Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Eleanor, I just read your white paper, and it was definitely a good read. Although, it focused on vidio game accessibility this is actually an issue that effects all software products and developers equally. Far too many software manufacturers create a certain software product, and then only add accessibility to the software as an after thought. Usually the claim is that adding accessibility costs to much. However, as your white paper clearly pointed out the Baby Boomer generation, those whith the majority of the money, are getting older, are becoming disabled themselves, and could use accessible software more than ever. This is where some companies like Apple are way ahead of the Windows PC market in terms of a universal accessibility framework. Not only does Mac OS 10.6 come with a decent screen reader built into the operating system the entire accessibility framework of the operating system has been completely designed in such a way that any application written using the official Apple APIs and programming standards should be fairly accessible out of the box, and adding that accessibility doesn't cost the developer more time and effort to make the software that way as the accessibility is included into Mac's toolkits, APIs, etc. As I see it as a game developer the same kind of strategy can be used in producing accessible vidio games. A lot of vidio games out there are built using a fully qualified game engine. If they took the time to add text to speech support, closed captioning, and one-handed mode to the engine itself any future games built using that engine could use those accessibility features without much added time and expense in developing the games themselves. However, the game companies have to make a reasonable effort to add the accessibility into the game engine itself before they produce the game/games. If they do that the cost of development will be spread out over the entire population of disabled and non-disabled gamers. One problem is, as I personally see it, is the colleges and universities themselves are not pushing for better accessibility standards. Instead they will teach a new programmer the basics of programming using Java, C++, Visual Basic .Net, whatever but there is no discussion on ways to make an application accessible to someone with any kind of disability. Therefore there is a large majority of programmers out there completely unaware of products like Jaws, Window-Eyes, Zoom Text, etc, and most of them don't have any idea how to go about making a program accessible in the first place. So from my point of view we really should start with the class room and teach new programmers how to make software accessible as they are learning. Get them when they are young and just starting out. Teach them the fundimentals of accessibility before they go to work for Activision, EA Games, or go into business for themselves. On 5/28/10, Eleanor elea...@7128.com wrote: As a developer who is interested in making accessible games, I read all you folks had to say about what you want in audiogames. Yes, it would be great if these kinds of games would be available. The problem as I see it is that it is not only not economically feasible to do these kinds of games, it is basically impossible without a far larger market than the number of blind and visually impaired gamers that are presently around. That said, there is a possible answer. I just got back from the Games For Health conference where I presented at the Accessibility Day track. What I was talking about is that as people age, the percent of those with one or more disability increases dramatically. Over 40% of the over 65 year olds reported one or more disability in the past US census. I don't know what the new census will show and it probably won't be available until 2014. That has the potential to increase the number of people who would be interested in audio games. Stephanie from the AbleGamers Foundation and I did a white paper that shows the potential lost revenue game developers are facing in the next five years if they don't make games accessible. You can read the paper on our website, www.7128.com. Also, there was a workshop at the conference that Philip Benefal was supposed to participate in via telephone/skype, and the Internet connection went down just before the workshop so the leader couldn't contact Philip. The topic that was being discussed was audio game development on mobile devices that could be used by people who are exercising to make the time fly by and encourage more time exercising. These obviously would be simple games both because of the platform limitations and the fact you don't want the depth of involvement you get in a game like Entombed. BUT - and this is the BIG thing that might come from this type of game development, if you get sighted players interested in and willing to buy audio games you have just magically increased your market considerably. If you
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
and you know Thomas, without the games we have and who the hell who says the sounds are no good, not me for sure. without the games we now have this forum wouldn't be here and no one would be complaining. Now I've had my computer fixed and can play games again I am revelling in what games I have and planning what games I am going to buy. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 7:53 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. There no comparison between what you've been up to and what Yohandy's been up to as far as moving ahead in the blind gaming community. It's time for him to become an athlete, regardless of how skilled he starts out, or quit being an inexperienced umpire of the high school leagues trying to call a Major League game. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
and Canada as well for law changes. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: dark d...@xgam.org To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 12:59 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. The basic issue is that graphics programming is it's own can of worms. That's why even though games like time of conflict, shades and sound rts have a minimal graphic display, it's not evey up to nes quality. Adding graphics reasonable enough to appeal to even the sited public who play independent games would take a huge amount of work indeed, --- and may not even be compatible with audio representations of the environment anyway, for instance, you couldn't put packman grapics in packman talks, sinse that would let the sited player see the entire maze and where the ghosts were going, where as someone just playing with sounds only gets to know what's immediately around them. Terraofrmers is really the only game developed from scratch with any kind of graphical support. That being said, this is precisely what the chaps at Gamevial wish to do, though they are coming at it from the other side, sinse they wish to develope audio tools to allow blind people to play their graphical web based games, but have only created some fairly short concept demos thus far. So, the long and short of it is, yes, it's possible but you treble the work load and create a hole bunch of issues for yourself. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Thomas the list, is behind you and grateful for what you and our other developers do all for the delight of doing it too. And if someone can make a little money by selling games good for them. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Saturday, May 29, 2010 4:44 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Well, Well, Well, complaining doesn't really solve the situation. My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 10:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. This is a fair answer and a fair offer. Rather than always complaining like, Why can't you guys create the games I want?, ask, How can I help to create the games I want? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto the accessible games market and while they are not mainstream quality they are certainly better than games like Troopenum. I think you need to look at what is available instead of just assuming every single game is just another Space Invaders clone which they are not. However, you've convinced me we need to do something about this all the same. How about you put your wollet were your mouth is and do something about it for a change? Okay you say you want games like Street Fighter 4 if you agree to fit the bill for sounds, music, and pay me a yearly salary I'll go to work for you bright and early Monday morning. I'm absolutely serious. If you can give me a reasonable income, cover my medical, plus provide me the software and tools I need to create the next great Street Fighter 4 for the blind I'll do it, but I can't do it without money and an income to keep a roof over my head and cover living expenses. I'm not going to do it for free. You say the sounds in accessible games aren't good enough for you. How about purchasing the community a sound library of royalty free sounds from Sound Ideas. Last time I checked a cd costs $$300 to $500 a pop. You can easily put $5,000 into a reasonable sound library jjust to get started making games. If you purchase them for me I'll use them. If not then you'll just have to put up with what I can afford on my budget. Basicly, I don't want to shoot your ideas down, be a wet blanket, but you have to get realistic. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it is realisticly feasable no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. If you believe that is feasable all I'm saying is put your money were your mouth is and make it happen or stop complaining about it. If it truly means that much to you personally then start by purchasing sounds, learn to program, and make a contribution rather than blaming us for failing to reach your quality and standards. Smile. On 5/27/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandy, There are several factors to consider here. Firstly, the blind gaming market is considerably smaller than the mainstream market, which is why people work by themselves on the games. Another contributing factor is the fact that the developers themselves are even fewer than the market they are selling for, which is why they don't just sit in an office hiring out people for millions of dollars to do everything and expecting to still make a profit off them. I can safely sit here, and say that at the time of Acefire's release, I was quite proud of it because I was quite a beginner in coding. Since I am now working with BGT, however, with the help of others, I am slowly building up my abilities and am now in the process of making a sidescroller. Thirdly, we as humans only live so long. If we waited ten years for every audiogame that came out, we would still only have three games to play. I remember the time when I was at secondary school, the only games available to us were Grizzly Gulch, Chillingham and Troopanum, and maybe a few small ones that I weren't exposed to. In that case, during our lifetimes we may only have ten or twelve games, and it would only be in 25 years that we might start catching up to the mainstream market today. That is if the world's end still hasn't wiped us out as has been predicted on more than one occasion. Then there are sounds. You say the ones that are used are mediocre. I agree that the sounds to some games are quite poor, but that is no fault of the developers. Again, we are a small market, and buying professional sounds from Sound Ideas, the BBC, Hollywood Edge etc are very expensive. For the amount of sounds I have purchased in the last year, I would have to release several games and sell them in order to make a profit. Not to mention music, and equipment for making your own music, whatever suits your fancy. As for voice chat, I have been thinking on more than one occasion of putting voice chat into my games, and I sincerely hope that the possibility will find its way into BGT, as I agree that would be a very handy thing. As for playing mainstream games, to be honest I don't know how people can do it if they are blind. I had a Playstation for five years, and never could I sus any of the games that were purchased for me, including fighting games, racing games, boxing games, quiz games, board games, you name it. In the end up, yes, even I as a developer are happy with the games that are available, because they are simple, yet enjoyable. Regards, Damien. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:47 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject:
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandy, For the most part I do agree with your comments below, and as someone who has played several mainstream games over the years I know where you are coming from. However, as a software developer with several years of programming and experience under my belt I have to say your expectations are unrealisticly high. Not saying your ideas and opinions are bad here, but just a bit unrealistic considering the challenges involved in adding voice chat, online pvp play, etc. First of all, the majority of those writing accessible games are not professional programmers. Many have not had any professional training of any kind and are self-taught through books, online tutorials, whatever. Not saying that is bad, but their skills may or may not be up to the challenge of creating something that complex. Like everything else in life if you don't have the necessary training/skills you can't do it. Let me use an example here. PCS Games has created some pretty decent games like Pac-Man Talks and Sarah using the GMA Engine. However, Phil is not a professional programmer, and the extent of his programming per say is limited to scripting the GMA Engine. He can create decent games using that engine, but doesn't have the skills to do what you are talking about on his own. Second of all, there is the issue of time. Since programming games isn't my full time job I don't exactly have all day to spend on writing accessible games. I usually get two or three hours a day tops to work on a game and that is why it is taking me forever to work on a game as relatively simple as Mysteries of the Ancients. The more complex the game the longer it will take. To be blunt about it saying, take ten years if I have to in order to write a really good game, is easy to say when you aren't the person doing all the work, and have to look at it day in and day out. I'll be honest with you. Not counting my failed attempt at Montezuma's Revenge I've been working on Mysteries of the Ancients for two solid years. At this point I am completely burned out on the game, and down right sick of it. I doubt I can stand to work on it another full year let alone spend something like 10 years on a single project. It simply wouldn't be worth it to me personally. Third, there is the issue of money. When we talk mainstream developers we are talking a team of guys who are getting paid at least $60,000 or more to work on games like that. Not only do they have an entire team to work on the project, thus drastically reducing the time to add features like that, they are getting paid to do it. As for myself there is very little financial income from accessible games as it is let alone working my butt off for practically nothing. Over a 10 year period I could release five or more games for the same length of time It took me to create your so-called 10 year project. That is financially speaking more practical and realistic for me. However, all that said I don't think it would take 10 years to do what you ask. It would take at least a couple of years developing an engine that had the features like voice chat, online pvp play, etc. Once those features were designed into the engine it would be possible to create games like you are talking about. Although, it could get expensive creating such an engine. I don't know if you realised this or not but Philip Bennefall has out sourced certain components of the BGT engine to third-party professional developers. Not only does he get high quality work done, it saves him time, but it also is costing him quite a lot of money in the initial investment. I think that was a great idea, but I know I couldn't do it. I don't have a couple thousand or so to pay up front to another developer to help me develope my software. As far as joining with other accessible game developers again that is problematic. Right now the accessible game developers are all over the map as far as programming languages goes. Blind Adrenaline uses C# and Visual Basic .NET, Jim Kitchen uses Visual Basic 6, 7-128 uses Java, Philip Bennefall is developing his BGT Engine in C++, and I'm skilled in several different programming languages. I'm flexable in terms of programming languages, but I'd personally insist that the project be done in C++ which would immediately eliminate Java, Visual Basic, and the AutoIt developers. That basically leaves me with someone like Josh from Draconis and Philip from Blastbay, and I happen to know they have their own projects right now. So between our own projects and likely different schedules I doubt a colaberation between Blastbay, Draconis, and USA Games would be possible. The one thing I think I could do as a developer, though, is continue to maintain games, adding new levels, adding expantions, etc. For example, when Draconis released the ESP Pinball Party pack for Pinball Extreme that was a great idea in my opinion. They made money on an existing game, and it gave users something new to play even though basically it was the same
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Dark, Very very true. One game you didn't mention that has many advanced features is Rail Racer by Blind Adrenaline. It comes with a track editor which allows you to add an unlimited number of custom tracks to the game. It also allows you to earn virtual money that can be turned in for upgrades for your racer. It has a chat client. Plus online racing with others. I have to say for an accessible game it is getting very very close to what Yohandy is talking about already. Then, there is the card games from the Blind Adrenaline card room. Okay they are simple card games, not quite as advanced as Rail Racer, but they are online games, and are pretty par for mainstream card games only accesssible. So that's just an example of where some developers are already heading. Just we are a few years behind the mainstream I guess. On 5/28/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: While I appreciate your frustration, I think your assessment that no developement is being done is, well just plane wrong. Even in the five years that I've been playing audio games, I've noticed a change, larger and more complex games, games with online competition, and games with user created content. As technology improves in developement, so the games will improve, just at a slower wrate than mainstream ones. For a truer comparison, try looking around at some of the independently produced pc games, look at the Smugglers series for instance, same number of devs and amount of resources. and, as for suggestions, well I do have several, but they're mostly being taken into considderation already. The first, is user created content. level editers, sound editers etc. while these are harder to produce, they don't half expand the game. For a look at what effect they can have look at Jim's golf game. Many games though, are now doing this extremely, entombed, Rail Racer, time of conflict sound rts etc. If for example shades of doom had an easily usable level creator which would let you set where the monsters appeared, and make new monsters and items for the game, well we'd probably see a good few expantions. The second thought I have on expantion, is randomness. the more monsters etc are just placed in one place, the less replay a game has. A brilliant example of this is Q9. A simple arcade style game, but you never know where the monsters will appear, thus making it very fresh to play each time, ditto with tom's game. Another suggestion I have is exploration (especially when combined with randomness as in entombed). The more area in a game you need to explore, the longer it'll take you to finish. A final thought is using the online play we have. Afterall, Toc will be far more interesting when it's possible to play against a number of humans than against the computer. This might not be super fast voice chat, but it does the job, and provides a varied playing experience, particularly in games like stratogy games where there is considderable variation in a players' possible actions. Luckily though, these are all trends which are actually being expanded upon anyway, and probably will continue to be in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Totally agreed. On May 27, 2010, at 9:19 PM, Ryan Conroy wrote: I couldn't agree more! -- Original Message -- From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:19:54 -0800 Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Uh. Dude, I doubt every one here is spending their money on iPhones, me included. Lol. On May 27, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Yohandy wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
