Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Thu, 11 Feb 2016 20:29:57 -0600
"J. Leslie Turriff" wrote:
> On Friday 05 February 2016 04:56:53 vitalif wrote:
> > >Everyone just rebuild gimp with my patch
> > >http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-sav
> > >e_export.diff?view=co and be happy
> >
> > P.S or use prebuilt gimp packages for debian unstable from my repo:
> > http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian/unstable/ ("deb
> > http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian unstable/" in sources.list)
>
> Strangely enough, not everyone uses a debian-based distro. :-)
>
And luckily enough, one can rebuild GIMP with this patch (and/or any other
patches) on other systems as well, assuming one wants to.
Regards,
Shlomi Fish (who also isn't using a Debian-based distribution)
--
-
Shlomi Fish http://www.shlomifish.org/
Chuck Norris/etc. Facts - http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/
The more money Chuck Norris comes across, the less problems he sees.
— http://www.shlomifish.org/humour/bits/facts/Chuck-Norris/
Please reply to list if it's a mailing list post - http://shlom.in/reply .
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Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Friday 05 February 2016 04:56:53 vitalif wrote:
> >Everyone just rebuild gimp with my patch
> >http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-sav
> >e_export.diff?view=co and be happy
>
> P.S or use prebuilt gimp packages for debian unstable from my repo:
> http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian/unstable/ ("deb
> http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian unstable/" in sources.list)
Strangely enough, not everyone uses a debian-based distro. :-)
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A Caution to Everybody
Consider the Auk;
Becoming extinct because he forgot how to fly, and could only walk.
Consider man, who may well become extinct
Because he forgot how to walk and learned how to fly before he thinked.
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Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > From: ralf.kest...@gmx.net > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:29:29 +0100 > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Go to Edit > Preferences > Environment > Saving Images and untip > "Confirm closing of unsaved images" Nope, that option was officially removed some versions ago (checked against 2.8.14), probably for reasons that are easy to guess. I know the idea I'm describing appears similar to that old option but it would only apply to open images that are (1) not saved or otherwise associated with an XCF file, (2) recently exported, and (3) no changes since said export. The first part is the critical distinction -- in the XCF-based workflow you always want the dirty status evaluated relative to the XCF file; wereas if it's just a quick session of trivial edits and export, that's the scenario where the unsaved prompt is not necessarily valuable. > Date: Fri, 5 Feb 2016 11:40:52 +0100 > From: for...@gimpusers.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > CC: notificati...@gimpusers.com > Subject: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Everyone just rebuild gimp with my patch > http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co > and be happy DIY is technically always an option ... in the same way that most bridges are built over water. :) -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>Everyone just rebuild gimp with my patch
>http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co
>and be happy
P.S or use prebuilt gimp packages for debian unstable from my repo:
http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian/unstable/ ("deb
http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian unstable/" in sources.list)
--
vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums)
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[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Everyone just rebuild gimp with my patch http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co and be happy >The first part -- prompting you for the export settings -- is actually >expected to happen the first export per image session. Depending on >which filetype you're outputting to, some settings could make or break >compatibility with specific apps (e.g. I seem to recall one of the BMP >export options doing precisely this, if it was set wrong then Win32 >APIs refused to read the file) . At least some export types (e.g. >JPG) allow you to save and load export settings > >As for the second part, confirm closing of exported-not-saved images, >personally I would prefer this to be a preferences option but I've >never seen any support for the idea expressed by GIMP devs. (Though I >haven't exactly been tracking it, either.) However, didn't somebody >make a plug-in that calls the Export command then resets the image's >dirty flag? It does not replace the existing Export command but it >would save you the extra prompt when closing the window. > >On a tangent (feel free to split this), I typically run GIMP in >single-window mode and I would really like an option that if more than >one image is open in SWM, closing the window will ALWAYS prompt if you >want to do this, regardless of whether those images are saved. >(Analogous to Firefox prompting if you want to close a window that has >multiple open tabs on it.) > >-- Stratadrake >strata_ran...@hotmail.com > >Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Am 05.02.2016 um 05:03 schrieb Richard: As for the second part, confirm closing of exported-not-saved images, personally I would prefer this to be a preferences option but I've never seen any support for the idea expressed by GIMP devs. (Though I haven't exactly been tracking it, either.) However, didn't somebody make a plug-in that calls the Export command then resets the image's dirty flag? It does not replace the existing Export command but it would save you the extra prompt when closing the window. Go to Edit > Preferences > Environment > Saving Images and untip "Confirm closing of unsaved images" ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Wed, 3 Feb 2016 22:30:23 +0100 > From: for...@gimpusers.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > CC: notificati...@gimpusers.com > Subject: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > >Just wanted to add yet another voice to the "really annoyed" list. > >That is all. > > I came here and other gimp related sites to try to find some solution to > always > asking settings of exporting/saving an image in jpeg format and to bypass the > dialog saying it was unsaved The first part -- prompting you for the export settings -- is actually expected to happen the first export per image session. Depending on which filetype you're outputting to, some settings could make or break compatibility with specific apps (e.g. I seem to recall one of the BMP export options doing precisely this, if it was set wrong then Win32 APIs refused to read the file) . At least some export types (e.g. JPG) allow you to save and load export settings As for the second part, confirm closing of exported-not-saved images, personally I would prefer this to be a preferences option but I've never seen any support for the idea expressed by GIMP devs. (Though I haven't exactly been tracking it, either.) However, didn't somebody make a plug-in that calls the Export command then resets the image's dirty flag? It does not replace the existing Export command but it would save you the extra prompt when closing the window. On a tangent (feel free to split this), I typically run GIMP in single-window mode and I would really like an option that if more than one image is open in SWM, closing the window will ALWAYS prompt if you want to do this, regardless of whether those images are saved. (Analogous to Firefox prompting if you want to close a window that has multiple open tabs on it.) -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Thu, Feb 4, 2016 at 12:30 AM, allthattotell wrote: > "we need to put it because users are so dumb that we need to protect them by > this changes" while in reality all users had been doing it this way for years > without complaining about "unsafe" save/export methods that had to change. > > "you are not the target group of gimp, most users of gimp today just export to > dropbox and thats it" well, i dont know whats your focusing group, clearly > companies like adobe ask some of their users what features they want, they > implement some that most will like, they surely dont ask all their users to > change the way they had been doing things for years, but i had a theory "one > dumb developer lost some image permanently by mistake and that moron change > gimp > so he will never made that mistake again, and he is so dumb so it will happen > again for sure, so all the rest users of gimp need to live with the new way, > cause he can do whatever he want with gimp, he develop it" http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html Code of Conduct - Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid repetitive arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks. Here is your official warning for CoC violation. Alex ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I adopted the solution proposed by the devs and stopped using it altogether :o) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>Just wanted to add yet another voice to the "really annoyed" list. >That is all. I came here and other gimp related sites to try to find some solution to always asking settings of exporting/saving an image in jpeg format and to bypass the dialog saying it was unsaved then i read a lot of the complains, i used gimp before and not take to much work to understand the new export by myself in the new version, i kind of "understand" the reasons some developers had make it clear as the reason of changing it. But then start reading things like this "with the new way you are assured to not lost unsaved work by mistake" something about that you can back and save jpg from xfc but not the other way around, anyway, that developers are justifying the change by blaming the users, as in "we need to put it because users are so dumb that we need to protect them by this changes" while in reality all users had been doing it this way for years without complaining about "unsafe" save/export methods that had to change. "you are not the target group of gimp, most users of gimp today just export to dropbox and thats it" well, i dont know whats your focusing group, clearly companies like adobe ask some of their users what features they want, they implement some that most will like, they surely dont ask all their users to change the way they had been doing things for years, but i had a theory "one dumb developer lost some image permanently by mistake and that moron change gimp so he will never made that mistake again, and he is so dumb so it will happen again for sure, so all the rest users of gimp need to live with the new way, cause he can do whatever he want with gimp, he develop it" "if you are only croping and saving, you may not need gimp, use something else" holy crap, when i read this, i know all are lost, had you ever read microsoft saying "windows is not for you try something else" I stop using ubuntu