Kerry,
There are 2 Church of Ireland churches in Donagheady parish. Donagheady
itself and Dunnalong. It looks as though this burial was conducted by the
Minister from Dunnalong. Unless the register happens to say where the
burial took place (some were meticulous about recording that, most
Nancy,
James will says that he had a farm in Ballee (which he left to his 2
sisters). Looking at the Valuation revision records for Ballee, I see 2
Porter farms there. Plot 16 was James senior and consisted of 28 acres, 1
rood & 25 perches. It was rented from the Abercorn estate. The tenant
Rick,
There aren’t any specific lists of people who settled in Ireland as part of
the Plantation and other population movements in the 1600s. All we really
know are the names of the big tenants (Undertakers) and where in Scotland
they came from. But there are no lists of the tenants that
orrisons of Loughterush townland
> (kilskeery)
>
> Thanks for your response and information!
>
> Narrows it down some anyway. I guess i just need to keep searching for
> records of my Morrison ancestors there until i get all the way back to the
> 1600s ... only about 6 more to go!
>
Lisa,
The births and marriage were before the start of statutory registration in
Ireland (1864 for births and 1845 for non RC marriages). So you will have
to search church records, where they still exist. To do that ideally you
need to know the family denomination and their townland or parish.
Possibly worth bearing in mind that whilst there were direct ships from
Ireland to Canada and elsewhere throughout the 1800s, there were far more
from Liverpool. Liverpool acted as a clearing house for migrants from all
over Europe, and had far more departures than from Ireland. Competition for
>From a recent post about farming in Tyrone, I sense there is an interest in
day to day life in Tyrone in the 1800s. The following document might
therefore interest members of this forum. I found it in PRONI and thought
it gave a good description of life then.
*PRONI Reference : *
T2279/2
Gail,
For information, the Christopher Irwin inthe 1901 census married Ann Carson on
17.1.1855 in Clogher Church of Ireland.He was 22 and a widower. He lived in
Clare More (sometimes spelled Clayermore)and his father was Thomas Irwin, a
farmer. (Christopher previously had marriedElizabeth
Gail,
Statutory marriage registration started in Irelandin 1845 (save for RC
marriages). Statutory birth registration started in 1864(as did RC marriage
registration). So the Irwin-McCutcheon marriage and alltheir Irish born
children are well before those start dates. So you won’t finda
Ron,
It’s sometimes possible to see our ancestors’lives through rose tinted glasses.
Sometimes they didn’t live all that well, whether through fecklessnessor simply
poverty. You are scathing about the description of houses where youcan see
“pigs and fowls in the kitchen and everything is
The stir-about pot was hung on a swiveledarm over the open fire, and the
housewife just dropped anything available intoit. Mainly potatoes and oats, and
sometimes the odd onion. Meat was a rarity,though rabbits and so on were an
occasional bonus. It all went in together. Pretty basic stuff.
Peter,
I take your point about the Lieutenant’slikely background but there are plenty
of other contemporaneous descriptions oflife in Ireland in the mid 1800s, some
written by respected Irish born people that tend tosupport his account of rural
life.
The image of spending 12 hours planting
Beverley,
You could try contacting the Local Studiessection at Omagh Library and asking
them what they have. There ought to be some newspapers accounts and they may
have personalaccounts from folk who were there. Therelevant date seems to have
been 6th Jan 1839.
- I don’t have any contemporary descriptions of Scots-Irish accents in
Tyrone in the 1800s but I do have some from Antrim which suggest that at that
period, the Ulster Scots spoke with a clear Scottish accent. (Today it has
modified a bit though it remains quite different from the rest
Family Tree DNA reportedly has more peoplewith Ulster roots than any other
company. That obviously increases the chancesof finding a match. If you have
already tested,you can transfer your results to them for no fee.
The North of Ireland Family History Societyis running an Ulster DNA project
Margaret,
I echo what Boyd has said.
