteries, for under $500. I've even seen a few rough ones given away. Expect to pay another hundred or two for a decent snow thrower. You might want to consider joining the Elec-Trak email discussion list. http://cosmos.phy.tufts.edu/mailman/listinfo/elec-trak David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] ? Is this really a Smart Fortwo ED EV that burnt to a crisp ?
A lot of people have shown an interest in discussing the origins of the fire here, but I haven't seen any posts yet addressing Bruce's question -- was this really a Smart? Bruce provided links that show a Smart chassis. The burnt-out skeleton in the photos resembles it. However, there are also some differences. Look at the shape of the front crossmember (what in an ICEV might be the radiator support) and the bumper support (?) below it, compared to the pictures of the actual Smart frame. I think I also see differences at the rear quarters. The rocker panels seem to be shaped differently, too. Anybody else remember the Flybo and the other Chinese EVs that resembled Smarts? They showed up about 10 years ago. Diamler tried to sue the makers, but I don't know how successful they were at stopping them. If they were shut down, it might have been mainly because they were fairly junky knockoffs. http://evalbum.com/type/FLYB I can't find any online pictures of the Flybo frame like the ones Bruce found of the Smart (thanks, Bruce). It does make you wonder, though. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Drive toward electric-car future picking up speed
On 15 Jul 2017 at 15:30, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Let's stop the name calling right here. I think the poster was disparaging the article's writer, not Peri. However, I have to agree with Cor that ad hominem attacks -- no matter where they're directed -- are more a reflection on the attacker than on the person being attacked. That said, it's a sad reality that the state of journalism has declined over the years. Too many editors assign stories to reporters who don't have adequate background in the subjects, and the reporters often don't take (or aren't given) enough time for sufficient background research. Then readers / viewers / listeners end up misinformed. Positive press for EVs is obviously a good thing, but the Seattle Times is a newspaper with a long and distinguished history. It's surprising and disheartening to see the errors in this story. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Pumping the amperes?
Maybe something like Ebay 122047896993 ? Claims "Ah Measuring range 0 ~ 2000KAH"! It's certainly cheap enough. Accuracy? Reliability? Who knows? Disclaimer: I know nothing about this gadget, just what I read in the Ebay listing. Also: you don't always get what you pay for, but you seldom get what you don't pay for. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Factory EV 2002 Toyota Rav4EV on the market
On 25 Apr 2017 at 16:49, fred ungewitter via EV wrote: > ... nickel metal hydride, "antique" technology to be sure, but quite a > development when it appeared on the market, prior to being squelched. Anyone who's used good quality NiMH cells in a flashlight or camera knows how stable and long-lived they are. (I have some that I've been cycling since 2006 with essentially no decline in capacity.) What's more, the Panasonic modules Toyota used for the RAV4-EV were uncommonly high quality batteries. They have a reputation for routinely lasting well over 100k miles in those EVs. NiMH doesn't have as high a specific energy as lithium, but it still makes a pretty good EV battery -- or would have, if not for Chevron/Cobasys large battery patent encumbering literally prohibiting the manufacure of modules large enough to work in road EVs. And here again we also see Panasonic's nose under the door, because Stan Ovshinsky's patent suit against Panasonic didn't help adoption either. Together these developments hobbled large NiMH batteries for EVs, and kept them from reaching any significant economy of scale. As I understand it (someone please correct me if this is wrong), most of the encumbering patents have finally expired. A couple of years ago (2015) it was all over the EV blogs that BASF was working on improving NiMH's specific energy. Their pie-in-the-sky claim was that they could raise it tenfold. That's frankly incredible (by which I mean "not believeable"). However, even a doiubling or tripling of SE would make NiMH competitive with lithium batteries, especially if they retained their well-known longevity and safety. Alas, I've heard nothing more about BASF's work since then; has anyone else? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Factory EV 2002 Toyota Rav4EV on the market
I remember an EVDL member from about 20 years ago who re-converted a US Electricar pickup after its inverter turned toes up. This was well before the USE owner community reverse-engineered the Dolphin drive. He switched over to a much more conventional -- and more easily serviced -- series DC motor and controller. I suppose you could do something similar with an aging RAV4-EV if it were otherwise a goner. In such a case I wonder if it would be worth adapting a drivetrain from a wrecked Leaf. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Curtis 1238-6501 State of Charge
I am not a lithium battery expert. But with any kind of battery, I would do a load test to identify the problem cells. Put 20-40 amps on the fully charged battery, and measure the voltage of each cell in turn. The stinkers will quickly reveal themselves. Be aware that you may find a REVERSE voltage on one or more cells. This is an especially bad sign. Remove the weak cells from the string and give them special treatment. Charge them individually and test their capacity (discharge at a nominal rate such as 20 amps or more until they reach their low voltage limit, recharge, test again, recharge). You can use an amp-hour meter to measure capacity, or just time how long they last and multiply decimal hours by average current in amps to get approximate amp hours. If you can get them to charge fully and show about the same amp hour capacity as the rest of the battery, charge them up, put them back in, use them, and see how it goes. I would replace any that test well under the capacity of the other cells in the battery. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Self discharge never sleeps (was: Curtis 1238-6501...)
