Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Uh. I hate that accent. - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT I'm just the opposite. If I have to use Eloquence I use the UK accent since the American accent is the one that sounds odd to me. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, I totally agree with you with the UK accent, which is precisely why I use the US accent. To be honest I prefer the American accents in speech synths anyway. Again, because that's what I've always used. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Hmmm, the thing is though Jacob, what about startrek or babylon 5 where the computer has an obviously female synth voice? In fact a lot of old scifi tended to have them I think (there were certainly a few in dr. who). Then of course there were the old robotic voices which quite honestly didn't have! a gender. this was imho one of the things which made the original cybermen from the 2nd doctor era and the daleks so inhuman. In fact even now, though the cybermen have changed to sound deffinately male, Daleks are stil referd to as "it" and other than the emperor aren't said to have a gender at all. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 6:00 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT My one possible guess would be that, maybe it has something to do with old visions of technology - talking computer should sound like/sounds better when it sounds like a guy from some movie like revenge of the nerds...? Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT This is a very weerd point, even a female friend I know says the same thing as well. I'm sure freud would have a field day with it, though as this is supposed to be a family friendly list I won't start speculating on what he might've said ;d. The deffinition of a freudian slip: "Say one thing and mean your mother!" ;D. Btw, I can't speak for the kepstral or at&T voices sinse I'm not familiar enough with them, but I've even found this with amazingly good synths like the seerprock ones which are some of the best I know. That's why I tend to stick with scansoft daniel and his nice, bbc news reader voice ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Very interesting. Generally I've found the same problem. I would prefer a female Sapi voice, but most of them just strike me as wrong. Accapela Heather is not bad and AT&T Lorn is okay as well. Some of the others like Scansoft Samantha just sounds like a stuck up old laidy, and is a major turn off. Cepstral Dianne is good for reading books, but some of Cepstral's voices like Amy and Emily are ssimply aweful. However, more often the male voices like David, Walter, Mike, etc are okay. I can listen to them all day with no problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Arc Tangent vs bearing
Hey Rynhardt! Yes, you're right and thanks for posting. :) It's funny as I'd tried this method some time ago with a GPS app I'm working on and it seemed to fail at times in that context, (which is why I posted mine) so I chalked it up to my blonde sleep-deprived brain at the time! lol! -So I'd abandoned it in favor of my more round-about way, but there ya go. I'm glad I'm a way better model than mathematician! lol! -Actually to be fair, I tend to think in working with data after it is output rather than manipulating it as it is input, so it's not always my strong suit. :) Thanks again for confirming though. this brings up a good point though. Some languages actually do reverse these parameters natively so it's really important to know which ones do so that you can understand / work with your results. Have a great evening! You rock!… Smiles, Cara :) On Jan 19, 2011, at 2:24 PM, Rynhardt Kruger wrote: Hi Cara, One thing I've found is that you can get the same result by swapping the arguments to atan2. Using your variable names, angle=atan2(vectorX,vectorY)*180/M_PI; if (angle<0) angle+=360; Take care, Rynhardt * Cara Quinn [110119 23:47]: > Thomas et al; > > It occurred to me, that during our last discussion of 3D mapping etc, that > you'd asked how I was converting my arc tangent result to a bearing with zero > being north and degrees ascending clockwise. Here's how I do it. this is my > own way, and is only for a flat plane which is perfect for games. There are > other formulae out there, but they take into account earth curvature. This is > not as elegant as I'd like, but is less expensive than other formulae. > -Perhaps someone else knows of a better formula?? -Would love to hear!? :) > > Anyway, this way is very simple. Hope it helps! :) > > Smiles, > > Cara :) > > // x1, y1 is the user's origin and x2, y2 is the point you're trying to get > the angle to. > > // subtract the remote point from your origin > // it's important to do this in this order or the result will be opposite > what you want > // I.E. 270 degrees instead of 90 etc > > double vectorX = x2 - x1; > double vectorY = y2 - y1; > > // get the angle in degrees between the two points > > double angle = (atan2(vectorY, vectorX) * 180 / 3.1415926535); > > // get the value in the proper negative range > > angle-= 450; > > // switch to positive so that degrees will ascend clockwise as with a > proper heading > > angle = angle * -1; > > // round off result so modulus will be accurate > > angle = round(angle); > > // use modulus of 360 to get result in the proper range > > angle = (int)angle % 360; > > // return the result; > > return angle; > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] marvel vs. capcom 3 release date!
For anyone who doesn't already have this. The long-awaited sequel to Marvel Vs. Capcom 2, released all the way back in 2000, is finally less than a month away. MVC 3 will hit shelves on February 15th, 2011, for ps3 and xbox360. I have my order placed already, and can't wait to get it. I'll try and post something either the day of or the day after I get the game. Either way I'll record me popping in the disc for the first time. This is a must-have for anyone who is a fan of fighting games. Here's some gameplay recently released, featuring Mike Hagger, one of the protagonists from Capcom's final fight, and Jean Grey, Aka Phoenix, from Marvel. There's one more character I'm sure of... but I'll leave that to you to figure out. It should be quite obvious. For those who find the pace of the game too fast, relax. The true reason it's hard to follow for the moment is because we don't know who is who. Having watched so many vids, I can follow things decently well now, even not knowing all the character voices. I know enough. lol. Here's the link to the gameplay. http://dl.dropbox.com/u/3394499/MVC3%20-%20Haggar%20%26%20Phoenix%20Gameplay%20Trailer%20%232.mp3 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
My one possible guess would be that, maybe it has something to do with old visions of technology - talking computer should sound like/sounds better when it sounds like a guy from some movie like revenge of the nerds...? Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT This is a very weerd point, even a female friend I know says the same thing as well. I'm sure freud would have a field day with it, though as this is supposed to be a family friendly list I won't start speculating on what he might've said ;d. The deffinition of a freudian slip: "Say one thing and mean your mother!" ;D. Btw, I can't speak for the kepstral or at&T voices sinse I'm not familiar enough with them, but I've even found this with amazingly good synths like the seerprock ones which are some of the best I know. That's why I tend to stick with scansoft daniel and his nice, bbc news reader voice ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Very interesting. Generally I've found the same problem. I would prefer a female Sapi voice, but most of them just strike me as wrong. Accapela Heather is not bad and AT&T Lorn is okay as well. Some of the others like Scansoft Samantha just sounds like a stuck up old laidy, and is a major turn off. Cepstral Dianne is good for reading books, but some of Cepstral's voices like Amy and Emily are ssimply aweful. However, more often the male voices like David, Walter, Mike, etc are okay. I can listen to them all day with no problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
This is a very weerd point, even a female friend I know says the same thing as well. I'm sure freud would have a field day with it, though as this is supposed to be a family friendly list I won't start speculating on what he might've said ;d. The deffinition of a freudian slip: "Say one thing and mean your mother!" ;D. Btw, I can't speak for the kepstral or at&T voices sinse I'm not familiar enough with them, but I've even found this with amazingly good synths like the seerprock ones which are some of the best I know. That's why I tend to stick with scansoft daniel and his nice, bbc news reader voice ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Very interesting. Generally I've found the same problem. I would prefer a female Sapi voice, but most of them just strike me as wrong. Accapela Heather is not bad and AT&T Lorn is okay as well. Some of the others like Scansoft Samantha just sounds like a stuck up old laidy, and is a major turn off. Cepstral Dianne is good for reading books, but some of Cepstral's voices like Amy and Emily are ssimply aweful. However, more often the male voices like David, Walter, Mike, etc are okay. I can listen to them all day with no problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
I completely agree tom and indeed am in a rather similar position where Hal is concerned, sinse though the initial license for version five was bought for me ten years ago as part of my university equipment grant, I've sinse then personally bought all the version upgrades myself out of my own money, though sinse starting my phd for complicated burocratic reasons I have managed to wangle a couple out of my disabled students allowence, though i didn't expect this. I'll quite probably be paying the 130 quid for Hal 12 in the next 18 months or so. Btw, yes, once you've bought the initial Hal license, it's yours forever and ever amen, on up to three machines, with new keys when you want them, and there's no need to rebuy it. In fact, while my brother has decided he's happy with windows default magnification and thus hasn't updated his supernova license in about nine years and is stil running version six, sinse my mum wishes a screen reader and magnifyer on her computer i've found that while roughly twice the price of a normal single version upgrade to bring it up to version 11, my brother's license is stil perfectly valid despite it being such a long time. The Jaws business about having to rebuy the license if you don't pay for version upgrades has always struck me as really quite strange, not to say rather stingy. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 2:37 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. It is just the everybody uses Jaws attitude that gets under my skin, because not everybody uses it. Yes, i have it, but only because it was paid for by a state agency when they were trying to help me get through college and find employment. It wasn't by personal choice. I have obtained another screen reader, Window-eyes, by personal choice so naturally I favor it more since I'm the guy who fit the bill for it and wanted it. To have someone snub my choice by using Jaws only would be an insult much as it would be to a Hal user like yourself. On 1/20/11, dark wrote: I agree completely tom, but I don't really think this is Philip's problem, afterall he's essentially just providing the tools for the job, not saying how people should use them. if someone did just write in Jaws support because they believed most people used jaws and were too lazy to change things, well it's up to myself and all the other none jaws users to point out to them that they're being a prat, as in fact I did when during my first examination of muds back in 2004, I asked about screen reader support and was sent a bunch of jaws script files, rather sad actually sinse this put me completely off muds at the time, but I now Know I could've run mushclient quite successfully with Sapi, especially sinse the particular mud I was trying to play was Alterean. The most Philip could do would be to write some advice in the bgt documentation, but whether people take it would be their own fault really. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. i do know exactly what you mean, though I've never played the nes batman game you mention (I have played the Mega drive one though0. I do stil have games like Final fight and Double dragon and stick them on occasionally precisely for the reason of just wanting someone to thump, however I find with Turrican the experience is so radically different. The game is simple, and the game's goal, blow up enemies, find power ups, look for the exit, is equally simple, however the execution of this is far more complex simply because the levels are such huge mazes. I'll frequently start a stage, initially go the same way I've been before then think, ooo, what's that crack in the wall? or "do I go left or right here, which way did I go before?" or "Hold on, there's a ledge up there, how do I get up to it?" thus there is always new teretory to explore and a great sense of freedom, of being able to literally find my way anywhere in the level, not just going left to right as in most games. Quite often I'll work damn hard to get somewhere, then find it is a dead end, or fall down what I believe to be a secret passage only to discover an abyss and lose a life, -but that is Turrican for you, and whenever I see "game over" it actually makes me want to try the level again, to see if I can find more extra lives and power ups to keep me going. As i said, shades of doom deffinately shared some of this feeling, particularly in not being restricted in progress, but I've yet to see an audio side scroller that even comes close. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 2:17 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Dark, Dark wrote: This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. My reply: Yeah, I definitely know the feeling. There is a lot that can be said for the walk along blow-m-up or walk along beat-m-up game like Turrican. Just start the game and play with no better goal in mind than to blow up, beat up, or otherwise kill as many baddies as humanly possible. There were a number of games of this type for the NES and SNES, and they were surprisingly fun despite lacking a game story, cut scenes, whatever. Like I was saying to Phil over on the USA Games list my son recently got hooked on the 1989 Batman game for the original NES. It is still one of the top downloads for NES roms, and has been declared one of the top 10 games for the NES platform. Besides extremely sharp graphics and animations for the time the game play is fantastic. There isn't much to the stages other than walking along beating up the Joker's thugs, but all that is made up for a well balanced combat system. It is challenging and you have to figure out if taking out an enemy is better with fists, batarang, or a rocket. It is both simple but highly challenging at the same time. That spells great replay value that has lasted for 22 years. To get back to my point I often wish I could just load up a game like that and play it like I use to. MOTA is a great game, but puzzle solving etc take brain power. Sometimes you just want to ggo out there and slug it out with some baddies for the heck of it. Double Dragon, Batman, and games of that sort give you that relief. You don't have to think about it, but can just punch, kick, and fight your way through the levels until you take on the big boss man. Dark wrote: There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. My reply: Yes, you are definitely right. That's one thing I was hoping to avoid with Mysteries of the Ancients. The game mechanics are just a little too automatic for my liking, and I want something a little more fluid and challenging. If you don't hold down the jump keys long enough poor Angela gets dumped in a fire, lava pit, lands on some spikes, etc. Jump too far and she over shoots a ledge and falls screaming to her death. These things are not at all unusual for mainstream games of the type you mentioned, but are almost non-existent in audio
Re: [Audyssey] Sorry bout that
