[Emc-users] (no subject)
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[Emc-users] CAM / G-code Generation
Greetings, I have been trying to find a decent open source CAD and CAM solution. FreeCAD looks very promising and it appears that Dan Falck got opencamlib at least crudely working with it. Is any one using FreeCAD/opencamlib to make any actual cuts? Other than that, can anyone recommend a simple open source solution for generating G-code? If not open source, how about it at least run on Ubuntu 10.04? I appreciate all comments and suggestions! Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM / G-code Generation
On Mar 21, 2012, at 12:40 PM, Ray Mitchell wrote: Have you looked at HeeksCAD/CAM? heeks.net Hi Ray, I haven't had time to run my machine in quite sometime, but, HeeksCAD is was what I used last time I needed to make some simple tool paths. When I looked at the current state of Heeks yesterday, it seemed like the author was recommending FreeCAD: I don't have time to administer HeeksCAD properly and I suggest for a more active project you look at FreeCAD. http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/ Apparently, Dan Falck got opencamlib running in FreeCAD. I understand that opencamlib is essentially what powers G-code creation in Heeks: http://opensourcedesigntools.blogspot.com/ Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM / G-code Generation
On Mar 21, 2012, at 12:44 PM, Sebastian Kuzminsky wrote: On Mar 21, 2012, at 11:50 , Jeshua Lacock wrote: Greetings, I have been trying to find a decent open source CAD and CAM solution. FreeCAD looks very promising and it appears that Dan Falck got opencamlib at least crudely working with it. Is any one using FreeCAD/opencamlib to make any actual cuts? Other than that, can anyone recommend a simple open source solution for generating G-code? If not open source, how about it at least run on Ubuntu 10.04? I appreciate all comments and suggestions! I've made parts with FreeCAD and PyCAM. FreeCAD is pretty great, PyCAM still has a ways to go. If you are going to use PyCAM, clone their git repo on Sourceforge, don't use their latest published deb, it's out of date. I feel sanguine about Dan Falck's FreeCAD + OpenCamLib. Thanks Sebastian. I had forgot about PyCAM - it looked promising last time I gave it a shot, but IIRC it was crashing last time I tried it. Will give her a whirl. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM / G-code Generation
On Mar 21, 2012, at 1:24 PM, dave wrote: I have been trying to find a decent open source CAD and CAM solution. FreeCAD looks very promising and it appears that Dan Falck got opencamlib at least crudely working with it. Is any one using FreeCAD/opencamlib to make any actual cuts? Other than that, can anyone recommend a simple open source solution for generating G-code? If not open source, how about it at least run on Ubuntu 10.04? I appreciate all comments and suggestions! I think Dan is off using HeeksCAD as the easiest free solution. On the $$ side I use synergy from weber systems. The drafting is free, cam for 2.5 D is $250. IIRC, wireframe is $750 and full solids (parasolids) is $1250. The learning curve is interesting but possible even for a dummy like me. Google 'synergy cad' to get a web site. They have a 30 day trial of the full meal deal. On the non-$$ side I'm trying to learn APT; both for mental exercise and as a practical tool. Thanks for the suggestions Dave. I could live with $250 but I ultimately need some solids. So PyCAM, HeeksCAD and opencamlib that is pretty much all the open source CAM? Seems surprising. Is there any decent 3D CAM on Windows for a few hundred then? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] CAM / G-code Generation
On Mar 21, 2012, at 2:10 PM, Anders Wallin wrote: I haven't had time to run my machine in quite sometime, but, HeeksCAD is was what I used last time I needed to make some simple tool paths. When I looked at the current state of Heeks yesterday, it seemed like the author was recommending FreeCAD: I don't have time to administer HeeksCAD properly and I suggest for a more active project you look at FreeCAD. http://code.google.com/p/heekscad/ My understanding is that Dan Heeks wanted to work on the google-code version himself, whenever he has time - he may be busy with other projects. The version of HeeksCAD/CNC on github was forkeddeveloped by a number of users, but that momentum seems to have been lost now. Hi Anders, Do you have the link for the forked currently developed version? Thanks! Playing with PyCam right now. Seems to come a long ways since I last played with it. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Max Jitter
Hi, I am not sure to use the 1.0ms or 25us figure. Can anyone shed some light on which jitter number I would use for the latency test? Thanks! Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter
On Mar 29, 2012, at 12:59 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 1) If You mean: which jitter number from latency test results to take into account? 25us figure represents jitter in base thread. 1ms figure represents jitter in servo thread. Which figure to use? It depends... Will You run anything in base thread (like Erik mentioned - software step generation is one of the tasks for base thread) or will everything be done in servo thread? I am using servos with the Gecko 320. 2) If You mean: which number to take for the latency number to run? IMHO, the question is not valid, You cannot put Your own numbers there, You simply should open latency test and press run (or something like that, I do not remember correctly) and then, with that I am familiar with the latency test, that is exactly what I was referring to. It reports two Max Jitters there and I did not know for certain that one was for servos and the other for steppers. Thank you. Does anyone know of some known settings to try disabling in CMOS to possibly get lower numbers? My 1.0ms Max Jitter is under 9300, but if possible I would like to get it even lower. Thanks! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
Greetings, My new motherboard for EMC2 does not have a Parallel port on it - so I bought a PCI card for it in haste. Now it seems that I bought the wrong card for the job: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MY45WS/ref=oh_o02_s00_i03_details The output from 'lspci': 08:00.0 Serial controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX16PCI954 (Quad 16950 UART) function 0 (Disabled) (rev 01) (prog-if 06) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c090 [size=8] I/O ports at c080 [size=8] I/O ports at c070 [size=8] I/O ports at c060 [size=8] I/O ports at c020 [size=32] Memory at fb101000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: serial It doesn't appear to support EPP. So, can anyone recommend a card that will work for sure? Or these appear to support EPP, but will they work on Ubuntu 10.04? http://www.amazon.com/Single-Parallel-epp-ecp-Port/dp/B000G6U5NA/ref=sr_1_8?ie=UTF8qid=1333134092sr=8-8 http://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-Express-Profile-Parallel-Adapter/dp/B001Q7X0Z8/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_3?ie=UTF8qid=1333134092sr=8-3-fkmr0 Thanks! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:12 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: My new motherboard for EMC2 does not have a Parallel port on it - so I bought a PCI card for it in haste. Now it seems that I bought the wrong card for the job: Actually, perhaps I spoke too soon. On the box it states Add a dual voltage high-speed parallel port (EPP/ECP) to your computer. So can anyone suggest what I might have to do to use the card with EMC2? Thank you! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:22 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: The Oxsemi (well PLXTech now) OX16PCI954 does support EPP (I have one and it works with our EPP interfaced FPGA cards) Thanks Peter. So, how did you determine that address to use for the stepper config? Why do you need EPP? Perhaps I am wrong, but I interpreted that the wiki was stating that EPP is required: Parallel port cards allow the addition of parallel ports beyond the built-in port on PC motherboards. These may be used for realtime functions such as software PWM and step/dir, or for user functions such as controlling coolant, tool changers, relays, etcetera. Nearly any card will work with pin changing functions (hal_parport), but very few cards are compatible with EPP, which is used with parallel port connected FPGA signal generators and controllers. http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?action=browseid=EMC2_Supported_Hardwarerevision=90 Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:20 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: Does anyone know of some known settings to try disabling in CMOS to possibly get lower numbers? My 1.0ms Max Jitter is under 9300, but if possible I would like to get it even lower. IMHO it is very good number already. You have max jitter of 9,3 us in a 1000 us thread, so the max deviance is less than 1%, LinuxCNC will perfectly handle that. At the moment I can remember of 2 things to do, if You want to try: 1) for Intel processors, hyperthreading might be disabled; 2) for multi-core processors, one or more processors can be isolated exclusively for real-time tasks with isolcpus parameter; http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?RealTime Thanks for your explanation Viesturs! And, that is very interesting! When I run the CPU hog, my max jitter goes down to about 1,000! I would like to set the CPU as instructed, but I have never used grub before. I assume I add isolcpus=1 to the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file - but I am not sure where to add it. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated, thanks! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:50 PM, Kent A. Reed wrote: Whatever you have, it doesn't match the description in the Amazon link you sent (a single parallel port incorporating an OX16PI952 chip). The OX16PI954 chip reported by lspci supports 4 uarts and a parallel port. see http://snebulos.mit.edu/projects/voila/docs/datasheets/Oxford_QuadUART.pdf , which says The info from that link is the same as the box I have. But 'lspci' shows more than one entry for that card which I omitted to include: 08:00.1 Non-VGA unclassified device: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX16PCI954 (Quad 16950 UART) function 1 (parallel port) (rev 01) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c050 [size=8] I/O ports at c040 [size=8] I/O ports at c000 [size=32] Memory at fb10 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: parport_pc Kernel modules: parport_pc Sorry for being dense, but based on that, what address would I use for the base address in the stepper configuration? 0c050? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/3/30 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: Actually, perhaps I spoke too soon. On the box it states Add a dual voltage high-speed parallel port (EPP/ECP) to your computer. EPP mode is needed only and exclusively for external fpga boards. If Your goal is software step generation, then You do not need the EPP mode. I understand now, thanks. So can anyone suggest what I might have to do to use the card with EMC2? I guess that one of these c090, c080, c070, c060 or c020 is the port address, which should be specified in the HAL file (sorry, I am not that smart to know, which one exactly; trial-and-error method is my best friend in such cases). Other than that - treat it as usual parallel port. So how would that be specified? 0c090? The default is 0x378. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Parallel Adapter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 2:08 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/3/30 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:37 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: I guess that one of these c090, c080, c070, c060 or c020 is the port address, which should be specified in the HAL file (sorry, I am not that smart to know, which one exactly; trial-and-error method is my best friend in such cases). Other than that - treat it as usual parallel port. So how would that be specified? 0c090? The default is 0x378. Trial-and-error method :)) Honestly I do not know. I guess it could be 0xc090, but I would encourage You to try those remaining too, if this does not work. If none of them work with 0x in front, then I am wrong. As simple as that Thanks! I just wasn't sure to put a 0x in front or what. I just put in 0xc050 and it works! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/3/30 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: And, that is very interesting! When I run the CPU hog, my max jitter goes down to about 1,000! Wow! How long did You run the latency test? Did You try to put some load to PC? I let it run for about 10 minutes just doing normal activity - but if I am not running the CPU hog it immediately jumps to around 8,000, versus about 500 with the cpu-hog. So that means whenever I am machining I would need a cpu hog running I guess? It is really counterintuitive! I would like to set the CPU as instructed, but I have never used grub before. I assume I add isolcpus=1 to the /boot/grub/grub.cfg file - but I am not sure where to add it. Well, if You will open /boot/grub/grub.cfg filem You will see this line at the very top: # DO NOT EDIT THIS FILE I really suggest following this kind advice. Especially if it is written with capital letters :)) My googling results tell, that You should edit /etc/default/grub For that You will need root privileges. You can do that by running in terminal this command: sudo gedit Text editor will be opened, click open and find the file. There is a line: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX= Change it to: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=isolcpus=1 Save the document, close text editor. To apply changes, run in terminal: sudo update-grub Thanks, I have now done that, but I don't really notice any difference. Too bad, it would have been a better solution than the cpu hog. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Max Jitter
On Mar 30, 2012, at 1:59 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: My googling results tell, that You should edit /etc/default/grub For that You will need root privileges. You can do that by running in terminal this command: sudo gedit Text editor will be opened, click open and find the file. There is a line: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX= Change it to: GRUB_CMDLINE_LINUX=isolcpus=1 Save the document, close text editor. To apply changes, run in terminal: sudo update-grub Hi All, After doing this and a reboot, I am not noticing any changes. Can someone recommend a way to test to see if a core has been successfully isolated? Also, would it make a difference what core is isolated? Should I try an other value besides 1? Thanks! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- This SF email is sponsosred by: Try Windows Azure free for 90 days Click Here http://p.sf.net/sfu/sfd2d-msazure ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
Greetings, Well my machine is up an running nicely now, but now I want to make it go faster! My Z axis is about 10,000 lines per inch, so it uses up my available bandwidth really fast. Right now I have the Z's max speed set to a mere 3 inches per sec. My Y is 24 inches per sec, and X is 10 inches per sec. That uses up my available 71khz. So, I understand that something like Mesa's 4I30 4 channel quadrature counter card will allow me much more bandwidth to run my servos faster. I am using servos with optical encoders. My big servo for the main gantry's power supply is 3KW. The two other servos share a 1kw power supply. I am currently controlling the Gecko 320s straight from EMC. Is there anything I will need to order besides the Mesa's 4I30? How simple is it to wire up? I assume the encoder signals go to the Mesa? How are the Geckos wired? What does the parallel port connect to? It would be helpful if I had an idea what I am getting myself into. ;) Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 6, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/6 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: Is there anything I will need to order besides the Mesa's 4I30? How simple is it to wire up? I assume the encoder signals go to the Mesa? How are the Geckos wired? What does the parallel port connect to? I have been using Mesa cards, but I am sticking with pci solutions. I do not really understand, how do PC/104 cards connect to PC. Since there is no such connector, some additional elements would be needed. Hi Viesturs, Thank you, that is good to know. That is why I think that 5i25 card would do much better - less rewiring (actually You might get away with no rewiring at all) and there also is price difference. Plug it straight in pci slot and attach Your existing lpt cables to it. The only thing to do is sort out the firmware - most probably, You will need to tell Mesa's people, which exact pins are stepgen outputs, which pins are encoder inputs and they shall arrange the rest - AFAIK the tool for users to configure the 5i25 cards is not yet available. Very nice! Sounds absolutely perfect. Great price too! How many encoder counts per second does that card do? It would be helpful if I had an idea what I am getting myself into. Into some more learning new things... Your HAL files will need an update too - the naming of pins will change, software stepgens would go away and maybe some other things. But that could be considered an easy task. Sounds much better than rewiring the whole system! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 6, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: That is why I think that 5i25 card would do much better - less rewiring (actually You might get away with no rewiring at all) and there also is price difference. Plug it straight in pci slot and attach Your existing lpt cables to it. The only thing to do is sort out the firmware - most probably, You will need to tell Mesa's people, which exact pins are stepgen outputs, which pins are encoder inputs and they shall arrange the rest - AFAIK the tool for users to configure the 5i25 cards is not yet available. I emailed Mesa to inquire about purchasing, and it looks like I would want the firmware set to support the Gecko 540. (that is the only Gecko controller they list support for). I asked if that was compatible with the Gecko 320 and did not hear back from them before I guess they went home for the weekend. So, can anyone tell me if my 320's will be compatible with it set to support Gecko 540s? My guess is they are compatible, but I want to make sure first. Thanks! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 7, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 7 Apr 2012, at 18:02, Tom Easterday tom-...@bgp.nu wrote: Yes, they are compatible. We run a a 320x with the Mesa 7i43TA card. I think that is the answer to a slightly different question. The 5i23 in the G540 configuration emulates the parallel port pinout that suits a G540. What this means is that the stepgen pins are in the right place, for a G650 and can't be moved. (general purpose IO can be re-mapped in HAL.) Check the Gecko docs to see if that pinout suits you. I would suspect not. Bear in mind that the 5i25 has a second header, with another 25 pins, which can be any gpio or hostmot2 function. What pinout do you want? I see, thanks Andy. OK, so I just have to give them a list of how my parallel port pins are connected to my Gecko 320s then? Eg: Pin 1: Unused Pin 2: X Step Pin 3: X Direction … As well as parport emulation, the 5i25 can connect to a variety of semi-smart cards, for a lot more IO and/or things like analogue spindle control for a VFD. Nice. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 8, 2012, at 12:35 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 7 Apr 2012, at 22:06, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: OK, so I just have to give them a list of how my parallel port pins are connected to my Gecko 320s then? Basically, yes, though there are a number of other folk who can make firmwares (including me) and the instructions are on the Wiki. The only reason (AFAIK) why the tools required are not part of (for example) LinuxCNC-dev are due to the licensing of the Xilinx tools. Thanks Andy that is good to know. I was just thinking about the set up as I understand it (i.e. the Mesa card replacing my parallel port connected directly to the Geckos). It seems like the encoders would have to connect to the Mesa card to benefit from any increased encoder bandwidth. Am I missing something? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 8, 2012, at 4:11 PM, Greg Bernard wrote: I don't know if you're committed to the Mesa cards yet but have you checked out Pico System's step and direction card. It's more expensive but may be a better fit for the Gecko drives. http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=4products_id=30 Thanks for the tip Greg. Looks pretty interesting, but I would have to completely rewire just about everything. Still - looks like it is a viable option. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 8, 2012, at 5:43 PM, Peter C. Wallace wrote: On Sun, 8 Apr 2012, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2012 15:14:15 -0600 From: Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com Reply-To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net To: Enhanced Machine Controller (EMC) emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card? Can anyone tell me how I would wire up the encoders? Are they connected through the parallel cable, or some other way? If anyone from Mesa is listening, can you provide a crude diagram? I am a visual learner, so that would be most appreciated. TTl (single ended) Encoders can be connected to the bare FPGA pins. Normally encoders have 3 pins each: A,B and I (or Z) so if for example a 5I25 FPGA configuration had encoder 0 connected to parallel port pins 1,2, and 3 you might wire encoder0-A to parallel port pin 1, encoder0-B to parallel port pin 2 and encoder0-Z to parallel port pin 3. (if you dont have or need the index/Z pin it can be dropped) Hi Peter, Thanks for your response. I am currently using TTI encoders with just A and B, so that all sounds fine. There is a risk with direct connection of these signals that the FPGA card could be damaged if either ESD or excessive voltages were applied accidentally to the I/O pins (This also applies to standard parallel ports). The 5I25 is safe for inputs from -.6V to +7V. If a voltage beyond this range is applied to the FPGA pins, the 5I25 will likely be damaged. For this reason we supply breakout boards that are more rugged. Also for high speed and noise immunity, differential encoder signals are preferred to single ended signals. These differential signals are also supported by our breakout cards. I am currently powering my encoders from the 5V from my computers USB port, so I guess something really terrible would have to happen to exceed 5V. That said, what break out board would you recommend? I may go with differential signals some day, but I have not had any issues with noise thus far. All that said, for simple step/dir + TTl encoder use, you can get away without any breakout card. For example the G540 configuration is pinned out to connect directly to a G540 multi axis step drive. This in no way means it would only work with a G540, just that its pinout matches the G540 so no special cable/adapters are needed to connect the 5I25s DB25 connector to the G540s DB25 connector. If you wanted to use the step/dir outputs of a G540 configuration on individual step drives you would just need to check the G540 FPGA pinout and wire the parallel port pins accordingly. That is, there is nothing G540 specific about the configuration except its pinout. So all I have to do is provide you with a list of my pinouts and I am basically set after I rewire the wires from the encoders from the Geckos to the correct pins? Do you have any guides or offer assistance with configuring EMC? If you have an existing parallel port pinout with encoders and step/dir, this can easliy be duplicated in a custom 5I25 configuration. This probably sounds more exotic than it really is, as only a single pinout definition file needs to change to generate a new configuration, basically a 5 minute cut/paste edit job and a re-compile. Sounds perfect. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 2:03 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/9 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: On Apr 8, 2012, at 7:37 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/8 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: I was just thinking about the set up as I understand it (i.e. the Mesa card replacing my parallel port connected directly to the Geckos). It seems like the encoders would have to connect to the Mesa card to benefit from any increased encoder bandwidth. Am I missing something? Well, from Your first post on this thread, I understand that the encoders are the reason for getting the Mesa card in first place :)) And the hardware step generation is just a side benefit... I guess I am confused because you had stated: (actually You might get away with no rewiring at all) I do not see any contradiction or something :) From Your first post I understand that You already have connected Your encoders to PC via parallel port, but the problem is that it is not fast enough. If You get 5i25 card with a custom firmware so that its pinout matches Your existing hardware setup, then You can read encoder signals in 5i25 card and no rewiring would be needed. The same goes for Gecko drives - with corresponding 5i25 pinout You do not need to rewire anything to feed the step/dir signals to each drive. And as Peter already told, that is not a problem to adjust the pinout of particular firmware. Hi Viesturs, How is that possible? The encoders are connected to the Geckos, not through the parallel port…. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/9 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: How is that possible? The encoders are connected to the Geckos, not through the parallel port…. I do not understand, what exactly is not clear to You :) AFAIK Gecko drives will need the encoder signal for them to function, so each encoder signal will have to be splitted/doubled/copied to both PC and Gecko drive. Hi Viesturs, Well OK, that was never explained to me. You were saying that perhaps no rewiring would be required, and Peter was saying that the encoders would be wired to the pins of the 5i22, but no one ever told me that they would have to be wired to *booth*. I have stated this already, but it would have been immensely helpful if I could see a simple schematic. I am a bit surprised Peter or Mesa hasn't provided one. I guess that currently we have a basic misunderstanding due to things not explicitly explained. And I see that You have not explicitly explained, what exactly do You currently have in Your machine. Sorry if I wasn't clear. From the way You wrote Your first message I understand that You already have a working system with encoder signal going also to PC: 2012/4/6 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: My Z axis is about 10,000 lines per inch, so it uses up my available bandwidth really fast. Right now I have the Z's max speed set to a mere 3 inches per sec. My Y is 24 inches per sec, and X is 10 inches per sec. That uses up my available 71khz. So, I understand that something like Mesa's 4I30 4 channel quadrature counter card will allow me much more bandwidth to run my servos faster. What kind of 10,000 lines per inch are You talking about, if that is not encoder signal? It could be also step signal, but encoders were the only thing discussed in that message... Could You, please, expand on what exactly You have there? Where are encoders currently connected? As I have stated, the encoders are currently connected to the Geckos. I am just using a standard setup as far as I know. I have two wires from my power source connected to the Geckos, two wires from the geckos to power the motor, the common wire, 5v and ground for the encoder, then encoder A/B going to the Gecko, and step/dir coming from the parallel port. Please let me know if anything else would be helpful. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 1:03 PM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/9 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: On Apr 9, 2012, at 3:16 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/9 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: How is that possible? The encoders are connected to the Geckos, not through the parallel port I do not understand, what exactly is not clear to You :) AFAIK Gecko drives will need the encoder signal for them to function, so each encoder signal will have to be splitted/doubled/copied to both PC and Gecko drive. Hi Viesturs, Well OK, that was never explained to me. You were saying that perhaps no rewiring would be required, and Peter was saying that the encoders would be wired to the pins of the 5i22, but no one ever told me that they would have to be wired to *booth*. I have stated this already, but it would have been immensely helpful if I could see a simple schematic. I am a bit surprised Peter or Mesa hasn't provided one. When I joined this mailing list, one of the things I learned, is that proper formulation of question considerably increases the chance of receiving an answer :) Please, be as specific as possible, do not be afraid of sharing details. For example, schematics of what exactly do You mean? How to split the encoder signal to feed in two devices - Gecko drive and PC? Or how exactly connect that PC signal to Mesa board? I would like to see a diagram of how to connect the Geckos / encoders to the Mesa card. The first one might get tricky, just like Steve mentioned, and I also think (do not rely on my opinion as I am only beginner with electronics) that additional hardware will be needed for splitting the encoder signal. I need a good understanding of things like this before I can feel comfortable with going ahead with the Mesa card. I am likely even more of a beginner. The second one is brain-dead easy - take GND of the incoming signal and connect to GND of appropriate gpio pin on Mesa card and the same for the signal lead - connect it to appropriate gpio input pin. At this point, the Pico card is looking more appealing to me. Even though I would have to completely rewire everything, at least they have a schematic so I would have a clue what I was doing. From the way You wrote Your first message I understand that You already have a working system with encoder signal going also to PC: 2012/4/6 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: My Z axis is about 10,000 lines per inch, so it uses up my available bandwidth really fast. Right now I have the Z's max speed set to a mere 3 inches per sec. My Y is 24 inches per sec, and X is 10 inches per sec. That uses up my available 71khz. So, I understand that something like Mesa's 4I30 4 channel quadrature counter card will allow me much more bandwidth to run my servos faster. What kind of 10,000 lines per inch are You talking about, if that is not encoder signal? It could be also step signal, but encoders were the only thing discussed in that message... Could You, please, expand on what exactly You have there? Where are encoders currently connected? As I have stated, the encoders are currently connected to the Geckos. Ok, great! Then could You, please, explain in a lot more detail, what is that 1 lines per inch bandwidth You were talking about? The way I initially understood this: there are 10K pulses from encoder on 1 inch travel and exceeding the velocities, mentioned in Your first post, would simply exceed the LinuxCNC's capability to read them on parport. Since there are no encoder signals on parport, I see that I have been totally wrong. I am pretty much a complete noob on this kind of stuff. Perhaps my understanding is completely wrong. All I know is I only have enough pulse bandwidth to run my servos quite slow. I thought this was based on how fast my computer can send pulses to the Geckos. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 3:40 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 9 Apr 2012, at 11:20, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: I have two wires from my power source connected to the Geckos, two wires from the geckos to power the motor, the common wire, 5v and ground for the encoder, then encoder A/B going to the Gecko, and step/dir coming from the parallel port. I think the missing information here is that you are probably using a step-dir servo drive rather than open-loop steppers or servos with LinuxCNC closing the loop. If that is the case, then I am not sure that there is any need to connect the encoders to the PCI card. Thanks Andy. I guess the problem is I don't know all the terminology. Yes, I guess that is correct. I assume the 'open-loop steppers or servos with LinuxCNC closing the loop' is the best setup? For instance, that would allow the fastest control, and double as a DRO when the power to the drives are off, correct? In which case, I don't mind rewiring the encoders. I just want whatever is best. I _think_ that the G540 firmware for the 5i25 emulates the 8(?) ground pins in a parport, which seems to waste some potentially useful IO. This matters less with a second header for the other 25 pins which I think are GPIO in that config. If the G320(?) has an f-error output then using that achieves much the same result as wiring the encoders back to LinuxCNC. I think you lost me again. :D Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 4:41 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 9 Apr 2012, at 13:09, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: All I know is I only have enough pulse bandwidth to run my servos quite slow. I thought this was based on how fast my computer can send pulses to the Geckos. If the drive is set to 1 pulses per inch and you are using software step generation then a typical base-thread rate of 30,000nS should let you move at 3 inches per second. Using hardware pulse generation you should be able to increase this, as long as the drive system can cope. Yes, the drive system should cope with much faster. Of course, I will need to test it to see what speed makes it fault. I suspect the confusion comes from the subject line referring to counting rather than pulse generation. Honestly, I really do not understand exactly how the system even works. I just knew that the axis that is geared down the most takes the most bandwidth to run (the 'Pulse rate at max speed' figure reported on the Stepconf Wizard). So I had assumed that it was based on the encoder resolution. Since the encoders are connected to the Gecko - I honestly don't know what the limitation is other than I assume that it is an issue with how fast the system can issue pulses to the Gecko. In other words, if issuing pulses to the Gecko was not a bottleneck, how fast can the Geckos count the encoder lines - as fast as needed? The Mesa 5i25 looks like a parallel port card and (in the G540 configuration) you wire it like a parallel port card. It isn't a huge problem to make a custom DB25 cable to adapt the pinouts if required. (In other configurations it can be nothing like a parallel port, and you can hook 384 lines of IO to it, or directly connect 16 30A servo drives) Sounds good. I guess I am still confused. For a open-loop servos with LinuxCNC closing the loop setup, I guess I would connect the encoders straight to the pins of the 5i22? Would they still need to be split the encoder signals and go to both the 5i22 pins and the Geckos? Peter/Mesa if you are reading this: I really want to order a card from you - last week. ;) Can you please provide me a very quick and crude wiring diagram? My email I sent to sales on Friday has gone unanswered and I am really interested in being your customer. Please give me a hand if you can. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] User Suggestions
I absolutely love LinuxCNC. I am running 2.5.0 now. Here are a few suggestions that I think will make it even better. I think most of them would be fairly trivial to implement. 1. I would love to see a percent of the tool paths remaining. 2. It would be nice if the on screen tool was a different color than the tool paths. Maybe a bit larger too. It is just really difficult to see sometimes. 3. I would love to have the option to make the 3D window full screen (maybe on a 2nd monitor too). 4. An option to not clear out the (red) tool path that has been done. 5. Some simple G-Code tools. Like rotate 90 degrees and scale. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mesa counter card?
