Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Do not need any memory, google has a lot of it. On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 12:10 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > Why is relevant? > > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Peter Gluck > wrote: > >> so I have a good memory or not? >> can you answer? >>

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Why is relevant? On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:46 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > so I have a good memory or not? > can you answer? > peter > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Giovanni Santostasi < > gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> And? >> >> On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM,

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Peter Gluck
so I have a good memory or not? can you answer? peter On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:35 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > And? > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Peter Gluck > wrote: > >> Giovanni, just to check my memory- aren't you a known

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
And? On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 11:23 AM, Peter Gluck wrote: > Giovanni, just to check my memory- aren't you a known transhumanism > author too, or it is only a coincidence of names? > peter > > On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Giovanni Santostasi < > gsantost...@gmail.com>

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Peter Gluck
Giovanni, just to check my memory- aren't you a known transhumanism author too, or it is only a coincidence of names? peter On Mon, Aug 15, 2016 at 6:06 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > Please check my thread "customer warehouse". I show different types of > calculations

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Please check my thread "customer warehouse". I show different types of calculations to demonstrate how nonsensical Rossi's claims are. Somebody should check my calculations are correct but I will share later the MatLab code I used. One could do these calculations also as Fermi problems in their

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Jack Cole
Adrian, Actually, people asked AR if the process was endothermic and he said "Yes." When later asked if the heat that was not used was collected in water, he responded "Yes." People should consider that they are engaging in crowd sourced excuse making for him. He just has to sit back and wait

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-15 Thread Bob Higgins
While the engines example of energy production is frequently used, the engines would have to be running full bore constantly. I like Peter Van Noorden's example of the energy for 1MW for 350 days - about 1/3 the energy of a Hiroshima size nuclear bomb. That is truly a lot of Joules to hide. If

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Daniel Rocha
2 or 3 large trucks motors can use up to 1MW. 2016-08-15 0:23 GMT-03:00 Giovanni Santostasi : > I will come up with other type of physical processes and chemical > reactions in the next few days and we can see how many tons of chemicals > you will need. > >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Daniel Rocha
There is an exit in the ceiling. It's simple. 2016-08-14 21:34 GMT-03:00 Giovanni Santostasi : > > The main discussion we had in the last few days was about where the heat > is dumped. >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
A.ashfield please check my thread "customer warehouse" for simplified physics models of energy dumping and what all the energy would do to that warehouse. I used the real dimension of the warehouse the "customer" used and filled it full of water. In 16 days the water would boil. I filled with ice

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
Sorry, you should read what Rossi actually said before making a statement like that. Rossi said that the customer's process was endothermic and the excess heat beyond that was vented. He didn't add how much was by air or radiation and how much through cooling water going to the drain. On

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Daniel, The main discussion we had in the last few days was about where the heat is dumped. This is basic thermodynamics not sophisticated arguments about Coulomb barrier shielding and so on. Rossi claiming that the energy was used by chemical reactions and therefore this why it didn't leave a

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Daniel Rocha
What field of expertise? This kind of argument is also used to "show" that cold fusion is bullshit. 2016-08-14 19:35 GMT-03:00 Giovanni Santostasi : > I have a PhD in Physics so I understand the basics of energy, >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
I have a PhD in Physics so I understand the basics of energy, power and so on. And I do not need a PhD in physics to understand that the Rossi statements are bs. By the way it seems crazy you are saying I use ad hominem (please mention where that happened exactly) and then you use ad hominem

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
I looked well enough. As I surmised you have zero plant and operating experience. In your recent comments you continue with ad hominems and I understand the meaning of that phrase very well too. On 8/14/2016 6:13 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: You didn't look good enough. I have a PhD in

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
You should be able to see my gmail address. I see yours. On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 6:13 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > You didn't look good enough. > > I have a PhD in Physics. My original field of expertise was astrophysics > and in particular gravitational waves. Half

