Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
--
Onward!
Stephen
http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html
--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
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As usual with scientific journalism, the media over hypes the more modest
claims of the original article:
We analyzed bee flight movements in an array of four artificial flowers
maximizing interfloral distances. Starting from a single patch, we
sequentially added three new patches so that if bees
On 19 Sep 2012, at 21:51, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/19/2012 2:39 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
Dear Bruno,
Your remarks raise an interesting question: Could it be that
both the object and the means to generate (or perceive) it are of
equal importance ontologically?
Yes. It comes from
On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone
may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the identity of
all minds, and therefore they would be torturing themselves.
That would
On 20 Sep 2012, at 08:01, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/19/2012 10:50 PM, Stathis Papaioannou wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 11:09 AM, meekerdbmeeke...@verizon.net
wrote:
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone
may be
almost
BRUNO: I think that your metaphysics and reading of Leibniz makes sense for me,
and comp, but I have to say I don't follow your methodology or teaching method
on the religious field, as it contains authoritative arguments.
ROGER: Everything I write should be prefaced with IMHO.
BRUNO:
Hi Craig Weinberg
My understanding of brain scans is that what they are seeing
when one listens to music are electromagnegtic signals. These
can be of some use, but how to interpret them as music
is beyond me. Materialism can monitor the effects of experiences,
which again can be of some use,
Hi Craig Weinberg
There are some descriptive theories of music but no prescriptive theories.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/20/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Craig Weinberg
Receiver:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 11:45, Roger Clough wrote:
BRUNO: I think that your metaphysics and reading of Leibniz makes
sense for me, and comp, but I have to say I don't follow your
methodology or teaching method on the religious field, as it
contains authoritative arguments.
ROGER:
Hi Stathis Papaioannou
The brain is dead meat unless something like vitalism or intelligence
or consciousness is there to not only to provide life but to explain
how the brain works. How is the brain able to focus its cacophony
of electromagnetic signals into a perception ?
For the brain is
Hi meekerdb
I would say that one necessary ability for
life is for an organism to be able to separate itself off
from its environment and thus to be able to make its
own decisions without outside interference. In
other words, to be autonomous.
Materialism provides no such focussing tool.
I
Hi Bruno Marchal
Everything that God does by definition is just.
God is righteous and he is justice itself.
Perhaps it is not the best, but the best possible
action in this contingent world.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/20/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end.
Hi Bruno Marchal
God is just but he has to apply his justice to a
contingent, imperfect world-- although Leibniz
suggests that it is the best posible world.
The scientific method cannot tell the just from the unjust.
Would you trust your fate to the scientific method ?
I sure wouldn't.
Roger
Hi Bruno Marchal
The nazis did everything by the scientific method-
using Darwin as a guide.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/20/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
- Receiving the following content -
From: Bruno Marchal
Receiver:
Hi Bruno Marchal
If you want to be the one who judges, who decides what
is best or if it is logical or not, that's not trust, it's
the way of the world. Secularism.
The problem with secularism is that it cannot
help you in a time of suffering or sorrow.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
Collective consciousness
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
--
Onward!
Stephen
http://webpages.charter.net/stephenk1/Outlaw/Outlaw.html
--
You received this
Hi Craig Weinberg
Consciousness requires an autonomous self.
So does life itself. And intelligence.
So, I hagte to say this, but perhaps consciousness and life may be a
problem with mereology, don't know.
Also, have you seen Jan Smuts' Holism?
Maybe he solved the problem.
He was a lousy
On 20 Sep 2012, at 12:03, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
Pragmatically speaking, the self has to be a singular, focussed point.
I have trouble understanding how that can be done with a network of
nerve signals.
The semantic of all programs, like the so called denotational
On 20 Sep 2012, at 12:54, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
I would say that one necessary ability for
life is for an organism to be able to separate itself off
from its environment and thus to be able to make its
own decisions without outside interference. In
other words, to be autonomous.
Hi Craig Weinberg
You can see from all of the flack I get here
that being a believer, since you believe in something
seemingly to be nonsense (especially to the scientific
mind), those that think rightly have the obligation
to try to save you from this insanity. No surprises
there. It certainly
Hi Jason Resch
Love means to love somebody else, other than yourself.
To do that, you must trust that person.
You will partly submit your will to them,
or at least not dominate them. You will
want to give things to that person.
So love, trusting, submission and giving are
all tangled together
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 2:28:05 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 2:28 PM, Craig Weinberg whats...@gmail.comwrote:
oof, this is getting too long. truncation ahoy... the upgraded Google
Groups keeps spontaneously disposing of my writings.