Hi Ken, The message got sent. The problem was that it was larger than 10 KB and required specific moderator approval. So I didn't find it until tonight read it and approved it. On 1/20/11, Ken the Crazy wrote: > Well, guess the message just didn't get sent for some reason, so you got it > twice. > Ken Downey > President > DreamTechInteractive! > And, > Blind Comfort! > The pleasant way to experience massage! > It's the Caring > without the Staring! > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Jacob, as I said appologies. usualy I try not to discuss low vision games on an audio gaming list precisely for this reason, however in this case I felt the contrast was important. As to your friends, tell them to try http://www.turricanforever.de/ that site has all information about the game, all the extra levels and details on how to run them, pluss details of other Turrican windows remakes such as the graphically extremely appealing and very complex hurrican, which has features like more weapons, more puzles, more up to date graphics and more complex gameplay. Also, for a really nice experience you might want to check the soundbase there, sinse music has always been a major part of Turrican, and there are about as many fan produced music tracks as there are levels for the game, many of which are absolutely amazing! if I ever have the time to tinker with bgt and do something side scroller like, I actually had a plan to have a go at audio Turrican, especially sinse the creator has given permission for the original sounds, and name to be used in remakes so long as they are free, assuming Tom doesn't beat me to it first of course ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels No worries - was just wondering, and will, honestly most likely pass this on to some of my sighted friends, who might appreciate it, but FWIW, I am 100% blind, so I'll stick to other, entirely audio games... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Heli
I saw your messages. At 03:07 p.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: I sent a message to the list earlier today, but I'm not seeing it. Basically, I've begun a community project for all you programmers, sound and music designers. This is the first freeware open-source game the blind community has which uses 3d audio--or it better be. If it's not then I've worked my butt off reinventing the wheel.. It's coded in VB6 and uses directx 8. The game can be found at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13071564/heli.zip It's in very early public beta, and I probably am already working on any errors you find, but let me know about them anyway. Here is the manual. Welcome to Heli, the virtual toy helicopter you can fly! There has been much talk in the past about a game building project that many people can participate in. Well, I've begun one. Now, here's where the rubber meets the road. Here is where we'll see if gamers are all talk about this subject or if they add their own ideas. The game So far, here is the game, designed in VB6. Yes, it's archaic or whatever, but it's what I know. Wanna translate it? Go ahead. Anyway, the basic idea is that you and a friend just got a couple of those new battle copters, you know, the ones you fly around the house? Well, you're in a living room that's about ten feet high, and 20 by 20. You fly your chopper around the room, trying to shoot down your friend before he gets you. The Trim: Now, you're not the only one that flies this helicopter, because you have a young brother/sister/cousin that plays with it, so every time you start the game you'll need to adjust the trim to 0. To adjust it, use the home and end keys. When it gets to 0, the sound of the knob turning will change. If you don't adjust the trim, the helicopter will fly around in circles--which you may want to do sometimes. To fly, hold down the page up key to gain altitude. Since you're flying a helicopter, the faster the rotors turn, the higher it goes. As you increase in height, your velocity in that direction also increases. If you get going too fast you'll smash against the ceiling, and your chopper will fall. You get about ten smashes before it's unusable. Also, page down will slow the rotors, making the chopper descend. Now turn with the left and right arrow keys and fly forwards or backwards with the up and down arrows. You can show off to your friend by landing the chopper on your head, but that takes a lot of work and a little luck. If you're in range of your opponent, a target beep sounds, indicating that you're in range to shoot the other copter down. Turn with the left and right arrows until the beeps are in front of you, then shoot with the space bar. If you get him, it's your point--but if he shoots you down, it's his point. In either case, the shot chopper will float down to the ground, and both will respawn at their starting locations. The enemy chopper starts out very slow. It always comes after you, but the first little while it is slow. This allows you to adjust your trim, get used to flying and so on. Every time you shoot him though, he flies a bit faster. Eventually, he will outfly and outgun you no matter how good you think you are. Yep, another unbeatable game from DreamTech! (You wouldn't really wanna be able to win now, would ya?) Now, there are obstacles in the room, but you can smash 'em if you want. The first is a TV, which is playing some weird music when the game starts. To smash it, simply fly at an altitude of three feet or less, and go after it. More obstacles, such as lamps, are coming. Controls: Page up for ascend, page down for descend, home and end adjust trim, left and right arrows for turning, up and down arrows for moving, a says your current angle, x says your current coordinates, v says your velocity, and space bar fires your gun. Note: This game is not only to be a community project, but it's an early early beta. I've only been working on it for two weeks now, but there are many things to add and fix, such as the frequency of the targeting beeps. I know this, and I'll be working on them--but remember, you can too. Also, realize that working with 3d audio isn't nearly as easy as panning and volume--well, it wasn't in the beginning. Now though, that you have a foundation to build on, it should be very simple. I've included a book on programming vb6 that I found on the net, as well as a couple tutorials on 3d audio by Jack Hoxley. I want to encourage developers that programming isn't the only essential here. Sounds and music are crucial too, so if you want to make sounds or music but don't have a clue about programming, you can join in as well. The sound for Heli, your chopper, is basically a motor sound with the sound of a chain saw mixed in. The sky's the limit when it comes to imagination. (Yeah, I know it sounds silly, but wait till you hear it!) Ken Downey DTI Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractiv
Re: [Audyssey] Community Game-building Project
well I'd like to do some sfx and maybe other things, sertainly test the game. I think you really should shove this in the bgt thing if you want. ask keywasfull if you can get on his bgt folder then ask him for permision to use or look at his chopper code, its a bit like copter man chopper chace or whatever the game is called, but you should get an idea how to do things that way. just add sm.ever...@gmail.com to the dropbox. I may help with sfx, so we will see what happens. At 09:50 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: Well, there has been much talk in the past about a game building project that many people can participate in. Well, I've begun one. Now, here's where the rubber meets the road. Here is where we'll see if gamers are all talk about this subject or if they add their own ideas. The game So far, here is the game, designed in VB6. Yes, it's archaic or whatever, but it's what I know. Wanna translate it? Go ahead. Anyway, the basic idea is that you and a friend just got a couple of those new battle copters, you know, the ones you fly around the house? Well, you're in a living room that's about ten feet high, and 20 by 20. You fly your chopper around the room, trying to shoot down your friend before he gets you. The Trim: Now, you're not the only one that flies this helicopter, because you have a young brother/sister/cousin that plays with it, so every time you start the game you'll need to adjust the trim to 0. To adjust it, use the home and end keys. As you adjust it, you'll hear the clicking of a knob that seems to move around your head. When it gets to 0, the sound of the knob turning will change and be directly in front of you. To fly, hold down the page up key to gain altitude. Since you're flying a helicopter, the faster the rotors turn, the higher it goes. As you increase in height, your velocity in that direction also increases. If you get going too fast you'll smash against the ceiling, and your chopper will fall. You get about ten smashes before it's unusable. Also, page down will slow the rotors, making the chopper descend. You can show off to your friend by landing the chopper on your head, but that takes a lot of work and a little luck. Use left and right arrows to turn, and up and down arrows to fly forward and backward. If you're in range, a target beep sounds, indicating that you're in range to shoot the other copter down. Turn with the left and right arrows until the beeps are in front of you, then shoot with the space bar. If you get him, it's your point--but if he shoots you down, it's his point. In either case, the shot chopper will float down to the ground, and both will respawn at their starting locations, but will retain their former altitudes. The enemy chopper starts out very slow. It always comes after you, but the first little while it is slow. This allows you to adjust your trim, get used to flying and so on. Every time you shoot him though, he flies a bit faster. Eventually, he will outfly and outgun you no matter how good you think you are. Yep, another unbeatable game from DreamTech! (You wouldn't really wanna be able to win now, would ya?) Now, there are obstacles in the room, but you can smash 'em if you want. The first is a TV, which is playing some weird music when the game starts. To smash it, simply fly at an altitude of three feet or less, and go after it. More obstacles, such as lamps, are coming. Controls: Page up for ascend, page down for descend, home and end adjust trim, left and right arrows for turning, a says your current angle, x says your current coordinates, v says your velocity, and space bar fires your gun. Note: This game is not only to be a community project, but it's an early early beta. I've only been working on it for about two weeks now, but there are a couple things to fix. The ones I know are the frequency of the targeting beeps, and the way velocity is spoken--will be integers soon. I know this, and I'll be working on them--but remember, you can too. Also, realize that working with 3d audio isn't nearly as easy as panning and volume--well, it wasn't in the beginning. Now though, that you have a foundation to build on, it should be very simple. I've included a book on programming vb6 that I found on the net, as well as a couple tutorials on 3d audio by Jack Hoxley. Before I tell you where to get the file, I want to encourage developers that programming isn't the only essential here. Sounds and music are crucial too, so if you want to make sounds or music but don't have a clue about programming, you can join in as well. The sound for Heli, your chopper, is basically a motor sound with the sound of a chain saw mixed in. The sky's the limit when it comes to imagination. (Yeah, I know it sounds silly, but wait till you hear it!) OK. Here's the link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13071564/heli.zip Now, if you want to be a part of this, get a Dropbox accou
[Audyssey] Sorry bout that
Well, guess the message just didn't get sent for some reason, so you got it twice. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
well, with nvda you can also support synths like festival and piko. On Jan 20, 2011, at 1:49 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Shaun, > > And the point of NvDA support is? With NVDA you can choose from > ESpeak, which is Sapi compatible anyway, and/or any Sapi 5 voices. So > your logic is well I want to support this or that Sapi 5 voice but > instead of using Sapi directly I'll load NVDA and access Sapi remotely > rather than directly. That's dumb. You use more resources etc doing it > that way for no reason. > > Cheers! > > > > > On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: >> what about nvda with the nvda controler client dll. >> THats not gona be that hard to do, nvda doesn't block keys. > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
i think sapi support is already included . On Jan 20, 2011, at 12:23 PM, dark wrote: > Not to mention Sapi. > > there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, > in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen > readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well > with sapi which everyone has. > > Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems > in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. > > The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent > voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with > companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi > compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good > investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. > > in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where > audio games are concerned. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. > - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" > To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" > > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM > Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT > > >> If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System >> Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend >> is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface >> with it. >> Karl >> >> -Original Message- >> From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On >> Behalf Of Philip Bennefall >> Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM >> To: Gamers Discussion list >> Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT >> >> Hi all, >> >> I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very >> beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for >> my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of >> keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded >> and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. >> >> Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which >> basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether >> input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, >> as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as >> the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to >> set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook >> rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take >> priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard >> hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and >> DirectInput are now the best of friends. >> >> I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell >> everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific >> keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as >> though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other >> words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while >> preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. >> >> Just some information I figured I would share with you. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, >> send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. >> >> >> --- >> Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org >> If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to >> gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. >> You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at >> http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. >> All messages are archived and can be searched and read at >> http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. >> If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, >> please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to game
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
