Re: New FreeBSD logo
On May 16, 2006, at 11:15 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:08 AM To: Henry Lenzi Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo On May 15, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Henry Lenzi wrote: It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. Ted says lots of things. In this case though, I am not just saying a lot of things See the following: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2005-February/ 001592. html ...Unfortunately, the cute FreeBSD daemon is sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural context. That's why The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public competition for the new logo ... That was written by Ricardo Alves dos Reis who as far as I can tell [1] does not hold any official capacity at the FreeBSD Foundation or in the groups of people (committers etc) who had/have a say. In other words, it was one outsider's personal opinion. It in now way says anything about the real reasons for the whole thing. Yes, Chad, we all know you love the new logo. Just quit rewriting history to pretend that religion didn't have anything to do with the change. Please read http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/announce.txt which is the Official rules and explanation. Nothing in there that I can find. Stop rewriting history yourself. Your post above is embarrassing as you try and claim official status for someone's (who appears to be an outsider) personal opinion. Chad Ted --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
Sorry to be jumping into this late. On 15 May 2006 at 8:57, Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: No, you get to vote on the selection of various bits of code changes. That sounds more realistic to me than assuming committers are also the sole FreeBSD esthetic committee too. But no amount of your voting is going to instantly change the recognized logo of FreeBSD from Beastie to the sex-toy. Ranting on questions has far more ability to make or break use of the sex-toy logo by the FreeBSD userbase than voting on current. I must admit that logo seemed a bit strange to me when I saw it on the website. Sorta cold and a bit too abstract for my taste. It reminds me of what Mozilla did with their dragon - removed it from the browser's splash-screen because some minority of people thought it was demonic or evil or something. So sad. I think people need to get over themselves and personally I think the beastie is nicely irreverent and has a palpable personality one can relate to, especially since you can be sure that very few gargantuan publicly-held companies would ever get away with using something similiar. I wonder if anyone has heard Kirk McKusick's input on this.. then again, perhaps he's a bit biased? :-) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, May 16, 2006 11:22 PM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: Henry Lenzi; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo On May 16, 2006, at 11:15 PM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:08 AM To: Henry Lenzi Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo On May 15, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Henry Lenzi wrote: It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. Ted says lots of things. In this case though, I am not just saying a lot of things See the following: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2005-February/ 001592. html ...Unfortunately, the cute FreeBSD daemon is sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural context. That's why The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public competition for the new logo ... That was written by Ricardo Alves dos Reis who as far as I can tell [1] does not hold any official capacity at the FreeBSD Foundation or in the groups of people (committers etc) who had/have a say. In other words, it was one outsider's personal opinion. It in now way says anything about the real reasons for the whole thing. Chad, since your going to be bullheaded (espically considering you participated in all of these threads) here's some more, from folks that I think satisfy your requirements for official capacity. These are from the threads that are still present in the archives, there is one thread titled please don't change Beastie to another crap logo such as NetBSD that had a lot of more goodies in it, but I've been unable to find it. (maybe it got stripped out from the archives, who knows?): http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=2773426+0+archive/2005/freeb sd-questions/20050213.freebsd-questions ...The leaked document in its initial form mentioned *replacing* the FreeBSD daemon. No mention of cleaning it up was made. It even included a bunch of guidelines for contest entries, including: * The logo must not exploit or offend a person's sex, race, religion,... http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=128386+0+archive/2005/freebs d-advocacy/20050213.freebsd-advocacy ...Yeah, the announcement was prematurely leaked, and was clearly not ready for the world to see yet..you'll notice that most of the BSD-related organizations have at some point opted for a non-daemon logo... http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=3155618+0+archive/2005/freeb sd-questions/20050213.freebsd-questions ... I have done maybe a dozen presentations for FreeBSD to public groups in that time... I, for one, am damn tired of explaining some stupid Unix inside-joke to people, at the same time that I'm trying to convince those same people that FreeBSD is a professional, grown-up operating system... http://docs.freebsd.org/cgi/getmsg.cgi?fetch=59378+0+archive/2005/freebsd -advocacy/20050213.freebsd-advocacy ...For entertainment value, I should scan in the anonymous letter I received from someone in Kansas a few years ago. It compared the Beastie to using Osama Bin Laden as the FreeBSD logo, and was CC'd to my company and research sponsors... Anyway, The information is out there if you care to dig for it, and I didn't even cheat by looking on the committers archives mailing list. The fact is that the religious significance of Beastie and reaction to that coloring perception of FreeBSD, was a main driving point for a lot of people to replacing Beastie as the logo, and the core group knew that if they mentioned this it would cause a huge backlash, a lot worse than what it did cause as it is, so pains were taken to strip out official mention that religion was playing a part. For anyone who really cares, a -complete- read of the major threads in questions and advocacy, on this topic, is the only way to get the clear picture. (it's not a pretty one) Interestingly, while there were as you would expect, calls in -questions to shift the thread to -advocacy based on appropriateness, there were -also- calls to shift the thread from -advocacy to elsewhere, based on appropriateness. In other words, one of the tellales in a discussion group that your pulling back the carpet on some nasty things that some folks are embarassed they are doing, is the appearance of calls to move the discussion to a different list. Ted PS I still like this one: http://calinourson.free.fr/pics/FreeBSD/powertoflame.png ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Sent: Monday, May 15, 2006 11:08 AM To: Henry Lenzi Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo On May 15, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Henry Lenzi wrote: It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. Ted says lots of things. In this case though, I am not just saying a lot of things See the following: http://lists.freebsd.org/pipermail/freebsd-advocacy/2005-February/001592. html ...Unfortunately, the cute FreeBSD daemon is sometimes treated with misunderstanding in the religious and cultural context. That's why The FreeBSD Project is announcing a public competition for the new logo ... Yes, Chad, we all know you love the new logo. Just quit rewriting history to pretend that religion didn't have anything to do with the change. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On Mon, May 15, 2006 at 06:14:23AM +0100, Gary Hayers wrote: Quite frankly it is of no importance as the community were not the ones with a say about it, the FreeBSD management were and they did. The new logo was selected using a democratic vote of people who have commit privileges to the various parts of FreeBSD. This was conducted many, many months ago. There were legal issues that needed to be resolved by the FreeBSD Foundation before the logo could be used. That work is now complete and so you get to see the new logo. Those people who want to influence decisions like the selection of a new logo really only have _one_ way to have a say. Ranting on a mailing list is *not* that way. If you contribute to FreeBSD and earn the right to a commit bit, then you get a chance to vote on who becomes a member of the core group and things like the selection of a new logo. When you refer to the FreeBSD management you are really referring to the people who have been elected as members of the core group. They work to guide the project, but when it comes to things like a new logo, that decision is made by the people who have the right to change parts of FreeBSD. So people can huff and puff and try to blow the house down in this thread, but the only thing that makes any difference is what the people who have earned a vote think. -- John Birrell ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
John Birrell wrote: Quite frankly it is of no importance as the community were not the ones with a say about it, the FreeBSD management were and they did. The new logo was selected using a democratic vote of people who have commit privileges to the various parts of FreeBSD. This was conducted many, many months ago. There were legal issues that needed to be resolved by the FreeBSD Foundation before the logo could be used. That work is now complete and so you get to see the new logo. Those people who want to influence decisions like the selection of a new logo really only have _one_ way to have a say. Ranting on a mailing list is *not* that way. If you contribute to FreeBSD and earn the right to a commit bit, then you get a chance to vote on who becomes a member of the core group and things like the selection of a new logo. When you refer to the FreeBSD management you are really referring to the people who have been elected as members of the core group. They work to guide the project, but when it comes to things like a new logo, that decision is made by the people who have the right to change parts of FreeBSD. So people can huff and puff and try to blow the house down in this thread, but the only thing that makes any difference is what the people who have earned a vote think. Perfect, couldn't agree more. Gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hayers Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 10:14 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: No, the majority of people who have posted do not like it, thats not the whole community. Maybe you should do your research better. It's probably a revelation to you but you do not have to poll the entire community to find out if the majority of them don't like something. This is called sampling The people who have posted are a sample of the community. The vast majority of this sample don't like it. Thus the majority of the community doesen't like it. (those who hold opinions one way or another, that is, and the opinion holders are the only ones that matter in this particular issue) Ted I am well aware of what sampling means, your argument if flawed, you may have the sample of the community that does not like it, the people who do like it may not find it important enough to post about. So then as others have said, let's open it to a vote of the community as to whether or not it needed to be changed in the first place. That wasn't done because the people pushing this knew they would lose. Quite frankly it is of no importance as the community were not the ones with a say about it, the FreeBSD management were and they did. That is nothing more than the might-makes-right argument and it is as flawed here as it ever was. FreeBSD isn't a commercial product in case you missed it, it's the sum total of everyone who contributes to it and supports it. The only part of FreeBSD that is under any kind of management is the source repository itself and website, and the source code is much like the tip of the iceberg, it is only the obvious embodiment of this contribution. Without the many users of that source, FreeBSD is nothing. And you wouldn't have those users without the gargantum amount of advocacy and support that goes on with that source. If the FreeBSD management was soley responsible for all tech support then FreeBSD would not work. If that management was solely responsible for all promotion and all expenditures on promoting FreeBSD they would go bankrupt in seconds. Who are you to denegrate the emormous amount of invisible work that occurs to keep FreeBSD viable, with your ignorant comment the community were not the ones with a say about it Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of John Birrell Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 11:29 PM To: Gary Hayers Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo Those people who want to influence decisions like the selection of a new logo really only have _one_ way to have a say. Ranting on a mailing list is *not* that way. Wrong. I think you have this idea that the committers think that all they have to do is wave their wands and every FreeBSD user will instantly march in lockstep to what they want. This is only true for the FreeBSD source code. If the committers in FreeBSD change the source to FreeBSD then the users all pretty much have little choice but to accept it. Oh sure they can patch the system if they want, but the changes are usually good so why would they? And when the changes are bad and break things, then if a proper PR is filed that documents everything, then the committers change it back, or fix the bug. But not so with the logo change. Logos only have value when they are used. Yes the committers can delete Beastie from FreeBSD's main website and replace it with the sex toy - although in view of the multiple and varied statements by many committers that the sex toy logo is merely an addition and not displacing Beastie I don't see how they will be able to do this in the future without losing a lot of public face for going back on their promises. But the committers have zero control over what the users use for their preferred logo. Most people are going to use the logo they feel best represents FreeBSD, only a few misguided people will just blindly use the logo that the committers tell them to use. Since most of the userbase preferrs Beastie they will continue to use Beastie. The people making castings of Beastie aren't going to see sales of a casting of the sex toy displace Beaste, if they even offer it, the people making stuffed Beasties aren't going to see sales of a stuffed sex toy outselling Beastie, etc. etc. etc. The -only- way the committers can get a lot of people to use the new logo is to put out a new logo that is better than Beastie. If you contribute to FreeBSD and earn the right to a commit bit, then you get a chance to vote on who becomes a member of the core group and things like the selection of a new logo. No, you get to vote on the selection of various bits of code changes. But no amount of your voting is going to instantly change the recognized logo of FreeBSD from Beastie to the sex-toy. Ranting on questions has far more ability to make or break use of the sex-toy logo by the FreeBSD userbase than voting on current. So people can huff and puff and try to blow the house down in this thread, but the only thing that makes any difference is what the people who have earned a vote think. No, the only thing that makes a difference when it comes to the logo is what the people choose to use who are normally using the FreeBSD logo in their work every day. And those folks are what you would term the sales and marketing arm of FreeBSD, not the developers. And they are paying attention to what people are saying about the new sex-toy logo. The sex-toy logo has very little recognition and association with FreeBSD. The few places that you might -want- to use it is someplace like the cover of a magazine, because if you use a recognized logo like Beastie then prospective purchasers of that magazine are going to think ho hum another article about FreeBSD and pass it by, whereas since they don't know what the sex-toy represents, they might pick up the mag and read it. But, in that case your selling a magazine, not an operating system. In instances like the cover of a CD or a business card or a website where your wanting to use a very instantly recognizable logo denoting FreeBSD, your going to use Beastie. And this reason is what is the reason for most of the areas that have a need for a FreeBSD logo. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On May 15, 2006, at 11:57 AM, Henry Lenzi wrote: It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. Ted says lots of things. --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
Henry Lenzi wrote: It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted You're kidding, right? Say you're kidding. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] If only he was. I say don't be ashamed of Beastie, and if anyone asks, tell them Hey, it's our logo. Deal with that how you want to. If anyone still keeps asking, tell them they are ignorant and kick them out. Should shut up the rest. Altough I have been known for being rather blunt with my techniques ... Blunt but effective though ;) ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