Armstrong is a very common name in Ireland.In the 1901 census there are 6122.
545 in Co Tyrone, 6 named Samuel and41 named William. The names would have been
even more common in the mid 1800s asthe population was considerably greater
then. (It was 8
Tina,
If Samuel served as a Minister in Ireland, thePresbyterian Church Historical
Society in Belfast should have some brief details ofhis career and background:
http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com
It wasn’t possible for prospective PresbyterianMinisters to get a degree in
Patricia,
Joseph left a will. Here’s his probateabstract. (The will itself is in PRONI in
Belfast) in paper format. If you goin person you can view it free, or if not,
PRONI will copy it for you (for afee).
Hadden Joseph Alexander of Lough Park Ballygawley county Tyronefarmer died 17
March
Ron,
As far as I am aware there’s no townlandnamed Armagh in Co. Tyrone and no
Tyrone in Co. Armagh. However as you havespotted, some parishes cross the
county borders and are in both, and the whole Armaghdiocese covers both
counties. Someone born or married in Co. Tyrone couldappear in
You won’t get a birth certificate forMichael Meehan because his birth was long
before the start of statutory birthcertificates in Ireland (1864). Prior to
1864 we generally rely on churchrecords but in this case if he was born near
Carrickmore (Termonmaguirk parish)in 1831, their baptisms don’t
If you are interested in background readingon the Armstrongs, and other border
reiver families, such as Nixon, Elliot,Bell, Graham, Henderson, Hogg and many
other names now common in Fermanagh& Tyrone then a good read is: “The Border
Reivers” by Godfrey Watson ISBN 07091 4478 4. Published 1974.
Carmen,
Statutory birth registration only started in Ireland in 1864, so you
won’t find a birth certificate for Alexander or Matilda. Prior to that
year you need to rely on church baptism records, where they exist.
Likewise for marriages, statutory marriage registration only started
in 1845 (for
Rosie,
Most court papers are deposited with PRONI in Belfast. So that is your
first port of call. Northern Ireland has only had formal adoption law
since 1927 so though you haven’t given a date, the adoption must have
been since then. Adoption papers for Co. Tyrone are held in PRONI
under the
DM,
It isn’t quite clear what you are hoping to achieve on your visit but
if it is to view the Church of Ireland records, then the principal
church in Cappagh parish has baptism, marriage and burial records from
1753 onwards. The originals appear to be still held by the parish and
there is a copy
Charlotte:
According to the John Grenham site the name Hamilton is:
“Very numerous: throughout Ulster, extending into Leinster and
Connacht. An important Scottish name which came in the Plantation of
Ulster, 17 cent. The town of Manorhamilton in Leitrim is indicative of
their extensive holdings.
ould help find our more
> about John McKee, Rev. David Evans or the settlers who set out from
> Cavanakeeran for Canada? Thank you for this great letter and all the
> details, a wonderful breadth of knowledge goes into this.
>
> Cheers
>
> Ron McCoy
>
> On 2019-06-21 11:23 a.
Darlene,
You can use the Griffiths Valuation site to see where the surname
Adams was found in Co Tyrone in 1860. There are 144 listed, right
across the county. There were 223 Adams in the county in the 1901
census.
But the problem you really face is that hardly any parishes in Tyrone
have any
en we take from it
> today? Does it mean money or position in the 1830"s? Can you elaborate on
> that for me if it does what would that entail for them and their families?
> Cheers
> Ron McCoy
>
> On 2019-06-21 8:33 a.m., elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:
>>
Tomas,
The RC church records for Arboe list 4 children to Patrick Devlin &
Rose Mallon (there may have been more but they don’t show up on
Ancestry):
Felix bapt 3.2.1851
Joseph baptised 2.4.1854
John 13.3.1857
Bridget 15.1.1865
I can also find a statutory birth certificate for Bridget which
Yes that’s the right death. It’s indexed on irishgenealogy under Rosev
(presumably a mistake for Rosey) and that explains why I couldn’t find
it.