cause developers start alineating people, doing what they wanted because they know what we all wanted, something like that, now i remember that i start using gimp cause i had to, cause it was the only option in ubuntu (even after ubuntu axed it years ago) but now, i dont use ubuntu, in fact i had to search for a distro to use gimp, i came hear looking for a solution to one problem, like i do years ago with ubuntu, and i get the same repsonse that ubutu developers give years ago "If you dont like it, dont use it" well, i had not used ubuntu in yeras and probably will never do again, and all my people, that are legion will not use it either, after today gimp its in the black list a long ubuntu -- allthattotell (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I like the new save vs export behavior. The only thing I might change if not already in Gimp in a way in preference to put the export formats i use most often to the top of the drop down list. >I /hate/ the new Save vs. Export behavior. It is completely >non-intuitive to me, it makes my brain stumble every time I try to do >just about any of the things that I do in GIMP on a regular basis, and >it makes most of my workflows take more thought and more button clicks >/ >key presses than they used to. > >Here's just one use case that is completely destroyed by this >change... >Loading a JPG to edit and save back to JPG. Old way: > > 1. "gimp file.jpg". > 2. Make changes. > 3. Type ctrl-s periodically while working to save progress. > 4. Type ctrl-q. > >New way: > > 1. "gimp file.jpg". > 2. Make changes. >3. Open File menu and select "Overwrite" (no keyboard shortcut for >that!). >4. Periodically type ctrl-e to save further progress (because for >some >inexplicable reason, once you use the "Overwrite" command it >disappears and is replaced with the "Export" command which appears >to do exactly the same thing, but /this/ one has a keyboard >shortcut; how does that make sense, exactly)? > 5. Type ctrl-q. >6. GIMP tells me I have unsaved changes, even though I just saved >them >with ctrl-e. > 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit. > >If I can't remember whether I've saved already or not and hit ctrl-e >instead of using File | Overwrite, an export dialog pops up and if I >just accept the file name in it, I am asked to confirm that I want to >replace the file. Then I'm prompted for export settings. This is >absurd. > >Here's another use case that's rendered more complex by this change... >Load an image, edit, and save in a different format. Old way: > > 1. "gimp image.fmt1". > 2. Make changes. > 3. ctrl-shift-s. > 4. Modify extension in save dialog. > 5. ctrl-q. > >New way: > > 1. "gimp image.fmt1". > 2. Make changes. > 3. ctrl-shift-e. (and, mind you, I have to /remember/ that it's >shift-ctrl-e, instead of shift-ctrl-s like in every other freakin' >application I use on either Linux and Windows) > 4. Modify extension in save dialog. > 5. Type ctrl-q. >6. GIMP tells me that I have unsaved changes, even though I just >saved >them with shift-ctrl-e. > 7. Click "Discard Changes" to really exit. > >But what about when I /do/ want to load an image in a non-XCF format >and >then save as XCF? Well, Ctrl-shift-e won't work for that, because the >export dialog doesn't let you export as XCF. I see no advantage >whatsoever to this restriction. So I have to remember that in this one >special case of changing the format of an image, I have to use ctrl-s >instead of ctrl-shift-e. > >There isn't a single thing that I use GIMP for that is made easier or >faster by this interface change. Not one thing. > >I understand that there is "information loss" when an image is saved >as >a format other than XCF. But the fact of the matter is that when all >I'm >doing is retouching an image, which is what I do most with gimp, I >don't >give a flying fig about that "information loss." I just want the image >to save, nice and easy, when I'm done editing it. And I don't want to >have to remember different commands for GIMP than for every other >program I use. And I don't want the command I have to use the first >time >I save an image to be different from the command I use the next time; >that just makes no sense. Because of this particular "feature," I >can't >even make this problem less onerous by swapping the ctrl-s/ctrl-e and >shift-ctrl-s/shift-ctrl-e bindings. Brilliant! > >I understand that the GIMP developers consider XCF a "special" format >which deserves special treatment. Well, I don't, and I'm sure there >are >many, many users like me who don't either. This change is just >sticking >a thumb in all of our eyes. > >You could have done this the LibreOffice way... When you try to save >an >image loaded from a format with information loss, you get a pop-up >warning you and giving you the choice of whether to proceed or save as >XCF (and also giving you the choice to make this warning go away in >the >future and just save like you told it to). This is what LibreOffice >does, e.g., when you load and then try to save a DOC file. > >Or you could have made this change at least a /little/ bit less >onerous >by making the save dialog /default/ to XCF but allowing the user to >edit >the extension to save to another format. But no, if you try to do >that, >it tells you, "Sorry, this dialog only saves in XCF format," and you >have to cancel out of it and export instead. > >In my opinion, this change is a huge, huge step backward in >useability. > > Jonathan Kamens -- billn (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list L
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Thank you kindly for the plugin Akkana that's an excellent solution. Your efforts are greatly appreciated. -- miyuumeow (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Sorry then. By the way, ImageMagick is a very capable software for image resizing. More capable then GIMP I beleive. It has 16 bit color depth by default (and can do even floating point) and a number of high quality computation algoritms for resampling images to choose from. Sometimes it's faster to type some command line, than finding the way through the GUI. And I do use GIMP either. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > From: mell...@openmailbox.org > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 22:07:07 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Richard writes: > > > Such as when I'm > > downscaling digital photos for uploading to the Internet. > > Did you try ImageMagick/GraphicsMagick for that? It's a way faster and > richer in opportunities. And there's no save/export problem. Why live > with a problem that is so easy to eliminate? Completely eliminate. Do > you eat spaghetti with a spoon? > Because considering how often I actually encounter it isn't really a big deal? And I do need GIMP for other tasks. And I'm not in the mood for spaghetti right now -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>No warranty or guarantee implied, but for people who find themselves >bugged by the Save/Export split, this may be a workable solution. ...And there still exists my patch http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?revision=1813&view=co which totally disables save/export behaviour for gimp 2.8. I even package Gimp for Debian Sid with that patch here (add to /etc/apt/sources.list): deb http://vmx.yourcmc.ru/var/debian/ unstable/ -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Richard writes: > Such as when I'm > downscaling digital photos for uploading to the Internet. Did you try ImageMagick/GraphicsMagick for that? It's a way faster and richer in opportunities. And there's no save/export problem. Why live with a problem that is so easy to eliminate? Completely eliminate. Do you eat spaghetti with a spoon? ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Mon, 3 Nov 2014 14:47:57 -0500 > From: ptilopt...@gmail.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > * Richard [11-03-14 13:27]: > > > > There's only one "problem" with the current model: I, for one, would love an option to suppress the unsaved changes prompt in the event that I'm working on a simple image file that is exported to a standard file format and has no XCF associated with it. Such as when I'm downscaling digital photos for uploading to the Internet. > > BUT, you are using a tool which is not build nor intended for that > audience, so you adjust or use a different tool. > -- Workflow preferences aside, the tool in question nonetheless does a good job with what I'm trying to use it for, which saves me from having to go find another tool for the same job. (Tangent: I have a [literal] swiss army knife and what's the function I use most from it? The scissors.) -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Tue, 04 Nov 2014, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > Do you really think arrogance and sarcasm helps deescalating the problem? > > No, and that's why I'm kindly asking you to refrain from emails like > this one in your further contributions to GIMP's mailing lists. Thank > you. [...] > For the record, I'm not going to wear a mask of grave seriousness in a > public mailing list. This is not a corporation. It's a free software For the record, I am the *last* who is asking for grave seriousness, I agree that in a volunteer project sarcasm, irony, and fun should be present (and I am fighting against Debian's move to abolish that!). My email was about you ignoring the issue. That is all. But you didn't get it. Norbert PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 4:45 PM, Norbert Preining wrote: > On 2014/11/02, at 22:22, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > If there were any, wouldn't you be able to see fireworks from pretty > much any part of Earth? :) > > Do you really think arrogance and sarcasm helps deescalating the problem? No, and that's why I'm kindly asking you to refrain from emails like this one in your further contributions to GIMP's mailing lists. Thank you. > You seem to be very Gnome-ish in your development: "We have commit rights, > so piss off!" I don't think that my personal opinion on the matter is any important, but if you actually want to know what I think, may I suggest that you spare ~1K of subscribers their precious time and contact me off-list? For the record, I'm not going to wear a mask of grave seriousness in a public mailing list. This is not a corporation. It's a free software project. I hope you can deal with that. Alex ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* Richard [11-03-14 13:27]: > > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > > From: mell...@openmailbox.org > > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:06:54 +0200 > > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > > > Everybody who prefers to lose information when exporting the work to jpg > > instead of saving it and posesses the skill of reading could find in the > > manual the way to remap the hotleys. No problem to discuss. > > > > There's only one "problem" with the current model: I, for one, would love an > option to suppress the unsaved changes prompt in the event that I'm working > on a simple image file that is exported to a standard file format and has no > XCF associated with it. Such as when I'm downscaling digital photos for > uploading to the Internet. BUT, you are using a tool which is not build nor intended for that audience, so you adjust or use a different tool. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > From: mell...@openmailbox.org > Date: Sun, 2 Nov 2014 16:06:54 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Everybody who prefers to lose information when exporting the work to jpg > instead of saving it and posesses the skill of reading could find in the > manual the way to remap the hotleys. No problem to discuss. > There's only one "problem" with the current model: I, for one, would love an option to suppress the unsaved changes prompt in the event that I'm working on a simple image file that is exported to a standard file format and has no XCF associated with it. Such as when I'm downscaling digital photos for uploading to the Internet. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* Melleus [11-02-14 09:08]: > Everybody who prefers to lose information when exporting the work to jpg > instead of saving it and posesses the skill of reading could find in the > manual the way to remap the hotleys. No problem to discuss. Ability to post email != Intelligence -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Everybody who prefers to lose information when exporting the work to jpg instead of saving it and posesses the skill of reading could find in the manual the way to remap the hotleys. No problem to discuss. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> On 2014/11/02, at 22:22, Alexandre Prokoudine > wrote: > > If there were any, wouldn't you be able to see fireworks from pretty > much any part of Earth? :) Do you really think arrogance and sarcasm helps deescalating the problem? You seem to be very Gnome-ish in your development: "We have commit rights, so piss off!" Good way to go forward, congratulations! Norbert PREINING, Norbert http://www.preining.info JAIST, Japan TeX Live & Debian Developer GPG: 0x860CDC13 fp: F7D8 A928 26E3 16A1 9FA0 ACF0 6CAC A448 860C DC13 > > > Alex > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sun, Nov 2, 2014 at 3:35 AM, miyuumeow wrote: > So my question to the developers is: > Has there been any futher developments to remedy this issue? If there were any, wouldn't you be able to see fireworks from pretty much any part of Earth? :) Alex ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* miyuumeow [11-01-14 20:36]: > >I /hate/ the new Save vs. Export behavior. It is completely > >non-intuitive to me, it makes my brain stumble every time I try to do > >just about any of the things that I do in GIMP on a regular basis, and > >it makes most of my workflows take more thought and more button clicks > > I love the Gimp and have been a very happy Gimp user since 2004's v 2.0 when I > changed to Ubuntu 4.10. So with over 10 years experience as a Gimp user behind > me I too am completely frustrated and perplexed by these changes. Similarly, I > face the same workflow problems as Jonathan Kamens' 2012-05-03 00:45:16 > posting > and find that what was once pleasureable and easy job of creating and editing > png files is now an arduous task. I've been battling with 2.8 for over a year > and things are not getting any easier. > > So my question to the developers is: > Has there been any futher developments to remedy this issue? Do you really read the list, or just this one time? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>I /hate/ the new Save vs. Export behavior. It is completely >non-intuitive to me, it makes my brain stumble every time I try to do >just about any of the things that I do in GIMP on a regular basis, and >it makes most of my workflows take more thought and more button clicks I love the Gimp and have been a very happy Gimp user since 2004's v 2.0 when I changed to Ubuntu 4.10. So with over 10 years experience as a Gimp user behind me I too am completely frustrated and perplexed by these changes. Similarly, I face the same workflow problems as Jonathan Kamens' 2012-05-03 00:45:16 posting and find that what was once pleasureable and easy job of creating and editing png files is now an arduous task. I've been battling with 2.8 for over a year and things are not getting any easier. So my question to the developers is: Has there been any futher developments to remedy this issue? -- miyuumeow (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Fri, 10 Oct 2014 16:40:59 +1100 > From: p...@pricom.com.au > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Alex, > > > On 2014-10-10 16:23, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > > 10 окт. 2014 г. 4:25 "chefebe" > > написал: > >> > >> In violation of good forum behavior > > > >> I love gimp. I am indebted to the > >> creators and maintainers. > > > > Thanks, but first offense is still first offence. > > > OK, is it first offense or first offence? ie Yankeeism or real English? > > P. > ...is it being used as a noun or a verb? ;D -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Alex, On 2014-10-10 16:23, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: 10 окт. 2014 г. 4:25 "chefebe" написал: In violation of good forum behavior I love gimp. I am indebted to the creators and maintainers. Thanks, but first offense is still first offence. OK, is it first offense or first offence? ie Yankeeism or real English? P. -- Philip Rhoades GPO Box 3411 Sydney NSW 2001 Australia E-mail: p...@pricom.com.au ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
10 окт. 2014 г. 4:25 "chefebe" написал: > > In violation of good forum behavior > I love gimp. I am indebted to the > creators and maintainers. Thanks, but first offense is still first offence. Alex ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/09/2014 05:38 PM, Bob Long wrote: chefebe wrote on 10/10/14 10:25: In violation of good forum behavior I am commenting on this eternal, and very old thread because that is all I have the bandwidth to do. I also hate the export feature. I even keep an old Linux system around that has 2.6 on it so I can quickly do simple edits because of this annoyance. I finally decided to google "gimp hate 'You can use this dialog' " and behold, a plethora of painful and ignored requests were returned. I would love the option to choose which way to have it behave. Does that not satisfy both camps? Did your searching reveal this possibility? http://www.shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ (I've not used it myself; I'm happy enough with the save/export distinction.) I too am unable to understand why this is such a problem, but I am replying to Bob Long's comment because my name is Bob Short and I can't resist. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/09/2014 08:25 PM, chefebe wrote: > I even keep an old Linux system around that has 2.6 on it so I > can quickly do simple edits because of this annoyance. I don't believe you. It's as simple as that. Video and independent testimony, or it didn't happen. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
chefebe wrote on 10/10/14 10:25: > In violation of good forum behavior I am commenting on this eternal, and very > old thread because that is all I have the bandwidth to do. I also hate the > export feature. I even keep an old Linux system around that has 2.6 on it so > I > can quickly do simple edits because of this annoyance. I finally decided to > google "gimp hate 'You can use this dialog' " and behold, a plethora of > painful > and ignored requests were returned. I would love the option to choose which > way > to have it behave. Does that not satisfy both camps? Did your searching reveal this possibility? http://www.shallowsky.com/software/gimp-save/ (I've not used it myself; I'm happy enough with the save/export distinction.) -- Bob Long ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Oh. My. Fucking. God. Sent from my iPod > On Oct 9, 2014, at 8:25 PM, chefebe wrote: > > In violation of good forum behavior I am commenting on this eternal, and very > old thread because that is all I have the bandwidth to do. I also hate the > export feature. I even keep an old Linux system around that has 2.6 on it so > I > can quickly do simple edits because of this annoyance. I finally decided to > google "gimp hate 'You can use this dialog' " and behold, a plethora of > painful > and ignored requests were returned. I would love the option to choose which > way > to have it behave. Does that not satisfy both camps? > > Now that my complaint is voiced, I must add: I love gimp. I am indebted to > the > creators and maintainers. It is free and I have done nothing to contribute to > it. I am also not a professional photo editor, just a casual user. My uses > usually involve modifying screenshots for presentations at my technology > company > or swapping the heads around on family photos for a laugh. May gimp live > long! > (even without a majority of us upgrading past 2.6) > > > > -- > chefebe (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
In violation of good forum behavior I am commenting on this eternal, and very old thread because that is all I have the bandwidth to do. I also hate the export feature. I even keep an old Linux system around that has 2.6 on it so I can quickly do simple edits because of this annoyance. I finally decided to google "gimp hate 'You can use this dialog' " and behold, a plethora of painful and ignored requests were returned. I would love the option to choose which way to have it behave. Does that not satisfy both camps? Now that my complaint is voiced, I must add: I love gimp. I am indebted to the creators and maintainers. It is free and I have done nothing to contribute to it. I am also not a professional photo editor, just a casual user. My uses usually involve modifying screenshots for presentations at my technology company or swapping the heads around on family photos for a laugh. May gimp live long! (even without a majority of us upgrading past 2.6) -- chefebe (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list List archives: https://mail.gnome.org/archives/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Just downloaded GIMP 2.8.8 and while I don't know who did it, a big THANK YOU for this item on the list: > Overview of Changes from GIMP 2.8.6 to GIMP 2.8.8 > = > > GUI: > - Add links to jump directly to Save/Export from the > Export/Save file extension warning dialogs > > That's been my biggest peeve about the warning message for some time :) -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Replied offlist. No, he doesn't. His last email was his last. On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 7:04 AM, Burnie West wrote: > On 11/04/2013 05:37 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: >> >> Maderios has already been unsubscribed for repetitive violation of the >> code of conduct. > > ?? - but M still posts? > > > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 11/04/2013 05:37 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: Maderios has already been unsubscribed for repetitive violation of the code of conduct. ?? - but M still posts? ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Tue, Nov 5, 2013 at 5:22 AM, Stephen Allen wrote: > On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 04:53:29PM +0100, maderios wrote: >> On 11/04/2013 02:30 AM, dksill wrote: >> >I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save >> >unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. >> > >> Hi >> It's a "very old" story... *Four years ago* Gimp developer Martin >> Nordholts explained on his blog: >> "A lot of people over at GIMPUSERS.com want the old save and >> "export" mechanism back. The conclusion to draw from that is that >> they are not part of the user group we are targeting. We are not >> trying to make GIMP into an excellent JPEG touchup application, we >> are making GIMP into a high-end photo manipulation application where >> most of the work is done in XCF." >> http://www.chromecode.com/2009/09/reactions-on-gimp-270.html >> Therefore we, professional (or advanced users), are not "the user >> group (they) are targeting... Martin Nordholts forgot other image >> formats, better than jpeg because they are not destructive: png, >> tiff. These three formats are very used in professional world but >> Martin Nordholts an gimp team sadly ignore it... >> Greetings >> -- > > This subject has been worn out - Please stop it maderios! Professional image > editors don't work in jpeg format. It's an end use format. Think non > destructive > editing. Maderios has already been unsubscribed for repetitive violation of the code of conduct. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Mon, Nov 04, 2013 at 04:53:29PM +0100, maderios wrote: > On 11/04/2013 02:30 AM, dksill wrote: > >I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save > >unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. > > > Hi > It's a "very old" story... *Four years ago* Gimp developer Martin > Nordholts explained on his blog: > "A lot of people over at GIMPUSERS.com want the old save and > "export" mechanism back. The conclusion to draw from that is that > they are not part of the user group we are targeting. We are not > trying to make GIMP into an excellent JPEG touchup application, we > are making GIMP into a high-end photo manipulation application where > most of the work is done in XCF." > http://www.chromecode.com/2009/09/reactions-on-gimp-270.html > Therefore we, professional (or advanced users), are not "the user > group (they) are targeting... Martin Nordholts forgot other image > formats, better than jpeg because they are not destructive: png, > tiff. These three formats are very used in professional world but > Martin Nordholts an gimp team sadly ignore it... > Greetings > -- This subject has been worn out - Please stop it maderios! Professional image editors don't work in jpeg format. It's an end use format. Think non destructive editing. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Mon, 4 Nov 2013 02:30:11 +0100 > From: for...@gimpusers.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > CC: t...@gimpusers.com > Subject: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save > unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. > There are certain advantages to having a clear separation between XCF and non-XCF file formats For me, though, the real productivity killer is the 'export and quit' scenario, where GIMP asks you if you want to Save (to XCF) changes. I would love the ability to suppress that prompt for images that are (1) recently exported with no further changes and (2) not associated with a saved XCF file. Also, the ability for that prompt to have a 'Save' AND 'export' command could be a plus, too. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 11/04/2013 02:30 AM, dksill wrote: I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. Hi It's a "very old" story... *Four years ago* Gimp developer Martin Nordholts explained on his blog: "A lot of people over at GIMPUSERS.com want the old save and "export" mechanism back. The conclusion to draw from that is that they are not part of the user group we are targeting. We are not trying to make GIMP into an excellent JPEG touchup application, we are making GIMP into a high-end photo manipulation application where most of the work is done in XCF." http://www.chromecode.com/2009/09/reactions-on-gimp-270.html Therefore we, professional (or advanced users), are not "the user group (they) are targeting... Martin Nordholts forgot other image formats, better than jpeg because they are not destructive: png, tiff. These three formats are very used in professional world but Martin Nordholts an gimp team sadly ignore it... Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I fully agree with the first post of this blog. the question whether to save unsaved work spoils the whole efficiency to quickly edit a file. -- dksill (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Thu, Oct 10, 2013 at 09:02:27PM -0500, Thomas Widlar wrote: > Good. > +1 ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Sat, 12 Oct 2013 10:29:29 -0600 > From: johnme...@pueblocomputing.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > When did Ted Stryker become part of the development team? > If that's an Airplane reference, I don't get it -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/12/2013 6:56 AM, Andrew & Bridget wrote: On 12/10/2013 13:23, maderios wrote: I save at least every milestone, sometimes every step Surely this backup's the reason why the software works as it does now, as saving each step would mean saving to the native file format (ie .xcf) and then exporting to the finished required format ( .png, .jpg etc) ! When did Ted Stryker become part of the development team? ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Andrew & Bridget writes: > On 12/10/2013 13:23, maderios wrote: >> I save at least every milestone, sometimes every step > Surely this backup's the reason why the software works as it does now, Bingo! ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 12/10/2013 13:23, maderios wrote: I save at least every milestone, sometimes every step Surely this backup's the reason why the software works as it does now, as saving each step would mean saving to the native file format (ie .xcf) and then exporting to the finished required format ( .png, .jpg etc) ! ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/12/2013 01:44 PM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: On 12 Oct 2013 19:23, "maderios" mailto:mader...@gmail.com>> wrote: > > On 10/11/2013 10:20 PM, Melleus wrote: > >> P.S. If you really prefer accidentally loosing your information you can >> surely redefine hot keys. >> > Hi > This is a false problem. Since last 14 years I've used all versions of Gimp, I never lost my work. First rule : save it periodically. > > -- > Maderios How is it false when you provide just one example (yourself)? And the email you replied to gives a presumably true account which shows it has been a problem for him/her? I was not clear enough, sorry... Generally speaking, in any job, you must follow certain rules. Regarding editing or creation of images, the first rule is not to wait until the end to save the work. Personally, I save at least every milestone, sometimes every step. I keep several versions of the project, then I can remove them. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/11/2013 10:20 PM, Melleus wrote: P.S. If you really prefer accidentally loosing your information you can surely redefine hot keys. Hi This is a false problem. Since last 14 years I've used all versions of Gimp, I never lost my work. First rule : save it periodically. -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I "work with the tool" from its version numbered 2.4. And I use it primarily as a photo processing tool. I can say that the save/export feature is a very logical one from my point of view as I can be sure that I have ALL THE INFORMATION in the SAVED image as long as I can have only PARTIAL INFORMATION in the EXPORTED image. Have you ever got to redo some hours work when you think that you saved the image but in fact you really exported it only? The features that I really miss are the high-bit color depths and better CMYK and Lab colorspaces support. And I beleive we won't get them faster if we mess the developers in teapot tempests instead of giving them our appreciation. P.S. If you really prefer accidentaly loosing your information you can surely redefine hot keys. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/10/2013 12:56 PM, Andrew & Bridget wrote: On 10/10/2013 11:17, Helen wrote: Although I also hate the new feature which restricts what I can do, I don't think taking a poll is a useful idea. It seems to me the developers ought to be aware, as everyone else is, that this was a bad move, that many (who knows whether most, but certainly many) GIMP users hate it, and just allow users the same choice we had for so many years. If there is a down side to allowing users to make this choice, I haven't heard what that is. I am very sure the developers are aware 'you' feel this is a bad move, not all 'GIMP' users would agree with you. What I find very strange with this thread, is that many repliers to the thread (I am not meaning you particularly) are demanding change back, but the developers are wishing to take the project in a direction of their liking, which some people really do not understand. Hi Info : in the Linux/GNU software world, Gimp seems to be an exception. Regarding other softwares, developers improve the tool thanks to feedback from users, especially professional users who spend a lot of time working with the tool. Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Good. On 10/10/2013 8:54 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: You've just banned yourself from the mailing list. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Fri, Oct 11, 2013 at 1:37 AM, vitalif wrote: >>Why don't the haters unsubscribe instead? > > Of course because we don't hate the thread in our inbox, we just hate the > "feature"! :) > >>Let me repeat it for you: we will *not* make the save/export >>separation a configurable option. > > Thanks, in fact I've understood your point as early as before I've posted my > first hate speech. You've just banned yourself from the mailing list. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>Why don't the haters unsubscribe instead? Of course because we don't hate the thread in our inbox, we just hate the "feature"! :) >Let me repeat it for you: we will *not* make the save/export >separation a configurable option. Thanks, in fact I've understood your point as early as before I've posted my first hate speech. And of course I had no hope for any change in your mind posting the last message :) -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/10/2013 11:20 PM, vitalif wrote: We are given this software by the we can not demand anything Of course! And the best of it is that the license is free so you can at least patch it for yourself [just like I did]. But my idea was that it's generally a good idea to listen to your users even if you develop an opensource project. ) What I really 'hate' seeing this title turn up in my 'inbox'. If you 'hate' it maybe you'll just unsubscribe from it? :-) Why don't the haters unsubscribe instead? Let me repeat it for you: we will *not* make the save/export separation a configurable option. This has been said several times, and no matter how many useless mails accumulate in this thread, the answer will still be *not*. Regards, --Mitch ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>We are given this software by the we can not demand anything Of course! And the best of it is that the license is free so you can at least patch it for yourself [just like I did]. But my idea was that it's generally a good idea to listen to your users even if you develop an opensource project. ) >What I really 'hate' seeing this title turn up in my 'inbox'. If you 'hate' it maybe you'll just unsubscribe from it? :-) -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 10/10/2013 11:17, Helen wrote: Although I also hate the new feature which restricts what I can do, I don't think taking a poll is a useful idea. It seems to me the developers ought to be aware, as everyone else is, that this was a bad move, that many (who knows whether most, but certainly many) GIMP users hate it, and just allow users the same choice we had for so many years. If there is a down side to allowing users to make this choice, I haven't heard what that is. I am very sure the developers are aware 'you' feel this is a bad move, not all 'GIMP' users would agree with you. What I find very strange with this thread, is that many repliers to the thread (I am not meaning you particularly) are demanding change back, but the developers are wishing to take the project in a direction of their liking, which some people really do not understand. Have you paid an money for this software ? We are given this software by the developers we can not demand anything, we may ask, but it does mean we get, and it has been stated many many times now the export option is here to stay. (http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/GIMP_UI_Redesign). 