[Felvtalk] OT FIP wasRe: Merlot
"The abdominal pain sounds more like FIP, to be honest, but I have a FIP cat who also responded remarkably to the Winstrol, so same advice" Hi Amani, I'm interested in you're associating abdominal pain with FIP. Could you point me in the direction of more information? How was the diagnosis made for your cat?Thanks for any help,Margo-Original Message- From: Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> Sent: Oct 19, 2015 12:22 PM To: "felvtalk@felineleukemia.org" <felvtalk@felineleukemia.org> Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Merlot <zzz!--[if !mso]=""><zzz![endif]--><zzz!--[if gte="" mso="" 9]=""> <zzz![endif]--><zzz!--[if gte="" mso="" 9]=""> <zzz![endif]--> Then get the Winstrol ASAP. My cat was in an oxygen tent and his haemotocrit was down to 5 before I got the Winstrol into him. The abdominal pain sounds more like FIP, to be honest, but I have a FIP cat who also responded remarkably to the Winstrol, so same advice. Call the vet today and speak to him about getting the Winstrol right away. I understand that it can be injected though I have never done that. If the vet is able, starting with an injection might give Merlot a faster boost. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maya D'Alessio Sent: October-19-15 12:04 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Merlot Thanks for the advice re. the winstrol. I am honestly concerned about him making it past the next few days. His abdomen is really sore/tense/uncomfortable and he complains heavily when being moved/picked up/palpated. Do you have any idea if that fits with the FeLV? On Mon, Oct 19, 2015 at 11:59 AM, Amani Oakley <aoak...@oakleylegal.com> wrote: Maya I would be pretty sure that the platelet drop is from FeLV and I am not sure why that is stumping the vets. FeLV can attack any one of the three cell lines (red cells, white cells and platelets) because it effects the bone marrow where these cells are all produced. Thus, when FeLV begins to affect a cat, you can get a drop in one or two or all three of the cell lines. In addition to the treatment he is getting, ask the vet to put him on Winstrol. I have posted here many times, and will again, that Winstrol is the only medication I found effective that actually turned back on the cell production of the bone marrow. He can remain on the prednisolone and the Doxycycline. Even though the Doxycycline is an antibiotic and thus not effective against viruses, my vets have said that they have gotten some positive results from using it with FeLV cats. I used it with my cat, in addition to the Prednisolone and the Winstrol, but having used the Doxycycline and Prednisolone WITHOUT the Winstrol first, I can confirm that it was the Winstrol that did the trick (confirmed by weekly monitoring of my cat’s blood work – checking specifically for haematocrit levels, RBC levels, Reticulocyte levels, white cells (total, neutrophils and leukocytes) and platelet counts. (I have posted this before, but just so that you know, before moving to Winstrol, I had my cat on Interferon – which did nothing to his blood work results at all – and then LTCI – which again had no positive result on the bloodwork.) Winstrol (Stanozolol) is an anabolic steroid which usually is required to be ordered from a compounding pharmacy. The dose I used was 1 mg 2x a day. If you want to confirm the effectiveness as I did, place Merlot on the Winstrol and after a week or two, run his haematology blood work again. You should start seeing a nudging up of the red cells, although the platelet counts in my cat at least, were the last to respond to the Winstrol. Don’t give up if there is no change in 2 weeks, and you will likely also get a bump up in his appetite and his general feeling of wellbeing (playing, purring, etc.) Merlot may start having his liver enzymes rise. Resist the urge or the advice of your vet to discontinue the Winstrol. The liver enzymes will very likely drop after he is weaned off the Winstrol, and for the time being, the more important thing is to deal with his failing bone marrow. Amani From: Felvtalk [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Maya D'Alessio Sent: October-19-15 10:10 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Merlot Merlot was admitted to the vet hospital this morning. His fever is persisting and we still have no idea as to cause. Last night they tested for pancreatitis and that test came back normal. He got sub-Q fluids and they sent him home with us. He has vomitted a few times and he has not really kept down any nutrition since Saturday morning. They just did an x-ray but there is no obvious issue. They are going to do a barium contrast imaging series now after they administer IV fluids and antibiotic
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP/RAW DIET
Hi, Can you explain what the raw diet is? Is it your own concoction of food? I feed my FELV the Science Diet dry food. She seems to be doing very well on it. I also supplement with one pouch of Whiskas Gravy Sensations. I have heard of the Lysine. Where do I get it for the cats and the name? Thanks. Dotty - Freehold. From: Tracey Shrout dtshr...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Saturday, February 18, 2012 6:12 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Vicky, I can't tell you much about the FIP, but as for the FELV, I can tell you the most important thing you can do for them is give them a good species-appropriate diet. I recommend a homemade or commercial raw diet. My felv+ (Abbey) has been on it for over 3 years and is doing remarkably well. She was dying when I got her as a stray. All her symptoms practically disappeared when I started feeding her the raw diet -- it was nothing short of amazing. I also supplement her diet with 250mg of l-lysine in her food daily, and I also give her 1/2 capsule of Transfer Factor tri-factor Plus everyday. I may be just one of the lucky ones, but I doubt it. I tribute her good health to her diet. This diet will keep their immune system functioning at its fullest. Feed it to all your cats. See catinfo.org and catnutrition.org. Low stress is also key to good health. As for the vomiting, I would almost guarantee this diet will cure that. 5 or 6 years of vomiting can wreak havoc on a cats health. You didn't mention what you were feeding them. Dry food? That may be the culprit with the vomiting. Could be he is allergic to something in the food, or if it contains grains, that could be the culprit. Cats cannot digest grains...period. That is why lots of cats vomit on a regular basis. Yes, get your negative vaccinated every year as long as he doesn't have a reaction to it. I would definitely keep him after being re-homed so many times. Just my 2 cents...Good luck with your kitties! Tracey (in Indiana) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
no posts? sent this morning and didn't echo back. cz___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Must be a problem on your end because I am receiving and posting! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of czadna sacarawicz Sent: Wednesday, February 22, 2012 4:43 PM To: feline leukemia list Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP no posts? sent this morning and didn't echo back. cz ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Dear Vicky, I haven't been involved in the felvtalk emails for awhile and I really do not know the history of your cat or why you are considering FIP. I do know that FIP is often fatal and relatively rapidly so. If you are truely dealing with FIP, I have known only one individual who has successfullly treated the disease. She used high dose IV Vitamin C. If you really believe it's FIP you need to treat aggressively, and now. There are tests that can be done to support your suspicions. FIP is generally believed to be an over active immune response to a particular mutated virus. The virus can be tested for, but not the mutated type. Additionally, elevated levels of total protein and globulins can suggest FIP. If you have other cats in the house and you suspect FIP, separate them. The virus is intestinal and easily transmitted in multicat homes. You never know who will get the mutated type though. If you're intestered in trying IV vitamin C, you will have to commit to finding a vet to administer it, be okay with putting in an IV catheter for three days a week for four weeks, and be able to get a hold of the Vitamin C. I know a pharmacy that supplies it. It costs about ten dollars a vial and the vial should last you for one week so total about thirty or forty dollars for the treatment. The vet bills would be additional. Things your vet would need to watch for during the infusion are hypoglycemia (feed the cat during the infusion, it takes about an hour, maybe two depending on how slowly you want to infuse) and hypocalcemia (this is really really rare but it is always better to be prepared than not) - they should have calcium gluconate on hand. Additionally it helps to give oral vitamin C after the infusion to avoid withdrawl issues. I can give you more specifics if you're interested Hope this helps. Jenny On Sat, Feb 18, 2012 at 5:12 AM, Tracey Shrout dtshr...@gmail.com wrote: Vicky, I can't tell you much about the FIP, but as for the FELV, I can tell you the most important thing you can do for them is give them a good species-appropriate diet. I recommend a homemade or commercial raw diet. My felv+ (Abbey) has been on it for over 3 years and is doing remarkably well. She was dying when I got her as a stray. All her symptoms practically disappeared when I started feeding her the raw diet -- it was nothing short of amazing. I also supplement her diet with 250mg of l-lysine in her food daily, and I also give her 1/2 capsule of Transfer Factor tri-factor Plus everyday. I may be just one of the lucky ones, but I doubt it. I tribute her good health to her diet. This diet will keep their immune system functioning at its fullest. Feed it to all your cats. See catinfo.org and catnutrition.org. Low stress is also key to good health. As for the vomiting, I would almost guarantee this diet will cure that. 5 or 6 years of vomiting can wreak havoc on a cats health. You didn't mention what you were feeding them. Dry food? That may be the culprit with the vomiting. Could be he is allergic to something in the food, or if it contains grains, that could be the culprit. Cats cannot digest grains...period. That is why lots of cats vomit on a regular basis. Yes, get your negative vaccinated every year as long as he doesn't have a reaction to it. I would definitely keep him after being re-homed so many times. Just my 2 cents...Good luck with your kitties! Tracey (in Indiana) __**_ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/**mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_** felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Vicky, I can't tell you much about the FIP, but as for the FELV, I can tell you the most important thing you can do for them is give them a good species-appropriate diet. I recommend a homemade or commercial raw diet. My felv+ (Abbey) has been on it for over 3 years and is doing remarkably well. She was dying when I got her as a stray. All her symptoms practically disappeared when I started feeding her the raw diet -- it was nothing short of amazing. I also supplement her diet with 250mg of l-lysine in her food daily, and I also give her 1/2 capsule of Transfer Factor tri-factor Plus everyday. I may be just one of the lucky ones, but I doubt it. I tribute her good health to her diet. This diet will keep their immune system functioning at its fullest. Feed it to all your cats. See catinfo.org and catnutrition.org. Low stress is also key to good health. As for the vomiting, I would almost guarantee this diet will cure that. 5 or 6 years of vomiting can wreak havoc on a cats health. You didn't mention what you were feeding them. Dry food? That may be the culprit with the vomiting. Could be he is allergic to something in the food, or if it contains grains, that could be the culprit. Cats cannot digest grains...period. That is why lots of cats vomit on a regular basis. Yes, get your negative vaccinated every year as long as he doesn't have a reaction to it. I would definitely keep him after being re-homed so many times. Just my 2 cents...Good luck with your kitties! Tracey (in Indiana) __**_ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/**mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_**felineleukemia.orghttp://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Both vaccines, FIV and FIP, will make cats test POSITIVE forever! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Christiane Biagi Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Think u r referring to the fiv vaccine Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry for the long message. Vicky ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Hi everyone Great source of info on FIP is The Orion Society. They have a list, just like this one that deals with FIP. I had a cat die from it years ago, still breaks my heart. Horrible disease, but true, hard to read blood tests. I would highly suggest checking out the list. A great big bunch of knowledgeable people on there, dedicated to dealing with this disease. It was my understanding, that the cat has to be exposed over and over again to a particular coronavirus. On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.netwrote: ** Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - *From:* Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee *From:* GRAS g...@optonline.net *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! *From:* felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] *On Behalf Of *Kathryn Hargreaves *Sent:* Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM *To:* felvtalk@felineleukemia.org *Subject:* Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry for the long message. Vicky ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90
[Felvtalk] FW: FIP
Also, DO NOT VACCINATE against FIV - cat will always test positive.even when not! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Lynda Wilson Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:41 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] FIP Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans mailto:moonsiste...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Fw: FIP
- Forwarded Message - From: Lee Evans moonsiste...@yahoo.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 2:46 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP I didn't know there was a vaccine for FIP. I know there's a vaccine for FIV which causes the cat to test positive for FIV. If the cat is picked up by animal control or someone rescues the cat should he/she get lost, the cat will test positive for FIV and most likely be euthanized because there are still vets who think that this is a fatal and contagious disease and most animals controls will put the cat down immediately. From: Marcia Baronda marciabmar...@gmail.com To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 12:11 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Hi everyone Great source of info on FIP is The Orion Society. They have a list, just like this one that deals with FIP. I had a cat die from it years ago, still breaks my heart. Horrible disease, but true, hard to read blood tests. I would highly suggest checking out the list. A great big bunch of knowledgeable people on there, dedicated to dealing with this disease. It was my understanding, that the cat has to be exposed over and over again to a particular coronavirus. On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 10:40 PM, Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :(... ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
This is true for FIV. There is no FIP vaccine. There is no test for FIP. Sharyl - Original Message - From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Both vaccines, FIV and FIP, will make cats test POSITIVE forever! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Christiane Biagi Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Think u r referring to the fiv vaccine Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry for the long message. Vicky ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Try searching for FIP nosodes in Google. There are some out there with 50% success rates. On Thu, Feb 16, 2012 at 2:02 PM, Sharyl cline...@yahoo.com wrote: This is true for FIV. There is no FIP vaccine. There is no test for FIP. Sharyl - Original Message - From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Both vaccines, FIV and FIP, will make cats test POSITIVE forever! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Christiane Biagi Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Think u r referring to the fiv vaccine Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
There are drops that are put into the nose for FIP as a vaccine . Reliable diagnosis is based on all the symptoms put together and much more easily recognized when it’s the wet form of FIP with “ascites’. From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Sharyl Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 6:03 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP This is true for FIV. There is no FIP vaccine. There is no test for FIP. Sharyl - Original Message - From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Cc: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 11:10 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Both vaccines, FIV and FIP, will make cats test POSITIVE forever! -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Christiane Biagi Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 11:46 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Think u r referring to the fiv vaccine Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
did she also have a tendecy to avoid the liter box. Casey does that. Marta Gasper marta.gas...@yahoo.com wrote: Vicky..abt kitty #2 that you said vomits a lot, it isn't necesaraly b/c he's long haired..I assume you meant he hacks up hairballs, or does he vomits clear liquid? Clear could be trying to bring up a hairball too but at 11 I'd have him checked for a renal condition. Cats with CRF throw up very often, I had a 10 yr old that was sick almost every other day, she was fine otherwise but her kidneys were failing. I didn't know the first year until she had a senior panel. So if you haven't done it, I'd suggest you go that route for him. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
can you refer me to info that says FIP vaccine makes cat test positive? Can't say that I have heard that before. I do know that if the cat was previously exposed to corona vitus, it is ineffective. Gary -- From: GRAS g...@optonline.net Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2012 10:10 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] FIP Both vaccines, FIV and FIP, will make cats test POSITIVE forever! ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] FIP
Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry for the long message. Vicky ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Think u r referring to the fiv vaccine Christiane Biagi Sent from my Samsung Epic™ 4G Lynda Wilson longhornf...@verizon.net wrote: Just a note regarding FIP. Please be advised not to vaccinate against it. The vaccine is very controversial and the cat will ALWAYS test positive for it if given the vaccination.. This is too important not to mention L - Original Message - From: Lee Evans To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:04 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions There is no reliable test for FIP. Your cat tested positive for corona virus. Most cats will test positive for corona virus and never get ill. FIP is caused by a form of corona virus to which some cats are genetically predisposed to contract if exposed to it. FIP is not rare but it's definitely not very prevalent. I have had cats who tested above 400 for corona virus and never got FIP and a cat who definitely had FIP but tested very low for corona virus. He had apparently been exposed to the form that he was predisposed to contract. He was also a street cat, in poor health in general. Lee From: GRAS g...@optonline.net To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 7:40 PM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions YES! From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Kathryn Hargreaves Sent: Wednesday, February 15, 2012 4:52 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] New and Some Questions Anyone: do you have to repeat the Felv vac every year? On Wed, Feb 15, 2012 at 6:46 AM, Vicky Eyal vi...@droreyal.co.za wrote: Hi Everyone I am new to this list and to the world of Feline Leukemia. We have 3 precious cats, and we found out at the end of last year that two are FeLV positive, and of those two, one is FIP positive as well :( Details: Kitty1 (11 years old, male) is the reason we got any of them tested at all. He was just a little off - more subdued, less energy, a little on the skinny side. He tested positive for FeLV and FIP. Our vet put him on a round of cortisone and antibiotics, and he seemed to bounce back. He still isn't completely 100% though (although hard to pinpint actual behaviours, more just a general sense I have), and is still skinnier than I would like. Kitty2 (11 years old, male) also tested positive for FeLV (but not FIP). He currently has no noticeable symptoms at all, although he does vomit a lot. This has been going on for 5-6 years though, and he is long-haired, so I don't think it is related. Kitty3 (1 year old, male) tested negative for both viruses (and FIV). We had him vaccinated against FeLV when he tested negative, and he had the booster 4 weeks later. We will continue to give him the vaccination every year. If you got through all of this, thanks so much. Now my questions: Q1. I want to start Kitty1 on some form of treatment, just to build him up/keep him strong. I have the sense that all is not 100%, even although he is not noticeably unwell, is eating fine etc. I was thinking of asking our vet to start Interferon. Any thoughts here? Suggestions? Would something else be better? Would it be bad to start a treatment like this before he is noticeably sick? What is the recommended dosage here? Q2. Is there anything I should be doing for Kitty2. He seems fine, hasn't lost weight etc. He does throw up a lot, but has for the last 5-6 years. Q3. We have decided to keep Kitty3 instead of rehoming him, after a lot of thought. He has had 3 homes in the last year (a shelter rescue who was then neglected by the person who adopted him... g...), and he is so settled with us, that I worry about trying to find him yet another home. I think he must have been exposed by now in any case (the older boys would groom him on the face when he was little), so my prayer is that he has immunity. Am I being naive here? Should we find him another home? Q4. Any tips, advice, suggestions on what I can do to prolong our boys' lives with a reasonable quality? Thanks so much in advance. And sorry for the long message. Vicky ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Go Get a Life---Go Get a Shelter Animal! Ask your local animal pound to start saving over 90% of their intake by implementing the No Kill Equation: http://www.nokilladvocacycenter.org/ Legislate better animal pound conditions: http://www.rescue50.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] FIP
Vicky..abt kitty #2 that you said vomits a lot, it isn't necesaraly b/c he's long haired..I assume you meant he hacks up hairballs, or does he vomits clear liquid? Clear could be trying to bring up a hairball too but at 11 I'd have him checked for a renal condition. Cats with CRF throw up very often, I had a 10 yr old that was sick almost every other day, she was fine otherwise but her kidneys were failing. I didn't know the first year until she had a senior panel. So if you haven't done it, I'd suggest you go that route for him. Marta http://homelessnomore.webs.com/___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Note treatments for FIP, FeLV, FIV
Note treatments for FIP, FeLV, FIV New treatments for atopic dermatitis, feline stomatitis, feline infectious peritonitis (FIP), feline leukemia virus (FeLV), immunodeficiency virus (FIV; cat AIDS) and other frustrating diseases that affect millions of dogs, cats, and horses. Also, shelter discounts, etc. http://www.imulantrials.com/Home_Page.html ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Good points. We've just learned so much skepticism about everything FIP. I'm wondering also - how do you get a vet to do something different - like a vitamin C drip? I know one vet who would and could do that, I'm pretty sure - but she's 60 miles away, and I have trouble finding free time to do drive away for a day.. Guess I just have to look around some more locally. Gloria On Nov 25, 2009, at 9:33 AM, jbero tds.net wrote: I think you all have valid points. Here are my thoughts. 1. Overdiagnosis of FIP - this is way hard to estimate because the diagnosis is difficult to come by. In fact, the pathophysiology of the disease is poorly understood so it may actually represent a constellation of diseases. In the end, however, the question is treatment. I think it is foolish to give a diagnosis of FIP if you are simply going to give up and put the animal down. If, however, you have no other explanation and the clinical signs are highly suspicious then you have to look at the possibility that it is. That's what I see happened in this case. Given that, what are you going to do. You have no other explanation, so how do you treat, do you wait until they die and do an autopsy to prove it's FIP or do you try something. I would try something. 2. Skepticism - I understand skepticism because I have tried and failed on more than one occassion with difficult viral diseases in cats. I really get that. What I do not understand (and if someone can enlighten me, I would be open to it) is how someone can see an animal suspected to have FIP, treated successfully and then say it was not FIP. How does one know that, how does one know that they did not successfully treat the disease? If someone says the only way to truely diagnose is by autopsy and the cat survived, prove to me they did not have FIP. If someone is saying it's not FIP only on the basis that the cat survived, well that's a useless statement to me. The skepticism works both ways - you can be skeptical it wasn't or skeptical it was. But in the end the difference is the treatment. I know it's not perfect science but medicine never is. So if you have tested for a number of common diseases, and all but the coronavirus were negative; there was a familial association, recent history of stress (spay, neuter, vaccination) in a young cat, and clinical signs/symptoms of the disease - short of putting the animal down and doing an autopsy, you've got a good of a diagnosis as you can get. 3. Medicine in general - Medicine is truely an art. Every individual is different. Every individual responds differently to life, stress, disease and treatment. Simply because a treatment works on one animal and not another does not mean they carry a different diagnosis. Especially in an immune related disease. The spectrum of disease presentation can be broad and the spectrum of response to treatment can be equally as broad. Does that mean we don't try? I don't think so. We all fail, it's whether or not we get back up and try again that determines our character. High dose Vitamin C appears to work for some (and there is a good scientific basis for why if you look into close enough) maybe not for all, but at the very least, it is an option where there are so few. I respect all you for your dedication to understanding, treating and erradicating the diseases that plague these animals. I know we are all trying to do what's best for them. We each may have a different approach but I am glad to know there are people like all of you with such a desire and passion to help. I have learned from all of you. God bless. Jenny On 11/24/09, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP
A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit of sadness. I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments and in an effort to provide more details about what happened and help you see the timeline, I submit the following histories. Note: This will be in two parts because of length limits. Lukey 1. My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now believe was FIP. He had been healthy and given the best supplements, diet and care possible. When his furnished garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while we recovered from the flooding. The stress of the ordeal triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease. I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because his chronic high fevers, inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and blood transfusion and his anemia was improving. At that time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation. Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips (the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP. However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his intestines felt gummy and she realized that we had probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it. Had I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after that. We just didn't know what we were dealing with. During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing everything possible to save him and his care was very hands on. Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage and use it faithfully before coming back into the house among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant contact and syringe feeding of Lukey. Again, keep in mind that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP. In the household were three young kittens who were pulled from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before they were scheduled to be PTS. At the time of Lukey's first symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP, the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old. Continued in next post . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP
A few days ago I posted about the reversal of FIP that I saw in my kitten Angelica on high dose intravenous ascorbic acid and have been following these subsequent posts with some bit of sadness. I believe Jenny makes the most valid arguments and in an effort to provide more details about what happened and help you see the timeline, I submit the following histories. Note: This will be in two parts because of length limits. Lukey 1. My FeLV cat Lukey died on October 1 from what we now believe was FIP. He had been healthy and given the best supplements, diet and care possible. When his furnished garage home was flooded in August 2009 we had to relocate the three FeLV cats including Lukey to the back porch while we recovered from the flooding. The stress of the ordeal triggered an illness in Lukey, though at the time it was thought he was just in the end stages of the FeLV disease. I now believe it was FIP for a number of reasons, not the least of which is because his chronic high fevers, inappetence, lethargy and weight loss continued for weeks and weeks, even when he responded to the LTCI injections and blood transfusion and his anemia was improving. At that time it didn't occur to me that some latent FIP might have been triggered by the stress of the flooding and relocation. Despite our efforts, including two separate vitamin C drips (the only time when Lukey appeared to feel better), Lukey died after placement of an esophageal feeding tube and even then it did not occur to me that he could have had FIP. However, his vet later mentioned that during placement of the feeding tube while Lukey was under anesthesia his intestines felt gummy and she realized that we had probably been dealing with FIP all along and missed it. Had I only known, in retrospect (based only on what I learned after the death of Chuckie below), I should have put Lukey on the ascorbate drips according to the protocol provided by Wendell Belfield, DVM, pushed him to the highest possible dosage (2g per pound of body weight), and continued the drips until his fevers came down and then for 4-5 days after that. We just didn't know what we were dealing with. During the time we cared for Lukey we were focused on doing everything possible to save him and his care was very hands on. Though we keep buckets of hand sanitizer in the garage and use it faithfully before coming back into the house among our other cats, it is very possible that we carried FIP into the household on our clothes from the constant contact and syringe feeding of Lukey. Again, keep in mind that we were not focused on the possibility that he had FIP. In the household were three young kittens who were pulled from a Kentucky kill shelter at just six weeks of age before they were scheduled to be PTS. At the time of Lukey's first symptoms in late August 2009 of what we now believe was FIP, the kittens were only 3 1/2 months old. Continued in next post . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2
Part 2 Chuckie The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica, were altered and received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009. (Note, again, Lukey died on October 1). On October 8 the kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still asymptomatic at that time. About 12-15 days later one of the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and stopped eating just as Lukey had done. Between October 20 and October 31, despite extended vet visits, hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA, PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures, x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one specialist, the diagnosis remained fever of unknown origin and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of antibiotics and steroids. Still thinking that his illness was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught that the conventional approach was failing and his condition declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his original diagnosis). We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better with his fever down. Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's office would be closed over the weekend. He still seemed better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking around with me. By the time the vet opened again on Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was critical, with severe neurological involvement including ataxia and head tremors. He was hospitalized that day and the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my cats to exhibit this illness). More blood was drawn from Chuckie and sent for analysis. Where he had previously been negative across the board on all test results numerous times except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for dry FIP. He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic exam including granulomas. Chuckie was so very sick on the day that these positive test results returned and clearly dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him. At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA money that we received from the flooding, we would have been in tremendous debt. Meanwhile, Angelica is still hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic involvement. Continued in next post . . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 2
Part 2 Chuckie The kittens Tommy, Chuckie and Angelica, were altered and received their rabies vaccinations on September 20, 2009. (Note, again, Lukey died on October 1). On October 8 the kittens then received FVRCP vaccinations and were still asymptomatic at that time. About 12-15 days later one of the male kittens, Chuckie, became lethargic and feverish and stopped eating just as Lukey had done. Between October 20 and October 31, despite extended vet visits, hospitalizations, and negative test results except for mild anemia (Haemobartonella, toxoplasmosis, coronavirus, ELISA, PCR, normal lymphocytes and globulins, urine cultures, x-rays, ultrasounds) with three different vets including one specialist, the diagnosis remained fever of unknown origin and the only thing done for him was a bucket load of antibiotics and steroids. Still thinking that his illness was perhaps triggered by the vaccination, and distraught that the conventional approach was failing and his condition declining, on October 31 I took him straight from a week-long hospitalization with one vet to the vet I had used for intravenous vitamin C treatments for my FeLV cat with lymphosarcoma (who is still alive two years after his original diagnosis). We put Chuckie on a vitamin C drip that day of 5g daily (1g per pound of body weight as we had used for Linus) for six days, with double drips morning and evening on the last two days, and he appeared much better with his fever down. Unfortunately, the drip was stopped on Thursday because his veins were shot from all of his earlier hospitalizations and blood draws and also because the vet's office would be closed over the weekend. He still seemed better on Saturday and was even out in the yard walking around with me. By the time the vet opened again on Tuesday, November 10, however, Chuckie's condition was critical, with severe neurological involvement including ataxia and head tremors. He was hospitalized that day and the drip restarted, along with his sister Angelica who was now manifesting with identical symptoms (the third of my cats to exhibit this illness). More blood was drawn from Chuckie and sent for analysis. Where he had previously been negative across the board on all test results numerous times except for chronic mild anemia, the new results returned with rising coronavirus titers and a PCR test positive for dry FIP. He also had eye involvement on ophthalmoscopic exam including granulomas. Chuckie was so very sick on the day that these positive test results returned and clearly dying that there was no alternative but to euthanize him. At this point the vet bills for Lukey, Chuckie and Angelica have totaled nearly $4000 and had it not been for some FEMA money that we received from the flooding, we would have been in tremendous debt. Meanwhile, Angelica is still hospitalized and following right behind Chuckie with identical symptoms even including some transient neurologic involvement. Continued in next post . . . Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3
