Re: [OSM-talk] Spam reporting

[Ruben Maes]

On vrijdag 12 augustus 2016 15:47 Daniel Koć wrote:
> What should I do with clear spam acconts/comments like this?:
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/thepackersmoversdelhicom
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Mateusz%20Konieczny/diary/39069#comment35334
> 
> Is there a simple "flag/report" tool available?

You can add them on this wiki page: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Spam

There's an open issue for a report button on the site itself: 
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/841

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] OSM in French and Dutch [or any monolingual]

[Ruben Maes]

On vrijdag 12 augustus 2016 03:58 André Pirard wrote:
> On 2016-08-11 23:59, Ruben Maes wrote:
> > On donderdag 11 augustus 2016 18:26 André Pirard wrote:
> >> (...)
> >> OSM.org displays the names according to the Language preference of the
> >> browser (1).
> >> Precisely, it displays a name in the first language of that preference
> >> that matches one in the map.
> >> Else, it displays the common default name.
> >> E. g. if the preference is fr,ru :
> >> if name:fr exists, display it, else if name:ru exists, display it, else
> >> display name.
> >> (...)
> > I don't know where you get this, but it is completely false.
> > For what you say to be possible, there would have to be separate tiles for 
> > every language. That's not the case, everyone gets 
> > https://{a,b,c}.tile.openstreetmap.org/{zoomlevel}/{}/{}.png.
> 
> What I said is in fact how OSM.org display names in the Nominatim search
> left pane.

I think that even that is not true. I see:

Resultaten van OpenStreetMap Nominatim
- Plaats Liège, Wallonia, 4000, Belgium
- Countygrens Liège, Wallonia, Belgium
- Administratieve grens Liège, Wallonia, Belgium

> What Joost is asking, "a rendering of OSM in Dutch and French" ("or", I
> suppose)
> can be done by overlaying a nameless background and names foreground
> like this example for Liège and Russian:
> 
> http://c.tile.openstreetmap.de:8002/tiles/1.0.0/bg//11/1055/688.png
> http://c.tile.openstreetmap.de:8002/tiles/1.0.0/labels/ru/11/1055/688.png
> http://c.tile.openstreetmap.de:8002/tiles/1.0.0/labels/ru,_/11/1055/688.png

Indeed, good idea. I believe that's how Google Maps did it before they switched 
to vector tiles.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

Now back on topic: we have the Leie's banks back on the render.

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 17:54 Jakka wrote:
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/646584#map=17/50.82877/3.25798=N
> 
> Please feedback what and where was the cause

There were two places where there were problems with relation 
http://osm.org/relation/2393380:

* http://osm.org/relation/2393380#map=17/50.89599/3.34545
   The sluice was a complete mess. It took me some time to figure out what was 
going on exactly here.

* http://osm.org/changeset/41095237#map=19/50.92122/3.42972
   There was a random tiny, excess way in the relation.

The waterway=riverbank tags were non-uniformly applied. Not all ways had them, 
some had an additional random area=yes or area=no. Some had natural=riverbank, 
waterway=canalbank or some other weird derivation I had never heard of.
I stripped those completely. No more waterway=riverbank on this part of the 
Leie [note 1]. But if some day consensus is reached (not that that will ever 
happen) that the multipolygon approach with {natural=water, water=river} isn't 
good after all, it wouldn't be so hard to convert it.

[note 1] Sorry Glenn, I really couldn't be bothered any more. With a relation, 
I can tell JOSM to fetch all member ways, use webtools like the one you 
mentioned to check their integrity, and the JOSM validator will complain if I'm 
messing up.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 20:38 Karel Adams wrote:
> Wat ik eigenlijk bedoelde te zeggen: er moet toch ergens een "howto" of 
> een "preferred practice" zijn voor het mappen van een courant en 
> essentieel landschapselement als een rivier?
> 
> Enne, jawel, het ging er me over dat er op tijd van enkele uren galant 
> een twintigtal berichten rondgingen met evenzovele meningen of toch 
> minstens ideeën. Ik had verwacht dat binnen de kortste keren iemand had 
> verwezen naar "How to map rivers, streams, and other natural flows of 
> surface waters". Meer dient er toch niet gezegd?

Welkom bij OpenStreetMap. Dat is dus totaal niet het geval hier. :p

Als je wat minder van dit soort discussies, en wat minder hevig wil, en wat 
minder berichten snel op elkaar, raad ik je aan je te abonneren op de 
Tagging-mailing-list.

(Voor alle duidelijkheid: dat was anti-advies. Ik sta niet in voor de gevolgen 
als je dat doet.)

> En inderdaad, met de technische details van het mappen wil ik me niet 
> inlaten, ik heb enkel een klein beetje zicht op het mappen van 
> vliegvelden, euh, "luchtvaarttereinen" :) Maar ik stelde me toch wat 
> vragen bij onze aanpak oftewel metodiek, (...)

Ik ook, ik wens wel eens dat er een authoriteit was, dan werd er niet zoveel 
tijd aan dit soort dingen verspild. Want inderdaad maakt het niet zo heel veel 
uit, zo lang het maar een beetje consequent is. Dat consequent krijgen is dus 
het moeilijkst aangezien iedereen zijn eigen ding wil doen. :p


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 22:21 Glenn Plas wrote:
> On 28-07-16 22:03, Ruben Maes wrote:
> > On donderdag 28 juli 2016 21:56 Glenn Plas wrote:
> >> No , not for canals, when I researched this became pretty clear this
> >> was only meant for rivers.  But the Leie is a river so it's ok here.
> > 
> > Well that's weird, because there's a canal connected to the river and it 
> > also needs cleaning, and we have'd to use two fundamentally different ways 
> > to map that.
> 
> Oh, I see what you mean I think, the U detour.. interesting.
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1201127#map=16/50.9146/3.4226=N
> 
> That piece seems seriously broken (visual inspection).  But this is
> probably the 'canal' you talk about.

Yes, the Ooigem Sluice is broken badly. I'm fixing it up right now. The canal I 
was talking about is indeed the canal Roeselare-Ooigem, which joins the Leie in 
said sluice.

> Glenn
> 
> 
> > 
> >> (...)
> >> If you want to take a stab at fixing it , go ahead. If you want me to
> >> review it later on, give me the headsup and I'll take a look.  A bit
> >> short in time due to closing the books on the fiscal year of 2015.  I
> >> hate fines :)
> > 
> > I'll try my best. In fact I have been working on it for several hours, but 
> > then you came along here on the list opening the discussion. (but that's 
> > alright) ;)
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> > 
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 21:51 Marc Gemis wrote:
> Some background: the natural=water, water = x was proposed by Zverik.
> His idea was to make it easy for mappers using aerial imagery to map
> anything "water"-like with natural=water, eventually someone would add
> the water=x detail. x, can be pond, stream, river, canal, oxbow, etc.
> etc. [1] carto-css (the standard rendering can handle this tagging
> scheme without problems).
> 
> Recently someone was complaining about this use for bassins. [2]
> 
> [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:water
> [2] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/pipermail/talk/2016-June/076144.html

In the thread that followed several points for both sides have been made.

Reading the full thread on talk, I don't feel like fixing the Leie any more. I 
will just try to solve the render issues and then leave it be. OSM's free 
tagging is one of it's strengths, but also one of it's biggest disadvantages.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 21:56 Glenn Plas wrote:
> No , not for canals, when I researched this became pretty clear this
> was only meant for rivers.  But the Leie is a river so it's ok here.

Well that's weird, because there's a canal connected to the river and it also 
needs cleaning, and we have'd to use two fundamentally different ways to map 
that.

> (...)
> If you want to take a stab at fixing it , go ahead. If you want me to
> review it later on, give me the headsup and I'll take a look.  A bit
> short in time due to closing the books on the fiscal year of 2015.  I
> hate fines :)

I'll try my best. In fact I have been working on it for several hours, but then 
you came along here on the list opening the discussion. (but that's alright) ;)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

Hi Glenn

We can do away with the relation and make sure waterway=riverbank is placed 
everywhere. But this has seemed always strange to me: for canals as well? A 
canal is not a river, and the wiki on waterway=riverbank says: "This describes 
the tagging scheme for large rivers", linking to the Wikipedia page for river: 
"A river is a natural flowing watercourse ..."

waterway=riverbank is less relation-fiddling and I'm starting to see the 
advantages of that as well.

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 21:19 Glenn Plas wrote:
> Hey Ruben,
> 
> >> I do not see the merit of natural=water scheme at all on a river or a
> >> canal.  It's a waterway.  imho, there is nothing to migrate to.
> >> Unless I seriously missed something, the way to do it is the way (not
> >> the area) is the logical waterway.
> > 
> > Both have disadvantages. They are equally hard to maintain.
> 
> I disagree here.  Riverbank is easy to maintain for me atleast, they
> should not be included in any relationship either, they should not be
> named and they do make sense on rivers where the waterlevel (and/or
> tides) influence the shape. [1]
> 
> The logical riverway still belongs in the the 'waterway tagging scheme'
> if we can call it like that.
> 
> natural=water isn't meant for rivers.  I don't see where this idea is
> coming from at the moment.  It's used on lakes, still water etc but on a
> river it's not suited. [2]  The wiki doesn't mention that usage either.
> 
> So the logical river would be waterway=river , and that is the part you
> would put in a waterway relation, the riverbank not.
> 
> Keep things simple I would suggest.  Hence the suggestion to delete the
> relation, probably have to review the tags first so we don't throw away
> good information.
> 
> Now, I'm about to put the kids to bed so I really just scanned the wiki
> but I've done quite some research on waterway logic, hence why I'm quite
> convinced.  But always open to suggestions.
> 
> Glenn
> 
> 
> 
>  [1] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:waterway%3Driverbank
>  [2] http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dwater


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 20:42 Glenn Plas wrote:
> On 28-07-16 20:10, Ruben Maes wrote:
> > On donderdag 28 juli 2016 19:34 Glenn Plas wrote:
> >> Ik vraag me ook sterk af wat de bedoeling is van de 2de relatie
> >> die ook Leie heet waarin enkel de riverbanks steken.
> >
> > I believe someone tried to migrate to the natural=water scheme but
> > didn't remove the waterway=riverbank.
> 
> We should keep waterway=riverbank, and delete relation 2393380
> altogether, it contains highway=paths and all sorts of stuff that
> doesn't belong there.   There are seperated sections and also admin
> boundaries that totally do not belong in a waterway.
> 
> I do not see the merit of natural=water scheme at all on a river or a
> canal.  It's a waterway.  imho, there is nothing to migrate to.
> Unless I seriously missed something, the way to do it is the way (not
> the area) is the logical waterway.

Both have disadvantages. They are equally hard to maintain.

IMO the multipolygon with natural=water is more logical. The riverbank approach 
is weird, even though it has been used longer.

> >> Als ik straks ga meten hoelang de Leie is adhv. deze data gaat
> >> dit niet juist zijn.
> >
> > Obviously you should measure the type=waterway relation[2], not the
> > type=multipolygon relation[1].
> 
> Sure, but what if I want to do it by name only, without tagging scheme
> quirks.
> 
> There is no need for 2 relations, period.  "There can be... only one!"
> 
> Glenn
> 
> 
> 
> 
> >
> > [1]
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1201127
> >>
> >> en
> >
> > [2]
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2393380
> >>
> >> Er klopt ook nog steeds iets niet in die relaties/ways, als je
> >> die links opendoet zie je het zo al.
> >>
> >> Glenn
> >>
> >>
> >> On 28-07-16 18:00, Ruben Maes wrote:
> >>> Hi Frank
> >>>
> >>> I've removed the area=no that was tagged on it. I think that
> >>> was the cause, I hope it renders again soon.
> >>>
> >>> On donderdag 28 juli 2016 17:54 Jakka wrote:
> >>>> Hi
> >>>>
> >>>> A note that the rendering of riverbank "Leie" between
> >>>> Kortrijk and Wervik is gone. In the past I added a lot of
> >>>> stuff there and it was good. Had corrected several overlap
> >>>> riverbanks en controlled begin to end but I do not know what
> >>>> to look after. The "Leie" is a natural border with France Has
> >>>> there been a mass update from there ?
> >>>>
> >>>> Some one with knowledge can check that?
> >>>>
> >>>> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/646584#map=17/50.82877/3.25798=N
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>
> >>>>
> Please feedback what and where was the cause
> >
> >
> >
> > ___ Talk-be mailing
> > list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 19:34 Glenn Plas wrote:
> Ik vraag me ook sterk af wat de bedoeling is van de 2de relatie die
> ook Leie heet waarin enkel de riverbanks steken.

I believe someone tried to migrate to the natural=water scheme but didn't 
remove the waterway=riverbank.

> Als ik straks ga meten hoelang de Leie is adhv. deze data gaat dit
> niet juist zijn.

Obviously you should measure the type=waterway relation[2], not the 
type=multipolygon relation[1].

[1]
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/1201127
> 
> en 

[2]
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/2393380
> 
> Er klopt ook nog steeds iets niet in die relaties/ways, als je die
> links opendoet zie je het zo al.
> 
> Glenn
> 
> 
> On 28-07-16 18:00, Ruben Maes wrote:
> > Hi Frank
> >
> > I've removed the area=no that was tagged on it. I think that was
> > the cause, I hope it renders again soon.
> >
> > On donderdag 28 juli 2016 17:54 Jakka wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> A note that the rendering of riverbank "Leie" between Kortrijk
> >> and Wervik is gone. In the past I added a lot of stuff there and
> >> it was good. Had corrected several overlap riverbanks en
> >> controlled begin to end but I do not know what to look after. The
> >> "Leie" is a natural border with France Has there been a mass
> >> update from there ?
> >>
> >> Some one with knowledge can check that?
> >>
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/646584#map=17/50.82877/3.25798=N
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Please feedback what and where was the cause

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Rendering of stream "Leie" broken

[Ruben Maes]

Seems someone screwed up the Leie multipolygon relation pretty bad. I can deal 
with it after dinner.

On donderdag 28 juli 2016 18:56 Glenn Plas wrote:
> Area=no should not be needed on a riverbank.  It's implied by creating
> a closed way.  The problem is elsewhere.
> 
> Glenn
> 
> 
> On 28-07-16 18:00, Ruben Maes wrote:
> > Hi Frank
> >
> > I've removed the area=no that was tagged on it. I think that was
> > the cause, I hope it renders again soon.
> >
> > On donderdag 28 juli 2016 17:54 Jakka wrote:
> >> Hi
> >>
> >> A note that the rendering of riverbank "Leie" between Kortrijk
> >> and Wervik is gone. In the past I added a lot of stuff there and
> >> it was good. Had corrected several overlap riverbanks en
> >> controlled begin to end but I do not know what to look after. The
> >> "Leie" is a natural border with France Has there been a mass
> >> update from there ?
> >>
> >> Some one with knowledge can check that?
> >>
> >> https://www.openstreetmap.org/note/646584#map=17/50.82877/3.25798=N
> >>
> >>
> >>
> Please feedback what and where was the cause
> >>
> >> Thx
> >
> >
> >
> > ___ Talk-be mailing
> > list Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> 
> 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Grootschalige luchtfoto's

[Ruben Maes]

On zondag 24 juli 2016 23:39 Jakka wrote:
> Op 24/07/2016 om 14:59 schreef Ruben Maes:
> > Dag iedereen
> >
> > Iedereen weet ondertussen wel dat Agiv recente orthofotomozaïeken heeft die 
> > we mogen gebruiken om te mappen, en die een veel betere resolutie en 
> > alignering hebben dan Bing.
> >
> > Hebben jullie ook al de grootschalige mozaïeken gezien? [1] Tussen 2013 en 
> > 2015 werden er gemaakt in het kader van het Digitaal Hoogtemodel Vlaanderen 
> > II, en deze werden gereleaset op 23 maart 2016 [2]. Voor zover ik kan zien, 
> > dekken ze heel Vlaanderen. Ze zijn wat minder up-to-date, maar de resolutie 
> > is fenomenaal (10cm resolutie, maximale afwijking 60cm, meestal minder dan 
> > 30cm). De licentie is de Vlaamse Open Data licentie v1.2 [2] dus we mogen 
> > die beelden gebruiken om van te mappen. Natuurlijk moet je wel opletten dat 
> > wat je op de beelden ziet nog steeds zo is. Schuilt er hier een addertje 
> > onder het gras? Het lijkt bijna te mooi om waar te zijn.
> >
> > Groeten
> > Ruben
> >
> > [1] 
> > http://www.geopunt.be/kaart?app=Geopunt-kaart_app=Luchtfoto%20Vlaanderen,%20winter%202013-2015%20-%20kleur
> > [2] 
> > https://www.agiv.be/news/2016/maart/release-orthofotomozaiek-grootschalig-winteropnamen-kleur-2013-2015-vlaanderen
>
> Kunnen deze ook als extra layer in josm ingeladen worden zoja hoe en 
> waar welke url ?

