No, it's not! When you ignore "us standards", you not only can build your
complete IT infrastructure with PicoLisp, but you also get access to the
complete, compact, well written, maintainable source code with it.
And if you really need security, you have a good chance to get a complete
security r
Today i learned something on IRC regarding hosting Picolisp:
[11:30] I found a mistake in (doc '+Joint)
> [11:30] oh
> [11:31] is the missing part: pos (+Ord)) ?
> [11:32] then parenthesis?
> [11:32] yes, something is missing
> [11:33] it depends how much we want to write
> [11:33] The +Dep
> 10 mars 2017 kl. 01:17 skrev :
>
> Thanks for your comments and insights, Jakob.
> I just want to shortly assure you that I really liked your emails and your
> participation.
Thanks.
> Sidenote:
> Before GitHub, sourceforge.net was the singular main hoster for FOSS
> sourcecode.
> They
[reply to beneroth regarding git-hosting so a bit off-topic for
picolisp, just to quickly say...]
On 10 March 2017 at 02:17, wrote:
> ..[snip]..
> GitHub:
> On 2017-03-01 GitHub introduced new Terms of Service (which you
> automatically accept by continueing to use their service)
> ..[snip]..
>
ilities are not ruled out completely or for future GitHub
service changes.
A minority (afaik) weights the risks so high that they chose not to use GitHub
anymore.
Me personally, I find it very bad how they introduced this ToS-change, and
secondly why should the move the legal risks to mostly privat
Thanks for your comments and insights, Jakob.
I just want to shortly assure you that I really liked your emails and your
participation.
I didn't answer/comment further due lack of time.
Because of recent events (2017-03-01) I want to come back to this part:
> Yes, but Google Code was no Github.
I agree here, there's been a few instances over the years where people have
talked about putting the source on Git (I can't believe it's been almost 10
years now), but in the end the only actual contributions have not amounted
to much more than a few changes to the header files to make things easie
Just a lurker passing by:
Personally I'm much less excited about things like pip or node.js packages.
While I get their appeal often times you end up with quite a nonses like
node.js left-pad issue of year or so ago. In my eyes it promotes a kinda of
"shatered into milion pieces" situation. I'm mu
Thanks Lindsay, Mansur, good hints. I take a look at alternate ways,
hopefully without Python, to Let's Encrypt.
♪♫ Alex
--
UNSUBSCRIBE: mailto:picolisp@software-lab.de?subject=Unsubscribe
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 08:25:21AM -0600, Erik Gustafson wrote:
> and also javascript (json, frameworks, ...)
>
> Now we're talking! I think PicoLisp would pair nicely with some of the
> popular libraries and frameworks. Joe built
> https://github.com/joebo/pil-mithril-scaffold. A similar project
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 08:34:20AM -0600, Erik Gustafson wrote:
> > picolisp.com server is currently a mix of Wheezy, Jessie and Stretch, and
> > whatever I tried to get the certbot running resulted in a storm of Python
> > package mismatch error messages. No way .. I gave up, and decided to wait
>
Hi all!
About certbot:
See also other tools:
https://www.metachris.com/2015/12/comparison-of-10-acme-lets-encrypt-clients/
I've seen acmetool in action (written in Golang, so it requires no
dependencies).
I see there is a tool, written even in Bash
Best regards,
Mansur
--skipped--
>> And let's
Hi Alex,
I've been using LetsEncrypt.
This page https://gethttpsforfree.com clearly documents the steps to get a
certificate manually.
I ended up writing an automated javascript (nodejs) version of the steps on
that page that works for my purposes but is essentially just 'get it done'
code.
It
Hi Alex,
> 'Learn PicoLisp the Hard Way'
>
> I totally agree. This would be a great project, I'm ready to join.
> Same for Stack Overflow support.
>
Great! I'll reach out to Zed and confirm that this is still kosher.
> Yes, yes, I know ;) In fact, it is on my todo list since half a year.
>
> I
Hi Andrés,
> I think it's a terrific idea and I'm volunteer to work on it
>
Great, thanks!
> I also think it's a great idea since I think picolisp has a strong
> strength in web developing but just because it's 2017 I feel the effort
> must be put in integrating picolisp with web (W3C) technol
And I would be interested in working on a package or module system similar to
"pip" for Python.
I must confess that most discussions about namespaces etc on this list is way
over my head... however could I be on the right track if I were to assume that
using "local" in such modules would be a g
Hi Erik,
thanks for the long post!
Just in short:
> 'Learn PicoLisp the Hard Way'
I totally agree. This would be a great project, I'm ready to join.
Same for Stack Overflow support.
> And let's make sure said landing page is served over HTTPS. It's 2017.