Part 3 Angelica By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough. Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I was not totally sure that these cats could handle even greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses. Then I went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy the virus. I finally began to see the big picture. We were not using enough vitamin C. Lukey had responded to a couple of drips but they were not continued because we thought the anemia was killing him. Chuckie had responded to at least five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his fever first went down and we thought he was out of the woods, though clearly he was not. Now we have Angelica heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and finally, I knew what to do. Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were both hospitalized on November 10. Chuckie died on November 11 and Angelica was kept on the drip. Because she had not been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie had received, her immune system was in better shape and we had a better shot at saving her. Remembering how we had failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak immune system, because his drips were too low, and because the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did fine and was kept at this level for 11 days. Her fever would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her home, though each morning when I would return for her next daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105. This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the 7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for the next drip. Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with the drips. By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C abruptly. To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic and has made her way back to baseline and beyond. She plays with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate enough to avoid the FIP. She eats like a pig and is getting both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing vitamin C. Though each morning I remember the scenario with poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus. Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Part 3
Part 3 Angelica By now, after the deaths of my two precious boys Lukey, and then baby Chuckie, it was becoming clear that we were definitely seeing FIP in all three and on the right track with the intravenous ascorbate but just not using enough. Because Chuckie's immune system had been so terribly weakened by his earlier conventional treatment with numerous different antibiotics and steroids, we were up against a wall going into his IV ascorbate treatment, and even then, I was not totally sure that these cats could handle even greater amounts of ascorbate for their illnesses. Then I went digging for more information from Dr. Belfield's papers on how he had treated various diseases and I continued to see a recurring theme - the more grave the illness and virulent the virus, the more vitamin C it takes to destroy the virus. I finally began to see the big picture. We were not using enough vitamin C. Lukey had responded to a couple of drips but they were not continued because we thought the anemia was killing him. Chuckie had responded to at least five days' worth of drips but they were stopped when his fever first went down and we thought he was out of the woods, though clearly he was not. Now we have Angelica heading down the same path to the same sad fate, and finally, I knew what to do. Angelica was put on a drip alongside Chuckie when they were both hospitalized on November 10. Chuckie died on November 11 and Angelica was kept on the drip. Because she had not been dosed with the antibiotics and steroids that Chuckie had received, her immune system was in better shape and we had a better shot at saving her. Remembering how we had failed with Chuckie, in retrospect because of his weak immune system, because his drips were too low, and because the drips were stopped prematurely, Angelica's drips were titrated up rapidly to 2g (2,000 mg) per pound of body weight based on Belfield's protocol for severe disease, and though I wasn't sure how she would handle this load, she did fine and was kept at this level for 11 days. Her fever would drop by the end of each drip and I would take her home, though each morning when I would return for her next daily drip, her fever would be right back up to 104-105. This went on for the first 6 days of treatment and by the 7th day her fever was holding down when we would return for the next drip. Remembering the words of Dr. Belfield that the animal should be kept on the drip until the fevers REMAINED down for at least four days, we continued on with the drips. By the day of her last drip, day 11, her fever had been down for nearly five days and we felt comfortable stopping the drips, though large doses of vitamin C were added to her food to prevent her from suffering a rebound scurvy effect from stopping the high dose vitamin C abruptly. To date, Angelica continues to be asymptomatic and has made her way back to baseline and beyond. She plays with the third of her litter mates, Tommy, who was fortunate enough to avoid the FIP. She eats like a pig and is getting both raw and canned food laced with vitamins and ongoing vitamin C. Though each morning I remember the scenario with poor Chuckie as I reluctantly proceed to feel Angelica's little ears and body for any sign of a fever, by God's grace and the miracle of ascorbic acid she remains cool and with each day that passes I believe we have beat this virus. Sally Snyder Jewell Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without http://www.hearttech.com/books_and_videos.html a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final
I made some tiny urls for the links Sally listed in her post. Guide to the Use of Vitamin C http://tinyurl.com/Clinical-guide-Vit-C Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine http://tinyurl.com/Megascorbic-paper Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control http://tinyurl.com/Belfields-paper Sharyl --- On Thu, 11/26/09, S. Jewell ssjew...@bellsouth.net wrote: From: S. Jewell ssjew...@bellsouth.net Subject: [Felvtalk] My experience with IV ascorbic acid and FIP - Final To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 26, 2009, 12:26 PM I posted a couple of links earlier that I found helpful throughout the course of this nightmare and I post them again below for those of you who may wish to undertake the intravenous ascorbate protocol for your cats with FIP, FeLV, URI, and other cat diseases. If I had it to do over again, each of my three cats would have been placed immediately on the ascorbate and kept there until their fevers eradicated, for only then is the virus also eradicated and left powerless to replicate or resurface. I have also used intravenous ascorbate with one of my cats with life-threatening upper respiratory infection (and chronic pseudomonas aeruginosa) in conjunction with antibiotics. She received a single vitamin C drip on Friday, then antibiotics in her IV on Saturday and by Sunday night her symptoms were all but gone (except of course for the P.A.). And as I posted previously, my FeLV cat Linus has carried a diagnosis of lymphosarcoma for nearly two years and because of ongoing intermittent IV sodium ascorbate drips which create hydrogen peroxide in the extracellular tissue and destroy cancer cells, he is still seemingly healthy and happy. As you can clearly see, the power of vitamin C extends well beyond what one would expect from a vitamin and according to Dr. Belfield, it has the power to heal and reverse a broad range of viruses and conditions in veterinary medicine. It is tragic that Belfield saw these same remarkable results back in the 1960s in his own vet practice yet still today, some 40+ years later, with rare exception conventional vets are not even aware of the power of this miracle acid in veterinary medicine. But at least those of you reading this are and I hope it is of benefit to you. If you have questions or I can help any of you in any way, please don't hesitate to contact me, either on this board or via e-mail at ssjew...@bellsouth.net. God bless each of you for your big hearts and compassion for animals and hopefully this information will help you in your own rescue work. Clinical http://www.google.com/search?source=ighl=enrlz==q=clini cal+guide+to+the+use+of+vitamin+caq=foq=aqi=g1 Guide to the Use of Vitamin C Megascorbic http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_in t_assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm Prophylaxis and Megascorbic Therapy: A New Orthomolecular Modality in Veterinary Medicine An http://www.belfield.com/pdfs/Feline_Leukemia.pdf Orthomolecular Approach to Feline Leukemia Prevention and Control www.Belfield.com http://www.belfield.com/ . The http://www.amazon.com/Very-Healthy-Cat-Book-Vitamin/dp/0070 04354X Very Healthy Cat Book, by Wendell Belfield, DVM Sally Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I think you all have valid points. Here are my thoughts. 1. Overdiagnosis of FIP - this is way hard to estimate because the diagnosis is difficult to come by. In fact, the pathophysiology of the disease is poorly understood so it may actually represent a constellation of diseases. In the end, however, the question is treatment. I think it is foolish to give a diagnosis of FIP if you are simply going to give up and put the animal down. If, however, you have no other explanation and the clinical signs are highly suspicious then you have to look at the possibility that it is. That's what I see happened in this case. Given that, what are you going to do. You have no other explanation, so how do you treat, do you wait until they die and do an autopsy to prove it's FIP or do you try something. I would try something. 2. Skepticism - I understand skepticism because I have tried and failed on more than one occassion with difficult viral diseases in cats. I really get that. What I do not understand (and if someone can enlighten me, I would be open to it) is how someone can see an animal suspected to have FIP, treated successfully and then say it was not FIP. How does one know that, how does one know that they did not successfully treat the disease? If someone says the only way to truely diagnose is by autopsy and the cat survived, prove to me they did not have FIP. If someone is saying it's not FIP only on the basis that the cat survived, well that's a useless statement to me. The skepticism works both ways - you can be skeptical it wasn't or skeptical it was. But in the end the difference is the treatment. I know it's not perfect science but medicine never is. So if you have tested for a number of common diseases, and all but the coronavirus were negative; there was a familial association, recent history of stress (spay, neuter, vaccination) in a young cat, and clinical signs/symptoms of the disease - short of putting the animal down and doing an autopsy, you've got a good of a diagnosis as you can get. 3. Medicine in general - Medicine is truely an art. Every individual is different. Every individual responds differently to life, stress, disease and treatment. Simply because a treatment works on one animal and not another does not mean they carry a different diagnosis. Especially in an immune related disease. The spectrum of disease presentation can be broad and the spectrum of response to treatment can be equally as broad. Does that mean we don't try? I don't think so. We all fail, it's whether or not we get back up and try again that determines our character. High dose Vitamin C appears to work for some (and there is a good scientific basis for why if you look into close enough) maybe not for all, but at the very least, it is an option where there are so few. I respect all you for your dedication to understanding, treating and erradicating the diseases that plague these animals. I know we are all trying to do what's best for them. We each may have a different approach but I am glad to know there are people like all of you with such a desire and passion to help. I have learned from all of you. God bless. Jenny On 11/24/09, Gloria B. Lane gbl...@aristotle.net wrote: I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I do think that part of the issue with this fortunate situation, is that some of us have seen vets call anything they can't explain, or anything with a high corona titer, FIP, and it's frustrating, for lack of a better word. I had a lovely healthy Persian kitten that died AFTER spay surgery, a few years ago, and the vet said must have been FIP. I think the vet and his assistant probably just weren't careful with her airway after surgery, after they put her back in the cage. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 5:00 PM, Diane Rosenfeldt wrote: I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
That's what I understand. ITs proved through necropsy of the dead cat. However, with certain signs yellowish fluid from the belly, high corona titre, etc, vets tend to project that a cat has FIP. I heard by the grapevine recently that Cornell is doing FIP research. I am always very interested in and respect Dr. Belfield's approaches, so am very interested in this and will have to read more. Gloria On Nov 23, 2009, at 8:08 AM, MaryChristine wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
The skepticism is by people who have dealt with FIP and been brought to our knees by it. Any active rescue person has seen repeated cases of FIP. We have tried all manner of treatment, very often without success. And when we have had what could be called success it was always a situation where we could not be sure that we were dealing with FIP. We've earned our skepticism the hard way and have learned not to get our hopes up with this disease. I am thrilled that your kitten survived. But I am not convinced that we now have a viable treatment for FIP. But I do hope for that to come eventually. --- On Mon, 11/23/09, jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net wrote: From: jbero tds.net jb...@tds.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Monday, November 23, 2009, 2:29 PM I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I haven't read all the posts in this thread, but did want to make one point -- just in case it hasn't been addressed previously (although with the knowledge base here, I can't imagine it hasn't). So apologies if this is a dead horse but: It's been drummed into me that the presence of coronavirus alone is not an indicator for FIP since many if not most cats have it in their systems. This has been such a cause of panic even among vets who should know better and has resulted in so many needless deaths that I thought it bore repeating. What causes the coronavirus to mutate into FIP is a combination of heredity, circumstance, and possibly God having a sh-tty day and wanting to punish some innocents. All the best vibes to the kitten in question! Hang in there, darlin'. Diane R. -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of jbero tds.net Sent: Monday, November 23, 2009 4:30 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I find the skepticism and questioning surrounding the diagnosis and treatment of FIP interesting. I have to say, however, that every laboratory test, whether it be in human or veterinary medicine, is subject to failure; either giving false positives or false negatives. This is a far more common problem than most people may understand. Nothing is 100% in any test, ever. The best and really only currently known way to deal with this is by looking at the clinical presentation, history and lab work together. In this case, the presence of coronavirus in a related kitten, the age of the kitten, the clinical symptoms of fever, anemia and central nervous system impairment, I would say, that you are very very very likely looking at FIP or at least the entity in how it is understood. As far as diagnosing it by autopsy, it can also be done with a tissue biopsy. You are looking for pyogenicgranulomas, a histologic (microscopic) diagnosis. FIP is an entity that is not entirely understood therefore diagnosiing it accurately is difficult. It is simply a constellation of symptoms and lab work. That is precisely what you are looking at in this situation. What I am saying is that there is a cyclical line of reasoning here. FIP cannot be easily diagnosed and all are in agreement with that, so dismissing that this is FIP on the grounds that it's not been definitively diagnosed is nonsensical. Given the fact that it fulfills most of the criteria for FIP we have to go with the most likely scenario that it is. It fits a non effusive form of FIP almost perfectly. Given that, I am excited about the possibility of a treatment. Whatever this cat had, whatever you believe was the diagnosis (and by the way it is obvious that extensive tests, looking to identify alternate causes, were done). Whether you call FIP a wastebasket diagnosis, this cat responded and survived. The other cat, with identical symptoms, did not receive this full treatment and died. There is some success here, whatever your belief on the diagnosis is. I understand skepticism but there something happened here, even with don't fully understand what. Is it not worth, therefore, investigating? Well, that's just my opinion. Jenny On 11/23/09, MaryChristine twelvehousec...@gmail.com wrote: corona virus titres do NOT prove FIP. cats can have high FeCoV titres and not progress to FIP, and cats who have progressed to FIP can have low titres because their exposure was so long before that the virus itself is out of their systems, although the FIP mutation is not. FIP is the new favorite diagnosis for, we haven't a clue. like susan, i would love for there to be an answer for FIP--it's much worse than FeLV, because there's no way to predict who will get it, no way to prevent it, and no way to treat it. but calling everything FIP, as has become the habit over the past three years or so, just makes actual diagnosis and learning more muddier. MC -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Angelica's miracle comeback from FIP and how it occurred
For those of you who saw my earlier post about my kitten Angelica and have wondered how vitamin C could have possibly saved her from FIP, I thought that perhaps the information below would help to explain it and convince others to try this highly effective and completely benign treatment for infections and viruses in their own cats. According to the pioneer in vitamin C research Dr. Fred Klenner, vitamin C intravenously works as an oxidizing agent in massive amounts, i.e., 5-150 grams, for certain pathological conditions), and neutralizes toxins, viruses and histamine. The more serious the condition, the more C is required. The ascorbic acid enters all cells and proceeds to take up the protein coats being manufactured by the virus nucleic acid, thus preventing the assembly of new virus units. Cells expand, rupture and die, but there are no virus particles available to enter and infect new cells. If a virus has invaded a cell, the Vitamin C contributes to its breakdown to adenosine deaminase, which converts adenosine to inosine. Purines are formed which are catabolized (broken down) and cannot be used to make more virus nucleic acid. Viral nucleic acid has a protein coat which protects this parasite as it rides the blood or lymph highway to gain specific cell entry. It is possible that if the ascorbic acid can remove that protective protein coat in the blood stream or in the cells, the white cell phagocytes and immune globulin could then neutralize these vulnerable virus particles. Ascorbic acid also joins with the available virus protein, making a new macromolecule which acts as the repressor factor (interferon?) and multiplication of new virus bodies is inhibited. Anyway, Angelica is home tonight - no fever, eating like a pig, and playing with her remaining brother Tommy. Today was her last drip and tonight you would never know she had been sick. FINALLY with the help of my progressive and most helpful vet were able to save one of our cats thanks to the miracle of vitamin C! If only I had gotten Chuckie on the drip sooner he would likely still be alive. It breaks my heart to see my remaining two kittens playing together now without Chuckie, though I will always smile and think of him when I look at our miracle girl Angelica, for he paid the ultimate price to save his sister. Because of Chuckie I knew just what to do and what NOT to do to save Angelica, so he did not die in vain. Anyway, I thought this might help clarify why and how the intravenous vitamin C works on these viruses and pathogens. Few cats ever survive FIP but thanks to Wendell Belfield, DVM, Linus Pauling and the great vitamin C pioneers before them, mine did, and I will be forever grateful. :-) If you need more information or have questions about Angelica's treatment, feel free to ask. Sally Snyder Jewell Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Angelica's miracle comeback from FIP and how it occurred