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
You didn't look good enough. I have a PhD in Physics. My original field of expertise was astrophysics and in particular gravitational waves. Half of my dissertation was on astrophysics of neutron stars (so I know 1 or 2 things about nuclear reactions) and the other was on improving signal

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
The only Giovanni Santostasi I saw on Google was an associate neuroscientist at Northwestern University working on sleep disorders. If that's you, you appear to have no relevant experience regarding the 1 MW plant. Knowing you disbelieve anything I write, here is a published footnote at the

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
A link to a CV or linkedin takes a second. Not acceptable answer that you did this on the past. You are using your claim of experience right now. What is your real name? It is you that is using arguments from authority. Mine stand on their own. And as I said, you can google my name and see what is

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
I have already done so on this blog in the past. Please answer the question. On 8/14/2016 4:20 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: Besides what I have said about using "argument from authority" as a way to win a debate, can you please give us a link to your CV a.ashfield? Can you back up your

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Please answer mine about your CV given that you are the one saying you have all this experience. Being a fanatical supporter of Rossi it is expected that evidence means nothing to you. Giovanni PS Differently from you, I'm very easily googable. On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 4:21 PM, a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
Please answer my question. What experience do you have? On 8/14/2016 4:10 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: A.ashfield: "Ad hominem" attacks. To quote a famous immortal scene from the "Princess Bride": "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means". I didn't

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Besides what I have said about using "argument from authority" as a way to win a debate, can you please give us a link to your CV a.ashfield? Can you back up your claims to have such expertise? Thanks, Giovanni On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 4:10 PM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote:

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Also I don't want to hear anymore about Levy and any other so called scientific experiment unless the experiment was fully open and under the control of the experimenter. I don't know of any real experiment that is done in that way. It is true that in some double blinded experiments the

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
A.ashfield: "Ad hominem" attacks. To quote a famous immortal scene from the "Princess Bride": "You keep using that word. I don't think it means what you think it means". I didn't attack anybody at hominem. I didn't put down Penon not to have a PhD. I simply stated that Rossi saying he has a

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
Giovanni, Your string of ad hominem attacks do nothing to clarify the issues and reflect badly on you. I find Dr. Levi's 18 hour test of an E-Cat in 2011, without steam, finding a COP 15 -20kW peaking at 130 kW is good proof that the E-Cat produces considerable excess heat. As I've said,

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Jed Rothwell
Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > Not that you need a PhD to be a good engineer. Most engineers do not have > a PhD. > > But I want to point out again how sloppy (in the best of interpretation) > or intentional misleading Rossi is in repeating that Penon has a Doctorate. >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
So here it is: Penon CV: http://www.cobraf.com/forum/immagini/R_123620809_1.pdf I realize now (from reading old posts online that raised similar issue) this is an old topic that come out previously. I can verify Laurea is not a Doctorate and this is what Penon has, a Laurea. Not that you need a

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Notice what Rossi does in his response to Rends. He talks in a misleading way about the qualificatications of Penon (Rossi says Penon has a doctorate when he does not). Then he goes in saying that IH was ok with the quarterly reports for 3 quarters and only at the time of the 4th report they

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
I think Rossi is refering to Penon when he talks about the guy that got a Doctorate in Nuclear Engineering at 23 years old. The guy is too old actually to have a Doctorate given that they didn't exist in Italy when Penon was in his twenties. Laurea was all what you needed to be called a Doctor

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
Who is the guy that got the doctorate in nuclear engineering? Rossi is likely lying and misleading about this or at minimum being sloppy as usual. In Italy we have Laurea (that is like a master that you start after high school) that in a hard field like physics or engineering can take up to 6-7

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: Either Rossi or IH are lying. I hope the ERV's report will shed some light > on who is telling the truth. > The ERV claims the flow rate was exactly 36,000 kg per day, the pressure 0.0 bar, and the system produced 1 MW on days when Rossi said it was

