On 11/05/2010 03:11 PM, redforce wrote:
Indeed. Please file a bug-report at Ubuntu. We explicitly released a
fixed version (2.6.11) before the Ubuntu release. The Ubuntu maintainers
should do their users a favor and update to that release.
Seems that this has been reported:
On 10/31/2010 05:11 PM, geoffrey wrote:
I just installed gimp with Ubuntu 10.10. Simple problem. Any way I try to
print, the printer produces a blank sheet of paper. HPDeskJetPro prints any
other program's output. It seems that the package on Ubuntu gets the 2,6.10
with the cairo software
On Mon, 2010-11-01 at 01:11 +0100, geoffrey wrote:
I just installed gimp with Ubuntu 10.10. Simple problem. Any way I try
to print, the printer produces a blank sheet of paper. HPDeskJetPro
prints any other program's output. It seems that the package on Ubuntu
gets the 2,6.10
with the cairo
On Thursday 14 October 2010 18:09:18 ChadBJX wrote:
Chad,
Can you print _anything_ from Gimp?
If you can print a very tiny image, maybe it is a printer memory
problem.
Sorry, I can't help further. I don't have Vista and I am sitting
here happily emailing from Ubuntu. ;-)
I will
On 10/15/2010 09:30 AM, John Culleton wrote:
On Thursday 14 October 2010 18:09:18 ChadBJX wrote:
Chad,
Can you print _anything_ from Gimp?
If you can print a very tiny image, maybe it is a printer memory
problem.
Sorry, I can't help further. I don't have Vista and I am sitting
here
snip
I'm one of those people who's a hard core open source user and sniffs
disdainfully at any proprietary solution to achieve my means :) But I
try not to impose these irrational beliefs on anyone else, especially
on mailing lists and forums. I'd much rather saddle myself with a
crappy,
On Mon, Feb 22, 2010 at 3:40 AM, Norman Silverstone
nor...@littletank.org wrote:
I have had a perfectly good colour printer for some years but have
concluded that, for good results and peace of mind at a reasonable cost,
I send my photos to be commercially printed. I agree that there are
Using GIMP 2.6, running on Ubuntu Linux, v9.10. The printer is an HP
Photosmart C5180 on my home network. I have the hplip printing package
installed. I've chosen Custom Sizes from the page setup options, choosing
the C5180.
The HPLIP is the latest version available.
Dick
On Sat, Feb 20,
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:00 PM, Dick Smith dsmit...@gmail.com wrote:
Using GIMP 2.6, running on Ubuntu Linux, v9.10. The printer is an HP
Photosmart C5180 on my home network. I have the hplip printing package
installed. I've chosen Custom Sizes from the page setup options, choosing
the
Using GIMP 2.6, running on Ubuntu Linux, v9.10. The printer is an HP
Photosmart C5180 on my home network. I have the hplip printing package
installed. I've chosen Custom Sizes from the page setup options, choosing
the C5180.
The HPLIP is the latest version available.
I've never
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 3:33 PM, Norman Silverstone
nor...@littletank.org wrote:
Just a suggestion, have you tried using TurboPrint, a free trial is
available? It may work and is much cheaper than a new printer.
I'm one of those people who's a hard core open source user and sniffs
disdainfully
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Dick Smith dsmit...@gmail.com wrote:
However, if the $140 printer won't print on linux, then there is lttle to be
gained by purchasing one.
I always check for proper Linux support first. There are very few HP
printers that aren't perfectly supported under Linux.
On Sunday 21 February 2010, Frank Gore wrote:
On Sun, Feb 21, 2010 at 8:27 PM, Dick Smith dsmit...@gmail.com wrote:
However, if the $140 printer won't print on linux, then there is lttle to
be gained by purchasing one.
I always check for proper Linux support first. There are very few HP
2010/2/7 jon s. for...@gimpusers.com:
Hi all, and thanks in advance for your help. I am a newbie with GIMP, and
usually use it for light touch up of digital photos of artwork.
