SV: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:24
PM
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE:
{W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
In a message dated
8/6/2002 3:47:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
--Those trends has been on the way for a long time and the common use
of such engins are not in view in the nearest future.=I don't
know about Europe but they're for sale in the USA
---Here too at a price. But very few are willing to pay so much, except
some communitys and likes. They pay with taxmoney, of course.
Claes
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SV: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:22
PM
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE:
{W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
In a message dated
8/6/2002 3:16:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Sorry, Lawana, but there rings no bell. Assist in suicide is not
allowesd in Sweden. Maybe you have got a future decribtion of how it could
be in Holland as some talking about that subject has been going on there.
And further: to assist in a suicide unwanted by the patient is a dystopia
story that has no reallity at all. That's murder.
==Holland! ... That's where it was!My apologies
for wrongly accusing Sweden.And you're right -- killing people that
don't want to die is (morally) murder ... but could be legal if the law
allowed it... and unless you have evidence proving otherwise, I'd be hesitant
to arbitrarily label something as imaginary. Right here in the USA
there is a movement afoot to give parents of babies with disabilities 10 days
after their birth to decide whether they can live or die. That's murder too --
but they disguise it with humanitarian arguments about "quality of life" and
how "they would suffer to much if allowed to live" ...
---Sick proposals. There is no way of knowing if it's going to be a
good life or not. And what's a good life? That varys for each individual.
Parents need support to be able to give the child the best. Maybe they are
afraid they have to use taxmoney to help them?
Claes
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SV: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:33
PM
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE:
{W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
In a message dated
8/6/2002 3:47:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The question is: what do you do when you know? Continuing with
your eyes closed as you never heard about it? Or try to find out more and
help other uneducated people to find the knowledege of this world, such as
it really is?
==What do I -- a 55-yr-old housewife with a disabled
husband do -- Other than change my ways -- recycle, reduce unnecessary
trips to town, make things from scratch, reuse existing items, refuse to buy
from companys whose policies harm the environment ... not very muchBut
I -- the columnist ... well -- lets just say I get my point across when I want
to.
---No one can ask you to do more. That's the alternatives a private
person have. I wish we (the private concerned person) had more to say, but
with only one vioce in the elections, no big deal. As a private person, that
is.
However - as columnist - I hope that my writing have helped you to get a
wider view (from the other side of the Atlantic, is that wide enough?) Or just
got the temper up? At the boiling point?
Claes
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SV: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec...
- Original Message -
From:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, August 09, 2002 9:52
PM
Subject: Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE:
{W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec...
In a message dated
8/6/2002 4:07:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
but you take for granted that if there are differences between
the Europen and the American reports the it must be that the american report
are the correct one.
===OK -- the American press is lying ... there are no
tree sitters, the government isn't being sued everytime it turns around over
environmental issues, bussinesses aren't being sued right and left to protect
wetlands, forests, areas that have been mined, there are no laws that demand
the land MUST be restored to the pre-use condition, forests MUST be replanted,
water and air MUST be cleaned up, vehicles MUST get better mileage, use
cleaner fuels and reduce vehicle emmisions... all the nasty things in spray
cans that hurt the atmosphere are still there, nobody recycles, we just use,
use, use at the expense of the rest of the world ... We care about nothing
except for ourselves ... we never lift a finger to help a country in need,
never send help where disasters have occured -- we haven't done anything to
help or protect any country other than our own since 1776 selfish,
self-centered, ugly Americans ... and the rest of the world would be a better
place if all Americans wou! ld just disappear off of the face of the earth
. Interesting concept
... A world-wide dictatorship. Would the world be speaking German? Russian? Or
Chinese? Or would Islam be in total control, with all infidels and athesists 6
feet under?
---I think you have lost control here. There is no
connection to what is going on, really. Or do you really considder the thought
of taking into considderation a cut back of greenhousgasses as a dictatorship
and telling all people to speak the same language? Or do you really think that
the press is always telling the truth? Or telling a part of the truth. That
part that is politically correct? Or is the press telling the truth and
nothing but the truth?
I think that if you want the truth it's not possible to get
it from one and only source. Maybe you can come close if you considder a lot
of different sources, if you are lucky. The chance is that you (and me) is
left in the truth that those politicians want you to believe. No body
knows.
Claes
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Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Ske
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/10 Sat PM 02:48:56 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelt
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Datum: 2002/08/10 Sat AM 03:20:52 CEST
> > > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the
> > > Skelton piec.
> > >
Al Winslow wrote:
> > > -
> > >
> Yes, indeed. When I was a youngster of 50 :-) I owned a modified Chevy
> Camaro. Much fun!
Agreed. When I was in my early 50:s I was driving Yamaha Beluga, a motorscooter with
quite a lot of motorcycle feeling for some years. When I broke my colorbone I stopped.
One never knows what will be broken next. But it was fun while it lasted. Now I think
it's safer to travel on the electronic freeways instead. No risk for broken colobones!
But there is no view and no fresh air.
Claes P
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RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelt
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Datum: 2002/08/10 Sat AM 03:20:52 CEST
> > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the
> > Skelton piec.
> >
> > -
> >
> > Nuclear power is the answer! But I think coal can be burned pretty
> > cleanly these days.
>
> --Yes, if you are only concerned about the sot and those particals, but
> the carbon dioxide is still produced, unfortunatelly.
>
> >
> > One of the silly things about the enviro-wackos pushing for electric
> > cars is that they ignore the fact that there's a pollution-pumping power
> >
> > plant at the other end of the cord that charges the batteries.
>
> --Agreed, as I mentioned in another message.
>
> >
> > And battery manufacture is an extreme pollution-producing industry.
>
> --The led based batteries in any case, but I don't know about the new
> (and very expensive) constructions.
>
> >
> > I'm a big fan of the internal combustion auto engine myself. I've always
> >
> > been partial to large American V-8 engines. Varr
> >
>
> --So am I. I love that mighty sound, not to forget the big Harley
> Davisons. Have you heard what they say? The difference between boys and
> men is the difference in size and prize of their toys!
>
>
--
Yes, indeed. When I was a youngster of 50 :-) I owned a modified Chevy
Camaro. Much fun!
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Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton pie
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/10 Sat AM 03:20:52 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec.
>
> -
>
> Nuclear power is the answer! But I think coal can be burned pretty
> cleanly these days.
--Yes, if you are only concerned about the sot and those particals, but the carbon
dioxide is still produced, unfortunatelly.
>
> One of the silly things about the enviro-wackos pushing for electric
> cars is that they ignore the fact that there's a pollution-pumping power
> plant at the other end of the cord that charges the batteries.
--Agreed, as I mentioned in another message.
>
> And battery manufacture is an extreme pollution-producing industry.
--The led based batteries in any case, but I don't know about the new (and very
expensive) constructions.
>
> I'm a big fan of the internal combustion auto engine myself. I've always
> been partial to large American V-8 engines. Varr
>
--So am I. I love that mighty sound, not to forget the big Harley Davisons. Have you
heard what they say? The difference between boys and men is the difference in size and
prize of their toys!
Claes
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Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: Here's the text of the Skelton
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/10 Sat AM 03:10:44 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: Here's the text of the Skelton
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> > ==
> > Holland! ... That's where it was!
> >
> > My apologies for wrongly accusing Sweden.
> >
>
> All the same to us 'Murricans.
>
> I'm KIDDING.
>
Still you are close. Compared to the distances in USA it's nearly the same, but to get
from south of Sweden to Holland you have to pass two other countries with two other
languages and cultures. One can't complain about the variety in Europe.
Claes
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Sv: Re: {W&P} Vikings
>
> Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Datum: 2002/08/09 Fri PM 10:36:48 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: Re: {W&P} Vikings
>
> In a message dated 8/8/2002 12:03:04 PM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
> > The first picture is a replica of one og the 5 found sunken ships in the
> > sailing in the fjord of Roskilde
>
> =
> Boy! I sure would like to own that! :)
>
They have some smaller rowing boats buildt for sale. They are buildt in the worshops
the same way the vikings did and with the same set of tools. Price? I didn't dare to
ask.
Claes
§( :8-)
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In a message dated 8/8/2002 12:03:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
The first picture is a replica of one og the 5 found sunken ships in the sailing in the fjord of Roskilde
=
Boy! I sure would like to own that! :)
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Sv: Re: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton pie
>
> Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Datum: 2002/08/09 Fri PM 10:03:12 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: Re: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton
>piec...
>
> In a message dated 8/6/2002 7:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
> > And powerstations
> >
> > ==
> > Especially ones that burn coal and oil . It would be interesting to see
> > how their typical daily emissions compare to vehicle emissions ... i.e. How
> > many cars equal a power station?
> >
--Good question, Lawana. Specially as some are trying to sell the idea that electrical
cars, loaded with this electricity, are clean?
Claes
§( :8-)
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In a message dated 8/6/2002 7:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
And powerstations
==
Especially ones that burn coal and oil . It would be interesting to see how their typical daily emissions compare to vehicle emissions ... i.e. How many cars equal a power station?
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RE: {W&P} SV: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/6/2002 8:44:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > The European press isn't censored. It simply tends to be heavily biased > > against the USA. They are perfectly free to be as dishonest in thier > > reporting and as one-sided in their editorials as they like. And I am > > free to point it out. I'd say roughly the same about a fairly large > > segment of the US press. > > == > How very, very true... sometimes not by what they do say, but by what > they > don't say ... the 2000 election is a perfect example . what happened > in > Florida was rammed down our throats ad nauseum ... but the buying of > votes in > Chicago, the polls staying open until almost 10pm in St. Louis, the > letter > telling illegal aliens how and where they could cast their votes in > California how much did you hear about that? > > And in Florida -- how many times did you see anyone point out the fact > that > while the first date could (and was) changed in Gore's favor, the second > date > was carved in stone and couldn't be changed by anyone ... they don't > mention > that, do they... > > The "poor, mistreated democrats" are to busy pointing out that Al > "really did > win and George was selected, not elected" ... and the fact that Bush won > the > electoral vote by any and all recounts .. well, that's become a > "don't > ask, DON'T TELL" ... > > Right here in Oregon ... while Bush was ahead ... an election official > was > overheard telling ??? not to worry, "Gore will win Oregon -- I can > Guarantee > It" . and lo and behold -- Gore suddenly lept ahead ... makes you > wonder, > doesn't it . (in case you don't know -- the whole state of Oregon is > vote > by mail ... and a good portion of us have to use the Florida-type chad > ballots) > - The NY Times and all the other media outfits that paid for those recounts would still be playing it in six-inch red headlines if even one recount had shown that Gore had more votes in Florida. I'm still waiting to hear some in-depth analysis from Democrats about why Gore couldn't even win in his home state of Tennessee. I hope the Dems nominate him again. It'll be an easy win for the lesser of evils [that's me] if they do. Of course unless something startling happens in the next two years, we [the Republicans, that is] will blow 'em out in a landslide in 2004. I'm concerned about this year's congressional elections. Not much I need to do here. Virginia and this district are pretty firmly Republican. We did elect a Democrat governor, but he's an opportunist who does a pretty good imitation of a Republican. The NY Times is getting ridiculous with it obvious anti-Bush bias. The Washinton Times is the only decent ewspaper left in the country. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 8/6/2002 7:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > And powerstations > > > > == > > Especially ones that burn coal and oil . It would be interesting to > > see > > how their typical daily emissions compare to vehicle emissions ... i.e. > > How > > many cars equal a power station? > - Nuclear power is the answer! But I think coal can be burned pretty cleanly these days. One of the silly things about the enviro-wackos pushing for electric cars is that they ignore the fact that there's a pollution-pumping power plant at the other end of the cord that charges the batteries. And battery manufacture is an extreme pollution-producing industry. I'm a big fan of the internal combustion auto engine myself. I've always been partial to large American V-8 engines. Varr ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: Here's the text of the Skelton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > == > Holland! ... That's where it was! > > My apologies for wrongly accusing Sweden. > All the same to us 'Murricans. I'm KIDDING. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > Only my whole country grinding to a halt will satisfy the world that > America > is doing her part? > By golly, I think you've got it. I think they want us dead. Or at least reduced to poverty. They don't realize that if they reduce the enormous productivity and _ability_to_buy_stuff_from_them_ then THEY will go down the drain with us. -- there are only so > many words in the English language, and it's not my fault that great > minds > think alike... > I'll use that one myself somewhere. :-) ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Vikings
In a message dated 8/8/2002 12:03:04 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The first picture is a replica of one og the 5 found sunken ships in the sailing in the fjord of Roskilde = Boy! I sure would like to own that! :) ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
In a message dated 8/6/2002 8:44:46 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The European press isn't censored. It simply tends to be heavily biased against the USA. They are perfectly free to be as dishonest in thier reporting and as one-sided in their editorials as they like. And I am free to point it out. I'd say roughly the same about a fairly large segment of the US press. == How very, very true... sometimes not by what they do say, but by what they don't say ... the 2000 election is a perfect example . what happened in Florida was rammed down our throats ad nauseum ... but the buying of votes in Chicago, the polls staying open until almost 10pm in St. Louis, the letter telling illegal aliens how and where they could cast their votes in California how much did you hear about that? And in Florida -- how many times did you see anyone point out the fact that while the first date could (and was) changed in Gore's favor, the second date was carved in stone and couldn't be changed by anyone ... they don't mention that, do they... The "poor, mistreated democrats" are to busy pointing out that Al "really did win and George was selected, not elected" ... and the fact that Bush won the electoral vote by any and all recounts .. well, that's become a "don't ask, DON'T TELL" ... Right here in Oregon ... while Bush was ahead ... an election official was overheard telling ??? not to worry, "Gore will win Oregon -- I can Guarantee It" . and lo and behold -- Gore suddenly lept ahead ... makes you wonder, doesn't it . (in case you don't know -- the whole state of Oregon is vote by mail ... and a good portion of us have to use the Florida-type chad ballots) ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec...
In a message dated 8/6/2002 7:41:36 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: And powerstations == Especially ones that burn coal and oil . It would be interesting to see how their typical daily emissions compare to vehicle emissions ... i.e. How many cars equal a power station? ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piec...
In a message dated 8/6/2002 4:07:45 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but you take for granted that if there are differences between the Europen and the American reports the it must be that the american report are the correct one. === OK -- the American press is lying ... there are no tree sitters, the government isn't being sued everytime it turns around over environmental issues, bussinesses aren't being sued right and left to protect wetlands, forests, areas that have been mined, there are no laws that demand the land MUST be restored to the pre-use condition, forests MUST be replanted, water and air MUST be cleaned up, vehicles MUST get better mileage, use cleaner fuels and reduce vehicle emmisions... all the nasty things in spray cans that hurt the atmosphere are still there, nobody recycles, we just use, use, use at the expense of the rest of the world ... We care about nothing except for ourselves ... we never lift a finger to help a country in need, never send help where disasters have occured -- we haven't done anything to help or protect any country other than our own since 1776 selfish, self-centered, ugly Americans ... and the rest of the world would be a better place if all Americans wou! ld just disappear off of the face of the earth . Interesting concept ... A world-wide dictatorship. Would the world be speaking German? Russian? Or Chinese? Or would Islam be in total control, with all infidels and athesists 6 feet under? ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
In a message dated 8/6/2002 3:47:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The question is: what do you do when you know? Continuing with your eyes closed as you never heard about it? Or try to find out more and help other uneducated people to find the knowledege of this world, such as it really is? == What do I -- a 55-yr-old housewife with a disabled husband do -- Other than change my ways -- recycle, reduce unnecessary trips to town, make things from scratch, reuse existing items, refuse to buy from companys whose policies harm the environment ... not very much But I -- the columnist ... well -- lets just say I get my point across when I want to. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skel...
