Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Saturday, March 16, 2013 1:42:29 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > What does the popularity of porn and gossip have to do with the >> capacity of computers to think and feel? >> > > I have no idea, but that's one of the best Zen Koans I've eve

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Mar 14, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > What does the popularity of porn and gossip have to do with the capacity > of computers to think and feel? > I have no idea, but that's one of the best Zen Koans I've ever heard. There is no other logical conclusion to make given the FACT that

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, March 14, 2013 11:38:10 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > >> There is no other logical conclusion to make given the FACT that if >>> your brain chemistry changes your emotions change, AND if your emotions >>> change

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 6:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> There is no other logical conclusion to make given the FACT that if your >> brain chemistry changes your emotions change, AND if your emotions change >> your brain chemistry changes. >> > > > So if I type comments on my computer and I see y

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wednesday, March 13, 2013 1:14:00 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > Your view is that emotion must be local to the brain >> > > There is no other logical conclusion to make given the FACT that if your > brain chemistry changes your emotions cha

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Mon, Mar 11, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > Your view is that emotion must be local to the brain > There is no other logical conclusion to make given the FACT that if your brain chemistry changes your emotions change, AND if your emotions change your brain chemistry changes. > There is no evi

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Monday, March 11, 2013 1:52:54 PM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> > There is no evidence to support the locality of emotional experience to >> neurochemistry, >> > > Change the brain chemistry and emotions ALWAYS change, change the emotions >

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Sun, Mar 10, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > There is no evidence to support the locality of emotional experience to > neurochemistry, > Change the brain chemistry and emotions ALWAYS change, change the emotions and the brain chemistry ALWAYS changes; evidence just doesn't get any better than

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Sunday, March 10, 2013 11:57:16 AM UTC-4, John Clark wrote: > > On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > > What I am saying though is that even a perfect correlation does not mean >> direct causation. Everyone has a brain and a heart, but that doesn't mean >> the brain causes the heart

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > What I am saying though is that even a perfect correlation does not mean > direct causation. Everyone has a brain and a heart, but that doesn't mean > the brain causes the heart. > Up to now whenever we observe a fully functioning human brain we also o

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Saturday, March 9, 2013 1:01:50 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > > On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 , Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> who would vow never to change their views? >> > > The religious faithful. > I'm not sure I would say that is "their" view, so much as the view of an institution, but fair

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/9/2013 1:12 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 Telmo Menezes > wrote: > Stephen Hawking can look at someone doing it and eventually figure it out, and then instruct me to do exactly what he says and unclog the toilet. The sad, very sad, f

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 Telmo Menezes wrote: > Stephen Hawking can look at someone doing it and eventually figure it > out, and then instruct me to do exactly what he says and unclog the toilet. > The sad, very sad, fact is that without computers Stephen Hawking couldn't instruct you about anything

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/9/2013 1:01 AM, John Clark wrote: On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 , Craig Weinberg > wrote: who would vow never to change their views? The religious faithful. Dear John, Could you consider the possibility that the "religiously faithful" are actually bots ca

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 , Craig Weinberg wrote: > who would vow never to change their views? > The religious faithful. >> By simple logic the answer has to be yes if the following conditions are >> met. If whenever a traffic jam happens the sun goes down and whenever the >> sun goes down a traffic

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Mar 7, 2013 Telmo Menezes wrote: > Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and I > don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for > Valentine's, but she keeps telling me that she doesn't want them. Can you > give me some advice? > Watson:

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 07 Mar 2013, at 23:37, Telmo Menezes wrote: Alex Trebek: This tool can unclog a toilet. Watson: What is a plunger? Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and I don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for Valentine's, but she keeps telling

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/7/2013 5:37 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Alex Trebek: This tool can unclog a toilet. Watson: What is a plunger? Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and I don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for Valentine's, but she keeps telling me that

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, March 7, 2013 5:37:55 PM UTC-5, telmo_menezes wrote: > > > Alex Trebek: This tool can unclog a toilet. > > Watson: What is a plunger? > > Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and > I don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/7/2013 2:37 PM, Telmo Menezes wrote: Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and I don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for Valentine's, but she keeps telling me that she doesn't want them. Can you give me some advice? Also, how does it f

