Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> From: chuck
>
> Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place?
  Because you put them in the public right of way. 
  If you want private ducts and poles, go negotiate your own easements and 
build on private land. 

> I paid to have them put in for my use.
  So you did. We, the public, still get to set the rules (by proxy) on how the 
poles are to be used on "our" land. 

> I realize it is somewhat the "law of 
> the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils 
> of the mine.  This is just a different kind of mine.
  The mines analogy isn't really suitable as cables on poles do not permanently 
consume non-renewable resources. 

> You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. 
  That only makes sense if I had to pay you until the old pole was paid off. 
After that you should pay me. 

> You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place.
  What's there to be grateful about? I just put in my own damn pole. 
  If there was an existing pole there I could use, you should be grateful for 
me paying it off for you. 

> Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my 
> poles.
  Let's see how you like that argument when I pass an ordinance to underground 
all utilities. 

  Just because you were the first one to put in a pole, does not mean you 
should be the only one allowed to benefit from the public right of way. 

> (Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, 
> electrical utility in today's episode.  Chuck McCown is not actually a pole 
> owner but he plays one on TV).
  Jared is playing the part of the outraged and righteous member of public. In 
real life Jared is just an ordinary citizen. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> You come along and instantly want access and want a third party (lowest 
> bidder no less) to decide whether or not you are going to overload my pole?
  Strawman argument. One touch make ready and third party installs do not 
preclude proper engineering. 
  Also I never said anything about allowing poles to be overloaded. 

> And then it fails in an ice storm and FERC is all over my ass?
  This is another deflection. FERC will be all over your ass even if it was you 
who built it or if it you who contracted it out. It's no different if it was a 
third party contractor. There is a chain of liability and he who is at fault 
pays. 
 
> The public does not own the poles.
  Correct. 

> They should be grateful that they are even allowed access.
  No. The pole owners should be grateful that they are even allowed in the 
public right of way. 
  Any infrastructure in the public right of way should be administered in such 
a way that it benefits the public. This includes non-discrimination and 
enabling competition. 

> Pioneer's preference.
  Pioneer's preference rules, which are no longer in force, is a great way of 
stifling competition and impeding progress. 
 
> Kinda like I built a toll road.  Now you want to add lanes to the road I 
> built?  
  I already covered this above, but to go with your analogy, no, you do not get 
to have monopoly on toll roads if you built on public land. 

> And I get no say as to the engineering?
  You, not so much. Laws, regulations and industry standards, yes. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Ken Hohhof]

In their defense, they may also do a full parametric test and calibration of 
the radio.  May also use new gaskets when reassembling.

From: Lewis Bergman 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:36 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

I didn't like the repair cycle time but I thought the money was reasonable. 
Mine was fried by lightning and they repaired it. I think they three in a new 
board.



On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 10:04 PM Paul McCall  wrote:

  We can take a look at it for sure.  Most P problems are fixable, if that is 
what really is wrong with it



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 4:16 PM


  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?




  You just made Chuck M’s day.



  From: Gino Villarini 

  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:10 PM

  To: Animal Farm 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



  in our experience UBNT AF line is above UBNT... similar to Cambium 



  On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched 
since they were installed. Some 5 years old.

On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
 wrote:

  I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any 
UBNT product

  On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini  
wrote:

with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. 
its har to pay those $900!



On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

  Paul might be willing to take a look at it.  



  From: Daniel White 

  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



  I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is 
worth it IMHO.



  You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
  To: Animal Farm 
  Subject: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



  Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?



  SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its 
a bit too much




   Virus-free. www.avast.com 
   









  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 
as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Lewis Bergman]

I didn't like the repair cycle time but I thought the money was reasonable.
Mine was fried by lightning and they repaired it. I think they three in a
new board.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 10:04 PM Paul McCall  wrote:

> We can take a look at it for sure.  Most P problems are fixable, if that
> is what really is wrong with it
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *ch...@wbmfg.com
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 4:16 PM
>
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
>
> You just made Chuck M’s day.
>
>
>
> *From:* Gino Villarini 
>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 1:10 PM
>
> *To:* Animal Farm 
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
>
> in our experience UBNT AF line is above UBNT... similar to Cambium
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
> I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched
> since they were installed. Some 5 years old.
>
> On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any
> UBNT product
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
> with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
> har to pay those $900!
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
> Paul might be willing to take a look at it.
>
>
>
> *From:* Daniel White 
>
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
>
> *To:* af@afmug.com
>
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
>
> I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth it
> IMHO.
>
>
>
> You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
>
> Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?
>
>
>
> SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a bit
> too much
>
>
>
>
> 
>
> Virus-free. www.avast.com
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> --
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Paul McCall]

We can take a look at it for sure.  Most P problems are fixable, if that is 
what really is wrong with it

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 4:16 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

You just made Chuck M’s day.

From: Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:10 PM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

in our experience UBNT AF line is above UBNT... similar to Cambium

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:

I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched 
since they were installed. Some 5 years old.

On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> wrote:
I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any UBNT 
product

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its har to 
pay those $900!

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM, > 
wrote:
Paul might be willing to take a look at it.

From: Daniel White
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth it IMHO.

You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.

Daniel White
Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
ConVergence Technologies
Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
dwh...@converge-tech.com

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf 
Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
To: Animal Farm >
Subject: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?

SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a bit too 
much

[https://ipmcdn.avast.com/images/icons/icon-envelope-tick-round-orange-animated-tick-v1.gif]

Virus-free. 
www.avast.com





--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] odd 320 issue, resolved by rain

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

It was in but floating. With what I suspect the port will blow soon, if I
bonded it, that 12g wire would be carrying too much

On Sep 16, 2016 6:35 PM, "Adam Moffett"  wrote:

> Was the surge suppressor already there when the problem started? Or did
> you add the surge suppressor in response to the problem?
>
> IMO, the SS with it's own ground could be a liability as there's the
> possibility of a difference in ground potential between that rod and the
> equipment at the other end of the cable.  If the SS was there from the
> beginning, I'd actually try taking it out or bypassing it.  If you do drive
> a rod for the SS, you're supposed to bond that rod to the house electric
> ground.
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
> To: "af@afmug.com" 
> Sent: 9/16/2016 4:20:40 PM
> Subject: [AFMUG] odd 320 issue, resolved by rain
>
>
> we have a customer we have battled to keep fuctioning. Theyre on 320 with
> an air router, DHCP
> the router occasionally quits working, we replaced routers twice, and the
> whole run of cable, ss, radio, power supply.
> we see the MAC on the site router bridge, we see the dhcp discover and
> offer in the BMU, but no ACK
>
> finally we get onsite this morning, but it started to rain about 930, at
> ten the router came up per the graphs
>
> got on site and logged into the router, eth0 was at 10 full, looking at
> the logs it had been flapping down/10full over and over
>
> cycling it brought it back up at 100 full, and no issues.
>
> With the issue resurfacing after replacing the entirety of the run Im
> suspecting an issue with the houses electric, bad primary ground in
> particular. when it rained, the dirt got more conductive
>
> Our interior run does cross over a copper water pipe, im wondering if they
> dont have something grounded to that pipe in the house and when the
> conductivity of the primary ground is poor, that pipe becomes energized as
> a shunt.
>
> we did add an isolated ground rod to the SS, im hoping what i will see
> next time the issue surfaces is a blown port on the router
>
> We told them we wont come back out until an electrician looks over the
> homes electrical, they asked what to tell the electrician. Is there proper
> terminology that would need to be relayed to the electrician? I figure they
> need to verify the overal system ground, the frequency, and ambient
> voltage, but I dont know, Im not an electrician
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>
>

[AFMUG] ePMP 3.0+ - temp config/safe mode?

[Josh Luthman]

Did they add this feature by chance?  I have a radio linked up and it's
only offering 10 half/full.  I'm afraid to set it to 100 full from auto and
not have access to it again.

Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Sean Heskett]

Oh good point, I thought Sierra was this week cuz all my macs started
hounding me to upgrade lol

On Friday, September 16, 2016, Cassidy B. Larson  wrote:

> macOS sierra is next tuesday (20th)..  Nice of Apple to give us two big
> download Tuesdays in row though :)
>
>
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Sean Heskett  > wrote:
>
> iOS 10 and Mac OSX Sierra came out on tuesday the 13th
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Sam Kirsch  > wrote:
>
>> Looks like this PS4 update was released on Sept 13th -- as was a 500MB
>> update for Windows 10 and some sort of El Capitan OS X Update.  We didn't
>> start seeing real issues with the Windows 10 Update until the last 48
>> hours, since then its been a shit show of complaints :(
>>
>>
>>
>> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network SupportPlexicomm - Internet Solutions |
>> www.plexicomm.net *
>> *Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax:
>> 1.866.852.4688 <1.866.852.4688>*
>> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> |
>> sam...@plexicomm.net *
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Original Message --
>> From: "Mathew Howard" > >
>> To: "af" >
>> Sent: 9/16/2016 2:57:55 PM
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update
>>
>>
>> I suspect the majority of them are already actually done... mine updated
>> a few days ago.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke > > wrote:
>>
>>> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
>>> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0
>>> =playstation+4+update
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] odd 320 issue, resolved by rain

[Adam Moffett]

Was the surge suppressor already there when the problem started? Or did 
you add the surge suppressor in response to the problem?


IMO, the SS with it's own ground could be a liability as there's the 
possibility of a difference in ground potential between that rod and the 
equipment at the other end of the cable.  If the SS was there from the 
beginning, I'd actually try taking it out or bypassing it.  If you do 
drive a rod for the SS, you're supposed to bond that rod to the house 
electric ground.




-- Original Message --
From: "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
To: "af@afmug.com" 
Sent: 9/16/2016 4:20:40 PM
Subject: [AFMUG] odd 320 issue, resolved by rain

we have a customer we have battled to keep fuctioning. Theyre on 320 
with an air router, DHCP
the router occasionally quits working, we replaced routers twice, and 
the whole run of cable, ss, radio, power supply.
we see the MAC on the site router bridge, we see the dhcp discover and 
offer in the BMU, but no ACK


finally we get onsite this morning, but it started to rain about 930, 
at ten the router came up per the graphs


got on site and logged into the router, eth0 was at 10 full, looking at 
the logs it had been flapping down/10full over and over


cycling it brought it back up at 100 full, and no issues.

With the issue resurfacing after replacing the entirety of the run Im 
suspecting an issue with the houses electric, bad primary ground in 
particular. when it rained, the dirt got more conductive


Our interior run does cross over a copper water pipe, im wondering if 
they dont have something grounded to that pipe in the house and when 
the conductivity of the primary ground is poor, that pipe becomes 
energized as a shunt.


we did add an isolated ground rod to the SS, im hoping what i will see 
next time the issue surfaces is a blown port on the router


We told them we wont come back out until an electrician looks over the 
homes electrical, they asked what to tell the electrician. Is there 
proper terminology that would need to be relayed to the electrician? I 
figure they need to verify the overal system ground, the frequency, and 
ambient voltage, but I dont know, Im not an electrician


--
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 
team as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] IPv6 Multicast STOHP!

[Cassidy B. Larson]

Broadcast isn’t the same as Multicast.
IPv6 uses multicast exclusively for identifying things that IPv4 uses 
Broadcasts for.
If you provide what Multicast addresses are the most talkative we can identify 
what it is.


> On Sep 16, 2016, at 5:11 PM, Sterling Jacobson  wrote:
> 
> I'm not getting what all this chatter is on IPv6 on a segment of network.
> 
> I know I only have about 10-20 IPv6 client routers actually grabbing an 
> address on any given segment of my network.
> 
> But this 5-10Mbps of broadcast traffic seems very excessive.
> 
> Any way to stop this?
> 
> My IPv6 stuff is all running on Mikrotik

[AFMUG] IPv6 Multicast STOHP!

[Sterling Jacobson]

I'm not getting what all this chatter is on IPv6 on a segment of network.

I know I only have about 10-20 IPv6 client routers actually grabbing an address 
on any given segment of my network.

But this 5-10Mbps of broadcast traffic seems very excessive.

Any way to stop this?

My IPv6 stuff is all running on Mikrotik

Re: [AFMUG] Free Canopy Gear - pay shipping + handling

[Craig Schmaderer]

Come get your Gino's fire sale on!!

Craig Schmaderer
Cell 402-380-1245
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:45 AM -0500, "Gino Villarini" 
> wrote:

Need to clean up our warehouse.

Got 100+ 5200 SMs, 10+ APs, 10+ LMG Sectors and omnis


Pay for shipping and a small handling fee for us to cover packaging and they 
all yours!

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Cassidy B. Larson]

macOS sierra is next tuesday (20th)..  Nice of Apple to give us two big 
download Tuesdays in row though :)


> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:49 PM, Sean Heskett  wrote:
> 
> iOS 10 and Mac OSX Sierra came out on tuesday the 13th
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Sam Kirsch  > wrote:
> Looks like this PS4 update was released on Sept 13th -- as was a 500MB update 
> for Windows 10 and some sort of El Capitan OS X Update.  We didn't start 
> seeing real issues with the Windows 10 Update until the last 48 hours, since 
> then its been a shit show of complaints :( 
>  
>  
> -- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
> Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net 
> Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109  | Fax: 1.866.852.4688 
> 
> Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713  | sam...@plexicomm.net 
> 
>  
>  
>  
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" >
> To: "af" >
> Sent: 9/16/2016 2:57:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update
>  
>> I suspect the majority of them are already actually done... mine updated a 
>> few days ago.
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke > > wrote:
>> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to 
>> automatically download a large whole operating system update... 
>> 
>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0=playstation+4+update
>>  
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Craig Schmaderer]

Don't worry Chuck.  I'll only tickle your poles when I bore right by them.

