Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
t;>>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also >>>>> struggled >>>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >>>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >>>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >>>>> >>>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < >>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>>>>> >>>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range >>>>>>> parameter >>>>>>> that needs to be set. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT >>>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and >>>>>>> -28 >>>>>>> rx sens. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger >>>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think >>>>>>>> about >>>>>>>> what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably >>>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear >>>>>>>> that in >>>>>>>> mind too. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- Original Message -- >>>>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in >>>>>>>> cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>>>>> customer. >>>>>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *-- Best regards,Mark* >>>>>>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> *From:*
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Check eBay, alibaba etc. On Feb 15, 2018 11:32 PM, "Jon Langeler" <jon-ispli...@michwave.net> wrote: > Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay > nearly double for the supported version. Point taken on the Ubiquiti > support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support. > > Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with > this kind of setup? Do you need some special software or do you just have > to read it differently? > > Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters? > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > wrote: > >> Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever >> dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. >> >> Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's >> a nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in >> Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. >> >> >> >> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >> com> wrote: >> >>> Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are >>> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential >>> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is >>> it just CLI? >>> >>> -Jason >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE >>>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 >>>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, >>>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying >>>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to >>>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it >>>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not >>>> confidence building. >>>> >>>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less >>>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully >>>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in >>>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled >>>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >>>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >>>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < >>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>>>>> that needs to be set. >>>>>> >>>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT >>>>>> is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and >>>>>> -28 >>>>>> rx sens. >>>>>> >>>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>>>> >>>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger >>>>>>> company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think >>>>>>> about >>>>>>> what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably >>>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar.
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Thanks, and yes, it would be grey market since I'm not willing to pay nearly double for the supported version. Point taken on the Ubiquiti support though, I just figured crap support is better than no support. Going back to the distributed tap design, how does an OTDR behave with this kind of setup? Do you need some special software or do you just have to read it differently? Where are you sourcing your FBT splitters? On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever > dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. > > Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a > nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in > Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. > > > > On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. > com> wrote: > >> Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are >> basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential >> benefit to the Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is >> it just CLI? >> >> -Jason >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> wrote: >> >>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE >>> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 >>> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, >>> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying >>> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to >>> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it >>> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not >>> confidence building. >>> >>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less >>> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully >>> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in >>> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled >>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >>> >>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < >>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>> >>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>>> >>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>>>> that needs to be set. >>>>> >>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 >>>>> rx >>>>> sens. >>>>> >>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>>> >>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>>> >>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably >>>>>> have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that >>>>>> in >>>>>> mind too. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Original Message -- >>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>> >>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON w
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I'm definitely going to look hard at the distributed tap design. Another thing that turned me off from PON was Alphion telling me that interop between different PON vendors was not guaranteed. Realistically, how much trouble have you had cross vendor? If I use ZTE today and decide UBNT is better later, does that mean a forklift? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/15/2018 4:33:52 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We just ring cut the cable at the handholes. Later when a drop comes in to that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a strand. But this is a home run strand back to the cross box where the splitters are located. While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that strand count is one of the more minor expenses. At least of you are having to drill and if you use duct. If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of cats. From:Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Chris, It all depends on scale. Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers. Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline. In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south. Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers. The area I designed for was only 30% built out. Also, this is the exception to the rule. I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc> I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ub
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
The pricing for a ZTE OLT from Baltic is $4-5k. Is that about right? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Feb 15, 2018, at 11:03 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever > dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. > > Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a > nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in > Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. > > > >> On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> wrote: >> Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are basically >> without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the >> Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is it just CLI? >> >> -Jason >> >>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered >>> ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs, >>> and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a >>> media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano >>> would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this >>> told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work >>> using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence >>> building. >>> >>> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than >>> half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load >>> the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the >>> ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled >>> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >>> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >>> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie >>>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>>> >>>>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>>>> that needs to be set. >>>>> >>>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 >>>>> rx sens. >>>>> >>>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>>> >>>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>>> >>>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>>> >>>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >>>>>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>>>>> too. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -- Original Message -- >>>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>>> >>>>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>>>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and >>>>>>> outdoor cabinets. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >>>>>>>
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Without support, yes if you are buying it grey market. But have you ever dealt with ubnt support? Last time I tried they were about useless. Smartolt.com provides a subscription based web gui for the zte OLT. It's a nice system, if you are okay trusting that functionality to some guy in Romania. The CLI is pretty clunky but you can do it that way too. On Feb 15, 2018 10:07 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: > Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are > basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential > benefit to the Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is > it just CLI? > > -Jason > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE >> powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 >> runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, >> with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying >> the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to >> -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it >> would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not >> confidence building. >> >> So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less >> than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully >> load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in >> the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled >> with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a >> horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was >> worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < >> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >> >>> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >>> >>> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>>> that needs to be set. >>>> >>>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >>>> sens. >>>> >>>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>>> >>>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>>> >>>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>>> >>>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>>> >>>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>>> >>>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have >>>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>>>> too. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- Original Message -- >>>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>> >>>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>>>> cabinets. >>>>> >>>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>>> customer. >>>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing >>>>> myself to do PON. >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>> >>>>> Chuck, >>>>> >>>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> *-- Best rega
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Thanks for the information. Others were saying the ZTE units are basically without any support, so I thought that might be a potential benefit to the Ubiquiti gear. What do you use to manage the ZTE gear? Is it just CLI? -Jason On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:37 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE > powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 > runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, > with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying > the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to > -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it > would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not > confidence building. > > So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less > than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully > load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in > the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled > with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a > horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was > worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < > j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: > >> What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? >> >> On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> wrote: >> >>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>> that needs to be set. >>> >>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >>> sens. >>> >>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>> >>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>> >>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>> >>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>> >>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have >>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>>> too. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Original Message -- >>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>>> cabinets. >>>> >>>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per >>>> customer. >>>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself >>>> to do PON. >>>> >>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> Chuck, >>>> >>>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *-- Best regards,Mark* >>>> mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>>> >>>> >>>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>>> >>>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>>> >>>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> Adam, >>>> >>>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >>&
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
The main reason we were initially drawn to ubnt was the outdoor POE powered ONU. This would let us re-use a lot of wireless installs with cat5 runs, and it is also how we had previously been doing our activeE FTTH, with a media converter in the NID. Ubnt initially released a spec saying the Nano would be rated for -40C. After resting they revised this to -10C... this told me they didn't design properly and were just hoping it would work using commercial rated parts, like most of their radios do. Not confidence building. So, if the ONU has to be indoor anyway, the comporable ZTE ONU is less than half the cost of the ubnt. The OLT is also much cheaper if you fully load the OLT. The ZTE is also a mature product with features like VOIP in the ONUs, Multicast IPTV support was another big one for us. Also struggled with getting the UNMS installed and working properly, and ubnt has a horrible track record for maintaining their management tools so it was worrysome to rely on a beta version of their new management platform. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 5:48 PM, Jason McKemie < j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: > What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? > > On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >> that needs to be set. >> >> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >> sens. >> >> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >> >> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >> >> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> That's also a compelling point. >>> >>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>> >>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>> >>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>> too. >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>> cabinets. >>> >>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself >>> to do PON. >>> >>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>> >>> >>> >>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>> >>> >>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >>> >>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>> >>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>> *To:* Adam Moffett >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Adam, >>> >>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >>> exceed 20Km." >>> >>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>> >>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into >>> the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 >>> count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles >>> depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter >>> to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light >>> budget. >>> >>> We build to the lots passed, so
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