15. Disclaimer of Warranty. THERE IS NO WARRANTY FOR THE PROGRAM, TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY APPLICABLE LAW. EXCEPT WHEN OTHERWISE STATED IN WRITING THE COPYRIGHT HOLDERS AND/OR OTHER PARTIES PROVIDE THE **PROGRAM "AS IS" WITHOUT WARRANTY OF ANY KIND**, EITHER EXPRESSED OR IMPLIED, INCLUDING, BUT NOT LIMITED TO, THE IMPLIED WARRANTIES OF MERCHANTABILITY AND FITNESS FOR A PARTICULAR PURPOSE. THE ENTIRE RISK AS TO THE QUALITY AND PERFORMANCE OF THE PROGRAM IS WITH YOU. SHOULD THE PROGRAM PROVE DEFECTIVE, YOU ASSUME THE COST OF ALL NECESSARY SERVICING, REPAIR OR CORRECTION. What I really 'hate' seeing this title turn up in my 'inbox'. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Helen (etter...@gmail.com) wrote: > If there is a down side to > allowing users to make this choice, I haven't heard what that is. Clearly adding the choice option would work against the expressly stated goal of the change: http://gui.gimp.org/index.php/Save_%2B_export_specification And no, this is very much not new. Bye, Simon -- si...@budig.de http://simon.budig.de/ ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Although I also hate the new feature which restricts what I can do, I don't think taking a poll is a useful idea. It seems to me the developers ought to be aware, as everyone else is, that this was a bad move, that many (who knows whether most, but certainly many) GIMP users hate it, and just allow users the same choice we had for so many years. If there is a down side to allowing users to make this choice, I haven't heard what that is. On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 5:07 PM, vitalif wrote: > >Or you could just remap the keyboard shortcuts. > > I don't just want to remap the shortcuts. Because (1) sometimes I use the > shortcut and sometimes I use the menu item (and sometimes it's "Save as", > not > just "Save") and (2) I can't save to XCF using the remapped "Export". And I > don't like pythonish save/export extensions, either, because I don't want a > separate command for "normal save". > > What constructive actions can be applied? I think these are: > > 1) Just make a configuration setting for enabling/disabling the format > restriction for Save. > > 2) I think that even disabling the restriction on a permanent basis without > adding any settings also won't harm anyone. Those who like Export will be > able > to still use Export, and those who dislike Export will be happy with normal > Save. > > 3) Make an online poll on some well-known site (so a sufficient amount of > users > could vote) to understand real proportion between those who like and those > who > dislike the save/export feature. Something like "What option is better?" > with > the choices like: "Only one Save command", "Save + Export, without > restricting > the Save formats", "Totally separated Save and Export (with Save being > XCF-only)", and "Don't care". > > -- > vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > -- Helen Etters using Linux, suse12.3 ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sat, Oct 5, 2013 at 1:07 AM, vitalif wrote: > What constructive actions can be applied? I think these are: > > 1) Just make a configuration setting for enabling/disabling the format > restriction for Save. > > 2) I think that even disabling the restriction on a permanent basis without > adding any settings also won't harm anyone. Those who like Export will be able > to still use Export, and those who dislike Export will be happy with normal > Save. > > 3) Make an online poll on some well-known site (so a sufficient amount of > users > could vote) to understand real proportion between those who like and those who > dislike the save/export feature. Something like "What option is better?" with > the choices like: "Only one Save command", "Save + Export, without restricting > the Save formats", "Totally separated Save and Export (with Save being > XCF-only)", and "Don't care". The code of conduct clearly suggests not posting repetitive arguments. None of your suggestions are new. We already provide answers to all of them. I understand your frustration, but this is an official warning. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>Or you could just remap the keyboard shortcuts. I don't just want to remap the shortcuts. Because (1) sometimes I use the shortcut and sometimes I use the menu item (and sometimes it's "Save as", not just "Save") and (2) I can't save to XCF using the remapped "Export". And I don't like pythonish save/export extensions, either, because I don't want a separate command for "normal save". What constructive actions can be applied? I think these are: 1) Just make a configuration setting for enabling/disabling the format restriction for Save. 2) I think that even disabling the restriction on a permanent basis without adding any settings also won't harm anyone. Those who like Export will be able to still use Export, and those who dislike Export will be happy with normal Save. 3) Make an online poll on some well-known site (so a sufficient amount of users could vote) to understand real proportion between those who like and those who dislike the save/export feature. Something like "What option is better?" with the choices like: "Only one Save command", "Save + Export, without restricting the Save formats", "Totally separated Save and Export (with Save being XCF-only)", and "Don't care". -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Or you could just remap the keyboard shortcuts. On 10/4/2013 10:45 AM, Eduard Braun wrote: Hi all, I don't get it! This discussion is going on for months now, constantly spamming the mailing list. Still I don't see even the slightest willingness to compromise on either side. It seems you are carrying out a war with hardened fronts on the back of GIMP which will give neither side any sort of satisfaction. It seems clear to me now, that this is a matter of principle: Some people like the separation of "save" and "export" functionalities, others don't. It seems unlikely to me, that you can convince either group that the other way round is the way to go. So why don't you just finally implement a setting to easily switch between the two possibilities and finally end this pointless war which only damages GIMP's reputation? I hope, all of you finally get over this and start to find a solution instead of clashing swords to the end of days. Regards Eduard ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Hi all, I don't get it! This discussion is going on for months now, constantly spamming the mailing list. Still I don't see even the slightest willingness to compromise on either side. It seems you are carrying out a war with hardened fronts on the back of GIMP which will give neither side any sort of satisfaction. It seems clear to me now, that this is a matter of principle: Some people like the separation of "save" and "export" functionalities, others don't. It seems unlikely to me, that you can convince either group that the other way round is the way to go. So why don't you just finally implement a setting to easily switch between the two possibilities and finally end this pointless war which only damages GIMP's reputation? I hope, all of you finally get over this and start to find a solution instead of clashing swords to the end of days. Regards Eduard ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>And in particular, at "Please make sure that you add value to the >discussion, avoid repetitive arguments, flamewars, trolling, and >personal attacks." In this particular case, I think it's the second paragraph that adds some value... -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Fri, Oct 4, 2013 at 4:41 PM, vitalif wrote: > And I highly suspect that nobody will really listen to these words in any case > (no matter if I would phrase them like a troll or like an elf). Oh, we listen all the time. It's the kind of action we take afterwards that matters. In this particular case I've an inclination to once again point at the code of conduct: http://www.gimp.org/mail_lists.html And in particular, at "Please make sure that you add value to the discussion, avoid repetitive arguments, flamewars, trolling, and personal attacks." Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>...then you should already be aware that how you choose to phrase >something has a very strong impact on how everyone else perceives you. >:) If you look like a troll I think sometimes it's not too bad being a troll... I'm sure the simplification of all the same use cases could be achieved without breaking anyone's experience - for example it would be sufficient to just add "export" with all formats supported as an "additional save state" for those who want "non-destructive rasterization without closing the previous document", and to not remove any formats from the "save" menu for those who don't want it. And I'm sure it's enough to just ask for the closing confirmation if an image is not saved to XCF for fool-proofness... And I highly suspect that nobody will really listen to these words in any case (no matter if I would phrase them like a troll or like an elf). Because it seems authors have a "determined vision" and want to force everyone to that vision. So because of that suspicion I talk like a troll, yeah :-( -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Thu, 3 Oct 2013 21:48:31 +0200 > From: for...@gimpusers.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > CC: t...