Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 26 Jun 2018, at 02:37, Russell Standish wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 09:56:46AM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: >> >> I'm not using magic. I'm asking for help. Does anyone else understand how >> physics is "explained by the inability of the universal machine to see the >> equivalence

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 19:05, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/25/2018 5:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Do our minds impose a preferred basis? >> >> No. But our material brain does, and it needs to do that to become a >> classical machine, or to behave classically in some branch of the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 18:56, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/25/2018 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > But then you recognize that the physical world is a necessary component > and must exist to make computationalism meaningful. But that is exactly what happen. The physical

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 18:49, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/25/2018 4:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:30, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/24/2018 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > >

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 18:47, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/25/2018 4:08 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:26, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/24/2018 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:12, Brent

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Mon, Jun 25, 2018 at 09:56:46AM -0700, Brent Meeker wrote: > > I'm not using magic.  I'm asking for help.  Does anyone else understand how > physics is "explained by the inability of the universal machine to see the > equivalence between between []p <->([]p & p) and ([]p & <>p)  and ([]p & <>p

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 5:08 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2018, at 08:02, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/20/2018 9:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 5:03 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Do our minds impose a preferred basis? No. But our material brain does, and it needs to do that to become a classical machine, or to behave classically in some branch of the wave. The classicality is imposed by the fact that the key notion (the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 4:57 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: What is the mechanism in the block universe model?  What is the mechanism for the UD to produce the physical world? The UD, or simply the sigma_1 arithmetical reality generates all dreams (where a dream is a computation supporting a Löbian

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 4:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: But then you recognize that the physical world is a necessary component and must exist to make computationalism meaningful. But that is exactly what happen. The physical reality is phenomenologically explained by the inability of the universal

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 4:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:30, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/24/2018 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/21/2018 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/19/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/25/2018 4:08 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:26, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/24/2018 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:12, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 08:02, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/20/2018 9:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> Most of these objections to CI are

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 07:53, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/20/2018 9:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/19/2018 6:55 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:16 AM,

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 07:47, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/20/2018 9:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:14 PM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM,

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 06:41, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:14 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > > On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 25 Jun 2018, at 04:31, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2018 9:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 22 Jun 2018, at 02:26, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:30, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2018 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/21/2018 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > >

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:26, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2018 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:12, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/21/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:28, Brent

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 24 Jun 2018, at 21:21, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/24/2018 8:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree. To change QM, and getting the correct spin measurement in all directions, you would need to de-linearise slightly the SWE, but this makes the many worlds able to

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/24/2018 9:07 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Jun 2018, at 02:26, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/24/2018 8:36 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/21/2018 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/24/2018 8:29 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:12, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:28, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/24/2018 8:17 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I agree. To change QM, and getting the correct spin measurement in all directions, you would need to de-linearise slightly the SWE, but this makes the many worlds able to interact (Weinberg showed this, and Plaga in this list a long time ago).

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 22 Jun 2018, at 02:26, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM,

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:19, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. I

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 22:12, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:28, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/19/2018 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 16 Jun 2018, at 22:41, Brent

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 18:55, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 1:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:10, Jason Resch >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker >> > wrote:

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 21 Jun 2018, at 18:51, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/21/2018 1:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 19 Jun 2018, at 07:24, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/18/2018 4:33 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:01

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

I give up. This is going nowhere. Bruce From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:48 PM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:56 AM, Bruce Kellett

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 11:48 PM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com> > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:56 AM, Bruce Kellett < > bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> There are only two photons, but each has two possible polarizations. When >> you measure the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 10:37 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/21/2018 6:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

From: *Jason Resch* On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:56 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: There are only two photons, but each has two possible polarizations. When you measure the polarization, you split into two branches, one for each possible result. The partner photon reaches the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 6:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/21/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

Correction: I meant to say if we *ignore* Boltzmann brain type computations. (And only focus on larger computations that contain self-aware sub-processes). On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 8:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/21/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 3:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/20/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

Le ven. 22 juin 2018 à 01:33, a écrit : > > > On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 11:07:16 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: >> >> >> >> Le ven. 22 juin 2018 à 00:54, a écrit : >> >>> >>> >>> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 5:35:52 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:04 PM,

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 11:07:16 PM UTC, Quentin Anciaux wrote: > > > > Le ven. 22 juin 2018 à 00:54, > a > écrit : > >> >> >> On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 5:35:52 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >>> >>> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:04 PM, wrote: >>> >>> *​>​Send a check for $5000 payable to

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

Le ven. 22 juin 2018 à 00:54, a écrit : > > > On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 5:35:52 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:04 PM, wrote: >> >> *​>​Send a check for $5000 payable to Brent Meeker. When it clears, I >>> will send my check for the same amount* >> >> > >> Wow, I

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thursday, June 21, 2018 at 5:35:52 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:04 PM, > > wrote: > > *​>​Send a check for $5000 payable to Brent Meeker. When it clears, I will >> send my check for the same amount* > > > Wow, I just figured out what your real name is! You are

