Re: [OSM-legal-talk] QA with a lawyer
On 12 May 2009, at 03:17, Peter Miller wrote: I have just concluded an email discussion with Jordan following our lawyers review of 1.0 who has answered some points but is now saying that he would need someone to pay him to answer more of them which leaves things in a rather unsatisfactory state given that I am not prepared to pay two lawyers to talk to each other! We have not had any response to the review from the OSMF council to date. Just to clarify, Peter, I spent some time this past Autumn reviewing the comments from your lawyer, for free, and sent to you privately. This spring, I've been focused on the new drafts of the ODbL / DbCL, and had less time to respond to specific comments, including from users who have been kind enough to share their legal advice with the community. As I also made clear in our email exchange, I'm happy to, within my resources, address issues that relate to the Open Data Commons project and not to you, Peter Miller, specifically. CC, for example, doesn't offer the level of detailed advice on use of their licenses on their site that you seek. My offer to meet with your lawyers (for a fee) was based on my opinion that there were several basic elements of open licensing in general, and the ODbL in particular, that your lawyer did not seem to understand. As such, I offered to meet with you and your counsel to go through them so that you both can have a better understanding of the issues present. Thanks again for your understanding. ~Jordan Mr. Jordan S Hatcher, JD, LLM jordan [at] opencontentlawyer dot com More details at: http://www.jordanhatcher.com Open Data at: http://www.opendatacommons.org ___ legal-talk mailing list legal-talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/legal-talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
In my part of Australia, we have a speed limit that applies to every non-rural street that is not specifically signed as being another speed - basically case (b) below. The wording used in the law is built up area. (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) Unfortunately, if that is the best they could come up with for that, then there probably isn't a good English word that covers it. Urban is close, but has connotations of the city centre, not the suburbs or villages. I think it's probably going to be the best, though. Stephen 2009/5/20 Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com: hi, currently there is a discussion on the german list about tagging speed limits respectively different zones. as there are implied also other things than maxspeed there are proposed three default zones, derived from the signs standing at every border crossing point: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. so this questions goes primarily to the native english speakers: what would be the right term for a value for these zones? a) motorway? this one would be very clear I think. b) in_town? place? urban? it's the thing we call geschlossene ortschaft in germany, which inludes everything from very small villages to really large cities (bounded by yellow squared signs in germany). c) out_of_town? rural? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 6:44 AM, Guenther Meyer d@sordidmusic.com wrote: hi, currently there is a discussion on the german list about tagging speed limits respectively different zones. as there are implied also other things than maxspeed there are proposed three default zones, derived from the signs standing at every border crossing point: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. so this questions goes primarily to the native english speakers: what would be the right term for a value for these zones? Motorway / Urban / Rural is the most translatable, IMHO. I'm not certain, but I think that it's Motorway / Built-Up / National in official language. Cheers, Andy a) motorway? this one would be very clear I think. b) in_town? place? urban? it's the thing we call geschlossene ortschaft in germany, which inludes everything from very small villages to really large cities (bounded by yellow squared signs in germany). c) out_of_town? rural? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Hi, recently we've had the same discussion in Czech list. The conclusion was to use 'place' for tagging areas where city speed limits apply. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:place The place key can also apply to an area (area) drawn around the perimeter of the place. It not specified otherwise this can be safely interpreted as the administrative border, area of within closed city driving rules and area of the postal-address of the city. Since we couldn't find any other tag mentioning 'driving rules' or 'speed limits' we agreed to use 'place=*'. Regards, Radek Cernoch Guenther Meyer píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 07:44 +0200: hi, currently there is a discussion on the german list about tagging speed limits respectively different zones. as there are implied also other things than maxspeed there are proposed three default zones, derived from the signs standing at every border crossing point: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. so this questions goes primarily to the native english speakers: what would be the right term for a value for these zones? a) motorway? this one would be very clear I think. b) in_town? place? urban? it's the thing we call geschlossene ortschaft in germany, which inludes everything from very small villages to really large cities (bounded by yellow squared signs in germany). c) out_of_town? rural? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. In Czech republic there are different rules for motorways inside city area (maxspeed=80) and outside (maxspeed=130). So case d) identifying a) is easy and if we are able to identify what is inside and outside city - b), we can identify roads and motorways inside/outside city. There was similar discussion on czech mailing list. One suggestion is to use administrative boundaries. There was suggestion to use landuse=residential, but that is not possible - often the city area is not corresponding to landuse=residential. Suggestion for administrative area is pretty good, but there are still some caveats - sometimes the boundary follow the road and in few cases, sign for end of village and sign for beginning of village from other side do not match (so basically, one side of the road is inside the village, while the other is not.) (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) Test for street lights won't work, many small villages in Czech. Rep. are signes as build-up area (with all the implied speed limits and such), but they don't have street lights at all. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
MP schrieb: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. In Czech republic there are different rules for motorways inside city area (maxspeed=80) and outside (maxspeed=130). So case d) identifying a) is easy and if we are able to identify what is inside and outside city - b), we can identify roads and motorways inside/outside city. There was similar discussion on czech mailing list. One suggestion is to use administrative boundaries. There was suggestion to use landuse=residential, but that is not possible - often the city area is not corresponding to landuse=residential. Suggestion for administrative area is pretty good, but there are still some caveats - sometimes the boundary follow the road and in few cases, sign for end of village and sign for beginning of village from other side do not match (so basically, one side of the road is inside the village, while the other is not.) Would be cool, if you can add your czech traffic-zones to the proposal. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trafficzone (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) Test for street lights won't work, many small villages in Czech. Rep. are signes as build-up area (with all the implied speed limits and such), but they don't have street lights at all. Martin street-lights as a mark of build-up areas works in UK and Australia and maybe some other Commonwealth-Counties. -- Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Hi, I would like to ask about the proposed feature 'trafficzone'. If I understand it right, it proposes to add a tag to _every_ highway and _every_ road in the city. I'm afraid that this solution is highly redundant in the amount of information and therefore it's likely that someone will forgot to add the right tag. In the Czech list we ended up with the following solution, which tries to copy the legislation (which is a good starting point, I guess): 1) Every road is by default 'rural' road (speed limit 90 km/h). 2) Every highway has speed limit 130 km/h by default. 3) If a road is inside a polygon tagging the city limits, then its speed limit is set to 50 km/h. Such polygon might be tagged by 'place', but the actual name of the tag is not important here. 4) If a road has different speed limit from rules 1) - 3), it is tagged with 'maxspeed=...'. By this scheme it's easy to set the speed limits right very quickly on most roads, because it only requires to add the polygon with 'place' tag (or any other name we agree on). At the same time you can set the speed limits as detailed as you want to. The default speed limits and rules can be set differently from country to country of course. For example in the Czech Republic, we would add a rule 3.1: for every 'trunk' road in the city polygon, limit is 80 km/h. And lastly the default rules differ for car/truck/... However we have not discussed other countries. Germany seem to be compatible with this system, but what about the rest of the world? Regards, Radek Černoch Mario Salvini píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 12:21 +0200: MP schrieb: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. In Czech republic there are different rules for motorways inside city area (maxspeed=80) and outside (maxspeed=130). So case d) identifying a) is easy and if we are able to identify what is inside and outside city - b), we can identify roads and motorways inside/outside city. There was similar discussion on czech mailing list. One suggestion is to use administrative boundaries. There was suggestion to use landuse=residential, but that is not possible - often the city area is not corresponding to landuse=residential. Suggestion for administrative area is pretty good, but there are still some caveats - sometimes the boundary follow the road and in few cases, sign for end of village and sign for beginning of village from other side do not match (so basically, one side of the road is inside the village, while the other is not.) Would be cool, if you can add your czech traffic-zones to the proposal. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/trafficzone (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) Test for street lights won't work, many small villages in Czech. Rep. are signes as build-up area (with all the implied speed limits and such), but they don't have street lights at all. Martin street-lights as a mark of build-up areas works in UK and Australia and maybe some other Commonwealth-Counties. -- Mario ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk -- Radomir Cernoch +44 750 708 8293 / +420 607 282 031 Email, Jabber: radomir.cern...@gmail.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:59:05AM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: In the Czech list we ended up with the following solution, which tries to copy the legislation (which is a good starting point, I guess): 1) Every road is by default 'rural' road (speed limit 90 km/h). 2) Every highway has speed limit 130 km/h by default. 3) If a road is inside a polygon tagging the city limits, then its speed limit is set to 50 km/h. Such polygon might be tagged by 'place', but the actual name of the tag is not important here. 4) If a road has different speed limit from rules 1) - 3), it is tagged with 'maxspeed=...'. That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. Often one driving through a city will pass one start of the place sign (with place name) and several times start of built up zone and end of built up zone before the end of the place sign. So we would need different polygons for built up zones than for place administrative boundaries (which are IMHO not less important, unless we want OSM be a road map only). Greets, Jacek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
Hi all, my name is Jehan. I am currently making a world tour. Making lastly a small part of my trip with some Mozilla guys (you can see me here: http://blogs.mozilla-europe.org/?post/2009/04/30/The-end-of-the-MECT-09 ), as they were recording the trip for Open Street Map, they gave me the idea to do the same. Why not. So I bought a GPSMap 60 CSx. Currently I configured it with the default track method. Record method: auto Interval: Normal And in data card setup, I checked log track to card data, so that I can simply use the GPS as a usb key where I find one gpx file for each use day. (this is easier for me especially because I use Linux, so I don't have to do anything special, nor to install the Garmin software to any borrowed computer with Windows which I may use...) Hence my question is simple: do you have any advice of how to maybe configure better the gps? Or is it good this way? (for info, I am on motorcycle, if ever this changes anything to the configuration) Moreover are they anything waypoints that are interesting for you to get? Do you have any suggestion of something which can be interesting for OpenStreetMap? Sorry I can imagine that many of my answers are probably answered in the wiki. But it is very difficult for me to get internet access. For instance I am right now in a public library with only a one-hour access right, in Greece (Thessaloniki). So I just imagine it is easier this way. Consider me as someone who wants to help, who has a GPS and will do what I can. So if you think anything from me can be interesting for OSM, just tell me. But if this implies to be able to connect internet often, then forget it. I will just connect sometimes to upload my gpx tracks and other infos I may have collected. One last question if anyone here is knowledgeable enough in electronics. The GPS is powered with AA batteries, which is good (I don't have often easily electricity plugs as I don't stay in hotels, most often). Yet sometimes it would be good that I could power it with my motorcycle battery, so that I don't buy batteries every 2 days. For cars, there is this accessory: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=527 My battery provides a 12v DC, as far as I know. So if I can just get this kind of female plug (that we see on photo) and if I plug it to my motorcycle battery, will it be enough? I don't want to burn my new GPS... Thanks all. Jehan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
2009/5/20 Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:59:05AM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: In the Czech list we ended up with the following solution, which tries to copy the legislation (which is a good starting point, I guess): 1) Every road is by default 'rural' road (speed limit 90 km/h). 2) Every highway has speed limit 130 km/h by default. 3) If a road is inside a polygon tagging the city limits, then its speed limit is set to 50 km/h. Such polygon might be tagged by 'place', but the actual name of the tag is not important here. 4) If a road has different speed limit from rules 1) - 3), it is tagged with 'maxspeed=...'. That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. Often one driving through a city will pass one start of the place sign (with place name) and several times start of built up zone and end of built up zone before the end of the place sign. So we would need different polygons for built up zones than for place administrative boundaries (which are IMHO not less important, unless we want OSM be a road map only). Greets, Jacek Could we not have different polygons for Speed Limited Zones. That may or may not be the same as the city limits. We could even tag these zones with maxspeed, So that when applying we don't have to go and look up what that means. The problem is if the zones overlap, which one applies? Speed limits tend to apply to zones not roads anyway, it just happens that most people only drive on the road. Oh and you will find Speed Limits on railway lines too, but weather any have been entered on OSM yet I'm not sure. Railway Speed limits in the UK seam to be in kph where as roads are in mph which I find a bit strange. Peter. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
This could look like this:
country(cz) {
maxspeed=90
(highway=motorway|trunk) {
maxspeed=130
foot=no
bicycle=no
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town) {
maxspeed=50
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town) (highway=motorway|trunk) {
maxspeed=80
}
}
the example is simplified from reality (there are different speed
limits for trucks/buses/etc...), but if we would have something like
this, it would help when building routing software. Perhaps some XML
could be used instead of these made-up C-like syntax :)
Also, I think in USA there are different limits in different states,
so we could have rules also for smaller regions than countries in few
cases.