BTW, I entirely apologize for singling out a religious group. Perhaps I've should've phrased it as I hope this didn't have to do with any concern or discomfort related to religious groups. Maybe I'm reading much too many polls... Anyways, I still find it hard to believe it...Although I mentioned this because I sem to remember having read something a long time ago about a FreeBSD developer that ran into some trouble because of the Devil t-shirt. So, you know, I apologize but try to see where I was coming from, if I offended anyone. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On Saturday 13 May 2006 21:57, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Henry Lenzi Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo I really hope the rationale wasn't something like evangelical christians having problem with the little red devil. It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted ___ That's ironic to me because what I perceive with the 3d glass look is that the devil image has been given a seriousness whereas Beastie said cute and mischievous. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On Sat, 13 May 2006, Varuna wrote: On Saturday 13 May 2006 21:57, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Henry Lenzi Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo I really hope the rationale wasn't something like evangelical christians having problem with the little red devil. It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted ___ That's ironic to me because what I perceive with the 3d glass look is that the devil image has been given a seriousness whereas Beastie said cute and mischievous. I have to admit, when I first saw the new logo, it kinda lost me as to why we were changing from something 'cute' to something 'sterile' :( To me, Beastie will always == FreeBSD, and even though there is a new Official Logo, I'll stick with proudly displaying Beastie on my web site *shrug* Beastie will only ever die if ppl stop displaying him ... Marc G. Fournier Hub.Org Networking Services (http://www.hub.org) Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo!: yscrappy ICQ: 7615664 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Varuna Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 11:13 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Henry Lenzi; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo That's ironic to me because what I perceive with the 3d glass look is that the devil image has been given a seriousness whereas Beastie said cute and mischievous. But to ignoramusus the new logo doesen't look like a devil image, it looks like a sex toy. Thus they don't view it as a serious devil, just a serious sex toy, and apparently these days sex toys are OK but if you make fun of The Prince of Darkness by making a cute little logo of him, your going to Hell. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
But to ignoramusus the new logo doesen't look like a devil image, it looks like a sex toy. It similarly to not to horns of a daemon, but female breasts. Bad idea. -- Andrew Wingborn http://andr.ru/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fabian Keil Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Axel S. Gruner Am Mittwoch, den 10.05.2006, 02:05 -0700 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt: My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. At LinuxTag 2006 in Wiesbaden we had prepared a lot of CDs with the new Logo (what you call a sex toy?). We also used the new logo as a flag on our booth. You will find a few pictures here: http://www.encephalon.de/photo/bsd_bilder/lt2006/index.html So, the long long time was a really short time ;-). I think you missed the part of the post where I said: people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, The context of the post made it pretty clear I was talking about commercial CD's that are sold, not given away. Issue 3/2006 of the German magazine freeX has the new logo on its cover, on the included disc and it appears several times in the articles. http://www.cul.de/images/freex32006cg.jpg Actually this isn't the logo, the nipples on it aren't recessed, but in any case this is really a great example of why this logo does nothing to help the FreeBSD project. What about the logo makes you think of an operating system? And what about this cover is at all compelling to induce someone to pick up the magazine and buy it? I wasn't arguing for or against the new logo. I just pointed out that it already is in commercial use. Fabian -- http://www.fabiankeil.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: New FreeBSD logo
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: The community has already spoken, go back and look at all the posts on this and the other lists on the logo, the majority of them don't like it. Ted No, the majority of people who have posted do not like it, thats not the whole community. Maybe you should do your research better. Gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
El día Sunday, May 14, 2006 a las 04:14:17PM +0100, Gary Hayers escribió: Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: The community has already spoken, go back and look at all the posts on this and the other lists on the logo, the majority of them don't like it. Ted No, the majority of people who have posted do not like it, thats not the whole community. Maybe you should do your research better. I don't like the new logo either, but this is a personal opinion only. I ask hereby the people who are in charge for such decisions to make a web page for a poll of the community. Thx. matthias -- Matthias Apitz Manager Technical Support - OCLC PICA GmbH Gruenwalder Weg 28g - 82041 Oberhaching - Germany t +49-89-61308 351 - f +49-89-61308 399 - m +49-170-4527211 e [EMAIL PROTECTED] - w http://www.oclcpica.org/ http://guru.UnixLand.de/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On Sun, 14 May 2006 17:34:33 +0200 Matthias Apitz wrote: I don't like the new logo either, but this is a personal opinion only. Agreed. I ask hereby the people who are in charge for such decisions to make a web page for a poll of the community. Thx. me too. -- Best regards, Cemasko Viktor. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
(yes...adding to the fire... oh well) On Sat, 13 May 2006 21:38:56 -0700 Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: this is really a great example of why this logo does nothing to help the FreeBSD project. probably true. What about the logo makes you think of an operating system? well...what in a penguin makes you think of an Open Source derivative of Unix which was started in Finland? Of all the reasons i've heard for not liking the logo this is probably the thinnest one. I don't particularly like the logo - not because it, apparently, looks like a sex-toy (come-ON! anything can be thought to look like 'something else' by *someone* , so i wont even go there) , but because I think I think a much better logo can be made, which reflects in some way BSD's history, or maybe not - i don't care, Chuck is still the mascot and it's what I'll keep using until a good logo comes about.And one that can be easily incorporated into b/w, lesser colours prints, smaller sizes,etc. And yes, Ted, i agree with you that this whole logo-finding-excercise seems a waste of time due to most of the reasons you have explained (so many times). And what about this cover is at all compelling to induce someone to pick up the magazine and buy it? i dont see how this has anything to do with the log anyway... no need to flame left right and center... ( YES, having had the devil in the cover would have conveyed the idea of BSD to more people for sure ... but in which other way than putting the logo out there can it be made recognisable?) Regards, Beto ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Gary Hayers Sent: Sunday, May 14, 2006 8:14 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: The community has already spoken, go back and look at all the posts on this and the other lists on the logo, the majority of them don't like it. Ted No, the majority of people who have posted do not like it, thats not the whole community. Maybe you should do your research better. It's probably a revelation to you but you do not have to poll the entire community to find out if the majority of them don't like something. This is called sampling The people who have posted are a sample of the community. The vast majority of this sample don't like it. Thus the majority of the community doesen't like it. (those who hold opinions one way or another, that is, and the opinion holders are the only ones that matter in this particular issue) Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: No, the majority of people who have posted do not like it, thats not the whole community. Maybe you should do your research better. It's probably a revelation to you but you do not have to poll the entire community to find out if the majority of them don't like something. This is called sampling The people who have posted are a sample of the community. The vast majority of this sample don't like it. Thus the majority of the community doesen't like it. (those who hold opinions one way or another, that is, and the opinion holders are the only ones that matter in this particular issue) Ted I am well aware of what sampling means, your argument if flawed, you may have the sample of the community that does not like it, the people who do like it may not find it important enough to post about. Quite frankly it is of no importance as the community were not the ones with a say about it, the FreeBSD management were and they did. Gary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Stanford Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo Why, oh why, would you post this? So help me to understand...The FreeBSD Project takes great effort in not only producing a truly _great_ operating system, trademarked as being fast, robust, stable and secure, provides it to the world for _free_, but also takes on the additional chore of attempting to promote its growth in the corporate market by introducing a new logo...and then some, all for the community. And your repayment is to aid in these, now, endless rants of verbal bashing of the Project's logo, which had an obvious goal of gaining wider popularity among busnesses for the purposes of making it bigger and better for, yes, _you_ and every other one of its users. Your missing something - they didn't ask all us users if we wanted a new logo or not. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, and maybe I'm solo dangling out there on it, but I feel a need to say something in defense. They spent they wasted much valued donation money for the logo and in legal fees, I'm sure, to obtain it, so I would assume (and hope) it's here to stay. Unlikely. Most corporate logos change every 10-20 years or so. Some also have a raft of logos. For example Chrysler used to use the medallion for it's logo. Then they switched to the pentagram. Now they are back to the medallion and it's been redone.ATT has also changed logos, they used to use the bell then the Death Star, now they are using a modifed Death Star. Fads and fashions in logos come and go. The current FreBSD sex toy logo is very much a current fashion, as abstract logos like that are all the rage now. But it's just going to get dated all the faster for that. Furthermore, by continuing to post threads like this you (and others) are hardly contributing to the Project (or this list) and, in fact, are doing the exact opposite - you are attempting to destroy the new logo's image by imaturely calling it a sex toy and in turn are slowly taking away from those precious dollars put into aquiring it. Why throw more good money after bad? Maybe it's not the greatest logo, but, regardless, the logo doesn't affect the code. Try to keep that in mind. FreeBSD is a gift. And anyone who doesn't see that should take another look at Microsoft's pricing options for a simple Home edition of XP (now $99, five years after its initial release). Please do the community a favor: Just say thanks and move along. The community doesen't want the new logo and the majority of the community prefers Beastie over the sex-toy. **Of course, this was not aimed at the general community, but more specifically at the folks wasting everyone's inbox space the past few days with this nonsense.** like yourself? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: Greg Barniskis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 7:36 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: cpghost; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: I take affront to such answers because of the simple fact that it's obvious that your perfectly valid answer isn't a real answer. A real answer would be something that would get rid of this continual resurgence of this discussion. Thus the suggestion that folks pursue it in a forum where PR might actually be germane, and in a way that might actually bear results. But that isn't a real answer since the people that put in the new logo don't want to change things no matter how many people scream about it. As long as the new logo is in place and it is as bad as it is, we are going to see this erupt here periodically. Why? Because as new people come in and start using questions@ they are going to comment about it and the whole argument is going to start over again. If barking about it on a different forum would actually make a difference you would see people doing it on that forum. But it won't, and we all know it. This is exactly like the motorcycle helmet law arguments. The slight majority of motorcycle riders are opposed to helmet laws, why? Because too large a percentage of riders are flipping idiots and the rest of the anti-helmet-law percentage of riders are stuck in some born-to-be-wild fantasy about how they aren't opposed to helmets, but people should have a 'choice'. But it's apparent to the rest of the general population that since too many riders are flipping idiots, we have to mandate helmet laws. So we do, and that has become a sore point on online motorcycle forums and you can expect to see periodic eruptions of the argument on those forums, basically forever. Despite what 24-hour cable news channels might like to have us believe, % self-selected email senders % actually holding opinions. Asserting that these are valid statistics is nonsense. Which is why I said based on responses I assume people reading that would be intelligent enough to understand self-selected results. But not all self-selected results are viewed as bullcrap. Consumer Reports rakes in millions if not hundreds of millions of bucks and it's auto ratings are completely self-selected, and is highly respected by many people. Are you saying that Consumer Reports auto ratings are nonsense? ;-) Like many folks who really don't care about the logo all that much one way or the other, I simply won't be reading or posting on this subject any more (making any future post counts that much less valid as statistics). Since you don't have an opinion one way or another on the new logo vs the old logo, you really shouldn't have posted to this thread in the first place. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
On 5/13/06, Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of David Stanford Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 5:32 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo Why, oh why, would you post this? So help me to understand...The FreeBSD Project takes great effort in not only producing a truly _great_ operating system, trademarked as being fast, robust, stable and secure, provides it to the world for _free_, but also takes on the additional chore of attempting to promote its growth in the corporate market by introducing a new logo...and then some, all for the community. And your repayment is to aid in these, now, endless rants of verbal bashing of the Project's logo, which had an obvious goal of gaining wider popularity among busnesses for the purposes of making it bigger and better for, yes, _you_ and every other one of its users. Your missing something - they didn't ask all us users if we wanted a new logo or not. I wasn't aware they had to (?). Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, and maybe I'm solo dangling out there on it, but I feel a need to say something in defense. They spent they wasted IYOO much valued donation money for the logo and in legal fees, I'm sure, to obtain it, so I would assume (and hope) it's here to stay. Unlikely. Most corporate logos change every 10-20 years or so. Some also have a raft of logos. For example Chrysler used to use the medallion for it's logo. Then they switched to the pentagram. Now they are back to the medallion and it's been redone.ATT has also changed logos, they used to use the bell then the Death Star, now they are using a modifed Death Star. Fads and fashions in logos come and go. The current FreBSD sex toy logo is very much a current fashion, as abstract logos like that are all the rage now. But it's just going to get dated all the faster for that. You have entirely too much time on your hands. But my statement meant that I hoped the Project isn't swayed out of using the logo because of childish posts such as these. Furthermore, by continuing to post threads like this you (and others) are hardly contributing to the Project (or this list) and, in fact, are doing the exact opposite - you are attempting to destroy the new logo's image by imaturely calling it a sex toy and in turn are slowly taking away from those precious dollars put into aquiring it. Why throw more good money after bad? Not sure I know what this means. However, I would love to hear how this, among your *many* other posts, has contributed to this list. Maybe it's not the greatest logo, but, regardless, the logo doesn't affect the code. Try to keep that in mind. FreeBSD is a gift. And anyone who doesn't see that should take another look at Microsoft's pricing options for a simple Home edition of XP (now $99, five years after its initial release). Please do the community a favor: Just say thanks and move along. The community doesen't want the new logo and the majority of the community prefers Beastie over the sex-toy. You speak for the community? **Of course, this was not aimed at the general community, but more specifically at the folks wasting everyone's inbox space the past few days with this nonsense.** like yourself? Agreed, and this will be my last post on the subject - though, I'm sure it won't be yours... Ted -David ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
