Re: RPMs for installs and Maint: [WAS SMP/E needed for installs?]

[Bill Johnson]

This is easy. Another company offering 5 9’s.

https://www.sdxcentral.com/articles/sponsored/syndicated/why-five-nines-of-service-availability-matters-for-sase/2023/02/




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On Monday, August 28, 2023, 8:12 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

> On 29 Aug 2023, at 8:05 am, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> You’re the weakest link here. How can IBM guarantee 99.999 uptime for systems 
> they don’t make or support? I’ve worked for numerous companies that didn’t 
> have outages of the mainframe for years. Health insurance companies can get 
> huge fines if their systems are unavailable. I also looked on LinkedIn and 
> there are resumes there that claim they managed systems to 99.999 
> availability. Google it. It’s promised and delivered quite often. In fact 
> 99.999 isn’t all that amazing any longer.
> 
> So your claim is, if my phone dies and I can’t get to my JP Morgan accounts, 
> then JP Morgan doesn’t have 99.999 uptime?

There is nothing more tedious than a straw man argument. It’s a good indication 
that somebody is trying to argue a lost cause. 

> No wonder they aren’t buying your crappy software.

Actually, they do run our software. Almost every mainframe site runs our 
software. Most of them think it’s IBM software as it’s badged IBM. 

> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:47 PM, David Crayford  
> wrote:
> 
>> On 29 Aug 2023, at 7:41 am, Bill Johnson 
>> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> You’re ASSuming Zelle is on the mainframe.
> 
> Why does it matter where it’s running. Banking applications are only as 
> reliable as their weakest link.
> 
>> Multiple 9’s is a fact and many companies are running it.
> 
> Prove it. Provide a link to a bank offering a 99.999% SLA on their banking 
> services. 
> 
>> You’re an idiot. More truth. Looks like you threaten people on the internet 
>> too.
> 
> 
> 
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:27 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 28/8/2023 10:21 pm, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>> LOL, there’s Crayfish making stupid comments again. The difference between 
>>> me and Perryman is I tell the truth. IBM does offer multiple 9’s uptime. 
>>> And numerous banks have the setup necessary.
>> 
>>> JP Morgan (a REAL bank) spends BILLIONS per year on IT.
>> 
>> Yes. And they still have outages
>> 
>> https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/24/chase-bank-app-website-down-servers-not-working-online-and-mobile-banking-suffers/
>> https://www.americanbanker.com/news/zelle-outage-at-jpmorgan-chase-is-red-flag-for-banks
>> https://piunikaweb.com/2023/08/25/wells-fargo-website-and-app-down-not-working-online-banking-suffers/
>> 
>> As banks rush to modernize their services the applications have become 
>> far more compex. Especially integrating new technologies into legacy 
>> systems. More points of failure. 99.999% service availability is a myth.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>> On Monday, August 28, 2023, 7:15 AM, David Crayford  
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> On 27/8/2023 11:05 am, Tom Brennan wrote:
>>>> A bigger problem is Jon says things like this with such conviction and
>>>> authority that other people reading these posts, perhaps years from
>>>> now, will think they are true.
>>> Don't engage with him! There's no point in debating with a troll.
>>> 
>>> Lately, he's been banging on about the 99.99% availability on the
>>> z16. It's clear he's either deeply ignorant or gullible. In any case, it
>>> seems he missed the fine print:
>>> https://www.ibm.com/downloads/cas/0MZVKEYJ. (Who's willing to spend tens
>>> of millions of dollars to run a small Linux rack?)
>>> 
>>> "DISCLAIMER: IBM internal data based on measurements and projections was
>>> used in calculating the expected value. Necessary components include IBM
>>> z16; IBM z/VM V7.2 systems collected in a Single System Image, each
>>> running RHOCP 4.10 or above;
>>> IBM Operations Manager; GDPS 4.5 for management of data recovery and
>>> virtual machine recovery across metro distance systems and storage,
>>> including Metro Multi-site workload and GDPS Global; and IBM DS8000
>>> series storage with IBM HyperSwap. A
>>> MongoDB v4.2 workload was used. Necessary resiliency technology must be
>>> enabled, including z/VM Sin

Re: IBM Deceived Investors

[Bill Johnson]

Nobody goes to prison should they lose a civil lawsuit. The auditing firm gave 
their seal of approval. 


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On Sunday, April 10, 2022, 12:18 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

I knew a guy -- friend of a friend -- who spent a couple of years in a minimum 
security Federal prison -- "Club Fed" as it was the fashion to say at the time. 
(Silicon Valley securities fraud -- he claimed he was innocent and took the 
fall for investors who were of the type you did not want to cross -- but who 
knows?) 

Anyway he always strongly implied that it was a lot more unpleasant and a lot 
less country club than people liked to think. He would never talk about the 
experience beyond saying "I would rather have read the book." Being locked up 
is no fun. Your house may be lovely but I'll bet you would not want to be 
involuntarily confined there for the next two years.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Stefan Skoglund
Sent: Sunday, April 10, 2022 8:34 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM Deceived Investors

lör 2022-04-09 klockan 13:26 +1000 skrev Wayne Bickerdike:
> Hmm. Sanjay Kumar did some serious jail time for fiddling the books.
> Steve
> Richards was sent to a dangerous max-security prison.

It isnt really my beef, but is Taft correction facility a max-security
prison ?
Compared with the one in Terre-haute for example.

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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: FedEx to move entirely to the cloud [Internal]

[Bill Johnson]

That number was announced at their investors meeting 2 weeks ago. Trying so 
hard to get the stock back over 300. And trying to get a multiple like UPS. 
There’s no way they achieve 400 million annually.


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On Friday, July 8, 2022, 8:07 AM, Usher, Darrold 
<014f796d148d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Hard to believe saving $400 million annually. I assume they are factoring in 
Microsoft Azure costs. 

Classification: Internal



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-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 6:46 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: FedEx to move entirely to the cloud

This is hilarious.

The datacenter is dead – at least according to FedEx, which announced plans to 
close its server farms and transition completely to the cloud, where it hopes 
to save an estimated $400 million annually.

The insinuation being the “cloud” will replace servers. When the reality is, 
FEDEX is simply outsourcing to MSFT. Everything will still be done via servers 
. Data centers are everywhere and are still being built.

Plus, this transition started 2-3 years ago. Most of FEDEX’s workload was long 
gone from the mainframe.

Certain people on here salivate when the mainframe loses a customer. Including 
the quasi journalists at the Register. 20 years from now, the mainframe will 
still be processing most of the worlds critical transactions.


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On Friday, July 8, 2022, 3:15 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

Bit of a shock this one. FedEx are closing all of their data centers and moving 
to Microsofts Azure Cloud. They are a massive mainframe customer and close 
friends of ours for a long time.
We had one of their guys on the floor in our office working with us on 
solutions. Times are changing...

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/05/fedex_to_close_all_datacenters/__;!!GryZGb6B1VCs0SfC!XOCQuQOnksIMdlrFxJ8cECEoSR8m_nrVlQLOTXISZcNVGB3SdM2S_RwPUaI1ET5j$
 

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Re: FedEx to move entirely to the cloud

[Bill Johnson]

This is hilarious.

The datacenter is dead – at least according to FedEx, which announced plans to 
close its server farms and transition completely to the cloud, where it hopes 
to save an estimated $400 million annually.

The insinuation being the “cloud” will replace servers. When the reality is, 
FEDEX is simply outsourcing to MSFT. Everything will still be done via servers 
. Data centers are everywhere and are still being built.

Plus, this transition started 2-3 years ago. Most of FEDEX’s workload was long 
gone from the mainframe.

Certain people on here salivate when the mainframe loses a customer. Including 
the quasi journalists at the Register. 20 years from now, the mainframe will 
still be processing most of the worlds critical transactions.


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On Friday, July 8, 2022, 3:15 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

Bit of a shock this one. FedEx are closing all of their data centers and 
moving to Microsofts Azure Cloud. They are a massive mainframe customer 
and close friends of ours for a long time.
We had one of their guys on the floor in our office working with us on 
solutions. Times are changing...

https://www.theregister.com/2022/07/05/fedex_to_close_all_datacenters/

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Re: FedEx to move entirely to the cloud

[Bill Johnson]

True. But that’s capitalism. Where money is worshipped and workers are 
expendable. It’s time unions made a comeback.


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On Friday, July 8, 2022, 5:28 AM, Ronald Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

And the winner is...top 1%

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
David Crayford
Sent: Friday, July 8, 2022 2:15 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: FedEx to move entirely to the cloud

** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **


Bit of a shock this one. FedEx are closing all of their data centers and moving 
to Microsofts Azure Cloud. They are a massive mainframe customer and close 
friends of ours for a long time.
We had one of their guys on the floor in our office working with us on 
solutions. Times are changing...

https://nam12.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2022%2F07%2F05%2Ffedex_to_close_all_datacenters%2F=05%7C01%7CRon.Wells%40OMF.COM%7Cbe7851c892664b23c49a08da60b19d52%7C57c0053cb5f84a1e8bb6e8afa09f3b82%7C0%7C0%7C637928613219913106%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=V9XuXONb2yG9OSNn7lh3fCrPLG%2FWB9nAhmctJdKd2vU%3D=0

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Re: z/OS TWS Late work

[Bill Johnson]

Initiators active and set up for correct class?


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On Saturday, July 2, 2022, 12:35 PM, Shaffer, Terri 
<017d5f778222-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I was wondering if anyone can please point me into the right direction for why 
my TWS scheduler stopped scheduling work?

My last IPL was in February and been running perfect until 3 days ago. Now 
everything is waiting.

I have restarted my TWS and same results, so something else happened but not 
sure where to look?

My Daily and LTP are current and I can manually run to extend.  I can see the 
jobs waiting, by they never release?

I can manually release them and they work but not automatically.

I made sure job submission for HZ was active, but something else is wrong and 
not sure where to look.

And the message manual doesn’t give any hints, what else can I look for

EQQE037I JOB BBASPG2 (        ), OPERATION(0020), IN APPLICATION
EQQE037I ATOSSPGOPR2    , IS LATE, WORK STATION = ATOS, IA = 2207020115
EQQE037I JOB BBASPG2 (        ), OPERATION(0030), IN APPLICATION
EQQE037I ATOSSPGOPR2    , IS LATE, WORK STATION = ATOS, IA = 2207020115
EQQE037I JOB BBADASD1(        ), OPERATION(0010), IN APPLICATION
EQQE037I ATOSDSSDAILY1  , IS LATE, WORK STATION = ATOS, IA = 2207020800
EQQE037I JOB BBALOGD2(        ), OPERATION(0030), IN APPLICATION
EQQE037I ATOSSYSLOG      , IS LATE, WORK STATION = ATOS, IA = 2207020755
EQQE037I JOB BBADASD2(        ), OPERATION(0010), IN APPLICATION
EQQE037I ATOSDSSDAILY2  , IS LATE, WORK STATION = ATOS, IA = 2207020830

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide – Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

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Re: ] Re: "A Rexx" (or "A REXX")

[Bill Johnson]

German has 3 genders. Der, die, das. (Masculine, feminine, neuter) Plus, some 
nouns you’d expect to be neuter are not. Der Wagon (car) for instance.


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On Friday, June 10, 2022, 10:36 AM, zMan  wrote:

Glad to see this has stayed on topic. /s

On Fri, Jun 10, 2022 at 10:02 AM Mohammad Khan  wrote:

> I guess the yearning is for something like Persian which mostly disregards
> gender. Its third person singular pronoun "oo" ( pronounced like too
> without t) covers he, she and it.  It even uses borrowed Arabic words,
> which are gender specific in the original, for all genders.
>
> MKK
>
>
> On Thu, 9 Jun 2022 18:26:06 -0400, Bob Bridges 
> wrote:
>
> >That's mostly true.  But that's the neuter gender, which in English we
> apply
> >mostly to inanimate objects.
> >
> >Not exclusively, though.  Pet owners usually say "he" or "she" of their
> >mammals, but we usually say "it" of an animal whose sex we don't know or
> >don't care about ("it bit me!").  Some inanimate objects take "he" or
> "she".
> >And until recently human children were properly "it", grammatically
> >speaking, though nowadays that's become unpopular.
> >
> >---
> >Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> >/* The cities are for money but the high-up hills are purely for the soul.
> >-from _Galloway_ by Louis L'Amour */
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of
> >Seymour J Metz
> >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 16:50
> >
> >Neuter singular pronouns for living beings. "They" and "them" are
> nominally
> >plural in contemporary English, while "it" only applies to inanimate
> >objects.
> >
> >
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf
> of
> >Bob Bridges [robhbrid...@gmail.com]
> >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 3:54 PM
> >
> >Wait a moment, Shmuel:  English still has the neuter.  In fact ~most~ of
> our
> >nouns are neuter, barring only a few exceptions, unlike the Romance
> >languages which have only masculine and feminine.  In English, almost
> every
> >non-human noun and a handful of human ones are "it".  What did you mean to
> >say?
> >
> >-Original Message-
> >From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of
> >Seymour J Metz
> >Sent: Thursday, June 9, 2022 11:44
> >
> >Now, I could make a case that we would be better off had we retained the
> >neuter gender.
> >
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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

It’s collusion & illegal.
Collusion is a non-competitive, secret, and sometimes illegal agreement between 
rivals which attempts to disrupt the market's equilibrium.
He always bashes IBM. It’s his MO.
IBM will win on appeal. 


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On Friday, June 3, 2022, 11:10 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

No, you don't know his agenda. While I expect this to be overturned on appeal, 
he is correct that AT is not a party to the suit, although I wouldn't be 
surprised if they filed a friend off the court brief.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 11:06 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

It’s AT’s shop. They decided they wanted IBM’s products instead of BMC. 
Imagine your shop with multiple vendors where the vendors decide not to replace 
each others software. THATS illegal. Restraint of trade. I guarantee it’ll be 
overturned. But, we know your agenda. You’re an IBM hater.


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On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:55 AM, zMan  wrote:

Um. AT's approval or otherwise isn't relevant. They're not a party to
this.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 10:41 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I doubt IBM acted without the approval of AT
>
> IBM rejected the decision and said it intends to appeal the ruling.
>
> "This verdict is entirely unsupported by fact and law, and IBM intends to
> pursue complete reversal on appeal," IBM said in an emailed statement. "IBM
> acted in good faith in every respect in this engagement. The decision to
> remove BMC Software technology from its mainframes rested solely with AT,
> as was recognized by the court and confirmed in testimony from AT
> representatives admitted at trial." ®
>
> It’ll be reversed.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:37 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1xJhnZCNeW7_rNin7h4BrhTJh2FKKfaVZoJRtvyBUBiorGShjv3uXoDQVoj41wa3xbw9Du5kLyl_Z3H3CSox90qbGwoIudpZ9NwBtsj0xdkoDwvmWOquUzQkeFu0AfjrJ2a_9BgRpXLwr3VwahvERxN-Sigw6qYPotjrQB1e8apAXdF06ZWmt8Utbx-iG-DexdrckZDein6ub17mp1YDhbqO1SAqXIcnFIEi7D3teVf_BD08Z0ExjAKiuqRgKYRVThnXwEQGOFJ9UgZ9Tb_YaOrL2oXOs1ZrptDwMQlr-VG6JvZbNDruBTpXDD3UzLKzQm4TAb1zyCIJUTC98FZWNgnXqsJJ6D2CZC_AYuRh0HTFU0oSyWJBlzBvExCGziJFd5zJBgqxEgiADr10VcdQ6ekazrWhbLwueSB365b0dFRBk0WCNaG1ot_3VIgEOCOog/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2022%2F05%2F31%2Fibm_ordered_to_pay_16%2F
>
> Tsk. IBM appears to have been caught red-handed here.
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

I doubt IBM acted without the approval of AT

IBM rejected the decision and said it intends to appeal the ruling.

"This verdict is entirely unsupported by fact and law, and IBM intends to 
pursue complete reversal on appeal," IBM said in an emailed statement. "IBM 
acted in good faith in every respect in this engagement. The decision to remove 
BMC Software technology from its mainframes rested solely with AT, as was 
recognized by the court and confirmed in testimony from AT representatives 
admitted at trial." ®

It’ll be reversed.


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On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:37 AM, zMan  wrote:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/31/ibm_ordered_to_pay_16/

Tsk. IBM appears to have been caught red-handed here.
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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

It’s AT’s shop. They decided they wanted IBM’s products instead of BMC. 
Imagine your shop with multiple vendors where the vendors decide not to replace 
each others software. THATS illegal. Restraint of trade. I guarantee it’ll be 
overturned. But, we know your agenda. You’re an IBM hater.


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On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:55 AM, zMan  wrote:

Um. AT's approval or otherwise isn't relevant. They're not a party to
this.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 10:41 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I doubt IBM acted without the approval of AT
>
> IBM rejected the decision and said it intends to appeal the ruling.
>
> "This verdict is entirely unsupported by fact and law, and IBM intends to
> pursue complete reversal on appeal," IBM said in an emailed statement. "IBM
> acted in good faith in every respect in this engagement. The decision to
> remove BMC Software technology from its mainframes rested solely with AT,
> as was recognized by the court and confirmed in testimony from AT
> representatives admitted at trial." ®
>
> It’ll be reversed.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:37 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/31/ibm_ordered_to_pay_16/
>
> Tsk. IBM appears to have been caught red-handed here.
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
> --
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>
>
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-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

First off, I didn’t say YOU were a disgruntled ex IBM worker. Just that there 
are a plethora of them. IBM was even sued by some over the years. Age 
discrimination, if I’m not mistaken was a big reason. Which could explain why 
so many here are anti IBM.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, June 6, 2022, 12:21 AM, g...@gabegold.com  wrote:

I left IBM in 1971 after working there three years. It was a great first job 
and I left on wonderful terms, was invited to return after getting real-world 
(that is, customer) experience. Three years, of course, meant that IBM's 
pension plan/benefits weren't relevant to me. I got plenty of customer -- and 
then ISV -- experience though neglected to return. But as a customer and then 
ISV executive I had a rewarding decades-long relationship with IBM, including, 
for a few years, editing and writing a technology magazine for them. So 
speculating that I'm in any way motivated as a disgruntled ex-IBMer is 
laughable.

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Re: IBM vs Global Foundries

[Bill Johnson]

That’s old. In April, the lawsuit was reinstated.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 11:01 PM, Mike Schwab  
wrote:

https://www.timesunion.com/business/article/Judge-tosses-IBM-s-fraud-claims-against-16464321.php

A fraud claim by IBM against Global Foundries was dropped.

A counter claim by Global Foundries against IBM was dropped.

2015, IBM and Global Foundries reached an agreement.  Two IBM chip
plants, US$1.5B, and IBM employees went to Global Foundries in order
to upgrade plants to produce 7 nm chips for IBM.  Equipment at a 14 nm
plant was installed but project halted due to higher than expected
costs.  IBM forced to order 7 nm chips through Samsung.  Lawsuit
ensued.

-- 
Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

LOLOLOLOL, you insulted me. And my logic and facts are spot on. You didn’t even 
know what IBM’s ROE was. I suspect you don’t even understand ROE. Because you 
only mentioned the stock price. Do you know the difference between growth & 
value stocks? You routinely claim things I never said. I’ve got more education 
than most here. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 9:42 PM, g...@gabegold.com  wrote:

Bill, what's your goal in arguing about IBM? To convince people of anything or 
just to rant? Reflexively denying things -- mostly without credible facts or 
logical substance -- and insulting people with whom you disagree, isn't 
effective debating. You just look silly, alienate people, and certainly don't 
change anyone's mind.

If you'd actually gone to law school instead of doing whatever you've done 
since you passed up that opportunity for education, you might have learned how 
to make cogent and perhaps convincing arguments, without personal attacks.

It's a serious question -- what's your goal? Are you achieving it?

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

What’s hilarious is if you google disgruntled IBM employees, there’s a whole 
group of ex IBMers who routinely bash IBM because IBM laid them off or cut 
their benefits. Switching from pensions to 401k was a big cry for many who 
worked there. My bet is many here are in that group. IT workers should have 
unionized decades ago.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 10:33 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

OK, got it -- you're here to rant and insult. Good that it amuses you.

This is pretty far from useful discussion of mainframes -- the reason the rest 
of us are here.