On 9 Aug 2017 at 20:18, Jukka Järvinen via EV wrote: > This is why SOC windowing was developed. Could someone please explain what SOC windowing is and how it works? Thanks. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hacking a supercharger. Have a charge on Elon.
On 2 May 2017 at 13:02, Rush Dougherty via EV wrote: > I guess David doesn't have any credit cards ... cell phone ... use the > internet ... I don't get why Rush is being snarky here, but I'll give a simple, civil response: I have little enough privacy already, without choosing to give up more. I won't get into further detail, since we'd probably get off topic pretty quickly. Howe er, if Rush or anyone else is sincere and wants to discuss this issue constructively, you're welcome to email me offlist. My private address is at the bottom of the EVDL help page: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#supt David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hacking a supercharger. Have a charge on Elon.
On 2 May 2017 at 11:58, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > And, if Tesla suspects any foul play, they can instantly disable a > Tesla ... This, and the creepy constant monitoring, are the main reasons I will never buy a Tesla. NEVER. You don't ever really own your Tesla, you're just borrowing it from your dad Elon. It's a darn shame. The Tesla is a great accomplishment. I know that some folks are fine with the spying and control -- even welcome it. Others don't notice or care. Great, go for it. For me, nope nope nope nope nope no way. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Bill Ford kills: CEO out> after his raise, job layoffs, h2 debacle& sweating water from air
The articlie that I read said it was because Fields wasn't sufficiently gung- ho on SDVs (self-driving vehicles). It didn't say anything about EVs one way or the other. It had a pic of the new guy, Hackett. Apperances don't mean much, I guess -- but you'd never mistake him for Elon Musk, that's for sure. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Design News: Lithium-Ion Battery Inventor Ups Ante With Advanced Solid-State Rechargeable
On 25 May 2017 at 10:35, len moskowitz via EV wrote:
> Energy density is what gives batteries its lifecycle between charges,
> so a battery with a very high energy density will, for example, allow
> an electric car to drive further between charges.
Ignoring the twisted syntax in the sentence above ("what gives batteries
its"? Sheesh), both energy density and specific energy are important.
So is a third unit. What do you call the unit defining kWh per dollar or
per euro?
PS - Kudos to Goodenough. I hope that I'm able to still do things that
benefit society when I'm 94 years old. I also hope this battery scales and
can actually be affordably manufactured. Over the years I've seen entirely
too many "battery breakthroughs" announced that never got into production.
David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA
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Re: [EVDL] Design News: Lithium-Ion Battery Inventor Ups Ante With Advanced Solid-State Rechargeable
On 25 May 2017 at 23:11, Brandon Hines via EV wrote: > what would [be Goodenough's] motivation to make an outrageous or bogus > claim. It is not like he is shopping his invention to venture > capitalist. I doubt that he's doing anything like that. But all kinds of bad things can nuke a promising product between the lab and the marketplace. The development works in the lab model, but doesn't scale to a useful size. They can't find a way to produce it practically or affordably. It needs some kind of material that only comes from politically unstable parts of the world. A couple of prototypes blow up or burn, and the negative PR kills it (see: Ford Ecostar and the sodium sulfur battery*). Something else better or cheaper comes along before it's developed, and grabs the potential market. They're working with public funding, and some rich person sees a threat to his established market and lobbies the government to take the funding away (see: Koch brothers and solar energy). Or new politicians come along and take it away just because that's what they do (see: Ronald Reagan moves into the White House and immediately has the Carter PV panels ripped off its roof). The market changes and the invention becomes a white elephant, at least in the short term (see: cheap fuel and late 1970s - early 1980s EV and battery research). The developers team up with larger partners who argue over goals, push out the originators, bring in their own guys, and run it into the ground (see: Renaissance Cars Tropica / Zebra / Xebra). Or the inventor sells the rights to some large corporation which then sits on it, or sells it someone else who sits on it (see Ovonics). The list goes on and on and on. The system doesn't like change, and wires around it in any way it can. Even when the system works, practical application can take a long time. The first experimental lithium ion batteries were developed in 1980, IIRC. The first commercial lithium ion battery was released 11 years later. Lion didn't become all that common in (expensive) portable electronic gadgets until at least 1992 or 1993. FWIW, the first Lion-powered EV I know of was the Altra EV, a rather sizable wagon based on a Japanese-market Nissan. Nissan built 200 of them between 1997 and 2001. Some of our older California correspondents may remember the Altra. I wouldn't be surprised if Bruce Parmentier got to drive one. ;-) Altras used Sony lithium-cobalt and Hitachi lithium- manganese modules. The range was stated as "up to" 120 or 140 miles, with 70- 100 miles considered more realistic. The range numbers sound a lot loke the Leaf's, don't they? It seems as if 20 years haven't really changed much in that respect, they've mostly just brought the price down to affordable levels. *Ford developed the sodium-sulfur battery in 1965, but they didn't actually use it in an EV until 1991. That was the Ecostar van. Two of the pre- production samples caught fire while charging. That made a good excuse to abandon the project. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EV to Hybrid Trailer