well I like my nokia and vodaphone. besides the local blind org lets me have talks standard for 100 as part of the vodaphone contract so its not like I am changing to anything else. At 08:16 p.m. 28/05/2010, you wrote: Uh. Dude, I doubt every one here is spending their money on iPhones, me included. Lol. On May 27, 2010, at 9:47 PM, Yohandy wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Indeed, Entombed probably is the best game we have now in terms of playability. I'll say what we don't have though is a game with a complex interactive story. I think 3D Velocity is going to be the hardest game coming out this year, if it even comes out this summer or early fall, it is, in my opinion, the most complex game we have to date with fast paced action. I'm pretty sure Munawar is looking for a change in the audio games as well, so I think he be most definitely be getting the hard, complex game achievement. Add to the fact that the game is real time, of course. I'd even be willing to bet that the speed at which you have to react is almost the same as Hawx, a combat flight game for the PS3. Not to mention other games like this; was just throwing that one out. On May 28, 2010, at 12:21 AM, dark wrote: Hi Yohandi, firstly, I will point out that many games actually do do the expantion bit your talking about. Entombed, rail racer, sound rts, che's card games topspeed, all have lots of expandable content, through user created stuff, --- in fact Ithink this is really going to take off when entombed's dungeon creator is released. Second, as regards online play, that is already being added to as many games in as efficient a way as possible, sound rts and toc already have this and as Phil said it's looking at being added to more games, however lso bare in mind there are people (myself included), who are more concerned about a complete single player experience than online interaction, so saying all games should have this doesn't take into account our taste. finally, the most major and complete thing to remember is resources. Capcom had a massive team of people working on Streetfighter Iv for four a pretty solid couple of years. For Streetfighter I don't know figures, but i do know the latest mortal combat titles have about 100-150 full time programmers working on the game, testing it, putting it through it's paces. Find 150 programmers who will work on an audio game for 2 years, --- and then you might well get the same result. For a fairer comparison it's more reasonable to compare audio games to independent graphical pc games developed with a similar amount of resources and by a similar number of people. One game for example which I play (not accessible unfortunately), is the game Hurrican. This is a very large exploration 2D platform shooter similar to Metroid or Mega man. it has many features, great sound and environments, and even a level creation tool which some people have used to make extra levels. However, while it's certainly as good as games produced 15 years ago on the Snes, and graphically probably equaling a ps1 game, can it equal games produced now? hell no! And how long did it take to develope? five! years! yes, five! years! for a game which is 10-15 years behind what is produced by companies like capcom. That is really the bottom line. Comparing audio games to games like streetfighter Iv, is like comparing a delivery boy with a bicicle to UPs, and asking why the delivery boy can't have that package in Hongkong tomorrow morning! Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Tom. I fully agree on the extra missions and level packs idea, in fact several independent graphical developers have very much followed this model for the same reasons and it's worked out exceedingly well. Look at Niels bauer and their addons as an example. I certainly as a player would be deffinately in favour of for instance buying another six missions from Gma for tank commander for 15 or 20 usd, or even an extra few levels of Mota should you wish to develope them. This would also help financially too. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Very true tom, I did mention rail racer, but I didn't considder the card room, which I certainly should have done. Che is doing a great job there. As I said, I really think things are going very much in the right direction developement wise currently anyway. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:20 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Very very true. One game you didn't mention that has many advanced features is Rail Racer by Blind Adrenaline. It comes with a track editor which allows you to add an unlimited number of custom tracks to the game. It also allows you to earn virtual money that can be turned in for upgrades for your racer. It has a chat client. Plus online racing with others. I have to say for an accessible game it is getting very very close to what Yohandy is talking about already. Then, there is the card games from the Blind Adrenaline card room. Okay they are simple card games, not quite as advanced as Rail Racer, but they are online games, and are pretty par for mainstream card games only accesssible. So that's just an example of where some developers are already heading. Just we are a few years behind the mainstream I guess. On 5/28/10, dark d...@xgam.org wrote: While I appreciate your frustration, I think your assessment that no developement is being done is, well just plane wrong. Even in the five years that I've been playing audio games, I've noticed a change, larger and more complex games, games with online competition, and games with user created content. As technology improves in developement, so the games will improve, just at a slower wrate than mainstream ones. For a truer comparison, try looking around at some of the independently produced pc games, look at the Smugglers series for instance, same number of devs and amount of resources. and, as for suggestions, well I do have several, but they're mostly being taken into considderation already. The first, is user created content. level editers, sound editers etc. while these are harder to produce, they don't half expand the game. For a look at what effect they can have look at Jim's golf game. Many games though, are now doing this extremely, entombed, Rail Racer, time of conflict sound rts etc. If for example shades of doom had an easily usable level creator which would let you set where the monsters appeared, and make new monsters and items for the game, well we'd probably see a good few expantions. The second thought I have on expantion, is randomness. the more monsters etc are just placed in one place, the less replay a game has. A brilliant example of this is Q9. A simple arcade style game, but you never know where the monsters will appear, thus making it very fresh to play each time, ditto with tom's game. Another suggestion I have is exploration (especially when combined with randomness as in entombed). The more area in a game you need to explore, the longer it'll take you to finish. A final thought is using the online play we have. Afterall, Toc will be far more interesting when it's possible to play against a number of humans than against the computer. This might not be super fast voice chat, but it does the job, and provides a varied playing experience, particularly in games like stratogy games where there is considderable variation in a players' possible actions. Luckily though, these are all trends which are actually being expanded upon anyway, and probably will continue to be in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Tom. This is why I feel it's much more realistic and fairer to compare audio game developement to the developement of independent games with similar amounts of man power and resources, such as Hurrican. Generally I'd say audio games are stil slightly behind such things, --- but not by half as wide a margin as behind mainstream games, and also that gap is closing rapidly with more game developements. Of course, there are far more people making graphical pc games independently than audio games, and far more helpful tools, scripts, libraries and other resources kicking about to make them, --- but again, this is deffinately changing. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with sighted developers and make games that both sighted and blind can play? If it could be done, the blind developer might make more money, and might even educate people on what blind people really need and want. Not what the sighted think the blind need. Just my two cents, if I'm making any sense at all. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
The basic issue is that graphics programming is it's own can of worms. That's why even though games like time of conflict, shades and sound rts have a minimal graphic display, it's not evey up to nes quality. Adding graphics reasonable enough to appeal to even the sited public who play independent games would take a huge amount of work indeed, --- and may not even be compatible with audio representations of the environment anyway, for instance, you couldn't put packman grapics in packman talks, sinse that would let the sited player see the entire maze and where the ghosts were going, where as someone just playing with sounds only gets to know what's immediately around them. Terraofrmers is really the only game developed from scratch with any kind of graphical support. That being said, this is precisely what the chaps at Gamevial wish to do, though they are coming at it from the other side, sinse they wish to develope audio tools to allow blind people to play their graphical web based games, but have only created some fairly short concept demos thus far. So, the long and short of it is, yes, it's possible but you treble the work load and create a hole bunch of issues for yourself. Beware the Grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi, That's a very good question. The best answer I can give you is that from a technical aspect audio games and video games are completely different in design. That is that audio games require special features that wouldn't work well in a fully graphical vidio game. Here is a simple case in point. You all know I am working on a game called Mysteries of the Ancients. While I've done my best to give the blind gamer the feel of a fully modern side-scroller there is a lot of things going on under the hood that would not be at all compatible with a vidio game. One thing I am working on right now is a view menu for the Genesis Engine where by you can press a key and it will put all of the items, monsters, doors, etc in a list you can arrow up and down through and hit the enter key to get a description of that object. While this is very handy for a totally blind gamer a feature like that would not at all be desirable in a vidio game. It would freeze the graphics while the blind gamer is viewing the room using his menu, and would slow down and disrupt the action. So things like player verses player or joint game play wouldn't work out at all with a feature like that. Besides that, there are other things I do I wouldn't normally do if this was a graphical game. One of these is while you press a key to speak your health, location, and other status the main game loop is paused. This allows you to get current on demand information without enemies swarming you and beating you to death before you can respond. Sighted mainstream games obviously don't do this because there are ways of acquiring that information on screen inreal time. In a game like Halo there are color bars on the screen that show you how much health is remaining. Maximum health is blue, good health is green, low health is yellow, and critical health status is red. A sighted player can just glance at the color bar and see what his/her status is without hearing it which is much faster than waiting to have it spoken out to you word for word. Plus, as stated erlier pausing the game loop in order to have something spoken out to the player woulde freeze the game. The vidio would be very choppy, not in sink with the audio, and it just is a very difficult thing to pull off from a technical aspect as far as I am concerned. Can it be done? Yes, it can be done. Games like Teraformers and Smugglers has proven it can be done, but there is a whole can of worms involved in sorting out the technical aspects of making it enjoyable for a mainstream gamer while bolting on accessibility without effecting the over all game play. I imagine this would be easier for some games than others. On 5/28/10, Rick twelvestring...