Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 10 Sep 2012, at 21:58, meekerdb wrote: On 9/10/2012 7:57 AM, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: To use this argument, you need to postulate that the physical universe exists and is describe by a quantum garden of Eden, that is a infinite quantum pattern, and that *you* are that pat

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 9/10/2012 7:57 AM, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:08, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi)

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 10 Sep 2012, at 16:57, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:08, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (sugge

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:08, benjayk wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: >>> Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: > >> Quantum effects beyond indivi

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 08 Sep 2012, at 16:08, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 9/8/2012 10:08 AM, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, t

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> >>> >>> On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: >>> Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, th

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-08, 04:44:44 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:53, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal Any time I use the word God, I always mean IMHO God. I am actually thinki

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

nt - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-07, 16:10:00 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > I was addressing John Clark, who confirmed my feeling that atheists are the >

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

he following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 15:56:55 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be compute

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

re's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 14:06:49 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 05 Sep 2012,

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 07 Sep 2012, at 14:22, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, this doesn't entangle it with other brains since computation

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 9/7/2012 4:10 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal > wrote: > I was addressing John Clark, who confirmed my feeling that atheists are the number one defender of the Christian's conception of God. OK I see the error of my w

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 1:21 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > I was addressing John Clark, who confirmed my feeling that atheists are > the number one defender of the Christian's conception of God. > OK I see the error of my ways and now believe that God exists. Incidentally when I went out to my car

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wed, Sep 5, 2012 at 9:51 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> when God asks Himself the question "Why have I always existed, why >> haven't I always not existed?" what answer in his omniscience does He come >> up with? >> > > > The neoplatonist conception of God does not allow It to ask such a > questi

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 at 1:10 PM, William R. Buckley wrote: While at any moment the tape may be finite, that it can at need grow is the > fundamental notion of infinite. > No, the fundamental notion of the infinite is that you can make a one to one correspondence with a proper subset of itself. >

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

2012-09-06, 15:56:55 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, this doesn't entan

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-06, 14:06:49 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 05 Sep 2012, at 17:34, Roge

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: > >> Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be >> computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, this doesn't >> entangle it with other brains since computation is classical. > > The UD emu

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 06 Sep 2012, at 13:31, benjayk wrote: Quantum effects beyond individual brains (suggested by psi) can't be computed as well: No matter what I compute in my brain, this doesn't entangle it with other brains since computation is classical. The UD emulates all quantum computer, as they do not

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-05, 09:51:40 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: > God created the human race. And w

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

g the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-05, 09:51:40 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: > God created the human race.

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

If the digital substitution is at the density of 10^90 pixels per cubic centimeter, as found in string theory, then digital substitution is essentially analog. Richard On Thu, Sep 6, 2012 at 7:31 AM, benjayk wrote: > > > Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 04 Sep 2012, at 21:47, benjayk wrote: >> >>

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 04 Sep 2012, at 21:47, benjayk wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> Yes, we simulated some systems, but they couldn't perform the same function. >>> >>> A pump does the function of an heart. >> No. A pump just pumps blood. The heart also performs e

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-05, 09:51:40 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wro

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-05, 09:51:40 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: > God created the human race. And wh

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 04 Sep 2012, at 21:47, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: Yes, we simulated some systems, but they couldn't perform the same function. A pump does the function of an heart. No. A pump just pumps blood. The heart also performs endocrine functions, it can react dynamically to the bra

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 04 Sep 2012, at 18:42, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: > God created the human race. And when God asks Himself the question "Why have I always existed, why haven't I always not existed?" what answer in his omniscience does He come up with? The neoplatonis

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ive way, like us. Bruno Quentin wrb From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of John Clark Sent: Tuesday, September 04, 2012 8:59 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intel

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> Yes, we simulated some systems, but they couldn't perform the >> same function. > > A pump does the function of an heart. No. A pump just pumps blood. The heart also performs endocrine functions, it can react dynamically to the brain, it can grow, it can heal, it can b