Dat kan inderdaad. Op de site van Agiv kan je de WMS-URL vinden. Die kan je 
vervolgens copy-pasten in de JOSM-instellingen (Imagery → Imagery preferences → 
rechtsonder het plusteken met "WMS" bij geschreven).

Ik heb met opzet de URL hier nog niet gepost, zodat mensen niet zonder nadenken 
zouden beginnen mappen. Als er nog antwoorden op mijn bericht worden gepost 
(bv. als iemand een addertje onder het gras vindt), is de kans nu groter dat 
die gelezen zullen worden. (Als je begrijpt wat ik bedoel.)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] newbie tag area and footway everywhere ...

[Ruben Maes]

On zondag 24 juli 2016 15:43 Ruben Maes wrote:
> It looks a bit overkill, it will be a while before I go to that level of 
> detail, but I don't object if he wants to do that.
> 
> Apart from that:
> • ...

• And changeset comments! For God's sake, calling everything "Update" isn't 
going to help anybody know what you did or why you did it!

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] newbie tag area and footway everywhere ...

[Ruben Maes]

On donderdag 21 juli 2016 11:26 Jakka wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> newbie tag area and footway everywhere ...even in backyards
> 
> https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.03767764526553/3.2040104268684955
> 
> It is like http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/area:highway
> 
> Is it the good new way ??? before it to late can someone look and advice 
> me and this person ?
> 
> thx

It looks a bit overkill, it will be a while before I go to that level of 
detail, but I don't object if he wants to do that.

Apart from that:
• Driveways should be tagged {highway=service, service=driveway}. Not 
{highway=footway}. [note 1]
• The driveways are not connected to the road, only to the sidewalk, which is 
incorrect.
• If the driveway is linear, he adds a line (correct), but makes no junction 
between the area and the line. [url 1]
• If the driveway is linear I'd rather use area:highway like you say, instead 
of {highway=*, area=yes}.

And if he's doing such intensive mapping, he *may* be better served by JOSM 
(currently all his changesets are with iD), so you could suggest him to try it.

Kind regards
Ruben

[note 1]
In the Dutch iD:
• {highway=service} = "Toegangsweg"
• {highway=service, service=driveway} = "Oprit"
• {highway=footway} = "Wandelpad"
For some reason only "Wandelpad" shows up in iD in the presets for areas. You 
can only add a "Toegangsweg" or "Oprit" on *lines* from the presets.

[url 1] 
https://www.openstreetmap.org/edit?editor=id=414681281#map=19/51.03649/3.20566

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[OSM-talk-be] Grootschalige luchtfoto's

[Ruben Maes]

Dag iedereen

Iedereen weet ondertussen wel dat Agiv recente orthofotomozaïeken heeft die we 
mogen gebruiken om te mappen, en die een veel betere resolutie en alignering 
hebben dan Bing.

Hebben jullie ook al de grootschalige mozaïeken gezien? [1] Tussen 2013 en 2015 
werden er gemaakt in het kader van het Digitaal Hoogtemodel Vlaanderen II, en 
deze werden gereleaset op 23 maart 2016 [2]. Voor zover ik kan zien, dekken ze 
heel Vlaanderen. Ze zijn wat minder up-to-date, maar de resolutie is fenomenaal 
(10cm resolutie, maximale afwijking 60cm, meestal minder dan 30cm). De licentie 
is de Vlaamse Open Data licentie v1.2 [2] dus we mogen die beelden gebruiken om 
van te mappen. Natuurlijk moet je wel opletten dat wat je op de beelden ziet 
nog steeds zo is. Schuilt er hier een addertje onder het gras? Het lijkt bijna 
te mooi om waar te zijn.

Groeten
Ruben

[1] 
http://www.geopunt.be/kaart?app=Geopunt-kaart_app=Luchtfoto%20Vlaanderen,%20winter%202013-2015%20-%20kleur
[2] 
https://www.agiv.be/news/2016/maart/release-orthofotomozaiek-grootschalig-winteropnamen-kleur-2013-2015-vlaanderen

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] GR: stand van zaken

[Ruben Maes]

On Monday, 18 July 2016 19 h 02 min 30 s CEST joost schouppe wrote:
> Nog eentje: ik ben geneigd te vermijden van een polygoon (bijvoorbeeld een
> plein) mee te geven aan een wandelroute. Ik heb al twee strategieën gezien
> om dat te doen: met een untagged lijn die als enige nut heeft lid van de
> relatie te zijn; of als een pad dat wel getekend staat maar niet bestaat.
> Ik neig zelf naar dat eerst (liever iets lelijks dan iets incorrect). Maar
> misschien zien jullie dat anders?

Ik heb al een paar keer highway:virtual=* gebruikt. De mogelijke waarden zijn 
hetzelfde als bij highway=* en drukken ook hetzelfde uit, maar met de 
betekenis dat de weg niet als lineaire feature te zien is op de grond.

Het proposal stelt origineel highway=virtual voor, maar dat is niet praktisch 
omdat je dan alle toegelaten vervoerswijzen expliciet moet taggen.

Zie de wikipagina: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/
virtual_highway

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] fietsstraat, bicycle_road, cyclestreet,...

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 07 June 2016 12:46:27, Killian De Volder:
> On 07-06-16 11:24, Santens Seppe wrote:
> > Hi all,
> > 
> 
> > However, the description of bicycle_road in the Wiki [3] is different from 
> > de definition of the cycle streets in Belgium (e.g. bicycle road implies 
> > that cars are not allowed, this is not the case for our cycle streets). The 
> > Dutch wiki suggests cycleway=cyclestreet [4], but cyclestreet=yes is also 
> > used. So I ask you, dear community, what should we do? When there is a 
> > consensus, it might be good to add this to the Belgian Wiki.
> > 
> 
> I see this problem a bit bigger:
> 
> I think we should have a general register that defines what a tag implies for 
> each road-law region (usually an entire country).
> (And this data should ideally not be stored in the Wiki, but rather inside 
> OSM, or a file you can download to use in your routing-software.)
> For example all our highways are 120, but they are not tagged as such. So 
> it's up to uninformed drivers and router-planners to figure this out.
> 
> That or we define at-least the default and each mapper get to define the 
> differences from the world-wide norm.
> (But this will cause newcomers to make many mistakes)
> 
> (If there is already such a thing, still rather green ;)

I know of
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relations/Proposed/Defaults

I didn't find a defaults relation for Belgium. (But I also didn't for France, I 
got it via the wiki. While searching for France, I found one "France" 
relation[1], while the defaults "apply" to another one[2].)

Maybe there are other efforts as well.

[1] http://osm.org/relation/11980
[2] http://osm.org/relation/2202162

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] municipal boundaries in Belgium

[Ruben Maes]

Wednesday 01 June 2016 19:50:48, Sander Deryckere:
> Note that the GRB data mentions it's "voorlopig", and often, the data shows
> an offset from parcel boundaries. At those places, I would expect the
> boundaries to follow parcel boundaries (and I expect parcel boundaries to
> be of better quality).

What is the authority for this? Who is the boss about where a municipality 
ends? Can it be copied from there? Intuitively I'd think those official borders 
should not be able to be copyrighted.

> (...)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsstraat: 30km ten laste van wie ?

[Ruben Maes]

Wednesday 25 May 2016 22:49:25, Killian De Volder:
> Merci, Bedankt,
> 
> @ru...@janmaes.com
> Would you like to translate ? I might be able to produce something that looks 
> like French. But information will be lost.

Sure. But keep in mind I'm also just a poor Dutch speaking guy :p


La code de la route n'est que pour son utilisateurs. Alors les chauffeurs 
doivent limiter leur vitesse à 30km/h.

Si le législateur voulait imposer une obligation à la voirie, il le décréterait 
dans "l'Arrêté ministériel fixant les dimensions minimales et les conditions 
particulières de placement de la signalisation routière" et pas dans la code de 
la route.

Le "Vademecum Flamand des Provisions pour les Cyclistes" ne contient non plus 
aucune suggestion d'ajouter un panneau supplémentaire. 
http://www.mobielvlaanderen.be/pdf/vademecum/hfdst3.pdf punt 3.1.4

> On 25-05-16 22:03, Wouter Hamelinck wrote:
> > Wegcode is voor weggebruikers. Zij dienen ervoor te zorgen dat hun snelheid 
> > niet boven de 30km/u komt.
> > 
> > Indien de wetgever aan de wegbeheerder een verplichting zou willen opleggen 
> > om een bijkomende snelheidsbeperking in te voeren zou dat in het 
> > "Ministerieel besluit houdende de minimum afmetingen en de bijzondere 
> > plaatsingsvoorwaarden van de verkeerstekens" 
> > (http://wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/mb/mb-111076) staan en niet in de 
> > wegcode.
> > 
> > Ook het Vlaams Vacemecum Fietsvoorzieningen bevat geen enkele suggestie om 
> > een extra bord met snelheidsbeperking toe te voegen. 
> > http://www.mobielvlaanderen.be/pdf/vademecum/hfdst3.pdf punt 3.1.4
> > 
> > wouter
> > 
> > 2016-05-25 20:59 GMT+02:00 Killian De Volder  > >:
> > 
> > http://wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/kb/wegcode/1804-art22novies
> > 
> > De wetgeving is geen 100% duidelijk in dit artikel:
> > "De snelheid mag in een fietsstraat nooit hoger liggen dan 30 kilometer 
> > per uur."
> > Is dit ten laste van de gemeenten die een snelheidsbeperking moeten 
> > opleggen (bijkomend bord).
> > Of is dit ten laste van de bestuurders ?
> > 
> > (Geen speculatie aub.)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Fietsstraat: 30km/u ten laste van wie? / Rue cyclable: 30km/h maximum - qui est responsable ?

[Ruben Maes]

Because this question is applicable nationally, I'm providing a French 
translation:


http://www.code-de-la-route.be/textes-legaux/sections/ar/code-de-la-route/1716-art22novies

La loi n'est pas vraiment claire dans cet article à propos des rues cyclables :
« La vitesse ne peut jamais y être supérieure à 30 km/h. »
Cela, c'est la responsabilité des municipalités, qui doivent placer un panneau 
de signalisation; ou celle des chauffeurs ?

(Pas de spéculation svp.)


Wednesday 25 May 2016 20:59:37, Killian De Volder:
> http://wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/kb/wegcode/1804-art22novies
> 
> De wetgeving is niet 100% duidelijk in dit artikel:
> "De snelheid mag in een fietsstraat nooit hoger liggen dan 30 kilometer per 
> uur."
> Is dit ten laste van de gemeenten die een snelheidsbeperking moeten opleggen 
> (bijkomend bord).
> Of is dit ten laste van de bestuurders?
> 
> (Geen speculatie aub.)
> 
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> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Landuse mapping

[Ruben Maes]

--- English below -

Thursday 19 May 2016 21:14:58, Marc Gemis:
> Recentelijk ben ik hier en daar wat landuse beginnen corrigeren of wat
> extra detail beginnen toevoegen. Ik vind het niet zo eenvoudig om
> alles mooi te classificeren.
> Hoe zouden jullie bv
> 
> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-27-Stotert-Olmen/i-rXpM5hd/0/O/DSC_7398.jpg
> 
> en
> 
> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-27-Stotert-Olmen/i-8nCSVqP/0/O/DSC_7396.jpg
> 
> taggen ?

Ik dacht meteen aan natural=wetland, en gepaste subtags.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dwetland

> Jammer dat er hier niet rechtstreeks foto's kunnen worden gezet. Ik
> wel nog wel wat plekjes waar ik de landuse zou willen van aanpassen en
> waar ik hulp bij nodig heb. Hebben jullie suggesties om gemakkelijker
> over foto's te discussieren ? Het forum is jammer genoeg vrij doods.

-- English ---
Thursday 19 May 2016 21:14:58, Marc Gemis:
> Recently, I started mapping landuse. In the beginning some small
> changes or extra detail, but now I want to make more involving
> changes. But that is pretty hard. Can you help to map
> 
> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-27-Stotert-Olmen/i-rXpM5hd/0/O/DSC_7398.jpg
> 
> and
> 
> https://photos.smugmug.com/OSM/OSM-2016/2016-03-27-Stotert-Olmen/i-8nCSVqP/0/O/DSC_7396.jpg

I immediately thought of natural=wetland, and fitting subtags.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:natural%3Dwetland

> I know this is not the best media to discuss photo's, but nobody is
> reading the forum. Other suggestions to handle this ?
> 
> met vriendelijke groeten/regards

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] welcoming new mappers

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 12 May 2016 15:36:03, Ben Abelshausen:
> It's done and working:
> 
> http://welcome.osm.be/

Thanks for that! osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com now redirects to the fancy url.

> It would be great if OSGeo could provide us with hosting... thanks Johan!
> :-) What does Ruben need to do...? Or are you guys already in touch?

Yes, I have sent Johan the link to the Git repository 
(https://framagit.org/Midgard/osm-welcome-belgium). When the server is set up 
successfully, the DNS has to be reconfigured by you, the old instance shut down 
by me and its data files put in the new place by Johan and me.

> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben Abelshausen
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:29 AM, Ruben Maes <ru...@janmaes.com> wrote:
> 
> > Yes, that would be better. My server is just an old laptop running at my
> > home. :p
> >
> > Thursday 12 May 2016 11:25:37, Johan Van de Wauw:
> > > Hi all,
> > >
> > > OSGeo Belgium has a simple hosting instance at gandi [1] serving our
> > > site ( http://www.osgeo.be )and the one for FOSS4G.be (
> > > http://www.foss4g.be )
> > >
> > > We have room enough to host another site.
> > >
> > > Kind Regards,
> > > Johan
> > >
> > > [1] https://www.gandi.net/hosting/
> > >
> > > On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Ben Abelshausen
> > > <ben.abelshau...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > We don't have a location to run a php-based website at the moment but
> > we do
> > > > have a server available and we can install the correct tools
> > (webserver,
> > > > etc) if someone is willing to do that...?
> > > >
> > > > As for the domain, just tell me where to point it and it's done. I
> > could
> > > > also just redirect welcome.osm.be to
> > > > http://osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com/login.php but that's not the best
> > > > solution.
> > > >
> > > > Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > > > Best regards,
> > > >
> > > > Ben Abelshausen

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] welcoming new mappers

[Ruben Maes]

Yes, that would be better. My server is just an old laptop running at my home. 
:p

Thursday 12 May 2016 11:25:37, Johan Van de Wauw:
> Hi all,
> 
> OSGeo Belgium has a simple hosting instance at gandi [1] serving our
> site ( http://www.osgeo.be )and the one for FOSS4G.be (
> http://www.foss4g.be )
> 
> We have room enough to host another site.
> 
> Kind Regards,
> Johan
> 
> [1] https://www.gandi.net/hosting/
> 
> On Thu, May 12, 2016 at 11:12 AM, Ben Abelshausen
>  wrote:
> > We don't have a location to run a php-based website at the moment but we do
> > have a server available and we can install the correct tools (webserver,
> > etc) if someone is willing to do that...?
> >
> > As for the domain, just tell me where to point it and it's done. I could
> > also just redirect welcome.osm.be to
> > http://osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com/login.php but that's not the best
> > solution.
> >
> > Met vriendelijke groeten,
> > Best regards,
> >
> > Ben Abelshausen

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] welcoming new mappers

[Ruben Maes]

I've just modified the server config to also recognize welcome.osm.be, so you 
can set the DNS to the same IPs as osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com if you want.