Bye.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

I love when people on this list think they’re know it alls and post something 
so stupid it’s comical. I don’t know how you came up with such asinine 
bullshit, but it’s impressive.***IBM’s ROE over the years has actually 
been decent. 25% trailing 12 months. I suspect ROE is above most of your heads. 
The fact that you only present the stock price as proof of inferior returns is 
hilarious. As for those growth stocks, most have zero earnings, pay no 
dividend, and only survived based upon free money, zero interest rate policy. A 
couple of young bloods here were touting Fintech a few months back. I wonder 
what they think today? I’ve traded IBM stock around earnings but never owned 
it. Fintech and most high flying stocks trading on a multiple of sales have 
gotten crushed this year.***This is often the problem here. People 
unable to understand even simple analysis. I never once said the article was 
full of inaccuracies. The headline was correct and so was the article itself. 
Although the headline was designed to get you to click. Sensationalized and 
just enough information but not too much.***I’m nearly certain it will 
be overturned. The Sherman Antitrust Act prohibits companies from colluding to 
restrict competition in order to fix prices/profits. Also the federal court 
decision was in the southern district court of Texas, where BMC is 
headquartered. (Houston) Often a judge/court will rule with the hometown 
company. I’ve seen it before.I also never said I was a cop. 
Although early on, I thought I wanted to be an FBI agent. I was in LE in 
college. Got a minor in it. Bachelor of Science, majoring in Comp Sci & Math. 
Been in IT for 40. In many capacities & 15 or so companies & consulting. Not 
from Timbuktu University either. And not a 2 year Tech degree for those who 
couldn’t hack a Bachelors degree. But, 20 years ago I thought maybe I’d give 
law a try. Took the LSAT, (law school admissions test) scored extremely well, 
and subsequently received dozens of offers from law schools all over the 
country. So, I think my law knowledge is a tad more than a 
layman's.I don’t worship IBM. Actually, I don’t worship anyone or 
anything. But, the fact is, they process the majority of important transactions 
to this day. Not many tech companies have been around for 111 years & still 
going strong. You can tout Azure or AWS or whatever platform you like. My 
photos are on AWS. So I don’t care if it goes down twice a month. My financial 
& health records however are a tad more important & can’t be down. And aren’t, 
because they’re on a Z.

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 4:30 PM, Gabe Goldberg  wrote:

I don't have a dog in this ridiculous fight -- though I've also lived a career 
based on IBM mainframes, including working for IBM. I long ago sold my shares 
because the company was sadly heading downhill. But I'll chime in anyway. I was 
apparently correct because IBM shares are now at about the price where I sold, 
while other tech companies and the broader markets have increased greatly. I'm 
no more an IBM hater than zMan, just also an experienced observer over decades.

Bill, are you familiar withhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect  
which you've greatly demonstrated? I doubt that everyone on the list would have 
clicked the link zMan supplied but I'm sure that after your tediously arguing 
with the article, everyone has clicked just to see what it's about. So if it's 
misinformation, you've greatly increased its distribution.

Asserting infallibility in predicting outcome of litigation is silly. First, 
you don't have all the facts. Second, you're not qualified on the law. Third, 
you don't know what arguments will be made on the appeal necessary because the 
case has been decided. Fourth, you don't know whether the appeal will be 
accepted. Fifth, if it's accepted, you don't know what appeal judges will 
decide.

You emphasize your qualifications to pontificate on esoteric legal matters 
because 30 years ago you were a cop and back then you were qualified to study 
to be a lawyer? Seriously?

You accuse others of being IBM haters, while you're quite the IBM worshiper. I 
don't see questioning or criticizing IBM as "hating", but your reflexive 
defense of IBM on matters small and large really does come across as worship. 
Ceaselessly arguing that IBM can do no wrong makes your opinions less than 
credible.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 8:54 PM Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Tony thinks IBM is handing over 1.6 billion. Because the judge ordered it.
> In the article it states IBM is going to appeal. Which means they don’t pay
> anything, yet. Once they file a Notice of Appeal, usually within 30 days,
> with documentation of why they think the trial judge was wrong, the appeals
> court will decide whether the case gets hea

Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

Funny nobody mentioned the reinstatement of the 2.5 billion IBM lawsuit against 
GlobalFoundries. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 4, 2022, 10:33 PM, g...@gabegold.com  
wrote:

OK, got it -- you're here to rant and insult. Good that it amuses you.

This is pretty far from useful discussion of mainframes -- the reason the rest 
of us are here.

Bye.

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Re: Is deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com the wrong host for HTTPS PTF downloads?

[Bill Johnson]

I think I hit it exactly at the right time that it was fixed because I tried 
Firefox right after I sent the “Chrome worked” reply and it worked also.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 1:30 PM, Albertus de Wet  wrote:

I placed an order this morning and trying to get the HTTPS JCL from their
website, created a "server refused connection". I opened a call with shopZ
- will see.
Using Chrome - so THAT did not make a difference.

On Thu, Jun 16, 2022 at 10:20 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Switched to Chrome from Firefox and deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com worked.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 12:00 PM, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I ordered COBOL 6.4 yesterday and tried downloading it this morning and it
> appears deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is indeed down.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 11:52 AM, Wendell Lovewell <
> 01e9c0ee0673-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> I'm trying to download service for APAR PH39134 from ShopZ.
>
> I tried installing Java 8 so I could run the JNLP ShopZ provided, but it
> always displays "Server busy, try again later".
>
> I've tried using the RNFJOBH job provided by ShopZ, but I'm getting:
>
> GIM44336S ** AN UNUSUAL CONDITION OCCURRED. GIMJVGET -
> java.net.SocketException: Read failed
>
> I googled & found
> https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com, which
> says "It's not just you-deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is down".
>
> I skimmed a thread here not that long ago about "
> deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com", in which Kurt might have said to use a
> different server---but I can't find it now.
>
> Is "deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com" temporarily unavailable, or has ShopZ
> sent me to the wrong server?
>
> Thanks,
> Wendell
>
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Re: Is deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com the wrong host for HTTPS PTF downloads?

[Bill Johnson]

Switched to Chrome from Firefox and deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com worked.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 12:00 PM, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I ordered COBOL 6.4 yesterday and tried downloading it this morning and it 
appears deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is indeed down.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 11:52 AM, Wendell Lovewell 
<01e9c0ee0673-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I'm trying to download service for APAR PH39134 from ShopZ.  

I tried installing Java 8 so I could run the JNLP ShopZ provided, but it always 
displays "Server busy, try again later".

I've tried using the RNFJOBH job provided by ShopZ, but I'm getting:

GIM44336S ** AN UNUSUAL CONDITION OCCURRED. GIMJVGET - 
java.net.SocketException: Read failed 

I googled & found 
https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com, which says 
"It's not just you-deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is down".

I skimmed a thread here not that long ago about "deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com", 
in which Kurt might have said to use a different server---but I can't find it 
now. 

Is "deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com" temporarily unavailable, or has ShopZ sent me 
to the wrong server? 

Thanks, 
Wendell

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Re: Is deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com the wrong host for HTTPS PTF downloads?

[Bill Johnson]

I ordered COBOL 6.4 yesterday and tried downloading it this morning and it 
appears deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is indeed down.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, June 16, 2022, 11:52 AM, Wendell Lovewell 
<01e9c0ee0673-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I'm trying to download service for APAR PH39134 from ShopZ.  

I tried installing Java 8 so I could run the JNLP ShopZ provided, but it always 
displays "Server busy, try again later".

I've tried using the RNFJOBH job provided by ShopZ, but I'm getting:

GIM44336S ** AN UNUSUAL CONDITION OCCURRED. GIMJVGET - 
java.net.SocketException: Read failed 

I googled & found 
https://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com, which says 
"It's not just you-deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com is down".

I skimmed a thread here not that long ago about "deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com", 
in which Kurt might have said to use a different server---but I can't find it 
now. 

Is "deliverycb-bld.dhe.ibm.com" temporarily unavailable, or has ShopZ sent me 
to the wrong server? 

Thanks, 
Wendell

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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Agree 100%


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 5:12 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
a three-year project to get off the mainframe.

Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.

Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.

Welcome aboard!

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
AWS

As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
succeeding?

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
Mike Schwab 
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
AWS

Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it
outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in
Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just made it
easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.
>
> Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are like
cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other
platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have
guaranteed its place for decades to come.
>
> Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap,
unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage,
emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show stoppers if
they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and
lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.
>
> I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be
perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some idiot
said the mainframe would be history circa 2000.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford 
wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. Where I
> > live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks of
> > their infrastructure to public cloud and have government legislation to
> > do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like most
> > sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with
> > Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. Playing
> > catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+ head
> > start.
> >
>
> Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have decided
> cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like attributing
all
> CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in cloud
> revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER says"cloud" and
> "IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are quite
> difficult to believe without this kind of gameplaying.
>
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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it 
outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in Charlotte, 
Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80’s. The internet just made it easier, and 
less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.

Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today’s cars are like cars 
from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other platforms. 
Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have guaranteed its 
place for decades to come.

Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap, unsecured, 
unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage, emails, instant 
messaging, and many other tasks that aren’t show stoppers if they’re hacked or 
down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and lost almost 200 
million for the pleasure.

I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be perceived as 
negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90’s some idiot said the 
mainframe would be history circa 2000.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan  wrote:

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford  wrote:

> Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. Where I
> live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks of
> their infrastructure to public cloud and have government legislation to
> do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like most
> sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with
> Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.
>
> It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. Playing
> catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+ head
> start.
>

Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have decided
cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like attributing all
CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in cloud
revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER says"cloud" and
"IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are quite
difficult to believe without this kind of gameplaying.

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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

If the AWS, Azure, & other clouds aren’t cheaper than the mainframe, why 
transition? What “benefits” are there on AWS that’s not available on the 
mainframe? Except the lack of security, downtime, and slower speed the public 
clouds give you.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2021-12-23/capital-one-agrees-to-190-million-settlement-in-cyber-lawsuit





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 11:00 AM, kekronbekron 
<02dee3fcae33-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

"Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap, 
unsecured, unreliable, platforms for"
Cloud ain't cheap my friend. The same IBM pricing monstrosity of choices and 
clauses has reborn as cloud pricing for the different components.
We (as in people in general) hear anecdotes of pricing/spend whoopsie from 
cloud a lot, mainly AWS.

On unsecured & unreliable, well... no one can 100% agree to that.
Would you blame IBM if your CICS 5.6 region was setup to run with 3KB EDSA or 
something dumb like that.
Best not to nitpick that exact example, but rather just the point that 
reliability is engineered & a choice.

"... if they’re hacked or down for one of many reasons."
There's no point in picking sides for common problems/goals such as securing 
platforms & networks.

"As Capital One found out and lost almost 200 million for the pleasure."
What happened there?

- KB

--- Original Message ---
On Friday, June 17th, 2022 at 7:15 PM, Ronald Wells 
<02ebc63ff5ef-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> Well put---thank you
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Bill Johnson
>
> Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 8:31 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
> AWS
>
> ** EXTERNAL EMAIL - USE CAUTION **
>
>
> Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it 
> outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in Charlotte, 
> Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80’s. The internet just made it easier, and 
> less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.
>
> Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today’s cars are like cars 
> from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other platforms. 
> Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have guaranteed 
> its place for decades to come.
>
> Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap, 
> unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage, 
> emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren’t show stoppers if 
> they’re hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and 
> lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.
>
> I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be perceived 
> as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90’s some idiot said the 
> mainframe would be history circa 2000.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan zedgarhoo...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford dcrayf...@gmail.com wrote:
>
> > Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. Where
> > I live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks
> > of their infrastructure to public cloud and have government
> > legislation to do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive,
> > although like most sensible enterprises they have gone down the
> > multi-cloud route with Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in 
> > one basket.
> >
> > It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. Playing
> > catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+
> > head start.
>
>
> Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have decided cloud 
> is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like attributing all 
> CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in cloud revenue 
> on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER says"cloud" and "IBM" in the 
> same sentence in the real world, those numbers are quite difficult to believe 
> without this kind of gameplaying.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions, send email to 
> lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instr

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s cloud, 
but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP which acquires 
the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:

I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a tail
a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud" these
days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS. And
CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.

Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!

"Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe emulation" is
closer, only that tends to make us think zPDT, Hercules, et al.; "z/OS
emulation" seems more accurate to me, but isn't the term that folks use, so
it doesn't help at this point. It's a mess.

But none of this discussion, interesting as it is, relates to the fact that
IBM claims to have a cloud presence BUT has chosen to host their offering
in AWS. Those two items are pretty hard to reconcile.

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Don’t really care. I’ll be retired soon. The first time it gets hacked, and it 
will, Jamie will be facing lawsuits that will make the Capital One payout look 
like pocket change. Oh, and I’ve got dozens of stories about planned “upgrades” 
that went awry over the years. I’d bet JPM still runs on a mainframe 10, 20 or 
more years from now. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:47 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

You may want to change banks

 
https://www.paymentsjournal.com/go-big-or-go-home-jpm-will-spend-up-to-12b-to-get-to-the-cloud/amp/

> On 18 Jun 2022, at 01:43, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other 
> than one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be 
> located anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of 
> devices. Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:
> 
> OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
> "banking transactions" implies cloud.
> 
> I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
> running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
> even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
> other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in
>> the world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same
>> thing I can do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end
>> query mechanism.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:
>> 
>> Correct. App <> cloud.
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
>>> cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP
>> which
>>> acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
>>> can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a
>> tail
>>> a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud"
>> these
>>> days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS.
>> And
>>> CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
>>> 
>>> Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
>>> CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
>>> more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
>>> serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!
>>> 
>>> "Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
>>> mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
>>> old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe emulation"
>> is
>>> closer, only that tends to make us think zPDT, Hercules, et al.; "z/OS
>>> emulation" seems more accurate to me, but isn't the term that folks use,
>> so
>>> it doesn't help at this point. It's a mess.
>>> 
>>> But none of this discussion, interesting as it is, relates to the fact
>> that
>>> IBM claims to have a cloud presence BUT has chosen to host their offering
>>> in AWS. Those two items are pretty hard to reconcile.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> zMan -- "I've g

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Here you go. Mainframe jobs you can apply for with JPM.

https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/jpmorgan-chase-mainframe-jobs

Be careful however because LinkedIn has some serious scam issues. Likely 
because it’s on the cloud.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp-video/mmvo142340677837






Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:47 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

You may want to change banks

 
https://www.paymentsjournal.com/go-big-or-go-home-jpm-will-spend-up-to-12b-to-get-to-the-cloud/amp/

> On 18 Jun 2022, at 01:43, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other 
> than one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be 
> located anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of 
> devices. Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:
> 
> OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
> "banking transactions" implies cloud.
> 
> I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
> running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
> even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
> other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.
> 
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>> I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in
>> the world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same
>> thing I can do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end
>> query mechanism.
>> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:
>> 
>> Correct. App <> cloud.
>> 
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>> 
>>> So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
>>> cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP
>> which
>>> acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>> 
>>> 
>>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>> 
>>> I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
>>> can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a
>> tail
>>> a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud"
>> these
>>> days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS.
>> And
>>> CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
>>> 
>>> Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
>>> CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
>>> more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
>>> serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!
>>> 
>>> "Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
>>> mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
>>> old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe emulation"
>> is
>>> closer, only that tends to make us think zPDT, Hercules, et al.; "z/OS
>>> emulation" seems more accurate to me, but isn't the term that folks use,
>> so
>>> it doesn't help at this point. It's a mess.
>>> 
>>> But none of this discussion, interesting as it is, relates to the fact
>> that
>>> IBM claims to have a cloud presence BUT has chosen to host their offering
>>> in AWS. Those two items are pretty hard to reconcile.
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>> 
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afrai

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in the 
world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same thing I can 
do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end query mechanism.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:

Correct. App <> cloud.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
> cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP which
> acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
> can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a tail
> a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud" these
> days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS. And
> CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
>
> Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
> CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
> more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
> serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!
>
> "Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
> mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
> old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe emulation" is
> closer, only that tends to make us think zPDT, Hercules, et al.; "z/OS
> emulation" seems more accurate to me, but isn't the term that folks use, so
> it doesn't help at this point. It's a mess.
>
> But none of this discussion, interesting as it is, relates to the fact that
> IBM claims to have a cloud presence BUT has chosen to host their offering
> in AWS. Those two items are pretty hard to reconcile.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




--
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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other than 
one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be located 
anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of devices. 
Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:

OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
"banking transactions" implies cloud.

I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in
> the world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same
> thing I can do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end
> query mechanism.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> Correct. App <> cloud.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
> > cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP
> which
> > acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
> >
> > I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
> > can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a
> tail
> > a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud"
> these
> > days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS.
> And
> > CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
> >
> > Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
> > CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
> > more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
> > serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!
> >
> > "Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
> > mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
> > old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe emulation"
> is
> > closer, only that tends to make us think zPDT, Hercules, et al.; "z/OS
> > emulation" seems more accurate to me, but isn't the term that folks use,
> so
> > it doesn't help at this point. It's a mess.
> >
> > But none of this discussion, interesting as it is, relates to the fact
> that
> > IBM claims to have a cloud presence BUT has chosen to host their offering
> > in AWS. Those two items are pretty hard to reconcile.
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> > send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
> >
>
>
> --
> zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

--
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send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN




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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

The one thing that you and others do is make assumptions that I think companies 
run or should only run on the mainframe. Heck, even 40 years ago we had 
workloads at GM that ran better on other platforms. The Engineering group ran 
on DEC VAX machines. Often called IBM killer back then. Every shop I’ve been 
has run multiple platforms. I’m not anti public cloud. I’ve seen numerous 
claims that the mainframe is dying, none of which came to fruition. And the 
public cloud won’t replace it either.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 2:16 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 18/06/2022 2:02 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Don’t really care. I’ll be retired soon. The first time it gets hacked, and 
> it will, Jamie will be facing lawsuits that will make the Capital One payout 
> look like pocket change.

JP Morgan Chase already run significant workloads on multi-cloud (AWS, 
Azure and GCP). All banks do. It's where they do fraud detection, 
analytics and providing caching layers for online transactions.


>  Oh, and I’ve got dozens of stories about planned “upgrades” that went awry 
>over the years.

All platforms suffer outages, Bill. We've flogged this to death already. 
https://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outagehttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outagehttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outagehttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outagehttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outagehttps://lmgtfy.app/?q=mainframe+outage


> I’d bet JPM still runs on a mainframe 10, 20 or more years from now.

I certainly hope so as they're one of our customers! It won't stop them 
trying to get off though. I heard that ING has moved off. It's always 
depressing when a financial services giant leaves the platform.


>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:47 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> You may want to change banks
>
>  
>https://www.paymentsjournal.com/go-big-or-go-home-jpm-will-spend-up-to-12b-to-get-to-the-cloud/amp/
>
>> On 18 Jun 2022, at 01:43, Bill 
>> Johnson<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>  wrote:
>>
>> What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other 
>> than one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be 
>> located anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of 
>> devices. Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
>> "banking transactions" implies cloud.
>>
>> I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
>> running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
>> even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
>> other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in
>>> the world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same
>>> thing I can do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end
>>> query mechanism.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct. App <> cloud.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
>>>> cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP
>>> which
>>>> acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>>> I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
>>>> can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a
>>> tail
>>>> a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud"
>>> these
>>>> days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS.
>>> And
>>>> CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
>>>> CI

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

I’ve had at least a dozen credit cards compromised in the last 20 years. 
Including JPM. So much for the great non mainframe security & fraud protection. 
With credit cards, I’m not on the hook for anything, and they send me a new 
card overnight. Not true of debit cards. Your losses can be infinite. 

I get hundreds of spam emails on Yahoo daily. But, it’s not my main email 
service. It’s disposable. No fear whatsoever. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 2:28 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 18/06/2022 2:20 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Here you go. Mainframe jobs you can apply for with JPM.

LOLZ! What's that got to do with anything?

>
> https://www.linkedin.com/jobs/jpmorgan-chase-mainframe-jobs
>
> Be careful however because LinkedIn has some serious scam issues. Likely 
> because it’s on the cloud.

If you fear the cloud so much then stop using Yahoo mail, your bank 
cards, entertainment services such as Netflix. Stock up on rations and 
batton down the hatches and bunker down ;)

Do you worry that using a cloud based service like Yahoo mail may 
compromise your cellphone?