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 5:10 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/20/2018 9:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 7:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/20/2018 9:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/19/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 7:47 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/20/2018 9:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/19/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 2:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. I have no clue how to interpret decoherence with a collapse theory. You use decoherence

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 2:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:28, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Jun 2018, at 22:41, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/16/2018 10:16 AM, John Clark wrote:

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 9:04 PM, wrote: *​>​Send a check for $5000 payable to Brent Meeker. When it clears, I will > send my check for the same amount* Wow, I just figured out what your real name is! You are Abacha Tunde, the rich Nigerian Prince of scam fame. ​John K Clark​ -- You received

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 1:56 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:10, Jason Resch > wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/21/2018 1:49 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 19 Jun 2018, at 07:24, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:33 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/17/2018 2:24 PM, Jason

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 1:02 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/20/2018 9:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory.

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:59 AM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/20/2018 9:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/19/2018 7:10 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Thu, Jun 21, 2018 at 12:56 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com> > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Bruce Kellett < > bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> >> I find Baylock's exposition of counterfactual indefiniteness as applied >> in MWI quite opaque.

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:47, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. >> >> I have no clue how to interpret decoherence with a collapse theory. > > You use decoherence theory until you get

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:28, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/19/2018 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 16 Jun 2018, at 22:41, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 6/16/2018 10:16 AM, John Clark wrote: ​> ​ Another universe comes into

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 20 Jun 2018, at 00:14, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/18/2018 3:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> Block time plus MWI means universes aren't

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 19 Jun 2018, at 16:10, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > > On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 19 Jun 2018, at 07:24, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/18/2018 4:33 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> >> On 6/17/2018 2:24 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> >>> >>> On Sunday, June 17, 2018, >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 19 Jun 2018, at 07:16, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/18/2018 4:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> It will take a lot of work under his approach, but I am not aware of any >> other system proposed by anyone, which even has a chance at this. > > Penrose's gravity induced collapse has as

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 19 Jun 2018, at 01:54, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, June 18, 2018 at 2:40:20 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 15 Jun 2018, at 12:33, Telmo Menezes > > wrote: > > > > On 15 June 2018 at 02:55, > wrote: > >> > >> > >> On Thursday, June 14, 2018 at 8:15:59 PM

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 19:21, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > > >JKC has mis-stated CI. CI didn't say QM as embodied in the SWE was the > >theory of the world. Bohr and Heisenberg both held that theclassical >

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 17:23, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:54 PM, > wrote: > > >> What about it, what is your theory of decoherence and how does it make the > >> CI less dumb? > > > Not that I'm a great fan of decoherence theory, but it

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 14:38, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com > > >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:24 PM, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/20/2018 9:50 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. I have no clue

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/20/2018 9:48 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 7:10 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/18/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkell...@optusnet.com.au>> wrote: I find Baylock's exposition of counterfactual indefiniteness as applied in MWI quite opaque. He makes the argument needlessly complicated

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/20/2018 9:42 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 6:55 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/18/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/20/2018 9:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:14 PM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/18/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:47 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. >>> >> >> I have no clue how to interpret decoherence with a collapse theory. >> > > You use decoherence theory until you

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:24 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/19/2018 7:10 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:17 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/19/2018 6:55 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/18/2018 4:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> It will take a lot of work under his approach, but I am not aware of any

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 5:14 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 6/18/2018 3:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> Block time plus MWI means universes aren't created, they're all already

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:03 AM, Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com> > > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:26 PM, Bruce Kellett < > bhkell...@optusnet.com.au> wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch > >> >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 7:38 AM, Bruce Kellett < >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 11:04:20 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 2:22 PM, > > wrote: > > *>I found an old version of my resume and gave you the exact references, >> which you found without my help.* > > > I have no idea what you're talking about. I looked and I

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/20/2018 2:37 PM, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 03:09:37AM -0700, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 2:22:53 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:58 PM, > wrote: *​> ​I think you should admit that bringing up the energy

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 2:22 PM, wrote: *>I found an old version of my resume and gave you the exact references, > which you found without my help.* I have no idea what you're talking about. I looked and I could not find 2 scientific papers written by Alan Grayson or even one, and if they

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wed, Jun 20, 2018 at 03:09:37AM -0700, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 2:22:53 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:58 PM, > > > wrote: > > > > > >> *​> ​I think you should admit that bringing up the energy change of a > >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:28:16 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:46 PM, > > wrote: > > *​> ​And Yes, I did write two scientific papers with Carl Sagan.* >>> >>> >>> ​ >>> ​>>​ >>> Bullshit​. >>> >>> >> > > >* How much money are you willing to wager? Put your

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 10:46 PM, wrote: *​> ​And Yes, I did write two scientific papers with Carl Sagan.* >> >> >> ​ >> ​>>​ >> Bullshit​. >> >> > >* How much money are you willing to wager? Put your money where your mouth > is. It must be placed in an escrow account. AG* > I can't do that

