Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Well Mk3 had it's moments for easter eggs that was true, especially things like the extra stage fatalities like knocking your opponent onto the train tracks and seeing them smooshed by the treain. I just didn't like the dialacombo system, neither did I think much to many of the new characters who were added like night wolf and Kabal, indeed it says something that after original Mk3 dropped a lot of people's favourite characters like Scorpian Kitana and Raiden they actually had to produce a second (and indeed third and fourth), versions of the game with them back. It actually amuses me in the Mk story, that for a game series renowned for it's ways of brutally slaying characters, no characters actually get to exit the story at all :D. This is again why I personally liked 2 best. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance LOL. I also liked Liu-Kang's Dragon Snack fatality where he turned into a dragon and either ate the other guy or just bit his head off. I actually liked MK3 and more specifically Ultimate MK 3(which is the version I own), partly because I love the music and sound effects. Some of the Easter eggs were pretty cool too. I loved playing as Motaro and Shao Kahn in two-player matches, especially beating the other player into submission with Shao Kahn's hammer. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:31 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. Your right that I probably ought to have said serious rather than realistic, though my point was rather to do with thier plot, atmosphere and setting than actual levels of realism. You are right though, the Mk games are almost like the Monty Python black knight fight in terms of gore, there, especially after you blow someone's head off or chop them in half the rest of them just stands there with blood spurting out :D. Mk2 is likely still my favourite mk game, sinse it was before the plot went off the rails and stupid, when they'd just started experimenting with fatalities and expanding the combat engine but hadn't just dragged things out the way they did with Mk3. I particularly like Jax's arm rip off fatality in that one, just because it's amusing to watch the opponent simply stand there as jacks tosses their arms away and poses, I also love the Kitana's kiss and blow up fatality, not only because the idea of a kiss making someone explode is so ridiculous, especially the sort of noise the opponent makes as their body swells to bursting point which sounds actually a little like their going to be sick :D. Then again deadly alliance, which is the only modern mk game I've played has some funny moments, I like Quan Chi's fatality where he leaps onto the opponent's shoulders and makes their kneck stretch out until it's around four foot long :D. I've not played any after that sinse either they were on consoles I didn't own (and wouldn't buy the console just for beat em ups), or, as in the case of deception they had a completely 3D inaccessible story mode. I really enjoyed the story mode of MkDa and soul calibur sinse with a faq to read the text it was a great way to get the game. Then again the plot seemed to go very off the rails anyway after that. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Well, you are in luck. I found a copy of Super Tux for Windows at http://supertux.lethargik.org/download.html as well as Mac and Linux downloads. You might want to swing by there and give the game a try. They have both the stable and developmental versions available, and I for one am going to grab a copy to install on my son's PC since he loves the game. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. If there were a windows version I'd certainly give it a try and see if my level of sight would let me play it. While I don't particularly scour the net for graphical windows games because finding something that my level of sight and my inability to read text can cope with can be a little frustrating I have found some graphical windows games I have had lots of fun with, most noteably some awsome Turrican remakes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. Thanks a lot for the link. I confess it took me a while to start the game sinse annoyingly the manual doesn't mention the menu options or what screens you needed to go through, indeed I was actually looking for my character on what I thought was the main screen and what turned out to be another menu screen :D. I also do rather wish there was a high contrast option, or just the ability to turn the sky off, sinse the background is very bright and blue, (ice and sky environments were always my lleast favourite for contrast). That being said I can see from playing the game why your son enjoys it. things move more quickly than in Marrio, though it has several very similar mechanics and in game elements. Tux doesn't seem to have as bad stopping distance as Mario did, but that might just be because my sight is forcing me to play the game more slowly so I don't often have the penguin running at his top speed. I'll definitely see what I can do with the game, and also show it to my dad who is a big Mario fan, maybe ask a friend to look over the menus for me, sinse I imagine once I finish a level and want to restart at the same place I'll need to know where that option is. All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Well, you are in luck. I found a copy of Super Tux for Windows at http://supertux.lethargik.org/download.html as well as Mac and Linux downloads. You might want to swing by there and give the game a try. They have both the stable and developmental versions available, and I for one am going to grab a copy to install on my son's PC since he loves the game. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. If there were a windows version I'd certainly give it a try and see if my level of sight would let me play it. While I don't particularly scour the net for graphical windows games because finding something that my level of sight and my inability to read text can cope with can be a little frustrating I have found some graphical windows games I have had lots of fun with, most noteably some awsome Turrican remakes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
well the basic version could be done on bgt but its meaningless if there is no structure to this. Someone tried to make mario in python and then in bgt and sonic the hedgehog with real sfx and music but none of these ever really got off the ground so there is probably more to converting this stuff than meets the eye. At 12:28 a.m. 29/05/2014, you wrote: Hi Dark, Sure. Too bad Super Tux isn't accessible as I think you and a lot of others would really enjoy it. The basic concept of the game is you play Tux, the Linux penguin, as he travels through his icy world doing a lot of things Mario does such as breaking blocks of ice, jumping over patches of ice, and can shrink, grow bigger, or throw fireballs, etc. Obviously, not being accessible I haven't played it myself, but my son loves the game and plays it all the time. I have thought many times of trying to see what would need to be done to add some sort of access to that game. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Ah, I didn't realize Supertux was lynux only or who this Tux character was. I wouldn't worry about another port, particularly of a graphical game that won't be accessible either to yourself or to other members of the community, I was just vaguely interested sinse it's always nice to find new things to try out. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Shaun, Well, for one thing a lot of the items in Mario, for example, wouldn't have real world sounds. There are flowers that make Mario grow, shrink, shoot fireballs, etc. I have often wondered since flowers do not have a specific sound how one is suppose to make them accessible other than using a beep to indicate where they are or something similar. There are other items and such in Mario that have no exact audio counterpart to the graphics making it somewhat tricky to figure out how to make Mario's world come alive in audio. Not saying it can't be done just requires some extra work to make non-auditory items auditory. This is probably a case where designing a game like Mario from a completely auditory perspective than recreating the classic game would be useful. Cheers! On 5/29/14, Shaun Everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: well the basic version could be done on bgt but its meaningless if there is no structure to this. Someone tried to make mario in python and then in bgt and sonic the hedgehog with real sfx and music but none of these ever really got off the ground so there is probably more to converting this stuff than meets the eye. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Glad you like it. As it so happens when I started having vision troubles snow and ice environments against a blue sky gave me a lot of troubles too. That seems to be a common contrast problem for people with visual disabilities. All the same I am interested in looking at the code and the mechanics of the game as I think they may give me some ideas how to improve my own designs. Cheers! On 5/29/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Thanks a lot for the link. I confess it took me a while to start the game sinse annoyingly the manual doesn't mention the menu options or what screens you needed to go through, indeed I was actually looking for my character on what I thought was the main screen and what turned out to be another menu screen :D. I also do rather wish there was a high contrast option, or just the ability to turn the sky off, sinse the background is very bright and blue, (ice and sky environments were always my lleast favourite for contrast). That being said I can see from playing the game why your son enjoys it. things move more quickly than in Marrio, though it has several very similar mechanics and in game elements. Tux doesn't seem to have as bad stopping distance as Mario did, but that might just be because my sight is forcing me to play the game more slowly so I don't often have the penguin running at his top speed. I'll definitely see what I can do with the game, and also show it to my dad who is a big Mario fan, maybe ask a friend to look over the menus for me, sinse I imagine once I finish a level and want to restart at the same place I'll need to know where that option is. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I think the contrast thing is fairly general and doesn't just apply to games, sinse any bright background can glare a lot and overwhelm certain objects, while it's much easier to pinpoint a light object on a dark background. I will see what I can do with the game though, sinse hopefully like Mario there are some different backgrounds in the game that might be better. In terms of code and mechanics though, tux's jumps and movements would be a good place to start. I believe as I said he moves more quickly than mario, his stopping distance for normal jumps also doesn't seem quite as bad, but all of these are things you can tinker with from game to game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. To be honest realism seems more a matter of what type of game you want to make. I can after all think of lots of great games which range from totally surreal, often cutesy affairs such as Mario, James Pond, bubble bobble, several Kirby games, to ultra serious quests to save the universe, often with adult themes and sometimes even with realistic or semi realistic levels of violence. Mortal Combat, doom, several games tied into films like The Terminator etc. In audio games thus far, games like Q9 Kirtwolf and Superliam are about as far down the surreal and sometimes Cutesy road as audio games have gone. These games are more like super hero commics or tv series, but there is no reason not to go a little more weerd, indeed part of what has made short games of the more surreal type such as Kringle crash popular has been this aspect. So, if you werecreating an audio marrio, or even an audio game with a similar character and style as Supertux did, I don't see why you couldn't also use similarly weerd jingles and indicators, it all depends upon what style of thing you want, which is totally separate from how good a game it is. BEware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Kombat in Mortal Kombat is actually spelled with a K rather than a C. I wouldn't call it realistic though considering some of the things the characters can do to each other when it comes to the Fatalities. Swallowing someone whole and then spitting out the bones for instance. LOL. I think my favorite was always Rayden electrocuting his opponents and then making them explode. I actually used to be pretty good at the SNES MK games, to the point tat I'd actall piss off a lot of sighted friends whe I'd beat them. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 12:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Tom. To be honest realism seems more a matter of what type of game you want to make. I can after all think of lots of great games which range from totally surreal, often cutesy affairs such as Mario, James Pond, bubble bobble, several Kirby games, to ultra serious quests to save the universe, often with adult themes and sometimes even with realistic or semi realistic levels of violence. Mortal Combat, doom, several games tied into films like The Terminator etc. In audio games thus far, games like Q9 Kirtwolf and Superliam are about as far down the surreal and sometimes Cutesy road as audio games have gone. These games are more like super hero commics or tv series, but there is no reason not to go a little more weerd, indeed part of what has made short games of the more surreal type such as Kringle crash popular has been this aspect. So, if you werecreating an audio marrio, or even an audio game with a similar character and style as Supertux did, I don't see why you couldn't also use similarly weerd jingles and indicators, it all depends upon what style of thing you want, which is totally separate from how good a game it is. BEware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan. Your right that I probably ought to have said serious rather than realistic, though my point was rather to do with thier plot, atmosphere and setting than actual levels of realism. You are right though, the Mk games are almost like the Monty Python black knight fight in terms of gore, there, especially after you blow someone's head off or chop them in half the rest of them just stands there with blood spurting out :D. Mk2 is likely still my favourite mk game, sinse it was before the plot went off the rails and stupid, when they'd just started experimenting with fatalities and expanding the combat engine but hadn't just dragged things out the way they did with Mk3. I particularly like Jax's arm rip off fatality in that one, just because it's amusing to watch the opponent simply stand there as jacks tosses their arms away and poses, I also love the Kitana's kiss and blow up fatality, not only because the idea of a kiss making someone explode is so ridiculous, especially the sort of noise the opponent makes as their body swells to bursting point which sounds actually a little like their going to be sick :D. Then again deadly alliance, which is the only modern mk game I've played has some funny moments, I like Quan Chi's fatality where he leaps onto the opponent's shoulders and makes their kneck stretch out until it's around four foot long :D. I've not played any after that sinse either they were on consoles I didn't own (and wouldn't buy the console just for beat em ups), or, as in the case of deception they had a completely 3D inaccessible story mode. I really enjoyed the story mode of MkDa and soul calibur sinse with a faq to read the text it was a great way to get the game. Then again the plot seemed to go very off the rails anyway after that. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
LOL. I also liked Liu-Kang's Dragon Snack fatality where he turned into a dragon and either ate the other guy or just bit his head off. I actually liked MK3 and more specifically Ultimate MK 3(which is the version I own), partly because I love the music and sound effects. Some of the Easter eggs were pretty cool too. I loved playing as Motaro and Shao Kahn in two-player matches, especially beating the other player into submission with Shao Kahn's hammer. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:31 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. Your right that I probably ought to have said serious rather than realistic, though my point was rather to do with thier plot, atmosphere and setting than actual levels of realism. You are right though, the Mk games are almost like the Monty Python black knight fight in terms of gore, there, especially after you blow someone's head off or chop them in half the rest of them just stands there with blood spurting out :D. Mk2 is likely still my favourite mk game, sinse it was before the plot went off the rails and stupid, when they'd just started experimenting with fatalities and expanding the combat engine but hadn't just dragged things out the way they did with Mk3. I particularly like Jax's arm rip off fatality in that one, just because it's amusing to watch the opponent simply stand there as jacks tosses their arms away and poses, I also love the Kitana's kiss and blow up fatality, not only because the idea of a kiss making someone explode is so ridiculous, especially the sort of noise the opponent makes as their body swells to bursting point which sounds actually a little like their going to be sick :D. Then again deadly alliance, which is the only modern mk game I've played has some funny moments, I like Quan Chi's fatality where he leaps onto the opponent's shoulders and makes their kneck stretch out until it's around four foot long :D. I've not played any after that sinse either they were on consoles I didn't own (and wouldn't buy the console just for beat em ups), or, as in the case of deception they had a completely 3D inaccessible story mode. I really enjoyed the story mode of MkDa and soul calibur sinse with a faq to read the text it was a great way to get the game. Then again the plot seemed to go very off the rails anyway after that. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around a certain problem. To give you an example there is a free and open source game called Super Tux which is in the style of Mario Brothers etc. Since it is open source anyone can download the C code and look through it to see how the basic mechanics work and then incorporate those concepts into your own design. Seeing an actually working set of game mechanics is in my opinion worth more than getting concept and theory when working code is right there for the taking. Cheers! On 5/27/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to those questions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. That is a good thought. Btw, where exactly can I get this supertucks game? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around a certain problem. To give you an example there is a free and open source game called Super Tux which is in the style of Mario Brothers etc. Since it is open source anyone can download the C code and look through it to see how the basic mechanics work and then incorporate those concepts into your own design. Seeing an actually working set of game mechanics is in my opinion worth more than getting concept and theory when working code is right there for the taking. Cheers! On 5/27/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to those questions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, As far as I am aware Super Tux isn't available for Windows, Super tux is a game made specifically for Linux based operating systems using Tux, the Linux penguin, as the protagonist. If you want I can see if I can grab the source for Super Tux and see how easy it would be to port to Windows. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. That is a good thought. Btw, where exactly can I get this supertucks game? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around a certain problem. To give you an example there is a free and open source game called Super Tux which is in the style of Mario Brothers etc. Since it is open source anyone can download the C code and look through it to see how the basic mechanics work and then incorporate those concepts into your own design. Seeing an actually working set of game mechanics is in my opinion worth more than getting concept and theory when working code is right there for the taking. Cheers! On 5/27/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to those questions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. Ah, I didn't realize Supertux was lynux only or who this Tux character was. I wouldn't worry about another port, particularly of a graphical game that won't be accessible either to yourself or to other members of the community, I was just vaguely interested sinse it's always nice to find new things to try out. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, As far as I am aware Super Tux isn't available for Windows, Super tux is a game made specifically for Linux based operating systems using Tux, the Linux penguin, as the protagonist. If you want I can see if I can grab the source for Super Tux and see how easy it would be to port to Windows. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. That is a good thought. Btw, where exactly can I get this supertucks game? Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around a certain problem. To give you an example there is a free and open source game called Super Tux which is in the style of Mario Brothers etc. Since it is open source anyone can download the C code and look through it to see how the basic mechanics work and then incorporate those concepts into your own design. Seeing an actually working set of game mechanics is in my opinion worth more than getting concept and theory when working code is right there for the taking. Cheers! On 5/27/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to those questions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Sure. Too bad Super Tux isn't accessible as I think you and a lot of others would really enjoy it. The basic concept of the game is you play Tux, the Linux penguin, as he travels through his icy world doing a lot of things Mario does such as breaking blocks of ice, jumping over patches of ice, and can shrink, grow bigger, or throw fireballs, etc. Obviously, not being accessible I haven't played it myself, but my son loves the game and plays it all the time. I have thought many times of trying to see what would need to be done to add some sort of access to that game. Cheers! On 5/28/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Ah, I didn't realize Supertux was lynux only or who this Tux character was. I wouldn't worry about another port, particularly of a graphical game that won't be accessible either to yourself or to other members of the community, I was just vaguely interested sinse it's always nice to find new things to try out. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. If there were a windows version I'd certainly give it a try and see if my level of sight would let me play it. While I don't particularly scour the net for graphical windows games because finding something that my level of sight and my inability to read text can cope with can be a little frustrating I have found some graphical windows games I have had lots of fun with, most noteably some awsome Turrican remakes. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Sure. Although, I think I would prefer having some sort of tutorial or guide explaining the implementation of analog movement from a programmer's perspective than just talking to mainstream programmers from retro remakes etc. However, that I am aware of how the old NES and SNES controllers worked I am more in a position of figuring out how to work it with a keyboard since the mechanics should not be that difficult to replicate. Cheers! On 5/26/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. nope, as I said up until the quite late 90's the 3D thumb stick controllers didn't exist and all input was either on or off, meaning analogue movement was handled entirely by the game itself. Older arcade sticks (and indeed sticks like my X arcade one), basically work the same way as joypads with several small metal switches in the base around the stick, so pressing the stick in one direction presses the switch. This is why the vast majority of 16 bit era games were equally playable on a stick or a joypad, or indeed on a keyboard for that matter. Regarding the correct formulae, over movement speed, key presses and movement, perhaps this would be an occasion where communicating with programmers of graphical games would help. There are after all lots of people on places like retroremakes who freely program old style games from scratch. While obviously a lot of what is done graphically even in old style games won't be relevant, some ideas of relative speeds for movement would likely be just the same particularly if you really wanted to replicate similar mechanics to mainstream games. Obviously it'd need tweaking depending upon the game, but just some basic ideas might be a handy starting point to begin tinkering. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to those questions. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Interesting. I certainly wasn't aware the classic joysticks for Atari and NES had simple on/off input systems like a keyboard. I of course have studied how PC game controllers like how the Logitech game controllers for the PC work, and naturally assumed that the joysticks for older systems used a similar input system. Now, that you explained how they worked I do see how some of those games can be adapted for a keyboard. Basically, all it comes down to is coming up with the right formulas to calculate speed based on the length of time the key or keys are pressed. I'll have to look into this further as I am interested in adding more analog mechanics into my games as I grew up with the Atari, NES, Super NES, etc and I know I personally haven't done enough research into emulating those sorts of mechanics in my own games and game engine. One thing we do agree on writing and having some tutorials would be very helpful. To be honest I have been programming for over 14 years and I am still unclear how to do it myself so need to check the web for some tutorials to find out what would be good analog game mechanics. My guess is every developer learns this by trial and error and they do so simply by trying to emulate the mechanics in game x so there is no set way to do this specifically. Cheers! On 5/25/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I'm afraid I completely disagree about analogue movement. The sort of sticks your talking about, the 3D thumb sticks that directly calibrated player movement to stick position, eg, far right = walk fast right less far right = slower, didn't come into the mainstream world until the 32/64 bit era in the mid 90's. All the previous games, including classics like mario, sonic, MEga man etc had a simple on/off input system, even for joysticks. I know this very certainly because I have read the manual for my X arcade stick which precisely imitates those movements, so have a vague idea at least how the hardware works. The way that all those 8 and 16 bit era games handled analogue movement was much more to do with the software and game engine than the hardware. For example, instead of having a character's walking speed be constant, have it gradually increase when the correct direction is held. With jumps, have the amount of time held on the jump button dictate the hight of the jump, in combination with how much the directional buttons are pressed and what speed the character was going. Many games (like mario), also had a run button which, when held would cause the character to run further and any running jumps be hier. All of this is quite possible on a pc keyboard by simply tracking the time spent holding the keys, indeed I've played freeware graphical games that do this quite nicely so that playing on a keyboard isn't that different technically to playing on a stick. indeed when playing the Pc turrican remakes, I don't miss my old comador Amigar Zip stick half as much as I would expect to :D. So yes, the analogue thumb stick controllers could be used to create in game movement, but certainly for something with the same movement model as all the games of the pre 32 bit era had wouldn't be difficult at all at least from a design perspective. The problem however is firstly that as you said, if people have not experienced the mechanics of mainstream games they do not know! the fine differences in say Mario's walking and jumping speed, and secondly precisely working out some mathematics to create a more analogue system of control rather than just a basic press button movement model such as games like Superliam and Q9 have. Perhaps this is where writing some tutorials or basic formulae for programmers would be helpful. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Jim, Yeah, it makes a big difference in Mach 1 TTS having a racing wheel and peddles. Same goes for Rail Racer. You can use the keyboard, but it isn't nearly as precise or as seamless as using a racing wheel with those games. Cheers! On 5/25/14, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi Thomas, The keyboard verses game input devices is why for Mach 1 tts I said I wrote Mach 1 tts specifically for my Logitech MOMO Racing steering wheel joystick. It should work ok with other game controllers as well. However some of the tracks may be very difficult if not impossible to drive via the keyboard. And you know that is because it makes it easier to drive some of the tracks if you can press the gas peddle just a bit rather than full on or off. And the same with the steering. BFN Jim My steering wheel is a Logitech MOMO Racing. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. nope, as I said up until the quite late 90's the 3D thumb stick controllers didn't exist and all input was either on or off, meaning analogue movement was handled entirely by the game itself. Older arcade sticks (and indeed sticks like my X arcade one), basically work the same way as joypads with several small metal switches in the base around the stick, so pressing the stick in one direction presses the switch. This is why the vast majority of 16 bit era games were equally playable on a stick or a joypad, or indeed on a keyboard for that matter. Regarding the correct formulae, over movement speed, key presses and movement, perhaps this would be an occasion where communicating with programmers of graphical games would help. There are after all lots of people on places like retroremakes who freely program old style games from scratch. While obviously a lot of what is done graphically even in old style games won't be relevant, some ideas of relative speeds for movement would likely be just the same particularly if you really wanted to replicate similar mechanics to mainstream games. Obviously it'd need tweaking depending upon the game, but just some basic ideas might be a handy starting point to begin tinkering. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Precisely. I think a lot of VI gamers have an incomplete or inaccurate idea of various mainstream games. After all many of them have played games like Mario Brothers, but with help from a friend or family member who probably described it to them. However, describing it and experiencing it first-hand are two very different things. Therefore sadly the audio remakes have been under developed compared to what could have been done and lacks some features of the original game. That said, there are technical issues here too. Take the analog movement and mechanics. That's not something that can really be replicated on a keyboard, because the way keyboards work. With a joystick, gamepad, whatever it usually has an access ranging from -5000 to 5000 and a game developer can get the x and y position of the stick to apply things like speed to the movement of the character in real time. Move the stick slightly to the right and the character does a slow walk. Move the stick a little further right and he/she goes into a fast walk. Move it further to the right and the character goes into a run. The amount of speed the character moves is based on the amount of movement on the stick. Unfortunately, the same can't be done with a keyboard. Keys are either pressed or released. Therefore a game developer can't poll the keyboard to find out how hard the key is being held down because it is either pressed or not. It is precisely for that reason that many PC games have a static walking and running speed. So if you want a more analog movement system in say Super Liam it would require the input be rewritten to support a dedicated game controller that supports analog movement. Keyboards are just not good for trying to replicate various mechanics designed for a console with a gamepad or joystick. On 5/24/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. that is a good point, sinse obviously iff a person is only working from a partial idea of a mainstream game, at best they will only come up with an audio convertion, and I do admit some of the more famous game mechanics are a little illogical. For example, I could imagine someone who has never seen the dimentions of super mario brothers believing the play was more 1D, after all on the face of it the idea of someone who regularly jumps about threee times their own hight and comes down on monsters heads is a little whacky unless you've seen it working. This is one reason i raise such discussions anyway. One other interesting fact I've noticed in audio games however, is analogue movement and mechanics are much less common, unless the game is! something like a racing game or Gma luna lander, the mechanics of player and enemy movement always seem fairly streight forward. For example in super liam, liam has one walking speed and one running speed which he reaches fairly instantly. Same goes for most of the enemies. Even in a 1D game, varying the movement speed of enemies can be a major factor in difficulty, for example look at the bears in Q9. If someone is making up their own mechanics for games, or indeed looking at what makes a good game, maybe it'd be worth starting with how can I challenge the player's judgement by giving them several things to assess and considder than how fast can I make the player react to oncoming threats Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Yeah, the games themselves aren't a good guide as to what console you had. I know my Atari 7800 could play pretty much anything from the 2600, 5200, and 7800 so all I needed to have was the one console to be the Atari king. Of course, I also had an old Atari 2600 as well, but once I got the 7800 naturally that is what I used most. Cheers! On 5/24/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I'm not sure on the model number myself. I've occasionally assumed it was some varient of the 2600, sinse when i've sinse seen 2600 versions of games I remember like Berzerk and joust they are the same as I thought, but as you said sinse 2600 games could play on the later consoles that might not be a good guide. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I'm afraid I completely disagree about analogue movement. The sort of sticks your talking about, the 3D thumb sticks that directly calibrated player movement to stick position, eg, far right = walk fast right less far right = slower, didn't come into the mainstream world until the 32/64 bit era in the mid 90's. All the previous games, including classics like mario, sonic, MEga man etc had a simple on/off input system, even for joysticks. I know this very certainly because I have read the manual for my X arcade stick which precisely imitates those movements, so have a vague idea at least how the hardware works. The way that all those 8 and 16 bit era games handled analogue movement was much more to do with the software and game engine than the hardware. For example, instead of having a character's walking speed be constant, have it gradually increase when the correct direction is held. With jumps, have the amount of time held on the jump button dictate the hight of the jump, in combination with how much the directional buttons are pressed and what speed the character was going. Many games (like mario), also had a run button which, when held would cause the character to run further and any running jumps be hier. All of this is quite possible on a pc keyboard by simply tracking the time spent holding the keys, indeed I've played freeware graphical games that do this quite nicely so that playing on a keyboard isn't that different technically to playing on a stick. indeed when playing the Pc turrican remakes, I don't miss my old comador Amigar Zip stick half as much as I would expect to :D. So yes, the analogue thumb stick controllers could be used to create in game movement, but certainly for something with the same movement model as all the games of the pre 32 bit era had wouldn't be difficult at all at least from a design perspective. The problem however is firstly that as you said, if people have not experienced the mechanics of mainstream games they do not know! the fine differences in say Mario's walking and jumping speed, and secondly precisely working out some mathematics to create a more analogue system of control rather than just a basic press button movement model such as games like Superliam and Q9 have. Perhaps this is where writing some tutorials or basic formulae for programmers would be helpful. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Thomas, The keyboard verses game input devices is why for Mach 1 tts I said I wrote Mach 1 tts specifically for my Logitech MOMO Racing steering wheel joystick. It should work ok with other game controllers as well. However some of the tracks may be very difficult if not impossible to drive via the keyboard. And you know that is because it makes it easier to drive some of the tracks if you can press the gas peddle just a bit rather than full on or off. And the same with the steering. BFN Jim My steering wheel is a Logitech MOMO Racing. j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