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

> Alex Trebek: This tool can unclog a toilet. > Watson: What is a plunger? Telmo Menezes: look Watson, I have a problem. My wife is mad at me and I don't know why. I suspect it's because I didn't buy her flowers for Valentine's, but she keeps telling me that she doesn't want them. Can you give me

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, March 7, 2013 4:16:40 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > >>> Everything simulated is physical ultimately, but the physical has no signs of being a simulation, >>> >>> >> Maybe, but I'm not sure what sort of sign you

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 3:27 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >>> Everything simulated is physical ultimately, but the physical has no >>> signs of being a simulation, >>> >> >> >> Maybe, but I'm not sure what sort of sign you're talking about and >> some have said only half joking that Black Holes, part

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, March 7, 2013 12:12:31 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> > but back in the days of my awesome Atari 800 computer, there was a >> program called S.A.M. which sounded like this: >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nqixe3WrQ >> >> Now

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wed, Mar 6, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > but back in the days of my awesome Atari 800 computer, there was a > program called S.A.M. which sounded like this: > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k7nqixe3WrQ > > Now, 31 years later, we have this: > http://www.acapela-group.com/text-to-speech-int

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 6:00:48 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 3/6/2013 4:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: > > On 3/6/2013 10:45 AM, John Clark wrote: > > "I just saw the movie "Beowulf", it's a pretty good movie but what is of > interest is the stunning advance in animation achieved b

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/6/2013 4:18 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/6/2013 10:45 AM, John Clark wrote: "I just saw the movie "Beowulf", it's a pretty good movie but what is of interest is the stunning advance in animation achieved by good old Moore's Law. There were times when I could swear I was looking at a real huma

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/6/2013 10:45 AM, John Clark wrote: "I just saw the movie "Beowulf", it's a pretty good movie but what is of interest is the stunning advance in animation achieved by good old Moore's Law. There were times when I could swear I was looking at a real human being not something a computer produc

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wednesday, March 6, 2013 1:45:17 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:03 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > Everything simulated is physical ultimately, but the physical has no >> signs of being a simulation, >> > > Maybe, but I'm not sure what sort of sign you're t

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/6/2013 1:45 PM, John Clark wrote: "I just saw the movie "Beowulf", it's a pretty good movie but what is of interest is the stunning advance in animation achieved by good old Moore's Law. There were times when I could swear I was looking at a real human being not something a computer produc

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Tuesday, March 5, 2013 1:16:59 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> > No software can be run without being grounded in physical hardware, >> > > And no human mind can exist without a physical brain. > I wasn't trying to differentiate machines

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Mon, Mar 4, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: > > No software can be run without being grounded in physical hardware, > And no human mind can exist without a physical brain. > and no software can be completely sequestered from any other software > And human ideas cannot no that's not right

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 04 Mar 2013, at 17:06, John Clark wrote: On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: >> As I've said before it's important not to confuse levels, a simulated flame won't burn your computer but it will burn a simulated object. > No, that argument is bogus. There is only one physical le

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Monday, March 4, 2013 11:06:46 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 Craig Weinberg >wrote: > > >> As I've said before it's important not to confuse levels, a simulated >>> flame won't burn your computer but it will burn a simulated object. >>> >> >> > No, that argument is bog

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

> In physics we sometimes get big numbers, like 10^88 or 10^120, but we never need 10^120 + 1. When we use the known laws of Quantum Mechanics to calculate the strength of Dark Energy it gives us a value that is ABOUT 10^120 times larger than the value we actually observe. So a successful Theory o

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Fri, Mar 1, 2013 Craig Weinberg wrote: >> As I've said before it's important not to confuse levels, a simulated >> flame won't burn your computer but it will burn a simulated object. >> > > > No, that argument is bogus. There is only one physical level. > HOW THE HELL DO YOU KNOW?! And even

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 03 Mar 2013, at 01:46, meekerdb wrote: On 3/2/2013 1:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 21:02, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In physics we sometimes get big numbers, like 10^88 or 10^120, but we never need 10^120 + 1. But physics is no more a

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 02 Mar 2013, at 21:58, meekerdb wrote: On 3/2/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 20:37, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerd

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/2/2013 1:37 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 21:02, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In physics we sometimes get big numbers, like 10^88 or 10^120, but we never need 10^120 + 1. But physics is no more assumed in the TOE derived from comp. I'll be

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/2/2013 1:18 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 20:37, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P.

