date:20100518

A friend had a party for her 50th birthday last weekend and wanted me  
to do photos at it.


It pretty much was my first time doing a studio shoot someplace  
other than my house, so I spent a lot of time figuring out what to  
bring, what I'd use etc.  It took me a while to get the lights dialed  
in, I didn't actually ever feel very comfortable with the lighting,  
but I got it close enough.


A couple of the photos border on risque, but I don't thing anything is  
quite NSFW:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157624084878522/

This shot of Josh and Sabrina answers the question of what he has on  
his mind:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617522133/in/set-72157624084878522/

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RE: Chicago

Yes, this is essentially the standard counter-argument by art theorists that
intention is a necessary part of art. It is usually framed in terms of naïve
 primitive painters, sculptors and so on, but vernacular photography works
equally well.

Bob
 
 Every time I hear about intent I remember this piece of 
 Genius of Photography and the NY police crime scene shots. 
 There was no intent of making art, but this can be considered 
 art nonetheless.
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8KljdoZM0
 
 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:17 PM, P. J. Alling 
 webstertwenty...@gmail.com wrote:
  On 5/12/2010 10:09 AM, P N Stenquist wrote:
 
  On May 12, 2010, at 9:19 AM, William Robb wrote:
 
 
  - Original Message - From: paul stenquist
  Subject: Re: Chicago
 
 
 
 
  Invoking an emotional response is artistry in its highest form.
 
  When Tom and I were driving to the hotel on Thursday, a station 
  wagon being driven in an erratic and dangerous manner invoked a 
  fairly extreme emotional response from both of us.
  I hadn't thought of bad driving as being an art form before this 
  moment.
 
 
  Well, it can be.
 
  I think this is as good a place for my comment in this discussion.  
  For it to actually be Art there has to be _describable_ 
 intent on the 
  part of the /Artist/.  That usually, but doesn't always, requires a 
  certain level of craftsmanship.  So I guess intentional bad 
 driving is 
  Art, while unintentional bad driving isn't.  Extrapolate to 
 the rest 
  of the universe at your peril.
 
 
 
  William Robb
 
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 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ferand/
 
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Re: PESO-Clementine Rainbow

On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 I guess it begs the question...Does it really matter whether it was a
 daytime or nighttime shot?  If a take a shot at night and expose it
 to look more like daylight or take a shot in the daytime and expose
 it so it looks like night...

It's fine so long as there's limited ambiguity in the case of
otherwise un-manipulated images. For instance if I make a shot of my
back yard by moonlight it generally looks quite strange as often due
to its position in the sky the moon casts shadows that the sun
couldn't.

 Was the shot pleasing?  I will certainly play around with it to see
 what it looks like more 'daylight', but I suspect you will get to see
 nice greenish water instead of the strong contrast.

It was pleasing, I appreciated the composition and content but due to
the ambiguity developed by the exposure wondered quite what was going
on, I guess for a straight landscape that's a little unusual.

I did have a play and the water does show green but the contrast can
be maintained and the image still remains strong.

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Re: Leica M9

On 18/05/2010, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 A good rangefinder? Perhaps as rangefinders go..

If you want to experience un-ambiguous focus with normal to
super-wides the old RF design can't be beat.

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Re: PESO Tilted is the new level

2010-05-18 Thread Derby Chang


eckinator wrote:

2010/5/17 eckinator eckina...@gmail.com:
  

I'll post a few gear pics later today and add some explanations



Here you go now. My kit. A combination of eBay steals and I'm so happy
I finally get around to play with it extensively.

My biggest problem at this time is that framing and focus change every
time I adjust tilt, i.e. focal plane or shift, i.e. perspective
correction. Presently I have sitting on my ballhead/qr base one macro
rail which holds an L bracket with a panorama plate attached to it
which then holds the bellows. All parts are Novoflex Q quick release
so I can change the setup around as I proceed to learn. I came up with
the pano plate idea because as you can see my tripod has no center
column nor do the legs lock in every position so there is no easy on
the fly height adjustment. The combination of a rail running at an
angle with the pano plate, all parts moving also forwards and
backwards in their respective clamps, gives limited height adjustment
and at the same time lets me rotate the camera/bellows/lens assembly
to reframe after tilting.

One or actually the only weakness of the BalPro T/S is that the rear
standart doesn't move well on the carrier rail because it isn't gear
driven. Fine adjustment is simply not possibly so you have to move the
entire assembly instead and then refocus using the lens standart. My
main learning curve at this time is to observe and understand the
impact of adjustments on framing and focus. Focal plane adjustment is
pretty simple once you get the hang of it. Once back on a regular
paycheque I hope to get another rail for sideways adjustments which
would let me frame laterally without moving the tripod. Luckily that
stuff is all relatively light.

For this shot, the relatively extreme tilt angles meant I was grabbing
light close to the outer edge of the image circle of the Copal 0
diameter large format lens I was using; it has a 59° angle of view and
I was decentering by 27°. Also this means lighting falloff as the
bellows extends plus a little more for tilt. I find IQ amazing for
that and was very pleased with the viewfinder image. Focus
confirmation was only moderately helpful. I focused using my eyes and
the screen.

I have another Copal 0 lens board so I am hoping to pick up another
lens eventually. Reason: this lens lets me focus to infinity but at
that setting there is no room for tilt, only very limited shift. A
slightly longer lens would let me do that. When I picked up the
bellows, I also grabbed a Pentax 67 camera adaptor for it but got
outbid on the 67 lens board. Have yet to meet the free camera fairy
though before I can think of shooting medium format film...

Next step I'll try to find an adaptor plate that lets me put the rail
between tripod and balhead to see if that is any better for framing.
Also, the tripod has mount holes for flexible arms to which I can
attach items such as reflectors, flashes, plane indicators to get the
Scheimpflug adjustment done faster. The goal of it all is to be able
to do it faster. Once I can set it up quickly to where and what I
want, I can more easily try different angles etc. and learn how to use
the extra DOF in framing.

There is also an interesting option to be gained from inverting tilt
as well as axial roation of assembly planes vs. subject plane - you
can create a sharp wedge running across the subject at almost any
angle, I've yet to learn that but I have some pretty good instructions
=)

Cheers
Ecke

  


Uh oh. Get out the Dyson. My mind is blown

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Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange

On 18/05/2010, Larry Colen l...@red4est.com wrote:
 I was asked to do some photo sessions at a party this weekend.
 I tried to take care not to blow out the red channel when I was setting the
 exposure, but when I looked at the photos in LR on my mac the reds seemed
 somewhat orangey, and the dayglow pink and the dayglow orange had lost a lot
 of their pop and their saturation.

 Was this a case of my misreading the histogram, or the histogram being based
 on JPEG and not RAW so it wasn't really showing the red channel blowing out?
  In future situations, should I leave more headroom in the exposure?

Try not to saturate as always when shooting dayglow type colours but
don't expect anything but an approximation of their appearance in post
processed images. Firstly I'm not sure if the colours actually fit in
the gamut of the camera but even if they did then they would need to
be compressed in order to fit into the gamut of the monitor. How the
CMS on the target system manages this I'm not sure, I would expect
that it would apply a perceptual rendering intent.

Most likely it's best to experiment with different rendering intents
when converting the image to sRGB for display with this type of
material. I have shot work gear for an on-line catalogue in the past
and it came out quite well, can't recall the particular work flow
unfortunately.

Cheers,

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K-7, Digital and film observations.

2010-05-18 Thread Malcolm Smith

A couple of months ago, I finally got a K-7. Unlike most new owners, I've
only really got to open the box and use it in the last week, after actually
reading the manual first (I know, very odd). I bought the ist D when it
first came out and I've never seen up close any of the other Pentax DSLRs,
until this arrived at the door. I really like the slightly bigger size and
larger screen and everything falls easily to hand. The one thing I hate is
the memory card and getting access to it - it is so darn small with big
hands. Otherwise, it is such a large jump from the ist D that in many ways,
it is like getting a digital camera again for the first time.

Yet the digital revolution hasn't really taken place in this house, even now
I use my film cameras on a regular basis, and I've assumed I'm in a small
minority of people who do so. Looking through prices of film cameras over
the last month or so on eBay, I've been very surprised to find that they are
much what they were before the introduction of digital SLRs. With various
films being discontinued, film cameras are still not heading for the shelves
to collect dust or end in collections, so it appears there is a smaller but
stable market for users of film cameras and related equipment. I'm guessing
the real division between film and digital use now is by those who earn any
form of income via photography, and film is becoming the preserve of the
hobbyist.

Some years ago, I imagined that I would slowly dispose of film equipment -
indeed, I have reduced the number of cameras I have but only for duplicates
- but the reality is that I now have two bags, one with film and one with
digital and the choice of using the selection of lenses, such as it is,
across both. I suspect the digital only choice will be made for me when I
can no longer buy film.

Finally, a quick word of thanks for the string on architecture. I went back
this weekend to take pictures of the local Huf-Haus properties, but the one
vantage point away from the road from the footpath had been occupied by a
large number of travellers vehicles, so I chose to move on. I have however,
started to take pictures of the rest of the road, because it is at a turning
point where more building is about to commence, and if I don't record it now
the opportunity will be lost. It's a three mile stretch and with the time I
have available, that is my project for 2010.

Malcolm

 


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Re: PESO: Should I?

2010-05-18 Thread Madame RD


Le 18/05/10 06:22, Jerry in Arizona a écrit :

Pentax K20D, DA 3.5-5.6 18-55 18-55mm

Taken outside a tattoo/piercing parlor in San Francisco Haight Ashbury district 
last December.  Was she trying to decide on a tattoo or being pierced?

Same place I had my ear pierced that day.

http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/gelewis_2010/ColdSteelPiercingB.jpg

   
I'd have thought :   should I  tell her/his mum or not ?   
.. i'm wondering whether having her entire right arm in the picture 
would change something or not ?


dominique



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Re: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick

On 18/05/2010, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:
 After the exhibit opening, many of us went to the roof for a look at downtown.

 http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11021659size=lg

Swt...

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

2010-05-18 Thread Madame RD


Le 17/05/10 23:02, Jack Davis a écrit :

Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in hand. Mocking Birds are in 
full voice right now and quite active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying 
their Nyger, Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may have 
attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid stride as he turned to 
depart.
Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the frame.(?)

Comments?

Jack
   


great  photo !.. and you  know,   I've been wondering what a mockingbird 
looked like  eversince I read that book : to kill a mockingbird ...

so this pic is very welcome indeed !

dominique



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PESO Dusk Harbour Pano

Hi Team,

Another pano shot last weekend. The image was captured hand held using
K-x and smc PENTAX-A 50mm F1.2 f4 1/25, ISO 250 and assembled using
Autopano rendered in a cylindrical projection. The source files
consisted of 12 portrait 2MP in-camera JPG files. The output file
contrast was modified using curves then reduced to 50% of its original
size.

Still not sure about the image brightness, it's always a difficult
task to render mixed lighting at dusk. It's got a bit of a tilt issue
but still it stands as a testament to Pentax SR given that it was shot
from a moving harbour ferry ;-)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~aglcnews/temp/Pano-IMGX01740sm.jpg
(about 3MB and yes you will have to scroll ;-)

Hope you enjoy.

Cheers,


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Re: PESO - Clementine Rainbow Round 2

On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 After multiple comments I have made a version that is lighter.  As I
 look at them, I still prefer the original.

 Here is a version lightened a little to bring out the water and
 surrounding rocks and trees:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-2.htm

 Original:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-1.htm

Hi Bruce,

I prefer the original too given the choices.

Cheers,

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

2010-05-18 Thread Toine

Great capture. I like it!
If it's a heavy crop I would add some space to the right and place the
bird at 1/3 of the frame.
Toine

On 17 May 2010 23:02, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in hand. Mocking Birds are 
 in full voice right now and quite active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches 
 emptying their Nyger, Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity 
 may have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid stride as he 
 turned to depart.
 Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the frame.(?)

 Comments?

 Jack

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503

 K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400






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RE: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread Bill Sawyer

Paul,

I just picked up a used M7, to shoot BW film.  I like the phrase 'a thing
of beauty', but there is a real learning curve to using a rangefinder. 

Bill Sawyer

-Original Message-
From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On Behalf Of paul
stenquist
Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:39 PM
To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
Subject: Re: Leica M9

Good rangefinders are wonderful. Especially for us old guys with bad eyes.
Paul

On May 17, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

 I don't play well with Rangefinders. ugh!
 
 Jack
 
 --- On Mon, 5/17/10, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:
 
 From: William Robb war...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: Leica M9
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:31 PM
 
 - Original Message - From: Steven Desjardins
 Subject: Re: Leica M9
 
 
 I assume that you do have sufficient liquid assets to
 take care of the
 inevitable result?
 
