Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
trip how could A's acceleration slow time but B's not slow time by the same amount? Edgar On Friday, January 31, 2014 1:59:59 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: A is traveling at near light speed most of the trip

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Everything is geometry Yet time does slow... So aren't those 2 statements contradictory? Edgar On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:25:33 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 1/31/2014 10:59 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 30, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: A is traveling at near light speed most of the trip. That's why B sees A's clock slow Yes. And from A's point of view he's standing still and B is traveling at near light speed, so A sees B's clock running slow. Both would see the others

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
explain in PLAIN ENGLISH rather than your usual cryptic notations and (undefined in the context) terminology.. Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 3:27:08 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Jan 2014, at 13:13, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Liz, Your mouth sure has to move a lot to tell us it's

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
with it in your previous post! Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:45:40 AM UTC-5, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Thursday, January 30, 2014 2:35:49 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Dear Ghibbsa, Thanks for stepping in. And quite pleased to see you accept the obvious fact that the twins

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
experience every moment of their lives... All I can conclude is that your comment above was not objective but unfortunately based on some personal antipathy... Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 10:53:06 AM UTC-5, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:00:16 PM UTC, Edgar L

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: And of course it is OBVIOUS that the twins share a common present moment when they compare clocks. Otherwise they couldn't compare clocks now could they? The fact that they can compare clocks, and agree for example

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
please? The t value of that point obviously can't be the clock time t values of that point because they are different. Thanks, Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 11:30:26 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 9:00 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
is rotating. So how does any change in the direction of acceleration of A have an effect but the continual change in direction of B's acceleration does not? Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 12:46:17 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, February 1, 2014 1:21:41 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 12:31 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Yes, that being at the same point in spacetime is CALLED the present moment that I'm talking about. But your present moment goes beyond that and says

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
with NO problem at all. Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:33:43 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Feb 2014, at 14:39, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Bruno, You have a very strange view of arithmetic if you think it is full of processor cycles. It is the standard understanding of computer science

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
? Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 2:45:17 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Not correct. My present moment does NOT say that there is an objective common present moment for events that are *not* at the same

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
for sure :) Cheers Telmo. Best, Edgar On Friday, January 31, 2014 8:08:32 AM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: Hi Edgar, On Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 1:13 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net wrote: Liz, Your mouth sure has to move a lot to tell us it's not moving

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 at 1:58 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Not correct. My present moment does NOT say that there is an objective common present moment for events that are *not* at the same point in spaceTIME (my emphasis). My theory says that there is a common universal

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, February 1, 2014 5:18:38 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 4:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, PS: If coordinate time is just saying that when the twins meet up again they are actually at the SAME point in spacetime, but we don't know (can't

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
that is not clock time, and is not any single coordinate time. Edgar On Saturday, February 1, 2014 7:23:19 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, You already told us that the twins ARE at the same point in spacetime when

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Feb 01, 2014 at 03:46:37PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: c. Therefore during the trip there must always be a one to one correspondence between those actual present moments even though the clock times are not in synch. Because they both begin and end in that present moment and never leave

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-01 Thread Edgar L. Owen
7:23:19 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, You already told us that the twins ARE at the same point in spacetime when they meet up again. Is that not an OBJECTIVE fact? Do we not actually KNOW that? The twins

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Edgar L. Owen
On Saturday, February 1, 2014 8:51:28 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/1/2014 9:46 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: One might think it was the acceleration that slowed time on A's clock, BUT the point is that A's

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-02 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Feb 1, 2014 at 7:57 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: One might think it was the acceleration that slowed time on A's clock, BUT the point is that A's acceleration was only 1g throughout the entire trip which was exactly EQUAL to B's gravitational acceleration back

Re: Better Than the Chinese Room

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
against anyone that might speak against it! Edgar On Sunday, February 2, 2014 5:20:00 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 3 February 2014 00:04, Telmo Menezes te...@telmomenezes.comjavascript: wrote: On Sat, Feb 1, 2014 at 10:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Hi Telmo

