Blainerb:
Just for the record, I believe the Lord was speaking
to his apostles, but was speaking concerning all whom
they taught.
That's how I read it too, but I will continue to consider Perry's comments.
Blaine wrote:
As Jesus said to Joseph Smith, concerning the Christians
of that day,
Thank you, jd. iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005
2:14 AM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
Sorry for the confusion
be with you.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Comments below:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
I beleive
Perry, I forgot to ask you again to address the situation of baptism in
regards to the eleven. Do you think they needed to be baptized again /
first time / what? Explain your perception of when they were baptized in
the context of, he who believes and is baptized...
Also, isn't the context
JD wrote:
You must know that I do not think I am
wrong in anything that I share. That is
assurance.
This is not assurance in the spiritual and Biblical sense of the word. This
is presumption, a counterfeit of faith. I sincerely doubt that anyone has
true faith that they are right in
it to you privately.
Perry
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:59 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Comments below:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED
hope this is clear...I am not a theologian and often cannot make my
thoughts clear in writing.
Perry
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Fri, 23 Dec 2005 09:37:08 -0500
Perry, I
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD wrote: You must know that I do not think I am wrong in anything that I share. That is assurance. This is not assurance in the spiritual and Biblical sense of the word. This is presumption, a
Perry wrote:
I have no reason to believe that the 11
had been baptised prior to Jesus'
appearance to them.
John 3:25-26
(25) Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the
Jews about purifying.
(26) And they came unto John, and said unto him, Rabbi, he that was with
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
I have no reason to believe that the 11 had been baptised prior to
Jesus' appearance to them.
John 3:25-26
(25) Then there arose a question between some of John's disciples and the
Jews about purifying.
(26) And they came unto John, and said
.
[Original Message] From: Charles Perry Locke
[EMAIL PROTECTED] To:
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Date: 12/21/2005 5:00:05
PM Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
David,Regarding your item 2, we might
also conclude that Jesus was speaking specifically to the
apostles
] On Behalf Of Dean MooreSent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:54 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decidescd: I agree Perry. [Original Message] From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
; Date: 12/21/2005 5:00:05 PM Subject: Re: [Trut
true; JCdoesn't see
Mormans as Christians--neither do I, Bro
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:49:48 EST [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
As Jesus said to Joseph Smith, concerning the
Christians of that day, "They teach for doctrines the
commandments of men, having a form of Godliness, but denying
G
I want a bat. Small diameter grip. Signiture "Pops-- 2006" Hickory ???
Long and light -- is there such a thing?
jd
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
true; JCdoesn't see Mormans as Christians--neither do I, Bro
On Fri, 23 Dec 2005 23:49:48 EST
Maple or ash,
Bro--hickory is way too heavy and Blaine bein' light on his feet and lightheaded
too probably runs faster than youthink
On Sat, 24 Dec 2005 05:36:27 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
G
I want a bat. Small diameter grip. Signiture
"Pops-- 2006" Hickory ???
Long
lk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
You are spending too much time listening to your own personal bias. Baptism of the Spirit occurs on nearly every occasion I am involved in the singing of song as per Eph 5:18-19. I have even written of my first e
stated that I do in my original
post below. From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0600 Perry, so do you think the "He" in verse 16 refers on
-- Original message -- From: Judy Taylor [EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:00:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:Huh? I can't pray for what I don't understand because my prayer tongue is English?? !!
The idea JD is that it is an exercise in faith because we
I refer you to Eph 5:18-19.Exegetical note: Spirit filling and Spirit baptism are the same experience. As Linda has pointed out, Spirit baptism and "new birth" are not the same experience. The apostles very own baptism in the Spirit was not accompanied by the laying on of hands. Cornelius and his
-
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org ; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 21, 2005 20:08
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
Why do you care?
--
Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL
ost below.
From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To:
<TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0600
Perry, so do you think the "He" in
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:00:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:Huh? I can't pray for what I don't understand because my
prayer tongue is English?? !!
The idea JD is that it is an exercise in faith
because we don't know how to pray as we should so the Spiritintercedes
for us
ED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]]
On Behalf Of Dean Moore Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:54
PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides gt; cd: I
agree Perry. [Original
Message] From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTE
:5, etc.
I'll wait for your response before saying anything more at this time.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 5:00 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who
David Miller wrote:
3. John 14:12
(12) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth
on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and
greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
This passage in John indicates that faith results in
miraculous works on the part of
, and confirming the word with signs following. They here also refers
to the eleven, the same they who went forth.
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:34:10
s Perry Locke I stated that I do in my original post below. From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: <TRUTHTALK@MAIL.INNGLORY.ORG> Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0600Perry, so do you thin
, 2005 09:48
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
David Miller wrote:
3. John 14:12
(12) Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth
on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and
greater works than these shall he do; because I
go unto my Father.
