Re: [Biofuel] Moving to the land was The Saudi oil bombshell
I love Dexter's. They are a great little triple purpose breed, and the fact they do better on tough feed than on concentrates is fantastic.I plan to have several when I get my land. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 28, 2005 6:20 Subject: [Biofuel] Moving to the land was The Saudi oil bombshell Greetings, First I would like to say good luck on your new venture. Have you read the entire small farms library at JTF? It is a great place to start. Are you aware of just how much land 15 hectares is? To farm that much land, you are going to need some serious equipment. That is, if you plan on doing it sustainably. You would be running thousands of chickens and hundreds of pigs in order to create enough manure to bring back depleted land. The real beauty of sustainable farming is how little land you need to raise enough food for several families. I do belive that the quoted figures are 1 hectare for a family of 6, and that includes income. Assuming that you understand the above, then I would suggest that you look into breeds. Many of the old endangered breeds are best for sustainable farming. For example: Tamworth pigs. These are a smaller bacon pig, not a lard pig. They do not survive factory farming and being enclosed and are therefore endangered, but they are a fabulous pasture pig. They live in the pasture, year round in snowy areas and in the heat. And they are no more expensive than good breeding stock of any other breed. The trick is to know what the challenges of your area are and to pick stock that can thrive where you are. Then, you don't have all the expensive medicines and upkeep that factory farmers put up with. The other thing to look at is what is your feed going to? While I know that you don't want to do cattle, they are the easiest explanation of what I mean. When comparing live weight to dressed weight, if you can find animals that can hit 60% of the live weight in dressed weight, then your feed has been well used. Dexter is an excellent example of this kind of cattle. But if your dressed weight is only 40%, then your feed has gone to growing something that is in the waste stream and this is not profitable. The most important thing, unfortunately is regulations. How do you get to market with your animals? What costs of processing do you have to pay? What will the government let you do? Bright Blessings, Kim At 06:53 AM 7/28/2005, you wrote: Hi All, It looks like I've finally convinced the wife to make the investment in some land and do some sustainable farming. I've been practicing in my garden many years and would like to begin with pigs and chickens since everyone else seems to be raising cattle and sheep. I live in Uruguay. There are quite a few small holdings (7 to 25 heactares) available at prices I can afford. I am doing vermiculture and have a fair understanding of soils but I've never raised animals other than pets. Do I purchase good land that's arable or marginal land and improve it with the pigs and chickens? What sort of water flows, either underground or surface, will I require? How many pigs and chickens can I raise sustainably on say 15 hectares. I want to be self sufficient or at least as much as possible. I want to be low tech but profitable. Any suggestions out there would be appreciated. Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] blackout 8-14-2003, some comments
I agree. The problem is, anyone with two or more brain cells, and is willing to do some serious thinking can cause problems. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 14:32 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] blackout 8-14-2003, some comments Hi Brian; Hey JoeFirst thing I thought of after reading your story about the power grid being hit by bad guys is dont give them any ideas. Yeah I went through those thoughts myself in October 2001 when all the radio stations were asking callers to chime in on how we should protect ourselves. I decided not to call in for that reason but I contacted one of the local radio announcers and told him I had several thoughts about our vulnerability but did not want to air them. I thought that it was good to brainstorm and get ideas in to the authorities but just did not want to do it in an open forum that way. So he convinced me to email him some thoughts and he would pass them on to the appropriate channels. The next day there was a black car parked out on my street watching my movements for about a week! This pissed me off to no end so one day I left as usual to walk to work in the morning but then circled back out of sight and jumped my neighbour's fence, snuck up to the car via the driver's blind spot and stood there by his door. Imagine his surprise when he finally noticed me standing there looking over his shoulder observing his radios and note taking! LMAO. With goons like these 'protecting' us god help us! Then I had another naïve thought (maybe inane would be a better word), what do these terrorists want from us? Lets find out and give it to them! But then I came to my senses and remembered, they want us dead. Whoops, maybe we shouldnt give it to them after all. I really don't think so. I think they want to get our attention. I think they want us to change and force our governments and businesses to change the way they operate around the world. I think they want things to be a little more balanced and if they were that way they wouldn't bother with all this. They wouldn't have a need to. I'm sure they don't want to be suicidal anymore than any of us would. In the back of my mind I had the notion that by researching biofuels and perhaps implementing some sort of alternative fuel strategy I would be putting my family into a group of people that do not want to invade countries for their energy and thus making me somehow better than the rest. Hmmm, it was a nice thought but even with a more sustainable lifestyle we will not appease fanatics. I really shudder when I hear people talk that way. The definition of fanaticism is really something to ponder. Would you be called a fanatic if you had to resort to extreme measures to protect your loved ones from a bully down the street for instance? What if you had no other recourse? I really detest the methods they employ obviously but they don't have much in the way of a voice or bargaining chip otherwise now do they? They will probably want me dead anyway and the descendants of these crazy killers will no doubt be even more angry having lost loved ones. You are here on this list but your language indicates that you haven't given a lot of consideration to the propaganda that you have been fed and at least in part obviously digested. It goes on and on. Is the USA to stay in Iraq until we can no longer afford to be there? What happens when these liberators of freedom in Iraq find that Iraqi oil fields have peaked?It goes on until it ends. When all the parties involved take responsibility for thier actions and when everyone has an equal voice and is given equal consideration at the bargaining table there will be a chance for peace at least. Questions questions. I am frightened about the future we have created for our children.Me too man. Me too.Joe ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The Greatest Small Scale Anhydrous Discovery
I only know of a few states ( less than a dozen ) with reg's about transporting WVO, perhaps you can supply a full list. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 03, 2005 20:07 Subject: [Biofuel] The Greatest Small Scale Anhydrous Discovery SNIP At this moment it is currently against the law to transport waste cooking oil in most states and they ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen energy efficiencies
Still, thousands of people handle it on a daily basis, with no extra special effort and no problems. About the only problems I hear about is when methanol is mistaken for ethanol. IIRC I read of 17 fatalities and 55 non-fatal cases in 2002, involving methanol, which is better than ethanol's record of 693 deaths, directly from ethanol poisoning (not to mention all the indirect deaths and injury's from drunk driving) in 2003. OSHA Exposure limits: Methanol 200 ppm Gasoline 300 ppm Benzene ( as a component of gasoline ) 1 ppm Toluene ( as above ) 200 ppm Xylene ( as above ) 100 ppm As can be seen, methanol is about as safe as gasoline, and in some cases, muchsafer than some of the components that make up gasoline. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 04, 2005 8:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen energy efficiencies Hi All, I don't think ethanol will be a dinosaur in 20 years but would appreciate why you think so if it is other than yields per hectare. Methanol has the capacity to produce some nasty tailpipe emmission (as does ethanol but less so) and is far more toxic to humans and animals than ethanol. Another component of sustainability is safety. I would not wish to see methanol filling stations. Most people have no concept how nasty it is. Yes, it can be handled safely by those who understand the dangers but most folks don't have that knowledge. Tom Irwin From: Appal Energy [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 04 Aug 2005 10:35:58 -0300Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cornell on ethanol, biodiesel, hydrogen energy efficienciesStill, all rather sad how ethanol has become the predominate alternative fuel of choice for gasoline applications when methanol yields far higher outputs per acre with far fewer inputs.At 75% of the energy content as ethanol, the energy yield per acre (100 gallons per ton of dry biomass) outstrips corn derived ethanol, even on a good day. The real crux of the matter would be to choose crops of high seasonal yield, inclusive of those suitable for pre- and post plantings of other crops in the same annular cycle.My book makes ethanol a dinosaur within 20 years.Todd SwearingenKeith Addison wrote: Hello Bob, Andrew Normally I'd agree with you Bob, but not in Pimentel's case, that time was long ago, and now Andrew's response is not inappropriate. Pimentel merits little better than scorn and derision Andrew, I know you said it in jest, but the unfortunate effect of your sarcasm regarding David Pimentel, one of the nations' outstanding scientists, is to support the ignorant critics of good science who argue that, "if I believe in a proposition, then anyone who presents evidence that contradicts my belief is a malicious fool and not to be believed". It is true that a few pseudoscientists acting as industry shills will (for a fee) produce a "scientific study" supporting any industry-desired conclusion, but your implication that Pimentel is such an Exxon shill is blatant slander, and I am ashamed to see it on the Biofuels site. I assume that you wish ethanol's EROEI (energy return over energy input) to be positive, thus making it a useful energy source as we approach the end of fossil fuels. So do I - and so would lots of other folks. I'm sure also that David Pimentel shares that wish. The difference between you and Pimentel is that as a scientist, he says, "It's a great idea and I hope it's true, but what if it isn't? So let's run the numbers and seek the truth of the matter. If it turns out the EROEI is negative, we would be commiting a cruel and expensive hoax on the nation to propose ethanol as an energy solution." Not so, sad to say. Pimentel has long been aware that the data he uses is outdated and wrong, but he keeps using it anyway. Implying that he's an Exxon-et al shill is not blatant slander, the question has to be asked why he continues doing this, and asked of his publishers too. This is peer review? I think not. It certainly is not science. It's propaganda. I am as disappointed as you must be in his analysis showing a negative EROEI. And I look forward to additional valid studies testing and challenging his conclusion. Those have been to hand for a long time, more and more of them, debunking every aspect of Pimentel's claims. Pimentel takes no notice, neither do his publishers. But to lampoon his work because you don't like the color of - was it his socks? - is not a worthy act on your part. Well, I don't know, I suppose we can take his socks about as seriously as the rest of him.
[Biofuel] Fw: [HDR] August 06, 2005 -- date of risk?
Just for consideration. http://weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/894mnyyl.aspGreg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Fw: [HDR] August 06, 2005 -- date of risk?
I see it more as some Japan's of leaders wanted to surrender on their terms, which kept those that started the war in power, and were willing to fight to the last man ( including the civilians ) to stay in power, we know what happened in Okinawa was just a precursor of what the invasion of Japan would have been like. The bombs convinced them otherwise. From the decoded messages the higher up, knew that we were facing a real bad invasion, and few wanted to invade.So what was it going to be, 1)Leave the militant government that started the war in place. 2)A bad invasion, with millions of casualties.( an estimated 1 million from the allies alone ) 3)Wipe out two cities. #1 was totaly unacceptable.Treaty agreements between the Allies dictated that unconditional surrender was the only type of surrender that was going to be accepted. #2 was in some cases worst than #1, but would have achieved. #3 while distasteful, did hold down the casualties to a under 300,000. As it ended up 2 cities were totaly trashed, while if Japan was invaded, then I would bet that most cities would have ended up like Hiroshima and Nagasaki, through conventional means. I know that everyone would have been allot happier had Japan surrendered unconditionally allot sooner. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 11:08 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Fw: [HDR] August 06, 2005 -- date of risk? The critics share three fundamental premises. The first is that Japan's situation in 1945 was catastrophically hopeless. The second is that Japan's leaders recognized that fact and were seeking to surrender in the summer of 1945. The third is that thanks to decoded Japanese diplomatic messages, American leaders knew that Japan was about to surrender when they unleashed needless nuclear devastation. Strange place to find it, I doubt it's close to Mr Kristol's heart, nor to Mr Murdoch's, but it's correct nonetheless. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima
I don't think that you are looking at the picture in the same light as the planners were. Yes, Omaha beach was bad.But lets look at more realistic numbers that planners from the invasion were looking at: In 2 months 38,000 Americans wounded, 12,000 killed or missing, more than 107,000 enemy killed, and perhaps 100,000 civilians perished, in the invasion of a tiny little island called Okinawa.( That is more causalities than Hiroshima and Nagasaki combined - an estimated 103,000 ) Over 26,000 Allied causalities and over 21,800 Japanese causalities for an island less than 8 sq miles in size, in little over 1 month.The name of that island - Iwo Jima. It was with these casualty numbers, that the planners were figuring 1,000,000 from the off shore bombardment to the final surrender. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, August 06, 2005 14:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] The myths of Hiroshima look, this whole thing about an invasion of japan costing a million american lives is utterly ridiculous. that would be four times the american combat deaths in the entire war. the landing at omaha beach is usually described as one of the most horrifically deadly battlefield environments of the conflict, because of the difficult terrain and the very dense defenses. roughly a thousand american soldiers were killed, just shy of 3% of the forces that landed there which is pretty high. if you were to assume similarly difficult conditions for an invasioin of japan (which is by no means a given), more than 30 million troops would have to be involved. . . . -chris b. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms
Please, I have not heard of thisuse of MoS2before. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Gotberg To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 7:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] ethanol from wood using mushrooms I was reading just yesterday about using white rot fungus in the form of mushrooms of the common button type as selective for lignin and leaving the cellulose and hemicellulose alone as part of a pulping scheme. The cellulose and maybe the hemicellulose can then be fermented to ethanol. (Another approach is using a MoS2 catalyst.) It was a PhD thesis, but I dont have it with me. I can look it up if interested. Ken ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] EU clears Monsanto biotech corn for animal feed
The European Union head office on Monday cleared a form of genetically modified corn made by American biotechnology company Monsanto Co. for use in animal feed. http://www.kticam.com/news/agricultural/index.cfm?id=11698 Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Worst terror attacks in history
I perceive it as a simple request. Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 12:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Hiroshima and Nagasaki: Worst terror attacks in history As far as God shed his grace, I've often wondered if those words represent an invocation, an iteration of fact, or simply an excuse. (After all, who are WE to tell God to do anything?) But the claim rings false, as is evidenced by our collective behavior. We are no better than the great nations that preceded us, though we often like to think ourselves as qualitatively superior. (So did the Brits, so did the Romans, so did the Helenes, and so forth . . . ) ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Solar power is latest innovation at N.J. farms
Move over, Jersey tomatoes. Some farmers are producing a new crop: energy. http://www.kticam.com/news/agricultural/index.cfm?id=11695 Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Turkeys
Most domesticated type turkey's are mentally challenged. OTOH, wild type turkeys, while skinny in comparison are very intelligent, and as a group they will make a big dent in the local snake population ( even poisonous snakes ). Greg H. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 08, 2005 18:54 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Turkeys Greetings, Depending on the breed, turkeys can be really stupid. They will starve to death standing in a pile of food. Extremely careful research is called for or you will be hand feeding your babies every couple of hours. It is not fun. Muscovy ducks are fun and taste real good. Bright Blessings, Kim At 07:46 PM 8/8/2005, you wrote: Hi All, Aside from the ongoing debate, here is a practical question. Since turkeys, (the edible kind) are relatively rare where I live, I thought they might be a more profitable bird to raise than chickens. I still plan on raising muscovy ducks since they seem relatively low maintenence. How does raising turkeys differ from raising chickens? As a larger bird are they more hardy? Do they eat the same feed? Still learning, Tom Irwin ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Propane - ABio fuel?