In a message dated 8/6/2002 3:47:00 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: --Those trends has been on the way for a long time and the common use of such engins are not in view in the nearest future. = I don't know about Europe but they're for sale in the USA ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: Sv: Re: SV: Sv: RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
In a message dated 8/6/2002 3:16:03 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Sorry, Lawana, but there rings no bell. Assist in suicide is not allowesd in Sweden. Maybe you have got a future decribtion of how it could be in Holland as some talking about that subject has been going on there. And further: to assist in a suicide unwanted by the patient is a dystopia story that has no reallity at all. That's murder. == Holland! ... That's where it was! My apologies for wrongly accusing Sweden. And you're right -- killing people that don't want to die is (morally) murder ... but could be legal if the law allowed it... and unless you have evidence proving otherwise, I'd be hesitant to arbitrarily label something as imaginary. Right here in the USA there is a movement afoot to give parents of babies with disabilities 10 days after their birth to decide whether they can live or die. That's murder too -- but they disguise it with humanitarian arguments about "quality of life" and how "they would suffer to much if allowed to live" ... Lawana ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Here's the text of the Skelton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > I do say that you are not only lumping all in one category. You are > seeing everything in black and white. Everything that's not like in USA > is suspect, is it not? The conservative propaganda is quite effective as > many in US are not interrested of anything but US. The reference frames > will naturally be limited. Everything to the left og US is communism, > right? Or socialism. It sounds better but it's really the same, right? I > don't understand how it's possible for US to work togeather with Tony > Blair! He's the leader of the english Social Democrats (in english: > Labour). > > Of course Social Democrats are socialists when americans read that name. > It's really Social as in Social Security and not Social as in Socialism, > but for a brainwashed conservative american it's far beyond his or her > comprahension, right? > > And this comparison of US with China or Zimbabwe or any other of the > poorest part of the world? Why not compare with other countrys in the > developed world. Northern Europe or what ever. In Sweden (in order to > take a country that I'm familiar with) the Social Democrats are at the > moment in government (with support by the left and the enviromentalists) > but a few years ago they were not. That's why it's a demcratic party. It > has to get the peoples trust or else... > > Since when was there a change in US? That no rightwingpartys depending > of corporate funds were in government? As far as I know: never! Any > party not letting the corporate Amerca rule the country get no funds > there, right? The tax deductions to the corporations tell their story. I > think that US is a close to corporate dictatorship. Open your eyes! > > -- I SEE all the shades of gray. But when the time comes to make choices and take action I don't keep dithering back-and-forth like Hamlet about what to do. Socialism is bad. But I can cooperate with socialists if I need them to help fight a greater, more immediate threat. I'm a pragmatist and a US nationalist. And proud of it. Little boutique socialist countries that are tiny specks in a great ocean of thriving free enterprise capitalism can thrive and prosper as long as they use clever business practices when dealing with the capitalist world. Sweden is highyly socialized but Saab and Volvo are healthy capitalistic enterprises in their business practices. (Europeans have had the use of a lot of their revenue for social programs for a long time. That's because their defense budgets have been small. US taxpayers have provided much of Europe's military defense for the last several decades.) If the whole world went socialist the world economy would become very stagnant and poor. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Sv: RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/03 Sat AM 04:50:56 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 07:55:40 CEST
> > > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of
> > > the Skelton p
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > >... As the biggest user and producer of greenhouse gases don't take
> > > >interrest for economic reasons they, or anybody else that really should
> > > >listen, see no reason.
> > > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > Oh, yeah, sure, sure -- the Red Chinese Commies would do the right thing
> > >
> > > if only the evil, stupid, greedy Americans would sign the Kyoto Treaty.
> > > It's all our fault. It would be a beautiful world if only US capitalism
> > > could be banished from the planet. You could all live in a socialist
> > > paradise. Like the USSR. Remember the USSR?
> > >
> >
> > Hello!!! MacCarty!!! It's 2002 now, and you are talking about communism?
> > I think you are brainwashed by the conservative propaganda. Try to think
> > for your self, please.
> >
> --
>
> Are you of the opinion that the Communists are not running China?
> Actually, in a way they're not. They are becoming somewhat more
> pragmatic and business-oriented over there. Socialism can't bring
> prosperity and the Chinese want to prosper.
>
> I lump all collectivists in the same category. There are a lot of
> socialists who want to turn the human race into a collectivist ant-heap
> in increments. Whether it's done in the impatient style of Che Guevara
> or the inch-by-inch style of Hillary Clinton, the end result is the loss
> of freedom and, sooner or later, an economic collapse from which there
> is no recovery as long as socialistic quackery is practiced.
>
I do say that you are not only lumping all in one category. You are seeing everything
in black and white. Everything that's not like in USA is suspect, is it not? The
conservative propaganda is quite effective as many in US are not interrested of
anything but US. The reference frames will naturally be limited. Everything to the
left og US is communism, right? Or socialism. It sounds better but it's really the
same, right? I don't understand how it's possible for US to work togeather with Tony
Blair! He's the leader of the english Social Democrats (in english: Labour).
Of course Social Democrats are socialists when americans read that name. It's really
Social as in Social Security and not Social as in Socialism, but for a brainwashed
conservative american it's far beyond his or her comprahension, right?
And this comparison of US with China or Zimbabwe or any other of the poorest part of
the world? Why not compare with other countrys in the developed world. Northern Europe
or what ever. In Sweden (in order to take a country that I'm familiar with) the Social
Democrats are at the moment in government (with support by the left and the
enviromentalists) but a few years ago they were not. That's why it's a demcratic
party. It has to get the peoples trust or else...
Since when was there a change in US? That no rightwingpartys depending of corporate
funds were in government? As far as I know: never! Any party not letting the corporate
Amerca rule the country get no funds there, right? The tax deductions to the
corporations tell their story. I think that US is a close to corporate dictatorship.
Open your eyes!
Claes
§( :8-)
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RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 07:55:40 CEST
> > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of
> > the Skelton p
> >
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >... As the biggest user and producer of greenhouse gases don't take
> > >interrest for economic reasons they, or anybody else that really should
> > >listen, see no reason.
> > >
> > ---
> >
> > Oh, yeah, sure, sure -- the Red Chinese Commies would do the right thing
> >
> > if only the evil, stupid, greedy Americans would sign the Kyoto Treaty.
> > It's all our fault. It would be a beautiful world if only US capitalism
> > could be banished from the planet. You could all live in a socialist
> > paradise. Like the USSR. Remember the USSR?
> >
>
> Hello!!! MacCarty!!! It's 2002 now, and you are talking about communism?
> I think you are brainwashed by the conservative propaganda. Try to think
> for your self, please.
>
--
Are you of the opinion that the Communists are not running China?
Actually, in a way they're not. They are becoming somewhat more
pragmatic and business-oriented over there. Socialism can't bring
prosperity and the Chinese want to prosper.
I lump all collectivists in the same category. There are a lot of
socialists who want to turn the human race into a collectivist ant-heap
in increments. Whether it's done in the impatient style of Che Guevara
or the inch-by-inch style of Hillary Clinton, the end result is the loss
of freedom and, sooner or later, an economic collapse from which there
is no recovery as long as socialistic quackery is practiced.
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A93MR48T18
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Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 07:55:40 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton p
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >... As the biggest user and producer of greenhouse gases don't take
> >interrest for economic reasons they, or anybody else that really should
> >listen, see no reason.
> >
> ---
>
> Oh, yeah, sure, sure -- the Red Chinese Commies would do the right thing
> if only the evil, stupid, greedy Americans would sign the Kyoto Treaty.
> It's all our fault. It would be a beautiful world if only US capitalism
> could be banished from the planet. You could all live in a socialist
> paradise. Like the USSR. Remember the USSR?
>
Hello!!! MacCarty!!! It's 2002 now, and you are talking about communism? I think you
are brainwashed by the conservative propaganda. Try to think for your self, please.
-
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RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton p
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >... As the biggest user and producer of greenhouse gases don't take >interrest for economic reasons they, or anybody else that really should >listen, see no reason. > --- Oh, yeah, sure, sure -- the Red Chinese Commies would do the right thing if only the evil, stupid, greedy Americans would sign the Kyoto Treaty. It's all our fault. It would be a beautiful world if only US capitalism could be banished from the planet. You could all live in a socialist paradise. Like the USSR. Remember the USSR? ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece..
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 04:21:47 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 02:46:35 CEST
> > > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton
> > > piece...
> > > -
> > >
> > > For the future, it would be wise for the world to stop using phony
> > > environmental concerns as a means to undermine the strength of the USA.
> > >
> > > Any international treaty on pollution will have to be fair and
> > > even-handed. China will have to scrub the smoke from its factories
> > > exactly as we do. Or no treaty.
> > >
> > > Most of the whining and carping about the Kyoto Treaty has nothing to do
> > >
> > > with real concern for the environment. It's politics -- anti-US
> > > politics. People really concerned with the environment would
> > > insist upon a realistic treaty that treats Communist smokestacks exactly
> > >
> > > the same os US smokestacks.
> > >
> >
> > I think that's not what you are after. You want no treatment of US
> > smokestacks.
> >
> > Claes
> >
> >
> --
>
> US smokestacks have long since been the subject of very restrictive _US_
> pollution-control laws. We don't need the advice of foreigners about how
> to manage our lives, thank you. If you want to see to it that the air is
> clean, turn your attention to Red China. If they aren't too busy
> murdering Tibetans maybe they'll listen -- but I doubt it.
>
So do I, Al. As the biggest user and producer of greenhouse gases don't take interrest
for economic reasons they, or anybody else that really should listen, see no reason.
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RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 02:46:35 CEST
> > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton
> > piece...
> > -
> >
> > For the future, it would be wise for the world to stop using phony
> > environmental concerns as a means to undermine the strength of the USA.
> >
> > Any international treaty on pollution will have to be fair and
> > even-handed. China will have to scrub the smoke from its factories
> > exactly as we do. Or no treaty.
> >
> > Most of the whining and carping about the Kyoto Treaty has nothing to do
> >
> > with real concern for the environment. It's politics -- anti-US
> > politics. People really concerned with the environment would
> > insist upon a realistic treaty that treats Communist smokestacks exactly
> >
> > the same os US smokestacks.
> >
>
> I think that's not what you are after. You want no treatment of US
> smokestacks.
>
> Claes
>
>
--
US smokestacks have long since been the subject of very restrictive _US_
pollution-control laws. We don't need the advice of foreigners about how
to manage our lives, thank you. If you want to see to it that the air is
clean, turn your attention to Red China. If they aren't too busy
murdering Tibetans maybe they'll listen -- but I doubt it.
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Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 02:46:35 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> -
>
> For the future, it would be wise for the world to stop using phony
> environmental concerns as a means to undermine the strength of the USA.
>
> Any international treaty on pollution will have to be fair and
> even-handed. China will have to scrub the smoke from its factories
> exactly as we do. Or no treaty.
>
> Most of the whining and carping about the Kyoto Treaty has nothing to do
> with real concern for the environment. It's politics -- anti-US
> politics. People really concerned with the environment would
> insist upon a realistic treaty that treats Communist smokestacks exactly
> the same os US smokestacks.
>
I think that's not what you are after. You want no treatment of US smokestacks.
Claes
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RE: {W&P} Sv: RE: Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 12:49:41 CEST
> > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> >
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri AM 03:02:01 CEST
> > > > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > Ämne: Re: SV: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> > > >
> > > > In a message dated 7/30/2002 5:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > (RC) My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it
> > > > > mantra is a load of hooey. >>
> > > > > =
> > > > > (LG) For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other
> > > > > country
> > > > > that has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win,
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > > hands down. We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has
> > > > > ever
> > > > > seen.
> > > > >
> > > > > (AW) Our main fault as a nation is that we are too fair, to humane, to
> > > > > willing to meet others halfway.
> > > > >
> > > > > (CP) > Like in the Kyoto agreement?
> > > >
> > > > ==
> > > > America would sign that treaty if the same rules were applied to all the
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > countries. But the way it's written, we end up getting our economy
> > > > ruined
> > > > while other nations get a free pass to pollute as much as they want
> > > > to.
> > > >
> > > > Lawana
> > >
> > > How could any country that's nearly use no petrol save, in absolute
> > > numbers the same amount as the country that's polluting 25% of an 6% of
> > > the earth inhabitants? The dirtiest have the most cleaning to do. If you
> > >
> > > have been building your economy on polluting it's your problem, right?
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> > --
> >
> > The productivity of the USA is one of the most important factors in the
> > prosperity enjoyed by the developed world. Productivity can't be
> > achieved without consuming resources. If you cripple the US economy for
> > some imaginary leftist/enviromental-wacko reason you will, at the same
> > time, wreck the global economy.
> >
> > Europeans who enjoy their computors, cars, and modern comforts would be
> > wise to pause and think about how intertwined the economies of all
> > nations are. If you damage us you damage yourself.
> >
> > In short, a poverty-stricken USA wouldn't be able to buy your products.
> > Think about it.
> >
> > The USA is actually one of the most conscientious nations in maintaining
> >
> > environmental standards in industry.
> >
> > Red China, which is growing rapidly in output as it begins to adopt more
> >
> > capitalistic practices in its business operations, is one of the most
> > reckless nations from an environmental standpoint.
> >
> > A treaty that allows China to pollute without restraint while it puts
> > draconian environmental restrictions on the USA, which is the great
> > engine of the western world's economy, is a ridiculous idea.
> >
>
> Still... To do nothing is what's called a Döbelns medicine. Witch needs
> an expalnation.
>
> von Döbeln was a general that had been wounded and had great pain in his
> tent by his forces in the finnish war. He was forbidden by his doctor to
> participate in the next battle. But he had to, and the doctor moved away
> all medicine and said: allright, you can act to day, but to morrow it
> will be seven times worse. He went out to his forces and they won the
> battle inspired by his appearance. but the day after the pain was seven
> times worse.
>
> We are talking about what's going to be done for the future. Not what
> have been done in the past. No matter how good and clever that has been.
> That will not help for the future. Sorry.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
Sv: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
>
> Från: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri PM 12:49:41 CEST
> Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Ämne: RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
>
>
>
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri AM 03:02:01 CEST
> > > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > Ämne: Re: SV: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> > >
> > > In a message dated 7/30/2002 5:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > >
> > > > (RC) My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it
> > > > mantra is a load of hooey. >>
> > > > =
> > > > (LG) For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other
> > > > country
> > > > that has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win,
> > > >
> > > > hands down. We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has
> > > > ever
> > > > seen.
> > > >
> > > > (AW) Our main fault as a nation is that we are too fair, to humane, to
> > > > willing to meet others halfway.
> > > >
> > > > (CP) > Like in the Kyoto agreement?
> > >
> > > ==
> > > America would sign that treaty if the same rules were applied to all the
> > >
> > > countries. But the way it's written, we end up getting our economy
> > > ruined
> > > while other nations get a free pass to pollute as much as they want
> > > to.
> > >
> > > Lawana
> >
> > How could any country that's nearly use no petrol save, in absolute
> > numbers the same amount as the country that's polluting 25% of an 6% of
> > the earth inhabitants? The dirtiest have the most cleaning to do. If you
> > have been building your economy on polluting it's your problem, right?
> >
> > Claes
> > §( :8-)
> >
> --
>
> The productivity of the USA is one of the most important factors in the
> prosperity enjoyed by the developed world. Productivity can't be
> achieved without consuming resources. If you cripple the US economy for
> some imaginary leftist/enviromental-wacko reason you will, at the same
> time, wreck the global economy.
>
> Europeans who enjoy their computors, cars, and modern comforts would be
> wise to pause and think about how intertwined the economies of all
> nations are. If you damage us you damage yourself.
>
> In short, a poverty-stricken USA wouldn't be able to buy your products.
> Think about it.
>
> The USA is actually one of the most conscientious nations in maintaining
> environmental standards in industry.
>
> Red China, which is growing rapidly in output as it begins to adopt more
> capitalistic practices in its business operations, is one of the most
> reckless nations from an environmental standpoint.
>
> A treaty that allows China to pollute without restraint while it puts
> draconian environmental restrictions on the USA, which is the great
> engine of the western world's economy, is a ridiculous idea.
>
Still... To do nothing is what's called a Döbelns medicine. Witch needs an expalnation.
von Döbeln was a general that had been wounded and had great pain in his tent by his
forces in the finnish war. He was forbidden by his doctor to participate in the next
battle. But he had to, and the doctor moved away all medicine and said: allright, you
can act to day, but to morrow it will be seven times worse. He went out to his forces
and they won the battle inspired by his appearance. but the day after the pain was
seven times worse.
We are talking about what's going to be done for the future. Not what have been done
in the past. No matter how good and clever that has been. That will not help for the
future. Sorry.
Claes
§( :8-)
-
WebMail från Tele2 http://www.tele2.se
-
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RE: {W&P} Sv: Re: SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> >
> > Från: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Datum: 2002/08/02 Fri AM 03:02:01 CEST
> > Till: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Ämne: Re: SV: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> >
> > In a message dated 7/30/2002 5:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> >
> > > (RC) My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it
> > > mantra is a load of hooey. >>
> > > =
> > > (LG) For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other
> > > country
> > > that has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win,
> > >
> > > hands down. We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has
> > > ever
> > > seen.
> > >
> > > (AW) Our main fault as a nation is that we are too fair, to humane, to
> > > willing to meet others halfway.
> > >
> > > (CP) > Like in the Kyoto agreement?
> >
> > ==
> > America would sign that treaty if the same rules were applied to all the
> >
> > countries. But the way it's written, we end up getting our economy
> > ruined
> > while other nations get a free pass to pollute as much as they want
> > to.
> >
> > Lawana
>
> How could any country that's nearly use no petrol save, in absolute
> numbers the same amount as the country that's polluting 25% of an 6% of
> the earth inhabitants? The dirtiest have the most cleaning to do. If you
> have been building your economy on polluting it's your problem, right?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
--
The productivity of the USA is one of the most important factors in the
prosperity enjoyed by the developed world. Productivity can't be
achieved without consuming resources. If you cripple the US economy for
some imaginary leftist/enviromental-wacko reason you will, at the same
time, wreck the global economy.