For those of you who saw my earlier post about my kitten Angelica and have wondered how vitamin C could have possibly saved her from FIP, I thought that perhaps the information below would help to explain it and convince others to try this highly effective and completely benign treatment for infections and viruses in their own cats. According to the pioneer in vitamin C research Dr. Fred Klenner, vitamin C intravenously works as an oxidizing agent in massive amounts, i.e., 5-150 grams, for certain pathological conditions), and neutralizes toxins, viruses and histamine. The more serious the condition, the more C is required. The ascorbic acid enters all cells and proceeds to take up the protein coats being manufactured by the virus nucleic acid, thus preventing the assembly of new virus units. Cells expand, rupture and die, but there are no virus particles available to enter and infect new cells. If a virus has invaded a cell, the Vitamin C contributes to its breakdown to adenosine deaminase, which converts adenosine to inosine. Purines are formed which are catabolized (broken down) and cannot be used to make more virus nucleic acid. Viral nucleic acid has a protein coat which protects this parasite as it rides the blood or lymph highway to gain specific cell entry. It is possible that if the ascorbic acid can remove that protective protein coat in the blood stream or in the cells, the white cell phagocytes and immune globulin could then neutralize these vulnerable virus particles. Ascorbic acid also joins with the available virus protein, making a new macromolecule which acts as the repressor factor (interferon?) and multiplication of new virus bodies is inhibited. Anyway, Angelica is home tonight - no fever, eating like a pig, and playing with her remaining brother Tommy. Today was her last drip and tonight you would never know she had been sick. FINALLY with the help of my progressive and most helpful vet were able to save one of our cats thanks to the miracle of vitamin C! If only I had gotten Chuckie on the drip sooner he would likely still be alive. It breaks my heart to see my remaining two kittens playing together now without Chuckie, though I will always smile and think of him when I look at our miracle girl Angelica, for he paid the ultimate price to save his sister. Because of Chuckie I knew just what to do and what NOT to do to save Angelica, so he did not die in vain. Anyway, I thought this might help clarify why and how the intravenous vitamin C works on these viruses and pathogens. Few cats ever survive FIP but thanks to Wendell Belfield, DVM, Linus Pauling and the great vitamin C pioneers before them, mine did, and I will be forever grateful. :-) If you need more information or have questions about Angelica's treatment, feel free to ask. Sally Snyder Jewell Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. As most of you know, I lost my FeLV+ boy Lukey in October and we were never sure what actually caused his death, as though we were able to improve his red blood count with a transfusion and his lymphocytes were increasing with Imulan's LTCI, his fevers, weight loss and anorexia persisted. He died just after we had placed an esophageal feeding tube. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. For those of you who are interested, you can read more about Dr. Belfield's protocol and work in this field at http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. He also discusses successes and seroconversions in FeLV+ cats with the use of intravenous, injected and oral vitamin C, though the most success is seen with FeLV in cats who are newly diagnosed and the virus has not yet reached the bone. If I had a newly diagnosed FeLV cat that I was trying to save, I would certainly not hesitate to put it on intravenous and injectable ascorbate at high levels, since it is nontoxic and completely safe for the cat. The vials of sodium ascorbate are charged at around $25.00 per vial by my vet and there is enough product in a vial to get three or four high level drips out of it. The only other cost is placement of the catheter for the drip which can remain in place for up to four days. I have even hung the drips at home when the vet was good enough to loan me her infusion pump and it is not difficult to do. I am now buying my own infusion pump for future use because I would not be without this powerful weapon on behalf of my cats that I cherish. Anyway, If any of you has any questions about the protocol I used with Angelica for her FIP, feel free to write. You can also view
[Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. As most of you know, I lost my FeLV+ boy Lukey in October and we were never sure what actually caused his death, as though we were able to improve his red blood count with a transfusion and his lymphocytes were increasing with Imulan's LTCI, his fevers, weight loss and anorexia persisted. He died just after we had placed an esophageal feeding tube. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. For those of you who are interested, you can read more about Dr. Belfield's protocol and work in this field at http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. He also discusses successes and seroconversions in FeLV+ cats with the use of intravenous, injected and oral vitamin C, though the most success is seen with FeLV in cats who are newly diagnosed and the virus has not yet reached the bone. If I had a newly diagnosed FeLV cat that I was trying to save, I would certainly not hesitate to put it on intravenous and injectable ascorbate at high levels, since it is nontoxic and completely safe for the cat. The vials of sodium ascorbate are charged at around $25.00 per vial by my vet and there is enough product in a vial to get three or four high level drips out of it. The only other cost is placement of the catheter for the drip which can remain in place for up to four days. I have even hung the drips at home when the vet was good enough to loan me her infusion pump and it is not difficult to do. I am now buying my own infusion pump for future use because I would not be without this powerful weapon on behalf of my cats that I cherish. Anyway, If any of you has any questions about the protocol I used with Angelica for her FIP, feel free to write. You can also view
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Gary, Angelica's litter mate Chuckie died from confirmed FIP on November 11 with exactly the same symptoms and Angelica became symptomatic just about 10 days after Chuckie manifested with the disease. They were hospitalized together but Chuckie's disease was too advanced by the time we were able to administer the ascorbate due to lost time at vets and because of chronic antibiotic and steroid use for what was earlier diagnosed as FUO. His confirming final blood work returned on the day before he died with rising coronavirus titers and his PCR was positive for dry FIP. We did not see the need to perform the blood work on Angelica because she was showing identical symptoms to Chuckie with sustained high fevers, lethargy, inappetence, weight loss, and mild neurological involvement, though the biggest reason was that she was so early in the disease process that it would likely not have shown up anyway, as it took until the day before Chuckie died for his PCR to show the FIP. We had done blood work on him three times before that with negative corona virus titers and mostly normal results except for positive Dohle bodies and mild anemia. Rather than spend additional monies on blood work that would likely not have shown us anything so early in her disease process (as Chuckie's did not), we chose to allocate that money toward Angelica's treatment. We have discussed doing blood work now to confirm the presence of the coronavirus and we still may, though the focus obviously remains on completing her treatment first. She will receive her last drip tomorrow and will then receive subcutaneous injections of sodium ascorbate at home while we taper her off of the high dose vitamin C in an effort to avoid any rebound scurvy effect from stopping the C abruptly, since cats only make the human equivalent of 2,800 mg of vitamin C in the liver daily, far less than most other animals in the animal kingdom (a goat makes the human equivalent of 13,000 mg daily). This is the reason that domestic cats and dogs are so often ill with chronic and deadly viruses that their immune systems cannot fight off. Though they obviously still have the gulonolactone oxidase (GLO) enzyme that allows them to synthesize ascorbate from glucose in the liver, the suboptimal feeding of canned and processed diets has apparently altered their ability to synthesize it at high enough levels to sustain optimal health, hence the reason it is crucial that they receive supplemental vitamin C added to their food. Again, see http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. The third remaining litter mate, Tommy, to date appears asymptomatic and remains healthy. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:42 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
Gary, Angelica's litter mate Chuckie died from confirmed FIP on November 11 with exactly the same symptoms and Angelica became symptomatic just about 10 days after Chuckie manifested with the disease. They were hospitalized together but Chuckie's disease was too advanced by the time we were able to administer the ascorbate due to lost time at vets and because of chronic antibiotic and steroid use for what was earlier diagnosed as FUO. His confirming final blood work returned on the day before he died with rising coronavirus titers and his PCR was positive for dry FIP. We did not see the need to perform the blood work on Angelica because she was showing identical symptoms to Chuckie with sustained high fevers, lethargy, inappetence, weight loss, and mild neurological involvement, though the biggest reason was that she was so early in the disease process that it would likely not have shown up anyway, as it took until the day before Chuckie died for his PCR to show the FIP. We had done blood work on him three times before that with negative corona virus titers and mostly normal results except for positive Dohle bodies and mild anemia. Rather than spend additional monies on blood work that would likely not have shown us anything so early in her disease process (as Chuckie's did not), we chose to allocate that money toward Angelica's treatment. We have discussed doing blood work now to confirm the presence of the coronavirus and we still may, though the focus obviously remains on completing her treatment first. She will receive her last drip tomorrow and will then receive subcutaneous injections of sodium ascorbate at home while we taper her off of the high dose vitamin C in an effort to avoid any rebound scurvy effect from stopping the C abruptly, since cats only make the human equivalent of 2,800 mg of vitamin C in the liver daily, far less than most other animals in the animal kingdom (a goat makes the human equivalent of 13,000 mg daily). This is the reason that domestic cats and dogs are so often ill with chronic and deadly viruses that their immune systems cannot fight off. Though they obviously still have the gulonolactone oxidase (GLO) enzyme that allows them to synthesize ascorbate from glucose in the liver, the suboptimal feeding of canned and processed diets has apparently altered their ability to synthesize it at high enough levels to sustain optimal health, hence the reason it is crucial that they receive supplemental vitamin C added to their food. Again, see http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/197x/belfield-w-j_int _assn_prev_med-1978-v2-n3-p10.htm. The third remaining litter mate, Tommy, to date appears asymptomatic and remains healthy. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation Manufacturers of Pauling Therapy Formulas for Coronary Heart Disease Since 1996 http://www.HeartTech.com E-mail: sa...@towerlaboratories.com Toll Free: 1-877-TOWER-LABS (1-877.869.3752) Voice: 502.368.2720; 502.368.2721 Fax: 502.368.0019 Pauling Therapy Information Web site: http://www.HeartTech.com Pauling Therapy Order Link: http://www.PaulingTherapyStore.com -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of gary Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 12:42 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always afraid to utter it aloud, especially after losing two other babies to what I now believe was FIP in both cases, Angelica appears to have beaten this despicable disease thanks to the power of intravenous ascorbate and the work of vitamin C pioneers like Linus Pauling and Dr. Wendell Belfield in vet medicine. Sally Snyder Jewell ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I just posted the history about this and the testing that was performed a few minutes ago. If you need more information, let me know. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always
Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten
I just posted the history about this and the testing that was performed a few minutes ago. If you need more information, let me know. Sally Snyder Jewell, Marketing Director Tower Laboratories Corporation www.HeartTech.com 1-877-TOWER-LABS Practicing Medicine Without a License? The Story of the Linus Pauling Therapy for Heart Disease, by Owen Fonorow and Sally Snyder Jewell -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk- boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of Susan Hoffman Sent: Friday, November 20, 2009 1:09 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten I want a solution to FIP. FIP has killed cats in my care and ravaged my spirit. I do not foster tiny kittens because I cannot deal with FIP. So I want this to be real, a real solution to FIP. But I have to say The only way to make a definitive diagnoe of FIP is by necropsy. Was a necropsy performed? How do you KNOW it was FIP? --- On Thu, 11/19/09, gary gcru...@centurytel.net wrote: From: gary gcru...@centurytel.net Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Thursday, November 19, 2009, 9:42 PM I'm Very glad that Angelica has gotten better. However, at least with what you wrote, I don't see a diagnosis of FIP. Was this a diagnosis made by a vet? Were there some tests run with results that were indicative of FIP, or was this just from observation of clinical signs? Gary -Original Message- From: felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org [mailto:felvtalk-boun...@felineleukemia.org] On Behalf Of S. Jewell Sent: Thursday, November 19, 2009 9:02 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: [Felvtalk] Reversal of FIP in my six-month-old kitten Hi, All, Just dropping in to post about the success I have had in reversing FIP in one of my kittens. I pulled three six-week-old kittens from a kill shelter last June and they have been healthy, happy and thriving. Then, following their FVRCP vaccinations on October 8, 10 days later one of them, Chuckie, began with chronic high fevers, lethargy and inappetence. When he didn't rebound in a few days, I, like so many others, took him for conventional veterinary treatment which consisted of the routine antibiotics and steroids. When he did not respond to their treatment they simply returned a diagnosis of Fever of Unknown Origin, and sent me on my way, at which time I proceeded to a second, and yet a third specialty vet. They all returned the same diagnosis and basically dismissed Chuckie and me with no hope. I had no idea of what to do next but since I had seen such good results with intravenous vitamin C in my lymphosarcoma cat Linus (who is still alive nearly two years after his original diagnosis thanks to the treatments), I took Chuckie to my vet who performs the ascorbate treatments for me and Chuckie was started on IV ascorbic acid immediately. He received five days of the treatment but not consecutively and apparently at less then adequate dosages because though he seemed much improved by the fifth drip, we mistakenly stopped the drips thinking he would remain better and two days later he manifested with severe neurological symptoms and two days after that he was dead. At around the same time Chuckie was dying his sister Angelica then became sick with the identical symptoms and stopped eating and had some transient neurological involvement. This time, with the pain from Chuckie's death and failed conventional treatment still very fresh, I realized that if Angelica was going to be saved we would have to bypass conventional vet medicine and get her started on the intravenous ascorbate immediately. Her drips were begun on Tuesday, November 10 and according to the protocol of Wendell Belfield, DVM she was titrated up quickly to 2 grams per pound of body weight (she weighed 5 pounds and so she was receiving close to 10 grams of vitamin C intravenously by the third or fourth day). Vitamin C is a powerful virucidal and immune stimulant and because I work in this field, I am well familiar with the properties of this near miracle supplement. See http://www.seanet.com/~alexs/ascorbate/198x/smith-lh-clinica l_guide_1988.htm for information as to why and how vitamin C kills viruses. As of November 19, 2009 Angelica has received nine intravenous ascorbic acid drips and again, we were able to successfully achieve the 2g per pound (10,000 mg at each drip) with no side effects whatsoever. After her 6th drip her fevers began to remain down overnight (as Belfield predicted would happen), and now after 9 drips she is eating, putting on weight, and her fevers are consistently gone. Though I'm always
[Felvtalk] research information on FIP from Hideyo
