Re: [Vo]:Gasoline Tax Replacement
how about the companies SELLING and making a profit on those goods? On Fri, Feb 20, 2009 at 6:44 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Terry Blanton's message of Fri, 20 Feb 2009 20:22:35 -0500: Hi, [snip] By fair, I meant the fuel tax was relatively fair in that the weight of the vehicle, the damage to the roads, and the cost of the tax was related. The mileage tax would be more fair if the weight of the vehicle was somehow included. Terry A large part of the wear and tear on the roads is caused by trucks carrying goods that everyone uses, so taking the money out of general revenue is not all that unfair, and it's administratively much simpler and therefore more efficient. I thought a huge tax on tires might work, but that would only encourage people to drive way too long on a set of tires, which would be dangerous. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Gasoline Tax Replacement
This, unfortunately. On Sat, Feb 21, 2009 at 5:51 AM, R C Macaulay walha...@cvctx.com wrote: That's no longer the way the game is played. Jack up the price, skim the money to offshore and Pay NO tax. Richard In reply to leaking pen's message of Fri, 20 Feb 2009 18:56:07 -0700: Hi, how about the companies SELLING and making a profit on those goods? The more profit they make, the more they pay in company taxes, which goes into general revenue. [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
And doing so on an open list, not private email. which means he has a right to respond as well. On Mon, Feb 23, 2009 at 3:53 PM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Grok, I was asking Thomas, not you. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Well, to go for classic evangelical christian belief, likely that jesus is the son of god, died for our sins, and that salvation can only come through him. Oh, and that, even though Christ himself rejected large parts of the laws of the old testament, you have to follow them verbatim. except shellfish and mixing fabrics. On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Thomas, You brought up many interesting issues for which most are ripe for comment. I will try to restrain myself and endeavor to remain on-topic of this OT subject thread: The Rapture. I asked: I'm puzzled, Thomas. What are your criteria for qualification for rapture status? You replied with: You need to believe and follow a path of righteousness. ...along with: Unless you believe and pursue righteousness you will be excluded. Your good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of the L-rd. What are some of these righteous activities that must be believed in and pursued? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Umm, Leviticus 11:9-12 says: 9 These shall ye eat of all that are in the waters: whatsoever hath fins and scales in the waters, in the seas, and in the rivers, them shall ye eat. 10 And all that have not fins and scales in the seas, and in the rivers, of all that move in the waters, and of any living thing which is in the waters, they shall be an abomination unto you: 11 They shall be even an abomination unto you; ye shall not eat of their flesh, but ye shall have their carcases in abomination. 12 Whatsoever hath no fins nor scales in the waters, that shall be an abomination unto you. Deuteronomy 14:9-10 says: 9 These ye shall eat of all that are in the waters: all that have fins and scales shall ye eat: 10 And whatsoever hath not fins and scales ye may not eat; it is unclean unto you. So, NO SHELLFISH FOR YOU! On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 1:32 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: Well, to go for classic evangelical christian belief, likely that jesus is the son of god, died for our sins, and that salvation can only come through him. I think you leaked a word or two here; this sentence contains only dependent clauses. What's the proposed righteous activity which goes with these assertions? Oh, and that, even though Christ himself rejected large parts of the laws of the old testament, you have to follow them verbatim. except shellfish and mixing fabrics. Shellfish have never been required to follow the laws of the Old Testament. And of course some laws no longer apply, such as the one against eating four footed insects (Leviticus 11:20-23) since we now count six feet on all winged insects, AFAIK. On the other hand, if one accepts one popular zero-error explanation of that particular set of verses -- which is that the big hopping legs of grasshoppers, katydids, and so forth were not counted as feet -- then, if one also accepts all the rest of the except for notes in that particular sequence of verses, then one must conclude that: a) Locusts and their kin are OK to eat (they're called out specifically, ... you *may* eat ... those that have legs above their feet, with which to leap...) b) Cockroaches, which either walk on six feet (when strolling) or *two* (when they're really in a hurry), are certainly not four footed insects by anybody's measure, so .. it's also OK to eat cockroaches. Yum, chow down, guys! On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 11:52 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Thomas, You brought up many interesting issues for which most are ripe for comment. I will try to restrain myself and endeavor to remain on-topic of this OT subject thread: The Rapture. I asked: I'm puzzled, Thomas. What are your criteria for qualification for rapture status? You replied with: You need to believe and follow a path of righteousness. ...along with: Unless you believe and pursue righteousness you will be excluded. Your good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of the L-rd. It appears, based on this statement, that pursuing righteousness is at odds with doing good deeds. Does this explain some of the behavior of some members of the Religious Right? What are some of these righteous activities that must be believed in and pursued? Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Ohh, sorry. My original comment was being sarcastic, in that you had to follow all the laws of the old testament, except, it seems, EATING shellfish or WEARING two fabrics at once, since most evangelicals seem to feel those arent important anymore. I figured that with a smart crowd like this, I didn't have to spell out every letter of the refference. Ohh, and backing up to your first response to me, I was just listing off required beliefs, not behaviours. On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 2:57 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: This is getting a little surreal, methinks. You're the one who excepted shellfish, not me -- but, as it happens, you didn't say what they were excepted from. Being left to guess what the exception referred to, I merely observed that shellfish -- unlike people -- were never required to follow the Laws. If an oyster chooses not to keep kosher nobody much cares. If you can see anywhere in the Bible where it says, say, a shrimp will be stoned if it picks up sticks on a Saturday, please point it out. (Surely it will be stoned if it chooses to live in the waters of a bong, but that's something else again...) In any case Deuteronomy is pseudepigraphic. It was written hundreds of years after the other books of the Pentateuch, by priests fleeing from the fall of the Northern Kingdom. So it doesn't count.
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Sigh. So many forget that last one, and Jesus said he felt it the most important commandment. On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 10:14 PM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: OrionWorks wrote: Hi Thomas, You brought up many interesting issues for which most are ripe for comment. I will try to restrain myself and endeavor to remain on-topic of this OT subject thread: The Rapture. I asked: I'm puzzled, Thomas. What are your criteria for qualification for rapture status? You replied with: You need to believe and follow a path of righteousness. ...along with: Unless you believe and pursue righteousness you will be excluded. Your good deeds are as filthy rags in the sight of the L-rd. What are some of these righteous activities that must be believed in and pursued? Believe, be baptized, follow the 10 commandments, love your fellow man as your self. That is the minimum. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
My thought has always been, if god created man in his own image, and man is inherently sinful... On Wed, Feb 25, 2009 at 11:06 PM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: OrionWorks wrote: Hi Thomas, You have stated most succinctly that in order to be accepted in what Believe, be baptized, follow the 10 commandments, love your fellow man as your self. That is the minimum. Another distinguished Vort member, Leak, has already responded with what Jesus had to say on this subject. As for my personal thoughts on the matter I would like to point out a few things you previously stated: A Holy G-d is obligated, because he is holy, to bring about the expiation of sin from the world. I'd love to do something Perhaps I misunderstood your use of the wording here because I find it odd to claim G-d is obligated to do anything. If he/she is It has to do with his nature, of which Kodeshim (holiness) is an integral part. BTW, the Hebrew text makes it plain that G-d is a plurality of personages (see the three pillars of the Medatron in the Zohar) at least one of which is male. The Holy Spirit, OTOH, is female. Also consider this, what to you think would happen if the human race, in it's present sinful condition, got loose in the galaxy? But that's really not what I want to discuss. You state: ... this expiation will require blood shed, if I were to do that, I would be a bigger murder than Joseph Stalin. Those are heavy words, Thomas. Such a statement causes me to wonder how you are able to personally reconcile what is considered to be one Consistency is the hobgoblin of small minds. of G-d's most important commandments, which you clearly state is, Nazis attempted to do to the Jews during WWII? If this is a fairly accurate assumption on my part I find myself Lucifer delights in producing counterfeits of G-d's plans. the Nazi's were honoring the gods that they worshiped, the pagan pantheon. As for innocent blood being required for the expiation of sin, explaining that is beyond my pay grade. Is it because He is the ultimate Boss, and what the Boss sez and wantz ...the Boss getz? Rank has it's privileges. I see it in the light of a chemist doing what is necessary in order to make the reaction go in the desired way. The way you seem to be describing G-d's mysterious ways, I can't help but point out something obvious: What kind of example is G-d setting for his beloved creations if it is so written that he so commands his I'm assuming that Lucifer's rebellion was a necessary element in the plan. It seems that beings who have free will, can choose to follow Kodeshim or not. It's kind of like destructive testing under load. It appears that is the only way in which he can differentiate between the two. perform the necessary ...blood shed himself - presumably to set things right in this world. On that note, let me mention Isaiah 63. Our eschatologists put that at end of the Tribulation, where Yeshua deals with a remnant of Edom which has survived the ordeal which has afflicted the rest of the world. To me, such divine privilege does not come off as a perception of an all-knowing, wise, and loving G-d. If he can tell which sentient, free willed entities will fail the test without testing, then G-d has gone to a lot of trouble for nothing. Also there is the matter of the Wheat and the Tares. Lucifer spread his seed into the same field. I assume that he had to be allowed to do so, since G-d was being fair with him. Certainly NOT a Role Model to emulate! Rather, it seems more to be the perception of egotistical hypocrite known to have proclaimed: BELIEVE IN ME And while you are believing in me: Do as I say, not what I personally do. You clearly don't understand Kodeshim. Ditto for the nature of the universe. Jed, I ain't no atheist myself, but right now I do think I would prefer the company of a gathering of atheists. Would you please put in a good word for me? ;-) The Council of the Ung-dly, Psalm 1, will take in anyone. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
why would god create a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the ability to tell the difference between, if evil did not yet exist? Also, theres no good quote showing that satans fall DEFINATELY happened after man was created, no? On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: My thought has always been, if god created man in his own image, and man is inherently sinful... No, no, you don't have that right. God created the angels, the Nephilim, and the human race, but His track record, which is documented in the Bible along with various supporting documents, makes it clear that God just wasn't very good at this creation thing. In fact it's not at all clear that evil was in the world before humans were created, as I will explain: He/She/It/They started by creating the angels, or so it would appear, as far as we can tell from the fragments of time-lines we have on hand. Unfortunately God created the angels with the capacity for *envy*. By itself this is not evil, but there's a bad bit of alchemy which played on this capacity, which God certainly should have foreseen. (As long as we're assuming God isn't evil, of course, we must assume God didn't foresee the mess this would produce...) To get the full story, see either the Testament of Moses or the Book of Adam and Eve. God made Adam, like, sub-lord over all, *despite* having made Adam just a little lower than the angels. One angel in particular was seriously galled by the fact that God had actually placed Adam *above* the angels in rank order, despite Adam's manifest inferiority vis a vis those angels. That angel was, of course, Lucifer, and the worm of envy ate away at Lucifer and that is the source of (much of the) evil in the world. Thus, we can see that, if Lucifer hadn't had the capacity for *envy*, the world would be in much better shape today. Now, I said God wasn't real great at this creation thing; it wasn't just this mess-up with Lucifer which leads to that conclusion. Consider the Nephilim. They were, as far as one can tell, an early experiment in creation and they went seriously wrong. This is alluded to in Genesis, but to get the full scoop you really need to read the (misplaced) book of Enoch. (I say misplaced because it was quite literally misplaced for quite a few centuries, and only found again relatively recently. Note well: Enoch is quoted by Jude, so if we take the zero-error approach to the Bible we must include Enoch by reference, since Jude surely wouldn't have quoted Enoch if Enoch weren't also perfect ... right? The fact that Enoch was never really lost supports this view, too, as all the true books must ultimately be indestructible, as a moment's reflection will surely convince you.) But it wasn't just the Nephilim -- in fact one can also blame the Nephilim on some rather wayward angels, according to at least one version of the story. (But again, it appears that the angels in question were envious and covetous and that comes right back to the flawed angelic recipe God used to start with.) There's something even worse buried here: It took God multiple tries to get Adam's wife right. The first attempt, who was named Lilith, was just a walking disaster. The second time around, when God created Eve, things went a lot better. Incidentally, if God used one of Adam's ribs to create Eve, then he may have done the same for Lilith, and this would explain why men have equal numbers of ribs on both sides -- obviously God took one from one side for Eve, and one from the other side for Lilith. (So, which one was the left-winger? Not sure...) Anyhow we have here a very sorry record of creationism. Lucifer was obviously flawed from the get-go, the Nephilim were just a terrible mistake, and Lilith, who apparently got away rather than being wiped from the page of time, has caused who-knows-how much trouble over the millenia. Whatever, if the lot of you are going to pursue this silly subject, at least try to get the references right, and don't just *ignore* the ones you don't like. (BTW the Bible actually looks a lot more consistent if we (a) abandon the zero-error approach and (b) attempt to throw out all the obviously bogus books. The New Testament, in particular, gets reduced to the book of Mark and a few Pauline letters, with relatively few inconsistencies and sillinesses and some reasonably good philosophical advice.)
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Im saying, especially with the power shown in names by god (Giving to Adam the power to name all animals, and thus control them by their name) ect, wouldn't creating a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, and naming it as such, basically CREATE the concept of evil, if it did not already exist? I've not read those particular apocropha, i will have to look them up, thank you. As for Lillith, she appears in the Haggadda, which was basically a cliff notes with annotation book that got started up in, I wanna say 5th or 6th century bc, but I could have the date wrong without looking it up. It included larger versions of and personal thoughts on the Talmud on up through... Either esther or ezra. Again, my memories fuzzy. I really should just google it. http://www.lmgtfy.com/?q=haggadda there, that will take care of it. heh. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: why would god create a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the ability to tell the difference between, if evil did not yet exist? Hmmm, interesting question! I'm glad you asked me that, young man! Next question, please! (Errr... Perhaps God's ability to foretell the future had already tipped him/her/it/them off that there was going to be trouble with Satan, who had already been created at that point...) Also, theres no good quote showing that satans fall DEFINATELY happened after man was created, no? Assuming that's a serious question, here's a serious answer... In the Bible there's essentially nothing on Satan's fall. So, within the bible, the answer is a clear no. However, the Bible comes from a tradition which included additional material, both oral and written. The extrabiblical tradition regarding Satan's fall is, IIRC, written down in the Testament of Moses and the Story of Adam and Eve. It's in those (pseudepigraphic and/or apocryphal) books that the tradition of Satan's fall due to envy of Adam is documented. And I think it's pretty clear, in those books, that Satan's fall happened after the creation of Adam. The Nephilim are also a largely extra-biblical tradition. IIRC, within the Bible, there's a vague reference to them in Genesis, and there's a hint that Goliath was sort of a left over Nephilim, but that's about it. As I said, however, there's a lot more said about them in Enoch, which was once widely accepted as a holy book, before it was lost to Europe for several centuries. Interestingly, Enoch survived as a well-known and almost-canonical book in Ethiopia. All currently extant manuscripts of Enoch are in fact in Ethiopic, though the original book was written in Hebrew. And I have no idea where to find much of anything about Lilith. She's far, far extra-biblical -- she's not mentioned in any of the pseudepigrapha which I've read. (She makes an appearance in Valis, but I don't know anyone who considers that book sacred.)
Re: [Vo]:OT - The Rapture
Are you suggesting that the 4th planet is what happened the first time Satan got uppity? On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 1:12 PM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: leaking pen wrote: why would god create a tree of the knowledge of good and evil, the ability to tell the difference between, if evil did not yet exist? Good question, I wonder what the Zohar has to say about it. Also, theres no good quote showing that satans fall DEFINATELY happened after man was created, no? On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 11:04 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: There are some of us who believe that the world is old, millions, perhaps hundreds of millions of years old. Then there is the matter of the planet that might have been where the asteroids are today. IMHO, planets don't disintegrate, just the opposite. The late astrophysicist, Tom Van Flanderan authored a book on the exploding planet hypothesis. --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:Thoughts on this and that
4. When you get down to it, no one owes anyone anything. It all cancels out. You highminded geeks owe the lowly greasemonkey and metal press operator just as much as he owes you. So shut up. preach on brother! That opinion pisses me off a lot, Some of my friends that were able to go to a REAL college while I was stuck in community college had some serious ego issues about the lower classes. Sigh. as for the religion, hey, its being kept to one ot thread at the moment, and I find that when theres a single religion thread, it tends to reduce the extra crap tossed on in other threads. On Thu, Feb 26, 2009 at 4:45 PM, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com wrote: Vortexians, left, right, center, up, down, backwards, sideways, snakebit, and/or whatever political/religious/etc. leanings you may have: A few points, directed in seemingly random directions at no one party (all seem equally guilty here), but maybe not so random? 1. Someone should go read the f---ing list rules again, about what Vortex-L is for. Where's VortexB-L when we need it? 2. Where's Bill?!?! 3. On 'pay the government well to do it for us'... yes, that's fine. But do so with a large caliber and large number of guns pointed at them, and tell them, don't screw up. You want my taxes, you spend them right. 4. When you get down to it, no one owes anyone anything. It all cancels out. You highminded geeks owe the lowly greasemonkey and metal press operator just as much as he owes you. So shut up. 5. Think 4 is wrong? Try and live without a mechanic, a truck route driver, a line stringer for the electric company, etc., for a few days. You can't telecommute everything. 6. In progressing from a Kardaschev type 0 to a type I civilization, energy expendature/generating capacity must increase. To hell with efficiency and conservation, let us make more, better, cleaner. Let's do it so well, that no one needs worry about turning the heat down. 7. Barack Obama is not a god, and he will screw up. Anyone would. Whether or not he makes good decisions in the long run, no one knows yet. I hope he does; I would be insane to hope he trashes the place. But we don't know, and he has already done a large number of stupid things, and made a lot of people mad. Before you liberals say anything, consider this: your side is the one that bitches about not hurting feelings. You love feelgood. So stuff a sock in it. 8. Republicans...now I turn to you. Why are so many of you HOPING Obama et al trash the place? Wouldn't it make sense to hope that, despite what it looks like so far, they do something that helps PEOPLE, and not highminders (on both sides) and stupid causes? 9. The stimulus bill (soeee!!! pigpigpig...) should have been spent on energy. And no one should disagree with it. If you do, then you lie in what you post to this list. 10. I do not give a damn about polar bears. I could care less if they all die off. I would gladly kill every single one of them to save a single human life, and that includes everyone on this list, even those I totally disagree with, with no exceptions. Human life is something meaningful, and it is more important. If you don't agree, I don't care. 11. You on the religious right. You are guilty FAR more than many others. You claim to speak from God's perspective. May he hold you to that one day when you face him. You say (not pointing fingers, almost all Christians say this) that works are filthy rags before the Lord. Have you ever read a book called James? Faith alone without works is /dead/. 12. I am not done with you. Let's sit around and wait for judgement, because there's nothing we can do about it. The human race is more valuable than that. And you know what? It forbids such actions in...oh...that book called the 'Bible.' Maybe some Christians have heard of it? You are supposed to be prepared, in CASE the 'day' comes, but live as if it weren't for a thousand years. That's pretty damned ironclad. And from what I can tell, that means, get off your lazy asses and MAKE A DIFFERENCE. 13. Yes...laziness. It is very pervasive these days, ain't it? Christians seem to be among the lazy, liberals, conservatives, and so on. Hell, I can't really find a boundary. What group isn't lazy? Oh, right, very few individuals are. Talk is cheap. Go do something. 14. Worshipping Godman Obama will get you about as much result as worshipping anything else, in my experience: not a whole lot. 15. I am...spiritual. I am /sort of/ Christian. But oddly enough, I find better company these days with agnostics. They remember how to ask some questions. To be honest, I don't know what I believe, but I know this: God means, GO DO GOOD. The Christian church should learn this. 16. Freedom should never be exchanged for increased safety. Else, what's a life for? Or are you one of those people who thinks life isn't worth anything? Come, let us put you in a situation where
Re: [Vo]:Organic farming under threat...
This is becuase the organic old school sprays that most organic farms use are actually MORE toxic. Most modern bug and fungus sprays are designed to break down quickly and NOT poison groundwater. Where as the old organics One of the common fungicides is copper acetate or sulfate. Which breaks down, and causes copper poisoning of the soil. Organic right now is actually WORSE for the environment. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Organic and Small Farmers and Ranchers; Natural Food Products Farmers Under Attack... The Obama administration is pushing farm controls through Congress as fast as possible and has coordinated the bills so there will be no debate and the committee meetings http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-C ole-090214-935.html are closed. There are less than two weeks to stop the farming bills, H.R. 875 and S. 425. could put organic farms out of business. The group Democracy in action writes that the new food safety bills before in Congress were written and sponsored by big agri companies like Monsanto, Cargill, Tysons, and ADM. The USDA would be given the power to force organic farmers what to feed their animals, how to medically treat them and what toxic sprays to use. There would be penalties beyond the ability of most small farmers to pay. There are buried regulations in the bills which criminalize all aspects of farming by listing them as sources of seed contamination. Farmers would be forced to use only approved seeds. They could be forced to give up a good seed cleaner and put in a building and equipment for a million and half dollars. These bills are set to industrialize all farms and force farmers to buy chemicals and drugs and face $500,000 penalties if they refuse. More http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2 http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=26 714 http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2 6714t t Farmers Under Attack... This urgent message is from our correspondent, Linn Cohen-Cole on February 17, 2009: We have less than two weeks to stop the take over the farms and ranches. H.R. 875 and S. 425 We need to rally people immediately. The new administration is pushing new farm controls through Congress as fast as possible and have coordinated the bills so there will be no debate and the committee meetings are closed. Transparency, change, undoing Bush's regulations, giving the public time to comment, grassroots anything? Our entire food system and thus our health is being decided without the public knowing and those who do know have zero access and the media is absent and they are moving at warp speed to sew this up. Would you put these out, in this order, showing the article as you do so people are more likely to read it? They are imperfect but the closest I've come to explaining how the game is going to be played. No direct, frontal assault on organic farming but an insidious process of infecting organic farming... Example: imagine Joel Salatin's wonderful organic farm under the direction of the USDA, with detailed instructions on what he must feed and when, how he must medically treat his animals and with what, what he must spray and when, ... you get the picture. These bills will industrialize all farms and insure the farmers are forced to buy chemicals and drugs. Organic is dead. As well as human control over the food supply. As well as health. Schoolmarm approach to punishing farmers out of farming. http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-Co le-090214-935.html Bills being rushed through Congress, set to destroy organic farming. http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-bills-being-rushe-by-Linn-Cohen-C http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-bills-being-rushe-by-Linn-Cohen-Co le-090217-758.html Linn Cohen-Cole is a dedicated researcher and Paul Revere of health freedom. At her urging, we've set up an Action Item for you to send an unmistakable message to your representatives in the Senate and the House. We must educate Congress that you do not want organic and small farmers regulated out of existence. You do not want Big Agra regulations, perhaps necessary to protect the public when dealing with large scale agra business, applied to organic and small family farms and ranches or to natural and organic food products, including Dietary Supplements. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9zP2teJMuCs [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ATTENTION PLEASE: The Symphonic Health List is for educational purpose only; learning different health and healing modalities and exchanging opinions and experiences, and not to give medical advice. It may be news related, purely speculation or someone's opinion. This list or list owner make no
Re: [Vo]:Organic farming under threat...