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:02:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 4:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, March 1, 2013 7:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 3/1/2013 3:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:32:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 21:02, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In physics we sometimes get big numbers, like 10^88 or 10^120, but we never need 10^120 + 1. But physics is no more assumed in the TOE derived from comp. I'll bet you've never needed to calculate 10^120

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 20:37, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Cl

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 20:03, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:41:52 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:23:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 01:11, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursd

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 17:17, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory exp

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:58, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this? Sure. Can you prove i

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 5:04 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 3/1/2013 4:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put toge

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 4:57 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 7:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 3:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:32:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 4:32 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put together or in what order, they are still alw

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 7:47:14 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 3:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:32:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >>>

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:37:41 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > All that matters is that we understand that there is no presentation >> quality to a file. Presentation is 100% in the interpreter. >> > > And a computer can be a

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 3:38 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:32:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It doesn't matter how

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 4:32:54 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put together or

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 4:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > All that matters is that we understand that there is no presentation > quality to a file. Presentation is 100% in the interpreter. > And a computer can be and often is the interpreter. > You are really saying that we could use a program th

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 12:52 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put together or in what order, they are still always going to be empty, mindless mecha

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:33:03 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put together or in what > order, they are still always going to be empty, mindless mechanisms. > > > Repeated assertions aren't evidenc

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 12:20 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: It doesn't matter how many knee-jerk twitches you put together or in what order, they are still always going to be empty, mindless mechanisms. Repeated assertions aren't evidence. Brent -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 3:10:30 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 11:03 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > If we have some written characters is it possible to categorize them > optically, but > > these categories don't lead to discovery of any phonetic information. > > Sure they do. Just t

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 11:03 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: If we have some written characters is it possible to categorize them optically, but these categories don't lead to discovery of any phonetic information. Sure they do. Just try http://www.naturalreaders.com/howto.php?referp=mainbar Likewise, phone

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 9:20 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: In physics we sometimes get big numbers, like 10^88 or 10^120, but we never need 10^120 + 1. But physics is no more assumed in the TOE derived from comp. I'll bet you've never needed to calculate 10^120 + 1 in the world whose TOE is derived from co

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 8:55 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, C

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:41:52 PM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:23:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: >> >> >> On 01 Mar 2013, at 01:11, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 8:17 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all indicated from math or computation, and derives solely fro

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:42, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:23:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 01 Mar 2013, at 01:11, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You have no way of k

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:37, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't think that what you ask is possible, even if I am pretty sure that x + 0 = x, x + s(y) = s(x + y), etc. I'm not at all sure that there is successor for every x. Then you adopt ultrafinitism, and in

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 16:28, meekerdb wrote: On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic l

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:58:34 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all >> indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory >> experiences of shapes. Can you dispute

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 7:48 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: The point of this thread was to show that even geometry is not at all indicated from math or computation, and derives solely from sensory experiences of shapes. Can you dispute this? Sure. Can you prove it? Prove what, that geomet

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:39:05 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 3/1/2013 3:09 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:46:55 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/28/2013 5:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrot

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 10:23:24 AM UTC-5, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 01 Mar 2013, at 01:11, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> You have no way of knowing what I can't know abou

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 3:09 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:46:55 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 5:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday,

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 7:05 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: I don't think that what you ask is possible, even if I am pretty sure that x + 0 = x, x + s(y) = s(x + y), etc. I'm not at all sure that there is successor for every x. Then you adopt ultrafinitism, and indeed comp does not make sense with such hypot

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 3/1/2013 7:13 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic law of l