This passage in John indicates that faith
uthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decidesI stated that I do in my original
post below. From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0
My point is this: my level of confidence is as great or greater than yours at any time and on any biblical issue . You might take your own advice to heart. Your problem is this -- your theology has no answer for my stated belief nor does it have room for the same degree of confidence as you from
JD wrote:
Exegetical note: Spirit filling and Spirit baptism are
the same experience.
Sometimes Spirit filling might refer to Spirit baptism, but not always.
Following are some examples where people were filled with the Holy Spirit,
but this was not the same as the Acts 2 experience of
myth (tantamount,
perhaps intrinsic, toslade's'chair of Moses'where sitting
makes ppllike Izzydizzy..like their pappy's office chair rollin' on
wheels of firea stones throw fromthe Throne,at the right hand
of Yah..yeh, baby!)
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 09:24:58 -0500 "Lance Muir" [EMAIL
.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Well, David, in the short of it, if I have to beleive the Holy Spirit, or
you, I choose the Holy Spirit
: [TruthTalk] Who decides
John wrote:
... my level of confidence is as great or greater
than yours at any time and on any biblical issue.
Such a comment tells me that you still don't understand me concerning how
revelation and interpretation are not mutually exclusive events. I do not
have
OR, OR, OR, DAVID YOU, YOU, YOU HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE SPIRIT! As Iz would
say...Duh
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 11:07
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Perry, amen about always believing
Perry:This is really quite simple! It must align itself with David Miller's
'illumined' understanding.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 12:25
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
From: David
that will accompany the
eleven as they go out.
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
- Original Message -
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 10:01 AM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Well, David, in the short
Lance wrote:
... OR, OR, OR, DAVID YOU, YOU, YOU
HAVE NOT HEARD FROM THE SPIRIT!
As Iz would say...Duh
Duh is right. Nothing the Spirit would reveal to me would contradict
Scripture.
Surely you understand that not everything I share on has been revealed to me
by the Spirit, right? Surely
IMO, David, MOST of that which you share on TT has not been revealed by the
Spirit.
L
- Original Message -
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Sent: December 22, 2005 13:10
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Lance wrote:
... OR, OR, OR, DAVID YOU
Perry wrote:
Now, my question to you...how do
I determine if it was the Holy Spirit
giving me the understanding, or if it
was all in my head?
If you have to ask, then I suspect it was all just in your head. The
Scriptures say that my sheep know my voice. Nevertheless, sometimes the
Spirit
L wrote:
IMO, David, MOST of that which you share
on TT has not been revealed by the Spirit.
As Izzy and Lance would say: Duh. :-)
Peace be with you.
David Miller.
--
Let your speech be always with grace, seasoned with salt, that you may know
how you ought to answer every man.
David wrote:
Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use
pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these verses
refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know this because the
context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to every
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
I don't know if you understand what I am saying, but if you believe that
the
signs also apply to people other than these eleven, why try and make the
argument that this particular text does not? Perhaps if you do read it
this
way, you would be arguing
David wrote:
Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use
pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these
verses
refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know this because the
context of his message to the eleven is preaching the gospel to
Perry wrote:
If we make the error of thinking that this text
applies, in this instance and usage, to other
Christians than the 11, even though elsewhere
some of these signs may be discussed relative
to other Christians, then we risk making the
same error anytime Jesus talks makes a
@mail.innglory.org
Sent: Thursday, December 22, 2005 4:34 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
David wrote:
Jesus is speaking to the eleven. We agree on this. Verses 16-18 use
pronouns such as he, they, and them. All of these pronouns in these
verses
refer to the creatures to whom they preach. We know
I don't know fer sure just who is right and who is all wet, but since no
one that I know of has been healed by my shadow, I ain't about to drink
any poison.
Terry
Charles Perry Locke wrote:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
BTW, Izzy, the Holy Spirit revealed this
Practicalities should have no place here on TT.
-- Original message -- From: Terry Clifton [EMAIL PROTECTED] I don't know fer sure just who is right and who is all wet, but since no one that I know of has been healed by my shadow, I ain't about to drink any poison.
Comments below:
From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Perry wrote:
I beleive the verse about preaching to all creatures to be parenthetical
to the rest of the passage, telling the apostles their commission, but not
changing the subject of his address, namely those whom he had just
David, you recently posted this comment.
There is a distinction between revelation and Biblical interpretation. This is the source of your disagreement with Judy, not believing that God reveals to her knowledge through the Spirit. You even delineate different types of revelation, so how can you
David writes:
The way I see it, no matter how hard someone tries to have faith in a lie, with the kind of faith that Jesus is talking about in the passages above, he cannot do it. No matter how hard he tries, there will always be some reservation in his spirit. On the other hand, when we
John wrote:
... there is nothing that you believe as a
mater of faith that cannot be wrong.