 No, and as nice as it is, and make no mistake, it is a
 thing of great beauty, it would be totally lost on me.
 But it sure has a nice viewfinder.
 
 William Robb 
 
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Re: PESO Tilted is the new level

Mr Dutch Free Camera Fairy

I almost omitted you; I am sorry. Indeed that is the Z70 on its first
battery and roll and so far all functions appear to be in order.
Having finally obtained a full format camera without stupid menus, I
decided to go pro so it is of course Velvia... Thanks again, man =)

Setup took a bit of practice but now I can have it up and pointed in
roughly the right direction in under two minutes with short or under
three with long legs.

Now all I have to do is master it to the point of taking awesome
pictures so I can delete the nice ones ;] Not fishing for compliments
here, I'm really not all that happy with the image so I still have a
lot to learn.

Cheers
Ecke

2010/5/18 Toine to...@repiuk.nl:
 That's a serious setup. I'm flabbergasted how all the angles and tilts
 interact properly. I do spot a Z70 :)

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

I have nothing so big either. I'm familiar with the prime over zoom concept, 
Bob.
Actually, Pop Photo's SQF tests of both the DA*300 f/4 and the DA 55~300 
/f4-5.6 showed the 55~300 as producing much superior resolution results at all 
comparable aperture settings. I realize, of course, that's only one test and 
doesn't account for sample variations.
Due to its light weight and zoom extension, the DA 55~300 almost demands a 
solid rest.

Jack 


--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 8:45 PM
 Jack,
 I have nothing so big, but I'd drag out the A400/5.6 or
 A300/4 and the
 1.7x AF converter.
 Just pick a prime over the zoom.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 6:37 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  The desire simply isn't there to justify the cost.
  I dealt with an A 300mm f/2.8 and 1.4L T/C, packed
 snugly in its own trunk case, for several years. I'm still
 worn out. ;)
 
  Jack
 
  --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com
 wrote:
 
  From: Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com
  Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
  Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:11 PM
  I can certainly see where Jack is
  coming from.  Unless you are going
  to get seriously into wildlife, a 300-400 is about
 as long
  as you'll
  want to deal with.  About the only other thing I
 could
  think of for
  Jack might be a fast enough 300 to allow a 1.4
  converter.  That is
  what I have and use - 100-300/4, but then, I got
 it for
  shooting
  sports mostly.
 
  I don't think I would want to deal with the real
 big glass
  just yet.
 
  --
  Best regards,
  Bruce
 
 
  Monday, May 17, 2010, 3:46:35 PM, you wrote:
 
  BS Jack,
  BS You're sitting in your back yard.
  BS How far would you have to 'tote' a long
 lens???
  BS Regards, Bob S.
 
  BS On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:15 PM, Jack Davis
 jdavi...@yahoo.com
  wrote:
   This is as long a lens as I have any
 interest in
  tottin'.
   This light wight, decent performing,
 450mm
  equivalent does it for me.
   Thanks for commenting.
  
   Jack
  
   --- On Mon, 5/17/10, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
  wrote:
  
   From: Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
   Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
   To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
   Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 2:18 PM
   Very nice Jack, time to break out
 the
   long lens...
   Regards,  Bob S.
  
   On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 4:02 PM, Jack
 Davis
  jdavi...@yahoo.com
   wrote:
Was still reclining on the patio
 Chaise
  with K20 in
   hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice
 right
  now and quite
   active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches
 emptying
  their Nyger,
   Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time
 and that
  activity may
   have attracted this party. Got him,
 between
  yawns, in mid
   stride as he turned to depart.
Really heavy crop. Possibly a
 quarter of
  the
   frame.(?)
   
Comments?
   
Jack
   
http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503
   
K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8,
 1/1500, ISO
  400
   
   
   
   
   
   
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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

Appreciated comments, Dominique!

Jack

--- On Tue, 5/18/10, Madame RD romd...@orange.fr wrote:

 From: Madame RD romd...@orange.fr
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 2:28 AM
 Le 17/05/10 23:02, Jack Davis a
 écrit :
  Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in
 hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now and quite
 active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying their Nyger,
 Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may
 have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid
 stride as he turned to depart.
  Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
 frame.(?)

  Comments?

  Jack

 great  photo !.. and you 
 know,   I've been wondering what a
 mockingbird 
 looked like  eversince I read that book : to kill a
 mockingbird ...
 so this pic is very welcome indeed !

 dominique

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

Thanks for the rule of thirds remind, Toine. Actually posted for a brief 
existence.

Jack

--- On Tue, 5/18/10, Toine to...@repiuk.nl wrote:

 From: Toine to...@repiuk.nl
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 3:49 AM
 Great capture. I like it!
 If it's a heavy crop I would add some space to the right
 and place the
 bird at 1/3 of the frame.
 Toine

 On 17 May 2010 23:02, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in
 hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now and quite
 active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying their Nyger,
 Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may
 have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid
 stride as he turned to depart.
  Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
 frame.(?)

  Comments?

  Jack

  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503

  K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400

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Re: PESO Dusk Harbour Pano

Lovely image Rob.  From amoving ferry?  Impressive!
Why 2 MP jpegs?  Buffer size in the K-x?
You'll be giving Boris a run for it with the A50/1.2.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 Hi Team,

 Another pano shot last weekend. The image was captured hand held using
 K-x and smc PENTAX-A 50mm F1.2 f4 1/25, ISO 250 and assembled using
 Autopano rendered in a cylindrical projection. The source files
 consisted of 12 portrait 2MP in-camera JPG files. The output file
 contrast was modified using curves then reduced to 50% of its original
 size.

 Still not sure about the image brightness, it's always a difficult
 task to render mixed lighting at dusk. It's got a bit of a tilt issue
 but still it stands as a testament to Pentax SR given that it was shot
 from a moving harbour ferry ;-)

 http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~aglcnews/temp/Pano-IMGX01740sm.jpg
 (about 3MB and yes you will have to scroll ;-)

 Hope you enjoy.

 Cheers,


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 Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
 Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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Re: PESO - Clementine Rainbow Round 2

Bruce,
I appreciate the effort you made to lighten the picture,
but have to agree that your original choice was more pleasing.
The rock on the far side and water start to look washed out in the
lightened version.
Thanks,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 After multiple comments I have made a version that is lighter.  As I
 look at them, I still prefer the original.

 Here is a version lightened a little to bring out the water and
 surrounding rocks and trees:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-2.htm

 Original:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-1.htm

 Hi Bruce,

 I prefer the original too given the choices.

 Cheers,

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Re: Time torture tests four cameras

Plase, that's
'Will It Blend'
:-)

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:33 AM, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:
 Yes but can it blend

 Dave

 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 3:28 PM, paul stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net 
 wrote:
 Including the Pentax W-90. Not much of a test, but somewhat amusing.

 http://www.time.com/time/video/player/0,32068,85466556001_1989271,00.html?xid=aol-direct

 Paul
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Re: Leica M9

I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
darn good one with a great lens.

-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my M8's 
were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and Leica 
ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted the 
president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional photographer, 
you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The second 
M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the 
memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every 
different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site, and all 
gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery, waited a few 
minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which apparently rebooted the 
camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the 
camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error 
reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat 
in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.

Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney get 
good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't given the 
time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG except 
when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer service is 
absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my ass flamed as 
a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became less and less a 
forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types on the LUG now post 
incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or buildings.

Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to know 
anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera with a 
Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with only wide 
angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

Jeffery



On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.
 
 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.
 
 -- 
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
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Re: Leica M9

Jeffery,
Well thats a word or two to the wise...
Saves me a lot of money.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my M8's 
 were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and Leica 
 ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted the 
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional 
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't 
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. 
 Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I 
 bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's 
 site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery, 
 waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which apparently 
 rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted to shoot a 
 frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no memory 
 card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last year, the 
 M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory 
 card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney get 
 good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't given the 
 time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG except 
 when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer service is 
 absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my ass flamed 
 as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became less and less 
 a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types on the LUG now 
 post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to know 
 anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera with 
 a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with only wide 
 angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my M8's 
 were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and Leica 
 ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted the 
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional 
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't 
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I 
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the 
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible 
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed 
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which 
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted to 
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no 
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last 
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed 
 the memory card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney get 
 good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't given the 
 time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG except 
 when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer service 
 is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my ass 
 flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became less 
 and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types on 
 the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to know 
 anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera with 
 a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with only 
 wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread Steven Desjardins

This would have been my only option anyway.  ;-)

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my M8's 
 were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and Leica 
 ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted the 
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional 
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't 
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I 
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the 
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible 
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed 
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which 
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted to 
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no 
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last 
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed 
 the memory card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney get 
 good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't given the 
 time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG except 
 when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer service 
 is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my ass 
 flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became less 
 and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types on 
 the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to know 
 anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera with 
 a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with only 
 wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

 --
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 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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-- 
Steve Desjardins

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

2010-05-18 Thread David J Brooks

Very nice.

Dave

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in hand. Mocking Birds are 
 in full voice right now and quite active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches 
 emptying their Nyger, Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity 
 may have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid stride as he 
 turned to depart.
 Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the frame.(?)

 Comments?

 Jack

 http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503

 K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400






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http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

Pleased you commented, Dave.

Jack

--- On Tue, 5/18/10, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:36 AM
 Very nice.

 Dave

 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in
 hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now and quite
 active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying their Nyger,
 Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may
 have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid
 stride as he turned to depart.
  Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
 frame.(?)

  Comments?

  Jack

  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503

  K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400

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 directly above and follow the directions.

 -- 
 Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
 www.caughtinmotion.com
 http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
 York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

2010-05-18 Thread David J Brooks

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:37 AM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com wrote:
 Pleased you commented, Dave.

 Jack

No problem. I'm quite impressed with your 55-300

Dave

 --- On Tue, 5/18/10, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:36 AM
 Very nice.

 Dave

 On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in
 hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now and quite
 active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying their Nyger,
 Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may
 have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid
 stride as he turned to depart.
  Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
 frame.(?)
 
  Comments?
 
  Jack
 
  http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503
 
  K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400
 
 
 
 
 
 
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 Documenting Life in Rural Ontario.
 www.caughtinmotion.com
 http://brooksinthecountry.blogspot.com/
 York Region, Ontario, Canada

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Re: PESO Dusk Harbour Pano

2010/5/18 Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com:

 [...] handheld [...] from a moving harbour ferry ;-)

whoa... impressive... I had no idea this could be done at relative ease
very nice and being from the Waterkant myself I am drawn to harbour
views as it is
thanks for sharing
ecke

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

2010/5/17 Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com:
 Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in hand. Mocking Birds are 
 in full voice right now and quite active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches 
 emptying their Nyger, Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity 
 may have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid stride as he 
 turned to depart.
 Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the frame.(?)

Very nice capture, the raised claw looks to be coming from the
Ministry of Silly Walks =)
Thanks for sharing
Ecke

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Re: PESO: Should I?

2010/5/18 Madame RD romd...@orange.fr:

 I'd have thought :       should I  tell her/his mum or not ?   ..
 i'm wondering whether having her entire right arm in the picture would
 change something or not ?

better without IMVHO
have to admit though I find her hard to interprete
cheers
ecke

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Re: PESO: Should I?

2010-05-18 Thread Jerry in Arizona

Yes, absolutely.   I looked back at the original and her arm is all there.  
Guess I was more worried about perspective (I have a thing about keystoning 
doors and walls) and that caused her to lose her elbow.  I also should have 
resized the image.

Thanks again!

From: Madame RD romd...@orange.fr
To: pdml@pdml.net
Subject: Re: PESO: Should I?
Message-ID: 4bf25ca2.1030...@orange.fr
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed

Le 18/05/10 06:22, Jerry in Arizona a ?crit :
 Pentax K20D, DA 3.5-5.6 18-55 18-55mm

 Taken outside a tattoo/piercing parlor in San Francisco Haight Ashbury 
 district last December.  Was she trying to decide on a tattoo or being 
 pierced?

 Same place I had my ear pierced that day.

 http://i896.photobucket.com/albums/ac164/gelewis_2010/ColdSteelPiercingB.jpg

I'd have thought :      should I  tell her/his mum or not ?  
.. i'm wondering whether having her entire right arm in the picture 
would change something or not ?

dominique

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Re: PESO - Clementine Rainbow Round 2

I chime in with everone else and much prefer the original
At any rate, beautiful image
Thanks for sharing
Ecke

2010/5/18 Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com:
 Bruce,
 I appreciate the effort you made to lighten the picture,
 but have to agree that your original choice was more pleasing.
 The rock on the far side and water start to look washed out in the
 lightened version.
 Thanks,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:12 AM, Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 After multiple comments I have made a version that is lighter.  As I
 look at them, I still prefer the original.