Hi Eli, You've obviously given this some thought already and realize some of the technical problem you'd need to solve. Modern EVs -- modern cars of all kinds, actually -- are pretty much integrated computers-on-wheels. They don't take well to things happening that aren't in their programming, such as attempts to charge them through their charging inlets while they're still being driven. I'm not an engineer, but my guess is that you'd need to start with something like the old range-extending battery plug-in-Prius conversions. In most if not all of them, the extra battery was rigged to fool the car's computers into thinking the car was being fed the extra charge via regeneration. If you go that route, make sure you know what you're doing. Not to scare you but rather to caution you: we have a list member here who recently bought a junk Leaf for parts. It was a fire wreck. The former owner was trying to extend its range by paralleling extra battery modules onto the pack'a. Water got in through the holes he'd drilled in the battery tray and caused some kind of electrical failure. The car's interior erupted in flames. Do you want to drive continuously on fuel, or are you planning to stop every now and then to let the genset catch up? At your efficiency (238Wh/mi) you'll need a genset of at least 14.3kW to maintain 60mph. Your max of 6.16kW isn't going to cut it. One thing you may not have thought about is how dirty and inefficient your car will become when you use this scheme. Maybe it doesn't matter to you, although the facts that you own an EV and use the handle "conservation architect" suggest that it probably does. Efficiency first. The most efficient EV APU (Auxiliary Power Unit) I know of was the "Long Ranger" trailer Alan Cocconi built for his Honda Civic hatchback conversion EV about 2 decades ago. Cocconi is a genius engineer. He designed the inverter for the original GM Impact, which became the EV1. The original Tesla roadster was also heavily influenced by his T-Zero roadster (I think Tesla actually licensed his AC Propulsion drivetrain). Cocconi used a (Kawasaki?) motorcycle engine in his Long Ranger. I don't think I ever read any information about its emissions, but bikes have never been as tightly regulated as cars, and I strongly doubt that it was anywhere close to auto engines of the time. (More on that below.) It did keep up with the EV's energy use on the highway, though. Now this is about as fuel-efficient as you're going to get, and I recall reading that it got a real world 32mpg highway. For direct comparison, a similar Honda Civic VX or HF hatchback of about the same vintage got real world highway mpg in the 48-56 range. As for emissions, it's no contest. I ran the calculations on this back in 2007, so it's far from up to date, but I think my conclusions are still worth looking at. (If you want to see the full assumptions and calculations, let me know, and I'll post them, but they're kinda dull.) I based this on a fairly modern commercial grade genset from a reputable manufacturer that met EPA 2000s portable equipment emissions regulations (not dubious Chinese crap from Harbor Freight or Ebay), driving a highly efficient conversion EV of the time at highway speed. I assumed that the EV could sustain 60mph with a 10kW continuous input. That's quite a bit less than your Leaf, and amounts to about 165Wh/mi -- tough, but maybe possible for something light and efficient like a gen1 Solectria Force. I calculated only for the regulated pollutants NMHC, NOx, and CO, not CO2. The genset-powered EV would have emissions in grams per mile of: 2.4 g/mi NMHC + NOx 117 g/mi CO. PZEV / light duty SULEV-II EPA limits (applied to the 2004-2009 Toyota Prius, I don't know about current models): NMHC + NOx = 0.03 g/mi CO = 1.0 g/mi Compared to a 2004+ Toyota Prius), the genset-driven EV produces 7900% more NMHC + NOx (80 times as much) 11600% more CO (117 times as much) Can you say "gross polluter"? :-( In doing these calculations, I ignored the additional aero drag and weight of the genset trailer. Those would make the results even worse. So would your case, since at 238 Wh/mi your Leaf already uses 40% more energy than my prototype EV. There are also some practical considerations. For example, have you driven with a trailer before? Parked with one? Backed up with one? It's not much fun. Then there's the racket and vibration from the genset drifting forward every time you stop. They kind of spoil the EV experience, as does (IMO) knowing how much pollution you're spewing into the air. What you're proposing would be an interesting challenge and possibly a lot of fun if you're into engineering and serious problem-solving. If you're more into just driving something clean, I think you're much better off borrowing or renting an ICEV for the times you need to take longer trips.
Re: [EVDL] veemo
I like the idea of the vehicle itself, a human-electric hybrid. Its looks, meh. It kind of reminds me of a squashed Chevrolet Spark, not that looks really matter all that much to me. The concept looks interesting. It's their business model that I don't care for. It seems that they're saying "You're not allowed to own this, but pay us every month and we'll let you use it in your city on whatever terms we decide to dictate to you. Also, we can take it back if we decide you're not worthy, or we don't like the way you drive, or something." This "rental culture" deal where corporations own everything and you just pay to use it (as long as they let you) is something that I guess a lot of younger folks have grown up with. Presumably they're OK with it. I'm not. I'd rather have a used Twike. That, I can own. And get off my grass. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hacking a supercharger. Have a charge on Elon.