Hideyo, Here is an update from the meeting with Dr. Niels Pedersen. I wonder if we could share this with the FelV group? I suggested this to Carol and she thinks that would be a great idea. Are you still member of the FelV group? If not I can ask Caroline Kaufmann to crosspost updates on the SockFIP project. Love and hugs, Marleen To: fipcatsupp...@yahoogroups.com From: carolm...@aol.com Date: Wed, 10 Dec 2008 06:01:20 + Subject: [FIPCatSupport] Coffee with Dr. Niels Pedersen Update Hello all, I attended the Coffee with Dr. Pedersen event last Tuesday at UC Davis. It was great to see the room almost full,with some new faces. The meeting was video taped and will be availabe to order on the SOCK FIP website soon. If you haven't visited yet, the web site is: http://www.SOCKFIP.org. Dr. P talked for about an hour about the research and the need to raise funds to accomplish this. SOCK FIP's efforts are gaining recognition, and I have personally delivered information to vets all around the San Francisco Bay Area. The initial genetics study will focus on two breeds, not because they experience FIP more often, but chosen because the size of the breed pools are manageable, not too large of a gene pool. (Birman and Burmese are the two breeds) Dr.Pedersen explained the research and milestones: The feline genome has now been sequenced twice, and needs to be done a few more times, then the pieces need to be put together ACCURATELY. The genome sequencing compliments the genetics research Dr. P has embarked upon. The completed study involved several families of cats, that experienced multiple FIP deaths in the colony, however, some were spared. Some cats were resistant, while others were susceptible. The first study has shown promising genetic markers, and with further research the goal is to unveil the mechanism that allows the corona virus to mutate to the deadly FIP form. This second phase of the genetics research involves a sizeable investment in technology from companies (such as Affymetrix). Dr. Pedersen's team will be collecting DNA swabs and blood samples for the data bank for the study to determine what genetic differences make a cat FIP resistant or susceptible. Arrays must be chosen, developed and purchased to collect and store the data for the project. Back in the 60's and 70's some of you may remember the FELV epidemic. ONE THIRD of all sick cats presented to veterinarians were infected, many cats died or were immediately euthanized. The original SOCK group was formed to raise funds for Dr. P's FELV research and he was successful in sending that disease back to nature. Now, thanks to Dr. P and the many individuals who donated to SOCK - mostly small donations from people like you and me, many hundreds of thousands of dollars were raised and DR P's FELV research was successful in developing vaccines and therapies to control FELV. We no longer fear FELV. It is SOCK FIP's mission to do the same with FIP. Government funding is not available to companion animal health research, and is 90% supported by animal lovers and individual donors. A matching donor has offered to match all FIP donations up to $10,000 that expires at year end 2008. Sadly, SOCK FIP hasn't raised much more than half that figure, and time is running out! Our timely donations NOW will count for DOUBLE! The initial technology investment will be a minimum $75,000, which seems like a daunting figure. Together WE can make a difference. Please do this for our kitties who have PASSED, our PRESENT kitties and for a cure for our FUTURE fur babies. Please join the cause and be an ambassador. Spread the word, join SOCK FIP! http://www.SOCKFIP.org Give what you can, as no amount is too small. Please send a a check made out to: UC Regents in the memo on check write FOR FIP RESEARCH - SOCK FIP (important!) Mail checks to: UC Davis - CCAH - School of Vet Medicine Atten: Lisa Woodard-Mink, Director of Major Gifts One Shields Ave. Dean's Office Davis, CA. 95616 In HOPE and Gratitude In Loving Memory of Fennster, Carol __._,_.___ Messages in this topic (1) Reply (via web post) | Start a new topic Messages | Files | Photos | Links | Polls | Members MARKETPLACE From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest | Switch format to Traditional Visit Your Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | Unsubscribe Recent Activity 5 New Members 6 New Photos 2 New Files Visit Your Group Y! Groups blog the best source for the latest scoop on Groups. Yahoo! Groups Do More For Cats Group Connect and share with cat owners like you Group Charity Be the Change A citizen movement to change the world . __,_._,___ Explore the seven wonders of the world Learn more! ___ Felvtalk mailing
[Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hello, I am desperately searching for a no kill shelter to take in three remaining kittens from a litter of 5 rescued a few months ago. We lost the first two to suspected fip (couldnt afford the biopsy to confirm). Already have 3 healthy permanently adopted rescues and no room at the inn for three with this complication. do you know of any shelters in the tri state area who specialize in fip? i have already contacted numerous already and they have no vacancies or cannot handle the fip thing. I am located in central pennsylvania. Thanks Lisa ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
Hi Caroline I love the term Gentle soul. My first to pass from FELV was this way. In fact he was so laid back we did not realize he was in trouble until it was too late. He crashed after being kept overnight on IV antibiotics. He imoroved enough for me to hold him happy and alert, and that same night he had seizures and was just a shell of himself when I visited him the next day. I sent him on his way to the Rainbows Bridge. He was never tested for FELV. Junior was tested the week Pumpkin died and was positive and so began a horrible year .I can only be happy yo have knowm Pumpkin for his short journey in my life. I had him 6 months. Sally ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soul mate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
I wrote earlier this week about Tessa's big belly. Before introducing her to my other kitties I wanted to be sure she did not have FIP. Our internal med vet offered to ultrasound her belly. She, too, was alarmed when she saw her. The ultrasound showed just fat cells, no liquid. Great way to diagnose...at least for the wet form! Laurie ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
Have you joined the FIP yahoo group? If not, do so. They are great. [EMAIL PROTECTED] FIP is not really contagious in the sense that Felv is. I have had 3 fosters die of it and all the other fosters that were exposed to them are fine. And it's not because they were foster-mates or exposed to each other. It doesn't work like that. FIP is caused by the corona virus, which all cats in a rescue situation (mine were from animal control) and/or multi-cat household are more than likely going to have high titers for, but that doesn't mean they have FIP. A high corona virus titer for a lot of cats will mean nothing. FIP is a mutation of the corona virus- the body's inappropriate immune response to corona. There are theories and beliefs about the factors that contribute to the reason why in one cat with the high titer, they come down with FIP, but in another, they may never-- not even the dry form in old age; and yes, I have my theories and of course I think I know why I had 3 that didn't make it. So, essentially, there's not really an argument for segregating- even if you have a cat with a fat belly and it could be wet fip. I'm far from an expert, so you should join the FIP group to get all the information. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:27:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP I wrote earlier this week about Tessa's big belly. Before introducing her to my other kitties I wanted to be sure she did not have FIP. Our internal med vet offered to ultrasound her belly. She, too, was alarmed when she saw her. The ultrasound showed just fat cells, no liquid. Great way to diagnose...at least for the wet form! Laurie ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
Thanks. Yes, I do belong. And thank-you for sharing your personal experience, too. A friend had one cat die from FIP at about 2 years of age and his litter mate lived to 18. My other cats are all 8 or older. Tessa is age unknown but at least a year old. L -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Have you joined the FIP yahoo group? If not, do so. They are great. [EMAIL PROTECTED] FIP is not really contagious in the sense that Felv is. I have had 3 fosters die of it and all the other fosters that were exposed to them are fine. And it's not because they were foster-mates or exposed to each other. It doesn't work like that. FIP is caused by the corona virus, which all cats in a rescue situation (mine were from animal control) and/or multi-cat household are more than likely going to have high titers for, but that doesn't mean they have FIP. A high corona virus titer for a lot of cats will mean nothing. FIP is a mutation of the corona virus- the body's inappropriate immune response to corona. There are theories and beliefs about the factors that contribute to the reason why in one cat with the high titer, they come down with FIP, but in another, they may never-- not even the dry form in old age; and yes, I have my theories and of course I think I know why I had 3 that didn't make it. So, essentially, there's not really an argument for segregating- even if you have a cat with a fat belly and it could be wet fip. I'm far from an expert, so you should join the FIP group to get all the information. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:27:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP I wrote earlier this week about Tessa's big belly. Before introducing her to my other kitties I wanted to be sure she did not have FIP. Our internal med vet offered to ultrasound her belly. She, too, was alarmed when she saw her. The ultrasound showed just fat cells, no liquid. Great way to diagnose...at least for the wet form! Laurie ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112 008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
Well let me know what they find out. Swollen belly/any type fluid filling in the abdomen is so scary. But god, that it's fip revelation from the doctor is honestly the worst of the worst. But it only happened to me with the 3rd and final one- and by then, when the results came back, he had already crashed and I had already made my decision. The first, Brumley, had dry fip (even tho he was a young cat- under 1)- uveitits. And the second, Possum, the fluid filled up so fast- it happened so fast- he was at the critical phase at the point at which it had become evident to me, tho he had failed to thrive for a long time. So tough to diagnose early on. What I find so interesting, is that the 3 that I have lost to FIP were what I have termed gentle souls. I use this term very infrequently as it is hard to find in humans, or animals. But truly, sweet, gentle, wouldn't harm a fly souls-- and cats at that! Which I can't even say that about my most beloved, my Monkee whom I lost to FELV-- b/c he was a killer!!!- a wolf in sheep's clothes! But these FIP boys, truly the sweetest things. Almost too sweet and too gentle to classify as cats! And it's just odd to me that the sweetest, gentlest fosters that I had, I lost to this very disease. Which is obviously what gets to me the most. And here my survivor of that rescue batch-- my Yoda, is the devil child incarnate! He hates my mom- for no reason at all- he's horrible towards her!!! And she held him in the palm of her hand and helped me nurse his sick little butt back to health and he's just an ungrateful, demon! He's just an evil lil thing! Not a gentle soul. And I'm sure I will be blessed to have his evil little self with me for the next 20 years!!! It is just odd that for me, FIP has taken the sweetest ones I have known. Good luck to you and keep us updated. ck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:40:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Thanks. Yes, I do belong. And thank-you for sharing your personal experience, too. A friend had one cat die from FIP at about 2 years of age and his litter mate lived to 18. My other cats are all 8 or older. Tessa is age unknown but at least a year old. L -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Have you joined the FIP yahoo group? If not, do so. They are great. [EMAIL PROTECTED] FIP is not really contagious in the sense that Felv is. I have had 3 fosters die of it and all the other fosters that were exposed to them are fine. And it's not because they were foster-mates or exposed to each other. It doesn't work like that. FIP is caused by the corona virus, which all cats in a rescue situation (mine were from animal control) and/or multi-cat household are more than likely going to have high titers for, but that doesn't mean they have FIP. A high corona virus titer for a lot of cats will mean nothing. FIP is a mutation of the corona virus- the body's inappropriate immune response to corona. There are theories and beliefs about the factors that contribute to the reason why in one cat with the high titer, they come down with FIP, but in another, they may never-- not even the dry form in old age; and yes, I have my theories and of course I think I know why I had 3 that didn't make it. So, essentially, there's not really an argument for segregating- even if you have a cat with a fat belly and it could be wet fip. I'm far from an expert, so you should join the FIP group to get all the information. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:27:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP I wrote earlier this week about Tessa's big belly. Before introducing her to my other kitties I wanted to be sure she did not have FIP. Our internal med vet offered to ultrasound her belly. She, too, was alarmed when she saw her. The ultrasound showed just fat cells, no liquid. Great way to diagnose...at least for the wet form! Laurie ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get 5 GB of storage with Windows Live Hotmail. http://windowslive.com/Explore/Hotmail?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_hotmail_acq_5gb_112 008 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP
They found fat cells. Doctor said she's just a tubby girl. No FIP. She said no problem introducing Tessa. She has lost 1.3 lbs since I rescue her. She was ten pounds and is very tiny. Her back legs would slide out from under her all the time. And she was a stray...this man was feeding her (very well!). L -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 8:59 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Well let me know what they find out. Swollen belly/any type fluid filling in the abdomen is so scary. But god, that it's fip revelation from the doctor is honestly the worst of the worst. But it only happened to me with the 3rd and final one- and by then, when the results came back, he had already crashed and I had already made my decision. The first, Brumley, had dry fip (even tho he was a young cat- under 1)- uveitits. And the second, Possum, the fluid filled up so fast- it happened so fast- he was at the critical phase at the point at which it had become evident to me, tho he had failed to thrive for a long time. So tough to diagnose early on. What I find so interesting, is that the 3 that I have lost to FIP were what I have termed gentle souls. I use this term very infrequently as it is hard to find in humans, or animals. But truly, sweet, gentle, wouldn't harm a fly souls-- and cats at that! Which I can't even say that about my most beloved, my Monkee whom I lost to FELV-- b/c he was a killer!!!- a wolf in sheep's clothes! But these FIP boys, truly the sweetest things. Almost too sweet and too gentle to classify as cats! And it's just odd to me that the sweetest, gentlest fosters that I had, I lost to this very disease. Which is obviously what gets to me the most. And here my survivor of that rescue batch-- my Yoda, is the devil child incarnate! He hates my mom- for no reason at all- he's horrible towards her!!! And she held him in the palm of her hand and helped me nurse his sick little butt back to health and he's just an ungrateful, demon! He's just an evil lil thing! Not a gentle soul. And I'm sure I will be blessed to have his evil little self with me for the next 20 years!!! It is just odd that for me, FIP has taken the sweetest ones I have known. Good luck to you and keep us updated. ck From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 19:40:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Thanks. Yes, I do belong. And thank-you for sharing your personal experience, too. A friend had one cat die from FIP at about 2 years of age and his litter mate lived to 18. My other cats are all 8 or older. Tessa is age unknown but at least a year old. L -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Caroline Kaufmann Sent: Friday, November 07, 2008 4:38 PM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP Have you joined the FIP yahoo group? If not, do so. They are great. [EMAIL PROTECTED] FIP is not really contagious in the sense that Felv is. I have had 3 fosters die of it and all the other fosters that were exposed to them are fine. And it's not because they were foster-mates or exposed to each other. It doesn't work like that. FIP is caused by the corona virus, which all cats in a rescue situation (mine were from animal control) and/or multi-cat household are more than likely going to have high titers for, but that doesn't mean they have FIP. A high corona virus titer for a lot of cats will mean nothing. FIP is a mutation of the corona virus- the body's inappropriate immune response to corona. There are theories and beliefs about the factors that contribute to the reason why in one cat with the high titer, they come down with FIP, but in another, they may never-- not even the dry form in old age; and yes, I have my theories and of course I think I know why I had 3 that didn't make it. So, essentially, there's not really an argument for segregating- even if you have a cat with a fat belly and it could be wet fip. I'm far from an expert, so you should join the FIP group to get all the information. From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2008 16:27:48 -0600 Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] diagnosing FIP I wrote earlier this week about Tessa's big belly. Before introducing her to my other kitties I wanted to be sure she did not have FIP. Our internal med vet offered to ultrasound her belly. She, too, was alarmed when she saw her. The ultrasound showed just fat cells, no liquid. Great way to diagnose...at least for the wet form! Laurie ___ ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org _ Get 5 GB of storage
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
I will! Thank you! Alice hanson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey, there is a new injectable antibiotic out called Convenia. The vet gives one injection and it lasts for 14 DAYS!! My little Miss Clara got it the last time, and she back to her old self and antics the very next day. She's hard to give meds to too. You should see if your vet can try that.Alice Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:25:28 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip? Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( Gloria Lane wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Thanks, but Sneaker won't even come in to eat when I offer treats until I leave the area. There's no way I could make sure he got the treat with the pill in it. I can't get him to come to any type of food with any regularity. I put lysine into all the cats' wet food just trying to get some into him. I never know if he eats any of it or not, because I also keep dry food in the basement for them, and he won't come eat in front of me. :( tonya Sharyl [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My secret pilling method is meat baby food (no onions or garlic). I crush pills, dissolve the a cc of water and mix in a little baby food. With liquids I just mix it in a little baby food. Then I offer the baby food on a spoon or syringe feed it. Most kitties love gently warmed meat baby food and think they are getting a treat. HTH Sharyl --- On Tue, 11/4/08, catatonya wrote: From: catatonya Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 12:25 AM Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
My secret pilling method is meat baby food (no onions or garlic). I crush pills, dissolve the a cc of water and mix in a little baby food. With liquids I just mix it in a little baby food. Then I offer the baby food on a spoon or syringe feed it. Most kitties love gently warmed meat baby food and think they are getting a treat. HTH Sharyl --- On Tue, 11/4/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip? To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Date: Tuesday, November 4, 2008, 12:25 AM Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hey, there is a new injectable antibiotic out called Convenia. The vet gives one injection and it lasts for 14 DAYS!! My little Miss Clara got it the last time, and she back to her old self and antics the very next day. She's hard to give meds to too. You should see if your vet can try that.Alice Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 21:25:28 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip? Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q