 Here is a version lightened a little to bring out the water and
 surrounding rocks and trees:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-2.htm

 Original:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-1.htm

 Hi Bruce,

 I prefer the original too given the choices.

 Cheers,

 --
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 Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
 Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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Re: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread P N Stenquist



On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:


Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?



Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had  
used Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it  
for a few months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better  
camera, but Leica definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.

Paul

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan  
rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:

Jeffery,
Well thats a word or two to the wise...
Saves me a lot of money.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith  
jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this,  
but my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after  
about a week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails  
until I finally contacted the president of the company personally.  
If you aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about  
customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body  
would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed  
the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I  
bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible  
on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I  
removed the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the  
battery (which apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat  
this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was  
turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error  
reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last year, the  
M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed  
the memory card problem.


Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an  
attorney get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a  
teacher) aren't given the time of day. I have refrained from  
mentioning my problems on the LUG except when a pro photographer  
posts a message saying that Leica customer service is absolutely  
the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my ass flamed  
as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became  
less and less a forum about photography. The die hard  
photojournalist types on the LUG now post incessant photos of  
their dog, their flowers, or buildings.


Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't  
seem to know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you  
want a digital camera with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are  
great! If you can live with only wide angle to normal lenses, the  
GF1 is a wonderful little camera.


Jeffery



On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd  
enjoy

an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
darn good one with a great lens.

--
Godfrey
 godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Geso: Virginia's birthday party

2010/5/18 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
 A friend had a party for her 50th birthday last weekend and wanted me to do
 photos at it.

 It pretty much was my first time doing a studio shoot someplace other than
 my house, so I spent a lot of time figuring out what to bring, what I'd use
 etc.  It took me a while to get the lights dialed in, I didn't actually ever
 feel very comfortable with the lighting, but I got it close enough.

 A couple of the photos border on risque, but I don't thing anything is quite
 NSFW:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157624084878522/

 This shot of Josh and Sabrina answers the question of what he has on his
 mind:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617522133/in/set-72157624084878522/

I think you did fine. Like this shot of Sabrina best for her buoyant smile:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4618136588/in/set-72157624084878522/
Thanks for sharing
Ecke

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Re: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick

2010/5/18 Rob Studdert distudio.p...@gmail.com:
 On 18/05/2010, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:
 After the exhibit opening, many of us went to the roof for a look at 
 downtown.

 http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11021659size=lg

 Swt...

Especially the sky...
Cheers
Ecke

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Re: PESO: Chicago - Central Camera

2010/5/14  taylorjohn...@cablespeed.com:
 I had an absolute blast last week in Chicago!
 Huge thanks to Mark and Christine for all their hard work and dedication to 
 make
 the exhibit a reality. So good to meet you PDML'ers that were there. You all 
 are an
 awesome group of very talented folks.
 I haven't had much time to process many of the images I had taken, but here 
 is one.
 Hope too many aren't anti-HDR because that is what I'm into these days.
 I'll be posting some more shots and thoughts from the trip this weekend.

I do like the photo despite it being somewhat oversaturated. I would
like it even better without the guy in the LLH where oversaturation
really shows and biases my perception of the image as a whole. The
colors kinda remind me of what was called the urban acid effect and
was a fad some time ago but they really do work in that setting,
especially when juxtaposed to the rather old looking sign and the
since 1899 which both seem to call for b/w or sepia
Thanks for sharing
Ecke

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Re: Chicago


Then it's not really art, it's craft.

The converse is that just because you intend to create art, doesn't mean 
you've succeeded.  There's a lot of crap passed off as Art that's just 
crap.


On 5/18/2010 3:28 AM, Bob W wrote:

Yes, this is essentially the standard counter-argument by art theorists that
intention is a necessary part of art. It is usually framed in terms of naïve
  primitive painters, sculptors and so on, but vernacular photography works
equally well.

Bob
   

Every time I hear about intent I remember this piece of
Genius of Photography and the NY police crime scene shots.
There was no intent of making art, but this can be considered
art nonetheless.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-I8KljdoZM0

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 12:17 PM, P. J. Alling
webstertwenty...@gmail.com  wrote:
 

On 5/12/2010 10:09 AM, P N Stenquist wrote:
   

On May 12, 2010, at 9:19 AM, William Robb wrote:

 

- Original Message - From: paul stenquist
Subject: Re: Chicago



   
   

Invoking an emotional response is artistry in its highest form.
 

When Tom and I were driving to the hotel on Thursday, a station
wagon being driven in an erratic and dangerous manner invoked a
fairly extreme emotional response from both of us.
I hadn't thought of bad driving as being an art form before this
moment.

   

Well, it can be.
 
I think this is as good a place for my comment in this discussion.  
For it to actually be Art there has to be _describable_
   

intent on the
 

part of the /Artist/.  That usually, but doesn't always, requires a
certain level of craftsmanship.  So I guess intentional bad
   

driving is
 

Art, while unintentional bad driving isn't.  Extrapolate to
   

the rest
 

of the universe at your peril.

   


 

William Robb

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{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0
 

Courier New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to
   

Thunderbird 3.0 and
 

the interface subtly weird.\par }


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\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
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Re: Leica M9

Amazingly, the people on the LUG who had faulty M8 bodies made excuses for the 
camera (as in I have no problem as long as I remove and replace the battery 
before every shot, or Mine sometimes requires turning off and on a dozen 
times before the shutter will work.). The pro photographers on the LUG got 
great service. The amateur photographers are treated as nobodies. I had no 
difficulty finding others with bad M8 samples. I googled the words M8 shutter 
fault when my first body crapped out, and got numerous hits. When the second 
one had memory card problems, I had no trouble finding the fix, i.e., remove 
and replace the battery before every shot. 

Some of those who claim to never have had a problem are the same ones to say 
that when their M8/M9 died, the customer service was wonderful. How would they 
know that unless they had to return it.

I have never had a Pentax that died on me, and I have had five Pentax film 
cameras and now five Pentax digital cameras. And if a Pentax had died, it would 
not be something that kept me awake at night for weeks at a time. There is no 
worse feeling than paying off a $4,000 debt on a Visa for a non-functioning 
camera that is sitting in a drawer.

Jeffery


On May 18, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Tom C wrote:

 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my 
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and 
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional 
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't 
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I 
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the 
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible 
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed 
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which 
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted 
 to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the 
 no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared 
 last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have 
 fixed the memory card problem.
 
 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney 
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the 
 LUG except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica 
 customer service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had 
 and get my ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as 
 it became less and less a forum about photography. The die hard 
 photojournalist types on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, 
 their flowers, or buildings.
 
 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to know 
 anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera 
 with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with 
 only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.
 
 Jeffery
 
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
 
 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.
 
 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.
 
 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
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Re: PAW19 - May 17

2010/5/17 DagT li...@thrane.name:

 A Norwegian National holiday full of large crowds, flags, balloons and kids, 
 as some invisible who prefer something else

All hell breaking loose... =)
Cheers
Ecke

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Re: Leica M9

That IS amazing.  A bit of arrogance, eh?  'I paid so much much for
this camera if I admit it's a pice of junk I'm afraid I'll look
foolish'... well they were and they did.

Tom C.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:03 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 Amazingly, the people on the LUG who had faulty M8 bodies made excuses for 
 the camera (as in I have no problem as long as I remove and replace the 
 battery before every shot, or Mine sometimes requires turning off and on a 
 dozen times before the shutter will work.). The pro photographers on the LUG 
 got great service. The amateur photographers are treated as nobodies. I had 
 no difficulty finding others with bad M8 samples. I googled the words M8 
 shutter fault when my first body crapped out, and got numerous hits. When 
 the second one had memory card problems, I had no trouble finding the fix, 
 i.e., remove and replace the battery before every shot.

 Some of those who claim to never have had a problem are the same ones to say 
 that when their M8/M9 died, the customer service was wonderful. How would 
 they know that unless they had to return it.

 I have never had a Pentax that died on me, and I have had five Pentax film 
 cameras and now five Pentax digital cameras. And if a Pentax had died, it 
 would not be something that kept me awake at night for weeks at a time. There 
 is no worse feeling than paying off a $4,000 debt on a Visa for a 
 non-functioning camera that is sitting in a drawer.

 Jeffery


 On May 18, 2010, at 9:31 AM, Tom C wrote:

 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com wrote:
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com wrote:
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my 
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and 
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional 
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't 
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I 
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the 
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible 
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed 
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which 
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted 
 to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the 
 no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared 
 last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have 
 fixed the memory card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney 
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the 
 LUG except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica 
 customer service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had 
 and get my ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as 
 it became less and less a forum about photography. The die hard 
 photojournalist types on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, 
 their flowers, or buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to 
 know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital 
 camera with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live 
 with only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little 
 camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

Wow...

Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to
comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a crippling
defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very defective test
plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people at lower
levels realize there are problems but because management is determined
to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an
environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and
management ends up with the mess they deserve.

Tom C.


On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:

 On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:

 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?


 Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had used
 Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it for a few
 months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better camera, but Leica
 definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
 Paul

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted 
 to
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed
 the memory card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given
 the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG
 except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer
 service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get 
 my
 ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became
 less and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types
 on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or
 buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to
 know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital 
 camera
 with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with
 only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

Me too..as you may have gathered. It's certainly not the last word, but can't 
deny it can surprise at times. If Pentax were to produce a DA* 300 with the 
relative attributes assigned to the DA*200, my hankering level might be at 
DEFCOM 1. 8=) (I would, however, keep the DA 55~300.

Jack

--- On Tue, 5/18/10, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:39 AM
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:37 AM,
 Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
 wrote:
  Pleased you commented, Dave.
 
  Jack
 
 No problem. I'm quite impressed with your 55-300
 
 Dave
 
  --- On Tue, 5/18/10, David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
  From: David J Brooks pentko...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
  Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:36 AM
  Very nice.
 
  Dave
 
  On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 5:02 PM, Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com
  wrote:
   Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with
 K20 in
  hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now
 and quite
  active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying
 their Nyger,
  Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that
 activity may
  have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns,
 in mid
  stride as he turned to depart.
   Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
  frame.(?)
  
   Comments?
  
   Jack
  
   http://photolightimages.com/aspupload/detail.asp?ID=503
  
   K20, da55~...@300mm, f/8, 1/1500, ISO 400
  
  
  
  
  
  
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Re: PESO: Fence Dance

May have been tilting backwards from eating fermenting cherries. hic!

Jack

--- On Tue, 5/18/10, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote:

 From: eckinator eckina...@gmail.com
 Subject: Re: PESO: Fence Dance
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
 Date: Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 7:43 AM
 2010/5/17 Jack Davis jdavi...@yahoo.com:
  Was still reclining on the patio Chaise with K20 in
 hand. Mocking Birds are in full voice right now and quite
 active. We have 12 to 20 Goldfinches emptying their Nyger,
 Nyjer, Niger feeder at any one time and that activity may
 have attracted this party. Got him, between yawns, in mid
 stride as he turned to depart.
  Really heavy crop. Possibly a quarter of the
 frame.(?)

 Very nice capture, the raised claw looks to be coming from
 the
 Ministry of Silly Walks =)
 Thanks for sharing
 Ecke

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Re: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread Adam Maas

It's pretty clear that Leica shipped a camera with known fatal flaws
with the M8. Some of the flaws have been solved, others have not and
cannot be.

The interesting thing is how Leica handled reviews of the M8 on
introduction, there were some severe fireworks over Leica taking
offense to reviewers stating the obvious.

-Adam

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:
 Wow...

 Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to
 comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a crippling
 defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very defective test
 plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people at lower
 levels realize there are problems but because management is determined
 to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an
 environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and
 management ends up with the mess they deserve.

 Tom C.


 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net 
 wrote:

 On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:

 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?


 Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had used
 Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it for a few
 months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better camera, but Leica
 definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
 Paul

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.

 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com
 wrote:

 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted 
 to
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have 
 fixed
 the memory card problem.

 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given
 the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG
 except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer
 service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get 
 my
 ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became
 less and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist 
 types
 on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or
 buildings.

 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to
 know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital 
 camera
 with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with
 only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

 Jeffery



 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.

 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

I think that Leica was at a crossroads due to digital catching on among pros. 
They obviously felt that they waited too long to enter the digital world and 
were making up for lost time (and revenue). It would not have been so much of a 
problem had they owned up to the problems and fixed them quickly and quietly. I 
do think they were overwhelmed by the large number of returns of defective 
cameras, and Leica USA chose to simply ignore non-professionals (after all, an 
oil spill that damages a commercial fisherman is much more of a problem than an 
oil spill that damages a weekend fisherman). But I spent the same amount of 
money and had the same warranty. Perhaps I should have created some fake 
letterhead stationary when writing to them.