Craig Schmaderer
Cell 402-380-1245
Skywave Wireless, Inc.




On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 5:14 PM -0500, "ch...@wbmfg.com" 
> wrote:

I get bored sometimes...

From: CBB - Jay Fuller
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM


Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place?

I paid to have them put in for my use.  I realize it is somewhat the "law of 
the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of 
the mine.  This is just a different kind of mine.

You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It 
wasn't overloaded before you came along.  I don't even want you on it in the 
first place, but the law says I have to.  Your cable makes it non compliant 
with FERC.  Not my fault.  You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the 
installation.

You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place.
Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my 
poles.

(Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, 
electrical utility in today's episode.  Chuck McCown is not actually a pole 
owner but he plays one on TV).

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Chuck McCown"
>
> The FCC regulates pole contacts.
 It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too.

> How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?
 By dragging out make ready work for months on end.
 Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space.

> Why should the
> power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to
> attach your cable to it?
 I don't recall advocation for that.

 That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole 
attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the 
pole attachment fees?

 Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Sean Heskett]

iOS 10 and Mac OSX Sierra came out on tuesday the 13th

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 4:18 PM, Sam Kirsch  wrote:

> Looks like this PS4 update was released on Sept 13th -- as was a 500MB
> update for Windows 10 and some sort of El Capitan OS X Update.  We didn't
> start seeing real issues with the Windows 10 Update until the last 48
> hours, since then its been a shit show of complaints :(
>
>
>
> *-- Samuel Kirsch, Network SupportPlexicomm - Internet Solutions |
> www.plexicomm.net *
> *Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 <1.866.759.4678%20x109> | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
> <1.866.852.4688>*
> *Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 <1.866.759.9713> | sam...@plexicomm.net
> *
>
>
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Mathew Howard" 
> To: "af" 
> Sent: 9/16/2016 2:57:55 PM
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update
>
>
> I suspect the majority of them are already actually done... mine updated a
> few days ago.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
>> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
>>
>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0
>> =playstation+4+update
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Sam Kirsch]

Looks like this PS4 update was released on Sept 13th -- as was a 500MB 
update for Windows 10 and some sort of El Capitan OS X Update.  We 
didn't start seeing real issues with the Windows 10 Update until the 
last 48 hours, since then its been a shit show of complaints :(



-- Samuel Kirsch, Network Support
Plexicomm - Internet Solutions | www.plexicomm.net
Office: 1.866.759.4678 x109 | Fax: 1.866.852.4688
Emergency Support: 1.866.759.9713 | sam...@plexicomm.net



-- Original Message --
From: "Mathew Howard" 
To: "af" 
Sent: 9/16/2016 2:57:55 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

I suspect the majority of them are already actually done... mine 
updated a few days ago.


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke  
wrote:
In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going 
to automatically download a large whole operating system update...


https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0=playstation+4+update

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[chuck]

I get bored sometimes...

From: CBB - Jay Fuller 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 3:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM


Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place?

I paid to have them put in for my use.  I realize it is somewhat the "law of 
the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of 
the mine.  This is just a different kind of mine.

You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It 
wasn't overloaded before you came along.  I don't even want you on it in the 
first place, but the law says I have to.  Your cable makes it non compliant 
with FERC.  Not my fault.  You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the 
installation.

You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place.
Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my 
poles.

(Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, 
electrical utility in today's episode.  Chuck McCown is not actually a pole 
owner but he plays one on TV).

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Chuck McCown"
>
> The FCC regulates pole contacts.
 It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too.

> How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?
 By dragging out make ready work for months on end.
 Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space.

> Why should the
> power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to
> attach your cable to it?
 I don't recall advocation for that.

 That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole 
attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the 
pole attachment fees?

 Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] DC tower cable bundle

[Eric Kuhnke]

Depending on your distance and the watt load of each radio, 18AWG is
frequently sufficient, assuming you have DC power supplies putting out
52-53.5VDC on the ground end, the voltage at the top end will be well
within the range of all equipment...

One of the lowest cost options is:

Belden 5309UE-1000 18 gauge, 12 conductor stranded riser DC power cable,
1000 ft
It's $1.95/meter ($595 for a 1000 ft spool). Not a cable you can put on a
tower directly but it goes great in liquid tight flex conduit with fiber
alongside it.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Craig Schmaderer 
wrote:

> Looking for advice on what my options are for running 16 DC conductors
> around 16 awg to power LTE and/or medusa radios on a tower.  Hybrid fiber
> option would be ok too.  I know I have seen Verizon on some of our towers
> use the hybrid cables.  Thanks, Craig.
>
>
>
> *Craig R. Schmaderer*
>
> *CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc.*
>
> *Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058*
>
> *Direct: 402-372-1052*
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[CBB - Jay Fuller]

I am so loving these conversations... so happy to be stirring the pot

Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

- Reply message -
From: ch...@wbmfg.com
To: 
Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
Date: Fri, Sep 16, 2016 3:26 PM

Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place?

I paid to have them put in for my use.  I realize it is somewhat the "law of 
the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils of 
the mine.  This is just a different kind of mine.

You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. It 
wasn't overloaded before you came along.  I don't even want you on it in the 
first place, but the law says I have to.  Your cable makes it non compliant 
with FERC.  Not my fault.  You wanna attach, give me a new pole and pay for the 
installation.

You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place.
Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my 
poles.

(Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, 
electrical utility in today's episode.  Chuck McCown is not actually a pole 
owner but he plays one on TV).

-Original Message- From: fiber...@mail.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Chuck McCown"
>
> The FCC regulates pole contacts.
It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too.

> How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?
By dragging out make ready work for months on end.
Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space.

> Why should the
> power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to
> attach your cable to it?
I don't recall advocation for that.

That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole 
attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the 
pole attachment fees?

Jared

[AFMUG] DC tower cable bundle

[Craig Schmaderer]

Looking for advice on what my options are for running 16 DC conductors around 
16 awg to power LTE and/or medusa radios on a tower.  Hybrid fiber option would 
be ok too.  I know I have seen Verizon on some of our towers use the hybrid 
cables.  Thanks, Craig.

Craig R. Schmaderer
CEO | Skywave Wireless, Inc.
Ph: 402-372-1975 | Fax: 402-372-1058
Direct: 402-372-1052

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

[Jeff Broadwick - Lists]

That have an integrated 3.65 unit Timothy.  It's only uncapped at this point, 
but it exists.  C036045C014A.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com

> On Sep 16, 2016, at 4:37 PM, Timothy Steele  wrote:
> 
> I have gotten 5db better with the 450d also inner feed designed dishes seems 
> to work much better when under a tower also much more simple to mount on a 
> tower I hope they do the same with 2.4 and 365 soon
> 
> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 12:57 PM SmarterBroadband  
>> wrote:
>> +1
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
>> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
>> To: Animal Farm
>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> We love it! We have standardized on it 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> -looks way better that a SM+dish, more professional
>> 
>> -gain the same or 1-2db better
>> 
>> -easier to assemble / align 
>> 
>> -less windload 
>> 
>>  
>> 
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>> 
>> I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they 
>> don't like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.
>> 
>> Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the 
>> regular 450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either 
>> way.  What are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance 
>> difference in an apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to 
>> get too excited about 1 dB.
>> 
>> Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the connectorized 
>> 450i SM, which is pretty pricey.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

[Timothy Steele]

I have gotten 5db better with the 450d also inner feed designed dishes
seems to work much better when under a tower also much more simple to mount
on a tower I hope they do the same with 2.4 and 365 soon

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016, 12:57 PM SmarterBroadband 
wrote:

> +1
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d
>
>
>
> We love it! We have standardized on it
>
>
>
> -looks way better that a SM+dish, more professional
>
> -gain the same or 1-2db better
>
> -easier to assemble / align
>
> -less windload
>
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
> I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they
> don't like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.
>
> Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the
> regular 450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either
> way.  What are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance
> difference in an apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to
> get too excited about 1 dB.
>
> Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the
> connectorized 450i SM, which is pretty pricey.
>

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[chuck]

Why should you even get access to my ducts or my poles in the first place?

I paid to have them put in for my use.  I realize it is somewhat the "law of 
the commons" but even then, those who file for a mining claim get the spoils 
of the mine.  This is just a different kind of mine.


You still pay an attachment fee because you forced the upgrade of my pole. 
It wasn't overloaded before you came along.  I don't even want you on it in 
the first place, but the law says I have to.  Your cable makes it non 
compliant with FERC.  Not my fault.  You wanna attach, give me a new pole 
and pay for the installation.


You should be grateful there is a pole there you can use in the first place.
Why not break out your horizontal directional drill and stay the hell off my 
poles.


(Chuck McCown is playing the part of the pissed off, privately owned, 
electrical utility in today's episode.  Chuck McCown is not actually a pole 
owner but he plays one on TV).


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:49 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


From: "Chuck McCown"

The FCC regulates pole contacts.

 It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too.


How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?

 By dragging out make ready work for months on end.
 Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct 
space.



Why should the
power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to
attach your cable to it?

 I don't recall advocation for that.

 That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole 
attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the 
pole attachment fees?


 Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[chuck]

So, I own these poles.  FERC says I can only load them so much.  And there 
are already a bunch of other people renting space on them.


You come along and instantly want access and want a third party (lowest 
bidder no less) to decide whether or not you are going to overload my pole?


And then it fails in an ice storm and FERC is all over my ass?

The public does not own the poles.  They should be grateful that they are 
even allowed access.

Pioneer's preference.

Kinda like I built a toll road.  Now you want to add lanes to the road I 
built?  And I get no say as to the engineering?


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:57 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

How about we enact one touch make ready and allow third parties to bid on 
make ready work?


No more unreasonable delays and market based costs for make ready work.

Jared


Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 6:42 PM
From: "Chuck McCown" 
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed.
Not saying there are none.  There are plenty.
Just curious which one could be removed.

-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

He didn't say it was easy or cheap.  More like it can be done, if you fill
out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else.

I have to agree.  If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they
should be removed for everyone.  Not just Google because they're special.
(insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking
winners and losers, etc.)  I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber
unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels. 
Cry

me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored.


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Mike Hammett"
>
> You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want.
  Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your
friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to 
pay

an arm and a leg for the pleasure?

Jared

[AFMUG] odd 320 issue, resolved by rain

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

we have a customer we have battled to keep fuctioning. Theyre on 320 with
an air router, DHCP
the router occasionally quits working, we replaced routers twice, and the
whole run of cable, ss, radio, power supply.
we see the MAC on the site router bridge, we see the dhcp discover and
offer in the BMU, but no ACK

finally we get onsite this morning, but it started to rain about 930, at
ten the router came up per the graphs

got on site and logged into the router, eth0 was at 10 full, looking at the
logs it had been flapping down/10full over and over

cycling it brought it back up at 100 full, and no issues.

With the issue resurfacing after replacing the entirety of the run Im
suspecting an issue with the houses electric, bad primary ground in
particular. when it rained, the dirt got more conductive

Our interior run does cross over a copper water pipe, im wondering if they
dont have something grounded to that pipe in the house and when the
conductivity of the primary ground is poor, that pipe becomes energized as
a shunt.

we did add an isolated ground rod to the SS, im hoping what i will see next
time the issue surfaces is a blown port on the router

We told them we wont come back out until an electrician looks over the
homes electrical, they asked what to tell the electrician. Is there proper
terminology that would need to be relayed to the electrician? I figure they
need to verify the overal system ground, the frequency, and ambient
voltage, but I dont know, Im not an electrician

-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[chuck]

You just made Chuck M’s day.

From: Gino Villarini 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:10 PM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

in our experience UBNT AF line is above UBNT... similar to Cambium 

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

  I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched 
since they were installed. Some 5 years old.


  On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any UBNT 
product

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

  with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its 
har to pay those $900!

  On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

Paul might be willing to take a look at it.  

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth 
it IMHO.



You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?



SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a 
bit too much


 Virus-free. www.avast.com  






-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> From: "Carl Peterson" 
>
> Once the town starts making a profit, is it reasonable for them to take that 
> money and plow it into other things or 
> should they start cutting prices so as to cover expenses and not make a 
> profit? 
  It's very, very hard to give up a cash cow, government or not. 

> It would seem to me that it would make sense to fund a future 
> maintenance/upgrade fund, and then cut prices.  
  Rationally, what you should do depends on how easyly you can borrow new 
capital and at what interest rates. 
  In today's situation where money is cheap and interest rates are low, the 
rational thing would be to return profits to owners / cut prices assuming all 
things are equal. 

> My feeling is that it is appropriate for governments to run utilities, but 
> not for governments to run utilities as profit centers to fund other 
> operations. 
  Isn't the latter how most profitable government owned utilities are run? I've 
even heard it with pride how much money the utilities pay into the general 
fund. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

How about we enact one touch make ready and allow third parties to bid on make 
ready work?

No more unreasonable delays and market based costs for make ready work. 

Jared

> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 at 6:42 PM
> From: "Chuck McCown" 
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>
> Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed.
> Not saying there are none.  There are plenty.
> Just curious which one could be removed.
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: Ken Hohhof
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> 
> He didn't say it was easy or cheap.  More like it can be done, if you fill
> out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else.
> 
> I have to agree.  If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they
> should be removed for everyone.  Not just Google because they're special.
> (insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking
> winners and losers, etc.)  I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber
> unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels.  Cry
> me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored.
> 
> 
> -Original Message- 
> From: fiber...@mail.com
> Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM
> To: af@afmug.com
> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
> 
> > From: "Mike Hammett"
> >
> > You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want.
>   Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your
> friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay
> an arm and a leg for the pleasure?
> 
> Jared
> 
> 
> 

[AFMUG] ApexPlus went stupid

[George Skorup]

Had a storm this morning and now have an 11GHz ApexPlus that looks like 
this.




