Re: [MBZ] No Start, 240D
On Fri, 5 Apr 2013 09:19:41 -0700 Bob Rentfro azbob...@gmail.com wrote: Everything works electrically. The starter spins, the engine does not. The starter spins only when I jump across the terminals with a screwdriver. Turning the key does nothing... but all the dash lights come on correctly. Sounds like you have multiple problems: - If the starter spins, but the engine does not, you at least need a new starter solenoid. More likely a new (rebuilt by Bosch) starter. - If you cannot make the starter spin with the key, you have an electrical problem. Could be the Neutral/Park lockout switch on the side of the automatic transmission. Could be wiring or anything else on the journey from the battery to the center terminal on the soleniod. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start, 240D
Not on an 80. Is there a safety switch that requires you to depress the clutch to start it? Randy On 05/04/2013 1:25 PM, Bob Rentfro wrote: It's a manual. Bob R On Apr 5, 2013 10:48 AM, Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: Automatic transmission? Neutral safety switch! Might also be loose/missing shift rod bushings. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300, '87 300TD, '73 Balboa 20 Bob Rentfro azbob...@gmail.com wrote: Over the last 4 months, I have replaced the following: Ignition switch (electrical and mechanical portions) Starter Voltage regulator Cables Car will not start. Nothing happens when key is turned. When I turn the key on and try to start it using the big old screwdriver, it just spins the starter.What should I check? I'm getting annoyed. Bob R ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start, 240D
Assuming the soleoid works, this is the senario that first cinspired us to wire a door bell button to start the '81 240D. Bad ignition switch, but easier to wire around that to fix it. The kids loved it, and eventually threw a fit when I announced I was going to replace the ignition switch after the second door bell button burned up! FLAPS sell a started switch for timing, adjusting valves, etc. that connects to the big wire from the battery and the little wire on the soleniod that is only a more elegant screw driver across the terminals - but does make it easier to activate without shorting the battery for ground and welding the screw driver to the chassis (DAHIK). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
The 14 tires are going way up in price. Either I pay $300-500 each or go with the lower S rated rubber. All so I can keep the car original. I am sure the hoopty wheels with 235 55 17 rubber bands will make the car drive like feces. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 15, 2012, at 11:40 PM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. I have Michelin Destiny tires on the kids car and Kumho Solus on the coupe. Happy with both. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
less rubber and more rim sales for the tire shops. Most of the old cars with donut tires are headed to the junk yard to be crushed and our classic cars get expensive tires as an idiot tax for having old cars. New cars are plastic and disposable. The Al Gore movement to keep the economy plodding along clay On Oct 16, 2012, at 10:32 AM, Rick Knoble wrote: On Oct 16, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? Profitability. My guess is bigger tires = more profit. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Long ago it was a speed rating, but is now used more for structural needs of a tire to meet usage requirements. Too many people were getting hung up on the speed part and allow cars to be undershod because buyers were buying a lesser tire for lower cash, thinking they did not drive all that fast. Car was meant to use a specific tire to meet the performance needs of the car, not that one would drive at 148mph. R107 is a heavy car, so needs a stout tire to not overheat with the flexing of the tires at sustained cruise or in cornering. A lesser tire will cause a blowout as it overheats and fails. Current cars are less heavy, but other compromises are made so they still need a performance tire. Bigger rim with lower profile tire lets them have less flexing of the tire to get that sidewall stiffness. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 16, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Pray tell what is the meaning of the V rating by definition? Speed is not really the issue, it is the weight of the car that requires sturdy sidewalls, which a V rated tire has. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
A coupla years ago I got a set of tires for the 300SD at Costco, the guy there was very knowledgeable, made me sign a waiver because the tires he had did not meet the rating for the car, which he said was due more to weight than speed -- the Hun had specified that rating to support vigorous driving of the car. I told him I did not think I would be doing that much vigorous driving, but he said it would come into play during evasive maneuvers, etc. and that the car might not respond as the Hun intended. Made sense, but since those were the only tars available, that is what I got, and signed away liability to someone. --R On 10/17/12 2:47 PM, clay monroe wrote: Long ago it was a speed rating, but is now used more for structural needs of a tire to meet usage requirements. Too many people were getting hung up on the speed part and allow cars to be undershod because buyers were buying a lesser tire for lower cash, thinking they did not drive all that fast. Car was meant to use a specific tire to meet the performance needs of the car, not that one would drive at 148mph. R107 is a heavy car, so needs a stout tire to not overheat with the flexing of the tires at sustained cruise or in cornering. A lesser tire will cause a blowout as it overheats and fails. Current cars are less heavy, but other compromises are made so they still need a performance tire. Bigger rim with lower profile tire lets them have less flexing of the tire to get that sidewall stiffness. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 16, 2012, at 6:06 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Pray tell what is the meaning of the V rating by definition? Speed is not really the issue, it is the weight of the car that requires sturdy sidewalls, which a V rated tire has. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
It depends Near me the local street crews are putting in traffic calming islands instead of fixing up the pot holes that will become much larger in coming months. I guess pretty obstacles are better than safe roads. Added to this, main streets are being torn up two years after being repaved, so that sewers can go in. Patch work is garbage on these roads. Shovel ready? Waste of money clay On Oct 16, 2012, at 9:16 PM, Allan Streib wrote: Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com writes: If we ever hope to pay off our debt, roads will suffer more. Spending on roads is not why we are in debt; cutting spending on roads will not get us out of debt. -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net writes: Near me the local street crews are putting in traffic calming islands Happening here too, it is almost impossible to get from point A to point B without negotiating a variety of obstacles and impediments... you'd amost think the city council didn't like cars... naa couldn't be that Added to this, main streets are being torn up two years after being repaved, so that sewers can go in. Also happens here, I'm pretty much convinced it's deliberate to keep the workers in jobs. And 8 workers staffed on what should be a 2-man sidewalk repair, with 2 actually working and 6 standing around leaning on shovels maybe that's what they mean by shovel ready Allan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. I have Michelin Destiny tires on the kids car and Kumho Solus on the coupe. Happy with both. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 15, 2012 11:40 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? It's primarily a matter of styling. The practical benefits (room for bigger brakes, slight improvement in handling) are outweighed by the disadvantages (higher unsprung weight, worse ride, less protection of expensive wheels from breakage). Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 16, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? Profitability. My guess is bigger tires = more profit. Rick Sent from my iPhone ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 16, 2012 10:32 AM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Oct 16, 2012, at 11:59 AM, Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? Profitability. My guess is bigger tires = more profit. Tailfins were profitable too, once. As was the chop-top look of the Chrysler 300 when it was new ten years ago. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 15, 2012 11:40 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? It's primarily a matter of styling. The practical benefits (room for bigger brakes, slight improvement in handling) are outweighed by the disadvantages (higher unsprung weight, worse ride, less protection of expensive wheels from breakage). Alex AND, the big one for me... 'spensive tars that pop at the slightest impact. More and more important with the potholed roads not maintained by the public funds. If we ever hope to pay off our debt, roads will suffer more. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Original interior with messed up console. A poor upgrade to the radio resulted in chopped opening that needs fix. Might have to replace the whole thing though, as the paint is chipping on the console. Carpet and package shelf were cleaned up when I got her. Had to remove it all when I did POR 15 on the floors so I did steam clean and it looks great. Puffy under pad is in good condition as well. Seats had not been fed in a number of years and the pads were falling apart. I did a full Lexol treatment to get them supple again. I replaced the headrest stuffing on the passenger side and redid the pads on the driver seat. Feels like passenger seat will hold out a few more years, then I will stiffen up both seat springs. Dash and door panels are clean now. They do not look new, or blow ice cold, but do not look 40 years old. Roger saw her at the Show and Shine this August and was impressed with how nice it looked. Not a show car or concours, just a high #2 or low #1 clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:32 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: Different issue but how is the interior? Seats? Randy On 12/10/2012 5:25 PM, clay monroe wrote: That is a possibility. I put the hard top back on last night and tried to drive her to the garage for winter storage. She would not catch. Fuel is not flowing again. Tossed the car cover on for now. Will be sending her to the indy next spring for a full tune up and resolution of these issues. I have to get new shoes for her anyway. Hard to find a decent tire, let alone V rated in 14 inch.MBCA forums and Tom, from Classic center say the R107 should now be shod in a 15 or 16. Yeah, new rims... that will be cost effective. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 12, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Speed is not really the issue, it is the weight of the car that requires sturdy sidewalls, which a V rated tire has. clay On Oct 15, 2012, at 4:51 PM, Dieselhead wrote: IIRC, either the Michelin primacy mxv4 or the Michelin pilot tires are available to fit the 123.133's. I don't remember about the speed rating. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 I think that is the problem. the 107 supposedly goes faster. Not that it matters much with our friendly local gooobermnt revenue enhancement schemes uh sorry, I mean speed laws. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On 16/10/2012 3:33 PM, clay monroe wrote: Original interior with messed up console. A poor upgrade to the radio resulted in chopped opening that needs fix. Might have to replace the whole thing though, as the paint is chipping on the console. Carpet and package shelf were cleaned up when I got her. Had to remove it all when I did POR 15 on the floors so I did steam clean and it looks great. Puffy under pad is in good condition as well. Seats had not been fed in a number of years and the pads were falling apart. I did a full Lexol treatment to get them supple again. I replaced the headrest stuffing on the passenger side and redid the pads on the driver seat. Feels like passenger seat will hold out a few more years, then I will stiffen up both seat springs. Dash and door panels are clean now. They do not look new, or blow ice cold, but do not look 40 years old. Roger saw her at the Show and Shine this August and was impressed with how nice it looked. Not a show car or concours, just a high #2 or low #1 clay The reason that I ask is that I fear I am going to have a set of seat pads that I cannot use. I bought them on ebay and gambled that they would work on my 115. They won't. The sizing is similar but different enough that they would not do. I have tried to talk the vendor into letting me return them but to no avail so far. Thus, I might be prepared to make you a very good deal if you are interested. Randy We could talk off list if you want more details, photos etc. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
I thought the rubber band tars had lower un-sprung weight, which improves grip. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD Alex Chamberlain apchamberl...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2012 11:40 PM, Rick Knoble rickkno...@hotmail.com wrote: On Oct 15, 2012, at 8:27 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. It won't. Why not? It's primarily a matter of styling. The practical benefits (room for bigger brakes, slight improvement in handling) are outweighed by the disadvantages (higher unsprung weight, worse ride, less protection of expensive wheels from breakage). Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:26:15 -0400 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I thought the rubber band tars had lower un-sprung weight, which improves grip. Lower un-sprung weight does improve grip and handling, but lower profile tires mean larger wheels. It depends on which, tires or wheels, change more. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Pray tell what is the meaning of the V rating by definition? Speed is not really the issue, it is the weight of the car that requires sturdy sidewalls, which a V rated tire has. clay ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Tue, Oct 16, 2012 at 5:59 PM, Craig diese...@pisquared.net wrote: On Tue, 16 Oct 2012 18:26:15 -0400 Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net wrote: I thought the rubber band tars had lower un-sprung weight, which improves grip. Lower un-sprung weight does improve grip and handling, but lower profile tires mean larger wheels. It depends on which, tires or wheels, change more. Exactly. I suspect that, in going from, say, 15 to 18 wheels with the same overall diameter, more weight is added in the form of aluminum than is taken away in rubber. Alex ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com writes: If we ever hope to pay off our debt, roads will suffer more. Spending on roads is not why we are in debt; cutting spending on roads will not get us out of debt. -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Different issue but how is the interior? Seats? Randy On 12/10/2012 5:25 PM, clay monroe wrote: That is a possibility. I put the hard top back on last night and tried to drive her to the garage for winter storage. She would not catch. Fuel is not flowing again. Tossed the car cover on for now. Will be sending her to the indy next spring for a full tune up and resolution of these issues. I have to get new shoes for her anyway. Hard to find a decent tire, let alone V rated in 14 inch.MBCA forums and Tom, from Classic center say the R107 should now be shod in a 15 or 16. Yeah, new rims... that will be cost effective. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 12, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
IIRC, either the Michelin primacy mxv4 or the Michelin pilot tires are available to fit the 123.133's. I don't remember about the speed rating. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Oct 12, 2012, at 18:25, clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: That is a possibility. I put the hard top back on last night and tried to drive her to the garage for winter storage. She would not catch. Fuel is not flowing again. Tossed the car cover on for now. Will be sending her to the indy next spring for a full tune up and resolution of these issues. I have to get new shoes for her anyway. Hard to find a decent tire, let alone V rated in 14 inch.MBCA forums and Tom, from Classic center say the R107 should now be shod in a 15 or 16. Yeah, new rims... that will be cost effective. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 12, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
IIRC, either the Michelin primacy mxv4 or the Michelin pilot tires are available to fit the 123.133's. I don't remember about the speed rating. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 I think that is the problem. the 107 supposedly goes faster. Not that it matters much with our friendly local gooobermnt revenue enhancement schemes uh sorry, I mean speed laws. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Its hard to get decent 14 tires, especially V rated, especially in the wider 205/70 size. I bought a set of Vredestein Sprint Classics for my 450SLC 5.0 a while back, but they were over $200 each. But I wanted something special for that car and they were much cheaper than the Michelin XWXs the car originally came with. They looked awesome and handled great... I plan on putting a set on my W109. I have a set on Vredestein Hi Trac 2s on my 300D in 195/70R14 they're genuine summer tires which is especially hard to find in 14. I'm very happy with them and would get another set. Not sure if you can get them in 205/70R14, however. As you may have guessed, I have Vredestein dealer just down the road. Jaime On Mon, Oct 15, 2012 at 7:51 PM, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: IIRC, either the Michelin primacy mxv4 or the Michelin pilot tires are available to fit the 123.133's. I don't remember about the speed rating. -- John W Reames jream...@verizon.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 I think that is the problem. the 107 supposedly goes faster. Not that it matters much with our friendly local gooobermnt revenue enhancement schemes uh sorry, I mean speed laws. __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Its hard to get decent 14 tires, especially V rated, especially in the wider 205/70 size. I bought a set of Vredestein Sprint Classics for my 450SLC 5.0 a while back, but they were over $200 each. But I wanted something special for that car and they were much cheaper than the Michelin XWXs the car originally came with. They looked awesome and handled great... I plan on putting a set on my W109. I have a set on Vredestein Hi Trac 2s on my 300D in 195/70R14 they're genuine summer tires which is especially hard to find in 14. I'm very happy with them and would get another set. Not sure if you can get them in 205/70R14, however. As you may have guessed, I have Vredestein dealer just down the road. Jaime yeah, and I remember the days they could beat anyone's prices I bought lots of made in Germany Continentals, Metzler, Vred and Kleber tires form them that I can remember. That was really nice. Then something happened, and they suddenly were higher than anyone else. Not so nice now. $200 a tire? I won't pay $800 plus freight and installation for tires on a $500 car. I guess I could find some 126 15 hole wheels, but they won't look right on a 123. And, it is getting hard to find 15 tires now. I am wondering when the rubber band tar fad will go away. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
That is a possibility. I put the hard top back on last night and tried to drive her to the garage for winter storage. She would not catch. Fuel is not flowing again. Tossed the car cover on for now. Will be sending her to the indy next spring for a full tune up and resolution of these issues. I have to get new shoes for her anyway. Hard to find a decent tire, let alone V rated in 14 inch.MBCA forums and Tom, from Classic center say the R107 should now be shod in a 15 or 16. Yeah, new rims... that will be cost effective. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers On Oct 12, 2012, at 8:27 AM, Randy Bennell wrote: Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
I was thinking this too, Randy... especially with a D-jet car. Its interesting how a car can run with way too much fuel. Maybe just a stuck cold start valve? Could be lots of other things too... The issue is that its dangerous for the engine. Gas in the oil can ruin an engine pretty fast if left unaddressed. Good luck, Jaime On Fri, Oct 12, 2012 at 11:27 AM, Randy Bennell rbenn...@bennell.ca wrote: Is it running really rich? Your fuel loss or consumpton and the black oil makes me wonder if it is dumping way too much fuel into the engine. Randy On 10/10/2012 6:59 PM, clay monroe wrote: One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD __**_ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/**archive/http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/**mailman/listinfo/mercedes_**okiebenz.comhttp://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- Jaime Kopchinski http://www.jaimekop.com/ ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Used be able to central lock, but now I have to lock each opening. Well, then fix that! You now have motivation to do so, right? :-) The fuel lock is only vacuum-operated. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
It would be a good winter project, but she is getting put away for the rainy season. Locked away in a garage for five months. WIll give me time to gather the connectors and tubing so any broken parts are immediately dealt with clay On Oct 11, 2012, at 7:54 AM, Jim Cathey wrote: Used be able to central lock, but now I have to lock each opening. Well, then fix that! You now have motivation to do so, right? :-) The fuel lock is only vacuum-operated. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