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/deaths_returns/deaths_1893/05996/4706065.pdf
On 24/06/2019, Peggy Gordon via CoTyroneList
Griffiths Valuation lists Samuel Weir farming in Ballysudden. He had
plot 11 which was a farm of just under 11 acres. Easy enough to locate
today should you wish to do so. He remains tenant in the Valuation
revision records until 1888 when he is replaced by Andrew Barkley, who
I suspect may have
Plumbridge has been in Tyrone since at least the 1600s. There was a
change in the county borders in 1613 when part of Tyrone was moved
into Derry (the barony of Loughinsholin) but that didn’t affect
Plumbridge which remained in Tyrone. I think the information you have
is probably just a mistake.
Carmen,
There isn’t an equivalent site for Co Londonderry but I don’t mind
answering your query so far as I can.
If Killaig Presbyterian was the family church then its baptism records
start in 1805 and marriages in 1836. So if daughter Rachel was
baptised there c 1820 you may get her mother’s
Stan,
The townland where I think your Devine ancestors lived for many years
was Clogherny near Gortin, in Co. Tyrone. There’s a record of
Catherine’s birth there on 24th March 1889:
https://civilrecords.irishgenealogy.ie/churchrecords/images/birth_returns/births_1889/02485/1922146.pdf
Family in
David,
The primary reason that the church in Ardstraw can’t help is probably
because they don’t have any records for that period. Ardstraw West RC
records start in 1846 and Ardstraw East in 1860. So they will have
nothing on someone born in the late 1700s. No easy way around that.
Regarding the
Barb,
Cooel is part of Coolavannagh townland, or an alternative name for it.
Today that’s on the Glen Rd outside Drumquin. I see a death for a
William Coulter in Cooel on 3.2.1884 aged 67. His son William was the
informant.
There’s this 1 Coulter family there in 1901:
Ann,
The parish where the marriage took place is more commonly called Tullyniskan.
I searched the statutory marriage records for a first marriage for
Martha Farr 1845 – 1855 but did not find one. That suggests she
married before April 1845, which is when those records begin, or that
she had
Barb,
You say you can't find my message, so I am resending it:
Cooel is part of Coolavannagh townland, or an alternative name for it.
Today that’s on the Glen Rd outside Drumquin. I see a death for a
William Coulter in Cooel on 3.2.1884 aged 67. His son William was the
informant.
There’s this
Lindsay,
The townland where William Graham was living when he married in 1855
appears to be Artigarvan (where the church is also located). Today
that’s on the B49 Berryhill Rd, just outside Strabane. Sarah lived in
Milltown townland which is immediately adjacent.
Tradition was to marry in the
Ian,
Foremass is in Errigal Keerogue parish.
Elwyn
On 14/04/2019, Ian Moules via CoTyroneList
wrote:
> Dear All
>
> Which (parish) records should I be checking for relatives (Mullin/Mullen)
> from Foremass?
>
> I have a number of christening records from help that I received from
> members of
Cheryl,
If you think that the Lyttle/Little family were Church of Ireland and
lived in Lisnaskea, have you searched the local Church of Ireland
records? Lisnaskea is one of several churches in the parish of
Aghalurcher. It’s baptism, marriage & burial records start in 1804.
The records aren’t
Christine,
Tradition was to marry in the bride’s church after which she’d
normally attend her husband’s. So marriage and children’s baptisms are
often in different churches. In this case the bride lived in Grange.
Grange is in Desertcreat, so I’d expect that to be her family church.
The groom was
Karen,
You say Dennis Hopper has been traced to Tullyvannon in the parish of
Errigal Keerogue. I cannot find any Tullyvannon in Errigal Keerogue.
The only Tullyvannon in Tyrone is in the parish of Killeeshil.