Yes, yes, I know ;) In fact, it is on
On Fri, Feb 24, 2017 at 1:14 AM, Erik Gustafson
wrote:
>
>
> 'Learn PicoLisp the Hard Way'
>
> What do you think?
>
I think it's a terrific idea and I'm volunteer to work on it
>
>
> Let's build picolisp.com from scratch. Still in written in PicoLisp, duh!
> Make it a simple, beautiful, moder
ld be wise to keep the
process as frictionless as possible for him. No need to fix what isn't
broken.
This conversation seems to come up every year. We all spend a while
rehashing the same arguments, and nothing changes.
Now, I agree that there is a problem with the future of PicoLisp. But i
T
Am 23.02.2017 22:52 schrieb "Lindsay John Lawrence" <
lawrence.lindsayj...@gmail.com>:
> I am relatively new to picolisp, with limited knowledge of its development
> history... but I'll politely disagree with some suggestions here regarding
> making the core more 'popular' and open to 'collabora
I am relatively new to picolisp, with limited knowledge of its development
history... but I'll politely disagree with some suggestions here regarding
making the core more 'popular' and open to 'collaborative' development.
Bandwagon collaboration may in all likelihood dull the scapel and result in
reason it is good you outlined
your workflow so clearly:
> I live on incremental snapshots [...] has the environment from that
> moment (not only source files explicitly checked in [...] Forcing my
> working style to the limitations of a repo would be a drawback.
..so anyone who
There is a tool called metastore meant specifically to use with vcs hooks
to save and restore file metadata.
https://github.com/przemoc/metastore
-Michel
On Feb 23, 2017 9:52 AM, "Alexander Burger" wrote:
> Hi Jakob, Rowan,
>
> thanks for the good hints!
>
> > "alea iacta est". However - just
On 2017-02-23 18:45, Alexander Burger wrote:
> I won't use such a repo based system here. Period.
Ok, then we have status quo, or if someone steps up and becomes what
Alan Cox for many years was to the Linus and the Linux kernel. Basically
a maintainer, merging between distributions (users) an
Hi Jakob, Rowan,
thanks for the good hints!
> "alea iacta est". However - just in case you are not already aware -
> since version 2.2.2 git now only updates modification times on
> *changed* files during checkout (see
> https://github.com/git/git/commit/c5326bd62b7e168ba1339dacb7ee812d0fe98c7c),
[Sorry this is a bit long, I tried to make each point as concise as
possible without missing the point. Also, I know some of the git-usage
details below are well-known already but I include them for context,
and for whoever reads this and is less familiar with git]
On 23 February 2017 at 08:55, Al
https://medium.com/@sitapati/the-impact-github-is-having-on-your-software-career-right-now-6ce536ec0b50#.krwczgbrq
> 23 feb. 2017 kl. 07:55 skrev Alexander Burger :
>
> Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!! I agree with most of what you
> said.
>
> However, we are mixing up three diff
Thanks to all who contributed to this thread!! I agree with most of what you
said.
However, we are mixing up three different, independent issues:
1. My initial post was about political aspects: Ubuntu does not want to build
the binary with position-dependent coding (include the -no-pie flag),
Whether you agree or not, please read Jakob's post. It's a good read and puts
forth many good questions and observations.
I think a lot of us are concerned about the future of PicoLisp.
I think it may be the Holy Grail, but I'm not sure ;-)
On Tue, Feb 21, 2017 at 09:12:29
On 2017-02-21 20:18, andr...@itship.ch wrote:
>
> Online repositories like https://github.com/taij33n/picolisp and
> https://bitbucket.org/mmamkin/picolisp are not mere personal forks, but
> up to date clones of the official release at
> http://software-lab.de/picoLisp.tgz
> Both taij33n and mm
2017 14:26:53 +0100
Subject: Re: Future of PicoLisp?
Hi Petr
Many thanks for your participation and outside view.
Such comments are very valuable to us, as those topics are hard to see from the
inside.
I believe those feelings are triggered by mainly two source factors:
A) presentation of picolisp information
B) the (rather unusual) state of the p
rol
> > is essential for any non-trivial project, the lack of it is surprising.
> > Also there's no public bug tracker. Instead I have to subscribe to this
> > list so it is hard to track what happened to issues.
> >
> > That said removing some friction for outsiders wo
Well, of course, you guys are free to do want you want to try and please
whomever you want. I'm just an actual user of picolisp. Whenever I find
that a project is on Github, I find the url for cloning the repository,
and then never use any of the project site features ever again (issue
tracker, etc
> On 02/20/2017 09:19 AM, Jakob Eriksson wrote:
> > I would love for the public repo to be on github!