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
at 1:25 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: I stated that A began his trip from earth ORBIT, not from blasting off from earth's surface, so A's acceleration is 1g for the ENTIRE trip. Then each would see the others clock as running slower than his own. You might think

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, First thanks for recommending Epstein's book Relativity Visualized. It turns out though that I seem to have independently invented 'Epstein diagrams' myself since I use them both in my book and in my 1997 paper. However I always thought the concept was obvious and never even thought of

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
for the whole trip. So now what's your answer to my original question? Edgar On Monday, February 3, 2014 5:42:48 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 09:29, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote: John, A couple of points in response. Yes, I agree that both A and B see each other's

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and Einstein believed in block time. I've repeatedly asked you to substantiate this claim with some actual quotes from them but you have been unable to do so. Please provide quotes substantiating this or withdraw the claim.

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
. It really couldn't be any simpler... Edgar On Monday, February 3, 2014 7:19:42 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 12:44, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote: Liz, You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and Einstein believed in block time

Newton's Bucket and Mach's Principle - A proposed solution..

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
All, Mach's Principle (to explain Newton's Bucket) is an important principle that has profound implications. I provide a novel theory in my book on Reality (available on Amazon under my name) which I think is convincing. It's a consequence of a fairly detailed theory explaining how spacetime

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
? Edgar On Monday, February 3, 2014 7:37:44 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 6:44 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Liz, You keep repeating your UNSUBSTANTIATED claim that both Newton and Einstein believed in block time. I've repeatedly asked you

The habitable epoch of the early universe

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
All FYI only, Edgar Abraham Loeb, 2014. The habitable epoch of the early universe. arXiv:1312.0613v2 [6pp]. ABSTRACT. In the redshift range 100(1+z)137, the cosmic microwave background (CMB) had a temperature of 273-373K (0-100 degrees Celsius), allowing early rocky planets (if any existed) to

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
nonsense. I'll let you get on with scoring imaginary points, and stick with people who have something meaningful to say. On 4 February 2014 13:50, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote: Liz, Liz, Liz! OK, now you ADMIT that neither Newton or Einstein believed in block time

Re: Newton's Bucket and Mach's Principle - A proposed solution..

2014-02-03 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 8:21:41 PM UTC-5, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, Mach's Principle (to explain Newton's Bucket) is an important principle that has profound implications. I provide a novel theory in my book on Reality (available on Amazon under my name) which I think is convincing. It's a consequence

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, That's possible but it's only one quote and considering the circumstances it could have just been an attempt to provide comfort to the grieving family. Also Einstein is known to have spoken

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
-time: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rietdijk-Putnam_argument [image: Inline images 1] On 4 February 2014 16:34, Jesse Mazer laser...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:28 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, That's possible but it's only one

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Ghibbsa, The implications of block time for individual lives are very clear. It means you are a zombie with no free will in a mindless dead universe in which nothing actually happens and your miserable life and death are already written. Of course it's not true, but that's what it means.

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
says block time is a BS theory. Edgar On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 2:12:02 AM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 17:11, ghi...@gmail.com javascript: wrote: On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 12:19:42 AM UTC, Liz R wrote: On 4 February 2014 12:44, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net wrote: Liz

Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
All, 1. In my view real science means only the equations that actually work to predict events and the logical framework in which those equations are meaningfully applied. In a more restrictive sense real science is only the ACTUAL computations that actually compute the actual state of reality.

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
get an answer and I'll be a believer in block time too! :-) Best, Edgar On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 10:14:43 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 8:19 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, I agree that the evidence is that Einstein very probably believed

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, Come on now. The well established fact that it is impossible to always establish CLOCKTIME simultaneity of distant events does NOT require or even imply block time. What it actually implies is that everything is MOVING in clock time and if things actually move in clock time that is

Re: Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-04 Thread Edgar L. Owen
that gets done. Edgar On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 9:52:06 AM UTC-5, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 2:33:42 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote: All, 1. In my view real science means only the equations that actually work to predict events and the logical framework in which