On Oct 9, 2012 9:26 PM, clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: The odd thing is that a full tank, with 2 miles on it has lost 0.25 of the volume. My 123 gauge is usually incorrect for the top 10% of the level. It isn't always right or wrong in the same way, I assume there is some dirt or dead bug deposit or roughness at the top of the float. It is fine below that level so I haven't bothered trying to clean it. Anyway, hopefully this part of the problem is something similar, seems like you should still be getting at least a few mpg if the engine is tuned enough to run. :) Best, -Tim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Will have to figure this one out. Got her to light off and ran her on the road for a few miles to see if I could burp the system of air. Idle was pretty rough and seemed to be missing. Hot idle was less rumbly, but I think the miss is still there. Will have to have indy tune. The odd thing is that a full tank, with 2 miles on it has lost 0.25 of the volume. clay On Oct 8, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Could you rig a filtering circuit, pump out all the fuel via a filter, routing the clean discharge back into the tank? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Fresh fuel precipitated the issue. I have run a number of tanks this season, but might decide to drain and put fresh tank screens in. clay On Oct 7, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Pulled the dipstick yet? Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Will have to figure this one out. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
One would think, but I have been keeping an eye on the thing looking for leaks and drips while on the creeper for two hours. Stuck a sheet of cardboard under the car where the fuel lines go to see if there are drips that end up on it. I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:03 AM, Max Dillon wrote: You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Will have to figure this one out. Got her to light off and ran her on the road for a few miles to see if I could burp the system of air. Idle was pretty rough and seemed to be missing. Hot idle was less rumbly, but I think the miss is still there. Will have to have indy tune. The odd thing is that a full tank, with 2 miles on it has lost 0.25 of the volume. clay On Oct 8, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Could you rig a filtering circuit, pump out all the fuel via a filter, routing the clean discharge back into the tank? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Fresh fuel precipitated the issue. I have run a number of tanks this season, but might decide to drain and put fresh tank screens in. clay On Oct 7, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Oil dipstick is showing enough fluid. I sucked a quart out yesterday thinking I could dilute it from the motor honey. Black. wtf? Two oil changes in 1k miles and I am still getting black.Like diesel oil, not standard vergasser oil. Trans oil is good. No dipstick on the fuel tank, but the gauge has been spot on. I will stuff my old oil dip stick into the fill tube and see if I have wetness on it. Should prove fuel is actually gone, that the sender is not goofy. clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 8:13 AM, Frederick Moir wrote: Pulled the dipstick yet? Fred Moir Lynn MA Diesel preferred. From: Max Dillon meadedil...@bellsouth.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2012 8:03 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch You lost a quarter of a tank? Massive fuel leak somewhere? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Will have to figure this one out. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net writes: I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel. I remember when I was a kid, in the '70s energy crisis, that happened to my parents a couple of times. Park the car at work in the morning with a full tank, come out to go home and it's half empty. They finally had to get a locking gas cap. Just another facet of our rosy economic times Allan -- Allan Streib ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel Did you not lock the car? The filler hatch locks with the rest! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
I am sure I have it locked, but vacuum may not be cooperating. Used be able to central lock, but now I have to lock each opening. Before, I had to run the motor for a few moments to get enough vac to allow the rest of the car to unlock. clay On Oct 10, 2012, at 6:53 PM, Jim Cathey wrote: I am beginning to suspect that somebody has siphoned my tank and got 5 gallons of fuel Did you not lock the car? The filler hatch locks with the rest! -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Will have to figure this one out. Got her to light off and ran her on the road for a few miles to see if I could burp the system of air. Idle was pretty rough and seemed to be missing. Hot idle was less rumbly, but I think the miss is still there. Will have to have indy tune. The odd thing is that a full tank, with 2 miles on it has lost 0.25 of the volume. clay On Oct 8, 2012, at 1:13 PM, Max Dillon wrote: Could you rig a filtering circuit, pump out all the fuel via a filter, routing the clean discharge back into the tank? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Fresh fuel precipitated the issue. I have run a number of tanks this season, but might decide to drain and put fresh tank screens in. clay On Oct 7, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Fresh fuel precipitated the issue. I have run a number of tanks this season, but might decide to drain and put fresh tank screens in. clay On Oct 7, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Could you rig a filtering circuit, pump out all the fuel via a filter, routing the clean discharge back into the tank? -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: Fresh fuel precipitated the issue. I have run a number of tanks this season, but might decide to drain and put fresh tank screens in. clay On Oct 7, 2012, at 1:47 AM, Max Dillon wrote: Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No start Frosch
Glad you figured it out, hope your not looking at a fuel tank problem. -- Max Dillon Charleston SC '95 E300 '87 300TD clay monroe redgh...@comcast.net wrote: I had previously ordered a bunch of stuff from Rusty when I got the car. Fuel filter was not installed at that time, but I figured now was a good time to try. Turned out the filter was wrong. I got the filter for the newer R107. Did not know that until I hit my indy to let him know of the no start issue. He pointed out that there was no need for me to try to make the one I had into the one that came off the car. He went into his parts room and pulled out the exact filter. Gave me the same information about spark v. no fuel. If there was no spark, I had fouled the plugs. When I had removed the old filter, I had clamped the hoses to keep the fuel from spilling about. I pulled the filter off and emptied the petrol into the old margarine tub. Out came black stuff. Not thick, same as the standard but looks like carbon soaked. When I put the new filter on I hooked up the spark test tool. Then I waited for SWMBA to come home to either be blown apart or attest to the functionality of the spark. She said the spark was fine. Engine almost caught on the short test, so I popped the wire back on and lit it off again. It runs now. Will need to get a proper tune up with new points and condenser to make sure timing is right. clay 1974 450sl - Frosch - Two tone green 1972 220D - Gump - She is green, simple and ran 1995 E300D - Cleo - Used by the Queen of Denial POS 1987 SDL - Beware Nigerian Scammers ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] cold start valves
As I said earlier, I replaced a temp sender on my Mum's 190E because it too was hard to start, hot or cold. Actually I got it to start better disconnecting the cold start valve, which meant that the valve was squirting fuel into the motor.. Which reminds me, lo these many years ago, I decided to drive my recently acquired 116 450SE to San Diego, a 2 1/2 day jaunt. and I wanted to stop at the Portofino Inn in Manhattan Beach CA which was the finish point for the Cannonball Run a few times. Car Driver had been raving about the place for a few years so we decided to give it a try. It was a dump, speaking conservatively. Back to cold start valves, the car was out in the hotel lot and before stowing the baggage in the trunk, I decided to let it run a bit. When we got aboard, I smelled something and raised the hood (engine running) and dicovered the cold start valve doing it's impression of Old Faithful. The vee of the V-8 contained over an inch of gasoline, gushing out of that damned valve. I was momentarily frozen in my tracks but decided to head for the local MB dealer which I did at great speed, all in 1st gear. Of course, when we arrived, in less than five minutes BTW, the engine was warm, the raw gas gone and the valve no longer leaking. I disconnected the unit and replaced it when I got back to Seattle a week later. Cost about eighty bucks. Yes, the thing could have been incinerated but wasn't, no thanks to me. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D
Hey Wilton, Where'd yo u find the location Key for that lockout module? I seem to recall a diagram in the WSM - Maintenence section maybe? Thx LarryT 91 300D Let your engine tell you how healthy it is! Visit www.youroil.net For Inexpensive Oil Test Kits! - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:46:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D 'Just looked it up. It's behind (well, in front of, really, in relation to the car) the instrument cluster. Remove instrument cluster. Sitting in driver's seat, K38 is behind upper left corner of inst. cluster; illustration shows small square box. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:46:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D 'Just looked it up. It's behind (well, in front of, really, in relation to the car) the instrument cluster. Remove instrument cluster. Sitting in driver's seat, K38 is behind upper left corner of inst. cluster; illustration shows small square box. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D
Disc 1; Elec. Trouble Shooting; Relays and Control Modules, page 8 Wilton - Original Message - From: Larry T l02tur...@comcast.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Saturday, April 16, 2011 10:36 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Hey Wilton, Where'd yo u find the location Key for that lockout module? I seem to recall a diagram in the WSM - Maintenence section maybe? Thx LarryT 91 300D Let your engine tell you how healthy it is! Visit www.youroil.net For Inexpensive Oil Test Kits! - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:46:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D 'Just looked it up. It's behind (well, in front of, really, in relation to the car) the instrument cluster. Remove instrument cluster. Sitting in driver's seat, K38 is behind upper left corner of inst. cluster; illustration shows small square box. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com - Original Message - From: WILTON wilt...@nc.rr.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 7:46:27 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D 'Just looked it up. It's behind (well, in front of, really, in relation to the car) the instrument cluster. Remove instrument cluster. Sitting in driver's seat, K38 is behind upper left corner of inst. cluster; illustration shows small square box. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D