I am running windows xp on a nice dell optiplex. I believe the os is up to
date. Just upgrade to ..6.8. Gimp
On Sun, 7 Feb 2010 23:05:19 +0100 (CET), jon s. wrote:
I am running windows xp on a nice dell optiplex. I believe the os is
up to date. Just upgrade to ..6.8. Gimp works fine, except that I
cannot print! I open a line drawing, do file, print, and nothing
happens. There must be some
jon s.:
I, too, am using Windows XP (though not on a Dell), and upgraded to Gimp
2.6.8 after I posted my response. Printer is a Ricoh Aficio 610,
connected as a network printer through a router, printing directly using
the Windows network drivers supplied by Ricoh for the printer, and it
jon s.:
The information you included is insufficient for me to be of much help.
I am running windows xp on a nice dell optiplex. I believe the os is up to
date. Just upgrade to ..6.8. Gimp works fine, except that I cannot print! I
open a line drawing, do file, print, and nothing happens.
On Monday 28 December 2009, Akkana Peck wrote:
Gene Heskett writes:
So my question is: Where do I put the BR2140.ppd that cups uses so that
the gutenprint plug-in can also find it? The regular print dialog has
no knowledge of this printer, and nowhere near enough controls to be
usable.
After lots and lots of trying to print I had to spend some cash and buy
TurboPrint - problem solved.
Norman
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Gimp-user@lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU
https://lists.XCF.Berkeley.EDU/mailman/listinfo/gimp-user
Hi Norman,
I guess that it is possible your theory is correct and that this is the
motivation.
Since printing with Gimp on Vista does not work properly, it calls this
theory into question, however.
Regards,
Erik
Norman Silverstone wrote:
snip
Just imagine a novice Linux user. Imagine
I guess that it is possible your theory is correct and that this is the
motivation.
Since printing with Gimp on Vista does not work properly, it calls this
theory into question, however.
You have a point. However, my view has always been that, although it is
great that the bulk of software
On Friday 24 July 2009 12:40:42 am Erik Lotspeich wrote:
Hi,
I have OpenSUSE 11.1 and Gimp 2.6.2. I am having a serious
problem with printing that I cannot figure out.
For background, I've used Gimp since 1997 and I'm no novice to
Gimp, Linux, or Unix.
That being said, I found the
snip
Just imagine a novice Linux user. Imagine your mother-in-law who wants
to print a photo with Gimp. She will fail. That is my point. I think
that you all are missing the point that I'm making. Your mother-in-law
will be confused by Print and Print with Gutenprint. Nobody has to
On Fri, Jul 24, 2009 at 11:20 PM, Erik Lotspeiche...@lotspeich.org wrote:
The fact that the Gimp engineers haven't integrated these two printing
systems is unacceptable -- they should be ashamed. Gimp will never be
taken seriously until this printing nightmare is resolved. I am a
software
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi Chris,
I appreciate your feedback. Looking at the history of gutenprint only
solidifies my point which is:
Native Gimp printing = FAIL
Gutenprint (Gimp plug-in) = WIN
My distro is OpenSUSE 11.1 which is a popular, modern Linux distribution
On Saturday 25 July 2009, Erik Lotspeich wrote:
Hi Chris,
I appreciate your feedback. Looking at the history of gutenprint only
solidifies my point which is:
Native Gimp printing = FAIL
Gutenprint (Gimp plug-in) = WIN
My distro is OpenSUSE 11.1 which is a popular, modern Linux distribution
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi Gene,
Your point is well taken. I do not expect the Gimp people to keep on
top of printing at all.
But why not have Gutenprint be a pre-requisite to Gimp? Why deliver a
broken default printing system?
For the record, my distro does deliver the
On Friday 24 July 2009, Erik Lotspeich wrote:
Hi,
I have OpenSUSE 11.1 and Gimp 2.6.2. I am having a serious problem with
printing that I cannot figure out.
For background, I've used Gimp since 1997 and I'm no novice to Gimp,
Linux, or Unix.
That being said, I found the printing in Gimp
Hi Joao,
I very much appreciate your measured response to my rant! ;)
I installed the Gutenprint plugin and printing works exactly as I would
expect it to. Your suggestion really saved the day for me and I
appreciate it greatly!