>
> https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp-video/mmvo142340677837
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:47 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> You may want to change banks
>
>  
>https://www.paymentsjournal.com/go-big-or-go-home-jpm-will-spend-up-to-12b-to-get-to-the-cloud/amp/
>
>> On 18 Jun 2022, at 01:43, Bill Johnson 
>> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other 
>> than one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be 
>> located anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of 
>> devices. Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
>> "banking transactions" implies cloud.
>>
>> I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
>> running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
>> even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
>> other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>> I never said APP = Cloud. I can get my banking transactions anywhere in
>>> the world from JPM wherever their mainframe is located. The exact same
>>> thing I can do with Capital One via AWS. The APPS are just the front end
>>> query mechanism.
>>>
>>>
>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:22 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>>
>>> Correct. App <> cloud.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:04 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>
>>>> So if I get my banking transactions by Capital One APP via AWS, that’s
>>>> cloud, but if I get those same banking transactions via JP Morgan APP
>>> which
>>>> acquires the records via CICS transaction from DB2 that’s not cloud?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 12:56 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>>> I'm highly suspicious of cloud in general, don't get me wrong. But IBM
>>>> can't just call CICS "cloud" and expect it to mean anything. Calling a
>>> tail
>>>> a leg doesn't make it one: when the rest of the industry says "cloud"
>>> these
>>>> days, they don't just mean outsourcing, and definitely don't mean CICS.
>>> And
>>>> CICS isn't a synonym for outsourcing in any case.
>>>>
>>>> Actually, if you think of cloud services in terms of HTTPS transactions,
>>>> CICS isn't that far off in some ways--but it still isn't the same thing,
>>>> more an older, pre-Internet version of something similar. Yes, CICS can
>>>> serve web pages; that doesn't make CICS = cloud!
>>>>
>>>> "Mainframe modernization" is a pretty bogus term, nicely loaded: "Hmm, if
>>>> mainframe modernization exists, mainframes must be
>>>> old-fashioned/obsolete/behind". Wrong, as we know. "Mainframe em

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

The debit card loss is max $500 as long as you report it stolen within 60 days. 
After 60, unlimited. Agree with you about never having one.

https://consumer.ftc.gov/articles/lost-or-stolen-credit-atm-debit-cards#limit





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 5:20 PM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

In the US, under certain circumstances, there is a $50 cap on fraud losses with 
credit cards but the cap for debit cards is $500. That's why I don't have a 
debit card and don't plan to eveer have one, absent a change in the law.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Friday, June 17, 2022 2:38 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

I’ve had at least a dozen credit cards compromised in the last 20 years. 
Including JPM. So much for the great non mainframe security & fraud protection. 
With credit cards, I’m not on the hook for anything, and they send me a new 
card overnight. Not true of debit cards. Your losses can be infinite.

I get hundreds of spam emails on Yahoo daily. But, it’s not my main email 
service. It’s disposable. No fear whatsoever.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 17, 2022, 2:28 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 18/06/2022 2:20 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Here you go. Mainframe jobs you can apply for with JPM.

LOLZ! What's that got to do with anything?

>
> https://nam11.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.linkedin.com%2Fjobs%2Fjpmorgan-chase-mainframe-jobs=05%7C01%7Csmetz3%40gmu.edu%7C109ae79c43904311d62a08da5090aeee%7C9e857255df574c47a0c00546460380cb%7C0%7C0%7C637910879605962349%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=yYAASp4mw4TJ42sKULa0rHxhJb8AQELopufXRI8TeAo%3D=0
>
> Be careful however because LinkedIn has some serious scam issues. Likely 
> because it’s on the cloud.

If you fear the cloud so much then stop using Yahoo mail, your bank
cards, entertainment services such as Netflix. Stock up on rations and
batton down the hatches and bunker down ;)

Do you worry that using a cloud based service like Yahoo mail may
compromise your cellphone?

>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1a-kk_waopn-qFFy4YKhpV3UFGHUrt4JHRFYT1D0tsvgsqPegeIx45CYbmjqCuigB4N32lo-7AbIf9o6d5qh9dTC9w8L_xCSEtGfZ8NuuGIoH4hjhPZCEV6n2J2R8B_W0zbJmQ9FvbmuoAx5Y_RtWns6XAKayOaiLX_Pv2SskmqOgCAfTPUcjYantSHJgRMhQ52joduKdQQvJzuYTIFWlamhm0lQMMZv7pE6Zw74SXh6MKZ16a6bwV5qJ9VkTkAuSekObuC4lKZaLTvsJ-rgH4HGfkcJqRt3Yng0VRxUXB6YtjEgn9sMQgyBje56hFAGIdEbAQ8aG-pk7fkyjU93cMDvQ5dcJsZ6aulgzoRxst5VVbifBYBNOoACBaBj1TDuaDhTA8tunTjIZxfZV4mxA63bPRIwDjqHOe7rjpZSLt0x9K9TF7kKPSkCa5Vz1Lk8z/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.nbcnews.com%2Fnews%2Famp-video%2Fmmvo142340677837
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:47 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> You may want to change banks
>
>  
>https://secure-web.cisco.com/1goea_KQlIeBiuE1E0ONqZkBMp6kCM8xtTUHA4YZz5yRuizz3TYILb6zuWEezekeE8806rWBnuZFce_qrnsD56zApoSQ1XE0eAwcWoAvNNW-fjQE1TFfX1lWTdi5cNkMOAd0EuL6qUz5Q9qqt-Q3nrpYVeDS_6bKbLEjqWsuT6OK9ts2sAejMVrC2Osg8ZlqmbCTeLXZisbba0Eskx8TDqdHarp8eGJKOEkouUjlGEG4heNfKteCCHy2gjpkIA18q0jycDZXNPGQd9b0d25VSnRatuL3OS0BeH0XByISclqhoehUX7x8uJmXx4FaJ6PkP0dG1I0HUoKjL2j5TtGPMi2DDme8gWc3JS3KQujw4BstYZmMp8kXoyBb5VWtRF_g-FtJUWJ7rUu4TBUjaeifNbb15t1KxFvKGjdfBkdt5iNXUodWvo-3KSB856AP8vz3-/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.paymentsjournal.com%2Fgo-big-or-go-home-jpm-will-spend-up-to-12b-to-get-to-the-cloud%2Famp%2F
>
>> On 18 Jun 2022, at 01:43, Bill Johnson 
>> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>> What’s the difference between JPM’s mainframe and Capital One’s AWS? Other 
>> than one is fast, reliable, and secure and the other is not. Both can be 
>> located anywhere in the world and accessed from anywhere via all kinds of 
>> devices. Explain the difference. What makes one a cloud and not the other?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Friday, June 17, 2022, 1:36 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> OK...that was the commonality. Either that or you were suggesting that
>> "banking transactions" implies cloud.
>>
>> I saw no "cloud" in anything you listed other than that one bank was
>> running their stuff in AWS. Viewed through that lens, the question doesn't
>> even make sense: "Is this thing that IS in the cloud different from this
>> other thing that's not in the cloud?" Well, yes.
>>
>>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 1:30 PM Bill Johnson <
>>> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>>

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

If you’re here for opinions, you’ve come to the right place.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Saturday, June 18, 2022, 5:23 PM, Enzo D'Amato  
wrote:

I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were thinking. 
I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get off the 
mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on it in the 
first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix it.

Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills 
mailto:charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:

I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
a three-year project to get off the mainframe.

Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.

Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.

Welcome aboard!

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
AWS

As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
succeeding?


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
Mike Schwab 
Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
AWS

Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.

On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

 Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it
outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in
Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just made it
easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.

 Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are like
cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other
platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have
guaranteed its place for decades to come.

 Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap,
unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage,
emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show stoppers if
they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and
lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.

 I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be
perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some idiot
said the mainframe would be history circa 2000.


 Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


 On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan  wrote:

 On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford 
wrote:

 Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. Where I
 live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks of
 their infrastructure to public cloud and have government legislation to
 do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like most
 sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with
 Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.

 It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. Playing
 catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+ head
 start.


 Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have decided
 cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like attributing
all
 CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in cloud
 revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER says"cloud" and
 "IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are quite
 difficult to believe wi

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

 CVS has 24 hour pharmacies. So does Walgreens and Rite Aid. We have a 24 hour 
Walgreens 2 miles from my house. Not all retail pharmacies are open 24 hours, 
but there are numerous ones in most cities. But, every hospital has a pharmacy 
that IS open 24 by 7. I've worked in health care for about 20 years of my 40 in 
IT. You need to have access to drugs at all times. Or people die.

On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 06:51:59 AM EDT, Seymour J Metz 
 wrote:  
 
 Perhaps some are: CVS isn't.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 4:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

Most mainframes store transactions and process in batch? Are you the same guy 
who didn’t know pharmacies are open 24 by 7?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:03 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with input from 
> cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..

What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
a simple REST API using HTTP
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1cVCppuTlJ_nNLCyIpfi-pFWBClb6lq0nQl_7E--OgnADnbuDkYX8bcjtN6oIQ16B7sRfQ6OOuKQq5QEsgUNf1wFNw-vDdy4M0iIKKAuBN963Nz6gCY1jLEhKQkGKEoyGO9Z-wZYLbalLh_6t-yXF0tJt57oapuTFDOrG3GFsopnPGoLuZ4lhsE-QLh8nA4FrboD8IlzLKjbPsQj-pX4nCx-5TqIo8psGz3mESLroERbYAiILA7fDZwB43yTbn-VzeobnA6ekc_rpFTqhR0IQ5Sh4Edlu7N1EUQ58yn28hGb_a0yq75xJMnQiCxA0sU1Si67g84Rll_yCyt27ggj4mSC-Y501bGnMLip29-0IurTidywtHtLuc7WbjeLeon2CRuFO9mcnFZ5ZFvA_KT8equXAEbZ7tPu1HS-0BD6cCWjPwQggcoAS7FwZRvM34g_d/https%3A%2F%2Fnppa.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F10%2FNPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf.
It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
 From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
decades ago for very different hardware platforms.


> It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run batch.

I have no idea what you mean?

>
> Cynical? Moi?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
> AWS
>
> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
>> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
>> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
>> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
>> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix 
>> it.
> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi,
> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so
> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive
> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
>
> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnLapWhhCKvytdzs7EJTvNZ2qbU8xwCdBEl1UkUuL-jHHZLk6xJPxAadVRWP1nuLz8i5AZrfvDI8u8rZ0V0DT77_Uvu8klHLbL9xe2qaYi1P6a6mc8r9Aj2jothGC-CR9cbCgb-JVXupgin9Uct

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Aren’t you the guy who thought Pharmacies weren’t open 24 by 7? Metz is right, 
if you think the mainframe is a batch machine, you’ve got zero credibility.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 4:51 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 20/06/2022 4:21 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Most mainframes store transactions and process in batch? Are you the same guy 
> who didn’t know pharmacies are open 24 by 7?

Go and have a nap Bill. And don't forget to take your meds when you wake up.


>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:03 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>> Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with input 
>> from cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..
> What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
> real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
> store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
> case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
> can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
> the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
> payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
> a simple REST API using HTTP
> https://nppa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf.
> It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
>  From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
> then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
> micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
> Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
> why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
> decades ago for very different hardware platforms.
>
>
>> It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run batch.
> I have no idea what you mean?
>
>> Cynical? Moi?
>>
>>
>> --
>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>>
>> 
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
>> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
>> AWS
>>
>> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
>>> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
>>> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
>>> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
>>> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix 
>>> it.
>> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
>> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
>> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
>> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
>> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
>> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
>> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi,
>> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so
>> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive
>> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
>> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
>>
>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnLapWhhCKvytdzs7EJTvNZ2qbU8xwCdBEl1UkUuL-jHHZLk6xJPxAadVRWP1nuLz8i5AZrfvDI8u8rZ0V0DT77_Uvu8klHLbL9xe2qaYi1P6a6mc8r9Aj2jothGC-CR9cbCgb-JVXupgin9UctH5C_iVMyn_T-9jzZjtNyZDETxb8hXMU-BOuUz89MGu1nniZJ2tvSSN8yh5A6K-_It8fA10UFCfSBhOB0NVkwKL5M8A2BxZ9_e111GnxGK_PAbj0wh5fvU/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.theregister.com%2F2016%2F07%2F01%2Fing_mainframe_strategy%2F
>>  <- read
>> the comments section. It's hilarious :)
>>
>> The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the
>> last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to
>> retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep
>> subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want
>> to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why
>> invest 3-4 years learning a language that is us

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

How’s the Fintech stocks working for you? Most of them are going under.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 8:26 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

Did he say that are are you putting words into his mouth? Either way I don’t 
care. He’s been retired for years so his knowledge of the mainframe is frozen 
in time. If you’re not at the coalface you loose touch. 

> On 20 Jun 2022, at 8:19 am, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Aren’t you the guy who thought Pharmacies weren’t open 24 by 7? Metz is 
> right, if you think the mainframe is a batch machine, you’ve got zero 
> credibility.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 4:51 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
>> On 20/06/2022 4:21 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Most mainframes store transactions and process in batch? Are you the same 
>> guy who didn’t know pharmacies are open 24 by 7?
> 
> Go and have a nap Bill. And don't forget to take your meds when you wake up.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:03 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>> Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with input 
>>> from cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..
>> What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
>> real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
>> store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
>> case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
>> can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
>> the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
>> payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
>> a simple REST API using HTTP
>> https://nppa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf.
>> It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
>>  From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
>> then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
>> micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
>> Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
>> why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
>> decades ago for very different hardware platforms.
>> 
>> 
>>> It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run batch.
>> I have no idea what you mean?
>> 
>>> Cynical? Moi?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
>>> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
>>> AWS
>>> 
>>> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
>>>> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
>>>> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
>>>> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running 
>>>> on it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically 
>>>> fix it.
>>> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
>>> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
>>> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
>>> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
>>> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
>>> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
>>> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi,
>>> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so
>>> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive
>>> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
>>> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
>>> 
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnL

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

The mainframe has been a real time machine for decades. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 8:26 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

Did he say that are are you putting words into his mouth? Either way I don’t 
care. He’s been retired for years so his knowledge of the mainframe is frozen 
in time. If you’re not at the coalface you loose touch. 

> On 20 Jun 2022, at 8:19 am, Bill Johnson 
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> Aren’t you the guy who thought Pharmacies weren’t open 24 by 7? Metz is 
> right, if you think the mainframe is a batch machine, you’ve got zero 
> credibility.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 4:51 PM, David Crayford  wrote:
> 
>> On 20/06/2022 4:21 am, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Most mainframes store transactions and process in batch? Are you the same 
>> guy who didn’t know pharmacies are open 24 by 7?
> 
> Go and have a nap Bill. And don't forget to take your meds when you wake up.
> 
> 
>> 
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>> 
>> 
>> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:03 PM, David Crayford  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
>>> Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with input 
>>> from cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..
>> What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
>> real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
>> store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
>> case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
>> can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
>> the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
>> payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
>> a simple REST API using HTTP
>> https://nppa.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2020/10/NPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf.
>> It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
>>  From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
>> then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
>> micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
>> Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
>> why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
>> decades ago for very different hardware platforms.
>> 
>> 
>>> It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run batch.
>> I have no idea what you mean?
>> 
>>> Cynical? Moi?
>>> 
>>> 
>>> --
>>> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
>>> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>>> 
>>> 
>>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
>>> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
>>> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
>>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>>> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
>>> AWS
>>> 
>>> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
>>>> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
>>>> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
>>>> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running 
>>>> on it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically 
>>>> fix it.
>>> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
>>> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
>>> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
>>> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
>>> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
>>> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
>>> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi,
>>> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so
>>> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive
>>> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
>>> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
>>> 
>>> https://secure-web.cisco.com/1GoiNO6FBPSWW0D9FZYVYixer1jsPeSd_xH-wmi6jMOC-onAkZQ4Pkf3c1UMGWbQeEprnkSWa1xGxz4vvn-LF0jVrCFlVVFZKQJ4Jti8nbQ7QchsOxhwNiwluJrdKkQP2nXXHQH2Ut2NNa9VChfVBIDR7Akw4ud6_pIXLAFXO5l73Sv-iLZFNU1MWWnLapWhhCKvytdzs7EJTvNZ2q

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

o.com/1-2iTgedz9DPApFopeywjfCeLAkb4kS8D5gFCEDU1FxvGiDWA4ou6pqJyb1d_hBAvGUBtcA89RrAylX3opaG2YEyDaGkIhptpRdukdHvdGOJNKn5bruFlKlnigitV6PrV4n-6zInQkhkJJdSriM40VeYiNOpB8Pg3nTa5E6k6TTIOXSfdaiQOGk1Y6EXL4Xtu-wkeXJmwaPEZljVo3KuwR0K75lrsX8fDe2f2CjcjvfrM3ruLG4na4zrAU_pR4DViMh7bKBhJ35a94VHU7GR4Vh_mXKaYwtbhwnRJWR8gVkvYjmB2CjTOIxJE52bNN1-82_fpYopX-kZQntDkR4OKjvj-b1AV9yXlGQ3A-eGFbtuCb0_1t2R9tgZ5MqgMbzxGQKIf78I2U_xq8a9qYywx3_OgfQwbeMgd8fiatdC5CbUSlphDlQfSDw9sOErejC7z/https%3A%2F%2Fwww.itnews.com.au%2Fnews%2Fwa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780
>
>> Get BlueMail for 
>> Android<https://secure-web.cisco.com/1bcgENTOsK8XbQ24q-R3ISXJI_yYDqxq2wHDg7brpU3Np08gk-JU47Zv8dYAGOAWnxVTv-NWRXAx9s4JTmUJU07wHFT67zaiAPG32upxzSYnSiKIM6O3YI79ZGti7V-QdCWRtiBxOjLh3oMxNvzCcJgTTW-HQmmeQii1zDdP-GC1Rs0umn7xhevV0-PazdAun8gOm5P8Ld_gCw2UojSyXNKZKfmsqJPnt96XgISsJy9-_K81O2L5O-GDW2nxM7_C00lPjk0sF0iNqPQKNZAhVr0kk4TCoT4ePDBbBBUCUw6KfhxpkkhmUuo549OfnVRHweKCGYhEm5WE9nw-5khsn01oqKJxbv_y6P4BrO5DGw0QG7NfYwbUflAaNRV_ljL51KqrNoQV0AdEetiWauYmab1O_GjVvCOudxDs52JwrFXbWBbqEqxhU7qQ3TS--F13f/https%3A%2F%2Fbluemail.me>
>> On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills 
>> mailto:charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
>>
>> I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
>> a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
>>
>> Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
>> duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
>> and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
>>
>> Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
>> be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
>> and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
>> Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
>> Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
>> leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
>> the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
>> were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
>> IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
>> will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
>>
>> Welcome aboard!
>>
>> Charles
>>
>>
>> -Original Message-
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
>> Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
>> AWS
>>
>> As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
>> mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
>> mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
>> trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
>> succeeding?
>> 
>>
>> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
>> Mike Schwab 
>> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
>> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
>> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
>> AWS
>>
>> Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
>> 4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
>> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>>
>>    Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it
>> outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in
>> Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just made it
>> easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.
>>
>>    Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are like
>> cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other
>> platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have
>> guaranteed its place for decades to come.
>>
>>    Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap,
>> unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage,
>> emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show stoppers if
>> they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and
>> lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.
>>
>>    I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be
>> perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some idiot
>> said th

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

So you’re assuming “pharmacies are open 24 by 7” as ALL but not SOME? Got it. 
But ALL hospital pharmacies ARE open 24 by 7. Actually, it’s why many rural 
hospitals are closing. Too expensive to be available 24 by 7 (pharmacy & 
hospital) in lesser populated and lesser affluent areas.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, June 20, 2022, 7:57 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

"pharmacies are open 24 by 7" is not the same as "some pharmacies are open 24 
by 7" or "most pharmacies are open 24 by 7". My local CVS closes for lunch 
every day. People with medical emergencies are likely to be in a hospital when 
they need a prescription filled, so I don't consider the lunch break to be more 
than a mild nuisance.

