I think that this link hilights the issue.
http://vcl.ncsu.edu/news/general-announcements/new-vcl-website-launched
The project at NCSU is sen as being powered by the NC State Computing
Platform. There is clearly more of a tie between the name of the
project and its roots. Quite honestly, t
On Mar 6, 2009, at 12:07 PM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
Kevan writes:
...
Perhaps an example would be useful.
There are multiple cases where Open Source projects have moved to
Apache and maintained their name. For example, both OpenEJB and
ActiveMQ were Codehaus projects. They both entered Apach
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Henry beat me to a response. I'll only add that we'll probably be moving any
documentation content currently under vcl.ncsu.edu that is not specific to
the ASF VCL install at NCSU to ASF VCL websites.
Josh
On Fri March 6 2009 3:07:17 pm Henry E Sc
On Mar 6, 2009, at 11:03 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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On Fri March 6 2009 1:09:20 pm Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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On Fri March 6 2009 9:37:03 am Alan D. Cabrera
Kevan writes:
> ...
> Perhaps an example would be useful.
>
> There are multiple cases where Open Source projects have moved to
> Apache and maintained their name. For example, both OpenEJB and
> ActiveMQ were Codehaus projects. They both entered Apache Incubator.
> There was a period of ti
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On Fri March 6 2009 2:39:42 pm Henry E Schaffer wrote:
> I share in Josh's puzzlement. Since we don't have and never have had
> a VCL Department, do we need to start one and then close it down?
>
> What we have is software which we call "VCL", and
On Mar 6, 2009, at 10:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
I'm sorry, I'm just not understanding what you're saying - I need
you to
restate it using different wording rather than just repeating
yourself. I
don't understand the naming conflict between ASF VCL and NCSU's
install of
VCL (keep in mi
I share in Josh's puzzlement. Since we don't have and never have had
a VCL Department, do we need to start one and then close it down?
What we have is software which we call "VCL", and this is reflected in
the documentation and the URL to use our production system (vcl.ncsu.edu).
At NC S
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On Fri March 6 2009 1:09:20 pm Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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> >
> > On Fri March 6 2009 9:37:03 am Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> > So what you are saying
On Mar 6, 2009, at 7:14 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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On Fri March 6 2009 9:37:03 am Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
So what you are saying is that it doesn't matter what the name,
either formal or common, AFS rules require a different name?
Correct, our proj
names we considered was VCloud -- Virtual Cloud as in
> >>> cloud of
> >>> clouds. Would VCloud be an acceptable ASF name?
> >>
> >> VCloud might be fine. Anything other than VCL. However, once it's
> >> understood that the name has to change, it
decide on the new name.
Regards,
Alan
Sam
-Original Message-
From: Alan D. Cabrera [mailto:l...@toolazydogs.com]
Sent: Tuesday, March 03, 2009 12:17 AM
To: vcl-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: VCL, is this name kosher?
On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:31 PM, sam averitt wrote:
A simple suggestion on the
n acceptable ASF name?
>
> VCloud might be fine. Anything other than VCL. However, once it's
> understood that the name has to change, it's the ASF community that
> gets to decide on the new name.
>
>
> Regards,
> Alan
>
> > Sam
> >
> >
, March 03, 2009 12:17 AM
To: vcl-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: VCL, is this name kosher?
On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:31 PM, sam averitt wrote:
A simple suggestion on the name - that VCL be "transferred" to
Apache.org
and become the official project name. Current users of VCL already
e: VCL, is this name kosher?
On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:31 PM, sam averitt wrote:
> A simple suggestion on the name - that VCL be "transferred" to
> Apache.org
> and become the official project name. Current users of VCL already
> wrap
> their own identity around VCL.
On Mar 2, 2009, at 6:31 PM, sam averitt wrote:
A simple suggestion on the name - that VCL be "transferred" to
Apache.org
and become the official project name. Current users of VCL already
wrap
their own identity around VCL. NC State would/could still use the
qualified
name NCSU VCL or NC S
ge-
From: Alan D. Cabrera [mailto:l...@toolazydogs.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 26, 2009 11:47 PM
To: vcl-dev@incubator.apache.org
Subject: Re: VCL, is this name kosher?
On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
> We've had lots of points of view, perhaps showing th
On Feb 25, 2009, at 12:51 PM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
We've had lots of points of view, perhaps showing that we have a
diversity of starting points and understandings.
Is there an Apache Foundation doc (beyond the naming guidelines) that
gives us a common starting point?
