Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[MFPA]

Hi


On Sunday 10 May 2020 at 2:51:30 PM, in
, Andrew Savchenko wrote:-


> groups.io:
> - "your own domain" is a $200/month option.

I would think most people with a mailing list at groups.io would use 
the free options, similar to hosting a group at yahoo but they just 
seem to work better.


-- 
Best regards

MFPA  

Triathlons are good exercise, assuming you�ve made a series of bad life 
decisions that result in you being hunted by an amphibious Ronald McDonald.

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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Marck,

On Sun, 10 May 2020 09:52:20 +0100 GMT (10-May-20, 15:52 +0700 GMT),
Marck Pearlstone wrote:

AS>> Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

AS>> * Increase size limits for attachments.

> TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.

> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

Let's try this.

AS>> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.

> I  will  take  back  control  (where  have  I  heard  that before?) of
> maintenance for this number.

Thank you!

AS>> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

> That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
> test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
> version as end users.

I totally agree. Let's leave the lists separate.

AS>> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
AS>> * etc.

> That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
> have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
> dated.

It's a lot of work, and I believe Ritlabs can outsource it if tyhey
don't have the manpower. I do think it would help them increase sales,
so that will be money well spent for them. So, we can put it on the
wishlist.

Just MHO.

--


Cheers,
Thomas.

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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Gunivortus Goos]

Hello Maggie,

> When I look around and see everyone doing mail (poorly) on their
> iThings, I do wonder if we aren't all dinosaurs because we write
> in full sentences with a proper email program.

Yes, for me it is also long ago when I started with The Bat!
Actually, it is so long ago, I really don't remember anymore
which was my first version.
Still, being over 70, I don't really feel like a dinosaur. :-D
However, both on PC, notebook, tablet and phone I still try to write
full sentences instead of using those 'silly' abbreviations like yw,
tx, etc. Mmm... thinking that over, I might be a dinosaur after all.

-- 
Kind regards,
Gunivortus

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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Maggie Meister]

Hi Marck,

On Sunday, May 10, 2020 at 4:52:20 AM you wrote:

MP> ... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
MP> these  lists.T

Thank you for everything, Marck - even the trouts. Looking back,
I can't believe it's more than 20 years, While it doesn't feel
like yesterday, I do remember version 1.3 I think it was,
somewhere in the 1990s.TB! is as fresh as it ever was, and the
list, while not as busy, has continued as orderly and polite.
When I look around and see everyone doing mail (poorly) on their
iThings, I do wonder if we aren't all dinosaurs because we write
in full sentences with a proper email program. Sorry for OT, but
not.


-- 

Best Regards,
Maggie  http://www.OurCabinOnTheCreek.com 


The only difference between fiction and real life is that fiction
has to make sense.


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Re[2]: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello MFPA,

Sunday, May 10, 2020, 9:49:05 PM, you wrote:

> Would that lead to more help for ordinary users' TB! issues? Or would
> their messages simply get lost among all the beta testers' messages?
> It would certainly be massively increased traffic compared to the
> current TBUDL, and most TBBETA traffic is likely not relevant to the
> needs of most current TBUDL users.

Fair point. I was looking at this from the viewpoint of current traffic
levels which are rather low.

> Why do they need their own domain?

They don't _need_ own domain, this is from the "improvement" category.

> They are perfectly fine where Marck currently hosts them at
> silverstones.com.

What if Marck is being hit by the car and server lease is not renewed?
Same goes for domain name, etc.

> And many mailing lists are perfectly fine at one of the mailing list
> hosts such as groups.io, etc.

groups.io:
- "your own domain" is a $200/month option.

Next?

> Silverstones.com does have HTTPS, with a self-signed certificate.

Which defies its purpose... How about LetsEncrypt that is free and easy
to deploy?

> I thought that had been done a few years back at something called The 
> Bat User Documentation Project (TBUDP) but I can't find a link at the 
> moment.

Good examples:
- Claws: https://www.claws-mail.org/faq/index.php/Main_Page
- Thunderbird: https://support.mozilla.org/en-US/products/thunderbird
   

-- 
Regards,
A



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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[MFPA]

Hi


On Sunday 10 May 2020 at 3:06:11 AM, in
, Andrew Savchenko wrote:-


> * Increase size limits for attachments.

Sounds sensible.


> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version"
> footer.

I would vote to keep a footer informing of the current version and 
linking to info about the other TB* mailing lists. I think the FAQ 
linked from that info page has not been updated since I first started 
using TB! over 15 years ago.


> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

Would that lead to more help for ordinary users' TB! issues? Or would
their messages simply get lost among all the beta testers' messages?
It would certainly be massively increased traffic compared to the
current TBUDL, and most TBBETA traffic is likely not relevant to the
needs of most current TBUDL users.


> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.

Why do they need their own domain? They are perfectly fine where Marck
currently hosts them at silverstones.com. And many mailing lists are
perfectly fine at one of the mailing list hosts such as groups.io, 
etc.


> * Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.

Silverstones.com does have HTTPS, with a self-signed certificate.


> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.

I thought that had been done a few years back at something called The 
Bat User Documentation Project (TBUDP) but I can't find a link at the 
moment.


-- 
Best regards

MFPA  <mailto:2017-r3sgs86x8e-lists-gro...@riseup.net>

A woman's mind is cleaner than a man's: She changes it more often.

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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 10 May 2020 at 10:18 MAU wrote and made these points

>> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

M> I can agree to that,

Done. Now to test attaching a small image...

To avoid extra confusion I will deliberately leave this post unsigned.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[MAU]

Hello Marck,

> I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

I can agree to that,

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (Zarzalejo (Madrid)- Spain)
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Re: Future of TB* mailing lists

[Marck Pearlstone]

On 10 May 2020 at 03:06 Andrew Savchenko wrote and made these points

AS> It is 2020 out there and TB mailing lists seem to be a little outdated.

AS> Screenshots being stripped from the messages unless it all fits in 25Kb,

In the case of TBUDL, this seems to be happening regardless of size. I
have  looked  but  the  settings don't specify to do that. The hosting
server  has  shifted twice since we started to use the current rack. I
am not necessarily confident that the settings have ported correctly.

AS> famous "Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information" footer
AS> attached to all messages... Perhaps it is time for a maintenance?

This  footer  used to be maintained by admins every time a new release
came  from RITlabs, often with a slight lag. Max asked to control this
automatically  and  this was being done for a while. Then they stopped
updating  it.  I guess it's down to me again. (I am the sole admin and
mod these days, everyone else having resigned from the list). Max took
it over because I was updating it when the MSI was released to TBBETA,
not  in  new the loop otherwise as to when a particular version became
the current release.

AS> Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

AS> * Increase size limits for attachments.

TBBETA has a 75kb limit and TBUDL 25kb.

I suggest 150 for TBBETA and 100 for TBUDL. Thoughts?

AS> * Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.

I  will  take  back  control  (where  have  I  heard  that before?) of
maintenance for this number.

AS> * Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.

That's  a  very large "NO". There are 2 distinct audiences - those who
test  new  features  and  those who want help with the current release
version as end users.

AS> * Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.

I don't know what this means...

AS> * Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.

I  enabled  HTTPS  back in January. If anybody else wants to take this
over from me, go ahead - I will redirect.

AS> * Ensure lists historical data is available and easily exportable.

... we have done this multiple times in the 20+ years that we have run
these  lists.  The last massive move was to GMANE. They collapsed. Any
suggestions  as  to  where  we  should try next (and have our archives
dumped into the void when they go down too)?

AS> * Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
AS> * etc.

That's  something  I did very enthusiastically back at the start. They
have  not  been  maintained  and  over  the years have become somewhat
dated.

AS> Thoughts?

... given.

-- 
Cheers -- Marck D Pearlstone -- List moderator and fellow end user
TB! v9.1.18.3 (BETA) on Windows 10.0.18362 

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Future of TB* mailing lists

[Andrew Savchenko]

Hello All,

It is 2020 out there and TB mailing lists seem to be a little outdated.

Screenshots being stripped from the messages unless it all fits in 25Kb,
famous "Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information" footer
attached to all messages... Perhaps it is time for a maintenance?

Things that come to mind, in no particular order:

* Increase size limits for attachments.
* Remove or, at very least, update "current version" footer.
* Consider merging TDUDL/TBBETA into one.
* Move mailing lists homepage to a separate domain.
* Modernise lists website, enable HTTPs.
* Ensure lists historical data is available and easily exportable.
* Collate available TheBat! documentation / FAQs / Tips.
* etc.

Thoughts?

-- 
Cheers,
A



Current version is 8.0.18 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Doug Weller]

Hello,

  I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying
  to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender.
  I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the
  folder, but it didn't have an affect.

  I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat!
  Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option.

  However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it.

  Sorry for what must have been asked and answered before, but I have
  spent some time trying to figure it out but gave up. :-)

  Doug
  

-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk
Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Doug,

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:58:32 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 9:58 +0200, where I
live), you wrote:

DW   I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying
DW   to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender.
DW   I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the
DW   folder, but it didn't have an affect.

That wouldn't influence the address your replies are beingsent to, but
that changes the address that answers to your messages are being sent
to. I don't know whether that was what you intended

When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several
options:
1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go
   for 'Reply to this address'
2) Use CtrlShiftF5 or via the menu Message-Reply to All in
   order to reply to the message, that way the message both gets sent
   to the original poster and the list. This might cause the OP to
   answer you off list, but you can't get everything.
3) Create a folder reply template that sets the To-address to the
   list. NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to
   reply off list (with a personal message) you can be very
   embarrassed or even financially duped (depending on the message) by
   sending a message to the list without intending to do so. Don't
   think that this won't happen to you, it will, it happens to
   everybody with folder templates hardcoding the intended recipient.
4) Even though I warned against it. Create a folder forward template
   that acts like a reply template with the list address hardcoded,
   use the %ModifyOnce macro to ensure that you can manually edit the
   To: header in case of a real forward.
5) Use a third party tool (a pop3 proxy ore a mail server) that's able
   to insert headers. Use it to insert Reply-To headers in those list
   messages that don't have one, thus causing TB to automatically send
   replies to the address indicated by the Reply-To header. You'd need
   to take care that your tool doesn't alter Reply-To headers already
   present, because the OP might prefer off list replies.
6) Use a filter that saves your list messages to a file by means of a
   template like this:
   | Reply-To: list-address
   | %Headers
   |
   | %Text
   Furthermore the filter should delete the original message and run
   TB as an external program with the /Import parameter to import the
   message into TB's message base. (Preferably to the folder you'd
   like to save those list messages, as imported messages aren't
   filtered anymore.)
   Note that this might cause duplicate Reply-To: headers in the list
   messages and I don't know how TB reacts to that, as there should
   only be one.

I'd go for the first option.

DW   I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat!
DW   Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option.
DW   However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it.