Tony Rose of popflash has told me that he will intervene on my behalf if I have 
future problems with the M8, but I simply stopped using it. I do appreciate 
Tony's help, as I didn't buy the camera from him. I have been told that the 
fellow who ignored all of my phone calls and emails at Leica USA has been 
reassigned to other duties, so I obviously wasn't the only amateur shooter who 
was ignored when his camera died after a week. So, things may be better at 
Leica USA now, but I'll never buy another Leica product as long as I live (and 
I have sunk over $25,000 into that company over the years). After the 50th time 
you are told He just stepped away from his desk, you know what it is to be 
treated like an untouchable.

Jeffery


On May 18, 2010, at 10:05 AM, Tom C wrote:

 Wow...
 
 Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to
 comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a crippling
 defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very defective test
 plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people at lower
 levels realize there are problems but because management is determined
 to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an
 environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and
 management ends up with the mess they deserve.
 
 Tom C.
 
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net 
 wrote:
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:
 
 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?
 
 
 Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had used
 Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it for a few
 months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better camera, but Leica
 definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
 Paul
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted 
 to
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have 
 fixed
 the memory card problem.
 
 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given
 the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG
 except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer
 service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get 
 my
 ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became
 less and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist 
 types
 on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or
 buildings.
 
 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to
 know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital 
 camera
 with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with
 only wide angle to normal lenses, the

Re: PESO Dusk Harbour Pano

You are a hateful man, I cannot afford another camera at this time.  
(Also I don't /need/ to try to learn this particular skill).  Who do you 
work for anyway?  Beelzebub?


On 5/18/2010 9:09 AM, Bob Sullivan wrote:

Lovely image Rob.  From amoving ferry?  Impressive!
Why 2 MP jpegs?  Buffer size in the K-x?
You'll be giving Boris a run for it with the A50/1.2.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 5:05 AM, Rob Studdertdistudio.p...@gmail.com  wrote:
   

Hi Team,

Another pano shot last weekend. The image was captured hand held using
K-x and smc PENTAX-A 50mm F1.2 f4 1/25, ISO 250 and assembled using
Autopano rendered in a cylindrical projection. The source files
consisted of 12 portrait 2MP in-camera JPG files. The output file
contrast was modified using curves then reduced to 50% of its original
size.

Still not sure about the image brightness, it's always a difficult
task to render mixed lighting at dusk. It's got a bit of a tilt issue
but still it stands as a testament to Pentax SR given that it was shot
from a moving harbour ferry ;-)

http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~aglcnews/temp/Pano-IMGX01740sm.jpg
(about 3MB and yes you will have to scroll ;-)

Hope you enjoy.

Cheers,


--
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Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio

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--
{\rtf1\ansi\ansicpg1252\deff0\deflang1033{\fonttbl{\f0\fnil\fcharset0 Courier 
New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: Leica M9

Like green ghosting? Like the need to put an expensive UV/IR filter on any lens 
you plan to use on the M8? And the outrageous prices they were charging to 
upgrade the lenses with some black stripes painted on the base so the camera 
would recognize the lens you were using? 


On May 18, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

 It's pretty clear that Leica shipped a camera with known fatal flaws
 with the M8. Some of the flaws have been solved, others have not and
 cannot be.
 
 The interesting thing is how Leica handled reviews of the M8 on
 introduction, there were some severe fireworks over Leica taking
 offense to reviewers stating the obvious.
 
 -Adam
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:
 Wow...
 
 Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to
 comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a crippling
 defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very defective test
 plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people at lower
 levels realize there are problems but because management is determined
 to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an
 environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and
 management ends up with the mess they deserve.
 
 Tom C.
 
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquist pnstenqu...@comcast.net 
 wrote:
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:
 
 Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
 was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
 disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
 owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?
 
 
 Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had used
 Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it for a few
 months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better camera, but Leica
 definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
 Paul
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan rf.sulli...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 Jeffery,
 Well thats a word or two to the wise...
 Saves me a lot of money.
 Regards,  Bob S.
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com
 wrote:
 
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my
 M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, 
 and
 Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted 
 the
 president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional
 photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't
 exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I
 used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the
 camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as 
 compatible
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed
 the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I 
 wanted to
 shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the 
 no
 memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have 
 fixed
 the memory card problem.
 
 Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney
 get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't 
 given
 the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG
 except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer
 service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and 
 get my
 ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became
 less and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist 
 types
 on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or
 buildings.
 
 Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to
 know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital 
 camera
 with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with
 only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.
 
 Jeffery
 
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:
 
 I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
 an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
 warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.
 
 Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
 darn good one with a great lens.
 
 --
 Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com
 
 --
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 PDML@pdml.net
 http://pdml.net/mailman/listinfo/pdml_pdml.net
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Re: Leica M9

I think it would actually work without the digital encoding.  The rest 
however...


On 5/18/2010 11:50 AM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Like green ghosting? Like the need to put an expensive UV/IR filter on any lens 
you plan to use on the M8? And the outrageous prices they were charging to 
upgrade the lenses with some black stripes painted on the base so the camera 
would recognize the lens you were using?


On May 18, 2010, at 10:18 AM, Adam Maas wrote:

   

It's pretty clear that Leica shipped a camera with known fatal flaws
with the M8. Some of the flaws have been solved, others have not and
cannot be.

The interesting thing is how Leica handled reviews of the M8 on
introduction, there were some severe fireworks over Leica taking
offense to reviewers stating the obvious.

-Adam

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Tom Ccaka...@gmail.com  wrote:
 

Wow...

Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to
comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a crippling
defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very defective test
plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people at lower
levels realize there are problems but because management is determined
to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an
environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and
management ends up with the mess they deserve.

Tom C.


On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquistpnstenqu...@comcast.net  wrote:
   

On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:

 

Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely the problem
was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a
disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) Leica
owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?

   

Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of mine who had used
Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He struggled with it for a few
months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a much better camera, but Leica
definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
Paul

 

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivanrf.sulli...@gmail.com
wrote:
   

Jeffery,
Well thats a word or two to the wise...
Saves me a lot of money.
Regards,  Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smithjsmith...@gmail.com
wrote:
 

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but my
M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a week, and
Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I finally contacted the
president of the company personally. If you aren't a professional
photographer, you can forget about customer service from Leica. You don't
exist. The second M8 body would not recognize any of the memory cards I
used. Leica blamed the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the
camera. I bought every different brand of memory card listed as compatible
on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed
the battery, waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I wanted to
shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned itself off, the no
memory card error reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to have fixed
the memory card problem.

Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an attorney
get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a teacher) aren't given
the time of day. I have refrained from mentioning my problems on the LUG
except when a pro photographer posts a message saying that Leica customer
service is absolutely the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my
ass flamed as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became
less and less a forum about photography. The die hard photojournalist types
on the LUG now post incessant photos of their dog, their flowers, or
buildings.

Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't seem to
know anything whatsoever about digital cameras. If you want a digital camera
with a Leica lens, buy a Panasonic! They are great! If you can live with
only wide angle to normal lenses, the GF1 is a wonderful little camera.

Jeffery



On May 18, 2010, at 8:22 AM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

   

I worked with Leica RF cameras on and off from 1969 to 2002. I'd enjoy
an M4-P again, but I  know I'd never work with film enough again to
warrant the expense. I'd enjoy an M8 or M9 now.

Have fun with it. Although it's expensive, it's just a camera ... a
darn good one with a great lens.

--
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Geso: Virginia's birthday party



On May 18, 2010, at 7:54 AM, eckinator wrote:


2010/5/18 Larry Colen l...@red4est.com:
A friend had a party for her 50th birthday last weekend and wanted  
me to do

photos at it.

It pretty much was my first time doing a studio shoot someplace  
other than
my house, so I spent a lot of time figuring out what to bring, what  
I'd use
etc.  It took me a while to get the lights dialed in, I didn't  
actually ever

feel very comfortable with the lighting, but I got it close enough.

A couple of the photos border on risque, but I don't thing anything  
is quite

NSFW:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157624084878522/

This shot of Josh and Sabrina answers the question of what he has  
on his

mind:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617522133/in/set-72157624084878522/


I think you did fine.


Thanks


Like this shot of Sabrina best for her buoyant smile:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4618136588/in/set-72157624084878522/


Sabrina was a wonderful subject, and had great chemistry on camera  
with her husband.  They were a lot of fun to photograph.



Thanks for sharing
Ecke

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Larry Colen l...@red4est.com sent from i4est





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GESO: Augenblick Chicago 2010

2010-05-18 Thread Jay Taylor


Here are a few images from my short visit to Chicago last week.
The gallery opening was fantastic as was the company of the PDML'ers  
there. I'm so very glad to have met you guys and it was a pleasure  
hanging out with you.
Special thanks again to Mark and Christine for their huge part in  
making the exhibition a reality. I really wish I could have stayed  
past Saturday afternoon, but I needed to be home for Mother's Day.  I  
really need to spend about a week in Chicago to see everything.


Ann, Tom C, Will Robb and I went out for pizza at Pizzaria Uno after  
the opening which was fantastic!


The Eggelston exhibit on Saturday was interesting. Much of  it had me  
scratching my head, but there were a handful of prints that I thought  
were really superb.
I had a great time and was very glad to have been able to make the  
trip. Thanks everyone!


http://www.jaytaylorphotography.com/Travel/Chicago-PDML-2010/12194534_MBhoP#868042130_je84c

JayT

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Re: PESO-Clementine Rainbow

2010-05-18 Thread Bruce Dayton

Hello Rob,

You bring up a good point.  I was reading a thread on HDR recently
and that was one of the issues brought up - basically
that the compression of the dynamic range of an HDR image causes it to
look unnatural, and for some people that causes them to reject or
dislike it.  Once could argue that exposure that causes you to
misinterpret the setting could have the same effect.

--
Bruce


Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 1:01:31 AM, you wrote:

RS On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 I guess it begs the question...Does it really matter whether it was a
 daytime or nighttime shot?  If a take a shot at night and expose it
 to look more like daylight or take a shot in the daytime and expose
 it so it looks like night...

RS It's fine so long as there's limited ambiguity in the case of
RS otherwise un-manipulated images. For instance if I make a shot of my
RS back yard by moonlight it generally looks quite strange as often due
RS to its position in the sky the moon casts shadows that the sun
RS couldn't.

 Was the shot pleasing?  I will certainly play around with it to see
 what it looks like more 'daylight', but I suspect you will get to see
 nice greenish water instead of the strong contrast.

RS It was pleasing, I appreciated the composition and content but due to
RS the ambiguity developed by the exposure wondered quite what was going
RS on, I guess for a straight landscape that's a little unusual.

RS I did have a play and the water does show green but the contrast can
RS be maintained and the image still remains strong.

RS -- 
RS Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)
RS Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
RS Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio




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Re: PESO - Clementine Rainbow Round 2

2010-05-18 Thread Bruce Dayton


RS On 18/05/2010, Bruce Dayton bkday...@daytonphoto.com wrote:
 After multiple comments I have made a version that is lighter.  As I
 look at them, I still prefer the original.

 Here is a version lightened a little to bring out the water and
 surrounding rocks and trees:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-2.htm

 Original:
 http://www.daytonphoto.com/PAW/bkdphoto_00373-1.htm

RS Hi Bruce,

RS I prefer the original too given the choices.

RS Cheers,

RS -- 
RS Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)

I appreciate you looking and commenting - it is always good to really
look at an image see if there are things that can be done to it in
post to bring it to full potential.  I think in this case, the water
just didn't have anything in it to strengthen the picture other than
serving as an ominous border to the spillway.

--
Bruce




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Re: PESO Dusk Harbour Pano

2010-05-18 Thread Bruce Dayton

Wonderful pano - you have the techniques down pretty well to produce
even in less than ideal conditions.

-- 
Best regards,
Bruce


Tuesday, May 18, 2010, 3:05:34 AM, you wrote:

RS Hi Team,

RS Another pano shot last weekend. The image was captured hand held using
RS K-x and smc PENTAX-A 50mm F1.2 f4 1/25, ISO 250 and assembled using
RS Autopano rendered in a cylindrical projection. The source files
RS consisted of 12 portrait 2MP in-camera JPG files. The output file
RS contrast was modified using curves then reduced to 50% of its original
RS size.

RS Still not sure about the image brightness, it's always a difficult
RS task to render mixed lighting at dusk. It's got a bit of a tilt issue
RS but still it stands as a testament to Pentax SR given that it was shot
RS from a moving harbour ferry ;-)

RS http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~aglcnews/temp/Pano-IMGX01740sm.jpg
RS (about 3MB and yes you will have to scroll ;-)

RS Hope you enjoy.

RS Cheers,


RS -- 
RS Rob Studdert (Digital  Image Studio)
RS Tel: +61-418-166-870 UTC +10 Hours
RS Gmail, eBay, Skype, Twitter, Facebook, Picasa: distudio




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Re: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick


The show's not over 'til the fat lady sings.