The community doesen't want the new logo and the majority of the community prefers Beastie over the sex-toy. Not that I want to upset anything, but I thought Beastie was the logo. Where might a see a copy of the sex-toy? Is it that ugly sphere with the 2 cones for ears? ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
you are attempting to destroy the new logo's image by imaturely calling it a sex toy and in turn are slowly taking away from those precious dollars put into aquiring it. I'm sorry to say, but it was a bad choice. The little devil has been with us for a long time. Apple has an apple, Windows has a window, Linux has a penguin, we have an abstract red thing no one can describe. When they do, they say things like tits or sex toy. It is too abstract. You want a logo people can easily describe: dialogue - Well, I use the FreeBSD oerating system. - I've heard of it...Is it the one with the little red devil? - Yeah, that's the one /dialogue Don't call people immature because they have a different opinion. I doubt the new logo would last an hour in a advertising firm's brainstorming session. I really hope the rationale wasn't something like evangelical christians having problem with the little red devil. And don't say people are being destructive when they simply are questioning what some, like me, seem to think was a wrong branding strategy, if you will (although some will not articulate it like that). Were it not important, we would have white simple HTML pages on www.freebsd.org. Granted, it's not terribly important, but like any thing that's out there, people will comment. This being a free project, people feel entitled to comment on the project's list. Rightly so. My 2 cents, Henry Lenzi ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 09:59:59AM -0400, fbsd wrote: The point being it was not announced on the questions list. Why should it be? This is not the place for announcments and never has been. This list is for asking questions about FreeBSD and answering those questions. Announcments can be expected to appear on the [EMAIL PROTECTED] list, which is exactly where the logo contest was announced. There are several other lists hosted at freebsd.org. If you think all important discussions happen on questions@ then you are not only badly mistaken, but will also miss most discussions. The point being the logo affects all the users just not the core committers. Only if they choose to let it do so. Quite trying to make a non-subject out of something that effects us all. The official logo represents all of us users to the world as a whole. No, the logo is supposed to represent FreeBSD, not the users thereof. Cant you get that through your collectives heads. Can't you learn to spell correctly or to use correct punctuation? How dare you be little this subject. Very easily. It is not a subject of much importance. Maybe you are to close to the internal FreeBSD business to be able to see the turn meaning of what changing the logo means to the users. I suspect that the correct answer of what the logo means to most users is 'Very little'. The is how much the new logo (or the old image of Beastie for that matter) affects me anyway. Maybe now is the time to ask the list if that want to vote on keeping the new logo? Or on if a new logo is wanted at all? What makes you think that this list (or any other public list for that matter) has a vote on the question? FreeBSD is not a democracy. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Beech Rintoul; Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list. People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. It was clearly announced with dates and how to make submissions and all and then the closure of the submissions was announced. There was a lot of griping on the list about why bother and such, but not much real objection until the robo-beastie - or would it be space-beastie - was chosen. Though I am not fond of the new thing, it is not because the process of acquiring it was not announced. I do think there was a failure to get better input on the candidates after submissions were made. The process, or lack thereof, of selecting was rather lame. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. They were not left out, except by their own choice of not making any submission. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how putting it on the official website removing the beastie logo. I for one do not see any need to change the logo at all. It's just as professional as the penguin. I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. Nope, it was well publicized. That also goes for the formation of the new legal FreeBSD foundation. Not a word of it happening on this list until it was a done deal. You can see from this thread just how big a stink this is making. Many words were posted. Lets point the finger at the real reason for the new logo. As part of the new legal FreeBSD foundation, the people who set it up though it's better to own the complete legal rights to the logo. The beastie logo legal rights is owned by an individual. So being pressed for time they choose to keep it off the questions list and pushed it through selecting what ever logo they had just to meet the filing dead line for the new legal FreeBSD foundation formation. Maybe, who knows. For those of you who think this subject is flame bait, YOU ARE WHY THIS NEW LOGO IDEA WAS EVEN ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sham on you, shut your pie hole. That was unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion. I want to know the email addresses of the people in control of the new foundation and everyone on this list who does not like the new logo and/or the way in which it was forced upon us should email them to voice our dissatisfaction directly to them. Because its obvious posting on this list has no effect or value in determining what happens to the legal FreeBSD organization and thus the logo used to represent us
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 09:59:59AM -0400, fbsd wrote: The point being it was not announced on the questions list. Oh, where would an announcement go... like, the announcement mailinglist? Date: Wed, 23 Feb 2005 08:26:38 +0900 From: Jun Kuriyama [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [FreeBSD-Announce] FreeBSD logo design competition [ ... ] Date: Mon, 31 Oct 2005 22:47:00 +0900 From: Jun Kuriyama [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: freebsd-announce@FreeBSD.org Subject: [FreeBSD-Announce] New Logo Quite trying to make a non-subject out of something that effects us all. Yes, it affects us al. And yes, we all had our chance of giving input while this was still open for discussion. -- Riemer PalstraAmsterdam, The Netherlands [EMAIL PROTECTED]http://www.palstra.com/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Fabian Keil Sent: Thursday, May 11, 2006 3:06 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Axel S. Gruner Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:46 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: New FreeBSD Logo Am Mittwoch, den 10.05.2006, 02:05 -0700 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt: My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. At LinuxTag 2006 in Wiesbaden we had prepared a lot of CDs with the new Logo (what you call a sex toy?). We also used the new logo as a flag on our booth. You will find a few pictures here: http://www.encephalon.de/photo/bsd_bilder/lt2006/index.html So, the long long time was a really short time ;-). I think you missed the part of the post where I said: people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, The context of the post made it pretty clear I was talking about commercial CD's that are sold, not given away. Issue 3/2006 of the German magazine freeX has the new logo on its cover, on the included disc and it appears several times in the articles. http://www.cul.de/images/freex32006cg.jpg Actually this isn't the logo, the nipples on it aren't recessed, but in any case this is really a great example of why this logo does nothing to help the FreeBSD project. What about the logo makes you think of an operating system? And what about this cover is at all compelling to induce someone to pick up the magazine and buy it? Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: David Stanford [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 8:11 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo On 5/13/06, Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your missing something - they didn't ask all us users if we wanted a new logo or not. I wasn't aware they had to (?). I wasn't aware we had to praise and thank them for something we didn't want. my statement meant that I hoped the Project isn't swayed out of using the logo because of childish posts such as these. They put the new logo in over lots of objections so I doubt that childish posts will make any difference. I would love to hear how this, among your *many* other posts, has contributed to this list. Sure, as soon as you say how your post chastising the people that think the new logo looks like a sex toy has made a contribution to the list. The community doesen't want the new logo and the majority of the community prefers Beastie over the sex-toy. You speak for the community? The community has already spoken, go back and look at all the posts on this and the other lists on the logo, the majority of them don't like it. You probably should have done this research before posting. Agreed, and this will be my last post on the subject Good, we don't need more posting on this topic from people who haven't bothered to read the overwhelming posts against the new logo. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Henry Lenzi Sent: Saturday, May 13, 2006 9:04 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New FreeBSD logo I really hope the rationale wasn't something like evangelical christians having problem with the little red devil. It was, I am sorry to say. The core developer that pushed for all this said he was tired of when presenting FreeBSD to have to field a bunch of questions by people hung up over the devil image, it distracted from the presentation of the operating system's features. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Axel S. Gruner Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:46 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: New FreeBSD Logo Am Mittwoch, den 10.05.2006, 02:05 -0700 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt: My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. At LinuxTag 2006 in Wiesbaden we had prepared a lot of CDs with the new Logo (what you call a sex toy?). We also used the new logo as a flag on our booth. You will find a few pictures here: http://www.encephalon.de/photo/bsd_bilder/lt2006/index.html So, the long long time was a really short time ;-). I think you missed the part of the post where I said: people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, The context of the post made it pretty clear I was talking about commercial CD's that are sold, not given away. But I suppose that interpreting context is too advanced a task to ask of some people. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of DAve Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 7:15 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo To be blunt about it, you and everyone else had their chance. My wife, a designer, knew FreeBSD had a logo contest and she wouldn't know FreeBSD from a martian if it were not for my T-shirt. Anyone could have contributed. But like beta testing, most simply ignored the request to participate, preferring to wait until someone else did the hard work and made the tough decisions, then chose to bitch when the result was not want they wanted. It's apathy. Yea, I'm more than annoyed and this has been a long time coming. Dave, This isn't true, there were a lot of submissions for the logo contest. How many people actually keep a development server running just to help open source developers test patches or updates, even when those patches and updates do not affect them? I do, and I used it to produce a patch to the bge driver a few weeks ago to stop panics on the HP DL320 G4. The patch was submitted to the PR database per instructions. And guess what - that patch hasn't been applied. Not only that, but the developer assigned to the driver hasn't even posted a reason why he DOESEN'T want to apply it. If you want to get pissed off about apathy, please get pissed off about stuff like that. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Greg Barniskis Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:03 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo The logo issue is a horse that has been solidly beaten to death, raised as a zombie, chased with torches and pitchforks, burnt to crispiness, buried and then (surprise!) brought to life again this week for another 1,001 rounds of beating and flaming. Tiresome, really. No one is belittling the subject, only pointing out that it's both OT and done with. The appearance of the logo on the Web site is not a beginning, it's a finality. If you want to hack and burn the undead, go play Oblivion. ;) Greg, Doesen't it occur to you that the fact that this horse keeps getting resurrected indicates the new logo was a bad idea and needs to go away? When Beastie was the logo, we didn't see arguments over the logo erupt every 6 months or so in the questions mailing list. The mark of a fool is that he cannot learn from his mistakes. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: Ceri Davies [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 10:31 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt; Jonathan Horne; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo On 10/5/06 09:18, Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Someone already posted a professional analysis. The summary was that the new logo was amateurish with some serious flaws. Amateurish because a ball is about the easiest thing you can produce in Photoshop and very unoriginal. Serious flaws because due to all the shading this logo is impossible to accurately reproduce on small items like business cards, and on larger items the shading makes it very expensive to reproduce due to the number of colors used. In fact, there are reduced colour versions for exactly that reason. Since you didn't bother to look for them, I guess this isn't the real issue for you, though. I was merely relating what the summary was. But, I think you fail to understand the point - the summary said that the shading is impossible to reproduce accurately on small items, a reduced color image simply is an official statement of yeah, we know it's flawed in that it cannot be accurately reduced, so here's a substitute It is like you got a car that is leaking oil at a rate of a quart a week and someone's fix for it is to give you a coupon for 4 free cases of oil. I guess that's technically a fix, hope your rod bearings stand up to it, though. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Greg Barniskis Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:07 AM To: cpghost Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo These are indeed all perfectly valid questions. What I was trying to express is that the askers really don't seem to be accepting (or even seeing) the perfectly valid answers: * See the archives where this was beaten to death multiple times. * The best place to pursue such matters is in those forums chartered for PR and general chatter. * Read [EMAIL PROTECTED] To those taking affront at such answers, no one is saying oh, fork you! in some intentionally rude or belittling way (at least, I'm not), they're saying forking (process-wise) to the appropriate forum is the logical thing to do. I take affront to such answers because of the simple fact that it's obvious that your perfectly valid answer isn't a real answer. A real answer would be something that would get rid of this continual resurgence of this discussion. Based on responses I'd estimate about 60% of FBSD users didn't want the logo changed before the contest. Based on responses post-contest results, I think about 90% of users hate the new logo. Now, the folks that didn't want the logo changed, well you can assume most of them aren't going to like the new logo. But it's pretty clear that quite a large number of the lets change the logo proponents don't like what they got. Thus, the alleged problem of Beastie being used as the logo, wasn't solved. No amount of referring people to other lists is going to satify anyone - because it's still a problem. When FreeBSD changed to CAM and broke support for the Adaptec 1520 SCSI card, tons of people complained on this forum, and many other in-appropriate forums. This continued despite repeated statements from the developers in charge of such things that the Adaptec 1520 chipset is terrible, find another one, etc. etc. Finally someone wrote the driver and the complaints went away - because the real answer had happened. If core simply cannot tolerate Beastie as the logo, so they simply have to have something else, then the only real answer is to ditch the sex toy and draw another new logo to replace it. Hell, commercial companies do this all the time. That would be the logical response. But, core won't do it because egos are involved here, and to do this would be an open admission that they fucked up. Seems to be that the core developers have no problem admitting when they have fucked up some technical decision about how FreeBSD is structured internally. But, when it comes to something like a poor result of a silly contest, they are unable to grok that. Very very strange. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Thursday 11 May 2006 00:10, you wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Greg Barniskis Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 11:07 AM To: cpghost Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo These are indeed all perfectly valid questions. What I was trying to express is that the askers really don't seem to be accepting (or even seeing) the perfectly valid answers: * See the archives where this was beaten to death multiple times. * The best place to pursue such matters is in those forums chartered for PR and general chatter. * Read [EMAIL PROTECTED] To those taking affront at such answers, no one is saying oh, fork you! in some intentionally rude or belittling way (at least, I'm not), they're saying forking (process-wise) to the appropriate forum is the logical thing to do. I take affront to such answers because of the simple fact that it's obvious that your perfectly valid answer isn't a real answer. A real answer would be something that would get rid of this continual resurgence of this discussion. Based on responses I'd estimate about 60% of FBSD users didn't want the logo changed before the contest. Based on responses post-contest results, I think about 90% of users hate the new logo. Now, the folks that didn't want the logo changed, well you can assume most of them aren't going to like the new logo. But it's pretty clear that quite a large number of the lets change the logo proponents don't like what they got. Thus, the alleged problem of Beastie being used as the logo, wasn't solved. No amount of referring people to other lists is going to satify anyone - because it's still a problem. When FreeBSD changed to CAM and broke support for the Adaptec 1520 SCSI card, tons of people complained on this forum, and many other in-appropriate forums. This continued despite repeated statements from the developers in charge of such things that the Adaptec 1520 chipset is terrible, find another one, etc. etc. Finally someone wrote the driver and the complaints went away - because the real answer had happened. If core simply cannot tolerate Beastie as the logo, so they simply have to have something else, then the only real answer is to ditch the sex toy and draw another new logo to replace it. Hell, commercial companies do this all the time. That would be the logical response. But, core won't do it because egos are involved here, and to do this would be an open admission that they fucked up. Seems to be that the core developers have no problem admitting when they have fucked up some technical decision about how FreeBSD is structured internally. But, when it comes to something like a poor result of a silly contest, they are unable to grok that. Very very strange. Ted You were right about the printing. I had to get something from the printer this afternoon, so I printed out a copy of the new logo and took it with me. I ask them how much for 1K CD case inserts. They said it would have to be done 4 color and they would be .30 - .40 ea with setup. And that's not even including the CD labels themselves. I've had full color brochures printed for not much more than that. I didn't even bother asking about server stickers. Beech -- --- Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com --- pgp5CXe6RQm0D.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Axel S. Gruner Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 2:46 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: RE: New FreeBSD Logo Am Mittwoch, den 10.05.2006, 02:05 -0700 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt: My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. At LinuxTag 2006 in Wiesbaden we had prepared a lot of CDs with the new Logo (what you call a sex toy?). We also used the new logo as a flag on our booth. You will find a few pictures here: http://www.encephalon.de/photo/bsd_bilder/lt2006/index.html So, the long long time was a really short time ;-). I think you missed the part of the post where I said: people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, The context of the post made it pretty clear I was talking about commercial CD's that are sold, not given away. Issue 3/2006 of the German magazine freeX has the new logo on its cover, on the included disc and it appears several times in the articles. http://www.cul.de/images/freex32006cg.jpg Fabian -- http://www.fabiankeil.de/ signature.asc Description: PGP signature
New FreeBSD logo
Oh my gosh, I thought people were exagerating about the sextoy logo, but after some late night research i found this, and was frankly disgusted. http://www.toy-company.co.uk/index.html?target=p_1876.htmllang=en-gb It's like Linux having a midget in a PVC Nun outfit and calling him Fux the Penguin. Best of luck, reflex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD logo
Why, oh why, would you post this? So help me to understand...The FreeBSD Project takes great effort in not only producing a truly _great_ operating system, trademarked as being fast, robust, stable and secure, provides it to the world for _free_, but also takes on the additional chore of attempting to promote its growth in the corporate market by introducing a new logo...and then some, all for the community. And your repayment is to aid in these, now, endless rants of verbal bashing of the Project's logo, which had an obvious goal of gaining wider popularity among busnesses for the purposes of making it bigger and better for, yes, _you_ and every other one of its users. Maybe I'm going out on a limb here, and maybe I'm solo dangling out there on it, but I feel a need to say something in defense. They spent much valued donation money for the logo and in legal fees, I'm sure, to obtain it, so I would assume (and hope) it's here to stay. Furthermore, by continuing to post threads like this you (and others) are hardly contributing to the Project (or this list) and, in fact, are doing the exact opposite - you are attempting to destroy the new logo's image by imaturely calling it a sex toy and in turn are slowly taking away from those precious dollars put into aquiring it. Maybe it's not the greatest logo, but, regardless, the logo doesn't affect the code. Try to keep that in mind. FreeBSD is a gift. And anyone who doesn't see that should take another look at Microsoft's pricing options for a simple Home edition of XP (now $99, five years after its initial release). Please do the community a favor: Just say thanks and move along. **Of course, this was not aimed at the general community, but more specifically at the folks wasting everyone's inbox space the past few days with this nonsense.** -David On 5/11/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Oh my gosh, I thought people were exagerating about the sextoy logo, but after some late night research i found this, and was frankly disgusted. http://www.toy-company.co.uk/index.html?target=p_1876.htmllang=en-gb It's like Linux having a midget in a PVC Nun outfit and calling him Fux the Penguin. Best of luck, reflex ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/05/2006 11:42:17: hi, On 5/9/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then take this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just flame bait here. I don't want a chat, I want to know where I can find out how we ended up with such a terrible logo. It seems people think it's a big joke? The new logo already looks dated, and will only get worse with time. This happened ages ago and was announced in the news section of the website See - http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/ John it was only announced after the selection was over. freebsd users were not involved. this is not right. :-( that is not true. The intent to change the logo - or create one - was announced and a contest for choosing a logo was announced and entries were solicited well before the choice of logo was done. also, the other entries were not published. so we can't really compare. That is true and I think that may have been a poor choice but it probably would have resulted in even more noise on the lists rather than less. it seems like the whole thing was intended to be quiet and public was just left out of the process. Not completely left out, but less involved than might be ideal. I just wish the FreeBSD community had more ability to create meaningful logos. Their talents seem to all lie in the area of creating and managing software systems... By the way, here where I work, they made a big fuss and came up with a new 'logo' that we are required to have on our cards and such and it is totally meaningless and unrelated to what our department is or does. It is, at least a little bit artsey and attractice, but I think this logo problem is endemic in the field. jerry martin ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: To those taking affront at such answers, no one is saying oh, fork you! in some intentionally rude or belittling way (at least, I'm not), they're saying forking (process-wise) to the appropriate forum is the logical thing to do. I take affront to such answers because of the simple fact that it's obvious that your perfectly valid answer isn't a real answer. A real answer would be something that would get rid of this continual resurgence of this discussion. Thus the suggestion that folks pursue it in a forum where PR might actually be germane, and in a way that might actually bear results. Continual barking on questions@ about how upset folks are has got to be among the very least effective ways of seeking change (other than changes to killfiles). Based on responses I'd estimate about 60% of FBSD users didn't want the logo changed before the contest. Based on responses post-contest results, I think about 90% of users hate the new logo. Despite what 24-hour cable news channels might like to have us believe, % self-selected email senders % actually holding opinions. Asserting that these are valid statistics is nonsense. Like many folks who really don't care about the logo all that much one way or the other, I simply won't be reading or posting on this subject any more (making any future post counts that much less valid as statistics). -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) gregb at scls.lib.wi.us, (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo (was ACPI / APM Question)
Figure this may get more attention - LOL !!! Message: 6 Date: Thu, 11 May 2006 07:31:50 +0100 From: Graham Bentley [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: ACPI / APM Question To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 I am running 6.0 on a little rackserver. Alot of the time its inactive and I was wondering about trying to setup ACPI the main reason being to spin down the disc / PSU so its a bit quieter (its in my office) I would require it to wake on LAN activity. How feasable is this and what steps do I need to take to set it up ? I am reading acpiconf man right now but I suspect more is required. I have set the BIOS to WOL, spin down disc after 15 mins and ACPI suspend type to S1. Just tested acpiconf -s 4 and it shuts the system down completely? Any help appreciated - Thanks! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC schrieb: And doesn't beastie represent the complete *BSD family, not just FreeBSD? I think so. Björn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:31 AM To: Ted Mittelstaedt Cc: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Wow, Ted a top-poster! Why not, no point making everyone reread the entire argument all over again, I'm sure most people on the list have seen it an enormous number of times already. A professional evaluation of beastie showed he was not a logo and had served as a poor-one at that in his ersatz role as a wanna-be logo. (Note that I did not say that Beastie was poor but that he had served as a poor logo based on professional criteria of what makes a good logo). So, we traded in Beastie, a difficult and expensive to print logo that lost most resolution when shrunk down, for a difficult and expensive to print logo that loses most resolution when shrunk down. Ah, this is progress. Kind of like the automobile companies do, when they replace last years difficult and expensive to service model because everything is jammed into a too small engine bay, with this years difficult and expensive to service model because everything is jammed into a too small engine bay. I got it now! Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
He became a mascot only after the 'new-logo' people started agitating for the sex-ball. Prior to that all the literature referred to him as a logo, when the word logo was used. (which wasn't often, but it was used) This is nothing more than an argument of appeasement and has been explained before in this forum, please quit insulting our intelligence. We all know that Beastie's place as the logo has been supplanted, and your side won, and your crude attempt to explain away Beastie is insulting. You won, be content with that. Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Björn König Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 PM To: Lawrence Horvath Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Lawrence Horvath schrieb: I quite like the new logo, i think the new one is far more professional then the old one, though i liked them both. I would say that there isn't an old one. Beastie is a little bit older than FreeBSD and I would understand it as mascot, not as a logo. So the new logo is not a replacement, but rather something that is missing for many years; and Beastie is still alive. Regards Björn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
Am Mittwoch, den 10.05.2006, 02:05 -0700 schrieb Ted Mittelstaedt: My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. At LinuxTag 2006 in Wiesbaden we had prepared a lot of CDs with the new Logo (what you call a sex toy?). We also used the new logo as a flag on our booth. You will find a few pictures here: http://www.encephalon.de/photo/bsd_bilder/lt2006/index.html So, the long long time was a really short time ;-). Axel # DISCLAIMER # # # # Der Inhalt dieser E-Mail ist vertraulich. Falls Sie nicht der# # angegebene Empfaenger sind oder falls diese Email irrtuemlich an Sie # # addressiert wurde, verstaendigen Sie bitte den Absender sofort und # # loeschen Sie die Email umgehend. Das unerlaubte Kopieren sowie die # # unbefugte Uebermittlung sind nicht gestattet.# # Die Sicherheit von Uebermittlungen per Email kann nicht garantiert # # werden. Falls Sie eine Bestaetigung wuenschen, fordern Sie bitte den # # Inhalt der Email als Hardcopy an.# # # # # # The contents of this e-mail are confidential. # # If you are not the named addressee you should not disseminate, # # distribute or copy this e-mail. Please notify the sender immediately # # if you have received this e-mail by mistake and delete this e-mail # # from your system. Finally, the recipient should check this email and # # any attachments for the presence of viruses. The company accepts no # # liability for any damage caused by any virus transmitted by this # # email. # # # # SuedFactoring GmbH, Heilbronner Strasse 86, 70191 Stuttgart # ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On May 10, 2006, at 2:25 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: He became a mascot only after the 'new-logo' people started agitating for the sex-ball. Prior to that all the literature referred to him as a logo, when the word logo was used. (which wasn't often, but it was used) This is nothing more than an argument of appeasement and has been explained before in this forum, please quit insulting our intelligence. We all know that Beastie's place as the logo has been supplanted, and your side won, and your crude attempt to explain away Beastie is insulting. You won, be content with that. Wow, Ted a top-poster! A professional evaluation of beastie showed he was not a logo and had served as a poor-one at that in his ersatz role as a wanna-be logo. (Note that I did not say that Beastie was poor but that he had served as a poor logo based on professional criteria of what makes a good logo). Beastie has his place. Chad Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Björn König Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 PM To: Lawrence Horvath Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Lawrence Horvath schrieb: I quite like the new logo, i think the new one is far more professional then the old one, though i liked them both. I would say that there isn't an old one. Beastie is a little bit older than FreeBSD and I would understand it as mascot, not as a logo. So the new logo is not a replacement, but rather something that is missing for many years; and Beastie is still alive. Regards Björn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: Beech Rintoul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:41 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo That's all well and good, but I for one don't plan to replace the powered by beastie logo on any of my sites with that sex-toy. It would be interesting to see how many webmasters agree with me. Webmasters have it easy, you get plenty of resolution on the Web and as many colors as you want for free, and you can print as many copies as you want for nothing. The real litmus test will be if they come out with stickers that people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, and when companies print up sales literature that they have to pay for printing costs on, whether they choose the sex toy or Beastie. My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. The one good thing about all this nonsense is that 5 years from now when there are still hundreds of websites, marketing materials, presentations, CDROMs, and such that prominently feature Beastie, it will pretty much pull the fangs of the argument that we need to replace Beastie as a logo because as a devil he's causing too many people to not use FreeBSD which was the main argument that triggered the entire contest and it's sex toy result. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