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
Either Rossi or IH are lying. I hope the ERV's report will shed some light on who is telling the truth. On 8/14/2016 11:31 AM, Eric Walker wrote: (1) Rossi might not be telling the truth. (2) Rossi does not really answer Rends's question. :) Eric On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 10:05 AM,

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread Eric Walker
(1) Rossi might not be telling the truth. (2) Rossi does not really answer Rends's question. :) Eric On Sun, Aug 14, 2016 at 10:05 AM, a.ashfield wrote: > Eric, I had read your comment before answering. > Further to my comment about the negative things written about

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-14 Thread a.ashfield
Eric, I had read your comment before answering. Further to my comment about the negative things written about Rossi and the ERV on this blog, particularly by Jed giving IH's point of view, it might even up the score a little to show what Rossi wrote recently. 1. Andrea Rossi August 13,

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
> On Aug 13, 2016, at 19:21, a.ashfield wrote: > > Come on Eric. The basic case is that Rossi said IH failed to pay him. > Obviously if there had not been a contract IH would have answered it that way. Have you had a chance to read the answer yet? If not, I highly

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
Come on Eric. The basic case is that Rossi said IH failed to pay him. Obviously if there had not been a contract IH would have answered it that way. On 8/13/2016 7:51 PM, Eric Walker wrote: On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 6:43 PM, a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 6:43 PM, a.ashfield wrote: If there had been no contract this would have been mentioned in the motion > to dismiss - and the casewould have been thrown out. Do you really > think Rossi made it up about the $89 million? > If there is such a

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
If there had been no contract this would have been mentioned in the motion to dismiss - and the casewould have been thrown out. Do you really think Rossi made it up about the $89 million? On 8/13/2016 7:27 PM, Eric Walker wrote: On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:59 PM, a.ashfield

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 5:59 PM, a.ashfield wrote: The case would have been thrown out of court already if there weren't some > sort of contract for the performance test. > That's incorrect. There has been no assessment of facts as of yet. There was the Complaint, with

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
The case would have been thrown out of court already if there weren't some sort of contract for the performance test. Rossi said he was waiting in vain for IH to come up with a customer and it does seem strange to me, that with all their contacts, they didn't. Apparently we will have to wait for

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Jack Cole
inkId=550986> for > Windows 10 > > > > *From: *a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net> > *Sent: *Saturday, August 13, 2016 10:14 AM > *To: *vortex-l@eskimo.com > > > *Subject: *Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! > > > As you think an IT's unsign

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 1:33 PM, a.ashfield wrote: Why didn't IH/Cherokee come up with a customer for a whole year? They > forced Rossi to do something himself. It looks to me that they never > wanted the test where they might have to pay Rossi $89 million but wanted >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
: Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2016 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! David You noted the following: "The manual describing how to use this device does mention that it needs to be kep

RE: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Bob Cook
.@aol.com> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 10:47 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! Bob, You are describing a connection that would be ideal and likely accurately monitor the water flow rate. The key ingredie

RE: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Bob Cook
<https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986> for Windows 10 From: a.ashfield<mailto:a.ashfi...@verizon.net> Sent: Saturday, August 13, 2016 10:14 AM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com<mailto:vortex-l@eskimo.com> Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! As you think an IT

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread David Roberson
of the overall control system. Dave -Original Message- From: Bob Cook <frobertc...@hotmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Sat, Aug 13, 2016 1:56 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! David You noted the following: "The

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
Eric, "Their position, that Rossi went outside of the terms of the Guaranteed Performance Test, " Why didn't IH/Cherokee come up with a customer for a whole year? They forced Rossi to do something himself. It looks to me that they never wanted the test where they might have to pay Rossi $89

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: As you think an IT's unsigned,report, who worked for IH, is as good as the > ERV's report there is no point in discussing this further. > 1. The report was signed. For some reason the signature was not included in the Exhibit. 2. The ERV was also being