Unless I'm mistaken by your question, this has nothing to do with what
you intended, but you can find it at:
  Account - Properties - Templates - Reply - somewhere below

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies 
or rabbits.



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Doug Weller]

Hi Roelof,


Saturday, April 10, 2004, 9:41:54 AM, you wrote:

 Hallo Doug,

 On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 08:58:32 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 9:58 +0200, where I
 live), you wrote:

DW   I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying
DW   to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender.
DW   I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the
DW   folder, but it didn't have an affect.

 That wouldn't influence the address your replies are beingsent to, but
 that changes the address that answers to your messages are being sent
 to. I don't know whether that was what you intended

Nope, I see what you mean now.

 When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several
 options:
 1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go
for 'Reply to this address'

Trouble is, I forget to do it!  When I remember, I do that.

 2) Use CtrlShiftF5 or via the menu Message-Reply to All in
order to reply to the message, that way the message both gets sent
to the original poster and the list. This might cause the OP to
answer you off list, but you can't get everything.

True, not a bad solution but I know I don't like getting 2 replies.

 3) Create a folder reply template that sets the To-address to the
list. NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to
reply off list (with a personal message) you can be very
embarrassed or even financially duped (depending on the message) by
sending a message to the list without intending to do so. Don't
think that this won't happen to you, it will, it happens to
everybody with folder templates hardcoding the intended recipient.

I think I can live with this on the mailing lists I have in mind.
Knowing what what I've done is wrong and why, thanks to your response,
I've just now put this in the reply template:
%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of
the sender's address?

[SNIP]

DW   I found this as a change in recent versions of TheBat!
DW   Don't use From name for Reply-TO addresses option.
DW   However, I can't find the option so haven't been able to test it.

 Unless I'm mistaken by your question, this has nothing to do with what
 you intended, but you can find it at:
   Account - Properties - Templates - Reply - somewhere below

Thanks. Yes, thinking about it again it has nothing to do with what I
want to do.:-)

Thanks for such a full and fast response.

Doug

-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Doug,

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:04:54 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 11:04 +0200, where I
live), you wrote:

DW I think I can live with this on the mailing lists I have in mind.
DW Knowing what what I've done is wrong and why, thanks to your response,

Just be aware of the risk...

DW I've just now put this in the reply template:
DW %To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of
DW the sender's address?

Change it to:
%To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help)

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies 
or rabbits.



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Doug Weller]

Hi Roelof,


Saturday, April 10, 2004, 10:21:45 AM, you wrote:

[SNIP]

DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of
DW the sender's address?

 Change it to:
 %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help)


Thanks. I've also now found the appropriate help file.  Now if I could
figure out how to make the reply macro also capitalise the first letter
of the recipient's name in Hi %tofname. Is there anyway I can put
Ctl+/ in there?

Doug


-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Doug,

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 10:46:35 +0100GMT (10-4-04, 11:46 +0200, where I
live), you wrote:

DW Thanks. I've also now found the appropriate help file.  Now if I could
DW figure out how to make the reply macro also capitalise the first letter
DW of the recipient's name in Hi %tofname.

From the same helpfile:

CAPITAL = textConvert text to title case with a capitalised first letter for 
every word in the string.
CAPITALFIRST = text or UCFIRST = text   Convert text to sentence case 
capitalising the first character of the first word

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies 
or rabbits.



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Paul Cartwright]

On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 4:41 AM, you wrote:

DW   I searched and thought I'd found an answer to the problem of replying
DW   to a list when the list is set to reply to the sender.
DW   I put %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] in my reply template for the
DW   folder, but it didn't have an affect.


RO When you want to do a list reply, you might choose for several
RO options:
RO 1) Right mouse click on the To: header of the incoming message and go
ROfor 'Reply to this address'


RO I'd go for the first option.

I have that same problem with a list I'm on, and I use method #1 also,
because sometimes I DO reply off-list:0)



-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1
Mar2004 (4.1.357)  (avast! version number)
0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number)
4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number)
  



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Paul Cartwright]

DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get rid of
DW the sender's address?

RO Change it to:
RO %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RO The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help)

nice, I like that! I just used that for my list:
%To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1
Mar2004 (4.1.357)  (avast! version number)
0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number)
4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number)
  



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Paul,

On Sat, 10 Apr 2004 06:55:33 -0400GMT (10-4-04, 12:55 +0200, where I
live), you wrote:

PC nice, I like that! I just used that for my list:
PC %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Well, just keep in mind what i said in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

   NOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off
   list (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even
   financially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message
   to the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't
   happen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder
   templates hardcoding the intended recipient.

I thought I'd better mention it again before calling Marck's eternal
wrath over me.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof

Disclaimer: Any opinion stated in this message is not necessarily shared by my budgies 
or rabbits.



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Paul Cartwright]

On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 7:18 AM, you wrote:

RONOTE THAT THIS IS DANGEROUS!!! Whenever you might want to reply off
ROlist (with a personal message) you can be very embarrassed or even
ROfinancially duped (depending on the message) by sending a message
ROto the list without intending to do so. Don't think that this won't
ROhappen to you, it will, it happens to everybody with folder
ROtemplates hardcoding the intended recipient.

I have caught a number of people using folder templates, I understand
the concept and issues involved.

RO I thought I'd better mention it again before calling Marck's eternal
RO wrath over me.

what, that kind and sharing moderator???G

-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1
Mar2004 (4.1.357)  (avast! version number)
0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number)
4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number)
  



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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Jonathan Angliss]

On Saturday, April 10, 2004, Paul Cartwright wrote...

DW But it's now going to both the sender and the list. How do I get
DW rid of the sender's address?

RO Change it to:
RO %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

RO The first %To macro empties the To: header (see the help)

 nice, I like that! I just used that for my list:
 %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

There is some extra safety that you can put in in the case of folder
templates which has been suggested if you _have_ to use them... it's
an IF :)  I don't remember the exact syntax, but something like this:

%IF:%TO=:%TO=[EMAIL PROTECTED]:%-

Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for
folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder templates are
evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of suggestions ;)

-- 
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])
Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600 Service Pack 1

Support your local medical examiner: die strangely!


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Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Doug Weller]

Hi Jonathan,

Saturday, April 10, 2004, 6:09:12 PM, you wrote:


 Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for
 folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder templates are
 evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of suggestions ;)

  I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his
  'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself.

  DOug

-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk



Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Marck D Pearlstone]

Dear Doug,

@10-Apr-2004, 20:33 Doug Weller [DW] in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Jonathan:

 Something like that, I think it's been mentioned in the past for
 folder templates, if you do a search for Marck's folder
 templates are evil reply, you can normally find a bunch of
 suggestions ;)

DW   I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his
DW   'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself.

Okay, okay! I'll bite.

stock lecture
I have a pet hate in TB. That pet hate is named Folder Templates. In
150 folders I have two and only two that have folder templates. They
are for two specific lists which don't set the reply address properly.

There is nothing else for which folder templates can be used that
can't be covered and even improved upon using Address Book templates.
There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there when
you use AB templates.

The dangers are all complacency based and are at their worst in
templates which use the %TO= macro. If, at the instant you start a
new message you happen to be focused on the wrong folder, the message
gets given the wrong address. This happens when you click a mailto
without changing folders. The results vary from embarrassing to
excruciating depending upon the content of the misdirected mail.

BTW - another mistake in such templates is to use the construct
%TO=[EMAIL PROTECTED] without a %TO='' before it. So any
pre-existing addresses are retained.

Back to the lecture: every time I say this, someone takes exception to
something I've said with comments like 'danger' is a bit harsh or
I've used Folder templates for ages and it's never gone wrong for
me.

Here's a fact for you: it goes wrong. That's why I'm writing this
message yet again.

It works exactly as designed and that design has a fundamental flaw.
The flaw is that it places too much responsibility on the user to make
sure that the addresses given on a new message are those intended.

With address book templates, there is never a mistake of this kind.
Replies are perfectly directed. New messages are a bit trickier.
Instead of clicking to the folder then clicking for a new message, you
have to click to the right of the new message button and select the
list address from the favourites (having denoted that the address *is*
a favourite in the address book).
/stock lecture

-- 
Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1
'

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Description: PGP signature

Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Doug Weller]

Hi Marck,


Saturday, April 10, 2004, 8:45:55 PM, you wrote:
[SNIP]
 There is nothing else for which folder templates can be used that
 can't be covered and even improved upon using Address Book templates.
 There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there when
 you use AB templates.

Ok.  I want all my lists to work the same way. At the moment I'm used to
clicking on the sender's address in the header field if I want to reply
to the sender, and on the reply button if I want to reply to the list,
so I'm not too worried about doing it the wrong way with a Folder
Template.

However -- I'd like to try address templates. I can't find them in the
Help file.  This is probably because I'm looking in the wrong place, but
I also tried the archives and turned up too many pages to go through. Is
there a quick guide to these?  I've done a web search also and found a
bit, but I'm still unclear as to how I'd use these for my purpose (and
how to set a group one for my mailing list group)

Thanks.

Doug

-- 
Doug Weller  Moderator, sci.archaeology.moderated
Submissions to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Doug and Helen's Dogs: http://www.dougandhelen.com
Doug's Archaeology Site: http://www.ramtops.co.uk



Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Marck D Pearlstone]

Dear Doug,

@10-Apr-2004, 21:38 Doug Weller [DW] in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck:

 There are dangers in using Folder Templates that are not there
 when you use AB templates.

DW Ok.  I want all my lists to work the same way.

Nice ideal but, in fact, there are two different types of list -
ones that supply the correct Reply-To header to help you write
back to the list and ones that don't. I maintain 2 distinct AB
groups too for lists I write to with PGP signing and list that I
write to without signing.

DW At the moment I'm used to clicking on the sender's address in
DW the header field if I want to reply to the sender, and on the
DW reply button if I want to reply to the list, so I'm not too
DW worried about doing it the wrong way with a Folder Template.

Well you should be!!! The first option will *fail* when there is a
folder template. All other options will be fine. You will be impeded
from replying privately to any posting in a folder which has a reply
template that changes the to address.

DW However -- I'd like to try address templates. I can't find them
DW in the Help file.

They're there. Just look up Address book in the index. Every group
in the AB can have its own reply templates. There's a link on the
first page of AB help to the templates.

DW ... (and how to set a group one for my mailing list group)

Same as any other. My unsigned list group template (translated
slightly) looks something like this:

Dear %ABofromHandle(%ABofromFIRSTNAME(%OFROMFNAME)),%-
%SINGLERE%QINCLUDE=QSUBJ
%wrapped=@%odate, %otime  %OFROMNAME [%qinclude(Initials)] %-
in %QINCLUDE(MSGID) said

%QINCLUDE=StrippedQuotes%-
%TO=''%TO='%ABOFROMNamePrefix(%ABOFROMName(%OFROMNAME)) %-
on %ABOREPLYHANDLE(%ABOREPLYFIRSTNAME) %OREPLYADDR'%-

(cutmark excluded to avoid confusion, but this is where it goes).
 %QINCLUDE=sig

-- 
Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1
'

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Description: PGP signature

Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Paul Cartwright]

On Saturday, April 10, 2004, 3:45 PM, you wrote:

DW   I just searched the archives, and can find a reference by Marck to his
DW   'folder templates are evil lecture', but not the post itself.