Often one driving through a city will pass one start of the place sign
(with place name) and several times start of built up zone and end of
built up zone before the end of the place sign. So we would need
different polygons for built up zones than for place administrative
boundaries (which are IMHO not less important, unless we want OSM be
a road map only).
either use landuse=residential for these or some other tag specific to
poland (and perhaps countries with similar driving rules) and then use
rule like
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town)
is_in_polygon(landuse=residential || place=build_up_area) {
maxspeed=50
}
Martin
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Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 01:07:46PM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: Ok, I see the problem. Just to make sure there is no misunderstanding: In Poland the speed is restricted in the built up zone or in place? There is a set of general restrictions for built up zones and there are no general restriction for towns/cities. Though some places (even villages) may have own restrictions for their whole territory. Then a limit (like speed limit) sign is place together with the place name sign. Maybe the solution is to split 'place' and 'traffic_regulation' into 2 separate tags. In Poland, you would have 2 polygons, in CZ we would have 1 polygon with 2 tags. But then the proposed system is still applicable, isn't is? Yes, that looks sane. Maybe I should explain the situation in CZ is also a bit more: * The official administrative border does not affect traffic regulations and usually there are no signs for it. * The place is an area, whose boundaries have a sign near the road (a sign with Prague on it). This is the exactly the area, where you can't drive more than 50 km/h. * The built-up zone is not an official term for traffic regulations and therefore there are no signs for it. Speed limits aren't affected. Nevertheless in OSM we try to capture it by 'landuse=residental/...'. I would prefer not to overload landuse=residental with built-up area meaning, as used for traffic restrictions. In Poland there may be a built-up area where no one lives and houses out of any built-up area. But a zonal traffic restriction tag (whatever it would be) could still be added to any area (landuse=*, place=* or boundary=*). Greets, Jacek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
El Miércoles, 20 de Mayo de 2009, Jehan Pagès escribió: Hi all, Hi, Jehan, Maybe this question should go better in the newbies list rather than in the general one. Please have this in mind for other questions you might have. So I bought a GPSMap 60 CSx. Currently I configured it with the default track method. Record method: auto Interval: Normal [...] Hence my question is simple: do you have any advice of how to maybe configure better the gps? Or is it good this way? If you have a SD card in your Garmin, the best thing to do is to configure it to record one point per second (record method: time, interval: 1 sec). If you use a 1 GB card, you won't have to worry about downloading the tracks for months. One last question if anyone here is knowledgeable enough in electronics. The GPS is powered with AA batteries, which is good (I don't have often easily electricity plugs as I don't stay in hotels, most often). Yet sometimes it would be good that I could power it with my motorcycle battery, so that I don't buy batteries every 2 days. 1) Hold on to one or two packs of NiMh AA batteries. 2) Most (modern) garmins can be powered through a standard USB cable (try: connect to your computer, then get the batteries out). *Anything* that can convert 12V DC to 5V DC through a female USB plug will do. I think the best option is to visit your favourite motorcycle shop and say I want to use an USB thingie in my motorcycle. Cheers, -- -- Iván Sánchez Ortega i...@sanchezortega.es Un ordenador no es un televisor ni un microondas, es una herramienta compleja. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
Hi again, an additionnal question. As I said, I won't take time to use a computer, so I won't edit my own tracks, just upload them. But sometimes I may go down from the bike, use small foot only roads, etc. and I don't switch off the GPS. So it is in the uploaded tracks. Is it a big problem? Or can the editor make the difference (on foot, I go slowly, etc.)? Thanks again. Jehan 2009/5/20 Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com Hi all, [...] Jehan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
Jehan Pagès wrote: Sent: 20 May 2009 12:50 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor Hi all, my name is Jehan. I am currently making a world tour. Making lastly a small part of my trip with some Mozilla guys (you can see me here: http://blogs.mozilla-europe.org/?post/2009/04/30/The-end-of-the-MECT-09 ), as they were recording the trip for Open Street Map, they gave me the idea to do the same. Why not. So I bought a GPSMap 60 CSx. Currently I configured it with the default track method. Record method: auto Interval: Normal And in data card setup, I checked log track to card data, so that I can simply use the GPS as a usb key where I find one gpx file for each use day. (this is easier for me especially because I use Linux, so I don't have to do anything special, nor to install the Garmin software to any borrowed computer with Windows which I may use...) Hence my question is simple: do you have any advice of how to maybe configure better the gps? Or is it good this way? (for info, I am on motorcycle, if ever this changes anything to the configuration) Its better to set up the unit to record the maximum amount of data. Assuming you have a 2GB sd card in the unit then you can have many months of data at maximum 1 sec interval without running out of space. A 1 sec interval gives you the best clear indication of where you have been, ie all the subtleties of bends in the road etc. Simply change from Auto to Time and set the time interval to 1 sec. Thats about it for the tracks, nothing else to do. Turn on each day with a fresh set of batteries and hey presto you will have a nice long trace at the end of the day :-) Moreover are they anything waypoints that are interesting for you to get? Do you have any suggestion of something which can be interesting for OpenStreetMap? If you are on the bike you may struggle to set waypoints and note what they are. Perhaps easier to think of using a digital camera. Just set the camare time to the same as that of the GPS and its easy to sync with the JOSM editing software when you are back. As for what to gather, gather info on whatever you like, especially what you think would be useful to have on a map etc. Be guided by what you will naturally be interested in yourself. Its more fun that way. Sorry I can imagine that many of my answers are probably answered in the wiki. But it is very difficult for me to get internet access. For instance I am right now in a public library with only a one-hour access right, in Greece (Thessaloniki). So I just imagine it is easier this way. Consider me as someone who wants to help, who has a GPS and will do what I can. So if you think anything from me can be interesting for OSM, just tell me. But if this implies to be able to connect internet often, then forget it. I will just connect sometimes to upload my gpx tracks and other infos I may have collected. If you want others to help you edit as you go around, post again to the list and make a wiki page and others will help you. Uploading the GPS data is the first starter in doing that. One last question if anyone here is knowledgeable enough in electronics. The GPS is powered with AA batteries, which is good (I don't have often easily electricity plugs as I don't stay in hotels, most often). Yet sometimes it would be good that I could power it with my motorcycle battery, so that I don't buy batteries every 2 days. For cars, there is this accessory: https://buy.garmin.com/shop/shop.do?pID=527 Can't hep there, sorry. If you can recharge overnight then go for some high mha (2500 or above) batteries and keep a set or two spare. My battery provides a 12v DC, as far as I know. So if I can just get this kind of female plug (that we see on photo) and if I plug it to my motorcycle battery, will it be enough? I don't want to burn my new GPS... Thanks all. Jehan have a great trip and thanks for thinking about OSM :-) oh, and tell everyone about your trip via your user page diary. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
Jehan Pagès wrote: Sent: 20 May 2009 1:24 PM To: talk@openstreetmap.org Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor Hi again, an additionnal question. As I said, I won't take time to use a computer, so I won't edit my own tracks, just upload them. But sometimes I may go down from the bike, use small foot only roads, etc. and I don't switch off the GPS. So it is in the uploaded tracks. Is it a big problem? Or can the editor make the difference (on foot, I go slowly, etc.)? Thanks again. Jehan 2009/5/20 Jehan Pagès jehan.marmott...@gmail.com Hi all, [...] Jehan Editing GPS traces when you don't know what they relate to is difficult, but any GPS trace helps verify that there is a route, so don't worry about where you go wandering. Its easy to see the bits you do on the bike rather than on foot from the trackpoint spacing. Cheers Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Could we not have different polygons for Speed Limited Zones. That may or may not be the same as the city limits. We could even tag these zones with maxspeed, So that when applying we don't have to go and look up what that means. The problem is if the zones overlap, which one applies? Well, we can have layering (layer=-5 ... 5) like for any other tags, so we could have small zone with different limits within one large zone. For clashes with default rules from place=... and alike, we can define some rules of precedence (speed limits on individual ways have highest priority, followed by rules from speed limit zones, rules from place=..., then default country rules). And if zones with same priority overlap? Then it is bad mapping (as are typos like highway=residental or other bugs) and someone needs to fix it in the database. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
A safe and fairly reliable way is to run your GPS from NiMH rechargeable batteries. You can recharge these with a charger run from your bike electrics, or from the mains when you have it. It doesn't risk your GPS and it allows you to take the GPS off on foot. Cheers, Chris Jehan Pags wrote: Hi again, an additionnal question. As I said, I won't take time to use a computer, so I won't edit my own tracks, just upload them. But sometimes I may go down from the bike, use small "foot only" roads, etc. and I don't switch off the GPS. So it is in the uploaded tracks. Is it a big problem? Or can the editor make the difference (on foot, I go slowly, etc.)? Thanks again. Jehan 2009/5/20 Jehan Pags jehan.marmott...@gmail.com Hi all, [...] Jehan ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Well, we can have layering (layer=-5 ... 5) like for any other tags, so we could have small zone with different limits within one large zone. For clashes with default rules from place=... and alike, we can define some rules of precedence (speed limits on individual ways have highest priority, followed by rules from speed limit zones, rules from place=..., then default country rules). And if zones with same priority overlap? Then it is bad mapping (as are typos like highway=residental or other bugs) and someone needs to fix it in the database. And what about using 'multipolygon' relation? That is another possibility, though for nested zones you'll need two ways - one as inner side of the multipolygon and one as the nested zone. Though if inside the nested zone are default rules, or the bondary is not completely shared, using multipolygon could be better. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
MP píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:41 +0200: Could we not have different polygons for Speed Limited Zones. That may or may not be the same as the city limits. We could even tag these zones with maxspeed, So that when applying we don't have to go and look up what that means. The problem is if the zones overlap, which one applies? Well, we can have layering (layer=-5 ... 5) like for any other tags, so we could have small zone with different limits within one large zone. For clashes with default rules from place=... and alike, we can define some rules of precedence (speed limits on individual ways have highest priority, followed by rules from speed limit zones, rules from place=..., then default country rules). And if zones with same priority overlap? Then it is bad mapping (as are typos like highway=residental or other bugs) and someone needs to fix it in the database. And what about using 'multipolygon' relation? Radek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 02:16:05PM +0200, MP wrote:
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
This could look like this:
country(cz) {
maxspeed=90
(highway=motorway|trunk) {
maxspeed=130
foot=no
bicycle=no
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town) {
maxspeed=50
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town) (highway=motorway|trunk) {
maxspeed=80
}
}
I like this idea. This is much better that trying to force adding extra
tagging to OSM, when the information can be derived from existing tags.
Greets,
Jacek
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Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town? - b orders are different
On Wed, 20 May 2009 12:00:31 +0200, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: a) motorway: that's very clear, therea are no or very high limits. b) city areas with limited speed and some restrictions c) everything else, mostly out of town. In Czech republic there are different rules for motorways inside city area (maxspeed=80) and outside (maxspeed=130). So case d) identifying a) is easy and if we are able to identify what is inside and outside city - b), we can identify roads and motorways inside/outside city. I would like everyone to realise, that we are talking about 3 _different_ city-limits: a) the large administrative area that belongs to the city b) the area that has the given place in postal addresses c) the smaller area where driving rules for build up area apply Currently we have: * place-polygon or place-node without such a polygon and assumed radius * administrative area (admin_level) - maps easily to (b) * some landuse-polygons that have no direct relation to a b or c Marcus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Peter Childs wrote: Speed limits tend to apply to zones not roads anyway, it just happens that most people only drive on the road. Oh and you will find Speed I disagree. How would you define the zone in this example? http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/?zoom=13lat=51.3242lon=5.98173layers=BT The green roads are 50 km/h, the dark blue roads are 30. The 30 is a zone, but what zone are the 50 roads? Same problem with the red (80) and pale blue (60) roads. Maarten ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
In my part of Australia, we have a speed limit that applies to every non-rural street that is not specifically signed as being another speed - basically case (b) below. The wording used in the law is built up area. (In practice, the test for a built up area seems to be does it have street lights?.) From my experiences in the US and Ireland, I think there are two distinct concepts for speed limits. In the US (at least in mass), the speed limit is 30 mph (on unposted roads) if they are thicky settled, which is defined: Thickly settled or business district'', the territory contiguous to any way which is built up with structures devoted to business, or the territory contiguous to any way where the dwelling houses are situated at such distances as will average less than two hundred feet between them for a distance of a quarter of a mile or over. and 40 mph on other roads if not divided, and 50 if divided. In practice almost higher-speed roads are individually posted. This sounds like the Australian situation. In Ireland, there were signs on all roads leading into villages denoting a limit inside (50 kph?) and outside (100 kph?). While it seemed the signs roughly corresponded to built-up areas, it seemed clear that the rules were about inside/outside the signs, not about the inter-house distance. The tricky part about thickly settled is that adding a house can change the speed limit, with no sign. But I think that's irrelevant for OSM purposes. I think it makes sense to have polygons for formal speed zones, where one can see signs on the ground. For other roads, I think it will make more sense to work on a way to measure prevailing speeds from gpx and upload tags that represent what's typical. For residential roads that you don't use to get anywhere, having the speed tags right for routing doesn't matter much, and for through roads reality is more important than the posted rules. pgpNGdjGtDFrE.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, 20 May 2009 14:16:05 +0200, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote:
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
I already empoly such a schema in Traveling Salesman:
https://apps.sourceforge.net/mediawiki/travelingsales/index.php?title=TrafficRuleManager
http://travelingsales.svn.sourceforge.net/viewvc/travelingsales/trunk/osmnavigation/src/org/openstreetmap/travelingsalesman/navigation/traffic/
This could look like this:
country(cz) {
maxspeed=90
(highway=motorway|trunk) {
maxspeed=130
foot=no
bicycle=no
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town) {
maxspeed=50
}
is_in_polygon(place=city|hamlet|village|town)
(highway=motorway|trunk)
{
maxspeed=80
}
}
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/ outof town?]