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
As you think an IT's unsigned,report, who worked for IH, is as good as the ERV's report there is no point in discussing this further. On 8/13/2016 11:57 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: a.ashfield > wrote: If IH had real concerns it is

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Bob Cook
alve would be the best option to control flow. Bob Cook From: David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> Sent: Friday, August 12, 2016 2:03 PM To: vortex-l@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! I agree that it would be better to i

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 10:33 AM, a.ashfield wrote: > My reading is that IH had very little in-house expertise Yes. They're venture capitalists. They don't maintain in-house expertise. I suppose they have a nice office with coffee machines and other venture

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: If IH had real concerns it is inconceivable to me they didn't do something > about it until after the test was completed. > It would be inconceivable to me, too. But I know they did various things long before the test ended. Once again, you assume that

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
If IH had real concerns it is inconceivable to me they didn't do something about it until after the test was completed. You have never provided proof the flow was less than Rossi stated. Still no piping diagram, still no ERV report. The contract called for ~ 1MW with a COP>6 for 340(?) days

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
Eric, My reading is that IH had very little in-house expertise so hired gunman Murray. Murray apparently felt the need to justify his existence and as an IT guy does not seem to have expertise in the areas he is criticizing. He was probably pissed that he had not been allowed in the plant

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: > So it was Murray who raised the alarm at the last minute . . . Alarms were raised throughout the test, and made known to many people, including me. Your assertion that this happened only at the end is factually incorrect. I expect you will go on

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread Eric Walker
On Sat, Aug 13, 2016 at 8:32 AM, a.ashfield wrote: The revised answer from IH says: > "82. Indeed, when Murray eventually gained access to the Plant in February > 2016 and examined the Plant," > > So it doesn't look like Murray got access to the plant until after it was >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-13 Thread a.ashfield
The revised answer from IH says: "82. Indeed, when Murray eventually gained access to the Plant in February 2016 and examined the Plant," So it doesn't look like Murray got access to the plant until after it was shut down. It looks like IH didn't think there was much wrong before that or

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
Stephen A. Lawrence wrote: > Penon wasn't in line to receive the 89 mil, nor any significant fraction > of it, so why would he care? > Perhaps Rossi offered him a share. He could afford to be generous with $89 million. - Jed

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Stephen A. Lawrence
and tables of their operational parameters as a function of power input. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2016 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! Da

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Che
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 11:05 AM, Eric Walker wrote: > On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Giovanni Santostasi < > gsantost...@gmail.com> wrote: > > What I don't understand is why there are not ongoing criminal >> investigations for Rossi, Fabian and Penon, the fraudulent

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Eric Walker
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 5:31 PM, a.ashfield wrote: More idle speculation. Wait until Penon's report surfaces and let's see > what he really said. > Hardly idle speculation! Just pointing out the obvious. It does not appear to be obvious to you. Once the report comes

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread a.ashfield
More idle speculation. Wait until Penon's report surfaces and let's see what he really said. Presumably the flow meter goes on reading the running total and the average flow rate mentioned is simply the total divided by the number of days - less 10% that Rossi persuaded Penon to reduce the

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Eric Walker
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:59 PM, David Roberson wrote: So, it would not surprise me too greatly to find that Penon became > extremely bored making the same readings day in and out until he placed > data into the log that assumed everything continued as it had for many long >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread David Roberson
thw...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2016 4:39 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! David Roberson <dlrober...@aol.com> wrote: So, it would not surprise me too greatly to find that Penon became extremely bored making

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
David Roberson wrote: So, it would not surprise me too greatly to find that Penon became > extremely bored making the same readings day in and out until he placed > data into the log that assumed everything continued as it had for many long > previous periods of time. That

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread David Roberson
might be in question. Dave -Original Message- From: Jed Rothwell <jedrothw...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Fri, Aug 12, 2016 3:18 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@ver