I would hope that pharmacies in hospitals would be 24x7, but they are not 
representative of pharmacies at large.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 20, 2022 7:42 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

 CVS has 24 hour pharmacies. So does Walgreens and Rite Aid. We have a 24 hour 
Walgreens 2 miles from my house. Not all retail pharmacies are open 24 hours, 
but there are numerous ones in most cities. But, every hospital has a pharmacy 
that IS open 24 by 7. I've worked in health care for about 20 years of my 40 in 
IT. You need to have access to drugs at all times. Or people die.

    On Monday, June 20, 2022 at 06:51:59 AM EDT, Seymour J Metz 
 wrote:

 Perhaps some are: CVS isn't.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 4:21 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

Most mainframes store transactions and process in batch? Are you the same guy 
who didn’t know pharmacies are open 24 by 7?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:03 PM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 20/06/2022 12:38 am, Seymour J Metz wrote:
> Keep in mind that the mainframe can only do batch processing, with input from 
> cards. It doesn't support anything like CICS, IMS or Sabre..

What have transactional systems like CICS or IMS got to do with
real-time, straight-through processing? Most mainframe transactions
store data that is later processed by batch, typically overnight. In the
case of banking transactions that require inter-bank settlements this
can cause delays of several days. In Australia the government mandated
the NPP (New Payments Platform) which facilities instant payments using
payids, which can be an email address, cellphone numbers etc. The API is
a simple REST API using HTTP
https://secure-web.cisco.com/1cVCppuTlJ_nNLCyIpfi-pFWBClb6lq0nQl_7E--OgnADnbuDkYX8bcjtN6oIQ16B7sRfQ6OOuKQq5QEsgUNf1wFNw-vDdy4M0iIKKAuBN963Nz6gCY1jLEhKQkGKEoyGO9Z-wZYLbalLh_6t-yXF0tJt57oapuTFDOrG3GFsopnPGoLuZ4lhsE-QLh8nA4FrboD8IlzLKjbPsQj-pX4nCx-5TqIo8psGz3mESLroERbYAiILA7fDZwB43yTbn-VzeobnA6ekc_rpFTqhR0IQ5Sh4Edlu7N1EUQ58yn28hGb_a0yq75xJMnQiCxA0sU1Si67g84Rll_yCyt27ggj4mSC-Y501bGnMLip29-0IurTidywtHtLuc7WbjeLeon2CRuFO9mcnFZ5ZFvA_KT8equXAEbZ7tPu1HS-0BD6cCWjPwQggcoAS7FwZRvM34g_d/https%3A%2F%2Fnppa.com.au%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2020%2F10%2FNPP-API-Framework-v4.0-Final.pdf.
It's my understanding that no bank implemented NPP on the mainframe.
 From the presentations I've seen they used CDC to capture writes and
then published events to Kafka, which was fanned out to different
micro-services to do fraud detection, payments, push notifications etc.
Back in the day straight-through processing was a pipe dream which is
why we have overnight batch. It's a relic of applications written
decades ago for very different hardware platforms.


> It's much better to run Linux than to get an IFL, which can only run batch.

I have no idea what you mean?

>
> Cynical? Moi?
>
>
> --
> Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
> http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3
>
> 
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
> David Crayford [dcrayf...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Sunday, June 19, 2022 2:36 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and 
> AWS
>
> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
>> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
>> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
>> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
>> it in the fir

Re: Some UNIX file usage questions

[Bill Johnson]

That’s beautiful. And a pet peeve of mine.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, June 20, 2022, 1:47 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Mon, 20 Jun 2022 at 13:34, David Crayford  wrote:
>
> I could care less about Python.

Could you care a lot less, or just a little bit less? There is surely
quite a range of caring.
Here's a little chart that may help you express how much you care
about Python or anything else.

https://incompetech.com/gallimaufry/care_less.html

Tony H.

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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

 get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
> succeeding?
> 
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
> Mike Schwab 
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
> 4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
>  Cloud - Something the mainframe has been doing for decades. We called it
> outsourcing. GM ran their entire organization out of mainframes in
> Charlotte, Dallas, & perhaps another in the 80's. The internet just made it
> easier, and less secure & reliable. Brought outsourcing to a wider audience.
>
>  Mainframe modernization. An oxymoron. Like saying today's cars are like
> cars from 50 years ago. The mainframe is more advanced than any other
> platforms. Billions of dollars of investment and patented technologies have
> guaranteed its place for decades to come.
>
>  Sure, AWS, Azure, Oracle cloud & numerous others are creating cheap,
> unsecured, unreliable, platforms for small businesses, picture storage,
> emails, instant messaging, and many other tasks that aren't show stoppers if
> they're hacked or down for one of many reasons. As Capital One found out and
> lost almost 200 million for the pleasure.
>
>  I enjoy the glee that many of you exude when IBM has what might be
> perceived as negative news. I saw the same glee when in the 90's some idiot
> said the mainframe would be history circa 2000.
>
>
>  Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>  On Friday, June 17, 2022, 9:06 AM, zMan  wrote:
>
>  On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 5:50 AM David Crayford 
> wrote:
>
>  Maybe it's the case that customers don't want to use IBMs cloud. Where I
>  live in Australia the big four banks are moving significant chunks of
>  their infrastructure to public cloud and have government legislation to
>  do so. NAB in particular have been quite aggressive, although like most
>  sensible enterprises they have gone down the multi-cloud route with
>  Microsoft Azure so they don't have all their eggs in one basket.
>
>  It will be interesting to see if IBM can close the cloud gap. Playing
>  catch-up is difficult when competing with behemoths with a decade+ head
>  start.
>
>
>  Indeed. Word from insiders is that since IBM "management" have decided
>  cloud is The Answer, folks have started playing games, like attributing
> all
>  CICS-related revenue as "cloud". Q4 2020, IBM claimed $6.2B in cloud
>  revenue on total revenue of $16B. Given that nobody EVER says"cloud" and
>  "IBM" in the same sentence in the real world, those numbers are quite
>  difficult to believe without this kind of gameplaying.
>
> 
>
>  For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>  send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>  For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>  send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
> --
> Mike A Schwab, Springfield IL USA
> Where do Forest Rangers go to get away from it all?
>
> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
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> 
>
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
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> --
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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Not in my voracious reading.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 11:11 AM, Tom Brennan  
wrote:

That's the most realistic assessment I've seen.

On 6/18/2022 11:36 PM, David Crayford wrote:

> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's 
> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the 
> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware 
> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event 
> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely 
> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology 
> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi, 
> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so 
> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive 
> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch 
> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read 
> the comments section. It's hilarious :)
> 
> The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the 
> last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to 
> retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep 
> subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want 
> to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why 
> invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to 
> another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.
> 
> In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and 
> significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all 
> gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 
> mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our 
> customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to 
> a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small 
> site to run a mainframe. 
> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780
>   

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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Fintech is causing massive losses. 
https://www.finextra.com/newsarticle/40236/fintech-cheerleader-tiger-global-faces-massive-losses



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 11:11 AM, Tom Brennan  
wrote:

That's the most realistic assessment I've seen.

On 6/18/2022 11:36 PM, David Crayford wrote:

> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's 
> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the 
> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware 
> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event 
> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely 
> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology 
> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi, 
> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so 
> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive 
> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch 
> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read 
> the comments section. It's hilarious :)
> 
> The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the 
> last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to 
> retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep 
> subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want 
> to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why 
> invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to 
> another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.
> 
> In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and 
> significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all 
> gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 
> mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our 
> customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to 
> a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small 
> site to run a mainframe. 
> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780
>   

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Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Bingo. Exactly what I meant. We ran batch and still were available 24 by 7.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 12:04 PM, Don Leahy  wrote:

Running batch does not preclude 24x7 online availability.

On Sun, Jun 19, 2022 at 09:44 Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> People still run batch on the mainframe? The ING CEO needs replaced. Last
> shop I worked at we ran very little batch. Because as a health insurance
> company, we needed to have 24 by 7 by 365 online availability or patients
> die.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:36 AM, David Crayford 
> wrote:
>
> On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
> > I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were
> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get
> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on
> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix
> it.
>
> It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's
> remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the
> platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware
> platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event
> driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely
> coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology
> stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi,
> Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so
> waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive
> disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch
> applications is a VERY heavy lift.
>
> https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read
> the comments section. It's hilarious :)
>
> The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the
> last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to
> retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep
> subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want
> to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why
> invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to
> another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.
>
> In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and
> significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all
> gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30
> mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our
> customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to
> a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small
> site to run a mainframe.
>
> https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780
>
> >
> > Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
> > On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills  charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
> >
> > I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth
> year of
> > a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
> >
> > Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
> > duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is
> near
> > and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
> >
> > Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems
> to
> > be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be
> bigger
> > and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to
> envision
> > Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array
> of
> > Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the
> tea
> > leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
> > the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
> > were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now
> changed.
> > IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
> > will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
> >
> > Welcome aboard!
> >
> > Charles
> >
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> > Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
> > Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM
> and
>

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

People still run batch on the mainframe? The ING CEO needs replaced. Last shop 
I worked at we ran very little batch. Because as a health insurance company, we 
needed to have 24 by 7 by 365 online availability or patients die.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:36 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix it.

It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's 
remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the 
platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware 
platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event 
driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely 
coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology 
stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi, 
Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so 
waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive 
disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch 
applications is a VERY heavy lift.

https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read 
the comments section. It's hilarious :)

The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the 
last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to 
retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep 
subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want 
to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why 
invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to 
another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.

In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and 
significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all 
gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 
mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our 
customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to 
a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small 
site to run a mainframe. 
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780

>
> Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills 
> mailto:charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
>
> I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
> a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
>
> Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
> duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
> and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
>
> Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
> be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
> and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
> Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
> Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
> leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
> the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
> were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
> IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
> will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
> mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
> mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
> trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
> succeeding?
> 
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
> Mike Schwab 
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
> 4-, got it going, and allow

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Fintechs are struggling. Most Fintech stocks are down huge. Losing money hand 
over fist. They’re not even a challenge.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:36 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix it.

It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's 
remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the 
platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware 
platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event 
driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely 
coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology 
stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi, 
Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so 
waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive 
disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch 
applications is a VERY heavy lift.

https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read 
the comments section. It's hilarious :)

The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the 
last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to 
retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep 
subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want 
to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why 
invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to 
another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.

In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and 
significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all 
gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 
mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our 
customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to 
a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small 
site to run a mainframe. 
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780

>
> Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills 
> mailto:charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
>
> I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
> a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
>
> Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
> duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
> and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
>
> Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
> be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
> and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
> Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
> Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
> leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
> the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
> were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
> IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
> will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
> mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
> mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
> trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
> succeeding?
> 
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
> Mike Schwab 
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> Moshix signed up for an AWS instance, loaded up Hercules and Turnkey
> 4-, got it going, and allowed some other people to log in.
>
> On Fri, Jun 17, 2022 at 8:31 AM Bill Johnson
> <004

Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and AWS

[Bill Johnson]

Fintech is a bubble. 
https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2021/11/18/many-signs-that-fintech-is-in-a-bubble-jc-flowers-ceo-says.html

Silicon Valley’s Fintech disruption is only viable with free money and zero 
interest rates.
If offering your paycheck 2 days early is your offering, you’re a scam. A loan 
shark.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, June 19, 2022, 2:36 AM, David Crayford  wrote:

On 19/06/2022 5:23 am, Enzo D'Amato wrote:
> I also agree, but as a non-insider, I wanted to know what others were 
> thinking. I also belive that in most cases, the effort spent trying to get 
> off the mainframe would be better spent actually fixing the code running on 
> it in the first place. Moving around broken code doesn't automatically fix it.

It's not just about fixing broken code. If you read the ING CIO's 
remarks about why they wanted off the mainframe it's not about the 
platform. Nobody denies that mainframes are insanely brilliant hardware 
platforms. ING wanted to get rid of batch and move towards an event 
driven architecture using pub/sub where they can easily deploy loosely 
coupled micro-services to provide cutting edge products. The technology 
stacks are built on open source such as Kafka, MongoDB, Cassandra, NiFi, 
Avro etc.  The retail banking industry has been disrupted by fintechs so 
waiting for an overnight batch schedule for settlements is a competitive 
disadvantage.  Cracking open and modernizing 50-60 year old COBOL batch 
applications is a VERY heavy lift.

https://www.theregister.com/2016/07/01/ing_mainframe_strategy/ <- read 
the comments section. It's hilarious :)

The doubly whammy is there's a skills crisis slowly unraveling. In the 
last year we've had 3 key resources move to 3 day weeks with a view to 
retiring. Replacing highly skilled assembler programmers with deep 
subsystem knowledge is proving to be difficult. Young people don't want 
to learn HLASM as they consider it a dead-end. Their position is "why 
invest 3-4 years learning a language that is useless if you move to 
another industry?" I can't comment about COBOL application developers.

In 10 years time I expect the mainframe to be alive and kicking and 
significantly modernized. The small/medium shops will probably be all 
gone. When I first moved to my current town in 1998 there were 25-30 
mainframe sites. Now there are 3 and 1 is on life support. One of our 
customers re-platformed their CICS/COBOL/Batch applications from a z9 to 
a single blade server. It doesn't make any sense financially for a small 
site to run a mainframe. 
https://www.itnews.com.au/news/wa-insurance-commission-decommissions-mainframe-322780

>
> Get BlueMail for Android<https://bluemail.me>
> On Jun 18, 2022, at 5:13 PM, Charles Mills 
> mailto:charl...@mcn.org>> wrote:
>
> I always like the stories about the companies that are in the eighth year of
> a three-year project to get off the mainframe.
>
> Enzo, my friend, you have just kicked the hornets' nest! You had better
> duck, because the onslaught is coming. "The mainframe is [not] dead" is near
> and dear to the hearts of IBM-MAINers.
>
> Yes, I think the consensus is that the mainframe has a future. IBM seems to
> be focused mainly on the very largest shops, so the trend seems to be bigger
> and bigger machines at fewer and fewer companies. But it is hard to envision
> Bank of America balancing their checking accounts every day on an array of
> Windows servers, in their datacenter or in the cloud. My reading of the tea
> leaves -- I am not an insider -- is that for a long time IBM was *saying*
> the mainframe was here to stay but internally they did not believe it and
> were not making decisions on that basis -- but I think that has now changed.
> IBM appears to have made a HUGE investment in the z16, an investment that
> will take more than 5 or more years to recoup.
>
> Welcome aboard!
>
> Charles
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
> Behalf Of Enzo D'Amato
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 1:56 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> As someone who is new to this field, and hasn't been though a wave of "the
> mainframe is going away" yet, will there still be companies running the
> mainframe 5 or 10 years down the line? Also, when I read about companies
> trying to get off of the mainframe, how often do these efforts end up
> succeeding?
> 
>
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of
> Mike Schwab 
> Sent: Saturday, June 18, 2022 12:04 AM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: Modernize Mainframe Applications for Hybrid Cloud with IBM and
> AWS
>
> Moshix signed up for an A

Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

Exactly. I’m way more concerned with the collusion of 2 software vendors 
agreeing not to cannibalize the others business. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 12:12 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

I am not taking pro- or "bashing" sides here. How can any outsourcer agree not 
to replace product family X with product family Y, and then agree to run a 
datacenter the way a customer wants?

IBM apparently promised BMC they would not unhook their products, and then 
promised AT to do what they wanted ... and apparently what they wanted was to 
unhook BMC products.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of zMan
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 7:37 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

https://www.theregister.com/2022/05/31/ibm_ordered_to_pay_16/

Tsk. IBM appears to have been caught red-handed here.
-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

LOLOLOLOL yeah, you’re a critical thinking master. Anyone with Legal experience 
(me) knows this will be overturned. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 12:59 PM, zMan  wrote:

IBM has supported *me *indirectly since before I was born. Bill mistakes
critical thinking for bias, and reveals his own lack of the former and
excess of the latter instead, alas.

Charles's question is incisive, and reflects IBM's dilemma. However, the
solution would have been to renegotiate or dispute the agreement, not to
unilaterally break it. Whether it's an anticompetitive agreement or not, it
was an agreement. You don't get to say "I think this is invalid and
therefore I'm going to ignore it": that way lies chaos. You instead apply
to a court to have it declared null and void. The fact that IBM with its
legions of lawyers did not go this route suggests (does *not *prove) that
they did not believe they would prevail.

Speculation, based on having worked with AT: I tend to doubt that AT
specifically wanted to unhook BMC products. I suspect IBM said "We can save
you $ by using our versions of these products", and that THAT's what AT
wanted (as would most any customer).

I wonder whether in a future, similar scenario, Kyndryl's independence
might change the equation. Similarly, the large number of products IBM has
silently divested (Optim, Rational, SPSS, more) probably also subtly
changes it, in that the savings may not be as realizable.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 12:37 PM Tom Brennan 
wrote:

> I suspect you'll be called an IBM hater anyway :)  And probably me too
> just for posting on the subject, even though IBM has indirectly
> supported me and my family since 1983.
>

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM will 
now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the headline 
states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 3:09 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 14:16, Charles Mills  wrote:

> Well, #1 we are a bunch of jailhouse lawyers without even the source 
> documents in front of us. Who knows EXACTLY what IBM agreed, or how it is 
> effectively modified by the operation of law, or what exactly transpired 
> between IBM and AT

Indeed. Anyone who has ever seen a program written by a lawyer may
appreciate this. I have seen a few (mostly but not entirely
spreadsheets), and it just reinforces my thinking that lawyers live in
a "differently logical" world from the rest of us. Many of us here
have all kinds of experience dealing with lawyers and contracts (to
say nothing of personal matters), but that kind of "legal experience"
doesn't make us lawyers or even experts.

Looked at another way, "legal reasoning" is a law school topic of
instruction and study, and is generally the thing that we programmers
take to because it most closely resembles programming, and we like to
think that the law is algorithmic in nature. But legal reasoning is
very far from being "the law", and is actually quite a small part of
the education of a lawyer. Applying it other people's cases to
conclude that this or that judgement is correct or will obviously be
overturned is just silly.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

 I don't worship anyone or anything. It sets you up for disappointment. What 
I've said about IBM is this.
1. They've survived 111 years in a industry that spits out companies like a 
baseball player chewing tobacco. Fact.
2. They lead the world in patents. Almost every year. Fact.
3.  Their major platform still is the most secure, fastest, and reliable on the 
planet and they process the vast majority of important transactions. (all 
facts)4. Their lawsuit against GlobalFoundries was reinstated in April. Fact.5. 
The lawsuit with BMC will be overturned. Opinion based upon my knowledge of the 
law.

On Monday, June 6, 2022, 09:53:37 AM EDT, Mohammad Khan 
 wrote:  
 
 Gabe,
With freedom of religion guaranteed in this country, you have no business 
criticizing what or who Bill chooses to worship. 
Regards
MKK


On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 16:29:48 -0400, Gabe Goldberg  wrote:

>I don't have a dog in this ridiculous fight -- though I've also lived a career 
>based on IBM mainframes, including working for IBM. I long ago sold my shares 
>because the company was sadly heading downhill. But I'll chime in anyway. I 
>was apparently correct because IBM shares are now at about the price where I 
>sold, while other tech companies and the broader markets have increased 
>greatly. I'm no more an IBM hater than zMan, just also an experienced observer 
>over decades.
>
>Bill, are you familiar withhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect  
>which you've greatly demonstrated? I doubt that everyone on the list would 
>have clicked the link zMan supplied but I'm sure that after your tediously 
>arguing with the article, everyone has clicked just to see what it's about. So 
>if it's misinformation, you've greatly increased its distribution.
>
>Asserting infallibility in predicting outcome of litigation is silly. First, 
>you don't have all the facts. Second, you're not qualified on the law. Third, 
>you don't know what arguments will be made on the appeal necessary because the 
>case has been decided. Fourth, you don't know whether the appeal will be 
>accepted. Fifth, if it's accepted, you don't know what appeal judges will 
>decide.
>
>You emphasize your qualifications to pontificate on esoteric legal matters 
>because 30 years ago you were a cop and back then you were qualified to study 
>to be a lawyer? Seriously?
>
>You accuse others of being IBM haters, while you're quite the IBM worshiper. I 
>don't see questioning or criticizing IBM as "hating", but your reflexive 
>defense of IBM on matters small and large really does come across as worship. 
>Ceaselessly arguing that IBM can do no wrong makes your opinions less than 
>credible.
>

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

 LOL, and you people said I can't read. I actually said OPINION for 5.