On Fri, 15 Apr 2011 18:55:04 -0400 Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com wrote: Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Sorry, I don't have a clue. I'm still trying to find things on our '94 E420. Craig ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D
'Just looked it up. It's behind (well, in front of, really, in relation to the car) the instrument cluster. Remove instrument cluster. Sitting in driver's seat, K38 is behind upper left corner of inst. cluster; illustration shows small square box. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D
BTW, if you car has telescoping steering wheel, you can run it to the fully extended position, and you don't have to remove steering wheel to remove the cluster. Wilton - Original Message - From: Robert Massmann rmassm...@embarqmail.com To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Friday, April 15, 2011 6:55 PM Subject: [MBZ] No Start from my 1995 E300D Well I foundd that the starter solenoid works so I have a break somewhere between the started solenoid and the ingnition start switch. Most discussion on forums relates to the starter lock-out relay module (K38). I have not found it yet. Next place to check is behind the instrument cluster. Is this were it is. There really isn't very much room in the panel area. If any one knows please let me know. Regards. Robert Massmann Oregonia Ohio ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://mail.okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 116 start
In Germany only. None were imported here. Rusty Cullens BuyMBparts, Inc. www.buyMBparts.biz www.buyEUROparts.biz www.buyASIANparts.biz Tel/ 1-800-741-5252 Fax/ 770-454-9745 ICQ 427542441 AIM BuyMBparts - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 22, 2010 10:28 PM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 116 start relng...@aol.com wrote: I'd like to see a reference regarding your idea that there was a 1972 116. Hier dreht sich alles um die Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse der 70er Jahre (1972-1980) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 116 start
Rusty Cullens wrote: In Germany only. None were imported here. That was my original contention tha Woger disputed. I was going to admit he was right, as I also found it said somewhere that production began in September 1972 as a 1973 model. Are you saying I was correct in the first place? 1972 there, 1973 here? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 116 start
That is what I am saying, yes. People also think that they own 1973 280SEL 4.5's. They don't. They may have been titled as a 1973 at some hokey dealer that had left over's on hand when the 116's came out but they were all built in 1972. Rusty Cullens BuyMBparts, Inc. www.buyMBparts.biz www.buyEUROparts.biz www.buyASIANparts.biz Tel/ 1-800-741-5252 Fax/ 770-454-9745 ICQ 427542441 AIM BuyMBparts - Original Message - From: Mitch Haley m...@voyager.net To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, December 23, 2010 9:37 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] 116 start Rusty Cullens wrote: In Germany only. None were imported here. That was my original contention tha Woger disputed. I was going to admit he was right, as I also found it said somewhere that production began in September 1972 as a 1973 model. Are you saying I was correct in the first place? 1972 there, 1973 here? Mitch. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 116 start
1972 elsewhere, 1973 here. I once drove way too far to look at three 1972 SEs and SELs. Turned out to be a W108 long, a W108 short, and a W114. Could have had all three for $500-600, and they were basically complete. Unfortunately, I needed W116 parts, and didn't have time/space to deal with those then. I knew that W116 started in 1972, but didn't know that MBUSA didn't sell W116s in 1972. The 108s were both 4.5s IIRC, the 114 was six, I think with carbs. The seller was surprised when I pointed out that one of them was not S-classe... I think you are a year off. The last of the W108s were early 1973 models when the W116 was already available. The Mercedes 116 chassis chassis automobiles were manufactured from 1973 to 1980. Instead of the twin sealed beam headlights mounted vertically as in the earlier S class the twin headlights were mounted horizontally. This chassis was only produced as a 4 door sedan model. They were extremely advanced for their day when first introduced in 1973. These big S class sedans were fitted with both 6 and 8 cylinder gasoline engines. The first turbo diesel engine was introduced in this chassis in 1978. For a big car their handling is remarkable. Mercedes 116 chassis owners praise the ride and handling even compared with cars manufactured today. If you can find a good one with low mileage, they make great comfortable road cars. I'd like to see a reference regarding your idea that there was a 1972 116. RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] 116 start
relng...@aol.com wrote: I'd like to see a reference regarding your idea that there was a 1972 116. Hier dreht sich alles um die Mercedes-Benz S-Klasse der 70er Jahre (1972-1980) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
That is a possibility that I didn't want to contemplate. It's in the bottom of the valley and not a fun job to get to. It does have a bit more then the usually heard about 100,000 miles on the pump. I guess I may have to ask about that the next time I go to Jacksonville. Manfred Date: Sun, 20 Jun 2010 17:59:39 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Message-ID: Check with a diesel injection service -- I'm not familiar with this particular pump, but a failed pressure valve or a worn rotor will give this problem, along with low power warm. You should NOT be able to get vapor lock, as the injection lines should be holding pressure up to the pop pressure of the injectors! 1500 psi is typical, now way the fuel can get hot enough to boil unless the pressure isn't holding in the lines. Might be time for a pump overhaul, those distributor pumps often require lubrication supplement with ultra low sulfur fuel or they wear fast. My old Volvo pump had to be rebuilt for this reason. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
The injection pump is a distributor type pump, the same one that is used on the 6.2 just turned up a bit. It doesn't have any air leaks. There is a small valve on top of the final filter that never has any air under it unless I have just changed the filters. The supply pump is an electric unit that I installed right next to the tank so the whole supply line except two connections and about 6 of hose is under pressure. The pump starts when the key is turned and you can hear the tone change when the pressure in the system is up to the limit that the pump can push which is about 7-8 lbs. That is the same amount as the original engine mounted pump did. I replaced it to make bleeding the filters easier after replacement and because the engine mounted pump has a habit of leaking fuel into the oil when the diaphragm goes bad. A bit of oil smoke after starting cold but it still starts right when you turn the key after the glow plugs cycle. No turning over to speak of just turn to start and it starts right now. The only thing that matches the problem is a vapor lock problem. It changes with the fuel supply and outside temp and if you have ever seen a big block in a van then you know about the clearance and heat issues in the engine compartment. The 6.5 is the same size as a big block. The other thing is that I remember it as starting back when they started with this super low sulfur fuel. Manfred Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:04:29 -0500 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Mid to late 70's Chevy V8s were terrible about roasting starters. As noted, this won't be the case if you have vapor lock in the injection lines. I'd lean toward a leak on the suction side of the fuel system. I'm not familiar with that particular engine, does it have a distributor type pump or an in-line? If it has unit injectors, you definitely have an air leak or a bad supply pump. I doubt it could be a compression problem, as that would give you fits starting cold, not hot, and would produce copious white smoke as you cranked and it did not start. No smoke, it's a fuel supply issue somewhere. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Check with a diesel injection service -- I'm not familiar with this particular pump, but a failed pressure valve or a worn rotor will give this problem, along with low power warm. You should NOT be able to get vapor lock, as the injection lines should be holding pressure up to the pop pressure of the injectors! 1500 psi is typical, now way the fuel can get hot enough to boil unless the pressure isn't holding in the lines. Might be time for a pump overhaul, those distributor pumps often require lubrication supplement with ultra low sulfur fuel or they wear fast. My old Volvo pump had to be rebuilt for this reason. Peter -Original Message- From: MG trainpain2...@yahoo.com Sent: Jun 20, 2010 5:20 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update The injection pump is a distributor type pump, the same one that is used on the 6.2 just turned up a bit. It doesn't have any air leaks. There is a small valve on top of the final filter that never has any air under it unless I have just changed the filters. The supply pump is an electric unit that I installed right next to the tank so the whole supply line except two connections and about 6 of hose is under pressure. The pump starts when the key is turned and you can hear the tone change when the pressure in the system is up to the limit that the pump can push which is about 7-8 lbs. That is the same amount as the original engine mounted pump did. I replaced it to make bleeding the filters easier after replacement and because the engine mounted pump has a habit of leaking fuel into the oil when the diaphragm goes bad. A bit of oil smoke after starting cold but it still starts right when you turn the key after the glow plugs cycle. No turning over to speak of just turn to start and it starts right now. The only thing that matches the problem is a vapor lock problem. It changes with the fuel supply and outside temp and if you have ever seen a big block in a van then you know about the clearance and heat issues in the engine compartment. The 6.5 is the same size as a big block. The other thing is that I remember it as starting back when they started with this super low sulfur fuel. Manfred Date: Sat, 19 Jun 2010 20:04:29 -0500 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Mid to late 70's Chevy V8s were terrible about roasting starters. As noted, this won't be the case if you have vapor lock in the injection lines. I'd lean toward a leak on the suction side of the fuel system. I'm not familiar with that particular engine, does it have a distributor type pump or an in-line? If it has unit injectors, you definitely have an air leak or a bad supply pump. I doubt it could be a compression problem, as that would give you fits starting cold, not hot, and would produce copious white smoke as you cranked and it did not start. No smoke, it's a fuel supply issue somewhere. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Peter, It took me a while to get to this due to computer problems. I guess this was meant for me with the mention of the Chevy. The van has a new starter. I replaced it and installed the heat shield that was missing as I also thought that might be one of the problems. To some extent the starter helped with starting in general as the new one turns the engine over a lot faster. Still doesn't change the hot start after the engine has been off for about 15 to 20 min. Before that its fine though you do notice that it takes longer to start the longer it sits, heat soaking. After about 2-3 hours it's fine again. No increase in the oil level or thinning of the oil. Still it also changes with the almost every fill up. With one tank of fuel it may do it and the next it won't. I try to stay away from Shell as that seems to be one that has done it more often then others. There have been other no name stations that have also had fuel with the same problem. All that said I think that compression may be part of the problem as it is a rather high mileage engine for a 6.5. It has over 200,000 miles on it and people that I have talked to around here seem to think that is more then I can expect from one of those. Anyway I only use it now and then when I have to pull a heavy trailer. Lately it has been the 'small' 1/2 ton military trailer usually with about 3000lbs of sand on it. :-) The 300D doesn't seem to be able to manage that quite as well and the hitch on it is a bit too low anyway. In any case I'm too lazy to do a compression check on the engine as I am getting to the point where the contortions needed to do that are just too much just to find out if that's the problem. I'll just keep going with it till it dies and then get rid of it. Manfred Date: Wed, 16 Jun 2010 22:12:51 -0500 From: Peter Frederick psf...@earthlink.net Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update You should also check the current draw on the starter when hot. When the windings go bad, they get high resistance, and that excess resistance goes way up with temperature, so when you crank with a bad starter that is already hot, it won't turn the engine fast enough to start. 100 rpm minimum, anything less and the compression leaks down too low for it to fire even with glow plugs. Worth a check, as this condition will give you the same problems (although it won't respond to bleeding the lines). GM was famous for roasted starters, especially Chevy, since the starter was less than an inch from the exhaust manifold! It's also possible that you have an internal leak in the IP -- you aren't making oil are you? check for fuel in the oil, of present time to fined a used IP. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Mid to late 70's Chevy V8s were terrible about roasting starters. As noted, this won't be the case if you have vapor lock in the injection lines. I'd lean toward a leak on the suction side of the fuel system. I'm not familiar with that particular engine, does it have a distributor type pump or an in-line? If it has unit injectors, you definitely have an air leak or a bad supply pump. I doubt it could be a compression problem, as that would give you fits starting cold, not hot, and would produce copious white smoke as you cranked and it did not start. No smoke, it's a fuel supply issue somewhere. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
I don't know of a mechanism that would cause the system to lose prime when hot but then regain prime after it cooled off. That's not to say that it doesn't exist, but I'd love to hear how that works. Let me restate your problem to make sure I understand. 123 turbo diesel - OM617.952 engine. Cold engine - fires right up with no priming and 'normal' cranking. Hot engine - no start unless you operate the priming pump. Once running there are no other symptoms (power is fine, mileage is normal, idle is smooth). History of the problem - it has existed for years. Seasonal influence - problem is worse in warm months. Have I got it right? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:20 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. I checked all connections on filter assembly and made sure all fittings had both washers. O-rings are new on the bolt for the filter. There are two of them, the lower one is smaller than the upper one. I hear nothing when operating pump manually. Could this be allowing fuel to return when the engine is hot and correct itself as the engine cools? No rising oil, I usually add a quart between changes. Thanks for the input, Mike On Jun 16, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Assuming that all the steel pipes are not rusted. .. Some fuel filters have o-rings on the bolt that holds the filter in place, older ones have an aluminum seal under the head of the bolt. I think yours has orings. Maybe someone else can say for sure. Air can leak in at these orings. Any loose banjo fitting at the filter can leak. The banjo fittings into the IP and out of the IP can leak. All banjo fittings are supposed to have an aluminum ring under the bolt head and under the fitting. Absence of any aluminum seal ring can allow air in the lines. There is a check valve on the backside of the IP at the exit line banjo fitting. It is possible somebody removed this. When it is very quiet, you can hear the check valve operating when you pump the hand primer pump. Do you have a rising oil level? It is possible, but very rare, for the IP shaft to leak fuel into the crankcase. I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in- line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Yes that is correct only the problem started about a year ago. Who is still looking for rusty lines and leaks in the system. Mike On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:39 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I don't know of a mechanism that would cause the system to lose prime when hot but then regain prime after it cooled off. That's not to say that it doesn't exist, but I'd love to hear how that works. Let me restate your problem to make sure I understand. 123 turbo diesel - OM617.952 engine. Cold engine - fires right up with no priming and 'normal' cranking. Hot engine - no start unless you operate the priming pump. Once running there are no other symptoms (power is fine, mileage is normal, idle is smooth). History of the problem - it has existed for years. Seasonal influence - problem is worse in warm months. Have I got it right? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:20 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. I checked all connections on filter assembly and made sure all fittings had both washers. O-rings are new on the bolt for the filter. There are two of them, the lower one is smaller than the upper one. I hear nothing when operating pump manually. Could this be allowing fuel to return when the engine is hot and correct itself as the engine cools? No rising oil, I usually add a quart between changes. Thanks for the input, Mike On Jun 16, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Assuming that all the steel pipes are not rusted. .. Some fuel filters have o-rings on the bolt that holds the filter in place, older ones have an aluminum seal under the head of the bolt. I think yours has orings. Maybe someone else can say for sure. Air can leak in at these orings. Any loose banjo fitting at the filter can leak. The banjo fittings into the IP and out of the IP can leak. All banjo fittings are supposed to have an aluminum ring under the bolt head and under the fitting. Absence of any aluminum seal ring can allow air in the lines. There is a check valve on the backside of the IP at the exit line banjo fitting. It is possible somebody removed this. When it is very quiet, you can hear the check valve operating when you pump the hand primer pump. Do you have a rising oil level? It is possible, but very rare, for the IP shaft to leak fuel into the crankcase. I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in- line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
I think the idea of the checkvalve failing and allowing it to leak down is worth pursuing, although I don't see how it would fix itself when cold. Maybe run a can if Diesel Purge to clean off the seat of said check valve? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Thursday, June 17, 2010 9:02 AM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Yes that is correct only the problem started about a year ago. Who is still looking for rusty lines and leaks in the system. Mike On Jun 17, 2010, at 6:39 AM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: I don't know of a mechanism that would cause the system to lose prime when hot but then regain prime after it cooled off. That's not to say that it doesn't exist, but I'd love to hear how that works. Let me restate your problem to make sure I understand. 123 turbo diesel - OM617.952 engine. Cold engine - fires right up with no priming and 'normal' cranking. Hot engine - no start unless you operate the priming pump. Once running there are no other symptoms (power is fine, mileage is normal, idle is smooth). History of the problem - it has existed for years. Seasonal influence - problem is worse in warm months. Have I got it right? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Wednesday, June 16, 2010 7:20 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. I checked all connections on filter assembly and made sure all fittings had both washers. O-rings are new on the bolt for the filter. There are two of them, the lower one is smaller than the upper one. I hear nothing when operating pump manually. Could this be allowing fuel to return when the engine is hot and correct itself as the engine cools? No rising oil, I usually add a quart between changes. Thanks for the input, Mike On Jun 16, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Assuming that all the steel pipes are not rusted. .. Some fuel filters have o-rings on the bolt that holds the filter in place, older ones have an aluminum seal under the head of the bolt. I think yours has orings. Maybe someone else can say for sure. Air can leak in at these orings. Any loose banjo fitting at the filter can leak. The banjo fittings into the IP and out of the IP can leak. All banjo fittings are supposed to have an aluminum ring under the bolt head and under the fitting. Absence of any aluminum seal ring can allow air in the lines. There is a check valve on the backside of the IP at the exit line banjo fitting. It is possible somebody removed this. When it is very quiet, you can hear the check valve operating when you pump the hand primer pump. Do you have a rising oil level? It is possible, but very rare, for the IP shaft to leak fuel into the crankcase. I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Assuming that all the steel pipes are not rusted. .. Some fuel filters have o-rings on the bolt that holds the filter in place, older ones have an aluminum seal under the head of the bolt. I think yours has orings. Maybe someone else can say for sure. Air can leak in at