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 2:22:53 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:58 PM, > > wrote: > > >> *​> ​I think you should admit that bringing up the energy change of a >> photon in a quantum experiment being caused by the expansion of the >> universe is just plain

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 2:22:53 AM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > > On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:58 PM, > > wrote: > > >> *​> ​I think you should admit that bringing up the energy change of a >> photon in a quantum experiment being caused by the expansion of the >> universe is just plain

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 9:58 PM, wrote: > *​> ​I think you should admit that bringing up the energy change of a > photon in a quantum experiment being caused by the expansion of the > universe is just plain dumb.* OK I admit it, saying a measured energy change found in a quantum experiment

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Wednesday, June 20, 2018 at 1:58:32 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 11:04:34 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: >> >> On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:29 PM, wrote: >> >> *​> **> I meant coming apart NOW. Bringing up the expansion rate of the >>> universe when the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tuesday, June 19, 2018 at 11:04:34 PM UTC, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:29 PM, > > wrote: > > *​> **> I meant coming apart NOW. Bringing up the expansion rate of the >> universe when the discussion is about the behavior of a photon in quantum >> experiment is just plain

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 1:55 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: > ​> ​ > practically "The Copenhagen Interpretation" is just "The Not MWI" > interpretation. > I agree, and that means there is no such thing as *THE* Copenhagen Interpretation. It means "all the problems have been ironed out so just shut

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 9:29 PM, wrote: *​> **> I meant coming apart NOW. Bringing up the expansion rate of the > universe when the discussion is about the behavior of a photon in quantum > experiment is just plain dumb. AG* > ​ ​ So says the man (or more likely boy) who claimed who claimed to

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 8:16 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: Most of these objections to CI are answered by decoherence theory. I have no clue how to interpret decoherence with a collapse theory. You use decoherence theory until you get to the reduced density matrix that is diagonal FAPP (or for all

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 8:08 AM, smitra wrote: On 19-06-2018 07:21, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/17/2018 4:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 17 June 2018 at 13:26, wrote: On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 10:15:05 AM

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 7:25 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 16 Jun 2018, at 22:41, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/16/2018 10:16 AM, John Clark wrote: ​> ​ /Another universe comes into existence when Joe the Plumber performs, say, a spin measurement./ But a

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 7:10 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:21 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 6/17/2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 6:55 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:16 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:09 AM, Jason Resch wrote: It will take a lot of work under his approach, but I am not aware of any other system proposed by

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/19/2018 6:42 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Tue, Jun 19, 2018 at 12:01 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 6/18/2018 3:31 AM, Jason Resch wrote: Block time plus MWI means universes aren't created, they're all already there.

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 6/18/2018 10:21 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Jun 18, 2018 at 12:55 AM, Brent Meeker > wrote: >JKC has mis-stated CI.  CI didn't say QM as embodied in the SWE was the theory of the world.  Bohr and Heisenberg both held that the    classical world

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

Somebody wrote: ​ > > *That's what determinism means. It means EVERYTHING IS DETERMINED BY > THE PAST. * Yes, deterministic means the laws of physics are deterministic, but Super Determinism claims much much more than that. Even if you knew all the deterministic laws of physics perfectly that

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 06:55, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/17/2018 2:13 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com > wrote: >> I think Jason answered that question very well. But who knows ​,​ the >> Transactional Interpretation could turn out to be right, it certainly

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 05:02, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 6/17/2018 5:20 AM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> How do you explain the finite computational resources of a table-top quantum >> computer factoring a prime number in seconds when it would take a classical >> computer the size of the

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 18 Jun 2018, at 01:24, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com > > >> >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 6:42 AM, Bruce Kellett < >> bhkell...@optusnet.com.au >>

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

On 19-06-2018 07:21, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/18/2018 4:27 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 9:57 PM, Brent Meeker wrote: On 6/17/2018 4:43 AM, Telmo Menezes wrote: On 17 June 2018 at 13:26, wrote: On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 10:15:05 AM UTC, Jason wrote: On Sun, Jun 17, 2018

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 17 Jun 2018, at 13:42, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > From: Jason Resch < jasonre...@gmail.com > > >> On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 12:12 AM, < >> agrayson2...@gmail.com >> >

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 17 Jun 2018, at 13:26, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, June 17, 2018 at 10:15:05 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 12:12 AM, > wrote: > > > why do you prefer the MWI compared to the Transactional Interpretation? I > see both as absurd. so I prefer

Re: Is the "bubble multi-verse" and "qm many-worlds" the same thing?

> On 17 Jun 2018, at 12:15, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sun, Jun 17, 2018 at 12:12 AM, > wrote: > > > why do you prefer the MWI compared to the Transactional Interpretation? I > see both as absurd. so I prefer to assume the wf is just epistemic, and/or >

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