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
There are 3 logical possibilities: 1) a.ashfield is a troll, he is doing this just for fun, 2) a.shfield is a shrill paid by Rossi 3) a.shfield is a self-deluded believer of Rossi crackpottery at any cost. Possible combinations of 1 to 3 are also possible. On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 2:36 PM,

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2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: It is fairly simple why. The only unbiased observer, the paid expert ERV > Penon, says the plant worked. > He also said the flow was exactly 36,000 kg per day, and the reactor produced heat on days when Rossi informed the world it was turned off. How

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2016-08-12 Thread a.ashfield
It is fairly simple why. The only unbiased observer, the paid expert ERV Penon, says the plant worked. Rossi took IH to court, where the facts will be made known, because IH failed to pay him what they had agreed on. It wasn't IH taking Rossi to court. You have it backwards. On 8/12/2016

RE: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Russ George
: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! a.ashfield <a.ashfi...@verizon.net <mailto:a.ashfi...@verizon.net> > wrote: I have maintained from the beginning it was too early to tell the performance of the plant until more FACTS were available The facts are n

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: > You left out most of what I wrote, cherry picking like Murray does. > I will not respond in detail because you apparently think I am a liar. There is nothing I can say in response to that accusation. Any fact I bring to light you will disregard,

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
How somebody can read the following email of Rossi and still not "get it"? He has a conniving mind, zero loyalty and it is evident he is capable of manipulating experiments, "making up discussions" whatever that means, taking advantage of people and situations. Given his already tattered past, it

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
Giovanni Santostasi wrote: > What I don't understand is why there are not ongoing criminal > investigations for Rossi, Fabian and Penon, the fraudulent gang, instead of > only civil law implications. > If there were such investigations, I doubt we would hear about them.

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2016-08-12 Thread a.ashfield
Jed, You left out most of what I wrote, cherry picking like Murray does. You claim to know what I WILL think. What you write is not believable. You are wrong about that too. On 8/12/2016 9:56 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: a.ashfield > wrote:

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Eric Walker
On Fri, Aug 12, 2016 at 9:44 AM, Giovanni Santostasi wrote: What I don't understand is why there are not ongoing criminal > investigations for Rossi, Fabian and Penon, the fraudulent gang, instead of > only civil law implications. > This is something I've been wondering

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-12 Thread Giovanni Santostasi
What I don't understand is why there are not ongoing criminal investigations for Rossi, Fabian and Penon, the fraudulent gang, instead of only civil law implications. It is likely that Rossi and company activities were criminal and not just bad business practices. It saddens me to say this about

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2016-08-12 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: > Jed Rossi and Penon stuffed their data tables with identical & impossible > numbers, and they showed excess power on days when Rossi in his blog said > the machine was turned off. > AA How can one tell that without seeing Penon's report? Second hand

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2016-08-12 Thread a.ashfield
Jed, AA ,I have maintained from the beginning it was too early to tell the performance of the plant until more FACTS were available Jed The facts are now available. AA. Oh Yes? Where can I see Penon's report or a piping diagram? AA You were wrong about Vaughn not being emp;poyed by

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: I have maintained from the beginning it was too early to tell the > performance of the plant until more FACTS were available > The facts are now available. > Saying that you know but it is secret doesn't wash. > All of my important secrets were

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread a.ashfield
I have maintained from the beginning it was too early to tell the performance of the plant until more FACTS were available Saying that you know but it is secret doesn't wash. You were wrong about Vaughn not being emp;poyed by Cherokee. The so called secret things that came out with Exhibit 5

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: > If there had been some way of determining how full the pipe was, besides > stains, Murray would have mentioned it. > There are other ways, and he did mention them. But not to you. Not yet. Again, you suffer from the illusion that fact X which you

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
Craig Haynie wrote: > But this is the point: You can't prove that we live in an Objective > Universe. You can't prove that you're not in some computer simulation . . . > True. But you don't have to prove it. You just have to show it is very likely, with the fewest

