Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-30 Thread dark
...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 10:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance LOL. I also liked Liu-Kang's Dragon Snack fatality where he turned into a dragon and either ate the other guy or just bit his

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Well, you are in luck. I found a copy of Super Tux for Windows at http://supertux.lethargik.org/download.html as well as Mac and Linux downloads. You might want to swing by there and give the game a try. They have both the stable and developmental versions available, and I for one am

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread dark
that option is. All the best, Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Well, you

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Shaun Everiss
well the basic version could be done on bgt but its meaningless if there is no structure to this. Someone tried to make mario in python and then in bgt and sonic the hedgehog with real sfx and music but none of these ever really got off the ground so there is probably more to converting this

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Shaun, Well, for one thing a lot of the items in Mario, for example, wouldn't have real world sounds. There are flowers that make Mario grow, shrink, shoot fireballs, etc. I have often wondered since flowers do not have a specific sound how one is suppose to make them accessible other than

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Glad you like it. As it so happens when I started having vision troubles snow and ice environments against a blue sky gave me a lot of troubles too. That seems to be a common contrast problem for people with visual disabilities. All the same I am interested in looking at the code and the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I think the contrast thing is fairly general and doesn't just apply to games, sinse any bright background can glare a lot and overwhelm certain objects, while it's much easier to pinpoint a light object on a dark background. I will see what I can do with the game though, sinse

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread dark
Hi Tom. To be honest realism seems more a matter of what type of game you want to make. I can after all think of lots of great games which range from totally surreal, often cutesy affairs such as Mario, James Pond, bubble bobble, several Kirby games, to ultra serious quests to save the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Bryan Peterson
Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Tom. To be honest realism seems more a matter of what type of game you want to make. I can after all think of lots of great games which range from totally surreal, often cutesy affairs such as Mario, James

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread dark
Hi Bryan. Your right that I probably ought to have said serious rather than realistic, though my point was rather to do with thier plot, atmosphere and setting than actual levels of realism. You are right though, the Mk games are almost like the Monty Python black knight fight in terms of

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-29 Thread Bryan Peterson
turlingdromes, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Thursday, May 29, 2014 1:31 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around a certain problem. To give you an example there is a

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread dark
taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various open source retro remakes for ideas on how to get around

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 8:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, Perhaps, but sometimes talking to other developers isn't always necessary per se. Besides tutorials there is always the possibility of looking at sample code such as the various

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread dark
to find new things to try out. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 28, 2014 9:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Sure. Too bad Super Tux isn't accessible as I think you and a lot of others would really enjoy it. The basic concept of the game is you play Tux, the Linux penguin, as he travels through his icy world doing a lot of things Mario does such as breaking blocks of ice, jumping over patches

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-28 Thread dark
Hi Tom. If there were a windows version I'd certainly give it a try and see if my level of sight would let me play it. While I don't particularly scour the net for graphical windows games because finding something that my level of sight and my inability to read text can cope with can be a

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-27 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Sure. Although, I think I would prefer having some sort of tutorial or guide explaining the implementation of analog movement from a programmer's perspective than just talking to mainstream programmers from retro remakes etc. However, that I am aware of how the old NES and SNES

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-27 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I certainly think looking for tutorials is a good idea, I just wondered if for necessary formulae chatting to developers of graphical games of a similar style to the classic ones your trying to make in audio might be helpful if there isn't a resource that gives precise answers to

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-26 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Interesting. I certainly wasn't aware the classic joysticks for Atari and NES had simple on/off input systems like a keyboard. I of course have studied how PC game controllers like how the Logitech game controllers for the PC work, and naturally assumed that the joysticks for older

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-26 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Jim, Yeah, it makes a big difference in Mach 1 TTS having a racing wheel and peddles. Same goes for Rail Racer. You can use the keyboard, but it isn't nearly as precise or as seamless as using a racing wheel with those games. Cheers! On 5/25/14, Jim Kitchen j...@kitchensinc.net wrote: Hi