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

John Clark-12 wrote: > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:11 AM, benjayk > wrote: > >> Showing scientifically that nature is infinite isn't really possible. >> > > Maybe not. In Turing's proof he assumed that machines could not operate > with infinite numbers, so if there is a theory of everything (an

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Anciaux > *Sent:* Tuesday, September 04, 2012 9:10 AM > > *To:* everything-list@googlegroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence* > *** > > ** ** > > ** ** > > 2012/9/4 William R. Buckley > > Seems funny that Turing “…a

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

esday, September 04, 2012 9:10 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence 2012/9/4 William R. Buckley Seems funny that Turing ".assumed that machines could not operate with infinite numbers." given that the tape i

Re: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Tue, Sep 4, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: > God created the human race. > And when God asks Himself the question "Why have I always existed, why haven't I always not existed?" what answer in his omniscience does He come up with? > God is the uncreated infinite intelligence > There was once a pa

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

legroups.com > *Subject:* Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence* > *** > > ** ** > > On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:11 AM, benjayk > wrote: > > ** ** > > > Showing scientifically that nature is infinite isn't really possible.*** > * >

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

8:59 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:11 AM, benjayk wrote: > Showing scientifically that nature is infinite isn't really possible. Maybe not. In Turing's proof he assumed

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 9:11 AM, benjayk wrote: > Showing scientifically that nature is infinite isn't really possible. > Maybe not. In Turing's proof he assumed that machines could not operate with infinite numbers, so if there is a theory of everything (and there might not be) and if you know it

Re: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

nt him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-09-04, 10:20:44 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Roger Clough wro

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Mon, Sep 3, 2012 at 8:39 AM, Roger Clough wrote: From: Roger Clough > God can be thought of as cosmic intelligence And if humans are the only intelligence in the cosmos (and they might be) then the human race is God. > or life itself. If as you say God is life then we know 2 things:

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 03 Sep 2012, at 21:24, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: On 03 Sep 2012, at 15:11, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: If you disagree, please tell me why. I don't disagree. I just point on the fact that you don't give any justification of your belief. If you are correct, th

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 03 Sep 2012, at 15:11, benjayk wrote: > >> >> >> Bruno Marchal wrote: >>> If you disagree, please tell me why. >>> >>> I don't disagree. I just point on the fact that you don't give any >>> justification of your belief. If you are correct, there must be

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 03 Sep 2012, at 15:11, benjayk wrote: Bruno Marchal wrote: If you disagree, please tell me why. I don't disagree. I just point on the fact that you don't give any justification of your belief. If you are correct, there must be something in cells and brains that is not Turing emulable

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> If you disagree, please tell me why. > > I don't disagree. I just point on the fact that you don't give any > justification of your belief. If you are correct, there must be > something in cells and brains that is not Turing emulable, and this is > speculative

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

...@verizon.net 9/3/2012 Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 12:28:15 Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 01 Sep 2012, at 17:52, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: The context is the interpreter; there is no difference between the two: context vs. interpreter. Usually, in computer science, the context is the environment or the inputs. The interpreter is more close to the thinking person bei

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 at 4:58 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > > > God is necessary because He runs the whole show. > And when in His omniscience God asks Himself "How is it that I can run the whole show? How is it that I am able to do anything that I want to do? How do my powers work?", what answer do

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Fri, Aug 31, 2012 Roger Clough wrote: >> what vital ingredient does a neurotransmitter chemical in a brain have >> that a electron in a chip does not have? >> > > ROGER: Life. > Yes life, I was afraid you might say that. It may interest you to know that the Latin word for "Life" is "vita", i

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ction." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 10:27:35 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 31 Aug 2012, at 14:08, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:47:30 AM UTC-4, Bru

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 10:27:35 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 31 Aug 2012, at 14:08, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:44 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Hi Bruno Marchal Sorry for the continual objections, but I'm just trying to point out to you a hole in your thinking large enough to drive a bus through. Ho

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:28 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence William, On 30 Aug 2012, at 22:27, Will