Assuming Killeeshil is the parish the family lived in, the problem you
face is the lack
Looking at the PRONI catalogue of church records, there are 3
Presbyterian churches in Donagheady that the Taggart family might have
attended. Donagheady 1st seems to have lost its early records and has
nothing before 1875; Donagheady 2nd has records from 1838 and Donemana
from 1856. If John was
t’ll be tight.
> Any suggestion for the PRONI office to look threw? Or are there any
> Taggart’s/McKeevers still around Liscloon I might talk to? Thanks again for
> all the information. Pat
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 19, 2019, at 10:43, elwyn soutter via CoTyron
https://www.cotyroneireland.com/churchrecord/bready.html
>
> Bready Reformed Presbyterian Church Marriages 1847-62
>
> https://www.cotyroneireland.com/marriages/bready.html
>
>
>
> It is a formidable collection contributed by numerous descendants of
> Donagheady emigrants to C
There are some Ogilby papers in PRONI, mainly under the holding D1550.
There are some leases but I don’t see anything that looks like rental
books if that is what you had in mind. And even if they did have them,
there’s not going to be a lot of detail on a labourer’s cottage.
Elwyn
On
is parents
> could be William and Anne Irwin. Can’t find anything about when where they
> were married. I think Williams parents were Francis and Dorothy Taggart but
> no proof. Thanks for the help. Pay
>
> Sent from my iPhone
>
>> On Aug 18, 2019, at 17:34, elwyn soutter
Pat,
You say that you are not sure if the Sarah Taggart is your branch, as
everything you have doesn’t list her as a child of Francis & Mary. All
I can say is that on her marriage certificate she gave her townland as
Liscloon, her father as Francis Taggart, labourer and as you have said
yourself
Patty,
I noticed this death announcement for Quentin Hurst of 10, Aghnahoe Rd:
https://www.funeraltimes.com/quentinhurst404931566
There is still someone named Hurst at that address in the current
phone book. No Nicholas listed. I note that Quentin was buried in the
churchyard at Ballyreagh
Agnes,
Scottish birth certificates for the year 1855 and 1861 onwards should
record where and when the parents married. It seems you may have
found some that just say Tyrone. Usually there’s more than that. Check
all possible Scottish certificates for the years I have given, in case
you get some
When comparing the size of the tithes with the plots in Griffiths (as Len
has suggested) it's important to remember that tithes were normally
measured in Irish acres, whereas Griffiths is in statute acres.So you
cannot directly compare the two correctly without adjusting for the
difference. To
Griffiths clerks revisited properties every couple of years and noted the
changes. A different colour was normally used for each year. Sometimes the
years can be out by a year or two. The books themselves do have a specific
start and finish dates which are evident if you handle the originals.
Gordon,
The Plantation of Ulster was very much a 17th century event. The main
years when folk arrived were 1610-1630. Anyone arriving in the 19th
century did not come as part of the Plantation.
Folk did arrive after the Plantation. For example, in the 1640s,
General Monro’s army of 10,000 Scots
Ian,
Tyrone to Durham was (and still is) a short domestic journey. There
have never been passenger lists for that type of travel within the
British isles.
Elwyn
On 07/08/2019, Ian Moules via CoTyroneList
wrote:
> My great grandmother, Margaret Mullin, when a child, emigrated from Tyrone
> to
Angela,
I see that Patrick McPhillips was in the RIC, and presumably stationed
at Trillick when he met Margaret. RIC policy was not to post an
Officer to a county in which he or his wife had connections.
Consequently when a police officer married someone local as in this
case, it normally meant
Tom,
If you contact the Presbyterian Historical Society in Belfast, they are
likely to have records on the Rev MaClear which should tell you where he
served as Minister (as well as other information about his life).
http://www.presbyterianhistoryireland.com
The term “Meeting House” was how
Ireland) went to Church, Catholics attended the Chapel and Presbyterians
> gathered in the Meeting House.
