Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:15 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 1/5/2019 4:56 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 12:13:16 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/5/2019 1:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> The relation is provided by the metric. If you choose

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/5/2019 4:56 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 12:13:16 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 1/5/2019 1:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: The relation is provided by the metric.  If you choose different coordinate systems (e.g. cylindrical or

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, January 6, 2019 at 12:13:16 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/5/2019 1:28 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > The relation is provided by the metric. If you choose different >> coordinate systems (e.g. cylindrical or spherical or whatever) then there >> is different metric tensor.

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/5/2019 1:28 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: The relation is provided by the metric.  If you choose different coordinate systems (e.g. cylindrical or spherical or whatever) then there is different metric tensor.  So the integral along the path of g_ab dx^a dx^b is the

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 8:36:34 PM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/5/2019 12:50 AM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:49:43 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> >> >> On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *Still a little murky. Does coordinate

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/5/2019 12:50 AM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:49:43 AM UTC, Brent wrote: On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: *Still a little murky. Does coordinate time ever differ from proper time? TIA, AG *

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 7:50 PM wrote: > On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:49:43 AM UTC, Brent wrote: >> >> On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> *Still a little murky. Does coordinate time ever differ from proper time? >> TIA, AG * >> >> >> Of course. That's like asking does

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 6:49:43 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > *Still a little murky. Does coordinate time ever differ from proper time? > TIA, AG * > > > Of course. That's like asking does change in longitude ever differ from >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/4/2019 9:20 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: *Still a little murky. Does coordinate time ever differ from proper time? TIA, AG * Of course.  That's like asking does change in longitude ever differ from distance sailed. Brent *Suppose I imagine a path in

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, January 5, 2019 at 3:23:54 AM UTC, Brent wrote: > > > > On 1/4/2019 6:25 PM, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 2:08:39 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:03 PM wrote: >> >>> On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/4/2019 6:25 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 2:08:39 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:03 PM > wrote: On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Friday, January 4, 2019 at 2:08:39 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:03 PM > wrote: > >> On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >>> >>> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark wrote: >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote:

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

I just happened to see this response on Quora today: = How does one resolve the twin paradox in a toroidal universe? Viktor T. Toth

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sat, Jan 5, 2019 at 1:41 AM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:08 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > *> In JC's formula: d^2 = r^2 - t^2* [...] >> > > That's not my formula, I used d^2 = r^2 - (ct)^2 , that way the units > always come out right. > I did make it clear that I use

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 3:15 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > *You said t was the proper time for me to take the trip. * > Yes. > > *But the proper time is what a clock measures * > Yes, > > *and so it depends on the path you took in making the trip. * > Yes. And that is exactly why proper time

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/4/2019 9:43 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 5:59 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: >>If I travel from event A to event B and use the formula x^2 + y^2 + z^2 -(ct)^2 /> You can only travel between A and B if they are timelike, in

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 5:59 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >>If I travel from event A to event B and use the formula x^2 + y^2 + z^2 >> -(ct)^2 > > > * > You can only travel between A and B if they are timelike, in which > case your formula will yield an negative squared distance.* > So what? The

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 9:08 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: *> In JC's formula: d^2 = r^2 - t^2* [...] > That's not my formula, I used d^2 = r^2 - (ct)^2 , that way the units always come out right. John K Clark > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/3/2019 6:03 PM, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: So learn from this! The 't' in your formula above is the coordinate time, not the proper time. Learn the difference! The proper time is defined as the time kept by a perfect clock travelling on a geodesic. And a geodesic

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 1:03 PM wrote: > On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: >> >> On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark wrote: >> >>> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >>> >>> *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thursday, January 3, 2019 at 8:58:14 AM UTC, Bruce wrote: > > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark > wrote: > >> On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >> *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to New >>> York and their odometers

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/3/2019 12:05 PM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:58 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: /> The 't' in your formula above is the coordinate time, not the proper time. / What the hell are you talking about? If I travel from event A to event B and

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Jan 4, 2019 at 7:06 AM John Clark wrote: > On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:58 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > > >> *> The 't' in your formula above is the coordinate time, not the proper >> time. * >> > > What the hell are you talking about? If I travel from event A to event B > and use the