What were the factors in choosing ZTE over Ubiquiti? On Wednesday, February 14, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max > difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter > that needs to be set. > > We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is > about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx > sens. > > I've been very impressed with the optical performance. > > We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE > > On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> That's also a compelling point. >> >> It's not a simple question for sure. >> >> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >> >> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >> too. >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >> cabinets. >> >> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself >> to do PON. >> >> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Chuck, >> >> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >> >> >> >> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> >> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >> >> >> >> >> >> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >> >> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >> >> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >> *To:* Adam Moffett >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Adam, >> >> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >> exceed 20Km." >> >> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >> >> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the >> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count >> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on >> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons >> 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. >> >> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage >> per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> >> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >> >> >> >> >> >> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* >> >> Maybe I need to review the math. >> >> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't >> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber >> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> >> Adam, >> >> How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. >> Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? >> >> >> >> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> >> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >> >> >> >> >> >> *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:*
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We just ring cut the cable at the handholes. Later when a drop comes in to that handhole we just open the case and splice the drop to a strand. But this is a home run strand back to the cross box where the splitters are located. While I like 12 count prices, the cost of construction is such that strand count is one of the more minor expenses. At least of you are having to drill and if you use duct. If you can plow everything direct burial, that is a different bucket of cats. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 11:41 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Chris, It all depends on scale. Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers. Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline. In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south. Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers. The area I designed for was only 30% built out. Also, this is the exception to the rule. I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase ou
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
12” Depth: 15” Depth: 18” Depth: So you get the middle size for $82. Seems a bit tight to me, if you have a 144 strand splice in a 21 inch splice case and 50 feet of slack. I wonder what the 18” will cost. I may try this and the round one. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 1:52 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob. On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: A splice case and slack will fit OK? Which size do you get for the $82? From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier that stocks them. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Could you give me a source for your handholes? I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We get 17x30x15. Tyco B size will fit but it's tight. A is no prob. On Feb 15, 2018 2:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > A splice case and slack will fit OK? > Which size do you get for the $82? > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/ > 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf > > Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local > supplier that stocks them. > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> Could you give me a source for your handholes? >> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel >> lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. >> >> *From:* Chris Fabien >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly >> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see >> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not >> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer >> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. >> >> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping >> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I >> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when >> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. >> >> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count >> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a >> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some >> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing >> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very >> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with >> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave >> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or >> there as houses are built and what not. >> >> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much >> the same. >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a >>> large expense. >>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my >>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them. >>> >>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>> that needs to be set. >>> >>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >>> sens. >>> >>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>> >>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>> >>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>> >>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>> >>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have >>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>>> too. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Original Message -- >>>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>>> To: af@afmug.com >>>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> >>>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>>> cabinets. >>>> >>>> Wh
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Nice thing about HDPE is that you can brand your name into the lids with an electric branding iron. From: Jason McKemie Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT I've been using these: https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf About $70 with extension. I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller. -Jason Virus-free. www.avast.com On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: A splice case and slack will fit OK? Which size do you get for the $82? From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier that stocks them. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Could you give me a source for your handholes? I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion spl
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
So, with extension they are 24” deep? If you put a coil at the bottom and lean the splice case in at a slant it ought to work just fine. What size of splice cases have you put in these? From: Jason McKemie Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:53 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT I've been using these: https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf About $70 with extension. I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller. -Jason Virus-free. www.avast.com On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: A splice case and slack will fit OK? Which size do you get for the $82? From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier that stocks them. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Could you give me a source for your handholes? I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoo
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I've been using these: https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_2200.pdf About $70 with extension. I prefer the round handholes - probably a bit stronger from a crushing standpoint as well, since the lid is much smaller. -Jason <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=icon> Virus-free. www.avast.com <https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=webmail_term=link> <#DAB4FAD8-2DD7-40BB-A1B8-4E2AA1F9FDF2> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:33 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > A splice case and slack will fit OK? > Which size do you get for the $82? > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/ > 05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf > > Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local > supplier that stocks them. > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> Could you give me a source for your handholes? >> I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel >> lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. >> >> *From:* Chris Fabien >> *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly >> HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see >> heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not >> perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer >> concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. >> >> This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping >> architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I >> wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when >> we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. >> >> Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count >> main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a >> viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some >> handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing >> to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very >> well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with >> it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave >> some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or >> there as houses are built and what not. >> >> Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much >> the same. >> >> Chris >> >> >> On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a >>> large expense. >>> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my >>> idea already exists I would rather just buy them. >>> >>> *From:* Chris Fabien >>> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >>> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >>> that needs to be set. >>> >>> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >>> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >>> sens. >>> >>> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >>> >>> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That's also a compelling point. >>>> >>>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>>> >>>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>>> >>>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have >>>> a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>>> too. >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Or
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
A splice case and slack will fit OK? Which size do you get for the $82? From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 12:04 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier that stocks them. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: Could you give me a source for your handholes? I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
https://oldcastleenclosures.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/WA-Carson_1730.pdf Cheked our last order, $82 with the lid bolts. Milennium is our local supplier that stocks them. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:14 PM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > Could you give me a source for your handholes? > I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel > lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly > HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see > heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not > perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer > concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. > > This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping > architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I > wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when > we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. > > Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count > main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a > viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some > handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing > to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very > well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with > it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave > some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or > there as houses are built and what not. > > Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much > the same. > > Chris > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a >> large expense. >> I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea >> already exists I would rather just buy them. >> >> *From:* Chris Fabien >> *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max >> difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter >> that needs to be set. >> >> We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is >> about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx >> sens. >> >> I've been very impressed with the optical performance. >> >> We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE >> >> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> That's also a compelling point. >>> >>> It's not a simple question for sure. >>> >>> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >>> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >>> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >>> >>> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >>> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >>> too. >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> >>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>> cabinets. >>> >>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself >>> to do PON. >>> >>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>> >>> >>> >>> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>> >>> >>> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >>> >>> >>> >>&
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, Once again not saying it is right or wrong. All depends on your requirements. Just wanted to throw out another design option for people to look at. One of the nice things about GPON is the way one can get very creative with the splits. I have looked at the tap option before, actually have a few weighted 1x2 splitters here in the office. In my case every time I think about using them, I usually end up using a different design. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 1:41:18 PM, you wrote: Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Chris, It all depends on scale. Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers. Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline. In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south. Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers. The area I designed for was only 30% built out. Also, this is the exception to the rule. I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too.
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Mark, In our area, limited new house construction. So, we design our plant to serve existing houses. You of course have the option of putting in all the taps you might need now, rather than cutting them in later. We usually end up with at least one drop coming back to maybe 80% of the handholes. I have not yet, one year in using this method, had to cut service to install a new tap. If you are good at splicing it "should" be only a couple minutes of downtime. I'm never claiming it's the right choice for everyone, or right choice for everywhere in your network. I just know it lets me go many miles and a 200-300 homes served on a 12 count mainline that costs me <20 cents a foot. I think that's pretty awesome, and it's almost never even discussed as an option by most FTTH people. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 1:04 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com > wrote: > Chris, > > It all depends on scale. Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could > never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers. > Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap > offline. In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south. Taps would > be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not > worry about new customers. The area I designed for was only 30% built > out. Also, this is the exception to the rule. I would NEVER advise people > to build their whole network like this. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > <m...@mailmt.com> > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: * > > Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly > HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see > heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not > perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer > concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. > > This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping > architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I > wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when > we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. > > Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count > main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a > viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some > handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing > to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very > well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with > it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave > some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or > there as houses are built and what not. > > Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much > the same. > > Chris > > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a > large expense. > I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea > already exists I would rather just buy them. > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max > difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter > that needs to be set. > > We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is > about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx > sens. > > I've been very impressed with the optical performance. > > We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE > > On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > That's also a compelling point. > > It's not a simple question for sure. > > The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company > wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what > THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. > > Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a > bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind > too. > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > When doing full throttle C
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
On 2/15/18 10:11 AM, ch...@wbmfg.com wrote: And the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t pay their bill because of that... Of course more often than not the people that "lose money" if their internet goes down are always the people that pick the cheapest service level.
