global warming.
It depends. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 21:49:43
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV
Hi Edgar,
And I'm losing the battle badly.. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 22:10:27
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hey Mike,
Beware, Buddha put all those cute Japanese girls
for the women. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Al actionheroes@ yahoo.com
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 5:04:52
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
mike brown You mentioned that someone you know sat in Japan for 3
years but became bitter because
@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 22:10:27
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hey Mike,
Beware, Buddha put all those cute Japanese girls there just to
distract you from the true path of enlightenment! :-)
Edgar
On Oct 1, 2008, at 6:47 AM, mike brown wrote:
Hi Al,
Still here
global warming. It depends. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 21:49:43
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV is the opposite
Hi Bill,
I'll take this as a compliment, or encouragement :) But please
remember I'm no master!
Margie (roloro1557)
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Margie,
In a recent post you wrote:
After Satori???
I fixed breakfast.
That's right-on with the traditional
Hi Anthony,
Alas she is only going to the west coast and I am stuck in the
midwest. Thank you for the story and recommendations. I will look into
Tibetan Buddhism.
Margie (roloro1557)
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Margie,
She is Tenzin Palmo,
. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 3:22:35
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Mike,
Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in saying that since they
run the monasteries
Hi Al,
Still here (Japan) as a matter of fact. It'll be 4 years this month. I came
here for the zen, but will stay for the women. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Al [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 5:04:52
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after
Message
From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 12:15:44
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hi Mike,
I'm glad we agree on some things and not others, if we agreed on
everything the discussion would be pretty boring :)
Please
@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf
Of Edgar Owen
Sent: Monday, September 29, 2008 8:27 AM
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that
sitting in a
monastery doing zazen
Margie, and Mike,
I'd certainly agree with Margie that watching TV is the opposite of
Zen mindfulness.
Edgar
On Sep 30, 2008, at 11:15 PM, roloro1557 wrote:
Hi Mike,
I'm glad we agree on some things and not others, if we agreed on
everything the discussion would be pretty boring :)
. If
they don't come that too is ok. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 3:22:35
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Mike,
Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in saying
, but will stay for the women. Mike.
- Original Message
From: Al [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 5:04:52
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
mike brown You mentioned that someone you know sat in Japan for 3
years but became bitter because
.
- Original Message
From: Al [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008 5:04:52
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
mike brown You mentioned that someone you know sat in Japan for 3
years but became bitter because they didn't experience satori
] Re: What's after Satori
mike brown You mentioned that someone you know sat in Japan for 3
years but became bitter because they didn't experience satori during
this time.
Weren't you in Japan for three years?
I have heard that after WWII American service men were taught Japanese by
woman. The men thought it was amusing that Americans spoke Japanese like
woman. GRIN
JODY
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk
--- On Tue, 30/9/08, roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Tuesday, 30 September, 2008, 8:00 AM
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Al actionheroes@ ... wrote:
So what happened, and how did
Hi Margie,
I would agree with your post. I lived in Japan for 3 years and did
plenty of sitting, but my path was facilitated much more walking the
mountains with the yamabushi and in various other non-sitting events
interacting with various enlightened spirits.
Osho's quote below is spot
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that
sitting in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste
of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori
Hi Margie,
Your words when the dancer becomes the dance or
the poem writes itself. are spot on.
To my mind there are two levels of Zen. The first is just
consciousness and realization. The second is active Zen, which is to
act in the world out of Zen directly. That requires becoming
The volume/degree of act out or flow through is called
merit There is no merit by just sitting, no matter where..
Edgar Owen wrote:
Hi Margie,
Your words when the dancer becomes the dance or
the poem writes itself. are spot on.
To my mind there are two levels of Zen. The
JM,
I don't think of Zen action as adding up pluses or minuses as the
term 'merit' suggests. That may be a useful idea in ordinary
Buddhism, but Zen transcends the notion of good or bad.
Edgar
On Sep 30, 2008, at 10:35 AM, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明 wrote:
The volume/degree of act out
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hi Mike,
See my response to Margie for more. Basically my point, like Osho's is that it
is a big mistake to think that just sitting and then forgetting about zen in
daily life is all that needs to be done or will work. Zen is mindfulness 24/7
in the daily world
. I would argue that the vast majority of
masters from Zen say the same thing.
- Original Message
From: Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 September, 2008 21:10:41
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Hi Mike,
See my response to Margie
roloro1557 as I said, all the overlays on my consciousness fell
away- there was no thought, no language, no nothing. The lightning
was. I was.