Thursday 12 May 2016 11:12:37, Ben Abelshausen:
> We don't have a location to run a php-based website at the moment but we do
> have a server available and we can install the correct tools (webserver,
> etc) if someone is willing to do that...?
> 
> As for the domain, just tell me where to point it and it's done. I could
> also just redirect welcome.osm.be to
> http://osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com/login.php but that's not the best
> solution.
> 
> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben Abelshausen
> 
> On Mon, Apr 11, 2016 at 8:37 AM, joost schouppe <joost.schou...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
> 
> > That would be really nice.
> >
> > Also, you can just use the tool to check the changesets. That way someone
> > else (i.e. me) can send the community-invites much more quickly.
> >
> > I believe every new mapper in Belgium should get an invitation to join the
> > local mailing list, the Forum, the meetup group, etc. But I can't keep up
> > by myself alone.
> >
> > 2016-04-10 22:21 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes <ru...@janmaes.com>:
> >
> >> Friday 01 April 2016 17:32:55, Ben Abelshausen:
> >> > I just want to say this is awesome! Nicely done! :-)
> >>
> >> Thanks. :)
> >>
> >> > Any links to the source code? Do I setup a domain using osm.be like '
> >> > welcome.osm.be'? Any problems I can help with?
> >>
> >> I've just put the source online at
> >> https://git.framasoft.org/Midgard/osm-welcome-belgium
> >>
> >> welcome.osm.be would be nice of course.
> >> If you want, you can also host it. The site would probably work a bit
> >> faster then. I can zip the files with the data and email them.
> >>
> >> > Met vriendelijke groeten,
> >> > Best regards,
> >> >
> >> > Ben Abelshausen
> >> >
> >> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Marc Gemis <marc.ge...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >> >
> >> > > I've only send 1 welcome message so far and indicated that I did.
> >> > >
> >> > > m
> >> > >
> >> > >
> >> > > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM, joost schouppe
> >> > > <joost.schou...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> > > > Ruben, someone actually did, I believe it was Pierre Parmentier who
> >> made
> >> > > the
> >> > > > translation for us.
> >> > > > BTW, I'm having to log in again at every click of the button right
> >> now...
> >> > > >
> >> > > > Marc, I see you've helped out analyzing the changesets. Did you
> >> also send
> >> > > > the welcome message? (you need to ctrl+c at the welcome message
> >> page,
> >> > > paste
> >> > > > it in the new tab, close the tab and mark the "I've sent this
> >> message"
> >> > > > button)
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > >
> >> > > > ___
> >> > > > Talk-be mailing list
> >> > > > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> > > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >> > > >
> >> > >
> >> > > ___
> >> > > Talk-be mailing list
> >> > > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >> > >
> >>
> >> --
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> >>
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> >> Talk-be mailing list
> >> Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >> https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > Joost @
> > Openstreetmap <http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/joost%20schouppe/> |
> > Twitter <https://twitter.com/joostjakob> | LinkedIn
> > <https://www.linkedin.com/pub/joost-schouppe/48/939/603> | Meetup
> > <http://www.meetup.com/OpenStreetMap-Belgium/members/97979802/> | Reddit
> > <https://www.reddit.com/u/joostjakob> | Wordpress
> > <https://joostschouppe.wordpress.com/>
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >
> >

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] MissingMaps National

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 17 April 2016 18:05:29, Jo:
> Ruben, we're creating a press release:
> 
> https://hackpad.com/Press-release-E4GFhbj0rKg#
> 
> In the Dutch version I included a way for people who missed the event to
> get involved from home by pointing them to a fresh Swaziland project. If we
> decide to include this, it still needs to be translated back to the French
> version.
> 
> Do you think this is a good idea? You can write a mail to VTM, but they
> can't unbroadcast that footage. So maybe we should focus on getting the
> information out correctly where it still is possible. On the one hand it's
> great that we got ad hoc coverage, but there are disadvantages to
> everything.
> 
> Jo

That's better, I'll just keep quiet. They're just trying to do their job. I got 
a bit too mad when I saw the footage.

Ruben
 
> 2016-04-17 17:56 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes <ru...@janmaes.com>:
> 
> > Sunday 17 April 2016 17:47:06, Marc Gemis:
> > > I wished they had labeled me as "OpenStreetMap Vrijwilliger" ipv enkel
> > > "Vrijwilliger". :-/
> >
> > :(
> >
> > > On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Ruben Maes <ru...@janmaes.com> wrote:
> > > > Wow, even on the 1PM "Journaal":
> > http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/programmas/journaal/2.43814?video=1.2630443
> > > >
> > > > Technically, they violated OSM's copyright. They showed our maps and
> > didn't say OpenStreetMap once. I was actually hoping to hear Wim De Vilder
> > say "OpenStreetMap" :p
> >
> > VTM went further: they mentioned neither OpenStreetMap nor "missing maps",
> > and showed the tasking manager on Google Earth with attribution (which
> > oddly makes me pretty mad). People don't have a clue that they can help at
> > home.
> >
> > I'm going to contact them.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] MissingMaps National

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 17 April 2016 17:47:06, Marc Gemis:
> I wished they had labeled me as "OpenStreetMap Vrijwilliger" ipv enkel
> "Vrijwilliger". :-/

:(

> On Sun, Apr 17, 2016 at 5:42 PM, Ruben Maes <ru...@janmaes.com> wrote:
> > Wow, even on the 1PM "Journaal": 
> > http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/programmas/journaal/2.43814?video=1.2630443
> >
> > Technically, they violated OSM's copyright. They showed our maps and didn't 
> > say OpenStreetMap once. I was actually hoping to hear Wim De Vilder say 
> > "OpenStreetMap" :p

VTM went further: they mentioned neither OpenStreetMap nor "missing maps", and 
showed the tasking manager on Google Earth with attribution (which oddly makes 
me pretty mad). People don't have a clue that they can help at home.

I'm going to contact them.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] MissingMaps National

[Ruben Maes]

Saturday 16 April 2016 23:22:01, Marc Gemis:
> I wrote a short diary about my day in Ghent during the MissingMaps National.
> Joost already added a comment some additional numbers on this very
> successful day
> 
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/user/escada/diary/38461

Wow, even on the 1PM "Journaal": 
http://deredactie.be/cm/vrtnieuws/videozone/programmas/journaal/2.43814?video=1.2630443

Technically, they violated OSM's copyright. They showed our maps and didn't say 
OpenStreetMap once. I was actually hoping to hear Wim De Vilder say 
"OpenStreetMap" :p

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] welcoming new mappers

[Ruben Maes]

Friday 01 April 2016 17:32:55, Ben Abelshausen:
> I just want to say this is awesome! Nicely done! :-)

Thanks. :)

> Any links to the source code? Do I setup a domain using osm.be like '
> welcome.osm.be'? Any problems I can help with?

I've just put the source online at 
https://git.framasoft.org/Midgard/osm-welcome-belgium

welcome.osm.be would be nice of course.
If you want, you can also host it. The site would probably work a bit faster 
then. I can zip the files with the data and email them.

> Met vriendelijke groeten,
> Best regards,
> 
> Ben Abelshausen
> 
> On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:57 AM, Marc Gemis  wrote:
> 
> > I've only send 1 welcome message so far and indicated that I did.
> >
> > m
> >
> >
> > On Wed, Mar 30, 2016 at 9:02 AM, joost schouppe
> >  wrote:
> > > Ruben, someone actually did, I believe it was Pierre Parmentier who made
> > the
> > > translation for us.
> > > BTW, I'm having to log in again at every click of the button right now...
> > >
> > > Marc, I see you've helped out analyzing the changesets. Did you also send
> > > the welcome message? (you need to ctrl+c at the welcome message page,
> > paste
> > > it in the new tab, close the tab and mark the "I've sent this message"
> > > button)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > ___
> > > Talk-be mailing list
> > > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> > >
> >
> > ___
> > Talk-be mailing list
> > Talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-be
> >

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] welcoming new mappers

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 29 March 2016 16:00:27, joost schouppe:
> Hi,
> 
> As some of you know, I've been sending welcome messages to all new Belgian
> mappers. First to let them know there is a local community (and how to find
> us). Second to keep an eye on them, as some of them do break things.
> 
> Ruben made a nice little tool to make this easier. It could all be much
> better (the source code looks ugly, according to Ruben), but I like working
> with the thing. The only problem is: I can't find the time to look at all
> the changesets and send all the messages. Especially as I still have to
> catch up for my holidays in February.
> 
> http://osmwelcome.unitedbashers.com/index.php
> 
> More eyes means a better website. And if we get a tweaked a bit more, maybe
> we can expand the toolkit to other countries. Of course, as Simon Poole
> would say, the site is not necessary at all. It's just really damn
> practical, especially if more than one person does the welcoming.
> 
> You are encouraged to make your own welcome message, but there is a French,
> Dutch and English version available.
> Go ahead and try; you can just log-in with your OSM account. If you need
> more info, contact me and/or Ruben.

If native French speakers could review the French message, that would be great. 
:)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Ghent University helps you in finding your way indoors!

[Ruben Maes]

Dear Nico

I received your email three times: twice in my talk-be inbox and once in my 
generic inbox, sent to me outside the list.

It seems that you have consulted the list of subscribers to this mailing list 
and sent them private e-mails. That is inappropriate. I consider this spam and 
will most certainly not be interacting with the links you send.

Regards
Ruben

Sunday 27 March 2016 15:35:55, Nico Van de Weghe:
> Dear colleague,
> 
> 
> Are you tired of explaining the route to your office, a meeting room, a 
> lecture room ...? Or did you ever get lost in a building? Many have tried to 
> solve the problem of indoor navigation with state-of-the-art technologies. 
> All of them have failed. Let's create a community that's smarter than that. 
> Together, we can put the world on the indoor map.
> 
> To achieve that goal, we need your help. Explore the SoleWay 
> website, explore the existing routes, and enter 
> your routes in order to help others to find their way around! Why not start 
> with your own office, and then just refer to that route when visitors ask how 
> they can find you (see, for example, "office location" in my signature). Why 
> not ask your colleagues to create their routes, or just create a route 
> somewhere on this planet? The crowd will appreciate your contribution!
> 
> The SoleWay team (Explore the world - start indoors!)
> 
> *Feed-back can be given via 
> soleway.supp...@lists.ugent.be or by 
> replying to this e-mail.
> 
> ---
> Prof. dr. Nico Van de Weghe
> Ghent University - Department of Geography (WE12)
> Belgium - 9000 Ghent - Krijgslaan 281 (S8)
> Tel.: +32 (0)9 264 47 12
> CartoGIS - Office 
> location
> ---


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Mapping Party: infrastructure for the homeless

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 01 March 2016 22:11:06, Julien Fastré:
> But I
> do not know how to map "the last Saturday of the month"...

That would be "Sa[-1]":
Sa[1] is the first Saturday, Sa[2] the second, etc.
Similarly, Sa[-1] is the last Saturday, Sa[-2] the one before, etc.

You can use [1] to evaluate your value. The syntax is explained at [2], albeit 
not very clearly.

[1] http://openingh.openstreetmap.de/evaluation_tool/
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:opening_hours

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[OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 21 January 2016 05:35:11, Marc Gemis:
> At this moment someone is working on converting the GRB data into something
> that can be "easily" imported.
> (...)

Great that we'll have a more or less complete map of the buildings in Flanders.

I know some places where OSM already has much better building information than 
Agiv, mapped with love and local knowledge. Can I make sure those don't get 
overridden by inferior data with a note in the data or something?

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 24 January 2016 18:13:02, Jo:
> You could add note on them, but there is no guarantee that it gets read or
> acted upon, so it's probably a waste of bytes to do so. There are tools
> that let you watch over certain areas that have your interest, then you can
> revert and send a message to the person who replaced with inferior data to
> no do so in that region.
> 
> I think that's the more sensible way to proceed, but I can't remember the
> names of those tools at the moment.

Thanks Jo. After some searching I found that 
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/ has such functionality.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv import

[Ruben Maes]

Sunday 24 January 2016 19:03:35, Glenn Plas:
> (...)
> In the whole of Stekene, I probably deleted no more than 20 buildings
> on multiple thousands that got imported with good reasons.  Deleting
> is not an issue.
> (...)
> Tag migration and merging takes more time than replaceing the geometry
> itself.  Every time the merge conflict dialog pops up, you'll loose 15
> seconds, multiply that by thousands of buildings...
> (...)

I also mean when the geometry in OSM is actually better than in the GRB. I'm 
thinking in particular about VIVES in Bruges. The GRB building shape is just 
wrong. In OSM it's better (may be not perfect, it's a complex building) and 3D 
mapped.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.18741/3.20325

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[OSM-talk-be] University tagging

[Ruben Maes]

Hi everyone

Those quarterly projects are a really good plan. Do universities count as well? 
;)

As I understand it, the ISCED levels are as follows for Flanders:

Basisonderwijs
1   Lagere school (Primary education)

Secundair onderwijs
2   1e-3e middelbaar (Lower secondary education)
3   4e-6e middelbaar (Upper secondary education)
4   Specialisatie BSO (Post-secondary non-tertiary education)

Hogeschool
5   Professionele bachelor (Short-cycle tertiary education)

Universiteit
6   Academische bachelor (Bachelor or equivalent)
7   Master (Master or equivalent)
8   Doctoraat (Doctoral or equivalent)

which means that universities get isced:level=6;7;8, right? If that's right, 
I'll add all these descriptions to the wiki page.

Wednesday 13 January 2016 07:57:24, eMerzh:
> Merci Marc !
> 
> ISCED semble intéressant... Bien que pas super claire et les spécificités
> belges (fr ou nl ne soit décrite.
> 
> Et sinon, je me suis demandé hier comment marquer les écoles spécialisée
> genre type 1 a 8 pour la communauté française.
> 
> Brice
> Le 12 janv. 2016 10:31 AM, "Marc Gemis"  a écrit :
> 
> > Il y a
> >
> > * http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/ISCED
> > *  en France on utilise par example school:fr=college
> > * operator/religion voir
> > http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:amenity%3Dschool
> >
> > m.
> >
> > 2016-01-12 10:16 GMT+01:00 eMerzh :
> >
> >> Très bonne idée :) i'm in ...
> >> et l'idée d'un projet limité avec un objectif précis est très motivant :)
> >>
> >> des idées comment tagguer des info complémentaire ?  genre le réseau
> >> (libre/ communal / ...) ou le(s) niveaux maternel (y/n), primaire (y/n) ,
> >> etc
> >> ?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Le 11 janvier 2016 à 11:19, lionel bulpa  a
> >> écrit :
> >>
> >>> Bonjour,
> >>>
> >>> Je pense que c'est une bonne idée, en plus, c'est motivant d'avoir un
> >>> objectif. Je pense qu'on avancera plus vite avec un objectif
> >>>
> >>> Lio
> >>>
> >>> --
> >>> From: marc.ge...@gmail.com
> >>> Date: Mon, 11 Jan 2016 10:39:51 +0100
> >>> To: talk-be@openstreetmap.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [OSM-talk-be] BE Quarterly Projects - Défis du trimestre BE
> >>> - BE Driemaandelijks projecten
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> I like the idea of a quarterly project as well. Anything that might get
> >>> people motivated to map is good.
> >>>
> >>> m
> >>>
> >>> 2016-01-10 21:21 GMT+01:00 Bruno Veyckemans 
> >>> :
> >>>
> >>> [FR] Bonjour à tous,
> >>>
> >>> Je viens de découvrir les UK Quarterly Projects
> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Projects qui commence
> >>> 2016 avec le défi de mettre à jour les données "écoles" du Royaume-Uni et
> >>> je trouve géniale cette idée de se concentrer ensemble sur un thème à
> >>> l'échelle du pays.
> >>>
> >>> Question: pourquoi ne pas s'y mettre pour la Belgique ?
> >>>
> >>> C'est ce que j'ai tenté de faire à l'échelle de Bruxelles il y a deux
> >>> mois, avec un beau succès pour les musées:
> >>> http://ici.brussels/liste-musees grâce à certains mappeurs qui m'ont
> >>> suivi sur Twitter, notamment eMerzh (voir stats en-dessous). Comme vous
> >>> pouvez le voir sur le graphique du dessus, le travail a porté ses fruits 
> >>> :)
> >>>
> >>> Pourquoi ne pas commencer nous aussi 2016 avec le projet de mettre à
> >>> jour les écoles de Belgique ? Voici déjà de quoi vous donner une idée du
> >>> chantier, toujours pour Bruxelles: http://ici.brussels/liste-ecoles Si
> >>> l'enthousiasme est là, je peux tenter de faire une interface similaire 
> >>> pour
> >>> toute la Belgique...
> >>>
> >>> Est-ce que vous pensez qu'on peut être suffisamment nombreux sur le coup
> >>> pour que ça fonctionne ? Est-ce que ça a déjà été fait pour la Belgique ?
> >>> Pensez-vous qu'il faille écrire une page de directives sur le wiki pour
> >>> harmoniser le travail, créer un hashtag et des stats d'avancement ? Est-ce
> >>> qu'il vaut mieux commencer avec un thème plus "basique" ? Est-ce que vous
> >>> participerez ?
> >>>
> >>> Merci pour vos commentaires et belle semaine !
> >>> Bruno
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> [EN] Do you think it could be a good idea to launch "BE Quarterly
> >>> Projects" on the model used by UK mappers ?
> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Projects
> >>> Could we begin by mapping belgian schools during the first quarter of
> >>> 2016 ? Would you be part of the project ?
> >>> Thanks !
> >>> Bruno
> >>>
> >>> -
> >>>
> >>> [NL] Vinden jullie een goed idee "Driemaandelijks projecten" te lanceren
> >>> voor België, op het model dat wordt gebruikt door de Britse mappers met 
> >>> hun
> >>> "UK Quarterly Projects"
> >>> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/UK_Quarterly_Projects ? Zouden
> >>> jullie deelnemen ?
> >>> Bedankt !
> >>> Bruno

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] BE Quarterly Project (Schools) - Go !