Europeans who enjoy their computors, cars, and modern comforts would be
wise to pause and think about how intertwined the economies of all
nations are. If you damage us you damage yourself.
In short, a poverty-stricken USA wouldn't be able to buy your products.
Think about it.
The USA is actually one of the most conscientious nations in maintaining
environmental standards in industry.
Red China, which is growing rapidly in output as it begins to adopt more
capitalistic practices in its business operations, is one of the most
reckless nations from an environmental standpoint.
A treaty that allows China to pollute without restraint while it puts
draconian environmental restrictions on the USA, which is the great
engine of the western world's economy, is a ridiculous idea.
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Re: {W&P} SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
In a message dated 8/1/2002 8:09:12 PM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Zaire sounds like a dandy little vacation spot. = It was an experience, to say the least. :) ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/30/2002 5:08:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > > Have any of you been living in many other countrys in order to be able > > to > > compare? Or are you just saluting the flag, no matter what? > > = > My husband spent 6 months in Zaire as a powerline forman. He supervised > a > crew of 100 cannibals. One of his crew was killed in Kinshasa by a > soldier > who wanted his shoes. The chief of one village didn't want the powerline > > going through his village so the soldiers came, took the chief and his > whole > family out in the middle of the village, killed them all, buried them > where > they were killed and then a tower was built over their grave. > > He also visited Italy (Rome) where they have armed soldiers on > practically > every corner. > > We've both been to Mexico and I've been to Canada. My brother-in-law > spent 2 > years in Germany. A close family friend was in Korea for 6 months. And > I've > had pen-pals in England, Australia and the Netherlands that I wrote to > for > years. > > Lawana > - Zaire sounds like a dandy little vacation spot. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
The very fact that lying creeps like this have a forum is proof of our
tolerance and greatness Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Claes Persson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 7:04 AM
Subject: SV: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
> - Original Message -
> From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 30, 2002 2:57 AM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
>
>
> >
> >
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> > > In a message dated 7/27/02 9:45:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > << My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it
> > > mantra is a load of hooey. >>
> > >
> > > =
> > > For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other country
> > > that
> > > has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win,
> > > hands
> > > down.
> > > We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has ever seen.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Our main fault as a nation is that we are too fair, to humane, to
> > willing to meet others halfway.
>
> --Like in the Kyoto agreement?
> >
> > Our critics should be very thankful that Americans of my general outlook
> > are not fully in charge.
>
> --That's may be the reason that you are not in charge?
> >
> > I'd start with a massive slaughter in the Bakaa Valley, which is a
> > hotbed of terrorist bases. From what I've read, about a dozen low-yield
> > nukes delivered by Tomahawk missiles would get it done. Of ourse I'd
> > leave the planning details to the miltary experts. It might take 20
> > warheads. Or 5. I wouldn't trouble myself with the minor details if I
> > wee commander-in-chief.
>
> --No, but worrying about the details will come later, I think.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
>
>
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RE: {W&P} VB: Emailing: foto7w
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/28/02 2:11:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << When planes crash into the earth at a steep angle there is often > little > or nothing left of the plane showing above ground. The entire thing > smashes itself into a hole. Aircraft are relatively fragile for their > size and weight. >> > > = > Not to mention the fact that it was fully fueled .. I think you and I gravitate toward facts and common sense. Others here like to wallow in pointless conspiracy fantasies -- particularly if there is an anti-US slant in it. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} VB: Emailing: foto7w
In a message dated 7/28/02 2:11:45 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << When planes crash into the earth at a steep angle there is often little or nothing left of the plane showing above ground. The entire thing smashes itself into a hole. Aircraft are relatively fragile for their size and weight. >> = Not to mention the fact that it was fully fueled ... ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/27/02 9:45:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it > mantra is a load of hooey. >> > > = > For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other country > that > has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win, > hands > down. > We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has ever seen. > Our main fault as a nation is that we are too fair, to humane, to willing to meet others halfway. Our critics should be very thankful that Americans of my general outlook are not fully in charge. I'd start with a massive slaughter in the Bakaa Valley, which is a hotbed of terrorist bases. From what I've read, about a dozen low-yield nukes delivered by Tomahawk missiles would get it done. Of ourse I'd leave the planning details to the miltary experts. It might take 20 warheads. Or 5. I wouldn't trouble myself with the minor details if I wee commander-in-chief. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
In a message dated 7/27/02 9:44:21 PM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << MSNBC = Bill Gates Fox News = Ruppert Murdoch CNN = ??? >> = CNN is Ted Turner ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/27/02 6:20:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << I'm not going to keep repeating the fact that the TIPS program has > othing to do with snooping in people's homes. One final time: It is >> > > = > Which just proves the old adage: You can lead a horse to water, but you > can't > make him drink . you can answer peoples questions by telling them > the > truth, but you can't make them hear or understand what you're saying. > Yes, it's a burden we truth-tellers have to bear. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
In a message dated 7/27/02 9:45:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it mantra is a load of hooey. >> = For all her faults, I'd put this country up against any other country that has ever existed and there's no doubt in my mind the USA would win, hands down. We may not be perfect, but we're the best this world has ever seen. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > In a message dated 7/27/02 6:07:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > << I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of > the > plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on > cell phones to loved ones. >> > > = > Including Barbara Olson, the wife of the Solicitor General of the United > > States... > Yes, I watched that wonderful lady so often on TV political talk shows that I almost felt that I knew her. Solicitor General is a political and legal hero. He argued the Florida election case in the Supreme Court for the Bush campaign. And he is an advocate for the Second Amendment. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
In a message dated 7/27/02 9:45:38 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << Maybe killing Iraqi children by bombing the water infrastructure during the 1991 "war" isn't enough to hoist up the flag. 50,000 children die every month in Iraq - directly related to not having clean water to drink. >> Maybe Saddam would be better off to fix his water system instead of sending all that money to reward Palestine suicide bombers -- you think? ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
In a message dated 7/27/02 6:20:16 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I'm not going to keep repeating the fact that the TIPS program has othing to do with snooping in people's homes. One final time: It is >> = Which just proves the old adage: You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink . you can answer peoples questions by telling them the truth, but you can't make them hear or understand what you're saying. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
In a message dated 7/27/02 6:07:11 AM Pacific Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: << I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on cell phones to loved ones. >> = Including Barbara Olson, the wife of the Solicitor General of the United States... ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: VB: Emailing: foto7w
I, Al Winslow wrote: > Speculating can be fun, but there has to be some rational basis for it. > This one makes no sense at all. I've said my last word on it unless > someone comes up with a video tape of a Ryder Truck exploding next to > the Pentagon, or a UFO zapping the building with a ray-gun. >* My mind changed. I'm going to write one more little bit on the subject. I'm going to repeat myself. I often repeat myself because after giving people logic, common sense and reason, they refuse to get it -- so I use the technique of the TV advertisers: keep pounding the message and maybe it will finally penetrate their skulls. We have all seen the videotape that the French TV crew shot of the first plane slamming into the World Trade Center. No pieces of the aircraft fell back outside of the building!!! A hole was left just like the hole in the Pentagon. GET IT?! Aircraft traveling fast disappear when they slam squarely into a building. Think about it. It's not like you have no other similar occurrence with which to compare the Pentagon crash. You have the first WTC crash. On tape. NOW I'm through with this subject. > > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: VB: Emailing: foto7w
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 11:11 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} VB: Emailing: foto7w
>
>
> >
> > I'm unable to access the pictures.
>
> --Sorry about that. Computercommunications are fantastic - when they
> work!
>
> >
> > I'm asking this in all honesty and good faith -- what is the theory of
> > what happened if it wasn't a plane?
>
> --I have myself no theory, but I have seen on a site speculations and
> photos from a camera overlooking a parkingplace that shows, over a sighn
> in the sight direction, the fin of an aeroplane, but that fin is not of
> the size of an airliner but rather a smaller jet. Unfortunatelly I think
> I have waited too long to bring it up. Now I can not find this site
> again. If this photo was real? I don't know.
>
> >
> > Why would the hundreds of witnesses on the busy roads lie about seeing a
> >
> > plane fly into the building? It was a normal Tuesday morning with lots
> > of traffic in the area. It's a very busy area. There's no way to fake
> > it.
>
> --Puzzling, I agree. But still - the hole and the lack of debree outside
> indicates that something is wrong. Maybe.
> >
> > What possible motivation could there be for the creation of a false
> > report that it was a plane if it was something else? On a morning when
> > three other planes definitely crashed, two of them in full view of TV
> > cameras from several angles, why would the government or whoever need to
> >
> > invent a story?
>
> --I don't know. It's difficult to make a guess from Sweden. Those more
> used to USA could maybe come up with something?
> >
> > You can see for yourself that the plane entered the building at ground
> > level. It was reported that it hit the ground just before it hit the
> > building. That would have started the breakup of the wings, etc.
>
> --I can see that something entered the building at ground level, but the
> absence of debree make me wonder if it was an airliner of the size
> indicated in the reports.
> >
> > 150 tons of airframe going maybe 400 miles per hour would bury itself in
> >
> > any building. The momentum would carry pieces and parts well into the
> > building.
>
> --With that momentum in mind you must expect that the two giant and
> heavy engines would have made separate holes of their own on each side
> of the hole the fuselage have done. Or stayed outside beeing nearly two
> storys high.
>
> >
> > When planes crash into the earth at a steep angle there is often little
> > or nothing left of the plane showing above ground. The entire thing
> > smashes itself into a hole. Aircraft are relatively fragile for their
> > size and weight.
>
> --Right, but there is also holes after the engines made at impact, and
> there is no such things in Pentagon.
>
> --I must add to this that for me here in Sweden this make no sense as I
> can not guess why and whatfore this should have been faked. But still...
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
>
--
We can find websites and articles that speculate about many things.
There are people who believe -- or pretend to believe because it sells
books -- that Elvis didn't die. I'd put this speculation about the
Pentagon attack in the same category.
We saw the hole in the building. SOMETHING made that hole.
Since there were passengers on Flight 77 who died and hundreds if not
thousands of eyewitnesses who SAW the plane fly into the building I'd
say that it is a pretty safe bet that the plane did, indeed, fly into
the building.
Again -- we saw the hole in the building. SOMETHING made that hole.
It happened on the same morning when three other planes were most
definitely hijacked. We SAW two of the crash into the WTC ourselves. So
it isn't exactly the height of gullibilty to think that anoter plane
flew ito the Pentagon.
The people on the plane were not making up the stories they were telling
their loved ones via cell phone.
Speculating can be fun, but there has to be some rational basis for it.
This one makes no sense at all. I've said my last word on it unless
someone comes up with a video tape of a Ryder Truck exploding next to
the Pentagon, or a UFO zapping the building with a ray-gun.
___
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A93MR48T18
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RE: {W&P} VB: Emailing: close
Claes Persson wrote: > > --=_NextPart_001_0151_01C2367B.C0895C20 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > In spite of the ill feelings between some of the members on this list I > will dare to send some photos. All the time since a time after 9/11 I > have been looking at photos of what happened and also been surprized > over how idiotic people can be behaving. Only one thing have been > irritating. Not what I have seen but something that I've not seen and > that should be there when it comes to the crash in the pentagon. > > I miss any trace of an airliner! Nothing can be seen in any of the many > photos. Wings and above all, the engines (diameter: duoble mansize) and > after what I have seen a plane skidding before hitting the pentagon > should have skidded over a highway and there is no trace of that. > Someone has put forward the idea that the impact itself should have > pulverized everything. The mighty engines too? The fin 4-5 storys high? > No trace. No disrespect intended. But still...? If any one can send me a > photo that shows the rests of the areoplane I will be very thankfull. > This is bothering me. > -- You couldn't see anything of the first plane that hit the World Trade center in NY either. It left a gaping hole and not a visible trace of airplane. The second plane struck at the edge of the building and a little bit of debris from the right side of the plane hit the ground, but most of that one also dissappeared. Again, that much mass going that fast is going to bury itself deeply in whatever it hits, unless it hits something like a solid granite cliff. Even then the pieces of plane would be rendered very small and difficult to identify. Remember, the planes of 9/11 didn't glide to a landing on a flat field at normal landing speed. The ones that hit the WTC were traveling in excess of 500 miles per hour, plowing into the building at a perpendicular angle. I haven't heard what the speed of the Pentagon plane was but it was probably hauling ass. Those things have to maintain a pretty good speed just to keep flying. I'd be amazed if there was anything identifiable as a plane part remaining outside the building in such a direct impact. You don't have to be a physicist or a ballistics expert to understand that. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} VB: Emailing: foto7w
I'm unable to access the pictures. I'm asking this in all honesty and good faith -- what is the theory of what happened if it wasn't a plane? Why would the hundreds of witnesses on the busy roads lie about seeing a plane fly into the building? It was a normal Tuesday morning with lots of traffic in the area. It's a very busy area. There's no way to fake it. What possible motivation could there be for the creation of a false report that it was a plane if it was something else? On a morning when three other planes definitely crashed, two of them in full view of TV cameras from several angles, why would the government or whoever need to invent a story? You can see for yourself that the plane entered the building at ground level. It was reported that it hit the ground just before it hit the building. That would have started the breakup of the wings, etc. 150 tons of airframe going maybe 400 miles per hour would bury itself in any building. The momentum would carry pieces and parts well into the building. When planes crash into the earth at a steep angle there is often little or nothing left of the plane showing above ground. The entire thing smashes itself into a hole. Aircraft are relatively fragile for their size and weight. AW -- Claes Persson wrote: > > --=_NextPart_001_0171_01C2367C.0F1B7EE0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > - Original Message - > From: Claes Persson > To: Claes Mig Själv Persson > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 6:35 PM > Subject: Emailing: foto7w > > > > Your files are attached and ready to send with this message. > > > > --=_NextPart_001_0171_01C2367C.0F1B7EE0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > > > > > > > > - Original Message - > From: href="mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>Claes > Persson > To: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]"; > [EMAIL PROTECTED]>Claes Mig Själv Persson > Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 6:35 PM > Subject: Emailing: foto7w > > Your files are attached and > ready to send with this message. > > > > > --=_NextPart_001_0171_01C2367C.0F1B7EE0-- > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
This is an unprecedented personal attack ,slanderous and completely untrue.
This kind of insane libel should not be tolerated by the members of this
list. Please show your agreement by blocking this irresponsible liar and
support me against this Looney toon.Condemn his type of "debate by erasing
him from your messages. He is in violation of the no flame and the URL
posting rules. He has been blocked on the Politics list for the same type of
sexual laden comments about the others on the list You could be next! Thank
you Jim
- Original Message -
From: "rod/christine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> Al Winslow wrote:
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > >
> > >
> > > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > >
> > > >
http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.co
m/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> > >
> > > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner
that's
> > > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> > > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> > > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> > > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
> > >
> > > Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> > > wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have
an
> > >
> > > answere?
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---
> >
> > I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
> > tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
> > that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
> > and/or common sense.
> >
> > I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
> > plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
> > cell phones to loved ones.
> >
> > There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
> > Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was watched
> > as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
> > streets and roads.
> >
> > The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
> > already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
> >
> > September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
> > considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
> > television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
> > plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
> >
> > It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
> > divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
> > I'm not a psychiatrist.
>
> ===
>
> You dumb shit - the article had nothing to do with conspiracy stuff.
> You've been reading too much James Gale bullshit about me.
>
> I'm just waiting for the answers from the government - and the
> government hasn't been forthcoming!
>
> Whoever planned the attacks deserves to die!
>
> On the Politics list - (your buddy) James Gale (creep) advocates
> mutilating girls (deflowering) and then raping them. He also solicits
> for some sort of wife-swapping (adultery) crap. This is a public forum
> and read by grade school children and junior high/high school children.
> I would have posted some of his insanity on this listserv - but the
> {W&P} do not allow it.
>
> I'm not a leftwing or rightwing nut.
>
> My youngest daughter, subscribed to that listserv back in December of
> 1999, when it was just beginning. It was some sort of class project for
> their homeschool class. James Gale wa
Re: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
You will be receiving a letter from my attorneys as soon as they research
your address over this slanderous note. You called me by name in a public
forum accused me of sexual deviancy and other assorted slanderous things and
I intend to be compensated by you for this! I'm going to squeeze you until
your dry Jim
- Original Message -
From: "rod/christine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Sunday, July 28, 2002 1:04 AM
Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 4:38 PM
> > Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
> >
> >
> > Rod wrote answering Al:
> > > ===
> > >
> > > Sheez, should they come to your state and chop down EVERY tree?
Better
> > > forest management would be to let the forest burn when it is nature
> > > doing it (lightning).
> > >
> > > The "weekend" camper (female no less!) who started the Sequoia one in
> > > California was a nutjob for even playing with a lighter or matches!
> > > What the hell was she thinking? Must have been a public school
> > > education, huh? - you think so?
