Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-18 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/17/2012 2:37 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 14:23, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 4:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 20:09, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, I understand the UDA, as I have read every one of Bruno's English papers and participated

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 22:26, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 2:24 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 13:51, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 16:57, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 4:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 15

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-18 Thread Bruno Marchal
Dear Stephen, On 18 Feb 2012, at 20:09, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 2:37 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 14:23, Stephen P. King wrote: I agree with this but I would like to pull back a bit from the infinite limit without going to the ultrafinitist idea. What we

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-18 Thread meekerdb
On 2/18/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Think about it, what would be the consequence of allowing A ^ ~A to occur in sharable 1p? If we start out with the assumption that all logics exist as possible and then consider which logics allow for sharable 1p, then only the logics that

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2012, at 18:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2012, at 20:09, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, I understand the UDA, as I have read every one of Bruno's English papers and participated in these discussions, at least. You do not need to keep repeating the same lines. ;-) The point is that the doctor assumption already

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2012, at 20:26, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 10:16 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes that all of the

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/17/2012 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 16:57, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 4:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 15 Feb 2012, at 08:07, Stephen P. King wrote: By the way, Darwin's theory revolves around the notion of evolution, that simpler objects can

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/17/2012 4:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 20:09, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, I understand the UDA, as I have read every one of Bruno's English papers and participated in these discussions, at least. You do not need to keep repeating the same lines. ;-) The

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 16 Feb 2012, at 23:37, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 00:10, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 3:02 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 22:37, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 00:02, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 22:37, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread meekerdb
On 2/17/2012 1:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You forget that Quantum reality is Turing emulable. A quantum computer can't compute a function that a TM can't. But when it comes to emulating reality, it seems there is a difference because quantum reality may be arbitrarily entangled (which is

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread meekerdb
On 2/17/2012 8:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Note that Bruno answers the concern that interaction/entanglement with the environment by saying that the correct level of substitution may include arbitrarily large parts of the environment. I think this is problematic because the substitution (and

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread meekerdb
On 2/17/2012 9:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This does not follow from what you say above. On the contrary, if by chance or reason, we build intelligent machine, we will have new opportunities to study consciousness and its role in mind and matter. I don't think it would ever be nice that

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 13:51, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 16:57, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 4:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 15 Feb 2012, at 08:07, Stephen P. King wrote: By the way, Darwin's theory revolves around

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 14:23, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 4:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 20:09, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, I understand the UDA, as I have read every one of Bruno's English papers and participated in these discussions, at least. You do

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 19:13, meekerdb wrote: On 2/17/2012 1:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You forget that Quantum reality is Turing emulable. A quantum computer can't compute a function that a TM can't. But when it comes to emulating reality, it seems there is a difference because quantum

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 17 Feb 2012, at 19:51, meekerdb wrote: On 2/17/2012 9:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This does not follow from what you say above. On the contrary, if by chance or reason, we build intelligent machine, we will have new opportunities to study consciousness and its role in mind and matter.

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/17/2012 2:24 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 13:51, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/17/2012 4:19 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Feb 2012, at 16:57, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 4:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 15 Feb 2012, at 08:07, Stephen P. King wrote: By

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread meekerdb
On 2/17/2012 12:07 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 19:13, meekerdb wrote: On 2/17/2012 1:48 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: You forget that Quantum reality is Turing emulable. A quantum computer can't compute a function that a TM can't. But when it comes to emulating reality, it

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-17 Thread meekerdb
On 2/17/2012 12:25 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 17 Feb 2012, at 19:51, meekerdb wrote: On 2/17/2012 9:09 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: This does not follow from what you say above. On the contrary, if by chance or reason, we build intelligent machine, we will have new opportunities to study

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of computational errors such as schizophrenia, dismorphia, etc. We intentionally lie... The list of computationally erroneous behavior of the brain is almost endless. How

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of computational errors such as schizophrenia, dismorphia, etc. We intentionally lie... The list of computationally erroneous behavior of

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of computational errors such as schizophrenia, dismorphia, etc. We intentionally lie... The

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of computational errors such as schizophrenia, dismorphia,

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans suffer all kinds of computational