On Apr 9, 2012, at 10:33 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I guess the problem is I don't know all the terminology. Yes, I guess that is correct. I assume the 'open-loop steppers or servos with LinuxCNC closing the loop' is the best setup? For instance, that would allow the fastest control, and double as a DRO when the power to the drives are off, correct? In which case, I don't mind rewiring the encoders. I just want whatever is best. Yes, that is what my Gecko Interface does, the encoders are powered from the Gecko interface, send signals to the Universal Stepper Controller, and also makes an opto-isolated copy for the Gecko 320 drives. It also watches the fault signal on the G320s and powers them on and off when going in and out of E-stop mode. Thanks for everyone's help. I ended up going with the Pico System's Universal Stepper Controller and Gecko Interface. I will share a build log here, and if it might be helpful, on the wiki as well. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Better than sec? Nothing is better than sec when it comes to monitoring Big Data applications. Try Boundary one-second resolution app monitoring today. Free. http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-dev2dev ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Restarting from line number
Greetings, I have no idea what happened - but I just walked past my machine, saw a dialog (didn't have time to read it) and my computer then shut itself off! Weird? I was way into a g-code file (over an hour). Is there any way to restart from line 20,000? I tried once before (for another reason) by clipping from line 7 of my g-code file to the line I wanted to restart from, but something was not right (it was in the wrong position or something even though it was homed in the correct spot). Thanks for any suggestions! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Restarting from line number
On Apr 11, 2012, at 11:14 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I have no idea what happened - but I just walked past my machine, saw a dialog (didn't have time to read it) and my computer then shut itself off! Weird? Yikes, that shouldn't be happening! Thanks Jon. Yeah - not good! This is my 5th attempt at machining this pattern, and it was going perfectly - the best yet. :'( Does anyone know how to tell what shut it off? I was poking around /var/log but there is an overwhelming number of lines to sift through, and I am not even sure what I should be looking for. I was way into a g-code file (over an hour). Is there any way to restart from line 20,000? I tried once before (for another reason) by clipping from line 7 of my g-code file to the line I wanted to restart from, but something was not right (it was in the wrong position or something even though it was homed in the correct spot). Yes, there is run from line, which generally works on linear programs. It doesn't work well on programs that have loops, subroutines, etc. Also, it needs a setting to allow the spindle, etc. to stay on during mode changes (you have to start the spindle manually in manual mode then go to auto, before doing the run from line). You select the line in the program window, although scrolling down 20,000 lines in that window may be real tedious. Scrolling there wasn't too bad. I guess I overlooked the Run from selected line option because it didn't have an icon. Alas, I didn't mark my home on the piece, so I don't think I will be able to position it properly. Lesson learned! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Restarting from line number
On Apr 11, 2012, at 11:21 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 11 Apr 2012, at 21:49, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: Is there any way to restart from line 20,000? Maybe. You will need to jog to somewhere where a move as specified in that line will be safe, then set feed rate, start the spindle etc in MDI, then left click the g-code line in the G-code window to select it, then right-click and choose run from here (I can't recall the exact phrase) Thanks Andy. So for instance, line 20001 is: X2.1429 Y17.5769 Z-0.6793 So, assuming it was homed properly, I would start the spindle (I currently have to manually switch it on), set the feed rate, then issue an MDI: G00 X2.1429 Y17.5769 Z-0.6793 Click on line 20001, and click Run from selected line? How do I set the feed rate? It isn't 100% reliable, depending on the structure of the G-code. I think it is basically a flat g-code file. I think even though I don't know the exact position it was homed to I will give it a shot. I have something to gain but nothing to lose at this point. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Restarting from line number
On Apr 12, 2012, at 12:04 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: On 11 Apr 2012, at 22:31, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: G00 X2.1429 Y17.5769 Z-0.6793 Click on line 20001, and click Run from selected line? No, because that would leave the machine in G0 mode and you almost certainly want G1. Possibly you want to G0 to the position in 1 then G1Fnn to the position in 2, where nn is the feed rate specified further up in the file. Thanks Andy, I think that would have worked perfectly had I marked my home on the piece. It was off a little, so I stopped it, moved it a tad, re-homed it and I think it is close enough now. I think I should be able to fix the mistakes with a little putty and sanding. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Restarting from line number
On Apr 12, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Viesturs Lācis wrote: 2012/4/12 Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com: Thanks Andy, I think that would have worked perfectly had I marked my home on the piece. It seems that You do not have homing switches on the machine. LinuxCNC saves the offsets in coordinate systems (G54, G55 etc), so with repeatable homing on switches, the zero point of the part would not be lost even after a hard reset. Hi Viesturs, Good point. I have the switches in place, just haven't wired them up yet. Since I ordered the Pico Universal Stepper Driver I am going to wait to wire them up to it. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Restarting from line number
On Apr 12, 2012, at 10:45 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Does anyone know how to tell what shut it off? I was poking around /var/log but there is an overwhelming number of lines to sift through, and I am not even sure what I should be looking for. If you know what time it happened, you might be able to narrow the search. Thanks Jon. Yeah, I know roughly what time it shutdown, but it seems like it created a bunch of new logs when it was rebooted. Think I might ask on the Ubuntu forms. I'd think that something that shut down the OS should leave a message. You don't have a wireless mouse, do you? Not a mouse per se, but I am using a PS3 bluetooth controller with QtSixA. Do you think that might have something to do with it? Alas, I didn't mark my home on the piece, so I don't think I will be able to position it properly. Lesson learned! That's what precise homing is for! Yes, I have limit switches installed, but waiting for you Gecko interface board to wire them up. Besides that, is there are tips to make the homing accurate? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- For Developers, A Lot Can Happen In A Second. Boundary is the first to Know...and Tell You. Monitor Your Applications in Ultra-Fine Resolution. Try it FREE! http://p.sf.net/sfu/Boundary-d2dvs2 ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 6, 2012, at 1:38 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sat, 2012-05-05 at 23:06 -0600, jeshua wrote: On May 5, 2012, at 8:14 PM, jeshua wrote: 'pcils -v' reveals: 08:00.1 Non-VGA unclassified device: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX16PCI954 (Quad 16950 UART) function 1 (parallel port) (rev 01) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c050 [size=8] I/O ports at c040 [size=8] I/O ports at c000 [size=32] I am looking at the data sheet for that chip: http://www.datasheetarchive.com/OX16PCI952-datasheet.html# It states on page 52: To use the Enhanced Parallel Port (‘EPP’) mode, the mode field of the Extended Control Register (ECR[7:5]) must be set to ‘100’ using the negotiation steps as defined by the IEEE1284 specification … The register set is compatible with the Microsoft(R) register definition. Assuming that the upper block is located 400h above the lower block, the EPP registers are found at offset 000-007h and 400-402h. Does anyone know what that actually means? Its a bit over my head. My experience has been that the lspci output lists the base and extended address for the parallel port, plus any other addresses for other features. You have UART's on your card, so my guess is that they are accessed through one address, maybe C000. Then the parallel port base at C040 and the extended register at C050, or some other order of the same addresses. I've found the dmesg command can help sort the addresses out. Here is what I get on the PC I'm typing on: kwallace@neptune:~$ dmesg | grep parp [8.614499] parport_pc 00:0c: reported by Plug and Play ACPI [8.614529] parport0: PC-style at 0x378, irq 7 [PCSPP,TRISTATE,EPP] [8.724443] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). kwallace@neptune:~$ Thanks Kirk, Actually it looks like the UARTs show up as a separate device: 08:00.0 Serial controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX16PCI954 (Quad 16950 UART) function 0 (Disabled) (rev 01) (prog-if 06) Subsystem: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd Device Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c090 [size=8] I/O ports at c080 [size=8] I/O ports at c070 [size=8] I/O ports at c060 [size=8] I/O ports at c020 [size=32] Memory at fb101000 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: serial grep filters the dmesg output to show only the lines with parp in them. You can run dmesg again without grep to see the lines close to these lines. The above shows that the module parport_pc found a port at base address 378. Your dmesg should list a port with one of the addresses from your lspci output. The extended address show also show up next to the base address but presented in parentheses. From the above dmesg, the available modes are listed within the [...], but my example shows the extended found wasn't found (because no address in (...)) because none of the extended features was selected, in this case from the BIOS because it is a motherboard port. Looks like it is in SPP mode, here is the output from dmesg: I don't see the extended either? dmesg | grep parp [8.761283] parport_pc :08:00.1: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.761347] parport0: PC-style at 0xc050, irq 18 [PCSPP] [8.846838] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). For showport enter the base and extended address options with the mode option letter next, such as: sudo ./showport C040 C050 n sudo is needed because we need root privileges to access the parallel port. ./ is often needed because I usually run showport from the directory where showport resides (./ is a Linux trick to run local files). I'm guessing at the addresses, and n makes no change. Replace the n with an e to get EPP, or as you found, place a 100 in the top three bits of the mode register. s puts the port into SPP mode. It might be better to have options for all the modes available, but that was as far as I got with the program to get what I needed at the time. If this doesn't work, posting your showport output may help. Good luck. I tried pretty much every possible combination of C040, C050 and C00 that I could think of. Here is as you suggest: sudo ./showport C040 C050 e ~ Base @ 0xc040 Extended @ 0xc050 DPR: 144 DSR: 64 DCR: 149 EPPA: 4 EPPD: 4 CFA: 4 CFB: 238 ECR: 4 ~ Setting mode to EPP ECR: 4 ~ That doesn't seem to work as well. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 6, 2012, at 5:02 PM, Jon Elson wrote: OK, in this badly trashed document (at least on my browser) : http://www.soiseek.com/OXFORD/OX16PCI954-TQC60-A1/56.htm It mentions there is a Windows utility to reprogram the options EEPROM available from Oxford Semi. No link is provided. Page 72 of that doc has some email addresses. Thanks everyone for all the information. I have never written to an EEPROM before, so I think I would rather order another card to spare the expense of small pci card. The card did come with a mini-CD, and only had drivers for Windows. Their linux driver is actually a kernel patch which really isn't much of an option. Can anyone recommend some cards that are known to work with your or Kirk Wallace's utilities? I looked for the same cards listed on the Wiki and the exact models are not available any longer. I found a number of close matches on Amazon, but I would like to be sure to get something that I know I can get working. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 6, 2012, at 9:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I have never written to an EEPROM before, so I think I would rather order another card to spare the expense of small pci card. You don't have to know what you are doing, if you can get the config utility for that card, you just set the options you want and hit go. Hi Jon, Wow, sounds like even I could handle that. Assuming of course that I have access to Windows running somewhere, correct? I am currently Windowless and would like to keep it that way if at all possible. ;) Hmm unless it runs in Wine. Can anyone recommend some cards that are known to work with your or Kirk Wallace's utilities? Siig definitely work, although I have only used their PCI cards, not PCI-e. Older NetMos-containing cards mostly do NOT work, although supposedly their latest NM9865 do. You are somewhat going out beyond most experience with PCI-e. I guess I didn't even realize that. PCI works fine for me. Here are a few from SIIG, do any look better than an other? http://www.amazon.com/Single-Parallel-epp-ecp-Port/dp/B000G6U5NA/ref=sr_1_12?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1336282936sr=1-12 http://www.amazon.com/SIIG-IO1844-CyberParallel-Dual-Card/dp/B4XRDU/ref=sr_1_2?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1336362682sr=1-2 http://www.amazon.com/Pci-High-Speed-Parallel-Port/dp/B000FOL6PY/ref=sr_1_7?s=electronicsie=UTF8qid=1336362789sr=1-7 Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 6, 2012, at 9:55 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Can anyone recommend some cards that are known to work with your or Kirk Wallace's utilities? Siig definitely work, although I have only used their PCI cards, not PCI-e. Older NetMos-containing cards mostly do NOT work, although supposedly their latest NM9865 do. You are somewhat going out beyond most experience with PCI-e. BTW: apparently my current card is PCI, not PCI-e: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MY45WS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03 Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 7, 2012, at 4:31 AM, Schooner wrote: Came to this thread late on, I have a copy of the Oxford mode setting utility from when I used one of their cards. Have posted it here http://www.linuxcnc.org/images/fbfiles/files/oxprom.zip Thanks for that. Well the good news is that utility runs in Wine. The bad news is the utility doesn't see the PCI card. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 7, 2012, at 11:30 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: I found this link, which might be handy too: http://www.startech.com/Cards-Adapters/Parallel/1-Port-Parallel-Dual-Voltage-Dual-Profile-PCI-Card~PCI1PECPDV#dnlds I had came across that before, but didn't even think about looking for a DOS utility. I now have a working FreeDOS boot CD. I ran the utility from FreeDOS and it doesn't see the card either. I am thinking I must have messed the card up by changing stuff with the EPP utilities I tried. :'( Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 7, 2012, at 8:04 PM, Jon Elson wrote: BTW: apparently my current card is PCI, not PCI-e: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000MY45WS/ref=oh_details_o00_s00_i03 Somehow I got the idea from one of the lspci reports that your board was pci-e. The Startech boards were reported to work by some other people in EPP mode, but maybe this one is a new version. I imagine it would work if I could just flip the right bits. I just installed my new Siig card and I am not having much better luck so far. Launching LinuxCNC did not switch it to EPP mode. I looked and the only DOS driver it came with is OXSER. I don't see any mode options - but it has burning mode. The read-me is attached below. Here is what lspci reveals: 08:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX9162 Mode 0 (parallel port) (prog-if 03) Subsystem: Siig Inc Device 2020 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c030 [size=8] I/O ports at c020 [size=4] I/O ports at c000 [size=32] Memory at fb10 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: parport_pc Kernel modules: parport_pc I have tried your or Kirk Wallace's utilities yet because I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I break something. Any suggestions? Usage: OXSER [IO=] [INT=] [TEST=] [BURN=] [TX=] [TIME=] Option: IO : set the start address of Oxford UART port Note: This address maybe ISA or PCI IO . ex: IO=3F8 (hex) INT : set the interrupt of Oxford UART port. ex: INT=A (hex) TEST: Set UART port to test mode(default: 9600 , 8N1) ex: TEST=1 BURN: Burning mode for all UART ports. ex: BURN=1 (0: disable, 1:enable) TX : Set the burning data length. (Kilobyte) TIME: Set the burning time.(minute) Example: OXSER -- Set port1 and port2 to COM3 and COM4, respectively. OXSER IO=3E8 -- Set port1=3E0(COM4), port2=3E8(*COM3), port3=3F0, port4=3F8(*COM1) OXSER IO=2E8 INT=A -- Set port1=2E0(COM3), port2=2E8(*COM4), port3=2F0, port4=2F8(*COM2) and IRQ=A OXSER TEST=1 -- Set port1 to test mode which listen from serial and keyboard. Dump the data from serial and send out the data from keyboard. Note: Default setting is 9600bps , 8N1 OXSER BURN=1 -- Please loopback all ports before start this mode. OXSER BURN=1 TX=10 -- Burning willn't be terminated until the length of tx data is over 10KB. OXSER BURN=1 TIME=10 -- Burning will be run for 10 minutes. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 8, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I just installed my new Siig card and I am not having much better luck so far. Launching LinuxCNC did not switch it to EPP mode. Here is what lspci reveals: 08:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX9162 Mode 0 (parallel port) (prog-if 03) Subsystem: Siig Inc Device 2020 Flags: medium devsel, IRQ 18 I/O ports at c030 [size=8] I/O ports at c020 [size=4] I/O ports at c000 [size=32] Memory at fb10 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: access denied Kernel driver in use: parport_pc Kernel modules: parport_pc I have tried your or Kirk Wallace's utilities yet because I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I break something. Well, I don't know. I didn't have to do anything to make it work on the samples I had here. Are you sure you know the right parallel port addresses for the board? Hi Jon, Yes, well at least I think so. What address could it be besides c030? How do you know it did not go to EPP mode? I guess I don't know for sure. Your 'univstepdiag' program gives me a 'Segmentation fault' error and the output from dmesg after attempting to start LinuxCNC is: [8.519908] parport_pc :08:00.0: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.520179] parport0: PC-style at 0xc030 (0xc020), irq 18, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP] [8.620688] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). Here's what I get on a Siig card that does work. Command was : sudo lspci -vv Here is the output of my card with those flags: 08:00.0 Parallel controller: Oxford Semiconductor Ltd OX9162 Mode 0 (parallel port) (prog-if 03) Subsystem: Siig Inc Device 2020 Control: I/O+ Mem+ BusMaster- SpecCycle- MemWINV- VGASnoop- ParErr- Stepping- SERR- FastB2B- DisINTx- Status: Cap+ 66MHz- UDF- FastB2B+ ParErr- DEVSEL=medium TAbort- TAbort- MAbort- SERR- PERR- INTx- Interrupt: pin A routed to IRQ 18 Region 0: I/O ports at c030 [size=8] Region 1: I/O ports at c020 [size=4] Region 2: I/O ports at c000 [size=32] Region 3: Memory at fb10 (32-bit, non-prefetchable) [size=4K] Capabilities: [40] Power Management version 1 Flags: PMEClk- DSI- D1- D2+ AuxCurrent=0mA PME(D0+,D1-,D2+,D3hot+,D3cold-) Status: D0 PME-Enable- DSel=0 DScale=0 PME- Kernel driver in use: parport_pc Kernel modules: parport_pc Nowhere in there do I see anything that indicates whether it is, or isn't, in EPP mode. And, of course, there is the possibility that there is something wrong with your USC board. Do you test the USC boards before you send them out? If so the board should be fine. I have not applied any power to it other than the 9v wall wart and that has only been wired up correctly. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 8, 2012, at 8:33 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I just installed my new Siig card and I am not having much better luck so far. Launching LinuxCNC did not switch it to EPP mode. I have tried your or Kirk Wallace's utilities yet because I want to make sure I know what I am doing before I break something. Well, I don't know. I didn't have to do anything to make it work on the samples I had here. Are you sure you know the right parallel port addresses for the board? How do you know it did not go to EPP mode? Here's what I get on a Siig card that does work. Command was : sudo lspci -vv HI Jon, So, I noticed when linuxcnc fails to launch, it states this in the Kernel message information: PPMC: ERROR: no boards found on bus 0, port 0378. I thought that was curious since I have never specified the port in the linux config files that I knew of. Is there somewhere I need to specify the port for LinuxCNC? cat linuxcnc_debug.txt Can not find -sec MOT -var MOT -num 1 Can not find -sec IO -var IO -num 1 Can not find -sec LINUXCNC -var NML_FILE -num 1 Can not find -sec EMC -var NML_FILE -num 1 17887 PID TTY STAT TIME COMMAND Stopping realtime threads Unloading hal components cat linuxcnc_print.txt RUN_IN_PLACE=no LINUXCNC_DIR= LINUXCNC_BIN_DIR=/usr/bin LINUXCNC_TCL_DIR=/usr/lib/tcltk/linuxcnc LINUXCNC_SCRIPT_DIR= LINUXCNC_RTLIB_DIR=/usr/realtime-2.6.32-122-rtai/modules/linuxcnc LINUXCNC_CONFIG_DIR= LINUXCNC_LANG_DIR=/usr/share/linuxcnc/tcl/msgs INIVAR=inivar HALCMD=halcmd LINUXCNC_EMCSH=/usr/bin/wish8.5 INIFILE=/home/jeshua/linuxcnc/configs/pico-univstep/univstep.ini PARAMETER_FILE=univstep.var TASK=milltask HALUI= DISPLAY=axis Starting LinuxCNC server program: linuxcncsvr Loading Real Time OS, RTAPI, and HAL_LIB modules Starting LinuxCNC IO program: io Killing task linuxcncsvr, PID=17887 Removing HAL_LIB, RTAPI, and Real Time OS modules Removing NML shared memory segments I couldn't figure out how to copy the text from the LinuxCNC window, so here is an image of it. You can see that it states port 0378: http://3DTOPO.com/emc-kernel-info.png Could that be part of the problem? Here is the dmesg: [8.519908] parport_pc :08:00.0: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.520179] parport0: PC-style at 0xc030 (0xc020), irq 18, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP] [8.620688] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 8, 2012, at 11:07 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 22:26 -0600, Jeshua Lacock wrote: ... snip Here is the dmesg: [8.519908] parport_pc :08:00.0: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.520179] parport0: PC-style at 0xc030 (0xc020), irq 18, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP] [8.620688] lp0: using parport0 (interrupt-driven). My experience has been that the above is showing that the PCI card parallel port base address is at 0xC030 and the extended register address is at 0xC020. If you put these addresses into showport: sudo ./showport C030 C020 n The output should show an ECR value less than 128 if the port is in SPP or greater if in EPP. Changing the n to e should set EPP if it isn't already. Hi Kirk, Thanks. I get an ECR of 53. Once you get an ECR value greater that 127, you can test it with Jon's diagnostic program or run LinuxCNC. Looks good - I get an ECR of 149. The 0x0378 address you may see is most often the address for the motherboard parallel port, with an extended register address of 778 (but the extended register could have a different address). I see. As far as I know, there isn't a parallel port on the motherboard though. Weird? Alas, I still get a fault: univstepdiags c030 bus io addr = c030 parport addr 0xc030 Segmentation fault LinuxCNC fails to start with the same message as before. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 8, 2012, at 11:48 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Tue, 2012-05-08 at 23:33 -0600, Jeshua Lacock wrote: ... snip Alas, I still get a fault: univstepdiags c030 bus io addr = c030 parport addr 0xc030 Segmentation fault LinuxCNC fails to start with the same message as before. Did you use sudo? sudo ./univdiags c030 bus Ooops! Forgot to run it as super user. When I do…. it works!!! univstepdiags c030 bus io addr = c030 parport addr 0xc030 Bus Map Board Addr Type Ver. 0Univ. Stepper3 Thank you thank you thank you! OK! Now I will start testing it. Anyone have an idea what to look for? In other words what would cause LinuxCNC to crash from the USC? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 9, 2012, at 3:56 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 9 May 2012 07:37, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: OK! Now I will start testing it. Anyone have an idea what to look for? In other words what would cause LinuxCNC to crash from the USC? It isn't crashing, I suspect, so muchas gracefully giving up. (segmentation fault is a crash, exiting because it can't find the board is a graceful exit due to misconfiguration) What does your HAL file have on the line which includes loadrt hal_ppmc (From http://www.linuxcnc.org/docview/html/drivers/pico_ppmc.html ) You need the port_addr to match the address from lspci. Hi Andy, Aha! There is no port number specified. I added the port and it loads fine now, thank you! And thanks for the link to that page, it looks like it will prove to be quite useful. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Setting EPP Mode
On May 9, 2012, at 4:10 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 9 May 2012 22:58, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: Aha! There is no port number specified. I added the port and it loads fine now, thank you! I wonder if the original card also works fine with the port address put in? I would guess not based on dmesg from the new card: [8.519908] parport_pc :08:00.0: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.520179] parport0: PC-style at 0xc030 (0xc020), irq 18, using FIFO [PCSPP,TRISTATE,COMPAT,EPP,ECP] Compared to dmesg from the old card: [8.761283] parport_pc :08:00.1: PCI INT A - GSI 18 (level, low) - IRQ 18 [8.761347] parport0: PC-style at 0xc050, irq 18 [PCSPP] The new one says EPP, the old says SPP... Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Tuning Pico USC
Greetings, I now mostly have my new Pico System's Universal Stepper Controller (USC) and Gecko Interface working with my Gecko 320 drives. When I first got it going, my X and Z drives jumped repeatedly until I turned the damping up. But my Y drive keeps jumping even with the damping and gain at max. I tried various combinations of gain and damping, but no matter what I do (unless the limit is set to all but off) I can't seem to get the Y drive to dither. The X and Z motors are smallish 20-volt servos (plan on upgrading them soon), and my Y is a 90-volt Keling KL34-180-90: http://www.kelinginc.net/ServoMotors.html Before I wired up the USC, I was able to get the servo to dither and work normally. There are a ton of settings in the hal files, but I have no idea what might need tweaking. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tuning Pico USC
P.S. The encoders are working for all axises in DRO mode. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Tuning Pico USC
On May 16, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Greetings, I now mostly have my new Pico System's Universal Stepper Controller (USC) and Gecko Interface working with my Gecko 320 drives. When I first got it going, my X and Z drives jumped repeatedly until I turned the damping up. But my Y drive keeps jumping even with the damping and gain at max. I tried various combinations of gain and damping, but no matter what I do (unless the limit is set to all but off) I can't seem to get the Y drive to dither. Does it do this jumping if you hit F1 (out of E-stop) but not F2 (machine on)? If so, then there must be something wrong with the encoder signal path through the Gecko Interface. Hi Jon, Yes, and you are correct, I apparently had the A/B signals crossed somewhere. I can now command all three axises to move in the closed loop mode! However, in open loop mode, without power to the servos it is stable and works as a DRO. In open loop mode with power on I see the DRO jitter around +/-0.0005 which I assume is normal dithering behavior. But shortly after I hit F2 I get a fault and error message joint following error X. I assume I need to increase the error tolerance? Any idea why this only happens in open loop mode? If not, then it is a servo tuning issue in LinuxCNC, not in the Gecko drive. You do have to tune these servos. When you say it jumps, does in move some distance and then trip a fault on the Gecko or following error in EMC? If so, the OUTPUT_SCALE parameter in the [AXIS_1] section of the .ini file may need to be flipped to the opposite sign. If it is just rough, turn the P parameter down in that section. Then, you need to do the whole tuning procedure. See the writeup in the wiki http://wiki.linuxcnc.org/cgi-bin/wiki.pl?PWM_Servo_Amplifiers That will prove to be very useful for the next saga! This was written for my PWM servo amps, but all the same info applies. You need to get familiar with Halscope, if you aren't already, and observe the response of the system to jog commands. If you get stuck, you can send me a screenshot of the halscope screen and I'll try to interpret what is happening. Great, thank you! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Increase Damping
Greetings, I seem to have the damping turned all the way up on my Gecko 320, but it is still underdamped. Is it possible to increase damping with the PID settings (I am using the Pico Systems USC board)? Would gearing down my drive further help with damping if I it is not possible to increase it any other way? Thanks for any suggestions! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping
On May 19, 2012, at 6:55 PM, Jon Elson wrote: I seem to have the damping turned all the way up on my Gecko 320, but it is still underdamped. Is it possible to increase damping with the PID settings (I am using the Pico Systems USC board)? Would gearing down my drive further help with damping if I it is not possible to increase it any other way? Are you sure it is the G320 that is underdamped, or the whole system response, including LinuxCNC? Some amount of additional D in the PID should damp it further, maybe. But, maybe you just need to turn down the gain on the G320 and let LinuxCNC handle more of the gain. Hi Jon, Well lets just say the only thing that I am sure about is the drive is under-damped. ;) Tuning is proving to be insanely difficult for me, I guess mostly because I don't really have much of a clue what I am doing. It is also kind of scary because if I turn a POT on the Gecko just a tad in the wrong way the drive violently rattles the whole table. When it was just the Gecko, that was something I had a grip on. But now it is a combination of the Gecko and the PID settings. It may be that I am just trying to accelerate the drive faster than the system can adequately damp it. This gantry is probably close to 200 pounds, and I just don't know how fast I can expect to be able to accelerate it. Does gearing a drive help with this? I seems in my mind it should. Gearing it down further would give me increased torque and resolution so seems like a win win. In the meantime, I will try turning the gain POT down and the D up? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping
On May 19, 2012, at 11:34 PM, Steve Stallings wrote: Is this a G320 or a G320X? If it is a G320X there are internal DIP switches that can be used to reduce the torque gain which might help with stability. Do your encoders have selectable resolution? A lower resolution might also help tame the excessive response. Hi Steve, Thanks for the suggestions! But it is an older G320, and I currently have a fixed resolution on the encoder which is 1024 CPR. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping
On May 20, 2012, at 1:56 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Well lets just say the only thing that I am sure about is the drive is under-damped. ;) Tuning is proving to be insanely difficult for me, I guess mostly because I don't really have much of a clue what I am doing. It is also kind of scary because if I turn a POT on the Gecko just a tad in the wrong way the drive violently rattles the whole table. When it was just the Gecko, that was something I had a grip on. But now it is a combination of the Gecko and the PID settings. So, first you need to tune the Gecko, by itself, so that it works OK. Set DIP switches 1-4 to OFF, to go to open-loop mode. This allows you to generate step pulses without LinuxCNC trying to respond to the movement. Thanks Jon. Actually, I really have only been using open-loop mode. I am a little confused however because changing the PID settings still seems to affect the drive. Get the drives set stably, and you may just want to turn down the gain setting until it is stable. Gain is not so critical, as you will be increasing it when you go to closed-loop mode. Once the Gecko is working OK in the open-loop mode, set the switches to ON, and observe performance. I do have the drives working stably, just the X gantry is underdamped unless I turn the acceleration way down. But as soon as I try closed loop mode, I get a ton of noise and the drive is super jittery. It starts nearly stable but seems to run away until it faults. When I say run away it becomes increasingly jittery. Start with low settings of P, and minimal I and D. Increase P in small steps until the following error gets better, and then add a bit of I and D to get the best performance. That procedure is described in the document I sent the link to. The sample .ini file uses two different values for 2 different axises. When you say low P settings, what would you start with? And what I and D is good to start with? Also, what would you consider small steps to increase for P, I and D? It may be that I am just trying to accelerate the drive faster than the system can adequately damp it. This gantry is probably close to 200 pounds, and I just don't know how fast I can expect to be able to accelerate it. Yes, possibly. You might put an amp meter in the motor wires and see how much it draws, but you can actually detect this with Halscope. By slowly increasing the acceleration until following error spikes, you will know the acceleration the system is capable of. When the error spikes, wouldn't that also indicate that it needs more gain and or damping? Does gearing a drive help with this? I seems in my mind it should. Gearing it down further would give me increased torque and resolution so seems like a win win. Yes. Gearing down increases torque at the leadscrew. The only downside is that the motor rotational inertia is increased by the gearing down. To reach the same linear speed, the motor needs to accelerate X times faster, where X is the reduction ratio. But, when you simply run out of torque, then the reduction helps. But, there's no way to know for sure whether this is really your problem. Note that I am using pulleys and timing belts for all my axises except for the Z. I see. Currently my main gantry moves about 2 inches for one motor rotation (which is geared 4:1). I just ordered Kelling's 5:1 planetary gear which would make it geared 20:1 with the current pinion (12 tooth) or 10:1 with a 24 tooth pinion... Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping
On May 20, 2012, at 7:08 PM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Actually, I really have only been using open-loop mode. Since we had confusion here, open loop means LinuxCNC does not see movement when you move the motors. Hi Jon, That is correct. But as soon as I try closed loop mode, I get a ton of noise and the drive is super jittery. It starts nearly stable but seems to run away until it faults. When I say run away it becomes increasingly jittery. So, reduce P, and reduce I and D proportionally. You can reduce P to 1.0 and I and D to zero to start out, and then increase P just until you get movement. Make sure it is moving the right way to null out error, then increase P in modest steps until you get controlled movement. Error will remain a bit large at this point. Then, increase P until you get some vibrations, and add a bit of D to improve stability. Thank you so much for this! I was starting with the default settings in the .ini file. Putting these numbers in immediately made the drive stable - even in closed loop which is now what I am tuning. I was able to get the P up to 150. I can add some D, but it seems that it only makes the drive more jittery without decreasing the error. Can you tell me what exactly is the goal? Do I want the P as high was possible while keeping it stable? In other words, why not just leave P at 50 or 100 and be done with it? And, it may be that you are having feedback from the G320 drive's PWM outputs to the encoder cables. This may be what is causing the increasingly jittery effect. Do you have shielded encoder cables? Yes. Do the shields need to be grounded to be useful? Are you using US Digital encoders that are known to be noise sensitive? Not on this first axis I am trying to tune. It is a Renco. My other two axises are US Digital, but those will be replaced by CUI AMT102 encoders when I get around to installing the new much more powerful motors for the other 2 axises. You may need to use shielded motor power cables as well. The G320 has no filtering on the outputs, so whatever your DC supply voltage is, that is being chopped at 20 KHz by the G320, producing ~70 V pulses with 100 ns risetime edges continuously on the motor wires. That's why I put an LC filter on the output of all my drives to prevent this type of interference. I just went ahead and ordered some differential encoder/decoders just to be safe. Due to the size of the machine they are pretty long cables, I would guess around 15 feet. Also, I routed my motor power lines as separately as I could. My encoders exit the machine on the left side and the power on the right. The sample .ini file uses two different values for 2 different axises. When you say low P settings, what would you start with? And what I and D is good to start with? Also, what would you consider small steps to increase for P, I and D? You can go as low as 1.0 for P, and zero for I and D. You can leave I zero all the time, but as you raise P, you will need some D. Too much D can be disastrous. It takes instantaneous following error and compares it to the following error last servo period. This can have large fluctuations due to the position quantization of the encoder PLUS the time quantization (sampling) of the encoder reading. So, there is a HUGE amount of noise in this D term at 1/2 the sampling rate. So, you want to use just enough D to help smooth out the response. I usually increase D by 20% steps when I don't know what to expect, and maybe 50% when I have a good idea where I will run into instability. Have the E-stop button handy. Don't worry about I during tuning, it has minimal effect on stability. D is more sensitive. I typically find D needs to be between 5 - 10% of P, not sure if this number applies as much to the G320/USC setups. A rough set of number I use when testing the Gecko Interface board with an What is the goal with I once P and D are good? old G320 drive and small motor is : MAX_VELOCITY = 1.20 MAX_ACCELERATION = 20.0 PID_MAX_VEL = 1.25 BACKLASH = 0.000 INPUT_SCALE = 4000 OUTPUT_SCALE = 1.000 MIN_LIMIT = -10.0 MAX_LIMIT = 10.0 FERROR = 0.0100 MIN_FERROR = 0.05 DEADBAND = 0.0007 P = 200 I = 2 D =5 BIAS = 0 FF0 = 0 FF1 = 1.2 FF2 = 0.0045 Interesting, I can't seem to get D anywhere near that high. With P at 150 or 200, it gets real jittery with a D of over 0.5. When the error spikes, wouldn't that also indicate that it needs more gain and or damping? If the drive has suddenly run out of torque (current limit) or voltage (hit the DC supply
[Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
Greetings, I turned on the power to my system today and my 180 pound gantry shot full speed crashing hard into the end of my table. It hit with so much force it actually lifted the front two legs of the 500+ pound table 6+ inches off the floor! Yikes! Luckily the machine only suffered minor damage, but needless to say I really would like to avoid this from ever happening again. I was a stumped at first as the last time I used it everything was stable. It turns out that I had a loose connection to the encoder. I am going to soldier the wires on the pins of the encoder to prevent that from happening again, but I was wondering if there is anything I can do to disable motor power in the event a connection to a encoder is lost. I understand why it happened - without the encoder live the motor was just attempting to position itself at 0. I am guessing there is not an easy way to detect this condition, but I wanted to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Increase Damping
On May 21, 2012, at 10:36 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Putting these numbers in immediately made the drive stable - even in closed loop which is now what I am tuning. I was able to get the P up to 150. I can add some D, but it seems that it only makes the drive more jittery without decreasing the error. Well, then lower the D until the loop is stable. At some point, too LITTLE D will also start to make it jittery, there should be a valley where it is good. Thanks Jon! I am actually going to wait until I get the new 5:1 gear box installed before I tune things further, but there is one last thing I don't really have a grasp on. It felt like I wanted to get P set as high as I could. Is that correct? Or as long as P is high enough to command the machine to move is that adequate? Can you tell me what exactly is the goal? Do I want the P as high was possible while keeping it stable? In other words, why not just leave P at 50 or 100 and be done with it? Yes, sure. Once you have good, stable response where the following error is fairly low in the cruise portion of a move, then apply FF1 to make the error nearly zero there, then add tiny amounts of FF2 to reduce the error in the accel/decel ramps. You should be able to get the error quite small, although with your encoder resolution (I'm guessing from some numbers you gave before that it is about 2000 counts/inch) you may not be able to get below .002 or so under all conditions. That's probably OK for a router, and already less than the overall accuracy and backlash of the mechanical part. Got it, thanks! And, it may be that you are having feedback from the G320 drive's PWM outputs to the encoder cables. This may be what is causing the increasingly jittery effect. Do you have shielded encoder cables? Yes. Do the shields need to be grounded to be useful? Of course. You should ground the shield at the control end only, so either the USC or the Gecko interface. Thanks! So I use the ground from either the USC or Gecko? Are you using US Digital encoders that are known to be noise sensitive? Not on this first axis I am trying to tune. It is a Renco. My other two axises are US Digital, but those will be replaced by CUI AMT102 encoders when I get around to installing the new much more powerful motors for the other 2 axises. Hmmm, the AMT encoders have a lag in responding to acceleration, but it isn't as bad as I originally thought. It seems to help to use less than the maximum resolution the encoder can provide. Good to know! I guess I will set it for 1024 (instead of 2048) to start. I just went ahead and ordered some differential encoder/decoders just to be safe. Due to the size of the machine they are pretty long cables, I would guess around 15 feet. OK, that's a good plan. Also, I routed my motor power lines as separately as I could. My encoders exit the machine on the left side and the power on the right. That should also help, although shielded encoder cables can be routed next to motor cables in most cases. At least with my drives, that is fine, but they have the filters on the output. Also good to know! What is the goal with I once P and D are good? Well, that's the problem. I works great in a steady-state system, but CNC never is steady-state for long. It looks back in time at the average error over some period and applies a correction. But, as soon as the axis reverses, the correction is now in the wrong direction! There are a bunch of other places where I also fails, such as the change from accel to cruise to decel, or when the cutter is cutting vs. out of the cut. So, I would not work very hard with tuning I, and use it sparingly. If you want, you can try setting I to 10% of P and see how it works. But, if the other params (P, D, FF1 and FF2) have reduced error to a good minimum, then the I term really has no error to work on, and is benign. Thanks for the most understandable explanation of I that I have read yet! Interesting, I can't seem to get D anywhere near that high. With P at 150 or 200, it gets real jittery with a D of over 0.5. Well, this all depends on INPUT_SCALE, motor response and inertia, and all sorts of other things, both software and mechanical. Don't think that your numbers should match mine, as the motor to encoder link is so critical to the whole response. One thing is if there is any backlash between the motor and the machine part to be moved, it really complicates the tuning. Whenever the gear, or whatever, taps from one side to the other of the backlash, it creates a big impulse to the system. I see. Currently, since I am only using pulleys with timing belts (no gears or lead screws per se), I was under the impression that backlash is nearly non-exisistent. Is that true? My z-axis is pulleys with a ballscrew. Of course as soon as I install the 5:1
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
On May 23, 2012, at 1:36 AM, Lester Caine wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: I am guessing there is not an easy way to detect this condition, but I wanted to see if anyone else has any thoughts on the subject. I would have thought that if the motor turned more than 1/2 a turn or so but the encoder feed produced no pulses then this would be an easily detected error condition? If you are getting pulses from one channel only, then that is very easily detected ... Surely a 'runaway' like this SHOULD be handled by the servo driver? Is there a market for a module to monitor the two encoder feeds and us it in conjunction with either the index pulse or an extra source that indicates that the encoder should be giving output? Hi Lester, I am not *sure* what wire was loose, but I *suspect* that the encoder lost power…. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
On May 23, 2012, at 1:11 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote: I'm no expert on this, but I think there should be a secondary limit switch connected to a relay and a power resistor. If this is activated, it will connect the motor directly across the resistor. The resistor should be matched so that the motor will halt in two or three inches from full speed. This would be a safegaurd outside any electronic control. Of course, this would only apply to DC motors, but for AC motors you could have a similar set-up with a DC power supply. Hi Roland, Interesting idea. The only downside of something like this is that I would lose 6 inches of machine space, so it would be better if the motor never even ran away in the first place. Jon, can your power switch and braking module (and/or the brake on the Gecko Interface) be used like for something like this? http://pico-systems.com/osc2.5/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=3products_id=24 Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
On May 23, 2012, at 2:01 AM, Claude Froidevaux wrote: 1) make a hal check, that disable drive if more than 5-10 consecutive sample period with maximum drive output without any encoder change 2) if you use a hal encoder (brushless motor), use it as second encoder, and cut motor power if more than about 20° of error between both theses are not perfect solution, but are quite simple. Hi Claude, Sounds great, thanks! Is there anyway you can show me a hal sample or point me in the right direction? I don't have much hal experience at all. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Redundancy?