> > >
> > > So much of the western part of USA is owned by the gov't (public
lands)
> > > and managed quite poorly over the years. I don't think it can be
blamed
> > >
> > > on the "leftists" (whatever that means). We are near the Little
> > > Missouri National Grasslands - and it is "fairly well" managed, but
> > > always is back-and-forth - depending on whether a Jimmy Carter (goofy)
> > > or a Ronny Reagan (senile) is inhabitating the Executive Branch.
> > >
> > > Up here, it is the levels of the six main-stem dams, that hold the
> > > waters of the upper parts (States) of the Missouri River that are
bones
> > > of contention. It all depends on the winter snow packs in Montana -
the
> > >
> > > past couple years have been way below normal - bigtime! The lower
parts
> > >
> > > (States) want the water for barge traffic (navigation) and the upper
> > > parts (States) want it for irrigation and tourism. They generate
> > > electricity too! The rivers are losing all their native fish
species -
> > > they are "locked" into the areas between the dam sites.
> > >
> > > The Indian Tribes lost prime bottomlands (many, many beautiful trees
> > > too) when the water began backing up. When the barges (1830's) first
> > > began coming up the Missouri and needed firewood to power the barges -
> > > the trees (forests) along the river were chopped down and never
> > > replaced... so all the animals had no "cover" (nesting) and many
species
> > >
> > > simply went extinct!
> > >
> > > My opinion is that chopping down entire forests is sheer stupidity.
> > > Better management would be to maybe take 5-10 percent of the forest
and
> > > leave the rest intact. Another 10 years or so, and come an take a
> > > different portion of the forest. It could be done without the gov't
> > > always building roads at taxpayer expense!
> > >
> > > Helicopters are a cost-efficient way of selectively taking out trees -
> > > one-by-one. This is taking place in parts of Idaho, Montana,
> > > Washington, British Columbia, etc. I'm sure it is done in other parts
> > > of the world (earth) too.
> > >
> > > Finally, the Hemp Plant is the answer to the paper problem. But the
> > > rightwingers are afraid that some kids might smoke some - and go crazy
> > > and have to be put on Ritalin. The Hearst Corporation (newsprint) is
> > > always putting out scare stories on marijuana (maryjane) & twisting it
> > > wit hemp as being some sort of devils weed, and such nonsense. Such
is
> > > the life and times in 21st century America.
> > >
> > >
> > > Rod
> > >
> >
> > I think that this is quite a good analysis of the problem. As far as US
> > goes. The terrible thing is that deforresting is going on world wide and
> > in a scale that's horyfying. South America (the Amazon Basin) All the
> > islands like Sumatra, Jawa and the others are deforeted in a terrible
> > speed without any atempt to replant. The different kind of animals
> > dependent on the rainforrest, from Orangutang and down the sca
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 6:01 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
>
>
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:30 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
> > >
> > >
> > > > Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
> > > >
> > > > http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/07/07262002/s_47959.asp
> > > >
> > > > =
> > > >
> > >
> > > Too many people will destroy the enviroment also for the humans in the
> > > long run and on the way result in more or less surprizing happenings.
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> >
> > ===
> >
> > No doubt. The one "humorous" part of the article was that - the eels
> > were even jumping onto the riverbanks edge! It's got to be
> > really-really! _NASTY_WATER_ for the eels to leave the confines of river
> >
> > life.
> >
> > All roads lead to Rome. (sad face inserted)
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> I have visited Rome, but that was a long time ago, and I never saw any
> river there. Although I think that the eels don't agree anymore with:
> all roads leads to Rome. THEY JUST WANT TO GET THE HELL OUT OF THERE.
> (sometimes the roads leed to LANDSKRONA, SWEDEN).
>
> Claes
===
I was once there in the Army & once (with the wife & kids) in the 80's.
I don't remember the Tiber either!
Washington, DC has a river by the name of Tiber. The beginnings of
Washington is quite interesting - i'll send a URL with some interesting
facts on its beginnings.
The owner of the land, was a Catholic and his last name was Pope. It's
weird, but it was based on the District of Cydonia. (ASON)
Rod
.
___
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A93MR48T18
==^
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 4:38 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
>
>
> Rod wrote answering Al:
> > ===
> >
> > Sheez, should they come to your state and chop down EVERY tree? Better
> > forest management would be to let the forest burn when it is nature
> > doing it (lightning).
> >
> > The "weekend" camper (female no less!) who started the Sequoia one in
> > California was a nutjob for even playing with a lighter or matches!
> > What the hell was she thinking? Must have been a public school
> > education, huh? - you think so?
> >
> > So much of the western part of USA is owned by the gov't (public lands)
> > and managed quite poorly over the years. I don't think it can be blamed
> >
> > on the "leftists" (whatever that means). We are near the Little
> > Missouri National Grasslands - and it is "fairly well" managed, but
> > always is back-and-forth - depending on whether a Jimmy Carter (goofy)
> > or a Ronny Reagan (senile) is inhabitating the Executive Branch.
> >
> > Up here, it is the levels of the six main-stem dams, that hold the
> > waters of the upper parts (States) of the Missouri River that are bones
> > of contention. It all depends on the winter snow packs in Montana - the
> >
> > past couple years have been way below normal - bigtime! The lower parts
> >
> > (States) want the water for barge traffic (navigation) and the upper
> > parts (States) want it for irrigation and tourism. They generate
> > electricity too! The rivers are losing all their native fish species -
> > they are "locked" into the areas between the dam sites.
> >
> > The Indian Tribes lost prime bottomlands (many, many beautiful trees
> > too) when the water began backing up. When the barges (1830's) first
> > began coming up the Missouri and needed firewood to power the barges -
> > the trees (forests) along the river were chopped down and never
> > replaced... so all the animals had no "cover" (nesting) and many species
> >
> > simply went extinct!
> >
> > My opinion is that chopping down entire forests is sheer stupidity.
> > Better management would be to maybe take 5-10 percent of the forest and
> > leave the rest intact. Another 10 years or so, and come an take a
> > different portion of the forest. It could be done without the gov't
> > always building roads at taxpayer expense!
> >
> > Helicopters are a cost-efficient way of selectively taking out trees -
> > one-by-one. This is taking place in parts of Idaho, Montana,
> > Washington, British Columbia, etc. I'm sure it is done in other parts
> > of the world (earth) too.
> >
> > Finally, the Hemp Plant is the answer to the paper problem. But the
> > rightwingers are afraid that some kids might smoke some - and go crazy
> > and have to be put on Ritalin. The Hearst Corporation (newsprint) is
> > always putting out scare stories on marijuana (maryjane) & twisting it
> > wit hemp as being some sort of devils weed, and such nonsense. Such is
> > the life and times in 21st century America.
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
>
> I think that this is quite a good analysis of the problem. As far as US
> goes. The terrible thing is that deforresting is going on world wide and
> in a scale that's horyfying. South America (the Amazon Basin) All the
> islands like Sumatra, Jawa and the others are deforeted in a terrible
> speed without any atempt to replant. The different kind of animals
> dependent on the rainforrest, from Orangutang and down the scale of
> developement, like birds, lizzards and all the insects soon have nowhere
> to hide. Many of those living things are not even discovered yet, and we
> will never konow what we are missing. Many of the plants are maybe
> hiding substances good for making medecine for humans. Nature has
> usually already the solution to most problems, It has been around much
> longer than the humans, but we will never know as they will be extinct,
> due to greedy forresters before we can find them.
>
===
My family lived for a year and few months in the Amazon. A childhood
friend of the wife & i (not us!) became "religious" and became a
missionary for some religious church group. We were asked to "come on
down" and build a school, a few houses, plumbing work, solar & wind
generators
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Claes Persson wrote:
> Se bottom.
>
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:43 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> > see the below part.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > >
> > >
> > > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > >
> > > >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > What gets me is all the US government warnings about the terrorists who
> > are about to strike! Now, come on already, these terrorist "sleeper"
> > cells must have actually 'fallen asleep' -- where are they? If all
> > these "arab loonies" (nothing personal) are in the US at the present
> > moment - what are they waiting for?
> >
> > The government is a bag of hot air (bush and clinton included) and i
> > think the taxpayer is being taken for a ride on this one. The innocents
> >
> > who lost their life, on 9-11, didn't deserve to die.
> >
> > Where was the fighter-interceptor squadron at the nearby military base?
> >
> > (the name of the base eludes me at the moment) The military base
> > website has been altered - shortly after 9-11 - why? i don't know. My
> > understanding is that the surveillance officers were told to "stand
> > down" and "do nothing". The radar data of the airliners is not
> > available for that time period (has been locked away) for National
> > Security Reasons.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > >
> > > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
> > > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> > > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> > > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> > > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now... Where are those giant wings
> > >
> > > and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes wingspan is many times bigger
> > > than the hole in the wall. Any one have an answere?
> > >
> > >
> >
> > ===
> >
> > I believe, the wings on these aircraft, are designed to "break off" on
> > impact (the building in this case).
> >
> > The engines and wings (full of fuel) slammed into the building at a
> > couple hundred miles per hour - and burned for a couple days!
> >
> > Why so little damage to that part of the Pentagon? Here's why!
> >
> > >>>That portion of the Pentagon structure had been "reinforced" with a
> > >>>"Kevlar-type" of building material.<<< Something like a bulletproof
> > >>>jacket etc. This is why their was so little damage to the outer facade
> > >>>of the building.
> >
> > >>>The windows were two-inch-thick bulletproof-bombproof special composite
> > >>>material (still top-secret) and cost $10,000 a window pane.<<<
> >
> > Had the airliner hit "any other" portion of the Pentagon - and it would
> > have been a colossal catastrophe. The "refurbishing" (facelift) of the
> > Pentagon is an ongoing, 20-year project. The cost "estimate" is 2
> > Billion Dollars.
> >
> > On top of that, the Pentagon was built on top of an old swamp! So, the
> > building, is slowly sinking... the sump pumps are running constantly -
> > sucking out the water from the bowels of the building.
> >
> > That part of the building had been reinforced with a "Kevlar" type of
> > material. I'm trying to relate it to you, in the simplest of terms. My
> >
> > american englis
Re: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
This diatribe says it all about the caliber of the man who has no ideas of
his own but post spittle laden diatribes with no proof . If this continues I
will post the proof that he is a liar . He has lied to this list about his
qualifications ,his war record, and his education I respectfully suggest
that he be blocked as he has been by all on the other list Jim
- Original Message -
From: "rod/christine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 11:20 AM
Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> Al Winslow wrote:
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > >
> > >
> > > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > >
> > > >
http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.co
m/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> > >
> > > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner
that's
> > > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> > > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> > > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> > > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
> > >
> > > Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> > > wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have
an
> > >
> > > answere?
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---
> >
> > I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
> > tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
> > that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
> > and/or common sense.
> >
> > I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
> > plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
> > cell phones to loved ones.
> >
> > There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
> > Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was watched
> > as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
> > streets and roads.
> >
> > The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
> > already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
> >
> > September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
> > considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
> > television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
> > plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
> >
> > It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
> > divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
> > I'm not a psychiatrist.
>
> ===
>
> You dumb shit - the article had nothing to do with conspiracy stuff.
> You've been reading too much James Gale bullshit about me.
>
> I'm just waiting for the answers from the government - and the
> government hasn't been forthcoming!
>
> Whoever planned the attacks deserves to die!
>
> On the Politics list - (your buddy) James Gale (creep) advocates
> mutilating girls (deflowering) and then raping them. He also solicits
> for some sort of wife-swapping (adultery) crap. This is a public forum
> and read by grade school children and junior high/high school children.
> I would have posted some of his insanity on this listserv - but the
> {W&P} do not allow it.
>
> I'm not a leftwing or rightwing nut.
>
> My youngest daughter, subscribed to that listserv back in December of
> 1999, when it was just beginning. It was some sort of class project for
> their homeschool class. James Gale was talking about some sort of
> deviant talk of a sexual nature on a regular basis.
>
> He can put that disgusting stuff on his office wall for everyone to see.
&
Re: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Unfortunately Claes is subject to only the reports he can get from foreign
news organizations which. have their own agenda not always favorable to the
USA. We have many friends but also many enemies who try their best to
portray America in an unfavorable light. If he lived here and knew us
personally instead of being in an insular environment he might be getting
more accurate information Jim .
- Original Message -
From: "Al Winslow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 7:31 PM
Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:06 PM
> > Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > > > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > > >
> > > > >
http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.co
m/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > > > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> > > >
> > > > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner
that's
> > > > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without
wings
> > > > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a
big
> > > > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the
hole
> > > > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
> > > >
> > > > Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> > > > wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one
have an
> > > >
> > > > answere?
> > > >
> > > > Claes
> > > > §( :8-)
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > ---
> > >
> > > I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
> > > tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
> > > that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
> > > and/or common sense.
> > >
> > > I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
> > > plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
> > > cell phones to loved ones.
> > >
> > > There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
> > > Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was
watched
> > > as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
> > > streets and roads.
> > >
> > > The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
> > > already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
> > >
> > > September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
> > > considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
> > > television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
> > > plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
> > >
> > > It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
> > > divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
> > > I'm not a psychiatrist.
> > >
> >
> > I don't know either, but I have not seen anything on any photo that
> > indicates that any rubble or rests of those big engines or wings is
> > present there. Don't you wonder why? No disrespect for the victims is
> > intended, beleive me, but still.
> >
> >
> >
> --
>
> Catastrophic aircraft impacts produce some odd looking results
> sometimes. What is the point of all this? Do you doubt that a pla
Re: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Welcome to the club. He has alienated a whole other list as he is well on
his way to doing here! He is a liar and a bitter person Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Al Winslow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 7:23 PM
Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> rod/christine wrote:
>
>
> > You dumb shit - the article had nothing to do wi
>
>
>
>
>
> Well, at least you took the time to write something of your own instead
> of your usual habit of copy-and-paste of tendentious or outright crazy
> articles which I almost never read any more, having discoverd earlier
> that they are generally a waste of time.
>
> I'll let the personal stuff slide because, I'm happy to say, I don't
> know you and will never meet you -- so your opinions of me are of zero
> consequence in my life.
>
> I think I'll just skip all your posts from now on. Have a good life.
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
>
>
___
Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
A93MR48T18
==^
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 4:38 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
>
>
> Rod wrote answering Al:
> > ===
> >
> > Sheez, should they come to your state and chop down EVERY tree? Better
> > forest management would be to let the forest burn when it is nature
> > doing it (lightning).
> >
> > The "weekend" camper (female no less!) who started the Sequoia one in
> > California was a nutjob for even playing with a lighter or matches!
> > What the hell was she thinking? Must have been a public school
> > education, huh? - you think so?
> >
> > So much of the western part of USA is owned by the gov't (public lands)
> > and managed quite poorly over the years. I don't think it can be blamed
> >
> > on the "leftists" (whatever that means). We are near the Little
> > Missouri National Grasslands - and it is "fairly well" managed, but
> > always is back-and-forth - depending on whether a Jimmy Carter (goofy)
> > or a Ronny Reagan (senile) is inhabitating the Executive Branch.
> >
> > Up here, it is the levels of the six main-stem dams, that hold the
> > waters of the upper parts (States) of the Missouri River that are bones
> > of contention. It all depends on the winter snow packs in Montana - the
> >
> > past couple years have been way below normal - bigtime! The lower parts
> >
> > (States) want the water for barge traffic (navigation) and the upper
> > parts (States) want it for irrigation and tourism. They generate
> > electricity too! The rivers are losing all their native fish species -
> > they are "locked" into the areas between the dam sites.
> >
> > The Indian Tribes lost prime bottomlands (many, many beautiful trees
> > too) when the water began backing up. When the barges (1830's) first
> > began coming up the Missouri and needed firewood to power the barges -
> > the trees (forests) along the river were chopped down and never
> > replaced... so all the animals had no "cover" (nesting) and many species
> >
> > simply went extinct!
> >
> > My opinion is that chopping down entire forests is sheer stupidity.
> > Better management would be to maybe take 5-10 percent of the forest and
> > leave the rest intact. Another 10 years or so, and come an take a
> > different portion of the forest. It could be done without the gov't
> > always building roads at taxpayer expense!
> >
> > Helicopters are a cost-efficient way of selectively taking out trees -
> > one-by-one. This is taking place in parts of Idaho, Montana,
> > Washington, British Columbia, etc. I'm sure it is done in other parts
> > of the world (earth) too.
> >
> > Finally, the Hemp Plant is the answer to the paper problem. But the
> > rightwingers are afraid that some kids might smoke some - and go crazy
> > and have to be put on Ritalin. The Hearst Corporation (newsprint) is
> > always putting out scare stories on marijuana (maryjane) & twisting it
> > wit hemp as being some sort of devils weed, and such nonsense. Such is
> > the life and times in 21st century America.