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 3:58 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > *> The 't' in your formula above is the coordinate time, not the proper > time. * > What the hell are you talking about? If I travel from event A to event B and use the formula x^2 + y^2 + z^2 -(ct)^2 where x,y,and z are the differences in

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 12:00 PM John Clark wrote: > On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to New >> York and their odometers registered different distances then one of the >> odometers must have measured miles

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Wed, Jan 2, 2019 at 5:50 PM Brent Meeker wrote: *> That's like saying if two people drove different cars from L.A. to New > York and their odometers registered different distances then one of the > odometers must have measured miles differently than the other...ignoring > the fact that they

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/2/2019 8:28 AM, John Clark wrote: On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:09 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: /> And for two spacelike events (as I specified) h^2 < 0  so you have made the interval along a world line, the proper time, imaginary. / The spacetime

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Tue, Jan 1, 2019 at 7:09 PM Brent Meeker wrote: * > And for two spacelike events (as I specified) h^2 < 0 so you have made > the interval along a world line, the proper time, imaginary. * > The spacetime distance d is *not* the proper time, the spacetime distance is an invariant, it's the

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 1/1/2019 9:04 AM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 11:22 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: >> I hope you know the path yielding the longest proper time duration is not the same as having the longest distance through spacetime as time is

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 11:22 PM Brent Meeker wrote: >> I hope you know the path yielding the longest proper time duration is >> not the same as having the longest distance through spacetime as time is >> just one dimension and spacetime involves 4. > > > * > Proper time is the distance thru

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/31/2018 7:17 PM, John Clark wrote: On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 2:46 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > /But you do know that the straightest path between events in Minkowski spacetime / // You do know don't you that Minkowski spaceis non-Euclidean because 

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 31, 2018 at 2:46 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > *But you do know that the straightest path between events in Minkowski > spacetime * > You do know don't you that Minkowski space is non-Euclidean because it treats time differently than the other 3 dimensions but it is not curved so it is

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/31/2018 9:14 AM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 6:37 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: >>> /It's an example of a geodesic being the longest path (in interval) between two events in 4-space./ >> I think you meant shortest

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 29 Dec 2018, at 21:28, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/29/2018 3:54 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Dec 2018, at 20:45, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/24/2018 5:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:23,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/29/2018 3:04 PM, John Clark wrote: On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:10 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > /It's an example of a geodesic being the longest path (in interval) between two events in 4-space. / I think you meant shortest path, there is no

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 4:10 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > *It's an example of a geodesic being the longest path (in interval) > between two events in 4-space.* > I think you meant shortest path, there is no unique longest path it can be made as long as you like. John K Clark -- You received

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/29/2018 11:26 AM, John Clark wrote: Richard Feynman had something to say about clocks and rickets in his book Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman, he posed this puzzle to a fellow physicist: "Y/ou blast off in a rocket which has a clock on board, and there's a clock on the ground. The

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/29/2018 3:54 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Dec 2018, at 20:45, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/24/2018 5:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:23, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/23/2018 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

Richard Feynman had something to say about clocks and rickets in his book Surely you're joking Mr. Feynman, he posed this puzzle to a fellow physicist: "Y*ou blast off in a rocket which has a clock on board, and there's a clock on the ground. The idea is that you have to be back when the clock on

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 29, 2018 at 6:13:33 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 23 Dec 2018, at 21:28, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > If some higher-order Gödelian arithmetical process is involved in some > sense in the making of consciousness, then it's matter that is doing it. > > > > I

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 23 Dec 2018, at 21:28, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 11:18:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 19:05, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Dec

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 25 Dec 2018, at 00:54, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 1:16:36 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:15, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:37:21 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 22

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 20:45, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/24/2018 5:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:23, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/23/2018 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:08,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sat, Dec 29, 2018 at 9:50 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:09 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> From: Jason Resch >> >> >> Clock desycnhronization is a different phenomenon and has a different >> cause and explanation than time dilation. >> >> Because of the relativity of

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:09 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > > Clock desycnhronization is a different phenomenon and has a different > cause and explanation than time dilation. > > Because of the relativity of simultaneity in SR, clock synchronization is > not a global