I would love for it to be on some kind of public git repo too. I'm
mostly indifferent whether it's github/bitbucket/sourceforge/whatever,
but would just love to be able to pull/branch/rebase for q
On 2017-02-20 19:46, Christopher Howard wrote:
> The only tradeoffs with savannah nongnu is it sometimes takes them a few
> weeks to approve your project hosting, and they require you to put
> licensing information on each code file (a really good idea anyway).
>
No. That is like saying that t
essential for any non-trivial project, the lack of it is surprising.
>> Also there's no public bug tracker. Instead I have to subscribe to this
>> list so it is hard to track what happened to issues.
>>
>> That said removing some friction for outsiders would help to keep
pened to issues.
>
> That said removing some friction for outsiders would help to keep things
> running.
>
>
> 2017-02-03 8:47 GMT+01:00 Alexander Burger <mailto:a...@software-lab.de>>:
>
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not s
I have to subscribe to this
list so it is hard to track what happened to issues.
That said removing some friction for outsiders would help to keep things
running.
2017-02-03 8:47 GMT+01:00 Alexander Burger :
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it can
How convenient then that compiling PL is trivial, it's probably the easiest
and most hassle free thing I've ever had to compile from source.
On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 8:47 AM, Alexander Burger
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it
Hi Alex
This is not helpful. I want to define registers *globally", so that values,
arguments and return values can be passed between functions. All functions
get
arguments in 1, 2, or more registers, and *return* values (not just a single
value!) in 1, 2 or more registers, plus direct condition c
Hi Alex
>No, I want a *generic way* to call existing external libraries, e.g.
Powerbasic won't do what (native... does because it doesn't do variadic
arguments like lisp or even c...
Here's an example .
BTW Important words are LoadLibrary GetProcAddress Call DWORD FreeLibrary
and recently
Re the carry flag...you can get at that :)
On 4 February 2017 at 20:24, dean wrote:
> Hi Alex
>
> With stack control I mean that you can do unlimited 'push'es and 'pop's
> to/from
> the stack inside a function, and build arbitrary structures this way on the
> stack. You can add, subtract, increm
Hi Alex
With stack control I mean that you can do unlimited 'push'es and 'pop's
to/from
the stack inside a function, and build arbitrary structures this way on the
stack. You can add, subtract, increment and decrement the stack pointer
arbitrarily, and switch between different stacks by assigning
Hi Alex...I see,
Sorry for the delay...I've spent most of the day trying to get a crashy pc
to run windows and Powerbasic to do this but have done itI did need to
use a Fastproc which creates no stack frame and is a much leaner and meaner
version of a sub/function,
#COMPILE EXE
'#DIM ALL
I also run PicoLisp out of a TinyCore Linux 'VirtualBox' image...
This turned out to be the best route for me to get the performance and
features of picolisp I wanted on microsoft windows hosts.
TinyCore64 + vboxsf (to access host drives) + picolisp is a great combo in
< 50Mb
Exporting that as an
> Now as far as trying PicoLisp goes, could we make a little app like
> http://www.tryclj.com?
>
Already done in ideone.com
Hi list,
Sounds like it's time to update the 'apt-get yourself some PicoLisp'
section on the wiki, as this is no longer the best route for those new to
the language.
To confirm, the best options seem to be:
- pil64 for Android
- Ersatz for Windows
- Docker Image (Packaged PL + Tiny Core)
- Build
https://www.amazon.com/Universal-Assembly-Language-Robert-Fitz/dp/0830627308
http://hackaday.com/2015/08/06/hacking-a-universal-assembler/
http://linuxfinances.info/info/assembler.html
On Sat, Feb 4, 2017 at 4:55 AM, Alexander Burger
wrote:
> Hi Dean,
>
> > re multiple entry points...assuming t
Hi Dean,
> re multiple entry points...assuming that means setjmp and longjmp which
> save and preserve those registers above (albeit the 16 bit ones SP & BP as
Nono, setjmp/longjmp correspond to catch/throw in Lisp. This is something
completely different, it jumps *up* the call history to an encl
e's anything we can do, let us know.
>>>
>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Burger
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Dean,
>>>>
>>>> > Assuming that Wine packages are more numerous than Picolisps...you
>>>>
#x27;t
>>>> have tried it if it had not been available as a package from ubuntu.
>>>>
>>>> As Dean said, if there's anything we can do, let us know.
>>>>
>>>> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 10:31 AM, Alexander Burger
>>>> wrote:
&g
Hi Dean,
> Re multiple entry points are we talking setjmp, longjmp and saving/restoring
> ebx esi edi bp sp & pc? I'm looking at this along with stack control.
No, a multiple entry point would be (in C for demonstration):
void foo(void) {
doThis();
bar:
doThat();
}
and then
e more numerous than Picolisps...you
>> could do
>> > a native Windows version in Powerbasic for Wine. Not only would this up
>>
>> Well, but then we can go as well with ErsatzLisp, the Java version of
>> PicoLisp.