That's the 6A side. -79 RSSI and -36 MSE. Unpossible. The 6B end shows 
no lock, -90 RSSI and +3-5 MSE. That seems normal to me. So my 
assumption is that the 6A end is farked.


And I have had trouble with this pair over the last year or two. One day 
out of the clear blue, the B side lost 6dB Rx power. Trango logged into 
them and said everything looks fine, check the latches and alignment. We 
checked and nothing is physically wrong at either end. And now this.


So my question for the list is would you concur with my assumption. I 
happen to have a 6A radio that's supposed to go on a site next week.

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they 
> should be removed for everyone.
  On this we very much agree. 

> I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber 
> unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels.
  It's not. Uber and AirBNB both chose to ignore laws and regulations. Us mere 
mortals can't do that. 

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> From: "Chuck McCown" 
>
> The FCC regulates pole contacts.
  It sure would be nice if they would enforce timely access too.  

> How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?
  By dragging out make ready work for months on end. 
  Duct owners can also under certain circumstances deny access to duct space. 

> Why should the 
> power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to 
> attach your cable to it?
  I don't recall advocation for that. 

  That being said, if I paid for the new pole, why am I still paying pole 
attachment fees for that pole and why aren't the other users paying *me* the 
pole attachment fees?

  Jared 

[AFMUG] NetEnforcer AC 1400 for sale

[Yent, Timothy M]

I still have the following items for sale.

1  Allot NetEnforcer AC-1440   Make offer
1  Allot NetEnforcer Bypass  Make offer

Tim

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Gino Villarini]

in our experience UBNT AF line is above UBNT... similar to Cambium

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:30 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

> I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched
> since they were installed. Some 5 years old.
>
> On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any
>> UBNT product
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
>>> har to pay those $900!
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>>
 Paul might be willing to take a look at it.

 *From:* Daniel White 
 *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
 *To:* af@afmug.com
 *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?


 I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth
 it IMHO.



 You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.



 Daniel White

 Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

 ConVergence Technologies

 Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

 dwh...@converge-tech.com



 *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
 *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
 *To:* Animal Farm 
 *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



 Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?



 SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a
 bit too much


 
  Virus-free.
 www.avast.com
 

>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Mathew Howard]

Indeed... and even if you buy games on disc, there's usually a several gig
update that needs to be downloaded before you can play. Plus release day is
the same day for Xbox and Playstation a lot of the time...

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:00 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Sure they do.  It's called "release day".
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
> wrote:
>
>> Probably, but not everyone downloads a new game all at the same time...
>> I wonder to what extent Sony is staggering the automatic update retrieval
>> in intervals through the entire installed base of PS4 that are online with
>> 24x7 net access.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Josh Luthman <
>> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Probably smaller than a game, though.
>>>
>>>
>>> Josh Luthman
>>> Office: 937-552-2340
>>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>>> 1100 Wayne St
>>> Suite 1337
>>> Troy, OH 45373
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going
 to automatically download a large whole operating system update...

 https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0
 =playstation+4+update



>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Josh Luthman]

Sure they do.  It's called "release day".


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:57 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Probably, but not everyone downloads a new game all at the same time...  I
> wonder to what extent Sony is staggering the automatic update retrieval in
> intervals through the entire installed base of PS4 that are online with
> 24x7 net access.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:50 AM, Josh Luthman <
> j...@imaginenetworksllc.com> wrote:
>
>> Probably smaller than a game, though.
>>
>>
>> Josh Luthman
>> Office: 937-552-2340
>> Direct: 937-552-2343
>> 1100 Wayne St
>> Suite 1337
>> Troy, OH 45373
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
>>> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
>>>
>>> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0
>>> =playstation+4+update
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Historical 18 GHz system

[Eric Kuhnke]

The rest of the carcass of the long out of service system is Motorola...

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:58 AM, Colin Stanners  wrote:

> Nice, do you know who the manufacturer/model was?
>
> Jpeg attached.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Mathew Howard]

I suspect the majority of them are already actually done... mine updated a
few days ago.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
>
> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=
> 0=playstation+4+update
>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Cassidy B. Larson]

But... will it have IPv6?



> On Sep 16, 2016, at 12:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:
> 
> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to 
> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
> 
> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0=playstation+4+update
>  
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Josh Luthman]

Probably smaller than a game, though.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:47 PM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
> automatically download a large whole operating system update...
>
> https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=
> 0=playstation+4+update
>
>
>

[AFMUG] Playstation 4 software update

[Eric Kuhnke]

In the very near future all PS4 with an internet connection are going to
automatically download a large whole operating system update...

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en=us=nws=0=playstation+4+update

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Josh Reynolds]

I have alpha, beta, and release radios from them that haven't been touched
since they were installed. Some 5 years old.

On Sep 16, 2016 1:23 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any
> UBNT product
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
>> har to pay those $900!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Paul might be willing to take a look at it.
>>>
>>> *From:* Daniel White 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth
>>> it IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>>>
>>> ConVergence Technologies
>>>
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>
>>> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a
>>> bit too much
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>  Virus-free.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Dennis Burgess]

Or just use a device that won’t let one device eat up the entire pipe?


Thanks,

Dennis Burgess – Network Engineer/Consutant
MikroTik Certified 
Trianer/Consultant
 – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
Cambium ePMP Certified, Telrad Certified, Cisco CCNA

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
RF Mapping: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
dmburg...@linktechs.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Eric Kuhnke
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 11:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

They want to know specifically what device/IP address/MAC address on their LAN 
is moving a lot of traffic (like a kid's gaming PC with Steam, or an XboxOne, 
or whatever)?  I would suggest some sort of home router that can do per device 
cumulative accounting like this. The $50 ubnt edgerouter has this in its GUI, I 
believe.  Or the $99 one.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:36 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
> wrote:

so we got this:
"Can yotu help us somehow figure out what is using all of our data? We have 
looked at the daily usage and can not figure it out. There are days that we 
have been gone for several hours and the usage is VERY high. Then days we are 
home have been extremely low. We are at a loss; can you help us or recommend 
someone who can. Is there a way to break this down hourly? Thanks!
--"


this is the one in ten request, the other 9 are normally "we didnt do this you 
people are lying,we never use the internet, our kids follow rules, youre 
cheating us" in a real catty voice


screw those 9 douches, its usually one of the spouses porn affliction, the kids 
game console. or the fact they leave 5 units running in the house with netflix 
on autoplay, if theyre not illegally torrenting some shit.


but, there is the one, who arent cocks, they genuinely want to know. We arent 
providing them a router, so monitoring from there directly is out

we just recently moved DNS to us (huge value I have already found) So whats the 
best way (to the account, not the individual machine) to track this down, in 
our environment, We have mikrotik 1100ahx2 from to AP to the edge, and for the 
firs time, I actually want to set up a tool to help the 10 percent and if you 
guys who know more than me can spit out a script to drop in to monitor this 
customer I can pretend I have value within th company. .



If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Josh Baird]

Maybe not.. but AF-24's are pretty much set-and-forget if they are
installed properly.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:23 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any
> UBNT product
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini 
> wrote:
>
>> with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
>> har to pay those $900!
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>>
>>> Paul might be willing to take a look at it.
>>>
>>> *From:* Daniel White 
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
>>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>> I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth
>>> it IMHO.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Daniel White
>>>
>>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>>>
>>> ConVergence Technologies
>>>
>>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>>
>>> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
>>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a
>>> bit too much
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>  Virus-free.
>>> www.avast.com
>>> 
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

I have a hard time believing youll get the SAF set and forget from any UBNT
product

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 1:17 PM, Gino Villarini  wrote:

> with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
> har to pay those $900!
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:
>
>> Paul might be willing to take a look at it.
>>
>> *From:* Daniel White 
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>
>>
>> I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth
>> it IMHO.
>>
>>
>>
>> You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>>
>> ConVergence Technologies
>>
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>
>> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
>> *To:* Animal Farm 
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>>
>>
>>
>> Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?
>>
>>
>>
>> SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a
>> bit too much
>>
>>
>> 
>>  Virus-free.
>> www.avast.com
>> 
>>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Gino Villarini]

with mimosa radios at $1400 and UBNT comming out with a $700 radio.. its
har to pay those $900!

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 2:10 PM,  wrote:

> Paul might be willing to take a look at it.
>
> *From:* Daniel White 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
> I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth it
> IMHO.
>
>
>
> You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Gino Villarini
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
> *To:* Animal Farm 
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?
>
>
>
> Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?
>
>
>
> SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a bit
> too much
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
>

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[chuck]

Paul might be willing to take a look at it.  

From: Daniel White 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 12:07 PM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth it IMHO.

 

You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.

 

Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

 

Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?

 

SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a bit too 
much


 Virus-free. www.avast.com  

Re: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?

[Daniel White]

I’ll let SAF speak for itself, but what they do for that money is worth it IMHO.



You never know where the rabbit hole goes with ESD damage.



Daniel White

Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

ConVergence Technologies

Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

dwh...@converge-tech.com 



From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:34 AM
To: Animal Farm 
Subject: [AFMUG] SAF Lumina Repairs?



Anyone know who offers out of warranty Lumina repairs?



SAF is charging us $900+ for ESD/Surge damaged radios... I think its a bit too 
much



---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Tim Reichhart]

too bad that netbox cant be switched to mysql because iwisp.gr is planning on 
putting phpipam in there billing/monitoring software.




-Original Message-
From: "Josh Reynolds" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 09/16/16 01:44 PM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash


I liked netbox, but it was still pre-release when I played with it. They were 
the talk of /r/networking for awhile. 
On Sep 16, 2016 10:51 AM, "Simon Westlake"  wrote:
 Check out https://github.com/digitalocean/netbox


On 9/16/2016 10:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
 
phpipam isnt developed anymore
I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and has 
everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered up 
enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and reporting 
features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and integrated it, id 
be so exited Id get the vapors.
 
 
On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Check out phpipam 
 On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:
 We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the skin 
of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have gladiator 
fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in the last one 
disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the office up there 
looks like something out of mad max.


But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is absolutely 
useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the feel of the portal 
interface, I would prefer we had the ability to manipulate it more, but I also 
want my own pony named Miguel. 
Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh, but I 
think you have that with any company depending on the work load.


What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it, The 
server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It performs 
well in a decent VM host. 


It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there used 
to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development cycle, 
which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.


It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel 
spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is such a 
beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.


The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email 
accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its only 
good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because it doesnt 
offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation


My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a recurring 
cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so that does say 
something about the product.


I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50 
whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always 
gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens, but 
they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something external and 
outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.


There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets and 
times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.


If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of valuation, 
its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were looking into them, 
and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some really amazing data, 
but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


 
 
 On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl and 
linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey, what do 
you want for nothing?

Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't think of 
anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


peace

Vlad



On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing systems?

I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)

Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard anything 
bad so that's a good sign?

Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?




 

 



--

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
 
 
 
 



--

If you 

[AFMUG] Upgrading Multiple Cambium radios with CNUT

[Sam Lambie]

Is there a way to upgrade more than one default radios on the bench through
CNUT? I thought about putting up an AP and upgrading them that way via ICC,
but that is even more of a cabling mess.

Sam

-- 
-- 
*Sam Lambie*
Taosnet Wireless Tech.
575-758-7598 Office
www.Taosnet.com 

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Josh Reynolds]

With DPI turned on (and facing LAN) all of the edgerouter models can.

On Sep 16, 2016 11:26 AM, "Eric Kuhnke"  wrote:

> They want to know specifically what device/IP address/MAC address on their
> LAN is moving a lot of traffic (like a kid's gaming PC with Steam, or an
> XboxOne, or whatever)?  I would suggest some sort of home router that can
> do per device cumulative accounting like this. The $50 ubnt edgerouter has
> this in its GUI, I believe.  Or the $99 one.
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:36 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>
>> so we got this:
>> "Can yotu help us somehow figure out what is using all of our data? We
>> have looked at the daily usage and can not figure it out. There are days
>> that we have been gone for several hours and the usage is VERY high. Then
>> days we are home have been extremely low. We are at a loss; can you help us
>> or recommend someone who can. Is there a way to break this down hourly?
>> Thanks!
>> --"
>>
>>
>> this is the one in ten request, the other 9 are normally "we didnt do
>> this you people are lying,we never use the internet, our kids follow rules,
>> youre cheating us" in a real catty voice
>>
>>
>> screw those 9 douches, its usually one of the spouses porn affliction,
>> the kids game console. or the fact they leave 5 units running in the house
>> with netflix on autoplay, if theyre not illegally torrenting some shit.
>>
>>
>> but, there is the one, who arent cocks, they genuinely want to know. We
>> arent providing them a router, so monitoring from there directly is out
>>
>> we just recently moved DNS to us (huge value I have already found) So
>> whats the best way (to the account, not the individual machine) to track
>> this down, in our environment, We have mikrotik 1100ahx2 from to AP to the
>> edge, and for the firs time, I actually want to set up a tool to help the
>> 10 percent and if you guys who know more than me can spit out a script to
>> drop in to monitor this customer I can pretend I have value within th
>> company. .
>>
>>
>>
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Josh Reynolds]

I liked netbox, but it was still pre-release when I played with it. They
were the talk of /r/networking for awhile.