For the record, I find it absurd that Gimp has two parallel
On Wed Feb 25 13:50:21 PST 2009 Sven Neumann wrote:
It would help to make some suggestions for the parameters that need to
be added.
Until we have changed this, you could work around the missing parameters
by having your script modify the files print-settings and
print-page-setup as found in
It appears that I was mistaken, and the script used a command that gimp does
not have:
file_print_gimp
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-user/2006-April/007923.html
I assumed(obviously incorrectly) that the name of the command had changed.
In this case, is this there a command that
Hi,
On Wed, 2009-02-25 at 07:03 -0800, Decimator Doseven wrote:
It appears that I was mistaken, and the script used a command that gimp does
not have:
file_print_gimp
http://lists.xcf.berkeley.edu/lists/gimp-user/2006-April/007923.html
I assumed(obviously incorrectly) that the name of
Hi,
On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 15:02 -0800, Decimator Doseven wrote:
It does not appear to. All it has is (file-print-gtk run-mode image),
which does not do what I need and does not match what I've seen
in the various(unfortunately non-working) scripts that I was able to find.
What does it not
Hi,
On Mon, 2009-02-23 at 14:20 -0800, Decimator Doseven wrote:
Could someone tell me the proper syntax for file-print-gtk?
The Prodecure Browser (as found in the GIMP Help menu) should tell you.
Sven
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Gimp-user mailing list
Another method is to leave the cartridge overnight in a sealed plastic
bag with a piece of wet cloth or similar inside. Of course it won't
work as fast as submerging the nozzle in water, but then you don't
risk flooding the cartridge either.
This is how the printer technician at my work does
On Tuesday 23 September 2008 19:11, Dotan Cohen wrote:
2008/9/23 Kevin Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it.
The simplest solution is to run multiple cleaning cycles to clear the
nozzles. I had an inkjet printer
2008/9/25 Rikard Johnels [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Spit is probably one of the worst cleaning solvents you can use...
The nozzles are so small that particles in your spit will clog them.
This is how the printer technician at my work does it:
Place the cartridge head down in a shallow bowl with clean
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 10:36:18 schrieb Dotan Cohen:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it. Of the
blue, yellow, red, and black cartridges, I want to only print from the
blue. I tried to configure a blue-255 colour and the rest 0, however
the printed
Dotan Cohen wrote:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it.
The simplest solution is to run multiple cleaning cycles to clear the nozzles.
I had an inkjet printer where multiple nozzles were clogged. It took about
three or four of the printers built-in cleaning cycles to
On Tuesday 23 September 2008 05:20:47 am Torsten Neuer wrote:
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 10:36:18 schrieb Dotan Cohen:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it.
Of the blue, yellow, red, and black cartridges, I want to only
print from the blue. I tried to
On Tue, 23 Sep 2008 11:26:28 -0400
John Culleton wrote:
On Tuesday 23 September 2008 05:20:47 am Torsten Neuer wrote:
Hello,
Am Dienstag, 23. September 2008 10:36:18 schrieb Dotan Cohen:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it.
Of the blue, yellow, red, and
2008/9/23 Kevin Cozens [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Dotan Cohen wrote:
My printer has a stuck blue nozzle and I am trying to clean it.
The simplest solution is to run multiple cleaning cycles to clear the nozzles.
I had an inkjet printer where multiple nozzles were clogged. It took about
three or four
2008/9/23 Don Koch [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
Cheaper printers are RBY, not CMYK. He never said he had an RGB
printer. (I don't think anyone even makes an RGB printer.) My HP printer,
for example, had a Red-Blue-Yellow cartridge and a black one. I do have
another printer that is CMYK.
I should
Hi,
to shed some more light on the issue of how preview works with the GIMP
Print plug-in based on GTK+ Print, here's an excerpt from another mail
on this subject:
We just hand-off printing (and previewing) to Gtk. Gtk then calls the
appropriate pdf viewer. WHat is the appropriate previewer
snip
I'm pretty sure the same thing is true of the latest Fedora package for
gimp 2.4.3. But one can get the gutenprint gimp plugin which does the
job quite well. I bet that is available for ubuntu also.