MDP Okay, okay! I'll bite.

no, don't bite! I heard you were a nice sharing kinda guy:)

MDP stock lecture

ok, I'll make SURE I add the:  %TO=''  string ;)

wait, I had it as this way:
%To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

you used single quotes..


-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v2.05 Beta/14 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1
Mar2004 (4.1.357)  (avast! version number)
0404-6 (09.04.2004) (avast! DB version number)
4.1.357 (avast! plugin version number)
  



Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Problem with replying to mailing lists

[Marck D Pearlstone]

Dear Paul,

@10-Apr-2004, 17:59 -0400 (10-Apr 22:59 UK time) Paul Cartwright
[PC] in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] said to Marck:

MDP Okay, okay! I'll bite.

PC no, don't bite! I heard you were a nice sharing kinda guy:)

grrrNASH!

MDP stock lecture

PC ok, I'll make SURE I add the:  %TO=''  string ;)

PC wait, I had it as this way:
PC %To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Okay. That will work.

PC you used single quotes..

shrug use either - use underscores - use hash signs. Any matched
character pair will do:

%To=%To=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%To=''%To='[EMAIL PROTECTED]'
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 
Cheers -- //.arck D Pearlstone -- List moderator
TB! v2.05 Beta/16 on Windows XP 5.1.2600 Service Pack 1
'

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Current version is 2.04.7 | 'Using TBUDL' information:
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Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Kim]

Hi all,

I am now a registered user of The Bat. My registration just arrived in
my e-mail a few minutes ago. :)

I have a question about setting up mailing lists in The Bat. I
currently belong to two mailing lists (this one and one other one),
and although the settings for this one seem to be fine, the other one
is not. I set up the lists similarly to how I did in Becky, creating a
filter and having the messages for the list go into a designated
folder. I receive messages fine for both mailing lists, however, when
I click reply for a message on the other mailing list, the person's
individual e-mail address appears in the TO section, rather than the
mailing list's e-mail address. For TBUDL the TO section works
correctly. Both accounts look exactly the same, except for one noted
difference. When I go up to Specials, the menu item Mailing List
is available for TBUDL, but it is grayed out for the other mailing
list. I set these two folders up at the same time, and I cannot figure
out what the problem is. I've gone through just about every setting I
can find, but no luck. Any ideas? Thanks.

-- 
Best regards,
Kim



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Kim,

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 14:32:15 -0500GMT (17-2-03, 20:32 +0100, where I
live), you wrote:

K I receive messages fine for both mailing lists, however, when I
K click reply for a message on the other mailing list, the person's
K individual e-mail address appears in the TO section, rather than
K the mailing list's e-mail address.

In that case, the mailing list probably does not insert/overwrite the
Reply-To header. There are several ways to handle this

Select the To:-header in the grey header section above the message,
use your right mouse button and select 'Reply to this address'

Or create a folder reply template for your list folder.
As you're probably aware, TB uses templates when it starts a message.
Those templates can be address book based, folder based or account
based. In this case you can create a folder reply template (select the
folder, right mouse button, properties, reply template)
In this template, you can use the macro:
%To=''%To='%OFromName on listname listaddress'%-
Where you need to substitute listname with the name of the list and
listaddress with the address of the list.



-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Jonathan Angliss]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, February 17, 2003, Kim wrote...

 I am now a registered user of The Bat. My registration just arrived
 in my e-mail a few minutes ago. :)

Well worth the money in my opinion ;)

 I have a question about setting up mailing lists in The Bat. I
 currently belong to two mailing lists (this one and one other one),
 and although the settings for this one seem to be fine, the other
 one is not. I set up the lists similarly to how I did in Becky,
 creating a filter and having the messages for the list go into a
 designated folder. I receive messages fine for both mailing lists,
 however, when I click reply for a message on the other mailing
 list, the person's individual e-mail address appears in the TO
 section, rather than the mailing list's e-mail address.

It could be that the second list doesn't use a reply-to header. When
that line is missing in the headers, hitting reply goes back to the
sender. It could also be possible that Becky is seeing list headers,
and automatically replying to the list without option. TheBat doesn't
do that, and follows what it is told to do. There are options to work
around that, such as templates that will alter the addresses (I'm sure
others will give better examples than I ever could). Another option is
to hit the Reply to all button instead of just reply, and move the
addresses around.

 When I go up to Specials, the menu item Mailing List is
 available for TBUDL, but it is grayed out for the other mailing
 list.

TheBat seems to only respond to certain list headers. Certain list
software puts, in the headers of each mail, details about the list,
and special options, such as unsubscribe, help and such. I don't think
TheBat has a handle on all the list software available, or even close
to it.

- --
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQA/AwUBPlE9ECuD6BT4/R9zEQJOfACgi4i5sz5K5v2SBar20pvMPTAb3zIAnjON
IZ3oGgM7kXuvR0ctNLRVQE+6
=7II6
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Paul Cartwright]

On Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:32 PM, you wrote:

K I have a question about setting up mailing lists in The Bat. I
K currently belong to two mailing lists (this one and one other one),
K and although the settings for this one seem to be fine, the other one
K is not. 

is there a link at the bottom of that list message that has the REPLY-TO
info in it?  Other than looking for that, I think someone else mentioned
reply-to-all..

-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/5 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Paul Cartwright]

On Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:32 PM, you wrote:

K I am now a registered user of The Bat. My registration just arrived in
K my e-mail a few minutes ago. :)

congrats!!
there is a lot to learn to use many of the features, but you can
obviously do well from the beginning !! This list has lots of people
that can answer almost any question!!

-- 
 Paul
Using The Bat! v1.63 Beta/5 on Windows XP 5.1 Build 2600
Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re[2]: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Kim]

Hi Roelof,

Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:52:08 PM, you wrote:

 In that case, the mailing list probably does not insert/overwrite the
 Reply-To header. There are several ways to handle this

 Select the To:-header in the grey header section above the message,
 use your right mouse button and select 'Reply to this address'

 Or create a folder reply template for your list folder.
 As you're probably aware, TB uses templates when it starts a message.
 Those templates can be address book based, folder based or account
 based. In this case you can create a folder reply template (select the
 folder, right mouse button, properties, reply template)
 In this template, you can use the macro:
 %To=''%To='%OFromName on listname listaddress'%-
 Where you need to substitute listname with the name of the list and
 listaddress with the address of the list.

I tried your last suggestion (with the macro) and it worked like a
charm! Thanks so much!!!

Incidently, I took a look at the headers of the other mailing list,
and compared them to this one. You were right...the Reply-To header
listed the individual, not the mailing list on the other list. That's
why the mailing list address didn't come up when I hit Reply. You
were exactly right.  :)

-- 
Best regards,
Kim



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Kim]

Hi Paul,

Monday, February 17, 2003, 3:00:19 PM, you wrote:

 is there a link at the bottom of that list message that has the REPLY-TO
 info in it?  Other than looking for that, I think someone else mentioned
 reply-to-all..

Yep...the Reply-To within the mailing list itself was the problem. The
Reply-To still lists the individual, and not address of the list
itself, which is why the Reply-To wasn't correct. I amended my
Reply-To folder template for the mailing list, as Roelof suggested. It
worked like a charm. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Kim



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Mary Bull]

Hello Kim!

On Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:26 PM, you wrote:

R Or create a folder reply template for your list folder.

K I tried your last suggestion (with the macro) and it worked like a
K charm! Thanks so much!!!

Kim, just a word of caution with folder macros. It's easy to
accidentally send to a list something you meant to send privately,
using these. This is also true of another feature of The Bat!:
auto-complete, which completes the address for you if you type the
first few letters in manually.

I'm sure this would never happen to you, but I used to have a bad
habit of not checking what was in my To: field before sending the
message. Got caught with auto-complete one time! :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Kim,

On Mon, 17 Feb 2003 15:26:23 -0500GMT (17-2-03, 21:26 +0100, where I
live), you wrote:

 In this template, you can use the macro:
 %To=''%To='%OFromName on listname listaddress'%-

K I tried your last suggestion (with the macro) and it worked like a
K charm! Thanks so much!!!

I thought it might.
Now that I've mentioned folder templates with a %to-macro, it's my
responsibility to warn you to be careful with them.

In a reply-template they're rather harmless, since you're aware in
what folder you are. In a new message template the %To macro would
come in very handy too, after all you'd never have to look for the
list-address. This is very dangerous. Suppose you're clicking on a
mailto: link on a website while you're still in the list folder in
TB. This means that you'll use the folder template for the mailto:
link. The effect of a message sent to a list, while you thought it
would be private, might be merely embarrassing or disastrous,
depending on the subject you're discussing.

I can imagine you're saying that this would never happen to you, but
I've seen it happening enough. It's not 'if', but 'when'.

I'm not discouraging you from using %To in a reply template (after all
I wouldn't suggest something unsafe), but only for new message
templates

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re[2]: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Kim]

Hi Jonathan,

Monday, February 17, 2003, 2:50:36 PM, you wrote:

 Well worth the money in my opinion ;)

I tend to agree with you there.

 It could be that the second list doesn't use a reply-to header. When
 that line is missing in the headers, hitting reply goes back to the
 sender. It could also be possible that Becky is seeing list headers,
 and automatically replying to the list without option. TheBat doesn't
 do that, and follows what it is told to do. There are options to work
 around that, such as templates that will alter the addresses (I'm sure
 others will give better examples than I ever could). Another option is
 to hit the Reply to all button instead of just reply, and move the
 addresses around.

That was exactly it. The other list indeed does not use a Reply-To
header.

 TheBat seems to only respond to certain list headers. Certain list
 software puts, in the headers of each mail, details about the list,
 and special options, such as unsubscribe, help and such. I don't think
 TheBat has a handle on all the list software available, or even close
 to it.

The other list is a LISTSERV list. I know they're a pretty common
mailing list outfit, so I was surprised to find out that this
particular one doesn't use the list's address in their Reply-To's.
Maybe I should suggest to them that they do that, and make it easier
on the rest of us.  :)

Thanks for your help!

-- 
Best regards,
Kim



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Setting Up Mailing Lists - Problem

[Jonathan Angliss]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Monday, February 17, 2003, Kim wrote...

 It could be that the second list doesn't use a reply-to header.

 That was exactly it. The other list indeed does not use a Reply-To
 header.