On Sep 16, 2016 10:51 AM, "Simon Westlake"  wrote:

> Check out https://github.com/digitalocean/netbox
>
> On 9/16/2016 10:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:
>
> phpipam isnt developed anymore
> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
> has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
> up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
> reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
> integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Check out phpipam
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
>>> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
>>> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
>>> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
>>> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>>>
>>> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
>>> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
>>> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
>>> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
>>> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets
>>> meh, but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>>>
>>> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
>>> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
>>> performs well in a decent VM host.
>>>
>>> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
>>> (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
>>> development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
>>> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
>>> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>>>
>>> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
>>> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
>>> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
>>> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>>>
>>> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
>>> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
>>> that does say something about the product.
>>>
>>> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
>>> 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
>>> always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
>>> happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
>>> something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
>>> them.
>>>
>>> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on
>>> tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it
>>> up.
>>>
>>> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
>>> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
>>> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
>>> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>>>
 We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of
 perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but
 hey, what do you want for nothing?

 Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
 think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
 The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


 peace

 Vlad



 On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

>
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
> systems?
>
> I've been looking at;
>
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill
> my customers)
>
> Visp seems like a decent option?
>
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>
>
>
>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Josh Reynolds]

Uh since when? They just did a release in June.

On Sep 16, 2016 10:49 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> phpipam isnt developed anymore
> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
> has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
> up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
> reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
> integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Check out phpipam
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
>>> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
>>> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
>>> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
>>> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>>>
>>> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
>>> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
>>> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
>>> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
>>> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets
>>> meh, but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>>>
>>> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
>>> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
>>> performs well in a decent VM host.
>>>
>>> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
>>> (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
>>> development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
>>> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
>>> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>>>
>>> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
>>> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
>>> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
>>> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>>>
>>> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
>>> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
>>> that does say something about the product.
>>>
>>> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
>>> 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
>>> always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
>>> happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
>>> something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
>>> them.
>>>
>>> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on
>>> tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it
>>> up.
>>>
>>> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
>>> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
>>> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
>>> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>>>
 We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of
 perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but
 hey, what do you want for nothing?

 Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
 think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
 The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


 peace

 Vlad



 On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

>
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
> systems?
>
> I've been looking at;
>
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill
> my customers)
>
> Visp seems like a decent option?
>
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>
>
>
>

>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> 

Re: [AFMUG] Historical 18 GHz system

[Colin Stanners]

Nice, do you know who the manufacturer/model was?

Jpeg attached.

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

[SmarterBroadband]

+1

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Gino Villarini
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
To: Animal Farm
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

 

We love it! We have standardized on it 

 

-looks way better that a SM+dish, more professional

-gain the same or 1-2db better

-easier to assemble / align 

-less windload 

 

 

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they don't 
like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.

Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the regular 
450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either way.  What 
are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance difference in an 
apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to get too excited about 
1 dB.

Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the connectorized 
450i SM, which is pretty pricey. 

 

Re: [AFMUG] [SPAM?] Cambium 450d

[SmarterBroadband]

We really like the 450d over reflectors or connectorized with panel.
All in one.  Easy to aim. Love them.


-Original Message-
From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Ken Hohhof
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [SPAM?] [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they
don't like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.

Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the
regular 450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either
way.  What are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance
difference in an apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to
get too excited about 1 dB.

Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the connectorized
450i SM, which is pretty pricey. 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Cassidy B. Larson]

phpipam is developed still. I see plenty of commits this month:

https://github.com/phpipam/phpipam

It’s just slowed down a bit for actual releases.



> On Sep 16, 2016, at 9:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm 
>  wrote:
> 
> phpipam isnt developed anymore
> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and has 
> everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered up 
> enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and reporting 
> features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and integrated it, id 
> be so exited Id get the vapors.
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds  > wrote:
> Check out phpipam
> 
> 
> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  > wrote:
> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the skin 
> of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have gladiator 
> fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in the last one 
> disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the office up there 
> looks like something out of mad max.
> 
> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is absolutely 
> useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the feel of the 
> portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to manipulate it more, 
> but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh, but 
> I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
> 
> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it, The 
> server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It 
> performs well in a decent VM host.
> 
> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there 
> used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development 
> cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
> 
> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel 
> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is such 
> a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
> 
> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email 
> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its 
> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because it 
> doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
> 
> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a recurring 
> cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so that does say 
> something about the product.
> 
> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50 
> whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always 
> gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens, but 
> they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something external 
> and outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.
> 
> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets and 
> times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.
> 
> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of valuation, 
> its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were looking into 
> them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some really amazing 
> data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
> 
> 
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  > wrote:
> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl and 
> linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey, what do 
> you want for nothing?
> 
> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't think 
> of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
> 
> 
> peace
> 
> Vlad
> 
> 
> 
> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
> 
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
> systems?
> 
> I've been looking at;
> 
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
> 
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
> customers)
> 
> Visp seems like a decent option?
> 
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
> 
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
> 
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
> part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
> 
> 
> 
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team 

Re: [AFMUG] Cambium 450d

[Gino Villarini]

We love it! We have standardized on it

-looks way better that a SM+dish, more professional
-gain the same or 1-2db better
-easier to assemble / align
-less windload


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 12:51 PM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they
> don't like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.
>
> Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the
> regular 450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either
> way.  What are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance
> difference in an apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to
> get too excited about 1 dB.
>
> Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the
> connectorized 450i SM, which is pretty pricey.
>
>

[AFMUG] Cambium 450d

[Ken Hohhof]

I see several WISPs deploying the 450d, but I suspect it's because they 
don't like reflector dishes, or because of the 40M license key.


Cambium has indicated the 450d has a little more antenna gain than the 
regular 450 SM plus a reflector dish, but the spec sheets say 25 dBi either 
way.  What are people really seeing in the field?  Is there a performance 
difference in an apples-to-apples comparison?  How much?  I'm not going to 
get too excited about 1 dB.


Otherwise, we're looking at the connectorized 450 SM.  Or the connectorized 
450i SM, which is pretty pricey. 

[AFMUG] Cheap Canopy 430 Gear!!!!

[Gino Villarini]

10+ 5.7 and 5.4 APs = $200 ea
10+ 5.7 and 5.4 Sectors = $25

40+ 5.7 and 5.4 SMs = $20 ea

plus shipping

take them from me!!

[AFMUG] Free Canopy Gear - pay shipping + handling

[Gino Villarini]

Need to clean up our warehouse.

Got 100+ 5200 SMs, 10+ APs, 10+ LMG Sectors and omnis


Pay for shipping and a small handling fee for us to cover packaging and
they all yours!

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Carl Peterson]

They claim they are on target to hit break even in 5 years (a year from
now).  Guessing that means that revenue covers the cost of paying back the
bond + OPEX which seems about right assuming they continue to add subs at a
reasonable clip.  Despite all the hype, this seems like a pretty good deal
for the citizens of this town who took the risk taking out the bond.  Who
cares if no one wants the gig service now?  Doesn't really seem relevant to
the question of wether the project makes fiscal sense or not.  Being able
to get money for next to nothing over 20 years does a heck of a lot towards
making FTTH make sense.

Now for the real question.  Once the town starts making a profit, is it
reasonable for them to take that money and plow it into other things or
should they start cutting prices so as to cover expenses and not make a
profit?  It would seem to me that it would make sense to fund a future
maintenance/upgrade fund, and then cut prices.  My feeling is that it is
appropriate for governments to run utilities, but not for governments to
run utilities as profit centers to fund other operations.

Hard to compete with, but it makes a ton of sense if you have an efficient
local government that knows what they are doing working at the bequest of
its citizens.



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:19 PM, Josh Luthman 
wrote:

> Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.
>
>
> Josh Luthman
> Office: 937-552-2340
> Direct: 937-552-2343
> 1100 Wayne St
> Suite 1337
> Troy, OH 45373
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller <
> par...@cyberbroadband.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500
>> for gig speeds?
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> *From:* Rory Conaway 
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>>
>> I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you
>> hammered me.
>>
>>
>>
>> We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if
>> CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps
>> circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change
>> although that’s early results.   We are finding price is better.
>>
>>
>>
>> Rory
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *CBB - Jay Fuller
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain
>> when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to
>> seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was
>> wide open
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> - Original Message -
>>
>> *From:* ch...@wbmfg.com
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>>
>>
>>
>> Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 or
>> 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy.  I never
>> increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024.  Never saw an
>> increase in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.
>>
>>
>>
>> What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a
>> significant usage of a Gig?  Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the
>> next thing  you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can
>> watch at one time.  I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most
>> folks will not even fully utilize 50M in the near future.
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Ken Hohhof 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>>
>>
>>
>> Interesting.
>>
>>
>>
>> Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the
>> 110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less
>> revenue per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage.  This is probably
>> the marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs.  If some killer app comes out
>> that actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* CBB - Jay Fuller 
>>
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM
>>
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>>
>> *Subject:* [AFMUG] The latest gig city
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> One subscriber at the gig level
>>
>>
>>
>> http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broad
>> band-subscriber/
>>
>>
>>
>> Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 

Carl Peterson

*PORT NETWORKS*

401 E Pratt St, Ste 2553

Baltimore, MD 21202

(410) 637-3707

Re: [AFMUG] Leads wanted for a source for 1U rackmount enclosures.

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

might try these partner companies, I dont know how small the quantities are
they manufacture per run
Very good family run companies
http://www.technical-metals.com/
http://www.hoffmantool.com/



On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:24 AM, Eric Kuhnke  wrote:

> Protocase made the enclsoures for the first several generations of
> Backblaze storage pods, they have some standard 1U designs that are
> basically folded steel  (or aluminum) pizza boxes you can customize.
>
> http://www.protocase.com/
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
> li...@packetflux.com> wrote:
>
>> @!#?@!.
>>
>> My enclosure manufacturer for the rackmount injectors seems to be AWOL.
>> Lots of productive conversations back and forth over the past few months,
>> but now it comes time to actually finalize prints and order the first
>> batch, and well.. nothing.   Evidently sending them a finalized drawing and
>> asking for instructions on how to get these ordered is a good way to get
>> them to quit responding.
>>
>> I'm still hopeful that this is just a bump on the road (someone's on
>> vacation, they're backlogged, etc.), but this just isn't a good sign.
>>
>> If anyone is aware of a supplier which can make 1U enclosures, in
>> reasonable quantities (50-100 at a time, not sure how many a year,
>> hopefully lots more than that), and most importantly at a reasonable price,
>> I'd appreciate the lead.
>>
>> I'm reviewing all of the well-known enclosure manufacturers (Bud, OKW,
>> Hammond, Schroff, etc.) to see if I can fit into one of them and can get
>> them modified at a price which I think all of you can afford.  Past
>> experience indicates to me that there is a good chance that this isn't
>> going to be productive, which is why I'm asking.
>>
>> --
>> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
>> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
>> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>> 
>>   
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Eric Kuhnke]

They want to know specifically what device/IP address/MAC address on their
LAN is moving a lot of traffic (like a kid's gaming PC with Steam, or an
XboxOne, or whatever)?  I would suggest some sort of home router that can
do per device cumulative accounting like this. The $50 ubnt edgerouter has
this in its GUI, I believe.  Or the $99 one.

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 6:36 PM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

>
> so we got this:
> "Can yotu help us somehow figure out what is using all of our data? We
> have looked at the daily usage and can not figure it out. There are days
> that we have been gone for several hours and the usage is VERY high. Then
> days we are home have been extremely low. We are at a loss; can you help us
> or recommend someone who can. Is there a way to break this down hourly?
> Thanks!
> --"
>
>
> this is the one in ten request, the other 9 are normally "we didnt do this
> you people are lying,we never use the internet, our kids follow rules,
> youre cheating us" in a real catty voice
>
>
> screw those 9 douches, its usually one of the spouses porn affliction, the
> kids game console. or the fact they leave 5 units running in the house with
> netflix on autoplay, if theyre not illegally torrenting some shit.
>
>
> but, there is the one, who arent cocks, they genuinely want to know. We
> arent providing them a router, so monitoring from there directly is out
>
> we just recently moved DNS to us (huge value I have already found) So
> whats the best way (to the account, not the individual machine) to track
> this down, in our environment, We have mikrotik 1100ahx2 from to AP to the
> edge, and for the firs time, I actually want to set up a tool to help the
> 10 percent and if you guys who know more than me can spit out a script to
> drop in to monitor this customer I can pretend I have value within th
> company. .
>
>
>
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] Leads wanted for a source for 1U rackmount enclosures.

[Eric Kuhnke]

Protocase made the enclsoures for the first several generations of
Backblaze storage pods, they have some standard 1U designs that are
basically folded steel  (or aluminum) pizza boxes you can customize.

http://www.protocase.com/



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 4:08 AM, Forrest Christian (List Account) <
li...@packetflux.com> wrote:

> @!#?@!.
>
> My enclosure manufacturer for the rackmount injectors seems to be AWOL.
> Lots of productive conversations back and forth over the past few months,
> but now it comes time to actually finalize prints and order the first
> batch, and well.. nothing.   Evidently sending them a finalized drawing and
> asking for instructions on how to get these ordered is a good way to get
> them to quit responding.
>
> I'm still hopeful that this is just a bump on the road (someone's on
> vacation, they're backlogged, etc.), but this just isn't a good sign.
>
> If anyone is aware of a supplier which can make 1U enclosures, in
> reasonable quantities (50-100 at a time, not sure how many a year,
> hopefully lots more than that), and most importantly at a reasonable price,
> I'd appreciate the lead.
>
> I'm reviewing all of the well-known enclosure manufacturers (Bud, OKW,
> Hammond, Schroff, etc.) to see if I can fit into one of them and can get
> them modified at a price which I think all of you can afford.  Past
> experience indicates to me that there is a good chance that this isn't
> going to be productive, which is why I'm asking.
>
> --
> *Forrest Christian* *CEO**, PacketFlux Technologies, Inc.*
> Tel: 406-449-3345 | Address: 3577 Countryside Road, Helena, MT 59602
> forre...@imach.com | http://www.packetflux.com
>   
>   
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

The WISPmans creed:

This is my Billing System. There are many like it, but this one is all mine.
My Billing System is my best friend. It is my life. I must master it as I
must master my life.
Without me, my Billing System is useless. Without my Billing system, I am
useless. I must bill my customer true. I must bill straighter than my enemy
who is trying to take my customers. I must take his before he takes mine. I
will...