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> Clock desycnhronization is a different phenomenon and has a different cause and explanation than time dilation. Because of the relativity of simultaneity in SR, clock synchronization is not a global phenomenon -- it depends on the way in

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 28, 2018 at 4:03 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > From: Jason Resch > > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:24 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett >>> wrote: >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

From: *Jason Resch* mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:24 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch mailto:jasonre...@gmail.com>> wrote: On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 5:54:41 PM UTC-6, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 1:16:36 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> >>> >>> The SE remains always correct. It is only if you make the other >>> “universe" disappearing that the SE is not correct. >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Monday, December 24, 2018 at 1:16:36 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:15, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:37:21 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 22 Dec 2018, at 03:29, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:24 PM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett >> wrote: >> >>> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch >>> wrote: >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Tue, Dec 25, 2018 at 4:59 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker >>> wrote: >>> On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/24/2018 5:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:23, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/23/2018 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:08, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:30 AM Bruce Kellett wrote: > On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > >> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >>> > >>> > How can this be? The rocket is a rigid structure, the front and

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 01:45, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: >> >> The particles are (local) Lorentz invariants. But how do Lorentz >> transformations show up in the computations (of the Ud?)? > > This is

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:23, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/23/2018 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:08, Brent Meeker >> > wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ... With

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:15, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:37:21 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 22 Dec 2018, at 03:29, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> On Fri,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 24 Dec 2018, at 00:32, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 4:45:35 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 22 Dec 2018, at 18:59, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:18:33 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 20 Dec

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 4:03 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > >> > How can this be? The rocket is a rigid structure, the front and rear >> > clocks accelerate at the same rate. >> >> First, there

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:06 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > How can this be? The rocket is a rigid structure, the front and rear > > clocks accelerate at the same rate. > > First, there are no rigid objects in relativity theory. Otherwise they >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/23/2018 7:17 PM, Jason Resch wrote: How can this be? The rocket is a rigid structure, the front and rear clocks accelerate at the same rate. First, there are no rigid objects in relativity theory.  Otherwise they could be used for  FTL signaling.  Second, there is no simultaneity

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 10:44 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/23/2018 4:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> >> The particles are (local) Lorentz invariants. But how do Lorentz >> transformations show up in the computations (of the

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/23/2018 4:45 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bruno Marchal > wrote: The particles are (local) Lorentz invariants. But how do Lorentz transformations show up in the computations (of the Ud?)? This is explained in Vic

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 2:18 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 8:20 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:06 PM Jason Resch >> wrote: >> >>> On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 7:51 PM Brent Meeker >>> wrote: >>> That's what I thought you wanted to conclude.

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 07:45:54PM -0500, Jason Resch wrote: > > This is explained in Vic Stenger’s book, in a way which shows that physics > is already in a large part derivable from simple invariance principles. > > > > Hi Bruno, > > Do you recall which of his books this is? (

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Mon, Dec 24, 2018 at 12:06 PM Jason Resch wrote: > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 7:51 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> That's what I thought you wanted to conclude. But it doesn't follow. >> The specious present is just a mathematical construct and has no physical >> significance. It says no more

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 7:51 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/23/2018 4:04 AM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Sunday, December 23, 2018, Brent Meeker wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/22/2018 4:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/23/2018 4:04 AM, Jason Resch wrote: On Sunday, December 23, 2018, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/22/2018 4:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On 12/21/2018

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 1:21 PM Bruno Marchal wrote: > > The particles are (local) Lorentz invariants. But how do Lorentz > transformations show up in the computations (of the Ud?)? > > > This is explained in Vic Stenger’s book, in a way which shows that physics > is already in a large part

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 4:45:35 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2018, at 18:59, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:18:33 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 16:35, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/23/2018 10:21 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:08, Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ... With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka universal machines, and indeed physics has to

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 5:37:21 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2018, at 03:29, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, December 22,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 11:18:53 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 19:05, Philip Thrift > > wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 01:07, Philip Thrift wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 10:45:35 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 22 Dec 2018, at 18:59, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:18:33 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 20 Dec 2018, at 16:35, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: >> >> >> >> On