From: Ann Sanfedele
I think he meant Ophra  ;-) 

Nice shot Tom,  steady hands or you used the railing   


ann
(working on her GESO)

paul stenquist wrote:


On May 17, 2010, at 9:11 PM, Jack Davis wrote:

  

Did you happen to run in to Opera?

Jack



He wouldn't have passed the Opera on that route. The Lyric Opera House of 
Chicago is on North Wacker.
Paul

--- On Mon, 5/17/10, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:



After the exhibit opening, many of us
went to the roof for a look at downtown.

http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11021659size=lg




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Re: PESO: Chicago - Central Camera (Bob Sullivan)

2010-05-18 Thread Jay Taylor

On Tue May 18  1:25 , Bob Sullivan wrote:

Jay,
That's the Central Camera I know and love.
Did you catch it at open or close?
It is such a funky location under the 'EL' tracks,
and your colors compliment that uniqueness.
I hope you went inside as well.
Regards,  Bob S.


Thanks Bob,
Unfortunately I didn't have time to step inside. They were near closing and I 
was trying to find my 
way to the Brown line to head up for the exhibition. Next time I'm in town I'll 
have to go check it 
out.

JayT

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Re: Leica M9

There's little excuse for BS like what Jeffery's been through, or for
the obvious flaws in the M8, but the local Leica rep is someone I've
known for a good many years and I'd have to say that Jeffery's
customer service experience doesn't seem typical. I never had any
difficulties with service and support from Leica USA, and haven't with
their digital products either. (I haven't owned any myself, but I've
helped several of my clients who did have issues with their cameras
... a quick call to Leica USA or Tom put a solution in the works
immediately and all problems were taken care of to everyone's
satisfaction.)

It's always sad to hear reports of such a mess, but I hear them about
every manufacturer from time to time. Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony,
Pentax ... all of them. I'm just glad I've only rarely needed service.
;-)
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread Boris Liberman

Gosh, Jeffery, thank you. I am having eye opening experience reading 
your posts on this matter.


Boris

On 5/18/2010 6:03 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Amazingly, the people on the LUG who had faulty M8 bodies made
excuses for the camera (as in I have no problem as long as I remove
and replace the battery before every shot, or Mine sometimes
requires turning off and on a dozen times before the shutter will
work.). The pro photographers on the LUG got great service. The
amateur photographers are treated as nobodies. I had no difficulty
finding others with bad M8 samples. I googled the words M8 shutter
fault when my first body crapped out, and got numerous hits. When
the second one had memory card problems, I had no trouble finding the
fix, i.e., remove and replace the battery before every shot.

Some of those who claim to never have had a problem are the same ones
to say that when their M8/M9 died, the customer service was
wonderful. How would they know that unless they had to return it.

I have never had a Pentax that died on me, and I have had five Pentax
film cameras and now five Pentax digital cameras. And if a Pentax had
died, it would not be something that kept me awake at night for weeks
at a time. There is no worse feeling than paying off a $4,000 debt on
a Visa for a non-functioning camera that is sitting in a drawer.

Jeffery


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Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange


On 5/18/2010 2:01 AM, Rob Studdert wrote:

On 18/05/2010, Larry Colenl...@red4est.com  wrote:

I was asked to do some photo sessions at a party this weekend.
I tried to take care not to blow out the red channel when I was setting the
exposure, but when I looked at the photos in LR on my mac the reds seemed
somewhat orangey, and the dayglow pink and the dayglow orange had lost a lot
of their pop and their saturation.

Was this a case of my misreading the histogram, or the histogram being based
on JPEG and not RAW so it wasn't really showing the red channel blowing out?
  In future situations, should I leave more headroom in the exposure?


Try not to saturate as always when shooting dayglow type colours but
don't expect anything but an approximation of their appearance in post
processed images. Firstly I'm not sure if the colours actually fit in
the gamut of the camera but even if they did then they would need to
be compressed in order to fit into the gamut of the monitor. How the
CMS on the target system manages this I'm not sure, I would expect
that it would apply a perceptual rendering intent.


Thanks. I've done other shoots with the same dayglo webbing and had it 
work just fine.  Last night I went through and processed my best of 
shots from the night and I noticed that it almost looked like one of my 
strobes was causing the webbing to fluoresce and the other wasn't:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4618116206/in/set-72157624084826162/




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RE: PESO Dusk Harbour Pano


From: Rob Studdert

Hi Team,

Another pano shot last weekend. The image was captured hand held using
K-x and smc PENTAX-A 50mm F1.2 f4 1/25, ISO 250 and assembled using
Autopano rendered in a cylindrical projection. The source files
consisted of 12 portrait 2MP in-camera JPG files. The output file
contrast was modified using curves then reduced to 50% of its original
size.

Still not sure about the image brightness, it's always a difficult
task to render mixed lighting at dusk. It's got a bit of a tilt issue
but still it stands as a testament to Pentax SR given that it was shot
from a moving harbour ferry  ;-) 


http://home.swiftdsl.com.au/~aglcnews/temp/Pano-IMGX01740sm.jpg
(about 3MB and yes you will have to scroll  ;-) 


Hope you enjoy.


If I had not read your tech details to begin with, just come at the 
image cold, I would have thought I'd finally found an HDR done right.


VERY well lit. Well done.

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RE: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick

2010-05-18 Thread Chris Mitchell

Tom C wrote
 Subject: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick
 
 After the exhibit opening, many of us went to the roof for a look at
 downtown.
 
 http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11021659size=lg
 

A good night shot Tom. I'm disappointed that I managed to get monopolised by
some gallery goers and didn't get a chance to use the tripod too. 

However, they were interested in buying my print so it was worth spending
time chatting them up. I'm still waiting to hear whether they did actually
buy though - wonder if Bob saw any more red dots when he was there at the
weekend?

Chris



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RE: Geso: Virginia's birthday party

2010-05-18 Thread Chris Mitchell

Larry Colen wrote
 Subject: Geso: Virginia's birthday party
 
 A friend had a party for her 50th birthday last weekend and wanted me
 to do photos at it.
 
 It pretty much was my first time doing a studio shoot someplace
 other than my house, so I spent a lot of time figuring out what to
 bring, what I'd use etc.  It took me a while to get the lights dialed
 in, I didn't actually ever feel very comfortable with the lighting,
 but I got it close enough.
 
 A couple of the photos border on risque, but I don't thing anything is
 quite NSFW:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157624084878522/
 
 This shot of Josh and Sabrina answers the question of what he has on
 his mind:
 http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617522133/in/set-72157624084878522/
 
There are some good portraits here Larry. Assuming the main one is Virginia,
she should be very happy with her birthday shot. The Josh and Sabrina one is
great fun too. Burlesque rather than NSFW.

Some do suffer from darkness on the right hand side - perhaps a reflector
would be a useful addition to your lighting kit.

You do know some interesting people, don't you? They make good subjects.

Chris 



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Re: Leica M9

2010-05-18 Thread Boris Liberman


On 5/18/2010 8:20 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

It's always sad to hear reports of such a mess, but I hear them about
every manufacturer from time to time. Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony,
Pentax ... all of them. I'm just glad I've only rarely needed service.
;-)


Godfrey, there seems to be a minor difference in Jeffery's case. You 
see, it seems from what he's saying and what has been written on the net 
that Leica M8 was, how to put it, half baked when it hit the market. 
Then, it was only reasonable to expect relatively many customer support 
cases, especially given the fact that Leica is not mass produced like, 
say Canon or Nikon. And then, each case such as Jeffery's gets far more 
resounding resonance than just one or two disgruntled Nikon or Canon 
customers.


Say, I had a problem with Pentax Israel where they couldn't properly 
tune my Katz Eye focusing screen even after I brought them the set of 
original shims. However:


1. They were forthcoming.
2. The offered a way out albeit expensive one.
3. They actually did not hesitate to indicate that I could do it on my 
own and if I fail they will be glad to help me to put the original 
screen in place.
4. They did not take from me any money beside the actual work where they 
measured what thickness of shim would be necessary to properly tune my 
Katz Eye screen.


So, although I did not solve the problem with Pentax Israel but rather 
with the help of one of my co-workers, I have nothing to put at fault 
with them. In fact, that company, Karat is also an official Canon 
representative in Israel and all my friends who consider buying Canon 
gear always get my wholehearted recommendation to buy a camera that will 
be serviced by Karat. Karat has been really good to me.


What Jeffery describes seems pretty much the opposite.

Boris

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Re: Geso: Virginia's birthday party


On 5/18/2010 10:37 AM, Chris Mitchell wrote:

Larry Colen wrote

Subject: Geso: Virginia's birthday party

A friend had a party for her 50th birthday last weekend and wanted me
to do photos at it.

It pretty much was my first time doing a studio shoot someplace
other than my house, so I spent a lot of time figuring out what to
bring, what I'd use etc.  It took me a while to get the lights dialed
in, I didn't actually ever feel very comfortable with the lighting,
but I got it close enough.

A couple of the photos border on risque, but I don't thing anything is
quite NSFW:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/sets/72157624084878522/

This shot of Josh and Sabrina answers the question of what he has on
his mind:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617522133/in/set-72157624084878522/


There are some good portraits here Larry.


Thanks a bunch.

 Assuming the main one is Virginia,

she should be very happy with her birthday shot.


This is Virginia:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4617524105/in/set-72157624084878522/

It was funny, she wandered in when I was between subjects, so I jumped 
her to the front of the line, took a couple test shots, saw that they 
looked good and went with that.  She asked me what she needed to do, and 
I said that these were great. She was going to change into something 
else but never actually got around to it.


 The Josh and Sabrina one is

great fun too. Burlesque rather than NSFW.


Yes, that might be a better word. But some workplaces might frown on 
even those.  Here's her website btw:

http://sabrinamodelle.com/



Some do suffer from darkness on the right hand side - perhaps a reflector
would be a useful addition to your lighting kit.


Yes, I tried using the umbrella on the other strobe as a reflector, I 
also tried hanging a reflector on the umbrella on a couple of the shots. 
It's definitely something I need to work on.


Hopefully, in the near future I'll be able to have both time and models 
to practice on.




You do know some interesting people, don't you? They make good subjects.


It does make it easier to get interesting photos when the subjects are a 
bit quirky themselves.




Chris






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Re: Leica M9


From: Jeffery Smith

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.


Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or 
direct from Leica USA?


If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever 
I bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for 
one that wouldn't work at all from the get-go.


The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they 
don't it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for 
making good.


I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something 
DOES go wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in 
the eye while I'm yelling at him.


I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a 
problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the 
difficulties of trying to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  
me) across 9 time zones by email. They did finally understood the 
problem and got it sorted out for me.


I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find 
what I wanted locally.


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Re: Leica M9

Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the M8. I 
bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive dead on 
arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.


On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

 From: Jeffery Smith
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
 my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
 week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
 finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
 aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
 service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
 recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
 cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
 different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
 and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
 waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
 wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
 itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
 firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
 firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.
 
 Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or 
 direct from Leica USA?
 
 If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever I 
 bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one that 
 wouldn't work at all from the get-go.
 
 The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they don't 
 it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for making good.
 
 I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES go 
 wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye 
 while I'm yelling at him.
 
 I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a 
 problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the 
 difficulties of trying to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  me) 
 across 9 time zones by email. They did finally understood the problem and got 
 it sorted out for me.
 
 I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find what I 
 wanted locally.
 
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Re: Leica M9

From: John Sessoms

From: Jeffery Smith

 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
 my M8's were anything but reliable. 

If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever 
I bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for 
one that wouldn't work at all from the get-go.

The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they 
don't it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for 
making good.

PS: And a camera that cost $6000 or more that I paid for with VISA ...

*FIRST* thing I'd do is dispute the charge with whoever issued the card. 
The dealer, manufacturer or whoever is going to get a lot more 
reasonable about fixing the problem when they find out they ain't gonna' 
get their money until they do.

SECOND thing is get whoever in your state Attorney General's office 
handles consumer protection involved.

No way I'd let a $6000 camera just sit in a drawer unused. If it's 
unusable, it's going back and I'm getting a full refund.

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Re: Leica M9


Twenty exposures is DOA in my book.

On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the M8. I 
bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive dead on 
arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.


On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

   

From: Jeffery Smith
 

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.
   

Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or direct 
from Leica USA?

If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever I 
bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one that 
wouldn't work at all from the get-go.

The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they don't 
it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for making good.

I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES go 
wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye while 
I'm yelling at him.

I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a problem 
fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the difficulties of trying 
to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  me) across 9 time zones by 
email. They did finally understood the problem and got it sorted out for me.

I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find what I 
wanted locally.