Hi, me again, I just re-read some info on FIP at this site, and they are saying FCoV transmission is primarily through shared litterboxes, so even less chance for worry... http://marvistavet.com/html/body_fip.html Beth ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this was many years ago like 1972 when my Bud cat got sick. I was in college and my dad took hin to the vet who dx'd FIP. Now I know there were not tests done it was based on observation and he did not respond to antibiotics. Anyway the weekend I was to come home he left and was never seen again he was 10. I do not know about the tummy part I do know he was losing weight. Sally On 11/2/08, catatonya wrote: Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/ felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soul mate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
A vet can usually tell if fluid in the stomach feels like the type of accumulation you find with FIP or not, if there is fluid, they will draw it to see if characterisitic of FIP (straw colored) but the fluid should still be tested. FIP is frequently misdiagnosed. And yes, many cats carry corona virus their whole lives without ever developing FIP which is caused by a mutation in the virus. Wet fip (where you have a fluid effusion in the belly or chest cavity) usually results in a very sick cat pretty quickly, so it's good if she's eating, feels well, energetic, etc. Would be good to have a vet check her belly to see what they think may be going on in case it's something else, too, of course. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:29 AM, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: gloria, i'd love to see the link between ANTIBIOTICS, herpes and lysine/arginine--since it's the latter the keeps the herpes from replicating. there was just some research about using lysine in shelter cats; it's on the winn feline foundation blog--if read incorrectly, makes it sound as if lysine doesn't do anything, but the study wasn't designed to test what lysine can do, but something it's never claimed to! in the last three months, maybe even two---www.winnfelinehealth.org. zithromax is a wonder drug. in persians who come into rescue with symptoms of uri, we don't even try other antibiotics, we head right for the zithro... and kelley, i thought that cats process FeCoV out of their systems in most cases after a few months if everyone in the house isn't just passing it back in forth, or if new kitties aren't coming in--which is why cats in smaller households are less likely to show high titres? my understanding--could be wrong--is that the high percentage of cats (and humans) who test positive on CoV titres is at any one time--so the same sample won't necessarily do so the next time. grade-school teachers, for example, are going to be much more likely to have higher titres more of the year than say, oh, 57-year-olds, who stay home with their cats 6 days out of 7.. as for the age thing with FIP, the one thing i know for sure is that there is mounting evidence (i'm not sure if they're declared it conclusive yet), of a genetic predisposition for common strains of FeCoV to mutate into FIP, so a predisposed cat whose immune system was able to prevent that earlier might not be so able as its immune system failed with age. i just question how many cases of unknown illnesses now diagnosed as FIP actually are. seems it's the answer of choice when vets don't know what's going on, or don't want to be bothered finding out, so somewhat more difficult to find patterns. MC On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:35 AM, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
GOOD vets can tell if the fluid feels like FIP, and GOOD vets will draw fluid. i no longer presume that a vet is good without reason to. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
good point, esp. w/regards to FIP, even some good vets don't know what they are talking about. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 10:04 AM, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: GOOD vets can tell if the fluid feels like FIP, and GOOD vets will draw fluid. i no longer presume that a vet is good without reason to. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q
Might also want to check out http://www.dr-addie.com/PreventionS1.htm scroll to the bottom of the page for a list of cat litters that kill the FCoV. Lots of other great info on FIP on Dr. Addie's site. Gary - Original Message - From: Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 2:00 AM Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q Hi, me again, I just re-read some info on FIP at this site, and they are saying FCoV transmission is primarily through shared litterboxes, so even less chance for worry... http://marvistavet.com/html/body_fip.html Beth ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org __ Information from ESET NOD32 Antivirus, version of virus signature database 3576 (20081102) __ The message was checked by ESET NOD32 Antivirus. http://www.eset.com ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
About a year ago, stray calico kitty that we fostered, and found a great home for had such a bloated belly when we saw her, we thought she was pregnant! I thought she was 99.999% pregnant, that is how large her stomach was. We took her to a local vet, and they offered to do an ultrasound and palpitation. It turned out it the vet said some cats get that way after starving and not being able to eat regularly. She had presumably been dumped by someone in the area, and was very domesticated and sweet. She was checked for worms-- clear, FeLV and FIV- clear, and is the picture of health, being spoiled by her human up in Northern Cali.:) -Original Message- From: Heather [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Mon, 3 Nov 2008 6:58 am Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip? A vet can usually tell if fluid in the stomach feels like the type of accumulation you find with FIP or not, if there is fluid, they will draw it to see if characterisitic of FIP (straw colored) but the fluid should still be tested. FIP is frequently misdiagnosed. And yes, many cats carry corona virus their whole lives without ever developing FIP which is caused by a mutation in the virus. Wet fip (where you have a fluid effusion in the belly or chest cavity) usually results in a very sick cat pretty quickly, so it's good if she's eating, feels well, energetic, etc. Would be good to have a vet check her belly to see what they think may be going on in case it's something else, too, of course. On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 8:29 AM, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: gloria, i'd love to see the link between ANTIBIOTICS, herpes and lysine/arginine--since it's the latter the keeps the herpes from replicating. there was just some research about using lysine in shelter cats; it's on the winn feline foundation blog--if read incorrectly, makes it sound as if lysine doesn't do anything, but the study wasn't designed to test what lysine can do, but something it's never claimed to! in the last three months, maybe even two---www.winnfelinehealth.org. zithromax is a wonder drug. in persians who come into rescue with symptoms of uri, we don't even try other antibiotics, we head right for the zithro... and kelley, i thought that cats process FeCoV out of their systems in most cases after a few months if everyone in the house isn't just passing it back in forth, or if new kitties aren't coming in--which is why cats in smaller households are less likely to show high titres? my understanding--could be wrong--is that the high percentage of cats (and humans) who test positive on CoV titres is at any one time--so the same sample won't necessarily do so the next time. grade-school teachers, for example, are going to be much more likely to have higher titres more of the year than say, oh, 57-year-olds, who stay home with their cats 6 days out of 7.. as for the age thing with FIP, the one thing i know for sure is that there is mounting evidence (i'm not sure if they're declared it conclusive yet), of a genetic predisposition for common strains of FeCoV to mutate into FIP, so a predisposed cat whose immune system was able to prevent that earlier might not be so able as its immune system failed with age. i just question how many cases of unknown illnesses now diagnosed as FIP actually are. seems it's the answer of choice when vets don't know what's going on, or don't want to be bothered finding out, so somewhat more difficult to find patterns. MC On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 7:35 AM, Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org ) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
no, not paranoid. i at least call my vet when i notice something new and in this case, would probably take him in just to be sure. better to go in and catch something in early stages than wait. so people think you are nuts, that is their problem. dorlis catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q
Thanks for this to and all who responded. I am going to assume all is well. I rescued her 3 weeks ago and no change except the belly is a little smaller! Laurie -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Beth Noren Sent: Monday, November 03, 2008 1:44 AM To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q Hi Laurie, If there are no other symptoms (fever, pronounced spine) then I wouldn't worry. Wet FIP normally progresses pretty quickly, from my experience and what I've read. When I lost my Alice to it it was maybe 3 weeks or less from first noticing symptoms to having her so swollen and unresponsive to meds that we had to pts. As you may already know, FIP isn't directly contagious from cat to cat. Instead, the usually harmless but very contagious feline corona virus, which is present in a majority of shelter and cattery cats, happens to mutate into deadly FIP within a specific cat. So it IF Tessa has FIP, your others likely already have FCoV, even just with limited casual contact, but unlikely that it would mutate into FIP in another of your cats. Some strains of FCoV do seem to make deadly mutations easier than others, and genetics may make some cats more susceptible than others. In my case, Alice's siblings are all still here at 2.5 years... Wouldn't worry too much, Beth ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
He's eating fine. The problem is he's 12 years old. Can cats 'harbor' fip like felv? tonya Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Tonya, I lost one 12 week old to suspected wet FIP 2 years ago. She had a chronic URI and began having fevers that stopped responding to antibiotics. When her belly very first started to swell I noticed it, but the vet couldn't see it (or perhaps didn't want me to worry too much prematurely?) It quickly became obvious, (swayed, stuck out to the sides, hung way down, felt a bit like a water balloon) and was accompanied by anorexia and a very pronounced spine. From the first signs of swelling to the end was maybe 3 weeks or less? Hope sneakers is ok, if he's still eating good and no fevers then that's a good sign. Beth On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
That's why I'm thinking it's not fip. This has been going on over a year (the breathing difficulty). The weight gain only for a few months. I would think he would have to show some other symptoms and be sicker than the breathing problem if it's fip, but he does have a fat belly. thank you! t Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Well, it isn't a matter of harboring FIP. FIP is a mutation of coronavirus, which many/most cats, especially those who have been through kill shelters, have been exposed to at one time or another. Most cats can carry coronavirus throughout their lives with no ill effects. There is no way to tell in which cats the virus will mutate. Cats who live in single cat households generally clear the virus over time, with multiple cat households. Wet food does not typically cause weight gain, if anything it would cause weight loss. There is a test which MC will probably remember the name of that can rule out FIP. Most vets do not know about it. If the cat does indeed have wet FIP, the prognosis is very poor and the time frame is short, but I do think a lot of vets use FIP as a diagnosis when they don't really know what is wrong. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
great site. I'm going to assume if he's not got sicker over the past few months it must just be weight gain. He is eating more because he likes the wet food better. thanks, t Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here's a link with a good explanation: http://marvistavet.com/html/body_fip.html Beth :o) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
His belly feels 'tight' to the touch. Can a cat keep an ongoing herpes infection that never worsens or improves much? Heather [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A vet can usually tell if fluid in the stomach feels like the type of accumulation you find with FIP or not, if there is fluid, they will draw it to see if characterisitic of FIP (straw colored) but the fluid should still be tested. FIP is frequently misdiagnosed. And yes, many cats carry corona virus their whole lives without ever developing FIP which is caused by a mutation in the virus. Wet fip (where you have a fluid effusion in the belly or chest cavity) usually results in a very sick cat pretty quickly, so it's good if she's eating, feels well, energetic, etc. Would be good to have a vet check her belly to see what they think may be going on in case it's something else, too, of course. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
i don't know if they have something like this for the antibiotics he is getting, but my vet gave Annie an injection that lasts for 2 weeks. she also is difficult to pill, give liquids and is super good at hiding. she can get lost in our house very easy. my Snuggles also hated pills, liquids, any kind of meds. he used every weapon in his arsenal and had no problems with biting, scratching me to avoid them. once, he got a grass seed lodged in his lung, almost died and had to be put on oxygen for couple of days the vet gave him shots those days, but sent him home with horse size pills to be given every day. after 1 day, ended up going to vet every day for shots. that way, i did ot have to get a transfusion every day. dorlis catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Gloria, We've tried it. The problem is he's very difficult to pill. When I start him on antibiotics he runs and hides and I can't catch him for days... He has escaped at the vet's office twice (at two different vets) because he literally climbs the walls to escape! We have tried zithromax and zenoquin and one other. but he never got them every single day for the entire time period. :( Gloria Lane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey Tonya, I might try some Azithromycin. It's become my latest discovery to try for the unknown. I've used it mostly in cats/kittens with problem eyes. I've read that some abx are said to affect Herpes, because of the relationship between the two amino acids lysine and arginine. The zithro is more expensive, so that might be a deterrent. IT's liquid, as are amoxi and clinidamycin, so you have to be able to squirt it in the mouth. Good luck, Gloria On Nov 2, 2008, at 7:49 PM, catatonya wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
sounds like he is Snuggles reincarnated. good luck with him. will pray for you both, YOU will need it. dorlis catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It doesn't feel like it's fluid. It doesn't sound like there's any fluid when he listened to his chest the last time. (I was thinking asthma or chf at that time). I just don't want to take him to the vet anymore. I don't see him for weeks after a vet visit. :( t MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GOOD vets can tell if the fluid feels like FIP, and GOOD vets will draw fluid. i no longer presume that a vet is good without reason to. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
It doesn't feel like it's fluid. It doesn't sound like there's any fluid when he listened to his chest the last time. (I was thinking asthma or chf at that time). I just don't want to take him to the vet anymore. I don't see him for weeks after a vet visit. :( t MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: GOOD vets can tell if the fluid feels like FIP, and GOOD vets will draw fluid. i no longer presume that a vet is good without reason to. -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine Special-Needs Coordinator, Purebred Cat Breed Rescue (www.purebredcats.org) Member, SCAT (Special-Cat Action Team) ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
[Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Now this was many years ago like 1972 when my Bud cat got sick. I was in college and my dad took hin to the vet who dx'd FIP. Now I know there were not tests done it was based on observation and he did not respond to antibiotics. Anyway the weekend I was to come home he left and was never seen again he was 10. I do not know about the tummy part I do know he was losing weight. Sally On 11/2/08, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soul mate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q
Hi. Another FIP question. My foster cat Tessa has a large belly. She was spayed and vet said she was full of fat cells. She kind of sways when she walks. Another vet examined her and said her belly was firm and not spongy like an FIP belly would be. Any thoughts? She has mostly been isolated but is occasionally in areas in common with my cats but no direct cat to cat contact and no sharing of food or water bowls. She has urinated in their boxes a couple times. Would anyone here be concerned? Thanks Laurie et al -Original Message- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Now this was many years ago like 1972 when my Bud cat got sick. I was in college and my dad took hin to the vet who dx'd FIP. Now I know there were not tests done it was based on observation and he did not respond to antibiotics. Anyway the weekend I was to come home he left and was never seen again he was 10. I do not know about the tummy part I do know he was losing weight. Sally On 11/2/08, catatonya wrote: Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Sally, Eric (not a cat),Junior(angel), Tiny(angel) Fluffy(soul mate angel), Speedy, Grey and White, Ittle Bitty, Little Black, Lily, Daisy, Pewter, Junior Junior (newest) I call him JJ , Silver, and Spike Please Visit my Message board for some pictures. You are welcome to sign up. http://www.k6az.com/ki4spk/index.php?sid=c57c00cf5804ef13853ed6e77a68eed3 ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Hi Tonya, I lost one 12 week old to suspected wet FIP 2 years ago. She had a chronic URI and began having fevers that stopped responding to antibiotics. When her belly very first started to swell I noticed it, but the vet couldn't see it (or perhaps didn't want me to worry too much prematurely?) It quickly became obvious, (swayed, stuck out to the sides, hung way down, felt a bit like a water balloon) and was accompanied by anorexia and a very pronounced spine. From the first signs of swelling to the end was maybe 3 weeks or less? Hope sneakers is ok, if he's still eating good and no fevers then that's a good sign. Beth On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 8:49 PM, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: thanks. maybe he's just gaining weight from the canned food. he's been exposed to no new cats and has been breathing funny for at least a year now... we've done antibiotics twice. i just don't know... t ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Well, it isn't a matter of harboring FIP. FIP is a mutation of coronavirus, which many/most cats, especially those who have been through kill shelters, have been exposed to at one time or another. Most cats can carry coronavirus throughout their lives with no ill effects. There is no way to tell in which cats the virus will mutate. Cats who live in single cat households generally clear the virus over time, with multiple cat households. Wet food does not typically cause weight gain, if anything it would cause weight loss. There is a test which MC will probably remember the name of that can rule out FIP. Most vets do not know about it. If the cat does indeed have wet FIP, the prognosis is very poor and the time frame is short, but I do think a lot of vets use FIP as a diagnosis when they don't really know what is wrong. On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 5:02 PM, catatonya [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi all, I know many of you have had experience with fip. My cat sneaker has chronic herpes (vet thinks that's what it is.) he has difficulty breathing, but his lungs are clear. We've medicated him to no avail. And he is semiferal and hard to pill, much less use a nebulizer or anything. Anyway, I've noticed he seems to have gained weight in his belly. Would a cat that is over 10 years old harbor fip all that time? Wouldn't he act sicker if that's what it was? I've got a crf cat so I've been feeding more wet food. So I guess it could just be weight gain.. but it's a FAT tummy. Am I being paranoid. When he breathes through his nose it sounds like he has a cold. There is no sneezing and he has no eye discharge or anything. thanks in advance for any ideas. tonya ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 Check out our Memsaic! http://www.memsaic.com/app/launch.cfm?sid=08D2CAB2A6E9 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help with the Friday Night Lights' kittens medical needs! http://rescuties.chipin.com/the-friday-night-lights-kittens Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say take them first as long as you leave me alone. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-another fip Q