Malcolm, Sorry for taking so long to get back to you, I missed your post. I have done some thinking and reading about the CO2 and H2S issues in BioMethane. If the BioMethane is bubbled through lime water, the CO2 will combine with the Calcium in lime water, to make CaCO3 ( calcium carbonate or chalk ).This method will also take care of a little of the H2S ( see below ). The H2S is a little trickier, you want to remove the Sulfur, but, leave the Hydrogen, as it would add BTU's to your final product. This can be done a couple of ways depending on what you want as a byproduct. The first way is to bring it in contact with lime/limestone where the Sulfur reacts with the calcium, to form gypsum and the hydrogen goes on it's merry way. The second way, is to bring it into contact with iron filings, and the sulfur reacts with the iron to form iron pyrite ( iron sulfate ). A problem with iron pyrite, is one of disposal.It can be used, in small amounts to neutralize alkaline soils.The iron can also be recharged, by exposing to air, but, that releases the sulfur into the air ( IIRC as sulfur trioxide ), but, with a large amount exposure to the air has to be done slowly or an exothermic reaction occurs ( for the uninformed, this means that it might burst into flame ). I don't have the chemistry know-how to say if you could use the chalk to neutralize the iron sulfate, and what the results might be, but, it might be possible.Perhaps someone else on the list knows. I hope this helps. Greg H. - Original Message - From: malcolm maclure [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, July 21, 2005 15:53 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Propane - ABio fuel? Hi Greg, all It's interesting you mention: Bio Methane generally has to be scrubbed of CO2 and H2S, before it is useable in any great amount, but, once the H2S and CO2 have been removed, Bio Methane can be used just like NG (at lower pressure unless you use a compressor to raise the pressure). I've started gathering info on Biogas, not for where we are now but for our planned future move, but I've not seen anything regarding scrubbing the gas. I had wondered about the need for it. I presume the scrubbing would be done using absorbent chemicals (trying really hard to remember my inorganic chemistry but it seems too long ago now!!! Lol) I'd like to know if there are any innovative solutions to the problem out there. Would water vapour in the gas cause problems should it also be removed? Or is all this not needed when using it as a single domestic supply? I'd be interested in any comments. Best regards to all Malcolm -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg Harbican Sent: 21 July 2005 16:15 To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Propane - ABio fuel? Not to cause a problem, but, most of the time, the fuel bought at stores is Propane ( sometimes MAPP gas or even Butane ) not NG.NG requires special handling procedures and compressors, that are not common except at NG terminals ( this is part of why NG powered cars are few and far between ). I worked security for several years at NG shaving operation, where they mixed propane with enough air, to bring it down to the same BTU values as NG, so it could be used in NG appliances.If they didn't do this, the orifice would have to be changed to one with a smaller opening.If propane was not mixed with air and the orifice was not one that had a smaller opening the pilot light in your stove or furnace would be close to 6 inches long ( instead of half an inch or so ), and you would burn out your stove. Now, if you lower the pressure of the propane going to the appliance, you can achieve much the same effect. The whole idea, is to deliver the same amount of BTU's to the burn area just outside of the orifice, over the same amount of time. BioMethane generally has to be scrubbed of CO2 and H2S, before it is useable in any great amount, but, once the H2S and CO2 have been removed, BioMethane can be used just like NG ( at lower pressure unless you use a compressor to raise the pressure ). Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):
Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel
This is a place were a fuel filter heater can come in handy. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 16:44 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Biodiesel SNIP Spec it to10 microns filtration and be happy. After that, it's not the sediment that will grab you by the short and curlies but the saturated esters (from animal fats and hydrogenated oils. Depending upon the parent stock, your filter could be throttled by B-100 at temps as high as 40*F. Last time we rendered deer tallow and made biodiesel from it we were stonewalled after an overnight temp of 56*F. Todd Swearingen Ian Theresa Sims wrote: Does anyone tell me how long Biodiesel will keep after production. Can someone clarify the final filter process after production. Some say 5 microns some say 10. Mike pelly's recipe dosn't seem to say anything about it? And how long should it stand or can you pour it straight in? Cheers Ian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power
Sorry to hear about it, no one should have to go through what you did. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 23:58 Subject: [Biofuel] Feeling of humiliation and lack of power 26 hours ago, I woke up to the sound of our dogs barking. I slept hard, so she probably gone on for a while. When she would not stop, I went up to tell her of. She was standing in the front door that was open, just as much as she could not get out. After looking in my office, I discovered that my computer (a notebook) was gone and so was my wife's, further checking proved that some more valuables was gone. If it wasn't for Foxy, probably or lot more would have been gone. It was an enormous feeling of violation and I spent the whole day with the police and to sort things out. Discovered also that my CD case with the normal and recent back ups was gone. Maybe it was good that I did not wake up a few minutes earlier, because it would probably led to that ether myself or others would have been hurt. I was in a mood that I easily could have picked a fight. It has taken me 26 hours without sleep, to get that far that I can send this letter. I also had to secure the remote servers and change a lot of passwords. Not that anyone, including me, belive that they would be able or want to connect and do anything. Only the risk, means that I must work hard and fast in the right order to minimize the possibilities. It is places where normal honest people, suddenly and without any obvious reason can get their front door knocked down. They will be searched and the intruders will claim whatever they like to label as illegal, without proper definitions, and arrest normal people like yourself and members of your family. It is worse and even more humiliating. How can any sane person even expect or at least say that this would lead to winning the hearts and minds, the one who says so, must be pretty stupid or lying. The people that belive them must be even more stupid, or be without the slightest capacity of imagination and understanding. Hakan ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Diesel Motorcycles ( Was: Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes )
120 miles per gallon at 80 miles per hour !! Diesel Power Military Motorcycles http://blogs.motorbiker.org/Blogs.nsf/dx/07262003184414MIKMMQ.htm Civilian Version of Military KLR DIESEL Motorcycle http://blogs.motorbiker.org/blogs.nsf/dx/05272004112942MWED66.htm http://www.f1engineering.com/ Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 3:46 Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; There are some MC's running on diesel. In india they are selling old british (Enfield Bullets) bikes converted to diesel. In Europe there are some small companies working diesel based bikes. But out of the big manufacturers (Suzuki Honda Yanaha Kawasaki BMW Harley etc) none of them has such model. I believe the emissions may be a reason, also high maintenance and heavy engines (compared to gasoline). In any case a samll capacity (less than 250cc) bike will give you avery high mileage (like 50 to 60mpg) (2 litres to 100km). Higher displacement bikes (like 1000cc 100Hp) whic will give you 30 to 40mpg (6 litre to 100km). Consumption on bikes heavily depends how much you twist throttle and how often. With the same bike different riders (with different habits) will have different values. If I were to prefer the MC for savings I would stick to 4 stroke 250cc engine utility models. Cheap to buy, cheap to maintain and cheap to insure. I just wish more drivers would use MC's to save energy time and money. Last month there was an article about a Motorcycle running on fuel cell. Another good idea. Please check http://envbike.com/ Best Regards Burak Cedetas -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Rademan, Jacobus Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 10:15 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hi all, i own a landrover disco tdi and get 980km on a tank 85l but on the motorbike which use petrol 19km/l my question,where are the tdi motorbikes,diesel cars are lighter than petrol cars,so diesel bikes will also be,is 40km/l reachable? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 10, 2005 8:30 AM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Hello; 22mpg diesel cost less than same amount of gasoline so you save some. BUT, May I ask why do you need a Hummer sized expedition machine? Except USA such large cars or SUV's are out of our shopping list anyway. The cost and running expenses do not justify them. I like going offroad. Currently I do that with a motorbike. If I choose to buy an offroad 4x4, I wouldn't consider anything bigger than 2.5 litre diesel which will give me at least 25 to 30mpg. May be we should consider to change our purchasing habbits in favour of preserving whatever is left in the world in terms of resources. I hope the below quote from your e-mail will come true some day; The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. As I have written in my previous e-mail, our kids will be the ones to suffer / enjoy results of our choices. Regards Burak -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mike Weaver Sent: Tuesday, August 09, 2005 2:24 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Check out Diesel Won't Solve Our Gasoline Woes Not in a Hummer-sized or Expedition-sized vehicle you won't! I counted over 30 that don't even get 20 mpg on EPA's website. I have a VW Golf and get at least 43-46. The US doesn't sell small diesels, except the Jeep, but it's so heavy it still get no mileage. Isuzu was was the last carmaker to build a decent midsize SUV w/ a diesel - it got 30-35 or so but that was years ago. The US needs (and will) get over its fascination w/ giant cars. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hello; You will get far more than 22mpg with diesel. Unless of course you are looking for very large capacity engine (like 6 litres) which and average city user does not need. Over here (outside of USA) you can buy 2.5 to 3.5 litre diesel engined SUV's and Vans. You will get at least 25mpg. And these are 4x4 heavy duty machines. Or you can get small capacity diesel cars (example 1.6 litre Hyundai Getz) and you get something like 40 miles to a gallon easily. These are real life values including city traffic (not test values). I have looked at the article, it mentiones that in US the refineries do not have the capacity for the diesel production. Well hey maybe this is a great opportunity for bio-diesel Start using the vegetable oil or even better waste vegetable oil. You will save the environment, create jobs for local farmers and pollute far less. I
Re: [Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead
Kim, where do I find such maps? I have tried Google, but, ended up with world maps, or nothing more than US demographic tables ( which were not very helpful ). Greg H. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, July 10, 2005 7:00 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Bring land back from the dead Greetings, Get a map that shows illiteracy rates, anywhere that the rate is 40% or better you can find cheap land. Also, most of these areas have no or not enforced building codes. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] washing?
I wonder what leaving the extra methanol does to the low temperature flow characteristics of BioDiesel?Could this be an asset during winter? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Ken Provost [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 18:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] washing? on 8/11/05 4:56 PM, the skapegoat at [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: His main argument seemed to be against losing the energy in the methanol that was washed out. The energy does you no good if your particular thermodynamic cycle can't take advantage of it. What is the cetane rating of methanol? I'm just wondering if Tickell is so worried about wasting the methanol by washing it out if there is a better way of retrieving it. Not much MeOH left in the biodiesel. Most goes into the glycerol phase, particularly if you do a water addition to the glycerol. Best to retrieve it from there. -K ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] magnasol
Search the list archives, that should tell you all you need. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Vincent zadworny To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 12, 2005 17:48 Subject: [Biofuel] magnasol hello all, first i would like to catch you up on what happening here at the recycling company i work for. we are now running b100 in a truck made by yours truely which is making my boss exstatic. thank you to all on this list for all the help and info. with out it i would have blown myself up months ago. lol but oi have a question, a little bird told me that i am able to use a product called magnasol in the wash and it shortens the wash to an immediate clean product?? any body here of it or have any info.?? vince z vancouver bc __Do You Yahoo!?Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around http://mail.yahoo.com ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks
What size of enginecan the 6.9L replace? I havea85Grand Marquewith a defunct 5L engine. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Wireless Data Transfer To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 21:24 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks If I'm correct, Ford first used a diesel on their pick up line on '82, it was the 6.9liter made by International(Navistar) which evolved later to the 7.3liter.If a recall allright, it is a direct bolt-on swap, those diesel should mate any Ford transmission, standard or auto (for the auto, the C6 is recommended).The engine mounts might be slighlty different, but a visit to the local Ford parts dealer should help you find the adequate engine-to-frame mounts. - Original Message - From: DERICK GIORCHINO To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, August 15, 2005 4:09 PM Subject: RE: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks Ford did as dodge does. For years ford installed international harvester engines in there trucks and vans but represented them as a ford product. Dont get me wrong they were good engines but I never saw a turbo unit. Im not sure when ford came out with there powerstroke. Dodge has always used Cummins ether 12 or 24 valve also very strong good engines. Good luck Derick From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of aidan, cathy bradSent: Saturday, August 13, 2005 11:38 AMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks we have a Ford '72 F250 that has really low mileage on it and were considering a diesel conversion. how far back did Ford make diesels for their trucks (assuming that they do.) any input would be appreciated. On Saturday, August 13, 2005, at 11:34 AM, Tom Irwin wrote: Hi All,It looks like I´m finally going redneck and buying my first pickup truck. Of course, it will be a diesel. I was looking at used Chevy S-10´s, particularly the double cabin variety as I have two small kids. I´m looking for a tough, long lasting vehicle that I can haul building materials, worm bins, bagged vermicompost, and drums of waste oil and ethanol.I´d also be using it to get my wife and I to work and the kids to school. I´m not interested in something sexy, I married her. I need a working vehicle. Anysuggestions out there. Of the vehicles I saw in the archives, there were things like hybrids that I really don´t think I need. Any Brazilian pickups that run on straight ethanolI would certainly consider.It´s just that I´m planning on generating my own electricity and heating my house with a diesel generator. It doesn´t really make much sense to me at this point to go ethanol.Thanks,Tom Irwin___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Food for thought - and for the body
I thought a few peoplemightlike this. The Urban Aquaculture Manual http://www.webofcreation.org/Building-and-grounds/aqua/Chap1.html Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Made our first biodiesel
Way To Go! Greg H. - Original Message - From: Garth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 6:52 Subject: [Biofuel] Made our first biodiesel Greetings, Just a quick note to let you know that Garth made our first biodiesel this weekend. It is sitting and drying in the sun today then it can go in my car. We are going to have to watch the amount of lye we use as our environment is extremely humid. We did have to process the virgin oil twice to get good quality. After 4 washes, the wash water is clear. Bright Blessings, Kim ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks
Sound's very do-able, although I think I would go with the turbo just because I live at 5500 ft and have lot's of hills that can top out at 9000ft to 14000ft to climb ( some of them from a dead stop ). I do think I would stay with the automatic trannie, but, would see if I could find a aftermarket overdrivefor it. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Wireless Data Transfer To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 17, 2005 21:49 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel Pick Up Trucks The 6.9L HP rating is near to the one of the 302 (5.0L), but the TORQUE figure is huge! The 5.0-litre was rated 185-205 hp, the 6.9 litre diesel V8 was rated at 170hp , with torque 330-390 pounds-feet,and the 7.3-litre diesel V8 was rated 185-210 hp., with torque 360-425 pounds-feet.What suffers here are theuniversal joints! :-) So, replacing the gas 5.0 for the 6.9 will "feel" almost the same. In the case you REALLY need more "punch" Gale Banks makes a turbo for the 6.9, which increases HP at least 20% and torque up to 30%. There was also a companyI can't recall the name, which made a system called "HyperMax" Pulse, or something like it. Just remember, for towing, the torque of the 6.9 will have no match, but it might feel kind of "slow" while taking offfrom a dead stop.It just a matter of getting used on how and when to shift, if standard tranny is used.If the auto is going to be used, then you will see no difference, and you can always adjust the kickdown to suit your driving habits. What will be better, and sorry here if you are a hard core Ford lover, is to replace the whole drivetrain (engine-tranny) with a Chevy 6.2 diesel mated to a 4speed 700R4 tranny, which has a more than adequate 1st gear, while the 4th is an overdrive, for ease of highway driving and better fuel economy.There are a big number of company that might provide you with whatever is required for such swap.Advance Adapters is one of those. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alum as coagulant
IIRC, aluminum soaps will thicken fuels, and that was a early way to make napalm. I'm not saying that alum would do this, but, it should be something to keep in mind, as, soap is a byproduct of biofuel production. You would not want a tank full of a flammable sticky gel that does not flow. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Doug Turner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 8:06 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alum as coagulant Hi Wes: Thanks for the information. I was wondering if you have determined if adding alum has any impact on processing the WVO into BD. My weak, old, and somewhat suspect knowledge of chemistry tells me that alum will dramatically alter the pH of unbuffered solutions and that some metals (not sure about aluminium) will hasten oxidization rates in vegetable oils, shortening their shelf-life. I don't know enough to figure out for myself if there would be an impact on processing. Any ideas? TIA Doug Turner - Original Message - From: Wes Moore [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 14, 2005 7:38 AM Subject: [Biofuel] Alum as coagulant After a few months of experimenting with Alum (1 liter test batches) I have concluded that Alum is effective to congeal water and most of the black sludge in used cooking oil. By adding about 1 teaspoon of alum to a liter of dirty oil, stirring and leaving to settle for a day or two, there is an obvious clarity to the oil and a layer of sediment at the bottom of the container. To make this process even more attractive, by adding more oil after pouring the clarified oil off the top, the alum seems to be able to clarify the next couple of batches without adding more alum. Adding powdered bentonite seems to help, although I have not tried to separate the effects of each. I would be interested to hear the experiences of others. Wes ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
- Original Message - From: Darryl McMahon [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 8:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power The company says they have overcome the problem of the water freezing. No indication they have changed the properties of water to do so. There is the posabilities that they are using exaust or coolent to keep the water liquid, but, then I would expect that they would have issues in the summer with faster evaporation of the water. Distilled water is a poorer conductor than water with some types of impurities in it. Yes, but the impurities will cause residues in the electrolysis unit, so best to avoid them. Depends on the impurities and what they are using for electrodes. Certian salts would do it, if they had non-reactive electrodes. Someone is blowing smoke, but, I doubt it is the diesel trucks. I understand and support skepticism about the claims. However, until we have evidence to counter the company's claims (and they have years of research and testing behind them, and testimonials from people at company names I recognize), I don't think we should label them as charlatans. Do you have that evidence? We have also seen claims and testimonials that acetone and various magnetic devices will improve mileage as well. OTOH, a thought occurred to me last night as I was getting into bed. They are making a lot of loud noises about the H2 that they are getting from the water, but, we have no idea what they are doing with the O2.What if it is the increased amount of O2, that is partially ( if not mostly responsible ) for the changes in the engine combustion? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Ok, I was thinking that since alcohol had more H2 per molecule. Greg H. - Original Message - From: michael skinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 21:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power 1 liter of water = 1000g divide by molecular wt of water 18 gives 55.6 moles of water x 2 for 111 moles of H 1 liter of ethanol = 789.3 g divide by molecular wt of 46.07 = 17.1 mole of ethanol x 6 for 103 moles of H per liter. adding ethanol lowers # of H / liter. 1 liter of methanol = 791.4 g divide by molecular wt of 32.04 = 24.7 moles x4 for 98 moles of H so on a per volume basis you lower the H by adding alcohol. is you calculate the moles of H per gram is it 0.11/0.12/0.13 for water/methanol/ethanol respectively Original Message Follows From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:41:33 -0700 The water may be more plentiful, but, it still takes up volume and mass. 1 gal of water weighs about 8.35 lbs. and takes up 231 cubic inches So 90 gal weighs over 750 lbs and takes up over 12 cubic ft. That's a lot, of extra weight and volume being taken up. I can't help but wonder if the water is being doped with alcohol - it would increase the amount of H2 per unit of liquid, and IIRC, increases conductivity of the water, not to mention decreasing the temperature of freezing solid. Can anyone confirm the effects of electricity through alcohol? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks
This makes allot more sense. #1I suspect that the stainless steel cell may be one of the electrodes. #5I wonder if it makes a difference if the 100 hours at 15 mph or at 75 mph? Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 18:23 Subject: [Biofuel] Supplemental Hydrogen Injection for Class 8 Trucks Ok everyone, I went to Hodgson Heavy Duty this afternoon to inquire about the supplemental hydrogen injection unit. Here are the pertinent facts: 1. The unit consists of a single, enclosed cell made of stainless steel. I don't know what they're using for electrode or separator material. 2. Voltage from the truck's charging circuit is stepped down and amperage increased. The actual unit runs about 2 volts, with current densities a little over 60 amps. 3. The cell contains an electric heater at the bottom, which is activated by a sensor ONLY when the truck's engine is running. The unit is designed for freezing weather and will heat up sufficiently for full function within two hours, if it's been frozen solid. Most truckers leave their engines running in cold weather, however, so this apparently isn't much of a problem. 4. H2 and O2 are injected together, at 60 psi on the pressure side of the intake, downstream from the turbo. When the engine is shut off, all gases are purged from the system for safety. 5. The water reservoir must be recharged at about 100 hours of service. Electrolyte is never replenished. 6. The unit is guaranteed to increase fuel economy by at least 10%. Larry Hodgson says that four of his regular customers have the supplemental hydrogen unit installed, and they report gains in power and fuel economy. (He's installed many of these, but not all customers are REGULAR customers.) When the unit has a problem, he says the drivers can tell right away that it isn't working because there's a notable loss of power. 7. One customer, who hauls Super B train loads of wood chips to and from a mill over the Cascades, reports only a 2% fuel economy gain because of the topography of his run. This trucker burns over $12 000 in fuel every month, saving about $250. At that rate of return, the unit will not pay for itself (it runs about $15 000 CDN) before the lease on the truck runs out. Larry Hodgson reports that this guy remains happy with the electrolyzer, however, because the increased power helps him climb the nightmare grades between here and there. 8. Larry Hodgson says the company is reputable and stands behind their product. Now, he's got a VERY busy shop. The Lickman Road interchange, where his truck shop is located, is the third busiest commercial intersection in Canada. There are trucks and trailers lined up to get into Hodgson Heavy Duty, and having worked in that industry myself, I don't think a repair shop owner would risk the reputation of his business on a product that didn't perform as advertised; I know the profit / loss margins are very narrow in the repair business. He was very helpful and talked to me for over twenty minutes. robert luis rabello The Edge of Justice Adventure for Your Mind http://www.newadventure.ca Ranger Supercharger Project Page http://www.members.shaw.ca/rabello/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
And justhow long do they have to make the adjustments? Greg H. - Original Message - From: john owens To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 21, 2005 13:45 Subject: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power I dono if this is realy related to truckers using hydrogen but this website http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/claims to increase milage on cars by 50% they will also instal units and if "with the right adjusments"they cant give a 50% increase in milage they will give you the unit free. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
If they don't achieve the 50% increase, they are out only about $800, if they do, the person, who had it installed is out about $2100. Talk about a rip off in favor of the company. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:54 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power If after making the proper adjustments, we cannot achieve a 50% increase in mileage over the baseline mileage figures, *the Hydrogen-Boost system is yours free of charge*. However if we achieve over 50% increase in mileage you agree to *pay double *the regular prices. I'm guessing the person won't gamble $1500 (cost of the unit looks like $7500. Greg and April wrote: And just how long do they have to make the adjustments? Greg H. - Original Message - *From:* john owens mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] *To:* Biofuel@sustainablelists.org mailto:Biofuel@sustainablelists.org *Sent:* Monday, November 21, 2005 13:45 *Subject:* [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power I dono if this is realy related to truckers using hydrogen but this website http://www.hydrogen-boost.com/ claims to increase milage on cars by 50% they will also instal units and if with the right adjusments they cant give a 50% increase in milage they will give you the unit free. John ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Robert, Do you plan any experiments in the near future? Greg H. - Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, November 15, 2005 19:37 Subject: hydrogen power SNIP I have built several electrolyzers SNIP ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power
Michael, You seem the have the chemistry I lack, maybe you can tell me about how many moles of H to a liter of glycerin C 3 H 5 (OH)3 ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: michael skinner [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, November 19, 2005 21:07 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power 1 liter of water = 1000g divide by molecular wt of water 18 gives 55.6 moles of water x 2 for 111 moles of H 1 liter of ethanol = 789.3 g divide by molecular wt of 46.07 = 17.1 mole of ethanol x 6 for 103 moles of H per liter. adding ethanol lowers # of H / liter. 1 liter of methanol = 791.4 g divide by molecular wt of 32.04 = 24.7 moles x4 for 98 moles of H so on a per volume basis you lower the H by adding alcohol. is you calculate the moles of H per gram is it 0.11/0.12/0.13 for water/methanol/ethanol respectively Original Message Follows From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power Date: Fri, 18 Nov 2005 07:41:33 -0700 The water may be more plentiful, but, it still takes up volume and mass. 1 gal of water weighs about 8.35 lbs. and takes up 231 cubic inches So 90 gal weighs over 750 lbs and takes up over 12 cubic ft. That's a lot, of extra weight and volume being taken up. I can't help but wonder if the water is being doped with alcohol - it would increase the amount of H2 per unit of liquid, and IIRC, increases conductivity of the water, not to mention decreasing the temperature of freezing solid. Can anyone confirm the effects of electricity through alcohol? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, November 17, 2005 16:31 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] truckers choose hydrogen power H. Well, considering that they go through 100 gallons of diesel fuel in an 8 hour day, and water (even clean water) is way more plentiful than diesel), that actually doesn't seem that bad if it allows saving maybe 5% of the diesel fuel. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada
At www.sor.com ( Specter Off Road ), you can find about any engine that went into a Landcruiser, including diesels. 4,5, and 6 cyl diesel engines http://www.sor.com/sor/cat035b.tam?xax=22710 Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, November 28, 2005 16:46 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Diesel pick-ups in Canada You might have an easier time in Canada than here in the US, but here the little 4 cylinder diesel pickups are few and far between. They're selling for upwards of $5,000 if in good shape with under 200,000km. I had to drive 1,200 miles to get mine, and then only because I had good connections. Check Ebay, and be willing to take a road trip to get it. You might see if you can import one from Japan, or get a diesel engine from japan to transplant into a North american market toyota. I know a few people who have done that. Zeke On 11/28/05, steve reimer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Any suggestions on where I can find a small to mid sized diesel pick-up truck in Ontario, Canada? In the truck trader, I only found 2 or 3 older trucks with over 300 000km. Steve Reimer ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves good enoughprotection?
In an obscure way, I am all ready there. A neighbor up the street let me know about a month ago that if he ever suspects that I am making BioDiesel, he will make sure that one way or another will I end up in court ( legal or civil ). I'm not totaly sure of what the issue is, but, near as I can tell, he is one of those No one should do it but the professionals type of people, and he works for the city utilities ( I have found that he is the one of the people involved in buying the electricity for the city, so the fact that I want to use the BioDiesel to generate my own electricity is probably some concern to him ). It appears that the city has an obscure law about how much fuel ( and by what type) that can be stored on the premises of a residence, and only 5 gal of diesel ( of any type ) may be on hand at any time ( although 30 gal of kero may be stored ) in approved DOT above ground containers.To simplify things for inspectors, anything not approved by the law, is illegal. I'm still trying to figure out the ins and out's of this law, and so I'm just taking my time. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 13:40 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves good enoughprotection? Hi Keith, You're probably right. I just have the fear that someone will kill/blind/maim themselves making BD and it'll be seized on by the forces of darkness. If training were available, or we could setp an serious non-profit (that is NOT the National Biodiesel Board) and do training, like The Motorcycle Safety Institute does, it would be a real service. I have toyed with the idea of a non-profit geared to and supported by the home-brew and smaller brew gang, to keep and an eye on legislation, provide the truth to the media and Congress and other Goverments, and to lobby to counter the anit-BD and biofuels people. This group could also provide training courses and certify trainers. Maybe to outreach to farmers and fleet drivers. I don't get the feeling the NBB is our friend. In no way do I mean to challenge your knowledge and instincts; you have far more experience and standing than I do. I guess I'm a Nervous Nellie sometimes. I am always careful to tell newbies coming by to learn what I do and why. Then I make a small batch with SVO, so it works, then move on from there. As for my safety when brewing, I do what I'm comfortable with. I spent years as a mechanic and have a bit of clue as to what to wear and when. That said, have I whipped up a small batch without gloves? Yup. I don't brew inside anymore, though. I finally built a shed for that, with good ventilation. Your JTF pages are good. I wouldn't add much. I have a punch list I give to people but you pretty much cover everything. Thanks, Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection?
I'm a residence not a restraunt/business, so the exemtions for 'Other Oils' don't apply. Greg H. - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 19:38 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection? it's only biodiesel if you call it biodiesel. i would call it a biodegradable degreaser, cooking oil,cleaning fluid ,or yellow stuff. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene glovesgood enoughprotection?
No. Near as I can tell, everything is NG with some electric and a few solar. Greg H - Original Message - From: Chris [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 18:59 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene glovesgood enoughprotection? Greg, Do people heat with fuel oil where you are? If so, that's not Biodiesel being stored, it's fuel oil. They have got to allow tanks of that. (Assuming people heat with oil where you are.) Chris K Cayce, SC ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection?
Furnace is Natural Gas. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kenji James Fuse [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 23:43 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection? Hey Greg, Can't you put your biodiesel in a furnace tank and call it home heating oil? That should get around that arcane law. Too bad about your neighbour, tho'... Kenji Fuse ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection?