At 08:13 10.05.2006, Björn König wrote: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC schrieb: And doesn't beastie represent the complete *BSD family, not just FreeBSD? I think so. Björn Please take this to the advocacy mailinglist. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wednesday 10 May 2006 01:05, you wrote: -Original Message- From: Beech Rintoul [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 1:41 AM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Cc: Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC; Ted Mittelstaedt Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo That's all well and good, but I for one don't plan to replace the powered by beastie logo on any of my sites with that sex-toy. It would be interesting to see how many webmasters agree with me. Webmasters have it easy, you get plenty of resolution on the Web and as many colors as you want for free, and you can print as many copies as you want for nothing. The real litmus test will be if they come out with stickers that people have to pay for, to see if those last as a product, and when companies print up sales literature that they have to pay for printing costs on, whether they choose the sex toy or Beastie. My guess is it will be a long, long time before you see CDROMs from anybody that have deleted Beastie and have the sex toy. The one good thing about all this nonsense is that 5 years from now when there are still hundreds of websites, marketing materials, presentations, CDROMs, and such that prominently feature Beastie, it will pretty much pull the fangs of the argument that we need to replace Beastie as a logo because as a devil he's causing too many people to not use FreeBSD which was the main argument that triggered the entire contest and it's sex toy result. Ted The most interesting time I've had with beastie was setting up servers and a website for a Baptist org here in Alaska. I put beastie on the site thinking it would never be approved. They were seeking donations and were very sensitive about the site's image. Not only did the clergy approve the site with the powered by logo, they thought beastie was cute. Even after several irate emails about displaying the devil on a church site, the logo remained. It was decided that several narrow minded people did not warrant removing it. I didn't even have to explain what a daemon is. Several months later the site won an award at one of their national conventions. The plaque featured a screen shot of the front page complete with beastie! If people are refraining from using FreeBSD because of beastie (which I don't believe), they really need to just grow up. If the Baptists don't have any problem with him, I can't imagine anyone else objecting. Beech -- --- Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com --- pgpS8ONKfByKh.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:58 PM To: FreeBSD Questions Mailing List Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo On May 9, 2006, at 11:34 PM, Björn König wrote: Lawrence Horvath schrieb: I quite like the new logo, i think the new one is far more professional then the old one, though i liked them both. I would say that there isn't an old one. Beastie is a little bit older than FreeBSD and I would understand it as mascot, not as a logo. So the new logo is not a replacement, but rather something that is missing for many years; and Beastie is still alive. And doesn't beastie represent the complete *BSD family, not just FreeBSD? No, the original BSD representation (http://www.mckusick.com/beastie/jpg/foglio.jpg) included many devils, not looking at all like Beastie. The famous classic artwork that most of the successive representations have been based on was the 4.3BSD daemon drawn by John Lasseter. It also didn't hurt that John went on to do Toy Story and so on. Many BSD variants have used variations of the Lasseter artwork simply because it was such a good image, it captured the essense of BSD at the time - bursting onto the scene yet still fragile and young. But not all BSD variants used and use Beastie. BSDI only used him a few times, OpenBSD uses the blowfish, not Beastie, NetBSD uses the flag. Although, both NetBSD and OpenBSD have used modified Beastie images in the past. The sad truth is that FreeBSD has really gone way downhill in the logo department. We traded in a logo drawn by a true professional who is one of the famous great graphic artists of our time, for a amateur ping-pong ball drawn by a nobody in a nickel and dime contest. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
hi, On 5/9/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then take this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just flame bait here. I don't want a chat, I want to know where I can find out how we ended up with such a terrible logo. It seems people think it's a big joke? The new logo already looks dated, and will only get worse with time. I'm trying to make a serious point. Imagine if imacs were still made of transparent coloured plastic. So if this is the wrong list (which was a concern I mentioned in the first line of my original post) where is the right list? I'm not saying save beasite, although I personally think he's awesome. I'm saying think about the future. FreeBSD Tshirt sales are going to plummet. kep ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/05/2006 11:42:17: hi, On 5/9/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then take this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just flame bait here. I don't want a chat, I want to know where I can find out how we ended up with such a terrible logo. It seems people think it's a big joke? The new logo already looks dated, and will only get worse with time. This happened ages ago and was announced in the news section of the website See - http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/ John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wednesday 10 May 2006 00:30, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On May 10, 2006, at 2:25 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: He became a mascot only after the 'new-logo' people started agitating for the sex-ball. Prior to that all the literature referred to him as a logo, when the word logo was used. (which wasn't often, but it was used) This is nothing more than an argument of appeasement and has been explained before in this forum, please quit insulting our intelligence. We all know that Beastie's place as the logo has been supplanted, and your side won, and your crude attempt to explain away Beastie is insulting. You won, be content with that. Wow, Ted a top-poster! A professional evaluation of beastie showed he was not a logo and had served as a poor-one at that in his ersatz role as a wanna-be logo. (Note that I did not say that Beastie was poor but that he had served as a poor logo based on professional criteria of what makes a good logo). Beastie has his place. Chad That's all well and good, but I for one don't plan to replace the powered by beastie logo on any of my sites with that sex-toy. It would be interesting to see how many webmasters agree with me. Beech Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Björn König Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 PM To: Lawrence Horvath Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Lawrence Horvath schrieb: I quite like the new logo, i think the new one is far more professional then the old one, though i liked them both. I would say that there isn't an old one. Beastie is a little bit older than FreeBSD and I would understand it as mascot, not as a logo. So the new logo is not a replacement, but rather something that is missing for many years; and Beastie is still alive. Regards Björn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- --- Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com --- pgpzkFuTyvTzc.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wednesday 10 May 2006 00:18, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Horne Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:23 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo i dont mind saying that i think i must be about the only one who likes the new art. i think its very modern looking, crisp and abreviated, un-childish, but at the same time not too serious or ominous. ive actually thought about printing out some examples of both versions, carrying it down to our artists in our print studio, and taste testing them with professional artists who couldnt give one care about anything technical. *shrug* would be an interesting experiment, to say the least. Someone already posted a professional analysis. The summary was that the new logo was amateurish with some serious flaws. Amateurish because a ball is about the easiest thing you can produce in Photoshop and very unoriginal. Serious flaws because due to all the shading this logo is impossible to accurately reproduce on small items like business cards, and on larger items the shading makes it very expensive to reproduce due to the number of colors used. At the end of the day you need to ask yourself, will having this logo help FreeBSD to sell more copies? That's the litmus test that is used for logos - after all if it does not help market penetration, it's a big waste of time. The problem here is that FreeBSD is noncommercial so the question is rather a moot issue. In short, the Project needed a new logo like a boar needs teats. Ted To me it looks like something that would be associated with an inexpensive kids toy company, not a professional OS. Just my $.02 Beech -- --- Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com --- pgp76REzvFh8t.pgp Description: PGP signature
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
-Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Horne Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:23 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo i dont mind saying that i think i must be about the only one who likes the new art. i think its very modern looking, crisp and abreviated, un-childish, but at the same time not too serious or ominous. ive actually thought about printing out some examples of both versions, carrying it down to our artists in our print studio, and taste testing them with professional artists who couldnt give one care about anything technical. *shrug* would be an interesting experiment, to say the least. Someone already posted a professional analysis. The summary was that the new logo was amateurish with some serious flaws. Amateurish because a ball is about the easiest thing you can produce in Photoshop and very unoriginal. Serious flaws because due to all the shading this logo is impossible to accurately reproduce on small items like business cards, and on larger items the shading makes it very expensive to reproduce due to the number of colors used. At the end of the day you need to ask yourself, will having this logo help FreeBSD to sell more copies? That's the litmus test that is used for logos - after all if it does not help market penetration, it's a big waste of time. The problem here is that FreeBSD is noncommercial so the question is rather a moot issue. In short, the Project needed a new logo like a boar needs teats. Ted ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how put it on the official website. I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. That also goes for the formation of the new legal FreeBSD foundation. Not a word of it happening on this list until it was a done deal. You can see from this thread just how big a stink this is making. Lets point the finger at the real reason for the new logo. As part of the new legal FreeBSD foundation, the people who set it up though it's better to own the complete rights to the logo. So being pressed for time they choose to keep it off the questions list and pushed it through selecting what ever logo they had just to meet the filing dead line for the new legal FreeBSD foundation formation. For those of you who think this subject is flame bait, YOU ARE WHY THIS NEW LOGO IDEA WAS EVEN ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sham on you, shut your pie hole. I want to know the email addresses of the people in control of the new foundation and everyone on this list who does not like the new logo and/or the way in which it was forced upon us should email them to voice our dissatisfaction directly to them. Because its obvious posting on this list has no effect or value in determining what happens to the legal FreeBSD organization and thus the logo used to represent us. If you want your voice in this matter to be effective you have to email those in legal control of the FreeBSD foundation. It's time they stop hiding and become accountable for their collective actions. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:48 AM To: Kep Woof Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/05/2006 11:42:17: hi, On 5/9/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then take this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just flame bait here. I don't want a chat, I want to know where I can find out how we ended up with such a terrible logo. It seems people think it's a big joke? The new logo already looks dated, and will only get worse with time. This happened ages ago and was announced in the news section of the website See - http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/ John ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list. People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how putting it on the official website removing the beastie logo. I for one do not see any need to change the logo at all. It's just as professional as the penguin. I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. That also goes for the formation of the new legal FreeBSD foundation. Not a word of it happening on this list until it was a done deal. You can see from this thread just how big a stink this is making. Lets point the finger at the real reason for the new logo. As part of the new legal FreeBSD foundation, the people who set it up though it's better to own the complete legal rights to the logo. The beastie logo legal rights is owned by an individual. So being pressed for time they choose to keep it off the questions list and pushed it through selecting what ever logo they had just to meet the filing dead line for the new legal FreeBSD foundation formation. For those of you who think this subject is flame bait, YOU ARE WHY THIS NEW LOGO IDEA WAS EVEN ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sham on you, shut your pie hole. I want to know the email addresses of the people in control of the new foundation and everyone on this list who does not like the new logo and/or the way in which it was forced upon us should email them to voice our dissatisfaction directly to them. Because its obvious posting on this list has no effect or value in determining what happens to the legal FreeBSD organization and thus the logo used to represent us. If you want your voice in this matter to be effective you have to email those in legal control of the FreeBSD foundation. It's time they stop hiding and become accountable for their stupid collective actions. Its time the FreeBSD foundation offer an binding vote by the general user population from all the FreeBSD lists to settle this question once and for all about the beastie logo being the official FreeBSD foundation logo. This even includes our brothers and sisters in other countries who have their own FreeBSD.org websites and don't even know about this logo problem yet. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Tue, 9 May 2006 19:04:49 -0700 jekillen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am not offended by the new or the old logo, accept that there seems to be too much of a trend toward cartoon character art. This, I presume is to appeal to the child in us all. But seriously when do we actually get to be grownups. I don't want to be a grownup. If FreeBSD ever gets serious enough that it makes me feel like a grownup, I'll switch careers. -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list. People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. It was clearly announced with dates and how to make submissions and all and then the closure of the submissions was announced. There was a lot of griping on the list about why bother and such, but not much real objection until the robo-beastie - or would it be space-beastie - was chosen. Though I am not fond of the new thing, it is not because the process of acquiring it was not announced. I do think there was a failure to get better input on the candidates after submissions were made. The process, or lack thereof, of selecting was rather lame. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. They were not left out, except by their own choice of not making any submission. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how putting it on the official website removing the beastie logo. I for one do not see any need to change the logo at all. It's just as professional as the penguin. I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. Nope, it was well publicized. That also goes for the formation of the new legal FreeBSD foundation. Not a word of it happening on this list until it was a done deal. You can see from this thread just how big a stink this is making. Many words were posted. Lets point the finger at the real reason for the new logo. As part of the new legal FreeBSD foundation, the people who set it up though it's better to own the complete legal rights to the logo. The beastie logo legal rights is owned by an individual. So being pressed for time they choose to keep it off the questions list and pushed it through selecting what ever logo they had just to meet the filing dead line for the new legal FreeBSD foundation formation. Maybe, who knows. For those of you who think this subject is flame bait, YOU ARE WHY THIS NEW LOGO IDEA WAS EVEN ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sham on you, shut your pie hole. That was unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion. I want to know the email addresses of the people in control of the new foundation and everyone on this list who does not like the new logo and/or the way in which it was forced upon us should email them to voice our dissatisfaction directly to them. Because its obvious posting on this list has no effect or value in determining what happens to the legal FreeBSD organization and thus the logo used to represent us. If you want your voice in this matter to be effective you have to email those in legal control of the FreeBSD foundation. It's time they stop hiding and become accountable for their stupid collective actions. Use whatever logo you want. Give up trash talking. Its time the FreeBSD foundation offer an binding vote by the general user population from all the FreeBSD lists to settle this question once and for all about the beastie logo being the official FreeBSD foundation logo. This even includes our brothers and sisters in other countries who have their own FreeBSD.org websites and don't even know about this logo problem yet. There never has been a binding vote on anything outside of possibly the core group. Why would a dumb piece of graphics need it. You are missing something. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