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
>
> I think that this is quite a good analysis of the problem. As far as US
> goes. The terrible thing is that deforresting is going on world wide and
> in a scale that's horyfying. South America (the Amazon Basin) All the
> islands like Sumatra, Jawa and the others are deforeted in a terrible
> speed without any atempt to replant. The different kind of animals
> dependent on the rainforrest, from Orangutang and down the scale of
> developement, like birds, lizzards and all the insects soon have nowhere
> to hide. Many of those living things are not even discovered yet, and we
> will never konow what we are missing. Many of the plants are maybe
> hiding substances good for making medecine for humans. Nature has
> usually already the solution to most problems, It has been around much
> longer than the humans, but we will never know as they will be extinct,
> due to greedy forresters before we can find them.
>
> All this is done by deforresting, taking all and leave nothing to
> protect the ground out of greed, and as you say, Ron, it's stupid, but
> the mighty short time proffit rules. Your idea of taking 10% is old and
> was practised here in Sweeden for many years. But the proffit suffer.
> It
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Claes Persson wrote: > That do open up an other question. If the building really was a very > strong construction the majority of the plane should be left outside, > but nothing can be seen. I don't get it. > > Claes > > -- Again, if the plane had hit a part of the building that had not already had the new reinforcment it probably would have penetrated all the way through to the inner ring and beyond, killing many more people and doing much more damage. The strengthened internal barriers kept the damage confined to the three outer rings. The entire building was already scheduled to be reinforced. It was just the odd chance that the first part of the building to have the new construction was the part that was hit. It is not realistic to expect reinforcement of that kind to absolutely stop a plane that big going that fast at the first wall. The energy involved in that much mass traveling a few hundred miles an hour would possibly be stopped by 30 foot-thick reinforced concrete. The Petagon isn't reinforced to that extent. It is getting barriers built in to LIMIT penetration but not to stop 150 tons going 400 miles per hour dead in its path at the outer wall. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Peeping Tom Nation
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:18 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
>
>
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:22 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Peeping Tom Nation
> > >
> > >
> > > > Peeping Tom Nation
> > > >
> > > >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=fai&db=nac_fea&ref=21310&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > =
> > > >
> > >
> > > I agree, Rod. All in all there is a good chance that the every day life
> > > can be very comlicated if you are not all american looking.
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > --
> >
> > The people who sent the hijackers on 9/11 and the hijackers themselves
> > were not blue-eyed blonde Christians. It would be a waste of limited
> > policing resources to worry about white anglo-saxon protestants when the
> >
> > main threat comes from Middle Eastern Muslims.
> >
> > I'm not going to keep repeating the fact that the TIPS program has
> > othing to do with snooping in people's homes. One final time: It is
> > intended to utilze the fact that there are some jobs that have people
> > out and about, traveling the sreets and roads and in a unique position
> > to observe anomalies in public movements. If a postman sees, for
> > example, a bunch of Arabs loading 55-gallion barrels into a Ryder truck
> > he can report it to the TIPS hotline and someone can go check it out.
> > it's a commn sense use of extra pairs of eyes. It is not a secret police
> >
> > service using cable installers to look through papers in peoples' homes
> > or anything like that.
> >
>
> I hope you are right, Al, but I still remeber that some innocent people
> got into big trouble when they were attacked in the street just beacuse
> they were looking muslim. They had nothing to do with what had happened,
> and some are not all that friendly to foreighn looking persons to day.
> There will be no missusing. Are you sure?
>
-
Anything human beings do will include at least a little misuse. We still
have to press on and do the best we can to deal with problems. Middle
Eastern Muslim fanatics who are dedicated to killing people just because
they are Americans is a real, ongoing, widespread problem that we have
to cope with. If it's not a war in the classic sense of the word it is
still a major struggle that we must deal with. Free countries tend to be
a bit sloppy and do a lot of trial-and-error on the way toward
solutions.
___
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A93MR48T18
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 3:06 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > >
> > >
> > > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > > >
> > > >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> > > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> > >
> > > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
> > > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> > > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> > > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> > > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
> > >
> > > Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> > > wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have an
> > >
> > > answere?
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > ---
> >
> > I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
> > tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
> > that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
> > and/or common sense.
> >
> > I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
> > plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
> > cell phones to loved ones.
> >
> > There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
> > Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was watched
> > as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
> > streets and roads.
> >
> > The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
> > already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
> >
> > September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
> > considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
> > television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
> > plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
> >
> > It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
> > divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
> > I'm not a psychiatrist.
> >
>
> I don't know either, but I have not seen anything on any photo that
> indicates that any rubble or rests of those big engines or wings is
> present there. Don't you wonder why? No disrespect for the victims is
> intended, beleive me, but still.
>
>
>
--
Catastrophic aircraft impacts produce some odd looking results
sometimes. What is the point of all this? Do you doubt that a plane hit
the Pentagon? In the face of numerous witnesses who rushed to the scene
to help when they saw the plane swoop in and hit the building, what is
the point of the question?
If the building had not had the refurbishing and reinforcement in the
section that was struck the damage would probably have extended through
the inner ring and possibly to the other side of the building.
___
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A93MR48T18
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RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
rod/christine wrote: > You dumb shit - the article had nothing to do wi Well, at least you took the time to write something of your own instead of your usual habit of copy-and-paste of tendentious or outright crazy articles which I almost never read any more, having discoverd earlier that they are generally a waste of time. I'll let the personal stuff slide because, I'm happy to say, I don't know you and will never meet you -- so your opinions of me are of zero consequence in my life. I think I'll just skip all your posts from now on. Have a good life. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Here's the text of the Skelton piece...
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > The Pledge of Allegiance. > > The following words were spoken by the late Red Skelton on his > television program as he related the story of his teacher, Mr. Laswell, > who felt his students had come to think of the Pledge of Allegiance > as merely something to recite in class each day. Keep these words > in mind this Independence Day as you see our flag proudly wave, > and place your hand to your heart to recite the following: > > I -- me, an individual, a committee of one. > > Pledge -- dedicate all my worldly goods to give without self pity. > > Allegiance -- my love and devotion. > > To the flag -- our standard, Old Glory, a symbol of freedom. Where > she waves, there is respect because your loyalty has given her > a dignity that shouts freedom is everybody's job. > > Of the United -- that means we have all come together. > > States -- individual communities that have united into 50 great states. > Fifty individual communities with pride and dignity and purpose, all > divided with imaginary boundaries, yet united to common purpose, > and that's for love of country. > > (of America) > > And to the Republic -- republic is a state in which sovereign power is > invested in representatives chosen by the people to govern. And > government is the people and it's from the people to the leaders, > not from the leaders to the people. > > For which it stands, one nation under God -- The nation, meaning > "so blessed by God" > > Indivisible -- incapable of being divided. > > With liberty -- which is freedom and the right of power to live one's > own life without threats or fears of some sort of retaliation. > > And Justice -- the principle or quality of dealing fairly with others. > > For all -- which means, ladies and gentlemen, it's as much your > country as it is mine. > > Celebrate America! > > Happy Birthday! > > God Bless America! === Hi Lawana (been a while). Pledging "allegiance" to a flag is a little too much _Idolatry_ for my way of thinking. The pressure tactic begins in 1st grade and the insinuation is that Obedience To The State is of paramount importance. The Melting Pot theory (coercion) simply isn't true - visit an Indian Reservation for an eye-opening experience in this Land Of Plenty. Another side-job (duty-honor) in the Army was taking part in 21-gun salutes (AR-15)-(M-16) in a National Cemetery Of The Pacific - nicknamed The Punchbowl - on Oahu, Hawaii. I was one of seven soldiers, who did the actual firing of the rifles, blanks (dummy rounds) of course, as the nat'l cemetery was surrounded by the city of Honolulu. This was one of the defining moments for me as a human - and how i view the whole spectrum of life. I stood on the hill and watched the flag being folded, and presented to the widow-widower, next of kin whatever, & figured out right then - that there had to be a better way of resolving national differences between nations (alliances). Good grief - killing 2 Million Vietnamese for what? Agent Orange is still creating birth defects in babies & landmines are killing or maiming children every day - 27 years after the "war" ended. When will we ever learn that the flag is idolatry personified? Maybe killing Iraqi children by bombing the water infrastructure during the 1991 "war" isn't enough to hoist up the flag. 50,000 children die every month in Iraq - directly related to not having clean water to drink. You know - Saddam and George Bush Sr. were business partners way back when - in the oil business. For real! Saddam owns the baggage handling system at O'Hare airport - Chicago, Illinois. For real! (check it out) My country - right or wrong. Yeah, okay. The love it or leave it mantra is a load of hooey. --- I'm a Jackie Gleason fan. His outlook on life was more to my way of thinking. His real-life interviews show an honest perspective on his reflections of what "life" - is all about. ps- yeah, the computer gizmo you will be receiving (buying?) should help out quite nicely, good luck! (happy face inserted) Rod . ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:30 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
>
>
> > Rome debates mystery of dead fish in Tiber River
> >
> > http://enn.com/news/wire-stories/2002/07/07262002/s_47959.asp
> >
> > =
> >
>
> Too many people will destroy the enviroment also for the humans in the
> long run and on the way result in more or less surprizing happenings.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
===
No doubt. The one "humorous" part of the article was that - the eels
were even jumping onto the riverbanks edge! It's got to be
really-really! _NASTY_WATER_ for the eels to leave the confines of river
life.
All roads lead to Rome. (sad face inserted)
Rod
.
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RE: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
Al Winslow wrote:
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:22 AM
> > Subject: {W&P} Peeping Tom Nation
> >
> >
> > > Peeping Tom Nation
> > >
> > >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=fai&db=nac_fea&ref=21310&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > =
> > >
> >
> > I agree, Rod. All in all there is a good chance that the every day life
> > can be very comlicated if you are not all american looking.
> >
> > Claes
> > §( :8-)
> >
> >
> >
> --
>
> The people who sent the hijackers on 9/11 and the hijackers themselves
> were not blue-eyed blonde Christians. It would be a waste of limited
> policing resources to worry about white anglo-saxon protestants when the
>
> main threat comes from Middle Eastern Muslims.
>
> I'm not going to keep repeating the fact that the TIPS program has
> othing to do with snooping in people's homes. One final time: It is
> intended to utilze the fact that there are some jobs that have people
> out and about, traveling the sreets and roads and in a unique position
> to observe anomalies in public movements. If a postman sees, for
> example, a bunch of Arabs loading 55-gallion barrels into a Ryder truck
> he can report it to the TIPS hotline and someone can go check it out.
> it's a commn sense use of extra pairs of eyes. It is not a secret police
>
> service using cable installers to look through papers in peoples' homes
> or anything like that.
===
This article has little to do with TIPS.
Here's a "tip" for you.. STOP repeating yourself (happy face inserted).
___
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RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Al Winslow wrote:
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> > Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> >
> >
> > > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> > >
> > >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> > The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> > more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
> >
> > Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
> > supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> > and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> > airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> > at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
> >
> > Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> > wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have an
> >
> > answere?
> >
> > Claes
> > §( :8-)
> >
> >
> >
> ---
>
> I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
> tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
> that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
> and/or common sense.
>
> I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
> plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
> cell phones to loved ones.
>
> There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
> Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was watched
> as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
> streets and roads.
>
> The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
> already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
>
> September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
> considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
> television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
> plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
>
> It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
> divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
> I'm not a psychiatrist.
===
You dumb shit - the article had nothing to do with conspiracy stuff.
You've been reading too much James Gale bullshit about me.
I'm just waiting for the answers from the government - and the
government hasn't been forthcoming!
Whoever planned the attacks deserves to die!
On the Politics list - (your buddy) James Gale (creep) advocates
mutilating girls (deflowering) and then raping them. He also solicits
for some sort of wife-swapping (adultery) crap. This is a public forum
and read by grade school children and junior high/high school children.
I would have posted some of his insanity on this listserv - but the
{W&P} do not allow it.
I'm not a leftwing or rightwing nut.
My youngest daughter, subscribed to that listserv back in December of
1999, when it was just beginning. It was some sort of class project for
their homeschool class. James Gale was talking about some sort of
deviant talk of a sexual nature on a regular basis.
He can put that disgusting stuff on his office wall for everyone to see.
There are three kinky-sex talkers on that list - Sylvia, Brenda & James
Gale. Sylvia & Brenda are some sort of "Jesus saves" types.
Sorry - I'm searching for The Truth about 9-11. The US gov't isn't
coming clean. What is a "Free Society" if the gov't stamps "top secret"
on everything.
Both sides of my family are top-heavy with Freemasons. I know where
most of their skeletons are buried.
If you have the need to carry guns everywhere you go - then go for it!
I've some friends who live in that (2nd amendment) world of conspiracy.
Just remember this, my friend, just because some sex fiend calls me a
liar - doesn't make it true. He's some over-the-hill old fart who
played tennis until he was 37-years of age. Now, he is a flaming kook
on a politics list who for two or three posts (talks good) - and then
loses interest. He then reverts into name-calling everyone on that list
- and i mean everyone.
The Politics List died out after the 2000 election. It has 670+
subscribers - but most probably never cancelled their subscription or
just read at the Topica site and amuse themselves with our little rants.
Finally, conspiracy aside...in the aftermath of 9-11 - wouldn't you
think that this list is being monitored by a gov't spook? I do! (the
Army & 34 days in Vietnam - taught me well)
Rod
___
Check out
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
Al Winslow wrote:
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 1:48 AM
> > Subject: Re: SV: SV: {W&P} SV: Common Sense
> >
> >
> > > In a message dated 7/26/02 2:37:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> > >
> > > << Some times in the very top of the very respected and wealthy part of
> > > humanity as they and their corporations thrive on oil, wood, coal and
> > > likes.
> > > Commodities that can not be returned and therefore has a limitied time
> > > in
> > > use. >>
> > >
> > > =
> > Lawana:
> >
> > > I won't argue about oil or coal -- but wood is a renewable resource and
> > > it's
> > > sheer stupidity to have to sit and watch thousands upon thousands of
> > > acres go
> > > up in smoke just so some elitist ecologists can have a pretty place to
> > > visit.
> > >
> >
> > --Wood is renewable - if it's planted with new trees, yes. The problem
> > is that vast forrests are cut down in many parts of the world and the
> > ground is left bare. Those pirates should be draged screeming into the
> > school of ecology and then made to plant new trees with their own bare
> > hands.
> >
> > I don't think that the ecologists want forrests to be spared just for
> > themselves but for all of us. And the connection to going up in smoke
> > eludes me. No forrest fires can happen on a stripped land. Is that the
> > solution? For whom?
> >
> > Claes
> > §( :8-)
> >
> -
>
> Environmental extremists go to court to block the Forest Service from
> stripping dead trees and undergrowth out of the forests, or allowing
> lumber companies to do it. Because all those dead trees and brush remain
>
> year after year there is an enormous amount of fuel to feed fires.
>
> In the natural condition of forests, when human beings don't interfere
> fires are started by lightening and burn off the undergrowth from time
> to time. Living trees which are full of sap and water are not consumed
> in these relatively small fires.
>
> When humans interrupt that natural cycle, stopping those small fires
> year after year and allowing the fuel to build up then the fires, when
> they finally get started during dry times, are so well fuelled and so
> extremely hot they conume EVEYTHING -- large living trees included. Then
>
> the land is left truly denuded.
>
> The environmentalists, in their zealous blind hatred of lumbering
> companies are doing more harm than good. They are motivated by leftist
> ideology, not by a true love of nature.
===
Sheez, should they come to your state and chop down EVERY tree? Better
forest management would be to let the forest burn when it is nature
doing it (lightning).
The "weekend" camper (female no less!) who started the Sequoia one in
California was a nutjob for even playing with a lighter or matches!
What the hell was she thinking? Must have been a public school
education, huh? - you think so?
So much of the western part of USA is owned by the gov't (public lands)
and managed quite poorly over the years. I don't think it can be blamed
on the "leftists" (whatever that means). We are near the Little
Missouri National Grasslands - and it is "fairly well" managed, but
always is back-and-forth - depending on whether a Jimmy Carter (goofy)
or a Ronny Reagan (senile) is inhabitating the Executive Branch.
Up here, it is the levels of the six main-stem dams, that hold the
waters of the upper parts (States) of the Missouri River that are bones
of contention. It all depends on the winter snow packs in Montana - the
past couple years have been way below normal - bigtime! The lower parts
(States) want the water for barge traffic (navigation) and the upper
parts (States) want it for irrigation and tourism. They generate
electricity too! The rivers are losing all their native fish species -
they are "locked" into the areas between the dam sites.
The Indian Tribes lost prime bottomlands (many, many beautiful trees
too) when the water began backing up. When the barges (1830's) first
began coming up the Missouri and needed firewood to power the barges -
the trees (forests) along the river were chopped down and never
replaced... so all the animals had no "cover" (nesting) and many species
simply went extinct!
My opinion is that chopping down entire forests is sheer stupidity.
Better management would be to maybe take 5-10 percent of the forest and
leave the rest intact. Another 10 years or so, and come an take a
different portion of the forest. It could be done without the gov't
always building roads at taxpayer expense!
Helicopters are a cost-efficient way of selectively taking out trees -
one-by-one. This is taking place in parts of Idaho, Montana,
Washington, British Columbia, etc. I'm sure it is done in other parts
of the world (earth) too.