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 31 Aug 2012, at 14:30, Alberto G. Corona wrote: At this moment of knowledge there is something that I thing everybody will agree: 1) the basic laws may be the same for computers and for minds, but in practical terms, the quantitative differences in well designed organization of the br

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 31 Aug 2012, at 14:08, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:47:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: Sense is irreducible. From the first person perspective. Yes. For machine's too. No software can control anything, eve

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 31 Aug 2012, at 14:08, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:47:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 30 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:11:55 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On We

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 05:28:13 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence William, On 30 Aug 2012, at 22:27, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: I rather take issue with the notion that the living cell is

RE: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:44 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Hi Bruno Marchal Sorry for the continual objections, but I'm just trying to point out t

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

no Marchal Sent: Friday, August 31, 2012 2:28 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence William, On 30 Aug 2012, at 22:27, William R. Buckley wrote: Bruno: I rather take issue with the notion that the liv

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Roger Clough wrote: ?> The self is subjective and I can think of?o way that objective machine codes and silicon chips could produce that. That implies that you CAN think of a way t

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

At this moment of knowledge there is something that I thing everybody will agree: 1) the basic laws may be the same for computers and for minds, but in practical terms, the quantitative differences in well designed organization of the brain makes the mind qualitatively different from computers. Th

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 8/31/2012 8:12 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, August 31, 2012 6:08:05 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 31 Aug 2012, at 11:07, Roger Clough wrote: Hi Bruno Marchal The burden of proof, IMHO lies on those who claim that computers are alive and conscious. What evidenc

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Friday, August 31, 2012 6:08:05 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 31 Aug 2012, at 11:07, Roger Clough wrote: > > Hi Bruno Marchal > > The burden of proof, IMHO lies on those who claim that > computers are alive and conscious. What evidence is there for that ? > > > The causal nature

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Friday, August 31, 2012 4:47:30 AM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 30 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:11:55 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

12-08-30, 13:11:51 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form �

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-31, 05:28:13 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelli

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com ] On Behalf Of Bruno Marchal Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 10:12 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

to invent him so that everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-30, 13:11:51 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote:

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 30 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:11:55 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: Cells are indeed controlled by software (as r

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 11:41 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > the point is that name calling is not a logical argument and that it > derails the discussion. > Yes, but I'm surprised you think that's name calling. I'd be insulted if somebody called me a vitalist but I don't see why you should be.

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:39 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > The self is subjective and I can think of no way that objective machine > codes and silicon chips could produce that. > That implies that you CAN think of a way that a bunch of cells in your skull squirting out neurotransmitter chemicals

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form - i.e. DNA). It

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Thursday, August 30, 2012 1:11:55 PM UTC-4, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: >> >> >> >> >> Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form – >

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 29 Aug 2012, at 20:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form – i.e. DNA). It isn't really clear exactly what controls what in a living cell. I can sa

RE: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 9:13 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Hi Richard Ruquist IMHO software alone cannot create life, because life is subjective. So

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

From: everything-list@googlegroups.com [mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Craig Weinberg Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2012 8:50 AM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Wednesday, August 29

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Vitalism would be that there are some substances which are used by biological organisms and others that are not. There would be no bump from cell to animal to human being, or even from molecule to cell - vitalism would be that living cells are composed of life-giving molecules which are fundamenta

Re: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-29, 16:27:17 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence What is DNA if not software? On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 1:07 PM, Roge

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

@googlegroups.com Cc: johnkcl...@gmail.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 3:54:49 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > do not think that accusations of vitalism add anything to

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 4:43:38 PM UTC-4, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 8/29/2012 4:10 PM, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test to imply that >> machines could think, only

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 3:54:49 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > do not think that accusations of vitalism add anything to the issue. >> It's really nothing but an ad hominem attack. >> > > It's not ad hominem if its true. > No, it doesn'

Re: RE: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

so everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: William R. Buckley Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-29, 13:22:31 Subject: RE: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Roger: It is my contention, quite to the dislike of biologists