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 21 January 2016 08:38:46, joost schouppe:
> Come to think of it, a physical school might have several associated
> schools from this CSV file. For example if it is a campus, but also when
> for some reason the building users can convince the Flemish administration
> that they are more than one organization. So your data model should allow
> for more than one set of ID's and names.

That's right. I know a secondary school that's officially 3 schools: one for 
the 1st grade, one for the 2nd and 3rd grade ASO, and one for the 2nd and 3rd 
grade BSO and TSO. Though in practice they operate as one school (same name, 
same buildings, same timetable, same teachers), they each have their own 
headmaster.

It's currently mapped as a single school.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] University tagging

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 21 January 2016 12:57:09, Ben Laenen:
> After some more googling, this site has a perfect overview of all the levels 
> in Flanders:
> 
> http://vlaamsekwalificatiestructuur.be/wat-is-vks/kwalificatieniveaus/

Aha, so would we also want a vks:level tag? Or just apply ISCED levels?

I tried to figure it all out based on [1] and [2]. ([2] applies ISCED 1997 to 
our Flemish structure, but we're mapping ISCED 2011. Wikipedia provides a 
comparison of those two schemes.) This becomes:
__

VKS 19972011Name
Basischool
/   0   0   Kleuteronderwijs
1   1   1   Lager onderwijs

Middelbare school
/   2   2   1ste graad secundair onderwijs

2   /   /   2de graad BSO
/   /   /   2de graad ASO, TSO, KSO

3   3   3   3de graad BSO; deeltijds 
beroepssecundair onderwijs
4   3   3   3de graad ASO, TSO, KSO

4   4   4   Extra jaar ASO, TSO, KSO, of 
BSO of specialisatie BSO

Hogeschool
5   5B  5   HBO5
6   5B  5   Professionele bachelor
7   5B? 5?  Master (of arts of zo?)

Universiteit
6   5A  6   Academische bachelor
7   5A  7   Master
8   6   8   Doctoraat
__

A slash denotes that the scale does not have a level for the end of that grade.

I can't get my head around masters in hogescholen. I can only find information 
about master of arts and don't know for sure at what level those are.

So for example tagging a secondary school without BSO or extra years would be:
vks:level=4
isced:level=2;3

One with ASO, TSO, KSO and BSO, with or without specialisation:
vks:level=2;3;4
isced:level=2;3;4

One with only BSO without specialisation year:
vks:level=2;3
isced:level=2;3

With specialisation:
vks:level=2;3;4
isced:level=2;3;4

[1] http://vlaamsekwalificatiestructuur.be/wat-is-vks/kwalificatieniveaus/
[2] 
http://gpseducation.oecd.org/Content/MapOfEducationSystem/BEL/BEL_1997_EN.pdf 
(http://gpseducation.oecd.org/Content/MapOfEducationSystem/BEL/BEL_1997_LL.pdf 
in Dutch for Flanders)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] University tagging

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 21 January 2016 15:51:44, Marc Gemis:
> This could be added to the BENELUX preset for JOSM if you want. Just
> let me know when you agree on the tagging. Or add it yourself to
> https://josm.openstreetmap.de/wiki/Presets/BENELUX   :-)

That would be great, thanks :)

I added my analysis of the VKS and ISCED levels to the wiki page, so that 
people looking for it on the wiki can find it.

While making the examples I started wondering where to put those level tags for 
universities, or other schools with lots of campuses. Would it be feasible to 
make a relation for the university or is that too collection-like? Or repeat 
the tags for each campus, but then we would have to know for each location what 
levels are done there (it may be that e.g. bachelor students never have to 
enter specific buildings).

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[OSM-talk-be] Nieuwe Agiv-beelden!

[Ruben Maes]

[en] Agiv released new aerial imagery of Flanders.

[nl] Ik heb net (toevallig tijdens het mappen) gemerkt dat Agiv gisteren de 
nieuwe winterorthomozaïek van 2015 heeft uitgegeven. Ga dus maar allemaal in je 
editor naar die plaatsen waar je dacht 'allez, wanneer gaan ze hier nieuwe 
fotootjes van tonen'! ;)

https://www.agiv.be/news/2016/januari/update-middenschalige-orthofotomozaiek-winteropnamen

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Friendliness with attacked mapped places in Paris

[Ruben Maes]

Hi

I'm sorry, but just no. Though I am personally shocked just like everyone else, 
I feel that OSM is IMO not the place for these kind of messages. I would rather 
have your changeset reverted.

Furthermore, you have no right to speak on behalf of *all* OSM mappers. There 
may even be terrorists here for all we know.

If this were to appear in the press like you suggest, I would feel ashamed and 
have the feeling that we are using the events for our own cause, which too many 
people are already doing.

Regards
Ruben


Saturday 14 November 2015 17:14:57, André Pirard:
> Hi,
> 
> OpenstreetMap often extends friendliness by humanitarian tagging.
> In this case of desolation, there is little to tag.  Little...
> Wikipedia have been extremely fast
>  in all
> languages !!!
> After some mourning period, the note below may be replaced by this (but
> how?):
> Attentats du 13 novembre 2015 en Île-de-France
> 
> 
> I have just uploaded this change set (scroll down the left pane):
> Our deepest condolences about the horrible terrorist attacks that
> happened here on 2015-11-13.
> 
> It adds the following note 
> to the OSM elements at the 6 attacked locations.
> (they were perfectly mapped, bravo)
> > Nos plus sincères condoléances à propos des monstrueuses attaques
> > terroristes qui ont eu lieu ici le 2015-11-13. Vous avez l'amitié de
> > tous les contributeurs à OpenStreetMap de par le monde.
> In their language.  Sorry no room for added English in <256 characters. 
> Translates to:
> Our deepest condolences about the horrible terrorist attacks that
> happened here on 2015-11-13.
> Receive the friendship of all the Openstreetmap contributors around the
> world.
> 
> Please forward this to other concerned OSM mailing lists.
> Please let me know any change you come to an agreement with.
> I will make any change easily using my *.osm file.
> 
> By Monday, you may like to send the URL to the Press.
> It won't be bad advertising for OpenStreetMap to show the places and to
> join the world's cry .
> But let us hope that vandalism will not be added to terrorism.
> 
> Cheers
> 
> André.
> 
> 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Friendliness with attacked mapped places in Paris

[Ruben Maes]

14/11/2015 18:07:06, André Pirard:
> On 2015-11-14 17:24, Ruben Maes wrote :
> > Hi
> >
> > I'm sorry, but just no. Though I am personally shocked just like everyone 
> > else, I feel that OSM is IMO not the place for these kind of messages. I 
> > would rather have your changeset reverted.
> My mind was not agreeing with my heart when clicking "send" because I
> feared this reply.
> > Furthermore, you have no right to speak on behalf of *all* OSM mappers. 
> That is exactly why I posted this message, to know the general opinion
> about it.
> At this time, it's 1 no 2 yes.
> I'm waiting for more reactions and if there is not a strong majority of
> yeses, I will revert.
> So, please say yes if you feel like it, not just no.

Of course my thoughts are with the victims, but adding it to the map is not the 
way, just because it is not something that belongs in a GIS. Besides, all that 
attention is exactly what those filthy terrorists want!

> By all means, do not tell anybody else that the OSM community until a
> decision is made by Monday.
> 
> And please everybody, say something else that just noes and tell us what
> you think about the Wikipedia link.  That is, a link that is not the
> website of the element but to information related to it.

We don't add tags to the Bristish Parliament for the Gunpowder Treason page, or 
to some random grass field for the Waterloo Battle, or such things. If a 
monument is erected for these attacks, you can map the monument and add the 
monument's Wikipedia page and Wikidata item to the monument's OSM object. The 
Wikidata item should link to both the item for the events and all involved 
locations.

Wikipedia and Wikidata tags should point to the item about the object itself, 
and nothing else.

> > There may even be terrorists here for all we know.
> >
> > If this were to appear in the press like you suggest, I would feel ashamed 
> > and have the feeling that we are using the events for our own cause, which 
> > too many people are already doing.
> I don't feel like that at all.  There is no boasting.
> Would you suppress humanitarian tagging about which there is much boasting?

Humanitarian tagging is actually helping the victims. We can tell the world 
that we are doing this because some people will say, "Hey, I can actually help 
this way instead of changing my profile picture", and that will make the next 
crisis response even better.

> Cheers
> 
> André.
> 
> 
> > Regards
> > Ruben
> >
> >
> > Saturday 14 November 2015 17:14:57, André Pirard:
> >> Hi,
> >>
> >> OpenstreetMap often extends friendliness by humanitarian tagging.
> >> In this case of desolation, there is little to tag.  Little...
> >> Wikipedia have been extremely fast
> >> <https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/November_2015_Paris_attacks> in all
> >> languages !!!
> >> After some mourning period, the note below may be replaced by this (but
> >> how?):
> >> Attentats du 13 novembre 2015 en Île-de-France
> >> <https://fr.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attentats_du_13_novembre_2015_en_%C3%8Ele-de-France>
> >>
> >> I have just uploaded this change set (scroll down the left pane):
> >> Our deepest condolences about the horrible terrorist attacks that
> >> happened here on 2015-11-13.
> >> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/changeset/35307155>
> >> It adds the following note <http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:note>
> >> to the OSM elements at the 6 attacked locations.
> >> (they were perfectly mapped, bravo)
> >>> Nos plus sincères condoléances à propos des monstrueuses attaques
> >>> terroristes qui ont eu lieu ici le 2015-11-13. Vous avez l'amitié de
> >>> tous les contributeurs à OpenStreetMap de par le monde.
> >> In their language.  Sorry no room for added English in <256 characters. 
> >> Translates to:
> >> Our deepest condolences about the horrible terrorist attacks that
> >> happened here on 2015-11-13.
> >> Receive the friendship of all the Openstreetmap contributors around the
> >> world.
> >>
> >> Please forward this to other concerned OSM mailing lists.
> >> Please let me know any change you come to an agreement with.
> >> I will make any change easily using my *.osm file.
> >>
> >> By Monday, you may like to send the URL to the Press.
> >> It won't be bad advertising for OpenStreetMap to show the places and to
> >> join the world's cry .
> >> But let us hope that vandalism will not be added to terrorism.
> >>
> >> Cheers
> >>
> >> André.
> >>
> >>
> >
> 


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Agiv

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 27 October 2015 12:43:42, Louis van Boeckel:
> Agiv heeft de luchtbeelden van 2014 vrijgeven, hoe krijg ik die in josm! 
> of is er iemand die dat kan doen.

Ik geloof dat de "AGIV(laanderen) aerial imagery (covers Brussels region as 
well) (2013)" steeds de laatste beelden zijn, hoewel er 2013 in de naam staat.

Die bron staat in het menu Imagery van JOSM als je een gebied in België 
bekijkt. Zo niet gebruik je waarschijnlijk een oudere versie van JOSM en moet 
je het aanzetten in de Imagery preferences.

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[OSM-talk-be] Mappingparty in Gent

[Ruben Maes]

*English below*

Tijdens de Mini-Hackathon in september, die uiteindelijk is uitgedraaid op een 
gewone meetup, hebben Joost en ik het idee opgevat om een mappingparty in Gent 
te organiseren op 4 november. Het zou zijn voor mappers die al wat ervaring 
hebben, niet gericht op nieuwe mappers.

Joost gaat het ook nog op Meetup zetten.

Later zouden we ook nog eens een mappingparty kunnen doen in Gent die dan wel 
gericht is op nieuwe mappers.



During the mini Hackathon in September Joost and I got the idea to organize a 
mapping party in Ghent on 4 November. It would be for mappers with some 
experience, not for new ones.

Joost will also put the event on Meetup.

Later we could also do a mapping party in Ghent for new mappers.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Portal for end users

[Ruben Maes]

Tuesday 15 September 2015 15:12:12, Alex Barth:
> On Tue, Sep 15, 2015 at 2:01 PM, Paul Johnson  wrote:
> 
> > It actually appears they are claiming to do so (based on Mapbox
> > attribution), though I question how recent their snapshot is or how they're
> > coming to some of the conclusions they are in the Tulsa area
> 
> 
> Paul - Ian's spot on: the new Mapquest maps on http://beta.mapquest.com/
> are OSM except in the US where they're TomTom.

I am disgusted to find out that (while the map is definitely OSM) they aren't 
using OSM's POIs in Belgium.


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] A12 motorway

[Ruben Maes]

Saturday 05 September 2015 20:16:16, Erik Beerten:
> AX: te ontwerpen van N31 (Brugge - Blauwe Toren) tot N49/A11 (West-kapelle)"
Note that the AX has already changed ref and will join the A11. Eventually the 
A11 will go from Antwerp to Brugge Blauwe Toren.

http://www.a11verbindt.be/

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] missing affiliation on BIPT website

[Ruben Maes]

Thursday 27 August 2015 07:26:47, Nicolas Pettiaux:
 Would any of you have ideas or suggestions (and the time) to contribute 
 to the letter that I would send ?

I keep an archive of the letters I send at the wiki[1]. I posted them to the 
list prior to sending them and no-one complained :p

They're in Dutch but maybe you can draw some inspiration from them. Does anyone 
else have such a list of their sent letters?

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:M!dgard/Copyrightbrieven

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[OSM-talk-be] Meetup

[Ruben Maes]

As part of the still ongoing manual welcome new mappers effort, I just 
welcomed Ruben. He joined the Meetup group and would like to attend one. Any 
plans for an upcoming one?

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Re: [OSM-talk] OpenStreetMap Carto v2.33.0 release

[Ruben Maes]

Saturday 15 August 2015 12:59:55, Paul Norman:
 On 8/15/2015 4:26 AM, Dave F. wrote:
  Hi
 
  Does the combined wood/forest update include landcover=trees? If not 
  it needs to be included all three should render the same (IMO).
 
 No. Nor are there any issues created about rendering landcover=trees. As 
 the landcover key is currently not in the database, it is not happening 
 in the short-term either.

https://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/landcover

17 117 occurences is not 'not in the database'. Sure, it's only 0.12% of all 
landuses, but this is a key that isn't even rendered on the default style.

 For clarity, this is not to imply that we will or will not render 
 landcover=trees. As there's no issue about it, it hasn't been discussed.

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Re: [OSM-talk] History of specific areas

[Ruben Maes]

On Thursday 13 August 2015 08:22:59 Maarten Deen wrote:
 Is there a tool available to search for the history of items in a 
 specific area? OSM History Viewer only works if you have the id of an 
 object. I don't know if OWL can do it because it is offline.
 I don't have the id for the node, I just know something was there and 
 has been deleted at some point.

I think you may be looking for WhoDidIt:
http://simon04.dev.openstreetmap.org/whodidit/

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Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[Ruben Maes]

On Thursday 13 August 2015 21:54:39 Warin wrote:
 Leave the node data in OSM, change the tag building=yes to 
 building=demolished (may not be rendered nor official OSM tagging) add a 
 note as to who/why ..

I advocate using demolished:building=yes as described in 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Lifecycle_prefix. This is clearer for data 
consumers.

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Re: [OSM-talk] stop deleting abandoned railroads

[Ruben Maes]

On Thursday 13 August 2015 15:10:14 Mateusz Konieczny wrote:
 On Thu, 13 Aug 2015 21:54:39 +1000
 Warin 61sundow...@gmail.com wrote:
 
  For example a demolished building .. may have a new building built on 
  the same spot .. with the same outline.
  Leave the node data in OSM, change the tag building=yes to 
  building=demolished (may not be rendered nor official OSM tagging)
  add a note as to who/why ..
  and then if rebuilt change the tag back to building=yes... with a
  source tag please.
  If the site has a different shaped building then the nodes will have
  to be changed, or the site gets used for something else .. then
  change it. But untill then leave the old data there.
 
 This is a bad idea. Maybe [note=this building is demolished] to protect
 against mapping from outdated aerial images may be OK.
 
 But expecting data consumers displaying buildings to filter out
 building=demolished, building=razed, building=proposed etc etc is a
 really bad idea.

Or you use demolished:building=yes as I said an hour ago.

This is clearer than a note IMO,
allows to retain all tags of the demolished building for reference and
caters for potential data consumers interested in demolished buildings.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Welcoming platform (was: publieke telefooncellen / public telephones)

[Ruben Maes]

2015-07-31 14:47 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:
 Great initiative!

 I might be interested to help, if we could consider implementing it in
 Django/Python.

Currently it's in PHP (hey don't laugh, some big sites use that too)
but I'm very open to learning new languages. :)

 I'm brooding on plans to report about public transport and cycle/walking
 routes as well.

 Polyglot

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[OSM-talk-be] Welcoming platform (was: publieke telefooncellen / public telephones)

[Ruben Maes]

Op 30 juli 2015 23:02 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com:
 2015-07-30 18:43 GMT+00:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:

 Het allemaal met de hand verifiëren klinkt leuk maar zoveel actieve
 mappers hebben we niet ...