On 3 May 2017 at 10:28, paul dove via EV wrote: > All modern cars can be disabled. I read some years ago that GM had built this capability into Onstar, and would use it at police request. I haven't been able to determine whether other automakers that use vehicle telematics include the same trick, though. Maybe they do and they're just not owning up to it. Security with a system like this is a big concern to the vehicle owner and driver. I'm not so sure it's as big a concern as it should be with the automakers though, after reading reports of pirates being able to take partial control of various vehicles. Come to that, wasn't there something about a security flaw in the Nissan Leaf's system? Ah, here it is: https://transportevolved.com/2016/02/24/major-security-flaw-with- nissanconnect-ev-telematics-system-means-hackers-can-access-your-leaf- electric-car-with-just-its-vin/ (Ugh, what a URL.) https://v.gd/oDmbG9 I guess Nissan's PR folks say it's fixed now. In the case of a Ford with "sync" I think you could secure your vehicle just by turning off your mobile phone, or not pairing it with the car in the first place. Presumably, if you disable your telematics system, that way or by unplu gging the mobile antenna, you lose the ability to have the EV find a charger for you. You might have to actually break out your mobile phone and search, eh? Or do what conversion EV drivers have always done: plan ahead. > I see them do it in cops all the time. Are we talking about a television program here? How reliable is that? (That's NOT a rhetorical question. I don't know very much about television, and don't even own a set. However I've read that a fair amount of, if not most, "reality" televsion is staged.) David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVs and altitude?
On 4 May 2017 at 15:28, John Lussmyer via EV wrote: > But only if you have 100% efficient regen. Obviously you're not going to get 100% efficient regen, but you'd be surprised how close you can get under the right conditions in a well designed real world vehicle. I've posted about this in the past, but here it is again: http://www.evdl.org/pages/evergreen.html Axel Krause of Brusa drove his EV over the Swiss Alps in 1997. The graph on the page above is a little confusing; what it shows is the deviation of the car's amp-hour counter from what he usually got in similar driving on flat ground. You can see that by the end of the trip, the amp-hours logged were right back to what they'd normally be for a trip of that length taken on the flat. The gist of it is this: thanks to the drive system's regeneration, almost all the extra energy he used going up the mountain, he got back on the way down. (No doubt this wouldn't have worked as well if he'd started out the trip with a descent. With the battery already full, there'd be nowhere to store the kinetic energy.) On the average his outbound trip (Gams to Stabio) used 10.7kWh / 100km. That's a more-than-respectable 173 Wh/mi. It's also from the mains, not just from the battery, so it includes the charger efficiency. Not bad. His average speed was 66km/h, or about 41mph. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Hacking a supercharger. Have a charge on Elon.
On 2 May 2017 at 9:05, Collin Kidder via EV wrote: > Doing so is likely to be seen as theft (of electricity). Here's some totally uninformed speculation. Anyone who knows otherwise, please correct me. A Tesla is like an ankle bracelet that you drive, always connected to the net, reporting to Tesla on your movements and the car's state. Tesla no longer includes unlimited charging in the original price of the car, yes? So wouldn't you think that Tesla's charger must have some way to determine whether any given Tesla is allowed to use them for free? Thus I'd be very surprised if the chargers don't read the car's VIN, check with Tesla, and log the transaction, before they allow the charge to begin.. Since Tesla (presumably) always knows where every car is, it could also check to see where it had last seen that car ID, and whether that was consistent with the charging request. It could also check other data for consistency -- last known accumulated mileage, last known state of charge, and so on. So you probably couldn't just feed the charger some random VIN. Spoofing a particular known VIN or even choosing from a list of known VINs probably wouldn't work either. And as Collin pointed out, unless you were successfully spoofing a new car's VIN that didn't include the charging in the purchase price, you'd be stealing anyway. Even then, I suspect Tesla woudn't look very approvingly on what you were doing. It does seem like a shame and a waste to have all those chargers and not make them available to the entire EV community. Imagine what it'd be like today if Ford, Chevrolet, and Chrysler had done that -- each built filling stations that would work with only THEIR cars. Heck, maybe what are now the "big three" would be the bit players, and most of us would be driving Edisons, Galvanis, and Voltas that could plug in and charge anywhere! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Slow due to 96V pack?
On 14 Sep 2017 at 18:10, paul dove via EV wrote: > There is no voltage adjustment on input voltage in any motor controller I ever > used. EVERY controller I've ever used has had some kind of undervoltage limit, though in many cases it wasn't easily adjustable. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Slow due to 96V pack?