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\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
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Re: Leica M9

BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how long exactly), 
and a couple hundred exposures before giving you a problem with a 
return.  Dead after 20 exposures, is well within that return policy.


On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the M8. I 
bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive dead on 
arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.


On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:

   

From: Jeffery Smith
 

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.
   

Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or direct 
from Leica USA?

If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever I 
bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one that 
wouldn't work at all from the get-go.

The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they don't 
it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for making good.

I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES go 
wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye while 
I'm yelling at him.

I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a problem 
fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the difficulties of trying 
to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  me) across 9 time zones by 
email. They did finally understood the problem and got it sorted out for me.

I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find what I 
wanted locally.

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New;}}
\viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the 
interface subtly weird.\par
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Re: Leica M9

We're talking about a spilled milk issue though, aren't we? I doubt
you could even do so much as sue them and win now =(
Cheers
Ecke

2010/5/18 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:
 BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how long exactly), and a
 couple hundred exposures before giving you a problem with a return.  Dead
 after 20 exposures, is well within that return policy.

 On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

 Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the
 M8. I bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive
 dead on arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.


 On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:



 From: Jeffery Smith


 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
 my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
 week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
 finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
 aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
 service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
 recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
 cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
 different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
 and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
 waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
 wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
 itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
 firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
 firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.


 Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or
 direct from Leica USA?

 If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever
 I bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one
 that wouldn't work at all from the get-go.

 The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they
 don't it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for
 making good.

 I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES
 go wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye
 while I'm yelling at him.

 I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a
 problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the
 difficulties of trying to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  me)
 across 9 time zones by email. They did finally understood the problem and
 got it sorted out for me.

 I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find
 what I wanted locally.

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 PDML@pdml.net
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 Courier New;}}
 \viewkind4\uc1\pard\f0\fs20 I've just upgraded to Thunderbird 3.0 and the
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Re: Leica M9

Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early problems with the 
M8 were probably abundantly obvious to BH at the time. It certainly was well 
documented on the web that many cameras were breaking down very quickly. There 
is an adage that you should never buy the first version of anything, and that 
seems to have applied to the M8.


On May 18, 2010, at 1:25 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

 BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how long exactly), and a 
 couple hundred exposures before giving you a problem with a return.  Dead 
 after 20 exposures, is well within that return policy.
 
 On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the M8. 
 I bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive dead 
 on arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
 
   
 From: Jeffery Smith
 
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
 my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
 week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
 finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
 aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
 service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
 recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
 cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
 different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
 and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
 waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
 wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
 itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
 firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
 firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.
   
 Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or 
 direct from Leica USA?
 
 If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever I 
 bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one 
 that wouldn't work at all from the get-go.
 
 The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they 
 don't it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for 
 making good.
 
 I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES 
 go wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye 
 while I'm yelling at him.
 
 I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a 
 problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the 
 difficulties of trying to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  
 me) across 9 time zones by email. They did finally understood the problem 
 and got it sorted out for me.
 
 I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find what 
 I wanted locally.
 
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Re: Leica M9

That's why I'm using a K-7 instead of an M8.  :-)

Jeffery
On May 18, 2010, at 1:40 PM, eckinator wrote:

 We're talking about a spilled milk issue though, aren't we? I doubt
 you could even do so much as sue them and win now =(
 Cheers
 Ecke
 
 2010/5/18 P. J. Alling webstertwenty...@gmail.com:
 BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how long exactly), and a
 couple hundred exposures before giving you a problem with a return.  Dead
 after 20 exposures, is well within that return policy.
 
 On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 
 Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the
 M8. I bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive
 dead on arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
 
 
 
 From: Jeffery Smith
 
 
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
 my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
 week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
 finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
 aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
 service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
 recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
 cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
 different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
 and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
 waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
 apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
 wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
 itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
 firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
 firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.
 
 
 Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or
 direct from Leica USA?
 
 If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever
 I bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one
 that wouldn't work at all from the get-go.
 
 The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they
 don't it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for
 making good.
 
 I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES
 go wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye
 while I'm yelling at him.
 
 I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a
 problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the
 difficulties of trying to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer  
 me)
 across 9 time zones by email. They did finally understood the problem and
 got it sorted out for me.
 
 I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find
 what I wanted locally.
 
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Re: Leica M9

2010/5/18 Jeffery Smith jsmith...@gmail.com:
 Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early problems with the 
 M8 were probably abundantly obvious to BH at the time. It certainly was well 
 documented on the web that many cameras were breaking down very quickly. 
 There is an adage that you should never buy the first version of anything, 
 and that seems to have applied to the M8.

I'd think if that was a fact proven by numbers you may just have a
chance. If your lawyer can hold his breath longer than theirs, that is
:( I have no idea about consumer rights in the US but over here if you
don't win out of court, you ain't going anywhere in court.
Cheers
Ecke

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RE: Leica M9

The flaws are not fatal, either for the camera or for the photographer. They
are serious flaws, but if you bite the bullet and buy the IR filters it's a
good camera. Not the camera it should be, as a Leica, but still it's the
camera I use the most.

Jeffery seems to have suffered from piss-poor service from his retailer, and
perhaps also from Leica USA. The service is better over here. I obtained my
M8 by trading in a lot of Contax film gear. The M8 was (very lightly) used
and without any faults (other than being an M8!). However, a friend spilt
beer on it a few weeks after I got it, which made the shutter release
practically unusable. I took it to the dealer (The Classic Camera, Pied Bull
Yard, London http://www.theclassiccamera.com/), told them what had
happened and they took it in for repair. I expected a hefty bill for it, but
when I picked it up it had been completely overhauled and fixed in Solms at
no charge.

The M9 appears to be the camera the M8 should have been. I've played with
one, and an S2, at Leica's showroom in London, which is a great place for
the Leica fan and shows the good side of their customer service.

Bob

 
 It's pretty clear that Leica shipped a camera with known 
 fatal flaws with the M8. Some of the flaws have been solved, 
 others have not and cannot be.
 
 The interesting thing is how Leica handled reviews of the M8 
 on introduction, there were some severe fireworks over Leica 
 taking offense to reviewers stating the obvious.
 
 -Adam
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:05 AM, Tom C caka...@gmail.com wrote:
  Wow...
 
  Thanks. So it seems they totally dropped the ball.  What's hard to 
  comprehend is how the camera made it through QA with such a 
 crippling 
  defect.  It sounds to me like little QA or a very very 
 defective test 
  plan. Or as sometimes happens in the software world, people 
 at lower 
  levels realize there are problems but because management is 
 determined 
  to meet a farcical release date and at the same time has created an 
  environment in which people fear to speak up, plans go forward and 
  management ends up with the mess they deserve.
 
  Tom C.
 
 
  On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:52 AM, P N Stenquist 
 pnstenqu...@comcast.net wrote:
 
  On May 18, 2010, at 10:31 AM, Tom C wrote:
 
  Makes Pentax sound wonderful by comparison.  But surely 
 the problem 
  was not limited to Jeffrey's camera, so there's somewhat of a 
  disconnect for me. Wouldn't just about every (or certainly many) 
  Leica
  owner(s) that paid $6K for their tool be up in arms?
 
 
  Many M8 owners were up in arms. A pro shooter friend of 
 mine who had 
  used Leica film cameras for years bought an M8. He 
 struggled with it 
  for a few months, then sold it. Apparently, the M9 is a 
 much better 
  camera, but Leica definitely damaged its reputation with the M8.
  Paul
 
  On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:17 AM, Bob Sullivan 
  rf.sulli...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  Jeffery,
  Well thats a word or two to the wise...
  Saves me a lot of money.
  Regards,  Bob S.
 
  On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 9:09 AM, Jeffery Smith 
  jsmith...@gmail.com
  wrote:
 
  I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for 
 mentioning this, 
  but my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after 
  about a week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls 
 and emails 
  until I finally contacted the president of the company 
 personally. 
  If you aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about 
  customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The 
 second M8 body 
  would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. 
 Leica blamed 
  the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I 
  bought every different brand of memory card listed as 
 compatible 
  on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card 
 error until I 
  removed the battery, waited a few minutes, and then 
 reinserted the 
  battery (which apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat 
  this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was 
  turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error 
  reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last 
 year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems 
 to have fixed the memory card problem.
 
  Pro photographers and photographers wealthy enough to afford an 
  attorney get good service from Leica USA. Grunts like myself (a 
  teacher) aren't given the time of day. I have refrained from 
  mentioning my problems on the LUG except when a pro 
 photographer 
  posts a message saying that Leica customer service is 
 absolutely 
  the best. I then mention the problems I had and get my 
 ass flamed 
  as a heretic. I finally unsubscribed from the LUG as it became 
  less and less a forum about photography. The die hard 
  photojournalist types on the LUG now post incessant 
 photos of their dog, their flowers, or buildings.
 
  Leica film rangefinders are great, and reliable. Leica doesn't 
  seem to know anything whatsoever about digital

RE: Leica M9

Enjoy! I still have my M3, although I haven't used it in a long while.
Bob

 
 Paul,
 
 I just picked up a used M7, to shoot BW film.  I like the 
 phrase 'a thing of beauty', but there is a real learning 
 curve to using a rangefinder. 
 
 Bill Sawyer
 
 -Original Message-
 From: pdml-boun...@pdml.net [mailto:pdml-boun...@pdml.net] On 
 Behalf Of paul stenquist
 Sent: Monday, May 17, 2010 9:39 PM
 To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List
 Subject: Re: Leica M9
 
 Good rangefinders are wonderful. Especially for us old guys 
 with bad eyes.
 Paul
 
 On May 17, 2010, at 9:13 PM, Jack Davis wrote:
 
  I don't play well with Rangefinders. ugh!
  
  Jack
  
  --- On Mon, 5/17/10, William Robb war...@gmail.com wrote:
  
  From: William Robb war...@gmail.com
  Subject: Re: Leica M9
  To: Pentax-Discuss Mail List pdml@pdml.net
  Date: Monday, May 17, 2010, 4:31 PM
  
  - Original Message - From: Steven Desjardins
  Subject: Re: Leica M9
  
  
  I assume that you do have sufficient liquid assets to
  take care of the
  inevitable result?
  
  No, and as nice as it is, and make no mistake, it is a 
 thing of great 
  beauty, it would be totally lost on me.
  But it sure has a nice viewfinder.
  
  William Robb
  
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Re: Chicago

2010-05-18 Thread steve harley


On 2010-05-18 09:05 , P. J. Alling wrote:

Then it's not really art, it's craft.


another problem with requiring intent is how does the viewer know 
about the intent ...


is it always obvious? is any intent sufficient? must one meet or learn 
about the artist as well as experience the art? what if we perceive 
intent where there is none? what if we perceive no intent where there is 
some? what about art that deliberately manipulates the perception of 
intent?



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Re: Leica M9

They do have it written somewhere.  In fact I think it was included with 
the documentation I received when I bought my K20D. I made sure that I'd 
have no problems if it proved unsuitable, or DOA, as I needed it for an 
assignment.


On 5/18/2010 2:40 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:

Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early problems with the M8 
were probably abundantly obvious to BH at the time. It certainly was well 
documented on the web that many cameras were breaking down very quickly. There is 
an adage that you should never buy the first version of anything, and that seems to 
have applied to the M8.


On May 18, 2010, at 1:25 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:

   

BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how long exactly), and a 
couple hundred exposures before giving you a problem with a return.  Dead after 20 
exposures, is well within that return policy.

On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 

Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the state stocking the M8. I 
bought it from BH and was referred to Leica since it did not arrive dead on 
arrival. It took about 20 exposures before it died.


On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:


   

From: Jeffery Smith

 

I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for mentioning this, but
my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after about a
week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls and emails until I
finally contacted the president of the company personally. If you
aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about customer
service from Leica. You don't exist. The second M8 body would not
recognize any of the memory cards I used. Leica blamed the memory
cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I bought every
different brand of memory card listed as compatible on Leica's site,
and all gave me a no memory card error until I removed the battery,
waited a few minutes, and then reinserted the battery (which
apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat this every time I
wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was turned off or turned
itself off, the no memory card error reappeared.  Until a new
firmware upgrade appeared last year, the M8 just sat in a drawer. The
firmware upgrade seems to have fixed the memory card problem.

   

Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, local dealer or direct 
from Leica USA?

If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd start with whoever I 
bought it from, and put the onus on them to make it right. Same for one that 
wouldn't work at all from the get-go.

The dealer should have more leverage with the manufacturer, and if they don't 
it's still not MY problem. They sold it, they're responsible for making good.

I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because if something DOES go 
wrong, I get more stress relief if there's someone I can look in the eye while 
I'm yelling at him.