Re: Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
which makes one suspect they are as much faith based as based in reason. But thankfully you seem to be the happy exception here. Much appreciated! Best, Edgar On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 6:29:59 PM UTC-5, ghi...@gmail.com wrote: On Tuesday, February 4, 2014 7:13:02 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
:41:56 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Tue, Feb 4, 2014 at 2:00 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Come on now. The well established fact that it is impossible to always establish CLOCKTIME simultaneity of distant events does NOT require or even imply block time

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 at 3:29 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote The question is why when A gets to the center of the galaxy and stops That's the key point to remember, A comes to a stop. And during the deceleration process things would no longer be symmetrical, A would see B's clock

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, February 3, 2014 11:00:49 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Mon, Feb 3, 2014 at 8:40 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Liz, Talk about confirmation bias! It's SOP when a person can't come up with a real objective scientific rebuttal to an argument that they just flame

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, and anyone else since Brent is not answering my more difficult questions, Take this example: Consider A on the earth and B in geosynchronous orbit directly overhead. By definition there is NO relative motion whatsoever. Nevertheless A's clock runs slower than B's and both A and B

Re: A theory of dark matter...

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, Correct. Yes, plenty of things are not relative. And any notion of a cosmological spacetime is just a useful approximation. Penrose's 'Road to Reality' points out that properly speaking all dimensional world views exist as observer centered individual 'manifolds', and these are not

Re: Discovery of quantum vibrations in brain microtubules confirms Hameroff/Penrose consciousness theory basis

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: both A and B experience the exact same 1g acceleration for the entire trip. Not if A comes to his destination AND STOPS. A's watch doesn't suddenly spring back thousands of year in the second he finally cuts off his acceleration

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
observers in the universe argument follow to prove this present moment is common and universal. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 12:31:50 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 11:22 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, I didn't answer these 3 because you

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
:40:41 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, A couple of points in response: 1. Even WITHOUT my present moment, the well established fact of a 4-d universe does NOT imply block time nor require it. Clock time

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, February 5, 2014 1:40:41 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 10:53 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, A couple of points in response: 1. Even WITHOUT my present moment, the well established fact of a 4-d universe does NOT imply block time nor require

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Feb 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Let me ask you this simple question. You agree that there is a same point in spacetime that both twin meet at and in which their clock times are different. How does your theory, or relativity, account

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, Sure, and that means there is an infinite stack of turtles, each with one more dimension than the one above! Edga On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 3:25:25 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 6 February 2014 08:49, Jesse Mazer laser...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: The point is, you aren't just

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, This is just outrageously wrong. Block time implies the most magical mystical miraculous creation event of all times, of the entire universe from beginning to end, a creation event that makes the Biblical creation event look completely reasonable by comparison. That is the exact

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.aujavascript: wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 07:53:16AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: In fact relativity itself conclusively falsifies block time as it requires everything to be at one and only one point in clock

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Edgar L. Owen wrote: In fact relativity itself conclusively falsifies block time as it requires everything to be at one and only one point in clock time due to the fact that everything always travels at the speed of light through spacetime. I find it baffling that so many

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, February 5, 2014 4:41:33 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 04:21:47PM -0500, Jesse Mazer wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:50 PM, Russell Standish li...@hpcoders.com.aujavascript:wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 07:53:16AM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Russell, That's a block time interpretation, not as you imply anything proven. Certainly the equations themselves don't necessitate that... If you accept that you are faced with the intractable problem of explaining the source of that moving 1p viewpoint. And notice that strictly block time

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 02:21:13PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, No, I never claimed that this means that all points along a path traced out an object moving through space time have exactly the same clock time, because everything travels at c. as you

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, Liz understanding of block time is correct here. I just pointed that same error out to Russell. Even so block time is wrong for the many reasons I've explained. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 5:42:43 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 6 February 2014 11:34, Russell Standish

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
hadn't used it first. Something about glass houses comes to mind Cheers! :-) Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 5:42:11 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 02:21:13PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, No, I never claimed that this means that all points

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
than calculating it from the initial conditions as I asked. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 2:54:39 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 2:35 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Let me ask you this simple question. You agree that there is a same