On Wed, 20 May 2009 14:04:36 +0100, Radomir Cernoch radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote: MP píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:16 +0200: I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable way? Yes, surely! My personal idea of best solution is to use the Semantic wiki, because it provides both machine-readable and human-readable format in one place. Agreed. This sounds like a very good idea. It's even planned to shift OSM from MediaWiki to Semantic Wiki as soon as the wiki will be running on a more powerful hardware (I hope this information is not outdated). Radomír Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 14:04:36 +0100, Radomir Cernoch
radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote:
MP píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:16 +0200:
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
Yes, surely! My personal idea of best solution is to use the Semantic
wiki, because it provides both machine-readable and human-readable
format in one place.
Agreed. This sounds like a very good idea.
I think it sounds like a terrible idea.
A) We have a geo-database for geographic information
B) We have a wiki for project-support information
Why would this particular geo-data not live in the Geodatabase?
Let's take the very first bit of the example:
country(cz) {
How can I tell if a particular way is in the country cz? Maybe I
need a lookup table that gives me a list of coordinates to specificy
the boundary of that country. Should this be in the wiki too? Do we
have somewhere better for storing lists of coordinates?
So let's make the assumption we have an object (I'm guessing a
relation would be handy) for each country explaining where it is. Now
if only there was a way of assigning attributes to the country to hold
information that applied to that country. Geez, maybe we could allow
tags on relations?
Hmmm. Or maybe we should ditch the whole geo-db idea and just put
everything into a wonderful Semantic Wiki.
Cheers,
Andy
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Hi,
if only I knew that the idea would arouse so intense emotions! Ok, now I
know that I should be more careful with the word semantic next time.
Andy Allan píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:48 +0100:
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 14:04:36 +0100, Radomir Cernoch
radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote:
MP píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:16 +0200:
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
Yes, surely! My personal idea of best solution is to use the Semantic
wiki, because it provides both machine-readable and human-readable
format in one place.
Agreed. This sounds like a very good idea.
I think it sounds like a terrible idea.
A) We have a geo-database for geographic information
B) We have a wiki for project-support information
Why would this particular geo-data not live in the Geodatabase?
Let's take the very first bit of the example:
country(cz) {
How can I tell if a particular way is in the country cz? Maybe I
need a lookup table that gives me a list of coordinates to specificy
the boundary of that country. Should this be in the wiki too? Do we
have somewhere better for storing lists of coordinates?
Of course not.
So let's make the assumption we have an object (I'm guessing a
relation would be handy) for each country explaining where it is. Now
if only there was a way of assigning attributes to the country to hold
information that applied to that country. Geez, maybe we could allow
tags on relations?
I do not mind putting all this into the relations for each country.
However the question is, how complicated the whole system will be.
If we end up with 'speed_city', 'speed_rural' and 'speed_highway', then
why not. However there is a danger of ending up with tags like:
'speed_limit_on_highway_inside_polygon_tagged_place' or
'speed_limit_on_primary_not_in_any_polygon_tagged_place_or_built-up'.
This is an old problem of relational-database expressiveness. For now I
propose to wait until we collect all nitty-gritties of all different
traffic regulations we know. The discussion about implementation can
come second.
Hmmm. Or maybe we should ditch the whole geo-db idea and just put
everything into a wonderful Semantic Wiki.
When someone invents indexes into ontology, which would be as fast as
indexes into geo-db, why not? Personally I am rather sceptical about it.
;-)
Cheers,
Andy
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Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 3:22 PM, Radomir Cernoch radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, if only I knew that the idea would arouse so intense emotions! Ok, now I know that I should be more careful with the word semantic next time. Heh. It's mainly that I have a reflexive preference for geo-databases whenever I see the concept of spatial-intersection tests. And a dislike for putting machine-readable code into the wiki, semantic or not. I do not mind putting all this into the relations for each country. However the question is, how complicated the whole system will be. Don't over-plan for edge cases! Make the simple things simple and the complicated things possible. Cheers, Andy ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] 50 Days to SOTM 2009
If you are coming, you can twitter, email or shout about SOTM, using this new neat little link: http://bit.ly/2TDMvPhttp://bit.ly/2TDMvP ... or click it to register your place now. Mike State Of The Map 2009 The 3rd International OpenStreetMap Conference Amsterdam, July 10th-12th 209 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Map rendering
Hi All I'm trying to render some maps of my local area, and I followed the notes here: http://www.use-it.be/europe/docs/OSMmanual/ At the end, it says that you can remove features, by removing the rules from osm-map-features-z17.xml file. However, when I took out pubs, for example, they're still there when I render the map. (I'm trying to generate a simple map with just street names) Does anyone know where there's a guide to the osm-map-features-z17.xml file and how it all works? Cheers Mike ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Hello from a probably new contributor
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 In Thessaloniki, have you tried the free wifi spot in Kamara? (by the Municipality of Thessaloniki) I've not yet used wifi, so I don't know if that spot works. It's the one marked as free wifi spot: http://openstreetbugs.appspot.com/?lon=22.951868786577453lat=40.63235436322783zoom=18 -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.6 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iD8DBQFKFGrwmtKUasCeZwsRAperAJ9U+l+WZoiS3ju/840cQoyqbkImvACcC31i dzkyHLiO0Yk7CtDYV5a5Rtk= =97mA -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 09:05:45PM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: By traffic zone you mean a tag zone=XXX on each individual road in the city? I'm afraid that such system is very prone to forgotten tags. If you use a polygon around a city, you can also derive the source of the speed limit. Rules 1) - 3) mean that being on highway/in city/outside city is the main limitation. Applying rule 4) means there is a physical sign that causes the regulation. The problem with the polygon is that in Germany it perfectly possible to have streets within the city above the normal city limit and also below (very common). So once you put the polygon around the city you implicitly bring all streets to city level e.g. 50 although there might be loads of streets with 30 kph or 70 kph Yes, in the polygon system you would encircle the whole area and every road inside of it has automatically 30 km/h limit. Which is IMHO a very dangerous behaviour - i wouldnt want any fact be set without checking - so the limit explicitly set on every street is my favourable way. Sorry, I maybe didn't make myself clear. Polygon rules do not apply for motorways. Is there any country, where a highway inside a city has different speed limit from the highway outside of the city? Even if yes, this can be specified in the set of country-specific rules... I can imagine a situation, where a normal 50 km/h road goes through the middle of a zone-30. Then there are two options: 1) You split the zone-30 polygon into 2 polygons. 2) You tag the 50 km/h road with maxspeed=50. The problem with the polygon is that you set a default without checking every individual street. Id rather check all the individiual streets and tag them one by one when i am shure i have the correct fact. Its not calculating Pi where 3.1 might be acceptable for the start and later we calculate more digits. Flo -- Florian Lohoff f...@rfc822.org +49-171-2280134 Those who would give up a little freedom to get a little security shall soon have neither - Benjamin Franklin signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Satellite for OSM
Where did this idea go in the end? It seems the talk about it petered-out, or was some action agreed (along with who was going to undertake it)? On 18 May 2009, at 13:36, MP singular...@gmail.com wrote: In addition to actively pursuing further experiments for the MOD and BNSC, the consortium is also seeking new applications to which the technology can be applied. i.e. it's as much a research project as a commercial operation... so maybe your idea of let's just ask them could work. Perhaps they can give us some photography from times when the satellite is idle (moving over areas where nobody wants currently photography of them) either for free or at some reduced cost Sound great, but in the mean time we can of course buy commercial photography including the right to derive mapping at a cost of about $17 per sq km So if we manage to photograph over 2300 square km of area of our choice in the week of rented satellite, then the satellite would end up being cheaper (and more up to date) than commercial photography. I guess that could be worth it. Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch wrote: The idea is not to create a node here starts city and a node here ends the city. The idea is to create a polygon which defines the border of 50 km/h speed limit. The problem of forgotten end node, which causes cities to leak all over the planet, does not apply. Now we have an urban area, with a circular road with maxspeed=50, and streets and cul-de-sacs left and right of that road with maxspeed=30 zones. And that is just a simple example. The polygons are going to be complex in some cases. The problem now is that you cant actually work with polygons as for example a motorway could pass over a zone-30. Sorry, I maybe didn't make myself clear. Polygon rules do not apply for motorways. Is there any country, where a highway inside a city has different speed limit from the highway outside of the city? Even if yes, Yes. this can be specified in the set of country-specific rules... Don't focus on the highway-in-city bit. Focus on the $random_road_type with a different maxspeed bridges over (or tunnels under) a zone with another maxspeed bit. You'll have two zone polygons overlaying each other. I can imagine a situation, where a normal 50 km/h road goes through the middle of a zone-30. Then there are two options: 1) You split the zone-30 polygon into 2 polygons. 2) You tag the 50 km/h road with maxspeed=50. Right, exactly the scenario I mentioned at the top of this msg. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Lennard píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 00:01 +0200: Don't focus on the highway-in-city bit. Focus on the $random_road_type with a different maxspeed bridges over (or tunnels under) a zone with another maxspeed bit. You'll have two zone polygons overlaying each other. No, 'maxspeed' tag on a road does not imply a polygon with zone! There can be both in one place. Tag 'maxspeed' on a road is dominant and overrides any zonal restriction. However it's important to notice that two polygons can never overlap (unless there is a futuristic city with zone-30 area flying in the air above a 130 km/h highway). Now we have an urban area, with a circular road with maxspeed=50, and streets and cul-de-sacs left and right of that road with maxspeed=30 zones. And that is just a simple example. The polygons are going to be complex in some cases. I can imagine a situation, where a normal 50 km/h road goes through the middle of a zone-30. Then there are two options: 1) You split the zone-30 polygon into 2 polygons. 2) You tag the 50 km/h road with maxspeed=50. Right, exactly the scenario I mentioned at the top of this msg. I agree that the polygons are going to be complex. As complex as current 'landuse=residental' polygons or administrative border polygons or... I know it's pain to work with them, but the solution is to learn JOSM to split map into layers, not to adjust the data-model. Radek ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
I find this talk of overlapping polygons a bit boggling. Things seem far simpler: roads with an explicit speed tag use that tag. This represents the situation where the road has a sign and that's been entered. roads in a city center polygon that don't have a tag inherit from the polygon (in the routing program, or mkgmap). So as long as exception roads have speed tags, what's the problem? pgpJHJtpGNetm.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] (no subject)
I have found a lot of sources of map data after having a chat with the GIS guy at my workplace. I am curious if anyone can offer some suggestions or help me determine if this data can be imported to OSM. If so, can anyone help out getting this done? DNREhttp://ess.nrcan.gc.ca/mapcar/index_e.phphttp://geogratis.cgdi.gc.ca/geogratis/en/product/search.do?id=8147 SNBhttp://www.snb.ca/gdam-igec/e/2900e_1.asphttp://www.snb.ca/gdam-igec/e/2900e_1c.asp _ Internet explorer 8 lets you browse the web faster. http://go.microsoft.com/?linkid=9655582___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Andy Allan:
On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 2:26 PM, marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com wrote:
On Wed, 20 May 2009 14:04:36 +0100, Radomir Cernoch
radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote:
MP píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 14:16 +0200:
I wonder, can we have at some place (wiki?) some definition file that
will specify these per-country default limits in some machine-readable
way?