As far as I know, it always has for Ubuntu.
Norman
Hi,
On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 01:25 +0900, Choi, JiHui wrote:
1. in windows, gimp doesn't have print preview..
That's a problem of the GTK+ print system. The implementation on Windows
is lacking some functionality. I am sure the GTK+ developers would love
to get some help with that.
On Wed, 2008-01-23 at 19:00 +0100, Sven Neumann wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, 2008-01-24 at 01:25 +0900, Choi, JiHui wrote:
1. in windows, gimp doesn't have print preview..
That's a problem of the GTK+ print system. The implementation on Windows
is lacking some functionality. I am sure the GTK+
Hi,
On Sun, 2007-10-21 at 20:19 +0100, norman wrote:
I am using 2.3.18
Please update to a newer version then, before anything else. If you are
using Ubuntu 7.10, simply installing the gimp package will get you GIMP
2.4rc3.
About the Print dialog. This dialog is platform specific and almost
Hi,
one more thing that I forgot to say. Prior to GIMP 2.4 we basically
didn't have a Print dialog. We shipped with the plug-in that the
gimp-print (now gutenprint) project developed. On the Linux platform,
you can still get the Gutenprint plug-in for GIMP if you prefer that.
Sven
The printer I have is said to be capable of printing on a CD or DVD. I
wondered if it were possible to prepare and print images using Gimp and,
if so, how would one go about the task?
I use OpenOffice.org Draw to do that (and GIMP for any actual image work).
Draw lets you arrange
* norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [07-19-07 13:35]:
The printer I have is said to be capable of printing on a CD or DVD. I
wondered if it were possible to prepare and print images using Gimp and,
if so, how would one go about the task?
no problem preparing the image/s, as to printing, hard to tell.
* norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [07-19-07 13:35]:
The printer I have is said to be capable of printing on a CD or DVD. I
wondered if it were possible to prepare and print images using Gimp and,
if so, how would one go about the task?
no problem preparing the image/s, as to printing, hard to
On Thu, 2007-07-19 at 21:04 +0100, norman wrote:
* norman [EMAIL PROTECTED] [07-19-07 13:35]:
The printer I have is said to be capable of printing on a CD or DVD. I
wondered if it were possible to prepare and print images using Gimp and,
if so, how would one go about the task?
no
- Original Message -
From: norman [EMAIL PROTECTED]
The printer I have is said to be capable of printing on a CD or DVD. I
wondered if it were possible to prepare and print images using Gimp and,
if so, how would one go about the task?
I use OpenOffice.org Draw to do that (and GIMP
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Hi there,
I'm using gimp.app 2.2.11 too and printing works for me with a HP
ColorLaserJet 4500 DN and OS X 10.4.8
Greetings, lexA
Am 21.01.2007 um 20:18 schrieb Matthew Polashek:
Hi!
I can't seem to print from Gimp.app to my Xerox Phaser
On Sunday 24 September 2006 10:54, Matthew Polashek wrote:
I have been trying to figure out how to print to my xerox color laser
printer. Any suggestions?
Thanks!
Matt
In general Gimp is best used to create illos for documents/web
pages rather than the documents themselves. But you can save
Hi,
On Fri, 2006-09-29 at 09:20 +1000, Daniel Kasak wrote:
With the old gimp print dialog ( and with the help of a gimp plugin to
set up CD covers ), I've had great success in printing CD covers. After
a recent gimp update, the old print dialog has been replaced with the
new gtk+ one. I
Sven Neumann wrote:
ith an older Gimp
allows me to print this CD cover. Any ideas?
You can install gutenprint if that gives you better results.
I also have this installed.