>>
>> A full PicoLisp doesn't yet
than Picolisps...you
>>> could do
>>> > a native Windows version in Powerbasic for Wine. Not only would this up
>>>
>>> Well, but then we can go as well with ErsatzLisp, the Java version of
>>> PicoLisp.
>>>
>>> A full PicoLisp doesn't
I never use packages; only build from sources. Just one more data point
for you, Alex. ;)
> a native Windows version in Powerbasic for Wine. Not only would this up
>>
>> Well, but then we can go as well with ErsatzLisp, the Java version of
>> PicoLisp.
>>
>> A full PicoLisp doesn't yet run on Windows, as PicoLisp needs a POSIX
>> runtime
>&
hen we can go as well with ErsatzLisp, the Java version of
> PicoLisp.
>
> A full PicoLisp doesn't yet run on Windows, as PicoLisp needs a POSIX
> runtime
> environment. Might be possible in the future with Joe's midipix port.
>
>
> > I smiled when I saw your reasons f
Windows, as PicoLisp needs a POSIX runtime
environment. Might be possible in the future with Joe's midipix port.
> I smiled when I saw your reasons for moving from C to asm because
> Powerbasic does ALIGN etc in it's stride without needing to drop down to
> it's industrial streng
The above addresses only your pil32 problem. I had no idea re pil64 on
Android so glad you sorted it :)
On 3 February 2017 at 13:06, dean wrote:
> >the future of PicoLisp is dark.
> That sounds about right...I run openbsd and they've just made v6.0
> Linux- incompatible becaus
>the future of PicoLisp is dark.
That sounds about right...I run openbsd and they've just made v6.0
Linux- incompatible because they don't like the way it's going.
Pil64 compiles fine on the latest openbsd BTW.
Assuming that Wine packages are more numerous than Picolisps...you
Hi all,
thanks for your kind words!
Meanwhile it seems that the issue is solved, at least for pil64 on Android :)
For pil32 under Clang there is probably no way in the long term.
♪♫ Alex
--
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Android a few months ago (in Termux) without
issue. I'll have to try it again there.
Keep the light on :)
/Lindsay
On Thu, Feb 2, 2017 at 11:47 PM, Alexander Burger
wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it can survive in packaged
> di
?
Simply something easy for people who are not yet quite comfortable with
compiling...
--- Sent from mobile phone
On Feb 3, 2017 08:57, "Alexander Burger" wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it can survive in packaged
> distribution.
&g
"suficiently small" to be considered to be made up of mostly motivated
users.
Or you can provide docker images /s :).
On Fri, Feb 03, 2017 at 08:47:22AM +0100, Alexander Burger wrote:
> Hi all,
>
> the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it can survive in packaged
>
Hi all,
the future of PicoLisp is dark. I'm not sure if it can survive in packaged
distribution.
Ubuntu doesn't support it any more, probably due to the PIE (position
independent executable) on x86-64.
And at least on Android they seem to demand switching to Clang. The 32-bit
v
This was interesting! Just saw pixielang on HN.
> 17 jan. 2017 kl. 22:28 skrev Mike Pechkin :
>
> Author of http://pixielang.org/ in the city.
> Welcome to community
>
>> On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Timothy Baldridge
>> wrote:
>> > Check link in archive:
>> >https://web.archive.org/web/20
Author of http://pixielang.org/ in the city.
Welcome to community
On Tue, Jan 17, 2017 at 7:10 PM, Timothy Baldridge
wrote:
> > Check link in archive:
> >https://web.archive.org/web/20150308140349/http://
> kazimirmajorinc.com/Documents/The-speed-of-eval-in-some-
> Lisp-implementations/index.htm
Hi Mike,
> Check link in archive:
> https://web.archive.org/web/20150308140349/http://kazimirmajorinc.com/Documents/The-speed-of-eval-in-some-Lisp-implementations/index.html
>
> Lets update PicoLisp (17.1.7) times and compare with other dialects.
> Demo code for time3 by @taij33n:
> (bench
>(
> Check link in archive:
>
https://web.archive.org/web/20150308140349/http://kazimirmajorinc.com/Documents/The-speed-of-eval-in-some-Lisp-implementations/index.html
As a Clojure programmer, I find that Clojure code rather...gross. Of course
it's slow, Clojure is optimized completely differently fr
hi,
Check link in archive:
https://web.archive.org/web/20150308140349/http://kazimirmajorinc.com/Documents/The-speed-of-eval-in-some-Lisp-implementations/index.html
Lets update PicoLisp (17.1.7) times and compare with other dialects.
Demo code for time3 by @taij33n:
(bench
(let N 100
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