either that or have it to where the user can switch screen readers in case people want to play using jaws and then switch to window-eyes On Jan 20, 2011, at 11:58 AM, Karl Belanger wrote: > If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System > Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend > is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface > with it. > Karl > > -Original Message- > From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On > Behalf Of Philip Bennefall > Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM > To: Gamers Discussion list > Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT > > Hi all, > > I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very > beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for > my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of > keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded > and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. > > Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which > basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether > input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, > as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as > the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to > set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook > rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take > priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard > hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and > DirectInput are now the best of friends. > > I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell > everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific > keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as > though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other > words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while > preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. > > Just some information I figured I would share with you. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, > send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
since jaws support will be added what about nvda support? On Jan 20, 2011, at 11:51 AM, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very > beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my > not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of > keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded > and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. > > Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which > basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input > should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we > all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the > arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up > a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather > than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority > over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to > allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are > now the best of friends. > > I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell > everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific > keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though > Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, > this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing > Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. > > Just some information I figured I would share with you. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, Very interesting. Generally I've found the same problem. I would prefer a female Sapi voice, but most of them just strike me as wrong. Accapela Heather is not bad and AT&T Lorn is okay as well. Some of the others like Scansoft Samantha just sounds like a stuck up old laidy, and is a major turn off. Cepstral Dianne is good for reading books, but some of Cepstral's voices like Amy and Emily are ssimply aweful. However, more often the male voices like David, Walter, Mike, etc are okay. I can listen to them all day with no problem. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Heli
I sent a message to the list earlier today, but I'm not seeing it. Basically, I've begun a community project for all you programmers, sound and music designers. This is the first freeware open-source game the blind community has which uses 3d audio--or it better be. If it's not then I've worked my butt off reinventing the wheel.. It's coded in VB6 and uses directx 8. The game can be found at http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13071564/heli.zip It's in very early public beta, and I probably am already working on any errors you find, but let me know about them anyway. Here is the manual. Welcome to Heli, the virtual toy helicopter you can fly! There has been much talk in the past about a game building project that many people can participate in. Well, I've begun one. Now, here's where the rubber meets the road. Here is where we'll see if gamers are all talk about this subject or if they add their own ideas. The game So far, here is the game, designed in VB6. Yes, it's archaic or whatever, but it's what I know. Wanna translate it? Go ahead. Anyway, the basic idea is that you and a friend just got a couple of those new battle copters, you know, the ones you fly around the house? Well, you're in a living room that's about ten feet high, and 20 by 20. You fly your chopper around the room, trying to shoot down your friend before he gets you. The Trim: Now, you're not the only one that flies this helicopter, because you have a young brother/sister/cousin that plays with it, so every time you start the game you'll need to adjust the trim to 0. To adjust it, use the home and end keys. When it gets to 0, the sound of the knob turning will change. If you don't adjust the trim, the helicopter will fly around in circles--which you may want to do sometimes. To fly, hold down the page up key to gain altitude. Since you're flying a helicopter, the faster the rotors turn, the higher it goes. As you increase in height, your velocity in that direction also increases. If you get going too fast you'll smash against the ceiling, and your chopper will fall. You get about ten smashes before it's unusable. Also, page down will slow the rotors, making the chopper descend. Now turn with the left and right arrow keys and fly forwards or backwards with the up and down arrows. You can show off to your friend by landing the chopper on your head, but that takes a lot of work and a little luck. If you're in range of your opponent, a target beep sounds, indicating that you're in range to shoot the other copter down. Turn with the left and right arrows until the beeps are in front of you, then shoot with the space bar. If you get him, it's your point--but if he shoots you down, it's his point. In either case, the shot chopper will float down to the ground, and both will respawn at their starting locations. The enemy chopper starts out very slow. It always comes after you, but the first little while it is slow. This allows you to adjust your trim, get used to flying and so on. Every time you shoot him though, he flies a bit faster. Eventually, he will outfly and outgun you no matter how good you think you are. Yep, another unbeatable game from DreamTech! (You wouldn't really wanna be able to win now, would ya?) Now, there are obstacles in the room, but you can smash 'em if you want. The first is a TV, which is playing some weird music when the game starts. To smash it, simply fly at an altitude of three feet or less, and go after it. More obstacles, such as lamps, are coming. Controls: Page up for ascend, page down for descend, home and end adjust trim, left and right arrows for turning, up and down arrows for moving, a says your current angle, x says your current coordinates, v says your velocity, and space bar fires your gun. Note: This game is not only to be a community project, but it's an early early beta. I've only been working on it for two weeks now, but there are many things to add and fix, such as the frequency of the targeting beeps. I know this, and I'll be working on them--but remember, you can too. Also, realize that working with 3d audio isn't nearly as easy as panning and volume--well, it wasn't in the beginning. Now though, that you have a foundation to build on, it should be very simple. I've included a book on programming vb6 that I found on the net, as well as a couple tutorials on 3d audio by Jack Hoxley. I want to encourage developers that programming isn't the only essential here. Sounds and music are crucial too, so if you want to make sounds or music but don't have a clue about programming, you can join in as well. The sound for Heli, your chopper, is basically a motor sound with the sound of a chain saw mixed in. The sky's the limit when it comes to imagination. (Yeah, I know it sounds silly, but wait till you hear it!) Ken Downey DTI Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! I
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
I think you'd be hard pressed to find a screne reader that could! do drama Muhammed, sinse afterall the screen reader doesn't know what it's saying. interestingly enough, a friend of mine who has a degree in computer science once did speculate on creating some html tags which could be added to pages of text and serve as output markers for synth voices to alter intonation, speed, pitch and pauses betwene words so as to create in effect a way of writing scripts which a synth could read dramatically. Unfortunately she never got beyond the planning stage, but it was an interesting idea. As to scansoft daniel, the only thing that rather irritates me is the fact that unlike with orphius, you can do nothing to alter it's dictionary. I really dislike the way it interprets certain letters as words, for example mps as meters per second or ms as manuscript, sinse this can make looking at statistics in muds or if games quite a pest. I do find the way it keeps mentioning manuscript sapi quite amusing, it sort of has a bit of a biblical ring to it ;D. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Shiny protector" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:28 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT I love scansoft Daniel. The only thing I don't like is it can't do drama. For an example, "Ah how dare you! I will kill you! Who do you think you are! Scansoft Daniel can't do that. But in other words, its co'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'ol! - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT I've never actually had lag or speed issues with scansoft daniel, even on my laptop which is five years old and has not the world's largest ram. I have noticed some lag when using realspeak with Hal even with hal's direct output (one reason I use orphius, sinse it is both extremely responsive and imho, sounds much nicer than eloquence), though also bare in mind my typing speed is pretty fast. But I haven't seen this issue in games running sapi, even timing based ones like lone wolf, or when writing in muds, pluss of course, if you have the libraries you can in fact run sapi with eloquence if you wish anyway. I wonder if there's something wonky in your setup which is giving low performance with sapi? Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been
[Audyssey] Community Game-building Project
Well, there has been much talk in the past about a game building project that many people can participate in. Well, I've begun one. Now, here's where the rubber meets the road. Here is where we'll see if gamers are all talk about this subject or if they add their own ideas. The game So far, here is the game, designed in VB6. Yes, it's archaic or whatever, but it's what I know. Wanna translate it? Go ahead. Anyway, the basic idea is that you and a friend just got a couple of those new battle copters, you know, the ones you fly around the house? Well, you're in a living room that's about ten feet high, and 20 by 20. You fly your chopper around the room, trying to shoot down your friend before he gets you. The Trim: Now, you're not the only one that flies this helicopter, because you have a young brother/sister/cousin that plays with it, so every time you start the game you'll need to adjust the trim to 0. To adjust it, use the home and end keys. As you adjust it, you'll hear the clicking of a knob that seems to move around your head. When it gets to 0, the sound of the knob turning will change and be directly in front of you. To fly, hold down the page up key to gain altitude. Since you're flying a helicopter, the faster the rotors turn, the higher it goes. As you increase in height, your velocity in that direction also increases. If you get going too fast you'll smash against the ceiling, and your chopper will fall. You get about ten smashes before it's unusable. Also, page down will slow the rotors, making the chopper descend. You can show off to your friend by landing the chopper on your head, but that takes a lot of work and a little luck. Use left and right arrows to turn, and up and down arrows to fly forward and backward. If you're in range, a target beep sounds, indicating that you're in range to shoot the other copter down. Turn with the left and right arrows until the beeps are in front of you, then shoot with the space bar. If you get him, it's your point--but if he shoots you down, it's his point. In either case, the shot chopper will float down to the ground, and both will respawn at their starting locations, but will retain their former altitudes. The enemy chopper starts out very slow. It always comes after you, but the first little while it is slow. This allows you to adjust your trim, get used to flying and so on. Every time you shoot him though, he flies a bit faster. Eventually, he will outfly and outgun you no matter how good you think you are. Yep, another unbeatable game from DreamTech! (You wouldn't really wanna be able to win now, would ya?) Now, there are obstacles in the room, but you can smash 'em if you want. The first is a TV, which is playing some weird music when the game starts. To smash it, simply fly at an altitude of three feet or less, and go after it. More obstacles, such as lamps, are coming. Controls: Page up for ascend, page down for descend, home and end adjust trim, left and right arrows for turning, a says your current angle, x says your current coordinates, v says your velocity, and space bar fires your gun. Note: This game is not only to be a community project, but it's an early early beta. I've only been working on it for about two weeks now, but there are a couple things to fix. The ones I know are the frequency of the targeting beeps, and the way velocity is spoken--will be integers soon. I know this, and I'll be working on them--but remember, you can too. Also, realize that working with 3d audio isn't nearly as easy as panning and volume--well, it wasn't in the beginning. Now though, that you have a foundation to build on, it should be very simple. I've included a book on programming vb6 that I found on the net, as well as a couple tutorials on 3d audio by Jack Hoxley. Before I tell you where to get the file, I want to encourage developers that programming isn't the only essential here. Sounds and music are crucial too, so if you want to make sounds or music but don't have a clue about programming, you can join in as well. The sound for Heli, your chopper, is basically a motor sound with the sound of a chain saw mixed in. The sky's the limit when it comes to imagination. (Yeah, I know it sounds silly, but wait till you hear it!) OK. Here's the link: http://dl.dropbox.com/u/13071564/heli.zip Now, if you want to be a part of this, get a Dropbox account and let me know. I'll invite you, and our game folders will always be linked, so that I'll instantly know about any changes you make. Ken Downey President DreamTechInteractive! And, Blind Comfort! The pleasant way to experience massage! It's the Caring without the Staring! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.or