You could
investigate the problem and file a bug report against GTK+. You can use
the stable GIMP that you
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:37:17 -0400
Jim Philips [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have some 3x5 templates in .png format that I downloaded. I want to
print them out in landscape format, because if I print them as portrait
my printer bracket won't come in tight enough to hold the card in
place. So, I
David Lee wrote:
On Mon, 17 Apr 2006 08:37:17 -0400 Jim Philips
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I have some 3x5 templates in .png format that I downloaded. I want
to print them out in landscape format, because if I print them as
portrait my printer bracket won't come in tight enough to hold the
card
Hi,
Am 09.03.2006 um 09:39 schrieb Matthew Polashek:
Hi!
Is there any way to get GIMP for OSX to print to the standard
printer I have set
up in OSX? I have a Xerox 6100N Color Laser that I'd love to use
with GIMP, but
I can't find a PPD for OSX.
Why would you want to find yourself a
I have a Xerox 6100 though and I havne't had the same success, though I did
install GIMP.app. What did you select as a printer when printing?
Matthew Polashek
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
www.tinysongs.com
On Thu, 9 Mar 2006 18:57 , Axel Wernicke [EMAIL PROTECTED] sent:
Hi,
Am 09.03.2006 um 09:39
Am 09.03.2006 um 09:57 schrieb Matthew Polashek:
I have a Xerox 6100 though and I havne't had the same success,
though I did
install GIMP.app. What did you select as a printer when printing?
Well, I get a pretty huge print dialog which contains a drop down
list where I just select the
Hi Paul,
Sorry you're not having much joy so far.
I don't know that I can offer any specific advice - I do remember
suffering a similar problem to yours at first which did get resolved,
perhaps by following the instructions in the manual religiously, but now
I don't recall how. I do find the
P.S. If like me you don't have any German, you'll need Babelfish
http://babelfish.altavista.com/
in order to understand the bug report form, but you can report in
English and the reply comes back in English as well
HTH
Doug
Doug wrote:
Hi Paul,
Sorry you're not having much joy so far.
I
Hi Doug,
I have been experimenting with TurboPrint and have not been very impressed
with the results. It is still better than the stock gimpprint, but my test
image has a noticeable red-cast. Can you give some more details on your
results with TurboPrint?
If it would give me
Hi,
John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
Or as my own father used to say Don't fight the problem. The
problem is that most printers expect or demand CMYK. Either you
produce artwork in CMYK model to start with or you prepare it in
RGB and then convert it---and hope.
Perhaps command
That is possible. You can already do that in GIMP 2.2, but I admit
that using the Softproof filter in 2.2 is somewhat tedious. This will
be improved in 2.4. It allows you to work in RGB but the screen (if
properly calibrated using a monitor profile) will show you what the
print will look
Hi,
John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
In 2.3.7 I don't see a softproof filter. Do I need 2.2.x. to use it?
You better just wait for 2.4 and a few weeks more to give the
gimp-docs team a chance to update the documentation.
Sven
___
Hi,
John R. Culleton [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
I am evaluating two products to use while waiting for Gimp to
adopt the CMYK color model, Scribus and Krita (part of Koffice).
Scribus is really a Quark replacement and Krita (inspired in part
by Gimp is still in an early stage. The Krita manual
Paul Waldo wrote:
Thanks for the reply, Doug. This looks like it may be the ticket. If it
works as advertised, $39 is *nothing*. After spending many tens of hours
trying to get wine to work for me, the purchase of Crossover office was a
godsend! I think this product may be in the same
Paul Waldo wrote:
Hi all,
I am evaluating gimp on linux as a replacement for Photoshop on Windows. I am
currently using Photoshop/Windows primarily for the color management
capabilities. I have tried printing from gimp to my Epson Stylus Photo 1280,
with horrible results--the colors are
On Monday 20 February 2006 07:38, Doug wrote:
Paul Waldo wrote:
Hi all,
I am evaluating gimp on linux as a replacement for Photoshop on Windows.
I am currently using Photoshop/Windows primarily for the color management
capabilities. I have tried printing from gimp to my Epson Stylus
I have tried printing from gimp to my
Epson Stylus Photo 1280, with horrible results--the colors are off by
a significant amount.