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 01 Mar 2013, at 01:11, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you either. You have no way of knowing what ways I have of knowing what you know ab

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 28 Feb 2013, at 20:29, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X is not not Y then X is gibberish, > X = alcohol

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 28 Feb 2013, at 19:09, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:03:40 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 28 Feb 2013, at 19:03, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 21:40, meek

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 28 Feb 2013, at 14:58, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: You are assuming that justification comes from logic; and indeed it is too much to expect from such a weak source. I look for such "justification" as can

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Friday, March 1, 2013 12:46:55 AM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/28/2013 5:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> >> >> On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Bren

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 5:30 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You have n

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 8:01:48 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > > > On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: >> >> On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: >> >> You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 4:48 PM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 2:29 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic law of logi

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 4:11 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you either. You have no way of knowing what ways I have of knowing what you kn

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 2:29 PM, meekerdb wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg mailto:whatsons...@gmail.com>> wrote: >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X is not not

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 5:37:50 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you either. > > > You have no way of knowing what ways I have of knowing what you know about > what ways John knows of having w

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 1:50 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: You have no way of knowing what I can't know about you either. You have no way of knowing what ways I have of knowing what you know about what ways John knows of having ways of knowing about what you can know...either. :-) Brent blather, n. strings

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 3:52:59 PM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote > > >>> Even if it could [ tell the difference between a audio and a video file] that would only represent a more advanced file analysis function, not

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thu, Feb 28, 2013 at 11:43 AM, Craig Weinberg wrote >>> Even if it could [ tell the difference between a audio and a video >>> file] that would only represent a more advanced file analysis function, not >>> any kind of audio or video sensitivity. >>> >> >> >> Please explain the difference betwe

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 10:59 AM, Stephen P. King wrote: On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X is not not Y then X is gibberish, > X = alc

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

Thanks. I think you pretty much covered it :) On Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:59:55 PM UTC-5, Stephen Paul King wrote: > > On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > >> >> >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y a

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 10:33 AM, John Clark wrote: On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg > wrote: >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X is not not Y then X is gibberish, > X = alcohol Y = poison. becomes "alcohol is not p

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 1:03:40 PM UTC-5, Brent wrote: > > On 2/28/2013 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: > > On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: > > > On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: > > On 2/27/2013 2:59 AM, Bruno Marc

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 4:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 21:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/26/2013 1:24 AM, Bruno Mar

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Thursday, February 28, 2013 10:08:07 AM UTC-5, John Clark wrote: > > On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Craig Weinberg > > > wrote: > > > Even if it could [ tell the difference between a audio and a video file] >> that would only represent a more advanced file analysis function, not any >> k

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:48 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > > >> It is a basic law of logic that if X is not Y and X is not not Y then X >> is gibberish, >> > > > X = alcohol Y = poison. > becomes "alcohol is not poison and alcohol isn't not poison" > Exactly, and 2 negatives, like "isn't not" can

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:33 PM, Craig Weinberg wrote: > Even if it could [ tell the difference between a audio and a video file] > that would only represent a more advanced file analysis function, not any > kind of audio or video sensitivity. > Please explain the difference between the two. >>

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/28/2013 7:46 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: You are assuming that justification comes from logic; and indeed it is too much to expect from such a weak source. I look for such "justification" as can be found from experience, which you demoted to mere "

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 28 Feb 2013, at 05:04, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 21:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/26/2013 1:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How did number arise? We don't

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

John, Allow me please, one more remark: I allow you an infinity of remarks. But not one more :) my ID for an axiom is a "ground-rule" derived to facilitate the acceptance of a theory. Hmm... That is not the standard idea. An axiom is simply an hypothesis. Like the hypothesis that the

Re: Comp: Geometry Is A Zombie

On 2/27/2013 7:17 PM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 27 Feb 2013, at 20:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/27/2013 2:59 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: On 26 Feb 2013, at 21:40, meekerdb wrote: On 2/26/2013 1:24 AM, Bruno Marchal wrote: How did number arise? We don't know that, but we can show that if we don't

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