@gimpusers.com > Subject: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > >Your social skills surely reflect your intelligence level. > > Ha-ha. I just say that what I think and don't feel shy about specific words :) ...then you should already be aware that how you choose to phrase something has a very strong impact on how everyone else perceives you. :) If you look like a troll -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>Your social skills surely reflect your intelligence level. Ha-ha. I just say that what I think and don't feel shy about specific words :) Of course I don't undervalue the incredibly good mission that gimp developers are performing in general. Nothing personal, of course. -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Thu, Oct 3, 2013 at 10:54 PM, Patrick Shanahan wrote: > * vitalif [10-03-13 12:41]: >> I want to say two things: >> >> 1) The new behaviour is a TOTAL PIECE OF SHIT. And the authors are just >> MORONS >> because they argue that if you dislike it, you are an idiot, "misuse" gimp >> and >> should only use MSPAINT because of a low IQ. Just like it was with the >> single-window mode, yeah. >> >> 2) But - Good news, everyone! That bevaviour really fucked me up and I got to >> the code and patched it. And the patch to DISABLE that piece of shit is very >> simple - you just need to comment out two if()'s in >> app/plug-in/gimppluginmanager-file.c (see below or get it from >> http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co). >> > > Your social skills surely reflect your intelligence level. May I suggest that we avoid personal confrontation? Breaking the code of conduct by Mr. Filippov was bad enough. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* vitalif [10-03-13 12:41]: > I want to say two things: > > 1) The new behaviour is a TOTAL PIECE OF SHIT. And the authors are just MORONS > because they argue that if you dislike it, you are an idiot, "misuse" gimp and > should only use MSPAINT because of a low IQ. Just like it was with the > single-window mode, yeah. > > 2) But - Good news, everyone! That bevaviour really fucked me up and I got to > the code and patched it. And the patch to DISABLE that piece of shit is very > simple - you just need to comment out two if()'s in > app/plug-in/gimppluginmanager-file.c (see below or get it from > http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co). > Your social skills surely reflect your intelligence level. -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA @ptilopteri http://en.opensuse.orgopenSUSE Community Memberfacebook/ptilopteri http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Oops the forum messed up with my diff. So again, either get it from http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co or download as an attachment. Attachments: * http://www.gimpusers.com/system/attachments/72/original/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff -- vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums) ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
[Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I want to say two things:
1) The new behaviour is a TOTAL PIECE OF SHIT. And the authors are just MORONS
because they argue that if you dislike it, you are an idiot, "misuse" gimp and
should only use MSPAINT because of a low IQ. Just like it was with the
single-window mode, yeah.
2) But - Good news, everyone! That bevaviour really fucked me up and I got to
the code and patched it. And the patch to DISABLE that piece of shit is very
simple - you just need to comment out two if()'s in
app/plug-in/gimppluginmanager-file.c (see below or get it from
http://svn.yourcmc.ru/viewvc.py/vitalif/trunk/scripts/patch-gimp-unite-save_export.diff?view=co).
After patching, Gimp still suggests you to save the opened *.png or anything in
XCF on Ctrl-S, but it does so only the FIRST time, and ALLOWS to actually select
any other format.
--- gimp-2.8.6.orig/app/plug-in/gimppluginmanager-file.c
+++ gimp-2.8.6/app/plug-in/gimppluginmanager-file.c
@@ -136,13 +136,13 @@ gimp_plug_in_manager_register_save_handl
gimp_plug_in_procedure_set_file_proc (file_proc,
extensions, prefixes, NULL);
- if (file_procedure_in_group (file_proc, FILE_PROCEDURE_GROUP_SAVE))
+ //if (file_procedure_in_group (file_proc, FILE_PROCEDURE_GROUP_SAVE))
{
if (! g_slist_find (manager->save_procs, file_proc))
manager->save_procs = g_slist_prepend (manager->save_procs, file_proc);
}
- if (file_procedure_in_group (file_proc, FILE_PROCEDURE_GROUP_EXPORT))
+ //if (file_procedure_in_group (file_proc, FILE_PROCEDURE_GROUP_EXPORT))
{
if (! g_slist_find (manager->export_procs, file_proc))
manager->export_procs = g_slist_prepend (manager->export_procs,
file_proc);
--
vitalif (via www.gimpusers.com/forums)
___
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Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 14:03:04 -0700 > From: k...@anechoicmedia.com > To: akk...@shallowsky.com > CC: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > I find it oddly unsettling how the developers have consistently turned a > deaf ear to this important issue by not making it possible in the > settings to allow GIMP users to select the old way of "saving as" and > exporting content instead of being forced into one way of doing > things...which leads me to wonder if there might be a hidden agenda of > some sort? I totally understand this impression (it's not just save/export where this "deaf ear" happens), but the fact remains that the decision was made long before that. Documentation for the Save/Export distinction (and the decision to implement it) goes all the way back to March, 2009: - http://gui.gimp.org/index.php?title=Save_%2B_export_specification&oldid=543 GIMP 2.8.0 was released in 2012 -- a full Three Years Later. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
I too have been following this thread since it's inception (not as empirically as Ms Peck though) and see the same exact complaints come up time and again I find it oddly unsettling how the developers have consistently turned a deaf ear to this important issue by not making it possible in the settings to allow GIMP users to select the old way of "saving as" and exporting content instead of being forced into one way of doing things...which leads me to wonder if there might be a hidden agenda of some sort? also a question for Akkana: do you still have that script available that simulates the old style of save as and export? :) kc On 08/13/2013 10:14 AM, Akkana Peck wrote: Oon-Ee Ng writes: Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or two dozen as well. In case people are curious: I've been saving posts on this topic since the beginning. Initially I was curious how the weight of opinion would balance out, and once I got started I just kept saving them. My count isn't exact: I didn't save messages I judged to be "too far off topic" (like the recent Excel discussion), but that's an opinion call; and my archive also includes email and blog comments I've received regarding my save-export-clean plug-in, so it has a few messages that haven't appeared on these lists. The current count is 1414, not including this message. I never tried to classify individual messages as for or against the change, so I have no counts for that. ...Akkana ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/13/2013 11:48 AM, maderios wrote: ...Akkana ___ That's all I can say Regards -- Maderios Ah-h-hwish it were so ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/13/2013 07:14 PM, Akkana Peck wrote: Oon-Ee Ng writes: Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or two dozen as well. In case people are curious: I've been saving posts on this topic since the beginning. Initially I was curious how the weight of opinion would balance out, and once I got started I just kept saving them. My count isn't exact: I didn't save messages I judged to be "too far off topic" (like the recent Excel discussion), but that's an opinion call; and my archive also includes email and blog comments I've received regarding my save-export-clean plug-in, so it has a few messages that haven't appeared on these lists. The current count is 1414, not including this message. I never tried to classify individual messages as for or against the change, so I have no counts for that. ...Akkana ___ Hi Akkana Thanks for your "save-export-clean" plug-in which is very useful. That's all I can say Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
Oon-Ee Ng writes: > Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a > dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. > Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or > two dozen as well. In case people are curious: I've been saving posts on this topic since the beginning. Initially I was curious how the weight of opinion would balance out, and once I got started I just kept saving them. My count isn't exact: I didn't save messages I judged to be "too far off topic" (like the recent Excel discussion), but that's an opinion call; and my archive also includes email and blog comments I've received regarding my save-export-clean plug-in, so it has a few messages that haven't appeared on these lists. The current count is 1414, not including this message. I never tried to classify individual messages as for or against the change, so I have no counts for that. ...Akkana ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* Richard Gitschlag [08-13-13 11:26]: > > This single topic has nearly 300 replies by now (if not more), and there > have certainly been dozens of other, smaller topics over time, mostly > clustered around 2.8's launch. It is probably safe to assume there are > over 1,000 posts on the matter in total Certainly possibly > 1000 posts but *many* deviate widely from the subject and *many* repeated admonitions by a very *few* users. So counting post has little weight. And it *is* a *pile* [insert suitable context here]. -1 -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Tue, 13 Aug 2013 13:46:58 +0800 > From: ngoonee.t...@gmail.com > To: mader...@gmail.com > CC: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a > dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. > Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or > two dozen as well. > This single topic has nearly 300 replies by now (if not more), and there have certainly been dozens of other, smaller topics over time, mostly clustered around 2.8's launch. It is probably safe to assume there are over 1,000 posts on the matter in total ...and, of course, +1 to the pile. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