My Billing System and I know that what counts in war is not the customers
we fire, the tokens of our burst, nor the money we make. We know that it is
the bits that count. We will deliver bits...

My Billing System is human, even as I, because it is my life. Thus, I will
learn it as a brother. I will learn its weaknesses, its strength, its
parts, its accessories, its APIs and its hooks. I will keep my Billing
System clean and ready, even as I am clean and ready. We will become part
of each other. We will...

Before God, I swear this creed. My Billing System and I are the defenders
of my customers. We are the masters of our enemy. We are the saviors of my
life.

So be it, until victory is America's and there is no enemy, but peace!

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:09 AM, Dennis Burgess 
wrote:

> I will give you the best answer.  DO NOT RELY ON ANYONE.  I.e. everyone
> has things that they need, then things they want.  Every network is a bit
> different, and overall, when you look at all of these guys, you need to
> understand what you require and what you would like to have.  Go through
> all of these and compare notes, put a value  on each of your requirements
> and would likes.  I have found that there is no one system that does it all
> perfectly   I know people who have had issues in the past, and that’s good
> information to use, but don’t let it sway you from at least getting the
> sales pitch from said company.  You need to be in charge of what you have
> and make an educated decision.
>
>
>
> So yes, good feedback is great, but make sure you do your research as
> well.  I have found some companies want a hosted solution and some require
> that it’s not. So again lots of options.  Also look at integrations with
> other systems as well, how can you integrate it into your work flow and
> processes.
>
>
>
> Just a short list of systems, not in the order of recommendation, just off
> the top of my head…
>
>
>
> · VISP
>
> · PowerCode
>
> · Azotel
>
> · Billmax
>
> · Sonar
>
> · Plat
>
> · Freeside
>
> · SwiftFox
>
>
>
> I would think those are the major WISP Centric platforms, again not
> recommending any of them but I have always found one or two does something
> really good, and the rest try, but don’t do it as well, so your research is
> key to picking one.
>
>
>
>
>
> Thanks,
>
>
>
> *Dennis Burgess** – **Network Engineer/Consutant*
>
> MikroTik Certified Trianer/Consultant
>  –
> MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
>
> Cambium ePMP Certified, Telrad Certified, Cisco CCNA
>
>
>
> For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
>
> RF Mapping: www.towercoverage.com
>
> Office: 314-735-0270
>
> dmburg...@linktechs.net
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *TJ Trout
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 12:51 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash
>
>
>
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
> systems?
>
> I've been looking at;
>
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
> customers)
>
> Visp seems like a decent option?
>
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>
>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[SmarterBroadband]

What Procera / Powercode break?

Are they not working together anymore?

 

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of That One Guy /sarcasm
Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 7:46 PM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

 

lol, for my requested purpose other than dpi, i dont think the mutli 10k 
solution we were quoted was it.

 

 

not being a jerk, but if the unit is on your network, how does it mitigate a 
ddos? will it speak with my upstream that doesnt support blackholes with bgp?

is it working with powercode again since it broke operations with powercode?

will they provide me a document that says theyre legal with the whole "open 
internet" nonsense

 

I really liked them, til we priced them. We invested with netenforcer some time 
ago, it was great at the time because p2p was so destructive to a network at 
the time, but once we moved bandidth beyond a couple T1s they decided we needed 
a good old fashioned no spit raping. I say the same structure in procera... 
then the powercode break happenned, and I didnt care if it got resolved, it 
broke.

 

 

I can toss a sniifer on or dump a mirrored port. I think I may have indicated I 
care more than I do. I was primarily asking if my current environment had a 
tool that consiststed of this much work: what IP are you curious about? (I 
input the IP, maybe click my mouse less than 10 times and key in less than ten 
more digits) and i come bak and have a torchish output saying what happenned.

 

if it doesnt stay within that simple of a solution with the gear I have, I dont 
really care to give the ten percent who arent dicks any different answer than 
the 90 who are

 

 

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 8:52 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Huh?

DPI? QoS? DDOS Protection? CGNAT? Customer Support Tools?

You talk a lot about a product it doesn't seem like you've ever used.

 

On Sep 15, 2016 8:42 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

yeah, crazy thing about that, not looking to drop multiple 10ks at once to have 
a nice guy on a product that quits working with the management system and is 
questionably legal beyond monitoring :-)

 

On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 8:37 PM, Josh Reynolds  wrote:

Procera :P

 

On Sep 15, 2016 8:36 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:




so we got this:

"Can yotu help us somehow figure out what is using all of our data? We have 
looked at the daily usage and can not figure it out. There are days that we 
have been gone for several hours and the usage is VERY high. Then days we are 
home have been extremely low. We are at a loss; can you help us or recommend 
someone who can. Is there a way to break this down hourly? Thanks!
--"

 

 

this is the one in ten request, the other 9 are normally "we didnt do this you 
people are lying,we never use the internet, our kids follow rules, youre 
cheating us" in a real catty voice

 

 

screw those 9 douches, its usually one of the spouses porn affliction, the kids 
game console. or the fact they leave 5 units running in the house with netflix 
on autoplay, if theyre not illegally torrenting some shit.

 

 

but, there is the one, who arent cocks, they genuinely want to know. We arent 
providing them a router, so monitoring from there directly is out

 

we just recently moved DNS to us (huge value I have already found) So whats the 
best way (to the account, not the individual machine) to track this down, in 
our environment, We have mikrotik 1100ahx2 from to AP to the edge, and for the 
firs time, I actually want to set up a tool to help the 10 percent and if you 
guys who know more than me can spit out a script to drop in to monitor this 
customer I can pretend I have value within th company. .

 

 

 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

 





 

-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Chuck McCown]

Fanboy comments don’t count ... 

;-)

(Funny, how adopting a platform as critical as billing triggers the 
“confirmation bias” circuit in your brain and you become an evangelist rather 
than exhibiting buyers remorse.  Happens with politics and religion all the 
time).  

From: Josh Luthman 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:48 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

My opinion, yes.  Very much so.  I got my complaints fixed sooner. 

You can also see their public git commits - https://powercode.com/work.php



Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

  Powercode without Simon is like a castrated bull.  Looks like a bull but can 
it get the job done as things change into the future?

  From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

  We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the skin 
of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have gladiator 
fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in the last one 
disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the office up there 
looks like something out of mad max. 

  But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is absolutely 
useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the feel of the portal 
interface, I would prefer we had the ability to manipulate it more, but I also 
want my own pony named Miguel. 
  Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh, but 
I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.

  What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it, The 
server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It performs 
well in a decent VM host. 

  It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there 
used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development cycle, 
which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.

  It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel 
spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is such a 
beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

  The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email 
accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its only 
good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because it doesnt 
offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

  My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a recurring 
cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so that does say 
something about the product.

  I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50 
whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always 
gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens, but 
they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something external and 
outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.

  There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets and 
times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.

  If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of valuation, 
its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were looking into them, 
and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some really amazing data, 
but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


  On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl 
and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey, what 
do you want for nothing?

Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't think 
of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


peace

Vlad 



On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:


  Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
systems?

  I've been looking at;

  Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

  Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)

  Visp seems like a decent option?

  Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
anything bad so that's a good sign?

  Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

  Sonar? Maybe that's the one?










  -- 

  If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Dennis Burgess]

I will give you the best answer.  DO NOT RELY ON ANYONE.  I.e. everyone has 
things that they need, then things they want.  Every network is a bit 
different, and overall, when you look at all of these guys, you need to 
understand what you require and what you would like to have.  Go through all of 
these and compare notes, put a value  on each of your requirements and would 
likes.  I have found that there is no one system that does it all perfectly   I 
know people who have had issues in the past, and that’s good information to 
use, but don’t let it sway you from at least getting the sales pitch from said 
company.  You need to be in charge of what you have and make an educated 
decision.

So yes, good feedback is great, but make sure you do your research as well.  I 
have found some companies want a hosted solution and some require that it’s 
not. So again lots of options.  Also look at integrations with other systems as 
well, how can you integrate it into your work flow and processes.

Just a short list of systems, not in the order of recommendation, just off the 
top of my head…


· VISP

· PowerCode

· Azotel

· Billmax

· Sonar

· Plat

· Freeside

· SwiftFox

I would think those are the major WISP Centric platforms, again not 
recommending any of them but I have always found one or two does something 
really good, and the rest try, but don’t do it as well, so your research is key 
to picking one.


Thanks,

Dennis Burgess – Network Engineer/Consutant
MikroTik Certified 
Trianer/Consultant
 – MTCNA, MTCRE, MTCWE, MTCTCE, MTCINE
Cambium ePMP Certified, Telrad Certified, Cisco CCNA

For Wireless Hardware/Routers visit www.linktechs.net
RF Mapping: www.towercoverage.com
Office: 314-735-0270
dmburg...@linktechs.net

From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of TJ Trout
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 12:51 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash


Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing systems?

I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)

Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard anything 
bad so that's a good sign?

Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Josh Luthman]

Couldn't have said it better myself.  I'd jump ship off Powercode in a
heart beat if there was a reason to and something to go to, but I just
don't see that happening in reality.  Even if an alternative was completely
free, one mistake could cost me more money than what Powercode costs for a
year (billing mistake, operational issue on our end, etc).  The office rent
costs more than what Powercode does and I could do without the office (most
of the time =).

Sonar has a major advantage of starting from scratch while have a lot of
experienced and talented team.  From my point of view, it's going to give
Powercode a run from its money.  The users will benefit from competition.


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:55 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

> Simon is awesome, and Sonar seems to be developing into a great platform.
> However, I agree with Josh.  Powercode has definitely improved since he
> left.  Issues are quicker to get resolved, and tickets are responded to
> more promptly.  I doubt any of this was the fault of Simon being the lead
> developer, but rather a restructuring of responsibilities that took place
> after he left.  I have no doubt that Sonar will end up being one of the
> best solutions out there.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> phpipam isnt developed anymore
>> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
>> has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
>> up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
>> reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
>> integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Check out phpipam
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by
 the skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
 gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
 the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
 office up there looks like something out of mad max.

 But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
 absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
 feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
 manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
 Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets
 meh, but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.

 What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
 The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
 performs well in a decent VM host.

 It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
 (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
 development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.

 It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
 spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
 such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

 The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
 accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
 only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
 it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

 My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
 recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
 that does say something about the product.

 I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
 always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
 happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
 something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
 them.

 There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on
 tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it
 up.

 If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
 valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
 looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
 really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


 On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

> We've been running Freeside for the 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Simon is a rockstar. he did alot to move powercode forward and got its
momentum up with a good trajectory, and seemed to have built his exit into
it without setting it on fire before he left

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:55 AM, Jeremy  wrote:

> Simon is awesome, and Sonar seems to be developing into a great platform.
> However, I agree with Josh.  Powercode has definitely improved since he
> left.  Issues are quicker to get resolved, and tickets are responded to
> more promptly.  I doubt any of this was the fault of Simon being the lead
> developer, but rather a restructuring of responsibilities that took place
> after he left.  I have no doubt that Sonar will end up being one of the
> best solutions out there.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> phpipam isnt developed anymore
>> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
>> has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
>> up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
>> reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
>> integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Check out phpipam
>>>
>>> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
 We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by
 the skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
 gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
 the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
 office up there looks like something out of mad max.

 But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
 absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
 feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
 manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
 Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets
 meh, but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.

 What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
 The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
 performs well in a decent VM host.

 It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
 (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
 development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.

 It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
 spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
 such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

 The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
 accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
 only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
 it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

 My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
 recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
 that does say something about the product.

 I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
 always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
 happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
 something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
 them.

 There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on
 tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it
 up.

 If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
 valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
 looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
 really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


 On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of
> perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but
> hey, what do you want for nothing?
>
> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
> think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
>
>
> peace
>
> Vlad
>
>
>
> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
>>
>> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on
>> 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Simon Westlake]

Check out https://github.com/digitalocean/netbox

On 9/16/2016 10:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm wrote:

phpipam isnt developed anymore
I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy 
and has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I 
havent sobered up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the 
documentory and reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram 
bought it out and integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds > wrote:


Check out phpipam


On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"
> wrote:

We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who
escaped by the skin of his teeth after murdering the guy
before him I think they have gladiator fights for the lead
role because every time a new lead comes in the last one
disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
office up there looks like something out of mad max.

But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component
is absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable.
Customers like the feel of the portal interface, I would
prefer we had the ability to manipulate it more, but I also
want my own pony named Miguel.
Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally
it gets meh, but I think you have that with any company
depending on the work load.

What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to
manage it, The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job
if it needs rebuilt. It performs well in a decent VM host.

It really appears they are moving away from user driven
development (there used to be constant interaction) toward
more of a programmed development cycle, which is good and bad,
but mostly a positive move.

It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of
excel spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont
think there is such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

The ticketing system became super useful once they added
external email accounts, it allowed us to decommission a
secondary ticketing system. Its only good for our ISP side,
not our contract services side however because it doesnt offer
clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that
generates a recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a
beneficial recurring cost, so that does say something about
the product.