It's one thing if it is a vehicle fuel tank, something else if it is not. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Zeke Yewdall [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 01, 2005 22:02 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Methanol - was Re: neoprene gloves goodenoughprotection? Hmmm. Remind me never to come to your town, as my truck has an 18.5 gallon fuel tank filled with biodiesel/diesel. If I parked in your driveway, It'd be illegal. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass
- Original Message - From: robert luis rabello [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, December 05, 2005 18:56 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cat question was Re: Lay low in the high grass Marylynn Schmidt wrote: HOW MANY MACDONALDS HAMBURGERS HAS THE AVERAGE CHILD EATEN IN A WEEK .. IN 2 WEEKS? I haven't had a McDonald's hamburger since I was about 7. (That was a VERY long time ago!) My children have NEVER eaten them. I'm trying to understand your point, Mary Lynn. English is not my first language and I might be a little bit dense, but I'm not following what McDonald's hamburgers have to do with commercial cat food. That's ok, Robert, English ( well American English ) is my first language, and I don't understand either. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] WVO candles
It isn't Stearin is it? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 08, 2005 7:21 Subject: [Biofuel] WVO candles There's a product you can buy here in any supermarket, cheap, a white powder claimed to be made from 100% castor oil. You're supposed to add it to your used cooking oil when you're finished with it, while it's still hot, stir it up and it sets into a solid gel which you can add to the burnable garbage bin rather than throwing it down the drain or the toilet. (People say they've never seen anyone buying any of it though!) snip Anyone have any idea what this castor oil stuff might be or how it works? I've never heard of it before but for all I know it's common everywhere. Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alum as coagulant
There is quite likely Aluminum in Alum, depending on type. Alum Aluminum Sulfate Al2(SO4) Note the AL2(SO4) in 3 of the 4 types of Alum below ( not a complete list ): Potash alum, K2SO4·Al2(SO4)3·24H2O Sodium alum, Na2SO4·Al2(SO4)3·24H2O Chrome alum, K2SO4·Cr2(SO4)3·24H2O Ammonia alum, NH4Al(SO4)2·12H2O Alum, in chemistry, is a term given to the crystallized double sulfates of the typical formula M+2SO4·M3+2(SO4)3·24H2O, where M+ is the sign of an alkali metal (lithium, sodium, potassium, rubidium, or cesium), and M3+ denotes one of the trivalent metals (typically ALUMINIUM, chromium, or iron (III)). The ammonium ion (NH4+) also occurs in the M+ position. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alum Like I said, IIRC, aluminum soaps will thicken fuels, and that was a early way to make napalm. I'm not saying that alum would do this, but, it should be something to keep in mind, as, soap is a byproduct of biofuel production. Greg H. - Original Message - From: John Donahue [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, December 13, 2005 21:11 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Alum as coagulant Alum is not the same as aluminum John D. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline
Ran across this on another list, and thought people here wouldinterested it. http://butanol.com/index.html http://www.ilcorn.org/Corn_Products/Butanol/butanol.html Be interesting to see the information about BioDiesel made with butanol. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline
I have already sent an inquiry, regarding it use with BioDiesel, and will pass along any info they may send me. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Tom Irwin To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:16 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline Hi Greg, I don't think you will see too much about butanol being used for biodiesel. I could be wrong but I believe viscosity goes up rather dramatically by increasing the number of carbons on the ester chain. A few years back I tried to use propanol to make BioD and although there was some separation, the top layer, (I dare not call it BioD) was like molasses in consistency. I can only imagine what the addition of another carbon to the alcohol would do. Tom Irwin From: Greg and April [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSent: Thu, 15 Dec 2005 13:04:12 -0300Subject: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline Ran across this on another list, and thought people here wouldinterested it. http://butanol.com/index.html http://www.ilcorn.org/Corn_Products/Butanol/butanol.html Be interesting to see the information about BioDiesel made with butanol. Greg H. ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline
For use as solvent, I suspect it's going to have to be of higher purity, to avoid possible contamination - that will drive up the price right there. If the plant works out, that will help bring the price down of even solvent grade. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Paul S Cantrell To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, December 15, 2005 12:02 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] BioButanol replaces gasoline From the first URL:"Butanol currently sells for about $3.70 per gallon in bulk (barge) and $6.80 in 55 gallon drums."and"Our preliminary cost estimates suggest that we can produce butanol from corn for about $1.20 per gallon, not including a credit for the hydrogen produced. This compares with ethanol production costs of about $1.28 per gallon. Taking into account the higher Btu content of butanol, this translates to 105,000 Btu per dollar for butanol and 84,000 Btu per dollar for ethanol with corn at $2.50 per bushel. As a further point of reference, butanol produced from petroleum costs about $1.35 per gallon to manufacture."With US wholesale gasoline (ie barge) at ~$1.65 (Source: NYMEX for January delivery), $1.20 per gallon production sounds great, especially against $1.35 per gallon from petrochem. But if the (bio)Butanol would be worth $3.70 as a solvent, would the price as a fuel be low enough to replace gasoline? I think only if the supply outstripped demand to a large degree. No rational capitalist would sell a product worth $3.70 for $1.65. Did I miss something? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution'
I wonder if that is per gallon of fuel used or per mile driven.Depending on which one it is, it can make a big difference. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, December 23, 2005 1:40 Subject: [Biofuel] Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution' http://www.guardian.co.uk/climatechange/story/0,12374,1671722,00.html Guardian Unlimited | Special reports | Motorbikes '16 times worse than cars for pollution' Ian Sample, science correspondent Wednesday December 21, 2005 The Guardian Motorbikes are churning out more pollution than cars, even though they make up only a small fraction of vehicles on the roads, according to a report. Tests on a selection of modern motorbikes and private cars revealed that rather than being more environmentally-friendly, motorbikes emit 16 times the amount of hydrocarbons, including greenhouse gases, three times the carbon monoxide and a disproportionately high amount of other pollutants, compared to cars. Ana-Marija Vasic at the Swiss Federal Laboratories for Materials Testing and Research, who led the research, said the need to legislate on emissions from motorbikes has been overlooked because there are so few on the roads. The oversight has lead to a paucity of research into ways of making their engines run more cleanly. In Britain, there are 1,060,000 motorbikes on the road but more than 25m private cars. Dr Vasic's tests showed that, especially in urban traffic, when motorcyclists frequently accelerated quickly, motorbike engines burned fuel inefficiently, giving a sharp peak in emissions. The yearly hydrocarbon emissions of the average two-wheeler in urban traffic measured up to 49 times higher than that of the average car, according to the study, due to be published in the journal Environmental Science and Technology. The importance of [motorbike] emissions has been underestimated in legislation, giving manufacturers little motivation to improve aftertreatment systems, said Dr Vasic. The tests were carried out on a variety of Yamaha, Piaggio and Honda 50cc scooters and Suzuki, Honda and BMW motorbikes with engine sizes ranging from 800cc to 1150cc. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater?
Dipstick engine heaters, are not a good way of heating an engine in winter. These heaters can cook ( overheat ) the oil right next to the heater, and leave the rest of the oil cold, depending on the way the engine is made and the fact that oil does not freely circulate as well as coolant does. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Teoman Naskali [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, December 24, 2005 15:33 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] free inline fuel heater? I just purchased some dipstick engine heaters. But I live in europe and they came from america, so they are 120V. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez. Another difference between the Chicago offer and the programs enacted in the Northeast is that Citgo proposed to work with a government agency, rather than nonprofit organizations. The CTA relies on the US federal government - which is in a constant war of words with Venezuelan President Chavez - for much of its funding. In fact, just weeks after Citgo made its offer to the CTA, Congress signed the Federal Transportation Appropriations bill, allocating $89 million in infrastructure project funds the CTA had been seeking for years. Representatives from the US State Department and city officials, including Aldermen involved in
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar arrangement with Citizens Energy Corp. in Boston for the sale and distribution of 12 million gallons, saving low-income and elderly residents there a total of $10 million. The company's website says that it expects to expand the program to other boroughs in New York City and that it is exploring the possibility of offering discounted fuel to residents in Maine, Rhode Island, Connecticut and Pennsylvania. However, in all of Illinois, only about 12,000 households use heating oil. So instead of fuel for heat, Citgo representatives offered the CTA a 40-50 percent discount on diesel fuel for buses to benefit Chicagoans most in need of relief from soaring oil and gas prices this winter. We didn't know how else to reach enough people, said Consul Sanchez
Re: [Biofuel] was.. Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
As I mentioned in a earlier post, if all of Chicago's busses were run / controlled by a nonprofit organization and the oil went to the organization, it would not involve a local government and then the use of discount oil could not be considered a bribe. Greg H. - Original Message - From: AEN [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:26 Subject: [Biofuel] was.. Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Hello, The agreements to supply discounted heating oil have been made through citgo, the legal U.S. subsiid.. with full business status in the U.S. It is not a situation of making treaties with foreign nations, so it should not be considered as such You don't see U.S. oil co's offering any relief what so ever on heating fuel costs do you?. Even after the record profits that they have raked in last year. The whole situation is purely political and if Canada or Britain offered the same deal, it would most probably be gratefully accepted. Is it ok to say we are not going to accept oil from an alleged oppressive regime such as Chaves's while bombing Bagdad? This is no defence of Citgo but they regularly offer discounted oil to poor people in several other countries as well. Might be something U.S. OIL could look at...don't hold your breath. Pure political BS. OK, so Chicago authorities want to save face and not get involved for their own reasons mean while thousands of poor Americans can't afford to keep warm this winter or obtain discount transport. regards tallex ---Original Message--- From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Sent: 05 Jan '06 15:17 IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. Get your daily alternative energy news Alternate Energy Resource Network 1000+ news sources-resources updated daily http://www.alternate-energy.net Next Generation Grid http://groups.yahoo.com/group/next_generation_grid/ Tomorrow-energy http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tomorrow-energy/ Alternative Energy Politics http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Alternative_Energy_Politics/ - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
It is one thing to distribute heating oil at a discount through local non-profit charities, it is another to give a local government, a discount on fuel that is used on a for profit program. An agreement between a foreign government owned company and a local government is an agreement between 2 governments, the company is just a front for one of the governments. It could be argued in court that the foreign government was trying to influence the local populace or politicians, and the below cost fuel was a bribe, since the fuel could be used to make a profit.That is why treaties between local US governments and foreign nations are illegal. If Chicago gave up all of it's busses to a private non-profit organization, not connected with any government, there should be no legal problems, with the non-profit organization accepting the fuel, and using it to run the busses - using the bus fairs to pay for the fuel and running and maintance of the busses. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Hakan Falk [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:13 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil This is a delivery agreement with a US company Citgo owned by Venezuela and a US city, regarding deliveries of discounted energy. I fail to see what might be illegal. Hakan At 16:17 05/01/2006, you wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew, resident of Humboldt Park, where one-third of residents live below the federally recognized poverty level - currently just $16,000 for a family of three. Chew relies on the CTA to get to work and to Chicago Commons, where she attends classes daily in preparation for taking her GED. Since she rarely has money to invest in a fare card, she will be forced to pay for transfers the majority of the time. Chew's classmate, Linda Cox, works a minimum-wage job and has been a Public Aid recipient for 15 years. She also relies heavily on public transportation. I only earn $560 a month and of that, over $200 a month goes to my bus fare, Cox told The NewStandard. I have a 15-year-old and a 17-year-old who also need to get to school. If they change the prices and take away transfers, there are going to be a lot of days missed. I already see no money at the end of the month. The offer of discount fuel is not just confined to Chicago. Over the Thanksgiving holiday, the first of Venezuela's oil-for-the-poor programs in the US was launched. Citgo struck a deal with three nonprofit organizations in the Bronx to deliver 5 million gallons of heating oil at 45 percent below the market price. The deal will amount to a savings of $4 million for the 8,000 low-income households slated to benefit from the plan. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me. -- Dorothy Chew Citgo has made a similar
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Todd, There is a world of difference between a non-profit organization buying cut rate fuel for the use of non-profit distribution to the poor, and a local government buying cut rate fuel for use in a 'for profit' program, even if it is supposed to benefit the poor. If Chicago was to buy the cut rate fuel, there would eventually be allot scandal issues, with accusation and counter accusation about members of the local government benefiting taking advantage from the cost difference. Eventually things would have ended up in court ( an expensive place ). This is what Chicago avoided by declining the fuel. OTOH, if a non-profit organization was to buy the fuel at the cut rate, and sell it to Chicago at the market price, then use the money gained to distribute special discount bus passes to the poor, then the poor would benefit, and the government could not.The same thing could have been achieved if the Citgo sold the fuel at market price, and gave a non-profit origination the difference between the money to reimburse the poor of Chicago for difference in the cost of the more expensive bus passes. What I am saying, is that arrangements could have been different, that would allow the poor to benefit, without bringing Venezuela by way of Citgo and the government of Chicago directly into contact.There should be a non-political organization that does not benefit in any way between Citgo and the poor of Chicago to avid the taint of corruption bribery.** It should be this way even if it was a domestic oil company that was donating the fuel. ** Greg H. Why are lemmings better than politicians? Lemmings only take themselves of cliffs. Politicians try to send you ahead telling you what a favor they are doing you to let you go first! - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 22:30 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Large difference between signing a treaty and signing a contract. Until such time as some form of federal embargo is placed against Venezuela, the market remains open and there are no restrictions against such a transaction. Todd Swearingen Greg and April wrote: Not really. See a previous post with the subject - Venezuela Oil Fields Back in State Control, from Keith Addison: In 2001, it passed a new law requiring oil production to be carried out by companies majority-owned by the government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Marty Phee [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, January 05, 2006 10:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil Very true, but wouldn't they be signing a contract with Citgo and not Venezuela. Greg and April wrote: IIRC, it's not legal for individual states or cities to make treaties with foreign nations, as such an agreement might be considered. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, January 04, 2006 23:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil http://newstandardnews.net/content/index.cfm/items/2710 Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil by Jessica Pupovac (bio) As Chicago's poorest face an increase to already-high public transit fees, the city is ignoring an offer of discounted diesel fuel to benefit low-income people. Chicago, Dec 28, 2005 - The Chicago Transit Authority is refusing an opportunity to alleviate commuting costs for hundreds of thousands in the Windy City's low-income neighborhoods. Instead of accepting deeply discounted fuel from the Venezuela-owned Citgo Petroleum Corporation, the city is instead raising fares to solve budget shortfalls. In an October meeting with representatives from the Chicago Transit Authority (CTA), the city's Department of Energy and other city officials, Citgo unveiled a plan to provide the Chicago with low-cost diesel fuel. The company's stipulation, at the bidding of Venezuelan President Hugo Chavez, was that the CTA, in turn, pass those savings on to poor residents in the form free or discounted fare cards. But two months later, despite claims of a looming budget crisis, the CTA president has no intent or plan to accept the offer, according to CTA spokesperson Ibis Antongiorgi. She gave no explanation. According to Venezuela's consul general in Chicago, Martin Sanchez, the CTA has yet to inform his office of its decision to decline the discount offer. In place of the proposed discount, which the CTA apparently does not want Chicagoans to even know about, budget shortfalls will be addressed by fare hikes. Chicagoans who are unaware of the Venezuela offer will be hit with an increase of 25 cents per ride next month, and discounted route-to-route transfers will be eliminated for passengers paying cash. This is going to hurt the poor and the minority people, like me, said Dorothy Chew
Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil
Wal-Mart is not a local government. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 06, 2006 6:50 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Chicago Turns Down Discounted Venezuelan Oil if that were true, wouldn't walmart be in big trouble vis-a-vis purchases from china? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FYI Monsanto Buys Seminis and enters the vegtable seed market
I thought people would be interested. Greg H. Maybe youve never heard of Seminis, but if youve ever perused these pages, youve almost undoubtedly tasted Seminis. Celebrity, Big Beef and Sweet Baby Girl tomatoes, North Star, Red Knight and Fat n Sassy peppers, Mars and Candy onions, Yellow Doll and Jade Star watermelons, the Seneca squashesall are Seminis varieties. Cont http://www.fedcoseeds.com/seeds/monsanto.htm ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] plastic from oil
Perhaps I have not been using the correct search words, but, I have been looking but have not been able to find what percentage of oil goes into making plastics. Does someone have any idea what it might be? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] plastic from oil
My bad for not being more specific in what I'mtrying to find. I am trying to find what percentage of oil ( and oil products ), is usedfor things like making plastic, asphalt, tar, and the like, andnot used directly for fuel. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 9:15 Subject: plastic from oil Perhaps I have not been using the correct search words, but, I have been looking but have not been able to find what percentage of oil goes into making plastics. Does someone have any idea what it might be? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] plastic from oil
Thanks Diego. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Diego Aguilera To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Saturday, January 21, 2006 8:14 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] plastic from oil Hi Greg! Well I googled your question and found this from Cheveron, sorry if I happend to step on any toes. http://www.chevron.com/products/about/elsegundo/about/what_we_do.asp " (...) Here's what just one barrel of crude oil can produce: Enough liquefied gases (such as propane) to fill 12 small (14.1 ounce) cylinders for home, camping or workshop use. Enough gasoline to drive a medium-sized car (17 miles per gallon) over 280 miles. Asphalt to make about one gallon of tar for patching roofs or streets. Lubricants to make about a quart of motor oil. Enough distillate fuel to drive a large truck (five miles per gallon) for almost 40 miles. If jet fuel fraction is included, that same truck can run nearly 50 miles. Nearly 70 kilowatt hours of electricity at a power plant generated by residual fuel. About four pounds of charcoal briquettes. Wax for 170 birthday candles or 27 wax crayons. There are enough petrochemicals left in that same barrel to provide the base for one of the following: 39 polyester shirts 750 pocket combs 540 toothbrushes 65 plastic dustpans 23 hula hoops 65 plastic drinking cups 195 one-cup measuring cups 11 plastic telephone housings 135 four-inch rubber balls The lighter materials in a barrel are used mainly for paint thinners and dry-cleaning solvents and they can make nearly a quart of one of these products. The miscellaneous fraction of what is left still contains enough by-products to be used in medicinal oils, still gas, road oil and plant condensates -- a real industrial horn of plenty. (...)" Hope its useful! Cheers! Diego On 1/20/06, Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My bad for not being more specific in what I'mtrying to find. I am trying to find what percentage of oil ( and oil products ), is usedfor things like making plastic, asphalt, tar, and the like, andnot used directly for fuel. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, January 20, 2006 9:15 Subject: plastic from oil Perhaps I have not been using the correct search words, but, I have been looking but have not been able to find what percentage of oil goes into making plastics. Does someone have any idea what it might be? Greg H.___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Let's not forget of the old wives tale of cat's laying on infants, smothering them. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 20:47 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome This an interesting hypothesis, but it brings to mind a question and a comment what were infants dying of prior to the initiation of the use of flame retardants? Crib deaths are reported in medical literature from early in the nineteenth century, and anecdotally much earlier still- at least this suggests multiple causes. This should be a no brainer to resolve. Arsenic and Antimony could easily be detected in post mortem tissue. It seems strange that nobody has reported any autopsy data, showing elevated levels of the metals. For that matter has anybody done simple collection of samples from the air above or around the mattresses and shown the presence of the toxic gases? personally, I am skeptical as usual. show me data, not speculation, and I will be convinced- it's as simple as that. toodles ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome
Our cat's would climb in the crib and snuggle down next to the babies, and the babies would snuggle right back.If the baby started fussing, the cats would sit up and wait for the wife or I to make that noisy thing quiet again. It got to one point that when my son was about 8-9 months, he actualy would go to sleep faster when a cat would join him.Usually it was the big tom, that would climb in and just start purring and my son would just be asleep in no time.Our son is now 6 and any cat that isn't on our bed, is more than likely on his bed, and he still goes to sleep faster with a cat with him. I'll say this, that big male, is friendly as all get out, and while he would take the rough play, but, would smack any kid that would be mean.That is one smart cat, and appears to know the difference between play ( even rough play ) and harassment. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Jeromie Reeves [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, January 24, 2006 10:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome That is not entirely a old wives tale. In 80/81 my little brother would have issues when our cat would get into his crib to try and drink his bottle. While it never killed him he did get upset. I can see how a child who is alergic, or if the cat is large, could possibly hurt a infant. Jeromie Greg and April wrote: Let's not forget of the old wives tale of cat's laying on infants, smothering them. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, January 23, 2006 20:47 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Sudden Infant Death Syndrome This an interesting hypothesis, but it brings to mind a question and a comment what were infants dying of prior to the initiation of the use of flame retardants? Crib deaths are reported in medical literature from early in the nineteenth century, and anecdotally much earlier still- at least this suggests multiple causes. This should be a no brainer to resolve. Arsenic and Antimony could easily be detected in post mortem tissue. It seems strange that nobody has reported any autopsy data, showing elevated levels of the metals. For that matter has anybody done simple collection of samples from the air above or around the mattresses and shown the presence of the toxic gases? personally, I am skeptical as usual. show me data, not speculation, and I will be convinced- it's as simple as that. toodles ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] FYI - US commerical production of diesel motorcycle to start.