@verizon.net wrote: Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with sighted developers and make games that both sighted and blind can play? If it could be done, the blind developer might make more money, and might even educate people on what blind people really need and want. Not what the sighted think the blind need. Just my two cents, if I'm making any sense at all. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Good one Thomas. I'd probably be tempted to do the same in your position. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
thats a good idea. Unfortunately there have only been 3 companies that have actually done this. pininteractive with their teraformas game which i borrowed of a friend. my hidef card did not really like one of the rooms in the lower levels. it was in flash anyway. Then there is lastcrusade and the experimental games projects. then the blind eye which never worked that well. There are tads inform and hugo and maybe a couple languages with sound support in them. All in all though unless we can have sighted people in the games universe so to speak I don't think our track record is much over crappy. We have not had a real suffistacated game over teraformas and its not really developped anymore really. There was the game made by jafa which I know a few of us were due to go in. But since I have not been able to contact him I can only assume he is dead or off the net for some reason. At 02:35 a.m. 29/05/2010, you wrote: Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with sighted developers and make games that both sighted and blind can play? If it could be done, the blind developer might make more money, and might even educate people on what blind people really need and want. Not what the sighted think the blind need. Just my two cents, if I'm making any sense at all. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
What? Teriformers? I just hate that game! My audio games for the blind group. Discussions off topic are welcome in the holidays. Talking about games is welcome, talking about computer problems is welcome when their are know holidays but that's only in easter holidays or know holidays. If you want to joyn, just send a blank email to. audiogamesfortheblind+subscr...@googlegroups.com With the subject subscribe in the subject line. Contact infermation. email: muhamme...@googlemail.com msn: muhammed123...@hotmail.co.uk Skype: muhammed.deniz Klango username. muhammed - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. thats a good idea. Unfortunately there have only been 3 companies that have actually done this. pininteractive with their teraformas game which i borrowed of a friend. my hidef card did not really like one of the rooms in the lower levels. it was in flash anyway. Then there is lastcrusade and the experimental games projects. then the blind eye which never worked that well. There are tads inform and hugo and maybe a couple languages with sound support in them. All in all though unless we can have sighted people in the games universe so to speak I don't think our track record is much over crappy. We have not had a real suffistacated game over teraformas and its not really developped anymore really. There was the game made by jafa which I know a few of us were due to go in. But since I have not been able to contact him I can only assume he is dead or off the net for some reason. At 02:35 a.m. 29/05/2010, you wrote: Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with sighted developers and make games that both sighted and blind can play? If it could be done, the blind developer might make more money, and might even educate people on what blind people really need and want. Not what the sighted think the blind need. Just my two cents, if I'm making any sense at all. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto the accessible games market and while they are not mainstream quality they are certainly better than games like Troopenum. I think you need to look at what is available instead of just assuming every single game is just another Space Invaders clone which they are not. However, you've convinced me we need to do something about this all the same. How about you put your wollet were your mouth is and do something about it for a change? Okay you say you want games like Street Fighter 4 if you agree to fit the bill for sounds, music, and pay me a yearly salary I'll go to work for you bright and early Monday morning. I'm absolutely serious. If you can give me a reasonable income, cover my medical, plus provide me the software and tools I need to create the next great Street Fighter 4 for the blind I'll do it, but I can't do it without money and an income to keep a roof over my head and cover living expenses. I'm not going to do it for free. You say the sounds in accessible games aren't good enough for you. How about purchasing the community a sound library of royalty free sounds from Sound Ideas. Last time I checked a cd costs $$300 to $500 a pop. You can easily put $5,000 into a reasonable sound library jjust to get started making games. If you purchase them for me I'll use them. If not then you'll just have to put up with what I can afford on my budget. Basicly, I don't want to shoot your ideas down, be a wet blanket, but you have to get realistic. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it is realisticly feasable no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. If you believe that is feasable all I'm saying is put your money were your mouth is and make it happen or stop complaining about it. If it truly means that much to you personally then start by purchasing sounds, learn to program, and make a contribution rather than blaming us for failing to reach your quality and standards. Smile. On 5/27/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
This is a fair answer and a fair offer. Rather than always complaining like, Why can't you guys create the games I want?, ask, How can I help to create the games I want? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto the accessible games market and while they are not mainstream quality they are certainly better than games like Troopenum. I think you need to look at what is available instead of just assuming every single game is just another Space Invaders clone which they are not. However, you've convinced me we need to do something about this all the same. How about you put your wollet were your mouth is and do something about it for a change? Okay you say you want games like Street Fighter 4 if you agree to fit the bill for sounds, music, and pay me a yearly salary I'll go to work for you bright and early Monday morning. I'm absolutely serious. If you can give me a reasonable income, cover my medical, plus provide me the software and tools I need to create the next great Street Fighter 4 for the blind I'll do it, but I can't do it without money and an income to keep a roof over my head and cover living expenses. I'm not going to do it for free. You say the sounds in accessible games aren't good enough for you. How about purchasing the community a sound library of royalty free sounds from Sound Ideas. Last time I checked a cd costs $$300 to $500 a pop. You can easily put $5,000 into a reasonable sound library jjust to get started making games. If you purchase them for me I'll use them. If not then you'll just have to put up with what I can afford on my budget. Basicly, I don't want to shoot your ideas down, be a wet blanket, but you have to get realistic. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it is realisticly feasable no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. If you believe that is feasable all I'm saying is put your money were your mouth is and make it happen or stop complaining about it. If it truly means that much to you personally then start by purchasing sounds, learn to program, and make a contribution rather than blaming us for failing to reach your quality and standards. Smile. On 5/27/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
[Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