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, Yeah, I know. It is just the everybody uses Jaws attitude that gets under my skin, because not everybody uses it. Yes, i have it, but only because it was paid for by a state agency when they were trying to help me get through college and find employment. It wasn't by personal choice. I have obtained another screen reader, Window-eyes, by personal choice so naturally I favor it more since I'm the guy who fit the bill for it and wanted it. To have someone snub my choice by using Jaws only would be an insult much as it would be to a Hal user like yourself. On 1/20/11, dark wrote: > I agree completely tom, but I don't really think this is Philip's problem, > afterall he's essentially just providing the tools for the job, not saying > how people should use them. > > if someone did just write in Jaws support because they believed most people > used jaws and were too lazy to change things, well it's up to myself > and all the other none jaws users to point out to them that they're being a > prat, as in fact I did when during my first examination of muds back in > 2004, I asked about screen reader support and was sent a bunch of jaws > script files, rather sad actually sinse this put me completely off muds at > the time, but I now Know I could've run mushclient quite successfully with > Sapi, especially sinse the particular mud I was trying to play was > Alterean. > > The most Philip could do would be to write some advice in the bgt > documentation, but whether people take it would be their own fault > really. > > Beware the Grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Philip, Again, quite understandable. Let's hope though that nobody is rash enough to just support Jaws and forget about the rest of us who might be using Window-Eyes or something else. Oh, I have a copy of Jaws 11, but it isn't my primary screen reader and I'm not purchasing Jaws 12. I'm sticking with the version I have, and when it gets too old to support that will be the end of it most likely. My future with Windows will probably be with NVDA or Window-Eyes. Depending on if I can continue to pay for the upgrades, or want to now that I use Linux most of the time anyway. So I am seriously hoping VI game developers aren't asking for Jaws support just to drop alternative methods in favor of it. On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi again, > > This is what I was about to say as well. Since I'm writing a general purpose > audio game engine I cannot tell people what they may or may not do. I can > advise, sure, but I won't enforce the use of all screen readers as I feel > that this should be very much up to the individual game developer. If they > choose not to support one or more screen readers even though they are easy > to access from within the engine, the community must speak about this to the > developer in question just as though their program had been written > independently in vb.net or C++ without the help of a dedicated engine, as it > were. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi, Well, that depends. I noticed that the Sapi version of Realspeak voices do lag a little, but it is n't too bad. However, the Realspeak Direct voices for Jaws 11 are very responsive and I generally use something like Scansoft Tom as my default voice rather than Eloquence. On 1/20/11, dark wrote: > Hi Damien. > > I'd fully agree that the orphius synthetic dave and synthetic andy voices > are, well synthetic, and probably are worse than eloquence. > > however, I really do like their human voices, the Uk English voice Alan in > particular. In fact Alan is the voice I've used for everything screen reader > related for years now, ever sinse the human voices first came out, and I've > never had issues with response times at all. > > i suppose though as you said, it all comes down to what your used to, > I'd probably say the same about eloquence, ie, that it's not much better > than espeak as you do about orphius ;D. > > As for the lag in sapi, as I said I've never really seen it myself, not > with the scansoft voices anyway. > > Beware the grue! > > dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. My reply: Yeah, I definitely know the feeling. There is a lot that can be said for the walk along blow-m-up or walk along beat-m-up game like Turrican. Just start the game and play with no better goal in mind than to blow up, beat up, or otherwise kill as many baddies as humanly possible. There were a number of games of this type for the NES and SNES, and they were surprisingly fun despite lacking a game story, cut scenes, whatever. Like I was saying to Phil over on the USA Games list my son recently got hooked on the 1989 Batman game for the original NES. It is still one of the top downloads for NES roms, and has been declared one of the top 10 games for the NES platform. Besides extremely sharp graphics and animations for the time the game play is fantastic. There isn't much to the stages other than walking along beating up the Joker's thugs, but all that is made up for a well balanced combat system. It is challenging and you have to figure out if taking out an enemy is better with fists, batarang, or a rocket. It is both simple but highly challenging at the same time. That spells great replay value that has lasted for 22 years. To get back to my point I often wish I could just load up a game like that and play it like I use to. MOTA is a great game, but puzzle solving etc take brain power. Sometimes you just want to ggo out there and slug it out with some baddies for the heck of it. Double Dragon, Batman, and games of that sort give you that relief. You don't have to think about it, but can just punch, kick, and fight your way through the levels until you take on the big boss man. Dark wrote: There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. My reply: Yes, you are definitely right. That's one thing I was hoping to avoid with Mysteries of the Ancients. The game mechanics are just a little too automatic for my liking, and I want something a little more fluid and challenging. If you don't hold down the jump keys long enough poor Angela gets dumped in a fire, lava pit, lands on some spikes, etc. Jump too far and she over shoots a ledge and falls screaming to her death. These things are not at all unusual for mainstream games of the type you mentioned, but are almost non-existent in audio games. Its time to change that. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Ok, fair enough...LOL! I copied game names from prior email, and pasted them into google search box, and that's how I found that page, FWIW. Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Bryan Peterson" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:23 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels It's actually a C, not a G. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
No worries - was just wondering, and will, honestly most likely pass this on to some of my sighted friends, who might appreciate it, but FWIW, I am 100% blind, so I'll stick to other, entirely audio games... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Friday, January 21, 2011 1:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Well in truth if you want to argue from that standpoint that can be said of just about any language. Sent from my iPhone On Jan 20, 2011, at 3:30 PM, Thomas Ward wrote: > Hi Philip, > > Yeah, I understand your logic. When trying to market a product > sometimes it comes down to mob rule. That still however doesn't wave > my concerns about it. Now, a question. > > When people produce games is it possible to turn this feature off I.E. > just use Sapi instead of Jaws support etc or are we stuck with > whatever the game designer decides? My real concern is if someone who > really loves Jaws decides only to support that screen reader and > decides to screw everyone else who might want to use Window-Eyes, > NVDA, Sapi, whatever just because they have an opinion that by > supporting Jaws only they will be supporting 90% of the market etc. It > would have to be universally understood by adding screen reader > support every game written with BGT must offer alternative speech > output systems. That no game can make this or that screen reader a > default preference. Any thoughts or comments on this? > > Thanks. > > > On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: >> Hi Thomas, >> >> Right, that strengthens my point about having screen reader enumeration in >> BGT if, of course, we want this support at all. I agree with you that it's >> not a critical or even important thing to have in a game engine, but I >> reason like this. Customers want it, customers pay the bills, customers get >> what they want. That's how I have to do my business, e.g. submit to popular >> demand even if I might not strictly agree with it on a personal level. Of >> course there are a lot of cases when I won't do it, but for something as >> simple as this I don't have a problem adding it. >> >> Kind regards, >> >> Philip Bennefall > > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
It's actually a C, not a G. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from the player to avoid. There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite a
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
T2002, like original Turrican is an entirely graphical game. If you have enough vision to play 2D side scrollers with symplistic high contrast graphics, it is quite accessible, especially sinse you can alter the in game options by just edditing the conf file in notepad however, if you don't have this degree of vision the answer is a resounding no, and it's very unlikely that it will ever be so, one reason why I'm so interested in having a similar experience accessible to everyone. I'm very sorry if I didn't make this point clear in the initial male. I am indeed registered blind, but have some residual vision which I've been using to play some graphical games for years. i cannot read print (which puts out a lot of games), nor can I play things which are complex and 3D, sinse the spacial relations with lack of vision get far too much, but i am lucky enough that I can stil play games like Turrican, prince of persia, mega man and Mario. I'm sorry if this wans't absolutely clear from my first message. Beware the Grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Jacob Kruger" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:07 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Is turrigan T2002 accessible as such? http://www.pekaro.de/content/t2002/t2002.html Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:43 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from the player to avoid. There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metro
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi again, This is what I was about to say as well. Since I'm writing a general purpose audio game engine I cannot tell people what they may or may not do. I can advise, sure, but I won't enforce the use of all screen readers as I feel that this should be very much up to the individual game developer. If they choose not to support one or more screen readers even though they are easy to access from within the engine, the community must speak about this to the developer in question just as though their program had been written independently in vb.net or C++ without the help of a dedicated engine, as it were. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT I agree completely tom, but I don't really think this is Philip's problem, afterall he's essentially just providing the tools for the job, not saying how people should use them. if someone did just write in Jaws support because they believed most people used jaws and were too lazy to change things, well it's up to myself and all the other none jaws users to point out to them that they're being a prat, as in fact I did when during my first examination of muds back in 2004, I asked about screen reader support and was sent a bunch of jaws script files, rather sad actually sinse this put me completely off muds at the time, but I now Know I could've run mushclient quite successfully with Sapi, especially sinse the particular mud I was trying to play was Alterean. The most Philip could do would be to write some advice in the bgt documentation, but whether people take it would be their own fault really. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
I'm just the opposite. If I have to use Eloquence I use the UK accent since the American accent is the one that sounds odd to me. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 2:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, I totally agree with you with the UK accent, which is precisely why I use the US accent. To be honest I prefer the American accents in speech synths anyway. Again, because that's what I've always used. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
I agree completely tom, but I don't really think this is Philip's problem, afterall he's essentially just providing the tools for the job, not saying how people should use them. if someone did just write in Jaws support because they believed most people used jaws and were too lazy to change things, well it's up to myself and all the other none jaws users to point out to them that they're being a prat, as in fact I did when during my first examination of muds back in 2004, I asked about screen reader support and was sent a bunch of jaws script files, rather sad actually sinse this put me completely off muds at the time, but I now Know I could've run mushclient quite successfully with Sapi, especially sinse the particular mud I was trying to play was Alterean. The most Philip could do would be to write some advice in the bgt documentation, but whether people take it would be their own fault really. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Funnily enough Tom, I've tried eloquence with hal, and found it no faster than orphius, though to me it sounds infinitely worse. This may just be because Hal has been running with orphius for years while eloquence support is comparatively new (it was only added in version ten). I can't say anything about Orphius running with sapi, sinse these days it doesn't appear in the voice selection list, and back in the days when it did I always got an error when trying to use it for some reason (one reason I got realspeak daniel instead). Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Well, the general argument in favor of Eloquence is that it is responsive. Which is certainly true. That's the one and only reason I purchased Eloquence for Linux to work with Orca. Its voice quality is crap, but it is responsive and doesn't lag the way the Cepstral, AT&T Voices, and other nore natural sounding voices do. Of course, the same holds true for ESpeak as well, and it is free. Smile. On 1/20/11, dark wrote: It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Lol, I think your my polar opposite in everything here damien, ;d. i much prefer uk accents in my synths. Also, as a very weerd fact, I dislike female synth voices for some reason, even particularly good sampled ones. MAle voices I don't mind, but female ones just sound wrong to me for some reason. Very odd, sinse I have no such bias with human speech when for instance reading an audio book, in fact I have favourite readers of both genders pretty equally. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:05 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, I totally agree with you with the UK accent, which is precisely why I use the US accent. To be honest I prefer the American accents in speech synths anyway. Again, because that's what I've always used. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Damien. I'd fully agree that the orphius synthetic dave and synthetic andy voices are, well synthetic, and probably are worse than eloquence. however, I really do like their human voices, the Uk English voice Alan in particular. In fact Alan is the voice I've used for everything screen reader related for years now, ever sinse the human voices first came out, and I've never had issues with response times at all. i suppose though as you said, it all comes down to what your used to, I'd probably say the same about eloquence, ie, that it's not much better than espeak as you do about orphius ;D. As for the lag in sapi, as I said I've never really seen it myself, not with the scansoft voices anyway. Beware the grue! dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. This actually ties into something I was thinking about the other day. I realized, that despite having games as complex as smugglers, shades of doom, entombed, time of conflict and lone wolf installed on my pc, what is the game I play most often? What is the game I frequently just think "hay, I've got half an hour, lets play something" and stick on? Easy, -- The freeware, graphical remake of Turrican, T2002 (with it's various level packs that people have created of course). this is not, by any stretch of the imagination a particularly complex game. There is no in game story let alone cut scenes. you have three main weapons, which you can't even choose betwene you just pick up at random, a multiple shot that covers a wide area, a laser that covers a small area but is very powerful, and a bounce weapon that rebounds off walls. You have a close range, 360 degree energy whip, and a limited number of grenades that blow up everything on the screen. That is it! 3 primary weapons, one secondary weapon, and a limited use special power, Mota already has more to offer. Neither is the game complex. Run along, shoot huge swarms of baddies, and try to find the exit of each level. There are no doors, not even destroyable ones as in the metroid games, let alone keys, nor are there torches, not even medkits to carry. Yet, why is it I play turrican probably more than any other game. Partly it's the very amazing soundtrack, but we'll leave that aside for now, mostly it's the exploration! the levels are, quite honestly, ridiculously huge! each is 30 or so screens square, and unlike in prince of persia where each screen held only 3 of your characters' high vertically, Turrican you can jump roughly as high as Mario can, so each screen can hold five times your high vertically, also obviiously the screen scrolls, and scrolls in any direction. More than that though, each level is a massive maze. There is no guarantee that you start on the left and the exit was on the right side as in most side scrollers, indeed sometimes it was on the left and in in some levels you jumped up into the exit or fell down into it. then, exploration is actually rewarded, sinse the more you explore, the more likely you are to find hidden extra lives or power ups, which are often very well hidden indeed. The pc remake also instituted a feature which is common to modern games but was litle known in the early 90's when Turrican was originally made, that of saving! Sinse the game now saves each time you get to a new level, level designers have been able to create Turrican levels that even make the original game look small! I'm not sure on the exact size, but where as exploring the original levels of the Amigar games would take me around 20 minutes to half an hour per stage, some of the newly made levels have taken me literally hours! to play through. Add to this another fact about turrican which I've yet to see emulated in an audio game, instead of a single jump distance, you jump relative to how long you hold down the jump button. This means you can have ledges and complex terane to jump through, which requires you to calculate distances, indeed often such a simple task as jumping from one ledge to another can be made a good deal more complex by this, especially sinse obviously your targit ledgte can be above or below you. Trap wise, the game included comparatively few, but with the physics of the jumps taken into account they could make things rather difficult. False walls, or walls and ledges you could blast through with your weapon, moving platforms (horrizontal or vertical), turning cog wheels that will chuck you off when you stand on them, and conveyer belts that push you along (often into hazards like crushers or flames which will damage you). But why am I mentioning all this (especially about a game which most people on this list will not be able to play), because it's this! that I would love to see in an audio side scroller. Freedom of movement, exploration, a system of jumping physics which actually requires you to get used to and practice with, and traps which similarly need some work from the player to avoid. There's a tendency I've noticed in audio side scrollers to essentially make everything feel quite automatic. You get close to enemy, enemy attacks unless you hit first, on harder difficulty enemy damages you more. you get to edge of ledge, hit single jump button. Compare this to the fluidity and sense of freedom in a game like Turrican, Metroid, or even something like original mega man, and the difference is astronomical. I'm absolutely certain it's possible to have this sort of experience in audio, but nobody has done it in 2D yet, though I will admit that Shades of doom and sarah have indeed managed it in 3D (one reason why I became interested in audio games in the first place, s
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi, Well, the Scansoft, AKA Realspeak, voices are developed by Nuance. The same company that creates Dragon, Omnipage, etc. I'm sure there will be a day when they will have to change there practices or lose out. One reason I have purchased several Cepstral voices is because they are A, human sounding, B, affordable, C, Sapi 5 compatible, and D, cross-platform. This makes them one of the most affordable voices with more bang for the buck. AT&T Voices are also good for gaming for pretty much the same reasons as the Cepstral voices. Cheers! On 1/20/11, dark wrote: > Hi tom. > > I suppose ultimately this is just because people like scansoft and whoever > make eloquence are too greedy to just let people use their voices for other > programs than Jaws, Hal or window eyes. > > However with more voicing programs being used on mobile phones, in generic > business reading software etc, I'm not sure how long this atitude was > persist, also, these days there seem far more makers of good quality > voices around than a short time ago. > > Myself, I'm not convinced this situation will continue, especially when > people realize that decent quality sapi complient synths are fairly easy to > come by. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Philip, Yeah, I understand your logic. When trying to market a product sometimes it comes down to mob rule. That still however doesn't wave my concerns about it. Now, a question. When people produce games is it possible to turn this feature off I.E. just use Sapi instead of Jaws support etc or are we stuck with whatever the game designer decides? My real concern is if someone who really loves Jaws decides only to support that screen reader and decides to screw everyone else who might want to use Window-Eyes, NVDA, Sapi, whatever just because they have an opinion that by supporting Jaws only they will be supporting 90% of the market etc. It would have to be universally understood by adding screen reader support every game written with BGT must offer alternative speech output systems. That no game can make this or that screen reader a default preference. Any thoughts or comments on this? Thanks. On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Thomas, > > Right, that strengthens my point about having screen reader enumeration in > BGT if, of course, we want this support at all. I agree with you that it's > not a critical or even important thing to have in a game engine, but I > reason like this. Customers want it, customers pay the bills, customers get > what they want. That's how I have to do my business, e.g. submit to popular > demand even if I might not strictly agree with it on a personal level. Of > course there are a lot of cases when I won't do it, but for something as > simple as this I don't have a problem adding it. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
I love scansoft Daniel. The only thing I don't like is it can't do drama. For an example, "Ah how dare you! I will kill you! Who do you think you are! Scansoft Daniel can't do that. But in other words, its co'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'o'ol! - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT I've never actually had lag or speed issues with scansoft daniel, even on my laptop which is five years old and has not the world's largest ram. I have noticed some lag when using realspeak with Hal even with hal's direct output (one reason I use orphius, sinse it is both extremely responsive and imho, sounds much nicer than eloquence), though also bare in mind my typing speed is pretty fast. But I haven't seen this issue in games running sapi, even timing based ones like lone wolf, or when writing in muds, pluss of course, if you have the libraries you can in fact run sapi with eloquence if you wish anyway. I wonder if there's something wonky in your setup which is giving low performance with sapi? Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws fr
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, Well, the general argument in favor of Eloquence is that it is responsive. Which is certainly true. That's the one and only reason I purchased Eloquence for Linux to work with Orca. Its voice quality is crap, but it is responsive and doesn't lag the way the Cepstral, AT&T Voices, and other nore natural sounding voices do. Of course, the same holds true for ESpeak as well, and it is free. Smile. On 1/20/11, dark wrote: > It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually > never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really > thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. > > Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent > is, well incredibly odd to say the least. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, I totally agree with you with the UK accent, which is precisely why I use the US accent. To be honest I prefer the American accents in speech synths anyway. Again, because that's what I've always used. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:47 PM Subject: [Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, I have had low responses from large SAPI voices on every machine now. I like Eloquence better than Orpheus, since I have been used to Eloquence all my life. It is more softly spoken than Orpheus, and I believe is much nicer to listen to while reading long documents. In my opinion Orpheus just sounds like a glorified version of ESpeak, or, as far as the sample based version is concerned, a glorified version of the Microsoft TTS voices. Eloquence reminds me of Dectalk and Keynote (Keynote is the very first synthetic voice I worked with). Yeah, call me nostalgic if you wish. Lol. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:35 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT I've never actually had lag or speed issues with scansoft daniel, even on my laptop which is five years old and has not the world's largest ram. I have noticed some lag when using realspeak with Hal even with hal's direct output (one reason I use orphius, sinse it is both extremely responsive and imho, sounds much nicer than eloquence), though also bare in mind my typing speed is pretty fast. But I haven't seen this issue in games running sapi, even timing based ones like lone wolf, or when writing in muds, pluss of course, if you have the libraries you can in fact run sapi with eloquence if you wish anyway. I wonder if there's something wonky in your setup which is giving low performance with sapi? Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am g
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi tom. I suppose ultimately this is just because people like scansoft and whoever make eloquence are too greedy to just let people use their voices for other programs than Jaws, Hal or window eyes. However with more voicing programs being used on mobile phones, in generic business reading software etc, I'm not sure how long this atitude was persist, also, these days there seem far more makers of good quality voices around than a short time ago. Myself, I'm not convinced this situation will continue, especially when people realize that decent quality sapi complient synths are fairly easy to come by. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:42 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, I'm glad somebody actually agrees with me. Supporting x number of screen readers is, to be blunt, absolutely silly and unnecessary. However, I know the reason or the logic behind it. Some people love Eloquence and want Eloquence support AKA Jaws support. Personally, I don't find that a compelling reason to add screen reader support because I'm not an Eloquence fan, but you know how it goes. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Cheers! On 1/20/11, dark wrote: Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] eloquence was, Re: Screen reader support in BGT
It might just be that I am used to orphius human voices, but I've actually never thought much of eloquence, in fact to be honest I've never really thought it was that much better than microsoft Mike. Of course, this might be partially because the eloquence uk english accent is, well incredibly odd to say the least. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:31 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Philip. I've already seen the sapi support in bgt, (in fact if I ever get to coding a game with it that's what I'd be using), if it won't take you trouble to add fair enough, it just has been something in titles like Gmas which has always slightly confused me, sinse it has seemed odd to put in more work to bennifit some people, then even more to bennifit other groups, when one universally available solution is already there. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Philip Bennefall" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, BGT already has Sapi support, so this is as you say not strictly necessary but a lot of people requested it, and it won't take me very long to integrate so I figured that I might as well get it over and done with. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mai
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
I've never actually had lag or speed issues with scansoft daniel, even on my laptop which is five years old and has not the world's largest ram. I have noticed some lag when using realspeak with Hal even with hal's direct output (one reason I use orphius, sinse it is both extremely responsive and imho, sounds much nicer than eloquence), though also bare in mind my typing speed is pretty fast. But I haven't seen this issue in games running sapi, even timing based ones like lone wolf, or when writing in muds, pluss of course, if you have the libraries you can in fact run sapi with eloquence if you wish anyway. I wonder if there's something wonky in your setup which is giving low performance with sapi? Beware the grue! dark. - Original Message - From: "Damien Pendleton" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:57 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Thomas, Right, that strengthens my point about having screen reader enumeration in BGT if, of course, we want this support at all. I agree with you that it's not a critical or even important thing to have in a game engine, but I reason like this. Customers want it, customers pay the bills, customers get what they want. That's how I have to do my business, e.g. submit to popular demand even if I might not strictly agree with it on a personal level. Of course there are a lot of cases when I won't do it, but for something as simple as this I don't have a problem adding it. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:03 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi Philip, Well, its not that obscure as you might think. I happen to have three screen readers. Jaws 11, Window-Eyes 7.2, and NVDA 2010. I find that each screen reader has its own unique advantages/disadvantages and switch them depending on the project and/or application. I know a couple of other people with a similar setup. For example, here in the USA on a job sight you are likely to end up with Jaws no questions asked just because it is Jaws. However, at home the person may have some other preference like Hal, Window-Eyes, NVDA, whatever. As a result it is becoming more common that there may be more than one screen reader on the system. Especially, with NVDA and System Access that don't cost a bloody fortune. With me I got Jaws through BSVI when I went to college since that is all they would buy, and I just purchased SMAs for it. However, years later I found I liked Window-Eyes better and licensed it. NVDA is free and that's how i got the three of them. Point being is it might not be that far a stretch to see more than one screen reader installed. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: Hi Karl, I have plans to add support for the other screen readers as well, though Jaws is my primary target as it is still the most widely used screen reader out there. Rather than selecting a screen reader automatically, however, I'd rather let the user see a list of the available ones and allow them to select one based on that. Who knows, in some obscure case a user might have both NVDA and Jaws for instance. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Dark, Dark wrote: Take a look at this table. it lists the number of screen or rooms in each level for snes prince of persia, and the number of enemies found on those levels. My reply: Yeah, i just did. That's exactly what I'm talking about. The mainstream games I've played like Prince of Persia is way more complex than MOTA. There are several more rooms, enemies, and the traps in Prince of Persia are totally awesome. The metal jaw trap is one of the cooler ones that come to mind. That's why when I held my Logitech game pad in my hands playing through MOTA the thought occured to me that I'm totally dissatisfied with the game. It was in a word "lame." I played better games than this. I played games for the Atari, NES, and SNES, that I couldn't put down. the replay value in some of the mainstream games was fantastic, and I started to think about what gave those games replay value. Complex Traps --- All of the games I like from Prince of Persia to Tomb Raider make extensive use of difficult traps like vanishing platforms, spinning gears, rolling bolders, you name it. You usually can't just press jump and avoid that trap. You have to try a number of times to actually get past it. Puzzle Elements This can be anything from a certain key or lever that unlocks door x to something more safisticated. I'll have to take a bit of look at some common puzzles to come up with a cool list of these to employ here. Level Design --- Nobody expects a walk along beat-m-up like Batman or Double Dragon to employ mazes. However, games in the Prince of Persia, Montezuma's Revenge, Tomb Raider genre often use some bit of a maze type level to get around. It is a widely excepted part of that style of game genre. Dark wrote: As for map design, I'd personallly say write all new ones, - afterall, montizumas revenge is a completely separate game afterall. My reply: Good point. I was just asking since a lot of people preordered expecting Montezuma's Revenge and thought I'd throw that idea out there for those maybe looking for something a bit similar. Dark wrote: Rather than just dumping the work you've got thus far though, how about keeping the original first level, sinse it provides a very good and easy intro to the game, but then afterwards getting creative with the mazes etc. My reply: Well, there are both practical and technical reasons I don't want to do this. On the technical side of things I setup and initialize the size of my array etc to make every level a fixed size I.E. same width and height. I can't go from a 300 by 20 level to a 100 by 100 level in the same game. Therefore what Ineed to do is set a standard format for the levels and draw the maps according to that format. On the practical side I just plane don't like the first two levels of MOTA. Oh, they are okay, but I know they could be better. Make sense? Besides creating new levels is the easy and fun part. What took me so darned long before was all the low-level stuff that goes into an engine like base classes, input support, a window manager, audio support, and so on. Getting that stuff out of the way is a huge load off my shoulders, and now I can actually work on the game for real now. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Shaun, Yeah. Thing is most of them have no clue what is like to create a multipurpose game engine and then still produce a game at the same time. It would be kind of like writing BGT and Q9 at the same time. Since MOTA requires the G3D Engine there is no question which product comes first, but having the engine more or less ready for production now will mean I can crank out games in under a year. It just requires that piece of software I didn't have two or three years ago, and I happened to have to write by hand because there was no BGT to purchase at the time. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: > well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. > That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. > TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your > throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. > These people have waited years and years for this game or games. > I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. > This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks > and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. > But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they > payed for it!!! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi I to am more then happy to give him that time as well. from Mich. - Original Message - From: "Michael Feir" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:40 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if > that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and ca
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Philip, Well, its not that obscure as you might think. I happen to have three screen readers. Jaws 11, Window-Eyes 7.2, and NVDA 2010. I find that each screen reader has its own unique advantages/disadvantages and switch them depending on the project and/or application. I know a couple of other people with a similar setup. For example, here in the USA on a job sight you are likely to end up with Jaws no questions asked just because it is Jaws. However, at home the person may have some other preference like Hal, Window-Eyes, NVDA, whatever. As a result it is becoming more common that there may be more than one screen reader on the system. Especially, with NVDA and System Access that don't cost a bloody fortune. With me I got Jaws through BSVI when I went to college since that is all they would buy, and I just purchased SMAs for it. However, years later I found I liked Window-Eyes better and licensed it. NVDA is free and that's how i got the three of them. Point being is it might not be that far a stretch to see more than one screen reader installed. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi Karl, > > I have plans to add support for the other screen readers as well, though > Jaws is my primary target as it is still the most widely used screen reader > out there. > > Rather than selecting a screen reader automatically, however, I'd rather let > the user see a list of the available ones and allow them to select one based > on that. Who knows, in some obscure case a user might have both NVDA and > Jaws for instance. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, I'm glad somebody actually agrees with me. Supporting x number of screen readers is, to be blunt, absolutely silly and unnecessary. However, I know the reason or the logic behind it. Some people love Eloquence and want Eloquence support AKA Jaws support. Personally, I don't find that a compelling reason to add screen reader support because I'm not an Eloquence fan, but you know how it goes. Different strokes for different folks and all that. Cheers! On 1/20/11, dark wrote: > Not to mention Sapi. > > there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the > above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several > windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do > just as well with sapi which everyone has. > > Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different > systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the > one. > > The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent > voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and > with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality > sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good > investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. > > in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where > audio games are concerned. > > Beware the grue! > > Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Shaun, And the point of NvDA support is? With NVDA you can choose from ESpeak, which is Sapi compatible anyway, and/or any Sapi 5 voices. So your logic is well I want to support this or that Sapi 5 voice but instead of using Sapi directly I'll load NVDA and access Sapi remotely rather than directly. That's dumb. You use more resources etc doing it that way for no reason. Cheers! On 1/20/11, shaun everiss wrote: > what about nvda with the nvda controler client dll. > THats not gona be that hard to do, nvda doesn't block keys. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi, Unfortunately this is true. Eloquence is actually Sapi 4 based not Sapi 5 based. The Dectalk has its own API. Although Fonix did produce a Sapi 5 compatible version of Fonixtalk, AKA Dectalk, for a while. However, it is my understanding they discontinued the Sapi 5 version of Fonixtalk. The best way to support Eloquence is to purchase an SDK for it and wrap Viavoice Outloud directly. It is pretty simple to do and the API for Eloquence AKA Viavoice Outloud is very straight forward for a C++ developer. Problem is that the SDK costs quite a bit to license. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Damien Pendleton wrote: > Hi Dark, > Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I > tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a > low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, > slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be > sample-based rather than formant-based. > Regards, > Damien. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, BGT already has Sapi support, so this is as you say not strictly necessary but a lot of people requested it, and it won't take me very long to integrate so I figured that I might as well get it over and done with. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Philip, Interesting. I'm glad to know you found a solution for this rather annoying problem with Jaws. Although, I personally am still against direct screen reader support. I think it is A, unnecessary, and B, a very bad idea for several reasons. People who are asking for it aren't necessarily programmers and don't really have a clue what they are asking for. It is like a little kid who wants to eat an entire bag of candy. He/she wants it not fully realising by eating that bag of candy it will make them sick and damage their teeth. Same deal with adding screen reader support. People want it not realising or particularly caring if doing so is in the best intrest of their game products or not. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Philip Bennefall wrote: > Hi all, > > I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very > beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for > my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of > keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded > and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. > > Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which > basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether > input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, > as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as > the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to > set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook > rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take > priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard > hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and > DirectInput are now the best of friends. > > I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell > everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific > keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as > though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other > words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while > preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. > > Just some information I figured I would share with you. > > Kind regards, > > Philip Bennefall > --- > Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org > If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to > gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. > You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at > http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. > All messages are archived and can be searched and read at > http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. > If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, > please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. > --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Dark, Synth voices like Eloquence and Dectalk are hard to get for SAPI 5 though. I tend to find with SAPI that you go from one extreme to the other. Either a low-sampled, quick but hard to understand one, or a high-sampled, large, slow, laggy, easy to understand one. However they all seem to be sample-based rather than formant-based. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: "dark" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All m
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hal can be scripted with Lua, and I don't imagine adding support would be completely evil, it's just nobody has done it yet because most people who do use Hal can just use sapi anyway, -hence my previous point. In fact the only game that does have any sort of Hal support, lone wolf I have found to work far better with sapi anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:13 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT well then there is new supernova, I know they use lua scripts but I don't know. At 05:58 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Not to mention Sapi. there are those of us who use Hal, and thus don't have any of the above, in fact my personal feeling is why add support for several windows screen readers which some people may or may not have when you can do just as well with sapi which everyone has. Sorry, but it just seems silly to develope support for five different systems in an effort to please everyone when you could do it with just the one. The only issue there is with sapi sis that not everyone will have a decent voice, but this is a synth voice issue not a screen reader one, and with companies like seerprock, acapella neospeech etc producing good quality sapi compliant voices which no longer cost the earth to buy, it's a good investment for anyone who wants to play audio games. in fact, I regard buying a sapi voice as rather like buying a joystick where audio games are concerned. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: "'Philip Bennefall'" ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:58 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Shaun, NVDA has never presented a problem. However, I wasn't going to spend time adding support for the other less major screen readers if I couldn't get support working for the most commonly used one. So the key has been to get Jaws and BGT running together, and now that I have accomplished that I can begin adding support for the others as well. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: ; "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT what about nvda with the nvda controler client dll. THats not gona be that hard to do, nvda doesn't block keys. At 05:51 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
well then there is new supernova, I know they use lua scripts but I don't know. At 05:58 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
what about nvda with the nvda controler client dll. THats not gona be that hard to do, nvda doesn't block keys. At 05:51 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi Karl, I have plans to add support for the other screen readers as well, though Jaws is my primary target as it is still the most widely used screen reader out there. Rather than selecting a screen reader automatically, however, I'd rather let the user see a list of the available ones and allow them to select one based on that. Who knows, in some obscure case a user might have both NVDA and Jaws for instance. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall - Original Message - From: "Karl Belanger" To: ; "'Gamers Discussion list'" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 5:58 PM Subject: RE: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
true mike. To know you actually ordered the game and are happy to wait an extra month may just mean something to those that think of complaining. I should again congratulate tom on being as open has he is with everying down to ideas. While he doesn't post every week if something needs it he does. True for a well he nursed things along by posting every month till people had trust now he just posts when ever but now we trust him mostly and so we don't mind the waits. At 12:40 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
thats true. However if anything can be salvaged from this although the games are not tom's ideas it should enable tom to show off what spin he can put on stuff in general. I support him as allways but I can understand other user standpoint. I am having issue with a new reader upgrade and I am almost at wits end if I hadn't got training to solve issues I'd probably be swearing at someone about now. At 12:27 a.m. 21/01/2011, you wrote: People that complain while it's being developed may be a bit frustrating/irritating, but it's more important that when you finally do release what you consider as a final version, that noone can then really complain about the product as a whole - but on the other hand, you will most likely then also get people complaining that either it's more than/not what they expected, or not the same as they were hoping for. Another (silly) saying among some developers is that the only completely satisfied end-user can be yourself, since even what we call identical twins aren't 100% the same all the way through - as in each and every person in the world/universe will always have a slightly differing opinion regarding products, outcomes, reasons for things happening, the way they were carried out, etc. etc. What it comes down to is, you need to make sure you're satisfied with the whole process, and the resulting product, etc., and then other people's opinions/take thereof will in fact be useful/of interest. Anyway, I'll shut my mouth now, but, you get my drift... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that makes sense. Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyss
Re: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
If you add Jaws support, please also add support for Window-Eyes, System Access, and NVDA as not everyone uses or even owns Jaws. What I'd recommend is have it autodetect the screen reader currently running, and interface with it. Karl -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Philip Bennefall Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:52 AM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Screen reader support in BGT
Hi all, I have been opposed to adding screen reader support into BGT since the very beginning, though I am beginning to change my mind. The primary reason for my not wanting to do it has been the fact that Jaws steals a large number of keys from DirectInput, making it very hard to play games if Jaws is loaded and not in sleep mode. However, I have just managed to solve this problem. Jaws uses what is known as a low level, system wide keyboard hook which basically monitors the state of the keyboard device and decides whether input should be allowed through so that other applications can see it. Jaws, as we all know, decides that a lot of keys should not be let through such as the arrows, escape and a whole bunch of others. So what I have done is to set up a low level keyboard hook of my own, though a process specific hook rather than a global one. Why? Because process specific hooks always take priority over global ones, which means that I can simply tell my keyboard hook to allow everything through... And there you have it. Jaws and DirectInput are now the best of friends. I am going to enable this as an option in BGT, because even though I tell everything to go straight through it does block certain Jaws specific keystrokes from being processed while you are in the window, almost as though Jaws had been in sleep mode though it technically is not. In other words, this will enable me to add support for Jaws speech output while preventing Jaws from messing about with the keyboard input. Just some information I figured I would share with you. Kind regards, Philip Bennefall --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi Tom. I think creating all new maps would be good that way you could put your own ideas in to what the levels should look like where as if you have a set level structure then you would not have that much control on how the levels were laid out. I think that this would make the game more exciting so in short go for it. from Mich. - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:51 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
If you can come up with a way to allow volume changes inside topspeed without having to alt+tab, that'd be great. Sometimes Ineed to change the volume without having the chance to stop driving long enough to alt+tab out and back in. It comes down to a loud vehicle and I start racing and discover I need to turn it down to be able to hear the other sounds more clearly. Yes that turns down the other sounds too, but for me with my hearing aids it does help for some reason. On 1/20/2011 11:13 AM, Valiant8086 wrote: Well, that's ok, since your attempt to fix the volume control didn't work for me anyway. I wonder if you couldn't check specifically for volume up and down and pass it on through somehow? On 1/20/2011 4:25 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be sea
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
Well, that's ok, since your attempt to fix the volume control didn't work for me anyway. I wonder if you couldn't check specifically for volume up and down and pass it on through somehow? On 1/20/2011 4:25 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-arch
Re: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder
Hi Burak, Just get rid of them. Thomas and Raul will adventually take this down. - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 8:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder We understand it, dont right it anymore. saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Gamers Chat Robot" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder Ever wanted to hear what a certain gamer really sounds like? Ever wanted to ask the developer a question about that cool game? Developers, ever wanted to get to know your players? Ever wanted to be able to answer questions asked by your players? Here is your chance to do all these things and more. All you need is a Windows system with a working sound card and microphone. The service is free to use after you complete the simple registration process. The site is http://www.for-the-people.com and the chat room is the Games People Play. This notice reminder is for the Thursdays gamer chat which goes on until when ever. The Time: Well, that depends on where you are at. Below is a simple chart showing time zones in the US as well as universal time. Thursdays starting at: 6PM Pacific 7PM Mountain 8PM Central 9PM Eastern 1AM Friday morning Universal Hope to see you there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
[Audyssey] Moderator's note about the Game Chat Reminders
This was my fault cause I thought I had stopped the notifications. Turns out it was the Saturday ones. In the future anything to do with the list and how it's run needs to be sent directly to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. Anyone who breaks this rul will have themselves moverated. Thanks. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
hi thomas, Personally, I think you should do what you can do best, because you know it will compensate for the public in the end. Professionally, My public listen to me enough to know that if i say they have to wait, it is for their own good. We at the blind games brazil community have a wonderful relation with our people, and the vast majority of them understands us when we request them to wait for something. Plus, they will be calmed down with beta 17, as we discussed. thanks, Mauricio almeida -Mensagem original- De: "Liam Erven" Para: "'Gamers Discussion list'" Data: Quarta, 19 de Janeiro de 2011 22:53 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start ramping up the difficulty as you go. You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before you throw a maze at them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_au
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
What we have here is an imperfect situation. I can absolutely sympathise with people's eagerness to just get the game. I'm one of those who pre-ordered the original game when I didn't even have to. James North would likely have given me a free copy to review for Audyssey but I wanted to show my support for this particular project of his. I'm out just as much as everyone else but I know when I see a masterpiece in the making. A little more patience and moral support from all of us now could yield far more entertainment that we'll get in the final product. The changes he's thinking of here will add many happy hours or even weeks of fun to people's ultimate experience of the game. Additionally, Tom will be more satisfied with his creation and we'll have a better artist for that going forward as he tackles Raceway and other projects. There's never been a situation quite like this and I doubt we'll see such again. I'd like to see this turn into the very best game that it can for the time, patience, money and upheaval we've all gone through over this project. What's another month or even three months when you consider how much time has already been invested? Instead of just taking the easy way out, Tom offers us something better and all he asks in return is some patience. I for one am more than happy to give him that time. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "shaun everiss" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 6:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If yo
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
People that complain while it's being developed may be a bit frustrating/irritating, but it's more important that when you finally do release what you consider as a final version, that noone can then really complain about the product as a whole - but on the other hand, you will most likely then also get people complaining that either it's more than/not what they expected, or not the same as they were hoping for. Another (silly) saying among some developers is that the only completely satisfied end-user can be yourself, since even what we call identical twins aren't 100% the same all the way through - as in each and every person in the world/universe will always have a slightly differing opinion regarding products, outcomes, reasons for things happening, the way they were carried out, etc. etc. What it comes down to is, you need to make sure you're satisfied with the whole process, and the resulting product, etc., and then other people's opinions/take thereof will in fact be useful/of interest. Anyway, I'll shut my mouth now, but, you get my drift... Stay well Jacob Kruger Blind Biker Skype: BlindZA '...fate had broken his body, but not his spirit...' - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 9:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that makes sense. Stay well Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
Is this new file? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 In any event, this should fix the problem by changing DirectInput back to how it was. Please tell us if it's still doing strange things. --> http://rubyaccess.com/TopSpeed.exe Thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Kai" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 I fail to understand why you're replying to an email explaining why Top Speed is behaving in this fashion with a direct request on how to fix the problem. The developer says right in the email message you replied to that a possible solution is already being considered. is a little patience beyond the capabilities of some gamers? I oft wonder why free game developers bother, what with the demanding audience they're catering to. Kai - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 hi, I am in topspeed, I want to shift a gear, it is saying ding and shifting gear. I dont want this ding. How can I fix it? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p4600
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
well tom, they have been waiting a fecking long time for the games. That you had to write your own engine has slowed things down. TO be fair if I was a preorder user I'd probably be going down your throat at you, flaming, swearing and such. These people have waited years and years for this game or games. I think they are rather fed up with the waiting. This is not your fault, the new engine for the most part really rocks and will enable you to do a major load of stuff. But they don't care anymore they want the fecking game after all they payed for it!!! At 08:09 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi Jacob, That's absolutely right. The problem is though that I have taken a lot of personal heat and criticism over how I have managed this game project so far. I took time out to rewrite/convert the engine from C# to C++, I took some time to look at SFML and SDL for cross-platform development, etc and all some people did is nothing but wine and complain that the game isn't getting finished on their personal time table. In fact, someone publicly balled me out on the USA Games list around two weeks ago complaining about how frustrated he was that neither Raceway or Mysteries of the Ancients was finished. According to him I took over the games from James North in 2006 and that was plenty enough time to have at least one of these games done in 2008. Although, he didn't come out and say it he hinted around in a round about way that I was goofing off and fooling around rather than programming the games he paid for etc. That's a rather typical message I get in my inbox all too often. So with that in mind you can hardly blame me if I'm less than eager to rewrite a couple of levels and expand the game itself knowing there is bound to be a few loons out there accusing me of intentionally delaying the release, goofing off, or whatever when in reality I'm busting my butt off to improve the game for their benifit. Never mind the fact I didn't have to acquire the rights to Raceway etc from James North in the first place. Doesn't make me feel all that apreciated when they do that to me. Cheers! On 1/20/11, Jacob Kruger wrote: > Your ideas sound good to me - an old joke as a developer is you need to want > to do it the way you're doing it to get it done exactly right - if that > makes sense. > > Stay well > > Jacob Kruger --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
aggreed with you liam. At 05:53 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: I'd start with simple levels to ease the player in to the game, and start ramping up the difficulty as you go. You may even want to make level 1 just a few rooms with a few ladders so that the gamer can actually get used to the controlls and navigating before you throw a maze at them. -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Thomas Ward Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 10:52 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all improvements to the game itself in my book. However, my worry is that if I take a little time perhaps an extra month to really redo the game and add these new revisions I'm going to take a lot of unnecessary heat from the community. I've already taken enough heat for various things like switching programming languages in the middle of development, attempting to add cross-platform support, and other things like that. I really don't want to make people any more upset or frustrated with me than I absolutely have too. So it is up to you if you really think these revisions or worth it, or you want me to just complete the game without them. Finally, if we do decide to go with the more complex level maps we have a couple of ways of going about it. We could base them off of a game like Montezuma's Revenge, which is what this game started out as to begin with, or we could just create some all new original maps. Let me know what you think. Cheers! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any ques
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
tom, part of me would like the complex maps. However not exactly like mota. in level1, there are a couple chasm traps, and a lava trap. Or is that a fire trap. Ok, simple, but good for starters. You could add that the chasms had lava or spikes in them or both. Burning ropes? Well if we put them in then we would have to have ropes in areas you didn't need to ever go up again. ie in level2, where you need to jump down a rope to get some items you could have a burning rope, since you don't need to go back. I am not sure about vanishing platforms but with bridges and such like the one in level2 you could have it that once over it the bridge would have to go back up and well. I usually run across it so you could time it for a bit I guess. You could also set the statues to automatically lock again aafter you unlock them and open em but then you couldn't have monsters in the enterence point of a room they would have to be in the end or something so the player would have time to run through. At this stage though I think you should just finnish the game, ofcause if like the origional monti, you had platforms and portals that would rock. You could have other ways to do things in say level2 chasm, you can pull the bridge or wait for a platform, each platform is obviously say 2 jumps wide, this one would be say 3-4 jumps. In the middle of that platform could be a portal. if you jumped to the right place then the platform vannished you would fall into the chasm but enter the portal, you then could have a bonus level where you picked up items. at the end of that level could be lava which you would jump into, and then enter another portal. you could then be at the end of the chasm on the other side say 3 steps from the edge or a couple meters. Ofcause this portal would have to be semi random or the items could be. You could choose to jump things or just do a couple jumps portal then get things with the potentual to get something. However I'd fall short of being to haisty on modifications. You really need like 20 levels for what I am thinking about. 1/2 keep the same every level after 2 add a new trap or whatever. till say 12, add more monsters and things maybe places to jump. Another idea is to get unlockable traps. You can find a trap, say the spikes in level2. If you jumped one sets then jumped the second but immediately say within a 5 second period steped back onto the spike you could get it or get something falling which you could get. It would probably work better for the blade. you could jump the blade or whatever. if you walked over the blade while hitting enter, well if you didn't have the sword you could get that if you already have that you could get more power added to this you could make some bosses more powerfull. Ofcause you couldn't just hit walk and enter, say a combo like alt control right shift and enter once over the blade you would have 5 secs to do that else you died or something. However you may just like to do stuff as it is and make say an expantion pack for mota, I think a lot of people aspecially for those that have been waiting for the origional game for a while. Right now as it is I think its ok. At 05:51 p.m. 20/01/2011, you wrote: Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOT
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
In any event, this should fix the problem by changing DirectInput back to how it was. Please tell us if it's still doing strange things. --> http://rubyaccess.com/TopSpeed.exe Thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Kai" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:31 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 I fail to understand why you're replying to an email explaining why Top Speed is behaving in this fashion with a direct request on how to fix the problem. The developer says right in the email message you replied to that a possible solution is already being considered. is a little patience beyond the capabilities of some gamers? I oft wonder why free game developers bother, what with the demanding audience they're catering to. Kai - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 hi, I am in topspeed, I want to shift a gear, it is saying ding and shifting gear. I dont want this ding. How can I fix it? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyss
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Personally, I've been waiting this long and have no problem with you taking the time to add these puzzle elements into the game. I'll certainly understand completely if you decide to bow to pressure from people less patient and more short-sighted about this. God knows you and your wife have been stretched on the rack and then some by this project.. However, please consider; The more such elements you can add to it, the greater replay value the game will have and the more paying customers you'll ultimately get for it as word spreads over time of the game's higher quality. Take the time you need to do the best sidescroller you can and you won't find yourself looking back later as a dissatisfied artist. I've been there and done that with some of my creative projects over the years. You'll also emmencely please folks like me who have been keenly following your work from day one. Due to the level of preorders you have to honour, you won't make as much money on this project as others you do in future. However, you should look at this as a chance to show us the kind of work we can expect from you as you pursue your own ideas. Take the time to do it right and people will come to your defence when others less patient give you a rough time. You've come an incredibly long way indeed since that easter weekend I remember when you were on the verge of packing it in. As a fellow creator and due to my having edited Audyssey for so many years, I have a deep admiration and appreciation of how far you've come on this journey as a person. You give me an example of someone to point to when people say that the best years of accessible games are behind us. Only you can ultimately decide what's best in this situation. You'll likely take flack either way unless people have been paying attention and have learned something of patience and respect over the past while. I hope you'll find the strength and persevereance to go that extra mile. Either way though, you've won me over as a supporter. Best of luck to you Tom. Michael Feir Owner of Silver Smiles Join and share the silver lining in your life. Group home page: http://groups.google.com/group/silver-smiles 2010-- Twitter: mfeir Skype: michael-feir Author of Personal Power: How Accessible Computers Can Enhance Personal Life For Blind People 2006-2008 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/personal-power.html A Life of Word and Sound 2003-2007 http://michaelfeir.blogspot.com/2009/01/life-of-word-and-sound.html Creator and former editor of Audyssey Magazine 1996-2004 Check out my blog at: www.michaelfeir.blogspot.com - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Wednesday, January 19, 2011 11:51 PM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
I fail to understand why you're replying to an email explaining why Top Speed is behaving in this fashion with a direct request on how to fix the problem. The developer says right in the email message you replied to that a possible solution is already being considered. is a little patience beyond the capabilities of some gamers? I oft wonder why free game developers bother, what with the demanding audience they're catering to. Kai - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 1:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 hi, I am in topspeed, I want to shift a gear, it is saying ding and shifting gear. I dont want this ding. How can I fix it? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder
We understand you. Please don't write anymore about the announcements. I've been a list member forever and they've never bothered me. They're sent out every once in a while. is it really that big of a deal to hit the delete key? Honestly. You guys treat these messages as if they were a personal offense. They're but a single email, one keystroke away. Some people are so blind to the fact that others might actually have a life... Kai - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:09 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder We understand it, dont right it anymore. saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Gamers Chat Robot" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder Ever wanted to hear what a certain gamer really sounds like? Ever wanted to ask the developer a question about that cool game? Developers, ever wanted to get to know your players? Ever wanted to be able to answer questions asked by your players? Here is your chance to do all these things and more. All you need is a Windows system with a working sound card and microphone. The service is free to use after you complete the simple registration process. The site is http://www.for-the-people.com and the chat room is the Games People Play. This notice reminder is for the Thursdays gamer chat which goes on until when ever. The Time: Well, that depends on where you are at. Below is a simple chart showing time zones in the US as well as universal time. Thursdays starting at: 6PM Pacific 7PM Mountain 8PM Central 9PM Eastern 1AM Friday morning Universal Hope to see you there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
Please wait a few hours and there'll be a new TopSpeed.exe that should fix it. - Original Message - From: "burakyuksek" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:54 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 hi, I am in topspeed, I want to shift a gear, it is saying ding and shifting gear. I dont want this ding. How can I fix it? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
hi, I am in topspeed, I want to shift a gear, it is saying ding and shifting gear. I dont want this ding. How can I fix it? saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Davy Kager" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 11:25 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gam
Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3
Hello, Your donations are always appreciated, of course. The "Ding"-bug is caused by the keyboard focus being placed on the Top Speed logo. As of yet we haven't found a way to get around this, other than simply not displaying the logo. This is why we will most likely switch DirectInput back to what's called "exclusive cooperative level". This means your keyboard will be mostly blocked, and on some computers even your volume controls break. The solution to this is to Alt+Tab out of Top Speed and then do whatever you wanted to do. At least this gets rid of the dinging. :-) Many thanks, Davy - Original Message - From: "Valiant8086" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 12:15 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] Some background info on Top Speed 3 Hi. I would be willing to pay for topspeed 3, especially when you get a couple of the bugs that are causing me problems figured out. I race multiplayer with topspeed 3 just about every day, and have been playing topspeed multiplayer with others online for a year now. I want to pay for topspeed. I want to donate for topspeed 3 actually, but am waiting for the bug where my computer does a default ding sound over and over when I try to use my keyboard to race. If you decide to reproduce topspeed in a different language, I'm hoping you make it very similar. Like the ability to replace the soundpack with my own, that is an important one. I have to modify the sounds a lot to help me be able to play with my hearing problems, and being able to just make a new languages, even if it's still english, is a tremendous help. If you developed a new version of topspeed, and I liked it, I'd certainly pay to have it. Thanks for all your communication with your excited topspeed fans, and all the interaction on twitter and on this list that goes on to fix issues. I personally don't want topspeed to stop being developed, that goes as far as me paying for a new one built from the ground up. The only thing is whether your new version is as perfect as the current version is. It's going to be hard. This is my favorite game, and that's saying a lot. I'm not saying I don't like anyone else's games, I'm just a blind person who happens to be into engines. I live on a farm and am involved with tractors, trucks, stuff like this. I eat this topspeed game up and I want more! This game is like made specifically to please me, that's how I feel about it, and I'm not trying to flatter. I just might have produced more cars for this game than anyone else, No proof of that though. Last time I counted Iwas at around 17. Anybody made more than that? Ok sorry about the poor typing, but I composed this in a hurry, I'm getting ready to do a race, and wanted to get this sent off first, and no I'm not joking just to be dramatic, I really am hurrying off to do a multiplayer race with someone who just got home and can host a server on the connection there finally. *lol*. On 1/18/2011 5:51 AM, Davy Kager wrote: Hello! I just posted this to AudioGames.net. If you're disappointed because you can't use custom vehicles in multi-player mode, this may be a fun thing for you to read. Furthermore, I talked about what we currently think will be the future of Top Speed. I'd love to have some community feedback on this one. The post is located at http://forum.audiogames.net/viewtopic.php?pid=46007#p46007 Thanks, Davy --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels
Hi tom. Despite the extra time I really do think more complex levels are worth it. Takee a look at this table. it lists the number of screen or rooms in each level for snes prince of persia, and the number of enemies found on those levels. bare in mind that each screen has three levels, so for vertical hight you can just about multiply each number by 3. Level Sections-- LevelEnemies --- 1125--10 8 224-- 2 7 424--12 6 824--18 6 1224--16 5 1824--19 5 1924-- 4 4 123-- 6 4 323-- 8 4 623--11 4 723--13 4 1323--15 4 1423-- 3 3 1523-- 7 3 1623-- 9 3 519--14 3 1019-- 1 2 916-- 5 2 17 7--17 1 20 6--20 1 --- Total 418-- Total 79 Ignoring the number of enemies thing (sinse afterall, prince of persia was never a really serious fighting game, this does show the sort of size of a complex comparable game to Mota, and I think you'll agree that something far larger is needed. Also I completely agree on traps, in fact it's the traps and puzles aspect that really occurs to me most when I think of this genre. As for map design, I'd personallly say write all new ones, - afterall, montizumas revenge is a completely separate game afterall. Rather than just dumping the work you've got thus far though, how about keeping the original first level, sinse it provides a very good and easy intro to the game, but then afterwards getting creative with the mazes etc. All the best, Dark. --- - Original Message - From: "Thomas Ward" To: "Gamers Discussion list" Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 4:51 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Mysteries of the Ancients Levels Hi everyone, Here is a little something I've been thinking about for a while now, but have been to occupied building the Genesis Engine to really think about Mysteries of the Ancients specifically. So now that the engine is pretty much squared away at this point I can now focus my full attention on designing Mysteries of the Ancients. Which is precisely what I am going to be doing over the next few weeks. In brief my ideas and thoughts have been surrounding the level maps. I don't know about you personally, but I can't help but think that the current levels, levels 1 and 2, are just a tad too simplistic for my liking. Basically, what we have currently is a simple split level map with an upper and lower level, and about 20 rooms in a 20 by 300 grid. Otherwise it is just your basic side-scroller starting from the left side of the screen and ending on the right side of the screen. However, yesterday when I picked up my game pad to test and play Mysteries of the Ancients it brought to mind all of the classic side-scrollers I use to play when I was sighted. One of the big ones is puzzle elements. Montezuma's Revenge is a great case in point. One of the things that made Montezuma's Revenge such a great game is that there were 11 2d mazes the player had to solve in order to beat the game. Each maze had 25 rooms spread out over five floors. There were various other puzzle elements throughout like vanishing platforms, color coded keys required to unlock doors, burning torches to light dark rooms, force fields, and so on. Plus there were traps like fire pits, chasms, burning ropes, etc to jump over/avoid. In short, in terms of the level maps alone games like Montezuma's Revenge is far more complex and I can't help but feel as though MOTA doesn't quite live up to its full potential as a treasure hunting game. Another game that strikes me as another good example is Tomb Raider Prophecy for the Nintendo Gameboy. While the levels themselves were not as complex as Montezuma's Revenge in design they were more difficult in terms of traps and puzzle elements. For example, there were trick doors that when you pulled a lever they would open and after a couple of seconds they would close again. That made it a real challenge to run through the door before it smashes you flat or locks you out of that chamber. Basically, what I'm saying is that I know I can do a lot more to make Mysteries of the Ancients a much better game. Add more puzzle elements, add a better maze design to the levels, and add more traps, etc to the game. All of these would be over all i
Re: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder
We understand it, dont right it anymore. saygilar sevgiler. - Original Message - From: "Gamers Chat Robot" To: Sent: Thursday, January 20, 2011 10:00 AM Subject: [Audyssey] Game Chat Reminder Ever wanted to hear what a certain gamer really sounds like? Ever wanted to ask the developer a question about that cool game? Developers, ever wanted to get to know your players? Ever wanted to be able to answer questions asked by your players? Here is your chance to do all these things and more. All you need is a Windows system with a working sound card and microphone. The service is free to use after you complete the simple registration process. The site is http://www.for-the-people.com and the chat room is the Games People Play. This notice reminder is for the Thursdays gamer chat which goes on until when ever. The Time: Well, that depends on where you are at. Below is a simple chart showing time zones in the US as well as universal time. Thursdays starting at: 6PM Pacific 7PM Mountain 8PM Central 9PM Eastern 1AM Friday morning Universal Hope to see you there. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gamers@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