On Monday, June 6, 2022, 10:23:26 AM EDT, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:  
 
 Item 5 is an opinion, not a fact. Do you know what is in the sealed motions? 
Do you know what effect they will have on the final outcome? I expect the 
judgement to be overturned, but the Universe often blows away expectations, and 
there are a lot of jokers in this deck. Even were I privy to all of the data I 
wouldn't be willing to bet on the outcome.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 10:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

 I don't worship anyone or anything. It sets you up for disappointment. What 
I've said about IBM is this.
1. They've survived 111 years in a industry that spits out companies like a 
baseball player chewing tobacco. Fact.
2. They lead the world in patents. Almost every year. Fact.
3.  Their major platform still is the most secure, fastest, and reliable on the 
planet and they process the vast majority of important transactions. (all 
facts)4. Their lawsuit against GlobalFoundries was reinstated in April. Fact.5. 
The lawsuit with BMC will be overturned. Opinion based upon my knowledge of the 
law.

    On Monday, June 6, 2022, 09:53:37 AM EDT, Mohammad Khan 
 wrote:

 Gabe,
With freedom of religion guaranteed in this country, you have no business 
criticizing what or who Bill chooses to worship.
Regards
MKK


On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 16:29:48 -0400, Gabe Goldberg  wrote:

>I don't have a dog in this ridiculous fight -- though I've also lived a career 
>based on IBM mainframes, including working for IBM. I long ago sold my shares 
>because the company was sadly heading downhill. But I'll chime in anyway. I 
>was apparently correct because IBM shares are now at about the price where I 
>sold, while other tech companies and the broader markets have increased 
>greatly. I'm no more an IBM hater than zMan, just also an experienced observer 
>over decades.
>
>Bill, are you familiar 
>withhttps://secure-web.cisco.com/1eYdTjmJHv89ViLHZLJjfadg4E-unGI2a7JhinaolNTp7KHuaep2IZC_gChShakUjMwGKmhgVnbhl-jOFakqpYYoWJV4oEWVttaFSkMeMkBGYVG6cuIGgxADjCFukXBhDJbRC3jVdsY4KOIiTsnb8-UT1iEYTcMdFimF7on0AIDdGYd9S45aL9emrzrNjkfRQ0jdgcxu5PyqU1VMdkzUqtI-X_hkhbUo-Cc35YEWyKT4GTDKgKw5da5z4ZszBdmikiyVaC3Jstn4iCd-oFCTL16feBUYa0hef7Jxh7bEc1O3_EfCnn4Pxa3zoPQDTICW15w6Bue8-79aoQsjSHSVU9pao6PVjNCNzfQinLKMRyAkvd94yELM7z_eoouzQNFJaVx6kzMVrM24g8rzd-svSIzyKtJBKs9cgd6Qf_LFiWjkALsviZedLGbBr0gFpPhmG/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStreisand_effect
>  which you've greatly demonstrated? I doubt that everyone on the list would 
>have clicked the link zMan supplied but I'm sure that after your tediously 
>arguing with the article, everyone has clicked just to see what it's about. So 
>if it's misinformation, you've greatly increased its distribution.
>
>Asserting infallibility in predicting outcome of litigation is silly. First, 
>you don't have all the facts. Second, you're not qualified on the law. Third, 
>you don't know what arguments will be made on the appeal necessary because the 
>case has been decided. Fourth, you don't know whether the appeal will be 
>accepted. Fifth, if it's accepted, you don't know what appeal judges will 
>decide.
>
>You emphasize your qualifications to pontificate on esoteric legal matters 
>because 30 years ago you were a cop and back then you were qualified to study 
>to be a lawyer? Seriously?
>
>You accuse others of being IBM haters, while you're quite the IBM worshiper. I 
>don't see questioning or criticizing IBM as "hating", but your reflexive 
>defense of IBM on matters small and large really does come across as worship. 
>Ceaselessly arguing that IBM can do no wrong makes your opinions less than 
>credible.
>

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

 Are you the TRON guy? If so, everyone needs to google you.

On Monday, June 6, 2022, 10:18:30 AM EDT, Jay Maynard 
 wrote:  
 
 You've made your position abundantly clear, Bill.

Now drop it.

On Mon, Jun 6, 2022 at 9:14 AM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

>  I don't worship anyone or anything. It sets you up for disappointment.
> What I've said about IBM is this.
> 1. They've survived 111 years in a industry that spits out companies like
> a baseball player chewing tobacco. Fact.
> 2. They lead the world in patents. Almost every year. Fact.
> 3.  Their major platform still is the most secure, fastest, and reliable
> on the planet and they process the vast majority of important transactions.
> (all facts)4. Their lawsuit against GlobalFoundries was reinstated in
> April. Fact.5. The lawsuit with BMC will be overturned. Opinion based upon
> my knowledge of the law.
>
>    On Monday, June 6, 2022, 09:53:37 AM EDT, Mohammad Khan <
> mkkha...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>  Gabe,
> With freedom of religion guaranteed in this country, you have no business
> criticizing what or who Bill chooses to worship.
> Regards
> MKK
>
>
> On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 16:29:48 -0400, Gabe Goldberg 
> wrote:
>
> >I don't have a dog in this ridiculous fight -- though I've also lived a
> career based on IBM mainframes, including working for IBM. I long ago sold
> my shares because the company was sadly heading downhill. But I'll chime in
> anyway. I was apparently correct because IBM shares are now at about the
> price where I sold, while other tech companies and the broader markets have
> increased greatly. I'm no more an IBM hater than zMan, just also an
> experienced observer over decades.
> >
> >Bill, are you familiar withhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
> which you've greatly demonstrated? I doubt that everyone on the list would
> have clicked the link zMan supplied but I'm sure that after your tediously
> arguing with the article, everyone has clicked just to see what it's about.
> So if it's misinformation, you've greatly increased its distribution.
> >
> >Asserting infallibility in predicting outcome of litigation is silly.
> First, you don't have all the facts. Second, you're not qualified on the
> law. Third, you don't know what arguments will be made on the appeal
> necessary because the case has been decided. Fourth, you don't know whether
> the appeal will be accepted. Fifth, if it's accepted, you don't know what
> appeal judges will decide.
> >
> >You emphasize your qualifications to pontificate on esoteric legal
> matters because 30 years ago you were a cop and back then you were
> qualified to study to be a lawyer? Seriously?
> >
> >You accuse others of being IBM haters, while you're quite the IBM
> worshiper. I don't see questioning or criticizing IBM as "hating", but your
> reflexive defense of IBM on matters small and large really does come across
> as worship. Ceaselessly arguing that IBM can do no wrong makes your
> opinions less than credible.
> >
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
> --
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> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>


-- 
Jay Maynard

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

It’s the Yahoo free email system. Every fact/opinion was AFTER the statement 
regardless. 5. The lawsuit with BMC will be overturned. Opinion based upon my 
knowledge of the law.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, June 6, 2022, 10:30 AM, Seymour J Metz  wrote:

"Fact.5."

Some people can't remember what they wrote. Now, it may be that you garbled the 
punctuation, but that's a you issue, not a me issue.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 10:25 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

 LOL, and you people said I can't read. I actually said OPINION for 5.

    On Monday, June 6, 2022, 10:23:26 AM EDT, Seymour J Metz  
wrote:

 Item 5 is an opinion, not a fact. Do you know what is in the sealed motions? 
Do you know what effect they will have on the final outcome? I expect the 
judgement to be overturned, but the Universe often blows away expectations, and 
there are a lot of jokers in this deck. Even were I privy to all of the data I 
wouldn't be willing to bet on the outcome.


--
Shmuel (Seymour J.) Metz
http://mason.gmu.edu/~smetz3


From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] on behalf of 
Bill Johnson [0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu]
Sent: Monday, June 6, 2022 10:13 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

 I don't worship anyone or anything. It sets you up for disappointment. What 
I've said about IBM is this.
1. They've survived 111 years in a industry that spits out companies like a 
baseball player chewing tobacco. Fact.
2. They lead the world in patents. Almost every year. Fact.
3.  Their major platform still is the most secure, fastest, and reliable on the 
planet and they process the vast majority of important transactions. (all 
facts)4. Their lawsuit against GlobalFoundries was reinstated in April. Fact.5. 
The lawsuit with BMC will be overturned. Opinion based upon my knowledge of the 
law.

    On Monday, June 6, 2022, 09:53:37 AM EDT, Mohammad Khan 
 wrote:

 Gabe,
With freedom of religion guaranteed in this country, you have no business 
criticizing what or who Bill chooses to worship.
Regards
MKK


On Sat, 4 Jun 2022 16:29:48 -0400, Gabe Goldberg  wrote:

>I don't have a dog in this ridiculous fight -- though I've also lived a career 
>based on IBM mainframes, including working for IBM. I long ago sold my shares 
>because the company was sadly heading downhill. But I'll chime in anyway. I 
>was apparently correct because IBM shares are now at about the price where I 
>sold, while other tech companies and the broader markets have increased 
>greatly. I'm no more an IBM hater than zMan, just also an experienced observer 
>over decades.
>
>Bill, are you familiar 
>withhttps://secure-web.cisco.com/1eYdTjmJHv89ViLHZLJjfadg4E-unGI2a7JhinaolNTp7KHuaep2IZC_gChShakUjMwGKmhgVnbhl-jOFakqpYYoWJV4oEWVttaFSkMeMkBGYVG6cuIGgxADjCFukXBhDJbRC3jVdsY4KOIiTsnb8-UT1iEYTcMdFimF7on0AIDdGYd9S45aL9emrzrNjkfRQ0jdgcxu5PyqU1VMdkzUqtI-X_hkhbUo-Cc35YEWyKT4GTDKgKw5da5z4ZszBdmikiyVaC3Jstn4iCd-oFCTL16feBUYa0hef7Jxh7bEc1O3_EfCnn4Pxa3zoPQDTICW15w6Bue8-79aoQsjSHSVU9pao6PVjNCNzfQinLKMRyAkvd94yELM7z_eoouzQNFJaVx6kzMVrM24g8rzd-svSIzyKtJBKs9cgd6Qf_LFiWjkALsviZedLGbBr0gFpPhmG/https%3A%2F%2Fen.wikipedia.org%2Fwiki%2FStreisand_effect
>  which you've greatly demonstrated? I doubt that everyone on the list would 
>have clicked the link zMan supplied but I'm sure that after your tediously 
>arguing with the article, everyone has clicked just to see what it's about. So 
>if it's misinformation, you've greatly increased its distribution.
>
>Asserting infallibility in predicting outcome of litigation is silly. First, 
>you don't have all the facts. Second, you're not qualified on the law. Third, 
>you don't know what arguments will be made on the appeal necessary because the 
>case has been decided. Fourth, you don't know whether the appeal will be 
>accepted. Fifth, if it's accepted, you don't know what appeal judges will 
>decide.
>
>You emphasize your qualifications to pontificate on esoteric legal matters 
>because 30 years ago you were a cop and back then you were qualified to study 
>to be a lawyer? Seriously?
>
>You accuse others of being IBM haters, while you're quite the IBM worshiper. I 
>don't see questioning or criticizing IBM as "hating", but your reflexive 
>defense of IBM on matters small and large really does come across as worship. 
>Ceaselessly arguing that IBM can do no wrong makes your opinions less than 
>credible.
>

--
For IBM-MAIN subsc

Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

And they’re appealing. So no payment will be made yet. Do you not understand 
how courts work?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 5:09 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM 
> will now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the 
> headline states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.

Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".

Tony H.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

I read just fine. There’s more than just the headline.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 6:58 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 17:11, Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> And they’re appealing. So no payment will be made yet. Do you not understand 
> how courts work?

Do you not understand how to read?

Tony H.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

Explain it to me Bob. I gotta hear this.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 8:02 PM, Bob Bridges  wrote:

No, Bill, you don't, or at least you didn't in this case.  I don’t mind 
explaining it to you, if you really missed it.  If you don't care, I'll leave 
it.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* The cities are for money but the high-up hills are purely for the soul.  
-from _Galloway_ by Louis L'Amour */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 19:03

I read just fine. There’s more than just the headline.

--- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 6:58 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:
Do you not understand how to read?

--- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 17:11, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> And they’re appealing. So no payment will be made yet. Do you not understand 
> how courts work?

--- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 5:09 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:
Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".

--- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM 
> will now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the 
> headline states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

Tony thinks IBM is handing over 1.6 billion. Because the judge ordered it. In 
the article it states IBM is going to appeal. Which means they don’t pay 
anything, yet. Once they file a Notice of Appeal, usually within 30 days, with 
documentation of why they think the trial judge was wrong, the appeals court 
will decide whether the case gets heard. (Very likely) It gets scheduled, might 
be a while, and the appeals court might overturn or uphold the judgment. If 
upheld, IBM can appeal further. If overturned, BMC can appeal. Meanwhile, BMC & 
IBM can negotiate a settlement while the appeals play out. It could take years. 
No money changes hands while it plays out. No matter what the judge said.
I was in law enforcement and was going to be a lawyer about 20 years ago. Took 
the LSAT, passed with flying colors and was offered seats at a number of law 
schools nationwide. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 9:34 PM, Bob Bridges  wrote:

Well, look at the history (I saved it below):

You: the headline states and the OP assumes exactly that [IBM will now hand 
over 1.6 billion]...

Tony: ...no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".

You said (among other things) that the articles headline states that IBM will 
now hand over the fine.  I don't think you meant that, you were conflating the 
headline with the article, while distinguishing between the judgement against 
IBM and IBM's putative obedience.  Tony pointed out, correctly, that the 
headline did not after all say exactly that.  He was picking out just that one 
part of your words, not the whole thing.

The discussion kind of went south from there.  I'm guessing you thought Tony 
was disagreeing with the entirety of your post, not just that one part, and the 
two of you started sliding down the slippery slope toward a flame war.  As 
usual, it isn't necessary.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.  The 
inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.  -Churchill */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 20:09

Explain it to me Bob. I gotta hear this.

--- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 8:02 PM, Bob Bridges  wrote:
No, Bill, you don't, or at least you didn't in this case.  I don’t mind 
explaining it to you, if you really missed it.  If you don't care, I'll leave 
it.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 19:03

I read just fine. There’s more than just the headline.

--- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 6:58 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:
Do you not understand how to read?

--- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 17:11, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> And they’re appealing. So no payment will be made yet. Do you not understand 
> how courts work?

--- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 5:09 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:
Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".

--- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson 
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM 
> will now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the 
> headline states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.

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Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson
<0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM 
> will now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the 
> headline states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.

Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 9:58 PM, Jay Maynard  wrote:

Uhm, Bill...where, exactly, did Tony (I assume you mean Tony Harminc,
right?) say that IBM was going to hand over $1.6e+09? Citation, please.
With quote.

On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 8:54 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Tony thinks IBM is handing over 1.6 billion. Because the judge ordered it.
> In the article it states IBM is going to appeal. Which means they don’t pay
> anything, yet. Once they file a Notice of Appeal, usually within 30 days,
> with documentation of why they think the trial judge was wrong, the appeals
> court will decide whether the case gets heard. (Very likely) It gets
> scheduled, might be a while, and the appeals court might overturn or uphold
> the judgment. If upheld, IBM can appeal further. If overturned, BMC can
> appeal. Meanwhile, BMC & IBM can negotiate a settlement while the appeals
> play out. It could take years. No money changes hands while it plays out.
> No matter what the judge said.
> I was in law enforcement and was going to be a lawyer about 20 years ago.
> Took the LSAT, passed with flying colors and was offered seats at a number
> of law schools nationwide.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Friday, June 3, 2022, 9:34 PM, Bob Bridges 
> wrote:
>
> Well, look at the history (I saved it below):
>
> You: the headline states and the OP assumes exactly that [IBM will now
> hand over 1.6 billion]...
>
> Tony: ...no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".
>
> You said (among other things) that the articles headline states that IBM
> will now hand over the fine.  I don't think you meant that, you were
> conflating the headline with the article, while distinguishing between the
> judgement against IBM and IBM's putative obedience.  Tony pointed out,
> correctly, that the headline did not after all say exactly that.  He was
> picking out just that one part of your words, not the whole thing.
>
> The discussion kind of went south from there.  I'm guessing you thought
> Tony was disagreeing with the entirety of your post, not just that one
> part, and the two of you started sliding down the slippery slope toward a
> flame war.  As usual, it isn't necessary.
>
> ---
> Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
>
> /* The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.
> The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
> -Churchill */
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 20:09
>
> Explain it to me Bob. I gotta hear this.
>
> --- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 8:02 PM, Bob Bridges 
> wrote:
> No, Bill, you don't, or at least you didn't in this case.  I don’t mind
> explaining it to you, if you really missed it.  If you don't care, I'll
> leave it.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 19:03
>
> I read just fine. There’s more than just the headline.
>
> --- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 6:58 PM, Tony Harminc 
> wrote:
> Do you not understand how to read?
>
> --- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 17:11, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > And they’re appealing. So no payment will be made yet. Do you not
> understand how courts work?
>
> --- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 5:09 PM, Tony Harminc 
> wrote:
> Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".
>
> --- On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> > Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating
> IBM will now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet,
> the headline states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.
>
> --
> For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
> send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
> --
> Fo

Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC

[Bill Johnson]

That’s exactly what I’m saying. Until the appeals process plays out.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, June 3, 2022, 10:12 PM, Gibney, Dave 
<03b5261cfd78-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I hate to chime in here, but I believe you both are saying that "ordered" is 
not equivalent to the act of actually distributing the funds

> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf Of Bill Johnson
> Sent: Friday, June 03, 2022 7:04 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC
> 
> [EXTERNAL EMAIL] DO NOT CLICK links or attachments unless you recognize
> the sender and know the content is safe.
> 
> On Fri, 3 Jun 2022 at 15:49, Bill Johnson
> <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >
> > Saying it will or won’t be overturned is just as silly as insinuating IBM 
> > will
> now hand over 1.6 billion at this stage of the proceedings. Yet, the headline
> states and the OP assumes exactly that. Gleefully I might add.
> 
> Uh, no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Friday, June 3, 2022, 9:58 PM, Jay Maynard 
> wrote:
> 
> Uhm, Bill...where, exactly, did Tony (I assume you mean Tony Harminc,
> right?) say that IBM was going to hand over $1.6e+09? Citation, please.
> With quote.
> 
> On Fri, Jun 3, 2022 at 8:54 PM Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> 
> > Tony thinks IBM is handing over 1.6 billion. Because the judge ordered it.
> > In the article it states IBM is going to appeal. Which means they don’t pay
> > anything, yet. Once they file a Notice of Appeal, usually within 30 days,
> > with documentation of why they think the trial judge was wrong, the
> appeals
> > court will decide whether the case gets heard. (Very likely) It gets
> > scheduled, might be a while, and the appeals court might overturn or
> uphold
> > the judgment. If upheld, IBM can appeal further. If overturned, BMC can
> > appeal. Meanwhile, BMC & IBM can negotiate a settlement while the
> appeals
> > play out. It could take years. No money changes hands while it plays out.
> > No matter what the judge said.
> > I was in law enforcement and was going to be a lawyer about 20 years ago.
> > Took the LSAT, passed with flying colors and was offered seats at a number
> > of law schools nationwide.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Friday, June 3, 2022, 9:34 PM, Bob Bridges 
> > wrote:
> >
> > Well, look at the history (I saved it below):
> >
> > You: the headline states and the OP assumes exactly that [IBM will now
> > hand over 1.6 billion]...
> >
> > Tony: ...no. The subject line is exactly "IBM ordered to pay $1.6b to BMC".
> >
> > You said (among other things) that the articles headline states that IBM
> > will now hand over the fine.  I don't think you meant that, you were
> > conflating the headline with the article, while distinguishing between the
> > judgement against IBM and IBM's putative obedience.  Tony pointed out,
> > correctly, that the headline did not after all say exactly that.  He was
> > picking out just that one part of your words, not the whole thing.
> >
> > The discussion kind of went south from there.  I'm guessing you thought
> > Tony was disagreeing with the entirety of your post, not just that one
> > part, and the two of you started sliding down the slippery slope toward a
> > flame war.  As usual, it isn't necessary.
> >
> > ---
> > Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313
> >
> > /* The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings.
> > The inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of misery.
> > -Churchill */
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 20:09
> >
> > Explain it to me Bob. I gotta hear this.
> >
> > --- On Friday, June 3, 2022, 8:02 PM, Bob Bridges
> 
> > wrote:
> > No, Bill, you don't, or at least you didn't in this case.  I don’t mind
> > explaining it to you, if you really missed it.  If you don't care, I'll
> > leave it.
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> Behalf
> > Of Bill Johnson
> > Sent: Friday, June 3, 2022 19:03
> >
> > I read just fine. There’s more than just the headline.
> >
> > --- O

Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 hours to resolve"

[Bill Johnson]

 You're in the 21st century. Most state governments are still in the 20th. West 
Virginia maybe the 19th.