On May 23, 2012, at 8:45 PM, Jon Elson wrote: I think a very simple circuit, largely analog plus some one shots and a logic gate could do it. Probably 3 chips per axis. Some RC feeding an opto-coupler, a 74HC123 and a gate package. If the output to the motor exceeds some value (maybe 5 V) for some short time, and there are no pulses on BOTH encoder signals, that is a fault, and it trips the E-stop. Parts cost should be about $3 per axis, in single quantities. Hi Jon, Sounds perfect! Sign me up! ;) Would you be interested in designing and building me a few? Just let me know what it might cost (on or off list is fine with me). I don't mind paying to develop it and you could open source the schematic or keep it to yourself. The only other solution (more of a work-around really) I have been able to think of is before I power on the servo PSU check to make sure the DRO is working, then power on. Then when the machine is on, the HAL settings provided by Andy would detect if a encoder goes offline while running. Certainly not as ideal as a automated install and forget system in place, but not a overly painful startup process either. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Encoder Interference
Greetings, I am now setting up my new X axis servo with an AMT 102 encoder. The motor is normally dithering between 0.0003 and 0.0006 inches. But every now and then - for no obvious reason it jumps up to 0.02+ inches and doesn't attempt to return to the correct location. It just jumps randomly. I think it must be interference. The cable is double shielded and the shields are grounded to the encoder ground the length of the cable outside my enclosure. I am suspecting the interference is inside the enclosure where there are unshielded encoder and power wires. I was thinking of carefully wrapping aluminum foil around the power wires and grounding them, then shrink-wrapping or covering the aluminum with electrical tape. Would I want to ground the power wire shield to the power supply ground or the encoder ground? Do you think this might help? Anyone have any other suggestions? I wish I could see magnetic fields! Short of that, at times like this I wish I had a magnet implant like this guy that can feel magnetic fields: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087?currentPage=all Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 4:50 AM, Jan de Kruyf wrote: did you twist the powerwires of the motor together to minimize stray magnetic fields from the cable? I did not know about that! I guess that will be my first cause of action…. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 5:44 AM, gene heskett wrote: On Saturday, May 26, 2012 07:12:02 AM Jeshua Lacock did opine: Greetings, I am now setting up my new X axis servo with an AMT 102 encoder. The motor is normally dithering between 0.0003 and 0.0006 inches. But every now and then - for no obvious reason it jumps up to 0.02+ inches and doesn't attempt to return to the correct location. It just jumps randomly. I think it must be interference. The cable is double shielded and the shields are grounded to the encoder ground the length of the cable outside my enclosure. I am suspecting the interference is inside the enclosure where there are unshielded encoder and power wires. You should have a 'star' ground system, where some bolt in the main housing, which is connected to the 3rd pin ground of the powerline, and all shielding is connected to that, as are all the common ground wires from the rest of the system. Connecting the other end of the shielding to the encoders ground will make a ground loop, and when you allow that current to flow on your shielding, all bets are off. So connect the shielding at that designated bolt and nowhere else. Connect the commons from the motor supplies to this same bolt. Anything that needs grounded should also be grounded at that bolt and no place else. That bolt should also be the only place an earthen ground is connected. Hi Gene, OK, so I just checked and the entire aluminum enclosure is grounded to the same earth ground (3rd prong of the AC outlet) as the PSU for the servos. If I understand you correctly, you are suggesting the encoder cable shield be grounded to the same earth ground? Jon had recommended that I ground them to the DC encoder ground if I understood him correctly. Currently the encoder cable shield is only connected at the enclosure side and to the encoder power DC ground. I was thinking of carefully wrapping aluminum foil around the power wires and grounding them, then shrink-wrapping or covering the aluminum with electrical tape. Probably will not work because of the difficulty of making a good connection to the foil that lasts more than a few minutes. When dealing with alu, the only reliable connection is called a gas tight connection. alu is a VERY reactive metal in the presence of the O2 in the air, oxidizing rapidly enough when exposed to the air by scratching it, a film of oxide which is a perfect insulator with a breakdown voltage of 40 volts or so, will be formed in 0.001 seconds. Give it some chemical help and its good to around 500 volts! Hmm, my aluminum enclosure is years old and conducts electricity just fine. Use shielded wire for critical signals inside the cubical too. That would basically mean I would have to rewire the entire box, so hopefully I don't have to resort to such drastic measures. Would I want to ground the power wire shield to the power supply ground or the encoder ground? Do you think this might help? See above, all grounds should 'radiate' like a star from one common point. do not use a shield to take a ground someplace, run a separate piece of normal wire that is connected to this common bolt. I actually have all my earth ground connected to a terminal block, and that terminal block is connected to the enclosure. Do you think that is essentially the same thing? Anyone have any other suggestions? I wish I could see magnetic fields! Short of that, at times like this I wish I had a magnet implant like this guy that can feel magnetic fields: http://www.wired.com/gadgets/mods/news/2006/06/71087?currentPage=all Chuckle, that would be nice. I understand that pigeons sense that somehow. But they don't speak english... Here is a really cool video visualizing what magnetic fields would look like if we could see them: http://www.todayandtomorrow.net/2008/06/02/magnetic-movie/ Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 9:49 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Greetings, I am now setting up my new X axis servo with an AMT 102 encoder. The motor is normally dithering between 0.0003 and 0.0006 inches. But every now and then - for no obvious reason it jumps up to 0.02+ inches and doesn't attempt to return to the correct location. It just jumps randomly. I think it must be interference. Does this position change show up on the LinuxCNC DRO display, or are you reading it with a mechanical indicator? One possible cause is that interference is being read differently by the USC board and the G320, leading to a difference in position between the two. But, the PID algorithm should cause LinuxCNC to command a move to null out the error. If LinuxCNC got false counts due to interference, then you would get a discrepancy between displayed and actual machine position. Yes, it shows up on the DRO and the machine physically moves. So I guess they agree. The cable is double shielded and the shields are grounded to the encoder ground the length of the cable outside my enclosure. I am suspecting the interference is inside the enclosure where there are unshielded encoder and power wires. Yes, keep these separated. it is best practice to ground the shield only at the end where the signal is being received, ie. the control box. It is. I was thinking of carefully wrapping aluminum foil around the power wires and grounding them, then shrink-wrapping or covering the aluminum with electrical tape. Yes, this may help. but, a short length of exposed wire may not be the cause, unless it is really close to noisy power wires. Noise on the cable shield has a MUCH higher ability to couple noise, as it contacts the wire intimately for the entire length. That makes sense. I just checked and I have continuity of the encoder DC ground from the beginning of the shield all the way to the encoder. The problem is the power wires are really close given their position on the Gecko terminals. The drive in question has all 3 Gecko power lines running right under it. I think this might be the problem. Here is a pic of inside my enclosure: http://3DTOPO.com/CNC-enclosure.png Don't judge me too harshly, I was making sure everything works before I finish tiding things up! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! Would I want to ground the power wire shield to the power supply ground or the encoder ground? Do you think this might help? Shields for the power wires should NOT be grounded to the signal-sensing components, but to a different shield location. OK, so that should be the PSU DC ground then? Or the earthen ground? Anyone have any other suggestions? I wish I could see magnetic fields! Well, with an oscilloscope, you really CAN sense them. With a DVM, you may also be able to. Find something scrap with a coil of fine wire. A few hundred turns of tightly coiled wire can be connected to your DVM on AC Volts mode, and will pick up these fields. Then, you can move it around and see where you get a high reading. Near the motor output wires of the Gecko 320 drives should give several Volts, at least! Good idea. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 2:16 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 26 May 2012 21:10, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: http://3DTOPO.com/CNC-enclosure.png Don't judge me too harshly, I was making sure everything works before I finish tiding things up! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! You could try routing the power and encoder in different directions. You can sort-of see that I did that with my power and step/dir lines in this cabinet: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NivmHU8OuXIcP2EQHUPruNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink Wow, nice box Andy! Yeah, I didn't give the power lines much thought when I wired it up. :'( Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 2:16 PM, andy pugh wrote: On 26 May 2012 21:10, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: http://3DTOPO.com/CNC-enclosure.png Don't judge me too harshly, I was making sure everything works before I finish tiding things up! Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated! You could try routing the power and encoder in different directions. You can sort-of see that I did that with my power and step/dir lines in this cabinet: https://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/NivmHU8OuXIcP2EQHUPruNMTjNZETYmyPJy0liipFm0?feat=directlink Hi Andy, So, I re-routed the power wires to pretty much the most direct possible route, and got rid of over 1 foot of power lines from the enclosure (I originally thought it looked neater routing them all together). I also twisted the power/ground lines together (thanks Jan!). This seems to have fixed the worst of the issues, but still was occasionally getting enough noise (or something) to make the drive fault out just dithering. Then, just to see what might happen, I cut the encoder ground connected to the encoder shield, and it looks like (preliminary speaking) it no longer faults out. The drive is dithering at 0.0003 - 0.0006 with the worst spike now at 0.0012. Now even when it gets a spike, it returns to the proper position (unlike before with the 0.02+ spikes). Interestingly, it seems to act the identically when I hook the earth ground up to the shield. So I guess I will use the earth ground for the shield (thanks Gene!). Do those numbers seem reasonable? One encoder pulse is 0.0003 on this axis. Would tuning the PID help with the spikes? Currently I only have P set to 100 and I and D to 0…. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 26, 2012, at 7:55 PM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sat, 2012-05-26 at 13:45 -0600, Jeshua Lacock wrote: ... snip Interesting. So the pull down resistor would go on the encoder ground? No, between the encoder input terminal for each input having a problem to the ground associated with the input. This will lower the input impedance so the noise will be pulled closer to ground and also lower than the trip voltage. On the other hand it may also lower the ON voltage so the resistor needs to be high enough to keep the ON voltage above the ON trip point for the input. The minimum resistance should be higher than the current limit of the encoder output limit. If the encoder output current limit is say 10ma at 5 Volts, then V = I R and 5 = .010 x R or R = 5/.01 = 500 Ohms. In this case 500 Ohms or higher could be used. You encoder may have different specifications. Great, thanks for the great information Kirk! Just because I am dense (or overly cautious), the resistor would go between the A signal wire in my enclosure to the encoder power ground? Then the B signal wire also to the encoder power ground? So I guess if it is less than the minimum voltage, it is just sinked to the ground? Very cool. Was it connected at the control box end? I don't have much electricity knowledge (no surprise there), so could you recommend what size the resistor would be? Look for the encoder output current limit and working voltage and use Ohm's law as above as a guide. Maybe, double the resistance, say 1k Ohm, and see if it helps. An oscilloscope would be handy to see what the ON and OFF voltages are, but a voltmeter might be good enough to check the a continuous ON and OFF. The specifications for the input might call out what the ON and OFF voltages are. It might be that OFF needs to be lower than 1 Volt and ON higher than 3.5, but it could be different by quite a bit. The encoder I have is in-fact 10ma max, 3.5-5v (I am giving it 5v though): http://www.amtencoder.com/Product/AMT102 I think I have a bundle of 1k resistors laying around. What size capacitor? Was it connected between the encoder DC +5v and ground? Was it connected at the encoder end or the control box end? I believe I put my capacitor in parallel with the resistor, which is probably not proper. With the capacitor connected from the input pin to ground, will for a brief time act like a short circuit and could draw too much current from the encoder. My capacitor is small enough that the high current doesn't last long enough to hurt anything. The TI document, I linked earlier, shows the capacitor in series, or wired such that the input pin goes to the resistor, then to the capacitor, and then to ground. This has the advantage of having the resistor limiting the current. As the the capacitor charges the effective resistance goes from, let's say the example 1k Ohms, then higher. The capacitor stores and releases voltage so that it tends to try to keep the signal voltage constant. This can drown out fast noise spikes, but if the capacitor is too large, it can also drown out fast encoder signals that you may want to keep. If the resistor alone doesn't help, add the capacitor . Maybe try .01 microfarad. An oscilloscope will be needed to see what the cap does to your signal. Interesting! I don't have an oscilloscope, but its something I have been wanting. I think the changes I have made got the axis in-check, but it still seems a bit noisier than I would like. So I will try the resistors first. Others on this list have a lot more experience with this, so if any of the above is wrong, hopefully someone will speak up. I don't recall what your encoder and input hardware is. I may be able to narrow down some of the above, if you post this information. Oh, and also the encoder signal rate. The encoder data sheet states 250 kHz max. I am using Pico Systems USC with the Gecko interface and Gecko 320s (the non-X type). Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 27, 2012, at 5:30 AM, andy pugh wrote: On 27 May 2012 05:16, Jeshua Lacock jes...@3dtopo.com wrote: The drive is dithering at 0.0003 - 0.0006 with the worst spike now at 0.0012. ... One encoder pulse is 0.0003 on this axis. Would tuning the PID help with the spikes You could consider setting the PID deadband to 1 or 2 encoder counts if you don't need sub 0.001 positioning accuracy. Hi Andy, Funny you should mention that, just last night curiosity got the better of me and I started experimenting with the deadband for the first time. I had no idea what I was doing, I just kept increasing the value until it got really quiet (which happened to be about 3 encoder counts). Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 27, 2012, at 10:12 AM, Jon Elson wrote: Jeshua Lacock wrote: Then, just to see what might happen, I cut the encoder ground connected to the encoder shield, and it looks like (preliminary speaking) it no longer faults out. This seems to indicate that the encoder shield was grounded to the wrong place. So, noise coupled to this ground was flowing somewhere and interfering with something. This practice of electromagnetic compatibility and noise reduction is widely viewed as an art rather than a science, because in any complex system the number of possible ground paths becomes mathematically intractable. Hi Jon, Touche! The drive is dithering at 0.0003 - 0.0006 with the worst spike now at 0.0012. Now even when it gets a spike, it returns to the proper position (unlike before with the 0.02+ spikes). Interestingly, it seems to act the identically when I hook the earth ground up to the shield. So I guess I will use the earth ground for the shield (thanks Gene!). Do those numbers seem reasonable? One encoder pulse is 0.0003 on this axis. Would tuning the PID help with the spikes? Currently I only have P set to 100 and I and D to 0…. Sure, .0012 is 4 encoder counts. First, there shouldn't be spikes, but gentle bumps of +/- 1 encoder count or maybe two. So, you need to find out what is causing these spikes. is the G320- servo loop responding to noise or encoder counts and jumping too far? Or, is LinuxCNC's PID sensing the normal dithering of the G320 and trying too hard to compensate for it? This could be hard to parse, as you can't view what the G320 is doing, you can only see what the PID is doing. However, you can view pid.0.output, ppmc.0.encoder.0.delta and pid.0.error on the same trace, and wait for one of these spikes. Then, zoom way in so you can see the individual servo cycles (that is the sampling rate of the Halscope data) and you should be able to see if the pid.0.output is RESPONDING to to spike, or the CAUSE of the spike. If there is no significant PID output one cycle before the spike, then it is the G320 that caused it, and checking tuning of the G320 is what you need to do. Probably turn down the gain pot and let the PID handle it. I captured a big spike event (16 encoder counts!), but for the life of me, I cannot figure which came first (the seem to be at the same instant?). I have two screen captures online, 1 so you can see the whole event and the second zoomed in as far as possible at the beginning of the event: http://3DTOPO.com/spike-event.png http://3DTOPO.com/spike-event-zoom.png If the pid.0.output IS jumping a cycle before the spike occurs, then you might want to work with P and D mostly, and possibly also see if a little bit of DEADBAND helps. I usually find that adding a DEADBAND equal to 1.5 x the encoder resolution reduces the annoying dithering. Add too much and you introduce a discontinuity in the servo response, and this can be destabilizing. Yes, deadband did help remove most of the jitter I was experiencing, so I started trying to tune the P and D (again!) - but I think I might have made the spikes worse. Can I hire you to VNC on the machine while I have you on the phone? I think if I watched you tune one drive I would learn a great deal. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 27, 2012, at 11:21 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: On Sat, 2012-05-26 at 23:31 -0500, Jon Elson wrote: ... snip Jeshua's AMT-103 encoder has a 2 mA source/sink driver when used by itself (without the line driver cable option). So, you can't apply too much of a pull-down or it will alter the logic levels. This is getting messy. I made a first attempt at a schematic of a single encoder setup. It should be attached. Also, the Inkscape SVG file is attached if someone wants to edit it. There are some missing bits, such as, how each component gets powered and grounded. I assumed the driver cable is used because 2ma just doesn't seem enough to drive the inputs well. Another message indicated an AMT102, so I used that, but makes little difference. Hi Kirk, Thanks for all your help! I would be happy to float you some PayPal dough for your time. But I am actually not using the AMT line driver cable. I think Jon may have got that idea because I mentioned I had installed a differential encoder/decoder, but it was from CNC4PC. I guess it is mostly the same, but in any event I removed it because the drive was acting so erratic with it. I now think it was interference in the cabinet, but not sure if I need to wire up the differential again, as it seems pretty noise free now and starting to look like it is actually a tuning issue at this point... It should be possible to read the logic levels with a DVM by very gently moving the motor and letting it settle, you should be able to see both the high and low logic levels. The Universal Stepper Controller has about a 2.5 V logic threshold, the Gecko interface uses a PNP emitter follower driving the opto-coupler's LEDs, but the threshold there also is about the same. The USC encoder inputs go directly to the FPGA or a buffer? Any hysteresis? Any pull ups? The Gecko encoder inputs go directly to a PNP base, maybe with a voltage divider? Any hysteresis? Pull ups? I suppose these questions are for Jon as I don't have a clue! Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Encoder Interference
On May 27, 2012, at 10:50 PM, Jon Elson wrote: And, I'm not sure you can get this a whole lot better. If the G320 is responding to electrical noise on the encoder inputs, no amount of PID tuning will fix it. And encoder noise it was indeed. I just realized my motor wasn't grounded (you know that big hunk of metal with electricity surging through it intimately connected to the encoder in question). :D As soon as I gave the motor an earth ground she dithers as quiet and rhythmic as a sleeping baby! Mystery solved. Doh! Just about now I think it is time to give myself a swift kick in the butt! Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] 3D Printer Mods?