 Dat is inderdaad het probleem... We proberen al heel lang om meer mensen
 actief te betrekken maar dat is niet gemakkelijk en veel werk.
 Welcome-messages helpen echt wel volgens mij dus enorm bedankt om daaraan
 mee te werken! Het is hier in ieder geval al een stuk drukker dan een paar
 jaar geleden, hoe dat komt weet ik niet zeker! ;-)

I'm making a proof-of-concept of a platform to help us welcome new
mappers. Joost Schouppe has made this Google Sheet[1] which is awesome
but we both agree something better can be built.

What the platform currently can do:
* import a CSV with the mappers from the Google Sheet (so work we've
done there isn't lost!)
* request and parse
http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosmcountryfeed.php?c=Belgium to
detect new mappers
* fetch the changesets of new users and determine their primary
editor, and if they use iD also their language
* show a profile for each new contributor with their number of
changesets, picture e.a. (one-page static preview at [2])
* show a list of new contributors (with a summary of their profile)
* generate custom welcome messages based on their language and editor

What I would like it to do:
* store notes for each contributor (and the author of the note) and a
description of what they've done (partially present: can only be
imported, not yet edited)
* maybe store a more elaborate history of the correspondence with a contributor
* show some stats
* be able to generate potential vandalism messages
* be hosted on osm.be

I'm not that good at programming and the PHP code's currently a mess :p
I would like to start over with some help. If you would like to help, please do!


[1] 
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/116b0HzWb3dCFy6Qp52pEGgRZXPTXWKyf8YWxSapXZQ4/edit
[2] http://rumores.eu/osm-welcome/preview.html

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Re: [OSM-talk] name:etymology:wikidata

[Ruben Maes]

2015-07-31 17:21 GMT+02:00 Lester Caine les...@lsces.co.uk:
 On 31/07/15 16:09, Jo wrote:
 That's what is proposed here though:
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Wikidata

 And it keeps that particular wikidata tag nicely together with the name
 when sorted alphabetically.

 I don't see any point loading our servers down with wikidata content. If
 you want the data that goes with a 'wikidata=*' entry then simply ask
 wikidata for it. Same with wikipedia and other data sources. If you want
 a sorted list get wikidata to provide it ...

He means that when you view it in JOSM, where tags are listed
alphabetically, they are nicely grouped together.

Well-written software should know that anything longer that 3
characters cannot be a language code and should ignore it if it isn't
interested. Especially when it has a colon in it.

This kind of information is interesting. Please go on Jo :)

I'd say make a reference to the actual object is named after, not just
to 'church'.

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Re: [OSM-talk] name:etymology:wikidata

[Ruben Maes]

2015-07-31 17:31 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:
 I'd say make a reference to the actual object is named after, not just
 to 'church'.

Although this might not always be clear. There is a street called
Church Street near me and it has two churches. Which church is the
street named after? Some historical research has to be done there.
Perhaps it was named after the two churches, in which case there'd
have to be two references? Is there any way to do that apart from the
hated semi-colon separated list?

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

Op 30 juli 2015 23:02 schreef Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com:
 Ik vind marc zijn idee wel goed, we moeten meer van zo een opportuniteit
 gebruik maken om OSM op te promoten, zoals met de nieuwe situatie in
 Brussel. Als er iemand toegang wil tot osm.be om te bloggen, gewoon mij even
 mailen en het is in orde! Misschien moeten we het omkeren en een actie doen
 van wij twijfelen wel of écht alle telefooncellen weg zijn en help ons
 zoeken ;-)

Klinkt goed, alles is goed om nieuwe mappers te lokken :)

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] openpoimap voor verkeersborden in Belgie

[Ruben Maes]

Op 30 juli 2015 17:27 schreef Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:
 On 30-07-15 13:01, Ben Laenen wrote:
 On Wednesday 29 July 2015 22:31:55 Ruben Maes wrote:
 Hoe worden uitgezonderd bla bla bla-onderborden getagd? Ik heb er
eentje
 traffic_sign=BE:C3,uitgezonderd bus en taxi, laden en lossen

 Officieel volgens wiki op deze idiote manier waarvan je er een paar van
 mij zult vinden in de OSM DB:

 traffic_sign=BE:C3;Type-IV

Ik geloof dat dat dan per de wikipagina met een komma moet (BE:C3,Type-IV)
aangezien het een gerelateerd bord is?

If traffic signs are related, the additional sign IDs should be separated
from the main sign by comma ,

 Dat is dat bord.   Wat een fantastisch idee toch om die onderborden niet
 onder te verdelen op eenduidige manier.

 http://www.wegcode.be/wetteksten/secties/mb/mb-111076/868-hs2art13

 Maar Type-IV zegt niet wat er op het bord staat.  Best wel annoying punt
 van verkeersborden in dit land.

En de wegcode 4° Type IV : Beperking van een verbod of van een gebod voor
zekere categorieën van voertuigen klopt niet eens echt: laden en lossen is
geen voertuigcategorie.

Ook leuk zijn deze:

​Uitgezonderd 6-12 uur en op de laatste zondag van de paasvakantie
1e-15e-16e en de laatste dag van de maand
Uitgezonderd De Lijn, taxi's en laden en lossen van 6 tot 11u en van 19 tot
20u en uitgezonderd toegang garages; uitgezonderd fietsen en bromfietsen
klasse A

Heerlijk toch, en zelfs niet eens eenduidig.
​
En als de verkeersbordkaart moeite heeft met meerdere borden aan één paal,
moeten we ook zeker deze eens mappen:

​
De dijk van Wenduine, de Markt van Brugge en de Smet de Naeyerlaan in
Blankenberge, respectievelijk.

België is gewoon verschrikkelijk op vlak van verkeersborden.
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

Op donderdag 30 juli 2015 heeft Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com
het volgende geschreven:
 Hey,
 Ik ben het wel eerder eens met de opmerking van woodpeck.
 We corrigeren bushaltes van de lijn, vinden fouten in data van het AGIV,
ik denk dat het niet onrealistisch is om te stellen dat proximus ook niet
100% zeker weet waar alle telefooncellen staan. Ze zijn dan misschien niet
meer actief, maar ze bestaan misschien nog wel.

Als ze niet meer werken, moeten ze verwijderd worden. Voor een winkel die
weg is laat je ook de shop-tag niet staan.

 Wat in de pers komt is trouwens nooit echt te vertrouwen, zouden de
journalisten overal gaan kijken zijn, of zijn ze aan het mailen geweest met
mensen bij proximus?

Goed punt. Ik vertrouw de pers ook al lang niet meer en naar ik gehoord heb
staat het hokje er hier en daar wel nog. Maar je zal de telefoon als die er
nog in zit niet meer kunnen gebruiken.

 Ik ben dus duidelijk tegen het verwijderen op deze manier zonder lokale
kennis van zaken.

Het allemaal met de hand verifiëren klinkt leuk maar zoveel actieve mappers
hebben we niet ...

 Met vriendelijke groeten,
 Best regards,

 Ben Abelshausen
 On Thu, Jul 30, 2015 at 1:10 PM, wannes wanne...@gmail.com wrote:

 Ok. I removed 3 non existing phonebooths. Will clean/survey Antwerp as
soon as possible :-)

 On Tue, Jul 28, 2015 at 12:32 PM, Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com wrote:

 Yes, both of those actions would be great!

 You can add your comment in a 'note' tag.

 2015-07-28 12:26 GMT+02:00 wannes wanne...@gmail.com:
  Op 28 jul. 2015 12:13 PM schreef Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:
 
 
  En nu het rare: er waren 320 telefooncellen met operator die ik heb
  verwijderd. Nu ik eens kijk naar alle telefonen
  (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL), blijkt dat er nu nog exact 320
  overblijven!
 
  It has been a while for me and OSM.
  If I do a survey for one of these 320 and I see no phoneboot, I
remove the
  node?
  (Some are right around the corner)
 
  If I see one of these 320 that is still there. Would it be useful to
add a
  comment to the node? Yes, verified 2015-07-28, still in place, do not
  remove
 
 
  Et maintenant l'étrange : j'ai enlevé 320 téléphones. Maintenant je
  regarde tous les téléphones (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL) et
  Overpass montre qu'il en reste encore exactement 320!

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] openpoimap voor verkeersborden in Belgie

[Ruben Maes]

De plug-in doet meer dan alleen de verkeersborden erop zetten, hij
probeert ook toe te voegen wat dat bord betekent. Zo'n turn
restrictions moeten eigenlijk op een relatie worden gezet[1], maar de
plug-in doet dat niet. Ik vind het zelf ook nogal raar.

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Relation:restriction


Op 30 juli 2015 11:11 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com:
 Ik wilde ook wel wat verkeersborden mappen met behulp van de plugin  maar ik
 stoot op waarschuwingen die in niet begrijp.

 Als ik een node plaats op (of zelfs naast ) een weg vult de plugin volgende
 gegevens in:

 restriction= only_right_turn

 type= restriction.

 Als ik de gegevens wil bijwerken krijg ik de waarschuwing:

 Restriction=*on a node, Should be used in a relation(1)



 Wat doe ik verkeerd?



 Guy Vanvuchelen



 Van: Jo [mailto:winfi...@gmail.com]
 Verzonden: woensdag 29 juli 2015 23:02
 Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
 Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] openpoimap voor verkeersborden in Belgie



 Spijtig genoeg is dat van die onderborden me ook niet helemaal duidelijk.

 Ik heb wel de RoadSigns plugin voorzien van data voor de Belgische
 verkeersborden.

 Dit bord wordt niet correct weergegeven op de OpenPOImap:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/node/3670114215

 Is dat omdat het een gecombineerd bord is?

 Jo



 Op 29 juli 2015 22:31 schreef Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:

 Hoe worden uitgezonderd bla bla bla-onderborden getagd? Ik heb er eentje
 traffic_sign=BE:C3,uitgezonderd bus en taxi, laden en lossen

 Op 29 juli 2015 22:07 schreef Marc Zoutendijk marczoutend...@mac.com:
 Werkend aan openpoimap kwam het verzoek van verschillende kanten of dat
 ook
 geschikt zou kunnen worden gemaakt om verkeersborden te laten zien.
 Na enig sleutelwerk, testen en met de hulp van Frankvandermeersch is er
 (al
 geruime tijd) een versie die werkt voor de Belgische verkeersborden.
 Het heet Taglocator Verkeersborden BE en is hier te vinden:

 http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~marczoutendijk/openpoimap/bevb/

 Een voorbeeld met een aantal verkeersborden staat hier:


 http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~marczoutendijk/openpoimap/bevb/?map=art67zoom=17lat=50.78307lon=3.18938layers=B00TTFTFFTF

 Er zitten nogal wat haken en ogen aan (wat te doen met meerdere borden op
 een paal bv), nog niet alle borden zijn aanwezig en er is wat discussie
 over
 de juiste benaming van de borden en de wijze van taggen is soms
 onduidelijk.

 Het valt in ieder geval op dat er nog weinig verkeersborden op de kaart
 staan.
 Ik heb er de laatste maanden niet veel meer aan verder ontwikkeld en wacht
 feitelijk op input van de gebruikers…

 Marc.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

Op 28 juli 2015 12:39 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 door het schrijven van een diary entry loop je nu het risico van de
 anti-automated-edit-politie op je dak te krijgen.

Lap, 't is al van dat ¬_¬

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] openpoimap voor verkeersborden in Belgie

[Ruben Maes]

Hoe worden uitgezonderd bla bla bla-onderborden getagd? Ik heb er eentje
traffic_sign=BE:C3,uitgezonderd bus en taxi, laden en lossen

Op 29 juli 2015 22:07 schreef Marc Zoutendijk marczoutend...@mac.com:
 Werkend aan openpoimap kwam het verzoek van verschillende kanten of dat ook
 geschikt zou kunnen worden gemaakt om verkeersborden te laten zien.
 Na enig sleutelwerk, testen en met de hulp van Frankvandermeersch is er (al
 geruime tijd) een versie die werkt voor de Belgische verkeersborden.
 Het heet Taglocator Verkeersborden BE en is hier te vinden:

 http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~marczoutendijk/openpoimap/bevb/

 Een voorbeeld met een aantal verkeersborden staat hier:

 http://mijndev.openstreetmap.nl/~marczoutendijk/openpoimap/bevb/?map=art67zoom=17lat=50.78307lon=3.18938layers=B00TTFTFFTF

 Er zitten nogal wat haken en ogen aan (wat te doen met meerdere borden op
 een paal bv), nog niet alle borden zijn aanwezig en er is wat discussie over
 de juiste benaming van de borden en de wijze van taggen is soms onduidelijk.

 Het valt in ieder geval op dat er nog weinig verkeersborden op de kaart
 staan.
 Ik heb er de laatste maanden niet veel meer aan verder ontwikkeld en wacht
 feitelijk op input van de gebruikers…

 Marc.






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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Help us make a logo! (and win tickets to State of the Map 2016!)

[Ruben Maes]

Hi everyone

I just realised this might interest some of you.
As you know State of the Map is in Brussels next year. And they need a
logo! There's a contest and there aren't many entries yet.
(https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2016/Logo_entries)
So if you got an idea and can use Inkscape or Illustrator or the like,
give it a shot!

I've drawn something myself but there must be people who can do a better job.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Rob Nickerson rob.j.nicker...@gmail.com
Date: 2015-07-16 21:38 GMT+02:00
Subject: [OSM-talk] Help us make a logo! (and win tickets to State of
the Map 2016!)
To: OpenStreetMap t...@openstreetmap.org


The State of the Map working group is pleased* to announce a call for
logo designs. We need your help to build a strong recognisable logo
for State of the Map 2016 (SotM) conference taking place in Brussels,
Belgium. The conference is the OpenStreetMap Foundation’s annual
gathering of the OSM community, interested parties and others.

We’ve put together a Design Brief which outlines what we’re looking
for in a logo. Entrants can be an individual or team of people, even a
design company.

http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/State_Of_The_Map_2016/Logo_brief

The deadline for entries is 23:59 UTC (before midnight) on Saturday
15th August 2015 and we can’t wait to see your all your wonderful
entries!

Good luck!

Rob,
On behalf of the SotM WG

* In fact we're delighted - this has been something we've done for
previous SotM's and it is always amazing to see your logo ideas :-D

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

(tentative de français en bas)

Dit leek me perfect om eens een echt dagboekbericht over te schrijven:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/M!dgard/diary/35474

Ik heb alleen de telefoontjes met operator Belgacom of Proximus (van
die laatste waren er wel geen) weggedaan. De rest moet allicht worden
gesurveyed; er zijn misschien nog andere telefooncellen.

En nu het rare: er waren 320 telefooncellen met operator die ik heb
verwijderd. Nu ik eens kijk naar alle telefonen
(http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL), blijkt dat er nu nog exact 320
overblijven!

---

Cela me semblait parfait pour écrire une véritable entrée de journal:

https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/M!dgard/diary/35474

J'ai enlevé seulement les téléphones avec opérateur Belgacom ou
Proximus (il n'y avait aucun avec ce dernier). Le reste devrait
probablement surveyé ; il peut y avoir d'autres téléphones.

Et maintenant l'étrange : j'ai enlevé 320 téléphones. Maintenant je
regarde tous les téléphones (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL) et
Overpass montre qu'il en reste encore exactement 320!

Op 28 juli 2015 05:28 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 Laat je nog even weten hoeveel je er nog hebt verwijderd ?

 m

 2015-07-27 22:15 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:

 Ik heb net een mail gekregen van een nieuwe mapper die ik een
 welkomstbericht had gestuurd. Hij vraagt of er een manier is om alle
 telefoonhokjes in één keer te verwijderen.

 Natuurlijk kan ik hem daarmee helpen, maar ik wou even vragen of
 iemand er bezwaar tegen heeft als ik met Overpass alle
 amenity=telephones met operator~[Bb]elgacom|[Pp]roximus in JOSM laadt
 en ze verwijder?

 Op 1 juni 2015 16:26 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com:
  Zojuist op het (radio) nieuws gehoord dat de laatste afgebroken is!
 
 
 
  Guy Vanvuchelen
 
 
 
  Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
  Verzonden: maandag 1 juni 2015 16:08
  Aan: Jo Hannes; OpenStreetMap Belgium
  Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones
 
 
 
  Volgens het artikel in humo, werden die in/aan het centraal station van
  Antwerpen (of was het een ander station) afgebroken.
 
  Er waren er wel een paar die niet verwijderd konden worden (toen het
  artikel
  werd geschreven), omdat er nog stroom op de kabel zat, of de cabine zo
  verankerd was in de omgeving dat het niet mogelijk was. Misschien dat
  die
  ondertussen al wel verwijderd zijn, maar misschien ook niet.
 