That is a near-death experience, similar to those where people get
incredible adrenaline rush and do superhuman things do to the
roloro1557 as I said, all the overlays on my consciousness fell
away- there was no thought, no language, no nothing. The lightning
was. I was.
That is a near-death experience, similar to those where people get
incredible adrenaline rush and do superhuman things do to the
mike brown You mentioned that someone you know sat in Japan for 3
years but became bitter because they didn't experience satori during
this time.
Weren't you in Japan for three years?
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or
Anthony Wu [EMAIL PROTECTED] Another lady spent 12 years in a cave in the
mountains, still not awakened. Do you want to know who she is? Or you
may already know.
The old woman who lived in a shoe?
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently
Edgar Owen Of course those 'masters' all have a vested interest in
saying that since they run the monasteries where people do zazen.
HO-HO-HO, HA-HA-HA!
Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are
reading! Talk about it
: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a
monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori
Hi Mike,
I'm glad we agree on some things and not others, if we agreed on
everything the discussion would be pretty boring :)
Please understand, I don't think getting engrossed in a football game
is what zen is all about, though I must tell you, certain music takes
me to a place that is very
Hi Anthony,
Yes, my Satori was 'out of the blue' along with the lightning. Maybe I
am lucky. I don't know about my previous lives.
Please do tell me about lady who spent 12 years in a cave, I would
like to hear the story.
Margie (roloro1557)
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Anthony Wu [EMAIL
PROTECTED]
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date: Wednesday, 1 October, 2008, 1:24 PM
Hi Anthony,
Yes, my Satori was 'out of the blue' along with the lightning. Maybe I
am lucky. I don't know about my previous lives.
Please do tell me about lady who spent 12
I really do think you're on to something. A couple of years ago the
insight occurred to me that Mary Daly was an avatar of Prajnaparamita.
I re-read her books this year (ooh, someone ACTUALLY reading what she
wrote) and that conclusion made even more sense to me.
--- In
One way I can describe my experience of Satori is that it was a
complete obliteration of all the overlays on my consciousness:
language, thought, future, past, role (wife, mother, etc). Even my
body disappeared (female, sore left arm, whether I was dressed, etc).
All the overlays foisted on me by
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting
in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One way I can describe my experience of Satori is that it was a
complete obliteration of
roloro1557 wrote:I didn't even know I'd had Satori until years later.
I knew something big or extremely unusual had happened to me, but I
had no words for it.
So what happened, and how did it happen, and what triggered the
satori? How do you know you had it if it is just a distant memory?
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice only for short periods of time. I hope to one day shed my
love of my material belongings and my
Our heart is the pureland and our body is our temple... Nothing else
needed.
cid830 wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice only
Oh, let me add and every sentient being and every suffering is our
nourishment
cid830 wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice
Margie,
+++Correction+++
Sorry, I meant to write thank you for posting, not for posing!
Thanks,
Chris
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and
Thank You, JM, I always enjoy your insight.
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Oh, let me add and every sentient being and every suffering is our
nourishment
cid830 wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Al [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
So what happened, and how did it happen, and what triggered the
satori? How do you know you had it if it is just a distant memory?
Have you ever had it again?
Hi Al-
What happened was the building I lived in was struck by
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Margie,
+++Correction+++
Sorry, I meant to write thank you for posting, not for posing!
Thanks,
Chris
Hi Chris-
s'ok, I knew what you meant :)
Margie (roloro1557)
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, cid830 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Welcome Margie. My name is Chris and I am a backsliding
practitioner. I have been practicing on and off for the past 20
years. It seems that I can maintain the discipline for a good
practice only for short periods of
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting
in a monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
Hi Edgar-
I think zazen and other forms of meditation are tools
Sent: Monday, 29 September, 2008 22:26:57
Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
Margie,
Very precise and to the point description. More evidence that sitting in a
monastery doing zazen for years is often just a waste of time.
Edgar
On Sep 29, 2008, at 7:37 AM, roloro1557 wrote:
One
a little longer. Mike.
- Original Message
From: roloro1557 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, 30 September, 2008 9:56:07
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] .. wrote:
Margie,
Very precise
Karin,
First there is a penis
Then there is no penis
Finally after satori there is the penis again.
:-)
Edgar
On Sep 22, 2008, at 1:10 AM, Karin wrote:
Bill Smart
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.
This is like a man's orgasm. I think this describes
I thought you said something smart once. Maybe that was another
Karin. I feel sorry for you. I just can't think of something happening
to me that would make me hate an entire gender of people. It must have
been bad. Maybe if you continue to read the non-prejudicial and
compassionate insights
Bill Smart
First there is a mountain,
Then there is no mountain,
Then there is.