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Could you give me a source for your handholes? I took 36” HDPE culvert and and cut it into 24” slices and made steel lids. But I have more than $75 into just the culvert piece alone. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:53 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd the customer that lost $50K in day trading can’t pay their bill because of that... From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 10:50 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line. Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to Drop(1-4). Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9. Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8). At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for customers. Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those fibers can be split another 2 times. After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8). Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4. That gives you 32 splits. Repeat the whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots. Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases. The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction. The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a customer online. So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer. Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole. However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes. Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as transport again if needed down the road. This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first. But there are a couple benefits. First, I know my loss exactly everywhere. It won't change as customers are added. Second, when customers are added, there should be no interruption of service to existing customers. I could never figure out how to do that with the taps. Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on. Light comes in from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south. Now lets say someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2. You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the downstream guys. Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line. Murphy's law states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM To: Chris Fabien Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a d
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, It all depends on scale. Not saying taps won't work, just saying I could never figure out a good way of scaling them beyond maybe 12-16 customers. Always was afraid to deal with having to take everyone south of the new tap offline. In the scheme I just posted, everything flows south. Taps would be great in a static environment where you can install them once and not worry about new customers. The area I designed for was only 30% built out. Also, this is the exception to the rule. I would NEVER advise people to build their whole network like this. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:53:12 PM, you wrote: Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 wil
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Thanks for the information Mark, might have to sketch this out to fully wrap my head around it though :) On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: > Chuck, > > > Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line. Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter > to Drop(1-4). Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9. > Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8). At this point Drop fibers 5-8 > are hot for customers. Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being > each of those fibers can be split another 2 times. After 8 lots, splice > Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8). Go another 8 lots. > Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4. That gives you 32 splits. Repeat the > whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 > lots. Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice > cases. The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction. The 1x2 > are only spliced in when putting a customer online. So, if a second > customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer. Based > on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole. > However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop > up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as > transport between handholes. Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as > transport again if needed down the road. > > This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first. But there are a > couple benefits. First, I know my loss exactly everywhere. It won't > change as customers are added. Second, when customers are added, there > should be no interruption of service to existing customers. I could never > figure out how to do that with the taps. Lets say you have a road running > north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on. Light comes in > from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south. Now lets say > someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2. You now have to figure > out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the > downstream guys. Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, > existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line. Murphy's law states as soon > as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or > B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > <m...@mailmt.com> > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: * > > I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of > this example. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM > *To:* Chris Fabien > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chris, > > You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing > service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a > bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we > wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the > future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to > design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: * > > You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few > handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about > 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are > starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up > a spreadsheet and play with it. > > On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 > splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? > > Class B or class C optics? > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have > long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile > too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that on
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Chuck, I would love to hear your lower cost idea. Right now we use mainly HDPE handholes, not load rated, and place them so it's unlikely to see heavy traffic. We have had one crushed so far by a tractor, so its not perfect (but the fiber was OKAY). But they are $75ea vs $200 for a polymer concrete, worth having to replace one or two a year. This video I only recently found, but it explains this tapping architecture very well. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k78dC2z1mWc I wish I had seen this video 5 years ago. It seemed a lot more "wierd" when we were suggested the idea by another fiber upstart guy. Mark, I've done lots of drawings of distributed splits inside a 12-count main and folding legs back along the mainline and what not. Certainly a viable approach. I think it is overly complicated, especially when at some handholes you are splicing drops to go north and at some you are splicing to go south and what not. I think the tapped trunk layout is working very well for us in our area, certainly has some compromises but I'm happy with it. You do have to have the loss values worked out upfront. If you leave some extra margin you can tolerate cutting in an extra splitter here or there as houses are built and what not. Chuck, its very much same idea as Coax taps in CATV, the math pretty much the same. Chris On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:44 AM, <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a > large expense. > I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea > already exists I would rather just buy them. > > *From:* Chris Fabien > *Sent:* Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max > difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter > that needs to be set. > > We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is > about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx > sens. > > I've been very impressed with the optical performance. > > We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE > > On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> That's also a compelling point. >> >> It's not a simple question for sure. >> >> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company >> wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what >> THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >> >> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind >> too. >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> >> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >> cabinets. >> >> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself >> to do PON. >> >> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Chuck, >> >> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >> >> >> >> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> >> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com >> >> >> >> >> >> *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* >> >> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >> >> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >> *To:* Adam Moffett >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Adam, >> >> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >> exceed 20Km." >> >> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >> >> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the >> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count >> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on >> density or distance, we will splice in a
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Fiber A & B are fibers on the main line. Splice Fiber A to 1x4 splitter to Drop(1-4). Take Fiber B from main line and splice to drop Fiber 9. Splice Drop 1 to 1x4 splitter to Drop(5-8). At this point Drop fibers 5-8 are hot for customers. Proceed down the road till you pass 8 lots being each of those fibers can be split another 2 times. After 8 lots, splice Drop 2 to another 1x4 splitter and reuse Drop (5-8). Go another 8 lots. Rinse and repeat using Drops 3 & 4. That gives you 32 splits. Repeat the whole process again using fiber 9 and reusing 1-8 as before for another 32 lots. Using 12 fiber drop also allows us to use cheap coyote splice cases. The 1x4 splitters are all spliced in during construction. The 1x2 are only spliced in when putting a customer online. So, if a second customer come in later we don't have to disturb the first customer. Based on this scheme I expect an even amount of customers in each handhole. However, if for some reason I had an odd number and needed that extra drop up or down the road, I would just splice it in to 10-12 on the drop as transport between handholes. Remember I can always reuse 10-12 as transport again if needed down the road. This seems a bit more complicated than the taps at first. But there are a couple benefits. First, I know my loss exactly everywhere. It won't change as customers are added. Second, when customers are added, there should be no interruption of service to existing customers. I could never figure out how to do that with the taps. Lets say you have a road running north/south with 10 customers that you have used taps on. Light comes in from the north and you have customers 1-10 heading south. Now lets say someone builds a house between customer 1 and 2. You now have to figure out what weight of a tap you can put in and how it will effect the downstream guys. Also, while you are splicing in the new customer, existing customers 2-10 are kicked off line. Murphy's law states as soon as you cut that fiber to put the tap in, A: The splicer battery will die or B: a downstream customer will loss $50k in day trading. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 12:02:30 PM, you wrote: I know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM To: Chris Fabien Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name o
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTI know I would be interested in seeing a simple line drawing schematic of this example. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 9:22 AM To: Chris Fabien Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a custom
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Mark - You're just using standard splitters? On Thursday, February 15, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: > Chris, > > You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing > service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a > bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we > wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the > future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to > design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > <m...@mailmt.com> > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: * > > You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few > handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about > 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are > starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up > a spreadsheet and play with it. > > On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 > splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? > > Class B or class C optics? > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have > long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile > too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON > wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON > techs. > > Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" > PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. > > We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole > with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the > cabinet. > > On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got > 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. > > I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't > remember the name of can be uneven. > In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and > the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> > Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I > misunderstanding you? > > On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with > Ubiquiti's offering... > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that > splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and > 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be > tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I > can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline > and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. > > On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote: > > Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been > considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, > seems like a nightmare. > > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan > ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. > The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went > with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router > that solves the problem. > > Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway > when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC > wifi
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, You can do very creative things with splitters. I just finished designing service to 64 lots down a 4.5 mile dirt road. We didn't want to spend a bunch of money being there are only about 20 built house right now, but we wanted to make sure we were able to get everyone as they build in the future. Using a combination of 1x4 and 1x2 splitters, we were able to design this on a 12 fiber drop cable. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Thursday, February 15, 2018, 7:26:46 AM, you wrote: You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to t