Hi, thanks for the pointer.. On 5/10/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This happened ages ago and was announced in the news section of the website See - http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/ However, where were the other designs? I think a contest was potentially a good idea, but my suspicion is that the entries were rather poor, and the current logo was simply the best of a bad bunch? It seems wierd that only commiters were given a vote - while I respect their technical judement without quarrel, geeks don't seem to have the same grasp on aesethetics as a design agency. Take a look at the netbsd logo if you want to see how it's done. It means something. It's neat. It represents the project. What we (the users) seem to have ended up with is a fussy and unelegent logo that has nothing to do with anythin, save for a pair of post-modern ice cream cones harking back to beastie. The simple fact is, when you look at the new logo it only makes sense if you previously understand what it represents. The effect is that it represents nothing in particular, which is why it fails so fantasically. What are the key values of FreeBSD? I'd guess something like Freedom, Stability, Robustness, quality. Those values are not communicated in the new logo, and I think that's something that somebody with freebsd.org in their email address should seriously address. kep ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New FreeBSD Logo
The point being it was not announced on the questions list. The point being the logo affects all the users just not the core committers. Quite trying to make a non-subject out of something that effects us all. The official logo represents all of us users to the world as a whole. Cant you get that through your collectives heads. How dare you be little this subject. Maybe you are to close to the internal FreeBSD business to be able to see the turn meaning of what changing the logo means to the users. Maybe now is the time to ask the list if that want to vote on keeping the new logo? Or on if a new logo is wanted at all? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jerry McAllister Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 9:25 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: Ted Mittelstaedt; freebsd-questions@freebsd.org; Beech Rintoul; Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list. People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. It was clearly announced with dates and how to make submissions and all and then the closure of the submissions was announced. There was a lot of griping on the list about why bother and such, but not much real objection until the robo-beastie - or would it be space-beastie - was chosen. Though I am not fond of the new thing, it is not because the process of acquiring it was not announced. I do think there was a failure to get better input on the candidates after submissions were made. The process, or lack thereof, of selecting was rather lame. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. They were not left out, except by their own choice of not making any submission. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how putting it on the official website removing the beastie logo. I for one do not see any need to change the logo at all. It's just as professional as the penguin. I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. Nope, it was well publicized. That also goes for the formation of the new legal FreeBSD foundation. Not a word of it happening on this list until it was a done deal. You can see from this thread just how big a stink this is making. Many words were posted. Lets point the finger at the real reason for the new logo. As part of the new legal FreeBSD foundation, the people who set it up though it's better to own the complete legal rights to the logo. The beastie logo legal rights is owned by an individual. So being pressed for time they choose to keep it off the questions list and pushed it through selecting what ever logo they had just to meet the filing dead line for the new legal FreeBSD foundation formation. Maybe, who knows. For those of you who think this subject is flame bait, YOU ARE WHY THIS NEW LOGO IDEA WAS EVEN ABLE TO GET OFF THE GROUND IN THE FIRST PLACE. Sham on you, shut your pie hole. That was unnecessary and adds nothing to the discussion. I want to know the email addresses of the people in control of the new foundation and everyone on this list who does not like the new logo and/or the way in which it was forced upon us should email them to voice our dissatisfaction directly to them. Because its obvious posting on this list has no effect or value in determining what happens to the legal FreeBSD organization and thus the logo used to represent us. If you want your voice in this matter to be effective you have to email those in legal control of the FreeBSD foundation. It's time they stop hiding and become accountable for their stupid collective actions. Use whatever logo you want. Give up trash talking. Its time the FreeBSD foundation offer an binding vote by the general user population from all the FreeBSD lists to settle this question once and for all about the beastie logo being the official FreeBSD foundation logo. This even includes our brothers and sisters in other countries who have their own FreeBSD.org websites and don't even know about this logo problem yet. There never has been a binding vote on anything outside of possibly the core group. Why would a dumb piece of graphics need it. You are missing something. jerry ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, 10 May 2006 13:49:20 + Kep Woof [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: [snip] Take a look at the netbsd logo if you want to see how it's done. It means something. It's neat. It represents the project. What we (the users) seem to have ended up with is a fussy and unelegent logo that has nothing to do with anythin, save for a pair of post-modern ice cream cones harking back to beastie. My brother went to school for graphic arts. When the contest was announced, we spend _several_weeks_ brainstorming, he and I, trying to come up with something that looked as cool as the NetBSD logo, while representing FreeBSD. We finally gave up without making a submission. The problem is that NetBSD (and OpenBSD as well, for that matter) somehow have more culture to them on the graphic arts side. NetBSD has long had the image of daemons raising the flag (mirroring the WWII photograph) which translated nicely into a logo. OpenBSD has long had the Blowfish, which can be rendered a number of interesting ways. And FreeBSD has what? The Beastie ... but the Beastie is *BSD in general, so what else is there ... ? The simple fact is, when you look at the new logo it only makes sense if you previously understand what it represents. The effect is that it represents nothing in particular, which is why it fails so fantasically. What are the key values of FreeBSD? I'd guess something like Freedom, Stability, Robustness, quality. Those values are not communicated in the new logo, and I think that's something that somebody with freebsd.org in their email address should seriously address. You're exactly right. Somebody other than you should take care of this. This is everyone's fault but yours. If you'd been in the loop from the start, this never would have happened. My goodness, why didn't we consult you earlier ... you obviously have all the answers. This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. If you can't fix it, _ask_ someone else, or put up some cash to pay someone who can. But quit whining. You are a Troll. If you weren't a Troll, you'd have taken this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of staying on this list. Go use Microsoft, they pay professional graphic artists big bucks to design their logos and their marketing materials, and you fund that with your Windows license fees. Or, _contribute_ something back to the wonderful free software community other than a lengthy email thread of whining. -- Bill Moran Collaborative Fusion Inc. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
fbsd wrote: As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list. People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. http://pixelhammer.com/aw_jeez.jpg This has gone too far. Searching shows that the FreeBSD questions list had mention of this over a year ago. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/htdig/freebsd-questions/2005-February/076063.html To be blunt about it, you and everyone else had their chance. My wife, a designer, knew FreeBSD had a logo contest and she wouldn't know FreeBSD from a martian if it were not for my T-shirt. Anyone could have contributed. But like beta testing, most simply ignored the request to participate, preferring to wait until someone else did the hard work and made the tough decisions, then chose to bitch when the result was not want they wanted. It's apathy. Yea, I'm more than annoyed and this has been a long time coming. How many people actually keep a development server running just to help open source developers test patches or updates, even when those patches and updates do not affect them? How many donate to the souls who write the tools we use every day? Or do they just read the maillists when they need help, never offering to help others, and then get an attitude when the help they request doesn't arrive? A lot. I constantly dog my employers to donate, let me have work time to help out on lists, purchase the books (Mailscanner and Rails) that help the developers, keep a development box for testing. They complain even though they could not compete in the market place had they been required to purchase licenses for all the software they use. The Internet is the industry that open source built, and it has created a society of hand out junkies who think they should get everything their way, for free, right now. This job isn't fun anymore. DAve -- This message was checked by forty monkeys and found to not contain any SPAM whatsoever. Your monkeys may vary ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
Thank you for making my point. This should have been announced on all lists. Just not the announcement list. Changing the logo is really a big thing. See the outcome of the short sightedness of that decision. And why should just the core committers be the only ones given a vote. Most of them are too busy to even have been aware this was happening. Many professional logo design people never even knew about the contest to redesign the logo because it was not posted to the questions list where everyone reads. What makes you think that the announcement list gets even a fraction of the readers the questions list does. Hell the questinos list gets enought junk post all ready, what's the harm in posting such an inportment message to the list to begin with, not doing so makes no sense at all. Somebody messed up big time and now they have to deal with the results of their stupid mistakes. You core committer people have to break out of this private club mentality thing you all adhere to. The logo effects all users and as such we should have vote in the matter. What were you all thinking? This was a bad idea from the get go. Just because core committer have the ability to write high level code does not give them the right to thumb your collective noses at the rest of us users in the matter of needing a new logo. In moving to an new legal status by forming the FreeBSD foundation us users just look the other way just long as the software stays free of cost and no new legal restraints are imposed on the software use. But changing the logo effects all users and sham on you self righteous snobs to even think you have the right to exclude the user community from the logo decision. Get off your high horses and serve your users like your suppose to. I think the new logo should be shit canned and the whole question of replaceing the beastie logo brought up for a general vote bye all members of all the Freebsd mailing lists. Your negtave comments are foundless. A public vote is not an logistical near-impossibility. Hell just creating a special list to submit an email to as your yes or not vote is a simple solution and other solutions could be found one way or the other. If you are insulted by my comments then I guess you belong the self righteous snobs group and I dont care about you. This is address the the users who like me are out raged by this. If you dont like the new logo then lets make our combined voices make a differance by emailing the new foundation's forming members. -Original Message- From: Nick Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:13:24 -0400 fbsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. That's because this is the freebsd-questions list. It was announced on the freebsd-announce list. Y'know, the one where announcements are made... Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. Again, this is the freebsd-questions list. I don't really think that this is actually the most appropriate place for discussion of such things (and therefore I should probably apologise for contributing to this lil' thread!). Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how put it on the official website. I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. Perhaps not, but then again, this is why there's a core team to make decisions for the project. Granted they're not elected by every user who's ever heard the word FreeBSD, but I can't even begin to imagine the logistical near-impossibility this would be. Committers were given the chance to vote, and voted for the new design (again, see http://logo-contest.freebsd.org/result/, which also has a link to the archived original announcement to freebsd-announce). I would say special effort was made to keep this whole new logo thing a secret from the general user population. See above, it was announced very publically on the freebsd-announce list. (snip) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 6:48 AM To: Kep Woof Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote on 10/05/2006 11:42:17: hi, On 5/9/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Then take this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] It's just flame bait here. I don't want a chat, I want to know where I can find out how we ended up with such a terrible logo. It seems people think it's a big joke
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
fbsd wrote: Thank you for making my point. This should have been announced on all lists. Just not the announcement list. Changing the logo is really a big thing. Yes. But the point of having a announce list is so that important announcements are not jumbled in with lots of where can I download freebsd. Does anyone else think its a logo get over it? When was the last time an IT admin went I installed Win 2k3 becuase it has that cool logo thing that I like for a screensaver? Regards, Richard ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Ted The most interesting time I've had with beastie was setting up servers and a website for a Baptist org here in Alaska. I put beastie on the site thinking it would never be approved. They were seeking donations and were very sensitive about the site's image. Not only did the clergy approve the site with the powered by logo, they thought beastie was cute. Well, as we're on a religious theme, Thank God for common sense. How many religious people worldwide even HAVE devils in their religion, I wonder. Even after several irate emails about displaying the devil on a church site, the logo remained. It was decided that several narrow minded people did not warrant removing it. I didn't even have to explain what a daemon is. Again, amen. Do we really want narrow-minded people in our community? Does anyone? Several months later the site won an award at one of their national conventions. The plaque featured a screen shot of the front page complete with beastie! That's devilishly good news, If people are refraining from using FreeBSD because of beastie (which I don't believe), they really need to just grow up. Hear, hear If the Baptists don't have any problem with him, I can't imagine anyone else objecting. I can, but then as you say, they need to grow up. Jeff. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