I see it the opposite, John. There is nothing I believe as a matter of
faith that can be wrong. I'm not expecting you to understand this because
of our past discussions about faith. You and I
God is the One who has given me my point of view on faith, David -- therefore it cannot be wrong .He has given me a very detailed response to your post, here, but it will take some time to put it into script. Perhaps this afternoon when I get back from the shop.
The Bishop
--
David,
Regarding your item 2, we might also conclude that Jesus was speaking
specifically to the apostles, and that this does not apply to all believers.
The key is to identify the antecedent of He in verse 16, which I believe
to exclusively be the apostles.
Perry
David wrote:
2. Mark
cd: I agree Perry.
[Original Message]
From: Charles Perry Locke [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Date: 12/21/2005 5:00:05 PM
Subject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
David,
Regarding your item 2, we might also conclude that Jesus was speaking
specifically
JD, have you ever been born again
of the Spirit? iz
Huh? I can't pray for what I
don't understand because my prayer tongue is English?? !!
My wife prays in tongues. I have been around the experience
for years and years, David.I am just as much in the spirit as my
wife
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: ... there is nothing that you believe as a mater of faith that cannot be wrong. I see it the opposite, John. There is nothing I believe as a matter of faith that can be wrong. I'm not
: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
--
Original message --
From: David Miller
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
John wrote:
... there is nothing that you believe as a
mater of faith that cannot be wrong.
I see it the opposite, John. There is nothing I believe as a matter
Of course I have. And the illumination of the Spirit's presense is just as great and affirming as anything you might have. I too question your "birth." But God kows for sure and I will leave it in His hands.
jd
-- Original message -- From: "ShieldsFamily" [EMAIL
When were you born again, jd? iz
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
7:00 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
Of course I have
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Of course I have. And the illumination of the Spirit's presense is just as great and affirming as anything you might have. I too question your "birth." But God kows for sure and I will leave it
PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 6:39 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: Re: [TruthTalk] Who decides
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: ... there is nothing that you
, 2005
7:00 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
Of course I have. And the illumination of the
Spirit's presense is just as great and affirming as anything you might
have. I too question your birth. But God
kows for sure and I
Oh, I forgot to except your friends. izzy
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
7:07 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
testified to it in the past.. izzy
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 7:08 PMTo: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org; TruthTalk@mail.innglory.orgSubject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Why do you care?
-- Origin
I stated that I do in my original post below.
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0600
Perry, so do you think the He in verse 16 refers only
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005
7:34 PM
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org;
TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who
decides
You are spending too much time listening to your own personal
bias
@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
I stated that I do in my original post below.
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 18:46:19 -0600
Perry, so do you
this understanding to me.
Perry
From: ShieldsFamily [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Reply-To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org
Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides
Date: Wed, 21 Dec 2005 22:20:29 -0600
Really So only the apostles are saved if they believe and are baptized
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:00:29 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
writes:Huh? I can't pray for what I don't understand because my
prayer tongue is English?? !!
The idea JD is that it is an exercise in faith because
we don't know how to pray as we should so the Spiritintercedes for us before
the
I find what you've written right here to be confusing
JD because there is no scriptural pattern for getting the Baptism
of Jesus in the Holy Spirit while "singing a
song". The apostles believe in and practiced the laying on of
hands.
On Thu, 22 Dec 2005 01:34:26 + [EMAIL PROTECTED]
om: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:24 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides I stated that I do in my original post below. From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> R
om: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Charles Perry Locke Sent: Wednesday, December 21, 2005 9:24 PM To: TruthTalk@mail.innglory.org Subject: RE: [TruthTalk] Who decides I stated that I do in my original post below. From: "ShieldsFamily" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> R
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] JD wrote: My question is this -- when we do disagree on a passage of scripture -- who is right? You with your doctrine of
-- Original message -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: The failure of the "inspired" on this forum to answer or even try to answer questions concerning their doctrine of
David Miller wrote:
Obviously it depends upon the specific situation,
but if I have received a divine illumination concerning
a topic or passage of Scripture, I should not relinquish
that understanding simply because someone else has a
different perspective.
John wrote:
You mean when
John wrote:
At no time do I beleive that you or anyone
else possesses truth that cannot be wrong.
By definition, truth cannot be wrong. Therefore, the truth I possess cannot
be wrong, neither can the truth that you possess be wrong. If something you
hold to is found to be wrong, you can be
-- Original message -- From: "David Miller" [EMAIL PROTECTED] John wrote: At no time do I beleive that you or anyone else possesses truth that cannot be wrong. By definition, truth cannot be wrong. Therefore, the truth I possess cannot be wrong, neither can the
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