Other than this
h
We've had lots of points of view, perhaps showing that we have a
diversity of starting points and understandings.
Is there an Apache Foundation doc (beyond the naming guidelines) that
gives us a common starting point?
--
--henry schaffer
On Feb 24, 2009, at 6:53 AM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
John writes:
Given Alan's assessment below, there appears to be an impasse without
changing the project name.
What impasse?
Alan is quoting Matt - who seems to say that if NC State does not
have
a separate project - and is just poweri
On Feb 24, 2009, at 7:12 AM, John Bass wrote:
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Henry E Schaffer
wrote:
John writes:
Given Alan's assessment below, there appears to be an impasse
without
changing the project name.
What impasse?
The impasse (possibly a poor word choice) is formed by
On Tue, Feb 24, 2009 at 9:53 AM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
> John writes:
> > Given Alan's assessment below, there appears to be an impasse without
> > changing the project name.
>
> What impasse?
The impasse (possibly a poor word choice) is formed by an intersection of
the following:
- Matt's a
John writes:
> Given Alan's assessment below, there appears to be an impasse without
> changing the project name.
What impasse?
Alan is quoting Matt - who seems to say that if NC State does not have
a separate project - and is just powering its production with Apache VCL
(and says so) that s
enter builder
- cloudseed
- rainmaker
John Bass
john_b...@ncsu.edu
www.cnl.ncsu.edu
(919) 515-0154
*From: *"Alan D. Cabrera"
>
> *Date: *February 22, 2009 10:54:48 AM EST
> *To: *vcl-...@incubator.apache.org
> *Subject: **Re: VCL, is this name kosher?*
> *Reply-To: *vcl-...@in
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Josh,
The real challenge in all of this is making sure that you are wearing
the correct hat. The ASF does not recognize corporations (or
universities) as such with exception to code grant provided by them.
The ASF looks at this project as a s
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I'm wearing my NCSU hat while writing this email.
NCSU is absolutely doing #2 and actively making an effort to *not* do #1.
I just realized that some of the confusion is probably coming from content at
the vcl.ncsu.edu website. There is a lot of in
The VCL team has built a wonderful product and it's admirable that
they wish to move the project to ASF. They have a lot to be proud of
and I agree it's understandable why they would wish to retain the VCL
name.
On Feb 21, 2009, at 2:01 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
2. NCSU consumes the projec
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From my vantage point I see a few things going on. First, there is a
strong affiliation between the developers of Apache VCL with their
roots at NCSU. Makes sense as that was the genesis of the project and
I think many of those involved are st
Me three.
Steve
Brian Bouterse wrote:
I like this idea also for the same reasons John mentions.
Brian
Brian Bouterse
Secure Open Systems Initiative
919.698.8796
On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:12 AM, John Bass wrote:
For what it's worth, I like Josh's idea for several reasons:
- production ncsu
You are confusing the installation with the department. To be sure
NCSU could use Apache VCL, even install and use it. However, having
the progenitor keep its name, VCL, causes a conflict that needs to be
resolved.
Regards,
Alan
On Feb 19, 2009, at 7:51 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
-
As do I. NCSU's implementation of VCL is not a separate product. A similar
product with the same name isn't being used elsewhere. The move of VCL from
NCSU to ASF has been well-publicized.
It seems to me that the naming guidelines make a stronger argument supporting
the use of VCL as the pr
I like this idea also for the same reasons John mentions.
Brian
Brian Bouterse
Secure Open Systems Initiative
919.698.8796
On Feb 19, 2009, at 11:12 AM, John Bass wrote:
For what it's worth, I like Josh's idea for several reasons:
- production ncsu service runs from the apache code
- its
For what it's worth, I like Josh's idea for several reasons:
- production ncsu service runs from the apache code
- its a great way for ncsu to help promote the apache project
- it helps maintain the community that has been building over the years
- appears to me (a newbee) to support the apache nam
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But what does it mean to "stop using theirs"? Does it mean the letters "VCL"
cannot appear anywhere at their site? (I feel really weird saying "their"
since I'm employed at NCSU, but I'll try to stick to saying this with my ASF
hat on).
I feel re
As Matt pointed out there needs to be a distinction between this ASF
project and its original progenitor, NCSU VCL. It's quite simple,
either we change our name or they stop using theirs.
Regards,
Alan
On Jan 6, 2009, at 8:18 AM, Josh Thompson wrote:
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Ha
On Feb 19, 2009, at 7:03 AM, Brian Bouterse wrote:
Within the world of apache nothing. Do all acronyms drip with
meaning in Apache or do some just pick a few letters?