Copper sulfate and other copper salts are pretty much the ONLY fungicides used by organic farming. The sprays used today by conventional farming are NOT the poisonous , groundwater polluting, wildlife killing soups they were 20 years ago. We figured out that certain things were bad, and then stopped using them. But organic farming gets a lot of breaks on proving things are safe. what these bills ACTUALLY do is create accountability, require that what methods a farm use are collected, and that data given to the government, and that things are properly labeled. It gives the government branch that is created the right to say, this process is NOT safe, here is the science saying it is not safe, STOP IT. And it allows better tracking of where food comes from. So that when things DO go wrong, like say, the tomato listeria issue, or the tomato e coli issue, or the spinach and lettuce e coli issue, or the peanut butter salmonella issue, from the past couple years (ALL of which were, shock and surprise , ORGANIC foods with bacteria issues). Ohh, and it will make it easier to prevent things like when the genetically modified corn that wasn't approved for human consumption ended up in taco bell taco shells. Of course, that corn was modified to naturally produce more BT, that people screamed about becuase it can cause issues such as breakdowns and stoppages in the human gut. And which is the same chemical that is the main organic farm spray used as a pesticide. Interesting. Thankfully, it breaks down quickly in direct sunlight, or with cooking, or with a few seconds of uv radiation. So the corn that made it into the shells, since it had been irradiated then cooked, was harmless. But... whoops. If used on lettuce, it can get down into the nooks and crannys between leaves, survive the sunlight in that matter, and since any uv irradiation at all means you cant market it as organic, it doesn't get irradiated. Hope you wash your lettuce REALLY REALLY WELL! (For note, my specialty is biochemistry, I am VERY concerned about the goings on of such places as Monsanto (spits on the ground) and grow a lot of my own food as a backyard gardener. But unfortunately, a lot of really UNSAFE practices got okayed for the organic label, and lot of neccesary safe practices screamed down by people who didn't understand the science of it, and at this point, the organic label on food COULD be good, but is often not. ) On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Um, I don't know for sure but I don't think that the certified organic produce used the sprays you are talking about, certainly I know that it has a far lower level of toxicity in the produce and beter levels of vitamins, phytonutrients and minerals. If certified organic in the US is so poorly regulated to include such sprays then that's another issues, not the case here. (NZ) On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:39 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: This is becuase the organic old school sprays that most organic farms use are actually MORE toxic. Most modern bug and fungus sprays are designed to break down quickly and NOT poison groundwater. Where as the old organics One of the common fungicides is copper acetate or sulfate. Which breaks down, and causes copper poisoning of the soil. Organic right now is actually WORSE for the environment. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Organic and Small Farmers and Ranchers; Natural Food Products Farmers Under Attack... The Obama administration is pushing farm controls through Congress as fast as possible and has coordinated the bills so there will be no debate and the committee meetings http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-C ole-090214-935.html are closed. There are less than two weeks to stop the farming bills, H.R. 875 and S. 425. could put organic farms out of business. The group Democracy in action writes that the new food safety bills before in Congress were written and sponsored by big agri companies like Monsanto, Cargill, Tysons, and ADM. The USDA would be given the power to force organic farmers what to feed their animals, how to medically treat them and what toxic sprays to use. There would be penalties beyond the ability of most small farmers to pay. There are buried regulations in the bills which criminalize all aspects of farming by listing them as sources of seed contamination. Farmers would be forced to use only approved seeds. They could be forced to give up a good seed cleaner and put in a building and equipment for a million and half dollars. These bills are set to industrialize all farms and force farmers to buy chemicals and drugs and face $500,000 penalties if they refuse. More http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp?campaign_KEY=2 http://salsa.democracyinaction.org/o/568/t/1128/campaign.jsp
Re: [Vo]:Organic farming under threat...
In other words you have a gut instinct that I'm wrong, I mean, organic HAS to be better, right? Just look at the name. But you have no clue in what way I'm wrong, and you'd rather not do the research and shatter your world view. Sigh. Just like all the anti alt sci types. This is a SCIENCE forum. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: You have some quite unbalanced points in there but I don't have the will or time to argue. What I can say is that the contamination issues you mention have much misinfo around them. On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:54 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: Copper sulfate and other copper salts are pretty much the ONLY fungicides used by organic farming. The sprays used today by conventional farming are NOT the poisonous , groundwater polluting, wildlife killing soups they were 20 years ago. We figured out that certain things were bad, and then stopped using them. But organic farming gets a lot of breaks on proving things are safe. what these bills ACTUALLY do is create accountability, require that what methods a farm use are collected, and that data given to the government, and that things are properly labeled. It gives the government branch that is created the right to say, this process is NOT safe, here is the science saying it is not safe, STOP IT. And it allows better tracking of where food comes from. So that when things DO go wrong, like say, the tomato listeria issue, or the tomato e coli issue, or the spinach and lettuce e coli issue, or the peanut butter salmonella issue, from the past couple years (ALL of which were, shock and surprise , ORGANIC foods with bacteria issues). Ohh, and it will make it easier to prevent things like when the genetically modified corn that wasn't approved for human consumption ended up in taco bell taco shells. Of course, that corn was modified to naturally produce more BT, that people screamed about becuase it can cause issues such as breakdowns and stoppages in the human gut. And which is the same chemical that is the main organic farm spray used as a pesticide. Interesting. Thankfully, it breaks down quickly in direct sunlight, or with cooking, or with a few seconds of uv radiation. So the corn that made it into the shells, since it had been irradiated then cooked, was harmless. But... whoops. If used on lettuce, it can get down into the nooks and crannys between leaves, survive the sunlight in that matter, and since any uv irradiation at all means you cant market it as organic, it doesn't get irradiated. Hope you wash your lettuce REALLY REALLY WELL! (For note, my specialty is biochemistry, I am VERY concerned about the goings on of such places as Monsanto (spits on the ground) and grow a lot of my own food as a backyard gardener. But unfortunately, a lot of really UNSAFE practices got okayed for the organic label, and lot of neccesary safe practices screamed down by people who didn't understand the science of it, and at this point, the organic label on food COULD be good, but is often not. ) On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Um, I don't know for sure but I don't think that the certified organic produce used the sprays you are talking about, certainly I know that it has a far lower level of toxicity in the produce and beter levels of vitamins, phytonutrients and minerals. If certified organic in the US is so poorly regulated to include such sprays then that's another issues, not the case here. (NZ) On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 12:39 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: This is becuase the organic old school sprays that most organic farms use are actually MORE toxic. Most modern bug and fungus sprays are designed to break down quickly and NOT poison groundwater. Where as the old organics One of the common fungicides is copper acetate or sulfate. Which breaks down, and causes copper poisoning of the soil. Organic right now is actually WORSE for the environment. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 4:23 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Organic and Small Farmers and Ranchers; Natural Food Products Farmers Under Attack... The Obama administration is pushing farm controls through Congress as fast as possible and has coordinated the bills so there will be no debate and the committee meetings http://www.opednews.com/articles/Monsanto-and-the-Schoolmar-by-Linn-Cohen-C ole-090214-935.html are closed. There are less than two weeks to stop the farming bills, H.R. 875 and S. 425. could put organic farms out of business. The group Democracy in action writes that the new food safety bills before in Congress were written and sponsored by big agri companies like Monsanto, Cargill, Tysons, and ADM. The USDA would be given the power to force organic farmers what to feed their animals, how to medically treat
Re: [Vo]:Organic farming under threat...
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/sep/06/health/he-organic6?s=on=ord=www.consumerfreedom.comsessid=48b8477102f0851fe27cee152b2fcdd1f9c1f6d0pg=4pgtp=articleeagi=page_type=articleexci=2004_09_06_health_he-organic6 http://www.independent.co.uk/environment/green-living/the-great-organic-myths-why-organic-foods-are-an-indulgence-the-world-cant-afford-818585.html the difference in vitamins is generally on the order of less than a percentage of difference from every unbiased, well documented study i've seen. And again, you are miscategorizing conventional farming by calling it a chemical soup. Are there particular farms that perhaps spray too much and too often and with more things than they should? Sure, you get that kind of behaviour in any industry. But this law you are bitching about, guess what? Will help reduce and eliminate that. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 8:16 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: No, I know that it is better, and know know that much of what you say is flawed but I don't see the point in arguing it with you. Organic food has higher levels of vitamins and phytonutrients, is lacks the chemical soup that is used by conventionally grown produce and various other advantages. I have done research into organics but not on what they use in different areas to protect the produce and at some point I might look that up though I don't have the time right now. If you are ignoring the benefits of organically grown produce then tyou are making a mistake but it's one I don't have anymore time to correct right now. On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 3:31 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: In other words you have a gut instinct that I'm wrong, I mean, organic HAS to be better, right? Just look at the name. But you have no clue in what way I'm wrong, and you'd rather not do the research and shatter your world view. Sigh. Just like all the anti alt sci types. This is a SCIENCE forum. On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 7:16 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: You have some quite unbalanced points in there but I don't have the will or time to argue. What I can say is that the contamination issues you mention have much misinfo around them. On Mon, Mar 9, 2009 at 2:54 PM, leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com wrote: Copper sulfate and other copper salts are pretty much the ONLY fungicides used by organic farming. The sprays used today by conventional farming are NOT the poisonous , groundwater polluting, wildlife killing soups they were 20 years ago. We figured out that certain things were bad, and then stopped using them. But organic farming gets a lot of breaks on proving things are safe. what these bills ACTUALLY do is create accountability, require that what methods a farm use are collected, and that data given to the government, and that things are properly labeled. It gives the government branch that is created the right to say, this process is NOT safe, here is the science saying it is not safe, STOP IT. And it allows better tracking of where food comes from. So that when things DO go wrong, like say, the tomato listeria issue, or the tomato e coli issue, or the spinach and lettuce e coli issue, or the peanut butter salmonella issue, from the past couple years (ALL of which were, shock and surprise , ORGANIC foods with bacteria issues). Ohh, and it will make it easier to prevent things like when the genetically modified corn that wasn't approved for human consumption ended up in taco bell taco shells. Of course, that corn was modified to naturally produce more BT, that people screamed about becuase it can cause issues such as breakdowns and stoppages in the human gut. And which is the same chemical that is the main organic farm spray used as a pesticide. Interesting. Thankfully, it breaks down quickly in direct sunlight, or with cooking, or with a few seconds of uv radiation. So the corn that made it into the shells, since it had been irradiated then cooked, was harmless. But... whoops. If used on lettuce, it can get down into the nooks and crannys between leaves, survive the sunlight in that matter, and since any uv irradiation at all means you cant market it as organic, it doesn't get irradiated. Hope you wash your lettuce REALLY REALLY WELL! (For note, my specialty is biochemistry, I am VERY concerned about the goings on of such places as Monsanto (spits on the ground) and grow a lot of my own food as a backyard gardener. But unfortunately, a lot of really UNSAFE practices got okayed for the organic label, and lot of neccesary safe practices screamed down by people who didn't understand the science of it, and at this point, the organic label on food COULD be good, but is often not. ) On Sun, Mar 8, 2009 at 5:21 PM, John Berry aethe...@gmail.com wrote: Um, I don't know for sure but I don't think that the certified organic produce used the sprays you are talking
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
More importantly, winters are getting colder, from more open water and less ice, causing more reflection back, and summers hotter, melting the ice, repeating the cycle. look at summer data, and winter data. hotter in summer, colder in winter, than previous. This is why its called global climate change. its not JUST warming... On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 10:24 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: thomas malloy wrote: You do realize, I hope, that this has no bearing whatever on the validity of global warming observations. You do realize, I hope, that this has been an ongoing pattern this year. An ongoing pattern where? In your state? In North America? This is not the worldwide trend. Temperatures in Japan and Europe, for example, remain at record highs this year. Also, trends that last only one year do not count. You have to look for broader, longer trends. There have been several cold years in the last few decades, but there have been many more hot years and the average is higher than previous norms. Finally, I believe global warming is thought to produce temperature extremes including colder than normal temperatures in winter. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
I have a spelling chequer. It came with my PC. It plane lee marks four my revue Miss steaks aye can knot sea. Eye ran this poem threw it, Your sure reel glad two no. Its vary polished inn it's weigh. My checker tolled me sew. A checker is a bless sing, It freeze yew lodes of thyme. It helps me right awl stiles two reed, And aides me when aye rime. Each frays come posed up on my screen Eye trussed too bee a joule. The checker pours o'er every word To cheque sum spelling rule. Bee fore a veiling checkers Hour spelling mite decline, And if we're lacks oar have a laps, We wood bee maid too wine. Butt now bee cause my spelling Is checked with such grate flare, Their are know faults with in my cite, Of nun eye am a wear. Now spelling does knot phase me, It does knot bring a tier. My pay purrs awl due glad den With wrapped words fare as hear. To rite with care is quite a feet Of witch won should bee proud, And wee mussed dew the best wee can, Sew flaws are knot aloud. Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays Such soft wear four pea seas, And why eye brake in two averse Buy righting want too pleas On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 3:14 PM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Jed sez: OrionWorks wrote: This is obviously a sad, sad story where everyone looses. loses He looses his fateful sword, and she loses her head. (Sorry to make a joke a dreadful situation but it is a good mnemonic device which we sure need with English spelling.) - Jed Once again, caught red-handed falling on the swerd of my spiel checker. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
Umm, my name isnt steven On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 5:30 PM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: Jed Rothwell wrote: thomas malloy wrote: Finally, I believe global warming is thought to produce temperature extremes including colder than normal temperatures in winter. That's why they call it Climate Change, it covers them either way. It only covers them if the climate is, in fact, changing. It has to change in either direction, or in both directions in different seasons. If the average for winter is no colder than it was 50 or 100 years ago, and summer is no warmer, that means they are wrong. The test they face is just as rigorous and easy to verify as it would be if the change is only in one direction, so they are not covered in any sense. That was brilliant Jed. I laughed more at it, than I did at Steven's silly poem. According to Christopher Horner, the AGW advocates have doctored the data to support the warning hypothesis, you OTOH, contend that the warming effect is real . . . Naturally I am assuming that they did not doctor the data. If they did, then the effect is not real. How open minded of you Jed. I may just have to procure a copy of Horner's book just to ascertain the veracity of his claims. However, as I said before, I think it is extremely unlikely that they doctored the data and yet none of the conspirators has revealed that fact. But it has been revealed, Horner's book is but one,of several which make the aforementioned claim. Tens of thousands of people would have to be in on the conspiracy and I think it is impossible for so many people to keep a secret. If the Horner, et al, are correct, there are a few well placed people beating the drum, and a lot of other people cowered into silence. From what I know of human nature I suppose the likelihood of this is zero to 8 or 10 decimal places. I am surprised that you or anyone else takes this hypothesis seriously. IMHO, the truth is right in front of you. If there were only a few dozen people involved in the conspiracy, then it would be plausible that the data has been diddled with. Unless we're right of course, and it's a conspiracy of tens of thousands, done in plain sight. See my next post --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:I told you it was cold
Absolutely. I find it best to shop local produce, and theres a big difference between green farms and organic ones sometimes. There are a lot of alternative labeling systems in place, hopefully a few with a methodology that makes more sense than the organic label become more mainstream. On Fri, Mar 13, 2009 at 7:25 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: Umm, my name isnt steven Ahh, there are so many stevens, stephens, steves, and whatnot in this group that nobody can keep them straight anymore, and I'm not surprised that thomas gets confused and thinks everything's coming from some steph/ven or other I even sometimes find myself paging back to the top of a post from some Stephen or other to check the from: field and find out whether or not I'm the one who wrote it. BTW I appreciated the collection of homonymal errors; tx. And the info on organic pesticides, ditto (tho for different reasons -- it wasn't exactly amusing). I've gotta do a little more research on that one; we eat a lot of green organic stuff here, so if some of the green on the leaves is from, say, Paris, we really want to know.
[Vo]:oddly appropriate comic for this group
http://cowbirdsinlove.com/comics/46/engineer.png
Re: [Vo]:Off topic biological problem
You can adjust it yourself, and there are hot water bacteria that will also grow, which is why its wiser to heat cold tap water than to use hot water from teh taop for drinking and such. On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 5:19 AM, fznidar...@aol.com wrote: My water tank broke about 3 months ago. A new one was put in. After that I noticed what appeared to be bite marks on my legs. Some nights I got 20 or more bites. I thought that bugs came into the apartment while the tank was being installed. Maybe they left the door open. Maybe bed bugs from the next apartment. Yes, thay can live in an upscale neighborhood. Maybe there were bugs in my car or office. I cleaned vacuumed, put out sticky traps, slept on a sticky tape enclosed rubber batter, spread diatomaceous earth around, washed my clothes in bleach and ruined them, put dubble sided sticky tape in a square on the cealing above my bed, and had the exterminator come in. He sprayed the apartment with Stera Fab. The problem persisted. I searched and found no bugs except for a few ear wigs. I even got up at night with a bright flashlight and looked for them. I was tormented. Upon the advice of Ron Anderson, I had the temperature turned up on my hot water tank. The results were immediate. The bite marks went away. Apparently in the combination hot water / heating tanks bacteria can grow if the temperature is set to low. Iron from the failure of the last tank my have contributed to the problem. Maybe there is something going on in Lake Norman. I am now happy again. The water is a bit hot but I’ll leave it go for now. I hope the new tank does not overheat and I will go through the same thing again. If I could open the utility door I could adjust the thing myself. What next? Dont turn down your tank too much. Frank Znidarsic The Average US Credit Score is 692. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
Re: [Vo]:the hell is this? __We're talking about a new field of science that's a hybrid between chemistry and physics.__
To our knowledge, this is the first scientific report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from a LENR device, added the study's co-author in a statement. Really? REALLY really? On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 2:10 AM, Esa Ruoho esaru...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=CNG.a67cf72fe27770f9ec992da18169937d.a1show_article=1 Scientists in possible cold fusion breakthrough Mar 24 11:49 AM US/Eastern Researchers at a US Navy laboratory have unveiled what they say is significant evidence of cold fusion, a potential energy source that has many skeptics in the scientific community. The scientists on Monday described what they called the first clear visual evidence that low-energy nuclear reaction (LENR), or cold fusion devices can produce neutrons, subatomic particles that scientists say are indicative of nuclear reactions. Our finding is very significant, said analytical chemist Pamela Mosier-Boss of the US Navy's Space and Naval Warfare Systems Center (SPAWAR) in San Diego, California. To our knowledge, this is the first scientific report of the production of highly energetic neutrons from a LENR device, added the study's co-author in a statement. The study's results were presented at the annual meeting of the American Chemical Society in Salt Lake City, Utah. The city is also the site of an infamous presentation on cold fusion 20 years ago by Martin Fleishmann and Stanley Pons that sent shockwaves across the world. Despite their claim to cold fusion discovery, the Fleishmann-Pons study soon fell into discredit after other researchers were unable to reproduce the results. Scientists have been working for years to produce cold fusion reactions, a potentially cheap, limitless and environmentally-clean source of energy. Paul Padley, a physicist at Rice University who reviewed Mosier-Boss's published work, said the study did not provide a plausible explanation of how cold fusion could take place in the conditions described. It fails to provide a theoretical rationale to explain how fusion could occur at room temperatures. And in its analysis, the research paper fails to exclude other sources for the production of neutrons, he told the Houston Chronicle. The whole point of fusion is, you?re bringing things of like charge together. As we all know, like things repel, and you have to overcome that repulsion somehow. But Steven Krivit, editor of the New Energy Times, said the study was big and could open a new scientific field. The neutrons produced in the experiments may not be caused by fusion but perhaps some new, unknown nuclear process, added Krivit, who has monitored cold fusion studies for the past 20 years. __We're talking about a new field of science that's a hybrid between chemistry and physics.__ Copyright AFP 2008, AFP stories and photos shall not be published, broadcast, rewritten for broadcast or publication or redistributed directly or indirectly in any medium -- -- a hundred million dollar gamble into alternative energy research in the form of stipends and donations from the worldwide population could completely alter the face of the planet.
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
Darn. so much for my exploding static vortex dust cyclone idea. damn you and your logic! On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 12:23 PM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Jones wrote: Since it was a cordless, there was likely a lithium battery. These batteries have a history of overheating and explosion. Mark S Bilk wrote: Downloading and magnifying the upper photo appears to show that the top visible cell of the battery (still mostly inside the handle) had burst, blowing a hole in the handle. Those cells are pretty small, and if they can power the motor for a while they must contain a substantial amount of chemical energy. An internal short in the cell would rapidly convert all of that energy to heat, turning the electrolyte into very hot, high pressure vapor. If the cell didn't have an overpressure release diaphragm, its metal case would burst like a pipe bomb. A lithium battery letting go makes more sense to me than a dust explosion in the canister. I would have expected a dust explosion to produce cuts and bruises, but not a third degree burn on the hand. A bursting battery right next to the operator's hand, on the other hand, seems much more likely to cause that kind of injury. An extremely brief exposure to burning gas, as in an explosion in the dust canister, would seem very unlikely to burn through the skin of the palm which was probably pressed against the handle at the time, which would in fact likely afford it a certain amount of protection from an explosion 8 or 10 away. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 10:51:34AM -0700, leaking pen wrote: Static buildup, ignition of dust. I've heard of several cases where the static buildup from the cyclone style canister vacs spark and ignite some of the deodorizing powders that have become popular. I got good 5 inch arcs off a vacuum once, so I can believe it. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 8:15 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: LENR? Harry Electrolux vacuum explodes, causing third-degree burns Last Updated: Friday, March 27, 2009 | 10:19 AM ET Comments44Recommend29 CBC News A woman is recovering from third-degree burns to her left palm after the cordless vacuum she was using to clean the stairs in her Richmond, B.C., home exploded in her hands earlier this week... http://www.cbc.ca/consumer/story/2009/03/26/bc-vacuum-burns- electrolux.html
Re: [Vo]:OT: exploding cordless vacuum cleaner
all i can plead is that my work internet filters prevent me from seeing the picture, and i skimmed the article. On Fri, Mar 27, 2009 at 2:44 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to leaking pen's message of Fri, 27 Mar 2009 12:36:58 -0700: Hi, [snip] Darn. so much for my exploding static vortex dust cyclone idea. damn you and your logic! Note also that the casing that holds the batteries has been blown away. This is clearly due to an explosion from within. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Crazy?