 TheBat seems to only respond to certain list headers. Certain list
 software puts, in the headers of each mail, details about the list,
 and special options, such as unsubscribe, help and such. I don't
 think TheBat has a handle on all the list software available, or
 even close to it.

 The other list is a LISTSERV list. I know they're a pretty common
 mailing list outfit, so I was surprised to find out that this
 particular one doesn't use the list's address in their Reply-To's.
 Maybe I should suggest to them that they do that, and make it easier
 on the rest of us. :)

It might be that the list administrators/moderators have decided that
the don't want the reply-to being set. Most list management software
allows for changes of that field to make the list work in ways they
want. It might be worth posting on the wishlist to see if you can get
LISTSERV's headers added to the specials - mailing list feature. Off
the top of my head I cannot remember the address for it, I'm sure it
is mentioned in the list information (see the URL at the bottom of
this email). To be even more helpful, you could include a sample of
the headers from LISTSERV for the RitLab developers to they know what
they're looking for.

- --
Jonathan Angliss
([EMAIL PROTECTED])

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-

iQA/AwUBPlFcmCuD6BT4/R9zEQKRVQCgiJJ8AN3zQ33h3W2lFjX+N9g/xjwAnRXK
S5H868d2l3lkm4LMTSfUUQxJ
=2Zr3
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Mary,

On Fri, 24 Jan 2003 22:41:02 -0600GMT (25-1-03, 5:41 +0100GMT, where I
live), you wrote:

MB However, other subscribers to TBUDL are saying that properly
MB written List protocols will over-ride a Poster's reply to
MB configuration.

It's not really a matter of properly written protocols, but it's a
matter of personal taste. ;-)

There are those who compare lists to newsgroups, where you can add
your reply-to header to make sure the reply will be send to you
privately and not public. They think that when the poster to a list
supplies a reply-to that ought to be a conscious decision on his/her
side that shouldn't be overridden by the list.

Others think that when you're writing to a public list, you should be
expecting public answers, especially since the question one person
asks could be the question the next would ask too.

There are other lists too. Some lists make it impossible to reply
privately to the original poster, since the list software replaces
his e-mail address with something else. From a privacy point of view
that's great. ;-)

Some list-programs have other possibilities to be configured, but some
programs don't even support the possibility to insert reply-to's. It's
all philosophical I think.

Eventual follow-ups to tbot, please. This getting of topic.
(Newsclients also support a follow-up header, to get all replies in
one group after an original crossposted message.)


-- 
Groetjes, Roelof



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
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Re[2]: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Anne]

Monday, January 20, 2003, 7:45:47 PM, Thomas wrote:

 The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
 over-riding her List settings.

TF I don't think that you can override her settings, but you could try to
TF use the %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] macro in your templates for
TF that list.


Thomas, Yes you can with Rootsweb lists - it's the way their
listserver software works.

Mary, there are two choices - first is to omit your reply to address
in the account details altogether, second is to set up a reply
template in your address book to override your own reply to account
settings for that list like this %REPLYTO=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
(which is what I do for my Rootsweb lists ;-)

-- 
Cheers,
 Anne

 The Bat Email - Unofficial Support Forum:
 http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com  



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Anne]

Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 5:46:08 PM, Mary wrote:

MB  I don't think I want to get into a discussion with the
MB moderator on her List settings at this point. The level of experience,
MB even with her, is, I think, Outlook Express.


No point doing so Mary. On Rootsweb the listowner's decision is final!
g Actually I think you'll find Joan is an AOL user of many year's
standing ;-)

-- 
Cheers,
 Anne   also a Rootsweb listowner ;-)

 The Bat Email - Unofficial Support Forum:
 http://the-bat-forums.donzeigler.com  



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello Anne!

On Thursday, January 23, 2003, 10:41 PM, you wrote:

MB I don't think I want to get into a discussion with the moderator
MB on her List settings at this point. The level of experience, even
MB with her, is, I think, Outlook Express.

A No point doing so Mary. On Rootsweb the listowner's decision is final!
A g Actually I think you'll find Joan is an AOL user of many year's
A standing ;-)

Well, I knew that she didn't know anything about The Bat! She said so
herself when I was asking her how I could put the Reply To field into
my e-mails. I didn't understand myself how it got there every place
but on Senior-Newbie. Turned out I needed to uncheck something in
Accounts/Properties/General--or rather erase something. :)

But I thought I had to enable something, when actually it was disable
I needed to do.

However, other subscribers to TBUDL are saying that properly written
List protocols will over-ride a Poster's reply to configuration. And
apparently some do--as for instance Computers-L was consistently
putting the Reply To in my posts from the time I started using The
Bat!

Want to move this over to TBOT? I never know these days what is OT
here and what's not. :)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Spike]

Hello Mary Bull,

On or about Monday, January 20, 2003 at 14:12:32GMT -0600 (which
was 3:12 PM in the tropics where I live) Mary Bull opined:

8 Snipped a bunch

MB Peter, this is a very nice list. Some of the people on it know even
MB less than I, and I'm sometimes able to help fellow Senior-Newbies. On
MB the other hand, there are some who have excellent over-all knowledge
MB who are giving their time, and also others whose knowledge, while
MB spotty, like mine, happens to include answers to questions I ask.

MB Hardly any of them have heard of The Bat! however. :) One or two,
MB including the List Moderator, have. Senior-Newbies-L's list protocols
MB are far less stringent than those of TBUDL. :) g

You must take this opportunity to edu-ma-cate them Mary!  Just
think, you can be the 'ambassador of proper netiquette' on that
list and make a new crop of better informed users! ;-)  Work with
the moderator by stating the reasons why it is important (from an
organizational standpoint) to conform to established protocols.

You had to know there was a (hidden) reason why you joined that
list!

-- 
Warmest tropical wishes,
Spike

I liked things better when I didn't understand them. - Calvin

--
/\   ASCII Ribbon Campaign - Against HTML Mail
\ /   If it aint a webpage it shouldn't be HTML. 
 XSay NO! to bloatmail - ban HTML mail!
/ \   Ask Spikey, he hates everything (HTML).
--
Flying in the stratosphere with The Bat! V1.61 on 
Windows 2000 Vers. 5 0 Build 2195 Service Pack 3
--



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello Spike!

On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 8:16 AM, you wrote:

S 8 Snipped a bunch

MB ... this [Senior-Newbies] is a very nice list. ...

 snipped a bunch more ... 

MB ... Hardly any of them have heard of The Bat! however. :) ...

S You must take this opportunity to edu-ma-cate them Mary!  Just
S think, you can be the 'ambassador of proper netiquette' on that
S list and make a new crop of better informed users! ;-)  Work with
S the moderator by stating the reasons why it is important (from an
S organizational standpoint) to conform to established protocols.

I think the moderator is truly already doing an excellent job of that.
The list is about 2 years old. Rootsweb called it to everyone's
attention (including mine) in a newsletter last week, and suddenly it
had 171 new subscribers.

The policy is extreme tolerance with newbies. Explain, but let them
make their mistakes over and over without being scolded. There's a lot
of knowledge and skill being dispensed and information offered,
including advice about Netiquette, aside from my posts.

Just about *everyone* there responded to my query on my missing Reply
to with, hit Reply All. None of them seem to mind getting duplicate
messages. :) I don't think I want to get into a discussion with the
moderator on her List settings at this point. The level of experience,
even with her, is, I think, Outlook Express.

Good teaching goes from the known to the unknown? I think I'd better
go slow. But I do mean to evangelize for The Bat! There is only one
other The Bat! user on Senior-Newbie.

S You had to know there was a (hidden) reason why you joined that
S list!

I hoped to learn something! And help where I could, of course. The
people on Senior-Newbie-L tend to be my age, and their chief interest
in the computer seems to be to learn to use it for doing genealogy.

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re[2]: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Joseph N.]

   On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, Mary Bull wrote in
[EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]:

MB Good teaching goes from the known to the unknown

Very nice.

-- 
JN



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello Joseph!

On Tuesday, January 21, 2003, 1:36 PM, you wrote:

MB Good teaching goes from the known to the unknown

J Very nice.

Fellow teacher?

At least, fellow Bat lover. I noted your version in your expanded
headers. ;)

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello All!

I just subscribed to an interesting (to me) new list, Rootsweb's
Senior-Newbies-L.

Something about the settings I have made in The Bat! seems to be
causing my Reply To field not to show. Consequently, many who choose
to reply to my posts are sending the replies to me privately, when
they are really meaning to post their replies to the list.

Does anyone know what I should put in the address book template for
[EMAIL PROTECTED] to make a Reply To with the S-N address
showing in it appear in my posts to this list?

The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
over-riding her List settings.

I have looked at the MACRO list in Help, I have been to FAQ at
Silverstones, I have studied the Reply MACROS in
Accounts/Properties/Templates. Nothing that seems to meet this need
springs to my untutored eye! Help?

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Mary,

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:41:09 -0600 GMT (21/01/03, 02:41 +0700 GMT),
Mary Bull wrote:

 The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
 over-riding her List settings.

I don't think that you can override her settings, but you could try to
use the %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] macro in your templates for
that list.

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

Note: Please don't misconstrue my 14 jobs as 'job-hopping'. I have
never quit a job.

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 
using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello Thomas!

On Monday, January 20, 2003, 1:45 PM, you wrote:

MB The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
MB over-riding her List settings.

T I don't think that you can override her settings, but you could try to
T use the %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] macro in your templates for
T that list.

Thanks, Thomas. Put the list address in quotes, as you have above?

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Peter Meyns]

Hi Mary,

on Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:41:09 -0600GMT (20.01.03, 20:41 +0100GMT here),
you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

MB I just subscribed to an interesting (to me) new list, Rootsweb's
MB Senior-Newbies-L.

MB Something about the settings I have made in The Bat! seems to be
MB causing my Reply To field not to show. Consequently, many who choose
MB to reply to my posts are sending the replies to me privately, when
MB they are really meaning to post their replies to the list.

MB The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
MB over-riding her List settings.

Yes, it is in Account -- Properties -- General. It should suffice to delete
all Reply-to information given there. You only need this entry, if you want
the reply to go to another address than the From-address. When there is no
reply-to header, the reply will go to the From-address. So your private
mails won't be affected.

HTH :-)

-- 
Cheers
Peter

And always remember that it's bad style
to start a sentence with a conjunction!

Winamp currently playing: Bonnie Tyler - Total Eclipse Of The Heart



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Mary Bull]

Hello Peter!

On Monday, January 20, 2003, 2:03 PM, you wrote:

P Hi Mary,

MB I just subscribed to an interesting (to me) new list, Rootsweb's
MB Senior-Newbies-L.

snip

MB The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
MB over-riding her List settings.

P Yes, it is in Account -- Properties -- General. It should suffice to delete
P all Reply-to information given there. ...