Hi Laurie, If there are no other symptoms (fever, pronounced spine) then I wouldn't worry. Wet FIP normally progresses pretty quickly, from my experience and what I've read. When I lost my Alice to it it was maybe 3 weeks or less from first noticing symptoms to having her so swollen and unresponsive to meds that we had to pts. As you may already know, FIP isn't directly contagious from cat to cat. Instead, the usually harmless but very contagious feline corona virus, which is present in a majority of shelter and cattery cats, happens to mutate into deadly FIP within a specific cat. So it IF Tessa has FIP, your others likely already have FCoV, even just with limited casual contact, but unlikely that it would mutate into FIP in another of your cats. Some strains of FCoV do seem to make deadly mutations easier than others, and genetics may make some cats more susceptible than others. In my case, Alice's siblings are all still here at 2.5 years... Wouldn't worry too much, Beth On Sun, Nov 2, 2008 at 7:27 PM, Laurieskatz [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi. Another FIP question. My foster cat Tessa has a large belly. She was spayed and vet said she was full of fat cells. She kind of sways when she walks. Another vet examined her and said her belly was firm and not spongy like an FIP belly would be. Any thoughts? She has mostly been isolated but is occasionally in areas in common with my cats but no direct cat to cat contact and no sharing of food or water bowls. She has urinated in their boxes a couple times. Would anyone here be concerned? Thanks Laurie et al -Original Message- ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
I think it's called Rivalta's test? Beth On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:38 AM, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: There is a test which MC will probably remember the name of that can rule out FIP. Most vets do not know about it. If the cat does indeed have wet FIP, the prognosis is very poor and the time frame is short, but I do think a lot of vets use FIP as a diagnosis when they don't really know what is wrong. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
That's it - thanks! On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's called Rivalta's test? Beth -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 Check out our Memsaic! http://www.memsaic.com/app/launch.cfm?sid=08D2CAB2A6E9 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help with the Friday Night Lights' kittens medical needs! http://rescuties.chipin.com/the-friday-night-lights-kittens Rather than helping, it's easier to point fingers and say take them first as long as you leave me alone. ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
Re: [Felvtalk] ot-sneaker fip?
Here's a link with a good explanation: http://marvistavet.com/html/body_fip.html Beth :o) On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 2:49 AM, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's it - thanks! On Mon, Nov 3, 2008 at 1:47 AM, Beth Noren [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I think it's called Rivalta's test? Beth ___ Felvtalk mailing list Felvtalk@felineleukemia.org http://felineleukemia.org/mailman/listinfo/felvtalk_felineleukemia.org
FIP; and recent spay question
I wanted to resend this with a new subject line, since I am now able to access the Archives and I'm scanning for info on FIP. None of what I'm finding is making me feel better- only worse. caroline From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: ArchivesDate: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:21 -0500 I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried?I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to fight to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy. Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call and ask anyone! Caroline Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now! _ The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/
Re: FIP; and recent spay question
I answered you, but feel free to call if you want. Please, please do not panic. I will see if I can find some info on FIP for you outside of the archives. On Dec 25, 2007 2:17 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to resend this with a new subject line, since I am now able to access the Archives and I'm scanning for info on FIP. None of what I'm finding is making me feel better- only worse. caroline -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Archives Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:21 -0500 I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to *fight* to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy. Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call and ask anyone! Caroline -- Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 -- The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/redirect-home?tag=rescuties-20 http://www.zazzle.com/rescuties* Please help Clarissa! http://rescuties.chipin.com/clarissasheart
Re: FIP; and recent spay question
i don't have the link in front of me--go to petsmart charities, and look up their recorded seminars. there was one i attended a couple of months ago on the most recent info re: FIP. it should be up on the site by now. MC On Dec 25, 2007 3:17 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I wanted to resend this with a new subject line, since I am now able to access the Archives and I'm scanning for info on FIP. None of what I'm finding is making me feel better- only worse. caroline -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Subject: Archives Date: Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:02:21 -0500 I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to *fight* to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy. Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call and ask anyone! Caroline -- Get the power of Windows + Web with the new Windows Live. Get it now!http://www.windowslive.com/?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_powerofwindows_122007 -- The best games are on Xbox 360. Click here for a special offer on an Xbox 360 Console. Get it now! http://www.xbox.com/en-US/hardware/wheretobuy/ -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP and otyher uglies
Don't worry about FIV. It's very hard to transmit except through deep
penetrating bite wounds. (I have an FIV+ cat of my own, have had others, and I
moderate an FIV group. Email off-list if you want more detail on this.)
FIP -- first off all, no way can it be diagnosed visually. It's hard to
diagnose the dry form except by necropsy. And, while a lot of cats may test
positive for the corona virus at some point over a lifetime (and please make
this distinction -- FIP and corona are two very different things), very few
actually develop FIP. It requires a genetic predisposition, plus exposure to
corona, plus some triggering event or stress. (There is an FIP group too,
btw.) More info on FIP at http://www.orionfoundation.com/ and www.dr-addie.com
These are the two best sites with most current, informed info. Also, once a
cat alctually develops FIP (and distinguished from the corona virus), FIP is
trapped in the macrophage and does not shed.
If you wanna talk, email me your phone number. I'm not doing anything much
today other than unpacking boxes and puttering around the house. (And
adoptions! FOUR adoptions in 4 days, with the last just 1/2 an hour ago. A
family drove more than an hour to come get a little calico I had listed for
adoption.)
Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
.hmmessage P { margin:0px; padding:0px } body.hmmessage {
FONT-SIZE: 10pt; FONT-FAMILY:Tahoma }I can't access the Archives. I keep
trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service,
obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried?
I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I
took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing
anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to fight
to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so
frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank
god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made
it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing
clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies
and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning
up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was
Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to
work and I just cracked I guess.
The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the
blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in
that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before
and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my
own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled
with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even
took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on
my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what
has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and
scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to
deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the
caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take
them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more
arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to
get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel
better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of
dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to
rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm
trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to
give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids
yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took
his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not
happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my
heart.
So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been
discussed before.
Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't
worry about that), I have one now who's little spay site seems a tad oozy.
Nothing scary scary like blood or a lot of fluid, but it just doesn't look
totally right. Not that I know what totally right looks like tho because I've
never had a kitten this young spayed and I wasn't really given any follow-up
care instructions- just been using my own common sense. But of course, I am
worried. And of course, it's Christmas and that makes it very hard to call
Re: uveitis and FIP
uveitis most certainly can be a symptom of dry FIP. But it can also be a symptom of so many other things. Dry FIP is especially hard to diagnose because the possible array of symptoms are so generic. Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:Yes I agree and I would think more likely FELV than FIP. Hopefully it is none of these. Junior handles his bad eyesight very well. He hisses a lot at the other cats though. Sally On Dec 25, 2007 6:48 PM, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, one of my seized fosters had uveitis as well. It is very hard to treat. I don't think it has a connection with FIP though, and cats can do very well partially blind or even completely blind in one eye. On Dec 25, 2007 5:42 PM, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your description of the eyes sounds like uveitis, Junior had this after his initial symptoms from the FELV onset. Junior had this after he was dx with FELV. It is hard to treat and took a over a month to clear up. He was already blind in one eye but left the good eye partially blind as well. You can google for pictures but sounds like what you describe and terramycin will not clear it up. I have not dealt with FIP except I lost a cat many years ago which the vet said was FIP. This was way before testing. He went on symptoms alone. I was away at college and the cat went off to die. I will be crossing my fingers that the kitty is negative fro all these infectious diseases. I too would take FIV over FELV any day. Bless you for caring. Today is the anniversery of Tinys death. Bansy also died on this day. He too had uveitis and if Kerry is still on the gorup maybe she can give you more information as to treatment. Tiny and Bandy went to the rainbows bridge togetther. Sally On Dec 25, 2007 3:02 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to fight to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still somewhat sedated from when they took his blood, so I am sure my attempt today will not go half as smooth. He's not happy about being in a crate in a room by himself either and it breaks my heart. So I wanted to look through the archives because I know FIP and FIV have been discussed before. Also, of my 3 barn kittens (totally separated from the other fosters- so don't worry about that), I have
Re: uveitis and FIP
Fortunately I have only had one cat w/dry FIP, and she didn't have uveitis. On Dec 25, 2007 9:25 PM, Susan Hoffman [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: uveitis most certainly can be a symptom of dry FIP. But it can also be a symptom of so many other things. Dry FIP is especially hard to diagnose because the possible array of symptoms are so generic. *Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED]* wrote: Yes I agree and I would think more likely FELV than FIP. Hopefully it is none of these. Junior handles his bad eyesight very well. He hisses a lot at the other cats though. Sally On Dec 25, 2007 6:48 PM, Kelley Saveika [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, one of my seized fosters had uveitis as well. It is very hard to treat. I don't think it has a connection with FIP though, and cats can do very well partially blind or even completely blind in one eye. On Dec 25, 2007 5:42 PM, Sally Davis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your description of the eyes sounds like uveitis, Junior had this after his initial symptoms from the FELV onset. Junior had this after he was dx with FELV. It is hard to treat and took a over a month to clear up. He was already blind in one eye but left the good eye partially blind as well. You can google for pictures but sounds like what you describe and terramycin will not clear it up. I have not dealt with FIP except I lost a cat many years ago which the vet said was FIP. This was way before testing. He went on symptoms alone. I was away at college and the cat went off to die. I will be crossing my fingers that the kitty is negative fro all these infectious diseases. I too would take FIV over FELV any day. Bless you for caring. Today is the anniversery of Tinys death. Bansy also died on this day. He too had uveitis and if Kerry is still on the gorup maybe she can give you more information as to treatment. Tiny and Bandy went to the rainbows bridge togetther. Sally On Dec 25, 2007 3:02 PM, Caroline Kaufmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I can't access the Archives. I keep trying and I keep getting an error message. It's not my internet service, obviously, or I wouldn't be able to send this email. Anyone else tried? I'd really like to get to the Archives because I took a cat into my home that I took from the store on Sat. because he looked horrible and no one else is doing anything about it (of course). Took him to the doctor yesterday (had to *fight* to get approval to even do that and the cat is obviously sickly looking- I'm so frustrated), and the vet is very concerned about infectious disease. Thank god- but I think he was shocked that the cat hasn't been treated yet, so I made it very very clear that I just got my hands on this cat and have been playing clean-up duty since the end of Aug. on these orphaned Metro AC June babies and that the group I VOLUNTEER FOR has made my self-appointed task of cleaning up their neglected messes, very very difficult. I didn't mince words. It was Christmas Eve and I spent 2 hours and 15 mins at the vets and NOT being able to work and I just cracked I guess. The vet is suspecting- based only on the physical exam b/c we won't get the blood tests (full panel) back on Wed. (hopefully)-- FIP, FIV, and/or Felv in that order. I am not so worried about Felv b/c I have dealt with that before and I just don't think it's transmitted that easily in non-fighting cats (my own opinion). But I have never dealt with FIP and FIV and this cat was mingled with my other fosters by the adoption agency I volunteer for before I ever even took in any cats. So basically I am freaking out that I may have FIP cats on my hands and not have known it b/c of course I am now wondering if that is what has been wrong with my weak little Possum cat all this time. I'm mad and scared and feel like I was asked to take in cats yet not given the resources to deal with them fully and protect them from each other; not to mention the caring for them with 2 hands tied behind my back b/c to get approval to take them to a vet (for the agency to pay for it) takes more arguing and hoop jumping-- the cat has to be practically dying to be able to get approval without being told things like well, if it would make YOU feel better...but I think you are overreacting. And I spent literally hundreds of dollars premium food and litter that I just don't have any money left over to rush cats out to vets and pay for it myself. I'm just sick over this. I'm trying to care for this little guy until we get the results back. I have to give him fluids- which I have never done and he's a fighter. He got fluids yesterday at the clinic, but he was still
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Thank you for the information Belinda. I am going to read all of it. Gina MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true. To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. From another Vet Website, again written in 2002: http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death. This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm 3) Verify FIP through histopathology. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 Visit my Tigger Tales site! - Ready for the edge of your seat? Check out tonight's top picks on Yahoo! TV.