 
 
  m.
 
 
 
 
 
  2015-06-01 16:01 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:
 
  In stations en 'toeristische' plaatsen zou 'k verwachten dat er toch nog
  een
  aantal over blijven.
 
  Jo
 
 
 
  Op 1 juni 2015 15:56 schreef Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com:
 
 
 
  Mogen verwijderd worden zonder survey ?
 
  Marc Gemis schreef op 27/05/2015 om 6:55:
 
  Hallo,
 
  Jullie hebben het misschien al gehoord, maar tegen 1 juni zouden alle
  publieke telefooncellen van Belgacom moeten verdwenen zijn uit het
  straatbeeld. Volgens een artikel in een weekblad zal het misschien wel
  langer duren. Maar misschien is het wel het moment om eens op OSM te
  kijken of er nog in je buurt staan ?
 
 
 
  You might have heard it before, but Belgacom hopes to remove all phone
  booths by June 1. According to an article in a magazine, it might take a
  bit longer, but it might still be a good moment to start cleaning up OSM
  and remove phone booths that are no longer there.
 
  happy mapping
 
  m
 
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

Op 28 juli 2015 12:39 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 door het schrijven van een diary entry loop je nu het risico van de
 anti-automated-edit-politie op je dak te krijgen.

Ah ja, juist.
Maar ik heb wel de regeltjes gevolgd denk ik (hoop ik). Eerst overleg
met de lokale community (met wat goede wil kan je zeggen dat dat al in
juni is gestart), een entry op de wiki met wat ik precies doe, goed
uitkijken terwijl ik bezig ben, en een zeer specifieke query (alleen
die van Belgacom, waar we zeker van zijn dat er geen meer bestaan).

Als ze daarover klagen, klagen ze gewoon om te klagen :p



 m.

 2015-07-28 12:12 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:

 (tentative de français en bas)

 Dit leek me perfect om eens een echt dagboekbericht over te schrijven:

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/M!dgard/diary/35474

 Ik heb alleen de telefoontjes met operator Belgacom of Proximus (van
 die laatste waren er wel geen) weggedaan. De rest moet allicht worden
 gesurveyed; er zijn misschien nog andere telefooncellen.

 En nu het rare: er waren 320 telefooncellen met operator die ik heb
 verwijderd. Nu ik eens kijk naar alle telefonen
 (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL), blijkt dat er nu nog exact 320
 overblijven!

 ---

 Cela me semblait parfait pour écrire une véritable entrée de journal:

 https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/M!dgard/diary/35474

 J'ai enlevé seulement les téléphones avec opérateur Belgacom ou
 Proximus (il n'y avait aucun avec ce dernier). Le reste devrait
 probablement surveyé ; il peut y avoir d'autres téléphones.

 Et maintenant l'étrange : j'ai enlevé 320 téléphones. Maintenant je
 regarde tous les téléphones (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL) et
 Overpass montre qu'il en reste encore exactement 320!

 Op 28 juli 2015 05:28 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
  Laat je nog even weten hoeveel je er nog hebt verwijderd ?
 
  m
 
  2015-07-27 22:15 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:
 
  Ik heb net een mail gekregen van een nieuwe mapper die ik een
  welkomstbericht had gestuurd. Hij vraagt of er een manier is om alle
  telefoonhokjes in één keer te verwijderen.
 
  Natuurlijk kan ik hem daarmee helpen, maar ik wou even vragen of
  iemand er bezwaar tegen heeft als ik met Overpass alle
  amenity=telephones met operator~[Bb]elgacom|[Pp]roximus in JOSM laadt
  en ze verwijder?
 
  Op 1 juni 2015 16:26 schreef Guy Vanvuchelen
  guy.vanvuche...@gmail.com:
   Zojuist op het (radio) nieuws gehoord dat de laatste afgebroken is!
  
  
  
   Guy Vanvuchelen
  
  
  
   Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com]
   Verzonden: maandag 1 juni 2015 16:08
   Aan: Jo Hannes; OpenStreetMap Belgium
   Onderwerp: Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public
   telephones
  
  
  
   Volgens het artikel in humo, werden die in/aan het centraal station
   van
   Antwerpen (of was het een ander station) afgebroken.
  
   Er waren er wel een paar die niet verwijderd konden worden (toen het
   artikel
   werd geschreven), omdat er nog stroom op de kabel zat, of de cabine
   zo
   verankerd was in de omgeving dat het niet mogelijk was. Misschien
   dat
   die
   ondertussen al wel verwijderd zijn, maar misschien ook niet.
  
  
  
   m.
  
  
  
  
  
   2015-06-01 16:01 GMT+02:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:
  
   In stations en 'toeristische' plaatsen zou 'k verwachten dat er toch
   nog
   een
   aantal over blijven.
  
   Jo
  
  
  
   Op 1 juni 2015 15:56 schreef Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com:
  
  
  
   Mogen verwijderd worden zonder survey ?
  
   Marc Gemis schreef op 27/05/2015 om 6:55:
  
   Hallo,
  
   Jullie hebben het misschien al gehoord, maar tegen 1 juni zouden alle
   publieke telefooncellen van Belgacom moeten verdwenen zijn uit het
   straatbeeld. Volgens een artikel in een weekblad zal het misschien
   wel
   langer duren. Maar misschien is het wel het moment om eens op OSM te
   kijken of er nog in je buurt staan ?
  
  
  
   You might have heard it before, but Belgacom hopes to remove all
   phone
   booths by June 1. According to an article in a magazine, it might
   take a
   bit longer, but it might still be a good moment to start cleaning up
   OSM
   and remove phone booths that are no longer there.
  
   happy mapping
  
   m
  
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] publieke telefooncellen / public telephones

[Ruben Maes]

Yes, both of those actions would be great!

You can add your comment in a 'note' tag.

2015-07-28 12:26 GMT+02:00 wannes wanne...@gmail.com:
 Op 28 jul. 2015 12:13 PM schreef Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:


 En nu het rare: er waren 320 telefooncellen met operator die ik heb
 verwijderd. Nu ik eens kijk naar alle telefonen
 (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL), blijkt dat er nu nog exact 320
 overblijven!

 It has been a while for me and OSM.
 If I do a survey for one of these 320 and I see no phoneboot, I remove the
 node?
 (Some are right around the corner)

 If I see one of these 320 that is still there. Would it be useful to add a
 comment to the node? Yes, verified 2015-07-28, still in place, do not
 remove


 Et maintenant l'étrange : j'ai enlevé 320 téléphones. Maintenant je
 regarde tous les téléphones (http://overpass-turbo.eu/s/aCL) et
 Overpass montre qu'il en reste encore exactement 320!




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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [Announce] Important Maintenance shortly

[Ruben Maes]

For those not on talk or announce:

From 14:00-15:00 CEST OSM will be read-only.


-- Forwarded message --
From: Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com
Date: 2015-07-27 13:21 GMT+02:00
Subject: [Announce] Important Maintenance shortly
To: OSM Dev List d...@openstreetmap.org, Talk Openstreetmap
t...@openstreetmap.org, annou...@openstreetmap.org


Hi All,

OpenStreetMap website + API will be read-only midday to 1pm (UTC/GMT)
later today for important hardware maintenance. Apologies for the
short notice.

Mappers will not be able to save map updates during this maintenance window.

For status updates during the maintenance window please visit
http://irc.openstreetmap.org in the #osm-dev channel.

Kind regards,
Grant
Part of the OpenStreetMap operations team.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] Important Maintenance shortly

[Ruben Maes]

Sorry, of course that should have been read-only instead of down.
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSM+website+and+API+read-onlyiso=20150727T12p1=1440ah=1

2015-07-27 13:28 GMT+02:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:
 To view this in your own time zone, you can visit:
 https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSM+website+and+API+downiso=20150727T12p1=1440ah=1

 2015-07-27 13:21 GMT+02:00 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com:
 Hi All,

 OpenStreetMap website + API will be read-only midday to 1pm (UTC/GMT)
 later today for important hardware maintenance. Apologies for the
 short notice.

 Mappers will not be able to save map updates during this maintenance window.

 For status updates during the maintenance window please visit
 http://irc.openstreetmap.org in the #osm-dev channel.

 Kind regards,
 Grant
 Part of the OpenStreetMap operations team.

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Re: [OSM-talk] [Announce] Important Maintenance shortly

[Ruben Maes]

To view this in your own time zone, you can visit:
https://www.timeanddate.com/worldclock/fixedtime.html?msg=OSM+website+and+API+downiso=20150727T12p1=1440ah=1

2015-07-27 13:21 GMT+02:00 Grant Slater openstreet...@firefishy.com:
 Hi All,

 OpenStreetMap website + API will be read-only midday to 1pm (UTC/GMT)
 later today for important hardware maintenance. Apologies for the
 short notice.

 Mappers will not be able to save map updates during this maintenance window.

 For status updates during the maintenance window please visit
 http://irc.openstreetmap.org in the #osm-dev channel.

 Kind regards,
 Grant
 Part of the OpenStreetMap operations team.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] POIs

[Ruben Maes]

Op vrijdag 24 juli 2015 heeft André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com het
volgende geschreven:

 FYI, I once wrote an improvement to a Wikipedia page.  A self-appointed
vigilante came down on me and accused be of self-research (what I wrote was
as verifiable as 1+2=3). I was requested to add a link to a page saying
1+2=3.  I replied that what I said could be proved, and that, of the
existing 3 links in the page, 3 were incorrect.

That's because Wikipedia does not aim to tell the truth, they want to
summarize what can be found in other sources[1]. That's why you have to add
sources for everything except for the most trivially verifiable[2]. Even if
you know/think you're right. ;)

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:TRUTH
[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WP:VER

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[OSM-talk] Tag standardisation (was: Tagging concert / music hall)

[Ruben Maes]

2015-07-21 12:04 GMT+02:00 Peter vd Kamp pk...@acm.org:
 Thanks for the answers so far. It's a pity that there is no consensus, 
 because it makes searching more difficult: the user must be aware of the fact 
 that he has to search for different tags.

Yep, that's how OSM works. :p

 I'm fairly new to contribute to Openstreetmap, so I don't know of long term 
 habits for tagging. For the moment I will use amenity=music_hall or 
 amenity=concert_hall. Thanks to this discussion I'm curious about 
 standardization processes regarding metadata in Openstreetmap, but that's a 
 topic for a new thread.

There's the tagging mailing list[1] to which you can subscribe if
you're into discussing tags.

We also have a Feature Proposal Process on the wiki[2]. It's not
perfect and basically if a feature gets approved, that doesn't mean
anything other than that it has been approved. It doesn't guarantee it
will be supported by any data consumer.
It has its merits though: your tagging scheme gets seen by other
mappers and they can comment on special cases or things you may have
overlooked. Things that may not have been noticed before it is too
late if you simply invented a tagging scheme, started using it and
created a wiki page for it.

[1] https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
[2] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposal_process


 On 20 jul. 2015, at 21:28, Malcolm Herring malcolm.herr...@btinternet.com 
 wrote:

 Some concert halls:

 Albert Hall, London: attraction=music_venue
 Concertgebouw, Amsterdam: amenity=theatre
 Gewandhaus, Leipzig: theatre:genre=philharmonic
 Musikverein, Vienna: amenity=concert_hall
 Philharmonie, Berlin: amenity=theatre
 Symphony Hall, Birmingham: building=concert_hall

 Clearly a consensus - NOT!


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Re: [OSM-talk] Issue-Tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org

[Ruben Maes]

2015-07-16 15:53 GMT+02:00 Karl-Philipp Richter rich...@richtercloud.de:
 Thanks, I opened issue
 http://api.elasticemail.com/tracking/click?msgid=ma9n39-4q1aukwsxfbs50target=https%3a%2f%2fgithub.com%2fopenstreetmap%2fopenstreetmap-website%2fissues%2f1008
  to
 add a reference to 
 http://api.elasticemail.com/tracking/click?msgid=ma9n39-4q1aukwsxfbs50target=http%3a%2f%2fwww.openstreetmap.org%2fhelp

Karl-Philipp,
You may have malware on your computer, your links appear to have
changed into URLs that track clicks.


He opened issue
https://github.com/openstreetmap/openstreetmap-website/issues/1008
requesting to add a link to the bug tracker on
http://www.openstreetmap.org/help. The issue has already been closed
(wontfix).

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Re: [OSM-talk] blacklist elasticmail.com? [was Re: Issue-Tracker for http[s]://www.openstreetmap.org]

[Ruben Maes]

Op donderdag 16 juli 2015 heeft Richard ricoz@gmail.com het volgende
geschreven:
 On Thu, Jul 16, 2015 at 05:26:03PM +0200, Ruben Maes wrote:
 2015-07-16 15:53 GMT+02:00 Karl-Philipp Richter rich...@richtercloud.de
:
  Thanks, I opened issue
 
http://api.elasticemail.com/tracking/click?msgid=ma9n39-4q1aukwsxfbs50target=https%3a%2f%2fgithub.com%2fopenstreetmap%2fopenstreetmap-website%2fissues%2f1008
to
  add a reference to
http://api.elasticemail.com/tracking/click?msgid=ma9n39-4q1aukwsxfbs50target=http%3a%2f%2fwww.openstreetmap.org%2fhelp

 Karl-Philipp,
 You may have malware on your computer, your links appear to have
 changed into URLs that track clicks.

 apparently he sent his email through elasticmail.com and the service
 treats link like that.

 I believe email services behaving like this are a potential security
 hazard to everyone and should be blacklisted on this list.

+1, should be blacklisted. Or at a minimum, the tracking links should be
reconverted. Maybe easier to just ban it.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] is this ok?

[Ruben Maes]

Definitely not OK, relations aren't collections. (I know it's in the wiki
somewhere but not where exactly)

Op woensdag 1 juli 2015 heeft joost schouppe joost.schou...@gmail.com het
volgende geschreven:
 This new user added a lot of viewpoints and made a relation of them:
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/relation/5331824

 I think the idea is to collect some nice spots to rest in the shade.

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Re: [OSM-talk] Mappers and apps should focus on relations at the very start

[Ruben Maes]

2015-06-28 20:34 GMT+02:00 Fernando Trebien fernando.treb...@gmail.com:
 On Sun, Jun 28, 2015 at 4:03 AM, Richard Fairhurst rich...@systemed.net 
 wrote:
 When people are deleting and combining ways, they are editing
 invisible data - tags and parent relations. In a world without
 relations, combining different tags would still be an issue. For
 instance, the sidewalk tag is not visible. It should be visible. If
 it ever becomes visible, there is still a huge repository of approved
 tags that won't be. The current approach - concatenation - is
 essentially invisible in many situations (the user must pay a lot of
 attention at the result). I would like to see a scenario where a
 casual mapper (the target audience of all editors besides JOSM) would
 prefer not to be notified about a potential mistake. I do mapping
 sprints very often, I'm knowledgeable, and even so I prefer to get
 interrupted in my mapping whenever I do something potentially
 damaging. Without that, even with my experience, I would have broken
 data multiple times. How is that casual mappers would prefer not to
 have that? It is a contradiction to design the application for casual
 mappers and still place fastest mapping at utmost priority. A casual
 mapper is not aware of the data model, and should not be expected to
 be so.

Trying to be a bit objective here:
I have been teaching someone to edit OSM with iD and he was
demotivated by the warnings he got when clicking Save. He then had to
try to find out where the errors were, failed to do so and gave up. I
told him to just upload it and I fixed it myself.

So I believe that thinking you are ready and then having to deal later
with mistakes you made earlier is highly demotivating.


Eventually I convinced him to take the leap to JOSM. I had to explain
how the data is represented and it took him more time to learn (note
that JOSM made him eager to learn more about the actual data
structures!), but now he is more confident in editing ways.

I have not explained relations yet though and he broke some last week,
by merging ways (one was in a route relation and the other not). I
tried this and JOSM does not give any warning at all when you do that
in expert mode, but it does in non-expert mode. Apparently it was not
clear enough that data would break.


My conclusion is that editors should not try to hide too much, but be
didactic. Ideally they should confront mappers with what exactly the
consequences are of a certain action (and I realize this is very hard
to do, with the freedom of tags and such). In this case, a map with
the effect on the relation could have been shown.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] How to tag highway only emergency

[Ruben Maes]

It is currently tagged vehicle=no + emergency=yes.
I would go even further and say access=no + emergency=yes.

2015-06-23 10:52 GMT+02:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 According to taginfo [1], it is used over 45.000 times

 so it is good.
 An alternative would be to use access=emergency, but that is used only 1620
 times.
 The problem with emergency=yes is that there are a bunch of other tags that
 have nothing to do with access rights that are also tagged with
 emergency=xxx, e.g. fire hydrants
 The access=emergency is therefore a better solution IMHO


 [1] http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/keys/emergency#values

 On Tue, Jun 23, 2015 at 10:38 AM, Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com wrote:

 At Ieper new crossing under construction
 http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/50.87122/2.89731
 From the south Briekestraat only emergency will be allowed to go on N38
 Straight on tunnel only for bicycle en foot.