HDT USA to start commercial production of diesel fuel motorcycles in March 2006. http://www.m1030.com/models.htm ( click on "D650A1Bulldog" ) "With a world class rolling chassis, the proven performance and durability of the M1030M1 Military Motorcycle engine, the spectacular patriotic graphics, and over 102 mpg, the Diesel fueled D650A1Bulldog is a true "triple threat", winner for sport touring, on/off road riding, and everyday commuting. Production is scheduled for March of 2006.:" I am waiting for more information, and will pass it on when I receive it. Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production of diesel motorcycle to start.
Ok, I found out some more info. Currently, undergoing a final review of Federal and State regulations with regards to commercial motorcycles. 2006 models will be a limited production run of 200, that uses the same engine as the military model. For the limited production models - Alimited number of custom colors and graphics will be available Custom military tool kit, equipped for adventure touring Gearing will be customized to the rider's preference for on-road, off-road, or adventure touring. MSR $18,999, subject to change until release Due to interest, the company is currently evaluating the feasibility of offering the military model for commercial sale. More info: http://www.m1030.com/newsletter/newsletter_nov_05.htm Greg H. - Original Message - From: Greg and April To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, January 30, 2006 8:15 Subject: [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production of diesel motorcycle to start. HDT USA to start commercial production of diesel fuel motorcycles in March 2006.http://www.m1030.com/models.htm ( click on "D650A1Bulldog" )"With a world class rolling chassis, the proven performance and durability of the M1030M1 Military Motorcycle engine, the spectacular patriotic graphics, and over 102 mpg, the Diesel fueled D650A1Bulldog is a true "triple threat", winner for sport touring, on/off road riding, and everyday commuting. Production is scheduled for March of 2006.:" I am waiting for more information, and will pass it on when I receive it. Greg H.[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] SPONSORED LINKS Diesel engines Wood waste Wood waste basket Internal combustion engine Vegetable oil YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "wastewatts" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production of dieselmotorcycle to start.
That's the estimated price for the limited edition model. I don't know if the production model is going to be that price.I would be extremely surprised if the full production model is that pricey, since they are going to have to compete with Royal Enfield bikes already on the US market. I do know that the Kawasaki 650 ( the bike that the military model based on ), runs in the $ 6-7 K range ( as of last spring ). Greg H. - Original Message - From: Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 17:09 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production of dieselmotorcycle to start. MSR $18,999 ...Wait...what? Someone's kidding, right? ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production ofdieselmotorcycle to start.
I have an '76 Honda Trail Blazer with less than 1000 original miles on it, that I can't seem to get working. I and 2 others have worked on it, and none of us have been able to figure out why I can't get a spark at the plug, unless the wire in the sparkplug cable has a hidden break ( try and find a replacement sparkplug cable ). Greg H. - Original Message - From: Evergreen Solutions [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2006 21:13 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [wastewatts] FYI - US commerical production ofdieselmotorcycle to start. I guess my question is the proverbial why?, with the common sigh associated with the niche market of diesel vehicles in the US. If you can find one for 6k, give me a link please. I'm currently looking for a bike like the old 79cc honda my friend used to have for my girlfriend. And with 11 seconds to 60mph, that's good enough for someone who's driving it for economy but TERRIBLE for someone driving it for fun, or even safety. I've got an 82 kawasaki 440kz ltd, and I get 60mpg on gas and leave most cars in the dust. I paid $600 for it last year, complete w/ a spare motor, haha, and it's been fun rebuilding/resynching carbs and learning about the bike. In other news...I have a friend who built a trike out of an old harley frame and a VW diesel motor. I bet he doesn't have 18k into it...and it has reverse. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment
Mike, You have made a statement that really stands out as to how unreliable the science of magnetism really is. Ozone is now a proven technology for many things, including purification of water, while 30 years ago it was in the realm of junk science. Yet, after 30 years, magnets are still in the realm of junk science ( sounds good - maybe even possible, but no real proof ). One would think that thirty years would be plenty of time to establish the how and why it works and be accepted by the mainstream science community. Yet, magnets are still have not been proven by scientific trials. You mention trials by putting them on fuel pipelines, and watching the differences in the amount of wax build up, but, there is no proof in that. The amount of wax in fuel varies with the time of the year, and the particular fuel flowing through the pipeline.The same pipeline will handle ( in order of decreasing wax content ) heating oil ( Diesel #4 ), vehicle diesel in the summer( Diesel #2 ), vehicle Diesel in the winter ( Diesel #1 or a blend of #1 and #2 depending on how cold the area get's, that the fuel is going to ) and possibly kerosene depending on the area. A build up of wax that occurred when heating oil is being pumped through the pipeline, will dissolve when diesel #1 or kerosene is being pumped through the pipeline. Wax buildup is also more likely to occur during the late winter / early spring, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline is, the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax build up with the different fuels. Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, it is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment SNIP These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, which has moved from the realm of sudo science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking water supply systems. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic watertreatment
Until you take the human influence ( conscious or subconscious ) and other variables from the results, there is no way to do any conclusive scientific test.Without any conclusive scientific testing, there is no proof. Just because there are cars on the road that use magnets, and they appear to work, is no teat or proof that they work.The owners could very easily be subconscious be easier on the throttle, which in turn make it appear that the magnets are indeed working.One can just as easily say that Mutually Assured Destruction worked, so it is a good thing to have nuclear weapons. NOT. Just because something appears to work, does not mean that it actualy does, unless conclusive scientific testing - that eliminates any other possible variables as the actual reason for the improvement, proves it does. *** Sorry Keith, but, it's time for the pro-magnet crowd to put up verifiable testing or cut the yacking about something that is not proven to work - we may as well be talking about Zero point energy, cold fusion, or perpetual motion machines *** Greg H. - Original Message - From: Andres Secco [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 14, 2006 6:28 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic watertreatment Greg, My experience is totally different and disagree with your concepts of no real proofs. There are thousands of cars, cooling towers and boilers running with magnets with very good results. Better fosil fuel yield no fouling are the reported results. Of course if someone wants to pasteurize or sterilize water is unlikely to do it with magnets. Magnets do not make miracles but say that there is a waste of time to use them is too much. - Original Message - From: Greg and April [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Monday, February 13, 2006 11:40 AM Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditionersandmagnetic water treatment Mike, You have made a statement that really stands out as to how unreliable the science of magnetism really is. Ozone is now a proven technology for many things, including purification of water, while 30 years ago it was in the realm of junk science. Yet, after 30 years, magnets are still in the realm of junk science ( sounds good - maybe even possible, but no real proof ). One would think that thirty years would be plenty of time to establish the how and why it works and be accepted by the mainstream science community. Yet, magnets are still have not been proven by scientific trials. You mention trials by putting them on fuel pipelines, and watching the differences in the amount of wax build up, but, there is no proof in that. The amount of wax in fuel varies with the time of the year, and the particular fuel flowing through the pipeline.The same pipeline will handle ( in order of decreasing wax content ) heating oil ( Diesel #4 ), vehicle diesel in the summer( Diesel #2 ), vehicle Diesel in the winter ( Diesel #1 or a blend of #1 and #2 depending on how cold the area get's, that the fuel is going to ) and possibly kerosene depending on the area. A build up of wax that occurred when heating oil is being pumped through the pipeline, will dissolve when diesel #1 or kerosene is being pumped through the pipeline. Wax buildup is also more likely to occur during the late winter / early spring, time frame after a long period of cold temps have cooled down the soil that the pipeline runs through - granted, at the depth the pipeline is, the temperature difference would only amount to a few degrees, but, even a few degrees, can make a difference, with a increase or decrease in wax build up with the different fuels. Without controlling the variables, other that using or not using magnets, it is not a verifiable test, nor is it scientific by any means. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike McGinness [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Sunday, February 12, 2006 18:25 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] So called magnetic fuel conditioners andmagnetic water treatment SNIP These same magnets are sold for magnetic water conditioning. So is ozone, which has moved from the realm of sudo science in the USA 30 years ago, to a point now where it is used instead of chlorine in nearly 50% of US drinking water supply systems. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ __ Visita http://www.tutopia.com y comienza a navegar más rápido en Internet. Tutopia es Internet para todos
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
I tried it and was getting a whopping 2.5 KB/sec, but that still would have been better than 4 days to download. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 7:34 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals Hi Kirk Nice finds! Thanks. This one seems to be in Christmas Island - cx - and it's very slow! Downloading the 650Mb CD is an appealing prospect, but not at 1kb/sec and then it stalls. I'll try again tomorrow. Thanks for the blacksmithing manuals link too, I started doing some blacksmithing a few months ago, I did what I set out to do and the results are good, but I've got lots to learn. Regards Keith A wealth of how-to/gardening/energy manuals -- including the whole collection ready to burn to disk (at top) http://sleekfreak.ath.cx:81/3wdev/CD3WD/INDEX.HTM ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
Keith, I just found this bit of info ( below ), at a different part of the web site. Greg H. Update 27 February 2006 - DOWNLOADS are about to become easier! We are now victims of our own success - people are trying to download the complete CD3WD product at such a rate that our systems are creaking, downloads are very slow, and sometimes/often fail before completion. In order to fix this problem with our zero budget, we will be issuing downloads (which are still free and will remain free in perpetuity) through www.download.com - which as you may know is a major global download site with tremendous capacity and infrastructure - as of about 12 March 2006. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2006 17:16 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals Damn, so it's not just me then, that's a pity. You'd expect a bit of speed with a name like sleekfreak, not very streamlined. I'll keep trying though, there are some books there I've been after for awhile. Thanks Greg Best Keith ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals
Here is other Tech - know how - stuff by the same group, 5 CD's in this case. http://www.cd3wd.com/HDL/index.htm Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, March 07, 2006 13:56 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] A wealth of manuals Update 3 March - DOWNLOADS have been temporaily suspended! Sorry - we are suspending downloads temporarily, since the bandwidth load was too great, and has been adversely affecting browing. http://www.cd3wd.com/CD3WD/ Whoa! ...Mike ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown
I doubt it. The lignin is harder to break down than the other sugars, so the other sugars are broken down first. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Rich To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 18, 2005 20:56 Subject: [Biofuel] Lignin crop redidue breakdown I am looking at the second chapter of Mother Earth Alcohol Fuel -Raw materials chapter athttp://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_motherearth/meCh2.html#2_1. At the "Crop Residue" part, it says: "The "backbone" of sugar and starch crops -- the stalks and leaves -- is composed mainly of cellulose. The individual six-carbon sugar units in cellulose are linked together in extremely long chains by a stronger chemical bond than exists in starch. As with starch, cellulose must be broken down into sugar units before it can be used by yeast to make ethanol. However, the breaking of the cellulose bonds is much more complex and costly than the breaking of the starch bonds. Breaking the cellulose into individual sugar units is complicated by the presence of lignin, a complex compound surrounding cellulose, which is even more resistant than cellulose to enzymatic or acidic pretreatment. Because of the high cost of converting liquefied cellulose into fermentable sugars, agricultural residues (as well as other crops having a high percentage of cellulose) are not yet a practical feedstock source for small ethanol plants. Current research may result in feasible cellulosic conversion processes in the future." I am also looking at Stu Campbell's book "LET IT ROT! The gardener's guide to composting, Revised edition. My question is since composting does a good job of breaking down lignin, would it be possible to use composting as part of the ethanol creation process? ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
What number do you consider to be the handful ? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:45 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program snip Our military is laughable -our pilots litterally have to take turns flying the handfull of aging f-18's in the air force. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program
Some quick checking shows that Canada has at least 80 CF-18's that were upgraded in the2003/2004 time frame and are in the process of being upgraded again to US Navy specs. Canada had at one time ( current status unknown ), CF-5's which is still a hot little aircraft, in some respect's comparable to a F-16 without all the extra fancy stuff ( and at almost half the cost of a combat ready F-16 ). The US Air Force still uses the T-38, which is nothing more than a striped F-5 used to teach pilots how to fly. A updated version is known as the F-20 Tigershark (1 engine instead of 2 isabout the biggestdesign change ). If you are interested ( and I get some time ), I know a book at the library that can give a better picture of current Canadian fighters. Greg H. BTW, better than 90% of the aircraft at Davis Monthan AFB, are not service ready, but are in storage ( it takes at least1 month to put a singleaircraft into action once put into storage and most take 2 or more months), andmostof those are way out of date. Some of thoseare providing parts and equipment to keep other aircraft flying. Others are rebuilt for drone duty ( which much of the time means they are shot out of the air ), or for testing of equipment.I doubt thatDavis Monthan AFB, could even defend it's self if attacked. Talk about hanging onto old junk, the bone yard still has aircraft from the Korean war. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 14:50 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program I admit I don't know the exact number of aircraft in readiness status, who does? They do some funky stuff that the americans are embarrased and envious they didn't think of themselves like painting a mock canopy on the underbelly which fakes out the enemy and confuses the hell out of americans who can't decide which way they are turning in combat so maybe that counts as having two planes for every one?? They are still hanging on to a bunch of ancient junk as well like the sea king, but I do know that Canadian pilots take a tour flying a desk simply because there aren't enough planes to go around. In comparison the US pilots have their names painted beside the canopy on 'their' machine. What term would you use when comparing the number of servicable Canadian fighter aircraft to the number in the US arsenal? They've got a ferkin desert full of almost servicable ones in reserve as well down in Tucson I've seen them.Sorry if I've offended any Canadians, I know our military is proud my father was air force and I also know that Canadian pilots regularly out 'score' americans in training exercises but are you going to tell me we have any chance of even bluffing our way through a conflict with the US?Get real.JGreg and April wrote: What number do you consider to be " the handful "? Greg H. - Original Message - From: "Joe Street" [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 7:45 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Iran's Nuclear Program snip Our military is laughable -our pilots litterally have to take turns flying the handfull of aging f-18's in the air force. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Alternative to Toxic Mold Compounds?