Being a young American citizen is a crime now, I suppose. Where have you been? Being a kid has involved a significant lack of the normal human rights you normally get the moment you turn 18 for a LONG while now. and, this has been in the works for FOREVER. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 7:29 AM, Kyle Mcallister kyle_mcallis...@yahoo.com wrote: V, Since there's apparently little to no interest in learning what I found re: the Morton effect, or what I've done/am doing with Laithwaite's inertial propulsion work, or discussing faster than light travel, implications thereof (resistance to in sci-community/effects and/or testability of alternatives to SR/evidence supporting/etc.), constructing a simple LENR heater (still I maintain, we should try), and so forth, here's a bone to chew on. I tried getting away from this, but I felt that since the experiment has apparently died, maybe something else is wanted. You called me crazy when I said, Obama and Co. would salivate over the idea of forcing mandatory service on people. Read this, particularly section 6: http://www.govtrack.us/congress/billtext.xpd?bill=h111-1444 Look up HR 1388 on there as well. And this: http://wizbangblog.com/content/2009/03/27/the-house-giveth-and-the-government-taketh-away-our-freedoms-1.php Ignore the somewhat ridiculous at times right-wing banners and whatnot, but the meat is all there to read, and you can find it from the horse's own mouth. Or is that donkey, given the political asses behind this? Allow me to quote this little thing called the 13th Amendment. It isn't just for blacks. Section 1. Neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for crime where of the party shall have been duly convicted, shall exist within the United States, or any place subject to their jurisdiction. Section 2. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Being a young American citizen is a crime now, I suppose. And pray tell, if as HR1444 states, volunteerism is up, why do we need to even consider making it mandatory (which is unconstitutional and illegal)? Creedence Clearwater Revival got it right: And when you ask them, how much should we give? Oooh, they only answer more! More! More! I will qualify what I am saying for you that say, 'he posts this only out of concern for himself.' Wrong. I am not age eligible for this as proposed, nor would I be required due to my (numerous and increasing) health problems. I am worrying for my family, my friends, my acquaintances, my neighbors, and those I do not even know. Last note for now, what would the bleeding hearts (weren't you guys the same ones supposedly against drafts and such? Peace, flowers, etc.?) say if this had been proposed by a Republican? The only news outlet that /wouldn't/ be trashing it in that case would be Fux. Er... Fox. Sorry. Ahem. They'd be right to trash it too. Regardless of party line, this is wrong. --Kyle V for...Victory?
Re: [Vo]:Crazy?
Americans need to get in line, toe the line, keep quiet, and obey orders. Ohh no no no. No we don't. But being forced to think of other people, and a bit of self discipline would be a good thing. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 9:04 AM, Rhong Dhong rongdon...@yahoo.com wrote: I don't know why people are getting worked up about O's national service proposal: plenty of countries have or have had that. The US had a draft from 1940 to around 1972 and it didn't destroy liberty. Americans need to get in line, toe the line, keep quiet, and obey orders. That sort of discipline would do wonders for them. O's proposal is a step in the right direction.
Re: [Vo]:crazy
Wow. Guys, put the pipes down. Stop the bubbles. Your dealers cut it with some REALLY nasty crap. On Sat, Mar 28, 2009 at 2:40 PM, J. Klum jk...@embarqmail.com wrote: Rhong Dhong wrote: Kyle McAllister Writes: +++ Excuse me. I am in line. I do the best I can... I /TOW/ the line. I pay my taxes...I help people...I give ...We bought...and gave it...I drive...barely make ends meet, and yet I gave... fuck you...Take your discipline,...shove it... +++ You sound like a fine fellow, a disciplined humanitarian; but you have a bad attitude and are making it easy for undisciplined louts to whine about a little national service. O's proposal is a step in the right direction. +++ No it is not. You should read a bit about pre-WWII Germany. +++ I assume you are talking about the HitlerJugend. Boy scouts from what I hear. Got the kids into clean country air, got them to clear brush, live in tents, take responsibility. Just what O wants to do. Stop being part of the problem and start being part of the solution. Funny Fellow Indeed and an all American Name to go with it! Kyle! We all know what is needed and that is to stock the Larder, Stock Pile the Ammo and Block all Entrances. Much to THERE future surprise we do indeed outnumber and will in the end prevail. Risking being placed on one of their lists of (no gooders, ala real Americans) give it up and do the right thing in the background, history prevails that surprise bests advance notice. I stand by you 100% even in the collapsed state of Washington my lawn will flow with fee loaders an thieves when the day of judgment comes.
Re: [Vo]:Yeast powered fuel cell feeds on human blood
well, its not the yeasts waste thats the problem. the human body will deal with dead yeast, alcohol, ketones, and co2 with ease. Its getting the waste out of the fuel cell, and leaving everything else in. On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 10:52 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: Really. See: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16882-yeastpowered-fuel-cell-feeds-on-human-blood.html It produces ~40 nanowatts which is enough for things like pacemakers. This is actually a good idea. If the device lasts for a long time it will have all of the advantages of a low power implanted cold fusion device. For high power applications such as heart pumps (VAD) and prosthetic arms, a cold fusion device would probably be better. Although, come to think of it, chemical fuel in the body powers natural heart tissue so that should be enough to power a mechanical heart pump. They have not solved the problem of removing the yeast's waste products. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Yeast powered fuel cell feeds on human blood
at certain points, such as working anaerobically, there is a massive slowdown on reproduction, but they DO keep working just to eat and excrete. also, genetic manipulation to furth reduce, as well as to shorten lifespan before existing cells die. On Thu, Apr 2, 2009 at 11:06 AM, Edmund Storms stor...@ix.netcom.com wrote: How about figuring out how to get rid of all the new yeast cells that they will produce. Yeasts to no work just to make energy. They work to make more of their own kind. Maybe if the Church permits, micro condoms could be used. Ed On Apr 2, 2009, at 11:52 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: Really. See: http://www.newscientist.com/article/dn16882-yeastpowered-fuel-cell-feeds-on-human-blood.html It produces ~40 nanowatts which is enough for things like pacemakers. This is actually a good idea. If the device lasts for a long time it will have all of the advantages of a low power implanted cold fusion device. For high power applications such as heart pumps (VAD) and prosthetic arms, a cold fusion device would probably be better. Although, come to think of it, chemical fuel in the body powers natural heart tissue so that should be enough to power a mechanical heart pump. They have not solved the problem of removing the yeast's waste products. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:OFF TOPIC Real time bus schedule
I know the bus system here in phoenix has been equipped with gps for a while. one of the uses is an automated, you are approaching X street announcement over the pa system that tags when you reach certain spots. THEY have the live tracking, but they havent given it publicly. sigh. On Tue, Apr 14, 2009 at 2:33 PM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: My daughter who lives in Boston sent me this link to a local bus company that shows where its buses are in real time, on the map: http://masco.transloc.com/ This is the kind of thing that could have been done years ago but no one thought to do it. In retrospect it is an obvious application of internet and GPS technology: easy and cheap to implement and useful to the customers. I expect the bus company has been tracking its drivers for a long time, although I was surprised to find the other day that a local FedEx truck was not equipped with a GPS map. Many technical problems can be solved more easily than people realize. Often the hardest part is to convince people to try something new. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear
Umm, thats been known since biosphere 2 days. They did several experiments that showed that, but also showed that plants, especially trees, grew taller but skinner, more knotted (bad for the logging industry!) and that other plants grew at weird rates as well, and that it generally caused havoc. On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 9:39 AM, Jones Beene jone...@pacbell.net wrote: http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=EN_NEWSACTION=DSESSION=RCN=30717 New research from Switzerland and the UK reveals that, somewhat paradoxically, plants absorb more carbon dioxide (CO2) when the atmosphere is polluted than they do under cleaner skies. OK that is the finding. Now for the spin. You can imagine that the word coming from the oil-patch (bush-patch?) is YES! just what we have been saying all along, and furthermore, now that know that CO2 is a good thing for nature and for increasing the growth of biomass, and that the cleaner the skies, the less nature can use CO2 - then full speed ahead with maximum carbon but without any emission controls. However, that is 'spin' not logic. But - LOL - the same scientists who found the link, are trying to put a totally different spin on it. Writing in the journal 'Nature', the scientists warn that as air pollution levels continue to decline, even steeper greenhouse gas emissions cuts will be needed to stabilize the climate. Huh? Whoa. You have to use your imagination to fathom how this double negative makes sense, but their explanation is not so far-fetched and 'apologetic' as it may at first seem: Plants rely on the sun to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. Although it seems counter-intuitive, plants actually absorb CO2 more efficiently under hazy sunlight than they do under bright, direct sunlight. When exposed to direct sunlight, the leaves at the top of the plant canopy get more sunlight than they can use, and go into a defensive mode, while leaves in the shade do not get enough. However, when clouds and minute particles of pollution scatter the light, leaves lower down on the canopy get comparatively more light than in the previous case. As a result, plants absorb CO2 more effectively in diffuse light than in direct light. But the ideal situation, from the biomass perspective is not necessarily to limit CO2 Doh, reducing carbon emissions reduces the CO2 that plants need. And the 'greenhouse' effect can now be appreciated to be due almost exclusively to the other problems - methane and especially halogens. BUT- 'global dimming' due to particulates, has reduced the net greenhouse effect in the recent past, and if we eliminate particulates, that will increase the net greenhouse effect. Confused yet? The scientists seem to be saying that you either must release dirty CO2 or none at all. Well, that is not quite true - but it highlights the huge grey area we are dealing with in these discussions. If you are not confused yet, IMHO - then you are not thinking responsibly. Al Gore is NOT thinking responsibly, NOR are his critics. Now for the good spin - the free-spin of valid alternatives. The is one and only one course of action that makes sense.Both camps are misguided - and any rush to judgment is foolish; and yet there is one window of opportunity that gets us where we need to be in ten years. That is- aside from the obvious: which is adding solar and wind to the extent that we can afford to buy those very high-priced solutions. The only neglected solution IMHO is to take all of the billion$$ that we want and intend to throw at so-called CO2 sequestration, carbon credits, carbon taxes, etc - and shift that into RD for LENR, hydrino tech, ZPE tech, including magnetic energy and even anti-gravity. These fringe-facets are the ugly stepchild of scince because often they combine more art, intuition, trial-and error, and fringe theory than real' science permits. But real scicence has failed us. Give the fringe a chance, and my intuition tells me that success will be forthcoming. We simply do NOT know enough now to say that CO2 is the real culprit, nor that reducing it is the complete answer; but everyone agrees that new energy technology which does not depend on CO2, but promises to be one-fourth to half the cost per kWhr delivered compared to solar or wind - that is the way to go with the billions allocated for CO2 reduction (which will not help anyway). So why are we waiting? Political inertia. We still do NOT have a Director of ARPA-E ! nor has any of that all-important seed money for risky RD gone out to people who can use it. IOW -take the ARPA-E philosophy - which is a great idea on paper but still is not realized, due to foot-dragging and multiply it by all of the dollars that would be wasted in CO2 sequestration, carbon credits and other nonsense. Forget carbon. Carbon is not the enemy, or at least has not been proved to be anywhere near the problem that the
Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear
The thing is, we are ALREADY doing something. If we want to do nothing, then we cut all manmade co2 sources instantly. doing SOMETHING is doing just what we are doing already. On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: It appears from your analysis that the earth has more self regulating capability than most experts give it credit for. Further, it seems to me that it will be better to observe and collect more data for a while instead of rushing off to do something. Better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing, especially if that wrong thing is massively expensive. Misguided, high priced environmental repairs could collapse an already weakened world economy. Jeff -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:40 PM To: vortex Subject: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=EN_NEWSACTION=DSESSION=RCN=30717 New research from Switzerland and the UK reveals that, somewhat paradoxically, plants absorb more carbon dioxide (CO2) when the atmosphere is polluted than they do under cleaner skies. OK that is the finding. Now for the spin. You can imagine that the word coming from the oil-patch (bush-patch?) is YES! just what we have been saying all along, and furthermore, now that know that CO2 is a good thing for nature and for increasing the growth of biomass, and that the cleaner the skies, the less nature can use CO2 - then full speed ahead with maximum carbon but without any emission controls. However, that is 'spin' not logic. But - LOL - the same scientists who found the link, are trying to put a totally different spin on it. Writing in the journal 'Nature', the scientists warn that as air pollution levels continue to decline, even steeper greenhouse gas emissions cuts will be needed to stabilize the climate. Huh? Whoa. You have to use your imagination to fathom how this double negative makes sense, but their explanation is not so far-fetched and 'apologetic' as it may at first seem: Plants rely on the sun to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. Although it seems counter-intuitive, plants actually absorb CO2 more efficiently under hazy sunlight than they do under bright, direct sunlight. When exposed to direct sunlight, the leaves at the top of the plant canopy get more sunlight than they can use, and go into a defensive mode, while leaves in the shade do not get enough. However, when clouds and minute particles of pollution scatter the light, leaves lower down on the canopy get comparatively more light than in the previous case. As a result, plants absorb CO2 more effectively in diffuse light than in direct light. But the ideal situation, from the biomass perspective is not necessarily to limit CO2 Doh, reducing carbon emissions reduces the CO2 that plants need. And the 'greenhouse' effect can now be appreciated to be due almost exclusively to the other problems - methane and especially halogens. BUT- 'global dimming' due to particulates, has reduced the net greenhouse effect in the recent past, and if we eliminate particulates, that will increase the net greenhouse effect. Confused yet? The scientists seem to be saying that you either must release dirty CO2 or none at all. Well, that is not quite true - but it highlights the huge grey area we are dealing with in these discussions. If you are not confused yet, IMHO - then you are not thinking responsibly. Al Gore is NOT thinking responsibly, NOR are his critics. Now for the good spin - the free-spin of valid alternatives. The is one and only one course of action that makes sense.Both camps are misguided - and any rush to judgment is foolish; and yet there is one window of opportunity that gets us where we need to be in ten years. That is- aside from the obvious: which is adding solar and wind to the extent that we can afford to buy those very high-priced solutions. The only neglected solution IMHO is to take all of the billion$$ that we want and intend to throw at so-called CO2 sequestration, carbon credits, carbon taxes, etc - and shift that into RD for LENR, hydrino tech, ZPE tech, including magnetic energy and even anti-gravity. These fringe-facets are the ugly stepchild of scince because often they combine more art, intuition, trial-and error, and fringe theory than real' science permits. But real scicence has failed us. Give the fringe a chance, and my intuition tells me that success will be forthcoming. We simply do NOT know enough now to say that CO2 is the real culprit, nor that reducing it is the complete answer; but everyone agrees that new energy technology which does not depend on CO2, but promises to be one-fourth to half the cost per kWhr delivered compared to solar or wind - that is the way to go with the billions allocated for CO2 reduction (which will not help anyway). So why are we waiting? Political inertia. We still do NOT
Re: [Vo]:Extinct creature still alive?