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Just like tap loss on CATV if you have ever done one of those. Taps closer to the amp have less insertion loss than taps further down the road. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2018 5:26 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA560
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIn the olden days, 20km restriction was related to timing delay. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:23 PM To: Chris Fabien Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, I think the 60km max reach and 20km ONU restriction is part of the GPON standard and all manufacturers should have it. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote: Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:3
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
What are you using for handholes? Full traffic rated handholes are a large expense. I am working on a lower cost idea, but if something equivalent to my idea already exists I would rather just buy them. From: Chris Fabien Sent: Wednesday, February 14, 2018 9:01 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. A
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
They have a couple different options to achieve this, but they are much more expensive than just putting the bare splitters in whatever splice tray/closure they prefer. On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 10:09 AM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with > their MST/DLX options. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few >> handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about >> 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are >> starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up >> a spreadsheet and play with it. >> >> On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 >>> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? >>> >>> Class B or class C optics? >>> >>> >>> ------ Original Message -- >>> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>> To: af@afmug.com >>> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have >>> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile >>> too. >>> >>> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made >>> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They >>> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON >>> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON >>> techs. >>> >>> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second >>> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. >>> >>> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so >>> handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from >>> the cabinet. >>> >>> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's >>>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >>>> >>>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >>>> remember the name of can be uneven. >>>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", >>>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >>>> >>>> >>>> -- Original Message -- >>>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >>>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >>>> misunderstanding you? >>>> >>>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff >>>> with Ubiquiti's offering... >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at >>>>> that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 >>>>> and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can >>>>> be >>>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>>>> >>>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" < >>>>> j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>>>> seems like a nightmare. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>&
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
How much margin above sensitivity should be targeted? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Feb 14, 2018, at 11:01 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference > of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to > be set. > > We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about > +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. > > I've been very impressed with the optical performance. > > We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE > >> On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> That's also a compelling point. >> >> It's not a simple question for sure. >> >> The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted >> to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will >> prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. >> >> Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a >> bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >>> When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe >>> electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor >>> cabinets. >>> >>> When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. >>> For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to >>> do PON. >>> >>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM >>> To: Chuck McCown >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com >>> >>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>> www.MyakkaTech.com >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? >>> >>> From: Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM >>> To: Adam Moffett >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Adam, >>> >>> There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement >>> when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot >>> exceed 20Km." >>> >>> The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long >>> stretches of roads between neighborhoods. >>> >>> We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the >>> last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count >>> cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on >>> density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons >>> 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. >>> >>> We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per >>> port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Best regards, >>> Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com >>> >>> Myakka Technologies, Inc. >>> www.MyakkaTech.com >>> >>> -- >>> >>> Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: >>> >>> >>> Maybe I need to review the math. >>> >>> I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't >>> compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber >>> back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> >>> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> >>> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> >>> Adam, >>> >>> How far are yo
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I think it's Commscope (TE) that also has a solution that is for FBT with their MST/DLX options. Regards, Chuck On Thu, Feb 15, 2018 at 7:26 AM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few > handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about > 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are > starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up > a spreadsheet and play with it. > > On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 >> splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? >> >> Class B or class C optics? >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >> To: af@afmug.com >> Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have >> long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile >> too. >> >> The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made >> in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They >> are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON >> wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON >> techs. >> >> Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second >> "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. >> >> We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole >> with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the >> cabinet. >> >> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >>> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's >>> got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >>> >>> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >>> remember the name of can be uneven. >>> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", >>> and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >>> >>> >>> -- Original Message -- >>> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >>> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >>> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >>> misunderstanding you? >>> >>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with >>> Ubiquiti's offering... >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>> >>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >>>> com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>>> seems like a nightmare. >>>> >>>> >>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another >>>>> Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is >>>>> accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU >>>>> we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a >>>>> different >>>>> router that solves the problem. >>>>> >>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>>>
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
You have to change the splitter value as you go down the road. First few handhole might be a 5% the step to 10% Etc. I can usually run out about 12-15 handhole with various mix of mostly 2 and 4 cust per HH, if you are starting further from the cabinet, that hurts a bit of course. Just set up a spreadsheet and play with it. On Feb 15, 2018 5:13 AM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 > splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? > > Class B or class C optics? > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have > long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile > too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON > wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON > techs. > > Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" > PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. > > We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole > with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the > cabinet. > > On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > >> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got >> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >> >> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >> remember the name of can be uneven. >> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and >> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >> misunderstanding you? >> >> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with >> Ubiquiti's offering... >> >> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >> >>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>> >>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >>> com> wrote: >>> >>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>> seems like a nightmare. >>> >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>> >>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan >>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. >>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went >>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router >>>> that solves the problem. >>>> >>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>>> wifi and voip. >>>> >>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a >>>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> Chuck, >>>>> >>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>>>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
There's insertion loss at each splitter too. How may of the 10/90 splitters can you put inline before you get too low on light? Class B or class C optics? -- Original Message -- From: "Chris Fabien" <ch...@lakenetmi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/14/2018 10:50:41 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx <https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx> Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From:Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html <http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethern
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Nice planning. How are you calculating your ratios and such? FS supplying the splitter? Jon Langeler Michwave Technologies, Inc. > On Feb 14, 2018, at 10:50 PM, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > > Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long > linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. > > The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in > any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are > common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, > but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. > > Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" > PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. > > We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole > with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. > >> On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: >> Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got >> 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. >> >> I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't >> remember the name of can be uneven. >> In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and >> the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". >> >> >> -- Original Message -- >> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> >> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM >> Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >>> Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I >>> misunderstanding you? >>> >>> On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with >>> Ubiquiti's offering... >>> >>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>>> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >>>> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >>>> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >>>> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >>>> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >>>> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >>>> >>>> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" >>>> <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: >>>> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >>>> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >>>> seems like a nightmare. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >>>>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan >>>>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. >>>>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went >>>>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different >>>>> router that solves the problem. >>>>> >>>>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>>>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>>>> wifi and voip. >>>>> >>>>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot >>>>> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Chuck, >>>>>> >>>>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several >>>>>> other operators using the same setup now too. >>>>>> >>>>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>>>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>>>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chris, I think the 60km max reach and 20km ONU restriction is part of the GPON standard and all manufacturers should have it. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Wednesday, February 14, 2018, 11:01:24 PM, you wrote: Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Regarding the distance, our ZTE will support up to 60 km, but max difference of 20km between ONU on one PON. There's just a range parameter that needs to be set. We ordered C+ optics and see a real optical budget of 33dB. The OLT is about +5.5 tx and -34 min rx sensitivity. The ONU about + 0.5 tx and -28 rx sens. I've been very impressed with the optical performance. We did test the ubnt as well. Went with ZTE On Feb 12, 2018 1:23 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > That's also a compelling point. > > It's not a simple question for sure. > > The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company > wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what > THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. > > Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a > bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind > too. > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe > electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor > cabinets. > > When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. > For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to > do PON. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* > > Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM > *To:* Adam Moffett > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Adam, > > There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement > when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot > exceed 20Km." > > The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long > stretches of roads between neighborhoods. > > We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the > last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count > cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on > density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons > 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. > > We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage > per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. > > > > > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote:* > > Maybe I need to review the math. > > I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't > compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber > back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> > To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> > Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > > Adam, > > How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. > Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote:* > > I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking > at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line > down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then > I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses > per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. > > Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't > seeming to work out for me. > > I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON > some day if I want to. > > We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the pas