As a developer who is interested in making accessible games, I read all you folks had to say about what you want in audiogames. Yes, it would be great if these kinds of games would be available. The problem as I see it is that it is not only not economically feasible to do these kinds of games, it is basically impossible without a far larger market than the number of blind and visually impaired gamers that are presently around. That said, there is a possible answer. I just got back from the Games For Health conference where I presented at the Accessibility Day track. What I was talking about is that as people age, the percent of those with one or more disability increases dramatically. Over 40% of the over 65 year olds reported one or more disability in the past US census. I don't know what the new census will show and it probably won't be available until 2014. That has the potential to increase the number of people who would be interested in audio games. Stephanie from the AbleGamers Foundation and I did a white paper that shows the potential lost revenue game developers are facing in the next five years if they don't make games accessible. You can read the paper on our website, www.7128.com. Also, there was a workshop at the conference that Philip Benefal was supposed to participate in via telephone/skype, and the Internet connection went down just before the workshop so the leader couldn't contact Philip. The topic that was being discussed was audio game development on mobile devices that could be used by people who are exercising to make the time fly by and encourage more time exercising. These obviously would be simple games both because of the platform limitations and the fact you don't want the depth of involvement you get in a game like Entombed. BUT - and this is the BIG thing that might come from this type of game development, if you get sighted players interested in and willing to buy audio games you have just magically increased your market considerably. If you have a large enough market, you can get a company to invest the type of money it takes to do a game like you want - to have the 30 - 40 people working on it for a couple of years. To have the up-front money to hire actors, get good sound effects and do the work it takes to produce a top notch title. This means that the potential is there to get what you want - but not right away! It will take time for aging gamers to begin to explore what is available to them when they can no longer play the games they are used to. And - the information will have to be available to them so they can find the audio alternative. It will also take time to interest a large number of sighted folk in audio games. They will have to be made, promoted and be good enough to compete with visual games. In the meantime - if we don't support the developers that are making accessible games, they will get discouraged and close up shop. Eleanor Robinson 7-128 Software --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Exactly. Pay me enough and I'll try to learn enough about BGT to create as close a game as possible to what you want. I'm gonna need to save up for the Pro version anyway. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. This is a fair answer and a fair offer. Rather than always complaining like, Why can't you guys create the games I want?, ask, How can I help to create the games I want? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto the accessible games market and while they are not mainstream quality they are certainly better than games like Troopenum. I think you need to look at what is available instead of just assuming every single game is just another Space Invaders clone which they are not. However, you've convinced me we need to do something about this all the same. How about you put your wollet were your mouth is and do something about it for a change? Okay you say you want games like Street Fighter 4 if you agree to fit the bill for sounds, music, and pay me a yearly salary I'll go to work for you bright and early Monday morning. I'm absolutely serious. If you can give me a reasonable income, cover my medical, plus provide me the software and tools I need to create the next great Street Fighter 4 for the blind I'll do it, but I can't do it without money and an income to keep a roof over my head and cover living expenses. I'm not going to do it for free. You say the sounds in accessible games aren't good enough for you. How about purchasing the community a sound library of royalty free sounds from Sound Ideas. Last time I checked a cd costs $$300 to $500 a pop. You can easily put $5,000 into a reasonable sound library jjust to get started making games. If you purchase them for me I'll use them. If not then you'll just have to put up with what I can afford on my budget. Basicly, I don't want to shoot your ideas down, be a wet blanket, but you have to get realistic. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it is realisticly feasable no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. If you believe that is feasable all I'm saying is put your money were your mouth is and make it happen or stop complaining about it. If it truly means that much to you personally then start by purchasing sounds, learn to program, and make a contribution rather than blaming us for failing to reach your quality and standards. Smile. On 5/27/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
There no comparison between what you've been up to and what Yohandy's been up to as far as moving ahead in the blind gaming community. It's time for him to become an athlete, regardless of how skilled he starts out, or quit being an inexperienced umpire of the high school leagues trying to call a Major League game. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Thomas, DO you truly believe if I thought your work was worthless I would've preordered the game? Heck man I can't wait for the game to be released and finally play the entire thing! I wasn't referring personally to you or any other accessible game dev, I was simply stating that we're behind when it comes to the mainstream market and it's disappointing. I never said that you guys must create games due to my specifications. TO be honest with you I'm just so frustrated with the whole issue. you at least got to play many of these mainstream games, but an individual that's been blind since birth has to stick with certain gaming genres. I can't just go and buy Grand theft auto games and start playing them immediately. perhaps this limitation on the mainstream games we can play is what really frustrates me, and the fact that I'll probably never get to play these games. I hear people talking about the latest and greatest games that come out every day, and I can't help but get a bit jealous of the whole thing. I know you guys are doing the best you can, and if I gave the wrong impression I apologize. Oh and Thomas? Don't worry, if I ever become rich I shall pay you a yearly salary and you can make those games for me. How does that sound? hahahaha. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:44 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Hayden, My thoughts exactly. Admitedly I am a bit put out by Yohandy's comments. Not because I don't understand them, as I have played several mainstream games myself I do, but the fact I am unable to meet his standards as a developer. I have put two years into what might be considered an advanced side-scroller compared to other accessible games and am working on a new fully 3d first-person engine in order to create games on par with Tomb Raider, Resident Evil, and Halo in the not to distant future. If that isn't good enough for Yohandy I'm sorry to say that is tuff. I'm doing all I can, and treating my work as though it isn't worth much is a huge slap in the face. If Yohandy really truly wants a game like Street Fighter 4 I'll put up a Paypal donation link and he can start paying me a yearly salary to write the games he wants full time. As my boss I'll also expect him to provide the sounds, music, and pay for software upgrades, etc too in order to produce those games. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandy, Understood. No offense taken. I merely wanted to give my point of view from that of an accessible game developer doing his best to pproduce something a cut or two above the rest. to make a real difference here. Remember I'm just as anoyed, frustrated, and upset as you are that I can't play mainstream games like I once did when I was sighted. For example, I happen to have a Play Station 2 sitting over by my tv with a number of comercial mainstream games I baught for it such as Xena Warrior Princess, several of the Tomb Raider games, and a couple of Star Wars games as well. I also happen to have Star Trek Elite Force 1 and 2 as well As Tomb Raider Legend, Anniversary, and Underworld installed on my PC. While I like those games a lot it really upsets me to no end that I payed good money for those games and get minimal accessibility out of them. If my wife doesn't help me through the games I can't play them. So I totally understand what you are going through. It is because of my experience with mainstream games that I know the difference and know exactly what we are missing here. I began work on my Genesis 3D Engine as I wanted to create something as accessible as the GMA Engine, but with more mainstream features. One thing I happen to have planned is eventually the Genesis Engine will be supporting Microsoft's XAudio2 library for Windows Vista/7 which has some ruly amazing audio support. I'm merely waiting on PB Streemway to support it which I know is coming in the not too distant future. That right there will have a slight advantage over the GMA Engine which currently still uses DirectSound. Another feature I'm working on behind the seens is support for XBox 360 controllers with full force feedback support. I hope to support the mouse, and other gaming devices as well. When it comes to input the Genesis Engine will be right up there with mainstream titles eventually. Of all of its features I think the fact I have written it in C++ is the most important. Do to the fact the way it is being written it uses standard Windows components, libraries, and dependencies. That way it will not only be easier to maintain and support games for newer Windows platforms as they become available, but they will have a much smaller size/footprint. In fact, all of the sounds in MOTA beta 13 uses ogg compression which means I have cut the size of the installation directory in half. Not to mention the installer itself. Then, thanks to Philip Bennefall, I'm strongly considering on replacing the engine's scripting language with Angelscript. Those familiar with BGT will be quite familiar with Angelscript as that is what BGT uses and it is an awesome scripting language. So that is another feature to look forward to in the future. When you come down to it my plans for the future are already quite high. Definitely not going to be producing another Troopenum or similar Space Invaders knock-off. When my engine is ready to go I should be putting out games similar to Elite Force, Tomb Raider, Halo, Soldiers of Fortune, Resident Evil, whatever. They might not be quite as good as modern mainstream games,but of a higher standard and quality than what we have seen in the past for accessible games. P.S. When you begin making millions look me up. On 5/28/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: Thomas, DO you truly believe if I thought your work was worthless I would've preordered the game? Heck man I can't wait for the game to be released and finally play the entire thing! I wasn't referring personally to you or any other accessible game dev, I was simply stating that we're behind when it comes to the mainstream market and it's disappointing. I never said that you guys must create games due to my specifications. TO be honest with you I'm just so frustrated with the whole issue. you at least got to play many of these mainstream games, but an individual that's been blind since birth has to stick with certain gaming genres. I can't just go and buy Grand theft auto games and start playing them immediately. perhaps this limitation on the mainstream games we can play is what really frustrates me, and the fact that I'll probably never get to play these games. I hear people talking about the latest and greatest games that come out every day, and I can't help but get a bit jealous of the whole thing. I know you guys are doing the best you can, and if I gave the wrong impression I apologize. Oh and Thomas? Don't worry, if I ever become rich I shall pay you a yearly salary and you can make those games for me. How does that sound? hahahaha. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandy, You know, if I had millions and millions of dollars that I had made from my previous game titles, I would hire a team to write the background story of the game idea that I have. It might be something like roller coaster tycoon. Next I would hire a team of programmers and sound tech people to write the code and produce the game and sounds for the game. Of course since I had the money, people would apply for the job and do the job as presented to them from me , the project manager. I am thinking that this is how main stream games are produced. I do not think that it would work out so well if a bunch of people with the skills and artistic inspirations got together and tried to paint a picture together. I don't believe that we have enough skilled blind programmers and enough money to put up to just hire skilled people to do the programming etc to produce the same type of games that the money produces for sighted gamers. It to me is not the same as asking us who inspirer to make the games for the blind to all just get together and work together to produce games. TGIF and BFN Jim HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CIVIL WAR? j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Tom. Really, only terraformers is a good example of a game with both graphics and audio. while I think nielsbauer do some great games, essentially, they are stil static, and turn based in nature. Yes, there is a litle animation sequence when your ship shoots at the enemy making the enemy ship flash, and instead of the quickly displaying written signs which indicate health niels has had a window open for screen readers to read, but essentially the game is stil turn based, and really functions just like an online game in fact much of the interface in Core exiles reminds me distinctly of Smugglers. This isn't a cryticism at all, I'm much impressed with nielsbauers' stuff, however, it is considderably easier to have a blind player take more time gathering on screen information in a game which is turn based, than in a real time fast action game. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Actually sean, last crusade didn't have any graphics, accept in the map editer. if you ask me it was a litle idiotic of the developers to release a graphical builder to make levels for an audio game, but there's no accounting for taste I suppose. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: shaun everiss shau...@xtra.co.nz To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 8:02 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. thats a good idea. Unfortunately there have only been 3 companies that have actually done this. pininteractive with their teraformas game which i borrowed of a friend. my hidef card did not really like one of the rooms in the lower levels. it was in flash anyway. Then there is lastcrusade and the experimental games projects. then the blind eye which never worked that well. There are tads inform and hugo and maybe a couple languages with sound support in them. All in all though unless we can have sighted people in the games universe so to speak I don't think our track record is much over crappy. We have not had a real suffistacated game over teraformas and its not really developped anymore really. There was the game made by jafa which I know a few of us were due to go in. But since I have not been able to contact him I can only assume he is dead or off the net for some reason. At 02:35 a.m. 29/05/2010, you wrote: Hi list. I don't normally join in on these discussions, but I've been wondering. I hear people say that the blind gaming community is small, and there is only so much money to be made on blind games. What I want to know is, is there a reason a blind developer couldn't try to team up with sighted developers and make games that both sighted and blind can play? If it could be done, the blind developer might make more money, and might even educate people on what blind people really need and want. Not what the sighted think the blind need. Just my two cents, if I'm making any sense at all. - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:34 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Dark, Lol! My thoughts exactly. However, it really does come down to manpower and financial resources. For example, lets compare Shades of Doom to Doom 3. Can they compare? Hell no. Why? Well, for an audio game Shades of Doom is a pretty good game, is pretty close to Doom 1, but it took David Greenwood quite some time to put it together and release it. That is just trying to create something equal to the technology of 15 years ago. However, as I recall it took ID Software two or three years to produce Doom 3 with an entire team of software developers working on it full time. We can't reasonably expect our accessible game developers to compete with that kind of product unless we have the same kind of financial budget, same number of skilled developers etc. It just isn't going to happen in this life time bro. Smile. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list,
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Jim, Hahaha! Where are you getting these oxymorons, or are you just thinking them up? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Jim Kitchen Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 7:30 PM To: Yohandy Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Yohandy, You know, if I had millions and millions of dollars that I had made from my previous game titles, I would hire a team to write the background story of the game idea that I have. It might be something like roller coaster tycoon. Next I would hire a team of programmers and sound tech people to write the code and produce the game and sounds for the game. Of course since I had the money, people would apply for the job and do the job as presented to them from me , the project manager. I am thinking that this is how main stream games are produced. I do not think that it would work out so well if a bunch of people with the skills and artistic inspirations got together and tried to paint a picture together. I don't believe that we have enough skilled blind programmers and enough money to put up to just hire skilled people to do the programming etc to produce the same type of games that the money produces for sighted gamers. It to me is not the same as asking us who inspirer to make the games for the blind to all just get together and work together to produce games. TGIF and BFN Jim HOW IS IT POSSIBLE TO HAVE A CIVIL WAR? j...@kitchensinc.net http://www.kitchensinc.net (440) 286-6920 Chardon Ohio USA --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi, One comment--I do know he tried RailRacer, otherwise he's some kind of genious who knows how to create RailRacer tracks without testing them and they work. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 4:45 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. This is a fair answer and a fair offer. Rather than always complaining like, Why can't you guys create the games I want?, ask, How can I help to create the games I want? - Original Message - From: Thomas Ward thomasward1...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi Yohandy, Sigh...Weather you realise it or not, not every accessible game out there is just another space invaders clone like Troopenum or Aliens in the Outback. Have you ever tried Entombed, Rail Racer, 3D Velocity, or Time of Conflict? All of these are newer accessible games just coming onto the accessible games market and while they are not mainstream quality they are certainly better than games like Troopenum. I think you need to look at what is available instead of just assuming every single game is just another Space Invaders clone which they are not. However, you've convinced me we need to do something about this all the same. How about you put your wollet were your mouth is and do something about it for a change? Okay you say you want games like Street Fighter 4 if you agree to fit the bill for sounds, music, and pay me a yearly salary I'll go to work for you bright and early Monday morning. I'm absolutely serious. If you can give me a reasonable income, cover my medical, plus provide me the software and tools I need to create the next great Street Fighter 4 for the blind I'll do it, but I can't do it without money and an income to keep a roof over my head and cover living expenses. I'm not going to do it for free. You say the sounds in accessible games aren't good enough for you. How about purchasing the community a sound library of royalty free sounds from Sound Ideas. Last time I checked a cd costs $$300 to $500 a pop. You can easily put $5,000 into a reasonable sound library jjust to get started making games. If you purchase them for me I'll use them. If not then you'll just have to put up with what I can afford on my budget. Basicly, I don't want to shoot your ideas down, be a wet blanket, but you have to get realistic. Just because you want something to be a certain way doesn't mean it is realisticly feasable no matter how much you wish it to be otherwise. If you believe that is feasable all I'm saying is put your money were your mouth is and make it happen or stop complaining about it. If it truly means that much to you personally then start by purchasing sounds, learn to program, and make a contribution rather than blaming us for failing to reach your quality and standards. Smile. On 5/27/10, Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com wrote: ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
[Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
I couldn't agree more! -- Original Message -- From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Date: Wed, 26 May 2010 18:19:54 -0800 Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi, And sound...can you imagine playing the equivalent of Mortal Combat with recorded sounds? Otherwise, you'd spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi, Eight years spent on coding, and let's add on jobs etc to that. Shall we say...15 years? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:24 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi, And sound...can you imagine playing the equivalent of Mortal Combat with recorded sounds? Otherwise, you'd spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Exactly. I know of a lot of people, some right here on this list, who wouldn't be willing to wait that long, much less without hounding the developer so much that the dev became burned out as Thomas has with MOTA. And he's only been working on this project for about four years overall. We're a small enough market that realistically what you're suggesting is all but impossible. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly wouldn't be willing to spend eight to ten years on one project, and to be quite frank I'm not necessarily enough of a team player to be willing to work with other people, not even people I knew well. That's an excellent way to potentially ruin friendships, particularly if you can't agree with your partner(s) on which way the game should go.. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