Yes, surely! My personal idea of best solution is to use the Semantic
wiki, because it provides both machine-readable and human-readable
format in one place.
Agreed. This sounds like a very good idea.
I think it sounds like a terrible idea.
A) We have a geo-database for geographic information
B) We have a wiki for project-support information
Why would this particular geo-data not live in the Geodatabase?
Let's take the very first bit of the example:
country(cz) {
How can I tell if a particular way is in the country cz? Maybe I
need a lookup table that gives me a list of coordinates to specificy
the boundary of that country. Should this be in the wiki too? Do we
have somewhere better for storing lists of coordinates?
one way would be, to check if the way is inside the cz-polygon.
the other way, which I think fits more into the osm style would be an
inclusion of the country.
for an ordinary rural street something like
zone:traffic = CZ:out_of_town
for example...
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Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Greg Troxel píše v St 20. 05. 2009 v 18:32 -0400: I find this talk of overlapping polygons a bit boggling. Things seem far simpler: roads with an explicit speed tag use that tag. This represents the situation where the road has a sign and that's been entered. roads in a city center polygon that don't have a tag inherit from the polygon (in the routing program, or mkgmap). Yes, this is exactly what I am trying to propose through the whole discussion! Originally the discussion was about _how_ to tag such polygon. Now we moved to _whether_ to have such polygons. Maybe we should give it a day or two... So as long as exception roads have speed tags, what's the problem? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Jacek Konieczny: That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. right. the same in germany. that's why we nedd to different zones: one like zone:traffic=... for speed limits and other legalities, and one, let's call it zone:administrative=... for the administrative border. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: Hi, I would like to ask about the proposed feature 'trafficzone'. If I understand it right, it proposes to add a tag to _every_ highway and _every_ road in the city. I'm afraid that this solution is highly redundant in the amount of information and therefore it's likely that someone will forgot to add the right tag. yes, this may be redundant, but I think it's the easiest way to tag and use these values. the other possibilities would be creating a polygon or a relation, but this seems to be rather complex to map and to use... In the Czech list we ended up with the following solution, which tries to copy the legislation (which is a good starting point, I guess): right. 1) Every road is by default 'rural' road (speed limit 90 km/h). 2) Every highway has speed limit 130 km/h by default. 3) If a road is inside a polygon tagging the city limits, then its speed limit is set to 50 km/h. Such polygon might be tagged by 'place', but the actual name of the tag is not important here. 4) If a road has different speed limit from rules 1) - 3), it is tagged with 'maxspeed=...'. sounds reasonable... By this scheme it's easy to set the speed limits right very quickly on most roads, because it only requires to add the polygon with 'place' tag (or any other name we agree on). At the same time you can set the speed limits as detailed as you want to. ...but you would need some kind of gis database/functions to evaluate the polygon data. the easy way of reading just keys and values like with most of the other features in the osm database would not be possible. signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Peter Childs: 2009/5/20 Jacek Konieczny jaj...@jajcus.net: On Wed, May 20, 2009 at 11:59:05AM +0100, Radomir Cernoch wrote: In the Czech list we ended up with the following solution, which tries to copy the legislation (which is a good starting point, I guess): 1) Every road is by default 'rural' road (speed limit 90 km/h). 2) Every highway has speed limit 130 km/h by default. 3) If a road is inside a polygon tagging the city limits, then its speed limit is set to 50 km/h. Such polygon might be tagged by 'place', but the actual name of the tag is not important here. 4) If a road has different speed limit from rules 1) - 3), it is tagged with 'maxspeed=...'. That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. Often one driving through a city will pass one start of the place sign (with place name) and several times start of built up zone and end of built up zone before the end of the place sign. So we would need different polygons for built up zones than for place administrative boundaries (which are IMHO not less important, unless we want OSM be a road map only). Greets, Jacek Could we not have different polygons for Speed Limited Zones. that was one of the first ideas on the german list, too. but the zones (at least in germany) imply besides the maxspeed also other things like parking restrictions, minimum possible speed and the like, so a more general zone tag would be better... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town? - borders are different
Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb marcus.wolsc...@googlemail.com: I would like everyone to realise, that we are talking about 3 _different_ city-limits: a) the large administrative area that belongs to the city b) the area that has the given place in postal addresses c) the smaller area where driving rules for build up area apply right. those three are totally independent things, and should be treated as such; meaning three different polygons or keys... signature.asc Description: This is a digitally signed message part. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thursday 21 May 2009 00:30:13 Radomir Cernoch wrote: However it's important to notice that two polygons can never overlap (unless there is a futuristic city with zone-30 area flying in the air above a 130 km/h highway). Now we have an urban area, with a circular road with maxspeed=50, and streets and cul-de-sacs left and right of that road with maxspeed=30 zones. And that is just a simple example. The polygons are going to be complex in some cases. I can imagine a situation, where a normal 50 km/h road goes through the middle of a zone-30. Then there are two options: 1) You split the zone-30 polygon into 2 polygons. 2) You tag the 50 km/h road with maxspeed=50. Right, exactly the scenario I mentioned at the top of this msg. I agree that the polygons are going to be complex. As complex as current 'landuse=residental' polygons or administrative border polygons or... I know it's pain to work with them, but the solution is to learn JOSM to split map into layers, not to adjust the data-model. You are still missing the point! The road network is a 3D network. Your 2D polygons can't model the fact that traffic zones are not 2D, but chunks of that 3D network. It is completely possible for a village ringroad on a bridge (highway=primary or secondary) to have a maxspeed of 80 km/h due to being outside the build-up zone, not because there is a sign on it that says 80 km/h. It is also possible at the same time for the road under that bridge to have a maxspeed of 50 km/h due to being inside the build-up zone. The point of the bridge has one lat/lon, but the roads are vertically separated. This will never fit in any 2D model. -- m.v.g., Cartinus ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 00:51 +0200: Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Jacek Konieczny: That would not work very well in Poland. Town/city/village administrative border usually differ from the built up zone borders. right. the same in germany. that's why we nedd to different zones: one like zone:traffic=... for speed limits and other legalities, and one, let's call it zone:administrative=... for the administrative border. Hi, this sounds reasonable. But is there a difference between boundary=administrative and zone:administrative=*? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] [Fwd: Re: zones for motorway/in town/outof town?]
Guenther Meyer píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 00:49 +0200: Am Wednesday 20 May 2009 schrieb Radomir Cernoch: ...but you would need some kind of gis database/functions to evaluate the polygon data. the easy way of reading just keys and values like with most of the other features in the osm database would not be possible. I have read somewhere (a few weeks ago) that querying whether a point lies in a country can be done quickly. I was assuming that the same should be possible for any polygon. However I am not aware of technical details. Can anyone confirm this, please? Radek Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
...but you would need some kind of gis database/functions to evaluate the polygon data. the easy way of reading just keys and values like with most of the other features in the osm database would not be possible. for more advanced use of OSM data you need function in which polygons does this point/way belong anyway (you need it to find out in which country/city/suburb/place you are) so I don't consider it such a big problem. But probably OSM could use a special handling for these polygons, as currently OSM API will return polygon only if one of its nodes is inside the requested area. It won't return polygons if entire request area is inside it. (It won't return even way that lies partially inside, but all of its nodes are outside - like line crossing the edge of request area) This is problem even with current data - if you request part of map inside city centre of large city, you won't get the city borders. Same applies for any large landuse/natural areas, like big lakes, forests, etc ... or administrative boundaries Martin ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Cartinus píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 01:01 +0200: It is completely possible for a village ringroad on a bridge (highway=primary or secondary) to have a maxspeed of 80 km/h due to being outside the build-up zone, not because there is a sign on it that says 80 km/h. It is also possible at the same time for the road under that bridge to have a maxspeed of 50 km/h due to being inside the build-up zone. The point of the bridge has one lat/lon, but the roads are vertically separated. This will never fit in any 2D model. I do not think I am missing the point. Your situation would be handled like this: 1) There is 1 polygon with a tag zone-50. 2) The road under the bridge has only 1 tag highway=residental. 3) The ringroad over the zone-50 has 2 tags: highway=primary and maxspeed=80. [There is _no_ polygon with zone-80!] If you ask for the limit on residental road, the answer is: 50, because it lies within the zone-50 region. If you ask for the limit on the ringroad, the answer is: 80, because it has the tag maxspeed=80, which has greater importance than the zone-50. If you ask for the limit of the lat/lon, where the roads have intersection on the map, the answer is: Ambiguous. You must specify the road, you are asking for! Did I explain it clearly this time? Yours, Radek Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch wrote: Don't focus on the highway-in-city bit. Focus on the $random_road_type with a different maxspeed bridges over (or tunnels under) a zone with another maxspeed bit. You'll have two zone polygons overlaying each other. No, 'maxspeed' tag on a road does not imply a polygon with zone! There can be both in one place. Tag 'maxspeed' on a road is dominant and overrides any zonal restriction. And what if the crossing way in the above example is part of another zone? Don't say it can never happen. City planners are loopy. However it's important to notice that two polygons can never overlap (unless there is a futuristic city with zone-30 area flying in the air above a 130 km/h highway). Oh please, this is getting silly. I know it's pain to work with them, but the solution is to learn JOSM to split map into layers, not to adjust the data-model. Right. Even smarter editors. PS: There are more editors than JOSM. -- Lennard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Lennard píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 01:51 +0200: Radomir Cernoch wrote: Don't focus on the highway-in-city bit. Focus on the $random_road_type with a different maxspeed bridges over (or tunnels under) a zone with another maxspeed bit. You'll have two zone polygons overlaying each other. No, 'maxspeed' tag on a road does not imply a polygon with zone! There can be both in one place. Tag 'maxspeed' on a road is dominant and overrides any zonal restriction. And what if the crossing way in the above example is part of another zone? Don't say it can never happen. City planners are loopy. Ok, if you don't allow me to say that this will never happen, can you give me an example, where it could happen? I am really afraid we are solving a purely theoretical problem. We are seeking a situation, where two large areas with road networks overlap each other on a map. All streets in one area must have a different speed limit from streets in the second area. In such a situation, using maxspeed=* tag on any street must be inappropriate. However it's important to notice that two polygons can never overlap (unless there is a futuristic city with zone-30 area flying in the air above a 130 km/h highway). Oh please, this is getting silly. Sorry for the joke, which probably covered serious the message I was trying to put across. See paragraphs above. I know it's pain to work with them, but the solution is to learn JOSM to split map into layers, not to adjust the data-model. Right. Even smarter editors. PS: There are more editors than JOSM. Even if we abandoned the idea of zone polygons, adding layered editing into OSM editors would be _very_ practical... Best regards, Radek Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
On Thu, 21 May 2009 03:13:06 +0300, Radomir Cernoch radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote: Lennard píše v Čt 21. 05. 2009 v 01:51 +0200: Radomir Cernoch wrote: No, 'maxspeed' tag on a road does not imply a polygon with zone! There can be both in one place. Tag 'maxspeed' on a road is dominant and overrides any zonal restriction. And what if the crossing way in the above example is part of another zone? Don't say it can never happen. City planners are loopy. Ok, if you don't allow me to say that this will never happen, can you give me an example, where it could happen? I am really afraid we are solving a purely theoretical problem. We are seeking a situation, where two large areas with road networks overlap each other on a map. All streets in one area must have a different speed limit from streets in the second area. In such a situation, using maxspeed=* tag on any street must be inappropriate. http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=60.18933lon=24.9642zoom=18layers=B000FTF Sturenkatu is in 40 km/h zone, the zone continues over the bridge. Teollisuuskatu is in 50 km/h zone that is signed with the city sign. Both zones also include large amount of other roads. IIRC the 50 km/h zone can be followed from that point many kilometers, and the 40 km/h zone extends tens of roads. There also might be other overlaps between them, or with other zones. Regards Teemu Koskinen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Revert changes/bug in changeset?