trilos didnt have the tail looks like a tadpole shrimp to me http://www.caver.net/shrimp.html On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 8:21 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: Hi, This looks to my untrained eye like a Trilobite. http://english.pravda.ru/img/idb/photo/3-1323.jpg (see also http://english.pravda.ru/photo/report/creature-2804/1/) Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear
See, theres a big difference between crippling, and causing them to not make as big of a profit. (remember, this is the industry that has made new record profits every quarter for the past several years. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 5:20 AM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: I'm all for replacing fossil fuel powered machines with equal or superior nonpolluting alternatives. So far, nothing but nuclear comes close. All I am saying is, don't shut down, dismantle, or otherwise cripple the fossil fuel industry until a viable alternative is commercially available. Solar and wind are obviously not it for numerous reasons already posted on this forum. I really hope LENR will solve the problem, and I hope it is soon. Jeff -Original Message- From: Edmund Storms [mailto:stor...@ix.netcom.com] Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:59 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Cc: Edmund Storms Subject: Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear You and many people Jeff, miss an important issue about finding ways to reduce CO2 emission. Yes it is expensive, but so are all changes in technology. The expense issue is only a distraction raised by industries that will be harmed by the new technology. In contrast, the general population always benefits from such efforts because more jobs are created and energy becomes cheaper. Unless you are the owner of an oil, gas or coal company, your self interest requires you to support any effort to develop any new energy source, but especially ones that do not generate CO2 regardless of the cost. The cost will eventually be recovered from the energy generated by the new technology. Meanwhile, you or your friends would have a job that otherwise might not be available. Also, when CO2 is removed from the gas leaving a coal plant, so is mercury and uranium, which is a benefit to your health. You need to look past the propaganda generated by the energy industries that would lose profits. Ed On Apr 25, 2009, at 11:35 AM, Jeff Fink wrote: It appears from your analysis that the earth has more self regulating capability than most experts give it credit for. Further, it seems to me that it will be better to observe and collect more data for a while instead of rushing off to do something. Better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing, especially if that wrong thing is massively expensive. Misguided, high priced environmental repairs could collapse an already weakened world economy. Jeff -Original Message- From: Jones Beene [mailto:jone...@pacbell.net] Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 12:40 PM To: vortex Subject: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear http://cordis.europa.eu/fetch?CALLER=EN_NEWSACTION=DSESSION=RCN=30717 New research from Switzerland and the UK reveals that, somewhat paradoxically, plants absorb more carbon dioxide (CO2) when the atmosphere is polluted than they do under cleaner skies. OK that is the finding. Now for the spin. You can imagine that the word coming from the oil-patch (bush- patch?) is YES! just what we have been saying all along, and furthermore, now that know that CO2 is a good thing for nature and for increasing the growth of biomass, and that the cleaner the skies, the less nature can use CO2 - then full speed ahead with maximum carbon but without any emission controls. However, that is 'spin' not logic. But - LOL - the same scientists who found the link, are trying to put a totally different spin on it. Writing in the journal 'Nature', the scientists warn that as air pollution levels continue to decline, even steeper greenhouse gas emissions cuts will be needed to stabilize the climate. Huh? Whoa. You have to use your imagination to fathom how this double negative makes sense, but their explanation is not so far-fetched and 'apologetic' as it may at first seem: Plants rely on the sun to absorb CO2 from the atmosphere. Although it seems counter-intuitive, plants actually absorb CO2 more efficiently under hazy sunlight than they do under bright, direct sunlight. When exposed to direct sunlight, the leaves at the top of the plant canopy get more sunlight than they can use, and go into a defensive mode, while leaves in the shade do not get enough. However, when clouds and minute particles of pollution scatter the light, leaves lower down on the canopy get comparatively more light than in the previous case. As a result, plants absorb CO2 more effectively in diffuse light than in direct light. But the ideal situation, from the biomass perspective is not necessarily to limit CO2 Doh, reducing carbon emissions reduces the CO2 that plants need. And the 'greenhouse' effect can now be appreciated to be due almost exclusively to the other problems - methane and especially halogens. BUT- 'global dimming' due to particulates, has reduced the net greenhouse effect in the recent past, and if we eliminate particulates, that will increase the net greenhouse
Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear
No, i speak of cutting to zero sarcastically. I used it to make a point that doing NOTHING is just that, doing NOTHING, and that we are already doing something by producing co2, so your statement of, we should do nothing is meaningless. Its like saying, we are all rowing our boat down river, someone says, ohh, i think we are approaching a waterfall! We should slow down to see before we go over the edge. And you would be the dude saying, no, full speed ahead, don't be crazy. Seriously, you actually took my statement as meaning i think we SHOULD cut to zero? You need to work on your reading comprehension, and learn not to grab onto the one statement you think you can argue against without actually, say, READING it. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 5:10 AM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: What I mean by do nothing is leave the CO2 production rates as they are. You talk of cutting man made CO2 to zero like it is possible and desirable. You are literally saying that doing nothing is contributing no manmade CO2 to the environment which means the extinction of the human race! No fossil fueled power plants, no cooking fires to support the resulting cave man existence, and finally, no breathing. I used to think like this back in junior high school, that the biggest problem on earth is people, and that if we eliminate all people the planet would be perfect. I outgrew those thoughts. Jeff -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] Sent: Saturday, April 25, 2009 1:47 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear The thing is, we are ALREADY doing something. If we want to do nothing, then we cut all manmade co2 sources instantly. doing SOMETHING is doing just what we are doing already. On Sat, Apr 25, 2009 at 10:35 AM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: It appears from your analysis that the earth has more self regulating capability than most experts give it credit for. Further, it seems to me that it will be better to observe and collect more data for a while instead of rushing off to do something. Better to do nothing than to do the wrong thing, especially if that wrong thing is massively expensive. Misguided, high priced environmental repairs could collapse an already weakened world economy. Jeff
Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear
No, its to avoid putting additional co2 and other such chemicals into the environment. the algae is all gas that has been removed from the environment. nice cycle. Remember, those of use that actually use logic know that a single approach will not work. On Sun, Apr 26, 2009 at 10:51 PM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: - Original Message - From: mix...@bigpond.com Date: Monday, April 27, 2009 0:57 am Subject: Re: [Vo]:Not what Algore wanted to hear In reply to Harry Veeder's message of Sun, 26 Apr 2009 23:45:08 - 0400:Hi, [snip] If you want a reliable and continous supply of power, solar and wind will not give you that unless you can figure out how to store the generated power cost effectively. [snip] As already discussed frequently on this list, solar can be captured and stored using algae. This is essentially what we are already using when we burn coal. We would just be shortening the cycle time from millions of years to months. While wind and solar don't actually supply continuous electric power, they are also not as bad as you might think. To start with wind may be variable, but if connected to a continent wide grid, then the wind is always blowing somewhere,which helps to reduce the size of the bumps and hollows. Solar would supply direct power only during the day, but then that is also when most power is needed. At night, energy stored in the form of biomass could supplement that supplied by wind, to ensure a continuous supply. Furthermore, as I have also pointed out in the past, it should prove both feasible and cheap to store energy as heat underground in molten salt. At the temperature at which common table salt melts, the Carnot efficiency could be as high as 62%. This could provide a means of storing solar energy through the night at a cost up to 1000 times less than that of lead-acid batteries.If the solar energy is collected in a desert where there is very little cloud cover from day to day, then storage for much more than a day would be unnecessary, particularly if multiple solar plants contributed, that were geographically widely distributed. Then there are also other clean power sources that can contribute during the night - hydro, tidal, geothermal. In short, by utilizing an effective mix of different clean sources, a reliable power supply can be achieved, without fossil fuels, if we really wanted to. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk Isn't the point of adopting solar and wind power to avoid burning combustibles? Growing a biomass like algae as a source of fuel seems to defeat this. On the other hand if we eat the algae... harry
Re: [Vo]:[OT] H1N1 Synchronicity
So, the so called swine flu may just be spanish flu? the puerco flu? On Tue, Apr 28, 2009 at 9:00 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: An interactive article on the current outbreak of H1N1 and the virus' impact in 1918: http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/interactive/2008/jan/03/flu And for the conspiricist minded: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Sykes Exhumation for biological research In 2007, nearly 90 years after Sir Mark Sykes died, all the living descendants gave their permission to exhume his body for scientific investigation headed by virologist, Prof John Oxford. His remains were exhumed in mid-September 2008[3]. His remains were of interest because he had been buried in a lead-lined coffin, and this was thought likely to have preserved Spanish Flu viral particles intact. Any samples taken are to be used for research in the quest to develop defences against the next flu pandemic, which some scientists[who?] believe is likely to flare up at some stage in the future as a mutation of the bird flu virus named H5N1. The Spanish Flu virus itself became a human infection by a mutation of an avian virus nowadays called H1N1. There are only five other extant samples of the Spanish Flu virus. Prof Oxford's team were expecting to find a well preserved cadaver.[4] However, the lead lined coffin was found to be split because of the weight of soil over it, and the cadaver was found to be badly decomposed. Nonetheless, samples of lung and brain tissue were taken through the split in the coffin, with the coffin remaining in situ in the grave during this process.[5]Soon afterwards, the open grave was sealed again by refilling it with earth. You must admit, it would solve the unemployment problem. Terry
Re: FW: [Vo]:[OT] H1N1 Synchronicity
WOOT! I for one think that the immigration and naturalization act was the biggest stain on the face of our constitution and declaration to ever be passed as law. My mother immigrated legally from canada, my fathers family came over before it WAS the united states, and they just, came. no legal or illegal about it. So many others came through ellis island where you told your name, drew an x, and boom, you're an American. That is how we are SUPPOSED to be. No racism, religionism, favoritism, paperwork, quotas and limits. Come be an American, chase that dream, live the good life! ALL men are created equal motherfuckers, not just the ones that got here before we decided to bar the door and man the gates. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:22 PM, grok g...@resist.ca wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net mounted the barricade and roared out: I have a friend Jozef from Slovakia back when it was Czechoslovakia. He was in med school intending to be a doctor. He ran afoul of the communist government on faith issues, was removed from med school and assigned to be an X-ray technician (no freedom of choice here). That may not sound too bad to some people on this forum, but what you don't know is that, at that time, eastern European facilities used no shielding: X-ray technician was a death sentence. (Isn't communism wonderful?) Soon after, he escaped to freedom in the US where he could be what he wanted. First thing: this was not communism, or even socialism. It was what we call _stalinism_, for want of a better word. Second thing: I think your friend is a liar. By the way, he immigrated legally. Jeff What, like cuban boat people, or pro-U.S. terrorists? Pfft. FUCK bourgeois legality. I'd help a mexican sneak over the U.S. border ANY day. And twice on sundays. Having been an illegal alien myself, for that matter. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkn6MqIACgkQXo3EtEYbt3GQ3ACgqBVSySa4uBjEBMxbQP2oJBZH Bo0AoJAZ3NN/pBgA3JdQhOf8N+VjPqyF =uEHB -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:LENR-CANR and CBS video offline
Indeed, if they popped it on a server for lesser videos, and it got more popular than they intended, that could cause it to stop working for a while. On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 7:23 AM, Jed Rothwell jedrothw...@gmail.com wrote: My ISP lost my e-mail address and credit card number, and then pulled LENR-CANR.org off-line today because the bill was 30 days overdue. I suggested they should have looked at the front page of the web site because it has my name, phone number and e-mail address. Very annoying! It should be back on line momentarily. More ominously, the CBS news site showing the cold fusion segment does not work. This could be a technical problem because the site is still there, but it does not play: http://www.cbsnews.com/video/watch/?id=4955212n This site says the video disappeared even though it was popular: http://sitfu.blogspot.com/2009/04/cbs-censors-cold-fusion-video-was.html CBS Censors Cold Fusion Video - Was Fourth Most Popular Dear friends, The highly revealing 12-minute video clip from 60 Minutes on the fascinating resurgence of cold fusion I mentioned in a message yesterday has now been removed by CBS. I highly suspect media censorship at work here. A supporter emailed to tell me that the embedded video from an article I had posted on this at examiner.com was not working. Checking back on my original links to the video revealed that a weak clip of less than two-minutes had replaced the engaging, longer original. After some careful research, I discovered that the 12-minute video had moved up to the fourth most popular on the entire CBS website. Following the link on the CBS video page in the Most Viewed Videos section at the bottom, I found that though there were 70 comments posted under the video, it no longer functioned. I suspect someone didn't want us to see that video. What other reason would there be to censor this powerful clip? For more on this, see the informative article I posted here. Please take advantage of the power of the Internet to spread the word, so that we can break through this kind of censorship. . . . I suspect this person is wrong, because if the MIB did not want us to see it, they would not leave the non-functioning screen. Earlier, Steve Krivit reported that the video has been altered: http://newenergytimes.com/v2/blog/?p=74 'We asked the American Physical Society, the top physics organization in America, to recommend an independent scientist,' the narrator said. 'They gave us Rob Duncan.' The sentence referring to the American Physical Society has been removed from the video and replaced with the following text, 'We asked another distinguished physicist to have a look at the research.' There were no other apparent changes to the video. - Jed
Re: FW: [Vo]:[OT] H1N1 Synchronicity
Because we make it a living hell for them, so they make some money, head back, and then try to use that money t buck the system and get in legally. On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 9:05 AM, Harry Veeder hvee...@ncf.ca wrote: I think what troubles many Americans on a deeper level is why some immigrants don't stay. ;-) Harry - Original Message - From: leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com Date: Friday, May 1, 2009 8:26 am Subject: Re: FW: [Vo]:[OT] H1N1 Synchronicity WOOT! I for one think that the immigration and naturalization act was the biggest stain on the face of our constitution and declaration to ever be passed as law. My mother immigrated legally from canada, my fathers family came over before it WAS the united states, and they just, came. no legal or illegal about it. So many others came through ellis island where you told your name, drew an x, and boom, you're an American. That is how we are SUPPOSED to be. No racism, religionism, favoritism, paperwork, quotas and limits. Come be an American, chase that dream, live the good life! ALL men are created equal motherfuckers, not just the ones that got here before we decided to bar the door and man the gates. On Thu, Apr 30, 2009 at 4:22 PM, grok g...@resist.ca wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net mounted the barricade and roared out: I have a friend Jozef from Slovakia back when it was Czechoslovakia. He was in med school intending to be a doctor. He ran afoul of the communist government on faith issues, was removed from med school and assigned to be an X-ray technician (no freedom of choice here). That may not sound too bad to some people on this forum, but what you don't know is that, at that time, eastern European facilities used no shielding: X-ray technician was a death sentence. (Isn't communism wonderful?) Soon after, he escaped to freedom in the US where he could be what he wanted. First thing: this was not communism, or even socialism. It was what we call _stalinism_, for want of a better word. Second thing: I think your friend is a liar. By the way, he immigrated legally. Jeff What, like cuban boat people, or pro-U.S. terrorists? Pfft. FUCK bourgeois legality. I'd help a mexican sneak over the U.S. border ANY day. And twice on sundays. Having been an illegal alien myself, for that matter. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkn6MqIACgkQXo3EtEYbt3GQ3ACgqBVSySa4uBjEBMxbQP2oJBZH Bo0AoJAZ3NN/pBgA3JdQhOf8N+VjPqyF =uEHB -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:[OT] H1N1 Synchronicity
I think hes SHOWING you the answer. But he has a good point. just what does that have to do with the price of tea in china? On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 1:31 PM, albedo5 albe...@gmail.com wrote: Are you truly incapable of answering a simple question, grok? Inquiring minds wanna know now. On Fri, May 1, 2009 at 4:25 PM, grok g...@resist.ca wrote: -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 As the smoke cleared, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com mounted the barricade and roared out: You sure don't sound like a very happy person to me. Perhaps it explains why you have dodged the previous question: What makes you happy, Grok? What really IS amazing is how you people consistently dodge the very real issue of the pseudo-democracies known as the U.S.A./NATO having become pretty much full-fledge police states. The ad hominem tack you invariably resort to, instead, is really kinda pathetically ludicrous. It's a shame OU and CF et al. are all tied up in politix (and will be, for the interim). That fact makes these exchanges pretty nigh unavoidable. Anywhere there's real and honest debate, that is. - -- grok. - -- Build the North America-wide General Strike. TODO el poder a los consejos y las comunas. TOUT le pouvoir aux conseils et communes. ALL power to the councils and communes. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkn7WqIACgkQXo3EtEYbt3H2iQCgoYFAnsrVQjMgMVgk4hPI8x/l Lp8AoOYoXqaBT6FAQUH/Y55OK9VV4N9F =/AhK -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go?
try searching cyanoacrylate accelerator On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 10:46 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: A couple decades ago I was, for a brief time, a (not very good) hardware design engineer. In the lab, we used cyanoacrylate to glue parts to boards, and we used spray bottles of activator to harden the stuff. And so I learned that Krazy glue and related products, which normally only stick well to fingers, can be made to stick where and when you want them to, if you just use a spritz of activator on it. After that little epiphany, I purchased cyanoacrylate at the local Radio Shack a number of times, and always got hardener with it. Later I purchased some at a hardware store, and again got the hardener with it. The stuff was great; it would stick, no questions asked, to just about anything -- as long as one used the activator. Then a few years went by during which I didn't buy the stuff -- didn't do any projects which needed it, hadn't used up the old stock. And one day I went to the local hardware store and looked for cyanoacrylate with hardener. No luck -- none on the shelves. I asked a clerk; he'd *never* *heard* of hardener for cyanoacrylate! (Of course that just means they hadn't carried it any time in the last couple months, but none the less it was a bit startling.) Later I checked Radio Shack. Same deal -- no hardener, clerks had never heard of the stuff. Hardener is for epoxy, that's all they knew about. I've looked in other stores since; it's always the same. They don't carry it and as far as they know, there is no such thing, and never was. Somebody seems to have erased cyanoacrylate activator from the page of time. Anybody here know what happened? Why'd it get pulled from the market? Does the stuff turn out to make your head swell up and turn purple or something? Or can you get high off of it? (Or have I just been unlucky in 5 out of 5 stores I've tried, and the stuff really is still on the shelves *somewhere*?)
Re: [Vo]:[OT] Cyanoacrylate activator: Where did it go?
hunh. I've seen it at craft stores, but not hardware. On Wed, May 13, 2009 at 11:17 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: try searching cyanoacrylate accelerator Sigh... OK, yes, I should have done that to start with. Actually I rather hoped there was some interesting tale behind the disappearance which someone here would know. So it appears the stuff is still available mail order, from some places -- but why'd it disappear from retail store shelves? 20 years ago it was in the glue section of every hardware store I shopped in. It certainly seems like something happened and I still don't know what. Quote from one page: I finally ran out of Zip Kicker and the hobby shop I purchased it from originally is long gone. All the local hobby shops fail to carry it as well. No explanation, and none of the replies mentioned any explanation; just a statement of what I've already observed. And, I should add, a lot of alternatives for use as accelerators were mentioned, including baking soda and white glue, which I didn't know about. Useful info, maybe.
Re: [Vo]:send Bill B some money for putting up with a lot
Perhaps we remove vob and just institute a swear jar type thing. a buck fee for starting an ot post, a quarter per post you make within such a thread. On Thu, May 21, 2009 at 11:15 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: Good call, Frank. - Rick I would agree. Sometimes I wish Mr. Beaty was less modest about these matters and would send out a friendly reminder/suggestion, perhaps at the beginning of each year. There's nothing wrong with telling the Vort Collective that it costs money (presumably mostly Bill's money) to keep the service going. I just got paid today. Time for me to pay my rant money. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE
Reminds me of my thoughts the first time I was introduced to superstring theory. the expanding contracting strings sure sounded to me as the 3 from 4 dimensional equivilant to cutting a chord across a 3 dimensional wave form, and as the wave moves, getting shrinking and contracting lines on your 2 cut. On Fri, May 22, 2009 at 9:17 AM, Mauro Lacy ma...@lacy.com.ar wrote: Jones Beene wrote: All this talk about ESP and its possible scientific basis -- got me thinking about the “z-word” once again. Not to mention how hard it is to separate the pursuit of free energy from less divine pursuits (depending on one’s z-orientation, of course) Caveat: Lethal Text follows... meaning that it usually confounds non-believers… …and/or … “what you don't know can't skill you” “Back in the day” I could remember how to pronounce “zitterbewegung”. Not any more, much less spell it. It is almost “lethal text” and everytime the word pops into consciousness, I feel compelled to consult the internet (and spell checker). You can, of course, take the implications of the z-word to extremes. For instance – that a “modulation of z” can transfer info and supply a very provocative answer to many theological questions. It’s almost like- “in the beginning was the word, and the word was… you know: “zitterbewegung”. That one is kinda hard to get into Hebrew, so they changed it to a few consonants. Perhaps that is another reason for the “addiction” of “free energy” and for trying to accomplish what the Grand Poobahs of fissix tell us is an impossible goal. This time, when the wider implications of ZPE came to mind, an old mini-essay on LT also popped-up in connection with the word and it mentioned “lethal text” which is like a forbidden-fruit kind of thing... you know, cosmic foaming at the mouth - but its what they call ZPE in them ivory towers and if there is such a thing as modulated zitterbewegung (aether-conditioning so-to-speak) then it may be the driving force for finding free-energy in two very different ways – one of which has ‘information transfer from afar’ overtones. Side Note: As for what are the wider implications of lethal text - in Piers Anthony's story - Macroscope, an alien message destroys the mind of anyone intelligent enough to understand it- no doubt that it contained the z-word. All of which was kind of a take-off on Sir ACC’s infamous earworm from a short story called The Ultimate Melody. Neal Stephenson's Snow Crash has the LT show up in broadband as a computer virus. The most famous version – that is, outside the Bible (where we find the original LT (i.e. YHWH)… that probably goes back to the Sirens' song of the old Odyssey, not to be confused with the remake A Space Odyssey and the five notes you will never forget: zit...err..be...we...gung? At least in the good-book you were once no-vowelly protected from a lethal dose. Anyway, in one of his most widely read essays (both short and 'pregnant'), Hal Puthoff opines that Gravity can be understood as a kind of long-range Casimir force. This kind of ties into the notion to how it is that YHWH could whisper little secrets in W’s ear about WMD, and also the apprehension that when we finally do harness ZPE for free energy, there will be a cost. (hell to pay??) Some of this goes back to the ruskie H-bomb man, physicist Andrei Sakharov, who put forward the radical hypothesis that gravity might not be a fundamental interaction at all, but is another form of resonant aether-conditioning so-to-speak. If gravity is a secondary or residual effect associated with other the EM field and with interdimensional effects, then the ZPE connection is somewhat easier to understand. If correct, gravity would then be understood as just another variation on the Casimir theme, in which background zero-point-energy pressures were again responsible, and with implications for “information transfer”. Anyway, the z-approach to gravity was addressed by Puthoff by showing that every particle is situated in the sea of electromagnetic zero-point fluctuations develops this jitter motion; and when there are two or more particles they are each influenced not only by the fluctuating background field, but also by the fields generated by the other particles, all similarly undergoing a contact-high of epo-moderated motion, add the inter-particle coupling and a measure of large scale asymmetry brought on by curvature… …and voila – there you have it: the zed-connection and its ubiquitous signature - not exactly the mark of Zorro but the ultraviolet glow of foamy cosmic glue. That's wonderful, Jones. Thank you for all those literary, musical, and scientific references. Zitterbewegung, the observed oscilation or modulation between interacting positive and negative particles, can be again some kind of interference pattern between these hyperdimensionally rotating vortexes we commonly call particles, which are rotating over
Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
Umm, if we are talking nanometer distances... water is, due to naturally h+ and oh - dissasociation, going to have pockets of charge. mighten they not be moving towards each other, but towards the same patch of water? On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 8:57 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/04/does-dna-have-t.html Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties? DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn't be able to. Explanation: None, at least not yet. Scientists are reporting evidence that contrary to our current beliefs about what is possible, intact double-stranded DNA has the “amazing” ability to recognize similarities in other DNA strands from a distance. Somehow they are able to identify one another, and the tiny bits of genetic material tend to congregate with similar DNA. The recognition of similar sequences in DNA’s chemical subunits, occurs in a way unrecognized by science. There is no known reason why the DNA is able to combine the way it does, and from a current theoretical standpoint this feat should be chemically impossible. Even so, the research published in ACS’ Journal of Physical Chemistry B, shows very clearly that homology recognition between sequences of several hundred nucleotides occurs without physical contact or presence of proteins. Double helixes of DNA can recognize matching molecules from a distance and then gather together, all seemingly without help from any other molecules or chemical signals. In the study, scientists observed the behavior of fluorescently tagged DNA strands placed in water that contained no proteins or other material that could interfere with the experiment. Strands with identical nucleotide sequences were about twice as likely to gather together as DNA strands with different sequences. No one knows how individual DNA strands could possibly be communicating in this way, yet somehow they do. The “telepathic” effect is a source of wonder and amazement for scientists. “Amazingly, the forces responsible for the sequence recognition can reach across more than one nanometer of water separating the surfaces of the nearest neighbor DNA,” said the authors Geoff S. Baldwin, Sergey Leikin, John M. Seddon, and Alexei A. Kornyshev and colleagues. This recognition effect may help increase the accuracy and efficiency of the homologous recombination of genes, which is a process responsible for DNA repair, evolution, and genetic diversity. The new findings may also shed light on ways to avoid recombination errors, which are factors in cancer, aging, and other health issues. end
Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
Exactly. the more i think of it, the more i wonder also... a lot of dna movement in liquids , the charge and polarity, is based on the final few bps on each end. I wonder if same bp ends but different strands would end up together... that or size in general. you know, the same thing that makes western blots work. On Sat, May 23, 2009 at 10:08 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to leaking pen's message of Sat, 23 May 2009 10:15:40 -0700: Hi, I think you are almost on the right track. There was recently a demonstration of how water molecules could align with one another to a depth of hundreds of thousands of molecules away from a surface. In so doing they form a dielectric layer(*) that has the effect of communicating the charge from one side to the other. The implication is that the charge pattern along the DNA strand would be thus communicated and the strands most likely to be attracted, would be those with the closest matching opposite charges IOW with the matching pattern. * In a capacitor, the presence of a dielectric effectively reduces the distance between the plates. Umm, if we are talking nanometer distances... water is, due to naturally h+ and oh - dissasociation, going to have pockets of charge. mighten they not be moving towards each other, but towards the same patch of water? [snip] Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html
Re: [Vo]:Zitter and ZPE
its not just genetic inability to mate. its also social. For example, bobcats will and still sometimes DO sucessfully mate with housecats with non mule offspring. but they generally do not, from a social standpoint. Darwins finches that speciated apart did so in large part not because of genetics, but because as they found different niches to feed in from teh changing bills, they simply were in different areas of the islands. Mud stabbing bug eaters just never associated with wide billed nutcrackers. doesn't meant that if you artifically changed their environments they COULDN'T possibly end up mating, they just don't. On Tue, May 26, 2009 at 3:14 AM, Horace Heffner hheff...@mtaonline.net wrote: On May 24, 2009, at 2:07 PM, mix...@bigpond.com wrote: In reply to Horace Heffner's message of Sun, 24 May 2009 01:03:41 -0800: Hi, [snip] The distinguishing characteristic is the inability to mate with the parents, or at least with some of the animals the parents can mate with, which can be due to a genetic characteristic that does not manifest in a visible way. Agreed this is the definition of species. In any case I don't think speciation occurs in a single birth, but rather as a gradual migration of combined traits through a population. Speciation often occurs due to the geographical separation of populations of a single species. If a single birth occurred of an animal unable to mate with any others, then that new species would have no future because it would need others of its kind with which to mate. This appears to lead to a problem with regard to the definition of species. In short how can any new species exist if it can't mate, and if it can mate, then it is not a new species. We seem to have a paradox. No paradox is necessary - provided speciation occurs gradually in a large population. It seems to me likely that the *probability* of offspring due to genetic feasibility must change gradually throughout a population as mutations occur through time. It seems to me also true the probability of mating itself may change due to mutations, and this is a form of of natural selection. The gradual development of an appearance change amongst a sub-population of a species could gradually isolate that group genetically, even though it is not isolated geographically. Speciation is likely the combined effect of many mutations, and sub-populations along the way might be less likely to produce offspring when mated with each other. The larger the number of mutations, the less the probability of offspring. I think even when some differing species are mated, there is a finite but very small probability of offspring surviving at least to birth. Eventually, mutation can drive the probability of viable offspring to zero for all practical purposes. The gradual nature of speciation is thus driven by probabilites rather than absolutes. This makes the chicken and egg problem difficult, because it is difficult to define the first chicken, or to distinguish it from its parents. IOW you are suggesting that small populations speciate as a whole, rather than individuals. Yes This would appear to be possible with regard to characteristics that do not influence the ability to produce fertile offspring, however that then is no longer the definition of a new species. It seems to me unlikely that single mutations produce new species, and that the process normally must take a long time, multiple mutations, and isolated populations, geographically or otherwise. The process of speciation might be highly influenced by environmental factors however, and such a speciation even could be rapid. A sudden change of environment could bring on the immediate and simultanenous *expression* of many genes at once via epigentic influence, and this expression could simultaneously impact large portions of a population, as well as their genetic compatibility. Alternatively, large segments of DNA could be sown throughout a population via viral infection, creating a group of individuals incompatible with the prior population, but compatible with each other. Evolution may have multiple pathways available. The only natural solution I can think of is that a new species is created when a genetic mutation occurs in all the offspring of a single individual, and those offspring mate with one another. The only alternatives I can think of are unnatural, i.e. genetic manipulation, or the same mutation occurring at the same time in different individuals, that then produce offspring that can mate. The latter would however appear to be far less likely than mating between offspring from the same parent. Regards, Robin van Spaandonk http://rvanspaa.freehostia.com/Project.html Best regards, Horace Heffner http://www.mtaonline.net/~hheffner/
Re: [Vo]:Roswell Debris Confirmed
On Fri, May 29, 2009 at 5:50 AM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, May 28, 2009 at 10:49 PM, grok g...@resist.ca wrote: Oh, and BTW, you can't use the word collective in Vortex. That is for VortexB only. We are the Vortex. Resistance is Futile. You will be educated.