I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its
usually 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in
their system, but it always gets resolved. We have an ongoing
issue with email fetching that happens, but they gave me a cli
tool to resolve it, and its caused by something external and
outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.

There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics
on tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will
eventually clean it up.

If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type
of valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that
when we were looking into them, and I think you could tie in
crystal reports to get some really amazing data, but it seems
like Azotel went to sleep


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov > wrote:

We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It
takes a bit of perl and linux knowledge to get it running
(or just download the VM), but hey, what do you want for
nothing?

Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these
days.. Can't think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP
billing system should have.
The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very
WISP-friendly.


peace

Vlad



On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:


Could I trouble you all for a quick survey /
recommendation on billing systems?

I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this
company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a
dev just to bill my customers)

Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem
high, haven't heard anything bad so that's a good sign?

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Chuck McCown]

I think so, but I don’t personally provision or do  support so my knowledge is 
from the sales pitch info.  We use it and customers love it.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:54 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I guess my question is whether you can go to My Calix or whatever the user 
portal is called and see data usage by device, by application, or both.  That 
would take care of Steve’s situation, I think.  Customer wants to know what is 
using all those gigabytes.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I honestly don’t know the cost of the cloud control app.  I think you have to 
pay Calix something so parents can control the router.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I wonder if people call the water company asking what is using so much water?  
Or the electric company?  Probably they refer you to a list of most common 
reasons like taking long showers, toilet always running, leaking garden hose.

Also, anybody currently using the Calix Gigacenters, is this something the 
customer can get from the cloud based user portal?  Data usage by device and/or 
application?  That really seems like the ultimate solution, charge the customer 
a monthly fee for a something they can use themselves to answer such questions.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I was 
hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in at the 
premise to log everything, but its no big deal. 
theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at 260 
today

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t want 
to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the guy.  
I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for a fee.

  If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and true 
method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.

  On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what 
application is using bandwidth:
  
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-the-bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/

  That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles, 
streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.

  I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as the 
customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again, unfortunately, this 
was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi.  
Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.


  From: Daniel White 
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

  Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about to 
get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on October 10th 
at WISPAPALOOZA.



  Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.



  There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can give 
you any good advice:



  -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource 
perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they cannot 
troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure it out.

  -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so common 
sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you have at 
the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200 router would 
tell you what device has the heavy usage… and that might narrow it down enough

  -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the customer 
router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?  Mikrotik on 
the customer prem would give you a lot of information

  -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the 
traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify may 
be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help



  To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi solution.  
You control the router at the customer prem, you have more resources to help 
troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your collecting money every 
month for the privilege.



  Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and they 
are hitting their cap?



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Jeremy]

Simon is awesome, and Sonar seems to be developing into a great platform.
However, I agree with Josh.  Powercode has definitely improved since he
left.  Issues are quicker to get resolved, and tickets are responded to
more promptly.  I doubt any of this was the fault of Simon being the lead
developer, but rather a restructuring of responsibilities that took place
after he left.  I have no doubt that Sonar will end up being one of the
best solutions out there.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:49 AM, That One Guy /sarcasm <
thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:

> phpipam isnt developed anymore
> I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
> has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
> up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
> reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
> integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
> wrote:
>
>> Check out phpipam
>>
>> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
>> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
>>> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
>>> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
>>> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
>>> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>>>
>>> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
>>> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
>>> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
>>> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
>>> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets
>>> meh, but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>>>
>>> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
>>> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
>>> performs well in a decent VM host.
>>>
>>> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
>>> (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
>>> development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>>>
>>> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
>>> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
>>> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>>>
>>> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
>>> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
>>> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
>>> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>>>
>>> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
>>> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
>>> that does say something about the product.
>>>
>>> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
>>> 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
>>> always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
>>> happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
>>> something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
>>> them.
>>>
>>> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on
>>> tickets and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it
>>> up.
>>>
>>> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
>>> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
>>> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
>>> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>>>
>>>
>>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>>>
 We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of
 perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but
 hey, what do you want for nothing?

 Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
 think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
 The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


 peace

 Vlad



 On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:

>
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
> systems?
>
> I've been looking at;
>
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill
> my customers)
>
> Visp seems like a decent option?
>
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
> anything bad so 

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Ken Hohhof]

I guess my question is whether you can go to My Calix or whatever the user 
portal is called and see data usage by device, by application, or both.  That 
would take care of Steve’s situation, I think.  Customer wants to know what is 
using all those gigabytes.


From: Chuck McCown 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:29 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I honestly don’t know the cost of the cloud control app.  I think you have to 
pay Calix something so parents can control the router.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I wonder if people call the water company asking what is using so much water?  
Or the electric company?  Probably they refer you to a list of most common 
reasons like taking long showers, toilet always running, leaking garden hose.

Also, anybody currently using the Calix Gigacenters, is this something the 
customer can get from the cloud based user portal?  Data usage by device and/or 
application?  That really seems like the ultimate solution, charge the customer 
a monthly fee for a something they can use themselves to answer such questions.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I was 
hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in at the 
premise to log everything, but its no big deal. 
theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at 260 
today

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t want 
to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the guy.  
I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for a fee.

  If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and true 
method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.

  On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what 
application is using bandwidth:
  
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-the-bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/

  That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles, 
streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.

  I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as the 
customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again, unfortunately, this 
was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi.  
Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.


  From: Daniel White 
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

  Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about to 
get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on October 10th 
at WISPAPALOOZA.



  Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.



  There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can give 
you any good advice:



  -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource 
perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they cannot 
troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure it out.

  -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so common 
sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you have at 
the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200 router would 
tell you what device has the heavy usage… and that might narrow it down enough

  -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the customer 
router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?  Mikrotik on 
the customer prem would give you a lot of information

  -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the 
traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify may 
be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help



  To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi solution.  
You control the router at the customer prem, you have more resources to help 
troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your collecting money every 
month for the privilege.



  Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and they 
are hitting their cap?



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:11 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage



  Well... sandvine, wind river, etc can cost more than a nice house in San 
Francisco. :)



  On Sep 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

phpipam isnt developed anymore
I have an idle racktables server ready for production, its ugly/sexy and
has everything I want except that its got a learning curve I havent sobered
up enough to get a full grasp on, but its got all the documentory and
reporting features I want, would love it if Bertram bought it out and
integrated it, id be so exited Id get the vapors.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:43 AM, Josh Reynolds 
wrote:

> Check out phpipam
>
> On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
>> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
>> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
>> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
>> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>>
>> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
>> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
>> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
>> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
>> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh,
>> but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>>
>> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
>> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
>> performs well in a decent VM host.
>>
>> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development
>> (there used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed
>> development cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>>
>> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
>> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
>> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>>
>> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
>> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
>> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
>> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>>
>> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
>> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
>> that does say something about the product.
>>
>> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually
>> 50/50 whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it
>> always gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that
>> happens, but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by
>> something external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against
>> them.
>>
>> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets
>> and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.
>>
>> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
>> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
>> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
>> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>>
>>> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of
>>> perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but
>>> hey, what do you want for nothing?
>>>
>>> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
>>> think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
>>> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
>>>
>>>
>>> peace
>>>
>>> Vlad
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>>

 Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
 systems?

 I've been looking at;

 Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

 Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
 customers)

 Visp seems like a decent option?

 Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
 anything bad so that's a good sign?

 Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

 Sonar? Maybe that's the one?




>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
>> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Josh Luthman]

My opinion, yes.  Very much so.  I got my complaints fixed sooner.

You can also see their public git commits - https://powercode.com/work.php


Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 11:43 AM, Chuck McCown  wrote:

> Powercode without Simon is like a castrated bull.  Looks like a bull but
> can it get the job done as things change into the future?
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash
>
> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>
> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh,
> but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>
> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
> performs well in a decent VM host.
>
> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there
> used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development
> cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>
> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>
> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>
> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
> that does say something about the product.
>
> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50
> whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always
> gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens,
> but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something
> external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.
>
> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets
> and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.
>
> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>
>> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl
>> and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey,
>> what do you want for nothing?
>>
>> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
>> think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
>> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
>>
>>
>> peace
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
>>> systems?
>>>
>>> I've been looking at;
>>>
>>> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>>>
>>> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
>>> customers)
>>>
>>> Visp seems like a decent option?
>>>
>>> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
>>> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>>>
>>> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>>>
>>> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Actually with the water company, yes. They must be under some mandate of
conservation or something because if the usage pattern gets odd they will
send a guy with a stethoscope out to locate. at least American Water does
around here, it could be a part of their municipal franchise contract though

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 10:26 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> I wonder if people call the water company asking what is using so much
> water?  Or the electric company?  Probably they refer you to a list of most
> common reasons like taking long showers, toilet always running, leaking
> garden hose.
>
> Also, anybody currently using the Calix Gigacenters, is this something the
> customer can get from the cloud based user portal?  Data usage by device
> and/or application?  That really seems like the ultimate solution, charge
> the customer a monthly fee for a something they can use themselves to
> answer such questions.
>
>
> *From:* That One Guy /sarcasm 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>
> Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I
> was hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in
> at the premise to log everything, but its no big deal.
> theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at
> 260 today
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:
>
>> Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t
>> want to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the
>> guy.  I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for
>> a fee.
>>
>> If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and
>> true method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.
>>
>> On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what
>> application is using bandwidth:
>> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-the-
>> bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/
>>
>> That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles,
>> streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.
>>
>> I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as
>> the customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again,
>> unfortunately, this was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet
>> cable instead of WiFi.  Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.
>>
>>
>> *From:* Daniel White 
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>>
>>
>> Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about
>> to get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on
>> October 10th at WISPAPALOOZA.
>>
>>
>>
>> Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.
>>
>>
>>
>> There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can
>> give you any good advice:
>>
>>
>>
>> -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource
>> perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they
>> cannot troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure
>> it out.
>>
>> -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so
>> common sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you
>> have at the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200
>> router would tell you what *device* has the heavy usage… and that might
>> narrow it down enough
>>
>> -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the
>> customer router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?
>> Mikrotik on the customer prem would give you a lot of information
>>
>> -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the
>> traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify
>> may be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help
>>
>>
>>
>> To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi
>> solution.  You control the router at the customer prem, you have more
>> resources to help troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your
>> collecting money every month for the privilege.
>>
>>
>>
>> Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and
>> they are hitting their cap?
>>
>>
>>
>> Daniel White
>>
>> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>>
>> ConVergence Technologies
>>
>> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>>
>> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
>> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 1:11 AM
>> *To:* af@afmug.com
>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>>
>>
>>
>> Well... sandvine, wind river, etc can cost more than a nice house in San
>> Francisco. :)
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sep 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Chuck McCown]

Powercode without Simon is like a castrated bull.  Looks like a bull but can it 
get the job done as things change into the future?

From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the skin 
of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have gladiator 
fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in the last one 
disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the office up there 
looks like something out of mad max. 

But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is absolutely 
useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the feel of the portal 
interface, I would prefer we had the ability to manipulate it more, but I also 
want my own pony named Miguel. 
Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh, but I 
think you have that with any company depending on the work load.

What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it, The 
server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It performs 
well in a decent VM host. 

It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there used 
to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development cycle, 
which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.

It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel 
spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is such a 
beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email 
accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its only 
good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because it doesnt 
offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a recurring 
cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so that does say 
something about the product.

I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50 
whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always 
gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens, but 
they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something external and 
outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.

There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets and 
times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.

If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of valuation, 
its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were looking into them, 
and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some really amazing data, 
but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

  We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl and 
linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey, what do 
you want for nothing?

  Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't think 
of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
  The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


  peace

  Vlad 



  On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:


Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
systems?

I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)

Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
anything bad so that's a good sign?

Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?










-- 

If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as 
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Josh Reynolds]

Check out phpipam

On Sep 16, 2016 10:39 AM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" 
wrote:

> We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
> skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
> gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
> the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
> office up there looks like something out of mad max.
>
> But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
> absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
> feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
> manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
> Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh,
> but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.
>
> What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it,
> The server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
> performs well in a decent VM host.
>
> It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there
> used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development
> cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.
>
> It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
> spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
> such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.
>
> The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
> accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
> only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
> it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation
>
> My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a
> recurring cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so
> that does say something about the product.
>
> I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50
> whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always
> gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens,
> but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something
> external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.
>
> There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets
> and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.
>
> If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
> valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
> looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
> really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:
>
>> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl
>> and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey,
>> what do you want for nothing?
>>
>> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
>> think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
>> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
>>
>>
>> peace
>>
>> Vlad
>>
>>
>>
>> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
>>> systems?
>>>
>>> I've been looking at;
>>>
>>> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>>>
>>> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
>>> customers)
>>>
>>> Visp seems like a decent option?
>>>
>>> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
>>> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>>>
>>> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>>>
>>> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team
> as part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.
>

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Chuck McCown]

Curious, name an obstacle that needs to be removed.
Not saying there are none.  There are plenty.
Just curious which one could be removed.

-Original Message- 
From: Ken Hohhof

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:39 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

He didn't say it was easy or cheap.  More like it can be done, if you fill
out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else.

I have to agree.  If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they
should be removed for everyone.  Not just Google because they're special.
(insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking
winners and losers, etc.)  I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber
unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels.  Cry
me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored.


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


From: "Mike Hammett"

You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want.

 Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your
friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay
an arm and a leg for the pleasure?

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

We use Powercode, they ebb and flow. Other than simon who escaped by the
skin of his teeth after murdering the guy before him I think they have
gladiator fights for the lead role because every time a new lead comes in
the last one disappears off the face of the earth. I imagine being in the
office up there looks like something out of mad max.