Can somebody look into reverting way 33136730 and 33136657. They seem to have been buggy (only 3 nodes visible out of many) and whan I did an update of relations connected to these roads, they was updated with the version I had on my computer (no changes should have been done to the ways). Original of the two ways are version 1, from changeset 503897 by user Nighto, while my changeset 1270407 should never have updated these two ways and therefor version 2 should be reverted. Aun Johnsen ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
2009/5/21 Teemu Koskinen teemu.koski...@mbnet.fi: On Thu, 21 May 2009 03:13:06 +0300, Radomir Cernoch radomir.cern...@gmail.com wrote: We are seeking a situation, where two large areas with road networks overlap each other on a map. All streets in one area must have a different speed limit from streets in the second area. In such a situation, using maxspeed=* tag on any street must be inappropriate. http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=60.18933lon=24.9642zoom=18layers=B000FTF Sturenkatu is in 40 km/h zone, the zone continues over the bridge. Teollisuuskatu is in 50 km/h zone that is signed with the city sign. Both zones also include large amount of other roads. IIRC the 50 km/h zone can be followed from that point many kilometers, and the 40 km/h zone extends tens of roads. There also might be other overlaps between them, or with other zones. Hi, I think this might the point, where the confusion comes from. I do not think that streets like Sturenkatu or Teollisuuskatu, nor any of connected primary/secondary/tertiary form a zone. I would suggest to define a zone as an area with predominantly uniform traffic regulations. I've spent only a few minutes looking at the map, so here's just a rough idea how such area could be mapped: I would suggest to use zone-50 for whole Helsinki, because it's the speed limit in Finland for all cities. Smaller areas to south and east from the bridge can be covered by zone-30. I have seen many 40 km/h streets more to north, which could form zone-40. These two zones can be easily connected to the large zone-50 using a multipolygon, because they are inside the Helsinki traffic regulation. However there is no reason for zone-40 and zone-30 to overlap. And the roads: If the eg. Hämeentie falls between above mentioned zone-30 and zone-40, it will not have to include any maxspeed=* tag. Otherwise, it can have maxspeed=50. I would also like to point out that a map, where all roads have maxspeed tag do not have to change at all in order to comply to the proposed schema. Lastly please notice one detail, which proves why I think that zone-polygons are a good idea: If you look north-east from the bridge, there are a few 'service' roads (Allotriankuja, Rialtonkuja and unnamed 5074030). These roads do not have any maxspeed tag. Is then their speed limit 100 km/h, which is the limit for paved provincial roads in Finland? Or how do you conclude that these streets are in a city? This example shows that even in a very complete and well made map (like the map of Helsinky), people tend to forget about specifying speed limits. Zone-polygon solves such issues. Best regards, Radek Černoch ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] zones for motorway/in town/outof town?
Radomir Cernoch wrote: We are seeking a situation, where two large areas with road networks overlap each other on a map. All streets in one area must have a different speed limit from streets in the second area. In such a situation, using maxspeed=* tag on any street must be inappropriate. http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=53.55042lon=9.90328zoom=16 http://openstreetmap.org/?lat=54.35514lon=10.12067zoom=17 The motorway resp. trunk are not part of the town. I think we should not use polygons for non-area properties. zone:traffic=DE:place only applies to roads and not to an urban-area. Why use polygons for way-properties? Because less tagging is needed? With JOSM is is easy to select many roads and only add the tag once. In future there might be an option like Select all ways containing tag *... A big drawback of such polygons is that it is hard (time-consuming) to find out which polygons are involved especially because you need to do that for each way-segment again and because several zones can overlap. That would be a lot more than testing a point for being in a country. (Only one well known polygon involved) I think it is important to make the data parseable by non-professionals. A tag on a way can be parsed without big programming capabilities, but testing several thousand unassociated trafficzone-polygons for every country might be a problem. Do you have a easy to understand and fast solution for that problem? Per ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
On Tue, 2009-05-19 at 23:32 +0200, Lennard wrote: Theun wrote: Wel weer jammer dat vaak op een kruispunt in het midden van een dorpje waar een knooppunt is gekozen vaak ook een place-tag staat, waardoor de plaatsnaam dwars over de knooppunt-aanduiding staat. Heb je hier een paar voorbeelden van, zodat ik kan experimenteren? Op http://openfietskaart.nl/?zoom=14lat=53.1739lon=5.98443layers=BTFTFFFT zie je 2 voorbeelden. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] zoekfunctie
Dag allemaal, Hier tussendoor even een vraag van een leek: werken jullie ook aan een zoekfunctie in OSM? Het ontbreken van die functie in OSM is voor mij vaak een reden om toch op Googlemaps te kijken. En nog een mini-opmerking over http://osm.esperconsultancy.nl: 'acties' en 'contact' beter met c's schrijven. Met een k wordt het wel erg socialistisch. groeten, Sandra ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] zoekfunctie
Hoi Sandra, Er is de namefinder op openstreetmap.org, maar ik ben het met je eens, het zou een goede functionaliteit zijn voor de Nederlandse server. Ook als alleenstaande webservice, OSMGeocoder / OSMRevGeocoder. Een +1 dus van mij :) martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ 2009/5/20 samsa sa...@xs4all.nl: Dag allemaal, Hier tussendoor even een vraag van een leek: werken jullie ook aan een zoekfunctie in OSM? Het ontbreken van die functie in OSM is voor mij vaak een reden om toch op Googlemaps te kijken. En nog een mini-opmerking over http://osm.esperconsultancy.nl: 'acties' en 'contact' beter met c's schrijven. Met een k wordt het wel erg socialistisch. groeten, Sandra ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] OpenStreetMap Rheinland in Bonn, 26 mei
Ha alllemaal, Vanwege de relatieve nabijheid en een interessant programma plug ik hier de OSM Rheinland-bijeenkomst, volgende week woensdag op 26 mei. http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/OSM_im_Rheinland_2009 Op de wiki staan weinig aanmeldingen, maar ik kreeg vandaag een mail van de overkoepelende organisatie, de deegree day 2009 http://deegreeday.deegree.org/, dat er 60 aanmeldingen zijn. Het programma ziet er interessant uit, met onderwerpen die zowel mappers als techneuten (voor zover dat verschillende mensen zijn ;) zullen aanspreken: 10:00-10:30 Begrüßung 10:30-11:30 Jochen Topf (Geofabrik GmbH): Hinter den Kulissen von OpenStreetMap: Ein Blick in die Karten Damian Paderta (Uni Bonn): Über das Füllen von weißen Flecken: Die Arbeit eines Mappers 11:30-12:00 Kaffeepause 12:00-13:30 Pascal Neis et al. (Uni Bonn): Routing, Geokodierung, POI-Suche, Erreichbarkeitsanalyse und mehr mit OpenStreetMap-Daten Astrid Müller (Uni Bonn): Rollstuhlfahrer-Routing Alexander Zipf et al (Uni Bonn): OpenStreetMap 3D 13:30-14:30 Mittagspause (Mensabesuch auf eigenen Kosten) 14:30-16:00 Raimond Spekking (MediaWiki): OpenStreetMap und MediaWiki Stefan Wick (Straßen.NRW): Zusammenarbeit zwischen Strassen.NRW und OpenStreetMap Sebastian Goerke (lat/lon GmbH): Aufbau eines Web Map Service auf Basis von OpenStreetMap 16:00-16:15 Kaffeepause 16:15-17:00 ggf. Abschlussdiskussion De voertaal is (uiteraard) wel Duits. Ik ben er in elk geval bij. martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] zoekfunctie
Dat moet toch wel sosialisties zijn dan, sandra ! Soms heb ik wel heimwee naar die tijd (eind jaren 70) toen dit type spelling haar entree deed. Kontakt Elektronika Kompressor Funktioneren Simbool frekwentie kode en dekoderen kwasie simmetrisch interkom sintesizer sinchroon eksperimenteren kado logika metode +2 voor de zoekfunk(c)tie ! Gert Gremmen - Openstreetmap.nl (alias: cetest) Before printing, think about the environment. -Oorspronkelijk bericht- Van: talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-nl-boun...@openstreetmap.org] Namens samsa Verzonden: Wednesday, May 20, 2009 10:12 AM Aan: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-nl] zoekfunctie Dag allemaal, Hier tussendoor even een vraag van een leek: werken jullie ook aan een zoekfunctie in OSM? Het ontbreken van die functie in OSM is voor mij vaak een reden om toch op Googlemaps te kijken. En nog een mini-opmerking over http://osm.esperconsultancy.nl: 'acties' en 'contact' beter met c's schrijven. Met een k wordt het wel erg socialistisch. groeten, Sandra ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
SQL is natuurlijk tha bomb ;) kan ik eindelijk m'n request zoek shell tankstation met restaurant binnen 50km waar ik nu rij (A2) afvuren of geef me alle Rabobank pinautomaten binnen 1km vanaf dit punt Op 20 mei 2009 03:15 heeft Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de het volgende geschreven: Jullie herinneren je vast nog wel het super geheime api server project. Dat heeft (om onduidelijke redenen) een vervolg gekregen in de vorm van een super geheim XAPI project. Momenteel in hardware gesponsord door Dogodigi en mede daarom doet niet meer dan de Benelux ;) Nu zaten we al eerder te denken, OSM-XML suckt gewoon om daar lekkere webservices op te draaien. Mijn vraag aan jullie eventuele ontwikkelaars: Op welke standaard zit je dan te wachten? Ik zat zelf te denken om XAPI in JSON aan te bieden, maar mochten er nog interessante andere verzoeken zijn kunnen die ook worden ingewilligd. Lookup snelheid is nu 100ms. Ik ga er vanuit dat er morgen een frontend voorhangt waar je lekker op kunt querien. Kom ik gelijk bij het volgende punt; Zou je de database in SQL willen querien? ...of alleen in een zwak XPath aftreksel? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Ja eens, die XAPI requests nu zijn veel te beperkt (en te langzaam) Martijn martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ 2009/5/20 Rob interru...@gmail.com: SQL is natuurlijk tha bomb ;) kan ik eindelijk m'n request zoek shell tankstation met restaurant binnen 50km waar ik nu rij (A2) afvuren of geef me alle Rabobank pinautomaten binnen 1km vanaf dit punt Op 20 mei 2009 03:15 heeft Stefan de Konink ste...@konink.de het volgende geschreven: Jullie herinneren je vast nog wel het super geheime api server project. Dat heeft (om onduidelijke redenen) een vervolg gekregen in de vorm van een super geheim XAPI project. Momenteel in hardware gesponsord door Dogodigi en mede daarom doet niet meer dan de Benelux ;) Nu zaten we al eerder te denken, OSM-XML suckt gewoon om daar lekkere webservices op te draaien. Mijn vraag aan jullie eventuele ontwikkelaars: Op welke standaard zit je dan te wachten? Ik zat zelf te denken om XAPI in JSON aan te bieden, maar mochten er nog interessante andere verzoeken zijn kunnen die ook worden ingewilligd. Lookup snelheid is nu 100ms. Ik ga er vanuit dat er morgen een frontend voorhangt waar je lekker op kunt querien. Kom ik gelijk bij het volgende punt; Zou je de database in SQL willen querien? ...of alleen in een zwak XPath aftreksel? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Eindelijk :) Ik zit zelf te denken aan een combinatie. Je zou voor sommige devs best gewoon SQL willen parsen. Uiteraard braaf met een readonly acocuntje zodat niet een of andere boosdoener (of domme idioot) de hele db kan wissen, maar dat idee had je vast ook al gehad :) Maar voor veel users zou denk ik inderdaad een simpele XPath ook super zijn. Denk dat je op die manier de meeste gebruikers kan bedienen. Ben benieuwd om hem in actie te zien! Op welke data set is die 100ms getest? --Roeland On Wednesday 20 May 2009 03:15:42 Stefan de Konink wrote: Jullie herinneren je vast nog wel het super geheime api server project. Dat heeft (om onduidelijke redenen) een vervolg gekregen in de vorm van een super geheim XAPI project. Momenteel in hardware gesponsord door Dogodigi en mede daarom doet niet meer dan de Benelux ;) Nu zaten we al eerder te denken, OSM-XML suckt gewoon om daar lekkere webservices op te draaien. Mijn vraag aan jullie eventuele ontwikkelaars: Op welke standaard zit je dan te wachten? Ik zat zelf te denken om XAPI in JSON aan te bieden, maar mochten er nog interessante andere verzoeken zijn kunnen die ook worden ingewilligd. Lookup snelheid is nu 100ms. Ik ga er vanuit dat er morgen een frontend voorhangt waar je lekker op kunt querien. Kom ik gelijk bij het volgende punt; Zou je de database in SQL willen querien? ...of alleen in een zwak XPath aftreksel? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Tuurlijk :) Gewoon overal 42 op retourneren ;) Maar even zonder dollen wat meer semantiek in de data zou wel bruut zijn. Zal er wel even over denken wat voor brute dingen wij hiermee zouden kunnen doen :) On Wednesday 20 May 2009 13:14:39 Rob wrote: Roeland kun jij niet even een sematisch web implementeren ? ;o) Op 20 mei 2009 13:12 heeft Roeland Douma u...@rullzer.com het volgende geschreven: Eindelijk :) Ik zit zelf te denken aan een combinatie. Je zou voor sommige devs best gewoon SQL willen parsen. Uiteraard braaf met een readonly acocuntje zodat niet een of andere boosdoener (of domme idioot) de hele db kan wissen, maar dat idee had je vast ook al gehad :) Maar voor veel users zou denk ik inderdaad een simpele XPath ook super zijn. Denk dat je op die manier de meeste gebruikers kan bedienen. Ben benieuwd om hem in actie te zien! Op welke data set is die 100ms getest? --Roeland On Wednesday 20 May 2009 03:15:42 Stefan de Konink wrote: Jullie herinneren je vast nog wel het super geheime api server project. Dat heeft (om onduidelijke redenen) een vervolg gekregen in de vorm van een super geheim XAPI project. Momenteel in hardware gesponsord door Dogodigi en mede daarom doet niet meer dan de Benelux ;) Nu zaten we al eerder te denken, OSM-XML suckt gewoon om daar lekkere webservices op te draaien. Mijn vraag aan jullie eventuele ontwikkelaars: Op welke standaard zit je dan te wachten? Ik zat zelf te denken om XAPI in JSON aan te bieden, maar mochten er nog interessante andere verzoeken zijn kunnen die ook worden ingewilligd. Lookup snelheid is nu 100ms. Ik ga er vanuit dat er morgen een frontend voorhangt waar je lekker op kunt querien. Kom ik gelijk bij het volgende punt; Zou je de database in SQL willen querien? ...of alleen in een zwak XPath aftreksel? Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
Lennard wrote: Theun wrote: Wel weer jammer dat vaak op een kruispunt in het midden van een dorpje waar een knooppunt is gekozen vaak ook een place-tag staat, waardoor de plaatsnaam dwars over de knooppunt-aanduiding staat. Heb je hier een paar voorbeelden van, zodat ik kan experimenteren? Het 'dorpje' leiden heeft het ook een beetje maar deze is nog duidelijker: http://openfietskaart.nl/?zoom=14lat=52.13092lon=4.5939layers=BFFTFFFT Voor de rest top-kaart! Floris ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
On Tuesday 19 May 2009, Theun wrote: Wel weer jammer dat vaak op een kruispunt in het midden van een dorpje waar een knooppunt is gekozen vaak ook een place-tag staat, waardoor de plaatsnaam dwars over de knooppunt-aanduiding staat. Daar valt voorlopig toch weinig tegen te doen. We kunnen moeilijk die nodes gaan zitten verplaatsen omdat het op deze kaart nu toevallig voor problemen zorgt. En zelfs als Mapnik ooit een functie zal hebben om plaatsnamen uit de weg te zetten voor andere features, dan gaat het hier nog niet vanzelfsprekend zijn om het op te lossen aangezien de knooppunten op een andere layer zitten, en wat dan weer werkt voor fietsknooppunten kan dan weer niet werken voor wandelknooppunten bijvoorbeeld. Ben ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
daarom had ik de plaatsnamen op weer een andere layer gezet :) zodat die weer over de fietsroute layer kan liggen Op 20 mei 2009 13:46 heeft Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com het volgende geschreven: On Tuesday 19 May 2009, Theun wrote: Wel weer jammer dat vaak op een kruispunt in het midden van een dorpje waar een knooppunt is gekozen vaak ook een place-tag staat, waardoor de plaatsnaam dwars over de knooppunt-aanduiding staat. Daar valt voorlopig toch weinig tegen te doen. We kunnen moeilijk die nodes gaan zitten verplaatsen omdat het op deze kaart nu toevallig voor problemen zorgt. En zelfs als Mapnik ooit een functie zal hebben om plaatsnamen uit de weg te zetten voor andere features, dan gaat het hier nog niet vanzelfsprekend zijn om het op te lossen aangezien de knooppunten op een andere layer zitten, en wat dan weer werkt voor fietsknooppunten kan dan weer niet werken voor wandelknooppunten bijvoorbeeld. Ben ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2, the next level
We hebben nu een prachtige kaart, gaan we nu op naar stap 2: routering met behulp van fietsknooppunten? :D Roeland Douma wrote: Fietsers, De fietsers onder jullie zal het niet ontgaan zijn dat er de laatste tijd verscheidene dagen zijn geweest waarop er weer fanatiek gemapd kon worden met de fiets! Tevens is statistisch gezien de kans ook steeds groter dat we er vaker op uit kunnen op de fiets en dat wordt dan uiteraard ook van alle mappers in ons land verwacht. Om dit alles nog aantrekkelijker te maken heeft Lennard (Ldp) in het diepste geheim gewerkt aan een verbeterde stylesheet voor openfietskaart.nl Deze stylesheet bied onder andere: * Labels voor de LF routes * Afstands aanduiding voor de rcn routes * Snellere updates omdat deze kaart op de nieuwe tile server draait Vragen, opmerkingen, suggesties en/of kudos zijn uiteraard welkom! Een ieder veel fiets plezier gewenst, --Roeland ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
Sander Hoentjen wrote: plaatsnaam dwars over de knooppunt-aanduiding staat. Heb je hier een paar voorbeelden van, zodat ik kan experimenteren? Hmm, het plan dat ik had, gaat niet door. Het enige dat ik op dit moment kan bereiken is het gewoon laten wegvallen van de naam. Dat is denk ik niet de bedoeling. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2
Ben Laenen wrote: En zelfs als Mapnik ooit een functie zal hebben om plaatsnamen uit de weg te zetten voor andere features, dan gaat het hier nog niet http://trac.mapnik.org/ticket/346 Ticket heb ik al gemaakt. vanzelfsprekend zijn om het op te lossen aangezien de knooppunten op een andere layer zitten, en wat dan weer werkt voor fietsknooppunten kan dan weer niet werken voor wandelknooppunten bijvoorbeeld. Ben, dat eerste is geen enkel probleem, maar wel wat bewerkelijk. Het laatste kun je oplossen door verschillende plaatsnaamlayers, toegespitst op de kaart die getoond wordt. -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2, the next level
Op 20 mei 2009 14:21 heeft Lambertus o...@na1400.info het volgende geschreven: We hebben nu een prachtige kaart, gaan we nu op naar stap 2: routering met behulp van fietsknooppunten? :D doe maar ;) Lijk me niet meer dan logisch he ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2, the next level
Lambertus wrote: We hebben nu een prachtige kaart, gaan we nu op naar stap 2: routering met behulp van fietsknooppunten? :D Jij bent de routeringsman, he? :D -- Lennard ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Roeland Douma wrote: Ben benieuwd om hem in actie te zien! Op welke data set is die 100ms getest? BeNeLux. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2, the next level
Ik begin bijna te kwijlen... (Hmm, lekkere binnenkomer is dat voor een mailinglist.) Ik bedoel dus: ja graag! 2009/5/20 Lambertus o...@na1400.info: We hebben nu een prachtige kaart, gaan we nu op naar stap 2: routering met behulp van fietsknooppunten? :D Roeland Douma wrote: Fietsers, De fietsers onder jullie zal het niet ontgaan zijn dat er de laatste tijd verscheidene dagen zijn geweest waarop er weer fanatiek gemapd kon worden met de fiets! Tevens is statistisch gezien de kans ook steeds groter dat we er vaker op uit kunnen op de fiets en dat wordt dan uiteraard ook van alle mappers in ons land verwacht. Om dit alles nog aantrekkelijker te maken heeft Lennard (Ldp) in het diepste geheim gewerkt aan een verbeterde stylesheet voor openfietskaart.nl Deze stylesheet bied onder andere: * Labels voor de LF routes * Afstands aanduiding voor de rcn routes * Snellere updates omdat deze kaart op de nieuwe tile server draait Vragen, opmerkingen, suggesties en/of kudos zijn uiteraard welkom! Een ieder veel fiets plezier gewenst, --Roeland ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl -- de Campusomroep: op en achter UTV en Uradio! www.campusomroep.nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Openfietskaart.nl Beta 2, the next level
Lennard wrote: Lambertus wrote: We hebben nu een prachtige kaart, gaan we nu op naar stap 2: routering met behulp van fietsknooppunten? :D Jij bent de routeringsman, he? :D Dat was niet de bedoeling, ik probeer anderen even te kietelen :) De http://www.yournavigation.org website en routing engine zit in SVN... Je kunt overigens al wel een voorproefje hiervan bekijken: http://yournavigation.org/?flat=52.105864flon=5.701752tlat=52.355675tlon=5.953064v=bicyclefast=1layer=cn Mooi he! Maar het kan nóg beter... ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
- Original Message
From: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
To: OpenStreetMap NL discussion list talk-nl@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
Date: 19/05/09 20:53
Ben Laenen wrote:
gt; On Monday 18 May 2009, Maarten Deen wrote:
gt;gt; Ik ben er voorstander van om alle wegen expliciet met een
gt;gt; maximumsnelheid te taggen.
gt;
gt; Het probleem met taggen van impliciete snelheden ligt hem gewoon in
het
gt; feit dat impliciete snelheden wel eens kunnen veranderen in de loop
van
gt; de jaren. Stel dat men over een paar jaar zegt dat in bebouwde kom
ipv
gt; 50 nog maar 40 mag ('k zeg maar iets), dan heb je een probleem omdat
je
gt; niet meer weet of die maxspeed=50 getagd was aan de hand van een
gt; verkeersbord dat daar staat of omdat het gewoon de snelheid van een
gt; bebouwde kom was. Dus kan je alle straten met maxspeed=50 opnieuw
gt; afrijden om te zien of er nu een bord stond of niet (of ten minste
gt; iedereen ergens in zijn logs op zoek laten gaan naar zijn nota's).
Hoe vaak zal dat voorkomen? Goed, in Nederland is het voorgekomen: 20 jaar
geleden zijn de autosnelwegen van 100 naar 120 km/h gegaan.
gt; Ten tweede: ga er nooit vanuit dat mappers al hun verkeersregels
kennen.
gt; Ik ben er zeker van dat als je hier in België willekeurig mensen
vraagt
gt; hoe snel je exact mag op een woonerf of erf je uiteenlopende
antwoorden
gt; gaat krijgen. Niet iedereen heeft zijn verkeersregels fris in het
gt; achterhoofd zitten.
Die regels staan toch in de wiki? Ik heb ook nagelezen dat in Nederland
een
woonerf als 15 km/h wordt gezien, de regel is namelijk
quot;stapvoetsquot;, en wat de
rechter ook zegt, die regel wordt je geleerd bij je rijlessen. Sterker
nog: ik
denk dat er veel meer mensen weten dat je stapvoets hoort te rijden dan
dat je
volgens de rechter ook 15 mag rijden.
gt; Het taggen van de impliciete tags is nu wel een leuk lapmiddeltje om
het
gt; huidige gebrek aan zo'n vertaler goed te maken, maar in de toekomst
gt; krijg je vroeg of laat wel problemen met zo'n impliciete regels omdat
gt; verkeersregels nu eenmaal veranderen in de tijd, en dan kan je niet
gt; meer zeggen of je tag expliciet of impliciet op de weg te vinden was.
Je zult toch heel erg veel snelheden moeten taggen. In Belgïe al
helemaal.. Als
ik de grens over rij in Hamont dan staat daar een groot bord dat er drie
snelheden binnen de gemeente zijn: 30, 50 en 70. Alleen de 50 is
impliciet, maar
Hamont is nog niet zover gemapt dat je aan de hand van de kaart kunt zien
waar
dat is.
Dan nog zul je 50 km toch expliciet moeten taggen, want niet alles dat
binnen
een boundary=town valt is ook binnen de bebouwde kom (zie de AND data in
Nederland) en niet alles wat niet binnen boundary=town valt is 80 km/h.
Dus de
uitzonderingen moet je dan weer gaan taggen.
Ik ga als mapper al die uitzonderingen niet bekijken. Dan vind ik het veel
simpeler om te zeggen quot;hier mag je 50, daar mag je 80quot;, zonder
nog op te moeten
zoeken of deze way wel of niet de goede snelheid krijgt door een
impliciete
renderer (die er nog niet is en waar ik de regels niet van ken en die door
een
mapfeature toe te voegen ook weer van de wijs gebracht kan worden).
IMHO is het dan toch veel en veel simpeler om het allemaal te taggen. Ook
dingen
die impliciet lijken.
Helemaal mijn idee!