>
>
>
> Regards,
>
> Len Swindley, Melbourne, Australia
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail <https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986>
Donna,
Your family may not be easy to trace. Both Mary & Elizabeth were almost
certainly born before the start of statutory birth registration (1864) and
so you won’t get birth certificates for them. You need to rely on church
records for baptisms before 1864. Not all those records have survived
JoAnn,
You haven’t said what denomination your McQuade family was but looking at
the 1901 census for Tyrone all 131 were RC so I’ll assume yours were too.
I searched the rootsireland records for any McQuade children born in Tyrone
in 1830 +/- 10 years to parents named Dominick and Susan. I
Cheryl,
The PRONI guide to church records suggests Ballymagrane Presbyterian has no
marriage records before 1845. Possibly your DNA contact got the
information from some other source eg a newspaper report? I think you might
need to ask.
Elwyn
On Mon, 25 Nov 2019 at 17:39, cheryl lyttle
Susan,
You might find the historical maps on the PRONI website helpful:
https://apps.spatialni.gov.uk/PRONIApplication/
There’s a whole set of maps of Tyrone (and the rest of Northern Ireland)
with the oldest dating to 1832. You can switch between them to compare the
changes through the
used Google Earth to 'drive' along the virtual roads where they
> lived. Almost as good as being there! Sadly their farmhouse ain't there
> any more. :(
>
> Gordon
>
> On 23/02/2020 5:36 pm, elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList wrote:
> > Susan,
> >
> >
>
Edward & Albert look to be separate people. Probate abstracts from the
PRONI wills site:
Fulton Edward Henry of Windyhill Donemana county Tyrone retired farmer died
27 March 1954 at the Waterside Hospital Londonderry Probate Londonderry 2
July to Albert Joseph Fulton farmer and John Wray Fulton
Peggy,
Irishgenealogy only has records for Northern Ireland up to 31.12.1921. For
events after that, the only site with them is GRONI. I have looked and can
confirm that Joshua’s death is there, aged 88 (which of course is just the
informant’s guesstimate) and registered in Cookstown. If you
Martha,
Families often carried names forward from generation to generation. With
that in mind, I searched the 1901 Irish census for Ralph Crozier. There was
just one in the whole country. He lived in Magheralough in Tyrone. The
family was Church of Ireland (ie Anglican).
f his age. My only other record is his
> immigration record as a passenger in 1851 listing him as 3 years old.
> Lizanne Smith
>
> On Fri, May 8, 2020 at 4:52 AM elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList <
> cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
>
> > As additional informati
There’s similar confusion over the letter Z as it appears in surnames in
Ireland and Scotland. Gaelic doesn’t have the letter Y and scholars,
perhaps unwisely, decided to express that sound using the letter Z instead.
So the surname Dalziel is correctly pronounced Dee-Yell. (But sometimes now
Francesca,
As others have explained, Munterevlin/Munterdevlin is a general area up the
west side of Lough Neagh. Mainly in Counties Tyrone & Derry. You can see
what RC parishes there are in the general area from the attached two maps:
David,
Try this site: https://www.logainm.ie/en/
Elwyn
On Thu, 7 May 2020 at 18:34, David Prater via CoTyroneList <
cotyronelist@cotyroneireland.com> wrote:
> There is a great "place name" website for Northern Ireland at
> Placenamesni.org, but it does not cover County Donegal. Is there an
>
Rick,
The surname, the general location and the family denomination all point to
them being settlers who probably arrived in Ireland in the 1600s.
