subject:"\[FairfieldLife\] Re\: Interesting phenomena on thread \: Flying vs. Hopping"

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
   Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
   you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
   refusing to do so.

There is so much meat here for analysis that the
mind boggles. Judy feels that she is the universe's
editor... 

  http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html
  
  From the TM org site:
  
  1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science
  -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative 
 Intelligence,
  training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the
  timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.
  
  
  But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people 
 about
  the value of thoughts in meditaion?
  
  
  http://www.enmag.org/09/9birx2.htm
  
  Enlightenment: What is it that inspires Meditators to take the next
  step, to learn the TM-Sidhi program?
  
  Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
  appreciating what a great value that is to their life. On that 
 basis,
  there is an openness when Maharishi brings out the point, through a
  lecture or a tape, that we could accelerate this growth of 
 consciousness.
  
  Maharishi said this new technique would be something that would 
 more
  quickly shrink the gap between our present ability to transcend and
  the time that would be coming in the future, through repeated
  transcending, when this experience would become an all time reality.
  arriving at that source of thought. Maharishi said this new 
 technique
  would be something that would more quickly shrink the gap between 
 our
  present ability to transcend and the time that would be coming in 
 the
  future, through repeated transcending, when this experience would
  become an all time reality.
  
  In the West, Meditators had been transcending for 35 or 40 years, 
 so
  the Laws of Nature were being directly enlivened for all that time.
  But the Soviet Union hadn't had any Meditators until shortly before 
 we
  arrived.
  
  Me:
  But wont a person appreciating the great value of transcending 
 prove
  that they don't understand the teaching like Judy does?  What would
  Doug Birx know about the use of the word transcending.  You might
  want to get him to tighten up Judy.
  
  My original quotes:
  
  As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
  overrated as a valuable experience. 
  
  How could so many people drop
  the practice if transcending was all that?
  
  Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
  appreciating what a great value that is to their life.
  
  Now lets see Judy's integrity at work.
 
 Let's see *your* integrity at work, Curtis.  What's
 the difference between what you said and what Doug
 is saying?
 
 Hint: He is *not* talking about valuing the experience
 *during meditation*.

...an editor who only corrects those who *need* 
to be corrected. Obviously, anyone who believes
what she believes doesn't need it.

Now that we've settled the issue of hypocrisy
and who on this newsgroup embodies it, let's
get back to the Laws of Manu and how I'm going
to convince that 20 year old that I'm perfect
for her.  :-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
   wrote:
   
 
 Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
 good seeing.

They are too young for you.
   
   Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. Manu
   advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 60
   now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
   in-tuned with Natural Law. 
   
   And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
  
  I just let her read this. I'll let you know
  how it turns out.
 
 Oops. A closer look at Manu's numbers imply a formula of
 f=m/3+(m-24)/3, where f = female age and m= male age. 
 
 So sorry Barry, 20  year olds are not optimal for you. 
 To be in tune with Natural Law you should focus on 32 
 yr olds.

NOW you tell me, after I spent much of the 
evening chatting up a couple of Irish tourist
babes in their early twenties. 

It must have been the growing coherence from
the course that clouded their minds and made
them find me interesting. Hmmm...keep bouncing,
folks...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
   Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of natural law
   fun facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.
  
  Did you ever answer that thread that went on for days about wether 
  you actually have ever learned TM ? Everyone here thinks you made
  it up.
 
 Vaj doesn't deign to address mundane, trivial issues
 like whether he makes stuff up.  As with Barry, concern
 for the facts is for inferior, less-evolved beings.

I honestly don't think I've ever described those
who get concerned with the things they consider
facts as inferior, less-evolved beings, but 
if that's your definition I'll go with it. You're
the editor, after all.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
  snip
Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of natural law
fun facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.
   
   Did you ever answer that thread that went on for days about 
wether 
   you actually have ever learned TM ? Everyone here thinks you 
made
   it up.
  
  Vaj doesn't deign to address mundane, trivial issues
  like whether he makes stuff up.  As with Barry, concern
  for the facts is for inferior, less-evolved beings.
 
 I honestly don't think I've ever described those
 who get concerned with the things they consider
 facts as inferior, less-evolved beings,

Um, no, but I didn't put the phrase in quotes,
now, did I?  I was describing your attitude, not
your words.

 but 
 if that's your definition I'll go with it. You're
 the editor, after all.

But thanks for confirming my description.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
refusing to do so.
 
 There is so much meat here for analysis that the
 mind boggles.

Barry's mind always boggles when faced with the
need for analysis.

So he substitutes fantasy; it's a lot less work:

 Judy feels that she is the universe's
 editor...

snip
   Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of
   transcending, and appreciating what a great value
   that is to their life.
   
   Now lets see Judy's integrity at work.
  
  Let's see *your* integrity at work, Curtis.  What's
  the difference between what you said and what Doug
  is saying?
  
  Hint: He is *not* talking about valuing the experience
  *during meditation*.
 
 ...an editor who only corrects those who *need* 
 to be corrected. Obviously, anyone who believes
 what she believes doesn't need it.
 
 Now that we've settled the issue of hypocrisy
 and who on this newsgroup embodies it,

That was settled long ago, Barry.  Glad you're
finally admitting it.





 let's
 get back to the Laws of Manu and how I'm going
 to convince that 20 year old that I'm perfect
 for her.  :-)







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Turq,

Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.  Spraig?

Now on to more important matters...
The Charaka Samhita is your Vedic support for your conquest of young
hotties.  It specifically prescribes being with them as a tonic.  You
may not want to go as young as they prescribed,(think of the age of a
girl Michael Jackson would want if he were hetero), but the Vedic
literature is clearly on your side.  Of course the masagonistic Vedas
are skewed towards the man's benefit.  There is no mention of what the
young woman gets out of it.  I'm sure you'll think of something.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
refusing to do so.
 
 There is so much meat here for analysis that the
 mind boggles. Judy feels that she is the universe's
 editor... 
 
   http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html
   
   From the TM org site:
   
   1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science
   -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative 
  Intelligence,
   training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the
   timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.
   
   
   But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people 
  about
   the value of thoughts in meditaion?
   
   
   http://www.enmag.org/09/9birx2.htm
   
   Enlightenment: What is it that inspires Meditators to take the next
   step, to learn the TM-Sidhi program?
   
   Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
   appreciating what a great value that is to their life. On that 
  basis,
   there is an openness when Maharishi brings out the point, through a
   lecture or a tape, that we could accelerate this growth of 
  consciousness.
   
   Maharishi said this new technique would be something that would 
  more
   quickly shrink the gap between our present ability to transcend and
   the time that would be coming in the future, through repeated
   transcending, when this experience would become an all time reality.
   arriving at that source of thought. Maharishi said this new 
  technique
   would be something that would more quickly shrink the gap between 
  our
   present ability to transcend and the time that would be coming in 
  the
   future, through repeated transcending, when this experience would
   become an all time reality.
   
   In the West, Meditators had been transcending for 35 or 40 years, 
  so
   the Laws of Nature were being directly enlivened for all that time.
   But the Soviet Union hadn't had any Meditators until shortly before 
  we
   arrived.
   
   Me:
   But wont a person appreciating the great value of transcending 
  prove
   that they don't understand the teaching like Judy does?  What would
   Doug Birx know about the use of the word transcending.  You might
   want to get him to tighten up Judy.
   
   My original quotes:
   
   As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
   overrated as a valuable experience. 
   
   How could so many people drop
   the practice if transcending was all that?
   
   Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
   appreciating what a great value that is to their life.
   
   Now lets see Judy's integrity at work.
  
  Let's see *your* integrity at work, Curtis.  What's
  the difference between what you said and what Doug
  is saying?
  
  Hint: He is *not* talking about valuing the experience
  *during meditation*.
 
 ...an editor who only corrects those who *need* 
 to be corrected. Obviously, anyone who believes
 what she believes doesn't need it.
 
 Now that we've settled the issue of hypocrisy
 and who on this newsgroup embodies it, let's
 get back to the Laws of Manu and how I'm going
 to convince that 20 year old that I'm perfect
 for her.  :-)








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Turq,
 
 Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
 quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
 insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
 Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
 this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.  Spraig?

I honestly think that Sparaig is a good guy, and
quibbles about these minor verbal nitpicks out of habit
from a.m.t., where the standard for debating has 
almost been defined as quibbling over nitpicks for a 
long time now. 

Another factor to bear in mind is that almost every
time he states a strong opinion here and someone
challenges him on it, a certain person has to come
rushing in like the calvary to rsscue him. I think
she feels that it's loyalty of some kind; I kinda
imagine that Sparaig cringes ever time she does it,
and wishes she wouldn't. At this point on FFL, having
Judy's support is probably a lot like having Bush's
support if you're a Republican running for reelection.

 Now on to more important matters...
 The Charaka Samhita is your Vedic support for your conquest 
 of young hotties.  It specifically prescribes being with 
 them as a tonic.  

Interestingly, it's the same thing in Chinese tonic
herbology. I had a friend who studied under a famous
herbalist, and much of their practice involved sex
tonics -- things that increased yang in older men
for whom it had grown deficient. The Chinese tonic
herb system is very interesting -- there are over 
10,000 beneficial herbs known, but less than 100
of them fall into the category of the tonic herbs.
The criteria for that are that they balance (if you
have high blood pressure, you could take any number
of other herbs, but you'd have to stop taking them
as your blood pressure neared normal; with the tonic
herbs, if you had high blood pressure it will lower
it to normal, and if you had low blood pressure it
will raise it to normal), they have no known non-
beneficial side effects, and a few other qualities.

The reason they are interested in restoring sexual
balance is not pandering to horny old farts, by the
way. They believe that one of the keys to longevity
*is* balance, and if one has lost one's sexual 
desire and/or has trouble fulfilling them, that
is a sign of a much larger and more dangerous 
imbalance. These theories seem to work themselves
out in real life; I was introduced to several 
Chinese tonic herbalists in their 90s and over
100 years old who are not only still practicing,
they're married and still having kids. The herbalist
I got to know the best had a wife 25 years younger
than he was.

 You may not want to go as young as they prescribed,(think 
 of the age of a girl Michael Jackson would want if he were 
 hetero), but the Vedic literature is clearly on your side.  
 Of course the masagonistic Vedas are skewed towards the 
 man's benefit.  There is no mention of what the young 
woman gets out of it.  I'm sure you'll think of something.

She would get *me*, silly. Oh. You meant that I'll
think of something that works...  :-)

Strangely enough, when New Morning corrected his 
earlier perfect age for me to 32, I breathed a
sigh of relief. I actually do get along better in
most cases with younger women than older ones 
(because we have more in common -- no kids, love
of travel, often similar interests in music and
reading, etc.), but I'm glad I don't have to learn
20s-speak. Low thirties has always been really
good for me. I actually *like* older women, in
their forties or fifties, but to be honest it's
difficult to find women with whom I have very
much in common from that age group. Let's face
it, what I'm looking for is someone who has paid 
their dues in some spiritual pursuit and under-
stands what that adds -- and subtracts -- from
one's life. I've tried dating women from that age
group before, and often all they can find to talk
about is their kids (even if they've moved away)
and how they want to find some place to settle
down with a partner and basically wait to die.
Sorry. That's just not me. I hope to be traveling
and doing crazy things right up to the end, so
younger women who can handle that really *are*
probably a better choice for me.


 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
 Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
 you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
 refusing to do so.
  
  There is so much meat here for analysis that the
  mind boggles. Judy feels that she is the universe's
  editor... 
  
http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html

From the TM org site:

1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new
science
-- the Science of

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Turq,

Lots of interesting points.  I agree that there is hope for Spraig. 
Different MO altogether.

Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take ginseng?
 I go back and forth with it.  I have read so many conflicting reports
and my own experience varies.  The whole question of  which kind and
the quality makes my head spin.  I do remember buying some domestic
roots that seemed to make me strong like bull, but I was so young
then anyway.  So far the fountain of youth for me is to keep moving
the weights.  That seems to reverse the trend of lowered human growth
hormones.  Especially squats.  That has an amazing tonic effect on my
whole body.  Any Chinese stuff you can name for me to try out?  I have
a good Chinese herbalist (I think, how would I know?) in the huge
Vietnamese shopping center near me.  I would be willing to test some
stuff.  It is a mindbender even being in that place.  Their claims are
so complex it will be years till they can test them properly so  I
think we just have to wing it and see if it helps.  I also believe
that use it or lose it is the law of our bodies.

Now, on the women in different age groups.  I can relate to all you
said.  I don't have too many preconceptions about ages, I try to take
people case by case.  But you can't help notice some patterns.  For me
the downsides of the 20's started to add up too high.  I consider the
goals of the person's stage of life.  Someone in their early 30's who
has never had kids is a bad match.  Too focused on fulfilling that
goal and I do not share it.  Lately I have had good experiences with
women my own age who have raised their kids and let them go, and are
ready to explore life again.  If they have the fitness bug and a
positive attitude it can be a fantastic match for me.  They don't all
have negative baggage.  But they have to be readers.  I don't care
what the subjects but they gotta love books.  That raises the
conversation level and makes every day an intellectual discovery. 
Kindness is a quality you can pick up on real quickly.  I can't
believe I ever budged on this criteria in my dumbass past!  But now I
get it.  Life with a kind person makes every day sweet.  Without it,
every day is a sentence in hell.  Of course to put up with me they
pretty much have to be kind anyway right?  It has taken me almost half
a century but I am making better choices these days and my happiness
with my life reflects that.  Youth truly is wasted on the young! 



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Turq,
  
  Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
  quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
  insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
  Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
  this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.  Spraig?
 
 I honestly think that Sparaig is a good guy, and
 quibbles about these minor verbal nitpicks out of habit
 from a.m.t., where the standard for debating has 
 almost been defined as quibbling over nitpicks for a 
 long time now. 
 
 Another factor to bear in mind is that almost every
 time he states a strong opinion here and someone
 challenges him on it, a certain person has to come
 rushing in like the calvary to rsscue him. I think
 she feels that it's loyalty of some kind; I kinda
 imagine that Sparaig cringes ever time she does it,
 and wishes she wouldn't. At this point on FFL, having
 Judy's support is probably a lot like having Bush's
 support if you're a Republican running for reelection.
 