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 1:16 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that humans

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 9:58 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes that all of the properties of objects are inherent in the objects themselves and have no relation or dependence on anything else. This is is wrong. We know from our study

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/2/16 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net On 2/16/2012 1:16 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK]

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 10:16 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How then do we explain the fact that

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first established that a Turing Machine is capable of what we are assuming it do be able

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 11:15 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first established that a Turing Machine is capable of what we are assuming it

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/2/16 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 2/16/2012 11:15 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first established that a Turing Machine is

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 11:38 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/2/16 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net mailto:meeke...@verizon.net On 2/16/2012 11:15 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 19:09, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:16 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting.

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 19:26, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 10:16 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 17:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:54 AM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 15:59, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:57 AM, acw wrote: On 2/15/2012 07:07, Stephen P. King wrote: [SPK] Interesting. How

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 2:13 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 9:58 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes that all of the properties of objects are inherent in the objects themselves and have no relation or dependence on anything else.

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first established that a Turing Machine is

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 2:34 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:15 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first established that a Turing

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/2/16 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 2/16/2012 11:38 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2012/2/16 meekerdb meeke...@verizon.net On 2/16/2012 11:15 AM, Quentin Anciaux wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we first

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread acw
On 2/16/2012 22:37, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 3:02 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 22:37, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 1:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 12:36 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:13 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 9:58 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes that all of the properties of objects are inherent in the objects themselves and have

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 12:40 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It would be helpful if we

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 4:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can be emulated by a Universal Turing Machine. It

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 4:49 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 4:00 PM, acw wrote: On 2/16/2012 20:40, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 11:09 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: All of this substitution stuff is predicated upon the possibility that the brain can

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 6:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 12:36 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:13 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 9:58 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes that all of the properties of objects are

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 5:45 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 6:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 12:36 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 2:13 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 9:58 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: Hi ACW, There is a problem with this way of thinking in that it assumes

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 7:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: But QM is consistent with some things (almost all big things) being almost exactly classical. There is no reason to think our brains depend on non-classical processes to perform computations (metabolism - yes, computation - no). Certainly it would be a

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/16/2012 8:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: So Kraus' argument does itself show at least one aspect of how classical teleportation is problematic. I rest my case. But his teleportation, which is based on transmitting the position of every atom in a human body is far more than required for Bruno's

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread meekerdb
On 2/16/2012 7:55 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 7:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: But QM is consistent with some things (almost all big things) being almost exactly classical. There is no reason to think our brains depend on non-classical processes to perform computations (metabolism - yes,

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-16 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/17/2012 1:53 AM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/16/2012 8:20 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/16/2012 8:58 PM, meekerdb wrote: So Kraus' argument does itself show at least one aspect of how classical teleportation is problematic. I rest my case. But his teleportation, which is based on

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-15 Thread acw
On 2/14/2012 13:45, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/14/2012 5:13 AM, acw wrote: How does the existence on an entity determine its properties? Please answer this question. What do soundness and consistency even mean when there does not exist an unassailable way of defining what they are? Look

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread acw
On 2/14/2012 05:57, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/13/2012 11:18 PM, acw wrote: On 2/14/2012 02:55, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/13/2012 5:27 PM, acw wrote: [SPK] There is a problem with this though b/c it assumes that the field is pre-existing; it is the same as the block universe idea that

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way of talking about this same kind of optimization problem without tipping his hand that it implicitly requires a computation to be performed to find it. Because UDA+MGA

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/14/2012 5:13 AM, acw wrote: How does the existence on an entity determine its properties? Please answer this question. What do soundness and consistency even mean when there does not exist an unassailable way of defining what they are? Look carefully at what is required for a proof, don't

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
On 14 Feb 2012, at 06:57, Stephen P. King wrote: acw: Yet the problem is decidable in finite amount of steps, even if that amount may be very large indeed. It would be unfeasible for someone with bounded resources, but not a problem for any abstract TM or a physical system (are they one

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way of talking about this same kind of optimization problem without tipping his hand that it implicitly requires a computation to be

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Joseph Knight
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 8:53 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way of talking about this same kind of optimization