Why use synthetic molds? Why not use classic greensand or plaster molds? It's something that highschool kids can do. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, August 26, 2005 8:11 Subject: [Biofuel] Alternative to Toxic Mold Compounds? I know that this may fall outside the scope of our usual discussions but, I thought there might be knowledge to gain here. In the process of building a prototype solar tracker, I'm stuck with a dilemma. Some of the parts I make need to be molded. So, I'm making silicone based molds and casting the parts with two-part polyurethane. According to the MSDS sheets, the catalyst for the silicone mold is a tin-based compound and very toxic. The reason I started in this directionis that it's readily available, widely used and proven to work. When finished, I can cast parts in almost any material. I can even pour low melt temperature metals. I would liketo make/use a casting material from something which is safer to me and the environment and still be durable and weather-proof. I was making pasta the other night and found (the next morning) a couple of pieces of spaghetti, dried and conforming to the shape of the colander. It made me wonder if there is a casting materiel made of carbohydrates and /or starch that I can use with a latex rubber mold. Any thoughts? Mike ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] (no subject)
Use the Yellow can, for BioDiesel. The reason for the color difference of the can, is so someone will not mistake it for gasoline ( red ) or kerosene ( blue ).I know, you would check, but, it doesn't mean someone else will. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Scott Yancey [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, August 25, 2005 14:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] (no subject) I'm pretty new here. Hello all: Question: 1. Is there a requirement to use a red gas can for biofuel (yellow for diesel)? 2. How does an apartment dweller create fuel in his or her small space? Scott ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] New Biodegradable Polymers
I wonder what they would get if they tried it with BioDiesel? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Keith Addison [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 24, 2005 12:47 Subject: [Biofuel] New Biodegradable Polymers STORY LEAD: New Citric Acid-Based Polymers for Agricultural Applications ___ ARS News Service Agricultural Research Service, USDA Sharon Durham, (301) 504-1611, [EMAIL PROTECTED] August 24, 2005 --View this report online, plus any included photos or other images, at www.ars.usda.gov/is/pr ___ A biodiesel fuel byproduct called glycerol and an agricultural commodity called citric acid can be chemically combined to produce biodegradable polymers that could be used in produce packaging and other products, according to Agricultural Research Service scientists. Justin Barone, a chemist at the ARS Environmental Quality Laboratory in Beltsville, Md., made the discovery while studying processes for improving the effectiveness of insecticides that contain citric acid as an active ingredient. Citric acid washes away very quickly in the environment, limiting its effectiveness. Barone found that molecules containing hydrogen and oxygen--such as glycerol, sorbitol or polyethylene glycol--reacted with citric acid to produce polymers with citric acid groups in them. The materials formed are biodegradable polyesters. Further study showed that the viscosity of the material can range from the consistency of paint to a slow-to-dissolve, glasslike product, depending on how the chemical reaction takes place. The new biodegradable polymers may provide the biodiesel industry with a new use for glycerol, which is now disposed of after the biodiesel is made. In addition, citric acid is used in the food industry as a retardant to browning in cut fruits and vegetables. The new citric acid-based polyesters may prove useful as a packaging material. Studies are under way to determine whether the new polymers would work as well as pure citric acid in these applications. ARS is the U.S. Department of Agriculture's chief scientific research agency. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft
Perhaps you would like to share the secret with us uninformed. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 6:09 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Linux, virii and Microsoft You can make a perfectly decent router/firewall with a 486. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I sorry as all get out for the folks in New Orleans. But New Orleans is a city that should have never been built. I'll disagree with one point, that the government was responsible for all the problems. I believe it's the folks of New Orleans, that started the canals and drainage ditches ( and allowed the city exist to the point that it became an important enough port to cause congress to pass the various act's and laws that accelerated city's sinking to it's present level ), should carry the larger burden of guilt. Since I first learned of the below sea level issues surrounding New Orleans, I have often wondered if the U.S. would be better served by letting go of the present location of the city, and rebuilding in a location better suited for a city. Several times I have tried to tally the total preventive and running maintenance cost of trying to prevent, what has now happened in New Orleans, but, have failed each time.With the millions spent each year, the total must be in the billions by now.And now they have to rebuild virtually the entire city? I always wonder if the city is worth what it would take to move it or ( recalling Popular Science articles ), build a floating city, that would be anchored in place and float on top of the swampy soil. http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/technology_watch/1284346.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/transportation/1289186.html http://www.popularmechanics.com/science/defense/1281531.html It is not like they couldn't do it so it can let a hurricane blow over ( and under in the case of storm surge ) them, the technology is now available just look at the gulf coast oil platforms. I think it is going to be interesting to see, how many people and companies leave the area, because the cost of rebuilding ( not to mention insurance ) will be to high. How many more hurricanes will it take for New Orleans to wake up to it's problems? Greg H. - Original Message - From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, August 30, 2005 22:08 Subject: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? I live in South Florida, on high(ish) ground. Katrina came past and gave my neighborhood a little slap, on her way out to the warm gulf waters, where she organized into a cat 5 hurricane. Now 1.5 million people are homeless, jobless, and in shock, just from New Orleans alone. There's no guessing how many will be dead when all is accounted for. Entrepreneurs and businesses have always gone where the resources are. Regular folks follow behind because that's where the jobs are. Government comes along and surrounds a swamp with levees, and calls it a city. http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0603feat.html And of course the Army Corps of Engineers comes along and turns 2000 miles of winding bottomland river into a 1000 mile ditch, contained (theoretically) by 14 meter levees. Homes, factories, and farms fill the bottomland right up to the levies. In a free society, you can't prevent people from trying to turn a swamp into a suburb, unless you buy the land and turn it into park or preserve. Ever since agriculture started on the Nile, we've known that flood plains are great places to grow crops, so you don't really want to take them out of production. Of course if you dam off the river, the plain is no longer renewed, topsoil leaches away, and the land starts to sink even lower. Then there are lots of places in this country where the ONLY justification for building homes is gorgeous location, like Miami Beach and all the other sandbars on our Atlantic coast, or the muddy, fire prone hills above Los Angeles. People have to find work, they have to live where they work. New Orleans grew where it did because it was a handy place for a port that served the Mississippi, there was rich fishing in the gulf, it was marginally drier than much of the wetland around it. But, like Venice, it's been sinking since it was built, http://www.pubs.asce.org/ceonline/ceonline03/0603feat.html and just like the proverbial frog in a slowly heating kettle, few have ever decided it was time to get out. But you can't expect to live below sea level next to a sea, or on a flood plain, or a sand bar, or a muddy hillside, or a dry pine forest, and be safe. Should governments issue building permits in swamps? Should insurance companies write fire policies on wooden houses in pine forests? Flood policies on swamps and flood plains? Should governments try to control mighty rivers from headwaters to delta, destroying wetlands and the buffering swamp? Should governments dredge millions of tons of sand back onto the beaches of Miami every time a hurricane scours them out? Do citizens have a right to settle in the path of disaster? Does government have an obligation to make extraordinary efforts to save them from that disaster? Whether we ever get New Orleans dry again, or not, perhaps it
Re: [Biofuel] chicken manure
My dad told the story about one of his collage buddies that got a 3 month old Cadillac for $50, because the previous owner went out to the desert and committed suicide in it, and was not found for many days.. He striped the car down to bare metal, sand blasted the entire thing, and rebuilt it with an all new interior, but, still got rid of the car because the smell remained. Good luck. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Todd Hershberger [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 7:28 Subject: [Biofuel] chicken manure I am trying to turn an old chicken house into a biodiesel workshop. The odor is disgusting because the chicken waste and dead chickens were left for years. I've cleaned it out and left the doors open. Does anyone have any ideas how to deodorize the old chicken shed? Should I be concerned about mold or spores? Thanks, Todd ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] chicken manure
I have no idea, but, some of the ways that Myth Busters test myths, leaves allot to be desired. Greg H. - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:46 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] chicken manure Didn't mythbusters test that very urban myth last season? jh ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
They do, but, from my understanding, most of the low laying areas are rural. I don't know of any hurricanes that have hit the Netherlands as well, Louisiana has a ongoing history of them. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:41 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? I think they live below sea-level in the Netherlands too? People have to live somewhere. We do the best we can with the tools we have. OK, back to finding energy -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of TarynToo Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 1:12 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Hi, Juan and Greg On Aug 31, 2005, at 10:18 AM, Juan Gutierrez wrote: People, were there first and form there own local governments before the feds showed up. besides aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves or do you want the feds or corporate bigwigs telling you where you should live. I live in South Florida also where is this High(ish) ground you speak of its all swamps west of Miami. And Greg wrote: I'll disagree with one point, that the government was responsible for all the problems. I believe it's the folks of New Orleans, that started the canals and drainage ditches ( and allowed the city exist to the point that it became an important enough port to cause congress to pass the various act's and laws that accelerated city's sinking to it's present level ), should carry the larger burden of guilt. I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking only of the feds. When I said governments did this or that, I was speaking of all levels of government, including the first settlers of Louisiana, who started public works to drain and protect the city. Once a family has lived in the same vulnerable place for a few generations, are the grandkids culpable for the parents mistakes? If a family moves to Louisiana because that's where they can make a decent living and try to improve their circumstances, they're trapped in Hobson's choice, http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/12/23.html, can we so blithely say aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves? Regarding high ground in SE Florida, The ridge line (such as it is) that the Florida East Coast Railroad runs along is generally the highest ground south of Orlando. I'm about a kilometer west of it, about 3 meters above sea level. The major factors that led me to this house were: high ground, sturdy construction, good shutters, and fairly good schools. (All Florida schools are sub-par, but these were better than most.) Our neighborhood seldom has standing water even in the heaviest rains, but only another km west of here, the drained swamp often floods. Bright Blessings on all, and especially to those facing a terrifying future in the gulf states, Taryn ornae.com P.S. Kim, Love your Sig. Just wanted to borrow it once. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.or g Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
They are culpable, if they continue their parents mistakes.Indeed they should have a better grasp of just how bad things are. Last night on the news, they interviewed a family that elected to stay in their home, even though the water was almost to the top of their front porch and an evacuation had been declared.The family kept telling the reporter to tell the officials to turn on the pumps.In that case my sympathy is for the kids in that family that couldn't leave because the adults were trying for a Darwin award. I have to wonder how many companies would move to New Orleans, if people refused to move there.There are many places to work that don't have the combined problems of below sea level living and hurricanes.Wamsutter WY is paying oil riggers a starting salary of $50,000 a year ( and they want more ), but, it doesn't have the party atmosphere that New Orleans does , after all, the estimated population, in 2003, is less than 1000. Greg H. - Original Message - From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? SNIP I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking only of the feds. When I said governments did this or that, I was speaking of all levels of government, including the first settlers of Louisiana, who started public works to drain and protect the city. Once a family has lived in the same vulnerable place for a few generations, are the grandkids culpable for the parents mistakes? If a family moves to Louisiana because that's where they can make a decent living and try to improve their circumstances, they're trapped in Hobson's choice, http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/12/23.html, can we so blithely say aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves? Regarding high ground in SE Florida, The ridge line (such as it is) that the Florida East Coast Railroad runs along is generally the highest ground south of Orlando. I'm about a kilometer west of it, about 3 meters above sea level. The major factors that led me to this house were: high ground, sturdy construction, good shutters, and fairly good schools. (All Florida schools are sub-par, but these were better than most.) Our neighborhood seldom has standing water even in the heaviest rains, but only another km west of here, the drained swamp often floods. Bright Blessings on all, and especially to those facing a terrifying future in the gulf states, Taryn ornae.com P.S. Kim, Love your Sig. Just wanted to borrow it once. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
I have no issue with those that TRIED to do something to help them selves and still got into trouble. BUT I do have issues with those that did NOTHING ( despite all the warnings ) to help them selves then expect the government and everyone else to drop what their doing and save them, because they would rather buy a case of beer, than a bus ticket. I have major issues with adults that through their stupidity and ignorance killed their kids, like I said on another list: My heart breaks, for the kids that had no choice because their parents were to stupid, to even try to get out of the way, and I curse those parents for risking their kids life.If I had a say in the matter, I would bring each and everyone of them up on charges of child endangerment.. I had a guy on that list try and tell me that they had no warning that the hurricane was going to be that bad, after I showed him the forecast and warnings posted by The National Hurricane Center.He then asked me how these people were supposed to get these warnings off the internet when the people had no power, then I showed him that the warnings that Katrina was going to grow stronger were posted Even As The Hurricane Was Leaving The Florida Coast It's one thing to break into a store to get food and water to survive after a disaster, after your supplies have run out, it's another thing entirely to, steal TV's, VCR's, DVD's, potato chips, soda and the like, because no one is around. I am on a budget, yet I still managed to put together three 55 gal plastic drums of water, and a few hundred pounds of wheat, beans, powdered milk, butter powder, white and brown sugar, honey, dry fruit, vitamins.I have used salvaged building materials ( most of which didn't cost a thing ) to build a safe room. Greg H. - Original Message - From: bob allen [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 7:17 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Howdy Greg, you seem a little hard on those who didn't evacuate. I can think a couple reasons to stay put. The evacuation went well for those with cars, as all roads were open to outgoing traffic. But what about those with our a car? What are they supposed to do, walk to Arkansas? So for those without vehicles or money to get on a bus, they walk to the superdome. Last I heard the roof leaks, toilets aren't working, gunshots have stopped the evacuation to the Astrodome. Meanwhile if you did walk, wade, or swim to the superdome, your home and all your possessions are left now to not only the elements, but also the looters. I am not sure what I would of done if in their situation, but I certainly have sympathy for their dilemma. Greg and April wrote: They are culpable, if they continue their parents mistakes.Indeed they should have a better grasp of just how bad things are. Last night on the news, they interviewed a family that elected to stay in their home, even though the water was almost to the top of their front porch and an evacuation had been declared.The family kept telling the reporter to tell the officials to turn on the pumps.In that case my sympathy is for the kids in that family that couldn't leave because the adults were trying for a Darwin award. I have to wonder how many companies would move to New Orleans, if people refused to move there.There are many places to work that don't have the combined problems of below sea level living and hurricanes.Wamsutter WY is paying oil riggers a starting salary of $50,000 a year ( and they want more ), but, it doesn't have the party atmosphere that New Orleans does , after all, the estimated population, in 2003, is less than 1000. Greg H. - Original Message - From: TarynToo [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? SNIP I'm sorry if you thought I was speaking only of the feds. When I said governments did this or that, I was speaking of all levels of government, including the first settlers of Louisiana, who started public works to drain and protect the city. Once a family has lived in the same vulnerable place for a few generations, are the grandkids culpable for the parents mistakes? If a family moves to Louisiana because that's where they can make a decent living and try to improve their circumstances, they're trapped in Hobson's choice, http://dictionary.reference.com/wordoftheday/archive/2003/12/23.html, can we so blithely say aren't people ultimately responsible for themselves? Regarding high ground in SE Florida, The ridge line (such as it is) that the Florida East Coast Railroad runs along is generally the highest ground south of Orlando. I'm about a kilometer west of it, about 3 meters above sea level. The major factors that led me to this house were: high ground, sturdy construction, good shutters, and fairly
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Were you inquiring 'bad' as in micro-organisms or 'bad' as to taste? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:51 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Thanks for the info Emil. I remember now reading of the silver coin in water from another thread. Somehow I think it sounds kind of weird though. We use untreated well water and I could stand a bit of chlorine in an emergency. Usually we have some water supply interruption during Winter. It is reassuring to have a palatable water supply stored. Better safe than sorry. Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Yes. If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous natural occurrences ( quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, blizzards and the like ), and make preparations for them. Like I said in another post: I have no issue with those that TRIED to do something to help them selves and still got into trouble. BUT I do have issues with those that did NOTHING ( despite all the warnings ) to help them selves then expect the government and everyone else to drop what their doing and save them, because they would rather buy a case of beer, than a bus ticket.. Dams fail, if people are not willing to accept that they may only have 5 min warning to get to higher ground, and may lose everything they should not live below a dam. If people are going to fly, they need to take it upon them selves to find out what kind of aircraft they are going to be flying on and find out if that model of aircraft has a good history of flight safety, and then take the personal responsibility to accept that sometimes the one in a million chance actualy happens. If one looks at the past one can see that a given area is subject to hurricanes and should prepare accordingly. If you live below sea level near a coast, expect the fact that you have a chance of getting flooded.If you live within 50 ft of sea level near a coast, expect that the tidal surge could very well reach you. Empathy?My empathy is for the kids that couldn't leave because of ignorant parents and for the people that tried and still failed.Not for someone that bought a case of beer, instead of a 5 gal bucket of water that could save their life. 7 MRE's can keep a person alive for 2 weeks, and cost about the same as a case of beer. If people would pay attention when the experts tell them not to expect help after a disaster for at least 72 hrs, they would be allot better off putting the money to a 72 hr kit than spending it to drink that stupid beer.With a little ingenuity, 72 hr kits are not expensive nor are they hard to put together, I have put several together for my family. If I had to leave the house: I can with 5 min notice, keep my family of 4 going for 24 hrs. With 20 min notice, I can keep my family going 72 hrs, with some shelter. With an 1 hour notice, I can keep my family going for more than 2 weeks in some comfort. With 1 day of notice, I can hook up with a couple of friends and my 2 sisters, and live comfortably for a month with out any other assistance. If I don't have to leave the house, I'm good for 1 month in the winter, and 4+ months in the summer. I do not live in a flood plain. I have a little multi-fuel stove, that can burn any liquid fuel, and a fireplace that can burn any solid fuel ( I have a little wood stove I could install in a day or so ), to cook food. I scrounged most of the materials and built a safe room in the basement. I have three 55 gal barrels filled with water, plus enough containers for another 500 gal of water ( and that is not counting the 55 gal water heater ). I have a chain saw and enough fuel to keep it going for a week strait. I also have a 5ft cross cut timber saw, a couple of axes, a maul and some splitting wedges, and know how to make wood wedges ( done it several times when my metal wedges were stuck or not available ). I'll say it now: If anyone on this list, would like help putting together a 72 hr kit, I would be more than happy to give any help I can! In part it's a little like learning to make BioDiesel because the DinoDiesel is running out. Just remember, is going to be extremely hard to put one together, during an emergency, so do it before it occurs. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Would you feel the same way if people died in quakes in Japan or California? What about Sri Lanka? How about a plane crash, dam breech, eruption or tornado? Some empathy here would be nice. No one is perfect. No one can predict the future. Regards, Emil ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