The music was interesting, sinse those atmospheric choso city background thremes weren't much on their own, but could get dam creepy if you were crawling up a wall to one unexplored corner of a huge cave, or not knowing when a metroid was about to jump out at you. I also love the bit in the queen's laire where you suddenly get a musical sting then the theme starts with extra echo, just before the metroid hatchlings come after you. According to some faqs I've read this is where the metroid counter which counts how many metroids you need to kill suddenly goes up with the hatchlings, though I can't see the counter myself. even though the game only had four different types of bosses accepting the queen, the different places you encountered them could be quite surprising. One of my favourite fights for example is when your dropping down and a gama metroid literally pops up in mid air, you then have to fly up with the spacejump and try to land on one of the few ledges in the room where you can nail it. That one can be tough, though what I did this time was fly up a bit, get the metroid to chase me down to the floor then fire upwards and murder it from the ground :D. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance No kidding. It's interesting how there wasn't much actual music, just groups of sound effects in te caves. Then the Chozo ruins did have a theme as did the planet's surface and metroid battles. My favorite was when you finally got down to the queen's lair and you had that deep, slow, menacing tune as you explored. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came from metroid Ii, and I absolutely love the spider ball. People pan the game because it was separated into recognizable zones each holding several metroids, but honestly in a game where you can litterally climb across the entire cieling! things take lots of finding. The atmosphere is also awsome, getting into the omega zone you just can't stop until the end, despite the fact that the omegas are pretty tough customers even with all the energy tanks and missiles in the game to throw at them. I haven't got that! involved with an action game for quite some time, indeed I actualy am quite pleased I finished the game because on several previous occasions I'd try out a game I used to always be good at, end up getting creamed and just leave feeling frustrated. Maybe I've not lost it after all :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I'm not sure on the model number myself. I've occasionally assumed it was some varient of the 2600, sinse when i've sinse seen 2600 versions of games I remember like Berzerk and joust they are the same as I thought, but as you said sinse 2600 games could play on the later consoles that might not be a good guide. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi KAra. I don't unfortunately remember that tactic, sinse I was rather young at the time, indeed if I wanted to play warlord I usually had to get someone to plug the paddle controlers in for me. Makes me want to play it again :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. that is a good point, sinse obviously iff a person is only working from a partial idea of a mainstream game, at best they will only come up with an audio convertion, and I do admit some of the more famous game mechanics are a little illogical. For example, I could imagine someone who has never seen the dimentions of super mario brothers believing the play was more 1D, after all on the face of it the idea of someone who regularly jumps about threee times their own hight and comes down on monsters heads is a little whacky unless you've seen it working. This is one reason i raise such discussions anyway. One other interesting fact I've noticed in audio games however, is analogue movement and mechanics are much less common, unless the game is! something like a racing game or Gma luna lander, the mechanics of player and enemy movement always seem fairly streight forward. For example in super liam, liam has one walking speed and one running speed which he reaches fairly instantly. Same goes for most of the enemies. Even in a 1D game, varying the movement speed of enemies can be a major factor in difficulty, for example look at the bears in Q9. If someone is making up their own mechanics for games, or indeed looking at what makes a good game, maybe it'd be worth starting with how can I challenge the player's judgement by giving them several things to assess and considder than how fast can I make the player react to oncoming threats Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
That's what I figured. I've seen one of the later models but never owned one. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan, Yours was the original Atari 2600. The wood-grain panel was the earlier version of the console. The later 2600 was smaller and all black, and instead of switches had buttons as I recall. Cheers! On 5/23/14, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I'm guessing then that it wasn't a 2600 or, if it was it was the later model. The one I have is the big one with the wood-grained panel on the front wich is also the model my brother had when we were kids. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Ah yes, the Metroid hatchlings. You're mooning along thinking you've got just the one Metroid left to deal with and suddenly the counter jumps to nine. That actually scared my brother the first time it happened to him what with that little musical sting and suddenly there were eight baby Metroids chasing you. I imagine Metroid hatchlings have been the source of many a nightmare over the years LOL. The first time my dad got to that point he'd forgotten to grab the ice beam and so he ended up dying a few times. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Saturday, May 24, 2014 2:43 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance The music was interesting, sinse those atmospheric choso city background thremes weren't much on their own, but could get dam creepy if you were crawling up a wall to one unexplored corner of a huge cave, or not knowing when a metroid was about to jump out at you. I also love the bit in the queen's laire where you suddenly get a musical sting then the theme starts with extra echo, just before the metroid hatchlings come after you. According to some faqs I've read this is where the metroid counter which counts how many metroids you need to kill suddenly goes up with the hatchlings, though I can't see the counter myself. even though the game only had four different types of bosses accepting the queen, the different places you encountered them could be quite surprising. One of my favourite fights for example is when your dropping down and a gama metroid literally pops up in mid air, you then have to fly up with the spacejump and try to land on one of the few ledges in the room where you can nail it. That one can be tough, though what I did this time was fly up a bit, get the metroid to chase me down to the floor then fire upwards and murder it from the ground :D. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance No kidding. It's interesting how there wasn't much actual music, just groups of sound effects in te caves. Then the Chozo ruins did have a theme as did the planet's surface and metroid battles. My favorite was when you finally got down to the queen's lair and you had that deep, slow, menacing tune as you explored. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came from metroid Ii, and I absolutely love the spider ball. People pan the game because it was separated into recognizable zones each holding several metroids, but honestly in a game where you can litterally climb across the entire cieling! things take lots of finding. The atmosphere is also awsome, getting into the omega zone you just can't stop until the end, despite the fact that the omegas are pretty tough customers even with all the energy tanks and missiles in the game to throw at them. I haven't got that! involved with an action game for quite some time, indeed I actualy am quite pleased I finished the game because on several previous occasions I'd try out a game I used to always be good at, end up getting creamed and just leave feeling frustrated. Maybe I've not lost it after all :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan. Lol, that's quite funny about the ice beam. Amusingly enough, when I first finished the game when i was 16I had the same thing happen, I got a hatchling munching my brains. I ended up wandering all the way back through the omega zone and through all the shafts to that room in the previous choso city which has a choice of all the beams in the game and picking up the ice beam then trecking all the way back. needless to say I was very narked when I discovered there was another icebeam over the other side, indeed I only realized it was! the icebeam because when I kept getting the item pickup jingle and nothing happening I asked my dad to read the screen and when he read ice beam I really kicked myself :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Kara. I've never run into issues with Snes games on my 42 inch, which is also wide screen as you say. The few nes remakes I have for the gba also play very well, indeed I've recently been having some casual fun with ice climbers. The only games I've noticed look a little whacky are original gb and gb colour games played on the gameboy player I've got attached to my gamecube, that being said the appearence isn't enough to be unsettling, it just makes Mega man look as if he lost a fight with snackfood man :D. Interestingly enough though I just finished playing through metroid Ii return of Samas for the original gb, and that looked fine. Indeed I got very involved with the game, and though I was severely out of practice and ended up feeding the metroid queen a couple of times, i was finally victorious! As for Tempest, the pc remake I played was massively colourful almost like a coliderscope, indeed so much so it was very difficult for me to tell the enemy spaceships and shots from my own. Thus I didn't do to well with it, but it was great to look at :D. Beware the Grue! Dark./ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Kara. That is good to know, and actually I might considder getting one of those at some point myself, though obviously I still have some vision so at least some games will be playable. My dad used to own a thing called a power joy which was like a joypad attacched to a cartridge that directly plugged into the tv. It had I believe around 50 games on, many from the Atari and nes on it, and was actually a lot of fun. I partiuclarly enjoyed playing ice climbers, balloon fight and warp man on that machine. Sadly I've not seen it for a few years, he had it back in around 2005 or 6, but maybe on that basis it would be worth looking at one of these flashback things for myself. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
The paddles took a little getting used to, but one game I always remember that required them was warlord. This was basically like a four player version of pong or breakout, with each player in the corner of a screen. You had a ball (on some levels more than one), that boused around, and behind each player was a shield that covered a large glowing stick thing weused to call a gun. Like breakout, if the ball hit your shield it knocked some away, and if it hit your gun you were out of the game. The aime was obviously to be the last standing. My favourite level was the one where you could hold the fire button to suck in the ball, and then spit it in a direction of your choice at one of the other players, that was pretty awsome! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I'm afraid I'm not sure which version of atari we had. I know we got it second hand from a friend, so it might have been an older earlier console, or a later one. it had a silver strip on the front and two buttons and two switches on the top. One of the swtiches turned the sound off, the other seemed to change the colour in some games. Games wise we had a selection, though all were second hand at the time. Some of my favourites included joust, berzerk and reactor. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Metroid II is actually one of my most favorite of Samus' adventures. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:03 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Kara. I've never run into issues with Snes games on my 42 inch, which is also wide screen as you say. The few nes remakes I have for the gba also play very well, indeed I've recently been having some casual fun with ice climbers. The only games I've noticed look a little whacky are original gb and gb colour games played on the gameboy player I've got attached to my gamecube, that being said the appearence isn't enough to be unsettling, it just makes Mega man look as if he lost a fight with snackfood man :D. Interestingly enough though I just finished playing through metroid Ii return of Samas for the original gb, and that looked fine. Indeed I got very involved with the game, and though I was severely out of practice and ended up feeding the metroid queen a couple of times, i was finally victorious! As for Tempest, the pc remake I played was massively colourful almost like a coliderscope, indeed so much so it was very difficult for me to tell the enemy spaceships and shots from my own. Thus I didn't do to well with it, but it was great to look at :D. Beware the Grue! Dark./ --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
My favorite paddle game was Circus Atari which I actually have for my Atari. That's another one I've considered trying to do a audio version. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance The paddles took a little getting used to, but one game I always remember that required them was warlord. This was basically like a four player version of pong or breakout, with each player in the corner of a screen. You had a ball (on some levels more than one), that boused around, and behind each player was a shield that covered a large glowing stick thing weused to call a gun. Like breakout, if the ball hit your shield it knocked some away, and if it hit your gun you were out of the game. The aime was obviously to be the last standing. My favourite level was the one where you could hold the fire button to suck in the ball, and then spit it in a direction of your choice at one of the other players, that was pretty awsome! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
I'm guessing then that it wasn't a 2600 or, if it was it was the later model. The one I have is the big one with the wood-grained panel on the front wich is also the model my brother had when we were kids. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:18 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Tom. I'm afraid I'm not sure which version of atari we had. I know we got it second hand from a friend, so it might have been an older earlier console, or a later one. it had a silver strip on the front and two buttons and two switches on the top. One of the swtiches turned the sound off, the other seemed to change the colour in some games. Games wise we had a selection, though all were second hand at the time. Some of my favourites included joust, berzerk and reactor. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came from metroid Ii, and I absolutely love the spider ball. People pan the game because it was separated into recognizable zones each holding several metroids, but honestly in a game where you can litterally climb across the entire cieling! things take lots of finding. The atmosphere is also awsome, getting into the omega zone you just can't stop until the end, despite the fact that the omegas are pretty tough customers even with all the energy tanks and missiles in the game to throw at them. I haven't got that! involved with an action game for quite some time, indeed I actualy am quite pleased I finished the game because on several previous occasions I'd try out a game I used to always be good at, end up getting creamed and just leave feeling frustrated. Maybe I've not lost it after all :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
No kidding. It's interesting how there wasn't much actual music, just groups of sound effects in te caves. Then the Chozo ruins did have a theme as did the planet's surface and metroid battles. My favorite was when you finally got down to the queen's lair and you had that deep, slow, menacing tune as you explored. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came from metroid Ii, and I absolutely love the spider ball. People pan the game because it was separated into recognizable zones each holding several metroids, but honestly in a game where you can litterally climb across the entire cieling! things take lots of finding. The atmosphere is also awsome, getting into the omega zone you just can't stop until the end, despite the fact that the omegas are pretty tough customers even with all the energy tanks and missiles in the game to throw at them. I haven't got that! involved with an action game for quite some time, indeed I actualy am quite pleased I finished the game because on several previous occasions I'd try out a game I used to always be good at, end up getting creamed and just leave feeling frustrated. Maybe I've not lost it after all :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan, Yours was the original Atari 2600. The wood-grain panel was the earlier version of the console. The later 2600 was smaller and all black, and instead of switches had buttons as I recall. Cheers! On 5/23/14, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I'm guessing then that it wasn't a 2600 or, if it was it was the later model. The one I have is the big one with the wood-grained panel on the front wich is also the model my brother had when we were kids. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, That's definitely a later model console. I'm not sure which console you had, but it sounds like the Atari 7800 which could play both 2600 and 7800 games. I seem to recall my 7800 could change colors and stuff like that too. The early Atari 2600 was way different from what you described. It was brown with a wood-grained appearance with several silver switches on top to change the number of players, to reset the game, and other things. Later versions were primarily black with a silver strip on the front and buttons instead of switches. Cheers! On 5/23/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I'm afraid I'm not sure which version of atari we had. I know we got it second hand from a friend, so it might have been an older earlier console, or a later one. it had a silver strip on the front and two buttons and two switches on the top. One of the swtiches turned the sound off, the other seemed to change the colour in some games. Games wise we had a selection, though all were second hand at the time. Some of my favourites included joust, berzerk and reactor. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Well, I do see where you are coming from, but I don't think the issue here is purely technical. What I mean by that is that it is not just a difficulty of converting mainstream mechanics to audio, but more a matter of if the audio game developer realizes that his/her game is lacking in features. Keep in mind many, certainly not all, game developers are blind and have had little to no experience with mainstream games. Therefore developing a 1d side-scroller may seem like a good idea to him/her and it may not occur to him/her that adding a 2d element would be more interesting and more challenging or that having diamonds fall from the sky would be more fun than just picking them up off the floor. The point being if we want things to change as a person who has played both you need to be more vocal with game developers in what their games are lacking in order to get more mainstream like play because I think many blind developers honestly don't know how to improve their games. They just go along with other blind games they have played or come up with their own mechanics not even trying to emulate mainstream games in the first place. Thus we end up with games lacking features a mainstream equivalent would probably have. Cheers! On 5/22/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I would never suggest giving up on an attempt to replicate mainstream mechanics in audio games entirely, certainly i've occasionally been quite surprised at the ingenuity of developers. My problem however, is that as you said yourself, developing games is not easy and developers aren't always in a position to know how to implement something in a game. The problem is this has too often resulted in partial convertions, eg, space invaders games with no shields and no shooting invaders, or supposed 2D side scrollers with no 2nd dimention or recognizable enemy attacks. My suggestion is not to completely abandon efforts to try and convert mainstream games to audio, only that when a developer comes up against a problem which cannot be solved, instead of simply missing something out and reducing the game to a reaction test, considder substituting an audio mechanic to keep the game at the same level of challenge and complexity as the original rather than reducing it to another boppit clone. For example, yes your skull suggestion would be quite workable, however if you can't think of a similar thing to dictate the jewel position and require the player to vary his/her jump hight to grab them, instead of saying oh dear, well we'll just stick the jewels on the floor and let them be easy to pickup find a similar audio challenge to substitute into the game, eg, the falling jewels suggestion. No, this might not result in a %100 accurate remake, but better a %50 accurate audio remake with another %50 of similar style challenge but in audio, than just! a %50 remake with nothing added and those mechanics simply missing. Btw, with the duckhunt idea, the only problem I see in replicating the gorbian style levels is that the gorbians were predicated on the idea that once a ship was targeted horizontally, the target wouldn't move from that horizontal position and you would then just have to target it vertically, which is why you always hit the left and right arrows before the up or down ones. Obviously this worked for space invaders sinse most invaders don't move horizontally much. To be accurate, the ducks would need to move in diagonals and the player would need to move the target in both horizontal and vertical incriments at the same time. you'd therefore probably need two distinct target sounds, one for vertical target one for horizontal target, and require the player to get both solutions correct before the shot would hit. That! could be a most challenging game, sinse the player would need to line up their target quite carefully and continually try to keep a beed on the moving duck much as in the graphical version, making for a game which would be much more interesting to play. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, An interesting concept. Deserves thinking about at any rate. Cheers! On 5/22/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Yep, i definitely remember the enemy blasting holes in the shields, indeed a favourite tactic of mine was blasting through the center of the shield myself so I was protected on both sides and using it to take out lots of invaders while I got the cover. You mentioning shield power did give me a thought however. Suppose instead of giving the player say 5 shields at the start of each game, the shield started with a percentage power meter. When at %100, the shield was absolutely certain to stop an enemy shot. However, as it took damage, the percentage of the shield was the percentage it would stop the enemy's bullet. So when at %50, if you deployed the shield, there was also a %50 chance you'd get hit anyway. This would be easy to show in audio, (simply a status key to report percentage), and would replicate the fact that enemies blasted through the shields and would add complexity to the game. For example, do you use a shield at %30, knowing there is a good chance it won't work. This could be potentially even more interesting than a limited number of shields, sinse there would be an element of risk and chance involved along with the conservation required, and a little calculated risk can always make for an addictive game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Oh, it was definitely something playing games like Space Invaders and other games on a 78 inch screen. Not that I got to do so that often. That was my parents TV, and naturally they bought it to watch movies etc in the den. So most of the time I ended up playing games on a standard 25 inch TV in my room. Anyway, I imagine there were several color variations of the games out there. I know on my Atari 7800, for example, I could toggle between color modes and get variations of the same game just by pressing a button on top of the console which was cool. That doesn't even include all the various retro remakes over the years. Cheers! On 5/22/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Dark, I totally loved that version as well. If you got to the side of the screen quick enough so you could let the fireball go at the neighboring castle just before the opponent's shield blocked you, the opponent shield would end up bouncing the fireball back at its own castle again and again and again until its king was destroyed. The trick was to time it just right so you could fire and then the opponent shield would get between you and the fireball. Then the fireball would hit the castle, bounce backward, hit the opponent shield and then hit its own castle again and the cycle would then continue until the end. It would make a neat little path straight through the castle wall… The AI was not that sophisticated so it didn't 'know' enough to move out of the way once that started happening!… lol! Fun fun!… Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 23, 2014, at 6:13 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: The paddles took a little getting used to, but one game I always remember that required them was warlord. This was basically like a four player version of pong or breakout, with each player in the corner of a screen. You had a ball (on some levels more than one), that boused around, and behind each player was a shield that covered a large glowing stick thing weused to call a gun. Like breakout, if the ball hit your shield it knocked some away, and if it hit your gun you were out of the game. The aime was obviously to be the last standing. My favourite level was the one where you could hold the fire button to suck in the ball, and then spit it in a direction of your choice at one of the other players, that was pretty awsome! :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. Yep, i definitely remember the enemy blasting holes in the shields, indeed a favourite tactic of mine was blasting through the center of the shield myself so I was protected on both sides and using it to take out lots of invaders while I got the cover. You mentioning shield power did give me a thought however. Suppose instead of giving the player say 5 shields at the start of each game, the shield started with a percentage power meter. When at %100, the shield was absolutely certain to stop an enemy shot. However, as it took damage, the percentage of the shield was the percentage it would stop the enemy's bullet. So when at %50, if you deployed the shield, there was also a %50 chance you'd get hit anyway. This would be easy to show in audio, (simply a status key to report percentage), and would replicate the fact that enemies blasted through the shields and would add complexity to the game. For example, do you use a shield at %30, knowing there is a good chance it won't work. This could be potentially even more interesting than a limited number of shields, sinse there would be an element of risk and chance involved along with the conservation required, and a little calculated risk can always make for an addictive game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I would never suggest giving up on an attempt to replicate mainstream mechanics in audio games entirely, certainly i've occasionally been quite surprised at the ingenuity of developers. My problem however, is that as you said yourself, developing games is not easy and developers aren't always in a position to know how to implement something in a game. The problem is this has too often resulted in partial convertions, eg, space invaders games with no shields and no shooting invaders, or supposed 2D side scrollers with no 2nd dimention or recognizable enemy attacks. My suggestion is not to completely abandon efforts to try and convert mainstream games to audio, only that when a developer comes up against a problem which cannot be solved, instead of simply missing something out and reducing the game to a reaction test, considder substituting an audio mechanic to keep the game at the same level of challenge and complexity as the original rather than reducing it to another boppit clone. For example, yes your skull suggestion would be quite workable, however if you can't think of a similar thing to dictate the jewel position and require the player to vary his/her jump hight to grab them, instead of saying oh dear, well we'll just stick the jewels on the floor and let them be easy to pickup find a similar audio challenge to substitute into the game, eg, the falling jewels suggestion. No, this might not result in a %100 accurate remake, but better a %50 accurate audio remake with another %50 of similar style challenge but in audio, than just! a %50 remake with nothing added and those mechanics simply missing. Btw, with the duckhunt idea, the only problem I see in replicating the gorbian style levels is that the gorbians were predicated on the idea that once a ship was targeted horizontally, the target wouldn't move from that horizontal position and you would then just have to target it vertically, which is why you always hit the left and right arrows before the up or down ones. Obviously this worked for space invaders sinse most invaders don't move horizontally much. To be accurate, the ducks would need to move in diagonals and the player would need to move the target in both horizontal and vertical incriments at the same time. you'd therefore probably need two distinct target sounds, one for vertical target one for horizontal target, and require the player to get both solutions correct before the shot would hit. That! could be a most challenging game, sinse the player would need to line up their target quite carefully and continually try to keep a beed on the moving duck much as in the graphical version, making for a game which would be much more interesting to play. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
I never even thought of the Gorbianthing. LOL. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, I certainly see where you are coming from, but I see two problems with your conclusions. One, is that not every programmer has the same skills, and sometimes one programmer might think of a novel solution to solve a problem that another programmer would not think of to resolve a particular problem in converting some mainstream mechanics to audio. Two, just because a solution has not been introduced does not mean one does not exist. Merely that not all the possibilities have been tried yet. Let's take your example of Duck Hunt here. I'll be the first to admit Liam did not do the best job of converting that game to audio, because its overly simplistic compared to the NES version. The ducks simply fly across the screen and when they are in the center you hit space to shoot them. Pretty dull and not at all like the original game. However, as I sit here I can think of away to restore the original challenge of the game, and write Duck Hunt to be on par with the video game version. The way to do it would be to add an audio targeting system similar to what Justin did in the Gorbian levels of Troopanum 2. You would be able to move the targeting beep left and right until the duck is centered and then move it up and down to center it on the duck. When the pitch of the beep is at its maximum shoot. If tied with a game controller, mouse, or something we would effectively be recreating Duck Hunt almost exactly like the classic NES version, and have it be fully accessible. Not sure Liam had thought of trying anything like that when creating his version of Duck Hunt, but that is a case of where I think the experience could be drastically improved to be fairly close to the original in challenge and still use the same basic mechanics. I'll freely admit when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge I wasn't trying too hard to find solutions for various issues. I was primarily in a big hurry so if there was not something I knew how to do or have an idea how to get around some problem with converting some aspect of the game to audio I just skipped it intending to come back to the problem at a later time. Therefore certain things such as the bouncing skulls were left undone. That said, now that six years have passed since working on the game I have a few ideas in which I could have implemented the bouncing skulls. One way would be by introducing a bounce or jump sound for when the skulls bounced into the air, and a land sound for when they hit the ground. The Airbot battle in Super Liam is an example of one way the bouncing skulls could be made accessible, but I was in too much of a hurry at the time to really look for that kind of solution at the time. My point being just because various audio games lack a certain feature found in a video game counterpart doesn't mean it is impossible or too difficult to convert a specific mechanic from a video game to audio. It could be a lack of skill, shear laziness on the developers part, or simply a case of not thinking the problem completely through. I'm personally not ready to put the smackdown on converting video game mechanics to audio and give it the 1, 2, 3 until all alternatives have been explored. Cheers! On 5/21/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I do see your point in trying to give people who have not played the original the same experience, however my problem is what usually happens when a game is translated to audio from an original graphical conceptmy problem is that when a developer simply cannot replicate a mechanic in audio that mechanic gets missed. Take Liam's duckhunt for example. The original Duckhunt was challenging because the ducks could move at any angle across the screen, and the player had to either target them with the nes connected gun, or (even more difficult), line up a circle with his/her pad on the screen. The lining up targeting process was complex sinse the player could never guarantee his/her target was in the right place and it required the player to track the movement of his/her target, and the movement of the oncoming duck. Sinse however there wasn't a way to replicate the vertical movement or random target lining up of the ducks, we end up with a sterrio targeting game where the player hears the sound of the duck and must hit space when it's in the center, thus all the need to coordinate the original target position vs the position of the oncoming duck is missing from the game and once again we have
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
HI Brian, Yes they can. The Flashbacks can use analog controllers but convert the signal to digital whereas I believe the Atari 2600 juniors are actually clones of the Atari 2600 so I am assuming they would preserve the analog feel. So far in my research, no one has complained about the movement of the paddles on the Flashbacks so I'm betting this is really a matter of how much of a purist are you? :) Some Flashback systems come with a set of paddles and you can also purchase them on amazon (among other places) as well. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi again Brian, If you were looking for a backup option, I would suggest either a Flashback 2 (not a 2+) or an Atari 2600 junior. The FB 2 can be modded to accept atari 2600 carts and the junior as I mentioned, is a clone of the original 2600. HTH Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hmmm.Interesting. Definitely might look into that. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:37 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance HI Brian, Yes they can. The Flashbacks can use analog controllers but convert the signal to digital whereas I believe the Atari 2600 juniors are actually clones of the Atari 2600 so I am assuming they would preserve the analog feel. So far in my research, no one has complained about the movement of the paddles on the Flashbacks so I'm betting this is really a matter of how much of a purist are you? :) Some Flashback systems come with a set of paddles and you can also purchase them on amazon (among other places) as well. Smiles, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Very cool. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi again Brian, If you were looking for a backup option, I would suggest either a Flashback 2 (not a 2+) or an Atari 2600 junior. The FB 2 can be modded to accept atari 2600 carts and the junior as I mentioned, is a clone of the original 2600. HTH Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Brian, Just out of curiosity, which games do you have for the Atari? which ones are your favs? How easy are these to play without sight? thanks and have a great day! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?… It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?… Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 1:23 AM, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
I don't know what allI have. I do have Pac-Man and Ms. Pac-Man, Missile Command, Space Invaders and a bunch of the other classics. Not all are really playable but I still enjoy them immensely. I grew up with them. My favorites are the Pac-Man games, Centipede, Millipede, Defender, Cosmic Ark, Kangaroo, Frogs and Flies. These are just a few. I also like Adventure but given that game's extremely sparse audio that one would be all but impossible to play. One of my goals in learning to programw as to create an audio remake or as close to it as possible. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:45 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Brian, Just out of curiosity, which games do you have for the Atari? which ones are your favs? How easy are these to play without sight? thanks and have a great day! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 11:17 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Wow. I may have to look into one. Yeah I do have a working Atari but it'd be nice to have a backup option in case the Atari itself ever went on the blink. My one question is if the Flashback could play games that used the paddle controllers. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which each have varying numbers of built-in games. • Atari Flashback (20 games) • Flashback 2 (40 games) • Flashback 2+ (40 games - different than FB2) • Flashback 3 (60 games) • Flashback 64 (64 games) • Flashback 4 (75 games) • Flashback 4 (different version - 76 games) These are all plug and play systems and the 2 has actual Atari 2600 hardware so it can be modded to accept original Atari cartridges. There are also Atari 2600 junior systems which are meant to run original Atari cartridges which do not have built-in games. Additionally, there are joystick versions of these plug and play emulation devices for the Atari 2600, which have smaller numbers of games in them. There are also other emulation systems which emulate other consoles from the 80s and 90s as well. It's really amazing to see these older Atari games making revivals after so long. While these were way fun to play visually, for myself, I'm just not sure how well / fun these would carry over just listening to the rather well, older audio for hours on end. lol! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 22, 2014, at 10:42 AM, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: Atari Flashback? Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Yeah, I am pretty sure there were color variations of the game out there, and I believe that was the main difference between the Atari 2600 and Atari 7800 versions. Plus keep in mind there were two different Atari 2600's released. There was the original 2600 consoles from the early 80's and there was a much newer Atari 2600 that came out in the late 80's along side the 7800models. So it is entirely possible yours was a later edition of Space Invaders as they did release updated versions of their 2600 catalog before going under. Cheers! On 5/22/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we were on a 15 inch tv, so no, I don't imagine the invaders were very clear. I also however do wonder if there was a different version of space invaders. The one we had on the Atari 2600 had the invaders in rows and columns, but if I remember rightly the invaders were yellow, and the shields between you and them were orange while your gun was green. it also had a two player option with one green gun and one purple gun. I have played a version with red invaders and blue shields on one of those multi game consoles that have hundreds of games on one machine and you just plug into the tv. I suppose though just like Packman and several other games at the time, there were various different versions of space invaders around and it's entirely possible that the first one I played wasn't the original. All the best, Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Cara, I am not sure. Its possible the legacy version of the games on the Atari Flashback take wide screen in to consideration, and they'd almost have to considering most televisions now days all are for wide screen formats. I guess the games that are setup for full screen would behave more or less like old movies in that you would just end up with black strips to the left and right of the game screen, and the game itself would appear in a square in the center of the screen. Hard for me to say for sure since I have had non-functioning eyeballs for quite a while now, and haven't really had to worry about how older things look on a newer wide screen TV. Cheers! On 5/22/14, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade. I'm sure the legacy version on the Flashback is different though. It would be an excellent game for 3D. The TV itself is active 3D but also has a mode where it will take 2D content and create a pseudo 3D appearance so am just wondering if it might render some games nicely? I agree! Space Invaders, or any game for that matter, on a 78 inch screen would be quite something to see! Actually this brings up another point I'm curious about. My screen is a wide screen (as are pretty much all TVs now) and the older Atari games I'm sure were for full screen viewing so I wonder how they would render in a wide screen format?... It would be pretty funny-looking if all the invaders were in a little clump in the center of the screen! lol! Any ideas Thomas or others?... Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan, Just goes to prove my point. There are answers out there to some of these problems in audio, but developers either don't know of them or don't remember what has been tried before when developing their own games. A particular answer just may not occur to a person at that time and the fault of the game isn't that it can not be converted to audio but just our own human shortcomings. Cheers! On 5/22/14, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I never even thought of the Gorbianthing. LOL. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I do see your point in trying to give people who have not played the original the same experience, however my problem is what usually happens when a game is translated to audio from an original graphical conceptmy problem is that when a developer simply cannot replicate a mechanic in audio that mechanic gets missed. Take Liam's duckhunt for example. The original Duckhunt was challenging because the ducks could move at any angle across the screen, and the player had to either target them with the nes connected gun, or (even more difficult), line up a circle with his/her pad on the screen. The lining up targeting process was complex sinse the player could never guarantee his/her target was in the right place and it required the player to track the movement of his/her target, and the movement of the oncoming duck. Sinse however there wasn't a way to replicate the vertical movement or random target lining up of the ducks, we end up with a sterrio targeting game where the player hears the sound of the duck and must hit space when it's in the center, thus all the need to coordinate the original target position vs the position of the oncoming duck is missing from the game and once again we have a reaction test boppit affair. This is why I suggest instead of completely missing out a mechanic which is difficult to do in audio as most developers have done, and thus ending up with a less challenging and paler copy of the original lacking many of it's features, we considder adding audio mechanics to approximate the original challenge. I've seen far too many attempts to replicate mainstream games in audio that ran into this problem, from space invaders, to duckhunt, and yes, montizuma's revenge, indeed about the only game which I've seen succeed in replicating all the mechanics is audio pong, and that just for the obvious reason that pong has very few mechanics to worry about. On the other hand, games like packman talks which utterly changed the mechanical elements to add additional challenges to the game have been very successful, precisely because! where something isn't possible to do in audio an additional mechanic is substituted to make up for it, egg losing the multi object spacial overview of original packman but having an fps explorer with the need for fast evasive action instead. This is why i'm rather coming to the conclusion that trying to exactly replicate mainstream mechanics and simply miss off the less doable ones is a less successful path for game design. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I agree on ship numbers, indeed that is another point of game design for good audio games, making sure that the sounds actually serve a regular purpose. Regarding the shields above your ship, This might also however be a case where changing the game design rather than simply removing something difficult to add might be a point in the games' favour. For example instead of having defensive shields above the player which absorb some of the enemy fire, give the player a number of shield power ups to use throughout each level, either by having the player pick them up, or just giving them to the player. This is again where Alien outback did a nice job, sinse having to decide when to use those power ups effectively adds another element to the game to increase it's challenge. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I don't doubt your right, however bare in mind my experience of the classic space invaders was always on consoles like the atari 2600, or very old computers like the bbc micro, I've never actually played the original arcade version. The graphics were never very specific on those, neither is my vision exactly great at instant object identification :D. i remember being about 4 or 5 and playing the Atari 2600 version, my dad explaining to me how to duck under the shields and fire and calling them alien spaceships, which might or might not have been correct, that's why I always sort of assumed they were spaceships, though it is entirely possible my dad wasn't correct either. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Actually, what I am talking about is the version for the Atari 2600. I wasn't talking about the actual arcade machines in arcades, bars, stores, etc. Although, in this case it doesn't make any difference as they were identical. However, I'll say that if you and your father played the game on a standard TV the invaders were not to distinct on smaller screens. I had a bit of an advantage in that my parents had a 78 inch projection TV which was huge, and I had no problems making out what the invaders really were on that scale. They were basically the head and torso of a guy in a red spacesuit descending from the spaceship at the top of the screen in columns and rows. However, on smaller screens it was possible people couldn't make out what they were and assumed they were little red spaceships not guys in red spacesuits. So the confusion is understandable even though the conclusion your father made wasn't correct. HTH On 5/21/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I don't doubt your right, however bare in mind my experience of the classic space invaders was always on consoles like the atari 2600, or very old computers like the bbc micro, I've never actually played the original arcade version. The graphics were never very specific on those, neither is my vision exactly great at instant object identification :D. i remember being about 4 or 5 and playing the Atari 2600 version, my dad explaining to me how to duck under the shields and fire and calling them alien spaceships, which might or might not have been correct, that's why I always sort of assumed they were spaceships, though it is entirely possible my dad wasn't correct either. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Sure, I do see where you are coming from. Removing the hovering shields and just giving them to the player would make sense. It changes the game, but in a way that forces the gamer to adopt a strategy when and where to use them rather than just passing under the hovering shields as needed. Besides there is a logical reason here to change it. As you may or may not remember as the level went on the invaders would drop bombs on the shields putting holes in them. The problem is that if you can see and want to use that shield you have to position yourself under a part of the shield that is undamaged. There is no way to represent in audio which part of the shield is damaged and which part is not. The only thing we could do is give status of shield power rather than visually represent holes in the shield meaning that we need to come up with a slightly different use for those shields that would offer a more audio friendly challenge. Cheers! On 5/21/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree on ship numbers, indeed that is another point of game design for good audio games, making sure that the sounds actually serve a regular purpose. Regarding the shields above your ship, This might also however be a case where changing the game design rather than simply removing something difficult to add might be a point in the games' favour. For example instead of having defensive shields above the player which absorb some of the enemy fire, give the player a number of shield power ups to use throughout each level, either by having the player pick them up, or just giving them to the player. This is again where Alien outback did a nice job, sinse having to decide when to use those power ups effectively adds another element to the game to increase it's challenge. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, I certainly see where you are coming from, but I see two problems with your conclusions. One, is that not every programmer has the same skills, and sometimes one programmer might think of a novel solution to solve a problem that another programmer would not think of to resolve a particular problem in converting some mainstream mechanics to audio. Two, just because a solution has not been introduced does not mean one does not exist. Merely that not all the possibilities have been tried yet. Let's take your example of Duck Hunt here. I'll be the first to admit Liam did not do the best job of converting that game to audio, because its overly simplistic compared to the NES version. The ducks simply fly across the screen and when they are in the center you hit space to shoot them. Pretty dull and not at all like the original game. However, as I sit here I can think of away to restore the original challenge of the game, and write Duck Hunt to be on par with the video game version. The way to do it would be to add an audio targeting system similar to what Justin did in the Gorbian levels of Troopanum 2. You would be able to move the targeting beep left and right until the duck is centered and then move it up and down to center it on the duck. When the pitch of the beep is at its maximum shoot. If tied with a game controller, mouse, or something we would effectively be recreating Duck Hunt almost exactly like the classic NES version, and have it be fully accessible. Not sure Liam had thought of trying anything like that when creating his version of Duck Hunt, but that is a case of where I think the experience could be drastically improved to be fairly close to the original in challenge and still use the same basic mechanics. I'll freely admit when I was working on Montezuma's Revenge I wasn't trying too hard to find solutions for various issues. I was primarily in a big hurry so if there was not something I knew how to do or have an idea how to get around some problem with converting some aspect of the game to audio I just skipped it intending to come back to the problem at a later time. Therefore certain things such as the bouncing skulls were left undone. That said, now that six years have passed since working on the game I have a few ideas in which I could have implemented the bouncing skulls. One way would be by introducing a bounce or jump sound for when the skulls bounced into the air, and a land sound for when they hit the ground. The Airbot battle in Super Liam is an example of one way the bouncing skulls could be made accessible, but I was in too much of a hurry at the time to really look for that kind of solution at the time. My point being just because various audio games lack a certain feature found in a video game counterpart doesn't mean it is impossible or too difficult to convert a specific mechanic from a video game to audio. It could be a lack of skill, shear laziness on the developers part, or simply a case of not thinking the problem completely through. I'm personally not ready to put the smackdown on converting video game mechanics to audio and give it the 1, 2, 3 until all alternatives have been explored. Cheers! On 5/21/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I do see your point in trying to give people who have not played the original the same experience, however my problem is what usually happens when a game is translated to audio from an original graphical conceptmy problem is that when a developer simply cannot replicate a mechanic in audio that mechanic gets missed. Take Liam's duckhunt for example. The original Duckhunt was challenging because the ducks could move at any angle across the screen, and the player had to either target them with the nes connected gun, or (even more difficult), line up a circle with his/her pad on the screen. The lining up targeting process was complex sinse the player could never guarantee his/her target was in the right place and it required the player to track the movement of his/her target, and the movement of the oncoming duck. Sinse however there wasn't a way to replicate the vertical movement or random target lining up of the ducks, we end up with a sterrio targeting game where the player hears the sound of the duck and must hit space when it's in the center, thus all the need to coordinate the original target position vs the position of the oncoming duck is missing from the game and once again we have a reaction test boppit affair. This is why I suggest instead of completely missing out a mechanic which is difficult to do in audio as most developers have done, and thus ending up with a less challenging and paler copy of the original lacking many of it's features, we considder adding audio mechanics to approximate the original challenge. I've seen far too many attempts to replicate mainstream games in audio that ran into this problem, from space invaders, to duckhunt, and yes, montizuma's
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Cara, That makes sense, and you are absolutely right that the short attention span issue is a very important one for many gamers. Many people want a game that is able to be picked up, played for a short while, set down, and picked up again with ease. there are many games like that which are hugely popular for that reason alone. I'll take my personal favorite Blackjack as an example. Its one of those games that is fairly simple to play, doesn't require in depth mechanics, and is great for playing when someone doesn't have a lot of time or just can't focus on a game for very long. I might be sitting in a waiting room for a few minutes before an appointment and fire up Blackjack on my laptop precisely because it is a game I can play 10 to 15 rounds, put down, and come back to it any time. Its not too involved and yet is fun to play for short stretches of time. Your point about having a longer game with many shorter levels is a good one. It allows someone constantly on the go or with a short attention span the ability to make quick and relatively painless achievements while not having completed the game itself. So instead of having 10 very large levels it would be better to have 20 smaller levels that would make it easier for gamers to get through the game quicker, to make quick achievements, while keeping the over all time to complete the full game the same. This makes sense as at strikes a balance between quantity of game while making it feasible to get instant rewards for playing. Cheers! On 5/20/14, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Hi Thomas, Thanks to you and Dark and others for this really great topic. Thomas, I personally think the attention span concept is a very important issue here. A significant amount of gaming is now done on mobile platforms which harkens back to my mention of games which can be played for a short time, put down, and then picked back up again later with ease. If one has a short attention span, a game like this can work well. I say this because most games of this nature are designed in such a way as to be able to allow the player achievements even if only played for short stretches of time and then put down again. This is specifically meant to enable people who may be busy during the day to play a game, move ahead in that game and then have it be possible to let it sit for a while before they pick it up again. Even the mobile games which are designed to be played in one sitting are of a shorter variety than some of the audio games we have seen here. The more long-form mobile games have shorter levels but more of them, so that people can play for a shorter time, accomplish something and then come back to it later. The constant stream of new available levels keep people coming back and the shortness of each level keeps the gameplay conducive to quicker sessions. So this works both for people on the go as well as those with a shorter attention span. Thanks! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Cara, Yes, precisely. During my development of Montezuma's Revenge and later Mysteries of the Ancients I ran into a number of cases where something as simple as height couldn't be translated perfectly into an audio equivalent. Using pitch is helpful, but still wasn't a perfect solution in all cases. For example in Montezuma's Revenge the gems are sort of hanging there in the air and you had to jump up and collect them. In the audio version they were purposely put on the same level or height because it was for all intents in purposes too difficult to have too many gems on the screen at various heights like in the original. I know in the original some gems were higher up on the screen making it difficult to get them without a higher jump or a running jump to grab it. I think James and I both felt having to do that would complicate matters from an audio only perspective. Besides that gems were also hanging out over pits, hanging between two ropes, etc meaning that you had to often times climb up to a certain height and jump out and catch it in the air. This was a tricky problem since all we can really do is adjust the panning, volume, and pitch of the gem making it somewhat tricky to exactly indicate in audio where that gem is in relation to the player. Using virtual 3d was no help because all that really did is increase or decrease the volume depending on height. Therefore we had to fall back on spoken feedback to render a more precise idea of where that gem was on the screen than just relying on audio alone. In Mysteries of the Ancients I had some other more interesting challenges dealing with height related issues. I had thought about making the fire pits more dangerous by having them throw fireballs at the player like in a few mainstream games I had played. If I used pitch to indicate fast or slow fireballs I could no longer rely on pitch to indicate weather the fireball should be ducked or jumped. If I had used that particular hazard I would either have to make all fireballs move at a static speed and use the pitch to indicate height, or I would have them come at the player from a static height and use the pitch for speed. I could not do both in audio. Cheers! On 5/20/14, Cara Quinn caraqu...