On 14 Sep 2017 at 17:19, Roger Stockton via EV wrote: > *IF* the sophisticated controller were replaced with a simple contactor > controller, then if the contactor controller allowed the entire 96V battery to > be connected directly to a stalled motor (~0 ohms), the voltage drop across > the battery internal resistance would ~approach~ 96V - 0V = 96V, and the peak > current into the motor would approach 96V / 0.08 ohms = 1200A. Quite so. The Comuta-Vans had 72 volts of 105-minute golf car batteries, a contactor controller, and awg 1/0 wiring. In the early 1980s, a DOE test of one recorded peak currents of over 1300 amps. The testers did not seem to consider that a good thing. There's a good reason that you tape up your wrenches when you work around golf car batteries. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Soldering to the J-1772 Pins
On 10 Oct 2017 at 15:49, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Trying to solder to the pins of an EVSE takes a hellova soldering iron. Could you crimp them with a hammer crimper, or maybe with one of those cheap Chinese hex crimpers from Harbor Fright? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: (Spy shots)> USPS's New Electric US Postal/Mail Truck
The USPS has flirted with EVs off and on since the 1970s. They've run pilots and prototypes. I remember an AMC-made Jeep body conversion in the 1970s. In the the early 1980s, the infamous ill-fated Commuter Vehicles postal vans went far wide of the USPS's requirements, essentially putting the final nails in CVI's coffin. Also in the early 80s were rather nice boxy prototype postal vehicles built by either AM General or Grumman (I forget which) and based on the VW Rabbit; at least some of these were fitted with an EV drivetrain. In the early 2000s the USPS had a small and IIRC rather short-lived affair with postal vehicles using Grumman LLV bodies on Ford Ranger EV pickup chassis (the current ICE LLV uses an old Chevrolet S10 chassis design, and gets an excruciating 9mpg). The Ford-based EV LLVs I think were deployed only in California. Maybe Bruce remembers more about these, and will correct any errors I've made. None of these trial programs has ever led to serious EV adoption by the USPS. They seemed to be more window dressing than anything, and I also heard rumors of outright sabotage by their mechanics (this has happened with many corporate EV fleet tests in the past). The USPS wants a $25-35k price tag for this new delivery vehicle. I can't imagine the one described here coming in anywhere near that, especially since it isn't a pure BEV, but rather a true series hybrid, with a small onboard range-extension genset. I may be making too many assumptions, but despite what they say, I don't really think the USPS's top brass want EVs. So I have some doubts that we'll end up with a BEV or even a true hybrid delivering our mail. But we can hope. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Flying e-Hovercycle, e-motorcycle, auton patrol nEV, e-Robocop @Gitex in UAE
On 15 Oct 2017 at 14:24, Rod Hower via EV wrote: > Hovercycle? Looks more like a human food processor. Who comes up with > this stuff? The other question is, who would want to USE it? It looks like an alien UFO from a low budget horror film. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Flying e-Hovercycle, e-motorcycle, auton patrol nEV, e-Robocop @Gitex in UAE
On 15 Oct 2017 at 10:24, Peter C. Thompson via EV wrote: > I'm much more worried about those open propellers - there is zero > shielding if one breaks or someone gets too near the blades. Ugh. I suspect that's a feature, not a bug. I hope I'm wrong. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] I wonder where the Clunns are
I've seen 300-350 battery amps routinely from good 6v golf car batteries. There's a reason that 1980s converters used 400a controllers in their 96- 120v golf car battery conversions. If your batteries have been on a "maintainer" for 2 years, there's a good chance that they now have significant positive grid corrosion from overcharging. That will cause increased internal resistance and thus lower peak power. Unless you're using them in a standby power system, and maybe not even then, batteries in storage are better off being cycled periodically (say every 1-3 months), not left on float chargers to rot. The higher their specific energy (meaning higher SG electrolyte), the more they suffer from grid corrosion. PS - I wouldn't call most cars or pickups with 16 golf car batteries "lead sleds." To deserve that label, the EV should have something near or over 50% of its weight in batteries. One infamous lead sled example was Robert Aronson's Mars IIs. They were tiny, flyweight Renault R10s converted with 20 (!) batteries. Some of their body seams literally opened up from the battery weight after 8-10 years. Bob Rice (RIP), who I'm pretty sure helped build the Mars II cars, described them as "elepants on roller skates." David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Two EV's to Donate
On 10 Sep 2017 at 22:16, Lawrence Rhodes via EV wrote: > They are old technology which has no place in the brush less motor > world of today. Yes, but they have an upside: You can actually work on them yourself, without having to fight some automaker's proprietary security stuff. If the motor or controller craps out, you can replace it (or them) with whatever new unit(s) you want. Same with the DC:DC, brake vacuum pump, and so on. Same with the battery. You can upgrade or downgrade any component at will. You can get parts from any source, not just the dealer. You won't have the car rejecting some junkyard or generic part you put in because it isn't "registered" with the body computer, or whatever. There seems to be a large and growing "hacking" (in a good way) community devoted to some production EVs, but even those are still much more locked down and opaque than any conversion. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] K BC20 96 volt charger replacement?