Maarten
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Re: [OSM-talk-nl] XAPI maar dan beter
Roeland Douma wrote: Super. Dan zeggen de getallen ook nog iets. Ben erg benieuwd :D Op wereld grootte moet xapi ook wel goed gaan. Het probleem op wereld grootte lag bij Monet op bbox'en, niet op tag lookups. Maar ik heb het bbox probleem naar 3s teruggebracht op wereld grootte. Stefan ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
[OSM-talk-nl] Woonplaatsen taggen
Hoi allemaal, Hoe tag ik woonplaatsen? D.w.z. de door de gemeentes vastgestelde woonplaatsgrenzen, die in adressen gebruikt worden. Dit zijn areas (gesloten ways) die heel Nederland bedekken. Tot nu toe heb ik van een vijftal gemeenten (bijv. de Haarlemmermeer) de woonplaatsgrenzen toegevoegd (nagetekend uit woonplaatsbesluiten van de gemeenten), en heb ik er relaties van gemaakt, met type=woonplaats. Maar ik zou het liefst aansluiten bij een internationale definitie, die gebruikt zou kunnen worden bij Name Finder-achtige toepassingen. gr,Eu ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
Martijn van Exel wrote: Eens. Je kunt wel redundante informatie blijven toevoegen, maar dan wordt het echt onbeheersbaar. Het feit dat een object binnen Nederland ligt conformeert, als niet anders aangegeven, aan de Nederlandse standaard als vastgelegd in wet- en regelgeving. Het voorbeeld van Ben is uit zijn verband getrokken. Die regels gelden voor alle wegen. Maximum snelheden zijn erg verschillend. Stel dan eerst maar eens de regels op welke wegen wel en welke wegen niet en in welke omstandigheden met een maxspeed te taggen zijn. Ik heb al aangegeven dat dat een uitgebreide set regels wordt die ik als mapper niet altijd snel kan toepassen (als ik een gedeelte van een kaart download dan weet ik niet of ik wel of niet binnen de bebouwde kom zit bijvoorbeeld, nog afgezien van het feit dat niet alle bebouwde kommen (goed) zijn gemapt). Maarten On 20-05-2009 17:33, Ben Laenen wrote: IMHO is het dan toch veel en veel simpeler om het allemaal te taggen. Ook dingen die impliciet lijken. Helemaal mijn idee! Begin dan maar met het taggen van motorcar=yes op elke weg, motorcar=no op elk fietspad, oneway=no op elke weg, en wat weet ik nog allemaal. Dat is namelijk ook allemaal impliciet. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Migratie openstreetmap.nl
Wat mij besterft zijn we goed om te gaan. Ik wou even wachten of er nog hate mail binnen kwam dat ik gek was geworden maar het valt erg mee. (waarschijnlijk komt dat na de migratie :P). Ik zal zo Jeroen even tackelen. --Roeland On Wednesday 20 May 2009 18:42:37 Martijn van Exel wrote: Hoe staat het ermee ondertussen? De kaart ziet er nog steeds een beetje verminkt uit.. Succes! Grtz Martijn On 18-05-2009 14:31, Roeland Douma wrote: Floris, Volgens mij moeten de meeste links blijven werken. Nouja tile.openstreetmap.nl/~user niet meer. Maar dat zou naar dev moeten gaan dan dus. Het kan ook gezien worden als een grote schoonmaak waarbij we alle oude troep een keer opruimen. Over de AND stuff. Deze zal ik even backuppen vanaf de oude server en deze tiletjes ook op de nieuwe gaan bakken. Voordeel van de AND tiles is dat ze niet on demand hoeven :P --Roeland On Monday 18 May 2009 14:20:47 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: als oude links blijven werken lijkt me dat prima. zitten de and layers daar ook nog steeds in? groet, floris dev.openstreetmap.nl is nu actief en wijst naar de oude tile server. Tenzij er nog bezwaar is zou ik tile.openstreetmap.nl graag naar de nieuwe server zetten zodat iedereen daarvan kan genieten. --Roeland On Saturday 16 May 2009 13:49:42 Milo van der Linden wrote: Beste allemaal, Hedenochtend is het volgende voorstel besproken op het #osm-nl IRC kanaal: In verband met gebroken wegen op tile.openstreetmap.nl wordt overwogen om de nieuwe oxilion server op de url tile.openstreetmap.nl te zetten. Voor de oude server wordt overwogen de url dev.openstreetmap.nl óf oud.openstreetmap.nl te gaan gebruiken. Voor gebroken links willen we de tekst: Was u op zoek naar oud.openstreetmap.nl of dev.openstreetmap.nl tonen op de error pagina's Ondertussen worden dan de logs gemonitord om te kijken welke oude url's nog vaak worden geraadpleegd zodat deze gemigreerd kunnen worden. Uiteindelijk hopen we te komen tot een situatie waarbij de oude omgevingen compleet zijn uitgefaseerd, hierbij zorgend dat: - Initiatieven die nog niet helemaal af zijn op een nieuwe dev omgeving komen - Productie rijpe initiatieven naar de nieuwe tile.openstreetmap.nl worden verplaatst. Graag jullie meningen over dit initiatief! Met vriendelijke groet, Milo van der Linden Secretaris - Stichting OpenGeo http://www.opengeo.nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
On Wednesday 20 May 2009, Maarten Deen wrote: Martijn van Exel wrote: Eens. Je kunt wel redundante informatie blijven toevoegen, maar dan wordt het echt onbeheersbaar. Het feit dat een object binnen Nederland ligt conformeert, als niet anders aangegeven, aan de Nederlandse standaard als vastgelegd in wet- en regelgeving. Het voorbeeld van Ben is uit zijn verband getrokken. Die regels gelden voor alle wegen. Maximum snelheden zijn erg verschillend. Stel dan eerst maar eens de regels op welke wegen wel en welke wegen niet en in welke omstandigheden met een maxspeed te taggen zijn. Ik heb al aangegeven dat dat een uitgebreide set regels wordt die ik als mapper niet altijd snel kan toepassen (als ik een gedeelte van een kaart download dan weet ik niet of ik wel of niet binnen de bebouwde kom zit bijvoorbeeld, nog afgezien van het feit dat niet alle bebouwde kommen (goed) zijn gemapt). 't is nochtans zeer eenvoudig: tag enkel wat er te vinden is op de weg, want als er iets te vinden is dan betekent het dat het anders is dan de default (of soms een herinnering aan die default). Dus als er een snelheidsbord staat kan je dat taggen. En als er niets te vinden is, moet je het ook niet taggen. Als een automobilist slim genoeg moet zijn om te weten welke snelheid hij mag dan gaat een computer dat ook wel kunnen. Het feit dat er nog geen goeie manier is om te zeggen hoe de bebouwde kom of snelheidszones juist liggen is een tijdelijk probleem, want het zal eens moeten opgelost geraken. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
Eens. Je kunt wel redundante informatie blijven toevoegen, maar dan wordt het echt onbeheersbaar. Het feit dat een object binnen Nederland ligt conformeert, als niet anders aangegeven, aan de Nederlandse standaard als vastgelegd in wet- en regelgeving. On 20-05-2009 17:33, Ben Laenen wrote: IMHO is het dan toch veel en veel simpeler om het allemaal te taggen. Ook dingen die impliciet lijken. Helemaal mijn idee! Begin dan maar met het taggen van motorcar=yes op elke weg, motorcar=no op elk fietspad, oneway=no op elke weg, en wat weet ik nog allemaal. Dat is namelijk ook allemaal impliciet. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl -- martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Migratie openstreetmap.nl
Hoe staat het ermee ondertussen? De kaart ziet er nog steeds een beetje verminkt uit.. Succes! Grtz Martijn On 18-05-2009 14:31, Roeland Douma wrote: Floris, Volgens mij moeten de meeste links blijven werken. Nouja tile.openstreetmap.nl/~user niet meer. Maar dat zou naar dev moeten gaan dan dus. Het kan ook gezien worden als een grote schoonmaak waarbij we alle oude troep een keer opruimen. Over de AND stuff. Deze zal ik even backuppen vanaf de oude server en deze tiletjes ook op de nieuwe gaan bakken. Voordeel van de AND tiles is dat ze niet on demand hoeven :P --Roeland On Monday 18 May 2009 14:20:47 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: als oude links blijven werken lijkt me dat prima. zitten de and layers daar ook nog steeds in? groet, floris dev.openstreetmap.nl is nu actief en wijst naar de oude tile server. Tenzij er nog bezwaar is zou ik tile.openstreetmap.nl graag naar de nieuwe server zetten zodat iedereen daarvan kan genieten. --Roeland On Saturday 16 May 2009 13:49:42 Milo van der Linden wrote: Beste allemaal, Hedenochtend is het volgende voorstel besproken op het #osm-nl IRC kanaal: In verband met gebroken wegen op tile.openstreetmap.nl wordt overwogen om de nieuwe oxilion server op de url tile.openstreetmap.nl te zetten. Voor de oude server wordt overwogen de url dev.openstreetmap.nl óf oud.openstreetmap.nl te gaan gebruiken. Voor gebroken links willen we de tekst: Was u op zoek naar oud.openstreetmap.nl of dev.openstreetmap.nl tonen op de error pagina's Ondertussen worden dan de logs gemonitord om te kijken welke oude url's nog vaak worden geraadpleegd zodat deze gemigreerd kunnen worden. Uiteindelijk hopen we te komen tot een situatie waarbij de oude omgevingen compleet zijn uitgefaseerd, hierbij zorgend dat: - Initiatieven die nog niet helemaal af zijn op een nieuwe dev omgeving komen - Productie rijpe initiatieven naar de nieuwe tile.openstreetmap.nl worden verplaatst. Graag jullie meningen over dit initiatief! Met vriendelijke groet, Milo van der Linden Secretaris - Stichting OpenGeo http://www.opengeo.nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl -- martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] Migratie openstreetmap.nl
OK cool, ik zou (ook) zeggen: doen. Kunnen we eens kijken of de nieuwe setup tegen productieomstandigheden bestand is. Kan iemand me (nog eens) vertellen hoe het zit met de actualiteit van de tiles met deze setup? Hoe oud maximaal? Grtz martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://www.schaaltreinen.nl/ 2009/5/20 Roeland Douma u...@rullzer.com: Wat mij besterft zijn we goed om te gaan. Ik wou even wachten of er nog hate mail binnen kwam dat ik gek was geworden maar het valt erg mee. (waarschijnlijk komt dat na de migratie :P). Ik zal zo Jeroen even tackelen. --Roeland On Wednesday 20 May 2009 18:42:37 Martijn van Exel wrote: Hoe staat het ermee ondertussen? De kaart ziet er nog steeds een beetje verminkt uit.. Succes! Grtz Martijn On 18-05-2009 14:31, Roeland Douma wrote: Floris, Volgens mij moeten de meeste links blijven werken. Nouja tile.openstreetmap.nl/~user niet meer. Maar dat zou naar dev moeten gaan dan dus. Het kan ook gezien worden als een grote schoonmaak waarbij we alle oude troep een keer opruimen. Over de AND stuff. Deze zal ik even backuppen vanaf de oude server en deze tiletjes ook op de nieuwe gaan bakken. Voordeel van de AND tiles is dat ze niet on demand hoeven :P --Roeland On Monday 18 May 2009 14:20:47 Floris Looijesteijn wrote: als oude links blijven werken lijkt me dat prima. zitten de and layers daar ook nog steeds in? groet, floris dev.openstreetmap.nl is nu actief en wijst naar de oude tile server. Tenzij er nog bezwaar is zou ik tile.openstreetmap.nl graag naar de nieuwe server zetten zodat iedereen daarvan kan genieten. --Roeland On Saturday 16 May 2009 13:49:42 Milo van der Linden wrote: Beste allemaal, Hedenochtend is het volgende voorstel besproken op het #osm-nl IRC kanaal: In verband met gebroken wegen op tile.openstreetmap.nl wordt overwogen om de nieuwe oxilion server op de url tile.openstreetmap.nl te zetten. Voor de oude server wordt overwogen de url dev.openstreetmap.nl óf oud.openstreetmap.nl te gaan gebruiken. Voor gebroken links willen we de tekst: Was u op zoek naar oud.openstreetmap.nl of dev.openstreetmap.nl tonen op de error pagina's Ondertussen worden dan de logs gemonitord om te kijken welke oude url's nog vaak worden geraadpleegd zodat deze gemigreerd kunnen worden. Uiteindelijk hopen we te komen tot een situatie waarbij de oude omgevingen compleet zijn uitgefaseerd, hierbij zorgend dat: - Initiatieven die nog niet helemaal af zijn op een nieuwe dev omgeving komen - Productie rijpe initiatieven naar de nieuwe tile.openstreetmap.nl worden verplaatst. Graag jullie meningen over dit initiatief! Met vriendelijke groet, Milo van der Linden Secretaris - Stichting OpenGeo http://www.opengeo.nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
IMHO is het dan toch veel en veel simpeler om het allemaal te taggen. Ook dingen die impliciet lijken. Helemaal mijn idee! Begin dan maar met het taggen van motorcar=yes op elke weg, motorcar=no op elk fietspad, oneway=no op elke weg, en wat weet ik nog allemaal. Dat is namelijk ook allemaal impliciet. ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