You're being coy with me. It's obvious that the meaning of VCL is the
same as what NCSU uses.
There hasn't been a lot o
Within the world of apache nothing. Do all acronyms drip with meaning
in Apache or do some just pick a few letters?
There hasn't been a lot of discussion on this topic, yet it needs
resolution. When does this get put to vote?
Best,
Brian
Brian Bouterse
Secure Open Systems Initiative
919.
What does VCL stand for then?
Regards,
Alan
On Feb 17, 2009, at 7:35 AM, Brian Bouterse wrote:
I wanted to revisit this thread, because no conclusion was reached.
The current status is that after much discussion on the list, no
name changes were proposed, or ratified.
There are ASF nami
I wanted to revisit this thread, because no conclusion was reached.
The current status is that after much discussion on the list, no name
changes were proposed, or ratified.
There are ASF naming guidelines located here. Personally, I interpret
this as a non-issue because the NCSU service
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Maybe we should look at this from a different angle - is there anything that
*can* happen for the name to continue as "VCL" at ASF?
Josh
On Tuesday January 06, 2009, Alan D. Cabrera wrote:
> Thanks for your comments Matt.
>
> Well, it's after the ho
Thanks for your comments Matt.
Well, it's after the holidays. Time to pick this thread back up.
This issue needs to be resolved before we graduate.
Regards,
Alan
On Dec 19, 2008, at 1:01 PM, Matt Hogstrom wrote:
Alan,
Thanks for starting the discussion about this. I think there are a
Alan,
Thanks for starting the discussion about this. I think there are a
few different issues so I'll try to separate them. The issues we need
to address is the trademark of VCL and the other is the identity of
the community. Perhaps we should talk about these in reverse order.
First i
On Dec 19, 2008, at 7:19 AM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
Alan writes:
...
If VCL is a trademark owned by NCSU then they would have to assign
the
trademark to the ASF or we would have to change our project's name.
OK - I think we've reached a very clear question to be resolved. I
think here'
Alan writes:
> ...
> If VCL is a trademark owned by NCSU then they would have to assign the
> trademark to the ASF or we would have to change our project's name.
OK - I think we've reached a very clear question to be resolved. I
think here's what needs to be resolved (at least in my mind):
On Dec 18, 2008, at 7:22 PM, Henry E Schaffer wrote:
Alan D. Cabrera writes:
On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:
...
I do have some questions as to why we can't keep the name.
Something I don't understand is that if NCSU were to completely
stop doing
anything with VCL other t
Alan D. Cabrera writes:
> On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:
> ...
>>I do have some questions as to why we can't keep the name.
>>
>>Something I don't understand is that if NCSU were to completely stop doing
>>anything with VCL other than developing it at ASF, and then were to set u
On Dec 18, 2008, at 1:10 PM, Josh Thompson wrote:
Thanks for the link; we'll look through the information. Most of us
will be
out the next 2 weeks; so, in order to have enough discussion for
something as
big as the name of the project, we'll need to wait until we get back
in
January to c
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Alan,
Thanks for the link; we'll look through the information. Most of us will be
out the next 2 weeks; so, in order to have enough discussion for something as
big as the name of the project, we'll need to wait until we get back in
January to cons
http://www.apache.org/dev/project-names.html
The mere fact that the origin of the project, NCSU, will continue to
use the VCL name for the exact same product means we have to find a
new name.
Regards,
Alan
On Dec 18, 2008, at 9:11 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:
We were under the impression the
We were under the impression the apache project name could also be called
vcl, which why we stuck with it.
We're fine to rename it in the incubator, definitely better to do it sooner
than later, but could you let us know why we'd have to? Are there any
policies or docs you can point us at?
A
I think the CLA relates to the code. As for the name, if we use it I
think NCSU has to stop using it. Maybe it's a good idea to think of
a new name.
Regards,
Alan
On Dec 18, 2008, at 6:24 AM, Aaron Peeler wrote:
I don't think so. With our NCSU legal signing the corp. CLA, that
pretty
I don't think so. With our NCSU legal signing the corp. CLA, that pretty
much approved the use of the name for the ASF project.
It's what we've used for the last 4+ years and what many other schools know
it as.
Aaron
--On December 17, 2008 7:21:41 PM -0800 "Alan D. Cabrera"
wrote:
Isn't
Isn't this the same name that's at NCSU? Will that be a problem?
Regards,
Alan
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