There are a few tricks to keeping water fresh. 1)Use distilled water.If you start with a sanitized barrel, and fill it with distilled water, there is nothing to 'go bad'. 2) Rotate it every 6-8 months. 3)Bubble air through it before use.Water really doesn't go bad unless something wasn't clean to begin with, but, it can go flat.We are used to drinking water with some air dissolved into it, but, with water just sitting around, the air will eventually escape from the water. 4)Remember that a doctor can cure a water born disease, but, he can not cure a case of death by dehydration. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:36 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? SNIP How do you keep stored water fresh? Brian ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
Yes, and he was shut down because governments panicked. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:38 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). snip Fun stuff! Pulse jets are not just for the military anymore! There is even a guy talking about building his own personal cruise missile. =-O Talk about civil disobedience!JoeMichael Redler wrote: I've been researching the feasibility ofbuilding a biofuelturbojet engine. Apparently, it's not as far fetched as one might think. I'm still unsure of thermal efficiency and if it's competitive with other cycles. In theory, it should be. Has anyone done similar research? MikeNick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "Nick" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:00:46 -Subject: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Don and John have both built fine shaft engines so there is no reason why you can't build yourself an auxilliary generator. You should be abe to use a very small gas generator perhaps couple to the turbine of a slightly larger turbo. replace the compressor with a step down gearing and into a generator see what John has built here... http://www.nickhaddock.co.uk/jetgallery.htm Nick :-)--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Has anyone attached a fan w/shaft after the cumbustor as a power take off and has anyone used a turbojet for power generation. If this is feasible I'd like to build a small auxiliary generator. If I get a lot of "thumbs down" on that idea, that's OK too. It was just a thought. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
I'm not surprised. When did you send the money? That guy was stepped on big time by Big Brotherafter 9-11. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Peter Morgan To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Just to warn you all...I sent my money to New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml And did not get my stuff ! Best Regards From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Date:Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:11:39 -0400Brian Rodgers wrote: You guys are a trip. LOL there is no stopping some people.Here you will like this one for alternative transportationhttp://www.aeros-uk.co.uk/html/jetbug.htmlIt can burn biodiesel!!Joe This info has been some of the most entertaining reading I have done in years. Starting with: Build your own junkyard turbine http://www.junkyardjet.com/primitive.html New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml I then went to see what Joe was talking about with:coanda effect and the ferroelectric effect. very cool stuff: Using The Coanda Effect In A Pulsejet: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/coanda.shtml http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/coanda.htm Thank you for 'making my day" Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] B100 and jet fuel
The short answer is no. The long answer is, BioDiesel does not have to BTU's of jet fuel ( jet fuel is a highly refined cozen to jet fuel with allot of BTU's per gal ), nor does it have the ability to take the low temperatures that jet fuel would encounter at altitude. These things are workable, but, then you have to carry more fuel, and less cargo, and heated fuel tanks and fuel lines.This adds weight and costs to every aircraft, that is unacceptable.Jet travel is also one of the least efficient forms of transportation there is.Using biodiesel would only make it more inefficient. Greg H. - Original Message - From: des [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel List Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 8:46 Subject: [Biofuel] B100 and jet fuel A neighbor who recently retired from the airline industry has been asking me lately if there's a biofuel that can be substituted for jet fuel, and although I didn't know at the time, I've done some research since, and see that jet fuel is a variant of diesel. Any one out there know what kind of variant jet fuel is of diesel, (I seem to understand that it resembles kerosene) and can jet fuel be grown? doug swanson (in Ellijay, GA, not far from Atlanta GA, where gas prices spiked up to $6.00/gal. for a few hours yesterday) -- All generalizations are false. Including this one. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * This email is constructed entirely with OpenSource Software. No Microsoft databits have been incorporated herein. All existing databits have been constructed from recycled databits. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
That's where you are wrong Todd. For many things I am still at the bottom of the heap, and freely admit it. For other things I have learned from other peoples mistakes, and admit to that too. Other things I learned from my own mistakes, nothing wrong with that either. Simply put, I refuse to be a totaly hopeless victim and try to plan accordingly. I am on a budget just like many of those people.I have been stuck alone in a blizzard 4 days without any contact with the outside or food other than 2 cans of soup and a few crackers that I had with me, so you can not say that I haven't been on a roof top , and don't know what it's like. Preparations can be made if you make the effort. I made the effort, it can be done. There is always something that can be done. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:27 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? You know Greg, Sometimes doing nothing is the best that anyone can do. I guess it's been a long time since you've been at the bottom of the heap, having few or no options and nothing much else available to you other than hope that it gets no worse. I wonder what roofs you'd have been standing on if you were in some of those persons situations. But instead of you attempting to understand what the worst of worst situations could be, even before any calamity, I suppose we get to listen to you going on, issuing more of the same thoughtless mimickery as if everyone in the world has been afforded the same opportunities as you. Simply put? Your superiority complex, arrogance and carelessness are showing. Todd Swearingen ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).
I think you are right, but, that doesn't help him right now. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 15:12 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). The jury is still out on that. They had no legal grounds for shutting him down (last I heard)JoeGreg and April wrote: Yes, and he was shut down because governments panicked. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2005 11:38 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). snip Fun stuff! Pulse jets are not just for the military anymore! There is even a guy talking about building his own personal cruise missile. =-O Talk about civil disobedience!JoeMichael Redler wrote: I've been researching the feasibility ofbuilding a biofuelturbojet engine. Apparently, it's not as far fetched as one might think. I'm still unsure of thermal efficiency and if it's competitive with other cycles. In theory, it should be. Has anyone done similar research? MikeNick [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]From: "Nick" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2005 16:00:46 -Subject: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Don and John have both built fine shaft engines so there is no reason why you can't build yourself an auxilliary generator. You should be abe to use a very small gas generator perhaps couple to the turbine of a slightly larger turbo. replace the compressor with a step down gearing and into a generator see what John has built here... http://www.nickhaddock.co.uk/jetgallery.htm Nick :-)--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Michael Redler [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi everyone, Has anyone attached a fan w/shaft after the cumbustor as a power take off and has anyone used a turbojet for power generation. If this is feasible I'd like to build a small auxiliary generator. If I get a lot of "thumbs down" on that idea, that's OK too. It was just a thought. Mike ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...butfirst, your opinions (please).
I think it was in mid 2004 that the US gov, leaned on the NZ gov, claiming that the information that he was giving out was causing a terrorist threat. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Peter Morgan To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:08 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...butfirst, your opinions (please). It was about 4 months ago, no luck contacting anyone, next time I am in NZ, I will be sure to drop in though...lol From: "Greg and April" [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...butfirst, your opinions (please).Date: Thu, 1 Sep 2005 13:05:11 -0600 I'm not surprised. When did you send the money? That guy was stepped on big time by Big Brotherafter 9-11. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Peter Morgan To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 12:21 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please). Just to warn you all...I sent my money to New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml And did not get my stuff ! Best Regards From:Joe Street [EMAIL PROTECTED]Reply-To:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgTo:Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject:Re: [Biofuel] Cross Posted: Fwd: [DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like to try something...but first, your opinions (please).Date:Thu, 01 Sep 2005 09:11:39 -0400Brian Rodgers wrote: You guys are a trip. LOL there is no stopping some people.Here you will like this one for alternative transportationhttp://www.aeros-uk.co.uk/html/jetbug.htmlIt can burn biodiesel!!Joe This info has been some of the most entertaining reading I have done in years. Starting with: Build your own junkyard turbine http://www.junkyardjet.com/primitive.html New pulse jet engine http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/xjet.shtml I then went to see what Joe was talking about with:coanda effect and the ferroelectric effect. very cool stuff: Using The Coanda Effect In A Pulsejet: http://www.aardvark.co.nz/pjet/coanda.shtml http://jnaudin.free.fr/html/coanda.htm Thank you for 'making my day" Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelis
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
No you shouldn't be dumped from the list. Let's me see if I can put it in terms of your reactor. If a guy down the street designed a reactor, and it caught fire. 2 months later he builds it again, and it catches fire again. Who is at fault? A different person hearing about biodiesel decides to build the same type of reactor, despite hearing about the fires, and that one catches fire.Who would be at fault? A third person finds out about BioDiesel and builds this reactor design, and it catches fire. Who is at fault? And a 4th person and a 5th person and so on, and most of the times the reactor designs catch fire.Who is at fault for the fires? Ok now it is common knowledge that this reactor design is likely to catch fires sooner or later. What about if after the fires, you built the same design, despite being warned many times that this is a dangerous design? Who's fault would it be, that your reactor caught fire and burned down your house, and your wife or kid ended up with 2nd degree burns because of it? How do you think the people that warned you would feel, that they warned you, but, you failed to listen?Would they feel sorrier for you that your reactor burned down or sorrier for the person that ended up with the 2 degree burn?I think so. How would you feel, if you know a person was warned that a reactor design was dangerous, many times, before they built it, and they still built it? What about after the reactor burned down and someone was injured or killed because the warnings were not heeded?Sure, you would feel bad, that it happened, but, you would also be angry, because the hurt and the pain need not have been as severe if some precautions were taken. I hurt, that it happened, but, in many ways I am extremely angry with the situation, because I know, without any doubt, that it need not have been that bad ( or be as bad as it is ) had more people been prepared, or taken more steps to be prepared for the worst.Not just with individuals, but, with the city of New Orleans, for it sure does not look like they had any comprehensive disaster plan.And if anybody should have had a plan in place to deal with a worst case scenario, they should have.The state is just as guilty, they knew how bad it could get for years, heck I knew for 15 years that this could happen, so did many other, and the warnings were out there.Unfortunately it always starts with the individuals, because, it almost always takes at least 72 hrs to really get people and supplies moving to those that needs it. What am I doing about it? It doesn't matter, because someone could claim I'm making it up, and how would I prove a negative wrong? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 13:37 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? You can either shrug it off or have compassion for a fellow human being. Put yourself in their place for a second (empathy). They are pleading for help even though you think they might not deserve it (have mercy). That's what drew me to this list in the first place; sharing information freely to help each other. We generate a synergy of ideas here greater than any one person. If my reactor catches fire because I made a stupid mistake, should I be dropped from the list? What I feel when I read your posts doesn't seem to fit. It bothers me. I'm sorry. Regards, Emil -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg and April Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:47 PM To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Yes. If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous natural occurrences ( quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, blizzards and the like ), and make preparations for them. Like I said in another post: I have no issue with those that TRIED to do something to help them selves and still got into trouble. BUT I do have issues with those that did NOTHING ( despite all the warnings ) to help them selves then expect the government and everyone else to drop what their doing and save them, because they would rather buy a case of beer, than a bus ticket.. Dams fail, if people are not willing to accept that they may only have 5 min warning to get to higher ground, and may lose everything they should not live below a dam. If people are going to fly, they need to take it upon them selves to find out what kind of aircraft they are going to be flying on and find out if that model of aircraft has a good history of flight safety, and then take the personal responsibility to accept that sometimes the one in a million chance actualy happens. If one looks at the past one can see that a given area is subject to hurricanes and should prepare accordingly. If you live below sea level near
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
No. I'm saying that when specialist from the field of meteorology say it's going to be a bad storm and they should evacuate coastal areas,people should believe them. I'm saying that when specialist from the field of geology say thata any break in the levies would put 20 feet ( or more ) of water in parts of New Orleans, people should believe them. I'm saying that whenspecialist from the field of disaster relief and disaster preparedness, say not to expect any direct help from the government for the first 72 hrs after a disaster, people should believethem. That is what I'm am saying. What you are hearing from meis not a matter of expressingless sympathy as the results ofmatters gettingworse, but, of extremefrustration on my part, from knowing, that part of this suffering, did not have to happen, had more planning been done. " People don't plan to fail. People justfail to plan ". The more suffering I'm hearing about, themore frustrated I am getting. I am extremely frustrated about the whole situation, and there is not much more I can do, other than I have already done, ( other than to warn other's )and I don't like it one little bit. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 14:54 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Whatever happened to "From Each According To His Abilities, To Each According To His Needs"? ...oh, I forgot. That never really caught on in the US (sorry, couldn't help myself). So Greg, when you say stuff like " "If people would pay attention when the experts tell them..." Are you saying that we should scold them first, then help them? Maybe you mean that they "made their bed" and now they should "lay in it" as the saying goes. "If people would pay attention when the experts tell them..." You mean like, civil servants, in uniform like the police or something. That's the funny part Greg. Those "experts" have been barking ordersat some of the people down there for decades. You would think that they would listen and maybe trust them when they say something. By the way, ...ever watch Mississippi Burning? ...great movie! I'm sure that there is a percentage of people who have exercised poor judgment. Who hasn't exercised poor judgment?The irony here ishow youexpress less sympathy as the suffering from those mistakes gets worse. Mike"Manzo, Emil" [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can either shrug it off or have compassion for a fellow human being.Put yourself in their place for a second (empathy). They are pleadingfor help even though you think they might not deserve it (have mercy).That's what drew me to this list in the first place; sharing informationfreely to help each other. We generate a synergy of ideas here greaterthan any one person. If my reactor catches fire because I made a stupidmistake, should I be dropped from the list? What I feel when I read yourposts doesn't seem to fit. It bothers me. I'm sorry. Regards,Emil-Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED][mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Greg andAprilSent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:47 PMTo: Biofuel@sustainablelists.orgSubject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?Yes.If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous naturaloccurrences ( quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, blizzards andthelike ), and make preparations for them.Like I said in another post:"I have no issue with those that TRIED to do something to help themselvesand still got into trouble.BUT I do have issues with those that did NOTHING ( despite all thewarnings ) to help them selves then expect the government and everyoneelseto drop what their doing and save them, because they would rather buy acaseof beer, than a bus ticket.".Dams fail, if people are not willing to accept that they may only have 5minwarning to get to higher ground, and may lose everything they should notlive below a dam.If people are going to fly, they need to take it upon them selves tofindout what kind of aircraft they are going to be flying on and find out ifthat model of aircraft has a good history of flight safety, and thentakethe personal responsibility to accept that sometimes the one in amillionchance actualy happens.If one looks at the past one can see that a given area is subject tohurricanes and should prepare accordingly.If you live below sea level near a coast, expect the fact that you haveachance of getting flooded. If you live within 50 ft of sea level nearacoast, expect that the tidal surge could very well reach you.Empathy? My empathy is for the kids that couldn't leave because ofignorant parents and for the people that
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Why not Sony? Greg H. - Original Message - From: John Hayes [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:56 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? I prefer Blaupunkt over Pioneer, but my friend prefers Aiwa. Anything is better than Sony. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Silver, chlorine, etc. (was Katrina..