But overall, its a satisfying product, the inventory component is
absolutely useless, but the rest is pretty reliable. Customers like the
feel of the portal interface, I would prefer we had the ability to
manipulate it more, but I also want my own pony named Miguel.
Support responsiveness is normally pretty good, occasionally it gets meh,
but I think you have that with any company depending on the work load.

What I do like about it, is that I dont have to know much to manage it, The
server build is down to a cut and past CLI job if it needs rebuilt. It
performs well in a decent VM host.

It really appears they are moving away from user driven development (there
used to be constant interaction) toward more of a programmed development
cycle, which is good and bad, but mostly a positive move.

It would be nice if they had clean IPAM, i still have a set of excel
spreadsheets for master subnet documentation, but I dont think there is
such a beast in IPAM that would satisfy everyone.

The ticketing system became super useful once they added external email
accounts, it allowed us to decommission a secondary ticketing system. Its
only good for our ISP side, not our contract services side however because
it doesnt offer clean time tracking or multiple tech separation

My boss is very frugal when it comes to anything that generates a recurring
cost, and he sees Powercode as a beneficial recurring cost, so that does
say something about the product.

I cuss them every couple months over something or other, its usually 50/50
whether its something I screwed up, or a bug in their system, but it always
gets resolved. We have an ongoing issue with email fetching that happens,
but they gave me a cli tool to resolve it, and its caused by something
external and outside their control, so I cant hold it against them.

There is currently no way to easily reset the tracking metrics on tickets
and times, but thats no deal breaker, they will eventually clean it up.

If youre looking for actual inventory management with any type of
valuation, its definetly not the product. Azotel had that when we were
looking into them, and I think you could tie in crystal reports to get some
really amazing data, but it seems like Azotel went to sleep


On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 9:50 AM, Vlad Sedov  wrote:

> We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of perl
> and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), but hey,
> what do you want for nothing?
>
> Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't
> think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.
> The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.
>
>
> peace
>
> Vlad
>
>
>
> On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:
>
>>
>> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
>> systems?
>>
>> I've been looking at;
>>
>> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>>
>> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
>> customers)
>>
>> Visp seems like a decent option?
>>
>> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
>> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>>
>> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>>
>> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>>
>>
>>
>>
>


-- 
If you only see yourself as part of the team but you don't see your team as
part of yourself you have already failed as part of the team.

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Ken Hohhof]

He didn't say it was easy or cheap.  More like it can be done, if you fill 
out the paperwork, pay your fees, and wait like everybody else.


I have to agree.  If the obstacles need to be taken out of the way, they 
should be removed for everyone.  Not just Google because they're special. 
(insert talking points about level playing field, government not picking 
winners and losers, etc.)  I know, this sounds like complaining that Uber 
unfairly competes with taxis, or Airbnb unfairly competes with hotels.  Cry 
me a river, but it's not so funny if it's your ox getting gored.



-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 10:11 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


From: "Mike Hammett"

You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want.
 Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your 
friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay 
an arm and a leg for the pleasure?


Jared 

[AFMUG] Radio Mobile

[Chuck McCown]

Roger has a beta out that replaces the now inoperative terraserver with 
National Map.  Works like a champ.  Not sure when he will make it GA but I 
greatly appreciate his attention to my query.  Time to make another donation to 
RM.

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Chuck McCown]

I honestly don’t know the cost of the cloud control app.  I think you have to 
pay Calix something so parents can control the router.  

From: Ken Hohhof 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:26 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

I wonder if people call the water company asking what is using so much water?  
Or the electric company?  Probably they refer you to a list of most common 
reasons like taking long showers, toilet always running, leaking garden hose.

Also, anybody currently using the Calix Gigacenters, is this something the 
customer can get from the cloud based user portal?  Data usage by device and/or 
application?  That really seems like the ultimate solution, charge the customer 
a monthly fee for a something they can use themselves to answer such questions.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I was 
hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in at the 
premise to log everything, but its no big deal. 
theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at 260 
today

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t want 
to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the guy.  
I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for a fee.

  If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and true 
method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.

  On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what 
application is using bandwidth:
  
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-the-bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/

  That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles, 
streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.

  I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as the 
customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again, unfortunately, this 
was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi.  
Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.


  From: Daniel White 
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

  Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about to 
get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on October 10th 
at WISPAPALOOZA.



  Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.



  There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can give 
you any good advice:



  -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource 
perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they cannot 
troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure it out.

  -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so common 
sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you have at 
the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200 router would 
tell you what device has the heavy usage… and that might narrow it down enough

  -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the customer 
router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?  Mikrotik on 
the customer prem would give you a lot of information

  -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the 
traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify may 
be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help



  To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi solution.  
You control the router at the customer prem, you have more resources to help 
troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your collecting money every 
month for the privilege.



  Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and they 
are hitting their cap?



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:11 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage



  Well... sandvine, wind river, etc can cost more than a nice house in San 
Francisco. :)



  On Sep 15, 2016 11:40 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

I forgot to caveat the "I want to" with the "I have 0 funding from the boss 
purse"



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Daniel White  wrote:

  Sandvine :-D



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: 

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Chuck McCown]

They still get it in many places.  

From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just 
expecting the red carpet treatment.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
> 
> Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...
  Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to 
prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and 
ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time 
fulfilling?

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Chuck McCown]

The FCC regulates pole contacts.  Duct are owned by the duct owners.  BIAS 
providers have the same access to public utility easements as anyone else.


How are existing competitors denying anyone access to anything?  If a power 
pole is rotten, by law/fed regulation, it must be replaced.  Why should the 
power company be forced to replace a pole at their expense if you want to 
attach your cable to it?


-Original Message- 
From: fiber...@mail.com

Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 7:15 AM
To: af@afmug.com
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city


From: "Harold Bledsoe"

Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...
 Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to 
prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and 
ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard 
time fulfilling?


Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[Ken Hohhof]

I wonder if people call the water company asking what is using so much water?  
Or the electric company?  Probably they refer you to a list of most common 
reasons like taking long showers, toilet always running, leaking garden hose.

Also, anybody currently using the Calix Gigacenters, is this something the 
customer can get from the cloud based user portal?  Data usage by device and/or 
application?  That really seems like the ultimate solution, charge the customer 
a monthly fee for a something they can use themselves to answer such questions.


From: That One Guy /sarcasm 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 9:53 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I was 
hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in at the 
premise to log everything, but its no big deal. 
theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at 260 
today

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

  Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t want 
to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the guy.  
I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for a fee.

  If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and true 
method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.

  On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what 
application is using bandwidth:
  
http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-the-bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/

  That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles, 
streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.

  I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as the 
customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again, unfortunately, this 
was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet cable instead of WiFi.  
Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.


  From: Daniel White 
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
  To: af@afmug.com 
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

  Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about to 
get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on October 10th 
at WISPAPALOOZA.



  Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.



  There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can give 
you any good advice:



  -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource 
perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they cannot 
troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure it out.

  -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so common 
sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you have at 
the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200 router would 
tell you what device has the heavy usage… and that might narrow it down enough

  -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the customer 
router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?  Mikrotik on 
the customer prem would give you a lot of information

  -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the 
traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify may 
be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help



  To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi solution.  
You control the router at the customer prem, you have more resources to help 
troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your collecting money every 
month for the privilege.



  Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and they 
are hitting their cap?



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 1:11 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage



  Well... sandvine, wind river, etc can cost more than a nice house in San 
Francisco. :)



  On Sep 15, 2016 11:40 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm"  
wrote:

I forgot to caveat the "I want to" with the "I have 0 funding from the boss 
purse"



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Daniel White  wrote:

  Sandvine :-D



  Daniel White

  Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales

  ConVergence Technologies

  Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590

  dwh...@converge-tech.com



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of Josh Reynolds
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:37 PM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage



  

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Chuck McCown]

Yeah, I would guess time is the main factor.  I am also guessing they will drop 
it in a few years and go back to fiber.  

From: Harold Bledsoe 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:59 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

RE Google, I don't think it is just a cost thing. I mean they aren't short on 
cash. 

I suspect the other major factor is time. It takes a long time to build out 
fiber to everyone.

Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...

-Hal


On Thu, Sep 15, 2016, 9:19 PM Rory Conaway  wrote:

  And that is why Google is finally figuring out that wireless is cheaper.



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of ch...@wbmfg.com
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:08 PM


  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city



  Fiber has a very long usable life.  Probably 75 years or more. 



  43 month doubling your money is like 8% ROI.  Not too bad.  



  Then at month 44 it is infinite ROI.  How can you complain about that?



  From: Travis Johnson 

  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 4:56 PM

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city



  That's why telco's and cableco's use a 20 or 30 year ROI.

  Travis



  On 9/15/2016 3:19 PM, Josh Luthman wrote:

Takes a long time to pay 43m back with 500/mo revenue.





Josh Luthman
Office: 937-552-2340
Direct: 937-552-2343
1100 Wayne St
Suite 1337
Troy, OH 45373



On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 5:17 PM, CBB - Jay Fuller 
 wrote:



But how do you pay for your fiber installation if you don't charge $500 for 
gig speeds?



  - Original Message - 

  From: Rory Conaway 

  To: af@afmug.com 

  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 12:37 PM

  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city



  I’ve written about this multiple times and if I remember right Mike, you 
hammered me. 



  We are also doing marketing tests right now and found that even if 
CenturyLink can’t maintain NetFlix without buffering with a supposed 10Mbps 
circuit, offering 50Mbps at the same price doesn’t get people to change 
although that’s early results.   We are finding price is better.



  Rory



  From: Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] On Behalf Of CBB - Jay Fuller
  Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:40 AM
  To: af@afmug.com
  Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city





  I remember hearing Chuck Hogg and Gerard Dupont @ Shelby Wireless explain 
when they started fiber they left it wide open for a few months just to 
seethey did not see an unusually large change just because service was wide 
open





- Original Message - 

From: ch...@wbmfg.com 

To: af@afmug.com 

Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2016 11:02 AM

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city



Back in the early days, I doubled the speeds of all of our customers 2 
or 3 times due to competitive pressures and advancements in Canopy.  I never 
increased the price, just went from 256 to 512 to 1024.  Never saw an increase 
in the bandwidth usage on our uplinks.  



What could a Bob and Sally homeowner and their kids do to make a 
significant usage of a Gig?  Of course everyone thinks it is sexy and the next 
thing  you gotta have, but there only so many 4K 3D TVs a person can watch at 
one time.  I guess they could host a server farm etc, but most folks will not 
even fully utilize 50M in the near future.  



From: Ken Hohhof 

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:12 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city



Interesting.



Of course, one way to read the numbers is they could “upgrade” all the 
110/50 customers to 1000/1000 and the only change would be $400 less revenue 
per month, and probably no more bandwidth usage.  This is probably the 
marketing approach of most gigabit ISPs.  If some killer app comes out that 
actually uses gigabit speeds, their bluff is called.





From: CBB - Jay Fuller 

Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2016 11:40 PM

To: af@afmug.com 

Subject: [AFMUG] The latest gig city





One subscriber at the gig level




http://spectator.org/alabamas-gig-city-has-one-gigabit-broadband-subscriber/



Sent from my Verizon 4G LTE Smartphone

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Chuck McCown]

You know the developer of Sonar, cannot go wrong with him.  

From: Adam Moffett 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 5:46 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

Currently there's an in-house system here that dates back to dialup days, so 
I've been keeping an eye on the same players as you are.

Plat isn't as difficult as all that for billing.  It has such an antique look 
and feel it seems like they are overdue for a rewrite of the front end.  The 
only theory I've got is maybe Tucows bought themselves a cow and just wants to 
milk it.  I think their ticketing and scheduling module is clunky as all hell.  
Just count how many clicks and forms it takes to make a ticket or put something 
on the schedule.  I always thought their path to provisioning services was 
weird too.  A Rate Group defines billing line items and default services; 
service definition defines RADIUS settings; but an admin can override the 
service definition on a given customer's rate group so they pay for one service 
and actually receive another.  I think the selected service should define both 
the billing rate and the RADIUS profile, but maybe that's just me.

Sonar seems very slick and ambitious, and I've been watching their progress 
when I can.  I used to wonder if they were biting on too many features at once, 
but they seem to keep pushing things out there.


-- Original Message --
From: "TJ Trout" 
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: 9/16/2016 1:50:54 AM
Subject: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

  Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
systems?

  I've been looking at;

  Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

  Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)

  Visp seems like a decent option? 

  Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
anything bad so that's a good sign?

  Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

  Sonar? Maybe that's the one?

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> From: "Mike Hammett"
> 
> You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want.
  Never ever had a problem with gaining access to poles or ducts from your 
friendly neighborhood incumbent, never experienced any delays nor had to pay an 
arm and a leg for the pleasure?