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Yes, i think its a beautiful fit for lower density rural where you have long linear roads. We do have some areas with 5 or less houses per mile too. The first splitter is a 1x2 FBT (fused biconal taper) those can be made in any split ratio I think they vary the angle that the fibers meet. They are common offered in "windowed" version that only pass typical GPON wavelengths, but we custom ordered full bandwidth ones for future 10G PON techs. Then the output of that FBT can go right to a drop or to a second "normal" PLC splitter to serve multiple drops. We did about 12 miles with this method this year, maybe 80 or so handhole with this splitter method, end of the run is about 10 miles from the cabinet. On Feb 14, 2018 8:26 PM, "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got > 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. > > I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't > remember the name of can be uneven. > In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and > the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> > Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I > misunderstanding you? > > On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with > Ubiquiti's offering... > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that >> splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and >> 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be >> tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I >> can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline >> and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. >> >> On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mckemie@veloxinetbroadband. >> com> wrote: >> >> Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been >> considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, >> seems like a nightmare. >> >> >> On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: >> >>> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan >>> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. >>> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went >>> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router >>> that solves the problem. >>> >>> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >>> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >>> wifi and voip. >>> >>> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a >>> lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >>> >>> >>> >>> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >>> >>>> Chuck, >>>> >>>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >>>> >>>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>>> >>>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >>>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >>>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >>>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >>>> >>>> Gerard >>>> >>>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>>> >>>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>>>> >>>>> You are using this now? >>>>> >>>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>>> >>&
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Yup that's a thing. That was actually my plan "A", except where he's got 30-40 houses in 2 miles I've got 5-10. I think PLC splitters are always even, and the other type which I can't remember the name of can be uneven. In coax they call that a "tap", but in fiber it's called a "coupler", and the thing everybody is calling a coupler is a "mating sleeve". -- Original Message -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: "af@afmug.com" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/14/2018 7:24:29 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com <mailto:j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com>> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx <https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx> Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From:Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html <http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html <http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 <http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html <https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html> 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html <https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html <https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Interesting, so you have splitters that divide light unevenly? Or am I misunderstanding you? On another note, I wonder if anyone has compared the ZTE GPON stuff with Ubiquiti's offering... On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that > splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and > 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be > tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I > can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline > and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. > > On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > wrote: > > Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been > considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, > seems like a nightmare. > > > On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > >> With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan >> ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. >> The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went >> with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router >> that solves the problem. >> >> Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway >> when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC >> wifi and voip. >> >> We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot >> of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. >> >> >> >> On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: >> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >>> several other operators using the same setup now too. >>> >>> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality >>> made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >>> >>> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >>> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >>> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >>> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >>> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >>> >>> Gerard >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>>> >>>> You are using this now? >>>> >>>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>>> >>>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>>> >>>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >>>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >>>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connec >>>> tor_0391 >>>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS >>>> https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html >>>> 20M $7.66 >>>> 10M $5.66 >>>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>>> >>>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>>> >>>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html >>>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 >>>> https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html >>>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>>> >>>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a >>>> few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>>> >>>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >>>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We splice in a uneven ratio 1x2 feeding a 1xN PLC to fees drops at that splice point. So it might look like a 10/90 with the 10% into the 1x4 and 90% continuing down the road on the same strand. Troubleshooting can be tricky, we test light as we splice to verify everything. The benefit is I can pass 2 miles of road, 30-40 houses using one strand on a 12ct mainline and still have 11 unused strands at the end to keep going. On Feb 13, 2018 4:01 PM, "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> wrote: Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan > ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. > The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went > with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router > that solves the problem. > > Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway > when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC > wifi and voip. > > We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot > of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. > > > > On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > >> Chuck, >> >> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >> several other operators using the same setup now too. >> >> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made >> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >> >> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >> >> Gerard >> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>> >>> You are using this now? >>> >>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>> >>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 >>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20 >>> 745.html >>> 20M $7.66 >>> 10M $5.66 >>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>> >>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>> >>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html >>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >>> 528.html >>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>> >>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few >>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>> >>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS >>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per >>> port. >>> >>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU >>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >>> >>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to >>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >>>
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Tapped trunk, meaning you use 1x2 splitters at each drop? I've been considering doing this, but troubleshooting, should any problem(s) arise, seems like a nightmare. On Tuesday, February 13, 2018, Chris Fabien <ch...@lakenetmi.com> wrote: > With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan > ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. > The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went > with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router > that solves the problem. > > Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway > when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC > wifi and voip. > > We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot > of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. > > > > On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > >> Chuck, >> >> Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of >> several other operators using the same setup now too. >> >> It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made >> unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. >> >> You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 >> shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to >> this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/produc >> t-detail/Original-Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_604425626 >> 81.html?spm=a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx >> >> Gerard >> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >>> >>> You are using this now? >>> >>> *From:* Gerard Dupont >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >>> *To:* af@afmug.com >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >>> >>> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >>> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >>> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >>> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >>> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >>> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >>> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 >>> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20 >>> 745.html >>> 20M $7.66 >>> 10M $5.66 >>> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >>> >>> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >>> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >>> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >>> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >>> >>> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html >>> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >>> 528.html >>> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >>> >>> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few >>> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >>> >>> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >>> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS >>> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per >>> port. >>> >>> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU >>> management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >>> >>> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >>> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to >>> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >>> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >>> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. >>> >>> Gerard >>> >>> >>> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >>> >>>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >>>> ONT $ 215.00 >>>> Unicam $ 15.00 >>>> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >>>> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >>>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