Brian, How is your electrical supply?The reason I ask, is that I have an idea, but, it requires electricity to use. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Brian Rodgers [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 6:14 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Silver, chlorine, etc. (was Katrina.. This is better. I am isolated here for the long weekend at the ranch with no high speed Internet (poor me, I know) no media either, but that is a choice. Anyway, the Katrina thread was a bit much for me as I have no idea what is happening down there on the Gulf Coast.It does sound awful, but I have wonder if the media isn't making it look even worse than it really is. Don't know, I am here not there. Back to the silver copper as oxidisers in water. I think that my fear of stagnant water comes directly from my wife who has had Legionnaires disease. She of course does not trust water older that a few weeks. Coincidentally she has a teaching degree in biology and she leans toward bleach. Of course bleaching our stored drinking water is out of the question. Yuk. Then the idea of using hydrogen peroxide, it never occurred to me to use it for anything except cleansing wounds. Once again you all get me thinking more. I will run these ideas by my gal. Thank you. Brian Rodgers ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
There is an ant and the grasshopper thing going on here. Yes in the story, the grasshopper ends up singing for his supper, but, what do we do in the real world? Now, I'm not saying that all of the people in NO are bad and I agree that the people need help, but, how doyou help, without rewarding, the bad behavior of the people that are doing the bad things? In the news reports I have seen, the people just don't know what to do. It is said that just sitting around doing nothing, but, thinking how bad things are,is psychologically bad. Do you start forming work groups, to start cleaning up the mess or handing out supplies,thus helping the people to help themselves? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Michael Redler To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 7:04 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Being apologetic doesn't change the fact that these kinds of generalizationsexpress a kind of discrimination that, at best has no value and at worst becomes the seed for something worse. MikeGarth Kim Travis [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Greetings,No one but you has brought up any stereo types. If you honestly believe that everyone who has been injured by this storm is an innocent bystander, then enjoy your rose colored glasses. Most of us feel anger that children died because their parents would not heed warnings. We never said that every child's death was it's parents fault, or anything like that. However, in the world I live in, there are people who expect others to do for them, what they should be doing for themselves. It is sad that their children have paid an ultimate price for their behavior.Bright Blessings,Kim ___Biofuel mailing listBiofuel@sustainablelists.orghttp://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.orgBiofuel at Journey to Forever:http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.htmlSearch the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages):http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] rockets, turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please).
Let me guess, potassium chlorate and sugar, cooked like candy to the hard crack stage on a candy thermometer? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Alt.EnergyNetwork [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 15:26 Subject: [Biofuel] rockets,turbines and compressed air..was..[DIYGasTurbines] Re: I'd like totry something...but first, your opinions (please). Hi all, I used to be fascinated by this stuff when I was a kid and used to do a lot of pyro with building solid fuel model rockets. My friends and I would mix the materials on the kitchen stove and pour the molten fuel into cardboard tubes to harden around an cone shape at the bottom of the tube. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Silver, chlorine, etc. (was Katrina..
UV would be my first choice if the electrical systemcould take it. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Joe Street To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 11:05 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Silver, chlorine, etc. (was Katrina.. Right so you throw a chunk of silver in your cistern and put an ozonizer or UV in the delivery line close to the point of use. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame?
Mike, I have been looking at the pdf link, in your post, and I am not understanding your reference. Could you please elaborate? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 20:03 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? I want to build my 2 million dollar dreamhouse on the beach and make the taxpayers foot the bill when it gets flattened. See: http://www.fema.gov/cis/DE.pdf Rehoboth Beach is almost all on a barrier island. It's nuts to build there, and nuts to keep paying to put the houses back. But I guess the money is better spent than being used in Iraq. Greg and April wrote: Yes. If people live in an area, they should learn of dangerous natural occurrences ( quakes, tornadoes, hurricanes, tidal waves, blizzards and the like ), and make preparations for them. Like I said in another post: I have no issue with those that TRIED to do something to help them selves and still got into trouble. BUT I do have issues with those that did NOTHING ( despite all the warnings ) to help them selves then expect the government and everyone else to drop what their doing and save them, because they would rather buy a case of beer, than a bus ticket.. Dams fail, if people are not willing to accept that they may only have 5 min warning to get to higher ground, and may lose everything they should not live below a dam. If people are going to fly, they need to take it upon them selves to find out what kind of aircraft they are going to be flying on and find out if that model of aircraft has a good history of flight safety, and then take the personal responsibility to accept that sometimes the one in a million chance actualy happens. If one looks at the past one can see that a given area is subject to hurricanes and should prepare accordingly. If you live below sea level near a coast, expect the fact that you have a chance of getting flooded.If you live within 50 ft of sea level near a coast, expect that the tidal surge could very well reach you. Empathy?My empathy is for the kids that couldn't leave because of ignorant parents and for the people that tried and still failed.Not for someone that bought a case of beer, instead of a 5 gal bucket of water that could save their life. 7 MRE's can keep a person alive for 2 weeks, and cost about the same as a case of beer. If people would pay attention when the experts tell them not to expect help after a disaster for at least 72 hrs, they would be allot better off putting the money to a 72 hr kit than spending it to drink that stupid beer. With a little ingenuity, 72 hr kits are not expensive nor are they hard to put together, I have put several together for my family. If I had to leave the house: I can with 5 min notice, keep my family of 4 going for 24 hrs. With 20 min notice, I can keep my family going 72 hrs, with some shelter. With an 1 hour notice, I can keep my family going for more than 2 weeks in some comfort. With 1 day of notice, I can hook up with a couple of friends and my 2 sisters, and live comfortably for a month with out any other assistance. If I don't have to leave the house, I'm good for 1 month in the winter, and 4+ months in the summer. I do not live in a flood plain. I have a little multi-fuel stove, that can burn any liquid fuel, and a fireplace that can burn any solid fuel ( I have a little wood stove I could install in a day or so ), to cook food. I scrounged most of the materials and built a safe room in the basement. I have three 55 gal barrels filled with water, plus enough containers for another 500 gal of water ( and that is not counting the 55 gal water heater ). I have a chain saw and enough fuel to keep it going for a week strait. I also have a 5ft cross cut timber saw, a couple of axes, a maul and some splitting wedges, and know how to make wood wedges ( done it several times when my metal wedges were stuck or not available ). I'll say it now: If anyone on this list, would like help putting together a 72 hr kit, I would be more than happy to give any help I can! In part it's a little like learning to make BioDiesel because the DinoDiesel is running out. Just remember, is going to be extremely hard to put one together, during an emergency, so do it before it occurs. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Manzo, Emil [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:33 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Katrina slams New Orleans. Is There Blame? Would you feel the same way if people died in quakes in Japan or California? What about Sri Lanka? How about a plane crash, dam breech, eruption or tornado? Some empathy here would be nice. No one is perfect. No one can predict the future. Regards, Emil
Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost
He spent the day on the ground today, walking parts of New Orleans, and Mississippi. Just like 9/11, it was a few days after it happened. Greg H. - Original Message - From: Mike Weaver [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Friday, September 02, 2005 20:45 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] How New Orleans Was Lost Thanks. I personally can't believe all he did was fly by in his jet and look down. This is a catastrophe far worse than 9/11 and all he does is a fly by? I can't even get started on Iraq because I don't want to get wound up right now. Hakan Falk wrote: Mike, LOL, you did a very good joke, I liked it. Hakan At 16:53 02/09/2005, you wrote: Whine whine. At least he caught Osama Bin Laden, just like he promised. Hakan Falk wrote: Taryn, You must admit that he killed many more in Iraq for the money, he is responsible for those death also, maybe he call that efficiency instead. More killed for the money. I can guarantee that the pictures of devastated people that we now see from Orleans, have been going on for many years in Iraq. So it is not only Bush fault, he only raised the bar and achieved much more in shorter time frame. When media show the desperation among the Iraqi people, it is not many who cares, maybe Orleans will create more of compassion for the country that US occupy. The homes that are destroyed and people killed in Iraq, are 100's times more than Orleans. Hakan At 08:38 02/09/2005, you wrote: Wow, nice catch Bede, Fits right in with is there blame? I just love to blame stuff on Bush and his cronies. Except...I'm not sure that all the kings men could have put Orleans together again. Certainly, having pissed away the country's emergency resources, Bush is responsible for many of the deaths in La and Ms. Kinda like stupid kids who empty the fire extinguishers in school. But I think Katrina, and years of head-in-the-sand development is what drowned Orleans. taryn http://ornae.com/ On Sep 1, 2005, at 9:16 PM, Bede wrote: http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article10062.htm How New Orleans Was Lost By Paul Craig Roberts 09/01/05 Antiwar -- -- Chalk up the city of New Orleans as a cost of Bush's Iraq war. There were not enough helicopters to repair the breached levees and rescue people trapped by rising water. Nor are there enough Louisiana National Guardsmen available to help with rescue efforts and to patrol against looting. The situation is the same in Mississippi. The National Guard and helicopters are off on a fool's mission in Iraq. The National Guard is in Iraq because fanatical neoconservatives in the Bush administration were determined to invade the Middle East and because incompetent Secretary of Defense Rumsfeld refused to listen to the generals, who told him there were not enough regular troops available to do the job. After the invasion, the arrogant Rumsfeld found out that the generals were right. The National Guard was called up to fill in the gaping gaps. Now the Guardsmen, trapped in the Iraqi quagmire, are watching on TV the families they left behind trapped by rising waters and wondering if the floating bodies are family members. None know where their dislocated families are, but, shades of Fallujah, they do see their destroyed homes. The mayor of New Orleans was counting on helicopters to put in place massive sandbags to repair the levee. However, someone called the few helicopters away to rescue people from rooftops. The rising water overwhelmed the massive pumping stations, and New Orleans disappeared under deep water. What a terrible casualty of the Iraqi war one of our oldest and most beautiful cities, a famous city, a historic city. Distracted by its phony war on terrorism, the U.S. government had made no preparations in the event Hurricane Katrina brought catastrophe to New Orleans. No contingency plan existed. Only now after the disaster are FEMA and the Corps of Engineers trying to assemble the material and equipment to save New Orleans from the fate of Atlantis. Even worse, articles in the New Orleans Times-Picayune and public statements by emergency management chiefs in New Orleans make it clear that the Bush administration slashed the funding for the Corps of Engineers' projects to strengthen and raise the New Orleans levees and diverted the money to the Iraq war. Walter Maestri, emergency management chief for Jefferson Parish, told the New Orleans Times-Picayune (June 8, 2004): It appears that the money has been moved in the president's budget to handle homeland security and the war in Iraq, and I suppose that's the price we pay. Nobody locally is happy that the levees can't be finished, and we are doing everything we can to make the case that this is a security issue for us. Why can't the U.S. government focus on America's needs and leave other countries alone? Why are American troops in Iraq instead of protecting our own borders from a mass invasion by illegal immigrants? Why are
Re: [Biofuel] New Orleans mayor failed to use school buses for 4 days
Kirk, Where is the photo mentioned? Greg H. - Original Message - From: Kirk McLoren To: biofuel Sent: Sunday, September 04, 2005 10:55 Subject: [Biofuel] New Orleans mayor failed to use school buses for 4 days SNIP See photo below of flooded New Orleans school buses, which had been left sitting in the city parking lot /unused/ before the hurricane hit, because the mayor was too stupid to use them to help his own residents evacuate the city. See also the excerpt below the photo, from the Louisiana State Disaster Plan, authorizing cities to use local school buses and other forms of public transportation to evacuate residents.* ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
[Biofuel] Debatable statement?
True or False Underpowered vehicles can be just as inefficient as overpowered vehicles. Why or why not? Greg H. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement?
It's not Dolittle, or bombers that I know of, but I do know that Charles A. Lindbergh, taught P-38 pilots how to get the best of the long range capabilities of the P-38's in the pacific during the war. I find it interesting, and to the best of my knowledge, fuel economy is a concern of the list. Greg H. - Original Message - From: David Miller [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Biofuel@sustainablelists.org Sent: Tuesday, September 13, 2005 14:05 Subject: Re: [Biofuel] Debatable statement? Joe Street wrote: SNIP Someone - James Dolittle? made this famous during world war II. They had adjustable propellers on long range bombers, and they didn't have enough range to bomb some pacific islands. Jamie? Jimmy? showed them they could change the propeller settings and lug the engines down. Lowering the RPM on the engines (and increasing the BMEP of the engine) increased efficiency enough they could reach the island they wanted to bomb. Apologies to all for mangling the story - I forget the islands name but took the fuel efficiency lesson away. Hope someone finds it interesting; we've wandered a long ways away from biodiesel. I'll take it offline if anyone wants to talk more about it. --- David ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/ -- This message has been scanned for viruses and dangerous content by MailScanner, and is believed to be clean. ___ Biofuel mailing list Biofuel@sustainablelists.org http://sustainablelists.org/mailman/listinfo/biofuel_sustainablelists.org Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Search the combined Biofuel and Biofuels-biz list archives (50,000 messages): http://www.mail-archive.com/biofuel@sustainablelists.org/