Re: Great biological mystery force Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
I knew this article reminded me of something. Thanks Bill. btw, cant resist. Watch ribosomes come flying in from a distance, then somehow finding and docking to a pore on the nucleus membrane. What attracts them to the membrane? How to they find the pore itself? Wouldn't there have to be some kind of weird, key-lock attractive force that pulls that particular pore-type protein to that particular ribosome-type protein? Im now imagining a rick moranis ribosome wandering around the cell, are you the gatekeeper? I am the keymaster. On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 2:36 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sat, 23 May 2009, Terry Blanton wrote: http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/04/does-dna-have-t.html Does DNA Have Telepathic Properties? Terry, there's also a DNA Telepathy announcement from two or three years back, where two portions of DNA crystal were found to have identical segments via fluorescent tagging ...even though they were on either side of a membrane, and separated by many nanometers. Someone here at the UW published a paper on it. Search on dna telepathy for old hits? Here's one http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/01/080124103151.htm Also, there's an enormous unsolved problem in biology which is similar to this 'telepathy' problem, yet nobody talks about it: In living cells, how to keys and locks almost instantly find each other over vast distances, and how can they do it in an environment where organized water behaves as a solid at the micro-level? This problem becomes very obvious in the famous Harvard animation of the workings of a cell, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZZ3DD_tV9k http://multimedia.mcb.harvard.edu/media.html Watch ribosomes come flying in from a distance, then somehow finding and docking to a pore on the nucleus membrane. What attracts them to the membrane? How to they find the pore itself? Wouldn't there have to be some kind of weird, key-lock attractive force that pulls that particular pore-type protein to that particular ribosome-type protein? And next, immediately the film shows another mystery, where the tip of a nucleus RNA comes flying up from below, docks with the pore/ribosome assembly, and starts running the tape to assemble a protein. Why was the tip of the RNA strand attracted to the nuclear membrane? How could it seek out the membrane pore? (Stupid hint, grin: imagine that the video takes place in total darkness, so the molecules can't see where to go!) In other parts of the film, the animators didn't solve the mystery by illustrating unknown forces which nobody talks about. Instead they did it by cheating. When a fiber of actin or tubulin assembles itself, the animators simply created a film of these fibers dissolving, with all the broken parts diffusing away. THEN THEY RAN THE FILM BACKWARDS! It's a total violation of 3rd law entropy, with time running backwards. Molecules come flying in from vast distances and link onto the growing fiber tip. What force drives this amazing phenomenon? More importantly, what forces select the proper type of molecule subunit, and only attracts that type of molecule towards the growing end of the fiber? What mechanism can make it seem that time can run backwards, to assemble subcellular fibers? Nobody knows. Long ago it was explained by diffusion. But then calculations showed that diffusion took too much time. Then years later the discovery of solid organized intracellular water made the problem even more inexplicable. I suspect that the real problem is psychological: Since we KNOW that cellular biology has nearly all problems solved, and no huge revolutions in biological science happen anymore, therefore it's impossible that any vast unknown could still exist. (If it did, it would make our contemporary science look ignorant and primitive, like something from last century! ) So, there's really nothing left to explore, at least nothing big. We're only cleaning up the details, such as the protein-folding mystery. And so, if an entire community of smart and highly trained people looks directly at an enormous unsolved problem ...they won't see it. They're selectively blind. And it's not even the complicated problems that they miss. It's the obvious ones that even little kids would point out. Daddy, why does the continent of Africa fit onto south America like two pieces of a puzzle? Mommy, why does that animation of molecules look like time is running backwards? If mommy is a cell biologist, then... shut up kid, you aren't smart enough to understand. But the little kid is right. DNA has been found to have a bizarre ability to put itself together, even at a distance, when according to known science it shouldn't be able to. Explanation: None, at least not yet. What's realy amazing: your news item causes a stir, when most of the simplest cellular processes require that the molecules somehow
Re: Great biological mystery force Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
well, that wont put me into sleep dep. I go into rem about 4 minutes after falling asleep. i actually sleep BETTER in 1 hour cat naps. (And ive just found, thats a main symptom of narcolepsy. explains a lot actually) Something to remember. electrons don't actaully orbit the nucleus. they bounce around randomly, perhaps actually appearing and dissapearing, or, tunneling, within vague cloud like areas known as orbitals (because of the old Neils Bohr orbital model of the atom. ) These orbitals are actually what cause the transmission spectrums, the transmission spectra is based on an electron absorbing energy, temporarily getting a boost up to a higher orbital, then dropping back down in rank to where it was before. releasing a photon that is the exact energy, and thus frequency (and thus color) of the amount of energy difference between the two states. This is why each atom has a pretty unique spectrum, its based in large part on the top filled orbitals. When electrons are shared in a chemical bond, they bounce back and forth between the filled orbitals of the paired atoms, spending weekends with daddy and weeks with mommy (mommy being the most electronegative of the pair, if they arent the same atom) Now, this fact, based on the distances involved in chemical bonds, means that the electrons are jumping at least the actual radius of the atom more than they were before. And, i recall a video i saw in chemistry long ago that showed mapping of this electron motion. Basically, it showed the general shape of an orbital , the p orbital as i recall, formed by mapping the position of the electron as it moved. there were several outliers, like, edge of the screen dots. I asked my prof at the time if that meant the electron was now and then bouncing way outside of the orbital. His statement, i don't think so, i think its just noise, but it might be. (Favorite chem teacher ever. Was not afraid to say, I don't know. ) might that form of electron tunneling be your radio signal? jumping to orbitals that are the exact same energy, because its the same element at the same energy state? Alex On Sat, May 30, 2009 at 4:03 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sat, 30 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: Im now imagining a rick moranis ribosome wandering around the cell, are you the gatekeeper? I am the keymaster. Give Moranis a radio direction finder, and it all becomes easy! Actually, my previous message was a lead-in to one of my old rants, http://amasci.com/tesla/biores.html Years ago I suffered a 'visionary experience,' and gained insights into all sorts of weird topics, plus much delusional crap which doesn't work when tested. Among it all was a tidbit: the idea that anomalous biological forces exist, forces which act like radio transmitters and receivers, with key-codes to allow biomolecules to be attracted together over many nanometers distance. At the time I was mostly unaware of the unsolved problem in biology, but I'd had suspicions. Heres the quick description: - Even though electrons orbiting atoms don't radiate photons, they do create an extremely intense AC field in the nearfield region surrounding the atom. It's related to AC Casmir forces. Physicists would see this as QM, as a field of virtual photons at the frequency of the atom's absorption line, an AC field of indeterminate phase, oriented along an indeterminate axis. Electrical engineers would imagine that every atom is a tiny AC electromagnet driven by a sinewave source. The atom's local field is AC, so there's no average force being applied to nearby matter. And atoms don't radiate continuously (i.e. there's no loss mechanism.) So, if an electron's period is in the infrared frequencies, the atom will have an AC field which extends outward to 1/4 infrared wavelength (or hundreds of nanometers.) So atoms are different than we believe. They're much larger. But only identical atoms could feel this large size. Example: sodium atoms possess an intense AC field at the sodium line frequency, and if two sodium atoms are ultra-cold and not moving fast with Doppler shift, the oscillations are identical for both atoms, synchronized. They act like bar magnets attracting each other. But these are AC electromagnets. They only see other sodiums, and won't respond to other atoms having a different frequency. But what if two sodium atoms happen to be out of phase? Even if they have identical frequency, might they not repel instead of attracting? Well, that's the same problem as two magnets having their poles out of orientation. Like two magnets they'd experience repulsion, a torque, then they'd flip themselves around, attract, and slam together. (Atoms could only slam together if ultra-cold and not being jostled thermally.) - Molecules: Two atoms with identical frequencies, if bound together into a molecule, will create a line split frequency, a double-hump spectrum
Re: Great biological mystery force Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 2:10 AM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sat, 30 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: People in the uberman/polyphasic sleep community think it's a learnable behavior. Perhaps it helps to start out with unusual brain chemistry! But at least in my own case, my creative insanity switches on only when I carefully avoid processed food (normal american chow). Heh: and then I start getting city parking spaces at the Jedi Master level of anomalous luck. Really? I should look them up. If its causing my blood sugar issues and falling asleep at work, id almost be willing to do something to change the no no i wouldnt. I LOVE being able to take a 5 minute nap and have a 15 minute subjective time frame dream. To digress just a little, I discovered your essays on the wave nature of traffic about a month before getting my license (got it at 22. Just didn't need one sooner, i took the bus everywhere. ) and had a massive impact on my driving style. Without speeding, i always get places before friends that speed becuase , Being unworried, relaxed, letting the road itself dictate things, i get openings when i need them to change lanes just appearing before me, my lights are always green, and people pull out of parking spots right in front of me the moment i enter the lot. Friends of mine riding with me are mystified and amazed. And i find that if im running late, in a rush, harried, angry, wanting everything to move faster. I get screwed with red lights, walls of cars, and no spots to park. I actually bought a website, churchoftheroad, to do a little something about that kind of thing, but, alas, still is a blank page. But i digress.. Something to remember. electrons don't actaully orbit the nucleus. Yep, that's the visualizable grade-school diagram. (Or the diagram of Rydberg atoms in the process of decay.) How can we explain the nature of EM fields in the nearfield region of a very small, sharply tuned RLC resonator? Say that it's being driven by the Casmir background, and so cannot radiate. But that doesn't mean it lacks strong fields in the nearfield region. The danger is that we'd note the lack of real photons being emitted by an atom's electron cloud, conclude that no AC fields exist in the nearfield region, therefore assume no significant EM interactions exist between two distant atoms. But transformers and capacitors are fundamentally different than pairs of distant radio antennas, and they work fine at frequencies with waves too long to radiate. The lack of light photons does not imply a lack of strong coupling between two nearby coils. (Transformers and capacitors function entirely by tunneling photons, of course.) These orbitals are actually what cause the transmission spectrums, the transmission spectra is based on an electron absorbing energy, If I try to boil down all the weird ideas that popped into my head, then here's the real question: do atoms experience significant Vanderwaals forces with nearby atoms of the same species, but not with atoms of different species? (Nearby, as in 50 nanometers, not molecular bond lengths.) Well, vanderwall includes so called London Forces, yes? I was under the impression that those occured between dissimilar atoms, for example, the london forces in water that cause its high viscosity and surface tension occure between O in one atom and H in another. But then, there are many forces included as vanderwall, yes? Is there a particular one you are thinking of that I could hunt down and look more at? The only experiments I've encountered are the very recent ones involving an AFM tip separated from a surface by many nanometers. The tip experiences a large unexplained friction, but only if the tip carries a tiny crystal of the same material of which the nearby surface is composed. In other words, an atom isn't attracted to a similar surface, but instead it causes the surface atoms to emit phonons into the crystal lattice whenever the single atom tries to move nearby. The single atom behaves as if it's trapped in electromagnetic flypaper. And the single atom is far far outside the atomic diameters of the surface atoms. I will have to hunt that one down as well. Very cool. Knowing that there's something weird going on in the tens-nM atomic region, I'd been waiting for such an experiment to crop up. I saw that QM is still incomplete, because people think that atoms are fundamentally different than tiny metal antennas. On the other hand, this topic isn't outside of physics. Instead it's filed under VanderWaals interaction, little understood, little studied, and not given high importance. I saw a quote from a fiction character in a webcomic i read recently that made me laugh. Quantum Mechanics is a lot like religion. One side endeavors to prove their answer is correct by twisting facts and ignoring others, to make their version of reality fit, no matter how stupid
Re: Great biological mystery force Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:44 AM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: leaking pen wrote: Something to remember. electrons don't actually orbit the nucleus. they bounce around randomly, perhaps actually appearing and dissapearing, or, tunneling, within vague cloud like areas known as orbitals (because of the old Neils Bohr orbital model of the atom. ) Perhaps the nucleus is a toroid and the electrons go through the hole in the center. That would be the f orbital. http://www.chemistry.ucsc.edu/~soliver/151A/Handouts/d-orbitals.gif When electrons are shared in a chemical bond, they bounce back and forth between the filled orbitals of the paired atoms, spending weekends with daddy and weeks with mommy (mommy being the most electronegative of the pair, if they arent the same atom) Now, this fact, based on the distances involved in chemical bonds, means that what a classic Generation X analogy! Considering that the parents who actually have such a setup are generally boomers with their gen x kids, I figured it would be as classic an analogy for the generation that actually HAD such a high number of divorces and split up kids. But hey, whatever floats your boat. but it might be. (Favorite chem teacher ever. Was not afraid to say, I don't know. ) wonderful teacher might that form of electron tunneling be your radio signal? jumping to orbitals that are the exact same energy, because its the same element at the same energy state? Why not, radio waves are electromagnetic radiation, ditto for light. . --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: Great biological mystery force Re: [Vo]:GATC and ESP
http://tinyurl.com/mqpszt has some info on london forces and their effect on boiling temp. heres some thougts on similar materials and weights and mp and bp. http://cost.georgiasouthern.edu/chemistry/general/molecule/forces.htm On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 4:05 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: If I try to boil down all the weird ideas that popped into my head, then here's the real question: do atoms experience significant Vanderwaals forces with nearby atoms of the same species, but not with atoms of different species? (Nearby, as in 50 nanometers, not molecular bond lengths.) Well, vanderwall includes so called London Forces, yes? I was under the impression that those occured between dissimilar atoms, for example, the london forces in water that cause its high viscosity and surface tension occure between O in one atom and H in another. Right, I've been labeling London force as VanderWaals. So basically I'm asking whether the London force is stronger between atoms which have matched absorption lines. The simple example would be two large-N atoms of the same element having many matched lines, though I recall that mercury and O2 has a match. Hmmm, now that you say the above, isn't the temperature of liquid Argon, Neon, etc. determined by the London force? Mix liquid argon with neon in 1:1 mixture, so they start keeping each other apart, and see if the boiling point gets weird. But if the force is strong over great distances, then maybe we'd see little effect. How about vapor pressure over a liquid argon surface. If there was attraction, then perhaps in a vacuum chamber the argon pressure within 10nM of the liquid argon surface would be inexplicably high, or perhaps the condensation rate seen during transients in vapor pressure would be higher than that predicted purely from first principles, thermo stats. Here's one possible ref: Search keywords: Volokitin Persson Non-contact friction enhanced by resonant atoms http://www.aip.org/pnu/2003/split/652-3.html Seriously, things not given high importance always seem to be where the breakthroughs and answers come from, dont they? Yeah, Vanderwaals force always seemed intriguing, only because everybody else is only fascinated by things like numerical solution of covalent bond physics. field must be radial and entirely contained inside the orbital? Well, what happens if experiments show otherwise. And also, what happens if another hydrogen atom is passing by at 30nM distance? My only question is how this tunneling creates an attraction. Is the electron actually imparting a force moving the atoms closer together while doing it? Photon tunneling is also called magnetic field and electric field. How could tiny electric dipoles attract each other? Whether DC fields, or AC fields at the same frequency, I think the math is identical. But now add a ferroelectric environment: liquid environment of water dipoles. One might imagine that the ferroelectric liquid would behave as a shield. But perhaps at short length scales it doesn't? (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep
on the uberman sleep schedule... im confused... After moving a couple years ago, i had a LOT of laundry to do. to get through it all, i spent 3 days setting my alarm clock at roughly hour intervals. get up with the alarm, change dryer and washer loads, fold clothes, back to sleep for an hour. I got about 6 actual hours of sleep a night, and fantastic sleep. Why spread it through the day? why not just artificially reset your sleep schedule by waking up for 10 to 15 ever 40 minutes or so? On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 3:30 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: People in the uberman/polyphasic sleep community think it's a learnable behavior. Perhaps it helps to start out with unusual brain chemistry! Really? I should look them up. Search for blogs, uberman or polyphasic keyword. Various people have managed to trigger the Uberman sleep mode. I did it accidentally while working on huge software deadlines. It lasts at least for weeks, once you get into it. You could go and work for three employers, if they were jobs that allowed ten-minute naps every few hours. Be like Tesla, coming home at 6AM to go to work on personal projects, then get back to Edison's company at 10AM for a full day of normal work. (But did Tesla's sleep habits cause his hallucinatory and photographic memory experiences, or the reverse?) If its causing my blood sugar issues and falling asleep at work, id almost be willing to do something to change the no no i wouldnt. That's exactly it: if you're trapped in polyphasic sleep, then you're hypersensitive to bread/pasta/rice/potatoes and anything full of corn syrup, such as spaghetti sauce. Normal food screws you up. Or more crackpotty: you have to eat living things, or meat that was cooked minutes ago, no leftovers (though oddly, smoked meat seems to work.) I was forced, FORCED I tell you, to survive entirely on nuts, artisan beer, and fresh salmon and herbs w/asparagus, cooked in the microwave at work. Also I found that I needed larger amounts of zinc, so started taking supplements. Some brands didn't work though. letting the road itself dictate things, i get openings when i need them to change lanes just appearing before me, my lights are always green, and people pull out of parking spots right in front of me the moment i enter the lot. Ah, that's exactly the Jedi Master effect. If you're in polyphasic sleep, it's as if the gods are watching you, and doling out anomalous synchronicity rewards and punishment based on your petty acts of self- importance verus saintliness. Well, more probably your subconscious is awake and watching your tiny conscious personality, and giving it ethical lessons. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep
I have a saying that a lot of friends have made an axiom, actually. First said it when i was 12. I think you have to be insane, to not be insane. See, being a LITTLE insane is good, as anyone who is COMPLETELY sane in this world will soon be driven COMPLETELY INsane. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:30 PM, Terry Blanton hohlr...@gmail.com wrote: When I do this, I find the REM extremely bizarre. It also takes me a good 10 minutes to come out of it. I must admit, however, that I find my creativity enhanced with the half hour REMs during the hourly cat naps. Maybe it's the frequent insanity which avoids permanent insanity. :-) Terry On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:07 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: on the uberman sleep schedule... im confused... Different groups seem to worship different schedules. As for me, I found that I'd be happily working away, when suddenly I'd hit a wall. I'd have to crawl off to collapse somewhere for a few minutes REM sleep. But then it would pass, and I'd leap up and go strong for several more hours. A fast-cycling biological clock, no theories, just empirical. And once this phenomenon grabbed me, it continued without further effort. However, to switch back to 8hr nightly sleep, *huge* effort was needed. (In a different situation we might say insomnia is no joke.) I also found what NOT to do: if I kept working through the haze, I'd wake up again, and could continue for hours. But the missed naps had bad effects, both healthwise and for avoiding something resembling schitzophrenia. So I learned to take the onset of groggyness very seriously, and not skip any naps, even if I was supposed to be in a work meeting, etc. After moving a couple years ago, i had a LOT of laundry to do. to get through it all, i spent 3 days setting my alarm clock at roughly hour intervals. get up with the alarm, change dryer and washer loads, fold clothes, back to sleep for an hour. I got about 6 actual hours of sleep a night, and fantastic sleep. Why spread it through the day? why not just artificially reset your sleep schedule by waking up for 10 to 15 ever 40 minutes or so? Once you get into that mode, you start sleeping and waking naturally with no alarm clocks. But sleeps might be 10-30 minutes long, with several waking hours between. And when sleep time arrives, there's no mistaking it, it's like drinking a large glass of vodka. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep
That makes sense. Actually, hunh. like cats and most other hunting animals. I wonder what type of sleep schedule our primitive ancestors had. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: on the uberman sleep schedule... im confused... Different groups seem to worship different schedules. As for me, I found that I'd be happily working away, when suddenly I'd hit a wall. I'd have to crawl off to collapse somewhere for a few minutes REM sleep. But then it would pass, and I'd leap up and go strong for several more hours. A fast-cycling biological clock, no theories, just empirical. And once this phenomenon grabbed me, it continued without further effort. However, to switch back to 8hr nightly sleep, *huge* effort was needed. (In a different situation we might say insomnia is no joke.) I also found what NOT to do: if I kept working through the haze, I'd wake up again, and could continue for hours. But the missed naps had bad effects, both healthwise and for avoiding something resembling schitzophrenia. So I learned to take the onset of groggyness very seriously, and not skip any naps, even if I was supposed to be in a work meeting, etc. After moving a couple years ago, i had a LOT of laundry to do. to get through it all, i spent 3 days setting my alarm clock at roughly hour intervals. get up with the alarm, change dryer and washer loads, fold clothes, back to sleep for an hour. I got about 6 actual hours of sleep a night, and fantastic sleep. Why spread it through the day? why not just artificially reset your sleep schedule by waking up for 10 to 15 ever 40 minutes or so? Once you get into that mode, you start sleeping and waking naturally with no alarm clocks. But sleeps might be 10-30 minutes long, with several waking hours between. And when sleep time arrives, there's no mistaking it, it's like drinking a large glass of vodka. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep
That was unfair, mean spirited, and does not belong in this conversation. Alex 2009/5/31 Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net: I wonder what type of sleep schedule our primitive ancestors had. Ask grok... -Mark -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 31, 2009 7:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep That makes sense. Actually, hunh. like cats and most other hunting animals. I wonder what type of sleep schedule our primitive ancestors had. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 6:07 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: on the uberman sleep schedule... im confused... Different groups seem to worship different schedules. As for me, I found that I'd be happily working away, when suddenly I'd hit a wall. I'd have to crawl off to collapse somewhere for a few minutes REM sleep. But then it would pass, and I'd leap up and go strong for several more hours. A fast-cycling biological clock, no theories, just empirical. And once this phenomenon grabbed me, it continued without further effort. However, to switch back to 8hr nightly sleep, *huge* effort was needed. (In a different situation we might say insomnia is no joke.) I also found what NOT to do: if I kept working through the haze, I'd wake up again, and could continue for hours. But the missed naps had bad effects, both healthwise and for avoiding something resembling schitzophrenia. So I learned to take the onset of groggyness very seriously, and not skip any naps, even if I was supposed to be in a work meeting, etc. After moving a couple years ago, i had a LOT of laundry to do. to get through it all, i spent 3 days setting my alarm clock at roughly hour intervals. get up with the alarm, change dryer and washer loads, fold clothes, back to sleep for an hour. I got about 6 actual hours of sleep a night, and fantastic sleep. Why spread it through the day? why not just artificially reset your sleep schedule by waking up for 10 to 15 ever 40 minutes or so? Once you get into that mode, you start sleeping and waking naturally with no alarm clocks. But sleeps might be 10-30 minutes long, with several waking hours between. And when sleep time arrives, there's no mistaking it, it's like drinking a large glass of vodka. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Need big list of legit heretical research
Remote Viewing Secrets: A Handbook (Paperback) by Joseph McMoneagle assuming that there is no gov funding currently. I could be wrong. On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 7:57 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: Gerald Pollack, a sucessful maverick biochemist at the UW, is trying to collect a list of books which describe crazy fringe research projects and proposals not currently attracting any government funding. My own list is below. Any more suggestions? Book suggestions, NOT research proposals. Also, collections of taboo topics are desired over books about individuals. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beatyhttp://staff.washington.edu/wbeaty/ beaty chem washington edu Research Engineer billbamascicom UW Chem Dept, Bagley Hall RM74 206-543-6195Box 351700, Seattle, WA 98195-1700 THE SOURCEBOOK PROJECT: FRONTIERS OF SCIENCE Compiled by WR Corliss INFINITE ENERGY MAGAZINE THE CONSCIOUS UNIVERSE Dr. Dean Radin FORBIDDEN ARCHEOLOGY Michael Cremo SEVEN EXPERIMENTS THAT COULD CHANGE THE WORLD, A do-it yourself guide to revolutionary science, Rupert Sheldrake FORBIDDEN SCIENCE, Suppressed research that could change our lives Richard Milton SCIENTIFIC LITERACY AND THE MYTH OF THE SCIENTIFIC METHOD Henry H. Bauer DEVIANT SCIENCE The Case of Parapsychology, James McClenon DARWIN'S CREATION MYTH, by Alexander Mebane COSMIC PLASMAS, by Hannes Aflven THE ELECTRIC UNIVERSE Thornhill Talbott DARK LIFE Michael Taylor THE DEEP HOT BIOSPHERE Thomas Gold THE ENCYCLOPEDIA OF IGNORANCE Ronald Duncan, Miranda Weston-Smith eds. Also, any tales of vindicated heretics? HIDDEN HISTORIES OF SCIENCE R. Silvers, ed. 1995 CONFRONTING THE EXPERTS, B. Martin, ed., 1996 THE ART OF SCIENTIFIC INVESTIGATION, W. Beveridge 1950 SCIENCE IS A SACRED COW, Anthony Standen 1950
Re: [Vo]:Need big list of legit heretical research
pretty close to my own feelings on the matter, hence why i said im not sure if they CURRENTLY recieve funding. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 5:58 AM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From Lawrence: There used to be US gov't funding some years ago, but it was discontinued. The fact that it received such funding is being used to bolster current claims to credibility. My theory is that funding continues on RV, just that it was intentionally driven even deeper into black ops. I recall there was a big bru-ha-ha in congress about how absurd it was that our government was caught red-handed spending precious taxpayer's money on boondoggle programs... and of course a RV program was a perfect target to go after... a symbol of wasted taxpayer money. At the end of the day various congressional leaders and senators could pat and self congratulate themselves and tell their constituents that they had saved their country money, so please go ahead and re-elect me again for looking out for your best tax dollar interests. I suspect much of that publicity may have been carefully managed - in the sense that those who were running RV programs may have decided that what they were doing was getting a little to visible as far as they were concerned. It was time to drive RV programs deeper under cover. I suspect they got their way. I bet it's business as usual. ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:Inventors and Uberman/polyphasic sleep
So, first off, anyone have any good plans for a home made eeg? im interested in taking a closer look at my own sleep schedule. Based on all the conversation, I've decided to try a slightly modified uberman, to see if it fixes my issues. So, 45 minute nap at 5 yesterday, again at 10, slept from 2 to 5:15, 45 minute nap on the bus from 6 to 645. plan on a nap at noon, but so far, not that tired, with very little sleep. im liking this. now, to see what my body thinks, even if the mind is happy. The more I think about it, the more i agree, its hunter gatherer versus farmer. the hunter/gatherer is always active, always moving. being able to catnap constantly, like, well, a cat, was very desirable. the farmer is in one place, generally works the fields while the sun is out, has nothing to do after sun down with a lack of light. has a safe location where you dont have to worry about predators and moving every so often, so sleeping in a straight chunk works better to let you stay awake all day working. So... narcoleptics... genetic throwbacks? On Sun, May 31, 2009 at 8:09 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: I wonder what type of sleep schedule our primitive ancestors had. While in accelerated mode I wondered about this, and saw the answer in some detail. Are fever-dreams trustworthy? In town mode everybody crawls into their wigwams and sleeps at night, so the society remains synched up. In individual hunter mode you might chase down large game for hours, catnapping, even without shooting it, until it gives up. (Impressive big hunter drives it in a wide circle, so it finally walks into the villiage and collapses.) In being hunted down by invaders mode, the ones who sleep more will fall behind: a large natural selection force. If some humans needed 8hrs sleep, then a mutant sleepless tribe could always run them into the ground like large game. Our ancestors are the ones whose bodies/minds figured out the solution. (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Need big list of legit heretical research
When you gaze at Tesla, Tesla gazes back at you! On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:21 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: Remote Viewing Secrets: A Handbook (Paperback) by Joseph McMoneagle assuming that there is no gov funding currently. I could be wrong. There's an idea: just lie down, close your eyes, and look at Colorado Springs lab in 1899. H. Big bright square lights on the walls instead of on the ceiling. Tables all over the place. Weird repeating sound. Oh. Holy. Crap. No wonder Tesla kept secrets, and went slowly insane. And now it's going to happen to me too, damn. On second thought, DON'T GO AND LOOK. :) (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:Need big list of legit heretical research
Taking the source as potentially genuine, first off, especially as a barn, hed have to put in a drop ceiling, which wasnt done then. plus, Tesla never really seemed to thing of things above coming down, but things below going up. On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 6:41 z PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Mon, 1 Jun 2009, leaking pen wrote: When you gaze at Tesla, Tesla gazes back at you! He's Cthulu, a Deep One, and is waiting just over the edge to tell you secrets that no sane mind can tolerate! But why would you want to put big square fluorescent fixtures on the walls of your lab, instead of the ceiling? That was unexpected. I guess they aren't nearly as bright as ours. Makes the interior of the barn appear to have big bright rectangular picture windows, but with no scenery outside them. Perhaps in 1899, ceiling fixtures weren't the standardized norm like they are today. Or perhaps it was easier to work on them if they were at window height? Or maybe the whole experience was inaccurate hallucination. (Also, all the stuff in the barn was in color. I expected it to be in monochrome, like all the photos. Lots of small bright red-painted coils sitting around on tables.) On Mon, Jun 1, 2009 at 2:21 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 31 May 2009, leaking pen wrote: Remote Viewing Secrets: A Handbook (Paperback) by Joseph McMoneagle assuming that there is no gov funding currently. I could be wrong. There's an idea: just lie down, close your eyes, and look at Colorado Springs lab in 1899. H. Big bright square lights on the walls instead of on the ceiling. Tables all over the place. Weird repeating sound. Oh. Holy. Crap. No wonder Tesla kept secrets, and went slowly insane. And now it's going to happen to me too, damn. On second thought, DON'T GO AND LOOK. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
Well, this is a science forum, so lets test that. And we will do so in true science fashion, by attempting to DISprove our theory. So, our theory is that co2 is NOT a pollutant. To test that, hows about we lock you in a room and pump in co2? see what it does On Tue, Jun 2, 2009 at 6:46 PM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: Repeat after me 100 times: CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is not a If we have to capture the carbon in CO2, then we really can’t burn it in the first place. Funny how we are willing to build Nuclear plants for other countries, but we are going to stick ourselves with windmills and solar collectors. Half of Iran is sun baked desert, but even they won’t take solar power over nuclear. Jeff From: fznidar...@aol.com [mailto:fznidar...@aol.com] Sent: Tuesday, June 02, 2009 9:11 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture My first day in the carbon-sequestering group went well. The technology is proprietary so I cannot share it with this group. I can, however, share some items. In the year 2020 all power plants will be required to sequester their carbon emissions. They will be required to capture 90% of the emitted carbon. There are many technologies to capture carbon. The ones that can capture carbon at a 90% rate are very capital and energy intensive. Capital costs could equal the cost of the original generating plant. Energy costs could reach 30% of generation. Efforts are underway to reduce these costs. There does not appear to be an easy way out. The company I work for has the only working, in operation, technology in North America. That's good. I do not know how the utilities and rate payers are going to be able to sustain these costs. Perhaps a goal of 25% capture would be more viable. I am still learning and studying this stuff. Jed we need cold fusion now please. Frank Z An Excellent Credit Score is 750. See Yours in Just 2 Easy Steps!
Re: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
as well as a method of suicide, combined with carbon MONoxide for a more nerve deadening effect, vis a vis the old, run the car in an enclosed garage and go to sleep method. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:08 AM, Stephen A. Lawrence sa...@pobox.com wrote: Jed Rothwell wrote: Jeff Fink wrote: If you put me in a room where CO2 is double the ambient, I won't even notice. Oh come now! This is not a serious argument. If I put you in a Japanese hot spring bath for a half-hour you would probably find it pleasant. If a million acres of Georgia land were inundated with 50 deg C water filled with sulphur it would be a disaster. Please, give us a break. This is a science forum. You can't just toss out the last hundred years of climatology and substitute a statement about how you would fare if you were put in a room with a lot of CO2. The argument (or non-argument) also depends critically on the definition of a lot of CO2. Note well that CO2 can be used as an anesthetic in small animal surgery (it knocks them cold) and it is also used to perform euthanasia on small animals (it knocks them colder). Again, it all depends on the concentration. That's got nothing remotely to do with climatology, and you know it. - Jed
Re: [Vo]:Sequestering CO2
Actually, biosphere 2 experiments with raising trees found that in higher co2 environments, they would grow quick and tall, not as wide, not sequester as much co2, and while they used more co2 in respiration, at levels about double our current baseline co2 percentages, the difference between co2 produced and consumed by trees neared 0. Again, SCIENCE! Alex On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:29 AM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: We have economical examples of these devices all over the planet. They are called trees. They are self replicating, and the higher the concentration of CO2 gets the faster they replicate. Well, isn't that cool? A self regulating planet wide system is already in place to deal with the problem. Jeff -Original Message- From: OrionWorks [mailto:svj.orionwo...@gmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, June 03, 2009 2:09 PM To: vortex-l Subject: [Vo]:Sequestering CO2 Frank's work brings up a wish-list: Wouldn't it be nice if there was an economical technology in existence that had the ability to separate CO2 back into its individual elements. Release the oxygen back into the atmosphere while simultaneously nano-manufacturing all sorts of interesting carbon nonotubes. Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance?
Im not too familiar with some of the mathematic principles mentioned, but i did find this First, he mis-applies the Virial theorem. The virial theorem applies to kinetic vs. potential energy, and it can be shown that for an atmosphere in equilibrium it is trivially satisfied by any hydrostically balanced atmosphere. The second error is that he misapplies Kirchoff's laws --in fact the so-called application of these laws bears no relation to the actual statement of the laws. Both of these errors are in the first 9 pages. You can spot the error in the virial theorem because the dimensions aren't right -- he applies the theorem to energy fluxes, rather than energy, and his result is just a fiction. as a comment on the paper. perhaps others here can make more sense of it. as for changing albedo... you mean, through increased city building, melting and spreading of the oceans, and deforestation? the albedo of the earth is indeed changing. 2009/6/3 Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net: Or has the balance always been there? Dr. Ferenc Miskolczi has quite a distinguished scientific career, including a number of years at NASA Langley. It's a long read, but well worth it... http://hpsregi.elte.hu/zagoni/NEW/ZM-MF_short.pdf And here is one of his later peer-reviewed publications: http://hpsregi.elte.hu/zagoni/NEW/2007.pdf -Mark Dr. Miskolczi's theses: 1.There are hitherto unrealized global average relationships between certain longwave flux components in the Earth’s atmosphere; 2.The new relations directly link global mean surface temperature to the incoming shortwave radiation F0 ; 3.The Earth’s atmosphere optimally utilizes all available incoming energy; its greenhouse effect works on the possible energetic top; 4.The classical semi-infinite solution of the Earth's atmospheric radiative transfer problem does not contain the correct boundary conditions; it underestimates the global average near-surface air temperatures and overestimates the ground temperatures; 5.Recent models significantly overestimate the sensitivity of greenhouse forcing to optical depth perturbations; 6.Resolving the paradox of temperature discontinuity at the ground, a new energy balance constraint can be recognized; 7.The Earth’s atmosphere, satisfying the energy minimum principle, is configured to the most effective cooling of the planet with an equilibrium global average vertical temperature and moisture profile; 8.The Earth-atmosphere system maintains a virtually saturated greenhouse effect with a critical equilibrium global average IR flux optical depth tauA = 1.87; excess or deficit in this global average optical depth violates fundamental energetic principles; 9.As long as the Earth has the oceans as practically infinite natural sources and sinks of optical depth in the form of water vapor, the system is able to maintain this critical optical depth and the corresponding stable global mean surface temperature; 10. The new transfer and greenhouse functions, based on the finite, semi-transparent solution of the Schwarzschild-Milne equation with real boundary conditions adequately reproduce both the Earth’s and the Martian atmospheric greenhouse effect; 11. The Kiehl-Trenberth 1997 global mean energy budget estimate (c.f. IPCC 2007 AR4 WG1 FAQ1.1. Fig.1.) is erroneous; the U.S. Standard Atmosphere (USST-76) does not represent the real global average temperature profile (not in radiative equilibrium, not in energy balance, not enough H2O); it should not be used as a single-column model for global energy budget studies; 12. The observed global warming on the Earth has nothing directly to do with changes in atmospheric IR absorber concentrations; it must be related to variations in the total available incoming F0 solar plus P0 heat energy (geothermal, ocean-atmosphere heat exchange, industrial heat generation etc.). Runaway greenhouse effect contradicts the energy conservation principle; global mean surface warming is possible only if the solar luminosity, the Earth-Sun distance and/or the planetary albedo changes (depending on the extent of the cryosphere, on cloud coverage, and/or on the varying surface properties according to land use change etc.); 13. Without water vapor feedback, the primary greenhouse sensitivity to a doubling CO2 theoretically would be about 0.24 K, according to the semi-transparent solution of the radiation equations in a bounded atmosphere. But taking into account all the energetic constraints, the actual value is 0.0 K. No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.52/2152 - Release Date: 06/03/09 05:53:00
Re: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
Hum, it's almost summer here in the great northwest, why am I wearing this sweater? Oh yes, that's why they call it climate change. and here in arizona , we hit 9 days of over 100 in a row sooner than ever in recorded history. On Wed, Jun 3, 2009 at 11:14 PM, thomas malloy temall...@usfamily.net wrote: Rick Monteverde wrote: Jed wrote: If you would like to argue that salt or CO2 in the wrong places in the wrong amounts are not pollutants, let's see some reasons. Hum, I assume the plan is to bury the NH3 (CO2)2. I wonder what happens when it gets hot? Wait a minute! - Anthropogenic contributions of CO2 to the atmosphere is warming earth's climate (and we're at the tipping point Hum, it's almost summer here in the great northwest, why am I wearing this sweater? Oh yes, that's why they call it climate change. In your version of a science forum, then tell us if we can't show evidence that it isn't true, we should basically just shut up and smell the socialism? Ah, the voice of discent! Ok, I'll play: - Invisible elves from the Crab Nebula in Orion are controlling the Federal Reserve Bank from their base on the back side of the moon. Wrong! There not invisible, haven't you seen the pictures of the Grey Aliens? And that explains everything that's happened to the US economy lately, as confirmed by numerous people who have studied these things carefully and can't possibly be wrong. There it is. Hmpf. I've just been informed that the money spent so far would have given every American $500,000 . Which is one hell of a lot of money, I wonder where it all went? --- Get FREE High Speed Internet from USFamily.Net! -- http://www.usfamily.net/mkt-freepromo.html ---
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance?
i am in agreement partially. since it included substance, it was simply an insult, as it was not the basis of his arguement. On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 7:22 PM, Rick Monteverde r...@highsurf.com wrote: The message, despite the link, was clearly ad-hominem. -Original Message- From: Stephen A. Lawrence [mailto:sa...@pobox.com] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 10:13 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance? The page in question was actually directed at his message, not the messenger, despite the title. There was no ad hominem involved at all. Anyone unclear on this should go read the page to which Nick posted the link, which directly addresses Miskolczi's arguments regarding global warming. Nothing at all that I saw on that page attacked Mizkolczi, the man.
Re: [Vo]:optical trap for FQ (Feline Quanta)
::Falls over laughing: On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 5:39 AM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: We recently constructed the first cat optical trap, a longwave incoherent 1-D version of the laser cooled adiabatic ion trap. Obtain a long spring-arm desklamp, lift it 10 high and aim its emitter downwards, and place a bath towel just below it (cellulose preferred over artificial fibers, aged fabric required.) Apply power, and after a brief delay the space between the incoherent source and the cellulose absorber will fill with large purring entities extracted from the Dirac background. Remove power, and their number decays far more slowly than the time- constant associated with their appearance, perhaps giving evidence of a short-range attraction force. On successive operations the time constant of population growth diminishes to a limit: a strange form of hysteresis. Chaotic feline trajectories are observed in multi-particle populations in the trap, analogous to those of ion crystals during optical trapping in vacuum conditions. We see evidence that our trap was accidentally optimized for 720T and 1G acceleration field, but further testing has yet to be performed. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture
nor did i ever state that double co2 would do it. i suggested simply turning up the co2 to higher and higher concentrations, you know, just until you stopped breathing! On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 1:57 PM, Jeff Fink rev...@ptd.net wrote: A clarification: I was responding to Leaking pen, when he challenged me to survive in a room full of CO2 as proof that CO2 is not pollutant. To that I responded that even at twice ambient atmospheric levels of CO2, I would not even notice. In a subsequent post I backed up my response with some data. I did not say, nor intend to speculate what effects double CO2 levels would have on climate. But, since Jed interpreted my response to Leaking Pen as a comment on CO2 levels verses global warming, I will go on record with the following statement: I suspect that doubling atmospheric CO2 levels would have some measurable effect on climate. Jeff -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell [mailto:jedrothw...@gmail.com] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 4:21 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com; vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: RE: [Vo]:first day in carbon capture Rick Monteverde wrote: The assertion made by Fink -- that high CO2 levels do not affect human respiration therefore the global warming hypothesis must be wrong -- is not supported by data or theory. . . . [Fink] may be incorrect, but it is not nonsense. It is supported by some data and some theory. Okay, what data and theory? Where is it published? What are you talking about? I have never heard of anything like that, and Fink did not supply the names of papers or references. The assertion made by [Rothwell] -- that [Fink's claim is wrong and therefore the global warming hypothesis must be right] -- is not supported by data or theory. It is a straw man logical fallacy; he is refuting an argument that no one makes. My assertion was not a straw man. Fink clearly made the argument that there is no danger from global warming as long as CO2 levels do not affect human respiration. (To put it another way, he claimed that the basis of the global warming hypothesis is rooted in measurements or assertions about CO2 affecting human respiration.) That is unprecedented and without any scientific basis as far as I know. If you know of some foundation for this, Rick, please enlighten us. Or if you claim that is not Fink's argument, then what was it? - Jed
Re: [Vo]:optical trap for FQ (Feline Quanta)
ooo, thinking of other things to add to that list just gave me an idea for a REAL invention doggy/kitty door with an rfid reader for those pets with chips. only your pet can open the door! On Thu, Jun 4, 2009 at 11:08 PM, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Thu, 4 Jun 2009, OrionWorks wrote: Except for a tendency to pounce on their meals and occasionally hack up a hairball there will be no way to distinguish these futuristic invaders from the human population - until it's too late. What's wrong with pouncing on meals or hacking up hairballs? I've been doing it for about as long as I've had the idea for this trapping experiment. That, plus my designs for lamp-switch or television remote control rugs which can be operated by foot pressure. And the indoor aviary to raise finches. Perhaps long term events associated with this experiment extend temporally in both advance and retarded forms, as in Feynman/Wheeler. (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance?