With some very appreciated help from Gerard myself and another Michigan ISP have deployed this ZTE equipment and Gerards description is accurate. The only issue we have found is some Wi-Fi bugs in the F660 ONU we went with, if you require a customer owned router or provide a different router that solves the problem. Our long term plan for that is to switch to a SmartRG GPON res gateway when they are available in a couple months. All in one unit with 4x4 AC wifi and voip. We also deployed a tapped trunk splitting layout which has saved us a lot of money on strand count in our low density rural areas. On Feb 12, 2018 5:58 PM, "Gerard Dupont" <ger...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > Chuck, > > Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of > several other operators using the same setup now too. > > It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made > unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. > > You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. > I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei > version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original-Huawei- > MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm=a2700. > 7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx > > Gerard > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. >> >> You are using this now? >> >> *From:* Gerard Dupont >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. >> >> ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon >> -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu- >> with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html >> ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o >> riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port >> -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html >> Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 >> 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20 >> 745.html >> 20M $7.66 >> 10M $5.66 >> Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) >> >> ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 >> $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. >> Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 >> customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. >> >> 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html >> 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11 >> 528.html >> 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 >> >> None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few >> hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. >> >> Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per >> customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS >> + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per >> port. >> >> You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring >> (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) >> >> I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always >> overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to >> upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to >> combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different >> wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. >> >> Gerard >> >> >> On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: >> >>> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >>> ONT $ 215.00 >>> Unicam $ 15.00 >>> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >>> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >>> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * >>> >>> OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 >>> OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 >>> Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 >>> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * >>> >>> >>> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * >>> >>> >>> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >>> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM >>> *To:* Chuck McCown >>> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> Chuck, >>> >>> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Gerard, Not going to argue about that. But there were several factors on our zhone equipment decision. The main factor was when we started several years ago, those super cheap options didn't exist. Not to mention we didn't have time to experiment. A secondary factor was their location. The have a manufacturing plant about an hour away from us. To be 100% honest, we didn't know what the hell we were getting ourselves into when we started. The security blanket of having zhone engineers that close to us to help us with any issues was very appealing. We never have had to have an engineer come by, but I have used the phone support many of times. Sometimes it was their issue, other mine. But either way it was usually fixed within a day. I'm to the point now, I just want crap to work. If it doesn't work I want some guidance on how to make it work. I'm getting lazy in my old age. If I was 15 years younger and just starting out, I think I would give the ZTE stuff a try. But we are all in on zhone, it works very well and I get the support I need to make me less grumpy over time. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 6:22:35 PM, you wrote: Mark, I'm willing to bet that ZTE or Huawei has more installed units than Zhone does by several orders of magnitude. Plus with the prices so cheap you can afford to have spares of everything. Chuck, I didn't see your detailed numbers for the AE deployment. What equipment are you using for that? Don't forget about space/power/cooling requirements for AE. This C320 shelf only sips about 100 watts with 7-8 olt ports enabled. On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: It is $65 vs my $100 for AE. So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE. And AE is much simpler. Arguably better too. There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that region of diminishing returns. Perhaps in a year I may change my mind. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, But do you really need to get the cost down that low? I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB. But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From: Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 C
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Mark, I'm willing to bet that ZTE or Huawei has more installed units than Zhone does by several orders of magnitude. Plus with the prices so cheap you can afford to have spares of everything. Chuck, I didn't see your detailed numbers for the AE deployment. What equipment are you using for that? Don't forget about space/power/cooling requirements for AE. This C320 shelf only sips about 100 watts with 7-8 olt ports enabled. On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 6:08 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > It is $65 vs my $100 for AE. > > So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE. > And AE is much simpler. > Arguably better too. > > There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into > that region of diminishing returns. > > Perhaps in a year I may change my mind. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > But do you really need to get the cost down that low? I will admit and > most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB. But, > there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to > sleep better at night. > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote:* > > That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. > > You are using this now? > > *From:* Gerard Dupont > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. > > ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte- > gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto- > gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html > ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc- > original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice- > port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html > Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 > 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/ > 20745.html > 20M $7.66 > 10M $5.66 > Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) > > ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 > $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. > Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 > customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. > > 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html > 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/ > 11528.html > 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 > > None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few > hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. > > Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per > customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS > + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per > port. > > You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring > (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) > > I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always > overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to > upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to > combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different > wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. > > Gerard > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > > ONT Housing (Clam Shell) > $ 29.00 > ONT > $ 215.00 > Unicam > $ 15.00 > Cyber Power > $ 81.00 > Cyber Install > $ 110.00 > House Sub Total > *$ 450.00 * > OLT $11K/8/32 > $ 42.97 > OIM $845/32 > $ 38.27 > Splitter $900/32 > $ 39.43 > DLC per Sub Subtotal > *$ 120.67 * > Electronics/Sub Total Expense > *$ 570.67 * > > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a > 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. > > > So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per > user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for > electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, > we are o
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTIt is $65 vs my $100 for AE. So I have to spend $35 more. But I get AE. And AE is much simpler. Arguably better too. There is so much cost in construction saving $35/customer is getting into that region of diminishing returns. Perhaps in a year I may change my mind. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 3:58 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, But do you really need to get the cost down that low? I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB. But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From: Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best r
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Chuck, Yeah, We have 6 OLT's and a few hundred ONU's online. I know of several other operators using the same setup now too. It's stable and just works. The OLT hardware feels solid and quality made unlike some of the other 1U OLT's we've tried. You can even get an outdoor cabinet made for them for about $1500 shipped. I can't find the ZTE link right now, but it is very similar to this Huawei version. https://www.alibaba.com/product-detail/Original- Huawei-MA5608T-ZTE-C320-Outdoors_60442562681.html?spm= a2700.7724838.2017115.1.2d7a50d9frcsQx Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 4:51 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. > > You are using this now? > > *From:* Gerard Dupont > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. > > ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon > -terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon- > onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html > ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-o > riginal-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port > -wifienglish-interface_p1206.html > Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 > 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/ > 20745.html > 20M $7.66 > 10M $5.66 > Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) > > ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 > $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. > Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 > customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. > > 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html > 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/ > 11528.html > 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 > > None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few > hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. > > Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per > customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS > + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per > port. > > You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring > (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) > > I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always > overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to > upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to > combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different > wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. > > Gerard > > > On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 >> ONT $ 215.00 >> Unicam $ 15.00 >> Cyber Power $ 81.00 >> Cyber Install $ 110.00 >> House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * >> >> OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 >> OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 >> Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 >> DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * >> >> >> Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * >> >> >> *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies >> *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM >> *To:* Chuck McCown >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> Chuck, >> >> Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and >> a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. >> >> >> So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per >> user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for >> electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, >> we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we >> are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure >> Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any >> type of major upgrade for several years. >> >> But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to >> make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not >> to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 >> customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. >> >> >> >> *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com >> >> >> *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, But do you really need to get the cost down that low? I will admit and most people on this list that know me will agree, I'm a cheap SOB. But, there is a point where it is worth paying a bit more up front in order to sleep better at night. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 4:51:32 PM, you wrote: That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From: Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
That is some scary Bernie Madoff type of pricing. You are using this now? From: Gerard Dupont Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 2:28 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte-gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto-gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc-original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice-port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subje