On 28 Sep 2017 at 16:35, brucedp5 via EV wrote: > If you have to replace your pack, I suggest: > http://www.sears.com/automotive-batteries-marine-batteries/b-1100201 > > select the appropriate size you currently have, either group 31, 27, > or 24. I have had good cycle life with these ... Careful there! Unless things have changed, Sears and other mass retailers buy their batteries from different suppliers at different times. It probably depends on who bids lowest. So, you might get batteries similar to Bruce's. Or, you might get batteries like the Sears Diehards that went into the earliest Solectria Forces. Many of those failed in less than a year. For flooded marine batteries, I would go with Trojan or US Battery brand instead. At least you'll know who made them, and those two companies have a long history of making good EV batteries. That said, the longest-lived 12v marine batteries I know of are East Penn Deka Dominator gel batteries. I have them in an Elec-Trak tractor and a New Idea riding mower. They're getting close to 20 years old and are just now finally starting to lose capacity and fail. Solectria Force and E-10 road EVs worked them much harder than my tractors, and routinely got over 5 years of life. However, they come with some caveats. 1. They're not high power batteries. Their voltage sags rather alarmingly at high currents. You'll need to keep a light right foot and live with modest acceleration (many would say "slow"). Turning down the controller's current limit would not be a bad idea. 2. They have less capacity than similar flooded marine batteries, so give less range. This is part of the secret to their long life -- you can't overdischarge them because they're acid-starved. The electrolyte turns to water before the girds can be damaged. 3. They need a charger which won't push them over 14.3 volts per battery. I wouldn't recommend using your BC-20. Bruce and Roger have discussed this in more detail. 4. They're not cheap. I didn't notice that Roger mentioned that he is (or was? I don't know his current status) involved with Delta-Q. That's why he can write with authority about their chargers. He knows his stuff! FYI, in case it matters, AFAIK Delta-Q chargers are still designed in Canada and manufactured in China. I somewhat reluctantly agree with Roger's recommendations about modular charging (one charger per battery). Intuitively, it seems like a great idea. But like many others who've tried it, I've used it, and have had an individual charger fail. Fortunately in my case, the pack was only 36v, so I quickly caught the one incompletely-charged battery going flat. The larger the pack, the less chance you have of noticing an undercharged battery before it's too late and that battery becomes what longtime EVDL contributor Bob Rice (RIP) used to call a "Trojan Teakettle." Some other folks here on the EVDL will no doubt tell you that "lead is dead" and that you should convert your EV to lithium. They have interesting arguments. I won't either agree or disagree. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Comuta-car rear axle available
I have a Comuta-car rear axle available. It came out of a 1980 C-car. I think I remember it has less than 6000 miles on it. I'll give it to anyone who is willing to come pick it up. It's located south of Akron, Ohio. I'm pretty sure it's the 6.38 ratio "torque" axle. It might be useful for someone who has the 5.19 "speed" axle, but lives in a hilly region. NOTES: IIRC, it includes a motor endbell with a possibly degraded seal, but it does NOT include the brakes or motor. Also, the half shafts have been out for many years and are rusty, so I don't know how useful they're likely to be. The 5.17 axle half shafts might work, but I don't know for sure. Or maybe you could clean these rusty ones up and sleeve them. I offer this absolutely as-is, with no warranty of any kind whatsoever. I can send pictures, if it helps. Please contact me offlist, following the instructions in my signature. Again: the axle is free as long as you're willing to come fetch it. If I get multiple requests (not likely), the first email I receive asking for it gets it. I also have a speedometer, a speedometer drive (motor adapter), and some other sundry small parts for Comuta-cars . I'll be listing these soon on Ebay. Please contact me if that interests you. This is the only notice I'll post of this. The axle is too heavy and too much hassle to ship, so I won't put it on Ebay. If no one is interested, it goes to recycling. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] EVLN: Her 2day Atlanta-GA to Asheville-NC Bolt EV Experience> (waiting on L2= bummer)
On 27 Sep 2017 at 13:37, Robert Bruninga via EV wrote: > Chevy shot themselves in the foot! See also: GM EV1. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Solar vehicles..just do the math.
Maybe you can do it as a hobbyist project. I don't see it as a viable mass produced commercial product for a long time yet, if ever. It would have to be competitive with current vehicles at initial dealer-lot price, because that's all most buyers see. Also, it can't be too odd-looking. Anything based on the Stella Lux flunks that one right off. A scant few buyers will/can pay more up front for low running costs, and a few of THEM might accept a weird looking vehicle. By then you're getting down to a microscopic potential customer base. You're not going to find venture capitalists interested in that kind of risk, and unfortunately we're currently experiencing a severe shortage of Elon Musks. So if you want one, better get to work. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Read EVAngel's EV News at http://evdl.org/evln/ Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] Blocked mail -- OT list business