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
of this lattice to predict the the twins start from the same point in spacetime and end up at another same point in spacetime with different clock times. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 4:00:43 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 3:10 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
. A few googles of orders simpler if I may say so! And I suspect Occam would agree Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:06:20 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, This is just outrageously wrong. Block time

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
that the flow of time is an actual observable fact, an empirical observation of the same status as all the other empirical observations science is anchored in. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:10:40 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:24 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Russell, If it's not intractable, then what's the explanation? Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 6:17:59 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 02:43:32PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, That's a block time interpretation, not as you imply anything proven

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 6:17:59 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 02:43:32PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, That's a block time interpretation, not as you imply anything proven. Certainly the equations themselves don't necessitate that... If you accept that you

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
a difference. So time is necessary in order to compare two things in one's mind. (Page 63 of my book, Theory of Nothing). Cheers On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 03:40:11PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, If it's not intractable, then what's the explanation? Edgar

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
05, 2014 at 03:31:30PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jesse, The fact that the entire universe from start to finish including every even that ever happened and will happen actually somehow exists doesn't imply a creation event?? Come on now Jesse. Let's get real here. Yes

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Russell, Well thankfully a BU does not exist and consciousness CAN be described. That's an advantage of my theory over the BU. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 7:16:15 PM UTC-5, Russell Standish wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 03:58:17PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, I

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, Obviously none since it never happened! Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 7:16:23 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: On 6 February 2014 12:06, Jesse Mazer laser...@gmail.com javascript:wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 5:13 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-05 Thread Edgar L. Owen
...@hpcoders.com.aujavascript: wrote: On Wed, Feb 05, 2014 at 03:05:54PM -0800, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Russell, Now that both Liz and I have corrected your misunderstanding of block time What was my misunderstanding of block time (more usually known as block universe) again? Just a bit of sloppy

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, Yes, and of course the fact that the age of the universe will pretty certainly be calculated everywhere in the universe as the same 13.7 billion years strongly suggest there is a common present universal present moment or time. Edgar On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 7:38:03 PM UTC-5,

Re: Eidetic memory and the comp hypothesis

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
PIerz, Of course the very concept of true eidetic memory is totally impossible. The total amount of data in the local environment in any single second is many orders of magnitude greater than the total capacity of a human brain. No one comes even vaguely close e.g. to remembering the position

Re: Eidetic memory and the comp hypothesis

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Richard, In a weak sense this Akashic records stuff has some merit. The theory I present in my book is that reality is computational. This means that the computational interactions of information forms changes those information forms and those changes encode prior information states in a

Re: Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Dear Ghibbsa, Thanks for the warm and friendly tone of your posts! That's rather the exception here and you set a high standard and a great example for other posters. I think you've been treated really well. It's kind of a given people reject a theory

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, The Hubble age of the universe just means that most observers throughout the unvierse calculate nearly identical CLOCK times for that age. There will be local differences but these will mostly be small due to averaging effects over the life of the universe. This Hubble age is NOT its

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
...@gmail.com wrote: On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 3:53:16 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Jesse, A couple of points in response: 1. Even WITHOUT my present moment, the well established fact of a 4-d universe does NOT imply block time nor require it. Clock time still flows just fine in SR

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Brent, Here once again you are talking about clock time simultaneity. And here again I agree. But you still don't grasp that is NOT the common p-time present moment IN WHICH clock times are either simultaneous or not. Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:45:24 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
might provide one, but I don't see that yet. Again, like consciousness, it's a verifiable empirical observation even though no metric is associated with it. Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:43:45 AM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Quentin, But it's NOT the case... Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 10:52:58 AM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-06 Jesse Mazer laser...@gmail.com javascript:: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:01 AM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: But recall that p-time

Re: Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
wrote: On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:49:23 PM UTC, Edgar L. Owen wrote: Ghibbsa, Hmmm, guess I was a little over optimistic in my praise! I'll retract it if you like. Your previous post must have been a temporary aberration! :-) Best, Edgar what you were actually doing was making