Hi, On 5/10/06, Bill Moran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You're exactly right. Somebody other than you should take care of this. I'm trying to understand what has happened and why. I'm trying to take care of this, and you, with your accusations and vitriol are'nt helping. I want to understand the process by which the logo was chosen so I may influence future decisions. This is everyone's fault but yours. If you'd been in the loop from the start, this never would have happened. My goodness, why didn't we consult you earlier ... you obviously have all the answers. Excuse me? Now this is clearly flame baiting. This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. What is the procedure to fix a logo? A logo doesn't work the same as a piece of source code, which is why commiters shouldn't have been the only people with an opinion that counts. It's the users that use the software. We're an essential part of the community, we buy cd's, show our friends, retire windows boxes here and there. The logo is our badge, and anyone that's ever been to a convention knows that. If you can't fix it, _ask_ someone else, or put up some cash to pay someone who can. I can't help but think that cash has little to do with this. I'm sure between us we could raise a few thousand dollars for someone to design a proper logo, but i'm sure it's not as simple as that. But quit whining. I'm not whining, I'm trying to understand. You are a Troll. If you weren't a Troll, you'd have taken this to [EMAIL PROTECTED] or [EMAIL PROTECTED] instead of staying on this list. I'm not a troll. It seems like a rather convenient way to silence someone to me. Is my question advocacy related? I don't think so. It has a much wider scope than that. Go use Microsoft, they pay professional graphic artists big bucks to design their logos and their marketing materials, and you fund that with your Windows license fees. How is that related or helpful? Or, _contribute_ something back to the wonderful free software community other than a lengthy email thread of whining. I'm trying to, but it has to start somewhere. I'm trying to understand how the logo was chosen, and why. It would seem to have far greater ramifications than you think. kep ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
fbsd wrote: The point being it was not announced on the questions list. Non-technical announcements are not in the questions@ charter. The point being the logo affects all the users just not the core committers. And it affects you in exactly the same way as thousands of other choices made by core without your explicit involvement or approval. Love the new feature and use it, or, don't use it. It's real simple. Why don't the complainers on this subject seem to understand that they are in no way compelled to adopt, deploy, endorse or enjoy the project logo? Use Beastie if you like, there is absolutely no one telling you that you can't (except, um, its copyright holder). Quite trying to make a non-subject out of something that effects us all. Quit using question@ as a beauty contest / user rights forum, please. It *is* far OT, especially since there are other forums specifically for such subject matter. The logo issue is a horse that has been solidly beaten to death, raised as a zombie, chased with torches and pitchforks, burnt to crispiness, buried and then (surprise!) brought to life again this week for another 1,001 rounds of beating and flaming. Tiresome, really. No one is belittling the subject, only pointing out that it's both OT and done with. The appearance of the logo on the Web site is not a beginning, it's a finality. If you want to hack and burn the undead, go play Oblivion. ;) Maybe now is the time to ask the list if that want to vote on keeping the new logo? Or on if a new logo is wanted at all? Wrong forum, years too late. -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) gregb at scls.lib.wi.us, (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
I'm going to put my 2 cents (or at the current conversion rate, 1 (British) penny!) in here, I think. I consider myself a new FreeBSD user. I have used it before (around 4.8), but never really did much with it. I find that I don't very often dual boot OSes, so I've had nothing but Gentoo on my desktop till now. I finally decided to put FreeBSD 6.0 on my laptop, alongside SuSE, and give it a try. I don't expect to have a vote on whether the FreeBSD logo is any good or not. But I can still express an opinion. I'm here to tell you that Beastie has recognition from outside the community as well. That's what logos are for. We in the BSD community, new members as well as old, know who we are. As I said, I did not vote on the new logo business, but if I did, I would have said no. Why didn't I? Well it wasn't because I agreed with it, or because I didn't know about it. I simply didn't consider that I had a right to vote, given that at the time I wasn't even using FreeBSD. People can, and do, use the FreeBSD logo to spread awareness of the OS. That is a good thing. I take the view FreeBSD is intimately connected with Beastie. If the corporate and religious fundie arguments hold water, then why is Beastie still the FreeBSD mascot? I disagreed because, apart from not seeing the point of pandering to a few religious fundies (and those among you who object to such a characterisation should know that I consider myself pretty religious, too, just not a fundie), as I said, Beastie has brand recognition. Sometimes, it's true, you just HAVE to bite the bullet and get a new brand, but there's no point doing it unless its absolutely necessary. I can't remember the last time I saw a different version of the IBM logo except on sites about IBM history. Why? Because people recognize it. It has the advantage of not being too closely identified with a particular era, of course, but so does Beastie. For another example of the same, I believe SONY will suffice. For a few years I've had THE DESIGN AND IMPLEMENTATION OF THE 4.4BSD O.S. It has Beastie on the cover. I'd be more concerned about looking like a geek in synagogue if someone caught me there with it, than a Satanist. I think I'm justified in saying that Linux distributions are more widely accepted than probably all the BSD's put together, certainly in terms of brand recognition amongst the wider public. Having a penguin as the logo doesn't seem to have hurt, even when you consider that (for whatever reason), the root of Linus's fondness for penguins comes from being bitten by one. When ST:TOS came out, the production co. wanted to drop Spock because they thought his appearance was too devilish, despite the fact that in the first (pilot) episode, he *even smiled*. Needless to say, Roddenberry (sp?) stuck to his guns and today Spock is one of the best-loved ST characters, known even outside the Star Trek fan community. I'm sure a few religious fundies still probably object to him (have they found a passage in Leviticus implying God hates aliens/logic yet?). My question to you is this: Who amongst the fanbase, the wider public, or at Paramount gives a damn? Turned into more like my 2 pounds, but there we go. Yours, Jeff. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
Take a look at the netbsd logo if you want to see how it's done. It means something. It's neat. It represents the project. What we (the users) seem to have ended up with is a fussy and unelegent logo that has nothing to do with anythin, save for a pair of post-modern ice cream cones harking back to beastie. My brother went to school for graphic arts. When the contest was announced, we spend _several_weeks_ brainstorming, he and I, trying to come up with something that looked as cool as the NetBSD logo, while representing FreeBSD. The NetBSD sucks too, imao-fyi. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 10:25:32AM -0400, fbsd wrote: Thank you for making my point. This should have been announced on all lists. Just not the announcement list. Wrong. That is exactly what the announcment list is for. Changing the logo is really a big thing. Not really. See the outcome of the short sightedness of that decision. Yeah, we get lots of whining people like yourself wasting bandwidth. And why should just the core committers be the only ones given a vote. Since they are the ones doing most of the job, it seems like a reasonable place to draw the line. Most of them are too busy to even have been aware this was happening. Really? Many professional logo design people never even knew about the contest to redesign the logo because it was not posted to the questions list where everyone reads. Not everyone reads the questions list. Heck, not even all the developers do, due to the low signal/noise ratio here. What makes you think that the announcement list gets even a fraction of the readers the questions list does. The fact that it is a much more important list to read. If you only read one freebsd.org mailing list it should be announce@ since that is where all important announcments are made (including security advisories.) Hell the questinos list gets enought junk post all ready, Yes, but that does not mean you have to provide even more evidence of that. what's the harm in posting such an inportment message to the list to begin with, not doing so makes no sense at all. Somebody messed up big time and now they have to deal with the results of their stupid mistakes. You core committer people have to break out of this private club mentality thing you all adhere to. The logo effects all users and as such we should have vote in the matter. Bullshit. What were you all thinking? This was a bad idea from the get go. Just because core committer have the ability to write high level code does not give them the right to thumb your collective noses at the rest of us users in the matter of needing a new logo. In moving to an new legal status by forming the FreeBSD foundation us users just look the other way just long as the software stays free of cost and no new legal restraints are imposed on the software use. But changing the logo effects all users and sham on you self righteous snobs to even think you have the right to exclude the user community from the logo decision. Get off your high horses and serve your users like your suppose to. You seem to be under the misapprehension that the developers have any obligations to you. That is not the case. I think the new logo should be shit canned and the whole question of replaceing the beastie logo brought up for a general vote bye all members of all the Freebsd mailing lists. And I think you should stop whining about the logo and do something useful instead. Your negtave comments are foundless. Much like your allegations then? A public vote is not an logistical near-impossibility. Hell just creating a special list to submit an email to as your yes or not vote is a simple solution and other solutions could be found one way or the other. If you are insulted by my comments then I guess you belong the self righteous snobs group and I dont care about you. This is address the the users who like me are out raged by this. If you dont like the new logo then lets make our combined voices make a differance by emailing the new foundation's forming members. -Original Message- From: Nick Withers [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, May 10, 2006 8:37 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org On Wed, 10 May 2006 08:13:24 -0400 fbsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. That's because this is the freebsd-questions list. It was announced on the freebsd-announce list. Y'know, the one where announcements are made... Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. Again, this is the freebsd-questions list. I don't really think that this is actually the most appropriate place for discussion of such things (and therefore I should probably apologise for contributing to this lil' thread!). Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how put it on the official website. I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. Perhaps not, but then again, this is why there's a core team to make decisions for the project. Granted they're not elected by every user
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
Does anyone else think its a logo get over it? When was the last time an IT admin went I installed Win 2k3 becuase it has that cool logo thing that I like for a screensaver? I think it's a bigger problem than that. When was the last time Steve Ballmer responded to a complaint that his shiny new elephant d*ck screensaver crashed the system with the words Go fuck yourself? That's the kind of response some who claim to be high-ups in the FreeBSD community are giving here. That kind of attitude helps no one, least of all FreeBSD's reputation. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
Hi, However, where were the other designs? I was wondering about that myself... Take a look at the netbsd logo if you want to see how it's done. Netbsd logo is very nice indeed. The simple fact is, when you look at the new logo it only makes sense if you previously understand what it represents. The effect is that it represents nothing in particular, which is why it fails so fantasically. What are the key values of FreeBSD? I'd guess something like Freedom, Stability, Robustness, quality. Those values are not communicated in the new logo, and I think that's something that somebody with freebsd.org in their email address should seriously address. Kep totally has a point here. Freebsd need's a logo that represents what the name stands for and the sex toy isn't it. -- jedrek pgp49l8k0KlVI.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
At 17:42 10.05.2006, Jeff Rollin wrote: Does anyone else think its a logo get over it? When was the last time an IT admin went I installed Win 2k3 becuase it has that cool logo thing that I like for a screensaver? I think it's a bigger problem than that. When was the last time Steve Ballmer responded to a complaint that his shiny new elephant d*ck screensaver crashed the system with the words Go fuck yourself? That's the kind of response some who claim to be high-ups in the FreeBSD community are giving here. That kind of attitude helps no one, least of all FreeBSD's reputation. Freeze! This is the BSDPD. Stop this shit immediately! ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On May 10, 2006, at 2:41 AM, Beech Rintoul wrote: On Wednesday 10 May 2006 00:30, Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC wrote: On May 10, 2006, at 2:25 AM, Ted Mittelstaedt wrote: He became a mascot only after the 'new-logo' people started agitating for the sex-ball. Prior to that all the literature referred to him as a logo, when the word logo was used. (which wasn't often, but it was used) This is nothing more than an argument of appeasement and has been explained before in this forum, please quit insulting our intelligence. We all know that Beastie's place as the logo has been supplanted, and your side won, and your crude attempt to explain away Beastie is insulting. You won, be content with that. Wow, Ted a top-poster! A professional evaluation of beastie showed he was not a logo and had served as a poor-one at that in his ersatz role as a wanna-be logo. (Note that I did not say that Beastie was poor but that he had served as a poor logo based on professional criteria of what makes a good logo). Beastie has his place. Chad That's all well and good, but I for one don't plan to replace the powered by beastie logo on any of my sites with that sex-toy. It would be interesting to see how many webmasters agree with me. We have had this out before. No one is asking you or forcing you to replace any beastie you have anywhere. Can me move on? The post I made was specifically in response to one from Ted where he made claims about professional reviews of the new logo. For the record, the new logo doesn't impress me either. move along Chad Beech Ted -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Björn König Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 10:35 PM To: Lawrence Horvath Cc: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo Lawrence Horvath schrieb: I quite like the new logo, i think the new one is far more professional then the old one, though i liked them both. I would say that there isn't an old one. Beastie is a little bit older than FreeBSD and I would understand it as mascot, not as a logo. So the new logo is not a replacement, but rather something that is missing for many years; and Beastie is still alive. Regards Björn ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.392 / Virus Database: 268.5.5/334 - Release Date: 5/8/2006 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to freebsd-questions- [EMAIL PROTECTED] --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- -- - Beech Rintoul - Sys. Administrator - [EMAIL PROTECTED] /\ ASCII Ribbon Campaign | Alaska Paradise \ / - NO HTML/RTF in e-mail | 201 East 9Th Avenue Ste.310 X - NO Word docs in e-mail | Anchorage, AK 99501 / \ - Please visit Alaska Paradise - http://www.alaskaparadise.com -- - --- Chad Leigh -- Shire.Net LLC Your Web App and Email hosting provider chad at shire.net ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 01:49:20PM +, Kep Woof wrote: What are the key values of FreeBSD? I'd guess something like Freedom, Stability, Robustness, quality. The current logo looks like a FAT bloated Beastie that swallowed up too much code... [recently compiled 4.11 and 6.1, and it shows...] :-) Just kidding, of course: the *code* is excellent; unlike that poor logo design (wondering why they didn't add a nice necktie to please the suits). :-) -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 02:44:03PM +, Kep Woof wrote: This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. What is the procedure to fix a logo? use send-pr(1), of course! Since we're talking about logos: when will the next time window open for a new try? I humbly suggest using 'FreeBSD' (the text, no graphics) as logo. The only parameter would be choosing the right distinctive font (let's call it the FreeBSD-Font) for it. Was that suggested back then? We used to have a 'FreeBSD' image on the old website. Perhaps that should have been used as a logo? ANYTHING would have been better than that current ugly sex-toy. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On 10/5/06 13:13, fbsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As a long time reader of this list I did not see any announcement of it here. Only after selection of the new logo was made was it talked about on this list People were very up set with it them and the ground swell over this has only gotten bigger. Loyal long time users are feeling insulted about being left out from the decision about the need for a new logo. A post in the archive give some lame reasons for a new logo which many people disagreed with even then but still the new legal FreeBSD foundation went ahead any how put it on the official website. I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. That's no reason to tell lies. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On 10/5/06 15:25, fbsd [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Your negtave comments are foundless. A public vote is not an logistical near-impossibility. Hell just creating a special list to submit an email to as your yes or not vote is a simple solution and other solutions could be found one way or the other. I guess that's why the USENET voting procedures didn't just get abandoned. If you are insulted by my comments then I guess you belong the self righteous snobs group and I dont care about you. Funny, that. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On 10/5/06 16:42, Jeff Rollin [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Does anyone else think its a logo get over it? When was the last time an IT admin went I installed Win 2k3 becuase it has that cool logo thing that I like for a screensaver? I think it's a bigger problem than that. When was the last time Steve Ballmer responded to a complaint that his shiny new elephant d*ck screensaver crashed the system with the words Go fuck yourself? That's the kind of response some who claim to be high-ups in the FreeBSD community are giving here. Not a single high-up, whatever that means, has responded to this thread. Could be nice if people would stop lying while trying to make a point. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On 10/5/06 09:18, Ted Mittelstaedt [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Jonathan Horne Sent: Tuesday, May 09, 2006 7:23 PM To: freebsd-questions@freebsd.org Subject: Re: New FreeBSD Logo i dont mind saying that i think i must be about the only one who likes the new art. i think its very modern looking, crisp and abreviated, un-childish, but at the same time not too serious or ominous. ive actually thought about printing out some examples of both versions, carrying it down to our artists in our print studio, and taste testing them with professional artists who couldnt give one care about anything technical. *shrug* would be an interesting experiment, to say the least. Someone already posted a professional analysis. The summary was that the new logo was amateurish with some serious flaws. Amateurish because a ball is about the easiest thing you can produce in Photoshop and very unoriginal. Serious flaws because due to all the shading this logo is impossible to accurately reproduce on small items like business cards, and on larger items the shading makes it very expensive to reproduce due to the number of colors used. In fact, there are reduced colour versions for exactly that reason. Since you didn't bother to look for them, I guess this isn't the real issue for you, though. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 10:03:04AM -0500, Greg Barniskis wrote: No one is belittling the subject, only pointing out that it's both OT and done with. The appearance of the logo on the Web site is not a beginning, it's a finality. questions@ is for general user questions. The sex-toy just appeared on the main website, and a user then asked questions about it. That's a perfectly valid forum, *especially* considering the current time frame. Questions like these, and the following threads are bound to come every now and then, also and especially here on [EMAIL PROTECTED] The logo advocates and the committee that picked the current logo brought it on themselves and will have to live with it. Just like we users have to live with their unfortunate decision. -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
On 10/5/06 15:15, DAve [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: http://pixelhammer.com/aw_jeez.jpg This has gone too far. Searching shows that the FreeBSD questions list had mention of this over a year ago. http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/htdig/freebsd-questions/2005-February/076063. html To be blunt about it, you and everyone else had their chance. My wife, a designer, knew FreeBSD had a logo contest and she wouldn't know FreeBSD from a martian if it were not for my T-shirt. Anyone could have contributed. But like beta testing, most simply ignored the request to participate, preferring to wait until someone else did the hard work and made the tough decisions, then chose to bitch when the result was not want they wanted. It's apathy. Yea, I'm more than annoyed and this has been a long time coming. How many people actually keep a development server running just to help open source developers test patches or updates, even when those patches and updates do not affect them? How many donate to the souls who write the tools we use every day? Or do they just read the maillists when they need help, never offering to help others, and then get an attitude when the help they request doesn't arrive? A lot. I constantly dog my employers to donate, let me have work time to help out on lists, purchase the books (Mailscanner and Rails) that help the developers, keep a development box for testing. They complain even though they could not compete in the market place had they been required to purchase licenses for all the software they use. The Internet is the industry that open source built, and it has created a society of hand out junkies who think they should get everything their way, for free, right now. This job isn't fun anymore. Hear, hear. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On 10/5/06 18:24, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 02:44:03PM +, Kep Woof wrote: This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. What is the procedure to fix a logo? use send-pr(1), of course! Since we're talking about logos: when will the next time window open for a new try? I humbly suggest using 'FreeBSD' (the text, no graphics) as logo. The only parameter would be choosing the right distinctive font (let's call it the FreeBSD-Font) for it. Was that suggested back then? We used to have a 'FreeBSD' image on the old website. Perhaps that should have been used as a logo? ANYTHING would have been better than that current ugly sex-toy. There were tens of submissions that just had the word 'FreeBSD'. The word 'FreeBSD' isn't a logo, or they looked crappy, so they lost. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 05:28:55PM +0200, Erik Trulsson wrote: Many professional logo design people never even knew about the contest to redesign the logo because it was not posted to the questions list where everyone reads. Not everyone reads the questions list. Heck, not even all the developers do, due to the low signal/noise ratio here. Uh-oh! A mindset like this would explain a lot of things. :-( Fortunately, there *are* developers here who do take users' questions seriously. cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 06:40:01PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: On 10/5/06 18:24, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 02:44:03PM +, Kep Woof wrote: This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. What is the procedure to fix a logo? use send-pr(1), of course! Since we're talking about logos: when will the next time window open for a new try? I humbly suggest using 'FreeBSD' (the text, no graphics) as logo. The only parameter would be choosing the right distinctive font (let's call it the FreeBSD-Font) for it. Was that suggested back then? We used to have a 'FreeBSD' image on the old website. Perhaps that should have been used as a logo? ANYTHING would have been better than that current ugly sex-toy. There were tens of submissions that just had the word 'FreeBSD'. Ah, good to know. Thank you. The word 'FreeBSD' isn't a logo, or they looked crappy, so they lost. What about 'SONY' or 'IBM'? They are logos too. Granted, not as long as 'FreeBSD', but a word doesn't disqualify as a logo just because it's a word. Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
Could we please stop this flood?? -- Pietro Cerutti ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. That's no reason to tell lies. There's no reason to accuse people of telling lies without having any evidence, either. Can't wait till you get caught out. Jeff. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 05:51:10PM +, cpghost wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 06:40:01PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: On 10/5/06 18:24, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 02:44:03PM +, Kep Woof wrote: This is free software man, if you don't like it, fix it yourself. What is the procedure to fix a logo? use send-pr(1), of course! Since we're talking about logos: when will the next time window open for a new try? I humbly suggest using 'FreeBSD' (the text, no graphics) as logo. The only parameter would be choosing the right distinctive font (let's call it the FreeBSD-Font) for it. Was that suggested back then? We used to have a 'FreeBSD' image on the old website. Perhaps that should have been used as a logo? ANYTHING would have been better than that current ugly sex-toy. There were tens of submissions that just had the word 'FreeBSD'. Ah, good to know. Thank you. The word 'FreeBSD' isn't a logo, or they looked crappy, so they lost. What about 'SONY' or 'IBM'? They are logos too. Granted, not as long as 'FreeBSD', but a word doesn't disqualify as a logo just because it's a word. I wouldn't sweat (or trust my memory to remember) the details. Most of them definitely said Free BSD though. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere pgp71WmURAV4u.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 07:00:49PM +0100, Jeff Rollin wrote: I for one do not see an need to change the logo at all. That's no reason to tell lies. There's no reason to accuse people of telling lies without having any evidence, either. Statements were made which are provably untrue. Call it what you want. Can't wait till you get caught out. Sure. Ceri -- That must be wonderful! I don't understand it at all. -- Moliere pgp0JuGBhhMJU.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New FreeBSD Logo
cpghost wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 10:03:04AM -0500, Greg Barniskis wrote: No one is belittling the subject, only pointing out that it's both OT and done with. The appearance of the logo on the Web site is not a beginning, it's a finality. questions@ is for general user questions. The sex-toy just appeared on the main website, and a user then asked questions about it. That's a perfectly valid forum, *especially* considering the current time frame. Point taken. I could have phrased that better. * What/when/how did this happen? * How and when can it be undone? * Why didn't I hear about this before? These are indeed all perfectly valid questions. What I was trying to express is that the askers really don't seem to be accepting (or even seeing) the perfectly valid answers: * See the archives where this was beaten to death multiple times. * The best place to pursue such matters is in those forums chartered for PR and general chatter. * Read [EMAIL PROTECTED] To those taking affront at such answers, no one is saying oh, fork you! in some intentionally rude or belittling way (at least, I'm not), they're saying forking (process-wise) to the appropriate forum is the logical thing to do. And [in response to the opposition party] no, I don't buy the assertion that questions@ is the correct forum to continue fighting in simply because it's popular. That's like saying spam is good because it reaches a lot of people cheaply. Forums have charters for reasons. -- Greg Barniskis, Computer Systems Integrator South Central Library System (SCLS) Library Interchange Network (LINK) gregb at scls.lib.wi.us, (608) 266-6348 ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
Since we're talking about logos: when will the next time window open for a new try? I humbly suggest using 'FreeBSD' (the text, Good idea. The word FreeBSD as it stood at the top of the freebsd.orgmainpage the day before the release of 6.1-RELEASE was nice. There were tens of submissions that just had the word 'FreeBSD'. Ah, good to know. Thank you. The word 'FreeBSD' isn't a logo, or they looked crappy, so they lost. What about 'SONY' or 'IBM'? They are logos too. Granted, not as long as 'FreeBSD', but a word doesn't disqualify as a logo just because it's a word. Technics is even longer. Daewoo and Sanyo are shorter, but foreign to all but the Koreans (in the first case) and the Japanese (in the second) Plus, the Koreans and the Japanese don't write in the Roman alphabet ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
cpghost wrote: Uh-oh! A mindset like this would explain a lot of things. :-( Yes, it explains that some people are too busy to read hundreds of messages on this list, and would rather do something else like coding. ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 05:47:44PM +, cpghost wrote: On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 05:28:55PM +0200, Erik Trulsson wrote: Many professional logo design people never even knew about the contest to redesign the logo because it was not posted to the questions list where everyone reads. Not everyone reads the questions list. Heck, not even all the developers do, due to the low signal/noise ratio here. Uh-oh! A mindset like this would explain a lot of things. :-( Fortunately, there *are* developers here who do take users' questions seriously. You missed the point. Signal = questions from users about FreeBSD technical support. Noise = lots of whining about the logo. On the plus side, if you guys keep it up I'll be able to dramatically improve my view of the S/N ratio by adding those with nothing better to contribute than their indignation to my killfile (some are there already) so I *can* focus on the user questions. Kris pgp6mSGETyEC7.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: New freeBSD logo on freebsd.org
On Wed, May 10, 2006 at 02:33:14PM -0400, Kris Kennaway wrote: Not everyone reads the questions list. Heck, not even all the developers do, due to the low signal/noise ratio here. Uh-oh! A mindset like this would explain a lot of things. :-( Fortunately, there *are* developers here who do take users' questions seriously. You missed the point. Signal = questions from users about FreeBSD technical support. Noise = lots of whining about the logo. Kris, compared to the whole volume of technical questions, the logo-related threads/postings are an infinitely small part. I won't bother counting on- and off-topic postings in the last couple of months to show how high S/N really is here. On the plus side, if you guys keep it up I'll be able to dramatically improve my view of the S/N ratio by adding those with nothing better to contribute than their indignation to my killfile (some are there already) so I *can* focus on the user questions. Feel free to do so. You've been of great help on this list many times before (thank you), so I'll hate being on your killfile, even for tech questions. But since it's your spare time, I understand this. Bye, Kris. Keep up the excellent work. Kris Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Re: New freebsd logo on freebsd.org
On Tue, May 09, 2006 at 09:04:31PM +0100, Ceri Davies wrote: On 9/5/06 11:56, cpghost [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Semi-seriously, www@: how about offering people a chance to individually customize that logo away? It's not really THAT important, but setting up a transparent proxy just to filter that banner out is kind of silly waste of time. Specify your own stylesheet, move along. Not a bad idea; thanks for that! Will try [User-CSS, I mean ;-)]. Regards, -cpghost. -- Cordula's Web. http://www.cordula.ws/ ___ freebsd-questions@freebsd.org mailing list http://lists.freebsd.org/mailman/listinfo/freebsd-questions To unsubscribe, send any mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED]