On Tuesday, July 26, 2022 at 08:30:10 AM EDT, Enzo D'Amato 
<042f4b016b5a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:  
 
 I wonder why the fiber cards were not set up in a redundant configuration. 
Like even in a lab environment, all of my peripherals are connected across 2 or 
more cards.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Jay Maynard
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 7:41 AM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 
hours to resolve"

Makes me wonder how old the system is...state governments are notorious for 
running hardware long past its useful life. If this was ESCON, life might get 
interesting.

On Tue, Jul 26, 2022 at 6:28 AM Bill Johnson < 
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> A spokesperson from Gov. Justice’s administration says that the cause 
> of the mainframe outage was a physical hardware failure and not the 
> result of any outside attack. The spokesperson tells 13 News that it 
> was a failure of a fiber card. Parts had to be overnighted, and 
> technicians had to fly in because the system is antiquated, and only a 
> few specialists understand how to fix it.
>
> Antiquated of course.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Monday, July 25, 2022, 11:43 PM, Steve Horein 
> 
> wrote:
>
> Spotted on reddit:
>
> https://wchstv.com/news/local/mainframe-outage-affecting-wva-state-age
> ncies-could-take-48-72-hours-to-resolv
>
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Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 hours to resolve"

[Bill Johnson]

A spokesperson from Gov. Justice’s administration says that the cause of the 
mainframe outage was a physical hardware failure and not the result of any 
outside attack. The spokesperson tells 13 News that it was a failure of a fiber 
card. Parts had to be overnighted, and technicians had to fly in because the 
system is antiquated, and only a few specialists understand how to fix it.

Antiquated of course.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, July 25, 2022, 11:43 PM, Steve Horein  wrote:

Spotted on reddit:
https://wchstv.com/news/local/mainframe-outage-affecting-wva-state-agencies-could-take-48-72-hours-to-resolv

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Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 hours to resolve"

[Bill Johnson]

Bingo


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, July 26, 2022, 3:04 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

Rex Pommier wrote:

>"move it to the cloud and that'll fix all our problems." 

 

>Maybe, just maybe, if your government would have allowed your IT department
the resources to maintain your systems you never would have hit this fiasco
in the first place?    Yes, I used to work for a state government and while
there was much waste, it definitely wasn't in their computer systems.  It
was like pulling hens' teeth to get money appropriated to keep the systems
even reasonably current.

 

I agree with you 100%, but of course the argument goes something like this:

*    We aren't in the IT business
*    The cloud providers ARE in the IT business
*    If we move to the cloud, it's THEIR problem, and they're 100%
reliable*
*    Ergo, we should move to the cloud

 

Plus cloud may come out of opex instead of capex, and that's maybe easier.
And, of course, the person making the decision won't be around long enough
to have to deal with any fallout. See? Simple, hard to argue with "logic"! 

 

For extra credit, read Dan Poyer's Dan Lenson books, several of which refer
to "the Cloudburst", when the cloud providers get hacked, taking down huge
swaths of infrastructure.

 

...phsiii

 

*well, they SAY they're 100% reliable


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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 hours to resolve"

[Bill Johnson]

It amazes me how little most laypeople know about IT and how easily they are 
brainwashed into believing the cloud will solve everything. Oh, and how little 
they’re willing to spend. Except for their cinnamon dolce latte.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, July 26, 2022, 2:43 PM, Pommier, Rex  
wrote:

"move it to the cloud and that'll fix all our problems."  

Maybe, just maybe, if your government would have allowed your IT department the 
resources to maintain your systems you never would have hit this fiasco in the 
first place?    Yes, I used to work for a state government and while there was 
much waste, it definitely wasn't in their computer systems.  It was like 
pulling hens' teeth to get money appropriated to keep the systems even 
reasonably current.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
John S. Giltner, Jr.
Sent: Tuesday, July 26, 2022 1:05 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: "Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could 
take 48, 72 hours to resolve"

Seems 2 parts failed and it happened last week. 

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.wvpublic.org/government/2022-07-21/mainframe-failure-shuts-down-dmv-dhhr-computer-systems__;!!KjMRP1Ixj6eLE0Fj!vEZK521pu_6IJVdRgo_xHFeC_aYqpKgh4x9uMlslIsuQpAhalnNGi59BT15vUbw3z_xK-hi4dXFdwgDv$
 

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Re: Mainframe outage affecting W.Va. state agencies could take 48, 72 hours to resolve

[Bill Johnson]

I worked for a major university in NE Ohio that had a written DR plan that 
didn’t include an actual offsite contract/plan to bring up a usable mainframe 
during an actual disaster. Because of cost. That was mid 90’s and they no 
longer have a mainframe. I think it was pretty common back then. It was at the 
universities in Ohio who were part of the consortium.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, July 27, 2022, 1:13 AM, Timothy Sipples  
wrote:

I have absolutely no information about this incident other than what the media 
are reporting. I wish everyone involved the best success.

My *personal* curiosity revolves around the Disaster Recovery plan and 
resources. As I'm sure we all know the standard/typical operational practice is 
to have an alternate site, separated at some distance, equipped with standby 
resources. Disk subsystems replicate between sites (primary to alternate) 
either synchronously or asynchronously. Or at least there'd be a remote tape 
library, preferably virtual to some degree (for performance reasons), 
preferably with multiple incremental backups per day. If the primary site is 
lost, for whatever reason(s), the IT operations team restores at least critical 
services from the alternate site. It might be a long RTO (24 hours for example) 
if it's a basic/entry DR arrangement, but it'd be something.

Over many years I've only ever worked with two clients that had no real DR plan 
and essentially no DR resources when I first met them. As it happens they were 
both government agencies, but they were also both located in fairly poor or 
poorer developing countries. One client took frequent tape backups and shuttled 
physical tapes off-site so at least they'd be able to recover to some point, 
eventually. (RTO="a week or two," RPO=12+ hours probably.) I wasn't happy they 
had to operate that way, but their constraints were genuine. I worked with the 
other government agency to eliminate their exposure within a tight budget, and 
they now have an alternate site with a reasonable DR capability.

I also remember working with another customer in a developing country, a bank. 
They were upgrading their systems, and their original plan involved losing DR 
protections for a couple days (about 48 hours) as I recall. That plan troubled 
me, so I worked with them to create a better, safer plan that preserved DR 
coverage throughout the upgrade project. They chose the revised plan. They 
completed their upgrade project on-time, within budget, and without incident.

So what happened to the alternate site (and DR switchover to it)?

— — — — —
Timothy Sipples
Senior Architect
Digital Assets, Industry Solutions, and Cybersecurity
IBM zSystems/LinuxONE, Asia-Pacific
sipp...@sg.ibm.com


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Re: EXTERNAL: Re: Running z/OS 1.12 apps on 2.4

[Bill Johnson]

Joined the retirement club myself yesterday. Too many bucket list things to 
accomplish.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, August 1, 2022, 8:11 PM, John McKown  
wrote:

Forgot to mention,  I'll be 70 & I'm not in good health (dialysis), so I'm
retiring and just going to stay home (gaming) or go on short weekend trips
in the car. I will most likely resign from all email groups.

On Mon, Aug 1, 2022, 16:12 Usher, Darrold <
014f796d148d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> z/OS v2.4 appears to really enforce LE compliance especially for any
> called utility routines will need to be LE compliant or you could end up
> with a U4088-63 abend. Generally, straightforward old COBOL code will
> continue to run on newer LE versions with some exceptions. It would nice to
> keep the old environment around at least until you can determine whether
> the apps that will remain can run on z/OS v2.4.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf
> Of Steve Horein
> Sent: Monday, August 1, 2022 4:02 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: EXTERNAL: Re: Running z/OS 1.12 apps on 2.4
>
> Where are you going after that?
> You seem like you would be a fun guy to work with.
>
> On Mon, Aug 1, 2022 at 1:22 PM John McKown 
> wrote:
>
> > My current employer is still running stuff on z/OS 1.12 on a z10BC.
> > They are shutting it down. But they have mentioned an "archive solution"
> for ???
> > apps which might not make the "hard" decommission date.
> >
> > Their latest idea is basically outsourcing to an "on demand" service.
> > It is running 2.4 . I am curious if they might run into problem with
> > old COBOL code with the new LE. It's just curiosity because I will not
> > be involved, supposedly. I am not sure about EasyTrieve Plus either.
> >
> > Thanks for any thoughts. My actual work for them will end, supposedly
> > end 1Q23, but my employment & pay will last until 1Aug23, regardless
> > (a kind of severance).
> >
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Re: Once upon a time......

[Bill Johnson]

The mainframe workload continues to increase and will continue to increase for 
decades.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, August 21, 2022, 5:29 PM, Charles Mills  wrote:

You would offload a lot of the (expensive) Z cycles to the GPU, right?

Still, I agree, hard for me to see this flying. It pains me to say this, but
we just don't seem to hear people saying "I would love to put business
process 'X' on the mainframe." Don't flame me -- I love the Z and the
mainframe has been very, very good to me -- but what we hear mostly it seems
is "I would love to get this business process OFF the mainframe."

Although, isn't @Dave's idea more or less what IBM has done with AI and the
z16? Coupled specialized processors to a Z?

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On
Behalf Of Phil Smith III
Sent: Sunday, August 21, 2022 1:37 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: Once upon a time..

Dave Jones wrote about attaching GPU cards to a Z to make it a super-number
cruncher.

 

What's the problem you're trying to solve? Cheap Intel MIPS being too
inexpensive? Seriously, I've never heard anyone say "I'd put this
numeric-intensive application on zSystems but they're just too slow". No,
they say "Intel cycles are cheap: let's use an array with GPU cards
attached".

 

There might be a use case or two, but I'd be (pleasantly!) astonished to
find more than a handful.


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Re: CA-11

[Bill Johnson]

The Control suite of products is quite good. D, M, O, IOA, etc.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 31, 2022, 11:19 AM, Carmen Vitullo  
wrote:

BMC's CONTROL-D IIRC, there's a CONTROL Suite that will / can replace 
all of the products

they work real well

Carmen

On 8/31/2022 10:16 AM, Steve Beaver wrote:
> Does anyone know a replacement for CA-11?
>
>
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Re: Is DEBE still alive?

[Bill Johnson]

Does Everything But Eat is what we called it.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 9:36 AM, ITschak Mugzach  
wrote:

I don't have this module installed, but wonder if it will work on a Z/OS
system if it was installed.



ITschak Mugzach
*|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM coming soon  *

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Re: Is DEBE still alive?

[Bill Johnson]

No, you said you didn’t have it installed. Plus, if you don’t have it, the 
question is moot.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 10:44 AM, Itschak Mugzach 
<0305158ad67d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Read again. I do not have the module.

*| **Itschak Mugzach | Director | SecuriTeam Software **|** IronSphere
Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring for Z/OS, zLinux
and IBM I **|  *

*|* *Email**: i_mugz...@securiteam.co.il **|* *Mob**: +972 522 986404 **|*
*Skype**: ItschakMugzach **|* *Web**: www.Securiteam.co.il  **|*





On Tue, Sep 27, 2022 at 5:41 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Why not try it if you have the module available?
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 10:04 AM, Itschak Mugzach <
> 0305158ad67d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> My question was "will it run on z/os"?...
>
> בתאריך יום ג׳, 27 בספט׳ 2022 ב-16:57 מאת Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:
>
> > Does Everything But Eat is what we called it.
> >
> >
> > Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> > On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 9:36 AM, ITschak Mugzach <
> > imugz...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > I don't have this module installed, but wonder if it will work on a Z/OS
> > system if it was installed.
> >
> >
> >
> > ITschak Mugzach
> > *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
> > for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM coming soon  *
> >
> > --
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> >
> >
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Re: Is DEBE still alive?

[Bill Johnson]

Why not try it if you have the module available?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 10:04 AM, Itschak Mugzach 
<0305158ad67d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

My question was "will it run on z/os"?...

בתאריך יום ג׳, 27 בספט׳ 2022 ב-16:57 מאת Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>:

> Does Everything But Eat is what we called it.
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Tuesday, September 27, 2022, 9:36 AM, ITschak Mugzach <
> imugz...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I don't have this module installed, but wonder if it will work on a Z/OS
> system if it was installed.
>
>
>
> ITschak Mugzach
> *|** IronSphere Platform* *|* *Information Security Continuous Monitoring
> for z/OS, x/Linux & IBM I **| z/VM coming soon  *
>
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Re: FYI: IBM sales jump shows the mainframe is not dead, with hybrid cloud alive and well | Network World

[Bill Johnson]

That’s not going to sit well with the “mainframe is dying” crowd. It will still 
be the best platform in the world long after most of us have retired.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 20, 2022, 4:30 PM, Mark Regan  wrote:

https://www.networkworld.com/article/3677548/ibm-sales-jump-shows-the-mainframe-is-not-dead-with-hybrid-cloud-alive-and-well.html

 

​Regards,

Mark Regan, K8MTR General, EN80tg
CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1991), 

RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC//OP-009QCP

Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017
z/OS Network Software Consultant (z NetView, z/OS Communications Server)
Contractor, Checks & Balances, Inc.
Email:    marktre...@gmail.com  
LinkedIn:  https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan

 

 


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Re: FYI: IBM sales jump shows the mainframe is not dead, with hybrid cloud alive and well | Network World

[Bill Johnson]

I worked on the mainframe “cloud” in the 1980’s. GM consolidated data centers 
in Charlotte. (EDS) Most of the manufacturing facilities were in the Midwest. 
1983. I was part of the first successful migration. Still have the little 
congratulatory marble square with the gold emblem. I don’t cringe about the 
“cloud” now just as I didn’t then. Although, I didn’t think in 1983 they could 
pull it off. Certainly there are differences now, but the basic point was to 
allow processing at a central location from anywhere in the world. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, October 20, 2022, 5:25 PM, Paul Gilmartin 
<042bfe9c879d-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

On Thu, 20 Oct 2022 20:54:31 +, Bill Johnson wrote:

>That’s not going to sit well with the “mainframe is dying” crowd. It will 
>still be the best platform in the world long after most of us have retired.
> 
But the mainframe traditionalists will cringe at the word "cloud".

Note that this thread originated because the OP's environment and a supplier are
lethargic in adding HTTPS to their tools repertoire, preferring to stay with 
FTP.

>On Thursday, October 20, 2022, 4:30 PM, Mark Regan  
>wrote:
>
>https://www.networkworld.com/article/3677548/ibm-sales-jump-shows-the-mainframe-is-not-dead-with-hybrid-cloud-alive-and-well.html

-- 
gil

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Re: Interesting article on cloud repatriation

[Bill Johnson]

You mean the cloud isn’t the panacea promised?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, October 25, 2022, 7:37 PM, Enzo D'Amato 
<042f4b016b5a-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I saw this article, and I thought that the people here might find this 
interesting.

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/basecamp-and-hey-move-off-of-the-cloud/

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Re: A Million Years

[Bill Johnson]

Is IEBUPDTE still around? I know it could change strings but had limits 
regarding record length.


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On Monday, October 17, 2022, 2:24 PM, Steve Beaver  
wrote:

A million years ago the  was an IBM Batch Utility to change strings

In a PDS.

 

Does anyone remember the name of that utility?


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IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

[Bill Johnson]

I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding 
offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities.





https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases



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Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

[Bill Johnson]

No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to 
a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM 
pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner 
invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those 
pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is 
downside risk.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills  
wrote:

It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking 
account from Chase to Wells?

Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit 
plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of 
return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply 
transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding 
offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities.





https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases



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Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

[Bill Johnson]

AIG was so bad in 2007-08 the government had to bail them out to the tune of 85 
billion and 80% government ownership. And they were America’s largest insurer. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:47 PM, Tony Harminc  
wrote:

On Wed, 14 Sept 2022 at 17:02, Charles Mills  wrote:

> It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their
> checking account from Chase to Wells?
>
> Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined
> benefit plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the
> rate of return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM
> simply transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that
> business.
>

Depends on whether you think Prudential is more or less likely to go bust
than IBM. Of course we think that none of these Wall Street behemoths is
going anywhere, but you never know. Actually it looks as though IBM has
split the transfer, so even if one of the insurance companies goes down,
the other should be there to pay half.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

[Bill Johnson]

LOLOLOLOL see AIG.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 7:01 PM, Charles Mills  
wrote:

No, I would guess that the two insurance companies are on the hook, at least 
each for their 50% share, no matter how well or poorly their investments do. I 
would guess that their full faith and credit is on the line. Your insurance 
company never says "sorry 'bout your house burning down. We invested *your* 
premiums in Theranos. Is there anything else we can help you with?"

True, there is no upside for the pensioners, but that is kind of the nature of 
a defined benefit plan. There is no up potential, and relatively little down 
potential. (Yes, everything comes with some risk.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to 
a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM 
pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner 
invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those 
pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is 
downside risk.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills  
wrote:

It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking 
account from Chase to Wells?

Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit 
plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of 
return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply 
transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding 
offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities.





https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases



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Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

[Bill Johnson]

The road is littered with pensions now being paid by the PBGC @ a fraction of 
their promised benefit. In Ohio, the public employee and teachers pension funds 
are severely underfunded.

Ohio ranked as the state with the fifth-most unfunded liabilities at $429.53 
billion. The top four included California ($1.53 trillion), Illinois ($533.72 
billion), Texas ($529.70 billion) and New York ($508.70 billion).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 7:01 PM, Charles Mills  
wrote:

No, I would guess that the two insurance companies are on the hook, at least 
each for their 50% share, no matter how well or poorly their investments do. I 
would guess that their full faith and credit is on the line. Your insurance 
company never says "sorry 'bout your house burning down. We invested *your* 
premiums in Theranos. Is there anything else we can help you with?"

True, there is no upside for the pensioners, but that is kind of the nature of 
a defined benefit plan. There is no up potential, and relatively little down 
potential. (Yes, everything comes with some risk.)

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 2:51 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

No it isn’t just a financial thing. They transferred the money & liabilities to 
a firm that thinks it can turn a profit on the investment. The current IBM 
pension liability was over funded. (Over 100%) If the new pension fund owner 
invests in say Bitcoin and loses 2/3 like Bitcoin did over the past year, those 
pensions are at risk. There’s no upside risk to the pensioners, but there is 
downside risk.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, September 14, 2022, 5:01 PM, Charles Mills  
wrote:

It's purely a financial thing, right? Like if they had moved their checking 
account from Chase to Wells?

Pensioners should not see any significant change. These are defined benefit 
plans: you get $X/month no matter who pays the bills or what the rate of 
return. Nor do they incur any significantly changed risk. IBM simply 
transferred their rate of return risk to someone who is in that business.

Charles


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List [mailto:IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU] On Behalf 
Of Bill Johnson
Sent: Wednesday, September 14, 2022 1:16 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: IBM pension 16 billion offloaded.

I’m shocked the IBM haters haven’t mentioned IBM’s announcement today regarding 
offloading 16 billion in pension liabilities.





https://www.pionline.com/pension-risk-transfer/ibm-offloads-16-billion-pension-liabilities-annuity-purchases



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Re: Latin

[Bill Johnson]

I had a class on medical terminology when I worked at a hospital. No need to 
learn Latin. While Latin might make some feel superior, learning Spanish or 
Chinese would probably be far more useful. Most Americans are pathetic, 
unilingual speakers, while most of the world is multilingual. Having travelled 
throughout the world, I’m happy most speak English, or I can speak English & 
German. (3 years worth) Also got exposed to some Latin via my foray into the 
legal profession, albeit a short one.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 18, 2022, 5:54 PM, Bob Bridges  
wrote:

Yes!  I took two years of classical Greek (I was going to be a religion major, 
at the time), which was my first introduction to heavily inflected languages.  
When I went back to take some more French, I discovered that everything I had 
not understood about the subjunctive mood in French back in high school now 
made perfect sense to me.