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Here's some pricing based on Chinese ZTE with no real support. ZTE F601 Indoor ONU 1 GE port. $24 http://sweetplaza.com/zte- gpon-terminal-ont-zxa10-f601-or-zxhn-f601-ftth-or-ftto- gpon-onu-with-one-ethernet-port-smaller-size_p1013.html ZTE F623 Indoor ONU 1GE 3FE 1POTS $29 http://sweetplaza.com/sc-apc- original-zte-zxhn-f623-gpon-onu-1ge-3fe-lan-ports-1voice- port-wifienglish-interface_p1206.html Chinese Splice on connector $0.80 http://sweetplaza.com/c/connector_0391 30M Armored simplex pigtail $9.66 from FS https://www.fs.com/ products/20745.html 20M $7.66 10M $5.66 Wall Mount MultiLink/Tii Outdoor NID - $15 (I don't have link) ZTE C320 OLT 16 ports of gpon with class c+ optics. $2200 $2200/16/32=$4.30/per customer at 100% utilization.. Add another 16 ports with optics for only $590. that's 32*32=1024 customers potentially. $2.75/per customer at 100% util. 32 port rackmount splitter. $84 https://www.fs.com/products/11948.html 32 port bare splitter for splice case $14 https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html 8 port bare splitter for splice case $5 None of that includes shipping or import duties/fees. So figure in a few hundred $$$ for shipping/import fees. Even if you only put 8 people per OLT port that's $2800/32/8=$11 per customer. + $1 per port on a 1x8 PLC + $15 for NID + $29 for ONT with POTS + $10 for 30M pigtail. = ~$65/customer all in for gpon with 8 customers per port. You can use www.SmartOLT.com for web based OLT/ONU management/monitoring (tell Adrian I sent you for a discount) I prefer using GPON for the management capabilities. You can always overlay 10GPON on top of your regular GPON network when the time comes to upgrade. Just add/change the card in the OLT and add a 2x1 splitter to combine both OLT ports into the single fiber. Since they use different wavelengths they will coexist over the same fiber. Just install new ONT's. Gerard On Mon, Feb 12, 2018 at 2:32 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 > ONT $ 215.00 > Unicam $ 15.00 > Cyber Power $ 81.00 > Cyber Install $ 110.00 > House Sub Total * $ 450.00 * > > OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 > OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 > Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 > DLC per Sub Subtotal * $ 120.67 * > > > Electronics/Sub Total Expense * $ 570.67 * > > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a > 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. > > > So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per > user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for > electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, > we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we > are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure > Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any > type of major upgrade for several years. > > But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make > sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to > mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 > customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote:* > > When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe > electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor > cabinets. > > When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. > For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to > do PON. > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM > *To:* Chuck McCown > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Chuck, > > PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. > > > > *-- Best regards,Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc.*www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *--Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote:* > > Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? > > *From:* Mark - Myakka Technologies > *Sent:* Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM > *To:* Adam Moffett > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > Adam, > > There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement > wh
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAnd regulatory requirement. Actually the FCC is relaxing the 8 hours battery backup requirement. We may be able to charge the customer for UPS capability at some point. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 1:02 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT ah I see. For telephone reliability? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 3:00:39 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Nope. It is a requirement for regulated areas, not so for unregulated areas. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup. Not included on AE? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT $100/house for AE You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box. Some cost more than others depending on the sheet metal. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffe
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
ah I see. For telephone reliability? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 3:00:39 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Nope. It is a requirement for regulated areas, not so for unregulated areas. From:Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup. Not included on AE? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT $100/house for AE You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box. Some cost more than others depending on the sheet metal. From:Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM To:Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTNope. It is a requirement for regulated areas, not so for unregulated areas. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:53 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup. Not included on AE? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT $100/house for AE You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box. Some cost more than others depending on the sheet metal. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be splice
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
There's a UPS included in the parts list for PON setup. Not included on AE? -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 2:50:00 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT $100/house for AE You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box. Some cost more than others depending on the sheet metal. From:Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM To:Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT$100/house for AE You pay for the splitters that fit the cabinet and cross box. Some cost more than others depending on the sheet metal. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:44 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.Myak
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, What would you house total be for AE? Also $900 for 1x32 splitter, you need to find a better vendor. The bare end PLC's are $14 the fancy connectorized ones are $40 at fs.com. $11K for a 8 port card and $845 for a Laser, that's why we didn't/couldn't go with calix. That $120.67 should be about $40-$50. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 2:32:03 PM, you wrote: ONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down th
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
It's trivial to convert a homerun active Ethernet network into a PON network. Not so the other way. Jared Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 From: "Adam Moffett" <dmmoff...@gmail.com> To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com[mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com]> To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com] Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com] -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com] -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com]> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com]> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com[mailto:m...@mailmt.com] Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com[http://www.MyakkaTech.com] -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com[mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com]> To: af@afmug.com[mailto:af@afmug.com] Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup require
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTONT Housing (Clam Shell) $ 29.00 ONT $ 215.00 Unicam $ 15.00 Cyber Power $ 81.00 Cyber Install $ 110.00 House Sub Total $ 450.00 OLT $11K/8/32 $ 42.97 OIM $845/32 $ 38.27 Splitter $900/32 $ 39.43 DLC per Sub Subtotal $ 120.67 Electronics/Sub Total Expense $ 570.67 From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 12:29 PM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- S
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Dug up some of my costs on the GPON. One port with a C+ class laser and a 1x32 splitter cost me about $1000. So if I stick with my 50% utilization numbers, that gets me about $62 per user. Plus an indoor ONT gets me about $200-$225 per customer for electronics. As I increase my utilization, the numbers get better. But, we are only talking a different in a few months on the ROI. Remember we are debating fiber. I have ONT's out there over 72 months old. I'm sure Chuck has some at least 2 or 3 years older than that. I don't plan on any type of major upgrade for several years. But I must stress there is no right answer. AE vs GPON. You need to make sure you fully understand both options before making a decision. Not to mention, you can run both. We are setup to do AE, We currently have 2 customers on the AE side for various reasons vs 2500 on the GPON side. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:13:18 PM, you wrote: When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, https://www.fs.com/products/11528.html -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 1:37:09 PM, you wrote: Can you get a splitter with just bare pigtails? -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Chuck McCown" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:09:50 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not goin
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Can you get a splitter with just bare pigtails? -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Chuck McCown" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 1:09:50 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> ---- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I f
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTI do Calix GPON with mostly other people’s money and if the USF is supporting it. If I have my own skin in the game, I think AE is the way to go. When selling if the fiber is good and the customers are a revenue stream, I hope that is enough. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:23 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never"
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
That's also a compelling point. It's not a simple question for sure. The other reason I would think about GPON is that if a larger company wanted to purchase our network down the road I have to think about what THEY will prefer. They'll probably prefer PON. Humans are horrible at assessing their own biases, but I probably have a bias towards ethernet because it's familiar. I try to bear that in mind too. -- Original Message -- From: "Chuck McCown" <ch...@wbmfg.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/12/2018 1:13:18 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT When doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From:Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To:Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTWhen doing full throttle Calix GPON we have about $570 invested in cpe electronics, splitter, ont/olt/onu etc. Everything but fiber and outdoor cabinets. When doing active Ethernet you can come in closer to $100 per customer. For non regulated greenfield, I am having a hard time convincing myself to do PON. From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 11:09 AM To: Chuck McCown Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, Don't forget about Claas C+ lasers In terms of OLT Module, the sending power of Class B+ is 1.5~5dBm, and its receiver sensitivity is -28dBm while the sending power of Class C+ is 3~7dBm and receiver sensitivity -32dBm. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:08:13 PM, you wrote: As I recall, originally the GPON spec had a 12.5 mile limit due to timing, not due to signal strength. If you launch at -0 dBm and need –24 dBm that is a 24 dB margin. 32:1 splitters have 16 dB loss. That leaves you with 8 dB for cable, connector and splice loss. .5 dB per km for 1310, that gives you 16 kM or 10 miles. I may be off on a few numbers here, but as I recall it worked out to take 32 out the full 12.5 miles without running out of light irrespective of where you placed the splitters. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:38 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Chuck, PLC splitter in spice case doing full fusion splicing. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 12:09:32 PM, you wrote: Are you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I seeenlightening. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:55:03 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> ---- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAre you using splitters in splice cases or in cross connect boxes? From: Mark - Myakka Technologies Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:55 AM To: Adam Moffett Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLTAs I recall, originally the GPON spec had a 12.5 mile limit due to timing, not due to signal strength. If you launch at -0 dBm and need –24 dBm that is a 24 dB margin. 32:1 splitters have 16 dB loss. That leaves you with 8 dB for cable, connector and splice loss. .5 dB per km for 1310, that gives you 16 kM or 10 miles. I may be off on a few numbers here, but as I recall it worked out to take 32 out the full 12.5 miles without running out of light irrespective of where you placed the splitters. From: Adam Moffett Sent: Monday, February 12, 2018 9:38 AM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, There are some ranging things you have to consider. "The requirement when deploying ONTs are the maximum distance between two ONTs cannot exceed 20Km." The way we have done this is to reuse fibers as we travel down long stretches of roads between neighborhoods. We will deploy a 1x32 splitter in the field. We will splice that into the last 3 ribbons/tubes of our fiber. Example, if we were using a 144 count cable, ribbons 10-12 will be spliced into. After a few miles depending on density or distance, we will splice in another 1x32 splitter to ribbons 10-12. We just keep doing this until we run out of light budget. We build to the lots passed, so we are not trying to optimize max usage per port. Currently, we average about 50% utilization on our ports. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Monday, February 12, 2018, 11:38:39 AM, you wrote: Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Maybe I need to review the math. I was figuring on several small splitters along the route. I didn't compare to a 1x32 in the cabinet because I figured if I brought every fiber back to the cabinet then I didn't save anything versus ethernet. -- Original Message -- From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Adam Moffett" <af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/12/2018 11:30:46 AM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Markmailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Adam, How far are you going? We are pushing almost 20 miles on a 1x32 split. Are you using one 1x32 or multiple smaller splitters? -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Sunday, February 11, 2018, 10:24:30 PM, you wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Very true. It would make no sense at all with private funding. ROI in 25+ years, and nobody would invest in that when better returns are available. We're getting a grant from NY State. -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 11:59:17 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT If you're looking to do a few houses per mile, it's very likely that fiber doesn't make sense at all. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From:Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> -------- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 <http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf <http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf> -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