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/2/14 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way of talking about this same kind of optimization problem without tipping his

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Richard Ruquist
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.comwrote: 2012/2/14 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Bruno Marchal
Hi Stephen, On 14 Feb 2012, at 15:53, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 14 Feb 2012, at 03:55, Stephen P. King wrote: The idea of a measure that Bruno talks about is just another way of talking about this same kind of optimization problem

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread meekerdb
On 2/14/2012 7:49 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote: On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Quentin Anciaux allco...@gmail.com mailto:allco...@gmail.com wrote: 2012/2/14 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net mailto:stephe...@charter.net On 2/14/2012 8:39 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/14/2012 10:25 AM, Joseph Knight wrote: [SPK] The flaw is the entire structure of UDA+MGA, it assumes the existence of the very thing that is claims cannot exist. It is a theory that predicts that it cannot exist. How? By supposedly proving that the physical world

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
, rendering this primitive material world devoid of explanatory power. HI Quentin, What is the difference? Please see my last post to ACW with the subject header Re: On Pre-existing Fields Onward! Stephen -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups Everything

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
2012/2/14 Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net On 2/14/2012 10:25 AM, Joseph Knight wrote: [SPK] The flaw is the entire structure of UDA+MGA, it assumes the existence of the very thing that is claims cannot exist. It is a theory that predicts that it cannot exist. How? By supposedly

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Quentin Anciaux
expectation of your next moment, rendering this primitive material world devoid of explanatory power. HI Quentin, What is the difference? Please see my last post to ACW with the subject header Re: On Pre-existing Fields The difference is that it is not primary... the physical universe

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread meekerdb
On 2/14/2012 11:31 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/14/2012 10:25 AM, Joseph Knight wrote: [SPK] The flaw is the entire structure of UDA+MGA, it assumes the existence of the very thing that is claims cannot exist. It is a theory that predicts that it cannot exist. How? By

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Joseph Knight
On Tue, Feb 14, 2012 at 1:31 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote: On 2/14/2012 10:25 AM, Joseph Knight wrote: [SPK] The flaw is the entire structure of UDA+MGA, it assumes the existence of the very thing that is claims cannot exist. It is a theory that predicts that it

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
last post to ACW with the subject header Re: On Pre-existing Fields The difference is that it is not primary... the physical universe emerge from computations. It should be an invariant in relative deep computation giving rise to consciousness. Numbers-Computations-consciousness universe

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-14 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/14/2012 2:47 PM, meekerdb wrote: My understanding is that the properties of the physical world are inferred from our subjective experiences that have a consistency (which Vic Stenger calls point-of-view-invariance) which allows us to model them as being out there, i.e. objective.

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-13 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/13/2012 5:27 PM, acw wrote: [SPK] There is a problem with this though b/c it assumes that the field is pre-existing; it is the same as the block universe idea that Andrew Soltau and others are wrestling with. Why is a pre-existing field so troublesome? Seems like a similar problem as the

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-13 Thread acw
On 2/14/2012 02:55, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/13/2012 5:27 PM, acw wrote: [SPK] There is a problem with this though b/c it assumes that the field is pre-existing; it is the same as the block universe idea that Andrew Soltau and others are wrestling with. Why is a pre-existing field so

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-13 Thread Brian Tenneson
Lots of interesting ideas going about. It sounds like you're pondering how many elements are in the set of all world-lines consistent with the true laws of physics (e.g., possibly, the least action principle). (Incidentally, that set oddly enough is timeless yet the bundles of world-lines that

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-13 Thread Stephen P. King
On 2/13/2012 11:18 PM, acw wrote: On 2/14/2012 02:55, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/13/2012 5:27 PM, acw wrote: [SPK] There is a problem with this though b/c it assumes that the field is pre-existing; it is the same as the block universe idea that Andrew Soltau and others are wrestling with.

Re: On Pre-existing Fields

2012-02-13 Thread meekerdb
On 2/13/2012 6:55 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/13/2012 5:27 PM, acw wrote: [SPK] There is a problem with this though b/c it assumes that the field is pre-existing; it is the same as the block universe idea that Andrew Soltau and others are wrestling with. Why is a pre-existing field so