these orings. Any loose banjo fitting at the filter can leak. The banjo fittings into the IP and out of the IP can leak. All banjo fittings are supposed to have an aluminum ring under the bolt head and under the fitting. Absence of any aluminum seal ring can allow air in the lines. There is a check valve on the backside of the IP at the exit line banjo fitting. It is possible somebody removed this. When it is very quiet, you can hear the check valve operating when you pump the hand primer pump. Do you have a rising oil level? It is possible, but very rare, for the IP shaft to leak fuel into the crankcase. I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. I checked all connections on filter assembly and made sure all fittings had both washers. O-rings are new on the bolt for the filter. There are two of them, the lower one is smaller than the upper one. I hear nothing when operating pump manually. Could this be allowing fuel to return when the engine is hot and correct itself as the engine cools? No rising oil, I usually add a quart between changes. Thanks for the input, Mike On Jun 16, 2010, at 6:26 PM, Dieselhead wrote: Assuming that all the steel pipes are not rusted. .. Some fuel filters have o-rings on the bolt that holds the filter in place, older ones have an aluminum seal under the head of the bolt. I think yours has orings. Maybe someone else can say for sure. Air can leak in at these orings. Any loose banjo fitting at the filter can leak. The banjo fittings into the IP and out of the IP can leak. All banjo fittings are supposed to have an aluminum ring under the bolt head and under the fitting. Absence of any aluminum seal ring can allow air in the lines. There is a check valve on the backside of the IP at the exit line banjo fitting. It is possible somebody removed this. When it is very quiet, you can hear the check valve operating when you pump the hand primer pump. Do you have a rising oil level? It is possible, but very rare, for the IP shaft to leak fuel into the crankcase. I checked/replaced all connections and hoses and cannot determine where anything is leaking. Everything is dry and clean. I can actually see the fuel level in the clear filter level drop. I appears to be draining toward the spin on filter. Is there check valve somewhere that is allowing the fuel to drain back when it is hot. Is the injection pump going bad? I am getting so frustrated. Anyone within 200 miles of Whitehall, MI that has knowledge of how to fix the issue? I would be willing to travel to solve this. Thanks, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 3:21 PM, John Reames wrote: Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in- line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
One 115 chassis 300D I bought a long time ago was sold with a dis-assembled engine because it was hard to start. I transferred the factory re-man engine I had in a rusting out car to it, and surprise - it was suddenly hard to start! I found a small place where the steel fuel line had been rubbing against the frame. I had rubbed a pin hole through the line. I never saw a leak, it was not wet, but was enough to make the car very hard to start after it sat overnight. I cut he section and inserted a few inches of fuel hose, and the problem was solved. I don't know if this can be related to your issue or not, but I'd check every inch of the feed fuel line. On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Mike Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
Well stated. I had the same experience with a small rust spot under a clamp. Not wet. Not much rust. but the car started fine after I cut it out. Michaels's observation that the fuel seems to flow to the filter as the air leaks in indicates the return line. One 115 chassis 300D I bought a long time ago was sold with a dis-assembled engine because it was hard to start. I transferred the factory re-man engine I had in a rusting out car to it, and surprise - it was suddenly hard to start! I found a small place where the steel fuel line had been rubbing against the frame. I had rubbed a pin hole through the line. I never saw a leak, it was not wet, but was enough to make the car very hard to start after it sat overnight. I cut he section and inserted a few inches of fuel hose, and the problem was solved. I don't know if this can be related to your issue or not, but I'd check every inch of the feed fuel line. On Wed, Jun 16, 2010 at 6:20 PM, Mike Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Steel pipes and car are very good condition with minimal rust. -- OK Don Panic! (the national past time). ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns- Update
You should also check the current draw on the starter when hot. When the windings go bad, they get high resistance, and that excess resistance goes way up with temperature, so when you crank with a bad starter that is already hot, it won't turn the engine fast enough to start. 100 rpm minimum, anything less and the compression leaks down too low for it to fire even with glow plugs. Worth a check, as this condition will give you the same problems (although it won't respond to bleeding the lines). GM was famous for roasted starters, especially Chevy, since the starter was less than an inch from the exhaust manifold! It's also possible that you have an internal leak in the IP -- you aren't making oil are you? check for fuel in the oil, of present time to fined a used IP. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Mike, Don't know if this will help but... I had/have the same problem with my 6.5 diesel in the Chevy van. Doesn't happen in the winter but starts in the spring and summer down here in Fla. Didn't happen all the time either. I finally came to the conclusion that it had to do with the fuel and where I bought it. I think that some fuels have a lot more light volatiles in them and so when you shut the motor off the heat under the hood will cause a vapor lock condition in the injection pipes. The support in your case is that when you bleed the line the vapors come out and the engine starts right off. Same happens if you wait long enough for everything to cool and the vapors to turn back to a liquid. The proof is to leave the hood open after you stop the engine and come back an hour or so later and see if it starts without any problems. At least that seems to have worked for me on the van. It's too hard to get to the injector lines to bleed them so I haven't tried that though I may do that some time just to see if that works on the 6.5 Manfred Mike Esh Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
That is exactly what it feels like to me. I will try to leave hood up the next time it heats up around here. Thanks, Mike On Jun 15, 2010, at 1:19 PM, MG wrote: Mike, Don't know if this will help but... I had/have the same problem with my 6.5 diesel in the Chevy van. Doesn't happen in the winter but starts in the spring and summer down here in Fla. Didn't happen all the time either. I finally came to the conclusion that it had to do with the fuel and where I bought it. I think that some fuels have a lot more light volatiles in them and so when you shut the motor off the heat under the hood will cause a vapor lock condition in the injection pipes. The support in your case is that when you bleed the line the vapors come out and the engine starts right off. Same happens if you wait long enough for everything to cool and the vapors to turn back to a liquid. The proof is to leave the hood open after you stop the engine and come back an hour or so later and see if it starts without any problems. At least that seems to have worked for me on the van. It's too hard to get to the injector lines to bleed them so I haven't tried that though I may do that some time just to see if that works on the 6.5 Manfred Mike Esh Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Have you tried pumping the accelerator once or twice just prior to engaging the starter? This would ensure the fuel rack moves from the stop position if for some reason it was sticking (which is a cold weather symptom but worth a shot). The other thought I had is regarding the vacuum shut-off system. Any possibility someone has moved some vacuum lines around? Wonko the Sane had an issue with reversed vacuum lines at the ignition switch that cause some issues, but I think that was a low-power problem, I don't remember a hard-start problem in that case. -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Mike Esh Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 3:28 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I find leaks in the hoses or clamps. Someone on the list reported air leak at the filter. I have had 2 cases of rusty cars having steel lines rust through. Fuel should leak out of the injector lines when you crack them. They should not be empty when you crack them. Cracking the lines could reduce backpressure somewhat to prime the plungers, but if you have a good airtight fuel supply, cracking the lines has little or no difference with a Bosch inline pump, after the injector lines have been opened. Newer cars have no provision for priming. You just crank the engine until it starts after replacing a IP or injectors, or replacing Injector lines. Your 84 OM617 in not much different, except that it has a priming pump, which is a great aid for troubleshooting the fuel lines. Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Change all the hoses including at the tank. check the primer pump. If it leaks when pumping, or does not pump, replace it. An easy test is: in the condition when you know it won't start right, use the primer pump to bring up fuel to the IP. If it is a quiet location, you can hear the relief valve on the backside of the pump making a slight noise when fuel is exiting. The pump should have more resistance also when fuel is up all the way. then jump in and start the car. If that helps, then you know it is the hoses and clamps. the cloth wrapped hoses will leak air in without leaking fuel out. Steel lines will do the same. IF changing hoses does not fix it, then inspect the steel lines, especially under clamps for rust scale. You may need to cut out and replace a section, or replace the entire length. On my old SDL, the steel line rusted through up under the tank where it was nearly impossible to get to (or find). On my first diesel, it rusted under the body just behind the driver door under a clamp where it was hidden. Recap: 1. Use primer pump to see if that corrects the problem. If so, replace hoses, if pump does not work correctly, replace pump and hoses. 2. If pump and hoses does not correct the problem, check steel lines and replace as necessary. 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I find leaks in the hoses or clamps. Someone on the list reported air leak at the filter. I have had 2 cases of rusty cars having steel lines rust through. Fuel should leak out of the injector lines when you crack them. They should not be empty when you crack them. Cracking the lines could reduce backpressure somewhat to prime the plungers, but if you have a good airtight fuel supply, cracking the lines has little or no difference with a Bosch inline pump, after the injector lines have been opened. Newer cars have no provision for priming. You just crank the engine until it starts after replacing a IP or injectors, or replacing Injector lines. Your 84 OM617 in not much different, except that it has a priming pump, which is a great aid for troubleshooting the fuel lines. Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I find leaks in the hoses or clamps. Someone on the list reported air leak at the filter. I have had 2 cases of rusty cars having steel lines rust through. Fuel should leak out of the injector lines when you crack them. They should not be empty when you crack them. Cracking the lines could reduce backpressure somewhat to prime the plungers, but if you have a good airtight fuel supply, cracking the lines has little or no difference with a Bosch inline pump, after the injector lines have been opened. Newer cars have no provision for priming. You just crank the engine until it starts after replacing a IP or injectors, or replacing Injector lines. Your 84 OM617 in not much different, except that it has a priming pump, which is a great aid for troubleshooting the fuel lines. Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I find leaks in the hoses or clamps. Someone on the list reported air leak at the filter. I have had 2 cases of rusty cars having steel lines rust through. Fuel should leak out of the injector lines when you crack them. They should not be empty when you crack them. Cracking the lines could reduce backpressure somewhat to prime the plungers, but if you have a good airtight fuel supply, cracking the lines has little or no difference with a Bosch inline pump, after the injector lines have been opened. Newer cars have no provision for priming. You just crank the engine until it starts after replacing a IP or injectors, or replacing Injector lines. Your 84 OM617 in not much different, except that it has a priming pump, which is a great aid for troubleshooting the fuel lines. Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Check to see if your vent line is plugged... Either fighting to pull the filler cap or hearing air go in. I had an 84 sd that was taking on air until I blew out the vent line... -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 14:05, Dieselhead 126die...@gmail.com wrote: A stream of bubbles in the clear filter only indicates an air leak in the suction line. An air leak after the clear filter, in lines, transfer pump, filter, IP, or return lines do not indicate by bubbles in the clear filter. You can use the presence or absence of bubbles to focus your efforts before, or after the prefilter. If the hoses are old, OFTEN, there are multiple air leaks. If the hoses are all less than 2-3 years old, it is likely to be a clamp that is not tight. It is a good idea to change all the fuel hoses every 5 years or so. (yes the original hoses lasted 10-20 years.) I have not had MB replacements last that long. FLAPS hose is usually good for 5 years. I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC, 53310 wrote: Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I find leaks in the hoses or clamps. Someone on the list reported air leak at the filter. I have had 2 cases of rusty cars having steel lines rust through. Fuel should leak out of the injector lines when you crack them. They should not be empty when you crack them. Cracking the lines could reduce backpressure somewhat to prime the plungers, but if you have a good airtight fuel supply, cracking the lines has little or no difference with a Bosch inline pump, after the injector lines have been opened. Newer cars have no provision for priming. You just crank the engine until it starts after replacing a IP or injectors, or replacing Injector lines. Your 84 OM617 in not much different, except that it has a priming pump, which is a great aid for troubleshooting the fuel lines. Thanks for the input. No leaks at the pump and it is a newer style pump. Appears to to be pumping correctly however after manually pumping 30 times or more the vehicle will not start. After loosening the injector lines at the injectors I pumped manually about 20 times with no results after which I cranked with the starter and fuel began flowing from the lines within 5 seconds. Tightened the lines back up and it started right away. It sounds like I have a pinhole leak somewhere that I am going to have to track down, what a pain. Thanks again, Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 9:52 AM, Dieselhead wrote: Air leak in fuel lines. He said it is not delivering fuel to the nozzles when the condition exists. As an aside, Michael, you don't need to crack the injection lines. Just prime it with the hand pump, then crank it. I had a similar problem with an S10 pickup, it was something in the ignition system but since your car is a diesel I guess it would not be a hot ignition module... You sure it is fuel related? Is the glow system working OK? Glow plug fuse? Relay? I replaced the relay on the 84 300SD with whatever that new thing is Rusty sells, a fast glow relay or something? Or maybe it is just a new version of the same old. Whatever, the car starts much better now. (Hey, maybe that is like the hot ignition module?) --R On 6/11/2010 9:24 AM, Mike Esh wrote: 1984 300D 290,000 miles and running strong. Car starts very hard, sometimes not at all when I try to restart after driving long enough to get to full operating temperature. If I restart within a few minutes it starts right up. If I wait for 2 to hours it starts right up. If I try to start up within an hour or two it will not start. To get it to start I have to loosen injector lines and crank or manual pump until I get fuel to the injectors. During the winter here in Michigan I had no problem whatsoever. As soon as we hit 70 degrees plus it started acting up again. Is this a problem with the injector pump or do I have holey hose somewhere in the system? Thanks, Mike ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
On 6/11/2010 1:05 PM, Dieselhead wrote: I only use OE or OEM radiator hoses. They are still noticeably better than any third party hoses. I only use OE (with the star on it, came from a dealership) coolant hoses. I have noticed the ones with the star on it are better than the OEM ones... Not on every hose, but enough that I'm going OE from now on. John ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
What does the closing cap for the return lines look like on the last injector? It's oft neglected, or worse, lost and replaced with an improper replacement. You can cut the old hose off the plug and insert it into a new short piece of hose. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 15:28, Mike Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC,53310 wrote: Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Would leaking return lines cause loss of fuel pressure to the injectors after shutting down the engine? Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:02 PM, John Reames wrote: What does the closing cap for the return lines look like on the last injector? It's oft neglected, or worse, lost and replaced with an improper replacement. You can cut the old hose off the plug and insert it into a new short piece of hose. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 15:28, Mike Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN- ATLANTIC,53310 wrote: Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns
Keep it simple, would a leaking return line let air into the fuel system? The correct answer is: Yes. Air in the fuel lines does not directly keep fuel out of the injector lines. Air in lines lead to air in the IP. That means air in the plungers, and that means no fuel is pumped into the injectors lines. That means no fuel injected. That means that engine no runny. The plungers are fed by fuel in the body of the IP. When air in the system allows fuel to drain back into the tank, the fuel also drains out of the IP. Do you notice any difference if the tank is full vs, nearly empty? One other thing you can do is fill the tank, then pull off the line TO the clear filter. On an 84 123 sedan, the tank is behind the seat. Fuel should run out at the prefilter when the tank is full. It is possible there is some other weird problem, but do check and eliminate all the simple things first. Would leaking return lines cause loss of fuel pressure to the injectors after shutting down the engine? Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 5:02 PM, John Reames wrote: What does the closing cap for the return lines look like on the last injector? It's oft neglected, or worse, lost and replaced with an improper replacement. You can cut the old hose off the plug and insert it into a new short piece of hose. -- John W Reames jwrea...@comcast.net Home: +14106646986 Mobile: +14437915905 On Jun 11, 2010, at 15:28, Mike Esh michael...@me.com wrote: Car runs great! Cruises at 75 mph easily. In-line has one small bubble in it, and it does not seem to be pumping a stream of bubbles. Mike On Jun 11, 2010, at 1:32 PM, Dillon, Meade M CIV SPAWARSYSCEN-ATLANTIC,53310 wrote: Also note that the hand priming pump only moves fuel into the injection pump, NOT out the injection lines to the injectors. You operate the priming pump about 50 to 70 times to prime the injection pump; you will know that it is primed when the noise changes and the pump action firms up. How does the car run once you get it started? Can you reach top speed or does it lose power at highway speeds? Watch the clear in-line filter - is there a stream of bubbles entering? -Max -Original Message- From: mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com [mailto:mercedes-boun...@okiebenz.com] On Behalf Of Dieselhead Sent: Friday, June 11, 2010 12:58 PM To: Mercedes Discussion List Subject: Re: [MBZ] Hard start problem returns Try bleeding the fuel system at the filter (Top bolt, or line out) while you pump the primer. It sounds like air is getting into the fuel system somewhere. A leak at the filter can cause a leak. Bad copper seals in the delivery valves can cause problems. If you get air out at the filter, you have a leak. 95% of the time, I ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new and used parts go to www.okiebenz.com To search list archives http://www.okiebenz.com/archive/ To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Neutral Start Interlock
Terak, It got banged up (again) in an encounter with a Jersey barrier. The front inner fender wall was crumpled in about 6 in at the bumper mount and the local shop said it would be $$$ to put in on the rack and pull it out. I considered just mounting a new outer funder over the bent inner fender but decided against it. It was an incredible car, I hate to see it go. Will keep the motor however to put in the 72 220D. Bruce --- On Tue, 11/4/08, TE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: TE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [MBZ] Neutral Start Interlock To: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Mercedes Discussion List' mercedes@okiebenz.com Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 12:18 AM What's the deal with the 75 240? Tarek -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of B Dike Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:04 AM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Neutral Start Interlock Hi, The 82 300CD starter problem has been solved...almost. It needed both a new starter and neutral start interlock switch. While it waits for the new switch, can anyone tell me where to jumper the switch from inside the car? I can do it at the switch itself, but then the reverse light switch won't work. Thanks, Bruce 82 300CD 358kmi 'His' 85 300CD 263kmi 'Hers' 75 240D 202kmi 'Donner' headed for Ebay...snif... 77 240D 204kmi 'Blitzen' gone to a better place 74 240D 79kmi 'Orangewagen' 73 220D 'Fnu Lnu' ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Neutral Start Interlock