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-29, 15:54:47 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Tue, Aug 28, 2012? Craig Weinberg wrote: > do not think that accusations of vitalism add anything to the issue. It's > really nothing but a

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

- Receiving the following content - From: John Clark Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-29, 13:42:26 Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >But computers can only do what their prog

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On 8/29/2012 4:10 PM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: > It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test to imply that machines could think, only that the closest we could come would be to construct mac

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

here's no God, we'd have to invent him so > everything could function." > > - Receiving the following content - > *From:* Richard Ruquist > *Receiver:* everything-list > *Time:* 2012-08-29, 07:37:02 > *Subject:* Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO can

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 8:07 AM, Roger Clough wrote: > If a computer could compute new knowledge, how would you know whether it > is new or not, or even what it means ? This is called the translation > problem. > If a person could create new knowledge, how would you know whether it is new or no

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 7:21 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test to imply that > machines could think, only that the closest we could come would be to > construct machines that would be good at playing The Imitation Game. > No you are entirely inc

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 Craig Weinberg wrote: > do not think that accusations of vitalism add anything to the issue. It's > really nothing but an ad hominem attack. > It's not ad hominem if its true. We can't be talking about anything except vitalism and as one of the most enthusiastic apologists

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wednesday, August 29, 2012 1:22:38 PM UTC-4, William R. Buckley wrote: > > > > > Cells are indeed controlled by software (as represented in wetware form – > i.e. DNA). > It isn't really clear exactly what controls what in a living cell. I can say that cars are controlled by traffic signals

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 8:58 AM, Roger Clough wrote: >But computers can only do what their programs/hardware tell them to do. > If computers only did what their programers told them to do their would be absolutely no point in building computers because they would know what the machines would en

RE: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

[mailto:everything-list@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Roger Clough Sent: Wednesday, August 29, 2012 10:07 AM To: everything-list Subject: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Hi Richard Ruquist Pre-ordained is a religious position And we aren't controlled by sof

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

tent - From: Richard Ruquist Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-29, 07:37:02 Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Roger, Do you think that humans do not function in accord with pre-ordained hardware and software? Richard On Wed, Aug 29, 2012

Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-28, 09:35:36 Subject: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:06 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Stathis Papaioannou > > You are talking about a robot, not a human. > At the very least, ther

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

;If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Craig Weinberg Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-28, 17:08:05 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence It's in

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

intended by the software programmer. > > > BRUNO: You hope. > > > Bruno > > > > > > > > > Roger Clough, rclo...@verizon.net <+rclo...@verizon.net> > 8/28/2012 > Leibniz would say, "If there's no God, we'd have to invent him so >

Re: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

apaioannou Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-28, 09:39:09 Subject: Re: Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On Tue, Aug 28, 2012 at 11:11 PM, Roger Clough wrote: > Hi Stathis Papaioannou > > Yes, hardware and software cannot feel anything bec

Re: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

ere's no God, we'd have to invent him so everything could function." - Receiving the following content - From: Bruno Marchal Receiver: everything-list Time: 2012-08-27, 09:52:32 Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence On 27 Aug 20

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

niverse as gauge against some other part of the > > universe. This is abject subjectivity. > > > > wrb > > > > > > > > > > *From:* everyth...@googlegroups.com [mailto: > everyth...@googlegroups.com ] *On Behalf Of *Craig Weinberg >

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

On Wed, Aug 29, 2012 at 9:21 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Stathis, > > Yes you've got it. It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test > to imply that machines could think, only that the closest we could come > would be to construct machines that would be good at playing 'The Imitation

RE: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Sent: Tuesday, August 28, 2012 4:22 PM To: everything-list@googlegroups.com Subject: Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence Stathis, Yes you've got it. It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test to imply that machines could think, only that the

Re: Two reasons why computers IMHO cannot exhibit intelligence

Stathis, Yes you've got it. It's worth mentioning that Turing did not intend his test to imply that machines could think, only that the closest we could come would be to construct machines that would be good at playing 'The Imitation Game '

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