I have now done this. It worked.

P ... You only need this entry, if you want the reply to go to
P another address than the From-address. When there is no reply-to
P header, the reply will go to the From-address. So your private
P mails won't be affected.

That's reassuring to know.

Peter, this is a very nice list. Some of the people on it know even
less than I, and I'm sometimes able to help fellow Senior-Newbies. On
the other hand, there are some who have excellent over-all knowledge
who are giving their time, and also others whose knowledge, while
spotty, like mine, happens to include answers to questions I ask.

Hardly any of them have heard of The Bat! however. :) One or two,
including the List Moderator, have. Senior-Newbies-L's list protocols
are far less stringent than those of TBUDL. :) g

-- 
Best regards,
Mary

The Bat! 1.61 on Windows XP 5.1 2600 Service Pack 1



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Peter Meyns]

Hi Thomas,

on Tue, 21 Jan 2003 02:45:47 +0700GMT (20.01.03, 20:45 +0100GMT here),
you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

 The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
 over-riding her List settings.

TF I don't think that you can override her settings but you could try to
TF use the %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] macro in your templates for
TF that list.

This is certainly more elegant than my suggestion to leave out the reply-to
entry at all...

Anyway, it's most probably faulty list-server software causing this. Good
thing, TB! provides work-arounds. :-)

-- 
Cheers
Peter

Experience is that marvelous thing that enables you to
 recognize a mistake when you make it again.

Winamp currently playing: Monty Python - The Bridge Of Death   
  



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Peter Meyns]

Hi Mary,

on Mon, 20 Jan 2003 14:12:32 -0600GMT (20.01.03, 21:12 +0100GMT here),
you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

MB The list moderator, Joan Young, says that something in my settings is
MB over-riding her List settings.

P Yes, it is in Account -- Properties -- General. It should suffice to delete
P all Reply-to information given there. ...

MB I have now done this. It worked.

It is only a work-around, but it is easier than to have them change their
list-server software. Actually, _their_ Reply-to entry should override your
own (if existent) on the list...

MB Peter, this is a very nice list. Some of the people on it know even
MB less than I, and I'm sometimes able to help fellow Senior-Newbies.

You wouldn't have believed this, would you? ;-) Neither would I when I
started TBUDL. So let's keep on learning. :)

-- 
Cheers
Peter

It takes more than three weeks to prepare a good impromptu speech.
 Mark Twain

Winamp currently playing: Magna Carta - Two old friends
  



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Heiko Kuschel]

Hallo Peter Meyns,

am Montag, 20. Januar 2003 schriebst Du:



 It is only a work-around, but it is easier than to have them change their
 list-server software. Actually, _their_ Reply-to entry should override your
 own (if existent) on the list...

Well, I once learned that this was deliberate, and thought all mailing
list software acts this way.
So I could put a Reply-To: in my mail when I only wanted answers in
private mail. Worked 4 years ago when I last used it. ;-)



-- 
Schöne Grüße
Heiko Kuschel - http://www.kuschelkirche.de/
  - http://www.kuschelchaos.de/
Ev. Kirchengemeinde Gochsheim - http://www.stmichael-gochsheim.de/
AMIGAplus: alles für die Freundin - http://www.amigaplus.de/



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Peter Meyns]

Hi Heiko,

on Mon, 20 Jan 2003 21:59:32 +0100GMT (20.01.03, 21:59 +0100GMT here),
you wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED] :

 It is only a work-around, but it is easier than to have them change their
 list-server software. Actually, _their_ Reply-to entry should override your
 own (if existent) on the list...

HK Well, I once learned that this was deliberate, and thought all mailing
HK list software acts this way.

So here seems to be at least one that doesn't adhere to this, what I
thought to be self-imminent too.

-- 
Cheers
Peter

The pen is mightier than the sword, and considerably easier to write with.
Marty Feldman

Winamp currently playing: Aimee Mann - Nobody Does It Better   
  



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Re: Reply to field for mailing lists

[Thomas Fernandez]

Hello Mary,

On Mon, 20 Jan 2003 13:57:13 -0600 GMT (21/01/03, 02:57 +0700 GMT),
Mary Bull wrote:

T I don't think that you can override her settings, but you could try to
T use the %Reply-To=[EMAIL PROTECTED] macro in your templates for
T that list.

 Thanks, Thomas. Put the list address in quotes, as you have above?

Yes, but without hyphen:

%ReplyTo=[EMAIL PROTECTED]

-- 

Cheers,
Thomas.

Moderator der deutschen The Bat! Beginner Liste.

How can I miss you if you won't go away?

Message reply created with The Bat! 1.63 Beta/3
under Chinese Windows 98 4.10 Build  A 
using an AMD Athlon K7 1.2GHz, 128MB RAM



Current version is 1.62 | Using TBUDL information:
http://www.silverstones.com/thebat/TBUDLInfo.html

Attachments in mailing lists?

[David Floyd]

Using BAT v.1.60 on Windows2K

Have used The Bat for a mailing list for some time now, but now we 
require to send attachments to each other via the list.

In 'sorting rules' for 'postings' I have 'create a message for the
list' ticked and then a template which looks like this (disguised in
places):

%TEXT
-- 


This message came from %OFROMNAME %OFROMADDR
Via the xxx x Members Mailing List

%TO=
%ReplyTo=
%From=
%RETURNPATH=


%TO= Members [EMAIL PROTECTED]
%ReplyTo= Members [EMAIL PROTECTED]
%From=%OFROMNAME %OFROMADDR
%BCC=xxx  Members list
%RETURNPATH=[EMAIL PROTECTED]
%SUBJECT=[ABC] %OSUBJ

This has worked fine for a couple of years but I can't get it to work to 
included attachments.

I have included %ATTACHMENTS on the next line under %TEXT, but the 
outgoing message just has none after the text.

Can any-one help me with what I should do (in simple language please, as 
I'm not a tech expert)

Thanks,
David Floyd


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Re: PGP and Mailing Lists

[Nick Andriash]

Hello Michael Disabato,

On Sunday, April 14 2002 at 04:49 AM PDT, you wrote:

 OK, that's what I thought. I'm struggling through the implementation
 of GnuPG to support IDEA (RFC1991 compatibility with TB!). Once
 that's done, I'll use GPGRelay as a front end for the thing.

You have to add the IDEA module. If you are using Windows you can load
the Nullify GnuPG 1.06 Binary which includes the IDEA Module:

http://www.nullify.org/


-- 
Nick Andriash
Courtenay, B.C. Canada



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Re: PGP and Mailing Lists

[Michael Disabato]

Monday, April 15, 2002, 3:20:49 PM, Nick scribbled:

NA You have to add the IDEA module. If you are using Windows you can load
NA the Nullify GnuPG 1.06 Binary which includes the IDEA Module:

NA http://www.nullify.org/

Nick,

Once again, thank you for your reply. I found nullify.org while
looking at GPGShell. Both have been loaded and I've successfully done
some tests. The only problem is that, even with the IDEA module, GPG
does not generate IDEA keys, at least I haven't gotten it to work.
With that in mind, I'll generate the keys in TB! and use GPGShell to
manage the mailing list system.

Thanks again!

Mike



smime.p7s
Description: S/MIME Cryptographic Signature

Re: PGP and Mailing Lists

[Michael Disabato]

Saturday, April 13, 2002, 11:03:59 PM, Nick scribbled:

NA Hello Michael Disabato,

 and then have it re-encrypted to the subscriber keys before sending it
 back out?

NA Not without intervention.

OK, that's what I thought. I'm struggling through the implementation
of GnuPG to support IDEA (RFC1991 compatibility with TB!). Once
that's done, I'll use GPGRelay as a front end for the thing.

Thanks for your reply!

Mike



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Re: PGP and Mailing Lists

[Nick Andriash]

Hello Michael Disabato,

On Thursday, April 11 2002 at 04:11 AM PDT, you wrote:

 I'm interested in using TB! for a small mailing list. Is it possible
 to have TB! detect incoming mail as being encrypted to the list key

It will not be TB that detects it, rather the Plugin will detect it upon
decrypting the message.

 and then have it re-encrypted to the subscriber keys before sending it
 back out?

Not without intervention.


-- 
Nick Andriash
Courtenay, B.C. Canada



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PGP and Mailing Lists

[Michael Disabato]

I'm interested in using TB! for a small mailing list. Is it possible
to have TB! detect incoming mail as being encrypted to the list key
and then have it re-encrypted to the subscriber keys before sending it
back out?

Mike



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Outgoing filter for mailing lists.

[Ottar Grimstad]

Hello Miguel,

Saturday, April 6, 2002, 12:00:59 AM, you wrote to TBUDL:

MAU for mail lists, you don't need an outgoing filter (or if you use
MAU it you can send messages directly to trash) because you will get
MAU your own message back from the list.

I make a subfolder for my mailinglists for my outgoing messages to the
list and filter them into this. Under account properties for this
folder I have automatic deletion of messages after a couple of days.
This way I have some control whether my messages makes it to the list,
and I can easily resend in case of problems, and I keep my Sent-folder
slim.

-- 
Best regards,
  Ottar Grimstad, Norway
http://home.online.no/~ottgrims
Using The Bat! 1.60c on Windows 98 version 4,10



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Re: Outgoing filter for mailing lists.

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hello Ottar,

 I make a subfolder for my mailinglists for my outgoing messages to the
 list and filter them into this. Under account properties for this
 folder I have automatic deletion of messages after a couple of days.
 This way I have some control whether my messages makes it to the list,
 and I can easily resend in case of problems, and I keep my Sent-folder
 slim.

I must admit it is not a bad idea. However, in my case, I already have
over 260 folders in my tree and I refuse to create new ones if I don't
really have to.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.60c



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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Alastair Scott]

On 02 March 2002 at 15:47 Miguel wrote:

 My point, in case I didn't make it clear, is that everything in a
 message adds up to it's final footprint and not just secure
 signatures. And that all redundant and/or unnecessary information
 is, from my point of view, a waste. That is why I used the Me too
 as an example of how a very short message may end up with an
 un-proportional footprint, specially if you multiply it by the number
 of subscribers to this list.

I'm afraid things are going the opposite way - try, for example,

i. Yahoo! Groups mailing lists (adverts added by servers);

ii. emails from corporate mail addresses ('this mail is virus-free'
and/or legal disclaimers added by servers).

Neither of these additions existed a few years ago and in some ways,
this list adds very little; often either of i. or ii. are 20 lines
long and are enforced (the user can't turn them off) :(

Alastair


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DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Alastair,

On 03 March 2002 at 21:07:35 + Alastair Scott wrote in
mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 I'm afraid things are going the opposite way - try, for example,

moderator

This topic went way off / too long and I have already pronounced it
dead.

Please take it off-list or to TBOT.