Finally, the Hemp Plant is t
RE: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:22 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Peeping Tom Nation
>
>
> > Peeping Tom Nation
> >
> >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=fai&db=nac_fea&ref=21310&back=http://www.newcity.com
> >
> >
> > =
> >
>
> I agree, Rod. All in all there is a good chance that the every day life
> can be very comlicated if you are not all american looking.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
===
Yes sir. Everyone is turned into a snitch - obey the government
dictates...or else! Suspicious activity could be a group of women
conspiring to buy a box of breakfast cereal. Secret courts - secret
detention facilities - secret trials. This is the stuff that America is
slowly (rapidly?) becoming.
Maybe that asteroid (2019) will come early - and put us out of our
misery!!! (happy face inserted) OR (sad face inserted) - depending on
your party affiliation. Pro-gestapo or freedom-loving.
The two-party system is a dead end. No difference between the two -
when it comes to spending the taxpayer money for doom-and-gloom
projects.
Oh well, life's a bitch...and she's back in heat.
Rod
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RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
see the below part.
===
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> >
> >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
===
What gets me is all the US government warnings about the terrorists who
are about to strike! Now, come on already, these terrorist "sleeper"
cells must have actually 'fallen asleep' -- where are they? If all
these "arab loonies" (nothing personal) are in the US at the present
moment - what are they waiting for?
The government is a bag of hot air (bush and clinton included) and i
think the taxpayer is being taken for a ride on this one. The innocents
who lost their life, on 9-11, didn't deserve to die.
Where was the fighter-interceptor squadron at the nearby military base?
(the name of the base eludes me at the moment) The military base
website has been altered - shortly after 9-11 - why? i don't know. My
understanding is that the surveillance officers were told to "stand
down" and "do nothing". The radar data of the airliners is not
available for that time period (has been locked away) for National
Security Reasons.
===
>
> Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
> supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> at first was just a hole in the wall. Now... Where are those giant wings
> and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes wingspan is many times bigger
> than the hole in the wall. Any one have an answere?
>
>
===
I believe, the wings on these aircraft, are designed to "break off" on
impact (the building in this case).
The engines and wings (full of fuel) slammed into the building at a
couple hundred miles per hour - and burned for a couple days!
Why so little damage to that part of the Pentagon? Here's why!
>>>That portion of the Pentagon structure had been "reinforced" with a
>>>"Kevlar-type" of building material.<<< Something like a bulletproof
>>>jacket etc. This is why their was so little damage to the outer facade
>>>of the building.
>>>The windows were two-inch-thick bulletproof-bombproof special composite
>>>material (still top-secret) and cost $10,000 a window pane.<<<
Had the airliner hit "any other" portion of the Pentagon - and it would
have been a colossal catastrophe. The "refurbishing" (facelift) of the
Pentagon is an ongoing, 20-year project. The cost "estimate" is 2
Billion Dollars.
On top of that, the Pentagon was built on top of an old swamp! So, the
building, is slowly sinking... the sump pumps are running constantly -
sucking out the water from the bowels of the building.
That part of the building had been reinforced with a "Kevlar" type of
material. I'm trying to relate it to you, in the simplest of terms. My
american english is quite shabby the way it is!
The Pentagon restoration is due, in part, to the Marine Barracks being
blownup in Beirut - the Khobar Towers in Saudi Arabia - the (first)
World Trade Center incident in the early 90's - and other bombing
incidents at various locations throughout the world.
Rod
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RE: {W&P} SV: Peeping Tom Nation
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:22 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Peeping Tom Nation
>
>
> > Peeping Tom Nation
> >
> >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=fai&db=nac_fea&ref=21310&back=http://www.newcity.com
> >
> >
> > =
> >
>
> I agree, Rod. All in all there is a good chance that the every day life
> can be very comlicated if you are not all american looking.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
>
>
--
The people who sent the hijackers on 9/11 and the hijackers themselves
were not blue-eyed blonde Christians. It would be a waste of limited
policing resources to worry about white anglo-saxon protestants when the
main threat comes from Middle Eastern Muslims.
I'm not going to keep repeating the fact that the TIPS program has
othing to do with snooping in people's homes. One final time: It is
intended to utilze the fact that there are some jobs that have people
out and about, traveling the sreets and roads and in a unique position
to observe anomalies in public movements. If a postman sees, for
example, a bunch of Arabs loading 55-gallion barrels into a Ryder truck
he can report it to the TIPS hotline and someone can go check it out.
it's a commn sense use of extra pairs of eyes. It is not a secret police
service using cable installers to look through papers in peoples' homes
or anything like that.
___
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A93MR48T18
==^
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RE: {W&P} SV: Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> >
> >
>http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.com/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
> The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come
> more or less founded theories to what really have happend.
>
> Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
> supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings
> and engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big
> airliner to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole
> at first was just a hole in the wall. Now...
>
> Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
> wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have an
> answere?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
>
>
---
I don't always waste my time reading the links Rod sends becaus they
tend, all too often, to be wacko conspiratorial stuff or from groups
that start out with a prejudiced attitude toward government, business
and/or common sense.
I can tell you that there wre many, many witnesses to the crash of the
plane into the Pentagon. There were people on that flight who were on
cell phones to loved ones.
There's no reason to doubt that a specific, known airliner struck the
Pentagon. It was loaded with specific, known indviduals and was watched
as it flew into the building by many people who were on the nearby
streets and roads.
The aircraft hit at ground level, skidding into the building. It was
already breaking into smaller pieces as it impacted the building.
September 11, 2001 was a day of serious events. It deserves to be
considered seriously by serious people. We all had a very clear
television view of what happened in New york that day. We also have
plenty of information about the plane that crashed in Pennsylvania.
It escapes me why conspiracy buffs would invent fanciful theories that
divorce the Pentagon attck from the other events of theday. But then,
I'm not a psychiatrist.
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Common Sense
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 1:48 AM
> Subject: Re: SV: SV: {W&P} SV: Common Sense
>
>
> > In a message dated 7/26/02 2:37:35 PM Pacific Daylight Time,
> > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
> >
> > << Some times in the very top of the very respected and wealthy part of
> > humanity as they and their corporations thrive on oil, wood, coal and
> > likes.
> > Commodities that can not be returned and therefore has a limitied time
> > in
> > use. >>
> >
> > =
> Lawana:
>
> > I won't argue about oil or coal -- but wood is a renewable resource and
> > it's
> > sheer stupidity to have to sit and watch thousands upon thousands of
> > acres go
> > up in smoke just so some elitist ecologists can have a pretty place to
> > visit.
> >
>
> --Wood is renewable - if it's planted with new trees, yes. The problem
> is that vast forrests are cut down in many parts of the world and the
> ground is left bare. Those pirates should be draged screeming into the
> school of ecology and then made to plant new trees with their own bare
> hands.
>
> I don't think that the ecologists want forrests to be spared just for
> themselves but for all of us. And the connection to going up in smoke
> eludes me. No forrest fires can happen on a stripped land. Is that the
> solution? For whom?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
-
Environmental extremists go to court to block the Forest Service from
stripping dead trees and undergrowth out of the forests, or allowing
lumber companies to do it. Because all those dead trees and brush remain
year after year there is an enormous amount of fuel to feed fires.
In the natural condition of forests, when human beings don't interfere
fires are started by lightening and burn off the undergrowth from time
to time. Living trees which are full of sap and water are not consumed
in these relatively small fires.
When humans interrupt that natural cycle, stopping those small fires
year after year and allowing the fuel to build up then the fires, when
they finally get started during dry times, are so well fuelled and so
extremely hot they conume EVEYTHING -- large living trees included. Then
the land is left truly denuded.
The environmentalists, in their zealous blind hatred of lumbering
companies are doing more harm than good. They are motivated by leftist
ideology, not by a true love of nature.
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Re: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
The wings while very strong have little longitudinal strength therefore they
can and often are stripped from the airplane on impact taking the engines
with them. This is what happened at the Pentagon. We have enough half baked
theories running around with out another fairy tale. Why would anybody
change their technique Films plainly show an aircraft impacting the WTC why
would the terrorist or anyone else do something different in Washington? The
aircraft were hijacked ,Legitimate passengers lost their lives!What is the
point of this except a confirmed liar posts junk and all the Pavlov's dogs
out there think they are doing something intellectual and reply salivating
over the vast and myriad conspiracies out there which were they in existence
they could do nothing about anyway Jim
- Original Message -
From: "Claes Persson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 7:14 AM
Subject: SV: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Saturday, July 27, 2002 5:17 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
>
>
> > Even conservatives smell a rat in the White House
> >
> >
http://cgi.newcity.com/exitlog/frameset.php?close=http://www.newmassmedia.co
m/nac.phtml?code=har&db=nac_fea&ref=21338&back=http://www.newcity.com
> >
> >
> >
>
> The starting to wonder over facts can be expected. There always come more
or less founded theories to what really have happend.
>
> Something I can not get passed is the fact that the bid airliner that's
supposed to have hit Pentagon seems to have been flying without wings and
engines. The hole after this aeroplane is far too small for a big airliner
to have dissppeared insid compleatelly. Specially as the hole at first was
just a hole in the wall. Now...
>
> Where are those giant wings and the enormous engines? The aeroplanes
wingspan is many times bigger than the hole in the wall. Any one have an
answere?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
> ___
> Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join.
>
>
> A93MR48T18
>
>
>
>
___
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 25, 2002 8:34 AM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
>
>
> >
> >
> > Al Winslow wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > > - Original Message -
> > > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:01 AM
> > > > Subject: {W&P} The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> > > > >
> > > > > http://reason.com/links/links071602.shtml
> > > > >
> > > > > =
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > > The idea of TIPS is recalling storys from other times in other and more
> > > > suspect countrys. There is always some excuse for a construction like
> > > > this and this time there might be a good resan for it, but seen from
> > > > Northern Europe this gives a bad taste in the mouth anyway. Too close to
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > Stasi, KGB and likes.
> > > >
> > > > Claes
> > > > §( :8-)
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > > I don't like it myself. The US Postal Service has refused to
> > > participate. Many Americans are very protective of our independence. We
> > > are not a docile nation of sheep to be led into things that don't smell
> > > right to us.
> >
> > ===
> >
> > The Postal Service has done an "about-face" - and is reconsidering the
> > whole thing. Appropriations & Markup time on Capitol Hill will sway the
> >
> > Postman to deliver over the hapless, american citizen... the Stasi is
> > around the bend. It's coming... sooner, rather than later - more,
> > rather than less.
> >
> >
> > Rod
> >
> --What I find curious is that the President can launch a proposal like
> this. He must understand that many people can make the connection of
> this sceem to what really was going on in the eastern Europe, or is he
> counting on that many enough are too ignorant of history? Or does he
> really just mean well and is too naive to make the connection himself?
>
> Claes
>
--
Hysterical press reports made it sound, at first blush, like something
that it is not. It doesn't amount to anything more than providing a
number to which people whose jobs have them moving around can give
reports of the kind that any responsible citizen would give even without
a special 800 [toll-free] number to call. Upon learning a bit more about
it, I pronounce it acceptable. It won't help much, probably. But it
isn't sinister. It doesn't give the postman secret police powers. There
are plenty of REAL problems to worry about. The TIPS program isn't one
of them.
___
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RE: {W&P} SV: The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
rod/christine wrote:
>
>
> Al Winslow wrote:
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:01 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> > >
> > >
> > > > The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> > > >
> > > > http://reason.com/links/links071602.shtml
> > > >
> > > > =
> > > >
> > >
> > > The idea of TIPS is recalling storys from other times in other and more
> > > suspect countrys. There is always some excuse for a construction like
> > > this and this time there might be a good resan for it, but seen from
> > > Northern Europe this gives a bad taste in the mouth anyway. Too close to
> > >
> > >
> > > Stasi, KGB and likes.
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> > >
> >
> >
> > I don't like it myself. The US Postal Service has refused to
> > participate. Many Americans are very protective of our independence. We
> > are not a docile nation of sheep to be led into things that don't smell
> > right to us.
>
> ===
>
> The Postal Service has done an "about-face" - and is reconsidering the
> whole thing. Appropriations & Markup time on Capitol Hill will sway the
>
> Postman to deliver over the hapless, american citizen... the Stasi is
> around the bend. It's coming... sooner, rather than later - more,
> rather than less.
>
>
> Rod
>
--
As more details about the TIPS program become known, it seems less
sinister. In fact, it amounts to nothing more than an 800 telephone line
to which workers who travel about can phone in reports of suspicious
activity. The normal 911 local emergency number isn't prepared to handle
such reports, being dedicated to dealing with immediate emergencies. In
other words, it isn't anything that people wouldn't do on their own. If
I were a mail-carrier and I saw a group of Arabs photographing an oil
refinery I'd report it. The TIPS program merely provides a number to use
that won't glog up the emergency line, and will route the information to
someone who is more likely to make good use of it. I know it's kinda
thrilly-dilly to find deep government conspiracies to yell about, but
this one, upon further understanding, appears to be quite benign. You
can relax. The cable TV installer isn't going to bug your VCR.
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RE: {W&P} 2019
Claes Persson wrote: > The ateroid is comning: > > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/breakfast/2148190.stm === 2019 is a ways off and maybe it will hit Red China instead - reduce the population of the Commie Horde. It would be wonderful to check out the Tunguska site, in Russia. Rod . ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
Al Winslow wrote:
>
>
> Claes Persson wrote:
> > - Original Message -
> > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Sent: Saturday, July 20, 2002 1:01 AM
> > Subject: {W&P} The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> >
> >
> > > The Republican Police State - An American Stasi
> > >
> > > http://reason.com/links/links071602.shtml
> > >
> > > =
> > >
> >
> > The idea of TIPS is recalling storys from other times in other and more
> > suspect countrys. There is always some excuse for a construction like
> > this and this time there might be a good resan for it, but seen from
> > Northern Europe this gives a bad taste in the mouth anyway. Too close to
> >
> > Stasi, KGB and likes.
> >
> > Claes
> > §( :8-)
> >
>
>
> I don't like it myself. The US Postal Service has refused to
> participate. Many Americans are very protective of our independence. We
> are not a docile nation of sheep to be led into things that don't smell
> right to us.
===
The Postal Service has done an "about-face" - and is reconsidering the
whole thing. Appropriations & Markup time on Capitol Hill will sway the
Postman to deliver over the hapless, american citizen... the Stasi is
around the bend. It's coming... sooner, rather than later - more,
rather than less.
Rod
.
___
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RE: {W&P} SV: Policeman punches little girl
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 5:50 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Policeman punches little girl
>
>
> >
> > Policeman punches little girl
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/2002249.stm
> >
> >
> >
>
> I don't think that it was the policemans intension to hit the child, but
> to launch a fist against a mother and child is idiotic anyway. If he's
> attaced by the woman swinging a bag he should grab the bag when it's
> coming in stead. I think.
>
> Claes
===
I'd have liked to seen the video of this incident - the stills don't
tell "the whole story" of this. We've searched for more on this family
- to lend moral support... but have come up empty.
The power of The State is absolute - no ifs, ands, or buts.
Rod & Christi
.
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RE: {W&P} SV: Common Sense
I not only double-posted my last message, I also wrote a garbled sentence when I said, "...There are large questions that science can't answer, much less answer." Of course, I meant to say that there are questions science doesn't ask, much less answer. The garbling was due to haste. The double posting I might blame on the fact that I'm working from a webtv terminal, which is a quirky machine. A useful one, however. I can watch the TV news or an auto race in one corner of the screen with picture-in-pictire while the rest of the screen displays this email form. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: Common Sense
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:10 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Common Sense
>
>
> In a message dated 7/22/2002 5:52:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>
> A theory like the theory of evolution don't require "faith in spite of
> what the common sence tells you". It's not claiming to be the final
> truth either. It's just what we have to accept as the logical answere
> until some more facts makes it reasonable to change the theory. To
> expect more than that is to expect utopia. And utopia is what most
> "wholy books" deals with under influence of a Gods will.
>
> =
> Well .
> I'm definitely into common sense over higher education...
> And when I look at the world, MY common sense tells me that all of this
> couldn't possibly be just an accident.
>
> I agree. It's not just an accident. My common sense tells me that it is
> the evolution in action and further more: it's still going on. And it
> never stops. We may think that we are the top of the ladder, but it's
> only so far.
>
> There's more to it -- I don't know for sure what it is -- but I know
> it's there. You can call it God or a General Electric Food Processor for
> all I care -- but it's not just a mere accident.
>
> Exactly, there is more coming as humans more and more act and behave as
> the cancer of this planet. Of course it's there. The best and most
> actual name is the DNA-molecule and all that the DNA has changed us and
> all other living things into is no accident, but no God has had anything
> to do with it. It's chemistry. Clever chemistry it may seem but under
> the law of try and error.