  Now on to more important matters...
  The Charaka Samhita is your Vedic support for your conquest 
  of young hotties.  It specifically prescribes being with 
  them as a tonic.  
 
 Interestingly, it's the same thing in Chinese tonic
 herbology. I had a friend who studied under a famous
 herbalist, and much of their practice involved sex
 tonics -- things that increased yang in older men
 for whom it had grown deficient. The Chinese tonic
 herb system is very interesting -- there are over 
 10,000 beneficial herbs known, but less than 100
 of them fall into the category of the tonic herbs.
 The criteria for that are that they balance (if you
 have high blood pressure, you could take any number
 of other herbs, but you'd have to stop taking them
 as your blood pressure neared normal; with the tonic
 herbs, if you had high blood pressure it will lower
 it to normal, and if you had low blood pressure it
 will raise it to normal), they have no known non-
 beneficial side effects, and a few other qualities.
 
 The reason they are interested in restoring sexual
 balance is not pandering to horny old farts, by the
 way. They believe that one of the keys to longevity
 *is* balance, and if one has lost one's sexual 
 desire and/or has trouble fulfilling them, that
 is a sign of a much

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Turq,
 
 Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
 quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
 insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
 Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
 this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.

Curtis, it was you who failed the test.  Your quotes
from Birx were a red herring, a non sequitur, an
irrelevancy.  You know it and I know it, and anybody
who actually thinks about it for a few minutes would
know it.

All the quotes in the world won't change the fact of
what MMY teaches: During meditation, you do *not*
value the experience of transcending more highly than
any other experience.  At least not if you're
practicing TM.

Remember, you *confirmed* this when Sparaig pointed
it out to you.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Turq,
  
  Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
  quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and 
Judy
  insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
  Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
  this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.  Spraig?
 
 I honestly think that Sparaig is a good guy, and
 quibbles about these minor verbal nitpicks out of habit
 from a.m.t., where the standard for debating has 
 almost been defined as quibbling over nitpicks for a 
 long time now. 
 
 Another factor to bear in mind is that almost every
 time he states a strong opinion here and someone
 challenges him on it, a certain person has to come
 rushing in like the calvary to rsscue him. I think
 she feels that it's loyalty of some kind; I kinda
 imagine that Sparaig cringes ever time she does it,
 and wishes she wouldn't. At this point on FFL, having
 Judy's support is probably a lot like having Bush's
 support if you're a Republican running for reelection.

Whoops, more fantasies, Barry.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 25, 2006, at 1:29 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Turq,  Lots of interesting points.  I agree that there is hope for Spraig.  Different MO altogether.  Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take ginseng?  I go back and forth with it.  I have read so many conflicting reports and my own experience varies.  The whole question of  which kind and the quality makes my head spin.  I do remember buying some domestic roots that seemed to make me "strong like bull", but I was so young then anyway.  So far the fountain of youth for me is to keep moving the weights.  That seems to reverse the trend of lowered human growth hormones.  Especially squats.  That has an amazing tonic effect on my whole body.  Any Chinese stuff you can name for me to try out?  I have a good Chinese herbalist (I think, how would I know?) in the huge Vietnamese shopping center near me.  I would be willing to test some stuff.  It is a mindbender even being in that place.  Their claims are so complex it will be years till they can test them properly so  I think we just have to wing it and see if it helps.  I also believe that use it or lose it is the law of our bodies.  Now, on the women in different age groups.  I can relate to all you said.  I don't have too many preconceptions about ages, I try to take people case by case.  But you can't help notice some patterns.  For me the downsides of the 20's started to add up too high.  I consider the goals of the person's stage of life.  Someone in their early 30's who has never had kids is a bad match.  Too focused on fulfilling that goal and I do not share it.  Lately I have had good experiences with women my own age who have raised their kids and let them go, and are ready to explore life again.  If they have the fitness bug and a positive attitude it can be a fantastic match for me.  They don't all have negative baggage.  But they have to be readers.  I don't care what the subjects but they gotta love books.  That raises the conversation level and makes every day an intellectual discovery.  Kindness is a quality you can pick up on real quickly.  I can't believe I ever budged on this criteria in my dumbass past!  But now I get it.  Life with a kind person makes every day sweet.  Without it, every day is a sentence in hell.  Of course to put up with me they pretty much have to be kind anyway right?  It has taken me almost half a century but I am making better choices these days and my happiness with my life reflects that.  Youth truly is wasted on the young!  Caveat emptor. It's my understanding that a big reason for the "heavy metals in herbs" testing done more and more frequently is because of Chinese herbs in particular. Apparently some of these herbs are from industrial sites or on tailings from mines and do contain heavy metals.Have you seen the commercials on TV for this "male enhancement" medicine called "Ensyte"? The commercials are hilarious. The active ingredient is an ancient Ayurvedic herb, tribulis terrestris and is a excellent male tonic that can often restore an almost teenage virility in many men (without major penile ischemia). I worked on a translation with some Indian Vaidyas a couple of years ago on diabetes. One of the problems with diabetes is neuropathy that can render you impotent. They've used tribulis terrestris with great effect for these issues. Tribulis is a warming diuretic (most diruretics cool the kidneys) so it's also a tonic for the kidneys. An excellent extract with this compound, made under professional standards and testing is called "Tribull". There is also a tribulis terrestris rasayana made if you're interested.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 So far the fountain of youth for me is to keep moving the
 weights.  That seems to reverse the trend of lowered human
 growth hormones. Especially squats. That has an amazing tonic
 effect on my whole body.

Lifts that involve a lot of the large muscle groups have that effect.
For me, it's deadlifts; they are *such* a rush.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Yeah I totally agree. 


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  So far the fountain of youth for me is to keep moving the
  weights.  That seems to reverse the trend of lowered human
  growth hormones. Especially squats. That has an amazing tonic
  effect on my whole body.
 
 Lifts that involve a lot of the large muscle groups have that effect.
 For me, it's deadlifts; they are *such* a rush.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take 
 ginseng?

Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that 
firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.

There are other herbs that are better for regaining
sexual balance than ginseng. I don't take them any
more because Ron (Teeguarden, the herbalist I knew)
can't export them to France for bureaucratic reasons.
I'm looking for a source for some of the most potent
tonic combinations here.

 Any Chinese stuff you can name for me to try out?

Not from memory. Ron's website is http://www.dragonherbs.com
He's got some good overview material there. 

 I have
 a good Chinese herbalist (I think, how would I know?) in the huge
 Vietnamese shopping center near me.  I would be willing to test some
 stuff. It is a mindbender even being in that place. Their claims are
 so complex it will be years till they can test them properly so  I
 think we just have to wing it and see if it helps.  I also believe
 that use it or lose it is the law of our bodies.

I was surprised by the effect that taking Ron's herbs
had on me, but having said that, 1) they were expensive,
and 2) he's a very well respected *tonic* herbalist.
Most of them aren't; they deal with the prescriptive
herbs, the ones meant for curing specific diseases or
weaknesses. Someone who has studyied the tonic herbs 
is more rare, and much harder to find in America.

 Now, on the women in different age groups. I can relate 
 to all you said. I don't have too many preconceptions 
 about ages, I try to take people case by case.  But you 
 can't help notice some patterns.  For me the downsides 
 of the 20's started to add up too high.  

Me, too, no matter what I may say to the contrary when
I really hot one walks past my cafe. :-)

 I consider the goals of the person's stage of life.  
 Someone in their early 30's who has never had kids 
 is a bad match.  Too focused on fulfilling that
 goal and I do not share it.  

Unless they never wanted kids and don't plan to ever
have any. There are more of them out there than you'd
think.

 Lately I have had good experiences with women my own 
 age who have raised their kids and let them go, and are
 ready to explore life again.  If they have the fitness 
 bug and a positive attitude it can be a fantastic match 
 for me.  They don't all have negative baggage.  But they 
 have to be readers.  I don't care what the subjects but 
 they gotta love books.  

Tell me about it. I'm a writer. Am I ever going to
get along long-term with someone who cannot appreciate
writing?

 That raises the conversation level and makes every day 
 an intellectual discovery. Kindness is a quality you 
 can pick up on real quickly.  I can't believe I ever 
 budged on this criteria in my dumbass past!  

I'm fortunate; I never have. It's one of the most
important things for me, that and NOT HAVING TO
TALK ALL THE TIME. My litmus test for whether
a relationship is going to work out is going on
a Road Trip with the woman, driving. If she can
sit comfortably and enjoy the scenery and the
music and not feel compelled to fill the silence
with...uh...non-silence, then it's got a chance.
If she has to talk to know she's there, it hasn't.

 But now I get it.  Life with a kind person makes every 
 day sweet.  Without it, every day is a sentence in hell.  

Sometimes a whole paragraph. :-)

 Of course to put up with me they pretty much have to 
 be kind anyway right?  

Well, I thought that went without saying, for both of us. :-)

 It has taken me almost half a century but I am making 
 better choices these days and my happiness with my life 
 reflects that.  Youth truly is wasted on the young! 

Yup. And I think that this attitude actually makes you
look younger. Just look around at all the people our
age who look like they died several years ago and just
haven't gotten the telegram yet.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
 get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
 roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
 very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
 Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
 L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
 a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
 million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that 
 firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.

Just to explain to those here who are into herbs,
wild gensing is always considered more potent than
cultivated, but there are two other considerations
that make one root rare enough to be worth 10K.

The first is where exactly it grows. There are 
mountains and valleys in China, even today, where
the beneficial value of the *place* creates more
powerful herbs. The herbs (of any kind, not just
ginseng) that come from these valleys are at a 
premium. 

The second is that you can actually tell how long
a wild ginseng root has *lasted* on its own in
the wild. For every year of its growth, a node
grows on the root just about the ground. So an
herbalist knows when he finds a root that has
had the power to survive for 10 years, or 20.
The 10K roots that Ron had were over 40 years
old.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

On Jul 25, 2006, at 2:36 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated) very rare, and for whom the only real customers were Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into a tea and drink it just before going into a multi- million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that firmly in the value of the tonic herbs. Just to explain to those here who are into herbs, wild gensing is always considered more potent than cultivated, but there are two other considerations that make one root rare enough to be worth 10K. The first is where exactly it grows. There are mountains and valleys in China, even today, where the beneficial value of the *place* creates more powerful herbs. The herbs (of any kind, not just ginseng) that come from these valleys are at a premium. The second is that you can actually tell how long a wild ginseng root has *lasted* on its own in the wild. For every year of its growth, a node grows on the root just about the ground. So an herbalist knows when he finds a root that has had the power to survive for 10 years, or 20. The 10K roots that Ron had were over 40 years old. I wonder how Catskill or New England ginseng compares (it is supposedly "hotter")?
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Just look around at all the people our
age who look like they died several years ago and just
haven't gotten the telegram yet.



Amen brother, amen!  Very funny line which I will use today somewhere
just to make sure I do not forget it!




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take 
  ginseng?
 
 Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
 get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
 roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
 very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
 Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
 L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
 a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
 million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that 
 firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.
 
 There are other herbs that are better for regaining
 sexual balance than ginseng. I don't take them any
 more because Ron (Teeguarden, the herbalist I knew)
 can't export them to France for bureaucratic reasons.
 I'm looking for a source for some of the most potent
 tonic combinations here.
 
  Any Chinese stuff you can name for me to try out?
 
 Not from memory. Ron's website is http://www.dragonherbs.com
 He's got some good overview material there. 
 
  I have
  a good Chinese herbalist (I think, how would I know?) in the huge
  Vietnamese shopping center near me.  I would be willing to test some
  stuff. It is a mindbender even being in that place. Their claims are
  so complex it will be years till they can test them properly so  I
  think we just have to wing it and see if it helps.  I also believe
  that use it or lose it is the law of our bodies.
 
 I was surprised by the effect that taking Ron's herbs
 had on me, but having said that, 1) they were expensive,
 and 2) he's a very well respected *tonic* herbalist.
 Most of them aren't; they deal with the prescriptive
 herbs, the ones meant for curing specific diseases or
 weaknesses. Someone who has studyied the tonic herbs 
 is more rare, and much harder to find in America.
 
  Now, on the women in different age groups. I can relate 
  to all you said. I don't have too many preconceptions 
  about ages, I try to take people case by case.  But you 
  can't help notice some patterns.  For me the downsides 
  of the 20's started to add up too high.  
 
 Me, too, no matter what I may say to the contrary when
 I really hot one walks past my cafe. :-)
 
  I consider the goals of the person's stage of life.  
  Someone in their early 30's who has never had kids 
  is a bad match.  Too focused on fulfilling that
  goal and I do not share it.  
 
 Unless they never wanted kids and don't plan to ever
 have any. There are more of them out there than you'd
 think.
 
  Lately I have had good experiences with women my own 
  age who have raised their kids and let them go, and are
  ready to explore life again.  If they have the fitness 
  bug and a positive attitude it can be a fantastic match 
  for me.  They don't all have negative baggage.  But they 
  have to be readers.  I don't care what the subjects but 
  they gotta love books.  
 
 Tell me about it. I'm a writer. Am I ever going to
 get along long-term with someone who cannot appreciate
 writing?
 
  That raises the conversation level and makes every day 
  an intellectual discovery. Kindness is a quality you 
  can pick up on real quickly.  I can't believe I ever 
  budged on this criteria in my dumbass past!  
 
 I'm fortunate; I never have. It's one of the most
 important things for me, that and NOT HAVING TO
 TALK ALL THE TIME. My litmus test for whether
 a relationship is going to work out is going on
 a Road Trip with the woman, driving. If she can
 sit comfortably and enjoy the scenery and the
 music and not feel compelled to fill the silence
 with...uh...non-silence, then it's got a chance.
 If she has to talk to know she's there, it hasn't.
 
  But now I get it.  Life with a kind person makes every 
  day sweet.  Without it, every day is a sentence in hell.  
 
 Sometimes a whole paragraph. :-)
 
  Of course to put up with me they pretty much have to 
  be kind anyway right?  
 