Wow! Thanks for all the suggestions! There are so many suggestions pointing in various directions it will take me a while to study all of them in detail to see which options makes the most sense to proceed with. I am sure I will have to follow up with some questions and ultimately I will share my plan of attack. The board already working with LinuxCNC sounds like it is the most ready to use, but on the downside it looks like I would have to have the board custom made for me. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: 3D Printer Mods?
On May 30, 2012, at 1:51 AM, Roland Jollivet wrote: I've been looking at different printers for months, but they only seem to be able to produce junk. Hi Roland, Check out the quality of prints on the Ultimaker some with 20 micron layer heights (0.000787 inches): http://davedurant.wordpress.com/2011/10/12/ultimaker-faq-but-what-about-the-quality-of-prints/ The layers are more fine than fingerprints. For the most part the prints shown are just trinkets, but certainly high-qualuty useful parts could be printed just as well. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?
On Jun 3, 2012, at 10:54 AM, Kirk Wallace wrote: These printers are very clever and the products entertaining, but I have issues with how they fit in with the big picture. Plastic, over a the long run has very limited utility, but never goes away and stays toxic. What is going to happen to all of these busts of Yoda once the entertainment value has worn off? Hi Kirk, Well plastic is generally used where metal is not needed. One example would be a Yoda bust, or a hose connecter. No need to make them out of aluminum (for the most part). The energy embodied in a given part of aluminum is at least a magnitude higher than the same part of plastic. So we are better off (at least carbon wise) if a given part is made out plastic instead of metal. Also, all types of plastic are cleanly recyclable in plasma gasification recycling plants (online in Japan and the first is now online in NYC): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plasma_Converter And with the Thermal depolymerization process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thermal_depolymerization The problem with plastic is when it doesn't make it to the recycling centers and worse when it even doesn't make it to the dump. But aluminum really is no different in this regard. An aluminum can that makes its way to the beach of a deserted island will be there for a long long time. I prefer to work with the materials nature provides, and which we have become environmentally and biologically used to - metals, wood, rock, dirt, etcetera. As Doug pointed out PLA is biodegradable and is in fact made from corn and/or sugar. Soy based plastics are a reality now too, with even major auto companies using it in cars now. HDPE is directly usable in plastic extrusion 3D printers with some modifcation. All you have to do is shred it and feed in a grain hopper style feeder. If you prefer to mill HDPE, here is a cool instruct able showing how to make HDPE blocks: http://www.instructables.com/id/Making-Blocks-out-of-HDPE-milk-jugs/ Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?
On Jun 4, 2012, at 7:14 AM, Stephen Dubovsky wrote: On Mon, Jun 4, 2012 at 8:52 AM, Dave e...@dc9.tzo.com wrote: If anyone has a cheap way to do effective - accurate temperature measurement - on the cheap, I'd like to know about it. :-) cheap=thermistors. Who cares they are non-linear if you're using a digital controller? ;) Linearize them in the controller. We use a $0.10 thermistor in production that we can easily get to within +-1C from -40C to +80C using a processor (thats the range we're after). The beta tolerance of the thermistor at the ends is a bigger factor than the linearization table/equation. Obviously an extruder will need a higher temp but that just requires changing the biasing resistor. This is just what I read on the MakerBot website, but they claim that thermocouples are really required above 150C - which is the temperature range being using. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?
On Jun 4, 2012, at 2:47 PM, Joachim Franek wrote: do you think it makes sense if we all collaboratively work towards a common goal? Yes. Excellent. It just seems that several people are going in several directions, and we might all benefit from a shared strategy. It is time to tell, what is essential and what desirable. For me essential: - temp. control of head(s) etc. from my experiance 12bit a/d is required, (I wil test 10bit with avr board) because of thermal long time constant 8 bit of pwm output may be ok Desirable: - common lcnc api: gcode and hal parts Personally what I would like to see is: • Compatible with existing popular slicing software, filtering with a script is acceptable (but of course not ideal), for instance using the python script at: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233 • Compatible with off the shelf components such as MakerBots newest extruder the MK7: http://store.makerbot.com/stepstruder-mk7-complete.html • And their controller card. If we could eliminate the card with standard CNC hardware, that works too. But this card looks like it essentially just controls the power of the extruder heater. http://store.makerbot.com/extruder-controller-v3-6.html Note the CNC conversion at: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:5233 uses the older MK5 extruder. As I understand it, the MK5 extruder just uses a DC motor which that CNC conversion commanded its speed (0-255) and on/off. The MK7 extruder uses a stepper motor. I assume it should be no problem (maybe even less of a problem) using a stepper instead of the DC motor with LinuxCNC. I am not sure how the slicing software handles the extruder stepper motor, but I would guess it is with G Code. • Multiple extruder support would be great too, either for increased print speeds and/or different material. That of course can come later. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] OT: and Soapbox: 3D Printer Mods?
On Jun 4, 2012, at 5:41 PM, dave wrote: It has always been my understanding that you can make a patented device; you just can't sell it. I don't think this precludes using that patented device to make things which you sell. Good point. Also, as far as I know, Makerbot et al have not had much of a legal battle so far. The only incidents I am aware of is a handful of big companies have sent them cease and desist letters for things online at thingverse that were essentially 3D scans of copyrighted geometry. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Live Security Virtual Conference Exclusive live event will cover all the ways today's security and threat landscape has changed and how IT managers can respond. Discussions will include endpoint security, mobile security and the latest in malware threats. http://www.accelacomm.com/jaw/sfrnl04242012/114/50122263/ ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
Greetings, I am the proud new owner of an Bolton Tools AT750 combination lathe and mill see here: http://3DTOPO.com/Bolton-AT750.jpg I am super impressed with the machine so far. I am open to any suggestions for converting the machine to full LinuxCNC. I was thinking for budget and simplicity to go with steppers with perhaps Pico System's Universal Stepper Controller. How much torque is recommend? To control the spindles, should I get VFCs? Any recommended to work well with LinuxCNC? I think I will gear down the steppers at least 2:1 if not more. Recommendations would be great here too! Thanks a Zillion! Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 22, 2014, at 10:25 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: On 01/21/2014 11:10 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: Greetings, I am the proud new owner of an Bolton Tools AT750 combination lathe and mill see here: http://3DTOPO.com/Bolton-AT750.jpg I am super impressed with the machine so far. Ugh, we have a somewhat similar machine at work, it is pretty awful. I wish you'd asked here before buying it. there are so many limitations in workspace, etc. it is a real pain to do anything bigger than a thimble in size. Hi Jon, Hmmm, what machine are you referring to? I just checked and I have full 8x12x3 inches of travel for the mill. I have been using it to lathe hardened steel shafts and has been turning like a dream so far. Haven't yet milled anything though. Will you be using the original leadscrews? They have a lot of backlash. If you tighten a vise on the table it binds the Y travel. The Z mechanism is really laughable, backlash between the quill and pinion is probably several mm. I did a square-column mill some time ago and replaced the Z rack and pinion with an eBay ballscrew. The X and Y screws on that machine were quite tolerable. I figured backlash was common to just about all reasonably priced mills, and I was wondering what folks did with them to compensate with CNC. I just checked the backlash on my Z and with the micro-adjust knob I can not feel any discernible backlash. I certainly can feel backlash on the Z quick feed and on the X and Y leadscrews. Eventually I would like to replace them with anti-backlash ballscrews. I would like to get the machine up and running first if I can expect reasonable results from it. I think I read somewhere a while back someone compensated for the backlash in software and virtually eliminated the problem without having to replace the leadscrews. Speaking of anti-backlash ballscrews, have you guys seen this printable: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:125529 I have printed them out - and they work amazing! On a 3/4 shaft it takes over 100 pounds of force before it slips - and you can pretty much make it tight as you like within reason. NIce thing is it just slips too - no damage when overloaded. It is also configureable for travel per revolution. The Pico USC will be fine, but depending on the drivers used, may not be necessary. If you use Gecko drives with the 10 X microstepping, the USC starts to look good due to the required step rate. The Gecko drivers are VERY good. Yeah I was planning on going with Gecko. Good to know, thanks Jon! I guess the biggest uncertainty right now is how much torque I might need on a machine like this. I was guessing something like the first stepper listed here: http://www.kelinginc.net/NEMA23Motor.html Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: On Wednesday 22 January 2014 19:14:34 Jeshua Lacock did opine: Speaking of anti-backlash ballscrews, have you guys seen this printable: http://www.thingiverse.com/thing:125529 That is a cute idea, but you likely have zero real repeatability. And that IS the name of this game. The only place that would be usable would be with real servos getting feedback from a linear scale encoder driven by the table you are moving. That of course adds 300 to 500 USD per axis. Hi Gene, Anecdotally so far repeatability seems perfect. You can see the virtual threads marked (by a little oil on the rod). As far as I can tell unless you exceed the pressure and make it slip - it stays perfectly in the virtual threads... In any event I am going to do some tests with a dial indicator that I can share here if there is any interest. Also, I am going to place a level across a set of them, place a laser pointer on the level and mark the point on the wall. After moving to and from that point - any angular difference will be greatly exaggerated and should be completely obvious. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 22, 2014, at 5:39 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: There is a link for how to make nuts that fit your screws, usually with less than a thou of backlash, using acetal/delrin for the nut material. http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/43645-Making-Acetal-leadscrew- nuts-the-easy-way These have the advantage of less friction than a std nut under load, very low wear rate and virtually zero backlash when molded around your existing screws. I don't know as I would try and make a half nut assembly that way, but a full nut on the Z with my ball screw and nut on my lathe has not been a problem as I just use the keyboard to move it. Nice! Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- CenturyLink Cloud: The Leader in Enterprise Cloud Services. Learn Why More Businesses Are Choosing CenturyLink Cloud For Critical Workloads, Development Environments Everything In Between. Get a Quote or Start a Free Trial Today. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=119420431iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 22, 2014, at 10:21 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: 570 Oz-In is a lot, but of course, that is only at standstill. But, they should do fine, especially with a belt reduction. 5 A will require the big Gecko 203 drive. For that, you might consider Gecko's servo motors and our PWM servo drives. The price would be pretty close, and the performance will be a lot better. I can advise on specific models, encoders, etc. they have a very affordable size 23 brushless motor, the KL23BLS115, good for 180 Oz-In (but that is a RUNNING rating, not a standstill rating). $52 without encoder. You can get a good encoder with index from Digi-Key for about $38. I have found this motor to work quite well with my servo amps and our Universal PWM Controller. Hi Jon, Interesting - yeah works out to around the same price and would be a infinity better set up. Could I use the PWM Servo Amplifier to drive all 4 axes? I have had good luck with the encoders Kelling sells - I love that they have adjustable CPM. What encoders do you like? Anything else I need? Where does one get the connectors for your PWM Panel? One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). As a side note I have opted to upgrade the ACME screws to a ballscrews as the first step. Thanks, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 29, 2014, at 10:22 AM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: On 01/29/2014 04:04 AM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: they have a very affordable size 23 brushless motor, the KL23BLS115, good for 180 Oz-In (but that is a RUNNING rating, not a standstill rating). $52 without encoder. You can get a good encoder with index from Digi-Key for about $38. I have found this motor to work quite well with my servo amps and our Universal PWM Controller. Hi Jon, Interesting - yeah works out to around the same price and would be a infinity better set up. Well, checking on Automation Tech, the same motor is listed at $78, I think. So, I don't know if Keling will honor the $52 price still on the Keling web site. The keling site may now be a zombie web site with nobody servicing the orders. I notice Lin Engineering seems to have the exact same motors, but they don't show prices online. Could I use the PWM Servo Amplifier to drive all 4 axes? One brushless PWM servo amp will drive each motor, so for 4 axes, you'd need 4 servo amps. I see. That would pretty much be a deal breaker as just the power supply alone for 5 axes would be $750. Could I use something else (not that I don't think its not worth it - I just don't have the budget). Can I use toroidal or switching power supply (even if it may mean going with brushed motors)? Or perhaps this driver: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115 I have had good luck with the encoders Kelling sells - I love that they have adjustable CPM. What encoders do you like? That would be the AMT10x series. They are certainly very affordable, but have some lag when the motor is accelerating. I found it a lot easier to tune the servo loop when using classic optical encoders without interpolation. I remember you mentioning that now. Do you like U.S. Digital or what is your preference? Anything else I need? Where does one get the connectors for your PWM Panel? The connectors for the PWM controller are included. We now supply 2-part pluggable screw-terminal connectors. Oh nice! One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). Two PWM controllers can be daisy chained off one parallel port, to go up to 8 axes. You can use the extra channels for spindle encoder/speed control, jog pendant, etc. When you connect the additional controller, the driver automatically detects it and exports additional HAL pins. Awesome! Do they each get their own serial port? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Conversion Suggesions?