Periodically, one or another of the big email services will decide to block the EVDL's mail. In the past we've had problems with the Microsoft mail services, AT's various permutations, AOL, and sometimes Yahoo. Lately I've been seeing a small number of AOL and Verizon addresses bouncing mail. (Verizon now owns AOL, so I guess that figures.) They're trying to fight spam. That's a laudable goal. But we (and others) are the "collateral damage" in the spam wars. Typically, people whose mail delivery is blocked don't gripe. I usually find out about a block when I see lots of people getting their mail delivery suspended. Maybe that means they don't miss the EVDL enough to inquire about it. :-\ At any rate, I do what I can when I find out that someone is blocking us. Sometimes I get the block lifted. Often I don't. Usually the problem fixes itself eventually, though it may take days or weeks. If you realize one day that you haven't gotten anything from the EVDL for a while, and you have email through your ISP, you might try contacting their support crew and ask to have ev@lists.evdl.org whitelisted. If you're on one of the big webmail services, you may be able to whitelist the address yourself. If that doesn't work, you can either wait it out, or change to a more EVDL-friendly email service. I don't recall that Gmail has ever blocked the EVDL, and we have a lot of subscribers that use it. Another service I recommend is Zoho. By the way, if you're missing mail from the EVDL, it's pretty likely you're missing other mail too, so you might want to give this some real consideration. That is all. Sorry for the interruption, and thanks for your attention. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Rebuilding infrastructure (smartly) EVDL
I agree that it might be better for Puerto Rico to not spend too much trying to restore their poorly maintained, fragile grid, and go straight to investing in distributed generation. For decades PREPA (the state-owned PR electric utility) resisted using anything but fuel oil and a little coal. They started switching a few plants to NG less than a decade ago (2010?). Finally in the last few years they've brought some wind and PV online too. They have new 4 PV farms that just started producing about a year ago. I visited western and northwestern PR for 2 weeks in August, just before Irma hit. In that time I saw exactly zero, zip, zilch EVs anywhere. I saw no Leaves, no Volts, no Bolts, no Teslas -- none. I'm sure that it doesn't help that PR's average cost per kWh is 20 cents. Some people reportedly pay close to 30 cents per kWh. I asked a few people I met if they had considered PV. Some had, mostly as backup power. FWIW, the little hotel we stayed at did a fair bit of its outdoor lighting with small solar powered garden lights, which were impressively capable. One of the people I spoke with told me that PREPA actually wanted to charge them a monthly fee to have an OFF-GRID system, which makes no sense to me. I haven't been able to corroborate that. In any case, PR could definitely use a PV / EV boost. However, I suspect that this level of storm is the "new normal" for the island. They can probably expect to keep getting category 3-4-5 hurricanes. Do PV mounts exist that can withstand 160mph+ hurricane winds? How do the panels themselves handle having large, heavy things thrown at them by those same winds? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Efficacy of regeneration to charge battery
On 23 Oct 2017 at 15:19, EVDL Administrator via EV wrote: > He drove it over the Apls, Make that ALPS. Sorry. (Brusa is a Swiss company.) David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Efficacy of regeneration to charge battery
On 22 Oct 2017 at 21:02, davinder via EV wrote: > I am puzzling over how regeneration in ev charges the main battery. > Plug in charging takes 8-10 hour charging to top up the battery - so > when the vehicle is rolling down hill oe deaccelerating the 'charge > energy' is avalable for seconds or minutes. Regenerative braking doesn't fully charge the EV's battery. It would be great if it could -- drive for free! -- but it can't. You'll never recover 100% of the energy you used to put the vehicle in motion. That's physics for you. IIRC when you add regenerative braking, the typical increase in range (and hence energy recovery) is around 20%. I've read that in hilly regions you can get to 35%. To see this taken to an extreme, look here: http://www.evdl.org/pages/evergreen.html Over 20 years ago, Axel Krause of Brusa designed a light EV with efficient components and aggressive use of regen. He drove it over the Apls, and thanks to the regen, got essentially the same range he would have had if he'd driven on flat ground! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] tabloid.uk scaremongering> Garbo sez EV charging w/ extension in rain is really dangerous
> He warned the wet cable could have caused a fire or given someone a shock Start a fire? In the pouring rain? As for the shock, three letters: RCD. Or, if you're here in the States, GFI. Remember, unlike stupidity, ignorance can be cured. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Need Help with DMOC-224 and AC-24
Hi Mike. As you probably know while Solectria still sort of exists as a utility scale PV hardware company, Solectria-the-EV-manufacturer is long gone. Their engineers who would have your answer are no doubt now scattered to the winds. If you haven't already, you might try posting your question on the Solectria Yahoo Group. At least one person there has hacked Force controllers with some success. That would be mostly the Brusa AMC range (largely AMC325). However, I think Solectria's UMOC and possibly DMOC range controllers were used in Forces toward the end of production, so there's a slight chance that someone might have done some reverse engeineering. Good luck! Let us know how it works out. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (OT, but somewhat EV related)
On 29 Nov 2017 at 15:07, Peri Hartman via EV wrote: > if you choose a heat pump, make sure it will generate the BTUs you > need at your coldest temperature or supplement it with some resistance > heating. Every home-HVAC heat pump I've ever seen has had supplemental and/or "emergency" heat. They all had resistive electric supplemental heat. I've read more recently about HVAC systems that use fuel gas heat as the supplement. I'd assume (and we all know what that is!) that all production EV heat pumps would also include resistive heating. Very few people will tolerate Yugo- class heating in their vehicles. (The infamous Yugo GV ICEV came with a pitiful heater. Owners who complained were told to keep the blower on LOW position so the air coming out of the vents would feel a little warmer.) IMO fitting a heat pump to a conversion EV is going to be a pretty significant challenge. That holds whether you're trying to make a HP from an existing aircon that came with the ICEV you're converting, or trying to convince a HP system from a production EV that it should work in a vehicle with none of the Canbus signals it expects. I would have no idea where to start. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (never buy another AC unit)