I don't have a refference, i grabbed that from someones post on a message board, to, as i said, give thought to those who know more about the subject than i to see if that made sense. 2009/6/5 Mark Iverson zeropo...@charter.net: Just so you all have an idea of what its all about, first, a summary of the theory and then I'll comment on Nick's post: The standard theory of anthropogenic global warming is challenged by a new theory which is based on empirical evidence and a reevaluation of the Eddinger equations, using a different set of boundary conditions. In this exposition the Eddington radiation equilibrium equations (which apply to stars) are solved correctly for a planet with a semi-transparent atmosphere, like the Earth. The correct solutions predict that Earth's atmosphere holds an amount of greenhouse gases that maximize radiation of heat into space. It appears that the Earth has a self-regulation mechanism that allows increases of CO2 to exert only a very minor influence on the planet's temperature. Independent measurements give insight into the mechanism of how this self-regulation takes place. Still other measurements contradict the atmospheric heating that supposedly follows directly from standard climate models as a result of increased CO2 during the last few decades. Cooling is observed, instead. Due to the importance of the problem for policies that affect the well-being of the world's population, we conclude that there are now ample grounds to organize a discussion between the scientific proponents of these two theories. REF: http://www.landshape.org/dokuwiki/doku.php?id=introduction Nick: Your disparaging comment is unconvincing, and misleading; ALL THE FACTS, not just what supports what you believe to be true. I went to your reference (and BTW, I'm still waiting for leaking pen's reference!) and did some reading there and at other sites, and it didn't take long to find one person's comment about you: Nick you are still obfuscating, but thanks for the response anyway. As I said, momentum is a vector, and because it is symmetric about the Earth's axis, for S_T it sums to zero anyway. Ok so how do they do this? You said, The escaping photons provide an effective force on the earth. These might budge the orbit by a nanometre or so You are making it up as you go by the look of it. Now consider a column through which the photons of S_T are passing through the atmosphere they have a momentum what happens to that momentum due to interaction with the particles in the amosphere on the way out? Try to stay focused on the question. ME: For those that are truly interested in this topic, there is some very good DISCUSSION about Dr. Miskolczi's papers on these sites: http://www.climateaudit.org/phpBB3/viewtopic.php?f=4t=556 http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/documents/The_Saturated_Greenhouse_Effect.htm Here's a bibliography and review of recent peer-reviewed papers which questions Global Warming Science: http://www.friendsofscience.org/assets/files/documents/Madhav%20bibliography%20LONG%20VERSION%20Feb% 206-07.pdf ME: And some of this is beginning to sound very (FP) familiar... ... Then Miskolczi himself posts a few messages in his defense and he is insulted by Gavin and 'raypierre.' Gavin and 'raypierre' claim that Mikolczi makes several blatant algebraic errors in the first 9 pages of his report that invalidate his entire thesis. They don't say what those errors are; they are apparently saving them for a paper written by a sophomore physics class as a class project. In other words, Miklosci's math errors are so obvious that sophomore physics majors can point them out. Maybe they are right, but that was in March and, as far as I can tell, the class paper has not been posted yet. -Mark -Original Message- From: Nick Palmer [mailto:ni...@wynterwood.co.uk] Sent: Thursday, June 04, 2009 6:43 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:The Science of Greenhouse Effect...Time for some balance? Ferenc Miskolczi - balance? - oh please! Before you now it he will be proving his theories using the size, relationships and angles of the great pyramids. http://www.realclimate.org/wiki/index.php?title=Ferenc_Miskolczi Nick Palmer On the side of the Planet - and the people - because they're worth it No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.53/2154 - Release Date: 06/04/09 05:53:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.339 / Virus Database: 270.12.53/2154 - Release Date: 06/04/09 05:53:00
Re: [Vo]:Shanahan goes off the deep end! -- The psychology of bigotry
this should be on B guys. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 10:16 AM, OrionWorkssvj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From Lawrence de Bivort: Some 'substitutes' for racial bigotries come readily to mind: anti-Muslim (from evangelical Christians and current American society); anti-Semitism (eg from the Nazis); anti-Palestinians (from Israelis). Perhaps anti-Liberals? I have a perfect example of anti-Mulsim hatred disguised as Christian piety, retrieved from a private group list that I somehow managed to get included in. (Don't ask me how this came about!) I actually received the following true letter twice approximately a year apart, so it would seem that my original objections were ignored - or overruled. What absolutely astonished me was the incredible amount of arrogance and scripting the original author displayed in how he characterized the behavior of the Imam. In just a couple of sentences it is alleged that the Christian minister was capable of reducing the Imam's religious ideology to shreds. That's one for the Christians, and zero for the Muslims! For those curious I recommend browsing www.snopes.com, for a run down on similar internet rumors, including the source of this viral letter that continues to circulate through the internet like a virulent case of Swine-flu: See http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/allah.asp And now, for your entertainment, the so-called Christian letter of pious enlightenment: - Allah or Jesus? Last month I attended my annual training session that's required for maintaining my state prison security clearance. During the training session there was a presentation by three speakers who represented the Roman Catholic, Protestant and Muslim faiths who explained their belief systems. I was particularly interested in what the Islamic Imam had to say. The Imam gave a great presentation of the basics of Islam complete with a video. After the presentations time was provided for questions and answers. When it was my turn I directed my question to the Imam and asked: Please, correct me if I'm wrong, but I understand that all of the Imams and clerics of Islam have declared a holy jihad [Holy war] against the infidels of the world. And, that by killing an infidel, which is a command to al Muslims, they are assured of a place in heaven. If that's the case, can you give me the definition of an infidel? There was no disagreement with my statements and without hesitation he replied, non-believers! I responded, so, let me make sure I have this straight. All followers of Allah have been commanded to kill everyone who is not of your faith so they can go to heaven. Is that correct? The expression on his face changed from authority and command to that of a little boy who had just gotten caught with his hand in the cookie jar. He sheepishly replied, Yes. I then said, Well, sir, I have a real problem trying to imagine Pop John Paul command all Catholics to kill those of your faith or Pat Robertson, or Dr. Stanley ordering Protestants to do the same in order to go to heaven. The Imam was Speechless. I continue, I also have a problem with being your friend when you and your brother clerics are telling your followers to kill me. Let me ask you a question ... would you rather have your Allah who tell[s] you to kill me in order to go to heaven or my Jesus who tells me to love you because I am going to heaven and wants you to be with me You could have heard a pin drop as the Imam hung his head in shame. Chuck Colson once told me something that has sustained me for 20 years of prison ministry. He said to me, Rick, remember that the truth wil prevail. And it will! - Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:anomalous DNA changes
okay, codons used are start and stop codons, and codons that cause certain aminos to be put in place. how can you tell if another codon is activated ? im one of the supposed star kids or violet children myself. Had a couple people try to tell my mom that when i was a kid. Her comments, no, hes hyper intelligent, extra sensitive to certain things, and very human and normal thoughout history as people like that happen all the time. we just dont burn them as witches anymore (much) But, the sodium vapor lamp bit is still a great party trick. in puberty i had such excellent control i could point at lights nearby and put out specific ones. (not sure what causes it, but apparently overloads of voltage in such lamps cause breakers to pop then come back on when the light cools. the theory was that the human body's normal electrical field, if it matched up just right, could cause it. who knows why. But a couple years ago, i lived at a house that had a few sodiums still on the street behind it. i would walk that street and then around and in, about a block out of the way. my roomate knew when i was a few minutes from home, because the backyard got dark as the lamp went out as i walked under it every day. ) On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 2:41 PM, OrionWorks svj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From Rick Monteverde: Ok... at this point it's time to start asking questions like: References please? Me too - any references? Wikipedia says it's all crap and there are no scientific studies showing any of this stuff is true. However, doesn't *that* sound familiar! And remember the new-age nonsense claims that red LEDs could accelerate healing? I used to get a good laugh out of that too, until it was proven to be true, published in Nature, and is now accepted therapy for some things. Do you recall what kind of red LED light healing therapy was being applied? I would guess it had something to do with the acceleration of healing certain skin problems, possibly allergies. I know from my own experience that I occasionally got little moody around the end of January and February way up here in the wilds of Wisconsin. I got a recommendation to use a full-spectrum light to simulate natural sunlight. Turn it on for an hour or so first thing in the morning. Seemed to work. Since I started walking to and from work year-round I suspect being exposed to a strong dose of natural sunlight on a regular basis had something to do with keeping the SADs at bay. Haven't had to use the artificial sun lamp since. Tin foil hat that I am, I still would never have seen that coming. So how can claims like this be verified/falsified in this environment? And where do I send my money so I can get my four special codons activated? And if I pony up for the top secret 5th codon, will I be able to levitate? - Rick Send in 20 Ovaltine boxtops to the codon committee - and all will be revealed to you. BTW, levitating is not all that it's cracked up to be. Landings can be a bitch! Trust me! ;-) Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:anomalous DNA changes
No, ive heard of that one before. I attract smoke smell, walk through a smoke filled room really quick, take a shower and smell all the smoke embedded in my hair and skin coming off. (ugh) . but i cant clear a cloud. im betting its something electrostatic. On Fri, Jun 5, 2009 at 7:11 PM, Rick Monteverder...@highsurf.com wrote: -Original Message- From: leaking pen [mailto:itsat...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 05, 2009 1:33 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:anomalous DNA changes snip But, the sodium vapor lamp bit is still a great party trick. snip Can you clear a cloud cigarrett smoke in a room? I think it's a related ability. - Rick
Re: [Vo]:anomalous DNA changes
ohh absolutely, and i told people that often, i figured that as a kid. However, i put out ones that DONT regularly go out, And at one point, i worked at a grocery store with their parking lot full. i could basically put out different lights at will by waving and thinking at them. How it might work, no clue. Not enough data for me to make a theory. as far as a cd player, static electricity can definatley goof up the lasers, the motors, and the actual control buttons. On Sat, Jun 6, 2009 at 6:41 PM, OrionWorkssvj.orionwo...@gmail.com wrote: From Leak: ... But, the sodium vapor lamp bit is still a great party trick. in puberty i had such excellent control i could point at lights nearby and put out specific ones. (not sure what causes it, but apparently overloads of voltage in such lamps cause breakers to pop then come back on when the light cools. the theory was that the human body's normal electrical field, if it matched up just right, could cause it. who knows why. But a couple years ago, i lived at a house that had a few sodiums still on the street behind it. i would walk that street and then around and in, about a block out of the way. my roomate knew when i was a few minutes from home, because the backyard got dark as the lamp went out as i walked under it every day. ) Regarding the weird phenomenon of sodium vapor lights going out in one's presence, I noticed a similar phenomenon happen to me when I drove past a certain street lamp in my neighborhood. For a while I wondered what it was I might be doing, or what it might be about me personally, my physiology, or my fantasized psychic abilities that made the lamp flicker out. I pondered this mystery, off and on, for quite a spell. One evening I decided to watch one of these intermittent sodium vapor lights that I felt I was influencing. I eventually discovered that the damned light had a tendency to go out on a regular basis regardless of whether I was passing by it or not. I had just assumed that I must somehow be responsible for the light going out because the light was in the process of performing one of its numerous off cycles, serendipitously around the time I was driving past it. On another matter, back in the 1980s, I had a first generation CD player that would act up whenever I passed my hand near the front control panel. I assumed I was carrying some kind of a static charge that might be interfering with some of the delicate electronics. Unfortunately, I never was able to confirm my suspicion. I tried everything I could think of to remove all static charge from my body. Didn't seem to matter. The CD player would still act up. Happened in the middle of a humid summer as well. Anyone know what might cause a flaky CD player to act up by a simple wave of the hand? ...or can I fantasize myself as a latent Uri Geller in training! 8-0 Regards Steven Vincent Johnson www.OrionWorks.com www.zazzle.com/orionworks
Re: [Vo]:grok is removed temporarily
My email doesnt have my real name anymore, due to a few reasons, but its the one i use becuase its my main email. i could easily resubscribe to this list with one that has my name. enh. For all those defending him, i agree with grok politically more than i do anyone else here, it seems, but the way he handled things was in poor taste. On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 10:54 PM, William Beatybi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Sun, 7 Jun 2009, Harry Veeder wrote: Grok said no thanks, to the above. I am not sure why he should apologize for his off-topic postings, Political posting sent here, rather than to vtxB. If you expect him to reveal his true identity then that should be written in the rules. Nope. If any user misbehaves so badly that they draw complaints from the entire community, then I'll fix the problem, which includes crafting arbitrary and mysterious requirements on a whim. As with any professional community, people with real names are welcome, and people who hide their identities have marked themselves as probably criminal element in the eyes of the group ...although on internet, anonymity also means teenager, or newbie user. (Which of the three is worse?) To impress fellow professionals, always put your address and phone number in your sig. This is an unwritten societal rule which applies to the entire world, not just online or on vortex: try walking around downtown wearing a mask, see what happens. Perhaps vortex should require surrendering anonymity, but it's much work to do it right (to avoid fake identities.) If the political commentary incorporates *personal* insults, instead of There is very specifically no rule against insults on Vortex-L. However, people who habitually use personal insults will attract complaints from the entire community, and then... (see above.) (( ( ( ( ((O)) ) ) ) ))) William J. BeatySCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci
[Vo]:Brain scanning headsets!Sigh.
So, i downloaded this companies smaller developer kit a while ago, and was on their mailing list. They just finally released the big kahuna kit with headsets. If i had the money for investment, id be getting the big license, as i've an even dozen things i can do with those headsets. Sigh. Perhaps the better funding would be interested though. For those unaware, this is a company similar to the one that makes the Force trainer game that just hit the market, but more complex headsets. Basically wearable eeg's, with software to convert thought into numbers, for purpose of motion, controlling devices, ect. -- Forwarded message -- From: Emotiv Team a...@emotiv.com Date: Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 9:25 PM Subject: Emotiv Developer Program: SDK Headset Available Now To: alexander.holl...@gmail.com alexander.holl...@gmail.com Dear Alexander, We are very pleased to announce that the Emotiv SDK including an SDK headset is now available for immediate license. This product ships worldwide. The Emotiv SDK- Standard Edition includes an SDK Headset and our proprietary software toolkit that exposes our APIs and detection libraries. This is now available to independent developers and researchers for only $500. To license the SDK, please visit http://www.emotiv.com/corporate/1_0/1_6.htm Enterprise, Enterprise Plus and Research Plus Editions of the SDK are also available for license. More details on the Emotiv Developer Program can be found below. ___ You can choose an SDK License that best suits your development needs: If you are an independent developer or commercial enterprise: Introductory (SDKLite) - An introduction to the Emotiv SDK and APIs. For application developers who want to get started immediately. This introductory package includes a hardware emulator in place of the SDK neuroheadset. Standard - Single license - For indepedent developers who are creating free and commercial applications for the Emotiv EPOC that will be distributed exclusively through our Emortal online application store. Enterprise - Up to 5 licensed users - For companies that are creating proprietary applications using the Emotiv EPOC. ___ If you are a researcher or educational institute: Emotiv is committed to supporting the research community in developing more detections/applications that further improve the capability of Brain Computer Interface (BCI). We have created a program that takes into account the needs of educational institutions, research organizations as well as individual researchers that want to contribute their knowledge to further the field of BCI. Research Standard - Single license - For individual researchers and research groups that are developing free and/or commercial applications for the Emotiv EPOC that will be available exclusively through our Emortal online application store. Research Plus - Up to 5 licensed users - For research institutes that are developing new applications/detections utilizing raw EEG data from the Emotiv EPOC. ___ Please let us know via return email to a...@emotiv.com if you wish to license the Enterprise, Enterprise Plus or Research Plus versions of the Emotiv SDK. We look forward to collaborating and partnering with you to further the field of Brain Computer Interface technology. Best regards, Emotiv Team Emotiv Systems Inc. LEGAL NOTICE This message (including all attachments) contains confidential information intended for a specific individual and purpose, and is protected by law. Any confidentiality or privilege is not waived or lost because this email has been sent to you by mistake. If you have received it in error, please let us know by reply email, delete it from your system and destroy any copies. This email is also subject to copyright. Any disclosure, copying, or distribution of this message, or the taking of any action based on it, is strictly prohibited. Emails may be interfered with, may contain computer viruses or other defects and may not be successfully replicated on other systems. We give no warranties in relation to these matters. If you have any doubts about the authenticity of an email purportedly sent by us, please contact us immediately.
Re: [Vo]:Relativistic magnetic fields and time
Since the magnetic field is em radiation of a sort, think of it like the classic spaceship with a flashlight scenario (which is the ONLY thing i have EVER found in physics that i still cannot wrap my mind against. I understand what it is saying, my brain just refuses to accept it as accurate) if your on a spaceship going .9 c, and you turn on your headlamps, the light will go forward at, to your appearence, c away from you, as if you were standing still. Now, someone on the spacestation you're passing would see you moving at .9 c, and the light moving at c, not at c away from you PLUS your velocity, but simply c away from you, but c from their perspective. now, this means you each see the light reaching different distances at the same time, which is where my mind rebels. (If i have this incorrect, someone PLEASE correct me, as it hurts my head...) On Sun, Jun 7, 2009 at 8:47 PM, Michael Crosiarcrosia...@yahoo.com wrote: Hello vortexians, Before I begin, I want to thank all of you. I have been lurking here for years. I have seen the trolls come and go. They amuse for a while, then they get old. But those of you who are of a true vortexian spirit always find new and exciting food for the mind to try out. I don't have the math or science background that you have, and yes, I am jealous. But obviously I do have the interest or I would have gone away a long time ago. I don't post much, guess I'm afraid I'll get shot down - and I know I wouldn't have had the time to follow and respond to my own threads - and that would suck for all of us. But circumstances change and I suddenly find I have much more time than I would like. I've grown a little older and am not so scared to raise my hand in class. So agian, thank you for sharing and thank you for putting up with my incessant lurking :) And if I go astray, please let me know, I have gained a deep respect for all of you. I will not be offended. I have a simple thought experiment I would like your comments on. We create a torroidal magnetic field and rotate it at relativistic velosities, such that the inside of the torroid would be rotating at near the speed of light. The outside of the field would extand outwards and would have an agular velocity that would be greater, proportional to the increase in circumference. First, is that correct? Clearly nothing can go faster than the speed of light, but as we increase the speed of the rotation, the energy must go somewhere, yes? Would this cause the mass of the field to change? In other words, would it bend space-time inside the field? And could the curvature be negative or positive depending on the direction of rotation relative to the N/S pole? Would time run at a different rate inside the field versus outside the field? If we were to place a radioactive isotope inside the field, could we cause it to decay faster or slower? I'll be anxiously awaiting your insights, C. Michael Crosiar
Re: [Vo]:Brain scanning headsets!Sigh.
It actually picks up brain waves, from my understanding. I know a bit more about the other company that makes similar. They have a headset with a single sensor, and it picks up concentration states and meditation states, basically. This is supposed to be the same thing, but with more pickups. they DO also have facial motion pickup, but not JUST facial motion pickup. http://news.cnet.com/8301-13772_3-9874515-52.html is a good article. ive unfortunately not had a chance to use a headset, just the basic software. Can't afford the headset myself. sigh. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 6:12 AM, Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: So, i downloaded this companies smaller developer kit a while ago, and was on their mailing list. They just finally released the big kahuna kit with headsets. If i had the money for investment, id be getting the big license, as i've an even dozen things i can do with those headsets. Sigh. Perhaps the better funding would be interested though. For those unaware, this is a company similar to the one that makes the Force trainer game that just hit the market, but more complex headsets. Basically wearable eeg's, with software to convert thought into numbers, for purpose of motion, controlling devices, ect. For real?? That's incredible. Have you used the headset successfully for anything? How's it go -- what do you actually need to do to manipulate stuff? And does it *really* pick up on brain waves, or is it actually picking up signals to the muscles just under the skin of the head? (The latter seems easier to implement and a *lot* easier to control, but might be considered far less stunning as an achievement.) Like, does it know when you're sleeping and know when you're awake, like Santa Clause, or can it only really tell stuff like whether you're frowning or smiling? From their web pages it's not entirely clear just how deep the brain wave sensing is that they're using, and the array of sensors *looks* like it could just as well be picking up muscle action by facial and neck muscles.