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage

[That One Guy /sarcasm]

Its not something I want to drop a huge amount of time or effort into, I
was hoping there was just a quick thing. We have fortigates we can drop in
at the premise to log everything, but its no big deal.
theyre on a 300 gb plan, usually use less than 100, but theyre sitting at
260 today

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:34 AM, Ken Hohhof  wrote:

> Or customer could check this from his end.  Problem is customers don’t
> want to do any work or learn any technology, and they don’t want to pay the
> guy.  I’m sure there are computer techs who would come out and do this for
> a fee.
>
> If the data usage is making their Internet “slow”, there’s the tried and
> true method of turning devices off until the problem goes away.
>
> On  computers at least, there is software that can be used to see what
> application is using bandwidth:
> http://www.howtogeek.com/howto/43713/how-to-monitor-
> the-bandwidth-consumption-of-individual-applications/
>
> That gets less useful as people use “devices” like phones, game consoles,
> streaming devices, and iOT instead of actual computers.
>
> I am sometimes willing to watch a realtime graph of bandwidth usage as the
> customer turns off various devices or unplugs them.  Again, unfortunately,
> this was easier when devices plugged in with an Ethernet cable instead of
> WiFi.  Plus apps run all the time on portable devices.
>
>
> *From:* Daniel White 
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 5:33 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>
>
> Okay so outside of my snarky response – I’d first say Sandvine is about to
> get really exciting.  But I’ll leave that to our vendor session on October
> 10th at WISPAPALOOZA.
>
>
>
> Steve – my no budget friend with monkeys throwing poo at him.
>
>
>
> There are a few questions you have to ask before I think any of us can
> give you any good advice:
>
>
>
> -  How much do you really want to help from a time/resource
> perspective?  Most ISP’s would say the router is their demark and they
> cannot troubleshoot beyond that and suggest a local computer tech to figure
> it out.
>
> -  Now let’s assume this is the bosses next door neighbor… so
> common sense goes out the window and help at all costs.  What router do you
> have at the customer prem?  For instance, something like a Cambium R200
> router would tell you what *device* has the heavy usage… and that might
> narrow it down enough
>
> -  Do you have hardware lying around you could replace the
> customer router to get better metrics?  Is that a step you want to take?
> Mikrotik on the customer prem would give you a lot of information
>
> -  What resources do you have at the tower?  You can look at the
> traffic to and from the customer… but what you’re really trying to identify
> may be encrypted… this is where something like Sandvine/Procera would help
>
>
>
> To me – this is the perfect example of why to offer a managed WiFi
> solution.  You control the router at the customer prem, you have more
> resources to help troubleshoot some of this.  And the best part… your
> collecting money every month for the privilege.
>
>
>
> Also –why is the customer concerned about the usage?  Do you do UBB and
> they are hitting their cap?
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Friday, September 16, 2016 1:11 AM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>
>
>
> Well... sandvine, wind river, etc can cost more than a nice house in San
> Francisco. :)
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2016 11:40 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I forgot to caveat the "I want to" with the "I have 0 funding from the
> boss purse"
>
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 15, 2016 at 10:37 PM, Daniel White  wrote:
>
> Sandvine :-D
>
>
>
> Daniel White
>
> Managing Director – Hardware Distribution Sales
>
> ConVergence Technologies
>
> Cell: +1 (303) 746-3590 <%2B1%20%28303%29%20746-3590>
>
> dwh...@converge-tech.com
>
>
>
> *From:* Af [mailto:af-boun...@afmug.com] *On Behalf Of *Josh Reynolds
> *Sent:* Thursday, September 15, 2016 9:37 PM
> *To:* af@afmug.com
> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] documenting customer usage
>
>
>
> Procera :P
>
>
>
> On Sep 15, 2016 8:36 PM, "That One Guy /sarcasm" <
> thatoneguyst...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> so we got this:
>
> "Can yotu help us somehow figure out what is using all of our data? We
> have looked at the daily usage and can not figure it out. There are days
> that we have been gone for several hours and the usage is VERY high. Then
> days we are home have been extremely low. We are at a loss; can you help us
> or recommend someone who can. Is there a way to break this down hourly?
> Thanks!
> --"
>
>
>
>
>
> this is the one in ten request, the 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Vlad Sedov]

We've been running Freeside for the last 10 years. It takes a bit of 
perl and linux knowledge to get it running (or just download the VM), 
but hey, what do you want for nothing?


Feature-wise, freeside is on par with the big boys these days.. Can't 
think of anything it doesn't have that an ISP billing system should have.

The new version even has tower coverage mapping... very WISP-friendly.


peace

Vlad


On 9/16/2016 12:50 AM, TJ Trout wrote:


Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
systems?


I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill 
my customers)


Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
anything bad so that's a good sign?


Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Robbie Wright]

We looked at visp (who seemed awesome), ended up using whmcs with radius
(since we do a decent amount of web hosting) and it's been great. Keeping
an eye on Sonar though, it looks very promising.

On Sep 16, 2016 7:35 AM, "Tim Reichhart" 
wrote:

You can also check out Iwisp.gr that is what I am using.

--
-Original Message-
From: "Cassidy B. Larson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 09/16/16 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

We have been using Platypus for the past 16 years.  It hasn't changed much
in all that time.
Client is still windows-only based. Still runs on SQL server.  There's an
API exposed now, but it's still clunky.  I don't want to run a VM just for
Platypus! Give me a web client!

We've wanted to change for years, but Powercode never ticked all the right
boxes for me. I'm a UI snob and want something that looks like it had some
time put into the user interface.
For me, Powercode felt like it was still using the same design from the
early days and they were just hacking in features on the same backend code.
Every year at wispapalooza we'd walk the floor, seeing what billing systems
were out there.. hoping and praying something better was coming around but
never found anything until Sonar started development.

Sonar looks to be built with Web 3.0 (is that a thing now?) in mind.  I've
been eagerly awaiting their features being pushed out each month so we can
finally bite the bullet and migrate.
They expose web hooks, publish their APIs and all the methods you can use
to integrate with your own systems (critical to us). Integrations with
Slack for ticketing is a big plus.
We're finally excited again about a billing system and I'm planning on
converting by end of year.


We've had demo's from all the ones you've listed.  Most wouldn't scale to
what we needed. I think one had Java client (ugh).

I suggest checking out Sonar.. it's how a billing system in 2016 should
look, operate and perform.

On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:50 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:



Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
systems?

I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
customers)

Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
anything bad so that's a good sign?

Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Tim Reichhart]

You can also check out Iwisp.gr that is what I am using.


-Original Message-
From: "Cassidy B. Larson" 
To: af@afmug.com
Date: 09/16/16 10:30 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

We have been using Platypus for the past 16 years.  It hasn't changed much in 
all that time. 
Client is still windows-only based. Still runs on SQL server.  There's an API 
exposed now, but it's still clunky.  I don't want to run a VM just for 
Platypus! Give me a web client!


We've wanted to change for years, but Powercode never ticked all the right 
boxes for me. I'm a UI snob and want something that looks like it had some time 
put into the user interface.
For me, Powercode felt like it was still using the same design from the early 
days and they were just hacking in features on the same backend code. 
Every year at wispapalooza we'd walk the floor, seeing what billing systems 
were out there.. hoping and praying something better was coming around but 
never found anything until Sonar started development. 


Sonar looks to be built with Web 3.0 (is that a thing now?) in mind.  I've been 
eagerly awaiting their features being pushed out each month so we can finally 
bite the bullet and migrate.
They expose web hooks, publish their APIs and all the methods you can use to 
integrate with your own systems (critical to us). Integrations with Slack for 
ticketing is a big plus. 
We're finally excited again about a billing system and I'm planning on 
converting by end of year.  
 

We've had demo's from all the ones you've listed.  Most wouldn't scale to what 
we needed. I think one had Java client (ugh).


I suggest checking out Sonar.. it's how a billing system in 2016 should look, 
operate and perform. 

On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:50 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
 
Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing systems?
I've been looking at;
Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
customers)
Visp seems like a decent option?
Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard anything 
bad so that's a good sign?
Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
Sonar? Maybe that's the one?



 

 

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Cassidy B. Larson]

We have been using Platypus for the past 16 years.  It hasn’t changed much in 
all that time.
Client is still windows-only based. Still runs on SQL server.  There’s an API 
exposed now, but it’s still clunky.  I don’t want to run a VM just for 
Platypus! Give me a web client!

We’ve wanted to change for years, but Powercode never ticked all the right 
boxes for me. I’m a UI snob and want something that looks like it had some time 
put into the user interface.
For me, Powercode felt like it was still using the same design from the early 
days and they were just hacking in features on the same backend code.
Every year at wispapalooza we’d walk the floor, seeing what billing systems 
were out there.. hoping and praying something better was coming around but 
never found anything until Sonar started development.

Sonar looks to be built with Web 3.0 (is that a thing now?) in mind.  I’ve been 
eagerly awaiting their features being pushed out each month so we can finally 
bite the bullet and migrate.
They expose web hooks, publish their APIs and all the methods you can use to 
integrate with your own systems (critical to us). Integrations with Slack for 
ticketing is a big plus.
We’re finally excited again about a billing system and I’m planning on 
converting by end of year.

We’ve had demo’s from all the ones you’ve listed.  Most wouldn’t scale to what 
we needed. I think one had Java client (ugh).

I suggest checking out Sonar.. it’s how a billing system in 2016 should look, 
operate and perform.

> On Sep 15, 2016, at 11:50 PM, TJ Trout  wrote:
> 
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing 
> systems?
> 
> I've been looking at;
> 
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
> 
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my 
> customers)
> 
> Visp seems like a decent option?
> 
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
> 
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
> 
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Ken Hohhof]

So true.

And where’s our welcome from the Lollipop Guild?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6KSiyaqnZYs

I think most of us remember 10 years ago when customers were enthralled to get 
high speed Internet.  Now people are much less impressed and much more entitled 
regarding Internet.  Instead of thank you, thank you Mr. ISP, it’s more like 
hey, it’s about time, now what have you done for me lately.  Like people don’t 
ooh and aah over the latest iPhone the way they did over the first one.  
Smartphones are a commodity, and so is Internet.


From: Mike Hammett 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:30 AM
To: af@afmug.com 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just 
expecting the red carpet treatment.




-
Mike Hammett
Intelligent Computing Solutions

Midwest Internet Exchange

The Brothers WISP








From: fiber...@mail.com
To: af@afmug.com
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

> From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
> 
> Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...
  Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to 
prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and 
ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time 
fulfilling?

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Jeremy]

I have been using Powercode since it was PowerNOC (even before it was
JabNOC).  It has come a LONG ways since then!  I am mostly happy and would
definitely recommend it.  It is hard for me to imagine moving to anything
else, having done multiple migrations.

On Fri, Sep 16, 2016 at 7:01 AM, Simon Westlake 
wrote:

> There's a couple of others that are mostly billing focused (BillMax,
> Freeside) that are probably similar in functionality to Platypus (although,
> I will confess, I am not intimately familiar with them, so they could have
> some differences.)
>
> I *think* Swiftfox has stopped bringing on new customers - their website
> has said they have a 12-24 month waiting list for a very long time, we've
> had a lot of people migrate from Swiftfox to us that have said Swiftfox has
> stopped development, and they haven't been at a WISPA show for a few years
> now.
>
> On 9/16/2016 7:31 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:
>
> Good list. I'd add Azotel to it also.
>
> Jeff Broadwick
> ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
> 312-205-2519 Office
> 574-220-7826 Cell
> jbroadw...@converge-tech.com
>
> On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:50 AM, TJ Trout  wrote:
>
> Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on billing
> systems?
>
> I've been looking at;
>
> Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)
>
> Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill my
> customers)
>
> Visp seems like a decent option?
>
> Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard
> anything bad so that's a good sign?
>
> Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)
>
> Sonar? Maybe that's the one?
>
>
>
>
> --
> Simon Westlake
> Skype: Simon_Sonar
> Email: simon@sonar.software
> Phone: (702) 447-1247
> ---
> Sonar Software Inc
> The next generation of ISP billing and OSShttps://sonar.software
>
>

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[Mike Hammett]

You can do whatever you want nearly wherever you want. Google was just 
expecting the red carpet treatment. 




- 
Mike Hammett 
Intelligent Computing Solutions 

Midwest Internet Exchange 

The Brothers WISP 




- Original Message -

From: fiber...@mail.com 
To: af@afmug.com 
Sent: Friday, September 16, 2016 8:15:25 AM 
Subject: Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city 

> From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
> 
> Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market... 
Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to prevent 
competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and ducts, or 
are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time 
fulfilling? 

Jared 

Re: [AFMUG] The latest gig city

[fiberrun]

> From: "Harold Bledsoe" 
> 
> Then there's the regulatory challenges they face in every market...
  Is this a polite way of saying that existing regulations do nothing to 
prevent competitors from doing their best to deny Google access to poles and 
ducts, or are there actually any regulations that Google is having a hard time 
fulfilling?

Jared

Re: [AFMUG] Billing system survey rehash

[Simon Westlake]

There's a couple of others that are mostly billing focused (BillMax, 
Freeside) that are probably similar in functionality to Platypus 
(although, I will confess, I am not intimately familiar with them, so 
they could have some differences.)


I *think* Swiftfox has stopped bringing on new customers - their website 
has said they have a 12-24 month waiting list for a very long time, 
we've had a lot of people migrate from Swiftfox to us that have said 
Swiftfox has stopped development, and they haven't been at a WISPA show 
for a few years now.


On 9/16/2016 7:31 AM, Jeff Broadwick - Lists wrote:

Good list. I'd add Azotel to it also.

Jeff Broadwick
ConVergence Technologies, Inc.
312-205-2519 Office
574-220-7826 Cell
jbroadw...@converge-tech.com 

On Sep 16, 2016, at 1:50 AM, TJ Trout > wrote:


Could I trouble you all for a quick survey / recommendation on 
billing systems?


I've been looking at;

Power code ( seems like too many red flags with this company)

Platypus ( good price, but I don't want to become a dev just to bill 
my customers)


Visp seems like a decent option?

Wisp Mon? Don't know much about them, prices seem high, haven't heard 
anything bad so that's a good sign?


Swift fox? ( Seems like unpopular option maybe because they're new?)

Sonar? Maybe that's the one?





--
Simon Westlake
Skype: Simon_Sonar
Email: simon@sonar.software
Phone: (702) 447-1247
---
Sonar Software Inc
The next generation of ISP billing and OSS
https://sonar.software