What's the deal with the 75 240? Tarek -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of B Dike Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:04 AM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: [MBZ] Neutral Start Interlock Hi, The 82 300CD starter problem has been solved...almost. It needed both a new starter and neutral start interlock switch. While it waits for the new switch, can anyone tell me where to jumper the switch from inside the car? I can do it at the switch itself, but then the reverse light switch won't work. Thanks, Bruce 82 300CD 358kmi 'His' 85 300CD 263kmi 'Hers' 75 240D 202kmi 'Donner' headed for Ebay...snif... 77 240D 204kmi 'Blitzen' gone to a better place 74 240D 79kmi 'Orangewagen' 73 220D 'Fnu Lnu' ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] no start
..Daughters GL320 cdi SUV, which she has had 6 or 8 months, has been towed into the dealer three times because it wouldn't start. Each time the dealer said it was a defective sensor. If anyones cdi doesn't want to start, not much use in running the battery down trying. Just call the dealer. Other than that, no problems, and she and her husband both love it. It gets about 22 mpg on the highway... This fault apparently has nothing to do with models or engines because it's showing up in some W204 C-classes as well. My C300, delivered last October, has had no problems of any kind which doesn't mean it won't happen today, of course. I think I will inquire this week about this. Highway mileage almost 28mpg running around 70mph. RLE ** Gas prices getting you down? Search AOL Autos for fuel-efficient used cars. (http://autos.aol.com/used?ncid=aolaut000507) ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] cold start rpms
2k doesn't seem right for that sensor, usually they are much higher, but I don't have that information handy at the moment. I'll try to look it up in a bit (I'm looking for the receipt for my cashier's check for the new Benz). The one for the ACC is a two pole after 7/87, single pole before that. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] cold start rpms
Thanks Peter . At a little loss about the temp.switch . single or double pin? There is the engine coolant sensor I checked which showed about 2K reading with a cold engine. the RMP's go up briefly when I pull and reconnect it back Regards mak - Original Message - From: Peter Frederick [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:06 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] cold start rpms Check the temperature switch -- I don't remember if it's open cold or closed cold, (probably closed) -- if not working, you may not get enough cold enrichment or the high idle. Double check the idle control valve and for vacuum leaks, too -- if you have enough leaks, the idle control valve won't do much. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.486 / Virus Database: 269.15.23/1114 - Release Date: 11/6/2007 8:05 PM ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] cold start rpms
Check the temperature switch -- I don't remember if it's open cold or closed cold, (probably closed) -- if not working, you may not get enough cold enrichment or the high idle. Double check the idle control valve and for vacuum leaks, too -- if you have enough leaks, the idle control valve won't do much. Peter ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cold start wear
I always do that with my freight trains! Doesn't seem applicable to my cars. Almost all automobile engine wear is cold start wear.. I have a Porsche 911 factory shop manual from 1968 that states that startup wear is equivalent to 200 miles at full throttle. Keeping in mind that all their engines were air-cooled in those days and top speeds were in the range of 130-140mph. So here they are endorsing Mobil1 0W40 more than thirty years before it was introduced. RLE
Re: [MBZ] Cold start wear
And Mobile 1 won't help a bit if the issue is gasoline wash down. The issue is not lack of oil pressure at start up. The issue is oil that's coating the cylinder walls being diluted with fuel condensate because the cylinder walls are cold at start up. No-one's oil (synthetic or otherwise) protects against this. Thanks, Tom Hargrave www.kegkits.com 256-656-1924 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 02, 2007 2:55 PM To: mercedes@okiebenz.com Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold start wear I always do that with my freight trains! Doesn't seem applicable to my cars. Almost all automobile engine wear is cold start wear.. I have a Porsche 911 factory shop manual from 1968 that states that startup wear is equivalent to 200 miles at full throttle. Keeping in mind that all their engines were air-cooled in those days and top speeds were in the range of 130-140mph. So here they are endorsing Mobil1 0W40 more than thirty years before it was introduced. RLE ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cold start wear
Tom Hargrave wrote: And Mobile 1 won't help a bit if the issue is gasoline wash down. The issue is not lack of oil pressure at start up. The issue is oil that's coating the cylinder walls being diluted with fuel condensate because the cylinder walls are cold at start up. No-one's oil (synthetic or otherwise) protects against this. That's seldom a problem in a well engineered and maintained engine. The cylinder walls of MOST well cared for Mercedes engines aren't seriously worn even after a quarter or even a half a million miles although using a synthetic might improve that slightly. Synthetics really do reduce most cold accelerated bearing wear (and other friction caused wear). Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] To start or to let slumber
Would it be better for the vehicle's health if I let it sit undisturbed until I intend to actually drive it? And why would it be better? That is a relatively short time, if inside especially, for anything but the battery and the fuel tank. And you have those covered. I'm sure that'll be best for it. If you don't run it for long enough each time to completely cook combustion moisture out of everything you'll do more harm than good. And it takes quite an idle to fully heat up, nor is extended idling particularly good for it. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] To start or to let slumber
Zoltan Finks wrote: Would it be better for the vehicle's health if I started it periodically? If so, how often? - or - Would it be better for the vehicle's health if I let it sit undisturbed until I intend to actually drive it? And why would it be better? I vote for undisturbed. Starting the engine and letting it idle doesn't get the oil hot enough to cook off the water that's a byproduct of the combustion process. The result can be corrosion due to the oil becoming acidic. I would change the oil before parking it and then leave it undisturbed. As for the fuel tank, put in some fuel stabilizer and then fill it up. Minimizing the amount of air in the tank will decrease the amount of water that collects from condensation. We're only talking a few months here, which isn't all that long to store a car. You probably don't need to take any other precautions, other than putting some kind of trickle charger on the battery. Make sure the tires stay inflated, though; low tires will flat-spot badly in storage and might be ruined.
Re: [MBZ] Cold start
Curt Raymond wrote: Since everybody else is posting about their recent cold starts... It got to 13F here last night, was about 19F when I went out this morning. Let the glow light cycle and then maybe 20 seconds more, 2 pumps on the throttle and hold at halfway, hit the key and it fired up like it was 50F out, no worries whatsoever. I'm pleased, this would seem to carry my theory that the iron levels shown in that car's oil analysis isn't really anything to worry about as long as each change continues to see levels fall. -Curt '85 190D Dory 254kmi What does timing chain stretch look like? Timing chain wear is a common source of iron in the oil. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: [MBZ] Cold start
Just a theory here but...If your source of iron IS timing chain wear could it make any sense at all that the longer you run it the less it wears until the point of failure? I don't know how to explain what I am thinking..Kind of like there is less tension on the chain as it wears more so it would wear less until it breaksDoes what I am saying make any sense at all or am I just dreaming again? Mike - Original Message - From: Marshall Booth [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 9:08 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold start Curt Raymond wrote: Since everybody else is posting about their recent cold starts... It got to 13F here last night, was about 19F when I went out this morning. Let the glow light cycle and then maybe 20 seconds more, 2 pumps on the throttle and hold at halfway, hit the key and it fired up like it was 50F out, no worries whatsoever. I'm pleased, this would seem to carry my theory that the iron levels shown in that car's oil analysis isn't really anything to worry about as long as each change continues to see levels fall. -Curt '85 190D Dory 254kmi What does timing chain stretch look like? Timing chain wear is a common source of iron in the oil. Marshall -- Marshall Booth Ph.D. Ass't Prof. (ret.) Univ of Pittsburgh School of Medicine [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
Re: [MBZ] Cold start
Just a theory here but...If your source of iron IS timing chain wear could it make any sense at all that the longer you run it the less it wears until the point of failure? No. The tension doesn't go down 'cause there is a tensioner in there. Wear _accelerates_, because the rollers no longer match the gear tooth spacing, and the hogged out holes in the rollers have more point pressure on the pins they spin on. -- Jim
Re: [MBZ] Cold start
Thanks JimJust a thought. Mike - Original Message - From: Jim Cathey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Mercedes Discussion List mercedes@okiebenz.com Sent: Wednesday, December 06, 2006 11:15 AM Subject: Re: [MBZ] Cold start Just a theory here but...If your source of iron IS timing chain wear could it make any sense at all that the longer you run it the less it wears until the point of failure? No. The tension doesn't go down 'cause there is a tensioner in there. Wear _accelerates_, because the rollers no longer match the gear tooth spacing, and the hogged out holes in the rollers have more point pressure on the pins they spin on. -- Jim ___ http://www.okiebenz.com For new parts see official list sponsor: http://www.buymbparts.com/ For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED] To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to: http://okiebenz.com/mailman/listinfo/mercedes_okiebenz.com