 Well, I thought that went without saying, for both of us. :-)
 
  It has taken me almost half a century but I am making 
  better choices these days and my happiness with my life 
  reflects that.  Youth truly is wasted on the young! 
 
 Yup. And I think that this attitude actually makes you
 look younger. Just look around at all the people our
 age who look like they died several years ago and just
 haven't gotten the telegram yet.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

I just heard a guy on NPR who just finished a book on Ginseng recently
who claimed that US gingeng is another species then Asian Panax, and
is supposed to be cooler in Asian medicine.  This is the kind of
confusion that makes me wonder if I am getting the right stuff when I
fork over my dough!

Here is his book:Ginseng, the Divine Root: The Curious History of the
Plant That Captivated the World, David Taylor
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1565124014/sr=1-1/qid=1153854406/ref=pd_bbs_1/102-8008193-6822541?ie=UTF8s=books

Here is the show link to hear him:
http://www.wamu.org/programs/kn/06/07/12.php

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 25, 2006, at 2:36 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
 
  Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
  get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
  roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
  very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
  Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
  L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
  a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
  million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that
  firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.
 
 
  Just to explain to those here who are into herbs,
  wild gensing is always considered more potent than
  cultivated, but there are two other considerations
  that make one root rare enough to be worth 10K.
 
  The first is where exactly it grows. There are
  mountains and valleys in China, even today, where
  the beneficial value of the *place* creates more
  powerful herbs. The herbs (of any kind, not just
  ginseng) that come from these valleys are at a
  premium.
 
  The second is that you can actually tell how long
  a wild ginseng root has *lasted* on its own in
  the wild. For every year of its growth, a node
  grows on the root just about the ground. So an
  herbalist knows when he finds a root that has
  had the power to survive for 10 years, or 20.
  The 10K roots that Ron had were over 40 years
  old.
 
 
 I wonder how Catskill or New England ginseng compares (it is  
 supposedly hotter)?








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I wonder how Catskill or New England ginseng compares   
 (it is supposedly hotter)?

I don't know; it was my friend who studied extensively
with Ron, not me. But I do know that *none* of the 
herbs he prescribes ever come from anywhere but the
valleys in China he knows about, and was taught about
by his teachers. He once advised me that the ginseng
he's tested from America wouldn't even be allowed to
be sold in China.

Then again, he was the one making the profits from
the herbs he went to China to collect, so his point
of view may have been slightly colored by that.

His customers include rock stars and movie stars
and the like, who have no trouble paying his prices.
The Stones won't go on tour without a set of his
specially-brewed teas for every member of the band
and the crew. They have learned from sad experience
that if even one member of the crew gets sick while
on tour, it can jeapordize a show. No one has gotten
even a cold since they've been drinking the teas.
Mel Gibson ordered a special yang tea for all of
the extras in the battle scenes in Braveheart,
because he wanted a certain level of ferocity in
the Scot warriors. He was happy with the results.

I was once visiting my friend at Ron's and he had
just finished brewing up Billy Idol's special tea.
He had some left over, so he gave it to me to
drink. I basically had a hardon for a week. Billy
pays a great deal more for his tea than I could
ever afford, but I guess it's worth it to him if
it allows him to...uh...keep it up on stage.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Caveat emptor. It's my understanding that a big reason for the heavy
metals in herbs testing done more and more frequently is because of
Chinese herbs in particular. Apparently some of these herbs are from
industrial sites or on tailings from mines and do contain heavy metals.

Shit!  Great point.  So maybe US stuff is the better bet?





--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 25, 2006, at 1:29 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  Turq,
 
  Lots of interesting points.  I agree that there is hope for Spraig.
  Different MO altogether.
 
  Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take ginseng?
   I go back and forth with it.  I have read so many conflicting reports
  and my own experience varies.  The whole question of  which kind and
  the quality makes my head spin.  I do remember buying some domestic
  roots that seemed to make me strong like bull, but I was so young
  then anyway.  So far the fountain of youth for me is to keep moving
  the weights.  That seems to reverse the trend of lowered human growth
  hormones.  Especially squats.  That has an amazing tonic effect on my
  whole body.  Any Chinese stuff you can name for me to try out?  I have
  a good Chinese herbalist (I think, how would I know?) in the huge
  Vietnamese shopping center near me.  I would be willing to test some
  stuff.  It is a mindbender even being in that place.  Their claims are
  so complex it will be years till they can test them properly so  I
  think we just have to wing it and see if it helps.  I also believe
  that use it or lose it is the law of our bodies.
 
  Now, on the women in different age groups.  I can relate to all you
  said.  I don't have too many preconceptions about ages, I try to take
  people case by case.  But you can't help notice some patterns.  For me
  the downsides of the 20's started to add up too high.  I consider the
  goals of the person's stage of life.  Someone in their early 30's who
  has never had kids is a bad match.  Too focused on fulfilling that
  goal and I do not share it.  Lately I have had good experiences with
  women my own age who have raised their kids and let them go, and are
  ready to explore life again.  If they have the fitness bug and a
  positive attitude it can be a fantastic match for me.  They don't all
  have negative baggage.  But they have to be readers.  I don't care
  what the subjects but they gotta love books.  That raises the
  conversation level and makes every day an intellectual discovery.
  Kindness is a quality you can pick up on real quickly.  I can't
  believe I ever budged on this criteria in my dumbass past!  But now I
  get it.  Life with a kind person makes every day sweet.  Without it,
  every day is a sentence in hell.  Of course to put up with me they
  pretty much have to be kind anyway right?  It has taken me almost half
  a century but I am making better choices these days and my happiness
  with my life reflects that.  Youth truly is wasted on the young!
 
 Caveat emptor. It's my understanding that a big reason for the heavy  
 metals in herbs testing done more and more frequently is because of  
 Chinese herbs in particular. Apparently some of these herbs are from  
 industrial sites or on tailings from mines and do contain heavy metals.
 
 Have you seen the commercials on TV for this male enhancement  
 medicine called Ensyte? The commercials are hilarious. The active  
 ingredient is an ancient Ayurvedic herb, tribulis terrestris and is a  
 excellent male tonic that can often restore an almost teenage  
 virility in many men (without major penile ischemia). I worked on a  
 translation with some Indian Vaidyas a couple of years ago on  
 diabetes. One of the problems with diabetes is neuropathy that can  
 render you impotent. They've used tribulis terrestris with great  
 effect for these issues. Tribulis is a warming diuretic (most  
 diruretics cool the kidneys) so it's also a tonic for the kidneys. An  
 excellent extract with this compound, made under professional  
 standards and testing is called Tribull. There is also a tribulis  
 terrestris rasayana made if you're interested.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread new . morning

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Caveat emptor. It's my understanding that a big reason for the heavy
 metals in herbs testing done more and more frequently is because of
 Chinese herbs in particular. Apparently some of these herbs are from
 industrial sites or on tailings from mines and do contain heavy metals.

 Shit!  Great point.  So maybe US stuff is the better bet?
 

Read your brains out. Tell us if anything interesting 
pops up.


ginseng
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=enq=ginsengspell=1

ginseng heavy metal
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=enlr=q=ginseng+heavy+metalbtnG=Search

longevity
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=enlr=q=longevitybtnG=Search

impotence
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=enlr=q=impotencebtnG=Search

erectile dysfunction
http://scholar.google.com/scholar?hl=enlr=q=erectile+dysfunctionbtnG=Search

other cures
http://images.google.com/images?hl=enq=maria%20sharapovabtnG=Google+Searchsa=Ntab=wi






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread Patrick Gillam

--- Alex Stanley wrote:

 Lifts that involve a lot of the large muscle groups have that effect.
 For me, it's deadlifts; they are *such* a rush.

Ahnold said somewhere that lifting weights made 
him feel as if he's coming (his word). I guess there'd 
be some positive reinforcement to work out if
that's the case.






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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 25, 2006, at 3:14 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:"Caveat emptor. It's my understanding that a big reason for the "heavy metals in herbs" testing done more and more frequently is because of Chinese herbs in particular. Apparently some of these herbs are from industrial sites or on tailings from mines and do contain heavy metals."  Shit!  Great point.  So maybe US stuff is the better bet? It would be hard for me to comment, as while I've experimented with ginseng in the past in numerous varieities, eventually I concluded it wasn't for me. And it turns out ginseng, in general is a vata (air-space consitution) rasayana, and I'm not a vata. So I've ended up experimenting with other herbs and compounds. Although I've been hiking in forests in the northeast where it was everywhere, I've left it be.
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

 Ahnold said somewhere that lifting weights made 
 him feel as if he's coming (his word). I guess there'd 
 be some positive reinforcement to work out if
 that's the case.


I am s not spotting his bench press in the gym anymore.  Thanks
for the heads up!  






--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Patrick Gillam [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- Alex Stanley wrote:
 
  Lifts that involve a lot of the large muscle groups have that effect.
  For me, it's deadlifts; they are *such* a rush.
 
 Ahnold said somewhere that lifting weights made 
 him feel as if he's coming (his word). I guess there'd 
 be some positive reinforcement to work out if
 that's the case.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Turq,
  
  Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
  quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
  insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
  Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
  this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.
 
 Curtis, it was you who failed the test.  Your quotes
 from Birx were a red herring, a non sequitur, an
 irrelevancy.  You know it and I know it, and anybody
 who actually thinks about it for a few minutes would
 know it.
 
 All the quotes in the world won't change the fact of
 what MMY teaches: During meditation, you do *not*
 value the experience of transcending more highly than
 any other experience.  At least not if you're
 practicing TM.
 
 Remember, you *confirmed* this when Sparaig pointed
 it out to you.


It's an interesting thing. he's tried to make it sound like he meant the 
process of 
transcending, but the process of transcending is the entire process of TM: 
there's an 
inner stroke and an outer stroke and occassionally a noteable pause 
inbetween.

There's only 3 ways he could have meant value of transcending: the value of 
the inward 
stroke,  the value of the pause (samadhi), or the value of the entire process 
(TM).


If he meant the 3rd, then  why not just say value of TM, i.e., TM isn't all 
that great. 

If he meant either of the first two, as you and I both assumed (and I still do 
despite his 
claims otherwise), then he is missing the boat.











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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping


Spraig, I am disappointed. But by your logic you must contact both the
TM's Website and Doug Birx who both refer to the practice of  TM as
transcending.  Your misinterpretation of what I said, trying to
apply it to the mechanics of meditation, as if I were speaking during
a checking session, is absurd.  But you have one more chance to
explain how my use of the term is different from Doug's use.  The verb
transcending combines inward and outward strokes.  In the context both
Doug and I are using it, discussing the value of the practice, his
high, mine low, it was a perfectly legitimate word.  You are right
that I could have referred to it as TM, and so could Doug.  So could
the TM org site when it speaks of  the timeless message of
Transcending .   But both of us used the more technical term.  Adding
process or value or technique added nothing to the discussion. 
This is a clear case of you putting what I said in a context I clearly
did not mean in a transparent attempt to discredit my personal
experience of giving up TM.  It also pissed on  a very nice parade of
 Off World and I sharing very different conclusions about the practice
in the spirit of understanding.  You have an unfriendly agenda here. 
You knew exactly what I meant, didn't you?

Resist the dark side Luke.  You are better than this.


http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html

From the TM org site:

1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science
-- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative Intelligence,
training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the
timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.


But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people about
the value of thoughts in meditaion?


http://www.enmag.org/09/9birx2.htm

Enlightenment: What is it that inspires Meditators to take the next
step, to learn the TM-Sidhi program?

Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
appreciating what a great value that is to their life. On that basis,
there is an openness when Maharishi brings out the point, through a
lecture or a tape, that we could accelerate this growth of consciousness.

Maharishi said this new technique would be something that would more
quickly shrink the gap between our present ability to transcend and
the time that would be coming in the future, through repeated
transcending, when this experience would become an all time reality.
arriving at that source of thought. Maharishi said this new technique
would be something that would more quickly shrink the gap between our
present ability to transcend and the time that would be coming in the
future, through repeated transcending, when this experience would
become an all time reality.

In the West, Meditators had been transcending for 35 or 40 years, so
the Laws of Nature were being directly enlivened for all that time.
But the Soviet Union hadn't had any Meditators until shortly before we
arrived.

Me:
But wont a person appreciating the great value of transcending prove
that they don't understand the teaching like Judy does? What would
Doug Birx know about the use of the word transcending. You might
want to get him to tighten up Judy.

My original quotes:

As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. 

How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that?

Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
appreciating what a great value that is to their life.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Turq,
   
   Yeah, that was amazing. What were the chances that I would find a
   quote of Doug Birx using the exact terminology that Spraig and Judy
   insisted was proof that I never understood the teaching properly! 
   Judy failed the test but I still have hope that Spraig,who started
   this nonsense, will step up and do the right thing.
  
  Curtis, it was you who failed the test.  Your quotes
  from Birx were a red herring, a non sequitur, an
  irrelevancy.  You know it and I know it, and anybody
  who actually thinks about it for a few minutes would
  know it.
  
  All the quotes in the world won't change the fact of
  what MMY teaches: During meditation, you do *not*
  value the experience of transcending more highly than
  any other experience.  At least not if you're
  practicing TM.
  
  Remember, you *confirmed* this when Sparaig pointed
  it out to you.
 
 
 It's an interesting thing. he's tried to make it sound like he meant
the process of 
 transcending, but the process of transcending is the entire process
of TM: there's an 
 inner stroke and an outer stroke and occassionally a noteable
pause inbetween.
 
 There's only 3 ways he could have meant value of transcending: the
value of

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Spraig, I am disappointed. But by your logic you must contact both
 the TM's Website and Doug Birx who both refer to the practice of  
 TM as transcending.  Your misinterpretation of what I said, 
 trying to apply it to the mechanics of meditation, as if I were 
 speaking during a checking session, is absurd.

Well, it's not absurd at all, of course.  You
said, As far as transcending goes, I think that
experience is also very overrated as a valuable
experience.  That phrasing very strongly suggests
that you *were* referring to how you regarded the
experience of transcending *during meditation*.