On Wednesday, September
Hi meekerdb
You can only find the truth of the Bible by reading it as a little child.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
9/20/2012
Forever is a long time, especially near the end. -Woody Allen
---
-
Hi meekerdb
1) That statement about Hell is hyperbole, an overstatement to get a point
across.
Jesus also said Nobody who does not hate his mother and father can follow me.
2) I would reply to Epicurus that if he thinks life
ios bad as it is, he has no idea how much worse it would
be without
Hi Bruno Marchal
You could be right, but as I see it,
organizing and focusing all of that complex network
of nerves and their signals into a singular mental point would
--to my mind at least-- be done by a singular intelligent agent.
A self, in other words. And an intelligent self
would
Hi Craig Weinberg ,
Because consciousness at the most is not physical
and at the least it is a verb rather than a noun,
that fellow below, in his search for consciousness,
is like the early spanish explorers searching
for the lost seven cities of gold.
Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net
On Wed, Sep 19, 2012 at 7:56 PM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
On Wednesday, September 19, 2012 1:41:33 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
wrote:
I am not saying arithmetic = music; I have no idea about that, just that
the two can't do without each other.
I think that is
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Because we know for a fact that our consciousness correlates with
neural activity ...
We don't know that. It is a theory, a belief, an assumption, ...
Some people have believed that consciousness correlates to the state
of the liver.
We
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:14:25 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Because we know for a fact that our consciousness correlates with neural
activity ...
We don't know that. It is a theory, a belief, an assumption, ...
Some people
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of physics,
then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal machines using
only empty space? Length can be quantified, so why can't we just use
millimeters or Planck
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of physics,
then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal machines using
only empty
On 20 Sep 2012, at 16:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:14:25 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Because we know for a fact that our consciousness correlates with
neural activity ...
We don't know that. It is a
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:46:16 AM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
wrote:
I'm not so sure about there is nothing but a conceptual sculpture of
abstraction.
What would music be if there was no such thing as sound? What would you
call it if it could not be expressed through a
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:55:27 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 16:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:14:25 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Because we know for a fact that our
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
What's to explain? The bees found the shortest route. Do you suffer from the
misconception that NP-hard = insoluble? NP is just a description of how a
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48:15 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg
whats...@gmail.comjavascript:
wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of physics,
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the probability one. In
Kripke terms, P(x) = 1 in world alpha means that x is realized in all worlds accessible
from alpha, and (key point) that we are not in a cul-de-sac world.
What does
On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone may be almost
contradictory, for they may realize the identity of all minds, and therefore they
On 20 Sep 2012, at 17:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal
machines using only empty space?
You are quite
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:29:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God
and our neighbor.
That's like thinking that if a person does drugs with you they can't be a
cop. Either the devil has free will, in which
Hi Roger,
Is this post related the the e-mail thread? If so I am missing how. Could
you clarify?
Thanks,
Jason
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 7:09 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
Love means to love somebody else, other than yourself.
To do that, you must trust that
On 9/20/2012 7:14 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Because we know for a fact that our consciousness correlates with neural
activity ...
We don't know that. It is a theory, a belief, an assumption, ...
Some people have believed that consciousness
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:19:30 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Consciousness requires an autonomous self.
Human consciousness requires an autonomous human self, but it is not
necessarily true that consciousness requires a 'self'. It makes more sense
to say that an
On 9/20/2012 9:35 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:29:18 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
The devil could not write the Bible for it asks us to love God
and our neighbor.
That's like thinking that if a person does drugs with you they can't
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 17:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be
Reflected eternal song(s) dressed in the illusion of time. As far as I can
see: proportions, relationships, ratios. Time makes them appear to chat and
sing; but in some sense every song has already been sung, even if they've
never been voiced or heard.
Beethoven was almost completely deaf while
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:14, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
A modal logic of probability is given by the behavior of the
probability one. In Kripke terms, P(x) = 1 in world alpha means
that x is realized in all worlds accessible from alpha, and (key
point) that
On 20 Sep 2012, at 18:17, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone
may be almost contradictory, for they may realize
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
Brain experiments by I forget who were performed by
touching the brain at various points with a probe.
With each point, the patient reported a different
experience was being recalled.
On the other
On 9/20/2012 11:06 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 5:21 AM, Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net
mailto:rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Hi Jason Resch
Brain experiments by I forget who were performed by
touching the brain at various points with a probe.
With each
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 1:25:48 PM UTC-4, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
wrote:
Reflected eternal song(s) dressed in the illusion of time. As far as I can
see: proportions, relationships, ratios.
That's what I mean by a conceptual sculpture of abstraction. It's not
real though.