On 29 Nov 2017 at 18:14, ROBERT via EV wrote: > A heat pump outputs a register temperature of approximately 90 F. This > low a temperature blowing across your skin is not comfortable to a lot > a people. I think this is less true of recent heat pumps. I'd like to hear from someone who owns an EV with a heat pump -- how warm does the air from the vents feel in the winter? I think that many or most older heat pumps did have this annoyance. It's not an EV, but I knew someone who had a late-1990s GSHP (Waterfurnace brand) at home. The heating air from the vents always felt cool to me, meaning that it was below body temperature. Ninety deg F would be quite believeable. That's definitely not the case with my Mitsubishi mini-split from 2013. Although I haven't measured its outlet temperature in heating mode, most of the heating seasons it feels quite warm, almost hot. So it has to be well above body temperature. As the outdoor temperature falls, its outlet temperature declines too. However, it stays noticeably above body temperature down to an outdoor temperature of around -15 deg C. Thus I see no reason that an EV heat pump would have to produce air that feels cool under most conditions. For the times that it did, I'd expect it to have auxiliary resistive heat. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Heat pump vs resistive Heater (with radiators)
I hate to rain on folks' parades (even though it's raining today where I am), but this thread has almost nothing to do with EVs now. I tried to bring it back on topic, but to no avail. Maybe you could take it to private email now? Thanks, David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
[EVDL] DC controller common terminal
This question refers to a non-road EV, but I think it's applicable to road EVs too. I recently bought an Alltrax controller for my Elec-trac tractor. Like most (all?) DC controllers, it has 3 high power terminals. In this case they're B-, M-, and B+M+ (actually marked just B+ but described as the B+M+ terminal). The printed manual with it contains the following intriguing warning. It's printed in boldface type and underlined text (in parentheses, quotated, capital letters ... no, wait, that's something else). "Connect the motor leads as shown, making sure that you connect the B+ power lead from the contactor and the A1 motor lead AT the B+ terminal of the controller. This is important for proper controller operation." I read this as meaning that I should NOT, say, run a single cable from the contactor "downstream" side to the controller B+M+ terminal, and then connect the motor A1 lead to the contactor at that "downstream" terminal. Instead, the motor A1 lead should be extended to the controller B+M+ terminal, so that there are 2 lugs on that controller terminal. View following with a monospaced font such as Courier: RIGHT: |- || | Motor B- |M- B+M+| |-() -() ()-- - | --- | - | --- | |___| BatteryController Motor WRONG: |- || | Motor B- |M- B+M+| |-() -() () | - | | --- | | - | | --- | | |___|__| BatteryController Motor I've previously connected DC controllers the "wrong" way -- that is, connecting the motor lead to the contactor when it made for a shorter motor lead. It seemed to work fine. I guess my ignorance is showing here. Can someone explain why connecting the motor directly to the common controller terminal, not some other terminal feeding it, would be "important for proper controller operation"? David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] DC controller common terminal
Cor, Paul, thanks for the replies! I forgot about the freeewheeling diode(s). So I'll connect it the way the manual says. Still ... I recall some discussion years ago about fixed frequency 15kHz+ Curtis controllers having trouble with current limiting on large, low inductance motors. It caused the combination to have jerky starts, or worse. The way Lee Hart explained it was that the low resistance meant that the current didn't have time to decay enough when the chopping transistors were off (because it was a very short time), so the current just kept rising insead of being properly limited. If that were the crucial factor here, I would think that extra resistance in the motor loop would HELP. But obviously not, because we're always advised to keep the motor leads as short as possible. I hate to sound dense (even though I am), but while I can understand that connecting the motor lead at the contactor (or other point ahead of the controller common terminal) could change the way the controller "sees" the motor, I still don't fully understand what specific problems that might cause. Maybe the earlier discussion about motor loop impedance / resistance isn't relevant here? Thanks again! David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:55, Cor van de Water via EV wrote: > Anybody parked in a "green light" spot is suceptible to ticketing and > towing. I don't think that insisting people take time out from work to move their cars when charged, subject to their cars being ticketed or towed, is the way to get more of them into EVs. >From an employer's perspective, such interruptions don't help productivity. What if you're in a critical meeting when the "time's up" message arrives? I'd rather see employers install enough EVSEs to support all their EV drivers, but that's probably unrealistic. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
Re: [EVDL] Combating ICED EV parking spaces
On 13 Dec 2017 at 13:08, Lawrence Harris via EV wrote: > I would love to see a big light on the top of the charge head that goes green > while charging, amber when the charger ramps down to the end of charge and red > when done. Outstanding idea, but I'd recomment the exact opposite of the colors -- red for bulk charging, amber for absorption (last 20%), and green for charged. That's because almost every other charger used on personal gadgets (phones, cordless drills, and so on) uses those colors or something similar. It's read for charging, green for done, and sometimes you get yellow or flashing green during the absorption phase. I don't think I've ever seen any other charger that was lit up red when it was finished, except for a couple that never changed color. David Roden - Akron, Ohio, USA EVDL Administrator = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = EVDL Information: http://www.evdl.org/help/ = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = Note: mail sent to "evpost" and "etpost" addresses will not reach me. To send a private message, please obtain my email address from the webpage http://www.evdl.org/help/ . = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = ___ UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub http://lists.evdl.org/listinfo.cgi/ev-evdl.org Please discuss EV drag racing at NEDRA (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NEDRA)