On 20-05-2009 18:45, Maarten Deen wrote: Martijn van Exel wrote: Eens. Je kunt wel redundante informatie blijven toevoegen, maar dan wordt het echt onbeheersbaar. Het feit dat een object binnen Nederland ligt conformeert, als niet anders aangegeven, aan de Nederlandse standaard als vastgelegd in wet- en regelgeving. Het voorbeeld van Ben is uit zijn verband getrokken. Die regels gelden voor alle wegen. Maximum snelheden zijn erg verschillend. Als dat zo is, dan moeten ze getagd worden, maar volgens mij alleen waar het een uitzondering op de regel betreft. Een 100km- of 80km-sectie op een autosnelweg, een snelheidsbeperking in een scherpe bocht.. Maar ik zie niet waarom je elk stukje highway=primary als maxspeed=80 zou moeten taggen - *mits* highway=primary 1 op 1 vertaalt naar een 80km-weg. Alleen dan is de informatie echt redundant. Anderzijds - als je meer tijd kwijt bent met het bedenken of een bepaalde tag aan een bepaalde way al dan niet redundante informatie verbeeldt dan met het taggen zelf, dan zijn we nog niets opgeschoten. Het moet wel praktisch blijven. Stel dan eerst maar eens de regels op welke wegen wel en welke wegen niet en in welke omstandigheden met een maxspeed te taggen zijn. Ik heb al aangegeven dat dat een uitgebreide set regels wordt die ik als mapper niet altijd snel kan toepassen (als ik een gedeelte van een kaart download dan weet ik niet of ik wel of niet binnen de bebouwde kom zit bijvoorbeeld, nog afgezien van het feit dat niet alle bebouwde kommen (goed) zijn gemapt). Daar kom je op mijn laatste punt - als die set regels er niet is, of te ingewikkeld is om toe te passen, dan bereik je niets met een dogmatische houding ten aanzien van redundantie. Daar was het me niet om te doen. -- martijn van exel -+- mve...@gmail.com -+- http://schaaltreinen.nl/ ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [OSM-talk-nl] http://maximumsnelheid.openstreetmap.nl/
Ben Laenen wrote: 't is nochtans zeer eenvoudig: tag enkel wat er te vinden is op de weg, want als er iets te vinden is dan betekent het dat het anders is dan de default (of soms een herinnering aan die default). Dus als er een snelheidsbord staat kan je dat taggen. En als er niets te vinden is, moet je het ook niet taggen. Als een automobilist slim genoeg moet zijn om te weten welke snelheid hij mag dan gaat een computer dat ook wel kunnen. Dat is dus ook niet goed genoeg. Woonerven worden met een bord aangegeven, maar de snelheid kan impliciet uit highway=living_street gehaald worden. Maar in feite zeg je: autosnelwegen niet taggen als ze 120 zijn en overige wegen niet taggen als ze 80 zijn. Anders wel taggen. Geldt ook voor N-wegen in België waar je 120 mag. In Nederland betekent dat (met de huidige craze van 30- en 60-zones) dat waarschijnlijk 80% van de wegen getagd moet worden. Ik weet niet hoe het in België is, maar als ik naar Hamont kijk dan zal het ook wel die kant op gaan. Het feit dat er nog geen goeie manier is om te zeggen hoe de bebouwde kom of snelheidszones juist liggen is een tijdelijk probleem, want het zal eens moeten opgelost geraken. Goh, en het wordt steeds gezegd dat de snelheid op de way taggen geen oplossing is. Maar wel dat een andere methode die er niet is de oplossing is. Ik snap het niet. Maarten ___ Talk-nl mailing list Talk-nl@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-nl
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
AFAIK it is only lat, long and elevation data. How did you enter the name and surface tags for the ways. The source tag is the same. GPX files can contain a lot of data and meta data, the schema for GPX 1.1 can be found here: http://www.topografix.com/GPX/1/1 Well aware of that, I've been using them for osm uploads for 2-3years. However osm only uses a very limited set so lat, long and elev are all that is currently used by osm, you have to enter all other tags manually. Have a read of some of the info here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=gpx I could say something like that's google and not osm but have a look at the roundabouts below: I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round about sizes would make less work for people. Your gpx files should give you the correct sizes to make the roundabouts. GPS can be a car width or more wrong, although the more GPS tracks you can start applying averaging etc. But it still will give you a good indication on how big to draw the roundabout. Most of this stuff is in the wiki you just need to have a read through it. -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
To get imagery in Josm, you need to use the WMS menu at the top to add an imagery layer. You may need to set it up first with some plug-ins. It is certainly possible, though. Stephen 2009/5/20 Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com: I tried JSOM briefly the other day but the entire background was black and made it harder to use than potlach. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
I've drawn, probably wrong, at least one round about already, but that isn't what I meant, I meant for uniform round abouts a few different round about sizes would make less work for people. I gather you mean the way at the intersection of Gwydir Highway and Byron Street. A few things wrong with it Tags not required: clockwise, oneway The way is drawn backwards, in potlatch you can reverse the way by selecting it and then clicking on the button in the bottom left corner. By drawing the way in the correct direction it will be recoginised as clockwise. Additional tag required: junction=roundabout This tells the renderer/router that it is oneway. You could also probably half the number of nodes in the way as well, generally you only need 8 nodes to create a suitable roundabout on the map. One at each entry for four streets and one between each street entry. Have a look at the ones I pointed out before in Proserpine for an idea of how it works. By using josm it also allows you to align the nodes in a circle, and you can create one roundabout and then copy and paste. Once again this is in the wiki here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Map_Features -- Cheers Ross ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
On Wed, 20 May 2009 02:36:35 -0700 (PDT) Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: --- On Wed, 20/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: You could also probably half the number of nodes in the way as well, generally you only need 8 nodes to create a suitable roundabout on the map. One at each entry for four streets and one between each street entry. Have a look at the ones I pointed out before in Proserpine for an idea of how it works. I did what you suggested but it's a bit of a larger round about and it looks more like a octobout more than a round about. You will have to wait until the tile is re-rendered to see what it looks like on the slippy map. Unless its super large 500m across it will give reasonably good output. If it does look a little bit jagged then add more nodes. -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Delta Foxtrot delta_foxt...@yahoo.com wrote: After trawling for a bit I came across this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Surveyor Pity they didn't document what they did specifically. Actually if meta information (POIs/Street names) were saved as an OSM file/format, JOSM should be able to open/read the file without any problem, I think that's how they solved the problem with the Surveyor plugin. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com wrote: Well aware of that, I've been using them for osm uploads for 2-3years. However osm only uses a very limited set so lat, long and elev are all that is currently used by osm, you have to enter all other tags manually. After trawling for a bit I came across this: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/JOSM/Plugins/Surveyor Pity they didn't document what they did specifically. I've tried something like this in the car but daylight is too bright to see anything on the computer screen, and my sunglasses don't have a reading correction built in. It might work in gloomy Uk, but not Oz in midsummer. If you want to see where your track goes on an OSM map as you travel, then tangogps will show you - its great for showing your position and the existing map. You wouldn't want to make that into ways - it would contain too many points and doublebacks. Liz ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Rivers
--- On Wed, 20/5/09, ed...@billiau.net ed...@billiau.net wrote: I've tried something like this in the car but daylight is too bright to see anything on the computer screen, and my sunglasses don't have a reading correction built in. You could get something like the Panasonic Toughbook which is designed to be used outdoors and in coal mines, but I'm trying to do everything on a smart phone. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[Talk-de] Wanderkarte für Österreich
Hallo! Die Reit- und Wanderkarte (http://topo.geofabrik.de/) wurde erweitert und deckt jetzt die Länder Deutschland und Österreich komplett ab. bye Nop ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
[Talk-de] Artikel in Der Freitag
Hallo zusammen, ich habe bei der Wochenzeitung der Freitag http://www.freitag.de ( http://www.freitag.de/) einen Artikel über OSM veröffentlicht. Beim Freitag kann jeder Nutzer eigene Beiträge (als Blog-Posts) erstellen und die Beiträge anderer bewerten. Wenn euch mein Artikelhttp://www.freitag.de/community/blogs/peter-doerrie/freikarten-fuer-die-ganze-welt(Titel: Freiakrten für alle) gefällt, dann überlegt doch ob ihr ihm eine gute Wertung gebt. Dadurch erhöht ihr die Sichtbarkeit des Beitrags auf der Seite und vielleicht wird er sogar in die Print-Ausgabe (in ganz Deutschland) erhältlich. Das kleine Honorar, was ich in diesem Fall erhalten würde, werde ich einem OSM-Projekt oder der OSM-Stiftung zukommen lassen. Viele Grüße, Peter ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Wanderkarte für Österreich
Nop wrote: Die Reit- und Wanderkarte (http://topo.geofabrik.de/) wurde erweitert und deckt jetzt die Länder Deutschland und Österreich komplett ab. Super, danke! :) lg Andreas ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Geocaches in OSM
OK. Du meinst es ist was anderes nur die Koordinaten zu haben, als zu wissen links fom Parkplatz. Vielleicht sollte ich selber mal Geo-caching versuchen. Carsten -Original Message- From: talk-de-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-de-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Michael Kugelmann Sent: 20 May 2009 00:41 To: Openstreetmap allgemeines in Deutsch Subject: Re: [Talk-de] Geocaches in OSM Carsten Behring schrieb: Auch für mich als nicht-Geocacher ist der Reiz der Caches ja, dass man sie suchen muß und sie nicht offensichtlich sind = warum sollten sie dann prominent und gut sichtbar in einer Karte (ja ich weiß, OSM ist viel mehr als eine Karte) einfach sichtbar sein? Auch ich bin nicht-Geocacher, aber dieses Argument überzeugt nicht. Man weiss doch ehe wo ein Cache ist, jedefalls im Sinne von man hat die Koordinaten. Ob dies nun auf einer Karte eingezeichnet ist oder nicht, sollte keinen Unterschied machen. Koordinaten sind aber nicht aufeine Landschaft abgebildet. Soll heißen: wenn ich den Cache in einer Karte sehe, dann weiss ich sofort wo er liegt. Aber von den puren Koordinaten kann ich mich in der freien Natur nicht orientieren. Das macht für mich sehr wohl einen großen Unterschied. Ich denke sie gehören in die OSM, mit speziellen Tags, per default nicht gerendert. Irgend jemand wird die Render-Regeln dann doch ändern... MfG Michael. ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Geocaches in OSM
Frederik Ramm schrieb: Es wäre eine Anmassung ohne gleichen, wenn jemand behauptete, der Eigentümer der Position eines Geocaches zu sein. Wie gesagt, man kann durchaus Datenbankrechte geltend machen an einer Sammlung von Cache-Positionen, aber wenn ich im Wald auf einen Geocache stosse - und zwar voellig egal, wie ich dahingekommen bin - dann habe ich das Recht, diese Position zu twittern, zu bloggen, auf eine Webseite zu schreiben, und zu OSM hochzuladen. Wo kaemen wir denn da sonst hin. Das ist klar. Es ging darum, dass mittels eines Tools GeoCache Daten (Pos/Name/Difficulty/Terrain) von Geocaching nach OSM transferiert wurden. Das sehe ich als problematisch an. Natürlich ist das bei OpenCaching Caches was anderes. Auf GeoCaching.com kommt man an die Daten erst nach Anmeldung. Chris ___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
Re: [Talk-de] Geocaches in OSM
Am 19.05.09 schrieb Carsten Behring: Man weiss doch ehe wo ein Cache ist, jedefalls im Sinne von man hat die Koordinaten. Ob dies nun auf einer Karte eingezeichnet ist oder nicht, sollte keinen Unterschied machen. für den Einstieg gibt es z.B. unter http://www.opencaching.de/articles.php?page=cacheinfo eine Beschreibung, welche Cachearten es gibt. Die publizierten Einstiegskoordinaten nützen Dir ausser bei den ersten beiden Cachearten nichts ohne Beschreibung, die Zielkoordinaten nehmen Dir den Spaß bei der Suche. Gruß, Fabian.___ Talk-de mailing list Talk-de@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-de