>
> If you look at the planet earth from the outside it's not difficult to
> see that one of the spiecis has gone wild with stripmining,
> deforresting, fast burning the resources and polluting the atmosphere,
> and thereby leaving the rest of the spiecis less and less space to live
> in. Like bacterias we are fast growing in numbers and are destoying our
> own enviroment and soon (in evolutionary terms) face famine. Is that
> also Gods will? Or can we hope for a divine interferrence (a God?) that
> neutralize humans irresponsible behavior? Should we hope for this and
> like stupid animals or bacteeria just utterly destoy our enviroment or
> can humans use their common sense and counteract the effects? The Kyoto
> agreement is a good atempt in that direction, but to few have
> understoood or want to understand the need. Some - most of us - strive
> for "the good life" that will not do any good for the enviroment, I'm
> afraid. I hope I'm worng.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
> --
Millions of species went extinct long before human beings were on the
scene. It doesn't matter. That's life. That's how it works. Unsuccessful
species disappear. Successful ones survive and prosper. The human is
successful. There's no room for herds of millions of buffalo _and_ great
cities and bustling civilization. Leaving the earth as a living zoo may
appeal to certain esthetic tastes, but it is a luxury we can't afford.
HUMAN BEINGS come first.
Modern, civilized countries are learning how to re-forest lands rather
than stripping the timber and leaving the bare earth to be eroded.
That's one example of the many ways that modern economies are learning
to live the good life while protecting the planet's ability to renew the
resources we need.
As to the question of God...
You seem to think that the "clever chemistry" simply arose out of
nothingness and started to work its magic on inert matter. That sounds
like God by another name. You still haven't dealt with the mystery that
Lawana and I have acknowledged. Where did the impetus for that evolution
to begin come from? There is a great area of knowledge that your
superficial science can't deal with.
How could mankind's subtle, complex intelligence arise from
unintelligent mud? How could a dumb, cold chemical reaction produce,
finally, Vivaldi's "Four Seasons?"
There are large questions that science can't answer, much less answer.
Those who take refuge in atheism are merely ignoring the mystery, not
solving it.
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RE: {W&P} SV: Common Sense
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Wednesday, July 24, 2002 12:10 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Common Sense
>
>
> In a message dated 7/22/2002 5:52:41 AM Pacific Standard Time,
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
>
>
>
> A theory like the theory of evolution don't require "faith in spite of
> what the common sence tells you". It's not claiming to be the final
> truth either. It's just what we have to accept as the logical answere
> until some more facts makes it reasonable to change the theory. To
> expect more than that is to expect utopia. And utopia is what most
> "wholy books" deals with under influence of a Gods will.
>
> =
> Well .
> I'm definitely into common sense over higher education...
> And when I look at the world, MY common sense tells me that all of this
> couldn't possibly be just an accident.
>
> I agree. It's not just an accident. My common sense tells me that it is
> the evolution in action and further more: it's still going on. And it
> never stops. We may think that we are the top of the ladder, but it's
> only so far.
>
> There's more to it -- I don't know for sure what it is -- but I know
> it's there. You can call it God or a General Electric Food Processor for
> all I care -- but it's not just a mere accident.
>
> Exactly, there is more coming as humans more and more act and behave as
> the cancer of this planet. Of course it's there. The best and most
> actual name is the DNA-molecule and all that the DNA has changed us and
> all other living things into is no accident, but no God has had anything
> to do with it. It's chemistry. Clever chemistry it may seem but under
> the law of try and error.
>
> If you look at the planet earth from the outside it's not difficult to
> see that one of the spiecis has gone wild with stripmining,
> deforresting, fast burning the resources and polluting the atmosphere,
> and thereby leaving the rest of the spiecis less and less space to live
> in. Like bacterias we are fast growing in numbers and are destoying our
> own enviroment and soon (in evolutionary terms) face famine. Is that
> also Gods will? Or can we hope for a divine interferrence (a God?) that
> neutralize humans irresponsible behavior? Should we hope for this and
> like stupid animals or bacteeria just utterly destoy our enviroment or
> can humans use their common sense and counteract the effects? The Kyoto
> agreement is a good atempt in that direction, but to few have
> understoood or want to understand the need. Some - most of us - strive
> for "the good life" that will not do any good for the enviroment, I'm
> afraid. I hope I'm worng.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
> --
Millions of species went extinct long before human beings were on the
scene. It doesn't matter. That's life. That's how it works. Unsuccessful
species disappear. Successful ones survive and prosper. The human is
successful. There's no room for herds of millions of buffalo _and_ great
cities and bustling civilization. Leaving the earth as a living zoo may
appeal to certain esthetic tastes, but it is a luxury we can't afford.
HUMAN BEINGS come first.
Modern, civilized countries are learning how to re-forest lands rather
than stripping the timber and leaving the bare earth to be eroded.
That's one example of the many ways that modern economies are learning
to live the good life while protecting the planet's ability to renew the
resources we need.
As to the question of God...
You seem to think that the "clever chemistry" simply arose out of
nothingness and started to work its magic on inert matter. That sounds
like God by another name. You still haven't dealt with the mystery that
Lawana and I have acknowledged. Where did the impetus for that evolution
to begin come from? There is a great area of knowledge that your
superficial science can't deal with.
How could mankind's subtle, complex intelligence arise from
unintelligent mud? How could a dumb, cold chemical reaction produce,
finally, Vivaldi's "Four Seasons?"
There are large questions that science can't answer, much less answer.
Those who take refuge in atheism are merely ignoring the mystery, not
solving it.
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Re: {W&P} Trouble
In a message dated 7/22/2002 5:53:21 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: This is what happened to you, Lawana? = Actually, it's just the start ... NEW COMPUTER: Gus (our friendly family computer repair genius) is buried under work and his assistant just took a few days off with no notice ... Heaven only knows when he'll be able to get out here to work on the beast. OLD COMPUTER: All my AOL files are stored on ZIP disks and in Word2002 files Neither my daughter's laptop or desktop computers have a ZIP drive We have both the WIN98 and WIN98, 2nd edition full version disks ... AOL 7.0 will NOT work on WIN95 WIN98 full version disks will NOT upgrade an existing operating system And installing a new system won't work because the WIN98 disks do NOT have all the files I need to run my NEC system ... A WIN98 upgrade disc is $90 I may/may not be able to buy an upgrade disk on the first -- but I know I can't buy it before then ... Soo. Up Creek ... NO PADDLE! I went almost 5 years with nary a problem with my 1st computer ... NOW it appears to be payback time, and I am Paying! Lawana ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Trouble
Claes, I read and post from the W&P Topica website. I'm not able to do anything with some of the formatted things you send. Here's what I get: Claes Persson wrote: > > --=_NextPart_001_0078_01C23191.31526EA0 > Content-Type: text/plain; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > This is what happened to you, Lawana? > > > > --=_NextPart_001_0078_01C23191.31526EA0 > Content-Type: text/html; > charset="iso-8859-1" > Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > > > > > > > > > This is what happened to you, > Lawana? > > > > > > > --=_NextPart_001_0078_01C23191.31526EA0-- > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: Skull Fossil Challenges Out-of-Africa Theory
james gale wrote: ...And BTW truth and facts do not always coincide ! :O) Jim That one could use a bit of explaining. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
rod/christine wrote: > > > Al Winslow wrote: > > > > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > > > > > Al Winslow wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The income tax is unconstitutional. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Th income tax is a bad idea, but it is not unconstitutional. > > > > > > > > The Constitution was AMENDED nearly 90 years ago specifically to allow > > > > the federal government to levy such a tax. > > > > > > > > It's the 16th Amendment. > > > > > > > > Once an amenedment becomes part of the Constitution, whatever it allows > > > > is constitutional. > > > > > > === > > > > > > In my opinion... it is unconstitutional. > > > > > > R > > > > > > > > > > > > I'd be interested in hearing how you arrive at the notion that something > > > > > > that is provided for in an amendment to the Constitution could be > > unconstitutional. You could have the opinion that you are the King of > > Prussia, but that wouldn't make it so. > > > > The income tax may be something that you really, really don't like. It > > may be a terrible idea. But, since the Sixteenth Amrendment to the US > > Constitution [ratified Feb. 25, 1913] says "The Congress shall have > > power to lay and collect taxes on income from whatever source > > derived..." there's hardly any way it can be "unconstitutional." > > > > That's not a mere piece of congressional legislation. It is a > > constitutional amednmemt, passed, approved and ratified by the amendment > > > > > > process contained within the Constitution. > > > > I think it's a bad idea, but unconstitutional it is not. > > > > I know there are wacko movements and book-writers who tell people they > > don't have to pay their income taxes because it is unconstitutional. > > Good luck in court if you take them seriously. Those ideas belong on the > > > > > > sme shelf with the UFO and Elvis-sighting books. > > > > In the meantime, get a copy of the US Constitution and READ it. It's > > available on the internet in several places. A quick Google search will > > provide you with enlightenment. Your congressman's office will probably > > send you a free copy of the Constitution upon request. > > > > AW > > === > > This isn't (going to be) easy to explain in the written word - > especially in one sitting, at the keypad... know what i'm saying? > > I completely agree with you that it is the "law of the land!" > > But! > > Just as the Pope is not my Father (of the spiritual realm). > > Neither is George Washington my Father (of this country). > > I do not recognize the authority of either entity as being able to > compel me to follow their dictates. > > I (Rod) was not born into this world - not of my making - to be a loyal > subject of Earthly Dominion. (territorial turf) For many people, you > wake up one day and figure out that something is rotten in denmark - > figure out that Buzz Aldrin (33rd degree Mason) never set foot on the > Moon. It was all filmed ahead of time, in a Howard Hughes-built movie > set at Groom Lake (area 51), Nevada. > > Just because the moonshots looked realistic - doesn't make it legal. > > Space Shuttles are 1960's technology - presently, they are grounded. > > Apollo 13 was filmed at Nevada site. > > It doesn't surprise me what J. Edgar Hoover (33rd degree Mason) did > illegally. A Congressman is introducing legislation that would remove > Hoover's name from all public buildings in the US. The FBI is under the > > jurisdiction of the Justice Department - that answers to no one. The > IRS - answers to no one. > > Representative from Ohio, James A. Traficant Jr. was charged & Convicted > > (state court) on 10 Felony counts & some misdemeanors (bribery type > stuff). > > The is the man who - brought Demjanyuk, who was acccused of being... > Ivan the Terrible - some prison guard from ww2 concentration camp in > germany. - place on trial in Israel for being the camp guard - found to > be the wrong man - and released to the care of Traficant at airport in > Israel and the two of flew back to US together. > > Traficant is the only American to beat a federal RICO rap! > > He is being targeted because of his exposure that the Democratic Party > accepted $$$ from the Government of ed China. A few nuke secrets about > the W-88 nuke bomb blueprints, etc. for campaign donations. Janet Reno > is a traitor. > > Call your Congressman (whoever may be reading this on this list from > America) and urge them to voted against any form of punishment. > > Well, this is my opening salvo on why the "income" tax is illegal. Look > > what is happening to Rep. Traficant all because he went against the IRS > in the 1980's and the "reforms" that he instituted with the help of Rep. > > Bill Archer-R, of Texas. > > The 16th is illegal in the way that it has been "interpreted." > > Look at the
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
Al Winslow wrote: > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > > Al Winslow wrote: > > > > > > > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > The income tax is unconstitutional. > > > > > > -- > > > > > > Th income tax is a bad idea, but it is not unconstitutional. > > > > > > The Constitution was AMENDED nearly 90 years ago specifically to allow > > > the federal government to levy such a tax. > > > > > > It's the 16th Amendment. > > > > > > Once an amenedment becomes part of the Constitution, whatever it allows > > > is constitutional. > > > > === > > > > In my opinion... it is unconstitutional. > > > > R > > > > > > > I'd be interested in hearing how you arrive at the notion that something > > that is provided for in an amendment to the Constitution could be > unconstitutional. You could have the opinion that you are the King of > Prussia, but that wouldn't make it so. > > The income tax may be something that you really, really don't like. It > may be a terrible idea. But, since the Sixteenth Amrendment to the US > Constitution [ratified Feb. 25, 1913] says "The Congress shall have > power to lay and collect taxes on income from whatever source > derived..." there's hardly any way it can be "unconstitutional." > > That's not a mere piece of congressional legislation. It is a > constitutional amednmemt, passed, approved and ratified by the amendment > > process contained within the Constitution. > > I think it's a bad idea, but unconstitutional it is not. > > I know there are wacko movements and book-writers who tell people they > don't have to pay their income taxes because it is unconstitutional. > Good luck in court if you take them seriously. Those ideas belong on the > > sme shelf with the UFO and Elvis-sighting books. > > In the meantime, get a copy of the US Constitution and READ it. It's > available on the internet in several places. A quick Google search will > provide you with enlightenment. Your congressman's office will probably > send you a free copy of the Constitution upon request. > > AW === This isn't (going to be) easy to explain in the written word - especially in one sitting, at the keypad... know what i'm saying? I completely agree with you that it is the "law of the land!" But! Just as the Pope is not my Father (of the spiritual realm). Neither is George Washington my Father (of this country). I do not recognize the authority of either entity as being able to compel me to follow their dictates. I (Rod) was not born into this world - not of my making - to be a loyal subject of Earthly Dominion. (territorial turf) For many people, you wake up one day and figure out that something is rotten in denmark - figure out that Buzz Aldrin (33rd degree Mason) never set foot on the Moon. It was all filmed ahead of time, in a Howard Hughes-built movie set at Groom Lake (area 51), Nevada. Just because the moonshots looked realistic - doesn't make it legal. Space Shuttles are 1960's technology - presently, they are grounded. Apollo 13 was filmed at Nevada site. It doesn't surprise me what J. Edgar Hoover (33rd degree Mason) did illegally. A Congressman is introducing legislation that would remove Hoover's name from all public buildings in the US. The FBI is under the jurisdiction of the Justice Department - that answers to no one. The IRS - answers to no one. Representative from Ohio, James A. Traficant Jr. was charged & Convicted (state court) on 10 Felony counts & some misdemeanors (bribery type stuff). The is the man who - brought Demjanyuk, who was acccused of being... Ivan the Terrible - some prison guard from ww2 concentration camp in germany. - place on trial in Israel for being the camp guard - found to be the wrong man - and released to the care of Traficant at airport in Israel and the two of flew back to US together. Traficant is the only American to beat a federal RICO rap! He is being targeted because of his exposure that the Democratic Party accepted $$$ from the Government of ed China. A few nuke secrets about the W-88 nuke bomb blueprints, etc. for campaign donations. Janet Reno is a traitor. Call your Congressman (whoever may be reading this on this list from America) and urge them to voted against any form of punishment. Well, this is my opening salvo on why the "income" tax is illegal. Look what is happening to Rep. Traficant all because he went against the IRS in the 1980's and the "reforms" that he instituted with the help of Rep. Bill Archer-R, of Texas. The 16th is illegal in the way that it has been "interpreted." Look at the way the 2nd Amendment has been "interpreted." It's after 3am here in Dakota - need a couple hours of shut-eye before milking (machine) the cows - then its off to the golf course to work on the 16th green. If it doesn't rain - we will complete the 18th on Sunday. Go Tiger! (british open) This ends part o
RE: {W&P} SV: Norway: left parties and trade unions embrace far-right Progress
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:04 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Norway: left parties and trade unions embrace far-right
> Progress Party
>
>
> > Norway: left parties and trade unions embrace far-right Progress
> > Party
> >
> > http://www.wsws.org/articles/2002/jul2002/norw-j11_prn.shtml
> >
> > ===
> >
> >
> > your pals,
> > r/c (R)
> >
>
> Embrace? Only as far as needed, but embrace? No way.
===
With full EU membership looming - this makes for "strange bedfellows."
Somewhat like whats happened in the USA with the individual Statehood of
Union - state laws & "regulations" are required for membership in the
"greater good" of the Whole. People don't matter as its all in the
Paper Trail (Constitution & Bill of Rights) and how to twist the Law to
mean what the "masters" wish it to mean. The "masters" are the
black-robed "judges" who read the "script" from past generations
(directors) and to signal present leadership to get their eggs into one
basket.
The US is ebbing and the EU is rising.
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RE: {W&P} SV: Sobran Column -- The American Future
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 4:10 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Sobran Column -- The American Future
>
>
> > Sobran Column -- The American Future
> >
> > http://www.sobran.com/columns/020625.shtml
> >
> > ===
> >
> >
> > your pals,
> > r/c (R)
> >
>
> Another dystopia. One of many. Who remebers 1984? Who thinks that that
> story ever came into reality? Anywhere?
>
> But they all make material for exiting storys on film. And fill the
> pockets (or rather bankaccounts) of the corporations. That's why they
> are made.
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
===
I forgot to add a disclaimer about George Orwell's book (1984) and how
it reminds me of what is occurring in the present goings-on of the world
in 2002. Mr. Orwell was a big-time Freemason - and his "expression" of
the year 1984 being of special significance is only relevant that the
thus-named year related to an anniversary of a small coterie of personal
friends (all are masons) that suggested that the Temple Mount would be
Secured in early 2003.