I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order house getting a problem 
fixed, but in retrospect the problem had more to do with the difficulties of trying 
to communicate three ways (dealer, manufacturer   me) across 9 time zones by 
email. They did finally understood the problem and got it sorted out for me.

I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I couldn't find what I 
wanted locally.

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RE: Leica M9

Don't you have any kind of consumer protection over there? I mean, for a
retailer to be allowed to turn away a faulty product after a week or so is
disgraceful. 

Last August - 10 months ago - I bought a netbook from amazon.co.uk. It's
been heavily used since then, on a daily basis. Last week it stopped working
and today I found out it's a problem with the motherboard, so I phoned
Amazon, told them the problem and they said 'ok, send it back. That model's
no longer available so we'll refund you in full'. I told them I was going to
wipe the hard disk first, to remove all personal data, and they were fine
with that.

Great service, but they are in any case obliged by law in Europe to do this.

Bob

 
 They do have it written somewhere.  In fact I think it was 
 included with the documentation I received when I bought my 
 K20D. I made sure that I'd have no problems if it proved 
 unsuitable, or DOA, as I needed it for an assignment.
 
 On 5/18/2010 2:40 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
  Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early 
 problems with the M8 were probably abundantly obvious to BH 
 at the time. It certainly was well documented on the web that 
 many cameras were breaking down very quickly. There is an 
 adage that you should never buy the first version of 
 anything, and that seems to have applied to the M8.
 
 
  On May 18, 2010, at 1:25 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
 
 
  BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how 
 long exactly), and a couple hundred exposures before giving 
 you a problem with a return.  Dead after 20 exposures, is 
 well within that return policy.
 
  On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
   
  Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the 
 state stocking the M8. I bought it from BH and was referred 
 to Leica since it did not arrive dead on arrival. It took 
 about 20 exposures before it died.
 
 
  On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
 
 
 
  From: Jeffery Smith
 
   
  I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for 
 mentioning this, 
  but my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after 
  about a week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls 
 and emails 
  until I finally contacted the president of the company 
 personally. 
  If you aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about 
  customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The 
 second M8 body 
  would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. 
 Leica blamed 
  the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I 
  bought every different brand of memory card listed as 
 compatible 
  on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card 
 error until I 
  removed the battery, waited a few minutes, and then 
 reinserted the 
  battery (which apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat 
  this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was 
  turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error 
  reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last 
 year, the 
  M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to 
 have fixed the memory card problem.
 
 
  Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, 
 local dealer or direct from Leica USA?
 
  If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd 
 start with whoever I bought it from, and put the onus on them 
 to make it right. Same for one that wouldn't work at all from 
 the get-go.
 
  The dealer should have more leverage with the 
 manufacturer, and if they don't it's still not MY problem. 
 They sold it, they're responsible for making good.
 
  I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because 
 if something DOES go wrong, I get more stress relief if 
 there's someone I can look in the eye while I'm yelling at him.
 
  I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order 
 house getting a problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem 
 had more to do with the difficulties of trying to communicate 
 three ways (dealer, manufacturer   me) across 9 time zones 
 by email. They did finally understood the problem and got it 
 sorted out for me.
 
  I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I 
 couldn't find what I wanted locally.
 
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Re: Chicago


On 5/18/2010 2:55 PM, steve harley wrote:

On 2010-05-18 09:05 , P. J. Alling wrote:

Then it's not really art, it's craft.


another problem with requiring intent is how does the viewer know 
about the intent ...


is it always obvious? is any intent sufficient? must one meet or learn 
about the artist as well as experience the art? what if we perceive 
intent where there is none? what if we perceive no intent where there 
is some? what about art that deliberately manipulates the perception 
of intent?


Like I said, even with intent, it still may not be art.  If a viewer 
chooses to view craft as art that's their choice.  If we don't perceive 
intent, then either we failed or the artist failed.  I guess I'm self 
confident enough to call something crap if I think it's crap, in spite 
of what others may say or think.  I happen to think that a lot of what's 
called art today is not just failure but con.








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Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange

2010-05-18 Thread Ken Waller


Are you using the separate R, G, B channel histogram?

I was blowing out the reds on some birds even tho the combined histogram 
showed an acceptable exposure.


Monitoring the red channel separately took care of the issue for me.

Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - 
From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com

Subject: Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange



On 5/18/2010 2:01 AM, Rob Studdert wrote:

On 18/05/2010, Larry Colenl...@red4est.com  wrote:

I was asked to do some photo sessions at a party this weekend.
I tried to take care not to blow out the red channel when I was setting 
the
exposure, but when I looked at the photos in LR on my mac the reds 
seemed
somewhat orangey, and the dayglow pink and the dayglow orange had lost a 
lot

of their pop and their saturation.

Was this a case of my misreading the histogram, or the histogram being 
based
on JPEG and not RAW so it wasn't really showing the red channel blowing 
out?

  In future situations, should I leave more headroom in the exposure?


Try not to saturate as always when shooting dayglow type colours but
don't expect anything but an approximation of their appearance in post
processed images. Firstly I'm not sure if the colours actually fit in
the gamut of the camera but even if they did then they would need to
be compressed in order to fit into the gamut of the monitor. How the
CMS on the target system manages this I'm not sure, I would expect
that it would apply a perceptual rendering intent.


Thanks. I've done other shoots with the same dayglo webbing and had it 
work just fine.  Last night I went through and processed my best of 
shots from the night and I noticed that it almost looked like one of my 
strobes was causing the webbing to fluoresce and the other wasn't:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4618116206/in/set-72157624084826162/



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Re: PESO Tilted is the new level

2010-05-18 Thread Toine

Good to see it's found a good home after living in a cupboard for many years.

Toine

On 18 May 2010 13:49, eckinator eckina...@gmail.com wrote:
 Mr Dutch Free Camera Fairy

 I almost omitted you; I am sorry. Indeed that is the Z70 on its first
 battery and roll and so far all functions appear to be in order.
 Having finally obtained a full format camera without stupid menus, I
 decided to go pro so it is of course Velvia... Thanks again, man =)

 Setup took a bit of practice but now I can have it up and pointed in
 roughly the right direction in under two minutes with short or under
 three with long legs.

 Now all I have to do is master it to the point of taking awesome
 pictures so I can delete the nice ones ;] Not fishing for compliments
 here, I'm really not all that happy with the image so I still have a
 lot to learn.

 Cheers
 Ecke

 2010/5/18 Toine to...@repiuk.nl:
 That's a serious setup. I'm flabbergasted how all the angles and tilts
 interact properly. I do spot a Z70 :)

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Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange


On 5/18/2010 12:33 PM, Ken Waller wrote:

Are you using the separate R, G, B channel histogram?
Yup. Always.  I thought I was leaving enough room, but maybe there was 
so little of the red at the high end that I didn't see it. Or maybe it 
got lost in the jpeg conversion.




I was blowing out the reds on some birds even tho the combined histogram
showed an acceptable exposure.


That happened to me shooting flowers.



Monitoring the red channel separately took care of the issue for me.


It usually seems to work.



Kenneth Waller
http://www.pentaxphotogallery.com/kennethwaller

- Original Message - From: Larry Colen l...@red4est.com
Subject: Re: photographing bright red, dayglo pink and orange



On 5/18/2010 2:01 AM, Rob Studdert wrote:

On 18/05/2010, Larry Colenl...@red4est.com wrote:

I was asked to do some photo sessions at a party this weekend.
I tried to take care not to blow out the red channel when I was
setting the
exposure, but when I looked at the photos in LR on my mac the reds
seemed
somewhat orangey, and the dayglow pink and the dayglow orange had
lost a lot
of their pop and their saturation.

Was this a case of my misreading the histogram, or the histogram
being based
on JPEG and not RAW so it wasn't really showing the red channel
blowing out?
In future situations, should I leave more headroom in the exposure?


Try not to saturate as always when shooting dayglow type colours but
don't expect anything but an approximation of their appearance in post
processed images. Firstly I'm not sure if the colours actually fit in
the gamut of the camera but even if they did then they would need to
be compressed in order to fit into the gamut of the monitor. How the
CMS on the target system manages this I'm not sure, I would expect
that it would apply a perceptual rendering intent.


Thanks. I've done other shoots with the same dayglo webbing and had it
work just fine. Last night I went through and processed my best of
shots from the night and I noticed that it almost looked like one of
my strobes was causing the webbing to fluoresce and the other wasn't:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/ellarsee/4618116206/in/set-72157624084826162/







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Re: Leica M9

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:55 AM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:
 ... (The Classic Camera, Pied Bull Yard, London 
 http://www.theclassiccamera.com/)

I know that shop! Haven't been there for a long time, but I believe
they were the outfit who took my Nikon 35Ti in trade for a second-hand
but never used Rollei 35 Classic Titanium in 1996. I try to stop in
whenever I visit London. Good folks.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Chicago

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 2:55 PM, steve harley p...@paper-ape.com wrote:

 another problem with requiring intent is how does the viewer know about
 the intent ...

 is it always obvious? is any intent sufficient? must one meet or learn about
 the artist as well as experience the art? what if we perceive intent where
 there is none? what if we perceive no intent where there is some? what about
 art that deliberately manipulates the perception of intent?


Well I have my simple answer to that.

1. I can tell art even when it's art I don't like.  There's a ton of
art that I do not like or that I actually detest, or I think 'why
would anybody do that?', yet I will admit it is art.
2. In my book if there is no intent or if the shown item (assuming
we're limiting the discussion to things visible) displays no intent,
then I'll conclude logically that there was no intent, so I don't
define it as art.

Put another way, if the maker of something deliberately produces
something that is so incongruous or disharmonious, that ist's devoid
of perceivable intent, then I have every right to view it in that way.
I would likely view it as junk and not art.

I would also venture to say that a random sampling of the general
populace would view it the same way and that virtually the only ones
that would view such a work as art, is the art theorists themselves.

Really I've tried to see it from their point of view but I couldn't
get my head up that far.

Everyone of course is free to disagree.

Tom C.

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Re: Leica M9

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 10:46 AM, Boris Liberman bori...@gmail.com wrote:
 On 5/18/2010 8:20 PM, Godfrey DiGiorgi wrote:

 It's always sad to hear reports of such a mess, but I hear them about
 every manufacturer from time to time. Nikon, Canon, Panasonic, Sony,
 Pentax ... all of them. I'm just glad I've only rarely needed service.
 ;-)

 Godfrey, there seems to be a minor difference in Jeffery's case.  ...

Just a matter of degree. I expect better service when I pay premium
prices for things like a Leica, and to get poor service from them is
more notable than from high volume outfits like Nikon/Canon or even
Pentax by comparison.

It obviously still burns for Jeffery, and his attitude seems like mine
with regard to Sigma equipment. Only difference is that I never spent
much money on Sigma stuff ... I never got any that was satisfactory in
the first place.
-- 
Godfrey
  godfreydigiorgi.posterous.com

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Re: Leica M9

It comes from not being quite as socialist. ;-)

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:
 Don't you have any kind of consumer protection over there? I mean, for a
 retailer to be allowed to turn away a faulty product after a week or so is
 disgraceful.

 Last August - 10 months ago - I bought a netbook from amazon.co.uk. It's
 been heavily used since then, on a daily basis. Last week it stopped working
 and today I found out it's a problem with the motherboard, so I phoned
 Amazon, told them the problem and they said 'ok, send it back. That model's
 no longer available so we'll refund you in full'. I told them I was going to
 wipe the hard disk first, to remove all personal data, and they were fine
 with that.

 Great service, but they are in any case obliged by law in Europe to do this.

 Bob


 They do have it written somewhere.  In fact I think it was
 included with the documentation I received when I bought my
 K20D. I made sure that I'd have no problems if it proved
 unsuitable, or DOA, as I needed it for an assignment.

 On 5/18/2010 2:40 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
  Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early
 problems with the M8 were probably abundantly obvious to BH
 at the time. It certainly was well documented on the web that
 many cameras were breaking down very quickly. There is an
 adage that you should never buy the first version of
 anything, and that seems to have applied to the M8.
 
 
  On May 18, 2010, at 1:25 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
 
 
  BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how
 long exactly), and a couple hundred exposures before giving
 you a problem with a return.  Dead after 20 exposures, is
 well within that return policy.
 
  On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 
  Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the
 state stocking the M8. I bought it from BH and was referred
 to Leica since it did not arrive dead on arrival. It took
 about 20 exposures before it died.
 
 
  On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
 
 
 
  From: Jeffery Smith
 
 
  I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for
 mentioning this,
  but my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after
  about a week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls
 and emails
  until I finally contacted the president of the company
 personally.
  If you aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about
  customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The
 second M8 body
  would not recognize any of the memory cards I used.
 Leica blamed
  the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I
  bought every different brand of memory card listed as
 compatible
  on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card
 error until I
  removed the battery, waited a few minutes, and then
 reinserted the
  battery (which apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat
  this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was
  turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error
  reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last
 year, the
  M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to
 have fixed the memory card problem.
 