If you're looking to do a few houses per mile, it's very likely that fiber doesn't make sense at all. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett <dmmoff...@gmail.com> wrote: > I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking > at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line > down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then > I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses > per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. > > Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't > seeming to work out for me. > > I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON > some day if I want to. > > We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years > of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can > put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as > far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. > > -Adam > > > -- Original Message -- > From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> > To: af@afmug.com > Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM > Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > A few reasons... > > Port cost is still fairly high. > > More splicing. > > More fiber required. > > Larger chassis required. > > More power required. > > More battery backup required. > > Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity > in most places. > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > >> So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? >> >> *From:* Chuck Hogg >> *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM >> *To:* af@afmug.com >> *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with >> Zhone is different. >> >> Regards, >> Chuck >> >> On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: >> >>> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN >>> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember >>> which. ;-) >>> >>> >>> >>> - >>> Mike Hammett >>> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >>> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >>> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >>> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >>> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >>> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >>> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >>> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >>> >>> >>> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >>> -- >>> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >>> *To: *af@afmug.com >>> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >>> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >>> >>> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be >>> anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? >>> >>> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >>> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >>> >>> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: >>> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf >>> >>> -Jason >>> >>> >> >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
+1hunnit. AE for very low density makes sense. The same argument can be made for wireless. If you have one house on a 1 mile road, does it even make sense to do fiber for that one customer? And then multiply that by something like 5 or even 10 miles. Bring fiber to a customer and shoot a PTP to the house at the end of the road? Or give the customer the option to pay for their extra long drop? PON makes sense when you want all (or most) of the PON features for things like single pane of glass monitoring and such. OTOH, there's no reason you can't do AE on something like a Calix shelf and get most of that stuff. On 2/11/2018 9:24 PM, Adam Moffett wrote: I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com <mailto:j...@kyneticwifi.com>> To: af@afmug.com <mailto:af@afmug.com> Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com <mailto:ch...@wbmfg.com>> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? *From:* Chuck Hogg *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM *To:* af@afmug.com *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL><https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb><https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions><https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix><https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange><https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> *To: *af@afmug.com *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 <http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf <http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf> -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I'm looking at rural areas (like a few houses per mile). As I'm looking at hypothetical power budgets for PON, I'm finding that if I run the line down the road and put splitters on the pole I can split 5-6 times and then I'm getting too low on db to keep going down the road. At 5 or so houses per port, a 1U, 8 port ONT is no denser than a 1U switch. Your stated reasons for PON are all correct. The numbers just aren't seeming to work out for me. I also figure if I install enough fibers for AE, I can still switch to PON some day if I want to. We would never max out the PON port, but looking back on the past 15 years of growth in consumption I wonder if I should ever say "never". In AE I can put 100Gig in every house if I have to. I'll "never" have to do that as far as I can imagine, but my imagination could be limited. -Adam -- Original Message -- From: "Josh Reynolds" <j...@kyneticwifi.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: 2/11/2018 9:28:34 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From:Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To:af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 <http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf <http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf> -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
A few reasons... Port cost is still fairly high. More splicing. More fiber required. Larger chassis required. More power required. More battery backup required. Consumers not even close to using up 1-2 generations back of PON capacity in most places. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:53 PM, Chuck McCown <ch...@wbmfg.com> wrote: > So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? > > *From:* Chuck Hogg > *Sent:* Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM > *To:* af@afmug.com > *Subject:* Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with > Zhone is different. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN >> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember >> which. ;-) >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> -- >> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere >> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? >> >> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >> >> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: >> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf >> >> -Jason >> >> > >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
So, why do PON and not active in these super cheap optics days? From: Chuck Hogg Sent: Sunday, February 11, 2018 6:10 PM To: af@afmug.com Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP -- From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Why are you walking away from Alphion? I'm curious because we had our own issues. On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 7:10 PM, Chuck Hogg <ch...@shelbybb.com> wrote: > We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with > Zhone is different. > > Regards, > Chuck > > On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > >> I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN >> that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember >> which. ;-) >> >> >> >> - >> Mike Hammett >> Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> >> <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> >> <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> >> Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> >> <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> >> <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> >> The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> >> <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> >> >> >> <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> >> -- >> *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> >> *To: *af@afmug.com >> *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM >> *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT >> >> In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere >> near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? >> >> I found these guys, but have never heard of them: >> http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 >> >> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: >> http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf >> >> -Jason >> >> >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
We are walking away from them and Alphion...I think Mark's product with Zhone is different. Regards, Chuck On Sun, Feb 11, 2018 at 2:29 PM, Mike Hammett <af...@ics-il.net> wrote: > I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN > that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember > which. ;-) > > > > - > Mike Hammett > Intelligent Computing Solutions <http://www.ics-il.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/ICSIL> > <https://plus.google.com/+IntelligentComputingSolutionsDeKalb> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/intelligent-computing-solutions> > <https://twitter.com/ICSIL> > Midwest Internet Exchange <http://www.midwest-ix.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/mdwestix> > <https://www.linkedin.com/company/midwest-internet-exchange> > <https://twitter.com/mdwestix> > The Brothers WISP <http://www.thebrotherswisp.com/> > <https://www.facebook.com/thebrotherswisp> > > > <https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCXSdfxQv7SpoRQYNyLwntZg> > ------ > *From: *"Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> > *To: *af@afmug.com > *Sent: *Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM > *Subject: *[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT > > In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere > near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? > > I found these guys, but have never heard of them: > http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 > > It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: > http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf > > -Jason > >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
They may be the same company, but surely they haven't merged the lines already. Of course there's always legacy stuff too. - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Mark - Myakka Technologies" <m...@mailmt.com> To: "Jason McKemie" <af@afmug.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 10:16:36 PM Subject: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Jason, Dasan and Zhone are the same. There was a merger/take over last year. If you are just looking for outdoor ONT's, the 42xx GPON is what you want. Comes in many different flavors. http://dasanzhone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GPON-Outdoor-ONT-Products-1.pdf -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 9:45:24 PM, you wrote: It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax either. One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they have Dasan as well... Thanks again. On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > wrote: Jason, No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units. That looks like a fiber/coax hybird. We are strictly 100% fiber. I will have to check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: Mark - Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you buying from? Thanks. On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies < m...@mailmt.com > wrote: Jason, We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have any questions. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
I think Chuck Hogg walked far away from DASAN... or maybe it was DASAN that rescued them from the one they walked far away form. I don't remember which. ;-) - Mike Hammett Intelligent Computing Solutions Midwest Internet Exchange The Brothers WISP - Original Message - From: "Jason McKemie" <j.mcke...@veloxinetbroadband.com> To: af@afmug.com Sent: Tuesday, February 6, 2018 4:35:53 PM Subject: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Jason, Dasan and Zhone are the same. There was a merger/take over last year. If you are just looking for outdoor ONT's, the 42xx GPON is what you want. Comes in many different flavors. http://dasanzhone.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/03/GPON-Outdoor-ONT-Products-1.pdf -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 9:45:24 PM, you wrote: It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax either. One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they have Dasan as well... Thanks again. On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Jason, No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units. That looks like a fiber/coax hybird. We are strictly 100% fiber. I will have to check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: Mark - Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you buying from? Thanks. On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Jason, We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have any questions. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
It looked like it has options for coax/fiber hybrid, but their use-case diagram shows a straight fiber setup as well. I do not have any coax either. One of my providers distributes Zhone, not sure if that means they have Dasan as well... Thanks again. On Tuesday, February 6, 2018, Mark - Myakka Technologieswrote: > Jason, > > No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units. That looks > like a fiber/coax hybird. We are strictly 100% fiber. I will have to > check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our > units from. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: * > > Mark - > > Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you > buying from? > > Thanks. > > > On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies < > m...@mailmt.com> wrote: > > Jason, > > We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and > outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have > any questions. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > > *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: * > > In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere > near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? > > I found these guys, but have never heard of them: > http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 > > It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: > http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf > > -Jason >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Jason, No, we use the 42xx outdoor and the 24xx indoor GPON units. That looks like a fiber/coax hybird. We are strictly 100% fiber. I will have to check with our purchasing guy to see where we are currently getting our units from. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 6:48:29 PM, you wrote: Mark - Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you buying from? Thanks. On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologies <m...@mailmt.com> wrote: Jason, We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have any questions. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Mark - Do you have any experience with the outdoor OLT I linked to? Who are you buying from? Thanks. On Tue, Feb 6, 2018 at 4:50 PM, Mark - Myakka Technologieswrote: > Jason, > > We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and > outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have > any questions. > > > > *-- Best regards, Mark*mailto:m...@mailmt.com > > > > *Myakka Technologies, Inc. *www.MyakkaTech.com > > > > > > *-- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: * > > In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere > near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? > > I found these guys, but have never heard of them: > http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 > > It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: > http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf > > -Jason >
Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
Title: Re: [AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT Jason, We have about 2500 of the DASAN/Zhone onts deployed. A mix of indoor and outdoor. Been using them for at least 6 years. Let me know if you have any questions. -- Best regards, Mark mailto:m...@mailmt.com Myakka Technologies, Inc. www.MyakkaTech.com -- Tuesday, February 6, 2018, 5:35:54 PM, you wrote: In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=""> It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason
[AFMUG] Outdoor PON OLT
In light of finding out that Calix's offering is not going to be anywhere near within budget, does anyone else have any other suggestions? I found these guys, but have never heard of them: http://www.richerlink.com/en/products.asp?ClassID=116 It looks like DASAN also has an option - I've at least heard of them: http://www.dasannetworks.com/product_images/V5806_20140520174927.pdf -Jason