Thank you.
/moderator

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
___
\ BrainStorm - think outside the box http://www.brainstormsw.com  /
 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com /
·
SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 ·
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQE8gpT9OeQkq5KdzaARApYxAKCo6VJY8x4+9DINaITRIsXuZSJAFgCeNQcw
ci6nV+/RK0dww1CXB242MbQ=
=Dnuh
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



-- 

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threading? (was: Re: Signatures on mailing lists)

[Roman Katzer]

On Sunday, March 03, 2002, 22:07:35, Alastair Scott wrote:
[...]

Hi Alastair,
both of your mails aren't threaded properly in my TB. Any idea why?

Roman



-- 
Roman Katzer, Aachen, Germany

I'll have what the guy on the floor is having.


-- 

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Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Miguel!

On Saturday, March 2, 2002 at 11:43:35 AM you wrote:

 I may be quite dumb but, aside of wasting bandwidth and filling up
 everybody's mailboxes and folders, I don't see the purpose of sending
 S/MIME or PGP signed messages to a list like this one. Am I missing
 something?

There has been quite a discussion in the last year about secure
signing or not. Without going into the details, let me just say that I
am all for it. But I have refrained from doing it on the TB! lists due
to many people complaining about the added footprint of them.

As for S/MIME, I am not a big fan of it, regard it actually as just a
clever marketing scheme not giving much security. the arguments for
this can be read up in several places, like the Introduction to PGP by
Phil Zimmermann.

all of that said, I can't help you with your problem, but can't really
imagine that the sig is the culprit. There has to be something else.


-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

The Bat 1.54 Beta/45 on Windows 95 4.0 1212 C

Those who can, do; those who can't, teach.(George Bernard Shaw)


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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Dierk,

 There has been quite a discussion in the last year about secure
 signing or not.

I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago.

 Without going into the details, let me just say that I am all for
 it.

That may be my problem, that I don't understand the benefits of secure
signing in general, and for a list like this in particular. I may have
to do some reading about PGP, etc., and see if I understand.

 But I have refrained from doing it on the TB! lists due
 to many people complaining about the added footprint of them.

But the big footprint is not just caused by secure signatures, at
least the way I see it. As an example to explain what I mean let's
take one of these Me too! messages ( and by me too here I mean a
short 1 line text).

- First you get the RFC-822 headers. We don't normally look at them,
at least I don't, but they are there. Quite huge some times. And on
messages coming from this list with all kinds of information and URLs
about the list. I think some times it even includes the birthday date
of the youngest nice of the moderator ;-)
- Then messages from some of you tell us that it is a PGP signed one.
- Then some of you, on replies, tell us _again_ who you are replying
to, even with the original message ID some times, and what time it was
in 2 or 7 different parts of the world when when the originator wrote
his message and when you received it, and many times even repeating
the subject of the message. I assume that everybody in this list uses
TB, don't all of you take advantage of threading?
- Then some people quote the whole original message, or big parts of
it. Again, what about threading?
- Then you write Me too!.
- Then, finally, a normal signature. This is nice and polite. But some
time perhaps too big with full address details, etc., etc.
- Then information about TB version being used. Normal and needed in a
list like this.
- Then maybe a rather long Cookie. When reading and writing to this
list I assume we are mainly interested about TB, possible problems and
ways to do things. But, who cares about what John Doe thinks about
French fries?
- But we are not finished yet. Then comes the PGP signature, some
times rather long, so I will know that it was you who wrote Me too!
and that you did write Me too!. Correct?
- But we are not done yet either. Then comes the information added by
the list server, telling us again when is the birthday of the youngest
moderator's nice and which is already in the RFC-822 headers
- And then, finally, like in my own messages until I register (if I do)
MailScan and can get rid of it, maybe a disclaimer saying that this
message has no virus.

And all of that to just say Me too!.  It does seem quite a waste to me.

 As for S/MIME, I am not a big fan of it, regard it actually as just a
 clever marketing scheme not giving much security. the arguments for
 this can be read up in several places, like the Introduction to PGP by
 Phil Zimmermann.

As I have said above, I probably need to do some reading about PGP,
etc.

 all of that said, I can't help you with your problem, but can't really
 imagine that the sig is the culprit. There has to be something else.

I have no idea what may cause the problem, I just wanted to say that
Me too! g had seen the same problem as Geoff.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Dierk Haasis]

Hello Miguel!

On Saturday, March 2, 2002 at 1:38:26 PM you wrote:

 I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago.

Luckily the archives are quite good. ;-)

 That may be my problem, that I don't understand the benefits of secure
 signing in general, and for a list like this in particular. I may have
 to do some reading about PGP, etc., and see if I understand.

More or less the same as signing an ordinary letter or contract.

 But the big footprint is not just caused by secure signatures, at
 least the way I see it. As an example to explain what I mean let's
 take one of these Me too! messages ( and by me too here I mean a
 short 1 line text).

I see your point, but ... Sometimes Me, too messages are needed
especially on software related lists, e.g. to identify bugs.

 - First you get the RFC-822 headers.

1. We can't do anything against them.

2. I've seen a lot of requests to include more headers.

3. TB! already uses only the most sufficient ones (plus list headers,
which are a real improvement on lists).

 I assume that everybody in this list uses TB, don't all of you take
 advantage of threading?

Some use threading, some don't. but that's beside the point. Maybe it
is just a matter of personal taste but I like the (various) intros in
messages, although I use the pure, short, informational one only.

 - Then some people quote the whole original message, or big parts of
 it. Again, what about threading?

I concur when it comes to full quotes. What about my use of snipped
quoting?
BTW, threading doesn't come in here, I usually delete a message I've
read unless it is very important to me and I don't have any other
meaningful way of storing it but TB!'s message base.

 - Then, finally, a normal signature. This is nice and polite. But some
 time perhaps too big with full address details, etc., etc.

I consider it a letter head, which is quite useful for both sides,
sender and receiver.

 - Then maybe a rather long Cookie. When reading and writing to this
 list I assume we are mainly interested about TB, possible problems and
 ways to do things. But, who cares about what John Doe thinks about
 French fries?

Wrong. Communication is about much more than pure information. Luckily
the world (of business) again begins to recognize this crucial point.
I don't want to bore you, so I just leave the monologue. Just believe
me, I like those cookies by others, it tells me a lot about their
state of mind.

 - But we are not finished yet. Then comes the PGP signature, some
 times rather long, so I will know that it was you who wrote Me too!
 and that you did write Me too!. Correct?

Yes.

 - But we are not done yet either. Then comes the information added by
 the list server, telling us again when is the birthday of the youngest
 moderator's nice and which is already in the RFC-822 headers

Don't you think you are beginning to go overboard with a real point
you might have?

 And all of that to just say Me too!.  It does seem quite a waste to me.

The problem is more about contents of a message and therefore the
thought one put into it. It's not so much about the overhead.

 I have no idea what may cause the problem, I just wanted to say that
 Me too! g had seen the same problem as Geoff.

see, that's why it sometimes is a good thing to Me-too.



-- 
Dierk Haasis
http://www.Write4U.de
http://Interest.Write4U.de/pongo

PGP keys available: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?Subject=SendMyPGPkeys

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Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Dierk,

 I missed it, I joined this list about a month ago.
 Luckily the archives are quite good. ;-)

Yes, I know they quite good. But I don't have the time now.

 More or less the same as signing an ordinary letter or contract.

Understand. I can understand that to sign a contract you need to proof
the you are you with an ID card, or a passport or something. But do
you show your passport every time you write a note to a friend? ;-)

 Sometimes Me, too messages are needed especially on software
 related lists, e.g. to identify bugs.

Of course. I am not questioning the Me too messages, or its need, I
used that as an example of short messages.

 - First you get the RFC-822 headers.
 1. We can't do anything against them.

Right. But they do add to the footprint of the message, don't they?
That's my point.

 I like the (various) intros in messages, although I use the pure,
 short, informational one only.

I don't mind the intros themselves. Although I hardly really pay
attention to any of them, some of them are funny. But they do add to
the foot print also, don't they?

 What about my use of snipped quoting?

That's the way I think we all should do it.

 BTW, threading doesn't come in here, I usually delete a message I've
 read unless it is very important to me and I don't have any other
 meaningful way of storing it but TB!'s message base.

You should keep messages for a couple of weeks or so. You may not be
interested in at first, but become interested as the _thread_ grows a
couple of days afterwards. The you could easily follow the thread
without having to go to the list archives.

 Wrong. Communication is about much more than pure information.

Yes, in a chat, or a general purpose forum, or at a bar while drinking
a couple of beers.

 I like those cookies by others, it tells me a lot about their
 state of mind.

Aren't most cookies just automatically and randomly inserted at the
end of the message?

 Then comes the PGP signature, some times rather long, so I will
 know that it was you who wrote Me too! and that you did write Me
 too!. Correct?
 
 Yes.

Great. I got it then. I may not need as much reading as I thought. ;-)

 Don't you think you are beginning to go overboard with a real point
 you might have?

My point, in case I didn't make it clear, is that everything in a
message adds up to it's final footprint and not just secure
signatures. And that all redundant and/or unnecessary information
is, from my point of view, a waste. That is why I used the Me too
as an example of how a very short message may end up with an
un-proportional footprint, specially if you multiply it by the number
of subscribers to this list.

 see, that's why it sometimes is a good thing to Me-too.

I never said they weren't. See paragraph above.

-- 
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Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

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Re: Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 16:47:20 +0100
Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  I like the (various) intros in messages, although I use the pure,
  short, informational one only.
 
 I don't mind the intros themselves. Although I hardly really pay
 attention to any of them, some of them are funny. But they do add to
 the foot print also, don't they?

More foot print means what ?

Which the power of TB! to autodelete signature when reply, long
signature will no problem. Or use selective reply, so even replying
messags without uncorrect signature separator or very long greetings no
problem for me.

If you're talking about message size that affect time to download msg from POP3 
(concern of people who use Dial Up which pay by minute), this list already restrict 
the size so that big size message will not allow post to the list.

If you are talking about bandwith waste, I think it is me concern about that, that's 
why this list restrict message size.

-- 
syafril
===
Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re[4]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Syafril,

 More foot print means what ?

More bytes than needed. Longer transmission time no matter how fast it
is; more storage space required; more time needed for backups; more
time when doing searches on the message base; more... everything.

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Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Nick Andriash]

Hello Miguel A. Urech,

On Saturday, March 02 2002 at 07:47 AM PDT, you wrote:

 Right. But they do add to the footprint of the message, don't they?
 That's my point.

Not to an appreciable amount using PGP or GPG, but certainly with S/MIME
because every signed message includes the Public Key as well. That is
one of the drawbacks to using S/MIME.


-- 
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Re: Re[4]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 18:05:20 +0100
Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  More foot print means what ?
 