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-26 Thread dark
Hi Tom. nope, as I said up until the quite late 90's the 3D thumb stick controllers didn't exist and all input was either on or off, meaning analogue movement was handled entirely by the game itself. Older arcade sticks (and indeed sticks like my X arcade one), basically work the same way

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-25 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Precisely. I think a lot of VI gamers have an incomplete or inaccurate idea of various mainstream games. After all many of them have played games like Mario Brothers, but with help from a friend or family member who probably described it to them. However, describing it and experiencing

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-25 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Yeah, the games themselves aren't a good guide as to what console you had. I know my Atari 7800 could play pretty much anything from the 2600, 5200, and 7800 so all I needed to have was the one console to be the Atari king. Of course, I also had an old Atari 2600 as well, but once I got

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-25 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I'm afraid I completely disagree about analogue movement. The sort of sticks your talking about, the 3D thumb sticks that directly calibrated player movement to stick position, eg, far right = walk fast right less far right = slower, didn't come into the mainstream world until the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-25 Thread Jim Kitchen
Hi Thomas, The keyboard verses game input devices is why for Mach 1 tts I said I wrote Mach 1 tts specifically for my Logitech MOMO Racing steering wheel joystick. It should work ok with other game controllers as well. However some of the tracks may be very difficult if not impossible to

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread dark
. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 3:00 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance No kidding. It's interesting how

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I'm not sure on the model number myself. I've occasionally assumed it was some varient of the 2600, sinse when i've sinse seen 2600 versions of games I remember like Berzerk and joust they are the same as I thought, but as you said sinse 2600 games could play on the later consoles

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread dark
Hi KAra. I don't unfortunately remember that tactic, sinse I was rather young at the time, indeed if I wanted to play warlord I usually had to get someone to plug the paddle controlers in for me. Makes me want to play it again :D. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread dark
Hi Tom. that is a good point, sinse obviously iff a person is only working from a partial idea of a mainstream game, at best they will only come up with an audio convertion, and I do admit some of the more famous game mechanics are a little illogical. For example, I could imagine someone

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread Bryan Peterson
thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 8:01 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan, Yours was the original Atari 2600

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread Bryan Peterson
Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance The music was interesting, sinse those atmospheric choso city background thremes weren't much on their own, but could get dam creepy if you were crawling up a wall to one unexplored corner of a huge cave

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-24 Thread dark
Hi Bryan. Lol, that's quite funny about the ice beam. Amusingly enough, when I first finished the game when i was 16I had the same thing happen, I got a hatchling munching my brains. I ended up wandering all the way back through the omega zone and through all the shafts to that room in the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread dark
Hi Kara. I've never run into issues with Snes games on my 42 inch, which is also wide screen as you say. The few nes remakes I have for the gba also play very well, indeed I've recently been having some casual fun with ice climbers. The only games I've noticed look a little whacky are

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread dark
Hi Kara. That is good to know, and actually I might considder getting one of those at some point myself, though obviously I still have some vision so at least some games will be playable. My dad used to own a thing called a power joy which was like a joypad attacched to a cartridge that

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread dark
The paddles took a little getting used to, but one game I always remember that required them was warlord. This was basically like a four player version of pong or breakout, with each player in the corner of a screen. You had a ball (on some levels more than one), that boused around, and

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I'm afraid I'm not sure which version of atari we had. I know we got it second hand from a friend, so it might have been an older earlier console, or a later one. it had a silver strip on the front and two buttons and two switches on the top. One of the swtiches turned the sound

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Bryan Peterson
in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:03 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Kara. I've never run into issues with Snes games on my 42

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Bryan Peterson
, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:13 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Bryan Peterson
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Tom. I'm afraid I'm not sure which version of atari we had. I know we got it second hand from a friend, so it might have been an older earlier console, or a later one. it had a silver strip on the front and two buttons