I also had rotton results:
I use SuSE 10
epson color stylus 3000
gimp 2.2.7
I forgot what driver (hsn't been installed in over a yr), but it was the
latest
Paul Waldo wrote:
Hi all,
I am evaluating gimp on linux as a replacement for Photoshop on Windows. I
am
currently using Photoshop/Windows primarily for the color management
capabilities. I have tried printing from gimp to my Epson Stylus Photo 1280,
with horrible results--the colors
On Sunday 19 February 2006 2:00 pm, Tom Williams wrote:
What version of Gimp-Print are you running:
http://gutenprint.sourceforge.net/index.php3
Also, are you printing through CUPS?
When I have ink in my printer, I can print just fine on my Epson Stylus
Photo 700.
Peace...
Tom
Hi Tom,
On Sunday 19 February 2006 1:04 pm, Paul Waldo wrote:
Hi all,
I am evaluating gimp on linux as a replacement for Photoshop on Windows. I
am currently using Photoshop/Windows primarily for the color management
capabilities. I have tried printing from gimp to my Epson Stylus Photo
1280, with
Tom Williams wrote:
Matt Gushee wrote:
Tom Williams wrote:
See if it contains some driver info that might be of help to you. Maybe
switching to a different driver might help with your printing
problem. There is also a forum there for Epson printers that might be
of help:
If I read the
While (advanced) CYMK capabilities is a current project in Gimp
development, the LINUXPRINTING site is valuable for the HP
designed/created print drivers, and I assume other print drivers. I have
an HP6122 (color duplex inkjet) and with the HP PPD file (driver) am now
able to get more control
On Thursday 19 January 2006 09:45 am, Orlando Figueiredo wrote:
Hello there
I am using GImp with Fedora Core 4. I have a printer installed trough
CUPS and everything is working perfectly except with Gimp printing
command. When I try to print something from Gimp the printer starts
loading and
Helen wrote:
Is anyone able to recommend the best (or a good) printer
for a Gimp user on a Linux (SuSE) system? I want good
quality prints, with good color. Cost is a factor, but
is not the most important factor. Gimp is the only
photo-editing program I use, but I don't have to use
Gimp for
Tomek Grzejszczyk wrote:
Hi,
I want to print an image. I have cups installed and I can do it writing:
lp image.jpg
But when I try to print this image from gimp (which gives me really
great flexibility to position and scale the image, and set printing
quality), I get no result. It is strange
Jouni Tapio Rinne wrote:
Tomek Grzejszczyk wrote:
Hi,
I want to print an image. I have cups installed and I can do it writing:
lp image.jpg
But when I try to print this image from gimp (which gives me really
great flexibility to position and scale the image, and set printing
quality), I get no
Hi!
And why the PostScript Level 2 output can't read with GV (or GS) ?
The output of latex document(and even if I print form OO.org into file,
with the ,,Generic Printer'' it can be read with gv and and naturaly
print to my EpsonC70|HP LaserJet 4L)
Here is the output of gs:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]:~$
On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 04:47:35PM -0200, Josenildo Marques wrote:
When I try to print with The Gimp I have to choose my printer as the
output. If I leave the output as PostScript Level 2, all it prints is
unreadable gibberish on many sheets of paper.
How can I solve this ?
Your printer can't
On Sun, 2003-12-21 at 17:07, Marco Wessel wrote:
On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 04:47:35PM -0200, Josenildo Marques wrote:
When I try to print with The Gimp I have to choose my printer as the
output. If I leave the output as PostScript Level 2, all it prints is
unreadable gibberish on many sheets
On Sun, Dec 21, 2003 at 08:16:47PM -0200, Josenildo Marques wrote:
Thanks, again, Marco.
It's an Epson Styllus Colour 580.
I am wondering if there is a way to save this setting so that I won't
need to do that every time I want to print something.
I'm fairly sure it can. I can't tell you
John Culleton wrote:-
If you make your virtual desktop bigger than your physical desktop
then you can slide around with the mouse without resizing or using
alt keys etc. Here are my settings in /etc/X11/XF86Config:
--
Thanks John
but I
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