If that isn't what you meant, you could have said
so very easily, e.g., I don't mean thinking of
transcending while you're meditating as being more
valuable than thoughts, I meant the value of the
TM process in general.

Instead, you decided to get snotty with Lawson
when he brought it up and pretend that his comment
made no sense.  You also tossed in a bunch of red
herrings, including the dual meaning of transcending.

You've said very similar things in other posts
where the *experience of transcending during
meditation* context was crystal clear (I've
included a bunch of quotes from your posts to that
effect at the end).  They've been a major feature
of your explanations of why you left TM.

So when you made an almost identical comment in
yet another of those explanations, the automatic
assumption is that you were speaking in the same
context.

Bottom line, *if* it was a misunderstanding of ours
rather than a mistake on your part--and like Lawson,
I'm not at all sure it was--it was a natural
misunderstanding, and again, one you could have
clarified very easily.  That you went into this
elaborate song and dance instead suggests to me
that you knew you had goofed but didn't want to 
admit it.

Here are some quotes from your previous posts:

I did have great experiences with the program. For me it was the
interpretation of what those experiences and states of mind means that
changed for me. I came to think that Maharishi's description of what
those experiences mean epistemologically was flawed. That puts me in
a weird place actually because most Atheist-skeptics have never had
mystical experiences, so they think I am nuts when I describe the
experiences I had with TM. On the other hand I can relate to the
experiences of people in the movement and their attraction, but I do
not value the experiences in my own life the same way.
---
It delivered what it promised in terms of internal
experience. It was the meaning of those experiences
that was the question for me.
---
[The Armstrong interview] has not changed how I view my own internal 
experiences from TM. I do have a great appreciation for the 
subjective experiences described in some scriptures because I have 
had compelling experiences that seem similar. I view them as 
facinating brain states without ascribing them with the 
epistemological meaning that I used to in the movement.

I know what it feels like to have an experience so compelling that is
seems like a self-evident truth in itself. But I don't think of them
as more than an example of how amazing our brains are. I do not have
a goal of developing my consciousness in this manor anymore. It is a
valued experience, but not relevant to my world except as a
fascinating adventure I took long ago. I value an ability for me to go
inward to access a nice creative space, but that doesn't seem to
require any practice, and once there I am only interested in the
content of thought. That other people are still pursuing this goal
makes perfect sense to me since it is an amazing experience. I
experienced enough for me.
---
[Paul Kurz's]his books helped me sort out my perspective options
when I changed my view on what the epistemological implications of
transcendent experiences.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread Alex Stanley

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take 
  ginseng?
 
 Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
 get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
 roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
 very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
 Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
 L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
 a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
 million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that 
 firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.

Betcha this ginseng tonic has a lot more kick than that overpriced tea:

http://www.bumwine.com/wildirishrose.html





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

At 18% alcohol this is the malt liquors of wines!  I love the addition
of ginseng so you can get your swerve on with your girl in the alley.
 I usually by the one with the roofies added.  It is a sure thing baby!



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Alex Stanley
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Interesting stuff about the Chinese herbalists.  Do you take 
   ginseng?
  
  Yes, but not of the same quality as what I used to
  get from my herbalist friend. He had *single* ginseng
  roots that sold for $10,000 -- wild (not cultivated)
  very rare, and for whom the only real customers were
  Japanese industrialist billionaires who would fly to
  L.A., choose one of the roots, and then brew it into
  a tea and drink it just before going into a multi-
  million-dollar merger meeting. They believed that 
  firmly in the value of the tonic herbs.
 
 Betcha this ginseng tonic has a lot more kick than that overpriced tea:
 
 http://www.bumwine.com/wildirishrose.html








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

On Jul 25, 2006, at 6:56 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote: Spraig, I am disappointed. But by your logic you must contact both the TM's Website and Doug Birx who both refer to the practice of TM as "transcending". Your misinterpretation of what I said, trying to apply it to the mechanics of meditation, as if I were speaking during a checking session, is absurd. But you have one more chance to explain how my use of the term is different from Doug's use. The verb transcending combines inward and outward strokes. In the context both Doug and I are using it, discussing the value of the practice, his high, mine low, it was a perfectly legitimate word. You are right that I could have referred to it as TM, and so could Doug. So could the TM org site when it speaks of "the timeless message of Transcending ". But both of us used the more technical term. Adding "process" or "value" or "technique" added nothing to the discussion. This is a clear case of you putting what I said in a context I clearly did not mean in a transparent attempt to discredit my personal experience of giving up TM. It also pissed on a very nice parade of Off World and I sharing very different conclusions about the practice in the spirit of understanding. You have an unfriendly agenda here. You knew exactly what I meant, didn't you? Resist the dark side Luke. You are better than this. Let's clarify by referring to Mahesh's own (unpublished) translation of the YS of Patanjali and how he *clearly defines* "transcending. In his translation, MMB defines it thusly:"Yoga is bringing *transcending* to the activity of the mind." This is Mahesh's translation of YS I:2.Now let's look at the original language of the Ved: Sanskrit, the language of nature, and see what it says."yogah chitta vrtti nirodhah""yogah" in this sutra can be translated as "yoga (is)".chiita- means "of the mind field".vrtti means fluctuations, modifications, activity.nirodhah means the stopping or controlling of vrttis. In other word it means "transcending". Notice this does not mean "starting mentation again".Note in this definition there is no mention of an outward stroke. In fact the word for outward stroke, "vyutthana", is not even mentioned. If we want to go further into this and describe clearly how the outward stroke means "failure" (to transcend continuously) all we need to do is look closer at this word. It is quite precise in yogic parlance.May the force of real transcending be with you!
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
snip

Vaj, once again you simply don't know what you're
talking about.  There's nothing in what you quote
that contradicts anything Lawson and I have been
saying.

 Let's clarify by referring to Mahesh's own (unpublished) 
translation  
 of the YS of Patanjali and how he *clearly defines* transcending. 
In  
 his translation, MMB defines it thusly:
 
 Yoga is bringing *transcending* to the activity of the mind. 
This  
 is Mahesh's translation of YS I:2.
 
 Now let's look at the original language of the Ved: Sanskrit, the  
 language of nature, and see what it says.
 
 yogah chitta vrtti nirodhah
 
 yogah in this sutra can be translated as yoga (is).
 
 chiita- means of the mind field.
 
 vrtti means fluctuations, modifications, activity.
 
 nirodhah means the stopping or controlling of vrttis. In other 
word  
 it means transcending. Notice this does not mean starting  
 mentation again.
 
 Note in this definition there is no mention of an outward stroke. 
In  
 fact the word for outward stroke, vyutthana, is not even 
mentioned.  
 If we want to go further into this and describe clearly how the  
 outward stroke means failure (to transcend continuously) all we  
 need to do is look closer at this word. It is quite precise in 
yogic  
 parlance.
 
 May the force of real transcending be with you!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
 
 Vaj, once again you simply don't know what you're
 talking about.  There's nothing in what you quote
 that contradicts anything Lawson and I have been
 saying.

P.S.:  I'm pretty sure even Curtis knows you're
blowing smoke.  Let's see if he has the integrity
to say so.  I'm betting he doesn't.



 
  Let's clarify by referring to Mahesh's own (unpublished) 
 translation  
  of the YS of Patanjali and how he *clearly 
defines* transcending. 
 In  
  his translation, MMB defines it thusly:
  
  Yoga is bringing *transcending* to the activity of the mind. 
 This  
  is Mahesh's translation of YS I:2.
  
  Now let's look at the original language of the Ved: Sanskrit, 
the  
  language of nature, and see what it says.
  
  yogah chitta vrtti nirodhah
  
  yogah in this sutra can be translated as yoga (is).
  
  chiita- means of the mind field.
  
  vrtti means fluctuations, modifications, activity.
  
  nirodhah means the stopping or controlling of vrttis. In other 
 word  
  it means transcending. Notice this does not mean starting  
  mentation again.
  
  Note in this definition there is no mention of an outward stroke. 
 In  
  fact the word for outward stroke, vyutthana, is not even 
 mentioned.  
  If we want to go further into this and describe clearly how the  
  outward stroke means failure (to transcend continuously) all 
we  
  need to do is look closer at this word. It is quite precise in 
 yogic  
  parlance.
  
  May the force of real transcending be with you!
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-25 Thread off_world_beings

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
 snip
   Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of natural law
   fun facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.
  
  Did you ever answer that thread that went on for days about wether 
  you actually have ever learned TM ? Everyone here thinks you made
  it up.
 
 Vaj doesn't deign to address mundane, trivial issues
 like whether he makes stuff up.  


Well, someone let me know if he ever decides to own up to his previous 
falsehoods he made to everyone here.

OffWorld







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.

Then how come you got it wrong?



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
cornorstone of
   MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
teaching.
It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all 
the laws
   of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering 
the root
   so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you 
can let
   the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It 
is
   capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold 
mines.  
   
   Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What
   are you talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.
  
  As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending
  is no more valueable than being lost in thoughts...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  Whatever
distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my point. 
It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to believe
that, I couldn't care less. 

To quote a great saint from this very group:

Both you guys need to either get out more often or you
need to get laid. I'm not sure which one it is.

I also liked Turq's idea that you might want to combine the two concepts.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.
 
 Then how come you got it wrong?
 
 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
 cornorstone of
MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
 teaching.
 It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all 
 the laws
of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering 
 the root
so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you 
 can let
the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It 
 is
capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold 
 mines.  

Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What
are you talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.
   
   As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending
   is no more valueable than being lost in thoughts...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
Whatever
 distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my point. 
 It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
 understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to believe
 that, I couldn't care less. 

Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.

Such integrity!



 
 To quote a great saint from this very group:
 
 Both you guys need to either get out more often or you
 need to get laid. I'm not sure which one it is.
 
 I also liked Turq's idea that you might want to combine the two 
concepts.
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.
  
  Then how come you got it wrong?
  
  
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
  cornorstone of
 MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
  teaching.
  It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and 
all 
  the laws
 of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is 
watering 
  the root
 so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so 
you 
  can let
 the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. 
It 
  is
 capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold 
  mines.  
 
 Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What
 are you talking about?  MMY considers 
transcending Valuable.

As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending
is no more valueable than being lost in thoughts...
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
  Whatever
  distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my 
  point. 
  It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
  understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
  believe that, I couldn't care less. 
 
 Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
 the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
 
 Such integrity!

Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
this statement and its defender of the TM faith
author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
integrity -- on the line.

Interesting comparison, eh?







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.

Such integrity!

Says the pot to the kettle.



--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
 Whatever
  distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my point. 
  It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
  understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to believe
  that, I couldn't care less. 
 
 Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
 the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
 
 Such integrity!
 
 
 
  
  To quote a great saint from this very group:
  
  Both you guys need to either get out more often or you
  need to get laid. I'm not sure which one it is.
  
  I also liked Turq's idea that you might want to combine the two 
 concepts.
  
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.
   
   Then how come you got it wrong?
   
   
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
   cornorstone of
  MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
   teaching.
   It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and 
 all 
   the laws
  of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is 
 watering 
   the root
  so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so 
 you 
   can let
  the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. 
 It 
   is
  capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold 
   mines.  
  
  Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What
  are you talking about?  MMY considers 
 transcending Valuable.
 
 As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending
 is no more valueable than being lost in thoughts...
  
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
 the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
 
 Such integrity!
 
 Says the pot to the kettle.

Hardly.  When I make a mistake, I admit it.

And I never use ad hominem without also demonstrating
how it applies.


 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
  Whatever
   distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my 
point. 
   It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
   understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
believe
   that, I couldn't care less. 
  
  Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
  the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
  
  Such integrity!
  
  
  
   
   To quote a great saint from this very group:
   
   Both you guys need to either get out more often or you
   need to get laid. I'm not sure which one it is.
   
   I also liked Turq's idea that you might want to combine the two 
  concepts.
   
   
   
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.

Then how come you got it wrong?



 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
cornorstone of
   MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of 
his 
teaching.
It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge 
and 
  all 
the laws
   of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is 
  watering 
the root
   so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow 
so 
  you 
can let
   the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before 
activity. 
  It 
is
   capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and 
gold 
mines.  
   
   Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  
What
   are you talking about?  MMY considers 
  transcending Valuable.
  
  As long as you are doing the technique correctly, 
transcending
  is no more valueable than being lost in thoughts...
   
  
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
   Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my life 
   or my point. 
   It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
   understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
   believe that, I couldn't care less. 
  
  Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
  the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
  
  Such integrity!
 
 Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
 compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
 this statement and its defender of the TM faith
 author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
 zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
 integrity -- on the line.
 
 Interesting comparison, eh?

Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.

And of course there's no consideration of the
context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
experience of transcending, suggesting that
it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
out--that no experience during TM is of any
greater value than any other, including random
thoughts.

That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
meditating properly, if he thought there was
supposed to be great value in the experience
of transcending.

This error, uncorrected, might well have
served to discourage folks who would otherwise
have been in a position at some point to
demonstrate their courage and humanity by
joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
war zone.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my 
life or my point. 
It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
believe that, I couldn't care less. 
   
   Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
   the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
   
   Such integrity!
  
  Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
  compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
  this statement and its defender of the TM faith
  author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
  zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
  integrity -- on the line.
  
  Interesting comparison, eh?
 
 Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
 of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
 plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
 to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
 to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.
 
 And of course there's no consideration of the
 context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
 experience of transcending, suggesting that
 it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
 TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
 out--that no experience during TM is of any
 greater value than any other, including random
 thoughts.
 
 That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
 meditating properly, if he thought there was
 supposed to be great value in the experience
 of transcending.
 
 This error, uncorrected, might well have
 served to discourage folks who would otherwise
 have been in a position at some point to
 demonstrate their courage and humanity by
 joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
 war zone.

Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
Potter Character Are You? quiz at:

http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter

I'm bettin' on Hermione. 

You're trying to berate someone and make them
publicly confess the error of their ways because
they didn't speak the exact words that were in
the textbook.

That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
 Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
 
 http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
 
 I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
 
 You're trying to berate someone and make them
 publicly confess the error of their ways because
 they didn't speak the exact words that were in
 the textbook.
 