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread dark
Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came from metroid Ii, and I absolutely love the spider ball. People pan the game because it was separated into recognizable zones each holding several metroids, but honestly in a game

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Bryan Peterson
don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Friday, May 23, 2014 7:47 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. It's a hugely under rated game. Lots of the items and mechanics that made Super metroid what it is came

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Bryan, Yours was the original Atari 2600. The wood-grain panel was the earlier version of the console. The later 2600 was smaller and all black, and instead of switches had buttons as I recall. Cheers! On 5/23/14, Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net wrote: I'm guessing then that it

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, That's definitely a later model console. I'm not sure which console you had, but it sounds like the Atari 7800 which could play both 2600 and 7800 games. I seem to recall my 7800 could change colors and stuff like that too. The early Atari 2600 was way different from what you described.

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Well, I do see where you are coming from, but I don't think the issue here is purely technical. What I mean by that is that it is not just a difficulty of converting mainstream mechanics to audio, but more a matter of if the audio game developer realizes that his/her game is lacking in

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, An interesting concept. Deserves thinking about at any rate. Cheers! On 5/22/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Tom. Yep, i definitely remember the enemy blasting holes in the shields, indeed a favourite tactic of mine was blasting through the center of the shield myself so I was

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Oh, it was definitely something playing games like Space Invaders and other games on a 78 inch screen. Not that I got to do so that often. That was my parents TV, and naturally they bought it to watch movies etc in the den. So most of the time I ended up playing games on a standard 25

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-23 Thread Cara Quinn
Dark, I totally loved that version as well. If you got to the side of the screen quick enough so you could let the fireball go at the neighboring castle just before the opponent's shield blocked you, the opponent shield would end up bouncing the fireball back at its own castle again and again

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread dark
Hi Tom. Wow! I bet original space invaders on a 78 inch projector was cool. I currently have my snes, Pc and gamecube plugged into a 42 inch flatscreen, which is pretty awsome after years of playing on standard sized tv screens, but I'm still jealous! :D. Back when we had the atari 2600 we

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread dark
Hi Tom. Yep, i definitely remember the enemy blasting holes in the shields, indeed a favourite tactic of mine was blasting through the center of the shield myself so I was protected on both sides and using it to take out lots of invaders while I got the cover. You mentioning shield power

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I would never suggest giving up on an attempt to replicate mainstream mechanics in audio games entirely, certainly i've occasionally been quite surprised at the ingenuity of developers. My problem however, is that as you said yourself, developing games is not easy and developers

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, May 21, 2014 9:44 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Dark, I certainly see where you are coming from, but I see two problems

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Cara Quinn
Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60 inch 3D plasma screen so am wondering how games like Tempest etc would come off. Tempest was originally done in color vector graphics so looked absolutely amazingly cool in the arcade.

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Cara Quinn
don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly a 2 and have a 60

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which emulates old Atari 2600 and Jaguar games. There are currently I believe, 6 or 7 generations / variations of this system which

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Cara Quinn
blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4 and possibly

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Cara Quinn
blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 11:39 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Am curious myself! :) I have been considering getting an Atari Flashback 4

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:37 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance HI Brian, Yes they can. The Flashbacks can use analog controllers

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:40 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi again Brian, If you were looking for a backup option, I would suggest either a Flashback 2 (not a 2

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Cara Quinn
thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Cara Quinn Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:06 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Brian, The Atari Flashback is a system which

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Bryan Peterson
Sent: Thursday, May 22, 2014 12:45 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Brian, Just out of curiosity, which games do you have for the Atari? which ones are your favs? How easy are these to play without sight? thanks and have

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Yeah, I am pretty sure there were color variations of the game out there, and I believe that was the main difference between the Atari 2600 and Atari 7800 versions. Plus keep in mind there were two different Atari 2600's released. There was the original 2600 consoles from the early 80's