 More bytes than needed. Longer transmission time no matter how fast it
 is; more storage space required; more time needed for backups; more
 time when doing searches on the message base; more... everything.

You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as you wish, then 
you will get...nothing :-)

I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction, can we stop this thread ?

-- 
syafril
===
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Re[6]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Syafril,

 You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as you wish, then 
you
 will get...nothing :-)

No, I won't do that. But I wish I could set up a filter to just
extract _significant_ text out of messages and leave all superfluous
and redundant stuff out.

 I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction,

Depends on what you consider positive. If we disagree on what
superfluous and redundant means, we may as well disagree on what
positive means.

 can we stop this thread ?

You can set up a filter to throw any further messages on this thread
to your trash bin. ;-)

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

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Re[2]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Miguel A. Urech]

Pete,

 Personal mails, of course, are a totally different thing.

Forgot to say that I agree with this. Same as with business or company
email.

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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Jernej Simoni]

Hello Pete,

02. marec 2002, 20:25:26, you wrote:

P No 48 kB
P posts here saying well said. Yes, there are mailing-lists like that
P :-(

I've seen that, but it's not the worst - some people not only that
they send in HTML, but they also use images for background - nothing
like a How do I do _ in ? one-liner and 60 kB background
image... Or a well-behaved discussion, some messages get pretty long
(but are in plain-text), and then you get a guy saying Don't we have
enough of this already, complete message quoted below and in HTML...

-- 
Jernej Simoncic, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://www2.arnes.si/~sopjsimo/
ICQ: 26266467

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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Ian Petersen]

Syafril,

  You forget the most important (IMO) issue: Unneccessary intros,
  felicitations, quoting, cookies and sigs simply make the actual
  message content harder to find, slower to read and more difficult to
  comprehend. Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this,
  every unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or
  enjoyable.

-- 

 Ian Petersen


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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Pete]

Hello Ian,

Saturday, March 2, 2002, 10:17:49 PM, you wrote:


IP Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this, every
IP unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or
IP enjoyable.

This says it all, really. Thank you Ian for those words.

And thanks Miguel and Jernej :-)


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Pete


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DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Jernej,

On 02 March 2002 at 20:51:29 +0100 (which was 19:51 where I live)
Jernej Simoni wrote in [EMAIL PROTECTED]">mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 complete message quoted below and in HTML...

moderator

This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce
it dead.

Please take it off-list or to TBOT.

Thank you.
/moderator

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
___
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 \ PGP Key ID: 0x929DCDA0 | www: http://www.silverstones.com /

SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2 
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQE8gUItOeQkq5KdzaARAhmyAJ9xb39Q2SP6v/bCIjT3ghKJPg6JMACfaaLf
YJSV5NY8YCmQHrW20RqOeVc=
=LrQA
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Mark,

 This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce
 it dead.

You are not being fair here Mark. We are talking about this list and
the noise in it. Why what we have to say is way off and too long
and the unnecessary introductions, long signatures and all the PGP
stuff are not? Why don't you send them all to TBOT also?

Thanks,

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
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Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Luc]

It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 21:20:43 GMT+ (which was 22:20
where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments
on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a
message)):

 complete message quoted below and in HTML...

MDP moderator

MDP This topic has gone way off / too long and I am forced to pronounce
MDP it dead.

SNIP

MDP Thank you.
MDP /moderator

No, _thank you_ Marck :-)

-- 
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 Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 \|||/
  \\\ - - ///
( @ @ )
  oOOOo---(_)---oOOOo---

  Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

  Thought for the day : Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be
recalled by their maker.

  O-
  (   )
O  ) /
(   ) (_/
 \ (
  \_)


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Re[2]: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Luc,

 It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 21:20:43 GMT+ (which was 22:20
 where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments
 on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a
 message)):

Luc and Mark, isn't this completely unnecessary and way off-topic of
any topic? Come on! Be fare!


  \|||/
   \\\ - - ///
 ( @ @ )
   oOOOo---(_)---oOOOo---
 
   Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195
 
   Thought for the day : Drive carefully. It's not only cars that can be
 recalled by their maker.
 
   O-
   (   )
 O  ) /
 (   ) (_/
  \ (
   \_)

And this. Nice ASCII art perhaps, but n_o_i_s_e in a list like this.

-- 
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Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

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Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Marck D Pearlstone]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hi Luc,

On 02 March 2002 at 23:33:16 +0100 (which was 22:33 where I live) Luc
wrote in mid:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

 No, _thank you_ Marck :-)

Now this is *s* ironic and you're gonna make me feel real bad, I
know, but Luc? Your sig  ahem  it's one of those that breaks
the rules :-.

moderator
Netiquette states that 4-6 lines is enough. Your peeping man-card
looks very good, but spans 18 lines! Any way you can abbreviate it for
use here?

Same for anyone else with signatures longer than 6 lines (excluding
PGP sigs). This is the once-in-a-while reminder.

No more replies on this topic, I thank you.
/moderator

- --
Cheers -- .\\arck D. Pearlstone -- List moderator
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SB! v1.54 Beta/43/iKey1000-5523848F0B1 on Windows 2000 5.0.2195 Service Pack 2
·
-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: GnuPG v1.0.6 (MingW32)

iD8DBQE8gVpaOeQkq5KdzaARAhk/AKCFUo1XiLfrX+KgsCLkb3ApvgU8oQCfSuRv
VPzBkfiFXsayaq715auX4ZQ=
=sD8N
-END PGP SIGNATURE-



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Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Luc]

It was foretold that on 3-3-2002 @ 23:03:52 GMT+ (which was 0:03
where I live) Marck D Pearlstone wrote and spread these wise comments
on DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a
message)):

MDP Now this is *s* ironic and you're gonna make me feel real bad, I
MDP know, but Luc? Your sig  ahem  it's one of those that breaks
MDP the rules :-.

Ooops,

ahem am i feeling stupid LOL

-- 
Best regards,
 Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]

  Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

  Thought for the day : Every child is an artist. The problem is how to
remain an artist once he grows up. -- Pablo Picasso.


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Re: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Luc]

It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 23:47:39 GMT+0100 (which was 23:47
where I live) Miguel A. Urech wrote and spread these wise comments on
DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a
message)):

MAU Luc and Mark, isn't this completely unnecessary and way off-topic of
MAU any topic? Come on! Be fare!

This tread brings up no solutions or tips on a TB! problem, it just
takes up space on the list. The topic may be interesting for some
subscribers but take it to TB! off topic list.

-- 
Best regards,
 Lucmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]


  Using The Bat! v1.53d on Windows NT 5.0 Build 2195

  Thought for the day : He who is always his own counsellor will often
have a fool for his client.


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Re[3]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Dave Conroy]

Hi Miguel,

Saturday, March 2, 2002, 6:54:03 PM, you wrote:

Miguel A. Urech To me, if something is superfluous, it is superfluous whether is is
Miguel A. Urech one or umpteen bytes long.

Well that's fine ... for you! I actually like to see peoples sig,
especially on a List like this where (I assume) people are likely
to be doing interesting and useful things that I might benefit
from. Certainly, on a couple of other Lists I am a member of, I
have found excellent resources and services that I have used just
by clicking on a URL in someone's signature. I think it is fine
so long as someone isn't exploiting other members by, say,
posting sig's with affiliate links (even then it can be a fine
line). So, the issue is one best left to our wise and capable
moderator ;-)
 
With best wishes,

Dave 

--
David Conroy MSW 
Personal Life and Business Coaching World-wide
http://www.e-coaching-only.com  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Member International Coach Federation, ID 1006660.

PGP Key on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_pgp
Instant Messaging on request mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=send_im

Using The Bat! v1.54 Beta/45
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Re[2]: DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message))

[Miguel A. Urech]

Hi Luc,

Marck may have to ban me for replying, but I'll take the risk.

You said: (wait, was it really you? Maybe not, as you are not using
PGP now I can't be sure). Anyway, I think it was you who said:

 This tread brings up no solutions or tips on a TB! problem, it just
 takes up space on the list.

Look Luc, you have to be a bit more coherent on what you say. Please
read the rest.

 It was foretold that on 2-3-2002 @ 23:47:39 GMT+0100 (which was 23:47
 where I live) Miguel A. Urech wrote and spread these wise comments on
 DEAD HORSE (was Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a
 message)):

Nice tip about TB!. Just what I was looking for. I must be blind or
something, I have seen it so many times and it wasn't till now that I
realised it was a tip and a solution about TB. And it doesn't take
much space either.

   Thought for the day : He who is always his own counsellor will often
 have a fool for his client.

Heyyy! That's another handy little tip about TB! Thanks Luc.

And where is your fancy tiny signature, I'm gonna miss it! (Provided I
am not banned, of course)

Marck, do as you think you have to.

-- 
Best regards,

Miguel A. Urech (El Escorial - Spain)
Using The Bat! v1.53d

**
Scanned by  MailScan Content-Security and Anti-Virus Software.
Visit http://www.mwti.net for more info on eScan and MailScan.
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Re: Re[6]: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 19:39:28 +0100
Miguel A. Urech [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  You can set kill filter to restrict POP msg size, set it as lower as
  you wish, then you will get...nothing :-)
 
 No, I won't do that. But I wish I could set up a filter to just
 extract _significant_ text out of messages and leave all superfluous
 and redundant stuff out.

That's it possitive thinking, let's discuss on this direction.
The way our mailer will do in our control, we can do what we want.
Blaming the world is wasting time.
 
  I don't think this discussion is in possitive direction,
 
 Depends on what you consider positive. If we disagree on what
 superfluous and redundant means, we may as well disagree on what
 positive means.

See above.

  can we stop this thread ?
 
 You can set up a filter to throw any further messages on this thread
 to your trash bin. ;-)

Oh I can do more than that if I want. As List Administrator of this list
I can banned posting base on subject or other criterion at Listserver
level, and as postmaster for this host I can banned you in SMTP Level. But it is not 
my attitude to blame the world, but if you need prove that I can banned your domain, 
tell me than I will do that right away.


-- 
syafril
===
Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Re: Signatures on mailing lists (was: TB won't open a message)

[Syafril Hermansyah]

On Sat, 2 Mar 2002 21:17:49 +0100
Ian Petersen [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   You forget the most important (IMO) issue: Unneccessary intros,
   felicitations, quoting, cookies and sigs simply make the actual
   message content harder to find, slower to read and more difficult to
   comprehend. Especially on high volume mailing-lists, such as this,
   every unneccessary byte makes the list just a little less useful or
   enjoyable.

Actually I am agree with you, the message content is more important than greetings, 
sigs and others. From the archive you may seen that we have discuss about that, and in 
one occasion I even recommend not to use TO : Real-Name$list-address format nor 
Initial quote tag (IP) on *public list* NOT on TB! list.