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge (MaryChristine)
My vet has vaccinated his cats against felv every year, and one of his has turned pos. I have heard that it's 70 / 30 crapshoot, but I could be wrong. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Malone To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:26 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge (MaryChristine) am really new to this whole situation. Adopted an abandoned tuxie and at 9 months he just got sick. 2 days later he was in massive shock and unable to survive much more. My vet put him down while I held him. He told me he tested positive for Felv. I then brought in my others a 3 year old and a 4 year old. My 4 year old female is negative. My 3 year old male is positive. I have had both since they were kittens and they have always received all vaccinations yearly. I brought a kitten in that was a mess and he spent a week at the vet just trying to save him. He did initially test negative for Felv. He had also received his shots. I don't know what to think, but I am living proof you can vaccinate your cats for years and they can contract this virus. My boy is doing well now. He seems perfectly healthy. I don't know much about this virus but I have learned that vaccinations do not always work. Elizabeth
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Well, you are correct, no vet knows everything. And I can tell you THIS while we are @ it, neither do rescue folks. And it is no small wonder why lots of vet clinics cringe when they see rescue people walk in the door w/ their animals. And as far as killing animals, bad rescue people are right up there w/ bad vets, as well as pseudo sanctuaries. And if I hear of one more person make excuses for these types of people, (they had good intentions, things just got out of handblahblah...blah...) my head will explode while it spins around on my neck and I projectile vomit everywhere. I should know, I have been involved in way too many interventions and animal cruelty cases to even count. And how about them backyard breeders? I have more than my fair share of genetic freaks @ my house due to THEM. Like my Lola, Ursula (both felv+) and Pugsley, (felv- but chronic health problems w/ skin, eyes you can hear him breathe across a room). This particuliar piece of work was trying to invent a new breed...Give me a friggin' break.We didn't call her the Frankenbreeder case for nothing my friend. And then there is my Princess Pearl, which is felv- but came from a confiscation of what USED to be a house of 240+ cats. Well, until the owner died and he wasn't discovered for 2 weeks. Over 120 cats died of starvation during a freak ice storm in SA waiting to be found. What did the survivors eat, you ask? Why, their owner, who had been experimenting on them for years, keeping meticulous notes.(too bad they didn't eat him while he was alive). With 120 cats left, we transferred 56 to the Austin area and I ended up keeping one tiny, malnourished kitty that had rickets so bad she could not use her back legs. All she would do was hide in a corner in my bathroom. And try to put her in a cat carrier and take her to the vet? Impossible She had been shoved into a box where she had been subjected to torture and chemical abuse. I read the notes, I know. Blind cats from experimentation, injected cats, you name it. A true Katzentration Kamp... So, my point is my friend, there are a lot more folks out there killing kitty than just bad vets. And they are all just as bad. And some of these same folks are taking in HUGE donations in the name of charity, and giving the rest of us a bad name. All the while they are tossing the cats outside to live in trees and eat twigs (several sancturaries come to mind), OR, giving them substandard care that is so bad, you would need a shovel to dig yourself into their homes due to the feces... And once again I should know about that too, because that is EXACTLY what I have had to do to rescue cats, FROM RESCUERS. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Sorry but no vet knows everything ... I personally know of this type of vet worship costing animals their life. Just stating a fact ... take it or leave it. PS. I didn't call any vet a criminal, I said and I quote: To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Oh, I failed to mention this little fact... While I was shoveling cat poop to rescue cats from rescuers, guess who was right there w/ me? MY VET'S WIFE, who is also a trained nurse ANd who performed ALL the vetting on ALL the cats I have mentioned from over the years? PRO BONO? MY VET Dr. Smith, as well as Kelly's vet Dr. Samon. And sometimes I even worked side by side w/ them while they did their thing. ( I also worked @ Dr. Smith's house for 2.5 yrs, everyday, taking care of his 60+ special needs cats. A REAL sanctuary environment). And I have worked w/ enough BAD VETS to know what GOOD VET is like Once again, when you work in a shelter you know ALL the local dirt.And when you know the drug reps you know what happens in the back of the clinic and who has a filthy clinic.. People sure do like to talk. :) And being a petsitter now for 3 yrs., I have dealt w/ some REAL losers masquerading as vets that were hired by my clients. So, yes, there is the good, and there is bad, you I are put on this earth to let everyone know the difference. However, we shall do it in our own way, but it's nice to be fair. Susan J. DuBose ^..^ www.PetGirlsPetsitting.com www.Tx.SiameseRescue.org www.shadowcats.net As Cleopatra lay in state, Faithful Bast at her side did wait, Purring welcomes of soft applause, Ever guarding with sharpened claws. Trajan Tennent - Original Message - From: Belinda To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Thursday, June 28, 2007 8:54 PM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge Sorry but no vet knows everything ... I personally know of this type of vet worship costing animals their life. Just stating a fact ... take it or leave it. PS. I didn't call any vet a criminal, I said and I quote: To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittens http://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Service http://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design] http://HostDesign4U.com BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites] http://bmk.bemikitties.com
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Hey MC, I, too, need to track down that 70% figure. And my understanding is that that is 70% of healthy, *unvaccinated* cats can throw off the virus. So with vaccinated cats it would be even better. Is that your understanding as well? Alley Cat Allies has some good documentation on how spaying and neutering more animals is a better answer to stopping the spread of FELV than is testing. They recommend *not* testing healthy, asymptomatic cats. http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdf Whenever our feral cat program gets started, that's the way we will operate. If only there were 48 hours in the day:) Kelley On 6/28/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the parent of www.veterinarypartner.com that belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP. personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and FeLV, but that's me.) as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is NOT accurate. (and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that 70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still looking.) On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: * Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make it true.* *To many cats pay with their lives when incorrect information is tossed about. To say a cat is suspected to have FIP is one thing, to say is is confirmed without the proper verification procedures being followed is in my opinion criminal.* -- * This is from the VeterinaryPartner.com website written and maintained by vets, it is from 2002 so even this is probably no the most accurate info: * http://www.veterinarypartner.com/Content.plx?P=AA=232 FIP effusion fluid is thick, tenacious, straw-colored to deep golden, and clear to slightly cloudy. *From another Vet Website, again written in 2002:* http://www.vetinfo.com/cencyclopedia/cefip.html When cats have the effusive form of FIP in which abdominal fluid accumulation occurs, the thick, straw colored fluid has characteristics that strongly suggest FIP. It is possible to run a more specialized lab test, a polymerase chain reaction test for FIP, on this fluid. This type of testing is more accurate than FIP antibody testing but still is not definitive. Blood tests to compare the various protein levels in the blood can be very suggestive of FIP infection, as well. High immunglobulin levels are very suggestive of FIP in the presence of clinical signs. *Despite all of this, there is no clear-cut way to make a sure diagnosis of FIP prior to death.* *This person does Dr Addie's website and probably has some of the most current and factual info on FIP: *http://www.orionfoundation.com/Information.htm *3) Verify FIP through histopathology*. Simply necropsy is not enough. Microscopic evaluation of tissue from biopsy or necropsy by a trained pathologist is considered the only diagnostic proof of FIP. Where available request immunoperoxidase examination of tissue to verify presence of Corona virus in suspect tissue. -- Belinda happiness is being owned by cats ... Be-Mi-Kitties http://bemikitties.com Post Adoptable FeLV/FIV/FIP Cats/Kittenshttp://adopt.bemikitties.com FeLV Candlelight Servicehttp://bemikitties.com/cls HostDesign4U.com [affordable hosting web design]http://HostDesign4U.com http://hostdesign4u.com/ BMK Designs [non-profit animals websites]http://bmk.bemikitties.com -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
I read in multiple literature that 2/3 of cats who were expsed to the virus
will thrwo off the Felk virus as well. One I saw is in the peteducation web
page in felk section about it does not tell where the back up study came from..
Also, one of the medical book I have for cats also say the same thing --
Here's what I copied from the website..from the peteducation.com
What happens to a cat after being exposed to FeLV?
If the cat becomes infected from the exposure, 2-4 weeks later, in the
acutejavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=acutecls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300) stage of infection, large numbers of the virus can be found in the
bloodstream (viremia). Cats in the acute phase usually do not show signs of
disease. If they do, the signs are usually mild fever, slight lethargy, and
swollen lymph
nodeshttp://www.peteducation.com/article.cfm?cls=1cat=1352articleid=318
(lymphadenopathy). When an adult cat is exposed to FeLV, four things can happen:
1.. Approximately 30% of adult cats will not be infected due to inadequate
exposure.
2.. 30-35% of adult cats have a transient infection; over the course of 6
months or so, the cats will eventually kill all of the virus.
3.. 5-10% of adult cats will develop
latentjavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=latentcls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300) infections; these cats will not be able to kill all the virus, but
will be able to hold it in check. This is called a latent infection. These cats
usually show no signs of infection and usually do not shed virus in their
saliva or other body secretions.
Queensjavascript:popupWin1('/dictionary_term.cfm?term=queencls=1', 50, 50,
350, 300), however, may still pass the virus in utero or through the milk.
4.. 30% of adult cats will become persistently infected; these cats will not
develop an adequate immune response and will remain permanently infected with
FeLV. These are the cats who will become ill and die of FeLV-related diseases,
usually within 2-3 years of infection. These cats will shed large amounts of
virus in their saliva.
Age is a very important factor in determining what will happen after a cat is
exposed to FeLV. Almost all FeLV-exposed kittens less than 8 weeks of age will
have persistent viremia and show signs of disease during the acute phase. As
kittens get older, there is the probability of becoming persistently infected
after exposure lessens, until it reaches approximately 30% in adulthood.
The prevalence of FeLV infection is highest in cats between 1 and 6 years of
age, with a mean age of 3 years. Males are 1-½ times more likely to be infected
than females. This may be due to the frequency in which intact males roam and
fight.
- Original Message -
From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org
Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 8:14 AM
Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
Hey MC,
I, too, need to track down that 70% figure. And my understanding is that
that is 70% of healthy, *unvaccinated* cats can throw off the virus. So with
vaccinated cats it would be even better.
Is that your understanding as well?
Alley Cat Allies has some good documentation on how spaying and neutering
more animals is a better answer to stopping the spread of FELV than is testing.
They recommend *not* testing healthy, asymptomatic cats.
http://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdfhttp://www.alleycat.org/pdf/test.pdf
Whenever our feral cat program gets started, that's the way we will operate.
If only there were 48 hours in the day:)
Kelley
On 6/28/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
the most important info, i believe, in the last few years, is the research
showing a genetic predisposition for the mutation from the usually benign
corona virus to the horrible FIP. when i was still involved with VIN (the
parent of www.veterinarypartner.comhttp://www.veterinarypartner.com/ that
belinda references), this relationship was just starting to come out, through
the Feline Genome Project results from UC Davis and other participants. the
winn feline foundation (whose link i don't happen to have right at hand but a
search will pull it up, has current position papers on FIV, FeLV and FIP.
personally, i disagree with their overly pessimistic stats on both FIV and
FeLV, but that's me.)
as belinda says, the information is out there and we have a responsibility
to make sure that what we don't add to the confusion by repeating stuff that is
NOT accurate.
(and yes, i STILL haven't found where, exactly, the oft-quoted figure that
70% of healthy adult cats can throw off the FeLV virus. but i'm still
looking.)
On 6/28/07, Belinda [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Here are some sites with info about FIP. Just because the same
misinformation keeps getting repeated isn't going to make
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com - powered by Yahoo!
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
by the way, did you know there is a now new type of felk vaccine, much safer than traditional ones -- I will get the name if you guys are not already aware of this. - Original Message - From: MaryChristinemailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:08 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892
Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge
yep, exactly! - Original Message - From: Kelley Saveikamailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] To: felvtalk@felineleukemia.orgmailto:felvtalk@felineleukemia.org Sent: Friday, June 29, 2007 10:11 AM Subject: Re: FIP Facts - WAS - Suzie crossed the bridge I counted up the percentages in Hideyo's list and they added up to 70%. K On 6/29/07, MaryChristine [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: right, this 2/3 figure seems to be what's being used most often. winn feline foundation has new position papers out on FIV/FeLV/FIP, and that's what on theirs. http://www.winnfelinehealth.org http://www.winnfelinehealth.org/ HOWEVER, i know that i saw that 70% figure in a number of places, and it annoys me that i can't find it now. re: vaccinated cats' immunity, as far as anyone i've heard of can tell, there are NO, zip, zilch, nada, eppes documented cases of a vaccinated TRUE NEGATIVE (ie, retested after the 120 days necessary) who has ever turned positive from living with a true, retested positive. we all know of cases where supposedly negative cats have turned up positive later, but in none of those cases was the negative result ever verified. i know that in two households, mine and at the sanctuary, with all cats supposedly negative, we've found out later that SOMEONE was actually positive, when cats got sick. also according to the winn feline foundation, the new FeLV vaccines are about 95% effective. (like gloria, i really don't like to think about where they are coming up with the statistics, and what they're doing to our cats to do so.) however, anyone with experience with FeLVs in large numbers has questioned the 85% efficacy rate of the vaccine for a long time, in light of the high percentage of UNVACCINATED cats who throw off the virus, and the fact that vaccinated cats living with positives stay negative. i've questioned whether or not that 85% if just among kittens, frail elders, and other compromised populations thanks for the links, hideyo! -- Spay Neuter Your Neighbors! Maybe That'll Make The Difference MaryChristine AIM / YAHOO: TenHouseCats MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED]mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 289856892 -- Rescuties - Saving the world, one cat at a time. http://www.rescuties.org http://www.rescuties.org/ Vist the Rescuties store and save a kitty life! http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20http://astore.amazon.com/rescuties-20 Please help Caroline! http://rescuties.chipin.com/carolinehttp://rescuties.chipin.com/caroline I GoodSearch for Rescuties. Raise money for your favorite charity or school just by searching the Internet with GoodSearch - www.goodsearch.com http://www.goodsearch.com/- powered by Yahoo!