@caraquinn.com wrote: Thomas, excellent points! Some of the simplest concepts can be extraordinarily difficult to translate into audio with any sense of simplicity and intuitiveness. For example, I believe Dark has alluded to this in the past; the concept of displaying the height of an object in a game with pitch is fine and has been used many times before. What about if one does not wish to use pitch so that the object's sound remains consistent? What then? This is where some very innovative approaches need to come in. You're right. Designing a great game is one thing but designing it to be great in audio is a whole other level of accomplishment! Thanks, Cara :) --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Ahem...I didn't mean to imply telegraphing attacks was only useful in fighting games. Just used that as a simple case example. I fully realize and am aware the concept works in many different styles and genres of games such as a classic Space Invaders type game. I agree with you that the concept is a good one. Particularly since it is a way in order to level the playing field between blind and sighted gamers. Since you mentioned Space Invaders let's go with that as an example. I remember when I use to play the game that there were frequently bombs falling out of the sky and one of the biggest challenges of that game was to avoid the bombs while getting in some shots of my own to blow the invaders out of the sky. No audio game version has attempted to write one where you have to avoid falling bombs while shooting the invaders out of the sky. I can see having a sound of an invader launching a bomb and a second or two of sound as the bomb falls allowing you to move out of the bombs way. In a case like that telegraphing an attack and continuing to play a sound of the falling bomb would be entirely appropriate because it would in effect mirror what a person would see in that particular game. I do not think, however, that you would have to reduce the number of ships to about five, because in the classic Space Invaders only the ships on the lowest row were dropping bombs. Therefore the invaders in the higher rows were pretty much harmless while the invaders on the lowest row were trying their best to blow you up. So you were only concerned with four or five enemies at a time as the invaders higher up dropped down to fill the space where you vaporized their comrades. At any rate I do agree there has to be more to the game mechanics than here it hit it which is what many audio games seem to boil down to. Sadly many audio games are not much better than Bop It. It is this aspect we do need to seriously work on/. Cheers! On 5/19/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I wouldn't say the rule book needs throwing out, so much as just rethinking. For example, you list the telegraphing of attacks as something for fighting games. While they could be used in that way, there is no reason not to use them elsewhere. For example, suppose that you were creating a space invaders style game. Thus far with a few exceptions, most audio space invaders style games haven't given the invaders much chance to do you damage other than by flying into you. Well suppose you gave a sound for just before the invader fired, and a sound when the shot hit the ground, then, instead of having the player instantly hit if he/she was under the ship when it fired, have the time the shot took to reach the ground dictated by how far the enemy was away from you. This would efectively mean that while the invaders would descend slowly, your job as a player wasn't simply to knock them off as fast as possible, but to dodge their bullets, either shooting them before they had a chance to fire, shooting them then dodging out of the way of the bullet, or even waiting until the bullet hit the ground, then running in and taking the invader out before the invader could fire again. Yes, you would have to reduce the number of invading ships on screen to at most about five, but I'd much rather need to duck and dive and dodge shots to evade five ships then have a hoard of 10 ships who I am just trying to blast Asap. This is the sort of thing I mean, considdering not just how to replicate a given game in audio, but how to replicate the mechanics of it's challenge factor so that it becomes more than just a reaction test. Of course, this has been done to an extent. Alien outback is great with it's various ship types and even has a ship with a powered up shot, (it's a shame it still has lots of fairly easy to slay ships too but there you go). I'd say it's a matter of trying to make sure the player has to do more than just hear and react instantlywhile factors such as analogue movement and randomness can help with that, given that audio has a limited view,it's a matter of making that view as challenging as possible and requiring much active participation from the player as possible. Beware the grue! dark. SoBeware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web,
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Well Bryan as I said, I'll probably have to look for the game sinse I still have my snes and I have always heard a lot about it, right from watching that old Captain N cartoon which featured King hippo as one of the bad guys. I'd actually now like to see that cartoon again, sinse I'm now much more familiar with many of the characters, in particular Mega man, Dr. wily and the various robot masters. Interesting to think when I first saw that back when i was about 9 or 10 I had no idea how much fun the mm games were or how much I'd enjoy playing them later on, though sinse Super Metroid was my favourite game at that point at least some of it was accurate :D.. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance To be completely accurate there were indeed a couple punchout games for the NES. Te first was Mike Tyson's Punch-out! which was released in I believe 1987 or thereabouts. Then a few years later there was Punch-Out! featuring Mr. Dream, though this was basically Mike Tyson's Punch-out! without Mike Tyson. Allthe fighters were the same including the Tyson fight, thoug his name was changed to Mr. Dream since by that time Nintendo had lost the license to use the Tyson name. I've also heard that Nintendo deliberately let the license lapse without renewing it after the real Mike Tyson raped an eighteen-year-old girl, but given that the Mr. Dream version of Punchout was released before that incident occurred I don't think this is true. Super Punch-out! is a sort of sequel to the NES Punch-out! titles, but it's muc more in line with the Arcade version which came even before the NES version. It features a few familiar faces from the original Punchout game with a bunch of new fighters. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hmmm, I didn't realize that. If thatwas the case I might look for a copy on Ebay. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Kara. I fully well agree that the achievement system and short levels of games can help a game's appeal a lot. I also do agree that the more a game can vary what is going on from level to level (especially if the progression is small), the better it can hold the interest of casual and long scale players alike as you said. The only problem however, is I've seen a lot of mobile games that follow this model, but are so simplistic as to be lacking in gameplay and interest. One example of these are the very many point and attack rpgs like the storm8 games, epical gladiators, rpg quest etc. These don't have complex stats or management to worry about, but equally they have reduced everything down to just one click actions. For example in Vampires live you just hit a button saying search the park for victims and get stronger, no explanation of what you do, no need to navigate around, indeed the player is very divorced from the action. This might work for some people, but for others it is just far too minimal, especially sinse it's appeal very much is aimed at sighted people who get the games' atmosphere through the pictures. If Solara's popularity has shown anything in the Vi community, it is that even in a casual game atmosphere and setting matter indeed I will say that if Solara didn't have the descriptions and story and was just the hero lineup and automatic fights I'd likely have never played it myself. Another interesting fact about mobile devices however,is that instant saving means even a long and complex game can be played casually. For instance I played zombie exodus over quite a long period, sometimes on trains, sometimes waiting for a bus. All I needed to do at any point / was shut the program and I'd start from where I was before, and of course sinse te game was text, itwas always possible to know where I was or what was going on. The same might even be said for King of Dragon pass. So, while I do agree achievements, gradual rogress and appeal to casual gamers is a factor, I don't think this necessarily automatically translates into cutting the games' complexity or atmosphere, rather it's a question of whether the game is possible to pick up in a relatively short time, play a bit and put down then pick up again and yet still make progress. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi kara. You are correct that visually all events in a game require the player to notice before hand, however my point was not really about reaction times. it's quite possible to react to an audio stimulous as fast as a visual one and your absolutely correct about some blind people with super fast speech, however the problem is showing information with enough accuracy to make the game appeal to a player's faculties of judgement, logic, and knolidge of the mechanics, rather than just reducing down to a boppit style reaction test. One of the things that makes graphical space invaders so appealing is that the player is tracking many factors at once. The position of the spaceships above them, the firing of bullets from those ships and the need to dodge, the position of their shields, and the position of not only the particular invader they're shooting but the ones right across the screen. My suggestion of telegraphing attacks therefore wasn't to slow down the necessary reactions, but to give the player more information about factors other than the immediate threat, so that the player is required to make value judgements about in game objects and how they behave, not just hear it, hit it You are definitely right that such a thing would not be necessary in an fps like Audio quake, but that is because the audio fp view already gives the player a good amount of information for tracking in game objects and making judgements about their movements and position, indeed this is likely why games like Swamp, Shades of doom etc have become so popular, sinse they do! give the player more to engage with than just basic reaction speed. hope this makes sense. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi kara. Sorry if I didn't explain the idea adequately. I have not heard of or played Star castle, but certainly telegraphing attacks is not a new idea in mainstream games either, even telegraphing in audio. For example, in the super marrio brothers castles, when you get close to bowser, fireballs start flying across the screen. Interestingly enough, the low, growling sound of each fireball plays before it actually flies out. So when you hear that particular growling noise you know you need to prepare to jump or dodge a fireball, or duck out of the way somewhere. It's just a matter of increasing the amount of infomation available to the player so that the player is doing more than just reacting to the sound of an immediate threat. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I agree on casual games, but there are also cases where the very size of levels is what makes them appealing such as the Metroid series, or indeed complex muds like Alteraeon. In these cases this is where instant saving can help a lot, even if the over all level is much larger. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. five invaders was an approximate figure, my point was simply that you probably couldn't have as many as in a game like troopanum sinse there is a problem of informational overload. Look at the start of the Lord Vector fight at the end of troop 2 as one example. There you've got three shields to shoot and falling invader ships, but frequently I've found it hard to hear the sound of the ships over the sound of the shields. This of course comes down to good sound design and choosing sounds that are possible to distinguish (I thought those shields sounded a bit loud), but equally there is a game design point here too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. Interesting thoughts and I will agree problems with depicting hight have provided major issues for 2d games in audio. That being said, maybe this is a case where adapting some of the mechanics to be more challenging in audio rather than explicitly trying to replicate the mainstream ones would be helpful. For example, instead of trying to make the sound of fireballs which hit the player out of pits, have the fireballs loop out of pits and land on the ground creating temporary burning flames that damaged or killed the player. Effectively this would mean instead of ducking or jumping fireballs, the player would have a floor hazard (the burning section of floor), to time their way past in addition to jumping the pits, and a floor hazard who's appearence was dictated by the different sounds of fireball landings. By varying the rates you could keep the player needing to take note of when the fireballs hit and the floors near the pits burned, rather than just timing things statically For the gems, well instead of having the gems at different hights, why not have some of the gems initiate a small rock falling from the ceiling Indiana jones style which the player needs to dodge, or maybe have some gems on sliding shelves so that the player needs to grab them at a given point, (both of these could be varied to provide different challenge). Noo, this does not address the problem of showing hight in a 2D game, in audio which is quite another matter, but rather than just missing out the fireballs, making them static, or having the player grab gems, you insert another factor for the player to be aware of in the game which will increase the level of challenge in the audio. of course, these are just rough ideas and doubtless would need thinking about, but this is the sort of thing I mean in terms of creating more challenging and in depth audio games that are not just the simple boppit affairs, working on the mechanics of what is possible to show in audio and working to making those mechanics have a similar level of challenge and interest to the mainstream game rather than replicating it exactly. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
King Hippo was my favorite fighter in the original punch-out! Super Punch-out has a few fighters nearly as corpulant but none of them was quite so easy to take down even once you learned their patterns. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:14 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Well Bryan as I said, I'll probably have to look for the game sinse I still have my snes and I have always heard a lot about it, right from watching that old Captain N cartoon which featured King hippo as one of the bad guys. I'd actually now like to see that cartoon again, sinse I'm now much more familiar with many of the characters, in particular Mega man, Dr. wily and the various robot masters. Interesting to think when I first saw that back when i was about 9 or 10 I had no idea how much fun the mm games were or how much I'd enjoy playing them later on, though sinse Super Metroid was my favourite game at that point at least some of it was accurate :D.. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Tuesday, May 20, 2014 1:58 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance To be completely accurate there were indeed a couple punchout games for the NES. Te first was Mike Tyson's Punch-out! which was released in I believe 1987 or thereabouts. Then a few years later there was Punch-Out! featuring Mr. Dream, though this was basically Mike Tyson's Punch-out! without Mike Tyson. Allthe fighters were the same including the Tyson fight, thoug his name was changed to Mr. Dream since by that time Nintendo had lost the license to use the Tyson name. I've also heard that Nintendo deliberately let the license lapse without renewing it after the real Mike Tyson raped an eighteen-year-old girl, but given that the Mr. Dream version of Punchout was released before that incident occurred I don't think this is true. Super Punch-out! is a sort of sequel to the NES Punch-out! titles, but it's muc more in line with the Arcade version which came even before the NES version. It features a few familiar faces from the original Punchout game with a bunch of new fighters. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hmmm, I didn't realize that. If thatwas the case I might look for a copy on Ebay. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Well, the problem I see with that is simply this. While not precisely replicating mainstream mechanics might be helpful from an accessibility point of view it still does not give us a comparable experience. What we end up with is a different experience or challenge entirely which may or may not be favorable depending on the game. Take Montezuma's Revenge for example. That's a game based on a mainstream video game. I'd assume for authenticity sake a developer would keep the traps and challenges as much the same as possible. Changing the behavior of the gems to fall from the ceiling like the falling items in Q9 is interesting but not necessarily favorable in that particular game because the original mainstream game had its own unique and interesting challenges which I for one would like to see replicated in audio not changed. I certainly agree with you to a point sometimes if something can't be done in audio then changing the mechanics to suit an audio game should be done rather than replicating mainstream mechanics, but I also see reasons why that should not be done. Its okay if the game is an original idea written for an audio game market to use new and interesting mechanics, but if it is a retro remake of a classic game I think it should attempt to imitate the game it was based upon as much as possible. Cheers! On 5/20/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Interesting thoughts and I will agree problems with depicting hight have provided major issues for 2d games in audio. That being said, maybe this is a case where adapting some of the mechanics to be more challenging in audio rather than explicitly trying to replicate the mainstream ones would be helpful. For example, instead of trying to make the sound of fireballs which hit the player out of pits, have the fireballs loop out of pits and land on the ground creating temporary burning flames that damaged or killed the player. Effectively this would mean instead of ducking or jumping fireballs, the player would have a floor hazard (the burning section of floor), to time their way past in addition to jumping the pits, and a floor hazard who's appearence was dictated by the different sounds of fireball landings. By varying the rates you could keep the player needing to take note of when the fireballs hit and the floors near the pits burned, rather than just timing things statically For the gems, well instead of having the gems at different hights, why not have some of the gems initiate a small rock falling from the ceiling Indiana jones style which the player needs to dodge, or maybe have some gems on sliding shelves so that the player needs to grab them at a given point, (both of these could be varied to provide different challenge). Noo, this does not address the problem of showing hight in a 2D game, in audio which is quite another matter, but rather than just missing out the fireballs, making them static, or having the player grab gems, you insert another factor for the player to be aware of in the game which will increase the level of challenge in the audio. of course, these are just rough ideas and doubtless would need thinking about, but this is the sort of thing I mean in terms of creating more challenging and in depth audio games that are not just the simple boppit affairs, working on the mechanics of what is possible to show in audio and working to making those mechanics have a similar level of challenge and interest to the mainstream game rather than replicating it exactly. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Good point. Level 16 in Troop 2 is a royal pain because there are too many sounds playing making it confusing from an audio perspective which demonstrates the sort of problem with a true Space Invaders clone with 24 ships on screen at once. If I were to write a true Space Invaders clone with the exact number of ships as the classic game I think ships not in firing range, IE not in the lower rows, would have to be silenced or the volume drastically lowered so that the ships in the bottom rows can be heard clearly by the gamer. However, that isn't the only problem. As you know there are shields or walls you can hide under to keep from being attacked by the invaders. Those would also have to be audible increasing the confusion unless they were quiet enough to hear the ships and distinct enough they can be identified despite the sound of enemy ships and bombs all around you. So I do take your point. While creating the mechanics of a classic Space Invader game is easy representing it in audio is difficult because of informational overloading. Cheers! On 5/20/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. five invaders was an approximate figure, my point was simply that you probably couldn't have as many as in a game like troopanum sinse there is a problem of informational overload. Look at the start of the Lord Vector fight at the end of troop 2 as one example. There you've got three shields to shoot and falling invader ships, but frequently I've found it hard to hear the sound of the ships over the sound of the shields. This of course comes down to good sound design and choosing sounds that are possible to distinguish (I thought those shields sounded a bit loud), but equally there is a game design point here too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi. This is a good thread. It gives us at VGA things to think about with our own projects. Without spoiling too much we definitely have been trying to keep the game play really simple. I'm actually concerned that people may find our first game to be too simple and wonder why we really expected people to want to play it. But in actually the game is pretty complex, it's sort of like an iOS device, simplified complexity. At the same time, I think you'd have to make sure the game is, as others are saying, keeping the player engaged, so they want to keep coming back for more. I think replay value itself applies here too, we've talked about that on here before. We hope not to make all of our games menu driven, that would be a bit tedious just from a coder standpoint, messing with the same kind of code all the time for various projects. But at the same time, what's really wrong with the menu driven platform? There are lots of really cool menu driven games out there. So we thought we would try to make a menu driven game that would take advantage of what we could think of that the menu driven platform provides. One prime example is useful for beginner users. We have built in a menu specific f1 keyboard shortcut that opens our documentation up to the specific portion that covers what the menu you were in when you hit f1 does. That's a little easier to do when the player is in a specific menu as is the case most of the time in our yet to be released project. Also, if it were some sort of realtime simulation game, this would have to pause the game if we did manage to make it activity specific, so if you imagine trying to bring this functionality over to shades of doom, I guess you would have to figure out maybe you need help navigation around in a room if you press f1 while your character is standing in a room. The game would have to pause if you press f1 so no monster can come butcher you while you're innocently trying to read help files with the game puttering along in the background. With menus, the game is always paused when it presents you with menus anyway so it makes a little easier sense. We have tried to make the speech really good quality and very responsive. This we thought was another way to make menus more useful. If it's really fast to arrow through the menu in search of the desired option that would be a help. Anyway, I feel like I've been rambling on long enough here, but this is a good thread, I'm watching closely. should we finally get to the point where we may try to develop games with me On 5/20/2014 12:40 AM, Cara Quinn wrote: Thomas, excellent points! Some of the simplest concepts can be extraordinarily difficult to translate into audio with any sense of simplicity and intuitiveness. For example, I believe Dark has alluded to this in the past; the concept of displaying the height of an object in a game with pitch is fine and has been used many times before. What about if one does not wish to use pitch so that the object's sound remains consistent? What then? This is where some very innovative approaches need to come in. You're right. Designing a great game is one thing but designing it to be great in audio is a whole other level of accomplishment! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 19, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Eleanor, I agree. A good game, an especially well designed game, has a good balance between simple mechanics but complexity and depth. That is hard to achieve. It is for that reason game developers go back to the well per se to try and replicate the same thing they have done before hoping of repeating the success of their previous hit title. Unfortunately, for us, since we are trying to worry about accessibility as well as fun and challenge it makes the problem more complex for the developer. Sighted mainstream game developers have managed to come up with reasonably simplistic but complex game mechanics that have worked well in a number of classic titles for the Atari, NES, Super NES, etc that wouldn't necessarily work so well in an audio equivalent. Adapting those mechanics to be accessible is the real trick here. Cheers! On 5/15/14, Eleanor elea...@7128.com wrote: This is an interesting discussion. I can see that you need to have a balance between popularity and individual preference as both Cara and Dark indicate, and that the game needs to be simple to play, but have depth and complexity to make it a good game. But there another component that I have been looking for and admittedly have not found, and that is an engaging game mechanism. The way in which you play the game has to suck you in and keep you coming back for more. It can't be too simple nor too frustrating. The really fun games increase in difficulty slowly as you
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Obviously, it must be said that not all things will appeal equally to all people. I myself prefer a game with larger levels, fairly in depth missions, whatever and therefore casual games don't often appeal to me for long periods of time. That said, I can see why people with short attention spans or that are only casual gamers would be drawn to games with small levels where they can quickly obtain achievements without feeling overwhelmed by having to do to much to get anywhere in the game. There is plenty of room for both types here. As you said having automatic saves or certain restore points would make larger games more appealing to casual gamers because they could stop at any time and resume where they left off. A lot of larger games such as Tomb Raider, for example, have specified restore points where if Lara Croft grabs a restore crystal the game will be saved and will be restored from that point making the game easier to get through as some of those games do have some fairly large and in depth levels to get through. As I recall Titan Quest has something similar in place. There are places in the game where you can go stand to save your game and it will restore to that point. Such things have been done in many mainstream titles and therefore automatic saves does help breakup a large game into several smaller sessions for people who don't want to sit there playing for x hours at a time. Cheers! On 5/20/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I agree on casual games, but there are also cases where the very size of levels is what makes them appealing such as the Metroid series, or indeed complex muds like Alteraeon. In these cases this is where instant saving can help a lot, even if the over all level is much larger. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Just a slight correction if I might. This is not intended to be anything more than information for information's sake. Dark wrote: One of the things that makes graphical space invaders so appealing is that the player is tracking many factors at once. The position of the spaceships above them, the firing of bullets from those ships and the need to dodge, the position of their shields, and the position of not only the particular invader they're shooting but the ones right across the screen. End quote Actually, the invaders themselves are little guys in red spacesuits descending from a spaceship at the top of the screen. As I recall the mothership doesn't attack the player. Only the little guys in red spacesuits drop bombs or bullets at the player. I suspect your use of spaceships is based on the various audio renditions of Space Invaders where many spaceships are used rather than little aliens in red spacesuits. Its an understandable mistake, but just wanted to point out in classic Space Invaders, the one you are talking about, it is several aliens in spacesuits not spaceships the player is shooting at. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Shaun, Hmm...Interesting. Admittedly I have only played the demo of Super Liam, but I never felt the game was that hard. True, you do need to pay attention and concentrate on what you are doing, but that sort of applies to any game. However, if you have a short attention span, are unable to concentrate on the game, then obviously it would be harder for you to play a game for any length of time. That, unfortunately, does not address the primary issue here. What makes a good or bad game. Cheers! On 5/16/14, Shaun Everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: what I have found with games is with some of the more challenging ones you need the capacity to contrate. For me superliam is quite hard. I never seem to have enough brain power to keep concentrated for the entire game. Most of the time I barely make it past level 4 or if I am lucky 7 level2 but almost never to the boss. After tying to get there I get discouraged and leave the game alone for a while. And when I finally come back it happens again. Ofcause real life has distracted me a lot these days and shows no sign of abating which is why I haven't gone after getting codes for games from liam lately. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Dark, I think Eleanor was talking about game mechanics the same as you. Different terminology, but same basic concept. Cheers! On 5/16/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Eleanor. I'm afraid I'm not exactly sure what you mean by game mechanism here. I've seen various forms of game with different controllers be more or less successful. For example Papasangre on the Iphone very much has the sort of difficulty you mention, plus good atmosphere and a simple challenge to get into, but features a first person interface and a very unique control method using the touch screen. Entombed just uses menues and basic arrow key movement, but is one of the most engaging games I've seen, albeit there are some balance issues which make the flow of the game problematic. Your own games use a basic keyboard choice interface which seems fine. The problem of difficulty seems only tangentially tied to the game's interface and control method. For me a far more serius problem is how! difficulty increases. For example, if the player is just required to react faster and faster and faster, then there will simply be a point when enough is enough. If however there are other factors than reaction involved, the player is tempted to try again and again, sinse while reaction speed can improve only slowly, the ability to get used to game mechanics and make correct judgements can improve far more quickly. Similarly for rpg or other management style games, if the player is tested simply on their abaility to balance lots of equipment, but the fighting itself is fairly dull (just hitting attack), the game can quickly become uninteresting, sinse the player is not being continually tested, particularly sinse the battle might already be lost because the player simply does not have the correct gear. If however the player is required to look at their enemy's movement and react to what they do, then the player's chance of winning is equally dependent upon their ability to interpret and react to what their enemy does. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Eleanor, I agree. A good game, an especially well designed game, has a good balance between simple mechanics but complexity and depth. That is hard to achieve. It is for that reason game developers go back to the well per se to try and replicate the same thing they have done before hoping of repeating the success of their previous hit title. Unfortunately, for us, since we are trying to worry about accessibility as well as fun and challenge it makes the problem more complex for the developer. Sighted mainstream game developers have managed to come up with reasonably simplistic but complex game mechanics that have worked well in a number of classic titles for the Atari, NES, Super NES, etc that wouldn't necessarily work so well in an audio equivalent. Adapting those mechanics to be accessible is the real trick here. Cheers! On 5/15/14, Eleanor elea...@7128.com wrote: This is an interesting discussion. I can see that you need to have a balance between popularity and individual preference as both Cara and Dark indicate, and that the game needs to be simple to play, but have depth and complexity to make it a good game. But there another component that I have been looking for and admittedly have not found, and that is an engaging game mechanism. The way in which you play the game has to suck you in and keep you coming back for more. It can't be too simple nor too frustrating. The really fun games increase in difficulty slowly as you progress through the game until you are scrambling to complete a level and are really invested in doing so. Part of the lack of different kinds of games is that it is difficult to find a new mechanism, so many developers fall back on the ones that have worked in the past - thus the sequel games of any game that made a name for itself. Another problem with the story type games is that there is not a good tool for building your interactive story that leads you to different scenes depending on the choices you make. It is hard to do the connections and dependencies by hand in an intricate story with lots of alternatives at each decision point. Oh well, that's why we are interested in doing this - it is a challenge. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I do agree access is an issue, but what I find quite interesting is that many of the very successful audio games have introduced features which incorporate elements of the audio experience into the game, rather than directly trying to adapt mainstream games verbatim. For all swamp borrows from various fps elements, there is a lot in the game that wouldn't exist without the audio. For example zombi footsteps, the need of using rythm to create head shots, even aspects of the mouse targeting system. Audio packman, (as I've said before), is for me a much more intresting play experience than graphical packman, it lacks the total maze overview and management of several elements at once, ie, being able to see where packman and all the ghosts are at all times and tracking movements accordingly. however audio packman instead introduces an exporation and area navigation mechanic, as well as a good degree of split second timing. The same could be said for shades of doom and enemies like the silent walkers or use of audio nav elements to create hazards. This is one reason why it is likely a lot of mainstream gamers got interested in Papasangre from somethinelse, sinse their games represent a lot of use of audio elements for direct challenge, for instance having floor sections that when walked over will mean the enemies come to get the player by noise, or hazards created by things that are harder to hear. I wonder therefore if a good way to considder game design, rather than the method in the past of trying to recreate as much of mainstream games as possible, might be to work on what might create a good game in audio. For example, we have mentioned before the problem of judgement vs reaction and of showing realistic enemy attacks in a side scrolling game. Suppose however, rather than trying to directly model the idea of the player having to avoid attacks, we introduce audio factors which mean the player must use his/her judgement to counter them. So imagine a 1D side scroller ala superliam (or even one with climbable ladders like mota). The player is armed with a sword and shield, and has two buttons, one to attack with the sword, one to block with the shield. Enemies will either initiate a melee attack, which must be parried with the sword, or a projectile attack which must be blocked with the shield. EAch of these attacks is telegraphed, ie, the player hears it coming, however the speed of it landing will depend upon the distance from the enemy, meaning the player must estimate a specific time interval from hearing the sound of the enemy launching the attack and of either parrying or shielding, I'm thinking somehting similar to Jim's golf game though with different sounds). In addition of course, the player is more likely to hit the enemy when the enemy is not attacking. Then of course, if each attack type has specific sounds there are possibilities such as arrows flying out of walls, or even fire balls out of pits which the player needs to shield against (we'll assume it's a magic shield). In a mainstream game, this sort of thing wouldn't work, sinse the player always has access to what the enemy is doing, indeed the original prince of persia was cryticised for using soemthing similar, (though slightly simpler). It is also absolutely obsurd that any mainstream game would telegraph it's attacks before launching them unless for a very specific reason. This would however be a case where audio could be used to create a simple judgement based combat system which would contribute significantly to the playability of the game where as simply having attack sounds the player needs to instantly react to would not. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Dark, Hmm...I honestly haven't thought of things quite that way, but you are right. While I have been working on Montezuma's Revenge and Mysteries of the Ancients I have always strived to aim for mainstream game mechanics and have been trying to adapt them to an audio only environment. In many ways that has not worked out too well, because those game mechanics either require some working vision to work properly or I end up making them overly simplistic in order to make them accessible. As you pointed out what ultimately needs to happen as old school developers like myself who are use to mainstream game mechanics really need to throw out the rule book and think of what would be good for an audio only environment. That, of course, requires a bit of thought and planning as we are thinking up an entirely new set of game mechanics that are specific to an audio only environment. For one thing I do like your suggestion of enemies telegraphing their actions or intentions and then being able to block it. I can easily see that being quite useful for a hand-to-hand fighting game like Double Dragon where a thug would make various swishing or swooshing sounds before a kick, chop, or punch. That would give you enough time to block the attack and then attempt to get in a kick, chop, or punch of your own. As you stated in a normal mainstream game there is no need to telegraph an enemy opponent's moves because a sighted person can see the kick, punch, or chop coming and can dodge out of the way or block it. Adding some sort of sound to indicate that particular attack is coming helps give an audio player the same advantage to dodge or block the attack. I don't know how much work it would require to do something like this for MOTA at this late stage of development, but I do see ways of making that work. Right now when the centaurs attack it is a single sound of them pulling the bow string back and then firing the arrow. If I had separate sounds I could use the sound of the bow string as a queue that the arrow was coming. The player could react to the bow string by ducking down, jumping out of the way, or blocking an arrow with a shield. This would make it far more strategic because while doing those actions you would still have to shoot them and not get turned into a human porcupine yourself. Cheers! On 5/19/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I do agree access is an issue, but what I find quite interesting is that many of the very successful audio games have introduced features which incorporate elements of the audio experience into the game, rather than directly trying to adapt mainstream games verbatim. For all swamp borrows from various fps elements, there is a lot in the game that wouldn't exist without the audio. For example zombi footsteps, the need of using rythm to create head shots, even aspects of the mouse targeting system. Audio packman, (as I've said before), is for me a much more intresting play experience than graphical packman, it lacks the total maze overview and management of several elements at once, ie, being able to see where packman and all the ghosts are at all times and tracking movements accordingly. however audio packman instead introduces an exporation and area navigation mechanic, as well as a good degree of split second timing. The same could be said for shades of doom and enemies like the silent walkers or use of audio nav elements to create hazards. This is one reason why it is likely a lot of mainstream gamers got interested in Papasangre from somethinelse, sinse their games represent a lot of use of audio elements for direct challenge, for instance having floor sections that when walked over will mean the enemies come to get the player by noise, or hazards created by things that are harder to hear. I wonder therefore if a good way to considder game design, rather than the method in the past of trying to recreate as much of mainstream games as possible, might be to work on what might create a good game in audio. For example, we have mentioned before the problem of judgement vs reaction and of showing realistic enemy attacks in a side scrolling game. Suppose however, rather than trying to directly model the idea of the player having to avoid attacks, we introduce audio factors which mean the player must use his/her judgement to counter them. So imagine a 1D side scroller ala superliam (or even one with climbable ladders like mota). The player is armed with a sword and shield, and has two buttons, one to attack with the sword, one to block with the shield. Enemies will either initiate a melee attack, which must be parried with the sword, or a projectile attack which must be blocked with the shield. EAch of these attacks is telegraphed, ie, the player hears it coming, however the speed of it landing will depend upon the distance from the enemy, meaning the player must estimate a specific time interval from hearing the sound
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
True Tom. In the old SNES game Super Punch-Out! for instance, some of the fighters would telegraph some of their special punches with visual actions that were accompanied by small sound effects. Oftentimes there was a certain pattern to these cues and it was possible to know what he was about to do and when the best time was to try to dodge. The boxer Dragon Chan, to pick one at random, had an attack where he would jump onto the ropes and launch a karate kick at you. You knew he was about to do this because he would make a little noise that almost sounded like oops, then give two hiyahs! You knew that on the second hiyah! he would launch his attack, which was pretty much guaranteed to down you if it hit you, so you had to duck. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:57 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Hmm...I honestly haven't thought of things quite that way, but you are right. While I have been working on Montezuma's Revenge and Mysteries of the Ancients I have always strived to aim for mainstream game mechanics and have been trying to adapt them to an audio only environment. In many ways that has not worked out too well, because those game mechanics either require some working vision to work properly or I end up making them overly simplistic in order to make them accessible. As you pointed out what ultimately needs to happen as old school developers like myself who are use to mainstream game mechanics really need to throw out the rule book and think of what would be good for an audio only environment. That, of course, requires a bit of thought and planning as we are thinking up an entirely new set of game mechanics that are specific to an audio only environment. For one thing I do like your suggestion of enemies telegraphing their actions or intentions and then being able to block it. I can easily see that being quite useful for a hand-to-hand fighting game like Double Dragon where a thug would make various swishing or swooshing sounds before a kick, chop, or punch. That would give you enough time to block the attack and then attempt to get in a kick, chop, or punch of your own. As you stated in a normal mainstream game there is no need to telegraph an enemy opponent's moves because a sighted person can see the kick, punch, or chop coming and can dodge out of the way or block it. Adding some sort of sound to indicate that particular attack is coming helps give an audio player the same advantage to dodge or block the attack. I don't know how much work it would require to do something like this for MOTA at this late stage of development, but I do see ways of making that work. Right now when the centaurs attack it is a single sound of them pulling the bow string back and then firing the arrow. If I had separate sounds I could use the sound of the bow string as a queue that the arrow was coming. The player could react to the bow string by ducking down, jumping out of the way, or blocking an arrow with a shield. This would make it far more strategic because while doing those actions you would still have to shoot them and not get turned into a human porcupine yourself. Cheers! On 5/19/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. I do agree access is an issue, but what I find quite interesting is that many of the very successful audio games have introduced features which incorporate elements of the audio experience into the game, rather than directly trying to adapt mainstream games verbatim. For all swamp borrows from various fps elements, there is a lot in the game that wouldn't exist without the audio. For example zombi footsteps, the need of using rythm to create head shots, even aspects of the mouse targeting system. Audio packman, (as I've said before), is for me a much more intresting play experience than graphical packman, it lacks the total maze overview and management of several elements at once, ie, being able to see where packman and all the ghosts are at all times and tracking movements accordingly. however audio packman instead introduces an exporation and area navigation mechanic, as well as a good degree of split second timing. The same could be said for shades of doom and enemies like the silent walkers or use of audio nav elements to create hazards. This is one reason why it is likely a lot of mainstream gamers got interested in Papasangre from somethinelse, sinse their games represent a lot of use of audio elements for direct challenge, for instance having floor sections that when walked over will mean the enemies come to get the player by noise, or hazards
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Tom. I wouldn't say the rule book needs throwing out, so much as just rethinking. For example, you list the telegraphing of attacks as something for fighting games. While they could be used in that way, there is no reason not to use them elsewhere. For example, suppose that you were creating a space invaders style game. Thus far with a few exceptions, most audio space invaders style games haven't given the invaders much chance to do you damage other than by flying into you. Well suppose you gave a sound for just before the invader fired, and a sound when the shot hit the ground, then, instead of having the player instantly hit if he/she was under the ship when it fired, have the time the shot took to reach the ground dictated by how far the enemy was away from you. This would efectively mean that while the invaders would descend slowly, your job as a player wasn't simply to knock them off as fast as possible, but to dodge their bullets, either shooting them before they had a chance to fire, shooting them then dodging out of the way of the bullet, or even waiting until the bullet hit the ground, then running in and taking the invader out before the invader could fire again. Yes, you would have to reduce the number of invading ships on screen to at most about five, but I'd much rather need to duck and dive and dodge shots to evade five ships then have a hoard of 10 ships who I am just trying to blast Asap. This is the sort of thing I mean, considdering not just how to replicate a given game in audio, but how to replicate the mechanics of it's challenge factor so that it becomes more than just a reaction test. Of course, this has been done to an extent. Alien outback is great with it's various ship types and even has a ship with a powered up shot, (it's a shame it still has lots of fairly easy to slay ships too but there you go). I'd say it's a matter of trying to make sure the player has to do more than just hear and react instantlywhile factors such as analogue movement and randomness can help with that, given that audio has a limited view,it's a matter of making that view as challenging as possible and requiring much active participation from the player as possible. Beware the grue! dark. SoBeware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Bryan. I have never actually played super punchout (never owned a nes), so I will take your word for it, though I have seen tells in other games, for example many of the mega ma bosses workedi this way. It's not however just a matter of telegraphing attacks, after all several games require the player o hear a sund, get ready and react, jumps in 1D side scrollers with two step boundaries, the attacks of several bosses in superliam etc. It's a matter of making the player have as much information so they can make a judgement. For example, if enemies have to physically attack the player rather than just running into them, and you hear an enemy telegraphing to hit you, you then need to decide whether your within enough range to go in and do them in before they attack, or whether to wait to avoid the attack, something which might be a less major decision depending upon how far away the enemy is, and what weapons you or the enemy has at their disposal. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
It was a SNES game not An NES game. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. I have never actually played super punchout (never owned a nes), so I will take your word for it, though I have seen tells in other games, for example many of the mega ma bosses workedi this way. It's not however just a matter of telegraphing attacks, after all several games require the player o hear a sund, get ready and react, jumps in 1D side scrollers with two step boundaries, the attacks of several bosses in superliam etc. It's a matter of making the player have as much information so they can make a judgement. For example, if enemies have to physically attack the player rather than just running into them, and you hear an enemy telegraphing to hit you, you then need to decide whether your within enough range to go in and do them in before they attack, or whether to wait to avoid the attack, something which might be a less major decision depending upon how far away the enemy is, and what weapons you or the enemy has at their disposal. beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hmmm, I didn't realize that. If thatwas the case I might look for a copy on Ebay. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
To be completely accurate there were indeed a couple punchout games for the NES. Te first was Mike Tyson's Punch-out! which was released in I believe 1987 or thereabouts. Then a few years later there was Punch-Out! featuring Mr. Dream, though this was basically Mike Tyson's Punch-out! without Mike Tyson. Allthe fighters were the same including the Tyson fight, thoug his name was changed to Mr. Dream since by that time Nintendo had lost the license to use the Tyson name. I've also heard that Nintendo deliberately let the license lapse without renewing it after the real Mike Tyson raped an eighteen-year-old girl, but given that the Mr. Dream version of Punchout was released before that incident occurred I don't think this is true. Super Punch-out! is a sort of sequel to the NES Punch-out! titles, but it's muc more in line with the Arcade version which came even before the NES version. It features a few familiar faces from the original Punchout game with a bunch of new fighters. Oh freddled gruntbuggly, thy micturations are to me as plurdled gabbleblotchits on a lurgid bee. GroupI implore thee, my foonting turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hmmm, I didn't realize that. If thatwas the case I might look for a copy on Ebay. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Hi Thomas, Thanks to you and Dark and others for this really great topic. Thomas, I personally think the attention span concept is a very important issue here. A significant amount of gaming is now done on mobile platforms which harkens back to my mention of games which can be played for a short time, put down, and then picked back up again later with ease. If one has a short attention span, a game like this can work well. I say this because most games of this nature are designed in such a way as to be able to allow the player achievements even if only played for short stretches of time and then put down again. This is specifically meant to enable people who may be busy during the day to play a game, move ahead in that game and then have it be possible to let it sit for a while before they pick it up again. Even the mobile games which are designed to be played in one sitting are of a shorter variety than some of the audio games we have seen here. The more long-form mobile games have shorter levels but more of them, so that people can play for a shorter time, accomplish something and then come back to it later. The constant stream of new available levels keep people coming back and the shortness of each level keeps the gameplay conducive to quicker sessions. So this works both for people on the go as well as those with a shorter attention span. Thanks! Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 19, 2014, at 12:40 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Shaun, Hmm...Interesting. Admittedly I have only played the demo of Super Liam, but I never felt the game was that hard. True, you do need to pay attention and concentrate on what you are doing, but that sort of applies to any game. However, if you have a short attention span, are unable to concentrate on the game, then obviously it would be harder for you to play a game for any length of time. That, unfortunately, does not address the primary issue here. What makes a good or bad game. Cheers! On 5/16/14, Shaun Everiss sm.ever...@gmail.com wrote: what I have found with games is with some of the more challenging ones you need the capacity to contrate. For me superliam is quite hard. I never seem to have enough brain power to keep concentrated for the entire game. Most of the time I barely make it past level 4 or if I am lucky 7 level2 but almost never to the boss. After tying to get there I get discouraged and leave the game alone for a while. And when I finally come back it happens again. Ofcause real life has distracted me a lot these days and shows no sign of abating which is why I haven't gone after getting codes for games from liam lately. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance
Thomas, excellent points! Some of the simplest concepts can be extraordinarily difficult to translate into audio with any sense of simplicity and intuitiveness. For example, I believe Dark has alluded to this in the past; the concept of displaying the height of an object in a game with pitch is fine and has been used many times before. What about if one does not wish to use pitch so that the object's sound remains consistent? What then? This is where some very innovative approaches need to come in. You're right. Designing a great game is one thing but designing it to be great in audio is a whole other level of accomplishment! Thanks, Cara :) --- iOS design and development - LookTel.com --- View my Online Portfolio at: http://www.onemodelplace.com/CaraQuinn Follow me on Twitter! https://twitter.com/ModelCara On May 19, 2014, at 12:53 AM, Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Eleanor, I agree. A good game, an especially well designed game, has a good balance between simple mechanics but complexity and depth. That is hard to achieve. It is for that reason game developers go back to the well per se to try and replicate the same thing they have done before hoping of repeating the success of their previous hit title. Unfortunately, for us, since we are trying to worry about accessibility as well as fun and challenge it makes the problem more complex for the developer. Sighted mainstream game developers have managed to come up with reasonably simplistic but complex game mechanics that have worked well in a number of classic titles for the Atari, NES, Super NES, etc that wouldn't necessarily work so well in an audio equivalent. Adapting those mechanics to be accessible is the real trick here. Cheers! On 5/15/14, Eleanor elea...@7128.com wrote: This is an interesting discussion. I can see that you need to have a balance between popularity and individual preference as both Cara and Dark indicate, and that the game needs to be simple to play, but have depth and complexity to make it a good game. But there another component that I have been looking for and admittedly have not found, and that is an engaging game mechanism. The way in which you play the game has to suck you in and keep you coming back for more. It can't be too simple nor too frustrating. The really fun games increase in difficulty slowly as you progress through the game until you are scrambling to complete a level and are really invested in doing so. Part of the lack of different kinds of games is that it is difficult to find a new mechanism, so many developers fall back on the ones that have worked in the past - thus the sequel games of any game that made a name for itself. Another problem with the story type games is that there is not a good tool for building your interactive story that leads you to different scenes depending on the choices you make. It is hard to do the connections and dependencies by hand in an intricate story with lots of alternatives at each decision point. Oh well, that's why we are interested in doing this - it is a challenge. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