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
On Wednesday, February 5, 2014 7:29:22 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Wed, Feb 5, 2014 at 6:27 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Again, if I understand you, this is just a way to define 'same points in spacetime'. No, it's a way to physically define coordinate

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Quentin, Please refer to my extensive posts to Jesse for that... Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:21:13 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: So, what is it ? What is it supposed to solve in the first place ? 2014-02-06 Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:: Quentin, But it's

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
about what it is supposed to solve... Please state it here and now... do not refer to inexistant post. 2014-02-06 Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:: Quentin, Please refer to my extensive posts to Jesse for that... Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 1:21:13 PM UTC-5, Quentin

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, Once again, for the nth time, you are making statements about CLOCK time simultaneity with which I agree. That has nothing to do with the same present moment of p-time. Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 12:15:16 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Edgar L

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
. Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 12:34:25 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 12:03 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Frankly the utility of this approach seems opaque to me. I don't see how it differs from just being able to calculate the actual

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
define it locally with a reflected light test. But that is not sufficient to explain why. Only my p-time theory seems to be able to do that Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 5:06:55 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
: On 7 February 2014 11:30, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:wrote: But even if they do that, one twin still is REALLY younger than the other. That real actual time disparity can NOT be reset. There is a real absolute time and age difference that relativity can CALCULATE but relativity

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, it can NOT explain or calculate it. Only my p-time theory does this, relativity doesn't Response? Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 5:06:55 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 4:56 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, Once again, for the nth time

Re: Real science versus interpretations of science

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
...@gmail.comjavascript: wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:31 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Ghibbsa, Boy O boy. Reread my post to you. It was completely complementary, only to be met not with appreciation but with snide remarks and accusations. Anyway I officially withdraw

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, You are misunderstanding most of my points here! By standard I just mean any usual analysis that computes the correct answer of the twins' clock time differences when they meet. It seems to me, correct me if I'm

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
observable FACT. As for operational definition, I explained in detail how the theory works on numerous occasions. In fact you criticize me in your first paragraph for doing that too much! Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:28:30 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 5:45 PM, Edgar L

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-06 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, for the comparison of different t values to occur. But it's clear from your comments you are here to flame rather than to understand... Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 6:45:56 PM UTC-5, Quentin Anciaux wrote: 2014-02-06 Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.net javascript:: Quentin, For starters

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, It doesn't give a coordinate transformation, it gives an explanation. Shortly I'll post a longer analysis... Best, Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:01:11 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:05 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, OK

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:37:21 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:40 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, OK, what I don't understand in this clearer example near the end of your post is you say The coordinate time of an event *is* just clock time

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, and Jesse, Yes, I second that! Jesse has very patiently explained his side of the argument in a lot of thoughtful detail which I very much appreciate. It's been an excellent opportunity for me to test and clarify the arguments in support of my position. Edgar On Thursday, February 6,

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Jesse, Again I will post shortly a detailed analysis addressing this and other points you've made. Best, Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:59:53 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, What's wrong

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, What's wrong with conscious experience? Every observation of science is ultimately a conscious experience. Yes, ultimately, but the observations used in physical science used are always of quantitative

Re: Upon reflection

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
Liz, Interesting question, but for more fun make it a pinpoint eye looking in every direction at once from the center toward the mirrored interior surface of sphere. Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:53:18 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: Here's a problem that occurred to me recently - nothing

Re: Upon reflection

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
PS: I suspect you will seem very full of yourself when you do that! :-) All you really have to do is use the standard ray tracing algorithms of computer graphics for the answer Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 9:53:18 PM UTC-5, Liz R wrote: Here's a problem that occurred to me

Re: Block Universes

2014-02-07 Thread Edgar L. Owen
, no matter what their clock times, is the only possible logical conclusion... Edgar On Thursday, February 6, 2014 7:59:53 PM UTC-5, jessem wrote: On Thu, Feb 6, 2014 at 6:46 PM, Edgar L. Owen edga...@att.netjavascript: wrote: Jesse, What's wrong with conscious experience? Every

  1   2   3   4   5   6   7   8   9   >