MacLysaght’s surnames of Ireland describes Morrison as “an English name
numerous in Ulster.” The location ie Tyrone, is a county heavily settled
Peggy,
Armalughey in the parish of Carnteel seems pretty likely. There were
several Happer families farming there in the 1827 tithes including a James.
https://cotyroneireland.com/tithe/carnteel.html
By Griffiths Valuation in 1860 the surname was spelled Hopper. Likewise in
the 1901
The Vikings presence in Ireland was from around 795AD to 1000AD. So
well over 1000 years ago. Most genealogical DNA tests don’t go back
that far, or anywhere near it. Just a few generations really. If you
have some DNA from that part of Europe it probably comes from some
other much more recent
Peter,
LAP stands for “Land Act Purchase”. As far as I am aware, it was introduced
with the 1903 Land Act, often known as Wyndham’s Land Act, so you shouldn’t
see it in use before that year. It provided the final piece of legislation
to make land ownership more reasonable in Ireland, especially
Marion,
You discuss the introduction of wills as legalizing the process. Wills have
been around for a very long time and it’s perhaps worth mentioning that
your ancestors may well have had wills that detailed the various
inheritances you suspect just went through perhaps on the nod. That
Marion,
Sorry you can’t find Connell’s book. It is fairly old (1950) and may not be
on-line anywhere. I think I found a copy in the Linenhall Library in
Belfast and photocopied a couple of dozen pages. The book looks at Ireland
as a whole and I am not sure if every custom reported there was
> Peter
>
> please don't print this email unless you really need to
>
> -Original Message-
> From: CoTyroneList On Behalf
> Of elwyn soutter via CoTyroneList
> Sent: 22 June 2020 22:49
> To: CoTyroneIreland.com Mailing List
> Cc: elwyn soutter
> Subject
Gordon,
I am glad you are enjoying the book. It made me laugh. I have a neighbour
who was brought up on a farm like that in Co. Down and he says it’s pretty
typical. He particularly recalled the arrival of the first tractor in the
late 1940s which he (as a young man) was wildly enthusiastic
Regarding “reps of” cases, it was common for there to be significant delays
in winding up of some estates. That could be a combination of slow or
ineffective executors or it could be because there were disputes or other
legal matters which delayed things.
As a random search, I went to the PRONI
Peter,
Sorry if you feel I misinterpreted your words. (You said: “may be to avoid
having to draw up a new lease until it was necessary.”) Dodge wasn’t
intended in any pejorative way, simply as being expedient.
Elwyn
On Mon, 29 Jun 2020 at 11:47, Peter McKittrick via CoTyroneList <
Jeanette,
Thomas Taggart’s marriage in Glasgow in 1871 records that his parents were
William Taggart (farm labourer) and Ann Sharp and both were still alive at
that date.
Irish RC parish records on Ancestry have a record of a Letitia Taggart
baptised on 21.7.1846 to William Taggart & Ann
Rick,
I can’t point you to specific legislation, but all I can say is that all
the documentation I have ever seen points to a rented farm being heritable
the same as any other asset. The farmer was free to dispose of it as he
chose. What he was disposing of was the unexpired portion of the
To me it meant he owned land. As an example, someone who owned a big
shooting estate would be a landed proprietor.
Occasionally occupations on marriage certificates can be a bit tongue in
cheek, and you sometimes see rather grandiose terms. A dustman becomes a
refuse disposal operative and so
Marion,
I suspect that a full answer to your interesting question could fill a
hundred pages.
One source you might want to investigate is: “The Population of Ireland
1750 – 1845” by KH Connell, published in Oxford 1950. One of the many
causes of the problems that plagued Ireland in the 1800s
Griffiths Valuation lists John Watson with 3 plots in the townland,
totaling 50 acres, which he was renting from John Shaw. So he was a farmer
with a decent amount of land, but which he didn’t own. He, or his son,
evidently saw that as being a landed proprietor. Sounds grander than
farmer.
Rick,
Ballyboe is from the Irish words “Baile bo” meaning “cow land.” According
to Philip Robinson - “The Plantation of Ulster”, a ballyboe was “A small
Irish land division which, before the plantation, represented the territory
within which several families worked the land. Although the real
Katie,
Can I say thank you. 3 or 4 other folk on the board have also e-mailed me
privately to express similar sentiments. I am touched.
All I would say is that when I see a query that I think contains issues of
wider interest to other members of this board, I try to answer in a way
that will
87 matches
Mail list logo