>> [...] I just copy/paste and >> scale as needed but I cannot work on anything else until I anchor it. > >Actually you can also click New layer in the layers dalogue to turn the >floating selection into a layer, and then you can work on other things. > >> Very frustrating when I want to adjust something underneath to match it >> while it is still a separate layer (and I would like to keep it a >> separate layer, too). > >You can indeed. I used to have to go and click the New Layer button every time until I discovered this handy shortcut: Ctrl+Shift+N It makes your floating selection a new layer without having to move away from the target area! (On a similar[?] note, Ctrl+Shift+D is useful for duplicating a layer so you can have an unedited copy and then do something crazy to the other copy.) On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 12:46 AM, Oon-Ee Ng wrote: > On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:08 AM, maderios wrote: > > On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: > >> > >> On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: > >>> > >>> On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: > > When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me > told > that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple > and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. > In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second > rule is violated. > >>> > >>> Hi > >>> The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do > >>> not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But > >>> a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. > >>> You can compare with other software development, like new > >>> Enlightenment (E17 and E18). > >>> It's completely different. The developers and the main developer > >>> (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to > >>> improve the program. > >>> http://www.enlightenment.org/ > >>> > >>> > http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users > >>> > >>> Greetings > >> > >> > >> > >> if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on > >> programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. > >> Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't > >> like as a user as long as: > >> > >> 1. You explain that as a user > >> 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. > > > > Hi > > I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, > > modestly > > Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export > > Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live > in a > > sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that > the > > new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. > > Regards > > > > -- > > Maderios > > Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a > dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. > Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or > two dozen as well. > > Stop imagining your personal opinion to be somehow representative of > the majority, its really quite annoying. Besides, open source > development is not a democracy, so the majority-ness of any opinion is > practically useless. > ___ > gimp-user-list mailing list > List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org > List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list > ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Tue, Aug 13, 2013 at 1:08 AM, maderios wrote: > On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: >> >> On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: >>> >>> On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. >>> >>> Hi >>> The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do >>> not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But >>> a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. >>> You can compare with other software development, like new >>> Enlightenment (E17 and E18). >>> It's completely different. The developers and the main developer >>> (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to >>> improve the program. >>> http://www.enlightenment.org/ >>> >>> http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users >>> >>> Greetings >> >> >> >> if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on >> programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. >> Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't >> like as a user as long as: >> >> 1. You explain that as a user >> 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. > > Hi > I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, > modestly > Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export > Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live in a > sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that the > new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. > Regards > > -- > Maderios Thousands? In all the time I've followed this list I've seen maybe a dozen threads. I believe all of them have your replies in there. Trying to count the number of complainants, I estimate probably one or two dozen as well. Stop imagining your personal opinion to be somehow representative of the majority, its really quite annoying. Besides, open source development is not a democracy, so the majority-ness of any opinion is practically useless. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Mon, 2013-08-12 at 11:14 -0500, Joseph A. Nagy, Jr wrote: > [...] I just copy/paste and > scale as needed but I cannot work on anything else until I anchor it. Actually you can also click New layer in the layers dalogue to turn the floating selection into a layer, and then you can work on other things. > Very frustrating when I want to adjust something underneath to match it > while it is still a separate layer (and I would like to keep it a > separate layer, too). You can indeed. Liam -- Liam Quin - XML Activity Lead, W3C, http://www.w3.org/People/Quin/ Pictures from old books: http://fromoldbooks.org/ Ankh: irc.sorcery.net irc.gnome.org freenode/#xml ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 06:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't like as a user as long as: 1. You explain that as a user 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. Hi I use Enlightenment everyday, I try to help developers if I can, modestly Minority ? Thousands of posts on this list about the problem save export Gimp-2.8, it does not matter of course The developers seem to live in a sealed box, ignoring the image editing reality, ignoring the fact that the new "save export" breaks the rhythm of work. Regards -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> Date: Mon, 12 Aug 2013 11:14:20 -0500 > From: jnagyjr1...@gmail.com > To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > I had meant to send this on-list yesterday...didn't realize my error > until Richard replied off-list. > > Don't forget the 'floating selection' layer that prevents you from > editing any other layer in the image. Excessively frustrating when > you're looking to use one particular image in a variety of ways. That > plus the new save vs. export is very workflow breaking. Right. So if I may correct my previous response then . . . . the one change GIMP ever made which broke my personal workflow in the biggest, ugliest way possible was not 2.8's Save/Export. It was when GIMP 2.4 changed the default click-and-drag select behavior from "float and move selected region of pixels" to "move selection mask only". I was . . . not happy about that. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/11/13 08:41, Richard Gitschlag wrote: On the contrary, this is the dangerous situation... - load file - create complicated selection/path to update part of the image - update that part - export image - quit (and throw the selection away...). IMHO the only safe case is when the image has one singe layer without mask, no channels, no paths, no selections. GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. I had meant to send this on-list yesterday...didn't realize my error until Richard replied off-list. Don't forget the 'floating selection' layer that prevents you from editing any other layer in the image. Excessively frustrating when you're looking to use one particular image in a variety of ways. That plus the new save vs. export is very workflow breaking. Reference Image: http://www.joseph-a-nagy-jr.us/images/other/01.bitsale.xcf The stylized 'B' is the one I'm talking about. I just copy/paste and scale as needed but I cannot work on anything else until I anchor it. Very frustrating when I want to adjust something underneath to match it while it is still a separate layer (and I would like to keep it a separate layer, too). -- Yours in Christ, Joseph A Nagy Jr "Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge, But he who hates correction is stupid." -- Proverbs 12:1 Emails are not formal business letters, whatever businesses may want. Original content CopyFree (F) under the OWL http://copyfree.org/licenses/owl/license.txt ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
* Jernej Simončič [08-12-13 12:02]: > On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:56:22 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > > > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared > > to every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything > > from the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with > > marching ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only > > when you hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect > > is that you can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). > > Everything clipboard-related is pretty broken in Excel. The copied content > is lost if you type something (but here's something funny: if you copy, > then paste, then type something, the copied content is lost; however, if > you then undo twice - undoing both the typing and the pasting, you can then > paste again). And there is a particular reason why we are *really* interested in *anything* to do with excel? It does help learning and using gimp? -- (paka)Patrick Shanahan Plainfield, Indiana, USA HOG # US1244711 http://wahoo.no-ip.orgPhoto Album: http://wahoo.no-ip.org/gallery2 http://en.opensuse.org openSUSE Community Member Registered Linux User #207535@ http://linuxcounter.net ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Mon, 12 Aug 2013 08:56:22 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared to > every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything from > the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with marching > ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only when you > hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect is that you > can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). Everything clipboard-related is pretty broken in Excel. The copied content is lost if you type something (but here's something funny: if you copy, then paste, then type something, the copied content is lost; however, if you then undo twice - undoing both the typing and the pasting, you can then paste again). -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> To: gimp-user-list@gnome.org > From: jernej|s-gm...@eternallybored.org > Date: Sun, 11 Aug 2013 22:38:04 +0200 > Subject: Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior > > In Paint Shop Pro and Excel the selection is also saved with document. > Speaking of Excel, Excel has really weird cut-and-paste behavior compared to every other app I know; the Cut command doesn't actually remove anything from the document or place it on the clipboard, it just marks it with marching ants (distinct from the normal click-and-drag selection) and only when you hit the Paste command does it actually cut/paste. A side effect is that you can only do one paste per cut (unlike with copy/paste). -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/11/2013 01:38 PM, Jernej Simončič wrote: On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 06:41:50 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. In Paint Shop Pro and Excel the selection is also saved with document. I actually find that behavior quite convenient. Sometimes I have a complex selection mask created that impacts multiple layers, and cannot complete the task until later. Saving the xcf with mask is very helpful. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/11/2013 03:41 PM, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > On the contrary, this is the dangerous situation... > - load file > - create complicated selection/path to update part of the image > - update that part > - export image > - quit (and throw the selection away...). > > IMHO the only safe case is when the image has one singe layer without > mask, no channels, no paths, no selections. GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. When you work on complicated selections, this is a very useful feature... ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sun, 11 Aug 2013 06:41:50 -0700, Richard Gitschlag wrote: > GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered > actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for > manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to > come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. In Paint Shop Pro and Excel the selection is also saved with document. -- < Jernej Simončič ><><><><>< http://eternallybored.org/ > ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