On Jan 29, 2014, at 6:26 PM, Jon Elson el...@pico-systems.com wrote: On 01/29/2014 04:35 PM, Jeshua Lacock wrote: I see. That would pretty much be a deal breaker as just the power supply alone for 5 axes would be $750. Could I use something else (not that I don't think its not worth it - I just don't have the budget). Can I use toroidal or switching power supply (even if it may mean going with brushed motors)? Or perhaps this driver: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115 Our PWM servo amp is not a power supply is is a power amplifier that takes a control signal and sends a measured amount of power to the motor. The Automation Tech device you mention is a SPINDLE driver, not meant for positioning servos. Understood, thank you for clearing that up! So I guess to use a power supply I would have to use something like a brushed motors, Gecko controllers and your USC instead (like I have now for another machine). The Automation Tech device says: DC Brushless Driver for KL23BLS-115. I thought KL23BLS-115 is the brushless motor you had recommended: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/dc-brushless-motor/kl23bls-series-11 It says on the product description: An external voltage of 0-5V can also be used to control the speed. The direction of the motor is specified by direction control input. - See more at: http://www.automationtechnologiesinc.com/products-page/nema23/dc-brushless-driver-for-kl23bls-115#sthash.pyCNlU0w.dpuf; Apparently they also have a driver for their smaller brushless motors. I remember you mentioning that now. Do you like U.S. Digital or what is your preference? US Digital is OK, but the Avago encoders are not much more expensive, and you get a wide range of resolutions, as well as an index output. Cool, thanks! One last question - how would you recommend going about adding a 5th axis? I could live with 4 axes for now manually setting a 5th axis (e.g. tilt - but 5 would be ideal). Two PWM controllers can be daisy chained off one parallel port, to go up to 8 axes. You can use the extra channels for spindle encoder/speed control, jog pendant, etc. When you connect the additional controller, the driver automatically detects it and exports additional HAL pins. Awesome! Do they each get their own serial port? There is no serial port. These devices are controlled by the PC PARALLEL port, and one Par Port can control two boards. The boards synchronize between themselves over the par port bus. Sorry - I meant parallel port. Nice it only needs one! Would I need a special cable to connect the boards? Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- WatchGuard Dimension instantly turns raw network data into actionable security intelligence. It gives you real-time visual feedback on key security issues and trends. Skip the complicated setup - simply import a virtual appliance and go from zero to informed in seconds. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=123612991iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] next big thing
Greetings, Here is a 5-axis laser sintering CNC machine [DROL]: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s9IdZ2pI5dA It makes perfect sense. Its eliminating the cast part altogether and having it perfectly clamped and positioned on a 5-axis CNC machine. And proves it can be practical to switch heads. Now I think LiunuxCNC would be a good candidate for a machine like that. ;) Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Managing the Performance of Cloud-Based Applications Take advantage of what the Cloud has to offer - Avoid Common Pitfalls. Read the Whitepaper. http://pubads.g.doubleclick.net/gampad/clk?id=121051231iu=/4140/ostg.clktrk ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Granite Surface Protection
On Mar 28, 2014, at 9:22 PM, John Kasunich jmkasun...@fastmail.fm wrote: Do NOT do that to a precision plate in an ISO9000 shop. But if he is determined to make his cheap grade B plate shiny, then why not? Thanks for all the information everyone. My 1080 pound 4x5 foot granite surface has a glass cut looking surface that I bought surplus. It was used for laser measuring/referencing, but other than that the vendor had no idea what they had (in fact he wasn't even sure it was granite, thought it might be marble, but I knew they don't make surfaces out of marble). It has 6 holes spaced equally around it and two tiny red plastic phillips screws or something like that on the sides. A picture of it is here: http://3DTOPO.com/GraniteSurface.jpg Anyways, do you think the reason it is shiny is because it is grade A, while the grade B should be matte? Yeah if I didn't have to take pretty pictures of it I really would not care what it looks like. But that Gorton is a beauty! The reason I got my new surface was so that I could have a studio semi-permanetly set up for most shots I need, then if I needed a bigger surface I could set up the studio in the shop. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] [Off] Granite Surface Protection
On Mar 28, 2014, at 5:35 PM, Gene Heskett ghesk...@wdtv.com wrote: I just received a grade B granite surface that has a very dull/matte finish. I was planning to use it for both reference and photography and the image advertised showed it glossy (which is why I ordered it). I contacted the vendor and they told me it is impossible to make granite have a natural gloss to it. At the same time, my other granite surface is shiny as glass. Me thinks you need to escalate that with your source, he is lying. Go look at any tombstone. I have a 12 x 18 I carried out the door of Grizzly up in Muncy PA several years back that is just like a mirror, but fairly close to black. I thought the same thing Gene, but sense I think I would have to pay for shipping back it is a loose loose situation for me unless I can pretty the darn stone up. Besides the money, it would be a bet of a set back for my schedule. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Engineer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
[Emc-users] Timing Belt Config
Greetings, I am trying to calibrate my shiny new machine. I have opted to use timing belts instead of leadscrews. My servos have 512-count optical encoders driven by Gecko 320's. I have all the pins set up, and are working nicely! The servos are geared down 4 to 1 (four servo revolutions per pulley revolution that runs main timing belt). My question is, what would I put for the Leadscrew pitch in the Axis Configuration Page? I assume for the Pulley Teeth I would enter 4:1. I greatly appreciate any advice! In case anyone is interested, pics of the machine are at: http://OpenOSX.com/CNC-11.9.09/ Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Timing Belt Config
On Nov 10, 2009, at 3:10 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: In case anyone is interested, pics of the machine are at: http://OpenOSX.com/CNC-11.9.09/ I am interested to know if you have an EMC build for OSX :-) Thanks Andy! (Thanks everyone for your helpful suggestions!) The crux for me was lack of a working parallel port - I spent much time looking into it. There might be some USB solutions, but would like require developing a custom kernel extension. I think everything else including RTAI could pretty easily be ported. But I picked up a working PC from the dump, installed the EMC Live CD, and am quite happy. I can control the remote machine over VNC so it is pretty sweet. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Timing Belt Config
On Nov 10, 2009, at 3:27 PM, John Thornton wrote: What you need to figure out is how far the axis moves per rotation. For example if your motor turns 4 times to turn the big pulley once and the table travels 2 inches then it is 2 turns per inch. If it is 200 pulses per revolution and 10 microsteps then you have 200 x 10 x 2 steps per inch. At the bottom of the page you can see the scale calculate as you enter in values. The only value that really matters is the actual scale number. Thanks John, If I am using a servo with 512 PPR, is a step 1/512 of a revolution? I guess I do not know how step/microsteps apply to servos... Is it possible with EMC to command the servo to move 1 revolution (or a specific number of steps) instead of specifying a distance? I have belt drive plasma cutter and the calculations don't quite come out exact with the belt. It depends on how much belt stretch you have. Once you get it close take a measurement and the move a large amount then measure. Do the math to figure out the exact scale you need to get a movement of one unit. For example one of my axis calculated scale is 4000 but because of belt stretch I need 3980 to get a more accurate movement. That makes sense! Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] new interface
On Nov 12, 2009, at 12:53 PM, Andy Pugh wrote: I'd love to see kinematics and/or TP calcs done on a GPU. You undoubtedly know this, but the Folding At Home project has clients that run on GPUs and also makes effective use of the Cell Processor in the Playstation3 Check out the OpenCL spec, or CUDA. http://www.khronos.org/opencl/ Any massively parallel operation can gain tremendous performance. Imagine what this 2.72 terraflops card could do with OpenCL enabled (not to mention 4 of them in a box!!): http://www.electronista.com/articles/09/09/23/ati.radeon.hd.5800.official/ Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Timing Belt Config
On Nov 12, 2009, at 4:55 AM, John Thornton wrote: If I am using a servo with 512 PPR, is a step 1/512 of a revolution? If your servo drives take step and direction signals then they are just like steppers to the software. If it takes 512 steps to go one revolution and it takes two revolutions to move one inch then your scale is 1024 = the number of steps to move one inch (or mm). Thanks for confirming that John. I guess I do not know how step/microsteps apply to servos... It would not apply to servos only to drives that take step and direction signals. Steps and micro steps and gear ratios and pulleys all add up to one thing how many pulses does it take to go one unit. If you have servo drives that take PWM or 0-10v signals and feed back position info to EMC via an encoder then that is a whole different beast. Got it. I thought I read somewhere that servos are treated like a step motor from EMC. My encoders send the signal back to the Gecko 320's. So I assume that the Gecko knows the position of the servo and EMC instructs it where to move. This is just speculation on my part, so I could be wrong. Is it possible with EMC to command the servo to move 1 revolution (or a specific number of steps) instead of specifying a distance? If you set your scale correctly I assume you could... dunno why you would want to I was thinking it would allow me to set the scale. I could tell it to do 512 steps and measure, or 25,600 steps and measure the distance the belt moves.. Thanks again, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] new interface
On Nov 12, 2009, at 8:16 PM, Jon Elson wrote: I'd love to see kinematics and/or TP calcs done on a GPU. Recent video cards do single precision floating point very quickly, and the newest set of GPUs can do double precision natively as well. Got a kinematics problem that requires 1000 iterations to solve? No problem, because 500 processors running at 700MHz can figure that out in a hurry. Concerned about trajectory planning with massive lookahead while also taking into account FO and other things? No problem. Run a bunch of scenarios in parallel on the GPU and then pick the one that's closest to the actual situation when the next servo cycle comes around. There are all sorts of things that can be done when you can (a) run a lot of stuff in parallel and (b) throw away 99% of the work and still be fast enough to control a machine. The problem with GPUs is they are all proprietary (ie. different) from board to board, and manufacturer to mfr. That would be a real problem. That would be an advantage going with something like OpenCL. To take advantage, one would have to chose a GPU that supported it. Just like gamers chose cards that support certain OpenGL extensions and such. Heck, even if only a single GPU was supported, and I needed the capabilities it offered, chances are I would go with it. Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] Mister for small mill
On Nov 15, 2009, at 12:45 PM, dave wrote: Castor oil is a good guess but not the only one. It's fatty acids are a couple of carbons longer than the average cooking oil and does seem to survive well as a lube in model airplane engines. On the industrial market it is about 30% more expensive than canola. If I wanted to go cheap I'd simply go with canola right off the shelf. Indeed inexpensive enough to not recover. If you want to get even more value out of your oil - you could burn it when it is done. I have casted hundreds of pounds of iron and aluminum from my oil burner. Or you could heat your shop with it. Here I am melting iron with vegetable oil: http://openosx.com/hotspring/foundry/melt-iron/melt-iron.html Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] EMC2 on laptops
On Nov 18, 2009, at 9:17 AM, Andy Pugh wrote: 2009/11/18 Gene Heskett gene.hesk...@gmail.com: Another thing I would be very careful about is the access mechanism these devices require in order to actually access the hardware of the port. The docks seem to use a hard-wired connection, I think they are really just a set of ports that connect to the many-way connector on the laptop base. The PCMCIA solution should be fine, Cardbus is a bus-mastering connection direct to the PCI bus. Not to mention if the port ever gets more than 5v - its toast. No way to add another I presume... Best, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
Re: [Emc-users] How Exactly does a Mister Work
On Nov 21, 2009, at 3:03 AM, Erik Christiansen wrote: On Fri, Nov 20, 2009 at 05:10:18PM +, Leslie Newell wrote: Carbon dioxide is 66% oxygen (CO2). As aluminum is very active it will strip oxygen out of the CO2. That is also the reason why you should never use a CO2 fire extinguisher on magnesium fires. However, it is extensively used in fire extinguishers precisely because it does not give up its oxygen even at hundreds of degrees C. I'm not sure of how many thousand degrees magnesium burns at, but it is more than 1500, because thermite (magnesium and iron oxide) combustion melts the iron produced by the reduction of the iron oxide. Correction: Thermite is actually a name brand which is a mixture of aluminum and iron oxide. Generically speaking, Thermite is referred to an aluminothermic reaction. It is aluminum's high infinity for oxygen that strips the oxygen away from the iron oxide. I am sure you could also burn (exothermic reaction) magnesium with iron oxide, however, that would result in such rapid combustion it would cause an explosion. I have actually casted iron, steel, nickel, chromium, ferrotitanium, and even titanium using aluminothermic reactions (you use the oxide for the metal that you want - like titanium dioxide for titanium). It is fascinating stuff! Note that titanium dioxide takes a great deal more energy to sustain an exothermic reaction compared to iron oxide, so the use of a catalyst is required. Cheers, Jeshua Lacock Founder/Programmer 3DTOPO Incorporated http://3DTOPO.com Phone: 208.462.4171 -- Let Crystal Reports handle the reporting - Free Crystal Reports 2008 30-Day trial. Simplify your report design, integration and deployment - and focus on what you do best, core application coding. Discover what's new with Crystal Reports now. http://p.sf.net/sfu/bobj-july ___ Emc-users mailing list Emc-users@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/emc-users