And that's another valid point. Those cheapskates who can't be bothered to pay for a game are often only too happy to help others of their ilk obtain illegal copies of games, and unless we obtain copyrights for our products, which can be quite expensive, there's really nothing we can do about it, especially if the game is based on something that's also copyrighted. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Mauricio Almeida mauricio...@uol.com.br To: gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. alright mate. when i'm milionaire with my web business i'll shoot it down and program games you classify as good. for now, i will program what i have teh time to program. you have to consider that the blind public is not even one quarter of teh sighted public, and with the crackes out there noone would make real money out of it, which would be quite frustrating, since whomever the man developer is would have spent years in programming. mauricio -Mensagem original- De: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net Para: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Data: Quinta, 27 de Maio de 2010 21:12 Assunto: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Yes, and by the end of that time, Vista, windows 7 and whatever else we'd be coding for would be history. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: Hayden Presley hdpres...@hotmail.com To: 'Gamers Discussion list' gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:29 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi, Eight years spent on coding, and let's add on jobs etc to that. Shall we say...15 years? Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Hayden Presley Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:24 PM To: 'Gamers Discussion list' Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Hi, And sound...can you imagine playing the equivalent of Mortal Combat with recorded sounds? Otherwise, you'd spend thousands upon thousands of dollars. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Bryan Peterson Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
One of the best gaming experiences I have had is in playing Quake, talking to the other players using Teamtalk. The only way that could have been better is if Teamtalk could have positioned players' audio so you could hear where they were. Do you live near Sandusky Ohio, or are you planning a trip to Cedar Point? Receive a massage at very competitive rates--$40 per hour for a revitalizing therapeutic massage, $65 per house call--any time, anywhere (within reason.) Call 419-577-7973 I'll ease your pain and discomfort, loosen and mobilize your stiff joints, relax your achy muscles, and help you let go of stress, depression, and nervous anxiety... Ken Downey, LMT President of Blind Comfort! The Caring Without the Staring and DreamtechInteractive - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 9.0.819 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/2900 - Release Date: 05/27/10 14:30:00 --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yahondy, Sigh. We never said we wouldn't do it. That's not the issue. You are right, it is hard. You mentioned Street Fighter IV. How many devs do you think were working on that game? I grant you, I'd like to see some mainstream titles myself, but the way you are going about it, it sounds like a slap in the face to many devs of blind games. I don't want to start an argument, but you do have to look at it from the programmers' perspective. Best Regards, Hayden -Original Message- From: gamers-boun...@audyssey.org [mailto:gamers-boun...@audyssey.org] On Behalf Of Charles Rivard Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:12 PM To: Gamers Discussion list Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Lest all be doom and gloom, I'd like to point out two counterexamples, being Entombed and Time of Conflict. Both David Greenwood and Jason Allen have been supporting the heck out of their respective new titles. There was a period for Entombed where we had six releases within 7 days to try and fix a set of bugs introduced in a new feature. David is creating an on-line component for ToC. Greenwood's games are of a complexity that dwarfs most other offerings in the market, and Allen's reconception of the rogue-like games is addictive and has lots of replay value. Most important of all, both of these developers have created and nourished vibrant communities around their games. Participants are encouraged to submit ideas, bug reports and suggestions for the direction of the games in question, and we see those suggestions being implemented. As an example, I wrote a several-page initial review and wish list for ToC when I first got it. The most recent revision incorporates some of the more important items on my wish list and hints David has given lead me to suspect that more are coming, as well as lots of cool stuff I never thought of. I would hold these developers up as examples of what can be accomplished by the canonical one-man shop. Crowd-sourcing creative development, at least to the extent of welcoming and taking the best of user input solves one part of the problem. Good and constant communications with the user base makes users willing to be patient. And lest those of us on the extreme fringe of complexity-seeking get too complacent, remember that a lot of the sighted market is content with less complex games too. My wife, who is sighted would far rather play Bejeweled, or Peggle than any FPS (they make her sick) or complex combat sim. The casual gaming market is every bit as important as the hard core market. Does that mean devs may spend time on these games that they could be spending on something more hard core? Of course. And rightly so from a business perspective. I get the sense that many devs create the games they have wanted to play, rather than having a business plan that says, I'll corner this part of the market with this title and go after the granny-gamers with this one and get the hard-core teens with Blood and Iron XII. Let's be real, this isn't something you do for a living, it's a labor of love. Still, it's a business and needs to conducted as such by those who wish to charge for their efforts. Then again, I haven't found a free game that has held my interest for more than a few minutes, so I'll continue to selectively buy what I like, and if the developer is willing to listen to my thoughts, he or she will win my loyalty. I've bought everything GMA produced except the VIP mud client, which I just wouldn't use. I will continue this record as long as David keeps producing games. Christopher Bartlett --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
And what sighted developer works eight to ten years on one game, that market would fall apart if that were the case. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:20 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. That's exactly what I was getting at. I certainly wouldn't be willing to spend eight to ten years on one project, and to be quite frank I'm not necessarily enough of a team player to be willing to work with other people, not even people I knew well. That's an excellent way to potentially ruin friendships, particularly if you can't agree with your partner(s) on which way the game should go.. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:27 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. The one-man game developing company is not an excuse. It's a fact, so, while it is a shame, we've got to consider it. No ifs, ands, or buts. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:21 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Problem is there are a great number of people who wouldn't be willing to wait ten years for these games. I'm not saying we're not behind, because we are, but it's probably never going to happen. As has been pointed out endlessly, most developers are just single people, and even if you could find other programmers who used the same languages and whatnot, you'd also have to agree on creative matters as well, not to mention licensing. That's partly why Castle Quest was scrapped. It's not an excuse, it's cold hard fact. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: clement chou chou.clem...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Wednesday, May 26, 2010 8:19 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Here here. I second that notion. Also, I think sequels are iportant as well. a shades of dom 2, or a GMA tank Cmmander 2, something like that. There are so many games with the potential to have sequels. Also, I think bigger games need to start having cutseens. Games like GMA Tank Commander, while the radio transmitions are great, actual cutseens wouldn't be amiss either Voice actors might take a while to find, but I for one would be interested in taking that job. especially since the cutseens are simply recordings with voice and sound, no video. And the same games I brought up, with online features, would be great. I can only imagine playing shades of doom or tank commander with 6 other people in a full-fledged death match. Especially GTC. It would be great. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