A prof at a medical college is supposed to have remarked that he can always 
tell the students who've taken Latin or Greek; when he names a bone or organ, 
often their eyes light up with comprehension.  I'm not a medical student, but 
with a very little classical background words such as "pericardium" and 
"hemolytic" make sense even before the definition follows.

---
Bob Bridges, robhbrid...@gmail.com, cell 336 382-7313

/* The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and 
Progressives.  The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes.  The 
business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected.  
-G K Chesterton */

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Joel C. Ewing
Sent: Sunday, September 18, 2022 10:31

So many words in English and in many European languages have their roots in 
Latin that a knowledge of Latin gave you an edge in building vocabulary in 
multiple languages.  For English-only speakers, it served as an introduction to 
language concepts that barely exist in English: of noun gender and declension 
causing the base forms of written and spoken words to change based on context.  
About the only examples of this in English are the subjective and objective 
forms of personal pronouns (I/me, he/him, she/her. they/them); and the flagrant 
misuse and abuse of these forms by public & TV speakers, who ought to know 
better, shows even this limited use of declension in English is obviously not 
understood by many.

One could argue that a knowledge of the basics of Latin could serve as a bridge 
to understanding other languages (including English) in the same way that 
knowing the basics of one procedural programming language serves as a bridge to 
understanding other programming languages.

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Re: Latin

[Bill Johnson]

Vade vilis.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Sunday, September 18, 2022, 8:43 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Sun, 18 Sept 2022 at 19:00, Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I had a class on medical terminology when I worked at a hospital. No need
> to learn Latin. While Latin might make some feel superior, learning Spanish
> or Chinese would probably be far more useful. Most Americans are pathetic,
> unilingual speakers, while most of the world is multilingual. Having
> travelled throughout the world, I’m happy most speak English, or I can
> speak English & German. (3 years worth) Also got exposed to some Latin via
> my foray into the legal profession, albeit a short one.
>

De minimis non curat lex.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM board probes claims of fudged sales figures that led to big bonuses for execs

[Bill Johnson]

So IBM is being accused of transferring MAINFRAME revenues to the cloud 
division. If anything, it confirms the future of the mainframe. And, isn’t the 
mainframe part of IBM’s cloud infrastructure?


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, August 3, 2022, 11:20 AM, Lance D. Jackson 
 wrote:

https://www.theregister.com/2022/08/01/exclusive_ibm_board_of_directors/

 


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Re: Is anyone there?

[Bill Johnson]

Because Bama didn’t get in the college football playoffs. And their nemesis 
Georgia won!


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On Tuesday, January 10, 2023, 11:36 AM, David Cole  wrote:

Hmmm. When I go to 
"listserv.ua.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A1=ind2301=IBM-MAIN&", I see my post as 
well  as responses from rpinion865 and Matt Hogstrom.

But I am receiving neither their posts nor the echo of mine via 
email. I think something is broken at UA.edu.

Dave





>It's been four days since I've received any posts from IBM-MAIN.
>The last one I received was dated 01/06/23.
>Is anyone there?
>Has everyone gone home?
>Will this message come back to me?
>The silence is deafening
>

Dave Cole, Developer
dbc...@gmail.com (personal)
dbc...@colesoft.com (business)
540-456-6518 (cell)

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Re: IBM sues Micro Focus, claims it copied mainframe software • The Register

[Bill Johnson]

“To ensure you steer clear of any legal risk of reverse engineering, it should 
be performed only to the extent of allowances, such as for accessing ideas, 
facts, and functional concepts contained in the product.”
I doubt MicroFocus received allowances from IBM. Especially considering they 
were kicked out of the preferred vendor program for violating other agreements 
to not try and migrate people off the mainframe.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Wednesday, November 23, 2022, 1:08 PM, Tony Harminc  wrote:

On Tue, 22 Nov 2022 at 19:47, Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:


> Reverse engineering to get the source code is illegal.
>

That's a remarkably broad and unsubstantiated claim.

Tony H.

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Re: IBM sues Micro Focus, claims it copied mainframe software • The Register

[Bill Johnson]

Reverse engineering to get the source code is illegal.


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On Tuesday, November 22, 2022, 11:23 AM, Joe Monk  wrote:

Not sure that this is a winnable lawsuit though.

The architecture of a file (and the data therein) that is only needed to
run a product is not copyright protected. So copying the WSBIND
file doesnt necessarily amount to a copyright violation.

Joe

On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 10:10 AM Bob T Roller <
044ef325f6c3-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> Not surprised. They lost their preferred vendor status with IBM a year or
> so ago. Because of their tie up with Amazon.
>
> Sent from Proton Mail for iOS
>
> On Tue, Nov 22, 2022 at 9:25 AM, Mark Regan  wrote:
>
> > https://www.theregister.com/2022/11/22/ibm_sues_micro_focus_for
> >
> > ​Regards,
> >
> > Mark Regan, K8MTR General, EN80tg
> > CTO1 USNR-Retired (1969-1991),
> >
> > RUENAAA/CNO WASHINGTON DC//OP-009QCP
> >
> > Nationwide Insurance, Retired, 1986-2017
> > z/OS Network Software Consultant (z NetView, z/OS Communications Server)
> > Contractor, Checks & Balances, Inc.
> > Email: marktre...@gmail.com 
> > LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-t-regan
> >
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Re: IBM does it again

[Bill Johnson]

They dismissed the original lawsuit without prejudice. Which means they reserve 
the right to refile, often with new claims or dropped claims. Both being true 
in this case.
The basic claim, that the mainframe is old technology and therefore can’t be 
part of “new” technology, the cloud, is ridiculous. Like saying a Tesla isn’t 
new technology because it’s a car. The IBM cloud isn’t all that different than 
non mainframe clouds. And why reinvent the wheel when MQ, DB2, CICS, & IMS can 
be used to access the data?
It appears to me that the participants in the suit are unhappy that IBM stock 
didn’t perform like MSFT, AMZN, or Google. Of course IBM has performed better 
than those 3 in the last year or so. I’ve never invested in IBM but I did buy 
into earnings once and made a few bucks. Actually, you could have made a bundle 
in IBM in the last couple of years buying around 120 and selling around 140. It 
has been in that trough for awhile now. And collecting the dividend.
Lastly, IBM’s revenue has been declining for quite a few years until recently. 
The latest quarter, just released, had the best revenue growth in years.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 5:35 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Or maybe when the article said "similar" they were referring to this:

"The new complaint expands upon the one filed last year while also 
omitting previous allegations that the supposed securities fraud 
allocated revenue for the purpose of maximizing executive bonus 
compensation."

On 1/26/2023 1:37 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Pretty clear.
> Due to the way complex securities litigation works, the firm representing the 
> largest group of investors – Ironworkers Local 580 Joint Fund – took over the 
> handling of the case, then in September, 2022, moved to have the case 
> voluntarily dismissed without prejudice [PDF], meaning the charges could be 
> refiled.
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 4:12 PM, Tom Brennan 
>  wrote:
> 
> Then I wonder why they used the word "similar" in the article and not
> "same".
> 
> On 1/26/2023 12:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
>> Same lawsuit refiled. Did you read the entire article?
>>
>>
>> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 3:19 PM, zMan  wrote:
>>
>> IBM top brass accused again of using mainframes to prop up Watson, cloud
>> sales
>>
>> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/18/ibm_sued_securities_fraud/
>>
>> What has happened to the IBM we knew and loved?!
>>
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> 
> 
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Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM does it again

[Bill Johnson]

I never stated it had anything to do with revenue going up or down. Yes, it 
definitely has to do with where they booked the revenue. Booking some mainframe 
revenue in the cloud area makes perfect sense to me and seems to be where the 
filers of the lawsuit take umbrage.

The plaintiffs seem the think that the mainframe is old technology, (it isn’t) 
and can’t possibly be part of the IBM cloud. (It is)

I doubt a few executives would control where revenue is booked. Likely the 
accounting team would do that. Perhaps with some executive input. Plus, the 
auditors would provide guidance if something looked unusual.

Not really sure what the plaintiffs are arguing since IBM’s stock and dividends 
didn’t do anything unusual. The multiple hasn’t changed much and the dividend 
has been stable and consistent.

Any payments to the executives are approved by the board and the board is voted 
on by shareholders.

I’m betting they simply were unhappy with the lack of stock price appreciation. 
Watching MSFT, AMZN, and GOOGL sell for much higher multiples because of the 
cloud hype. 

Unless it is related to the Kyndryl split? But, doesn’t appear to be with what 
I read.

I was employed at Phar Mor when they were exposed as the largest corporate 
fraud in US history.  1991. Surpassed since then by at least Enron. But Phar 
Mor had 2 sets of books and had hired executives from the auditors (Coopers & 
Lybrand) to make the coverup possible. Mickey Monus spent a decade in prison 
for that and Jeff Walley & Patrick Finn, 2 accountants were found guilty too. 
Finn did around 30 months and Walley got probation. I sat in many meetings with 
those guys.

The fact they withdrew the case is troublesome. If they were confident of their 
original position, why withdraw it? Looks to me like grabbing at straws.



Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, January 30, 2023, 4:41 PM, Pommier, Rex  
wrote:

Hi Bill,

I understand the "basic claim" in the lawsuit differently from what you're 
saying below.  While I agree that a mainframe cloud is essentially no different 
from any other cloud, actually not much different from the old timeshare from 
decades ago, I understand the basic claim completely different.  I don't see 
the claim being based on wither or not IBM's revenue went up or down, I take it 
as IBM shifting their revenue from one stream to another, in order to deceive 
shareholders (and possibly customers) into what areas of their business are 
performing well and which are floundering.  The main takeaway I get from this 
is based on these 2 paragraphs:


"Defendants used steep discounting on the mainframe part of the ELA in return 
for the customer purchasing catalog software (i.e. Strategic Imperative 
Revenue), unneeded and unused by the customer," the lawsuit stated.

IBM is also alleged to have shifted revenue from its non-strategic Global 
Business Services (GBS) segment to Watson, a Strategic Imperative in the CAMSS 
product set, to convince investors that the company was successfully expanding 
beyond its legacy business.


IOW, the way I read it, the customer didn't want the "strategic" products but 
IBM basically discounted the mainframe product set enough to (almost?) give 
away the "strategic" software, which sits at the customer site unused, to make 
it look like the customer wanted and bought this product, and thus shifted 
revenue from "legacy" business to "strategic" business, when it didn't actually 
happen.  IBM would have gotten the revenue in either case, but - according to 
the lawsuits - IBM was playing fast and loose with where the revenue was 
reported, because if the revenue was reported under "strategic" the execs got 
bigger bonuses as compared to if the revenue was reported under "legacy".  . 

I'm not going to argue the merits of the lawsuits because none of us is close 
enough to know what's really happening, but if the lawsuits move forward and 
are proven in court, some big blue execs should be wearing orange.

Rex

-----Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 5:00 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: IBM does it again

They dismissed the original lawsuit without prejudice. Which means they reserve 
the right to refile, often with new claims or dropped claims. Both being true 
in this case.
The basic claim, that the mainframe is old technology and therefore can’t be 
part of “new” technology, the cloud, is ridiculous. Like saying a Tesla isn’t 
new technology because it’s a car. The IBM cloud isn’t all that different than 
non mainframe clouds. And why reinvent the wheel when MQ, DB2, CICS, & IMS can 
be used to access the data?
It appears to me that the participants in the suit are unhappy that IBM stock 
didn’t perform like MSFT, AMZN, or Google. Of course IBM has performed better 
than those 3 i

Re: IBM does it again

[Bill Johnson]

Yup, poor journalism. Typical of that organization. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, January 27, 2023, 11:01 AM, Allan Staller 
<0387911dea17-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Classification: Confidential

Poor journalistic standards or lack of relevant knowledge.

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Tom 
Brennan
Sent: Thursday, January 26, 2023 3:13 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM does it again

[CAUTION: This Email is from outside the Organization. Unless you trust the 
sender, Don't click links or open attachments as it may be a Phishing email, 
which can steal your Information and compromise your Computer.]

Then I wonder why they used the word "similar" in the article and not "same".

On 1/26/2023 12:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Same lawsuit refiled. Did you read the entire article?
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 3:19 PM, zMan  wrote:
>
> IBM top brass accused again of using mainframes to prop up Watson,
> cloud sales
>
> https://apc01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.
> theregister.com%2F2023%2F01%2F18%2Fibm_sued_securities_fraud%2F=0
> 5%7C01%7Callan.staller%40HCL.COM%7C1a3dbf5b2a9e43b33ae408daffe21709%7C
> 189de737c93a4f5a8b686f4ca9941912%7C0%7C0%7C638103643779085653%7CUnknow
> n%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLC
> JXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=arh8LJL92bATn8J%2B0sj2tV3MHbwtRe8aO
> x9VcoBvjnk%3D=0
>
> What has happened to the IBM we knew and loved?!
>
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Re: IBM does it again

[Bill Johnson]

Same lawsuit refiled. Did you read the entire article? 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 3:19 PM, zMan  wrote:

IBM top brass accused again of using mainframes to prop up Watson, cloud
sales

https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/18/ibm_sued_securities_fraud/

What has happened to the IBM we knew and loved?!

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Re: IBM does it again

[Bill Johnson]

Pretty clear. 
Due to the way complex securities litigation works, the firm representing the 
largest group of investors – Ironworkers Local 580 Joint Fund – took over the 
handling of the case, then in September, 2022, moved to have the case 
voluntarily dismissed without prejudice [PDF], meaning the charges could be 
refiled.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 4:12 PM, Tom Brennan 
 wrote:

Then I wonder why they used the word "similar" in the article and not 
"same".

On 1/26/2023 12:31 PM, Bill Johnson wrote:
> Same lawsuit refiled. Did you read the entire article?
> 
> 
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> 
> 
> On Thursday, January 26, 2023, 3:19 PM, zMan  wrote:
> 
> IBM top brass accused again of using mainframes to prop up Watson, cloud
> sales
> 
> https://www.theregister.com/2023/01/18/ibm_sued_securities_fraud/
> 
> What has happened to the IBM we knew and loved?!
> 
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Re: The world was promised 'cloud magic'. So much for that fairy tale

[Bill Johnson]

All the cloud clowns aren’t going to be happy. Most of them were the same 
people who said banks were being replaced by internet banks and one had 40 
million accounts. The same people didn’t think pharmacies were open 24 by 7. (I 
know not ALL) Those same people have never seen interest rates above zero, 
probably think Elon Musk is a genius, and global warming isn’t real. 


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Thursday, November 10, 2022, 11:03 AM, Phil Smith III  
wrote:

https://www-theregister-com.cdn.ampproject.org/c/s/www.theregister.com/AMP/2
022/11/02/cloud_magic_era_ends/

 

Funny, nobody said this about timesharing back in the day. (yeah, yeah,
EVERYTHING was different, but still)


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Re: zOSMF

[Bill Johnson]

I have to agree with this. Once I had my JCL created for just about any upgrade 
task, it was simple to make small changes to rerun the same process for the 
next upgrade. That goes for zOS, DB2, CICS, IMS, MQ, and most third party 
software.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, March 6, 2023, 8:12 PM, Shaffer, Terri 
<017d5f778222-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

When I worked at Chase bank, We had 117 LPARS and maintenance/clone was a 30 
minute task. So adding z/OSMF was never even brought up as a consideration.

So while I understand the direction IBM is headed, its adding LOTS of layers to 
something that sound not be hard.  Running thru screens vs submitting a canned 
job, is hours vs minutes.

As much as I love my job and starting with MVS 1.3.8 to now z/OS 2.5 and even 
OS/390, they have added a layer of complexity that eliminated the KISS 
principle, sadly.

So I have to disagree..

Ms Terri E Shaffer
Senior Systems Engineer,
z/OS Support:
ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com

-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of Rob 
Schramm
Sent: Monday, March 6, 2023 4:27 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: zOSMF

EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you know the 
content is safe.


I think the promise of zosmf is far beyond just a server pack replacement.
Yeah server pack was great for what it was but when it comes to the grind of 
installing over and over and over again and the customization the workflow 
features I believe really hold the promise to fixing what is a continuously 
pain in the butt situation.  And hopefully they'll continue to make it lighter 
and lighter.  But the other part is the distribution points and the packaging 
for distribution.  Yeah I don't really care how it happens whether it's a GUI 
or not.  But in my view this is steps in the right direction.

I would point you to Ed's presentation on the workflow features that were 
incorporated to E/JES2 installation.  I really think there's something here.

Just my two cents.

Rob Schramm

On Mon, Mar 6, 2023, 12:06 Michael Babcock  wrote:

> I agree.  We use a permanent maintenance LPAR which is generally not up.
> With ServerPac, it didn't matter we could select it as the target from our
> driving system.  With z/OSMF, if run on the driving system, z/OSMF wanted
> the target up and wanted to communicate with it via z/OSMF.  Not good
> for us.
>
> Further, PSWI uses DSS to restore the datasets and ignores any
> DATACLAS parameters.  Our OMVS datasets are all EXTADDR so we had to
> build a REXX EXEC to copy the OMVS datasets to a newly allocated OMVS dataset 
> with the
> EXTADDR attribute.  Which by the way, what happens when the ROOT grows
> beyond 4GB?
>
> There were a number of other things we ran into which escape me at the
> moment.
>
> On Mon, Mar 6, 2023 at 10:15 AM Shaffer, Terri <
> 017d5f778222-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
>
> > Randy,
> >  I completely agree, This will be my 40th year working on z/OS and
> > at least another 7 years to go.
> >
> > I find z/OSMF cumbersome.  I prefer to do things close to the source.
> Not
> > a tool to add layers of complexity and places to go wrong with yet
> > more strange messages.
> >
> > I installed z/OS 2.5 before they eliminated SERVERPAC.  I then
> > ordered it again to try it thru z/OSMF, it added a lot more time,
> > the SSA's, my SMS ACS routines and how things got built added to the
> > complexity.  Plus
> there
> > are many times I would bypass steps in serverpac, that because
> > z/OSMF is performing what they call checks, think idiot proofing,
> > makes this even more difficult.
> >
> > More to come, but if I find work arounds, I will bypass in the
> > future
> what
> > I can in z/OSMF software installs.
> >
> >
> > Ms Terri E Shaffer
> > Senior Systems Engineer,
> > z/OS Support:
> > ACIWorldwide - Telecommuter
> > H(412-766-2697) C(412-519-2592)
> > terri.shaf...@aciworldwide.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On
> > Behalf Of Harris Randy - Nashville
> > Sent: Friday, March 3, 2023 9:03 AM
> > To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> > Subject: Re: zOSMF
> >
> > EXTERNAL EMAIL: Do not click links or open attachments unless you
> > know
> the
> > content is safe.
> >
> >
> > I'm sure my complaints don't do any good, but I've been doing this
> > for 25 years (I know many of you a lot longer).
> > I don't understand why IBM wants to force everyone to use z/OSMF.
> > Maybe it's an attempt to attract a younger group of System Programmers.
> > That's fine. However, I am not a GUI fan. I like the green screen.
> > Serverpac works great. I am running into issues trying to learn z/OSMF.
> > It's a waste of my time when I already know how to use Serverpac.
> >
> > Randy Harris
> > P 615-344-3244
> > C 662-401-8552
> > james.harr...@hcahealthcare.com
> >
> > -Original Message-
> 

Re: IBM's Fall From World Dominance

[Bill Johnson]

I find it disingenuous when someone doesn’t mention the antitrust lawsuit filed 
against IBM in 1969 and dropped in 1982.

https://cs.stanford.edu/people/eroberts/cs181/projects/corporate-monopolies/government_ibm.html





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 4:15 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

https://spectrum.ieee.org/ibms-fall-from-world-dominance

 

Not negative overall, just recognizing that things have changed, for the
most part.

 

 


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Re: IBM's Fall From World Dominance

[Bill Johnson]

Google has its own chatbot. Still, chatbots are years away from reliable use. 
MSFT’s has been shown to be somewhat unreliable. 

Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 5:00 PM, David Crayford  
wrote:

IBM appears to have returned to its strength of conducting top-class 
research and development, which was always its forte. However, as the 
saying goes, nothing lasts forever. Google's reign as the world's 
dominant force may be the next to end. It seems that ChatGPT is on track 
to disrupt Google Search to such an extent that it will become 
irrelevant, and Microsoft is well-positioned to take advantage of the 
situation. While many people criticize Microsoft, it was a brilliant 
move by CEO Satya Nadella to reinvent the company, much like Lou 
Gerstner did with IBM in the 1990s. Those were certainly the days!


On 1/3/23 05:15, Phil Smith III wrote:
> https://spectrum.ieee.org/ibms-fall-from-world-dominance
>
>  
>
> Not negative overall, just recognizing that things have changed, for the
> most part.
>
>  
>
>  
>
>
> --
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Re: IBM's Fall From World Dominance

[Bill Johnson]

What is the connection between the U.S. Census Bureau and IBM?

Herman Hollerith worked for the Census Bureau during the 1880 census and then 
for the 1890 census, invented the electronic tabulators and punchcards that the 
Census Bureau used from 1890 until the 1950s. Hollerith left the Census Bureau 
to start the Tabulating Maching Company, which would eventually become 
International Business Machines (IBM).


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 5:05 PM, Gene Hudders 
<00883908b3b7-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

I wonder about the accuracy of this article saying that IBM was involved in the 
1890 census. From IBM history:

IBM, in full International Business Machines Corporation, leading American 
computer manufacturer, with a major share of the market both in the United 
States and abroad. Its headquarters are in Armonk, New York. It was 
incorporated in 1911 as the Computing-Tabulating-Recording Company in a 
consolidation of three smaller companies that made punch-card tabulators and 
other office products. The company assumed its present name in 1924 under the 
leadership of Thomas Watson, a man of considerable marketing skill who became 
general manager in 1914 and had gained complete control of the firm by 1924.  
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In a message dated 2/28/2023 4:57:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
032966e74d0f-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu writes: 
Why? As the article you posted notes : In 1982, the case was dropped by a 
judgement ruling it "without merit." See: 
https://www.nytimes.com/1981/02/15/business/us-vsibm.html which claims:

The trial began in May 1975. Before the outset, the Government estimated that 
the presentation of its case would last 60 days. Instead, it took three years. 
The Justice Department is on its third lead counsel. Robert H. Bork, a Yale law 
professor, has dubbed the case ''the antitrust division's Vietnam.''

Moreover, given the rapid pace of change in the computer industry, the case now 
centers on a market situation that existed two or three technological 
generations ago. ''It's pretty much an historical curiosity,'' an I.B.M. 
competitor concedes.

Some outside observers view the I.B.M. case as proof that the Justice 
Department cannot and should not be trying to restructure major global 
industries. Irving S. Shapiro, chairman of E.I. duPont de Nemours & Company, a 
lawyer who spent several years in Justice, says: ''All the ballplayers are 
above their heads in these cases that concern the structure of key industries. 
From the lawyer who drafted the case right on up, you're talking about people 
who have no experience in economics or industry.''


-Original Message-
From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  On Behalf Of 
Bill Johnson
Sent: Tuesday, February 28, 2023 3:45 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
Subject: Re: IBM's Fall From World Dominance

CAUTION: This email originated from outside of the Texas Comptroller's email 
system.
DO NOT click links or open attachments unless you expect them from the sender 
and know the content is safe.

I find it disingenuous when someone doesn't mention the antitrust lawsuit filed 
against IBM in 1969 and dropped in 1982.

https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fcs.stanford.edu%2Fpeople%2Feroberts%2Fcs181%2Fprojects%2Fcorporate-monopolies%2Fgovernment_ibm.html=05%7C01%7Cmichael.watkins%40CPA.TEXAS.GOV%7C0c7eb32d389147a4d8d608db19d51d54%7C2055feba299d4d0daa5a73b8b42fef08%7C0%7C0%7C638132175332879927%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=1AB7x6vngOKZs4xUbWETKljQKD8miQNyYFi9fQAhb2k%3D=0





Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Tuesday, February 28, 2023, 4:15 PM, Phil Smith III  wrote:

https://gcc02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Fspectrum.ieee.org%2Fibms-fall-from-world-dominance=05%7C01%7Cmichael.watkins%40CPA.TEXAS.GOV%7C0c7eb32d389147a4d8d608db19d51d54%7C2055feba299d4d0daa5a73b8b42fef08%7C0%7C0%7C638132175332879927%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000%7C%7C%7C=sLXMAqg%2FEOpsL9aVRAPRxa%2FZOBHM22g0d3L9G8VI8EA%3D=0



Not negative overall, just recognizing that things have changed, for the most 
part.






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Re: If You Had Invested $10,000 In IBM In 2013, This Is How Much You Would Have Today

[Bill Johnson]

If you had invested 10,000 in Tesla 2 years ago, you’d now have 5,000. If you 
bought bitcoin in 2021, you lost half. If you purchased GM stock in 2006, you 
lost it all. If you bought a real bank like JPM in 2013, you tripled your 
money. Most of the “high growth” stocks that Silicon Valley has pushed on 
America as disruptors, like Uber, Chewy, don’t even make any money at all & 
their stocks are below the first trade price. Uber, who I drove for as a 
possible retirement hobby, (3 months lost $600) has lost over 10 billion 
dollars & the stock is significantly below the first trade price. IBM hasn’t 
been a great investment over the last 10, but you can always pick a time frame 
for every stock where it doesn’t perform. MSFT stock did nothing from 1999 til 
2016.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, April 17, 2023, 10:20 AM, zMan  wrote:

https://www.fool.com/investing/2023/04/17/if-you-had-invested-1-in-ibm-in-2013-this-is-h/

TL;DR: Less than $10,000.
-- 
zMan -- "I've got a mainframe and I'm not afraid to use it"

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Re: cyberark efforts

[Bill Johnson]

We used Cyberark at a former employer. Starting around 2014 or 15. Our security 
department, none of whom had mainframe experience, chose it to solve a problem 
we didn’t have. I’m pretty sure the head of security read about it on a flight. 
Or an auditor did. It slows down everything on the MF. In emergency situations, 
it makes it harder to solve them in a timely manner. Every group had a 
workaround which circumvented the purpose of the software. There isn’t anything 
Cyberark does that can’t be done on the mainframe. What it does do is put the 
Cyberark administrator in charge of your staff. Not what I’d call smart. They 
just started a DR test. Already had a big delay in getting the proper Cyberark 
security to do the restores. As my contact there said an hour ago, it’s a 
cluster.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Monday, April 24, 2023, 3:35 PM, Mark Jacobs 
<0224d287a4b1-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

Sorry. I have no idea how the whole thing works from an infrastructure POV. I'm 
just a user, these were my observations at my $currentjob.

Mark Jacobs 

Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.

GPG Public Key - 
https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com


--- Original Message ---
On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 2:48 PM, Patrick Loftus 
 wrote:


> Hi,
> I gather there is no supplied connector specific to z/OS.
> Does your site use SSH to connect to z/OS and reset passwords, or do you have 
> an in-house written connector?
> Thanks
> 
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU On Behalf Of 
> Mark Jacobs
> 
> Sent: Monday, April 24, 2023 6:05 PM
> To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU
> Subject: Re: cyberark efforts
> 
> Yes. Once a day, or when my checked out password expires I sign on to 
> Cyberark and checkout the new password. I then can use that to logon to any 
> system regardless of the RACF database it uses.
> 
> Mark Jacobs
> 
> Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> 
> GPG Public Key - 
> https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjac...@protonmail.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> --- Original Message ---
> On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 1:02 PM, Bill Giannelli 
> billgianne...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> 
> 
> > kept in sync with cyberark?
> > On Mon, 24 Apr 2023 16:55:24 +, Mark Jacobs markjac...@protonmail.com 
> > wrote:
> > 
> > > We have multiple RACF databases, the passwords are all kept in sync via 
> > > RRSF links. One userid/one password.
> > > 
> > > Mark Jacobs
> > > 
> > > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > > 
> > > GPG Public Key -
> > > https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjacobs@proton
> > > mail.com
> > > 
> > > --- Original Message ---
> > > On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at 12:29 PM, Bill Giannelli 
> > > billgianne...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > 
> > > > do you share groups of accounts? Or do you have a one to one ids? 
> > > > cyberark id to racf id?
> > > > On Mon, 24 Apr 2023 16:23:15 +, Mark Jacobs 
> > > > markjac...@protonmail.com wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > > We use CyberArk for all privileged accounts, including z/OS.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mark Jacobs
> > > > > 
> > > > > Sent from ProtonMail, Swiss-based encrypted email.
> > > > > 
> > > > > GPG Public Key -
> > > > > https://api.protonmail.ch/pks/lookup?op=get=markjacobs@pr
> > > > > otonmail.com
> > > > > 
> > > > > --- Original Message --- On Monday, April 24th, 2023 at
> > > > > 12:15 PM, Bill Giannelli billgianne...@gmail.com wrote:
> > > > > 
> > > > > > our company is pushing forward with cyberark for all platforms.
> > > > > > the statement was made that cyberark and the like are becoming the 
> > > > > > industry standard.
> > > > > > Is that true for z/OS systems?
> > > > > > thanks
> > > > > > Bill
> > > > > > 
> > > > > > --
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Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]

[Bill Johnson]

I have a math major, studied Accounting in college before switching to Criminal 
Justice then later to computer science & math. Then as my number 1 hobby, 
learned the stock market from a guy who was on the cover of Barron’s magazine 
and invested rather wisely over the last 40 years. I made 1 mistake. The 
internet bubble. But, recovered it all back and then some.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 7, 2023, 9:48 AM, Joe Monk  wrote:

"I know more about banking than you know it alls."

You dont know what you dont know.

Joe

On Thu, Apr 6, 2023 at 9:16 PM Bill Johnson <
0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:

> I know more about banking than you know it alls. Already proved Crayford
> wrong regarding the challenger banks. And ING dropped their mainframe as
> their stock price is cut in half the last 20 years. Explain the complex
> reasons or are you making that up too?
>
>
> Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
> On Thursday, April 6, 2023, 10:11 PM, Doug  wrote:
>
> For alot more complex reasons than your simplistic view of banking.
> Perhaps some time learning real banking might help. Or some
> macroeconomics to go along with it. I've made plenty over the years on
> the right bank investments. And took some risks with others. But I
> actually understand the business.
> And despite your pronouncement, plenty of retail banks are quite
> profitable.
>
> Doug Fuerst
> d...@bkassociates.net
>
> -- Original Message --
> From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> Sent: 06-Apr-23 20:19:39
> Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
> value]
>
> >I did. Mellon Bank during the transition from retail bank to investment
> bank. Retail banking sucks for profits. That’s why Citi is selling for 6
> times earnings. ING stock would have lost you a ton of money over the last
> 20 years. Why are bank stocks selling at a huge discount to the market?
> >
> >
> >Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >
> >
> >On Thursday, April 6, 2023, 8:06 PM, Doug  wrote:
> >
> >Maybe you should have actually worked in retail banking, which clearly,
> >you never have.
> >
> >
> >Doug Fuerst
> >d...@bkassociates.net
> >
> >-- Original Message --
> >From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
> >To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
> >Sent: 06-Apr-23 19:16:58
> >Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
> >value]
> >
> >>Like I said, there’s little money in retail banking. And zero money to
> be made in challenger banking. It’s why they are all shrinking or closed.
> Mellon bank saw this 20+ years ago. ING & others are focusing more on
> investment banking. Mostly for the high net worth people but also people in
> our financial arena. It’s why Bank of America agreed to take on Merrill
> Lynch in 2008 during the meltdown. And still can’t make much money because
> of their focus on retail banking. Wells Fargo got fined a bundle for trying
> to rip off consumers because there’s little money in retail banking. Most
> banks are trying to get into investment banking where significant money can
> be made. Quasi Goldman Sachs or Morgan Stanley like.
> >>
> >>You can see how precarious the economy is for retail banking companies
> by how quickly they can become insolvent. Even a bank considered excellent
> because of their clientele like SVB. Then Credit Suisse almost went belly
> up until UBS saved them. Deutsche Bank isn’t exactly a bastion of
> profitability either. Citibank almost went belly up in 2008. One of the
> largest banks in the world. Anyone who claims banking, especially retail
> banking is a profit generating machine is not paying attention.
> >>
> >>
> >>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
> >>
> >>
> >>On Thursday, April 6, 2023, 6:07 PM, René Jansen <
> rene.vincent.jan...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>
> >>They will be disappointed if they hear that, there are a fusion between
> Rijkspostspaarbank, NMB (Nederlansche Middenstandsbank, Postcheque en
> Girodienst, and Nationale Nederlanden. They are a very large bank in the
> Netherlands. And yes they are off the mainframe, running a lot of mainframe
> stuff on Micro Focus.
> >>
> >>best regards,
> >>
> >>René.
> >>
> >>>  On 7 Apr 2023, at 00:01, Bill Johnson <
> 0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu> wrote:
> >>>
> >>>  ING isn’t a bank either.
> >>>
> >>
> >

Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]

[Bill Johnson]

Exactly right. Which describes many here.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 7, 2023, 6:13 PM, Frank Swarbrick 
 wrote:

No one knows as little as one who think's he knows it all.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Doug 
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 12:14 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]

"Seldom right, but never uncertain." Frank Reagan.

Describing you, I'd venture


Doug Fuerst


-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 13:36:27
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
value]

>You don’t really understand Twitter do you? If I follow the WaPo, the NYT, the 
>Guardian, the LA Times, the Miami Herald, the Associated Press, Al Jazeera 
>English, NPR, PBS, BBC, and science magazines, scientists, journalists, 
>lawyers, and other fact based sources, it’s like subscribing to them all.
>
>Add in some comedy sources and that’s my Twitter feed.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 10:32 AM, Doug  wrote:
>
>So you get your "news" from Twitter. For me, that explains ALOT!
>
>Doug Fuerst
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
>Sent: 07-Apr-23 8:23:03
>Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
>value]
>
>>I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indicates LinkedIn has a 
>>problem with embellished & fake resumes. Here’s one.
>>
>>https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/29/linkedin-has-a-fake-profile-problem-can-it-fix-this-blot-on-its-cv
>>
>>I also don’t like having my information on the internet for all to see. I’m 
>>not on Facebook, Tiktok, Instagram, but do use Twitter to satisfy my news 
>>junkie inner self.
>>
>>
>>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 7:32 AM, Jeremy Nicoll 
>> wrote:
>>
>>On Fri, 7 Apr 2023, at 05:36, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>>  Yes Bill Johnson is my real name and I’ve never been on LinkedIn.
>>>  That’s just an ego trip and place where people like you go for
>>>  confirmation...
>>
>>I've certainly seen some people use it as an ego-trip, for "networking"
>>and - presumably - trying to increase their chances of finding work.
>>
>>I use LinkedIn as a useful place to find out more about people whom
>>I'm going to have contact with (in any sphere, certainly not just in
>>computing).  It's particularly useful when it's not entirely clear from
>>some company's website whether they've got tens/hundreds of
>>employees or just one person working from home. (In the UK) I also
>>look at Companies House registrations of companies, who the directors
>>are etc, and look at what else they're involved in, and especially if any
>>of their prior businesses have gone under or they've been prosecuted
>>for anything.
>>
>>Eg, is that lawyer someone who's worked for one or two companies
>>for many years, or a whole string of places, never for more than a
>>year or two, or did they only qualify last year?
>>
>>Is that "data protection officer" someone with any understanding of
>>how computer systems work, or just an administrator, or a lawyer?
>>
>>Knowing more about people allows one to slant emails to them in
>>differing ways, which can be useful.
>>
>>
>>I'm listed there, but not for the purposes of finding work; mainly so
>>that people whom I once worked with have a better chance of finding
>>me if they want to.  And also - you have to be a member to be able
>>to see other people's profiles.
>>
>>--
>>Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
>>
>>--
>>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>--
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>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>

Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by value]

[Bill Johnson]

My bet is you watch Fox.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 7, 2023, 2:14 PM, Doug  wrote:

"Seldom right, but never uncertain." Frank Reagan.

Describing you, I'd venture


Doug Fuerst


-- Original Message --
From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
Sent: 07-Apr-23 13:36:27
Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by 
value]

>You don’t really understand Twitter do you? If I follow the WaPo, the NYT, the 
>Guardian, the LA Times, the Miami Herald, the Associated Press, Al Jazeera 
>English, NPR, PBS, BBC, and science magazines, scientists, journalists, 
>lawyers, and other fact based sources, it’s like subscribing to them all.
>
>Add in some comedy sources and that’s my Twitter feed.
>
>
>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>
>
>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 10:32 AM, Doug  wrote:
>
>So you get your "news" from Twitter. For me, that explains ALOT!
>
>Doug Fuerst
>
>
>-- Original Message --
>From: "Bill Johnson" <0047540adefe-dmarc-requ...@listserv.ua.edu>
>To: IBM-MAIN@listserv.ua.edu
>Sent: 07-Apr-23 8:23:03
>Subject: Re: Stop the ragging on COBOL please [was: RE: ASM call by
>value]
>
>>I’ve read numerous articles and analysis that indicates LinkedIn has a 
>>problem with embellished & fake resumes. Here’s one.
>>
>>https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/oct/29/linkedin-has-a-fake-profile-problem-can-it-fix-this-blot-on-its-cv
>>
>>I also don’t like having my information on the internet for all to see. I’m 
>>not on Facebook, Tiktok, Instagram, but do use Twitter to satisfy my news 
>>junkie inner self.
>>
>>
>>Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone
>>
>>
>>On Friday, April 7, 2023, 7:32 AM, Jeremy Nicoll 
>> wrote:
>>
>>On Fri, 7 Apr 2023, at 05:36, Bill Johnson wrote:
>>>  Yes Bill Johnson is my real name and I’ve never been on LinkedIn.
>>>  That’s just an ego trip and place where people like you go for
>>>  confirmation...
>>
>>I've certainly seen some people use it as an ego-trip, for "networking"
>>and - presumably - trying to increase their chances of finding work.
>>
>>I use LinkedIn as a useful place to find out more about people whom
>>I'm going to have contact with (in any sphere, certainly not just in
>>computing).  It's particularly useful when it's not entirely clear from
>>some company's website whether they've got tens/hundreds of
>>employees or just one person working from home. (In the UK) I also
>>look at Companies House registrations of companies, who the directors
>>are etc, and look at what else they're involved in, and especially if any
>>of their prior businesses have gone under or they've been prosecuted
>>for anything.
>>
>>Eg, is that lawyer someone who's worked for one or two companies
>>for many years, or a whole string of places, never for more than a
>>year or two, or did they only qualify last year?
>>
>>Is that "data protection officer" someone with any understanding of
>>how computer systems work, or just an administrator, or a lawyer?
>>
>>Knowing more about people allows one to slant emails to them in
>>differing ways, which can be useful.
>>
>>
>>I'm listed there, but not for the purposes of finding work; mainly so
>>that people whom I once worked with have a better chance of finding
>>me if they want to.  And also - you have to be a member to be able
>>to see other people's profiles.
>>
>>--
>>Jeremy Nicoll - my opinions are my own.
>>
>>--
>>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>--
>>For IBM-MAIN subscribe / signoff / archive access instructions,
>>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>--
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>send email to lists...@listserv.ua.edu with the message: INFO IBM-MAIN
>
>
>
>
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Re: Not aging well (know-it-alls)

[Bill Johnson]

I’m well aware when I don’t know something. Please list the things I’ve stated 
that weren’t true.


Sent from Yahoo Mail for iPhone


On Friday, April 7, 2023, 11:28 PM, Frank Swarbrick 
 wrote:

The first one is iffy, but the second one can be absolutely true.  It's best to 
at least know when one doesn't know something.

From: IBM Mainframe Discussion List  on behalf of 
Matt Hogstrom 
Sent: Friday, April 7, 2023 7:17 PM
To: IBM-MAIN@LISTSERV.UA.EDU 
Subject: Re: Not aging well (know-it-alls)

Your comment wasn’t directed at my but it made me think of two of my favorite 
phrases.

"I’m proud of my humility."

“I’m smart enough to know how dumb I can be.”

Enjoy the Easter weekend all y’all.

Matt Hogstrom

“It may be cognitive, but, it ain’t intuitive."
— Hogstrom



>
> Are you also modest, or are you vain?


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