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:20, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 9:08 AM Brent Meeker > wrote: > On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> ... >> >> With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka universal >> machines,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:20, Bruce Kellett wrote: > > On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 9:08 AM Brent Meeker > wrote: > On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> ... >> >> With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka universal >> machines,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 23:08, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> ... >> >> With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka universal >> machines, and indeed physics has to be independent of the initial theory >>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 22:36, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > > On 12/22/2018 1:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >>> On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett >> > wrote: >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch >> > wrote: >>> On

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 13:54, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 3:53:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 05:44, Jason Resch > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett > > wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 13:40, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 3:42:04 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett > >> wrote: >> >> >> The universe we see is the only one for which we have any concrete evidence, >> and that

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 03:29, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM > wrote: > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 19:05, Philip Thrift wrote: > > > > On Friday, December 21, 2018 at 11:12:18 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > >> On 21 Dec 2018, at 01:07, Philip Thrift > >> wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 3:40:53 PM UTC-6, Bruce wrote: >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 16:13, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:56 AM Terren Suydam > wrote: > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:35 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > We have no evidence nor reason to presume that we should

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 21 Dec 2018, at 15:55, Terren Suydam wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 11:35 PM Jason Resch > wrote: > We have no evidence nor reason to presume that we should be in a position to > see everything that exists. In fact, we already know that not to be

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 22 Dec 2018, at 18:59, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:18:33 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 16:35, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:46:06 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 19 Dec

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018, Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/22/2018 4:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/21/2018 5:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker >> wrote: >> >>> >>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/22/2018 4:29 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: On 12/21/2018 5:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker mailto:meeke...@verizon.net>> wrote: On

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 12:29:45 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/21/2018 5:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker > > wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 11:29 AM Jason Resch wrote: > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> That's words. How shall they determine whether event X in distant galaxy >> Y is simultaneous with their clock reading Z? Is their "direction through >> spacetime" constant

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sunday, December 23, 2018 at 12:27:23 AM UTC, Jason wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 9:29 PM > wrote: > >> >> >> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM wrote: >>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 10:01 PM Brent Meeker wrote: > > > On 12/21/2018 5:43 PM, Jason Resch wrote: > > > > On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 12:46 PM Brent Meeker > wrote: > >> >> >> On 12/20/2018 9:09 PM, Jason Resch wrote: >> > I am not advocating any global reference frame, just mentioning that >> >

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 9:29 PM wrote: > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 11:40 AM John

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Sun, Dec 23, 2018 at 9:08 AM Brent Meeker wrote: > On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > ... > > With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka > universal machines, and indeed physics has to be independent of the initial > theory (phi_independent, or “machine

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/21/2018 10:43 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: ... With Mechanism, physics has to be the same for all “observers” aka universal machines, and indeed physics has to be independent of the initial theory (phi_independent, or “machine independent” in the sense of theoretical computer scientist

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On 12/22/2018 1:42 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett > wrote: On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:03 PM Jason Resch > wrote: On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:05 PM Bruce Kellett mailto:bhkellet...@gmail.com>>

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 12:18:33 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 20 Dec 2018, at 16:35, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:46:06 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 16:52, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday,

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 3:53:36 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 05:44, Jason Resch > > wrote: > > > > On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 8:28 PM Bruce Kellett > wrote: > >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 1:07 PM Jason Resch > > wrote: >> >>> On Thu, Dec 20, 2018 at 7:11 PM

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 3:42:04 AM UTC-6, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 21 Dec 2018, at 03:22, Bruce Kellett > > wrote: > > > The universe we see is the only one for which we have any concrete > evidence, and that evidence is indubitable. > > > That is of course a strong evidence for

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

> On 20 Dec 2018, at 16:35, agrayson2...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Thursday, December 20, 2018 at 12:46:06 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 19 Dec 2018, at 16:52, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Wednesday, December 19, 2018 at 12:01:07 PM UTC, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > On 18

Re: What is more primary than numbers?

On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:29:54 AM UTC, agrays...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 2:03:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote: >> >> >> >> On Fri, Dec 21, 2018 at 8:50 PM wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> On Saturday, December 22, 2018 at 1:42:06 AM UTC, Jason wrote:

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