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Cara, I am not sure. Its possible the legacy version of the games on the Atari Flashback take wide screen in to consideration, and they'd almost have to considering most televisions now days all are for wide screen formats. I guess the games that are setup for full screen would behave more or

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-22 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Bryan, Just goes to prove my point. There are answers out there to some of these problems in audio, but developers either don't know of them or don't remember what has been tried before when developing their own games. A particular answer just may not occur to a person at that time and the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I do see your point in trying to give people who have not played the original the same experience, however my problem is what usually happens when a game is translated to audio from an original graphical conceptmy problem is that when a developer simply cannot replicate a mechanic in

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I agree on ship numbers, indeed that is another point of game design for good audio games, making sure that the sounds actually serve a regular purpose. Regarding the shields above your ship, This might also however be a case where changing the game design rather than simply

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I don't doubt your right, however bare in mind my experience of the classic space invaders was always on consoles like the atari 2600, or very old computers like the bbc micro, I've never actually played the original arcade version. The graphics were never very specific on those,

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Actually, what I am talking about is the version for the Atari 2600. I wasn't talking about the actual arcade machines in arcades, bars, stores, etc. Although, in this case it doesn't make any difference as they were identical. However, I'll say that if you and your father played the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Sure, I do see where you are coming from. Removing the hovering shields and just giving them to the player would make sense. It changes the game, but in a way that forces the gamer to adopt a strategy when and where to use them rather than just passing under the hovering shields as

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-21 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, I certainly see where you are coming from, but I see two problems with your conclusions. One, is that not every programmer has the same skills, and sometimes one programmer might think of a novel solution to solve a problem that another programmer would not think of to resolve a

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Cara, That makes sense, and you are absolutely right that the short attention span issue is a very important one for many gamers. Many people want a game that is able to be picked up, played for a short while, set down, and picked up again with ease. there are many games like that which are

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Cara, Yes, precisely. During my development of Montezuma's Revenge and later Mysteries of the Ancients I ran into a number of cases where something as simple as height couldn't be translated perfectly into an audio equivalent. Using pitch is helpful, but still wasn't a perfect solution in all

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Ahem...I didn't mean to imply telegraphing attacks was only useful in fighting games. Just used that as a simple case example. I fully realize and am aware the concept works in many different styles and genres of games such as a classic Space Invaders type game. I agree with you that the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi Kara. I fully well agree that the achievement system and short levels of games can help a game's appeal a lot. I also do agree that the more a game can vary what is going on from level to level (especially if the progression is small), the better it can hold the interest of casual and long

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi kara. You are correct that visually all events in a game require the player to notice before hand, however my point was not really about reaction times. it's quite possible to react to an audio stimulous as fast as a visual one and your absolutely correct about some blind people with super

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi kara. Sorry if I didn't explain the idea adequately. I have not heard of or played Star castle, but certainly telegraphing attacks is not a new idea in mainstream games either, even telegraphing in audio. For example, in the super marrio brothers castles, when you get close to bowser,

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I agree on casual games, but there are also cases where the very size of levels is what makes them appealing such as the Metroid series, or indeed complex muds like Alteraeon. In these cases this is where instant saving can help a lot, even if the over all level is much larger.

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi Tom. five invaders was an approximate figure, my point was simply that you probably couldn't have as many as in a game like troopanum sinse there is a problem of informational overload. Look at the start of the Lord Vector fight at the end of troop 2 as one example. There you've got

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread dark
Hi Tom. Interesting thoughts and I will agree problems with depicting hight have provided major issues for 2d games in audio. That being said, maybe this is a case where adapting some of the mechanics to be more challenging in audio rather than explicitly trying to replicate the mainstream

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Bryan Peterson
Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Well Bryan as I said, I'll probably have to look for the game sinse I still have my snes and I have always heard a lot about it, right from watching that old Captain N cartoon which featured King hippo as one of the bad guys