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Che
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:26 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: > > > On 08/11/2016 06:21 PM, Che wrote: > > > > But this is the point: You can't prove that we live in an Objective >> Universe. You can't prove that you're not in some computer simulation, and >> that the people

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Craig Haynie
On 08/11/2016 06:21 PM, Che wrote: But this is the point: You can't prove that we live in an Objective Universe. You can't prove that you're not in some computer simulation, and that the people around you are real. You can't prove your axioms. That's why they're axioms. We

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Craig Haynie
On 08/11/2016 05:47 PM, Che wrote: On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Craig Haynie > wrote: Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe. Craig Having faith in things which can be proven to be true or not

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Che
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 6:17 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: > On 08/11/2016 05:47 PM, Che wrote: > > > > On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Craig Haynie > wrote: > >> >> >> Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe. >> >> Craig >> >> >

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Che
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:33 PM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > > > The word "faith" has several definitions. It means different things. > The #1 reason why people argue futilely (in good 'faith'; deception is irrelevant here) -- anywhere, for any reason -- is because at least one

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Che
On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:22 PM, Craig Haynie wrote: > > >>>The word "faithful" has no place in science or engineering. > >>> > >>>- Jed > > > Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe. > > Craig > > Having faith in things which can be proven to be true

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread David Roberson
-Original Message- From: Axil Axil <janap...@gmail.com> To: vortex-l <vortex-l@eskimo.com> Sent: Thu, Aug 11, 2016 3:45 pm Subject: Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too! The enemies of LENR will persist in using this flow meter meme until it is shown to be a fa

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Axil Axil
The enemies of LENR will persist in using this flow meter meme until it is shown to be a fantasy. Bob Greenyer mentioned that it might be time to verify the Rossi flow meter to see how it could be defeated in experiments. MFMP can then become a friend of the court and offer unbiased experimental

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
Craig Haynie wrote: > >>>The word "faithful" has no place in science or engineering. > >>> > >>>- Jed > > > Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe. > I think that is more confidence than faith. Per David Hume's philosophy. The word "faith" has

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Craig Haynie
>>>The word "faithful" has no place in science or engineering. - Jed Actually, you have to have faith in an objective Universe. Craig

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Peter Gluck
the manual warns agains dispersion of air in the pipe not flowing half full. I have a plumber friend indeed but he will not know how to make this strange thing. Are yo aware of what you say? Do you take responsibility? I understand everything- your role in this affair, your methods, your

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Gluck wrote: > and how could they been seen as having rusty stains demonstrating your > absurd " half full" idea? > Half full pipes are common, not absurd. If they were absurd, the manufacturer would not warn against them in the manual. How were they seen . . .

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Peter Gluck
thanks, and how could they been seen as having rusty stains demonstrating your absurd " half full" idea? Sincerely this is the most stupid idea heard in this year- why do you insist? You risk to become "half full Jed." NOT Rossi has said this! Retract it and remember you was once a LENR

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Jed Rothwell
Peter Gluck wrote: do you know exactly what are and what function have "static vanes" > and where are they placed in the piping? > I do not know. It sounds like part of the rotor mechanism that does not turn. Perhaps it is the thing called the "łożyska twarde" (Polish) in

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-11 Thread Peter Gluck
Jed, do you know exactly what are and what function have "static vanes" and where are they placed in the piping? peter On Thu, Aug 11, 2016 at 2:40 AM, Jed Rothwell wrote: > a.ashfield wrote: > > No. All I have from IH is second hand information

Re: [Vo]:angry and sad LENR comment but info too!

2016-08-10 Thread Jed Rothwell
a.ashfield wrote: No. All I have from IH is second hand information from you that Murray > says. > That's better than second hand information from Rossi. > I have pointed out errors in exhibit 5. > You have pointed out what you believe to be errors, but you are

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