> On the contrary, this is the dangerous situation... > - load file > - create complicated selection/path to update part of the image > - update that part > - export image > - quit (and throw the selection away...). > > IMHO the only safe case is when the image has one singe layer without > mask, no channels, no paths, no selections. GIMP is the only application I know of where the selection mask is considered actual document content (rather than an interface entity used for manipulating document content). That was a very workflow-breaking issue to come to terms with, and actually much more so than Save vs. Export. -- Stratadrake strata_ran...@hotmail.com Numbers may not lie, but neither do they tell the whole truth. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 01:30:10PM -0600, John Meyer wrote: > On 8/10/2013 1:29 PM, maderios wrote: > >On 08/10/2013 08:46 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: > >>On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: > >> > >>>And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main > >>>developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to > >>>everybody, fine. But > >>>pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. > >> > >>Sadly not everyone understands the distinction. Thank you, John. > >> > >What are you talkin about ? I wrote "listen" to users, not "to please" > > "Listening" means "I dont know the truth, I open my windows and > >my door, I want to work with users, not ignore them > >Good night > I can listen to a person and still think that they are completely in > the wrong. In fact, the only person who seems to be not listening > here. . .is you. You're the one who's not realizing that this has > been considered by the developers and rejected for a good number of > reasons. You don't have to agree with them, but it's been explained +1000 -- Cheers, Stephen, Toronto My Google+ Profile | http://goo.gl/JbQsq ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 8/10/2013 1:29 PM, maderios wrote: On 08/10/2013 08:46 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to everybody, fine. But pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. Sadly not everyone understands the distinction. Thank you, John. What are you talkin about ? I wrote "listen" to users, not "to please" "Listening" means "I dont know the truth, I open my windows and my door, I want to work with users, not ignore them Good night I can listen to a person and still think that they are completely in the wrong. In fact, the only person who seems to be not listening here. . .is you. You're the one who's not realizing that this has been considered by the developers and rejected for a good number of reasons. You don't have to agree with them, but it's been explained to you. What you do know is your choice, not theirs. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 08:46 PM, Alexandre Prokoudine wrote: On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to everybody, fine. But pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. Sadly not everyone understands the distinction. Thank you, John. What are you talkin about ? I wrote "listen" to users, not "to please" "Listening" means "I dont know the truth, I open my windows and my door, I want to work with users, not ignore them Good night -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On Sat, Aug 10, 2013 at 8:54 PM, John Meyer wrote: > And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main > developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to everybody, fine. But > pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. Sadly not everyone understands the distinction. Thank you, John. Alexandre ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 8/10/2013 10:50 AM, maderios wrote: On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings if they're so good, go and use them, then. Or take a few classes on programming and fork the code, as I suggested earlier. Seriously, nothing's wrong with criticism of a feature you like or don't like as a user as long as: 1. You explain that as a user 2. You realize that you may be in the minority there. 3. If you've said you're not a developer then keep your opinions about what is and is not simple for a developer to maintain to yourself until you've developed a program. And I don't know about Enlightenment, but I'm assuming that the main developer isn't trying to please everybody. Listen to everybody, fine. But pleasing everybody is the same as pleasing nobody. ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/09/2013 03:07 PM, s.kortenweg wrote: When i started 50 years ago in the early days of IT as prof was me told that there are 2 rules for program developers : first keep it simple and second the user must be happy with the results of your work. In the endless discussion of export vs. Save i believe that the second rule is violated. Hi The Gimp developers approach is unfortunately very "closed". They do not care about the users and they believe they have the truth But a developer is mainly a developer, not a professional image editing. You can compare with other software development, like new Enlightenment (E17 and E18). It's completely different. The developers and the main developer (Rasterman) listen to users reviews and they use these criticisms to improve the program. http://www.enlightenment.org/ http://sourceforge.net/mailarchive/forum.php?forum_name=enlightenment-users Greetings -- Maderios ___ gimp-user-list mailing list List address:gimp-user-list@gnome.org List membership: https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user-list
Re: [Gimp-user] HATE the new save vs. export behavior
On 08/10/2013 01:07 AM, Cristian Secară wrote: > În data de Fri, 09 Aug 2013 14:41:01 -0700, Tom Williams a scris: > >> A couple of weeks ago, I stumbled upon a similar behavior in MS Word >> 2010. I had created a document that I wanted to save as a PDF file. >> I used the "Save As" function to do so. The PDF file got saved and >> Adobe Reader was opened to show me the PDF file was properly >> created. Cool. So, being happy with my new PDF file, I closed the >> Word window because I was "done" with my task (mission >> accomplished!). Low and behold, Word informed me I had "unsaved >> changes" and offered me the chance to save them. At first, I was >> surprised since I had _just_ saved the document to PDF format. Then, >> the light bulb went off. >> >> What I learned was this: Word was prompting me to save the "unsaved >> changes" because I had not, yet, saved my document in a file which >> Word could readily open for edit such that I could resume my >> editing. When I saved another test document in OpenDocument format >> and closed the Word window, Word did _not_ prompt me to save the >> "unsaved changes" because Word considers "OpenDocument" files to be >> "editable" where the PDF file isn't. > This example is not always similar to all situations in GIMP. One of > current scenario in GIMP is this: I take an existing .png or .jpg > picture with a company logo or a happy/interesting face of one of my > friends, crop the part of interest in square aspect ratio, scale down > to 106x106 pixels as this is the native resolution I need for Contacts, > maybe sharpen a bit, export as .png. > > Fine. At closing GIMP asks me "save the canges to image ?". Hmm. Save > what ? The original picture is already ruined from its perspective, so > what would be the benefit in save it as .xcf ? The exported .png is > more or less lossless and further lossless editable, assuming the > original was flat anyway and especially if the orignal was still .png. > > What realy misses here is some "intelligent" way in determining the > oportunity of the "save the changes to image ?" dialog. This dialog (or > the lack of an option to getting rid of it) that pops up in obvious > useless situations is the annoying one, *not* the export thing. > > Cristi > I understand but that's not the point. Your example isn't "always" similar to "all" situations of Gimp usage either. In your example, you don't need to save any changes that you would want to resume editing later since you've already exported the PNG file you want. Gimp *can not know that* since it can't read your mind. :) You could have opened a JPEG image, performed the same crop, and exported to PNG or vice-versa or even exported to both formats. Maybe then change the mode from RGB to indexed and exported to GIF as well. That doesn't change the fact you haven't saved your "work" in such a way that it can be easily resumed later on. Having Gimp or any other software effectively "guess" what you want will only lead to disaster later on. Believe me, I fully understand the old "save" behavior and when I encountered the new behavior, I was confused by it at first. In fact, I used to do this: 1. Identify an image to edit 2. Make a copy of it, so I would preserve the original (just in case) 3. Open the image in Gimp and make my edits 4. Either save the XCF file, if I wasn't finished with my edits or save as JPEG or PNG 5. Close Gimp. If later on I realized I screwed up the edit and needed to re-edit, I had to start over again unless I saved in XCF format. Even then, if I didn't save to XCF format frequently, I would "lose changes". Once I understood the new behavior more and realized it actually helps me preserve my work, I actually considered it a good change and one that will help me almost completely eliminate the "man, I wish I would have saved that XCF file" feelings a year after editing an image I need to edit again. People use Gimp in many different ways. Clearly a lot of people don't save their work in XCF format and clearly a number of professionals always save their work in the proprietary image format (XCF, PSD, etc). I used to be in the camp that never or rarely saved images in XCF format. With this new behavior, I'm now someone who almost always saves in XCF format and I consider this a good thing. Of course, none of this is about *my* specific use of Gimp but it's not about anyone else's specific use of Gimp either. Fortunately, there are options available to those who don't like the current behavior. Use a different tool. In fact, I've read great things about Paint.net for Windows, for the Windows users out there. Install a Gimp plug-in that restores (or close to it) the old desired behavior. Use an older version of Gimp. I've read most of the posts in this undying beast of a thread and have chosen to remain fairly silent throughout its existence. I think it's unfair and wrong to slam the Gimp developers as many have chosen to. The s