One of the power of TB! is the template creation, this making TB! user to use his 
creation to expand the possibilities, please let them to exersize that on his 
community. For others, treat this as a chalange and ask and discuss this on this list 
how to avoid this situation, because maybe we meet this situation on other public list 
someday. 

Please be open mind and be gentle, don't blame the world, by that we will enrich our 
experience each others.


-- 
syafril
===
Syafril Hermansyah[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Mailing Lists

[Joseph N.]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

I seem to recall having asked this question before, and someone
replied with a workaround, but I cannot find the answer.  So pardon me
if this looks familiar.

I'm trying to use The Bat! for a distribution (mailing) list, but it
doesn't seem to work well in that capacity.  I have a list of many
names, in a format such as:

Afirstname Alastname A.email.address, Bfirstname Blastname
B.email.address, Cfirstname Clastname C.email.address, etc.

It appears to me that there are only two ways to proceed:  (1) each of
these names would have to parsed and inserted into the appropriate
fields of a separate record in a grouped entry in the addressbook; or
(2) create a new addressbook and somehow import the list.

Can anyone think of another option, or are those the only ways to go?
And, for the second option, can anyone think of a way to do the
import?

TIA

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5i

iQA/AwUBO7H0h+H2IGJNcAawEQItwwCfSMMm0u5dzKClKw1x930AqjJsTwUAoOuf
Z5+rEHPuXKVqwuaDhH7oVAfP
=hEab
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Re: Mailing Lists

[Roelof Otten]

Hallo Joseph,

JN I'm trying to use The Bat! for a distribution (mailing) list, but it
JN doesn't seem to work well in that capacity.  I have a list of many
JN names, in a format such as:

JN Afirstname Alastname A.email.address, Bfirstname Blastname
JN B.email.address, Cfirstname Clastname C.email.address, etc.

In your previous posting you stated that you still had a message with
all addresses included in the To: header and I gave you this work
around:

 Press CtrlShiftF (You create a filter) = Choose Edit
 = Check  Manual Only = Choose Actions tab = scroll down =
 Check Add address(es) to Address Book = Choose recipients in the
 now available pull down menu = Choose the group you want all of them
 in.

 After creating this filter, you need to run it.
 Select the folder = right mouse button = Re-filter messages =
 Check Manual filters only = Press OK

 In case you don't have a message with all addresses, but only your
 addresslist, you have to 'enhance' the above method. ;-)
 Open your addresslist with a text-editor. Wipe all 
 Insert at the beginning of the list %to
 Add at the end of the list 
 Continue with a line like This is a test message
 Save this file as plain ascii under the name c:\test.tpl
 Now from the commandline start The Bat! with the following line:

  correctpath\thebat.exe/mailu=youraccount;t=c:\test.tpl

Insert for coorectpath the correct path to thebat.exe
Insert for youraccount the name of your account under TB

TB creates a message with all of your intended recipients. After
you've done this, you can now continue with the filtering method
mentioned above.
Good luck.

-- 
Groetjes, Roelof


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Re[6]: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[David Elliott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Greetings andrew

On 07 June 2001 at 23:22:01 +0100 (which was 23:22 where I live) andrew
wrote

 While there I found that really useful script for stripping pgp sigs and
 yahoo sigs from your mails.

I use something like that as well.

 I'm sorry but I've reached my programming limit (actually that probably
 happened as soon as i sat down).

I feel that frequently.

 The script works perfectly I just used it to reply to your mail and it's
 automatically stripped out your sig, pgp and list details which is sooo
 helpful (not that your sig isn't wonderful, you understand).

It helps to keep to the list rules. (and it is a good sig ^_^)

 But I subscribe to Yahoo! groups and wanted to get rid of their little
 blurb - i thought this script could do this?

 ... 

 %quotes=%SETPATTREGEXP=(?is)(\n*-BEGIN PGP 
SIGNED.*?\n(Hash:.*?\n)?\s*)?(.*?)(^(-*?\s*?--\s*\n|_{40,}\s*\n|-BEGIN PGP
 
SIGNATURE.*s?\n|-+\s*.*roups.*~-~.*-*_-)|\z)%REGEXPBLINDMATCH=%text%SUBPATT=3

I am not much of a regex expert but you need it to look for something
unique on the first line and then put that into the regex. The regex that I
use is below with a bit added to match [To unsubscribe from this group]

one line
%Quotes=%SETPATTREGEXP=(?is)(.*?)(^(-*?\s*?--\s*\n|-BEGIN PGP 
SIGNATURE|-Original Message| -Original)|To unsubscribe from this 
group|\z)%REGEXPBLINDMATCH=%text%SUBPATT=1
/one line

My regex matches from the beginning of the text not from
[-BEGIN PGP SIGNED]

There is also something called [CUT] that can strip out things like this
from the incomming message but I feel that this can be dangerous.

- From memory you have to set up a filter to export these messages then call
the exe it then cuts out the bits you don't want and you have to import the
messages. (I could easily be wrong)

Someone on one of TB list made this one.

- --
 BBFN, ___
  David   |MUA- The 1, The Only, The Bat! | E-mailaholics |
 _|  Win 2K Adv Ser 5.0.2195 SP2  | International |
| He who dies with the most TAGLINES dies!|

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP 6.5.8ckt (Build 05)
Comment: PGP Signed, sealed, delivered.

iQA/AwUBOyB1z/mK8eZlD0U0EQKgrgCgslDLxK++x3CQ/D1I0PzK0x/YwqwAnisH
OI7Gihvs1YM/E2xBUwSAelVR
=ohKW
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[andrew]

Hi thebat,

I recently joined a yahoo list and the subject lines always has a first
, long, prefix (takes up all subject area in bat) did we say there was
a way to fix this?

ie.

[CM-mod] FW: [cloudmakers] OT: Mile High Cloudmakers (MHCM) first meeting - Friday, 
June 8 - Last call...

[CM-mod] FW: [cloudmakers] -- this bit is way to long

thanks

Andrew

-- 
thanks,
 andrew  mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]   
http://at.omic.co.uk

Using The Bat! v1.51 on Windows 98 4.10 Build   A



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Re: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[Dwight A Corrin]

On Thursday, June 07, 2001, 1:43:47 PM, andrew wrote:

 I recently joined a yahoo list and the subject lines always has a
 first , long, prefix (takes up all subject area in bat) did we say
 there was a way to fix this?


The list probably has a command which will get you the subject line
without adding the prefix.

-- 
Dwight A. Corrin
P O Box 47828
Wichita KS 67201-7828
316.263.9706  fax 316.263.6385
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Using The Bat! 1.53 RC/1 on Windows 98 version 4,90

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Re: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[Shauna Scott]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

Hello All, 


 The list probably has a command which will get you the subject line
 without adding the prefix.

DAC Well, I take that back.  I just looked, in hopes of removing such a
DAC prefix in a yahoo group I'm in (I get TBOT digest so no such problem
DAC there), and didn't find such an option.  I know that one has choices
DAC on other lists to which I subscribe.

In yahoo groups, that option is set by the moderator. Some people find
it useful (for filtering, etc.), others find it annoying. It would be
better if the users could set it themselves, although that has
problems too. But the moderator can specify what the subject tag is -
maybe you can get in touch with him or her and ask him/her to change
it to something shorter.

Best Regards
Shauna

- -- 

Shauna Scott
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

Using The Bat! Version 1.53 RC/1 on Windows 2000, SP1

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: 6.5.8ckt build 05 http://www.ipgpp.com/
Comment: Key ID 0x365A6190
Comment: KeyID: 0x365A6190

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Xp2wwB2SgBV19qvZ52S9pv/b
=l++L
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Re[3]: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[andrew]

Hi Dwight,

thanks for checking anyway anyone else have a plan?

Thursday, June 07, 2001, 8:48:33 PM, you wrote:


 I recently joined a yahoo list and the subject lines always has a
 first , long, prefix (takes up all subject area in bat) did we say
 there was a way to fix this?


 The list probably has a command which will get you the subject line
 without adding the prefix.

DAC Well, I take that back.  I just looked, in hopes of removing such a
DAC prefix in a yahoo group I'm in (I get TBOT digest so no such problem
DAC there), and didn't find such an option.  I know that one has choices
DAC on other lists to which I subscribe.




-- 
thanks,
 andrewmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
http://at.omic.co.uk



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Re: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[Melissa]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thursday, June 07, 2001, at 12:48:33 PM PDT, Dwight A Corrin wrote:

Previously:

 The list probably has a command which will get you the subject line
 without adding the prefix.

And now:

DAC Well, I take that back. I just looked, in hopes of removing such a
DAC prefix in a yahoo group I'm in (I get TBOT digest so no such problem
DAC there), and didn't find such an option. I know that one has choices
DAC on other lists to which I subscribe.

I'm subscribed to a couple of YahooGroups lists, and the choice of
subject line blurb is up to the owner of the list - not, as far as I
know - a choice of those merely subscribed to the list.

To Andrew:  If it's a problem, perhaps ask the list owner about changing
the preference.

Melissa
- -- 
PGP public keys:
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]?subject=PGP_Keys_2Body=Please%20send%20keys

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP Personal Security 7.0.3

iQA/AwUBOx/f7EYOB3eaKL/6EQLowQCgipbPtXySJU8yWMFcXBdABkLtBsYAoPNt
wPyck/x5M9KAny2sAKfhNBiM
=wTD9
-END PGP SIGNATURE-


_
Do You Yahoo!?
Get your free @yahoo.com address at http://mail.yahoo.com

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Re: getting rid of the first blrub in subject lines from mailing lists

[A Curtis Martin]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

On Thu, 7 Jun 2001 23:22:01 +0100, andrew graced us with these comments:

a While there I found that really useful script for stripping pgp sigs
a and yahoo sigs from your mails. I'm sorry but I've reached my
a programming limit (actually that probably happened as soon as i sat
a down). The script works perfectly I just used it to reply to your mail
a and it's automatically stripped out your sig, pgp and list details
a which is sooo helpful (not that your sig isn't wonderful, you
a understand).

a But I subscribe to Yahoo! groups and wanted to get rid of their little
a blurb - i thought this script could do this?

The regex macro will not help because it will only process mail that is
already received for replies, forwarding etc.

What you wish to do is edit the headers of incoming messages. The only way
you'd be able to do this is to run an external program. A local POP server
with filtering abilities would do it. My local POP server gives me this
ability so I can do exactly what you wish with my setup by setting up a
filter.

- --
A. Curtis Martin  ••  List Moderator (and fellow registered end-user)
Using The Bat! (v1.53 RC/2) [OS: Windows 2000 (Service Pack 2)]
 -
'Oxymoron: Sergeant Major.'

-BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-
Version: PGP Cyber-Knights Templar 6.5.8ckt (build 06)
Comment: Public Key available at http://key.ac-martin.com

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1GaUy5J8inCvLydekA/EYBii
=ts0T
-END PGP SIGNATURE-

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