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:46 AM, Platonist Guitar Cowboy
multiplecit...@gmail.com wrote:
Could you imagine sound doing this?
http://www.ideaconnection.com/innovation-videos/396-levitating-liquid-with-sound.html?ref=nl091912
Thanks for that, it is really cool. I like the top YouTube
On 9/20/2012 7:41 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 12:54, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
I would say that one necessary ability for
life is for an organism to be able to separate itself off
from its environment and thus to be able to make its
own decisions without outside
On 9/20/2012 6:54 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi meekerdb
I would say that one necessary ability for
life is for an organism to be able to separate itself off
from its environment and thus to be able to make its
own decisions without outside interference. In
other words, to be autonomous.
On 9/20/2012 7:15 AM, Richard Ruquist wrote:
Collective consciousness
Interesting. What links the bees together such that a collective
is possible?
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 3:22 AM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.net wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
On 9/20/2012 9:08 AM, Roger Clough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg ,
Because consciousness at the most is not physical
and at the least it is a verb rather than a noun,
that fellow below, in his search for consciousness,
is like the early spanish explorers searching
for the lost seven cities of gold.
Roger Clough rclo...@verizon.net wrote:
Everything that God does by definition is just.
So much for religion giving morality a rock solid foundation, all it means
is that God wants it. We should do good and avoid evil for one and only one
reason, a loving God will torture us for eternity if
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:55:10 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
You can see from all of the flack I get here
that being a believer, since you believe in something
seemingly to be nonsense (especially to the scientific
mind), those that think rightly have the
On 9/20/2012 11:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal
machines using only empty space? Length can be quantified,
On 9/20/2012 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg
whatsons...@gmail.com mailto:whatsons...@gmail.com wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
On 9/20/2012 12:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:55:27 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 16:47, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 10:14:25 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal
wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 14:27,
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
What's to explain? The bees found the shortest route. Do you suffer
from the misconception that NP-hard = insoluble?
On 9/20/2012 12:14 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 11:48:15 AM UTC-4, Jason wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg
whats...@gmail.com javascript: wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the
On 9/20/2012 12:17 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 2:28 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 03:09, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/19/2012 5:41 PM, Jason Resch wrote:
Also, the concept of a super intelligent entity torturing someone
may be almost contradictory, for they may realize the
On 9/20/2012 12:26 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 17:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be possible for us to program universal
machines
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 8:50:20 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 11:02 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is independent of
physics, then shouldn't it be possible
On 9/20/2012 12:55 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:19:30 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Consciousness requires an autonomous self.
Human consciousness requires an autonomous human self, but it is not
necessarily true that consciousness
On 9/20/2012 6:25 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
What's to explain? The bees found the shortest route. Do you suffer from
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:10:39 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg
whats...@gmail.comjavascript:
wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of
On 9/20/2012 1:16 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 12:26:07 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote:
On 20 Sep 2012, at 17:02, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are discussing here is
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:49:58 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:55 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:19:30 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Consciousness requires an autonomous self.
Human consciousness
Did no one actually read the abstract of the article I sent?
There were only 4 locations and the bees did not even use the optimum paths
all the time.
Jason
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:25 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012
On 9/20/2012 5:25 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:55:10 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
You can see from all of the flack I get here
that being a believer, since you believe in something
seemingly to be nonsense (especially to the
On 9/20/2012 9:45 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:23:08 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King
wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:05 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
snip
Hi Craig,
You need to show how we can get some kind of closure in the
map for this to work...
On 9/20/2012 9:49 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
Physical computers are assembled substances which exhibit exceptionally
normative, controllable, and observable behaviors.
Craig
To understand a thing is to control a thing.
--
Onward!
Stephen
On 9/20/2012 9:50 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 6:25 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
http://www.qmul.ac.uk/media/news/items/se/38864.html
What's to explain? The bees found
On 9/20/2012 10:04 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 9:49:58 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King
wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:55 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote:
On Thursday, September 20, 2012 7:19:30 AM UTC-4, rclough wrote:
Hi Craig Weinberg
Consciousness
On 9/20/2012 8:17 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 9:50 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 6:25 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
On 9/20/2012 11:27 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 8:17 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 9:50 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 6:25 PM, Stephen P. King wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:09 PM, meekerdb wrote:
On 9/20/2012 12:22 AM, Stephen P. King wrote:
Any one up to explaining this:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 8:10 PM, Stephen P. King stephe...@charter.netwrote:
On 9/20/2012 11:48 AM, Jason Resch wrote:
On Thu, Sep 20, 2012 at 10:02 AM, Craig Weinberg whatsons...@gmail.comwrote:
Here's another reductio ad absurdum illustration of comp.
If the version of comp we are
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