 
  Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order,
 local dealer or direct from Leica USA?
 
  If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd
 start with whoever I bought it from, and put the onus on them
 to make it right. Same for one that wouldn't work at all from
 the get-go.
 
  The dealer should have more leverage with the
 manufacturer, and if they don't it's still not MY problem.
 They sold it, they're responsible for making good.
 
  I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because
 if something DOES go wrong, I get more stress relief if
 there's someone I can look in the eye while I'm yelling at him.
 
  I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order
 house getting a problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem
 had more to do with the difficulties of trying to communicate
 three ways (dealer, manufacturer   me) across 9 time zones
 by email. They did finally understood the problem and got it
 sorted out for me.
 
  I would, and have bought from them since then ... when I
 couldn't find what I wanted locally.
 
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Re: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick

Thanks Chris, Rob and all.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 1:37 PM, Chris Mitchell
chris.mitch...@which.net wrote:
 Tom C wrote
 Subject: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick

 After the exhibit opening, many of us went to the roof for a look at
 downtown.

 http://photo.net/photodb/photo?photo_id=11021659size=lg


 A good night shot Tom. I'm disappointed that I managed to get monopolised by
 some gallery goers and didn't get a chance to use the tripod too.

 However, they were interested in buying my print so it was worth spending
 time chatting them up. I'm still waiting to hear whether they did actually
 buy though - wonder if Bob saw any more red dots when he was there at the
 weekend?

 Chris



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RE: Leica M9

Viva la revolucion!

 
 It comes from not being quite as socialist. ;-)
 
 On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 3:32 PM, Bob W p...@web-options.com wrote:
  Don't you have any kind of consumer protection over there? 
 I mean, for 
  a retailer to be allowed to turn away a faulty product 
 after a week or 
  so is disgraceful.
 
  Last August - 10 months ago - I bought a netbook from amazon.co.uk. 
  It's been heavily used since then, on a daily basis. Last week it 
  stopped working and today I found out it's a problem with the 
  motherboard, so I phoned Amazon, told them the problem and 
 they said 
  'ok, send it back. That model's no longer available so we'll refund 
  you in full'. I told them I was going to wipe the hard disk 
 first, to 
  remove all personal data, and they were fine with that.
 
  Great service, but they are in any case obliged by law in 
 Europe to do this.
 
  Bob
 
 
  They do have it written somewhere.  In fact I think it was 
 included 
  with the documentation I received when I bought my K20D. I 
 made sure 
  that I'd have no problems if it proved unsuitable, or DOA, as I 
  needed it for an assignment.



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Pentax 645D apparently introduced in Canada

2010-05-18 Thread AlunFoto

Youtube flick:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1V58LsKtcfeature=player_embedded

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Re: GESO: Augenblick Chicago 2010

Jay,
It was a pleasure to meet you, sorry you didn't have more time.
You sure got a lot of great pictures in your short visit.
You really covered a lt of ground.
The HDR stuff is sure different and interesting.
And Sirfishalot made me smile...
Regards, Bob S.

On Tue, May 18, 2010 at 11:06 AM, Jay Taylor
taylorjohn...@cablespeed.com wrote:
Here are a few images from my short visit to Chicago last week.
The gallery opening was fantastic as was the company of the PDML'ers there.
I'm so very glad to have met you guys and it was a pleasure hanging out with
you.
Special thanks again to Mark and Christine for their huge part in making the
exhibition a reality. I really wish I could have stayed past Saturday
afternoon, but I needed to be home for Mother's Day. I really need to spend
about a week in Chicago to see everything.

Ann, Tom C, Will Robb and I went out for pizza at Pizzaria Uno after the
opening which was fantastic!

The Eggelston exhibit on Saturday was interesting. Much of it had me
scratching my head, but there were a handful of prints that I thought were
really superb.
I had a great time and was very glad to have been able to make the trip.
Thanks everyone!

http://www.jaytaylorphotography.com/Travel/Chicago-PDML-2010/12194534_MBhoP#868042130_je84c

JayT

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Cameras in a Crowd, an Observation

2010-05-18 Thread John Celio

Last sunday was Bay to Breakers, an annual footrace across San
Francisco.  Few people seem to care about the race part, honestly:
tens of thousands of people (generally of college age) walk the route
drunk, high and partying.  Lots of people show up in costumes ranging
from adult babies to superheroes to swarms of bees, and there are always
scantily-clad (or even naked) people amongst the crowd too.  Because of
all this, most people show up with their cameras.  I kept an eye out for
two kinds of cameras out of curiosity: Pentax cameras and film cameras.

I saw four Pentaxes: two dSLRs (late models, though not sure which), a
W90 and an entry-level model whose number I couldn't see.

I saw four film cameras: a Canon T-something, a Nikon F2 and two PS
ultra-zoom Olympuses (Olympi?)

Digitals from Canon, Sony, Nikon, Casio and some other brands were
represented quite frequently, though I didn't attempt to keep track of
them.  Lots of them were ultra-zoom models, though, from every brand
that makes one.  The fact that there were as many film cameras as
Pentaxes is somewhat alarming.  I saw a few toy cameras (Holgas, etc),
but I don't count them under film cameras since they're more of a
hobbyist niche than 35mm cameras are (though admitedly they're heading
that way).

What sorts of cameras do you notice when you're out in a crowd?

John

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GESO - Yet another Chicago view

2010-05-18 Thread Ann Sanfedele




http://annsan.smugmug.com/On-the-Road-or-On-Foot/Bus-Trip-to-Chicago-May-2010/12194964_YYtFD

And getting there and comping back...

I'm better at editing after waiting a year but these kinda tell the 
story - although on longer reflection I'm sure I'll dump some of these and

replace with others..

Have to get back to retrieving funds now I'm home.  IT always costs more 
than you think it is going to to go away but , boy, am I glad I did.


Adding to the cheers of the crowd for the perps of the splendid event 
at Dankhaus  -- rah rah Mark, Christine, Sue, Doug et al...!


ann





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Re: Leica M9

2010/5/18 Bob W p...@web-options.com:

 Last August - 10 months ago - I bought a netbook from amazon.co.uk. It's
 been heavily used since then, on a daily basis. Last week it stopped working
 and today I found out it's a problem with the motherboard, so I phoned
 Amazon, told them the problem and they said 'ok, send it back. That model's
 no longer available so we'll refund you in full'. I told them I was going to
 wipe the hard disk first, to remove all personal data, and they were fine
 with that.

 Great service, but they are in any case obliged by law in Europe to do this.

Not quite, under the law they have three repair attempts per any
single defect before they have to take anything back. amazon are doing
this of their own volition, leveraging above market standard service
to generate more volume at above market prices. their service
reputation is a large part of their business model imvho.

I buy the vast majority of my non-consumables and non-eBay-steals from
amazon because they never give me any trouble whatsoever if something
fails  -my Panasonic DMC-TZ5 did a while ago and they even suggested I
should send it to them for full refund and a chance to buy a better
camera with that money instead of having it repaired and returned by
Panasonic. Even compared to amazon Marketplace I always end up paying
slightly more. They don't compete down to the last penny. But it is
money well spent every time their service goes that extra mile.

Cheers
Ecke

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Re: Leica M9

I bought an Epson 2000P printer soon after they came out. It arrived DOA. I 
contacted Adorama.com (where I bought it), and they gave me a long list of 
pedestrian things to do that stretched out for several days (such as make sure 
that it is plugged in, that I'm not in the middle of a blackout, that there is 
ink in the cartridge). When they had delayed me for enough days, they told me 
that I missed the opportunity to return it...the maximum number of days had 
transpired. They were counting the number of days since the purchase day 
(on-line), which of course was about 6 days before I received it. So Epson sent 
me a refurb.

It's pretty hard to hardball them when they are 1,000 miles away, so I try to 
buy most things locally. Unfortunately, when what you are looking for is 
something other than a Canon Rebel, you have to order from out of state. 



On May 18, 2010, at 2:32 PM, Bob W wrote:

 Don't you have any kind of consumer protection over there? I mean, for a
 retailer to be allowed to turn away a faulty product after a week or so is
 disgraceful. 
 
 Last August - 10 months ago - I bought a netbook from amazon.co.uk. It's
 been heavily used since then, on a daily basis. Last week it stopped working
 and today I found out it's a problem with the motherboard, so I phoned
 Amazon, told them the problem and they said 'ok, send it back. That model's
 no longer available so we'll refund you in full'. I told them I was going to
 wipe the hard disk first, to remove all personal data, and they were fine
 with that.
 
 Great service, but they are in any case obliged by law in Europe to do this.
 
 Bob
 
 
 They do have it written somewhere.  In fact I think it was 
 included with the documentation I received when I bought my 
 K20D. I made sure that I'd have no problems if it proved 
 unsuitable, or DOA, as I needed it for an assignment.
 
 On 5/18/2010 2:40 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 Do they have that written somewhere? I think that the early 
 problems with the M8 were probably abundantly obvious to BH 
 at the time. It certainly was well documented on the web that 
 many cameras were breaking down very quickly. There is an 
 adage that you should never buy the first version of 
 anything, and that seems to have applied to the M8.
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 1:25 PM, P. J. Alling wrote:
 
 
 BH photo gives you a week or so, (I can't remember how 
 long exactly), and a couple hundred exposures before giving 
 you a problem with a return.  Dead after 20 exposures, is 
 well within that return policy.
 
 On 5/18/2010 2:12 PM, Jeffery Smith wrote:
 
 Post Katrina there were no places in this part of the 
 state stocking the M8. I bought it from BH and was referred 
 to Leica since it did not arrive dead on arrival. It took 
 about 20 exposures before it died.
 
 
 On May 18, 2010, at 12:51 PM, John Sessoms wrote:
 
 
 
 From: Jeffery Smith
 
 
 I got flamed on the Leica Users Group forum for 
 mentioning this, 
 but my M8's were anything but reliable. My first one died after 
 about a week, and Leica ignored all of my phone calls 
 and emails 
 until I finally contacted the president of the company 
 personally. 
 If you aren't a professional photographer, you can forget about 
 customer service from Leica. You don't exist. The 
 second M8 body 
 would not recognize any of the memory cards I used. 
 Leica blamed 
 the memory cards and refused to repair or replace the camera. I 
 bought every different brand of memory card listed as 
 compatible 
 on Leica's site, and all gave me a no memory card 
 error until I 
 removed the battery, waited a few minutes, and then 
 reinserted the 
 battery (which apparently rebooted the camera). I had to repeat 
 this every time I wanted to shoot a frame. Once the camera was 
 turned off or turned itself off, the no memory card error 
 reappeared.  Until a new firmware upgrade appeared last 
 year, the 
 M8 just sat in a drawer. The firmware upgrade seems to 
 have fixed the memory card problem.
 
 
 Who did you buy the camera from? I mean, NYC mail-order, 
 local dealer or direct from Leica USA?
 
 If I bought a camera that only worked for a week, I'd 
 start with whoever I bought it from, and put the onus on them 
 to make it right. Same for one that wouldn't work at all from 
 the get-go.
 
 The dealer should have more leverage with the 
 manufacturer, and if they don't it's still not MY problem. 
 They sold it, they're responsible for making good.
 
 I prefer to deal locally whenever I can, simply because 
 if something DOES go wrong, I get more stress relief if 
 there's someone I can look in the eye while I'm yelling at him.
 
 I had some problems one time with a major NYC mail-order 
 house getting a problem fixed, but in retrospect the problem 
 had more to do with the difficulties of trying to communicate 
 three ways (dealer, manufacturer   me) across 9 time zones 
 by email. They did finally understood the problem and got it 
 sorted out for me.
 
 I would, and

Re: Pentax 645D apparently introduced in Canada

Must.control.impulses

On May 18, 2010, at 2:56 PM, AlunFoto wrote:

 Youtube flick:
 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xd1V58LsKtcfeature=player_embedded
 
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Re: Cameras in a Crowd, an Observation

2010/5/18 John Celio n...@neovenator.com:

 What sorts of cameras do you notice when you're out in a crowd?

Definitely Canon T90 because I've had mine stolen and still think it
was the greatest non-AF camera I've ever owned. Tempted to pick one up
in the bay often but it would start me on another glass binge at a
time that has me bartering over postage with eBay sellers because 63%
sick pay just doesn't leave room. Also Nikon F5 and F6 for being my
most wanted film camera list. Rolleiflexes. Hassies. Full frame alphas
because of their odd prism housing shape. High end DSLRs in general
and only because they don't change as often as the lower end, I don't
follow the market that much. If I can't identify it, it doesn't tend
to attract my curiosity.
Cheers
Ecke

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Re: PESO - Downtown Chicago from Augenblick