Rod
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RE: {W&P} SV: Polish right party calls for God in Constitution
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 3:52 AM
> Subject: {W&P} Polish right party calls for God in Constitution
>
>
> > Polish right party calls for God in Constitution
> >
> > http://www.euobserver.com/index.phtml?print=true&sid=9&aid=6998
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > your pals,
> > r/c (R)
>
> How can they! God is already protecting USA! Or it's not the same God?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
===
Polish jokes are big in USA - i'm not going there.
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: Al Winslow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Thursday, July 18, 2002 2:30 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
>
>
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> >
> > >
> > > How can incometax be considdered so wrong. It's the normal way of paying
> > >
> > > tax in the rest of the western world?
> > >
> > > Claes
> > >
> > --
> >
> > I wouldn't have much objection to an income tax if a few permanent
> > changes were made in the particular tax laws and governmental programs
> > that apply here in the USA.
> >
> > First, the government should stop wasting money on things that private
> > enterprise can do so much more efficiently.
> >
> > Then, the tax itself should be very, very simplified and uniform. A flat
> >
> > percentage across the board for all income levels with no deductions or
> > exemptions.
> >
> > The tax law I would write would only exempt the first several thousand
> > dollars an individual earned in a year. Above that amount all income of
> > all people would be taxed at the same rate, period.
> >
> > That's if there has to be an income tax at all. I would much prefer a
> > sales or value-added tax instead of an income tax. Unfortunately that's
> >
> > not a realistic prospect, politically.
> >
> > In the USA we are taxed at several levels. The federal government has a
> > very complicated and unfair income tax. Many of the 50 states also have
> > an income tax. My state, Virginia, has an income tax. Then there are
> > sales taxes, property taxes and various other fees and charges for
> > government services.
> >
> > Added all together we are very heavily taxed, but some people are
> > burdened much more severely than others. It's a patchwork that has grown
> >
> > over the years and it needs a remake from top-to-bottom.
> >
> > It definitely is in accordance with our Constitution, however. The US
> > Constitution is the supreme law of the land and once it is amended, as
> > in the case of the income tax amendment, it is as legal and inescapable
> > as anything an possibly be in this county.
> >
> > AW
>
> I see what you mean, Al. If it's any comfort it's about the same here in
> Sweeden. Income tax that's divided into a community part that all pay
> and a state part that is only payed by the more well payed inhbitants.
> Then there is MOMS (added value tax, in some cases 6%, in other cases
> 12%) that corporations have to deliver to the tax autority plua a point
> tax at special goods like alcohol (around 90-95% compared with the cost
> of manufacturing). Your salary+employee fees = 100. 100 - employeefees
> that the employer delivers to tax authority = 100 - 35 = 65. 65 is your
> salary and from that is taken incometax. 65 - 20 = 45. This 45 is what
> you can take out to the shops. If you are so stupid that you buy a
> bottle of Vodka for 200 SEK I would say that at least 180 SEK is tax.
>
> Maybe you like it better in USA now?
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
>
--
Oh, I like it just fine here, Claes. But I complain constantly to my
elected representatives at both the local and national level about taxes
and many othe things. I join with people who think as I do and we try to
drive the politicians nuts with our petitions and demands. It's fun --
and sometimes it even works!
AW
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: Formulating a Theory
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > A person has to learn to think for themselves and not to blindly follow > the > crowd. The same logic applies to a country. That would be the end of the Left. > > The Kyoto Treaty is wrong, actually harmful, to the USA. It penalizes us > > severely while giving a pass to other nations. And I think the whole > idea > behind it was to reign in our economy and hurt our nation while allowing > > other nations to catch up and pass us. Exactly correct! Red China, most notably. > > The ICC puts our citizens, soldiers and civilians, at the whim and mercy > of > our enemies with no upholding of our laws. Right again. There's no way the America-haters would give Americans a fair hearing. At the same time they will let various dictators who gas whole villages full of civilians go untouched. Slavers in Africa will keep on doing business as usual. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
Re: {W&P} SV: SV: Skull Fossil Challenges Out-of-Africa Theory
In a message dated 7/12/2002 9:18:04 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: It's a possibility. It could have happened that way. That doesn't mean it did happen that way. If it did happen that way it takes something away from the Divine Interference interpretation of the event, doesn't it? = To me, it doesn't ... I don't have a Bible close by, but I think it says something like God stretched out His hand and parted the Red Sea -- but it doesn't say what method He used to do it, just that He did it ... and an earthquake is a legitimate way to do it. Lawana ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
Claes Persson wrote: > > How can incometax be considdered so wrong. It's the normal way of paying > tax in the rest of the western world? > > Claes > -- I wouldn't have much objection to an income tax if a few permanent changes were made in the particular tax laws and governmental programs that apply here in the USA. First, the government should stop wasting money on things that private enterprise can do so much more efficiently. Then, the tax itself should be very, very simplified and uniform. A flat percentage across the board for all income levels with no deductions or exemptions. The tax law I would write would only exempt the first several thousand dollars an individual earned in a year. Above that amount all income of all people would be taxed at the same rate, period. That's if there has to be an income tax at all. I would much prefer a sales or value-added tax instead of an income tax. Unfortunately that's not a realistic prospect, politically. In the USA we are taxed at several levels. The federal government has a very complicated and unfair income tax. Many of the 50 states also have an income tax. My state, Virginia, has an income tax. Then there are sales taxes, property taxes and various other fees and charges for government services. Added all together we are very heavily taxed, but some people are burdened much more severely than others. It's a patchwork that has grown over the years and it needs a remake from top-to-bottom. It definitely is in accordance with our Constitution, however. The US Constitution is the supreme law of the land and once it is amended, as in the case of the income tax amendment, it is as legal and inescapable as anything an possibly be in this county. AW ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
rod/christine wrote: > > > Al Winslow wrote: > > > > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > > > > The income tax is unconstitutional. > > > > -- > > > > Th income tax is a bad idea, but it is not unconstitutional. > > > > The Constitution was AMENDED nearly 90 years ago specifically to allow > > the federal government to levy such a tax. > > > > It's the 16th Amendment. > > > > Once an amenedment becomes part of the Constitution, whatever it allows > > is constitutional. > > === > > In my opinion... it is unconstitutional. > > R > > I'd be interested in hearing how you arrive at the notion that something that is provided for in an amendment to the Constitution could be unconstitutional. You could have the opinion that you are the King of Prussia, but that wouldn't make it so. The income tax may be something that you really, really don't like. It may be a terrible idea. But, since the Sixteenth Amrendment to the US Constitution [ratified Feb. 25, 1913] says "The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on income from whatever source derived..." there's hardly any way it can be "unconstitutional." That's not a mere piece of congressional legislation. It is a constitutional amednmemt, passed, approved and ratified by the amendment process contained within the Constitution. I think it's a bad idea, but unconstitutional it is not. I know there are wacko movements and book-writers who tell people they don't have to pay their income taxes because it is unconstitutional. Good luck in court if you take them seriously. Those ideas belong on the sme shelf with the UFO and Elvis-sighting books. In the meantime, get a copy of the US Constitution and READ it. It's available on the internet in several places. A quick Google search will provide you with enlightenment. Your congressman's office will probably send you a free copy of the Constitution upon request. AW ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
Al Winslow wrote: > > > rod/christine wrote: > > > > > The income tax is unconstitutional. > > -- > > Th income tax is a bad idea, but it is not unconstitutional. > > The Constitution was AMENDED nearly 90 years ago specifically to allow > the federal government to levy such a tax. > > It's the 16th Amendment. > > Once an amenedment becomes part of the Constitution, whatever it allows > is constitutional. === In my opinion... it is unconstitutional. R ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} Guns
rod/christine wrote: > Well, i wasn't around in 1923 when North Dakota did their thing. Nor, > in 1940, when most every (other) state adopted the Sullivan theory of > guns. > > Jesus's disciple pals had swords and knives (brass-knuckles?) helmets, > etc. > > When i'm out mending fences or some other menial task that involves the > possible interaction with wild animals - badgers come to mind - always > carry a holstered gun and a rifle or shotgun in the pickup. Common > sense. North Dakota is a low-population agricultural state, so the > chance that, for instances, armed intruders, thieves, fiends, > murder-on-their-mind types, Bonnie & Clyde would be cool though. > > Traveling (or vacationing) from state-to-state, one must call ahead to > see if it is alright to travel with a concealed weapon. Many highway > robbers lie in wait for the unwary or unsuspecting soul and a "handy" > gun is the equalizer for most Showdowns. > > The overwhelming population are in the cities and their ever-present > suburban sprawl - so the "gun question" takes on a different spin that > i'm not too familiar with so i'll leave it at that. The Feds should > keep their "hooks off" - what individual States (citizens) decide to > enact into law. However, too many laws the way it is. Enforce the > present laws. > > Gun Education & Handling should be mandatory "for all" in the public > schools. Somewhat on the Switzerland model maybe. > > I had another take on this article but i've lost it (and can't recall at > > this time!) > > Guns are good. > > ps- This was a long article - yikes! > > Rod > > > === > > > Al Winslow wrote: > > Fighting Back: Crime, Self-Defense and the Right to > > Carry a Handgun > > http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-284.html > Needless to say, I like guns too. I spend some time, energy and money on the political fight to protect our Secons Amendment rights. Here in Virginia we have a must-issue concealed carry law. That is, if a person has a felony-free record, the law requires that a permit to carry a concealed handgun must be issued upon request -- after a background check and completion of a firearms training session with an approved instructor. Unfortunately, there are several restrictions on where the gun can be carried. Such restrictions are, of course, uncontitutional. I own several firearms and I am always armed. I'm living in a seaport city that has a crime rate comparable to most similar-sized US cities. The crime rate would be much lower if the namby-pamby courts would put the criminal scum away for longer sentences. Most crimes are committed by people with criminal histories who should never have been let out to prey upon society again. As the Cato Institute article said, states that issue concealed carry permits have practically no problems with the people who obtain the permits. Crimes by such folks involving their guns are statistically insignificant. The number of crimes thwarted by legal gun-owners is not subject to precise figures because so many of them don't involve firing the gun and are often not even reported. Studies have indicated that upwards of 2 million crimes a year are stopped by the possession of firearms by law-abiding citizens. I carry a .40 caliber Glock most of the time. The Glock is the only semi-auto pistol I've tried that is reliable enough for self defense. Before buying my Glocks I was strictly a revolver man. I also have a nice selection of long guns, including an AR-15 and a tactical shotgun. AW ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
rod/christine wrote: > > The income tax is unconstitutional. -- Th income tax is a bad idea, but it is not unconstitutional. The Constitution was AMENDED nearly 90 years ago specifically to allow the federal government to levy such a tax. It's the 16th Amendment. Once an amenedment becomes part of the Constitution, whatever it allows is constitutional. ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
RE: {W&P} SV: One Volk! One Reich! One Euro!
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Tuesday, July 16, 2002 11:46 PM
> Subject: {W&P} One Volk! One Reich! One Euro!
>
>
> > One Volk! One Reich! One Euro!
> >
> > http://www.richardpoe.com/column.cgi?story=106
> >
> >
>
> The link don't work. It can not be found, but I think it shold be:
>
> Ein Volk! Ein Reich! Ein Euro! written by Ein Idiot!
>
> Claes
> §( :8-)
===
The link works for me. Greece is the genesis of the article.
Rod
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RE: {W&P} SV: SV: The Revolution of 1935
or throughout
===
Claes Persson wrote:
> - Original Message -
> From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Sent: Monday, July 15, 2002 12:59 PM
> Subject: RE: {W&P} SV: The Revolution of 1935
>
>
> >
> >
> > Claes Persson wrote:
> > > - Original Message -
> > > From: rod/christine <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > Sent: Sunday, July 14, 2002 1:44 AM
> > > Subject: {W&P} The Revolution of 1935
> > >
> > >
> > > > The Revolution of 1935
> > > >
> > > > http://www.mises.org/fullstory.asp?printFriendly=Yes&control=997
> > > >
> > > > ===
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > your pals,
> > > > r/c (R)
> > > >
> > >
> > > America should be very greatful to President Roosevelt for his starting
> > > of social security. No modern country can handle the ups and downs in
> > > the labourmarket without some kind of social security. Never mind that
> > > there has to be some people to handle the paperwork. It's up to them to
> > > make sure they handle it correct. If not - in comes the law.
> > >
> > > Claes
> > > §( :8-)
> >
> > ===
> >
> > I'd like to be optimistic but my conservative streak (happy face
> > inserted) just won't allow that to happen. Social security "payments"
> > take the top 7% off of a paycheck. Don't need Big Brother (highway
> > robber) grabbing my hard-earned labor and telling me in the same breath
> > that Congress (Enron Recipients) has its fingers on the filthy lucre and
> >
> > will see to it that "me" is taken care of in old age.
> >
> > I'd like the retirement plan that Congress gives itself - at taxpayer
> > expense.
> >
> > Think Bill Clinton (cokehead) and Al Gore Jr. (33rd degree freemason)
> > were/are corrupt?
> >
> > George Bush Jr. (cocaine dealer) and Dick Cheney (33rd degree freemason)
> >
> > are taking the USA government and shaking the remaining money from the
> > taxpayer.
> >
> > What better way to rip-off the taxpayer without any complaint.
===
> I agree that there are some curious things going on in USA to day and
> there are good reasons to keep an eye on them, but why is everybody
> claiming that the tax-payer is ripped off? Maybe only zero tax % would
> stop that? How high is the tax? 30% - 40%?
===
The income tax is unconstitutional.
The payroll tax is unconstitutional.
The social security "tax" is unconstitutional.
Counting hidden taxes, fees, etc., the combined governments probably
grab about 55% of a paycheck. However, if you have or can afford a tax
expert - the "government" might give to a total refund. Only the
Rockefellers, Carnegies, Bush's, Gates's, Kennedy's Ford -type of
families (ultra-super-old money class) qualify for special status with
their _Foundations_ and tax-exempt orgs. & and various schemes to pass
the buck to the bottom-dweller (meant in a nice way) taxpayer at the
bottom of the pay scale.
The Laws have become too complex and cumbersome for the "average"
american to decipher and act upon.
Representative James A. Traficant-Independent-Ohio, is totally innocent
- yet - is about to be EXPELLED from Congress - based upon "hearsay"
evidence. The USA is legally falling apart. The United States Of
America (Legal Entity) is on its gasping last breath.
Foreign money is being withdrawn.
===
> >
> > By the way, children (infants) are "given" social security "number"
> > pretty much without any complaint from the baby (non-adult) and is thus
> > "branded" with the Mark of the State.
> >
===
> Why "branded"? Do you get branded when you apply for a passport too?
===
"branded" is my spin on an american oxymoron-type of phrase (cruel
kindness)
A TV program from the 50's titled "Branded" - starring Chuck Connors.
The power of The State is all-knowing, all-seeing. See the "Eye" on the
american dollar bill - research the Masonic History for the Solution.
This isn't meant as a conspiracy theory - just plain facts.
National ID Cards with bio-chips implanted in our hand or forehead is
the ultimate Final Solution of The State. The railcars with their
shipping containers attached, will distribute the recalcitrant of the
citizenry, to be reeducated Camped - or - exterminated. If exterminated
(more likely
RE: {W&P} Guns
Well, i wasn't around in 1923 when North Dakota did their thing. Nor, in 1940, when most every (other) state adopted the Sullivan theory of guns. Jesus's disciple pals had swords and knives (brass-knuckles?) helmets, etc. When i'm out mending fences or some other menial task that involves the possible interaction with wild animals - badgers come to mind - always carry a holstered gun and a rifle or shotgun in the pickup. Common sense. North Dakota is a low-population agricultural state, so the chance that, for instances, armed intruders, thieves, fiends, murder-on-their-mind types, Bonnie & Clyde would be cool though. Traveling (or vacationing) from state-to-state, one must call ahead to see if it is alright to travel with a concealed weapon. Many highway robbers lie in wait for the unwary or unsuspecting soul and a "handy" gun is the equalizer for most Showdowns. The overwhelming population are in the cities and their ever-present suburban sprawl - so the "gun question" takes on a different spin that i'm not too familiar with so i'll leave it at that. The Feds should keep their "hooks off" - what individual States (citizens) decide to enact into law. However, too many laws the way it is. Enforce the present laws. Gun Education & Handling should be mandatory "for all" in the public schools. Somewhat on the Switzerland model maybe. I had another take on this article but i've lost it (and can't recall at this time!) Guns are good. ps- This was a long article - yikes! Rod === Al Winslow wrote: > Fighting Back: Crime, Self-Defense and the Right to > Carry a Handgun > http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa-284.html > > __ > Do You Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Autos - Get free new car price quotes > http://autos.yahoo.com > > > ___ Check out http://clik.to/sf for other lists to join. A93MR48T18 ==^ This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?b1dhdK.b1tdRU Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^