 How to tag highway only emergency


 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/emergency_vehicle_access
 this page still good ??


 For the moment I used highway=service and emergency=yes


 selec 1
 Algemeen toegang ???

 selec 4
 Alle voertuigen no ???

 selec 12
 Noodhulp yes




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[OSM-talk-be] OSM contributions by Gemeente Destelbergen, Westtoer ...

[Ruben Maes]

Hello everyone

While looking at the new contributors around Ghent (with an RSS feed
from [1]), I saw that the municipality of Destelbergen appears to have
opened an account[2]. They already have quite a lot of changesets but
those all modify just one way. I've sent them a PM to encourage them
to use changeset comments and to inform them about the possibility of
using OSM on the map on their website (now they're using Google Maps)
[3]. I've said that if they would like help in doing so, they can join
the mailing list or contact me.
I think it's cool that OSM is getting discovered by more and more governments.

That said, how is the Westtoer case going? The last message about them
on this list is from more than 3 months ago.

[1] http://resultmaps.neis-one.org/newestosm.php
[2] https://www.openstreetmap.org/user/Gemeente%20Destelbergen
[3] http://www.destelbergen.be/stratenplan

Groeten
Ruben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] State of the map in Brussels in 2016!

[Ruben Maes]

Wh! *hyper-kinematic spasms*

Congratulations to the team behind it!

2015-06-20 20:08 GMT+02:00 Ben Abelshausen ben.abelshau...@gmail.com:
 Hi all,

 I'm very happy to announce that State of the map is coming to Belgium next
 year:

 https://2016.stateofthemap.org

 Let us know if you want to be involved, have ideas, ... We have the ambition
 to make this the best SOTM ever in Europe!

 Spread the word among all friends, mappers, clients, whatever...!!

 Cheers,

 Ben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] een mapping party in Gent

[Ruben Maes]

 * verdeel een flyer met basisinfo: wat is OSM, wie zijn deze zotten en waarom 
 willen ze mij gratis helpen
 * verdeel een sticker om ergens in de gemapte winkel te zetten: iets als 
 Tthis time you had to look for this place. Next time, just use OpenStreetMap

Dat klinkt goed, maar hoe zal dat gefinancieerd worden? Op een website
zie ik voor 500 dubbelzijdige A7-flyers €28. 250 raamstickers (cirkels
diameter 10cm) €84.
Ofwel moeten we sponsors zoeken en er nog reclame bijzetten ...

 Ruben, we zitten dicht tegen de Gentse feesten aan, misschien dat er dan al 
 wel terug wat studenten in de stad zijn? Maar als het nu tegenvalt qua 
 studenten, dan kunnen we het gewoon nog eens opnieuw doen eind september, 
 begin oktober, niet?

Misschien is het ook wel beter om twee aparte events te hebben, de ene
gericht op studenten en de ander niet.
* Eén voor de winkels en zo, zoals je zegt. Op 10 juni wordt het
programma van de Gentse Feesten geopenbaard, als we het in die periode
willen doen, kunnen we vanaf woensdag dus weten wanneer de
activiteiten plaatsvinden.
* De ander, voor studenten, zou dan aan het begin van het academisch
jaar kunnen zijn wanneer iedereen nog geen zin heeft om te studeren,
en dan meer focussen op dingen die studenten leuk vinden: de Overpoort
(uitgangsbuurt in Gent), gezellige cafeetjes, bibliotheken,
boekenwinkels, de campussen van de unief enz...

 Ruben, wanneer doen jullie de dataverzameling in winkelstraten? Op een 
 zaterdag lijkt mij ook al niet echt ideaal, gezien de grote drukte.

Dat was op vrijdagnamiddagen, omdat we dan tijd hadden.

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] een mapping party in Gent

[Ruben Maes]

Ik ben ook geïnteresseerd, ik kom vaak in Gent. Nu heb ik het wel nog druk.

Merk ook op dat studenten nu in de examenperiode zitten en dat ze in
juli, augustus en de eerste helft van september zomervakantie hebben.
Er zijn dan steeds veel minder studenten in Gent.

Ik kan vragen aan de Universiteit Gent of we posters zouden mogen
hangen op de prikborden; dat wordt nog gedaan voor allerlei dingen.
Misschien mogen we zelfs een locatie gebruiken van hen. Het zou dan
wel best met inschrijvingen zijn zodat we weten hoeveel volk er komt.

Groeten
Ruben


Op 4 juni 2015 11:41 schreef Pieter Colpaert pieter.colpa...@okfn.org:
 Gezien Pieter-Jan van Open Knowledbe Belgium vanuit Gent werkt en ik ook in
 Gent woon, ben ik ook bereid te steunen met communicatie en evt. een locatie
 te zoeken.

 Als in juli, dan kunnen we dit samen laten vallen met een avond op open
 Summer of code: http://summerofcode.be. Dan heb je direct een extra publiek
 van 20 studenten, en de faciliteiten + drinks gefinancierd door oSoc :)

 Mvg,

 Pieter


 On 04-06-15 11:23, nico...@pettiaux.be wrote:

 Ik ben geinteresseerd voor zoo'n party tussen 1 augustus en 23 augustus of
 na 1 septembre.
 mvg
 Nicolas

 À jeu. juin 4 09:16:40 2015 GMT+0200, joost schouppe a écrit :

 Hoi allen,

 Ik had al eens wat ideetjes gelanceerd in beperkte groep voor een mapping
 party in Gent. Heeft er iemand zin om daar mee in te vliegen? En zijn er
 mensen die een introductie JOSM willen komen geven of anderszins willen
 helpen? Ik zou het ergens  in juli of augustus willen doen. Focus op
 POI's.

 * Motivatie:
 Waar we het verschil met Google Maps kunnen maken is bij de ondernemer,
 de
 hipster en de lokale overheid. Google is te traag voor de ondernemer met
 een nieuw project, zet de dingen pas online als ze niet meer hip zijn en
 heeft minder aandacht voor de gebieden die een lokale overheid net onder
 de
 aandacht wil brengen. In Gent ben ik zeker dat we wat steun zouden
 krijgen
 van overheidswege als we Bart Rosseau wat uitleg geven over het plan. En
 die zal wel contacten hebben bij mensen die alternatieve winkelstraten in
 de verf willen zetten. Die zouden kunnen helpen met promotie (het boekske
 van Gent?) en misschien wel een locatie voor pre- en post op straat gaan.

 Waarom het idee van een Map-my-Shop Party mij zo aanspreekt, is omdat het
 werkt op deze drie zwakten:
 - Openstreetmap is nog niet bekend genoeg.
 - Openstreetmap heeft te weinig POIs
 - Er doen véél te weinig vrouwen aan Openstreetmap

 Ik zou de promotie wat ludiek en ironisch sexistisch houden. Iets in de
 stijl van Mapping nerd zoekt vrouw om mee te gaan shoppen. Mannen
 enkel
 toegestaan mits ze een vrouw meenemen.


 * Als we dan toch bezig zijn:
 Wat betreft fietspaden of toegankelijkheid. De toegankelijkheid van
 stoepen
 en winkels lijkt mij absoluut iets dat dit een socialer kantje kan geven.
 En speciale aandacht voor de fietsinfrastructuur (een kaart die toont
 waar
 fietsers niet tegen de richting mogen, of waar de lastige kasseien liggen
 en de fietsenstallingen zijn) lijkt mij absoluut ook perfect te
 combineren
 met het thema.

 * Organisatorisch:
 Vóór het echte mappen: geen presentaties. Gewoon aan de mensen vragen
 smartphones mee te nemen, een aantal tools installeren, wat uitleg over
 papierwerk, en dan op de baan. Best in groepjes van twee of drie personen
 om zoveel mogelijk terrein te beslaan.

 Onderweg:
 * verdeel een flyer met basisinfo: wat is OSM, wie zijn deze zotten en
 waarom willen ze mij gratis helpen
 * verdeel een sticker om ergens in de gemapte winkel te zetten: iets als
 Tthis time you had to look for this place. Next time, just use
 OpenStreetMap
 * neem fiches mee om basisgegevens in te invullen
 * fieldnotes om het overzicht te houden
 * eventueel rechtstreeks toevoegen gegevens via Osmand? Mogelijk nog niet
 direct als POI maar als note.
 * onderweg mapillary streetview foto's maken (ware ideaal als we zo'n
 360°
 camera te pakken zouden krijgen)

 Achteraf:
 * invoeren van de gegevens via verschillende editors
 * ervaren JOSM mappers nodig voor dingen als compexe openingsuren
 * Laat het resultaat zien, stel in het licht dat OSM niet gewoon een
 kaartje is, maar een doos Lego:
 - hoe ziet het eruit op sites als http://www.openlinkmap.org/ ,
 http://openlovemap.de/ , http://thenextis.com/ (wifi, ATM) etc.
 - toelichting over indoor mapping, over tagging, POI kaarten op maat via
 umaps, over lokale data met wereldwijde community (en dus tools en
 zichtbaarheid)

 Groeten,
 Joost



 --
 +32 486 74 71 22

 Open Knowledge Belgium
 http://okfn.be

 Open Transport community
 http://transport.okfn.org



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] For OSM copyright enforcers: strangest map yet

[Ruben Maes]

Hi

It reminds me somehow of this service: http://afstandmeten.nl/
They have a similar multi-background map, but they got the attribution right.

Do we have a template for copyright letters? If we haven't, perhaps
now's the time to make them.
So far, I've written two copyright emails[1] (in Dutch).

Groeten
Ruben

[1] https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:M!dgard/Copyrightbrieven


2015-05-28 21:25 GMT+02:00 André Pirard a.pirard.pa...@gmail.com:
 Hi,

 I stumbled on this map.
 They've got the Google Pegman, markers, zoom bar and logo.
 They've got a Google Terms of Use.
 But, gulp, the map is OSM (what I've just mapped, looked like an echo ;-) )

 In fact, the map is multi-background.
 There seems to be a cookie to remember your preference.
 And the default preference was OSM as I got it from Google Search.

 But yet...
 Cheers

 André.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Relation knooppunten

[Ruben Maes]

Hi Jakka

I think it's because the last street (Stationsstraat) has oneway=yes. Add
oneway:bicycle=no if bikes are allowed to go in the opposite direction as
well.

Groeten
Ruben
On 24 May 2015 11:27, Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com wrote:

 Hi,

 http://osma.vmarc.be/nl/route/1126024

 Who can help explain what error here is?
 I do not see it.
 I think it is something with the second highway.

 Tiende Linie Regimentsstraat rol ?? it is no oneway on the map?

 Jakka


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Relation knooppunten Who can explain what we see and what can be done?

[Ruben Maes]

English below

En de gaten tussen de pijltjes in Routeonderdelen komen gewoon doordat de
afbeeldingen niet hoog genoeg zijn. Je kan zien dat Oude Beselarestraat
te lang is om op één lijntje te passen, dus gebruikt hij er twee. De
afbeelding is slechts 40 pixels hoog en vult zo niet het volledige
tabelveld.

And the gaps between the arrows in Routeonderdelen/Route members is
just because of the image not being high enough. You can see Oude
Beselarestraat is too long to fit on one line, so it wraps. The image of
the arrow is only 40 pixels in height so it does not fill the entire table
cell.

2015-05-15 16:07 GMT+02:00 Jakka vdmfrank...@gmail.com:
 Who kan explain what we see and what can be done?

 Realdata
 http://osma.vmarc.be/route/1617069

 Structure:
 forward=(43 - 54 via + 43 - 109643277 - 101716647 - 28679541 +
 101716652 + 101716655 + 195807258 + 233963107 + 233963106 -
 28679457 - 117046950 - 28679431 - 28462213 + 28503279 +
30643717
 - 28896034 + 28462396 + 322946540 + 28679315 + 78794140 +
 138131478 + 28512850 + 78794128 + 78794124 + 101507059 +
 30013082 +  - 54 41662567)

 backward=(54 - None [broken] via -  - 54 41662567 - 30013082 -
 101507059 - 78794124 + 28960258 + 78794134 - 138131478 -
 78794140 - 28679315 - 322946540 - 28462396 + 28896034)

 Feiten:
 NoBackwardPath Er is geen verbinding van het eindknooppunt naar het
 startknooppunt (terug weg).


 screenshot will delete this next week


https://www.dropbox.com/s/dpiqhrjcklt6f1b/osma_vmarc.be_route_1617069.png?dl=0
 https://www.dropbox.com/s/y9qxn0ocv8o994n/Relaition_josm_43_54.png?dl=0



 Met vriendelijke groeten,

 Jakka




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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Multi-layer problems

[Ruben Maes]

 There are three levels of public road and the result on the map looks
 extremely ugly and unreadable:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.03685/3.70898

Ah, I didn't think it possible, but now that bicycle parkings are
rendered (as of today, Marc's just posted it in this list) it has
become even worse. :)

 I would never cut in the data. I would just file a bug report with the 
 renderer. OTOH I haven't looked at the raw data, and maybe with some slight 
 retagging (without tagging for the renderer), it can be solved. Perhaps a  
 tunnel=building_passage on the highway=pedestrian

Yeah, I would never tag for the renderer. I'm a semantic purist :p
The problem is ... there is no building passage as I see it.
This way is 5 meters below street level:
https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/194651168
There are ramps for pedestrians and bikers on both sides. The way
gives access to the public bicycle parkings under the Virginie
Lovelinggebouw.

Soit, it is mapped correctly AFAIK and I've opened an issue:
https://github.com/gravitystorm/openstreetmap-carto/issues/1544

Groeten
Ruben

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[OSM-talk-be] Map without attribution in Schamper

[Ruben Maes]

Hello list

The student magazine Schamper published two maps without attribution
in their latest publication.
(http://www.schamper.ugent.be/files/pdf/555.pdf, maps on page 39, and
on the latest page)
I have composed this letter (in Dutch):
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:M!dgard/Brief_Schamper

If there is no negative feedback, I'm planning to send it by email
this Friday, May 15th.

Groeten
Ruben

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[OSM-talk-be] Multi-layer problems

[Ruben Maes]

Hello everyone

I surveyed near the new Virginie Loveling building near the train
station in Ghent and mapped everything accordingly a few months ago.

There are three levels of public road and the result on the map looks
extremely ugly and unreadable:
   https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=19/51.03685/3.70898
3D maps can't handle it either (e.g. F4:
http://demo.f4map.com/#lat=51.0367277lon=3.7088474zoom=19camera.theta=71.119camera.phi=94.252)

The fact that highway=pedestrian is now *always* rendered on top of
buildings (no matter what the layer=* values are) makes things worse.

If you haven't been there, I guess you have no idea how this place
looks in real life from looking at the map. I can't think of any
application that would be able to do something useful with it.
Routing works a bit but if you cannot read the map or get useful
spoken instructions that's not really helpful.

This has left me wondering ... Should we either cut in the provided
data or wait for renderers and applications to be able to handle these
kind of situations? A possible improvement could be something like
Google Maps does: it shows a layer chooser when you come near a
multi-layer place, both indoor and outdoor IIRC. This seems
complicated to implement in the current setup and I don't expect any
OSM map at all to be handling these situations gracefully soon.

There are also problems near the Bruges train station, though it looks
a bit less ugly at first sight.
https://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=18/51.19707/3.21997

Any ideas?

Groeten
Ruben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] route = foot

[Ruben Maes]

Sorry to bring up this old thread, I was bored so I skimmed a bit
through old unopened mails from the mailing list and I thought I
should mention this:

There's also this proposal for 'virtual highways':
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/virtual_highway
The original proposal uses highway=virtual, I suggested using
highway:virtual=pedestrian/... instead so you don't have to add all
access restrictions by hand.
I am not sure whether it is a good idea or not, but the proposal is
there on the wiki.

Groeten
Ruben

On 20 Jan 2015 23:29, Gilbert Hersschens gherssch...@gmail.com wrote:

 Bedankt. Weer iets bijgeleerd.

 2015-01-20 22:14 GMT+01:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:

 route=foot lijkt mij ook een redelijk elegante oplossing om zowel een 
 continue reeks ways te hebben in de relatie, zonder de rendering te 
 beïnvloeden.

 Op 20 januari 2015 22:12 schreef Ben Laenen benlae...@gmail.com:


 Dit zijn stukjes over pleinen waar enkele routes over gaan, je kan moeilijk
 het hele plein toevoegen omdat je dan de exacte route verliest, en aangezien
 er niets verschillend in realiteit is kan je er ook niet echt een
 highway=footway of pedestrian aan geven. Vandaar dus route=foot/bicycle, en
 die kun je nog wel op enkele andere plekken vinden in het land. Of dat dit 
 nu
 correct is of niet, het is toch duidelijk wat de bedoeling is, dus niets 
 mis
 mee wat mij betreft.