 That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.

or Gilmore Girls

Paris or Emily?

(yes, i must be totally gay -- I like the show -- it actually has some
Austenish fast paced witty and subtle dialogue -- 30% -- which doesn't
quite overshdow the 40% that is insipid cuteness. But still. Just use
fast forward.  )










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 or Gilmore Girls
 
 Paris or Emily?
 
 (yes, i must be totally gay -- I like the show -- it actually has some
 Austenish fast paced witty and subtle dialogue -- 30% -- which doesn't
 quite overshdow the 40% that is insipid cuteness. But still. Just use
 fast forward.  )

I haven't seen it. I don't think it's been aired
in France yet.

And I didn't mean to malgn Hermione earlier. She
starts out kinda pissy, but she grows out of it.
That's one of the neat things about the Harry
Potter books -- JKRowling lets her children grow.

I loved the Harry Potter books. I think they're
smokin'. I'd heard about this quiz but never taken 
it myself until today. It says that I'm Hagrid.
I can live with that.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who asked
me about my experiences.  I was expressing my personal opinion.

The verb transcending, combines all the parts of the TM process that
Spraig was so quick to add, including the mechanics of stress release
theory.  If I had used the phrase the state of transcendence, your
point would have more merit.  But in a group of experienced
meditators, my use was completely valid. Everyone knew what I was
talking about including you and Spraig.  Sometimes the verb
transcending is used to describe the state of transcendent.  But in
my discussion of my own experiences, I am not using it that way. I was
discussing my choice to drop the whole practice of TM with people
already familiar with the practice.  

The original quotes:

As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. 

Get out your bubble diagrams here and follow along Judy and Spraig.

And the next time I use the term:

How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that?

Judy and Spraig, want to take my use out of context, to make it look
like I didn't memorize and get tested on the elementary point they are
bringing up.

So if you want to assert the position that the term transcending is
never used as a description of the whole meditation process, please go
ahead.  I would enjoy that.

Now here is my explanation to Spraig:

Me: 'OK. I thought you were joking. Transcending is the cornorstone of
MMY's program. It is the single most important part of his teaching.
It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
of nature. It is going to the highest first. It is watering the root
so you can enjoy the fruit. It is pulling back the bow so you can let
the arrow of activity fly. It is the rest before activity. It is
capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.

Come on Spraig help me out here. You are a sharp guy. What are you
talking about? MMY considers transcending Valuable.'

Notice my use of the phrases, going to the home of all Knowledge, a
clear reference to the whole process.  Going to the highest first, 
Watering the root, pulling back the bow, capturing the fort.  All
these examples that make it clear what I was talking about, the whole
process of TM.  Did you guys sincerely miss all that?  Or are you
trying to bust my balls because you can't accept that someone can
value this experience so differently?


And the full first post to avoid the Judy trick of claiming selective
quotes:


I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and TM
for 15 years. Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
the experience again. I think the experience's value is not as
self-evident as some claim. Maybe the belief system has to support
it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
out these days. As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy. I think
it is sort of a mini epileptic fit. Not too dangerous probably, but
not the greatest experience ever. I don't see people who have kept
it up as special in any way I can detect. By now it really should
have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
long. In the old days we would joke that without TM a person might be
even worse! That claim is getting hollower and hollower each decade.

As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. Relaxation seems necessary in my
life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program. The biggest
wellbeing booster for me is exercise. That experience seems to give
me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added benefit
of giving me much more energy. All that eyes closed time of the
program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims. I don't hang
out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just never
considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the afternoon.
There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow. I
have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
have it any other way!

I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it. At the DC
center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 10,000
people who had been initiated at the center. I don't remember the
numbers but it shocked us at the time. How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that? Posting on this group has
made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program. Even
that level of interaction doesn't seem to be self-evidently positive
enough to keep people doing it.

So we are all left with our personal choices. People on this group
are pretty entertaining. Most of the people I seem to get along with
best have moved on from TM. The TM link is just a common

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
 Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my 
 life or my point. 
 It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow 
never
 understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
 believe that, I couldn't care less. 

Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.

Such integrity!
   
   Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
   compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
   this statement and its defender of the TM faith
   author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
   zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
   integrity -- on the line.
   
   Interesting comparison, eh?
  
  Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
  of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
  plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
  to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
  to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.
  
  And of course there's no consideration of the
  context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
  experience of transcending, suggesting that
  it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
  TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
  out--that no experience during TM is of any
  greater value than any other, including random
  thoughts.
  
  That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
  meditating properly, if he thought there was
  supposed to be great value in the experience
  of transcending.
  
  This error, uncorrected, might well have
  served to discourage folks who would otherwise
  have been in a position at some point to
  demonstrate their courage and humanity by
  joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
  war zone.
 
 Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
 Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
 
 http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
 
 I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
 
 You're trying to berate someone and make them
 publicly confess the error of their ways because
 they didn't speak the exact words that were in
 the textbook.

Uh, no, you appear to be missing the point (or doing
your damndest to lead others to miss it).

Not using the exact words that were in the textbook,
in this case, may well represent a significant conceptual
difference that would negatively affect one's TM practice.

I suggested to Curtis earlier that he may have meant to 
write process of transcending versus experience of
transcending, but he ignored the suggestion.  Then he
claimed the distinction wasn't relevant, which seems to
indicate pretty clearly that he *doesn't* understand
that valuing the *experience* of transcending in TM is
contrary to correct practice.

Words *do* make a difference, especially in the context
of TM practice.

Of course, it may well be that he *does* recognize the
difference but simply can't bring himself to admit that
he inadvertently used a word that represents an
incorrect approach.  Why that would be such a problem
for him is unclear, but it certainly does not speak
well for his integrity.



 That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
 
  or Gilmore Girls
  
  Paris or Emily?
  
  (yes, i must be totally gay -- I like the show -- it actually has some
  Austenish fast paced witty and subtle dialogue -- 30% -- which doesn't
  quite overshdow the 40% that is insipid cuteness. But still. Just use
  fast forward.  )
 
 I haven't seen it. I don't think it's been aired
 in France yet.
 
 And I didn't mean to malgn Hermione earlier. She
 starts out kinda pissy, but she grows out of it.
 That's one of the neat things about the Harry
 Potter books -- JKRowling lets her children grow.
 
 I loved the Harry Potter books. I think they're
 smokin'. I'd heard about this quiz but never taken 
 it myself until today. It says that I'm Hagrid.
 I can live with that.

Its been on for 5-6 seasons. Though I am a recent convert. 
Its available via NetFlix.









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
   Whatever
   distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my 
   point. 
   It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
   understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
   believe that, I couldn't care less. 
  
  Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
  the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
  
  Such integrity!
 
 Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
 compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
 this statement and its defender of the TM faith
 author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
 zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
 integrity -- on the line.
 
 Interesting comparison, eh?.

Says Turqoise as he slurps another glass of the vino while oggling 
the young women as they walk by.

OffWorld





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
 wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
 wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
  Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my 
  life or my point. 
  It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow 
 never
  understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
  believe that, I couldn't care less. 
 
 Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
 the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
 
 Such integrity!

Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
this statement and its defender of the TM faith
author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
integrity -- on the line.

Interesting comparison, eh?
   
   Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
   of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
   plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
   to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
   to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.
   
   And of course there's no consideration of the
   context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
   experience of transcending, suggesting that
   it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
   TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
   out--that no experience during TM is of any
   greater value than any other, including random
   thoughts.
   
   That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
   meditating properly, if he thought there was
   supposed to be great value in the experience
   of transcending.
   
   This error, uncorrected, might well have
   served to discourage folks who would otherwise
   have been in a position at some point to
   demonstrate their courage and humanity by
   joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
   war zone.
  
  Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
  Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
  
  http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
  
  I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
  
  You're trying to berate someone and make them
  publicly confess the error of their ways because
  they didn't speak the exact words that were in
  the textbook.
 
 Uh, no, you appear to be missing the point (or doing
 your damndest to lead others to miss it).
 
 Not using the exact words that were in the textbook,
 in this case, may well represent a significant conceptual
 difference that would negatively affect one's TM practice.
 
 I suggested to Curtis earlier that he may have meant to 
 write process of transcending versus experience of
 transcending, but he ignored the suggestion.  Then he
 claimed the distinction wasn't relevant, which seems to
 indicate pretty clearly that he *doesn't* understand
 that valuing the *experience* of transcending in TM is
 contrary to correct practice.
 
 Words *do* make a difference, especially in the context
 of TM practice.
 
 Of course, it may well be that he *does* recognize the
 difference but simply can't bring himself to admit that
 he inadvertently used a word that represents an
 incorrect approach.  Why that would be such a problem
 for him is unclear, but it certainly does not speak
 well for his integrity.

It *was* Hermione, wasn't it?  :-)







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 24, 2006, at 2:36 PM, TurquoiseB wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  or Gilmore Girls  Paris or Emily?  (yes, i must be totally gay -- I like the show -- it actually has some Austenish fast paced witty and subtle dialogue -- 30% -- which doesn't quite overshdow the 40% that is insipid cuteness. But still. Just use fast forward.  )  I haven't seen it. I don't think it's been aired in France yet.  And I didn't mean to malgn Hermione earlier. She starts out kinda pissy, but she grows out of it. That's one of the neat things about the Harry Potter books -- JKRowling lets her children grow.  I loved the Harry Potter books. I think they're smokin'. I'd heard about this quiz but never taken  it myself until today. It says that I'm Hagrid. I can live with that. Albus Dumbledore here.
__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.  
Whatever
distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or my 
point. 
It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
believe that, I couldn't care less. 
   
   Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
   the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
   
   Such integrity!
  
  Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
  compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
  this statement and its defender of the TM faith
  author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
  zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
  integrity -- on the line.
  
  Interesting comparison, eh?.
 
 Says Turqoise as he slurps another glass of the vino while oggling 
 the young women as they walk by.

Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
good seeing.







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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 24, 2006, at 2:41 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Come on Spraig help me out here. You are a sharp guy. What are you talking about? MMY considers transcending "Valuable".'  Notice my use of the phrases, "going to the home of all Knowledge", a clear reference to the whole process.  "Going to the highest first", " Watering the root", "pulling back the bow", "capturing the fort".  All these examples that make it clear what I was talking about, the whole process of TM.  Did you guys sincerely miss all that?  Or are you trying to bust my balls because you can't accept that someone can value this experience so differently? Bingo. Only parrots allowed!
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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
 good seeing.

Come on Unc, make the relevance clear for Doug.

Seer, process of seeing, object of seeing. All merge. and become one. 

At least thats your Intention. Intention is important. Attention
becomes Intention.





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who 
 asked me about my experiences.

You have no way of knowing that, Curtis.

 I was expressing my personal opinion.

Of course.  That's irrelevant.

 The verb transcending, combines all the parts of the TM process that
 Spraig was so quick to add, including the mechanics of stress 
 release theory.  If I had used the phrase the state of 
 transcendence, your point would have more merit.

If you had used the phrase the process of transcending,
as I suggested you might have meant rather than the
experience of transcending, I wouldn't *have* a point.

The distinction Lawson and I are pressing is between
experience and process.  Lawson noted, quite 
correctly, that the *experience* of transcending 
(whether that refers simply to going to subtler levels
of thought or the state of transcendence) is not of any
more value than the experience of having thoughts,
according to MMY.

  But in a group 
 of experienced meditators, my use was completely valid.

*Especially* in a group of experienced meditators,
your use of the term experience of transcending was
*not* valid.  Any TMers who don't have a lot of 
experience who may be lurking, moreover, could be
seriously misled.

Everyone 
 knew what I was talking about including you and Spraig.  Sometimes 
the verb
 transcending is used to describe the state of transcendent.  But 
in
 my discussion of my own experiences, I am not using it that way. I 
was
 discussing my choice to drop the whole practice of TM with people
 already familiar with the practice.

Red herring.  

 The original quotes:
 
 As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
 overrated as a valuable experience. 
 
 Get out your bubble diagrams here and follow along Judy and Spraig.
 
 And the next time I use the term:
 
 How could so many people drop
 the practice if transcending was all that?
 
 Judy and Spraig, want to take my use out of context, to make it look
 like I didn't memorize and get tested on the elementary point they
 are bringing up.

We weren't taking it out of context, Curtis.  It *is*
an elementary point, and your use of the term experience
suggests that you didn't get it, whether you memorized
and were tested on it or not.

 So if you want to assert the position that the term transcending 
 is never used as a description of the whole meditation process, 
 please go ahead.  I would enjoy that.

Transcending is never used as a description of the
whole meditation process, it's used as a description
of the inward stroke of the meditation process, as
well as of experience of the state of the transcendent.
It is *not* used for the outward stroke because
transcending is exactly the reverse of that.

Neither Lawson nor I took your use of transcending to
mean only the state of transcendence.  That's a red
herring, and you know it.

 Now here is my explanation to Spraig
 
 Me: 'OK. I thought you were joking. Transcending is the cornorstone 
of
 MMY's program. It is the single most important part of his teaching.
 It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the 
laws
 of nature. It is going to the highest first. It is watering the root
 so you can enjoy the fruit. It is pulling back the bow so you can 
let
 the arrow of activity fly. It is the rest before activity. It is
 capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.
 
 Come on Spraig help me out here. You are a sharp guy. What are you
 talking about? MMY considers transcending Valuable.'
 
 Notice my use of the phrases, going to the home of all Knowledge, 
a
 clear reference to the whole process.  Going to the highest 
first, 
 Watering the root, pulling back the bow, capturing the fort.  
All
 these examples that make it clear what I was talking about, the 
whole
 process of TM.  Did you guys sincerely miss all that?  Or are you
 trying to bust my balls because you can't accept that someone can
 value this experience so differently?

All a red herring, Curtis, and once again you refer
to the *experience* rather than the *process* here
at the end.  If you're valuing the *experience*, 
that is simply not TM.

If you had just said, Oh, yeah, I should have used the
term 'process' rather than 'experience,' that would
have been that.  We all inadvertently goof on the
terminology from time to time.