so the heck would I. I've got ideas, but no programming knowledge. Lisa Hayes www.nutrimetics.com.au/lisahayes - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 12:12 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Any interest in learning the programming in order to help the cause? If I had the time, I would. - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 8:47 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. ok guys, I'm willing to hear your suggestions then. what do we do? just keep things the way they are and never have any advancement where audio games are concerned? don't shoot down my ideas, come up with some of your own. how will things be different in a few years? they wouldn't be. it'll still be a 1 man developer job. so because it's hard does it mean it should never happen? are most blind gamers destined to play space invaders clones forever with mediocre sound effects? see the frustrating thing is most people on here have nothing to compare the lack of great games to. Some of us here grew up playing mainstream games, so we know what's out there and what's possible, but many on here would be happy to play troopinam for years to come with no complaints and it's simply frustrating. I think some people here wouldn't care if we ever got good games or not because they're just satisfied with what they already have and that's really sad, not because the game is or isn't a good one, but because this level of resignation is what's holding us back. then again, perhaps gamers are to blame? next time you're considering spending your money on the newest shiniest iphone or blindy product, how about purchasing an actual console and check out what's truly out there gaming wise? then you guys can make your own decisions and determine if I'm write or not. if there's no interest for this out there, it'll never happen. If I had the money, I'd be at e3 every year and at every gaming convention out there trying to make a difference instead of spending it on iphones. - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 9:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Hi Yohandi, firstly, I will point out that many games actually do do the expantion bit your talking about. Entombed, rail racer, sound rts, che's card games topspeed, all have lots of expandable content, through user created stuff, --- in fact Ithink this is really going to take off when entombed's dungeon creator is released. Second, as regards online play, that is already being added to as many games in as efficient a way as possible, sound rts and toc already have this and as Phil said it's looking at being added to more games, however lso bare in mind there are people (myself included), who are more concerned about a complete single player experience than online interaction, so saying all games should have this doesn't take into account our taste. finally, the most major and complete thing to remember is resources. Capcom had a massive team of people working on Streetfighter Iv for four a pretty solid couple of years. For Streetfighter I don't know figures, but i do know the latest mortal combat titles have about 100-150 full time programmers working on the game, testing it, putting it through it's paces. Find 150 programmers who will work on an audio game for 2 years, --- and then you might well get the same result. For a fairer comparison it's more reasonable to compare audio games to independent graphical pc games developed with a similar amount of resources and by a similar number of people. One game for example which I play (not accessible unfortunately), is the game Hurrican. This is a very large exploration 2D platform shooter similar to Metroid or Mega man. it has many features, great sound and environments, and even a level creation tool which some people have used to make extra levels. However, while it's certainly as good as games produced 15 years ago on the Snes, and graphically probably equaling a ps1 game, can it equal games produced now? hell no! And how long did it take to develope? five! years! yes, five! years! for a game which is 10-15 years behind what is produced by companies like capcom. That is really the bottom line. Comparing audio games to games like streetfighter Iv, is like comparing a delivery boy with a bicicle to UPs, and asking why the delivery boy can't have that package in Hongkong tomorrow morning! Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
While I appreciate your frustration, I think your assessment that no developement is being done is, well just plane wrong. Even in the five years that I've been playing audio games, I've noticed a change, larger and more complex games, games with online competition, and games with user created content. As technology improves in developement, so the games will improve, just at a slower wrate than mainstream ones. For a truer comparison, try looking around at some of the independently produced pc games, look at the Smugglers series for instance, same number of devs and amount of resources. and, as for suggestions, well I do have several, but they're mostly being taken into considderation already. The first, is user created content. level editers, sound editers etc. while these are harder to produce, they don't half expand the game. For a look at what effect they can have look at Jim's golf game. Many games though, are now doing this extremely, entombed, Rail Racer, time of conflict sound rts etc. If for example shades of doom had an easily usable level creator which would let you set where the monsters appeared, and make new monsters and items for the game, well we'd probably see a good few expantions. The second thought I have on expantion, is randomness. the more monsters etc are just placed in one place, the less replay a game has. A brilliant example of this is Q9. A simple arcade style game, but you never know where the monsters will appear, thus making it very fresh to play each time, ditto with tom's game. Another suggestion I have is exploration (especially when combined with randomness as in entombed). The more area in a game you need to explore, the longer it'll take you to finish. A final thought is using the online play we have. Afterall, Toc will be far more interesting when it's possible to play against a number of humans than against the computer. This might not be super fast voice chat, but it does the job, and provides a varied playing experience, particularly in games like stratogy games where there is considderable variation in a players' possible actions. Luckily though, these are all trends which are actually being expanded upon anyway, and probably will continue to be in the future. Beware the grue! Dark. --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at http://www.mail-archive.com/gam...@audyssey.org. If you have any questions or concerns regarding the management of the list, please send E-mail to gamers-ow...@audyssey.org.
Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games.
Again though, this is why user tools to create stuff in games help, sinse you can do it without learning programming. Thus, while I personally have decided programming pluss a phd is a bad combination, I am looking forward to trying out the entombed Editer very much. Beware the grue! Dark. - Original Message - From: Bryan Peterson bpeterson2...@cableone.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Friday, May 28, 2010 3:18 AM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Exactly. I know of a lot of people, some right here on this list, who wouldn't be willing to wait that long, much less without hounding the developer so much that the dev became burned out as Thomas has with MOTA. And he's only been working on this project for about four years overall. We're a small enough market that realistically what you're suggesting is all but impossible. We are the Knights who say...Ni! - Original Message - From: Charles Rivard woofer...@sbcglobal.net To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:25 PM Subject: Re: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. Where would be the profit in a game that takes, for example, 8 years to produce? More importantly, would devs be willing to spend that long on one project? Would gamers be willing to wait that long for a game? - Original Message - From: Yohandy yohand...@gmail.com To: Gamers Discussion list gamers@audyssey.org Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 7:39 PM Subject: [Audyssey] a drastic change is needed for audio games. when it comes to audio games, something I find quite annoying is the fact that many games aren't supported after initial release. even if they are, it's usually a small update a few days after game comes out just to keep up the hype and keep people buying, then after that the game never gets any sort of expansion. I think this is hurting the audiogames market, and developers are losing potential customers. what you guys aren't realizing is that people are even willing to pay for these expansions. mainstream titles do it all the time. let's say a new mainstream FPS game comes out and new levels are added after the initial game release, the developer could charge $5 for those additional levels and those interested will purchase it. or offer the downloadable content free and sell even more copies of that particular game. people get bored of the same old stuff, especially if the game doesn't have much replay value. we need DLC, and I don't understand why this hasn't been done yet. and that's not even the only problem. I think it's about time developers start adding an online component to their titles to make games a more social experience. no offense to any developer on this list, but I'd much rather go online and play a few rounds of super street fighter IV or some rock band than play most accessible games. why? because I'm interacting with people, not playing the exact same offline mode over and over. even if street fighter didn't have online features it would have been much more replayable than any accessible game out there mostly due to the trial mode the game contains, which can keep you busy for months. in fact there are people who've yet to complete trial mode on street Fighter IV and the game's been out for over a year! can you guys make such claims about audio games? back to online features. even the few audiogames that have online playability, we actually have to communicate through text, when most mainstream games are using voice chat, and even video chat! Is it all that difficult to add voice chat to games? I'm no developer so I'm asking because I like to be informed on these things. This is why when people ask me if we'll ever catch up to the mainstream market, I tell them that it'll never happen. devs need to really start concentrating on what the gamers want. and please I don't want to hear the oh but audio games are only a 1 man operation excuse. Take 10 years to develop your game if it takes that long, or Find developers who use the same programming language you do, and get together and form a programming team. but give us something good. something that we can be proud of 15 years from now and say wow! this game completely revolutionized the audio game market! as it stands now, most of the audio games I've purchased I just beat once in about an hour or so and never play it again, and this is probably true for many people on here. something needs to change, and it's up to all of us, developers and gamers aliketo make it happen! --- Gamers mailing list __ Gamers@audyssey.org If you want to leave the list, send E-mail to gamers-unsubscr...@audyssey.org. You can make changes or update your subscription via the web, at http://audyssey.org/mailman/listinfo/gamers_audyssey.org. All messages are archived and can be searched and read at