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Well, the problem I see with that is simply this. While not precisely replicating mainstream mechanics might be helpful from an accessibility point of view it still does not give us a comparable experience. What we end up with is a different experience or challenge entirely which may or

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Good point. Level 16 in Troop 2 is a royal pain because there are too many sounds playing making it confusing from an audio perspective which demonstrates the sort of problem with a true Space Invaders clone with 24 ships on screen at once. If I were to write a true Space Invaders clone

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Valiant Galaxy Associates
Hi. This is a good thread. It gives us at VGA things to think about with our own projects. Without spoiling too much we definitely have been trying to keep the game play really simple. I'm actually concerned that people may find our first game to be too simple and wonder why we really

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Obviously, it must be said that not all things will appeal equally to all people. I myself prefer a game with larger levels, fairly in depth missions, whatever and therefore casual games don't often appeal to me for long periods of time. That said, I can see why people with short

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-20 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Just a slight correction if I might. This is not intended to be anything more than information for information's sake. Dark wrote: One of the things that makes graphical space invaders so appealing is that the player is tracking many factors at once. The position of the spaceships above

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Shaun, Hmm...Interesting. Admittedly I have only played the demo of Super Liam, but I never felt the game was that hard. True, you do need to pay attention and concentrate on what you are doing, but that sort of applies to any game. However, if you have a short attention span, are unable to

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Dark, I think Eleanor was talking about game mechanics the same as you. Different terminology, but same basic concept. Cheers! On 5/16/14, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: Hi Eleanor. I'm afraid I'm not exactly sure what you mean by game mechanism here. I've seen various forms of game with

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Eleanor, I agree. A good game, an especially well designed game, has a good balance between simple mechanics but complexity and depth. That is hard to achieve. It is for that reason game developers go back to the well per se to try and replicate the same thing they have done before hoping of

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I do agree access is an issue, but what I find quite interesting is that many of the very successful audio games have introduced features which incorporate elements of the audio experience into the game, rather than directly trying to adapt mainstream games verbatim. For all swamp

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Thomas Ward
Hi Dark, Hmm...I honestly haven't thought of things quite that way, but you are right. While I have been working on Montezuma's Revenge and Mysteries of the Ancients I have always strived to aim for mainstream game mechanics and have been trying to adapt them to an audio only environment. In many

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Bryan Peterson
, And hooptiously drangle me with crinkly bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: Thomas Ward Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 4:57 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread dark
Hi Tom. I wouldn't say the rule book needs throwing out, so much as just rethinking. For example, you list the telegraphing of attacks as something for fighting games. While they could be used in that way, there is no reason not to use them elsewhere. For example, suppose that you were

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread dark
Hi Bryan. I have never actually played super punchout (never owned a nes), so I will take your word for it, though I have seen tells in other games, for example many of the mega ma bosses workedi this way. It's not however just a matter of telegraphing attacks, after all several games

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Bryan Peterson
blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hi Bryan. I have never actually played super punchout (never owned a nes), so I will take your

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread dark
Hmmm, I didn't realize that. If thatwas the case I might look for a copy on Ebay. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Bryan Peterson
bindlewurdles, or I will rend thee in the gobberwarts with my blurglecruncheon, see if I don't! -Original Message- From: dark Sent: Monday, May 19, 2014 6:46 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance Hmmm, I didn't realize

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Cara Quinn
Hi Thomas, Thanks to you and Dark and others for this really great topic. Thomas, I personally think the attention span concept is a very important issue here. A significant amount of gaming is now done on mobile platforms which harkens back to my mention of games which can be played for a

Re: [Audyssey] game taste was: Re: regarding temporal disturbance

2014-05-19 Thread Cara Quinn
Thomas, excellent points! Some of the simplest concepts can be extraordinarily difficult to translate into audio with any sense of simplicity and intuitiveness. For example, I believe Dark has alluded to this in the past; the concept of displaying the height of an object in a game with pitch

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