The fact that you're going way around Robin Hood's barn
to deny you used the wrong term suggests that either you
still don't understand *why* it's the wrong term, or that
you find it necessary to try to cover up the mistake.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 24, 2006, at 2:41 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  Come on Spraig help me out here. You are a sharp guy. What are you
  talking about? MMY considers transcending Valuable.'
 
  Notice my use of the phrases, going to the home of all 
Knowledge, a
  clear reference to the whole process.  Going to the highest 
first, 
  Watering the root, pulling back the bow, capturing the 
fort.  All
  these examples that make it clear what I was talking about, the 
whole
  process of TM.  Did you guys sincerely miss all that?  Or are you
  trying to bust my balls because you can't accept that someone can
  value this experience so differently?
 
 
 Bingo. Only parrots allowed!

Not.  This is a red herring, and I suspect you're
well aware of it.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
  wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend 
jstein@ 
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so 
cute.
   Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to 
my 
   life or my point. 
   It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I 
somehow 
  never
   understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you 
happy to 
   believe that, I couldn't care less. 
  
  Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
  the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.
  
  Such integrity!
 
 Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
 compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
 this statement and its defender of the TM faith
 author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
 zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
 integrity -- on the line.
 
 Interesting comparison, eh?

Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.

And of course there's no consideration of the
context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
experience of transcending, suggesting that
it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
out--that no experience during TM is of any
greater value than any other, including random
thoughts.

That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
meditating properly, if he thought there was
supposed to be great value in the experience
of transcending.

This error, uncorrected, might well have
served to discourage folks who would otherwise
have been in a position at some point to
demonstrate their courage and humanity by
joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
war zone.
   
   Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
   Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
   
   http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
   
   I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
   
   You're trying to berate someone and make them
   publicly confess the error of their ways because
   they didn't speak the exact words that were in
   the textbook.
  
  Uh, no, you appear to be missing the point (or doing
  your damndest to lead others to miss it).
  
  Not using the exact words that were in the textbook,
  in this case, may well represent a significant conceptual
  difference that would negatively affect one's TM practice.
  
  I suggested to Curtis earlier that he may have meant to 
  write process of transcending versus experience of
  transcending, but he ignored the suggestion.  Then he
  claimed the distinction wasn't relevant, which seems to
  indicate pretty clearly that he *doesn't* understand
  that valuing the *experience* of transcending in TM is
  contrary to correct practice.
  
  Words *do* make a difference, especially in the context
  of TM practice.
  
  Of course, it may well be that he *does* recognize the
  difference but simply can't bring himself to admit that
  he inadvertently used a word that represents an
  incorrect approach.  Why that would be such a problem
  for him is unclear, but it certainly does not speak
  well for his integrity.
 
 It *was* Hermione, wasn't it?  :-)

Minerva McGonagall, sorry to disappoint.  Hermione
was 10th of 18.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  It *was* Hermione, wasn't it?  :-)
 
 Minerva McGonagall, sorry to disappoint.  Hermione
 was 10th of 18.

I didn't really think you'd be Hermione. She's
way too cool. I just wanted to see who you'd be.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva_McGonagall








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so 
cute.  
 Whatever
 distinction you are making has no relevance to my life or 
my 
 point. 
 It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow 
never
 understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy 
to 
 believe that, I couldn't care less. 

Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.

Such integrity!
   
   Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
   compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
   this statement and its defender of the TM faith
   author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
   zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
   integrity -- on the line.
   
   Interesting comparison, eh?.
  
  Says Turqoise as he slurps another glass of the vino while 
oggling 
  the young women as they walk by.
 
 Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
 good seeing.

They are too young for you.

OffWorld







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

  
  Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
  good seeing.
 
 They are too young for you.
 
 OffWorld

Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. Manu
advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 60
now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
in-tuned with Natural Law. 

And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)

Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off? 











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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Judy:
 *Especially* in a group of experienced meditators,
 your use of the term experience of transcending was
 *not* valid.  Any TMers who don't have a lot of
 experience who may be lurking, moreover, could be
 seriously misled.


ME: So if I understand you Judy, this was not just a personal attempt
to discredit what I said by nitpicking the words I used, it was a
critical mission that you are on to make sure that the poor new
meditators (lurkers) were not mislead by my use of  transcending as
an expression for the practice of TM.  Some meditators might not take
the instructions of their own teacher seriously, but might defer to a
guy who has not meditated in 17 years?  And only your superior
understanding of the teaching will save them?  And no trained teacher
could speak up and correct my error, so you had to take on the role of
the Word Police and save the day?

But your imagined role in the world gets better than this doesn't it
Judy?  Here you are going to assume the role of  Team Judy, World
Police aren't you?

Judy (different post) to Turq: This error, uncorrected, might well have
served to discourage folks who would otherwise
have been in a position at some point to
demonstrate their courage and humanity by
joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
war zone.

So me writing about me dropping the practice after 15 years might be
connected with the lack of people going to a war zone to practice TM
Sidhis?  If they hear that I dropped out of TM and don't value it
anymore, we might lack the necessary people to stop the war?  Holy
shit Judy, now I get it!  This is an urgent lifesaving mission you are
on.  God bless you Judy. Your selfless work (unrecognized by the TM
group itself), is an inspiration to us all.

Neither of our opinions are that important to anyone but ourselves. 
We are just a bunch of people shooting the shit.  Most people here get
that, and don't take these words so seriously.  But if you do. I would
recommend that you take a TTC course and get the credentials you so
desperately covet.  That way new meditators can hang on your every
word of wisdom.  But put away your pretensions of  lecturing to the
former teachers on this group about the basic mechanics of the
practice.  All your inward stroke, outward stroke nonsense just
makes you look like a TM teacher wannabe.

Now for all you poor little lurkers out there...

All of you who were confused by anything I said, please go to your
local TM center and have your TM practice checked by a qualified TM
checker.  I do not represent the opinions of the TM organization, only
my own. 

And for all you sidhas who are hanging on my every word to decide if
you should go into a war zone to practice Yogic flying as a means to
end war...

Please assume the plow position, and if your are flexible enough, kiss
your ass goodby!  If aren't comfortable doing that then practice your
sidhis out of harm's way.


































--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who 
  asked me about my experiences.
 
 You have no way of knowing that, Curtis.
 
  I was expressing my personal opinion.
 
 Of course.  That's irrelevant.
 
  The verb transcending, combines all the parts of the TM process that
  Spraig was so quick to add, including the mechanics of stress 
  release theory.  If I had used the phrase the state of 
  transcendence, your point would have more merit.
 
 If you had used the phrase the process of transcending,
 as I suggested you might have meant rather than the
 experience of transcending, I wouldn't *have* a point.
 
 The distinction Lawson and I are pressing is between
 experience and process.  Lawson noted, quite 
 correctly, that the *experience* of transcending 
 (whether that refers simply to going to subtler levels
 of thought or the state of transcendence) is not of any
 more value than the experience of having thoughts,
 according to MMY.
 
   But in a group 
  of experienced meditators, my use was completely valid.
 
 *Especially* in a group of experienced meditators,
 your use of the term experience of transcending was
 *not* valid.  Any TMers who don't have a lot of 
 experience who may be lurking, moreover, could be
 seriously misled.
 
 Everyone 
  knew what I was talking about including you and Spraig.  Sometimes 
 the verb
  transcending is used to describe the state of transcendent.  But 
 in
  my discussion of my own experiences, I am not using it that way. I 
 was
  discussing my choice to drop the whole practice of TM with people
  already familiar with the practice.
 
 Red herring.  
 
  The original quotes:
  
  As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
  overrated as a valuable experience. 
  
  Get out your bubble diagrams here and follow along Judy and Spraig.
  
  And the next time I use the

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

   Says Turqoise as he slurps another glass of the vino while 
   oggling the young women as they walk by.
  
  Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
  good seeing.
 
 They are too young for you.

True, but what a way to go...








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
   
   Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
   good seeing.
  
  They are too young for you.
 
 Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. Manu
 advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 60
 now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
 in-tuned with Natural Law. 
 
 And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)

I just let her read this. I'll let you know
how it turns out.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-24 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 Are and Spraig playing stump the teacher?  That is so cute.
 Whatever distinction you are making has no relevance to my 
 life or my point. 
 It is a desperate attempt to make it seem like I somehow never
 understood TM like you guys do.  If that makes you happy to 
 believe that, I couldn't care less. 

Says Curtis, launching an ad hominem attack (shooting
the messenger) instead of admitting that he got it wrong.

Such integrity!
   
   Compare and contrast the state of consciousness,
   compassion, courage, and just plain humanity of
   this statement and its defender of the TM faith
   author to those TMers sitting in a hotel in a war 
   zone in Israel, putting their beliefs -- and yes,
   integrity -- on the line.
   
   Interesting comparison, eh?
  
  Notice Barry does not compare *Curtis's* state
  of consciousness, compassion, courage, and just
  plain humanity--not to mention his willingness
  to put his own beliefs and integrity on the line--
  to the Israeli TMers.  IOKIFAAT.
  
  And of course there's no consideration of the
  context.  Curtis questioned the value of the 
  experience of transcending, suggesting that
  it's been vastly overrated, when, as a former
  TM teacher, he ought to know--as Lawson pointed
  out--that no experience during TM is of any
  greater value than any other, including random
  thoughts.
  
  That *does* suggest that Curtis was not
  meditating properly, if he thought there was
  supposed to be great value in the experience
  of transcending.
  
  This error, uncorrected, might well have
  served to discourage folks who would otherwise
  have been in a position at some point to
  demonstrate their courage and humanity by
  joining a group practicing the TM-Sidhis in a
  war zone.
 
 Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
 Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
 
 http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
 
 I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
 
 You're trying to berate someone and make them
 publicly confess the error of their ways because
 they didn't speak the exact words that were in
 the textbook.
 
 That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.


There's plenty of ways of expressing mathemtical ideas, but if you end up 
saying that 2 is 
an even number, its wrong, no matter how you put it.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
 
  Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
  Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
  
  http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
  
  I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
  
  You're trying to berate someone and make them
  publicly confess the error of their ways because
  they didn't speak the exact words that were in
  the textbook.
  
  That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.
 
 There's plenty of ways of expressing mathemtical ideas, 
 but if you end up saying that 2 is an even number, its 
 wrong, no matter how you put it.

I...uh...stand corrected, Ma'am.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend jstein@ wrote:
 
   It *was* Hermione, wasn't it?  :-)
  
  Minerva McGonagall, sorry to disappoint.  Hermione
  was 10th of 18.
 
 I didn't really think you'd be Hermione. She's
 way too cool. I just wanted to see who you'd be.

LOL!!  You pathetic loser.

How about a nice long drink of DHMO?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DHMO


 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minerva_McGonagall






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

Curtis:
  Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who
  asked me about my experiences.
snip
 But in a group
  of experienced meditators, my use was completely valid.
 Judy:
  *Especially* in a group of experienced meditators,
  your use of the term experience of transcending was
  *not* valid.  Any TMers who don't have a lot of
  experience who may be lurking, moreover, could be
  seriously misled.
 
 ME: So if I understand you Judy, this was not just a personal 
 attempt to discredit what I said by nitpicking the words I used

It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
refusing to do so.

As I said, if you had, that would have been the
end of it.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
 you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
 refusing to do so.
 


http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html

From the TM org site:

1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science
-- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative Intelligence,
training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the
timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.


But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people about
the value of thoughts in meditaion?


http://www.enmag.org/09/9birx2.htm

Enlightenment: What is it that inspires Meditators to take the next
step, to learn the TM-Sidhi program?

Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
appreciating what a great value that is to their life. On that basis,
there is an openness when Maharishi brings out the point, through a
lecture or a tape, that we could accelerate this growth of consciousness.

Maharishi said this new technique would be something that would more
quickly shrink the gap between our present ability to transcend and
the time that would be coming in the future, through repeated
transcending, when this experience would become an all time reality.
arriving at that source of thought. Maharishi said this new technique
would be something that would more quickly shrink the gap between our
present ability to transcend and the time that would be coming in the
future, through repeated transcending, when this experience would
become an all time reality.

In the West, Meditators had been transcending for 35 or 40 years, so
the Laws of Nature were being directly enlivened for all that time.
But the Soviet Union hadn't had any Meditators until shortly before we
arrived.

Me:
But wont a person appreciating the great value of transcending prove
that they don't understand the teaching like Judy does?  What would
Doug Birx know about the use of the word transcending.  You might
want to get him to tighten up Judy.

My original quotes:

As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience. 

How could so many people drop
the practice if transcending was all that?

Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
appreciating what a great value that is to their life.

Now lets see Judy's integrity at work.









--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, authfriend [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
 Curtis:
   Judy, no one cares what I think of TM except the kind person who
   asked me about my experiences.
 snip
  But in a group
   of experienced meditators, my use was completely valid.
  Judy:
   *Especially* in a group of experienced meditators,
   your use of the term experience of transcending was
   *not* valid.  Any TMers who don't have a lot of
   experience who may be lurking, moreover, could be
   seriously misled.
  
  ME: So if I understand you Judy, this was not just a personal 
  attempt to discredit what I said by nitpicking the words I used
 
 It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
 you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
 refusing to do so.
 
 As I said, if you had, that would have been the
 end of it.








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
   
   Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
   good seeing.
  
  They are too young for you.
  
  OffWorld
 
 Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. 
Manu
 advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 
60
 now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
 in-tuned with Natural Law. 
 
 And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
 
 Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off?

He's checking out the 12 year-olds
(jest kiddin' Turq.)





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
  wrote:
   
   They are too young for you.
  
  Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. Manu
  advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 60
  now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
  in-tuned with Natural Law. 
  
  And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
 
 I just let her read this. I'll let you know
 how it turns out.

Vas-y!







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ 
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
  wrote:
  

Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
good seeing.
   
   They are too young for you.
   
   OffWorld
  
  Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. 
 Manu
  advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 
 60
  now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
  in-tuned with Natural Law. 
  
  And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
  
  Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off?
 
 He's checking out the 12 year-olds
 (jest kiddin' Turq.)

No, Barry is too old. Manu recommended 12 year olds for 30ish guys. No
joke. And guess what age 24 yr olds should pursue in order to uphold
natural Law?