 Ben


 On Tuesday 20 January 2015 21:13:47 Gilbert Hersschens wrote:
  Er loopt een wandel route dwars over de markt van Geel. Die markt is een
  voetgangerszone getagd als highway = pedestrian + area = yes. Omdat die
  highway dus geen way maar een area is heeft de mapper er gewoon een lijn
  door getrokken om de 2 stukken weg dwars over de markt te verbinden (om de
  route niet te breken) en dat stukje weg getagd met route = foot.
  Nu is route normalerwijze een relatie type en geen highway tag. Ik vraag
  me dus af of dit de correcte tag is voor een virtuele weg over een 
  plein.
  Het is in elk geval een creatieve oplossing, maar misschien is er een
  andere, meer correcte manier ?
  zie: https://www.openstreetmap.org/way/148011489
 
  Gilbert


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[OSM-talk-be] De Haan virtual village

[Ruben Maes]

Hi all

Seaside village De Haan/Le Coq is launching a virtual tour in their
city (in Dutch):
http://dehaan.liquifi.be/websites/2/templates/105/news_events_template.aspx?news=339web=2

They are presenting it to the press and the public tomorrow at 19:00
in Sunparks De Haan
(http://www.openstreetmap.org/?mlat=51.28237mlon=3.06453#map=18/51.28237/3.06453).

I imagine it will be a bit like Street View. Perhaps we could ask them
for permission to use the imagery to map from?
Ideally they should also use OpenStreetMap if there is an overview map
of course, but I don't see that happening too soon if they have
already worked out the project.

Groeten
Ruben

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Westtoer / WVI

[Ruben Maes]

Yesterday Marc met with Westtoer (the touristic service in West-Flanders)
and WVI (the GIS coordinator of 54 of the 64 West-Flemish municipalities).

He didn't have the time to translate his notes, so I tried to translate
them into English from my understanding. If I misinterpreted, please
correct it!

I would like to thank Marc for his time and effort to do this. This
cooperation sounds really really interesting.

On 2 Apr 2015 07:26, Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com wrote:

 Westtoer wil echt aan de slag met OpenStreetMap
Westtoer really wants to start using OSM:

 - Steeds als basislaag. Hun servers en stijl
* They want it to be their default base layer, on their own servers and
with their own style.

 - Controle tools (op hun servers)
* They want to provide QA tools on their own servers.

 - Donatie van data, niet alles, bv. technische gegevens palen
wandelknooppunten niet
* They want to donate their data (not all of it though, e.g. not the
technical details of the signs for the walking networks).

 - proberen feedback lus te installeren (wijzigingen in OSM terugkoppelen)
* They want to create a feedback loop, so they can update their data based
on changes in OSM.

 - sommige dingen willen ze zelf in OSM onderhouden, andere niet
* Some things they want to maintain themselves in OSM, other things not.

 - zoeken feitelijk professionele consultant voor mee opstellen van
cursussen rond OSM. (Syntra is gevallen). Ook iemand vanuit de community om
daar mee aan te schrijven / te sturen. Denken aan 60 cursusdagen
 - cursus voor professionele GIS mensen van Westtoer en WVI.
 - cursus voor hun peters/meters van het wandelnetwerk om meer mensen op
OSM te krijgen
* As a matter of fact they are searching for a professional consultant to
help organise OSM courses. (Syntra was mentioned.) They would also like to
have someone from the community help writing/steering those. They are
thinking of 60 course days. The course would be aimed at professional GIS
people from Westtoer and WVI, and their 'godparents' of the walking
network. This would be to get more people on OSM.

 - WVI gaat GIS medewerkers naar die cursus proberen te krijgen
* WVI will try to get their GIS employees to follow that course.

 - gaan ook proberen sponsors te zoeken
* They will also try to find sponsors.

 - andere overheidsinstellingen zoeken (W-Vl eerst)
* Find other governmental institutions (initially in West-Flanders)
[To do what?]

 - WVI denkt aan europees programma rond GIS om geld los te krijgen
* WVI is thinking of a European GIS programme in hopes of getting subsidies
for us.

 - WVI via gemeenten zoeken naar doelgroepen die interesse hebben om mee
te mappen
* WVI wants to search for groups that would be interested in mapping. They
propose to work together with the municipalities for this.

 - Westtoer via hun peters/meters project (of andere methodes?) zoeken
naar nieuwe mappers
* Westtoer proposed to search for new mappers through their 'godparents'
project. Or possibly in other ways.

 - Willen langdurige samenwerking, willen echt OSM vooruit helpen
* They want a long-term cooperation. They really want to help OSM forwards.

Ruben
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Map without attribution

[Ruben Maes]

*Nederlands beneden*

== English ==

I sent the mail today and I already received an answer.

They confirm that they used OSM and will include the required
attribution in future publications, including new revisions of the
plasplan. The toilet locations in the plasplan are currently being
updated and a new version of it will be printed in the near future.
There are no more plasplans from 2014 in stock.

They are OK with us copying the toilets. If we mention the city of
Ostend as a source, they ask to also include the year of publication
of the version we used, because it is updated each year.
So that's good news. :)

Being able to give the map a custom style sounds interesting to them.
The person who answered my email (who was not the one to whom I sent
my email) will look into the possibilities of OSM shortly.
Perhaps someone could offer them a hand?


== Nederlands ==

Ik heb de mail vandaag verstuurd en ik heb al een antwoord gekregen.

Ze bevestigen dat ze OSM gebruiken en ze zullen de nodige verwijzing
maken in toekomstige publicaties, waaronder nieuwe uitgaven van het
plasplan. The toiletlocaties worden momenteel geüpdatet en een nieuwe
versie zal binnenkort worden gedrukt. Er zijn geen plasplannen van
2014 meer in voorraad.

We mogen van hen de toiletlocaties overnemen. Als we stad Oostende als
bron vermelden, zouden ze graag hebben dat we ook het jaartal
vermelden van de versie van het plasplan die we gebruiken, omdat het
elk jaar wordt bijgewerkt.
Dat is dus goed nieuws. :)

De kaart een eigen stijl kunnen geven lijkt hun interessant. De
persoon die mijn e-mail beantwoordde (die niet dezelfde was als degene
naar wie ik mijn mail had gestuurd) zal eerstdaags naar de
mogelijkheden van OSM kijken.
Misschien zou iemand kunnen voorstellen een handje te helpen?

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Map without attribution

[Ruben Maes]

2015-03-20 14:21 GMT+01:00 Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 Mention the source in the changeset comment, is that what you/they mean ?

 regards

 m

I think they don't really know how we provide source information. I
think it would be easiest to indeed use a source on the changeset, and
also put them on the wiki page (but it doesn't really make much sense
to include a year there, because we can use all of the revisions).

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM Remote control

[Ruben Maes]

And, should you be using the addon NoScript, you also have to make an
exception in its Application Boundaries Enforcer module (ABE):

Go to the NoScript options, then to the tab Advanced, subtab ABE,
SYSTEM ruleset.
If you haven't edited those already, they should look like this:

# Prevent Internet sites from requesting LAN resources.
Site LOCAL
Accept from LOCAL
Deny

Add these two lines after Accept from LOCAL:
Accept from https://openstreetmap.org/
Accept from https://www.openstreetmap.org/

In combination with the certificate trick, you should then be good to go.

Ruben

2015-02-28 16:57 GMT+01:00 Ruben Maes ru...@janmaes.com:
 Maybe you can circumvent the issue by doing this:

 Open JOSM and make sure you have Remote Control enabled. In Firefox,
 go to this address: https://127.0.0.1:8112/
 You should get a warning screen saying This Connection is Untrusted.
 Click I Understand the Risks and press the Add Exception...
 button.
 A window pops up. (You can press View and inspect the certificate if
 you like. Close the details window if you have done so.) Make sure
 Permanently store this exception is checked and click Confirm
 Security Exception.
 Now you should see a Bad Request error page because you haven't asked
 JOSM to do anything ;)

 This worked for me. The website still emits an alert that editing
 failed, but JOSM loads the data.

 Ruben


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] JOSM Remote control

[Ruben Maes]

Maybe you can circumvent the issue by doing this:

Open JOSM and make sure you have Remote Control enabled. In Firefox,
go to this address: https://127.0.0.1:8112/
You should get a warning screen saying This Connection is Untrusted.
Click I Understand the Risks and press the Add Exception...
button.
A window pops up. (You can press View and inspect the certificate if
you like. Close the details window if you have done so.) Make sure
Permanently store this exception is checked and click Confirm
Security Exception.
Now you should see a Bad Request error page because you haven't asked
JOSM to do anything ;)

This worked for me. The website still emits an alert that editing
failed, but JOSM loads the data.

Ruben


2015-02-27 9:20 GMT+01:00 Glenn Plas gl...@byte-consult.be:

 StartSSL is a free certificate provider, and most probably firefox
 doesn't have the intermediate certificate chain on board which means it
 cannot verify.

 That is probably the reason, although I do not see startSSL as the
 certificate writer,  I see rapidSSL instead.  startSSL is not really a
 great one to use actually for a site like this.

 Apple products have the same problem with the latest GoDaddy certificates.

 https://www.sslshopper.com/cheapest-ssl-certificates.html

 You might want to try this in firefox:https://127.0.0.1:8112/

 https://www.sslshopper.com/ssl-checker.html#hostname=https://www.openstreetmap.org

 And see if it gives you a chain error or not.  It will work in chrome,
 but it depends on the browser.

 If you don't get the all-green in firefox, you just need to assemble a
 chain file with the missing intermediate certificates so the browser can
 validate.

 Note, this heavily depends on firefox (/browser) version, I see in my FF
 that it loads the intermediates fine:

 Common name: RapidSSL CA
 Organization: GeoTrust, Inc.
 Location: US
 Valid from February 19, 2010 to February 18, 2020
 Serial Number: 145105 (0x236d1)
 Signature Algorithm: sha1WithRSAEncryption
 Issuer: GeoTrust Global CA

 Common name: GeoTrust Global CA
 Organization: GeoTrust Inc.
 Location: US
 Valid from May 20, 2002 to August 20, 2018
 Serial Number: 1227750 (0x12bbe6)
 Signature Algorithm: sha1WithRSAEncryption
 Issuer: Equifax

 Glenn


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Gebruik van image tag met veel ongeldige verwijzingen.

[Ruben Maes]

Dag Marc,

Het lijkt mij geen zo'n goed idee om al die tags te gaan veranderen.
Het is grotendeels onnodige dubbele informatie; alle verwerkers van de
image-tag zouden 'File:' heel eenvoudig kunnen herkennen. Merk ook op
dat 'File:' niet verwijst naar een pagina op Wikipedia, maar een
pagina op Wikimedia Commons.

Als je ze toch zou willen veranderen, kijk dan zeker eens naar
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Automated_Edits_code_of_conduct,
daar staan regels voor dit soort automatische veranderingen.

Succes
Ruben

Met vriendelijke groeten

Ruben Maes
 ru...@janmaes.com

Mail is niet veilig, het is heel gemakkelijk om een afzender te vervalsen.
Als er op de achterkant van een brief een afzender staat vermeld, komt die
brief toch ook niet noodzakelijk van die persoon?!

---
Disclaimer
Deze mail is enkel bedoeld voor de geadresseerden. Aan deze mail
kunnen geen rechten worden ontleend.


Op 6 februari 2015 05:26 schreef Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com:
 Marc,

 je zou ook eens naar
 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Historical_Objects/Popup#Quelle:_image.3D.2A
 moeten kijken. Zij tonen enkel foto's als die een correcte, open licentie
 hebben. Dan kan het eenvoudigste gecontroleerd worden door enkel foto's van
 common's wikimedia te tonen. Vandaar waarschijnlijk dat File:image.jpg een
 speciale status heeft. Dit is trouwens ook de URL die binnen wikipedia
 gebruikt wordt om naar beelden te verwijzen. Ook weer voor die licentie
 volgens mij.
 Ik weet niet of ze hun volledige check voor de beelden in Javascript hebben
 geschreven.

 nog veel succes met je taglocator

 m.

 p.s. Als je de beelden wil gaan omtaggen, raad ik je aan om via Level0 
 Overpass  een editor te gaan.
 Dan is het een fluitje van een cent om die string ervoor te plakken op grote
 schaal

 2015-02-05 21:35 GMT+01:00 Marc Zoutendijk marczoutend...@mac.com:

 Op 5 feb. 2015, om 21:27 heeft Marc Gemis marc.ge...@gmail.com het
 volgende geschreven:

 Dan zal je eens naar de code van de geschichtskarten moeten kijken, die
 hebben geen probleem met die link


 http://geschichtskarten.openstreetmap.de/historische_objekte/?zoom=18lat=51.21899lon=4.40193layers=BFFFTFFFTFFFTselect=n2409413865

 maar feel free om al die links te vervolledigen als je dat wil. :-)


 Dat zal ik zeker proberen!

 Marc.



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Map without attribution

[Ruben Maes]

Could you please help me out with properly referring to
umap/maperitive? Actually I'm interested in even making a map style of
my own but I have not looked into it deep enough.

I've tried something out:
http://piratepad.net/H7J6nGybr7
You should all be able to edit this.

Thanks
Ruben/M!dgard

PS: I'm not from Ostend and the only thing I can remember doing there
was while adding all the beaches in Belgium, back in my very early
days. ;)


2015-02-02 12:59 GMT+01:00 Sander Deryckere sander...@gmail.com:


 2015-02-02 12:55 GMT+01:00 Jo winfi...@gmail.com:


 Asking to free the toilets dataset wouldn't hurt either (they don't even
 have to do anything technically, we can just copy it from the OSM-based
 printed map and the listed addresses).


 Is that after they'd give their consent to do so? Or is the fact they used
 OSM as the background enough to have freed that dataset? That would be very
 surprising.

 That's after their agreement. Displaying different datasets on top of each
 other (without mixing them) doesn't trigger the share-alike clause.


 Anyway, I agree that it would be far better if we could include those
 bathrooms in our data. At that point they could render a map based solely on
 OSM with an empasis on what they deem important to show on such a map. I
 think it's important to tell it to them that way. Maybe point them to umap
 or maperitive as well.

 Jo

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Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?

[Ruben Maes]

It's doing it again – the UK is going blue once more!

Does anyone know what the problem is? Last time, was it a broken
coastline in the end?


2014-06-19 10:48 GMT+02:00 Nick Whitelegg nick.whitel...@solent.ac.uk:

 Must be becoming a political map (Europe rather than US colour scheme).

 ;-)

 -Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de wrote: -
 To: talk@openstreetmap.org
 From: Michael Kugelmann michaelk_...@gmx.de
 Date: 18/06/2014 12:15AM
 Subject: Re: [OSM-talk] UK is turning blue?


 Am 18.06.2014 00:41, schrieb Colin Smale:

 why the UK is turning blue on openstreetmap.org?

 Flood due to massive rain? Heavy tide?;-)

 Maybe the coastline is broken (or was changed) or something like that...


 Cheers,
 Michael.


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Re: [OSM-talk] Worldwide non-surveyed tag edits

[Ruben Maes]

On Wednesday, June 11, 2014, Roland Olbricht roland.olbri...@gmx.de wrote:

 On the other hand, a mechanical change of data can be performed as easy 
 during postprocessing than in the database. This is known in programming in 
 don't store an information when it is easier to recompute it.

 You may earn real fame if you have a good filtering ruleset that flatirons 
 all suspect data. If you publish this as a postprocessing script, it is 
 useful. If you apply that to flatiron the database, in 99% justified cases 
 and 1% on otherwise on purpose crafted data, then you will earn shame 
 instead, because that same script could be perceived as doing vandalism.

 It's potentially feasible to postprocess data. It's hard to collect data. So 
 please don't make collecting data harder. Please make rather postprocessing 
 data easier.


Couldn't this be even worse than applying those changes directly in
the database?
By using post-processing, the 'corrected' data can not be edited: the
original data stays in the database. Errors are introduced between the
fetching of the data and its display. And even if you try to have as
little exceptions as possible, automated correction algorithms will
never be able to work 100% right.

In my understanding, these exceptions then have to be either
– explicitly mapped (by means of, like, name:correct=yes tags, which
sound like a horrible idea) or
– added to a separate database specific to the post-processing
software (and if you have five different ones used by different map
renderers, each with their own problems and exceptions, you'll have a
lot of work verifying and correcting everything).
And that doesn't sound very efficient.

Is that right or am I missing something?

BTW: First post on this list, hi! I'm OSM user M!dgard, I live in Belgium.

Kind regards
Ruben aka M!dgard

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