This is like a man's orgasm. I think this describes it the best. I
hate men. I cannot imagine being with a man. It is disgusting. You men
all think the same. Even your Satori is somehow about your penises.
!
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Fri, 19/9/08, Bill Smart BillSmart@ wrote:
From: Bill Smart BillSmart@
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ps.com
Date: Friday, 19 September, 2008, 9:30 AM
JMJM,
1. Yes, I believe
If that is the case in Ox Herding, (I don't know what that is, please
provide link), then it coincide with our school's teaching. After
Satori, then one liberates every sentient being. In other words, enter
the mud and grow the lotus. Or cultivate the merit, on the way to
Buddhahood. Or
Well put, SimiNotes, since words do not count, neither are the
following.. I love it...
Our school teaches everyone to cultivate the chi and the chakras. In
Chinese, there is no word for mind. We have either heart or brain.
So, it is easy for us to say, let go of the brain and let the
ignore it, but I'm not obsessed with it either.
When horny, I have sex, if my partner is willing. Okay?
...Bill!
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Fri, 19/9/08, Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
From: Bill Smart [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
To: Zen_Forum
it, but I'm not obsessed with it either.
When horny, I have sex, if my partner is willing. Okay?
...Bill!
Regards,
Anthony
--- On Fri, 19/9/08, Bill Smart BillSmart@ wrote:
From: Bill Smart BillSmart@
Subject: [Zen] Re: What's after Satori
To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
Date
Thank you, Bill. JM
Bill Smart wrote:
JMJM,
There are many links which show these pictures. You can google 'zen
oxherding' or go to http://www.shambhala.org/dharma/ctr/oxherding/.
...Bill!
--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED]ps.com,
Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺妙精明
[EMAIL
peace and serenity...
and nothing special.living our lives and learning to be more
skillful.
no difference, satori no satori
just more aware...
nothing special
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Jue Miao Jing Ming - 覺å¦ç²¾æ
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Guys,
What
After satori some lose the ability to write complete sentences and
respond to everything in loosely connected phrases...
Just kidding! ;)
Siminotes, Welcome! I haven't seen you on the forum before. I hope
you will continue to participate. I enjoy your posts. I especially
enjoyed one a few
Hi, What I meant was, Edgar mentioned enlightenment comes after Satori.
Is there anything else we could to do to realize that? How about to be
Buddha? Do you talk about any of these? Do you talk about merit? Or
just slap on your face? Thanks, Donald ?
Bill Smart wrote:
After satori
JM,
No, I use satori and enlightenment as the same meaning. Traditionally
Buddhism teaches that Nirvana comes after enlightenment, nirvana
being final release when the spirit is no longer reborn and dissolves
into nothingness, but Zen says that is simply what happens upon death
since
JMJM,
'Satori' is a term used in Japanese Zen Buddhism to describe the
first awakening. It is thought to come suddenly (even though there
might have been a lot of preparation), and is thought to be temporary
(does not last a long time - maybe just minutes with a strong memory
or sense of
JMJM,
I screwed up. 'Satori' is a full awakening or enlightenment. As far
as I'm concerned there is nothing more to realize after satori. As
far as being 'buddha', we are all buddha right now. I've never heard
anyone talk about 'merit' in relationship to satori or
enlightenment. Maybe
hello Bill and Cid and group. Thank you for the welcome .
Its been a couple of years since reading here.
I am 52, white female, Northwestern Texas.
a simple gal in a simple place.
nothing special.
Married, 3 daughters, 6 grandchildren.
just a student having encountered the Zen Path one day when
Bill,
I don't think satori is a term used just for a first awakening
implying there may be others. There is some disagreement, but in
almost all of the Zen enlightenment stories satori is described as if
it is a permanent and irreversible transition. Frankly I doubt that
is true in all
Edgar,
You are right. I corrected this post in a subsequent post. I
wrote 'satori' but meant 'kensho'.
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Edgar Owen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Bill,
I don't think satori is a term used just for a first awakening
implying there may be others.
Thank you guys for trying. Two more questions:
1. Is satori enlightenment?
2. If you agree that Satori is an irreversible transition. Then it
could be what we called, witness the Original Self. I don't know
whether zen has similar term?
Thanks, JM
Bill Smart wrote:
Edgar,
You are
JMJM,
1. Yes, I believe the term 'satori' and the term 'enlightnement'
mean the same thing.
2. Satori could indeed be called as you suggest 'witness the
Original Self'. One of the 'breakthrough' koans used to
induce 'kensho' (first experience of satori) is 'Show me your face
before your
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