Sure you don't want to rethink this Natural Law thing?


  










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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 24, 2006, at 6:37 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word  you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by refusing to do so.http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html  From the TM org site:  1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative Intelligence, training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.   But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people about the value of thoughts in meditaion? ROFLOL, Good one Curtis.
__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word 
  you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
  refusing to do so.
  
 
 
 http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html
 
 From the TM org site:
 
 1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new science
 -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative 
Intelligence,
 training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring the
 timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.
 
 
 But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people 
about
 the value of thoughts in meditaion?
 
 
 http://www.enmag.org/09/9birx2.htm
 
 Enlightenment: What is it that inspires Meditators to take the next
 step, to learn the TM-Sidhi program?
 
 Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
 appreciating what a great value that is to their life. On that 
basis,
 there is an openness when Maharishi brings out the point, through a
 lecture or a tape, that we could accelerate this growth of 
consciousness.
 
 Maharishi said this new technique would be something that would 
more
 quickly shrink the gap between our present ability to transcend and
 the time that would be coming in the future, through repeated
 transcending, when this experience would become an all time reality.
 arriving at that source of thought. Maharishi said this new 
technique
 would be something that would more quickly shrink the gap between 
our
 present ability to transcend and the time that would be coming in 
the
 future, through repeated transcending, when this experience would
 become an all time reality.
 
 In the West, Meditators had been transcending for 35 or 40 years, 
so
 the Laws of Nature were being directly enlivened for all that time.
 But the Soviet Union hadn't had any Meditators until shortly before 
we
 arrived.
 
 Me:
 But wont a person appreciating the great value of transcending 
prove
 that they don't understand the teaching like Judy does?  What would
 Doug Birx know about the use of the word transcending.  You might
 want to get him to tighten up Judy.
 
 My original quotes:
 
 As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
 overrated as a valuable experience. 
 
 How could so many people drop
 the practice if transcending was all that?
 
 Doug Birx: The foundation is a good experience of transcending, and
 appreciating what a great value that is to their life.
 
 Now lets see Judy's integrity at work.

Let's see *your* integrity at work, Curtis.  What's
the difference between what you said and what Doug
is saying?

Hint: He is *not* talking about valuing the experience
*during meditation*.








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Re: [FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping



On Jul 24, 2006, at 7:16 PM, new.morning wrote:--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@  wrote:  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@ wrote:   Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise, good "seeing."  They are too young for you.  OffWorld  Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law.  Manu advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about  60 now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and in-tuned with Natural Law.   And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)  Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off?  He's checking out the 12 year-olds (jest kiddin' Turq.)  No, Barry is too old. Manu recommended 12 year olds for 30ish guys. No joke. And guess what age 24 yr olds should pursue in order to uphold natural Law?  Sure you don't want to rethink this Natural Law thing? Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of "natural law" fun facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.
__._,_.___





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
  wrote:
  

Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
good seeing.
   
   They are too young for you.
  
  Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law. Manu
  advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is about 60
  now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
  in-tuned with Natural Law. 
  
  And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
 
 I just let her read this. I'll let you know
 how it turns out.

Oops. A closer look at Manu's numbers imply a formula of
f=m/3+(m-24)/3, where f = female age and m= male age. 

So sorry Barry, 20  year olds are not  optimal for you. To be in tune
with Natural Law you should focus on 32 yr olds.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 24, 2006, at 6:37 PM, curtisdeltablues wrote:
 
  Judy: It was an attempt to get you to *correct* the word
  you used, Curtis.  You've discredited yourself by
  refusing to do so.
 
 
 
  http://www.tm.org/main_pages/maharishi.html
 
  From the TM org site:
 
  1972: Maharishi inaugurates his World Plan and creates a new 
science
  -- the Science of Consciousness, the Science of Creative 
Intelligence,
  training 2,000 teachers of this science [by now 40,000] to bring 
the
  timeless message of Transcending to all parts of the globe.
 
 
  But wont him teaching the message of transcending confuse people 
about
  the value of thoughts in meditaion?
 
 ROFLOL, Good one Curtis.

Wow, you're as out of it as Curtis is.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@ 
  wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@
   wrote:
   
 
 Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
 good seeing.

They are too young for you.

OffWorld
   
   Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural 
Law. 
  Manu
   advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is 
about 
  60
   now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
   in-tuned with Natural Law. 
   
   And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
   
   Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off?
  
  He's checking out the 12 year-olds
  (jest kiddin' Turq.)
 
 No, Barry is too old. Manu recommended 12 year olds for 30ish 
guys. No
 joke. And guess what age 24 yr olds should pursue in order to 
uphold
 natural Law?
 
 Sure you don't want to rethink this Natural Law thing?

I don't bother with all that stuff. That is for TMO types such as 
yourself.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 
 On Jul 24, 2006, at 7:16 PM, new.morning wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, new.morning no_reply@
  wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings 
no_reply@
  wrote:
 
 
  Not bad. It's a coffee, but otherwise,
  good seeing.
 
  They are too young for you.
 
  OffWorld
 
  Not according to the Laws of Manu -- the source of Natural Law.
  Manu
  advocated about a 3:1 age differential. Estimating Barry is 
about
  60
  now, 20 year olds, are optimal for him -- and the Cosmos -- and
  in-tuned with Natural Law.
 
  And he has SOOO much true wisdom to share with young minds. :)
 
  Are you opposed to Natural Law, Off?
 
  He's checking out the 12 year-olds
  (jest kiddin' Turq.)
 
  No, Barry is too old. Manu recommended 12 year olds for 30ish 
guys. No
  joke. And guess what age 24 yr olds should pursue in order to 
uphold
  natural Law?
 
  Sure you don't want to rethink this Natural Law thing?
 
 
 Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of natural law fun  
 facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.

Did you ever answer that thread that went on for days about wether 
you actually have ever learned TM ? Everyone here thinks you made it 
up.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, Vaj vajranatha@ wrote:
snip
  Oh I'm sure I could come up with a long list of natural law
  fun facts that would curdle the blood of most meditators.
 
 Did you ever answer that thread that went on for days about wether 
 you actually have ever learned TM ? Everyone here thinks you made
 it up.

Vaj doesn't deign to address mundane, trivial issues
like whether he makes stuff up.  As with Barry, concern
for the facts is for inferior, less-evolved beings.






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-24 Thread sparaig

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB no_reply@ wrote:
  
   Have you ever considered taking the Which Harry
   Potter Character Are You? quiz at:
   
   http://www.selectsmart.com/FREE/select.php?client=hpcharacter
   
   I'm bettin' on Hermione. 
   
   You're trying to berate someone and make them
   publicly confess the error of their ways because
   they didn't speak the exact words that were in
   the textbook.
   
   That just makes you a grumpy schoolmarm, not smart.
  
  There's plenty of ways of expressing mathemtical ideas, 
  but if you end up saying that 2 is an even number, its 
  wrong, no matter how you put it.
 
 I...uh...stand corrected, Ma'am.


I, er, shouldn't post messages with only zero hours sleep.










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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread TurquoiseB

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 One thing I noticed that was interesting about this thread on yogic 
 flying was that apart from Dave - correct me if I am wrong, as I 
 didn't read all - but all of the anti-TM'rs (apart from Vaj who hasn't 
 learned TM or yogic flying) said they had good experiences of yogic 
 flying and that the whole 'levitation' part was unimportnant.
 
 Interesting phenomena: The first time I've seen a thread here where 
 all the yogic flyers (wether 'for' or 'against' TMO) agree that it was 
 a good thing and that they would not have missed the chance to learn 
 it.
 
 Correct me if I am wrong please. 

Well, I don't have any regrets about learning the
siddhis, but then I don't have any regrets about
pretty much anything in my life. But I never had
any experiences with it that I would characterize
as 'good.' It was just sitting around waiting for
a weak blast of kundalini and then bouncing around
on one's butt. I never noticed any benefits what-
soever in activity. I stopped doing the siddhis 
within a year. I think I've said as much several
times here, although I don't remember whether
I participated in this recent thread at all,
because really, the siddhis were so meaningless
to me that I'm not terribly interested in discus-
sing them.

Are you sure you're not channeling Willytex
these days? He has trouble reading, too.  :-)









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread cardemaister

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 the practice if transcending was all that?  Posting on this group 
has
 made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program.

I do the siddhis only very occasionally. I feel they are way too
powerful for me, especially flying. I'm a sociophobic(?), probably
because of my genetic makeup. I think both my parents were quite
neurotic, especially my mother. My initiator told us, as I recall it,
that TM won't affect ones basic character in any way. That was 
a bit of an disappointment for me, but despite that I've been doing
basic TM quite regularly since 1976. Now, when I do flying, strange
things start often happen almost immediately, that are annoying for
someone suffering from social phobias, like people tending to come
closer to me than without flying. That makes me feel rather
uneasy. Furthermore, I tend have annoying heart arrhythmias during
the day if I do flying for more than a couple of minutes. Perhaps
it lowers my slightly high BP, and my heart reacts like that to
a pressure remarkably lower than to what it's used to.



 





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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Thanks for being real and sharing your experience man.  


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, cardemaister [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  the practice if transcending was all that?  Posting on this group 
 has
  made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program.
 
 I do the siddhis only very occasionally. I feel they are way too
 powerful for me, especially flying. I'm a sociophobic(?), probably
 because of my genetic makeup. I think both my parents were quite
 neurotic, especially my mother. My initiator told us, as I recall it,
 that TM won't affect ones basic character in any way. That was 
 a bit of an disappointment for me, but despite that I've been doing
 basic TM quite regularly since 1976. Now, when I do flying, strange
 things start often happen almost immediately, that are annoying for
 someone suffering from social phobias, like people tending to come
 closer to me than without flying. That makes me feel rather
 uneasy. Furthermore, I tend have annoying heart arrhythmias during
 the day if I do flying for more than a couple of minutes. Perhaps
 it lowers my slightly high BP, and my heart reacts like that to
 a pressure remarkably lower than to what it's used to.







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Come on Spraig, don't play with me.  
 

I was beign perfectly serious. Your response is a fine example of how someone 
can 
become a TM teacher and never get TM, apparently.

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and TM
   for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
   the experience again.  I think the experience's value is not as
   self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has to support
   it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
   out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy.  I think
   it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous probably, but
   not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who have kept
   it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really should
   have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
   long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a person might be
   even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower each decade. 
   
   As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
   overrated as a valuable experience.  
  
  Who rates it as valueable? Certainly not MMY.
  
  Relaxation seems necessary in my
   life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  The biggest
   wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems to give
   me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added benefit
   of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time of the
   program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I don't hang
   out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
   excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
   took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just never
   considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the afternoon.
There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow.  I
   have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
   have it any other way!
   
   I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it.  At the DC
   center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 10,000
   people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't remember the
   numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many people drop
   the practice if transcending was all that? 
  
  Who told you it was?
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the cornorstone of
MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his teaching.
 It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering the root
so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you can let
the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It is
capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.  

Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What are you
talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Come on Spraig, don't play with me.  
 

 I was beign perfectly serious. Your response is a fine example of
how someone can
 become a TM teacher and never get TM, apparently.

 
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it,
and TM
for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never
desired
the experience again.  I think the experience's value is not as
self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has to
support
it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would
seek
out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy. 
I think
it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous
probably, but
not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who
have kept
it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really should
have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a person
might be
even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower each
decade.
   
As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
overrated as a valuable experience.  
  
   Who rates it as valueable? Certainly not MMY.
  
   Relaxation seems necessary in my
life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  The
biggest
wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems
to give
me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added
benefit
of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time of the
program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I
don't hang
out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with
kids
excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I
think. It
took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I
just never
considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the
afternoon.
 There are too many activities that give me joy and help me
grow.  I
have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and
wouldn't
have it any other way!
   
I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it. 
At the DC
center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the
10,000
people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't remember the
numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many
people drop
the practice if transcending was all that?
  
   Who told you it was?
  
 









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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread authfriend

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the cornorstone of
 MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
teaching.
  It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the 
laws
 of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering the 
root
 so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you can 
let
 the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It is
 capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.  
 
 Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What are you
 talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.

Perhaps you meant the *process* of transcending
rather than what you wrote, the *experience* of
transcending.



 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   Come on Spraig, don't play with me.  
  
 
  I was beign perfectly serious. Your response is a fine example of
 how someone can
  become a TM teacher and never get TM, apparently.
 
  
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ 
wrote:
   
--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
   curtisdeltablues@ wrote:

 I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did 
it,
 and TM
 for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never
 desired
 the experience again.  I think the experience's value is 
not as
 self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has 
to
 support
 it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I 
would
 seek
 out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer 
buy. 
 I think
 it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous
 probably, but
 not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who
 have kept
 it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really 
should
 have produced more of the claimed benefits in people 
practicing so
 long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a 
person
 might be
 even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower 
each
 decade.

 As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is 
also very
 overrated as a valuable experience.  
   
Who rates it as valueable? Certainly not MMY.
   
Relaxation seems necessary in my
 life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  
The
 biggest
 wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems
 to give
 me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the 
added
 benefit
 of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time 
of the
 program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I
 don't hang
 out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone 
with
 kids
 excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I
 think. It
 took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I
 just never
 considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the
 afternoon.
  There are too many activities that give me joy and help me
 grow.  I
 have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and
 wouldn't
 have it any other way!

 I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it. 
 At the DC
 center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact 
the
 10,000
 people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't 
remember the
 numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many
 people drop
 the practice if transcending was all that?
   
Who told you it was?
   
  
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread off_world_beings

Thanks for the honest answer. I agree with much of what you say, 
although I am still enjoying the siddhis. For me it was/is the 
greatest experience, very powerful, but not for everyone, and i 
understand why. You are right, it does not produce miracle change in 
life, but I still think it is good overall. Thanks for that answer. 
I relate a lot to what you said, but sidhis are still the most 
amazing thing I have ever done, but that doesn't mean it is for 
everyone.

OffWorld

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and 
TM
 for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
 the experience again.  I think the experience's value is not as
 self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has to 
support
 it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
 out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy.  I 
think
 it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous probably, 
but
 not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who have 
kept
 it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really should
 have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
 long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a person 
might be
 even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower each 
decade. 
 