Re: [Vo]:Time Dilation and relativity. Was Relativistic magnetic fields and time
So... I think i followed all the math on that, very simple math, thank you! and, my original didnt start with lights being turned on with the ship passing the station, but that DOES simplify things. thanks! So... What your saying is that if you take into account time dilation, the light DOES really move the same distance in a set amount of time, once converted to local time, relative to both. so really, the light ISN'T traveling at c faster than the ship, it just APPEARS that way to O' due to time dillation? That makes more sense. But then, that just reinforces to me something that I feel, and that I've been told is not true. It just seems to me there should be then a central point, with a central time flow, and all other things are variants of that, based on their velocity relative to this fixed point. (center of the universe, if you will) I mean, if you were to leave a sattelite in space, not orbiting, but left behind in our orbit, moving just enough so that we come back to it in the same spot, relative to earth, next year, more time will have gone by, becuase its not moving as fast, not orbiting round the sun, yes? Where does it end? what is the most non moving spot? On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 7:39 AM, Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: OK here goes. Response below is to Michael's original message and to Leaking's response. The reasponse to Leaking is lengthy; the response to Michael comes 'way down at the end, after it. leaking pen wrote: Since the magnetic field is em radiation of a sort, A magnetic field is a magnetic field, ça c'est tout. EM radiation is a wave in the field. As such they're different. Sound waves are not air, even though they travel in air. think of it like the classic spaceship with a flashlight scenario (which is the ONLY thing i have EVER found in physics that i still cannot wrap my mind against. I understand what it is saying, my brain just refuses to accept it as accurate) if your on a spaceship going .9 c, and you turn on your headlamps, the light will go forward at, to your appearence, c away from you, as if you were standing still. Now, someone on the spacestation you're passing would see you moving at .9 c, and the light moving at c, not at c away from you PLUS your velocity, but simply c away from you, but c from their perspective. now, this means you each see the light reaching different distances at the same time, which is where my mind rebels. No, on two counts. First, you've left out Fitzgerald contraction; the traveler on the spaceship sees the space station as being squished along the line of travel. The observers on the space station, OTOH, see the traveler's spaceship as being squished along the line of travel. (Symmetric, of course.) So, distance measures in the two frames of reference are wildly confused to start with, and trying to ask when something reaches some *distance* is going to result in confusion. Ask, rather, when it reaches a particular *point*. When we talk about a particular point in space and time, we call it an event. So, instead of asking about distance, let's drop a space beacon into the picture, and say the light hits the beacon, and let's ask about when and where that happens, rather than asking about how far the light has gone. Second, you've assumed at the same time means something, but when you're discussing two different frames of reference moving at relativistic speeds, it does *not*. The problem is not just time dilation, it's clock skew, and failure to ... er ... grok clock skew is the single biggest problem people run into in this area. The example as you wrote it is, of course, very fuzzy; it will take a lot more words to make it precise. To make it into something you can test (in a gedanken sense) we need to sharpen up the details. We've already started to do that by adding a beacon; we'll continue with the necessary sharpening now. You seem to have said the headlights are turned on at the moment when the ship passes the station. OK, let's take that as the origin, in both reference frames: The lights go on at time 0, at which time the ship is at location 0, and the station is at location 0, in both frames. You didn't specify a direction, but let's say that, as seen from the space station, the ship is moving along the X axis in the + direction, and the headlights, of course, are also shining along the X axis. So, we can reduce the problem to 1 spacial dimension and 1 time dimension. We need to name our coordinates: x = spacial location in the space station frame t = time in the space station frame x' = spacial location in the spaceship frame t' = spacial location in the spaceship frame Note that the space station is located at x=0 in its own frame of reference, and the space ship is located at x'=0 in the ship's own frame of reference, and those coordinates don't change (you're always stationary relative to yourself
Re: [Vo]:Time Dilation and relativity. Was Relativistic magnetic fields and time
So, its not velocity that causes time dillation, thats simply a convenient way of reffering to it. Its the difference in actual space traveled during the interval compared to going in a geodesic, or straight line? which, honestly, is a sum of the velocities of the trip of the non geodesic object, yes? (damn, i think i reconfused myself) Thank you very very much btw for taking the time on this Stephen! On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:23 AM, Stephen A. Lawrencesa...@pobox.com wrote: leaking pen wrote: So... I think i followed all the math on that, very simple math, thank you! and, my original didnt start with lights being turned on with the ship passing the station, but that DOES simplify things. thanks! So... What your saying is that if you take into account time dilation, the light DOES really move the same distance in a set amount of time, once converted to local time, relative to both. so really, the light ISN'T traveling at c faster than the ship, it just APPEARS that way to O' due to time dillation? You can view it that way, but it's a little hazardous, because time dilation isn't really just a simple number. Thinking of it as a simple ratio leads to a lot of confusion. Time dilation, expressed as a number, is dt/dtau for a particular observer, A, relative to a particular reference frame, F. The dt value is found by A, by looking at clocks which are stationary in frame F, as A passes them by. The dtau value is found by A by looking at A's own clock. Note well: A uses ONE clock in his/her own frame. A uses AT LEAST TWO CLOCKS in frame F, located at *different* points in frame F. You can't measure time dilation between two inertial frames without using at least two clocks in one of the frames, because once the observer has passed a clock, it's gone, and they can't see it any more (except at a distance and using a telescope adds unnecessary hair without changing the result). Thus, time dilation actually measures the rate at which time passes along a *particular* *path*. Something that measures a rate of change along a path is a directional derivative, or a 1-form. It's not a simple number. That makes more sense. But then, that just reinforces to me something that I feel, and that I've been told is not true. It just seems to me there should be then a central point, with a central time flow, and all other things are variants of that, based on their velocity relative to this fixed point. (center of the universe, if you will) There may be but there doesn't have to be. As far as I know nobody knows for sure if there is. I mean, if you were to leave a sattelite in space, not orbiting, but left behind in our orbit, moving just enough so that we come back to it in the same spot, relative to earth, next year, more time will have gone by, becuase its not moving as fast, not orbiting round the sun, yes? Where does it end? what is the most non moving spot? No, the difference is not because the Earth is moving faster. First, let's agree to ignore the Sun's gravity because paying attention to it would throw us into GR. Let's assume the Earth is just tied to a string or something to keep it in orbit. Now, with that assumption, here's the difference: The satellite we dropped is in an inertial frame -- it's not accelerating. The Earth's frame, on the other hand, is not inertial -- it's accelerating the whole time, due to the pull on that string. To deal with acceleration, we don't need GR but we do need some differential geometry and I'm not going to try to write that out in flat ASCII here (and besides I'm too rusty). In simple terms, the distance along any path you might follow through (4-dimensional) space time is called the interval, and for a particular observer (like the Earth) the interval is equal to the elapsed proper time of that observer. So, how far you go, measured as interval, corresponds exactly to how many seconds pass on your wristwatch. The square of the interval between any two fixed points in an inertial frame is, by definition, (ignoring the Y and Z directions) delta_S^2 = delta_T^2 - delta_X^2 It's not hard to use the Lorentz transforms to show that, for an inertial observer in motion with regard to an inertial frame, that definition of interval gives us the square of the observer's elapsed proper time between any two events in the frame. (Not hard but I'm not going to do it right here.) It's also not hard to show that the interval between any two events is the same, no matter what inertial frame you use to evaluate it. The infinitesimal interval traveled by an astronaut A, from the point of view of an observer O, is dS^2 = dt^2 - dx^2 and since it's infinitesimal we can use that formula for an astronaut who is *accelerating*. At the infinitesimal scale, where A's velocity hardly varies, we can find the infinitesimal change in A's proper time -- which is to say, how much A's clock
Re: [Vo]:BAN ON POLITICS still in effect here
the difference between science and hard facts, and politics and opinion? seems easy to me. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, David Jonssondavidjonssonswe...@gmail.com wrote: How do you make the differentiation between politics and physics? Hard. Best wishes, David On 6/8/09, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Mark S Bilk wrote: So anyone who speaks out against U.S. government policies is well justified in doing so anonymously. In this case anonymity does _not_ mean: probably criminal element ...teenager, or newbie user. Then I'll permanently ban him from both lists, as well as everyone else who attempts to make that sort of politics the central feature of vortex-L. He can quietly come back with a real name, talk science, and make no attempt to attract the FBI to the vortex forum. And I suggest you think twice about making excuses for such slimy dishonest behavior. There are THOUSANDS of very serious problems in the world, and self-promoters invariably use this fact as an excuse to push their personal agendas into forums devoted to other subjects. Get rid of all the science here? Since you personally have FAR more important topics that need to dominate the discussions? But note well that the people trying this are never creating their own forums and calling for users. Instead they invade other lists and ignore the existing community while hiding their intent behind dishonest excuses. It's a common Troll trick. Take such discussion to your own new forum, or to any number of politics- centered lists, or just vtxB, keep it OFF this one. After a few weeks or months this idea might sink in, and we can go back to normal. In the mean time: producing ionizing radiation with light water electrolysis: simple enough for a school science fair, but nobody bothers to give it a try: http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/368TGP_oriani.pdf (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci -- Sent from my mobile device David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:Relativistic magnetic fields and time
I think the fault lay in my not realizing that time dillation would have an effect on the observed velocity of light. Very stupid of me not to think, and then, i wouldn't have assumed that the time dillation perfectly slides with that difference in velocity. thanks though! On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:11 AM, Michael Crosiarcrosia...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi Leaking Pen, I have to admit I cheated and looked ahead to Stephens reply. His reply is far better than I could ever give. I will reply anyway as maybe I will get corrected and learn something new... Since the magnetic field is em radiation of a sort, think of it like the classic spaceship with a flashlight scenario (which is the ONLY thing i have EVER found in physics that i still cannot wrap my mind against. I understand what it is saying, my brain just refuses to accept it as accurate) I don't believe that a magnetic field is itself em radiation. By expanding or collapsing the magnetic field we can induce EM radiation. I see the magnetic field as a result of the geometry of space-time itself and that is what I'm trying to explore. if your on a spaceship going .9 c, and you turn on your headlamps, the light will go forward at, to your appearence, c away from you, as if you were standing still. Now, someone on the spacestation you're passing would see you moving at .9 c, and the light moving at c, not at c away from you PLUS your velocity, but simply c away from you, but c from their perspective. now, this means you each see the light reaching different distances at the same time, which is where my mind rebels. (If i have this incorrect, someone PLEASE correct me, as it hurts my head...) The basic problem I see here is not recognizing the differing frames of reference. On the spaceship space and time have been contracted, time is not moving forward at the same rate as for the person on the spacestation. Also you are trying to measure distance, but the yard sticks you are using are not the same length. Further, if you are going to measure how long something takes to happen, an event, you also need a measure of time, which is also different in each frame of reference. So you are not using the same yard stick or the same clock, so it is hard to make comparisons about distance or how long something takes to happen, or at what time an event has happened from each of the different frames of reference. The question I have is, is the lorentz contraction purely a mathmatical construct, or has the movement of the spaceship at .9c actually modified the space-time it occupies in such manner that the measurements have been changed? Can an outside observer on the spacestation determine by any means that space-time of the spaceship has been contracted? For example, if we observed a star that the spacecraft was passing in front of, would we experiance a brief refraction of the light from the star as the spacecraft passed in front of it? C. Michael Crosiar
Re: [Vo]:BAN ON POLITICS still in effect here
if you have to believe you have missed the point. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:59 AM, Jeff Finkrev...@ptd.net wrote: Politics will ultimately determine the brand of physics we are allowed to believe. Jeff -Original Message- From: David Jonsson [mailto:davidjonssonswe...@gmail.com] Sent: Monday, June 08, 2009 12:46 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:BAN ON POLITICS still in effect here How do you make the differentiation between politics and physics? Hard. Best wishes, David On 6/8/09, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Mark S Bilk wrote: So anyone who speaks out against U.S. government policies is well justified in doing so anonymously. In this case anonymity does _not_ mean: probably criminal element ...teenager, or newbie user. Then I'll permanently ban him from both lists, as well as everyone else who attempts to make that sort of politics the central feature of vortex-L. He can quietly come back with a real name, talk science, and make no attempt to attract the FBI to the vortex forum. And I suggest you think twice about making excuses for such slimy dishonest behavior. There are THOUSANDS of very serious problems in the world, and self-promoters invariably use this fact as an excuse to push their personal agendas into forums devoted to other subjects. Get rid of all the science here? Since you personally have FAR more important topics that need to dominate the discussions? But note well that the people trying this are never creating their own forums and calling for users. Instead they invade other lists and ignore the existing community while hiding their intent behind dishonest excuses. It's a common Troll trick. Take such discussion to your own new forum, or to any number of politics- centered lists, or just vtxB, keep it OFF this one. After a few weeks or months this idea might sink in, and we can go back to normal. In the mean time: producing ionizing radiation with light water electrolysis: simple enough for a school science fair, but nobody bothers to give it a try: http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/368TGP_oriani.pdf (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci -- Sent from my mobile device David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
Re: [Vo]:BAN ON POLITICS still in effect here
im sorry, science has happened with a downright COMBATIVE political framework. large scale corporate science, now that takes a sociopolitical framework for funding and such. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 10:48 AM, Harry Veederhvee...@ncf.ca wrote: The irony is science cannot happen without a supportive political framework. Harry - Original Message - From: leaking pen itsat...@gmail.com Date: Monday, June 8, 2009 12:53 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:BAN ON POLITICS still in effect here the difference between science and hard facts, and politics and opinion? seems easy to me. On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 9:45 AM, David Jonssondavidjonssonswe...@gmail.com wrote: How do you make the differentiation between politics and physics? Hard. Best wishes, David On 6/8/09, William Beaty bi...@eskimo.com wrote: On Mon, 8 Jun 2009, Mark S Bilk wrote: So anyone who speaks out against U.S. government policies is well justified in doing so anonymously. In this case anonymity does _not_ mean: probably criminal element ...teenager, or newbie user. Then I'll permanently ban him from both lists, as well as everyone else who attempts to make that sort of politics the central feature of vortex-L. He can quietly come back with a real name, talk science, and make no attempt to attract the FBI to the vortex forum. And I suggest you think twice about making excuses for such slimy dishonest behavior. There are THOUSANDS of very serious problems in the world, and self-promoters invariably use this fact as an excuse to push their personal agendas into forums devoted to other subjects. Get rid of all the science here? Since you personally have FAR more important topics that need to dominate the discussions? But note well that the people trying this are never creating their own forums and calling for users. Instead they invade other lists and ignore the existing community while hiding their intent behind dishonest excuses. It's a common Troll trick. Take such discussion to your own new forum, or to any number of politics- centered lists, or just vtxB, keep it OFF this one. After a few weeks or months this idea might sink in, and we can go back to normal. In the mean time: producing ionizing radiation with light water electrolysis: simple enough for a school science fair, but nobody bothers to give it a try: http://pages.csam.montclair.edu/~kowalski/cf/368TGP_oriani.pdf (( ( ( ( ( (O) ) ) ) ) ))) William J. Beaty SCIENCE HOBBYIST website billb at amasci com http://amasci.com EE/programmer/sci-exhibits amateur science, hobby projects, sci fair Seattle, WA 206-762-3818 unusual phenomena, tesla coils, weird sci -- Sent from my mobile device David Jonsson, Sweden, phone callto:+46703000370
[Vo]:unsubscribe
unsubscribe
Re: [Vo]:unsubscribe
whoops, thanks terry. i even recall when that happened previously. and... my other email was already subscribed? da hell? On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 12:55 PM, Terry Blantonhohlr...@gmail.com wrote: you have to send that to vortex-l-requ...@eskimo.com On Mon, Jun 8, 2009 at 2:24 PM, leaking penitsat...@gmail.com wrote: unsubscribe
Re: WAY OFF TOPIC Making Saddam Hussein the enemy
heck, some of us here in the us have a problem than anyone EVER believed it, let alone still do. On 12/15/05, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I was just writing to a friend in Europe,explaining that some Americans still believe thatSaddam Hussein was responsible for the 9/11 attack, and that he was in cahoots with BinLaden. Europeans find it difficult to believethat anyone still buys that. They shouldn't,because a leading European statesman explained and perfected the technique: The art of leadership . . . consists inconsolidating the attention of the people againsta single adversary and taking care that nothingwill split up that attention. . . . The leader ofgenius must have the ability to make different opponents appear as if they belonged to one category.Adolf Hitler (1889–1945), Mein Kampf, vol. 1, ch. 3 (1925).- Jed-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: Productive Sequestering
only gets rid of it for so long though. On 12/16/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://www.impactlab.com/modules.php?name=Newsfile=articlesid=6827 The energy industry has found a new way to dispose of the greenhousegas carbon dioxide: pump it back into the underground oil reservoirsfrom whence much of it came.Not only does the project dispose of the nasty CO2, the pressure from the gas helps to extract more oil. ___Try the New Netscape Mail Today!Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: Productive Sequestering
lesse... gas, stone. you tell me? its going to end up in any water source that runs through it, bubling out, bubbling through the small holes in the rock, and eventually be released enmasse as holes open up due to geological activity. On 12/16/05, Jed Rothwell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: leaking pen wrote:only gets rid of it for so long though.Why? Does it gradually leak out of the underground reservoir? - Jed-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: weird glow from aluminum in baking soda solution
first thought, id have to do it to match, but the color of the glow is similar to burning baking soda. it could simply be the layer on the alluminum valence jumping. On 12/19/05, William Beaty [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See below!-- Forwarded message --Date: Sun, 18 Dec 2005 22:35:07 -0600 From: Brian Whatcott betwys1@Reply-To: Forum for Physics Educators [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Electroluminescence DemoMix 1 tablespoon baking soda in 1 pint water.Cut two electrodes from an aluminum pie dishPlace the elctrodes on opposite sides of a jam-jar.Connect the electrolytic cell in series with a 75 watt lamp to a 120 volt AC line supply - or better, through a 1:1isolation transformer.Care!The light quickly dims.In a dark room, the electrodes glow.See http://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/borax.htmWhat is the mechanism?Brian WhatcottAltus OKEureka!-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: weird glow from aluminum in baking soda solution
i go with that. especially, as i said, the color matches when you burn it. therefore it makes sense that we have electrons jumping to higher valence energy levels, and emitting when they drop. On 12/19/05, Robin van Spaandonk [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In reply toWilliam Beaty's message of Mon, 19 Dec 2005 10:50:46-0800 (PST):Hi,[snip]Mix 1 tablespoon baking soda in 1 pint water. Cut two electrodes from an aluminum pie dishPlace the elctrodes on opposite sides of a jam-jar.Connect the electrolytic cell in series with a 75 watt lampto a 120 volt AC line supply - or better, through a 1:1 isolation transformer.Care!The light quickly dims.In a dark room, the electrodes glow.Seehttp://home.earthlink.net/~lenyr/borax.htm What is the mechanism?[snip]If the electrodes do indeed form diodes, and the glow occursduring reverse bias, then that is when a high voltage falls acrossa very thin chemical layer. The electron leakage current could be sufficiently accelerated to produce energetic electrons capable ofexciting high energy (i.e. blue) transitions within the atoms.Regards,Robin van Spaandonk http://users.bigpond.net.au/rvanspaa/Competition provides the motivation,Cooperation provides the means.-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: BMW ICE Steam Hybrid
becuase... running a sirling off the heat from the engine coolant and block is innefficient? On 12/20/05, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally, someone finds a practical way to use the wasted ICE heat: http://www.gizmag.com/go/4936/The concept uses energy from the exhaust gasses of the traditionalInternal Combustion Engine (ICE) to power a steam engine which alsocontributes power to the automobile ? an overall 15 per cent improvement for the combined drive system.___Try the New Netscape Mail Today!Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: BMW ICE Steam Hybrid
okay, i hadnt looked that close at the schematics. you're right, they ARE using the other waste heat as well. On 12/20/05, Stephen A. Lawrence [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: leaking pen wrote: becuase...running a sirling off the heat from the engine coolant and block is innefficient?Who says the actual engines they're using aren't similar to Stirlingengines?They pipe the hot fluids to a pair of expansion units butthe article doesn't say what's inside those units. In any case recapturing 80% of the exhaust heat sounds pretty impressiveto me.Looks like they had a glance at steam locomotives before they designedit :-) ... notice that both circuits, low and hi temp, first make steam (or should we say steam -- not sure it's actually water they'reboiling!) and then superheat it at the back of the exhaust pipe?Theold steam locomotives used a very similar trick, boiling the water and then running the steam through the boiler again before using it.Ofcourse the second pass is upstream of the first pass in the exhaustcircuit.Did you notice the photo of a man holding his hand on the exhaust pipe with the engine operating?Pretty cool...Notice also that both system, low and high temp, use the radiator of thecar for the cold reservoir.The first stage of the low-temp circuit appears to suck hot water directly from the engine and dump the heatfrom it into the radiator.In fact, the diagrams make it appear asthough there is no longer any direct connection from the engine to the radiator.And elsewhere, Merlyn said: Yup, but do they run into problems with backpressure? Cooling the exhaust necessitates that it becomes denser.I have heard that backpressure can be a problem with exhaust cooling, but do not have the references handy.[Again, that's Merlyn, not LP!]I would suspect not, for a couple reasons.First, muffling an engine puts a _lot_ of backpressure on it, and takes away about 10% of its power IIRC.(This is one reason small airplanesare often so noisy -- a muffler would be too big a power drain.)Butnote that they can probably ditch at least one muffler when they put this in the exhaust system:going through a heat exchanger veryprobably has about the same effect on the noise as going over thebaffles of a conventional muffler.So, they're most likely trading onesource of backpressure for another, rather than just adding one.(I assume BMW's normally have more than one muffler, of course!)Second, boat engines have used water-cooled manifolds for just aboutever and they apparently work just fine.No doubt a little power isstolen, but that's the only bad consequence AFAIK.And according to the numbers, BMW's seeing a significant increase in power from this, sothey're clearly reclaiming more energy than they're losing through thebackpressure increase.Keep in mind that the cost of the backpressure is really just the cost of pumping the exhaust through the heat-exchanger.Surely, onecan arrange a heat-exchanger to extract more heat from hot gasses thanthe pump that operates it consumes; otherwise steam engines couldn't work! On 12/20/05, *[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]* [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Finally, someone finds a practical way to use the wasted ICE heat: http://www.gizmag.com/go/4936/ The concept uses energy from the exhaust gasses of the traditional Internal Combustion Engine (ICE) to power a steam engine which also contributes power to the automobile ? an overall 15 per cent improvement for the combined drive system. ___ Try the New Netscape Mail Today! Virtually Spam-Free | More Storage | Import Your Contact List http://mail.netscape.com -- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: OT: global warming humour
ha. i love that old joke. was first told to me by an apache that was simply called grandfather by everyone, even MY grandfather, about 10-15 years back. he loved the reaction of people that would laugh, start to stop thinking it might be offensive, then break up again. On 1/9/06, Grimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 01:42 pm 09/01/2006 -, Reme wrote:snip...Two weeks later the Chief called the National Weather Service again. Are you absolutely sure that the winter is going to be very cold?Absolutely, the man replied. It's looking more and more like it is goingto be one of the coldest winters ever. How can you be so sure? the Chief asked.The weatherman replied, The Indians are collecting firewood like crazy.He He!I really did laugh out loud at the dénouement of that one.8-) Frank-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
Re: Has Physics Gone Nuts?
i think leon lederman put it best. In The God Particle, he outlined the two distinct schools that have developed, the theorist and the experimenter. there are those that come up with the math, the theory, and then those that get up and actually do it. it used to be one and the same, but its become a split breed. and it seems to me we have WAY too many theorists and not enough experimenters. On 1/10/06, Zell, Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Forgive this rant, but I couldn't resist.I came across a paper calledAlteration of Nuclear Beta Decay by Non-Nuclear Strong Fields( Laser Physics Vol. 9 No.1 1999 pp. 92-97)It asserts that beta decay in radioactive elements could be triggered byexternal applied EMF - and that this could be a powerful new energy source!Were it possible, accelerated decay of highly forbidden beta decaymaterials would be the ideal long-term energy sourceThe study is one of many that have appeared over the years,done by H.R. Reiss of the American University.It uses arcane and complexmathematicsto make it's point.So, lemme get this straight, as an outside observer:The year is 1999and the issue of the radioactive constant, independent of all outside influencesSTILL HASN'T BEEN SETTLED?You mean that there is no body ofexperimental results as yet to settle the issue? ( Yup, I got my TeslaCoiland diathermy machine and some radium needles and put this theory to bed)Is physical reality solely determined by mathematics?Is that the soledeterminant of truth these days?Is this reasonable especially if suchbeta decayIs triggered by events in the quantum realm - which could be purely arbitrary?Yes, statistical analysis works - but the quantum arenaultimately just isas argued by Victor Stenger in Decoherence theory ( a skeptics answer tonon locality).Who knows - until somebody actually DOES THE EXPERIMENTS and STOPS ARGUING ABOUT MATH ACROSS DECADES OF TIME!If I was a Creationist, I'd jump on this like a hungry lion on agazelle.Whether it works or not is hardly the point ( although itwould be wonderful if it did!) - what's happened to physics these days?Has it gone nuts?OK, I feel better now.Rant over.-- Monsieur l'abbé, I detest what you write, but I would give my life to make it possible for you to continue to writeVoltaire