 As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
 overrated as a valuable experience.  Relaxation seems necessary in 
my
 life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  The 
biggest
 wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems to 
give
 me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added 
benefit
 of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time of the
 program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I don't 
hang
 out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
 excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
 took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just 
never
 considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the 
afternoon.
  There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow.  
I
 have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
 have it any other way!
 
 I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it.  At 
the DC
 center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 
10,000
 people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't remember the
 numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many people 
drop
 the practice if transcending was all that?  Posting on this group 
has
 made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program.  
Even
 that level of interaction doesn't seem to be self-evidently 
positive
 enough to keep people doing it.
 
 So we are all left with our personal choices.  People on this group
 are pretty entertaining.  Most of the people I seem to get along 
with
  best have moved on from TM.  The TM link is just a common bond so 
we
 can goof on the movement a little and remember how into we were.  
For
 the people who have continued to enjoy the practice, please don't 
take
 my words of my experience as insulting to your own.  I know how
 limited my view of what you may need in your life is.  If you enjoy
 flying, I'm glad you found something in this world to enjoy.  I 
hope
 you can see beyond the fact that I have left it behind.
 
 TM was an amazing ride, and although in a perfect world, I might 
not
 want to have hung with it so long, I value my experiences from my
 past.  I am not a spiritual person so my analysis has no bearing on
 people who continue on a path of self or God realization.  That is 
a
 goal that I understand and respect, but I know it is not for me.
 
 Thanks for asking a question that helped me reflect on this.  I 
would
 like to hear your experiences if you wouldn't mind sharing them.
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  One thing I noticed that was interesting about this thread on 
yogic 
  flying was that apart from Dave - correct me if I am wrong, as I 
  didn't read all - but all of the anti-TM'rs (apart from Vaj who 
hasn't 
  learned TM or yogic flying) said they had good experiences of 
yogic 
  flying and that the whole 'levitation' part was unimportnant.
  
  Interesting phenomena: The first time I've seen a thread here 
where 
  all the yogic flyers (wether 'for' or 'against' TMO) agree that 
it was 
  a good thing and that they would not have missed the chance to 
learn 
  it.
  
  Correct me if I am wrong please. 
  
  OffWorld
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread off_world_beings

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, TurquoiseB [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  One thing I noticed that was interesting about this thread on 
yogic 
  flying was that apart from Dave - correct me if I am wrong, as I 
  didn't read all - but all of the anti-TM'rs (apart from Vaj who 
hasn't 
  learned TM or yogic flying) said they had good experiences of 
yogic 
  flying and that the whole 'levitation' part was unimportnant.
  
  Interesting phenomena: The first time I've seen a thread here 
where 
  all the yogic flyers (wether 'for' or 'against' TMO) agree that 
it was 
  a good thing and that they would not have missed the chance to 
learn 
  it.
  
  Correct me if I am wrong please. 
 
 Well, I don't have any regrets about learning the
 siddhis, but then I don't have any regrets about
 pretty much anything in my life. But I never had
 any experiences with it that I would characterize
 as 'good.' It was just sitting around waiting for
 a weak blast of kundalini and then bouncing around
 on one's butt. I never noticed any benefits what-
 soever in activity. I stopped doing the siddhis 
 within a year. I think I've said as much several
 times here, although I don't remember whether
 I participated in this recent thread at all,
 because really, the siddhis were so meaningless
 to me that I'm not terribly interested in discus-
 sing them.
 

I guess it is not the same experience for everyone. Yogic flying was 
the most incredible bliss I have ever experienced by far, and it 
purifies the body in one sitting in such a powerful way that you 
feel you are a different body and better mind afterwards. These 
bliss and health effects spill over into daily life. You may be 
blocking the effects for yourself in some other ways, consciously or 
sub-consciously.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread off_world_beings

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Come on Spraig, don't play with me.  
  
 
 I was beign perfectly serious. Your response is a fine example of 
how someone can  become a TM teacher and never get TM, apparently.
 


It seemed like an honest answer to me. Nothing wrong with that. I 
think he will come back to it one day. It is just not for him right 
now.

OffWorld






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Thanks for being opened minded about my experiences. If the sidhis
still have value for you, more power to you.  It seems like the first
few are working for you from the quality of your post!  Enjoying the
sidhis is something I can relate to also.




--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Thanks for the honest answer. I agree with much of what you say, 
 although I am still enjoying the siddhis. For me it was/is the 
 greatest experience, very powerful, but not for everyone, and i 
 understand why. You are right, it does not produce miracle change in 
 life, but I still think it is good overall. Thanks for that answer. 
 I relate a lot to what you said, but sidhis are still the most 
 amazing thing I have ever done, but that doesn't mean it is for 
 everyone.
 
 OffWorld
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and 
 TM
  for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
  the experience again.  I think the experience's value is not as
  self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has to 
 support
  it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
  out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy.  I 
 think
  it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous probably, 
 but
  not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who have 
 kept
  it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really should
  have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
  long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a person 
 might be
  even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower each 
 decade. 
  
  As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
  overrated as a valuable experience.  Relaxation seems necessary in 
 my
  life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  The 
 biggest
  wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems to 
 give
  me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added 
 benefit
  of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time of the
  program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I don't 
 hang
  out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
  excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
  took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just 
 never
  considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the 
 afternoon.
   There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow.  
 I
  have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
  have it any other way!
  
  I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it.  At 
 the DC
  center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 
 10,000
  people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't remember the
  numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many people 
 drop
  the practice if transcending was all that?  Posting on this group 
 has
  made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program.  
 Even
  that level of interaction doesn't seem to be self-evidently 
 positive
  enough to keep people doing it.
  
  So we are all left with our personal choices.  People on this group
  are pretty entertaining.  Most of the people I seem to get along 
 with
   best have moved on from TM.  The TM link is just a common bond so 
 we
  can goof on the movement a little and remember how into we were.  
 For
  the people who have continued to enjoy the practice, please don't 
 take
  my words of my experience as insulting to your own.  I know how
  limited my view of what you may need in your life is.  If you enjoy
  flying, I'm glad you found something in this world to enjoy.  I 
 hope
  you can see beyond the fact that I have left it behind.
  
  TM was an amazing ride, and although in a perfect world, I might 
 not
  want to have hung with it so long, I value my experiences from my
  past.  I am not a spiritual person so my analysis has no bearing on
  people who continue on a path of self or God realization.  That is 
 a
  goal that I understand and respect, but I know it is not for me.
  
  Thanks for asking a question that helped me reflect on this.  I 
 would
  like to hear your experiences if you wouldn't mind sharing them.
  
  
  
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
  wrote:
  
   One thing I noticed that was interesting about this thread on 
 yogic 
   flying was that apart from Dave - correct me if I am wrong, as I 
   didn't read all - but all of the anti-TM'rs (apart from Vaj who 
 hasn't 
   learned TM or yogic flying) said they had good experiences of 
 yogic 
   flying and that the whole 'levitation' part was unimportnant.
   
   Interesting phenomena: The first time I've seen a thread here 
 where 
   all the yogic flyers (wether 'for' or

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the cornorstone of
 MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his teaching.
  It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
 of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering the root
 so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you can let
 the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It is
 capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.  
 
 Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What are you
 talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.

As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending is no more 
valueable than 
being lost in thoughts...






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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.


--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the cornorstone of
  MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his teaching.
   It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
  of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering the root
  so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you can let
  the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It is
  capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.  
  
  Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What are you
  talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.
 
 As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending is no
more valueable than 
 being lost in thoughts...







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
wrote:

 Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.

Since all experiences are of equal value, it seems odd to talk about the value 
of 
transcendence.

 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
 
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
 curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
  
   OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the cornorstone of
   MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his teaching.
It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all the laws
   of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering the root
   so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so you can let
   the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. It is
   capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold mines.  
   
   Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What are you
   talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.
  
  As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending is no
 more valueable than 
  being lost in thoughts...
 








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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread Robert Gimbel

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I enjoyed the experience of flying for the ten years I did it, and 
TM
 for 15 years.  Once I shifted my view of its value, I never desired
 the experience again.  I think the experience's value is not as
 self-evident as some claim.  Maybe the belief system has to 
support
 it. Otherwise it just seems odd, and not an experience I would seek
 out these days.  As far as it benefit, that I no longer buy.  I 
think
 it is sort of a mini epileptic fit.  Not too dangerous probably, but
 not the greatest experience ever.   I don't see people who have kept
 it up as special in any way I can detect.  By now it really should
 have produced more of the claimed benefits in people practicing so
 long.  In the old days we would joke that without TM a person might 
be
 even worse!  That claim is getting hollower and hollower each 
decade. 
 
 As far as transcending goes, I think that experience is also very
 overrated as a valuable experience.  Relaxation seems necessary in 
my
 life in much smaller doses now that I don't do a program.  The 
biggest
 wellbeing booster for me is exercise.  That experience seems to give
 me all the mental clarity I was seeking with TM with the added 
benefit
 of giving me much more energy.  All that eyes closed time of the
 program seems to sap people's energy despite the claims.  I don't 
hang
 out with anyone who needs a nap in the afternoon. (anyone with kids
 excluded!) It is just something that people get used to I think. It
 took me a few days to get over the need for program, then I just 
never
 considered the need for more rest after sleeping, or in the 
afternoon.
  There are too many activities that give me joy and help me grow.  I
 have become the busy businessman of the checking notes and wouldn't
 have it any other way!
 
 I always knew that most people drop TM after practicing it.  At the 
DC
 center we got a big wake-up call when we tried to contact the 10,000
 people who had been initiated at the center.  I don't remember the
 numbers but it shocked us at the time.  How could so many people 
drop
 the practice if transcending was all that?  Posting on this group 
has
 made me wonder how many people keep up with the sidhi program.  Even
 that level of interaction doesn't seem to be self-evidently positive
 enough to keep people doing it.
 
 So we are all left with our personal choices.  People on this group
 are pretty entertaining.  Most of the people I seem to get along 
with
  best have moved on from TM.  The TM link is just a common bond so 
we
 can goof on the movement a little and remember how into we were.  
For
 the people who have continued to enjoy the practice, please don't 
take
 my words of my experience as insulting to your own.  I know how
 limited my view of what you may need in your life is.  If you enjoy
 flying, I'm glad you found something in this world to enjoy.  I hope
 you can see beyond the fact that I have left it behind.
 
 TM was an amazing ride, and although in a perfect world, I might not
 want to have hung with it so long, I value my experiences from my
 past.  I am not a spiritual person so my analysis has no bearing on
 people who continue on a path of self or God realization.  That is a
 goal that I understand and respect, but I know it is not for me.
 
 Thanks for asking a question that helped me reflect on this.  I 
would
 like to hear your experiences if you wouldn't mind sharing them.
 
 
 
 
 
 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, off_world_beings no_reply@
 wrote:
 
  One thing I noticed that was interesting about this thread on 
yogic 
  flying was that apart from Dave - correct me if I am wrong, as I 
  didn't read all - but all of the anti-TM'rs (apart from Vaj who 
hasn't 
  learned TM or yogic flying) said they had good experiences of 
yogic 
  flying and that the whole 'levitation' part was unimportnant.
  
  Interesting phenomena: The first time I've seen a thread here 
where 
  all the yogic flyers (wether 'for' or 'against' TMO) agree that 
it was 
  a good thing and that they would not have missed the chance to 
learn 
  it.
  
  Correct me if I am wrong please. 
  
  OffWorld

All of these things are as important as you make them.
Many people are not seeking anything at all.
The younger generation, has so many distractions,
From growing up on video games, to hours on the computer, 
To I-Pods, and cell phones, there is really no room for much silence 
anymore.
And the value of Silence in our lives?
Not sure if anyone is marketing Silence these days?
How do you market Silence?

We live in a time when the busy business man is the winner.
All else are losers, defined by our culture as such.
I think anything considered 'Hippie' or from the sixties, is almost 
immediately rejected by the younger generation.

In a time, where we need more meditation than ever,
More time to reflect and have silence in our life.
The time continues to speed up toward

[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping

2006-07-23 Thread coshlnx

--- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues 
curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
 
  Right. I am familiar with the basic mechanics of TM.
 
 Since all experiences are of equal value, it seems odd to talk 
about the value of 
 transcendence.

I don't get it.  Getting attacked by killer bees would be an 
experience of less value than going to the movies and seeing a 
killer bee attack; in my book. (maybe not yours).  Using the 
word value gets us into the realm of economics, and in that 
orientation, what people value is what they say it is!...it's 
something subjective, but subject to demographic and statistical 
studies.  Thus, value is closely allied to the concept of wants and 
needs; but the boundaries between such concepts are not always clear 
cut.  In any event, the value of different experiences differ, 
judging by common sense usage; and especially the non-spiritual usage 
of most academic departments: politics, economics, sociology,
(especially the latter. Wit: the heated debates between liberals and 
conservatives on the O'Reilly show).
 Value is also an important consideration in traditional Buddhism, 
and even in Nichiren's Buddhism, which essentially states that values 
are substantially identical to wants. 

 
  
  
  --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, sparaig sparaig@ wrote:
  
   --- In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, curtisdeltablues
  curtisdeltablues@ wrote:
   
OK.  I thought you were joking.  Transcending is the 
cornorstone of
MMY's program.  It is the single most important part of his 
teaching.
 It is considered going to the home of all knowldedge and all 
the laws
of nature.  It is going to the highest first.  It is watering 
the root
so you can enjoy the fruit.  It is pulling back the bow so 
you can let
the arrow of activity fly.  It is the rest before activity. 
It is
capturing the fort so you can enjoy all the silver and gold 
mines.  

Come on Spraig help me out here.  You are a sharp guy.  What 
are you
talking about?  MMY considers transcending Valuable.
   
   As long as you are doing the technique correctly, transcending 
is no
  more valueable than 
   being lost in thoughts...
  
 







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[FairfieldLife] Re: Interesting phenomena on thread : Flying vs. Hopping