to it, we
usually need a newer version than is available in the Python release we're
using.
If Python had and used a packaging system, like eggs, this wouldn't be
necessary.
Someday.
Jim
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Update of /cvs-repository/Packages/ZODB
In directory cvs.zope.org:/tmp/cvs-serv24275/ZODB
Modified Files:
Tag: jim-test-storage
component.xml config.py
Log Message:
First cut at as-of option to open to a specific point in time.
=== Packages/ZODB/component.xml 1.10.6.3
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Wednesday 18 January 2006 19:09, Jim Fulton wrote:
You know my position concerning the repository and the release; I'd
prefer them to be kept as similar as possible to simplify the release
process. I hope we can go in that direction. It also makes things more
they don't and may never
use. I want Five/Zope2 to not *have* to include packages they don't
need just because we've created monoliths. I especially don't want
to release experimental code through Five/Zope2 just because we don't
have our repository and/or packaging in order.
Jim
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less. I think a more powerful
packaging architecture will make it easeir to include what we want.
Deciding what we want is another issue.
Jim
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Martijn Faassen wrote:
...
What if we can create in SVN the equivalent of what would be an egg +
its dependencies for checkout, using externals? I know Jim said he
doesn't want to use externals, but I'm thinking in that direction. You'd
have one SVN directory for each egg, which then contains
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Thursday 19 January 2006 07:00, Jim Fulton wrote:
I feel like an old record, but please
let's keep the development process as simple as possible. I rather make
some concessions to the packaging and dependency system than spending
more time developing.
Perhaps
will be formed during this next release cycle,
I think this is a good time to take stock and think about how to move
forward,
Jim
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Sidnei da Silva wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 07:36:35AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
| And then there are the Windows releases. Making Zope 2 windows releases
| is very painful and there don't seem to be many people willing to help.
| We've avoided the pain for Zope 3 by being less ambitious. We
that *I* can do it. This means that the process should
be simple and well documented enough that someone like me can follow it
without thinking. Thinking is hard.
Jim
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it will be more important
to get the feature releases right.
Of course, this required commitment from the community.
Jim
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Sidnei da Silva wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 10:27:25AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
| The installers do not require much Windows expertise. In fact, they
| require a lot of 'makefile' expertise right now, and some Inno Setup
| expertise, not much else.
|
| Sorry, Inno Setup is a windows
Sidnei da Silva wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 10:45:20AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
| People up to now have come up with systems like this that they thought were
| automated enough. That's why we don't have a 2.9 release for windows.
What about we turn that around. How would you describe
distutils to MSI.
Except that the same sort of problems occurred with 2.8.
Jim
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Sidnei da Silva wrote:
On Wed, Jan 18, 2006 at 11:46:33AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
| Sidnei da Silva wrote:
| ...
| | As I said before, the fact that we don't have a windows release
| | is proof that the process isn't automated enough.
|
| That's not a proof that the process is not automated
.
The code that Five is using will still be available, but it will be
somewhere else (with necessary backward compatibility hacks).
Jim
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-- and development is great. I think
eggs are a lot farther along that zpkg. (Eggs weren't around when we started
zpkg.) If eggs work out, as I hope they will, I'd like to stop work on
zpkg and just use eggs.
Jim
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---BeginMessage---
I have a quite complicated data collection and reporting system based
away from zLOG, as we want to leverage
the standard logging framework.
Jim
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Andreas Jung wrote:
--On 16. Januar 2006 13:08:31 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
I'll just note that:
- I agree with your point about deprecation warnings. IOW
we should not check in new deprecation warnings on the trunk
that cause warnings to be output when running
Tim Peters wrote:
[Florent Guillaume]
Why not use the tag you just made?
ZODB svn://svn.zope.org/repos/main/ZODB/tags/3.6.0/src/ZODB
etc.
Ask Jim ;-)
I don't like using tags in externals. Each time an external is changed to a
tag,
svn creates .OLD directories and gets a new version
the database, like
is done for Python Scripts recompiling for instance. Or I can call it
myself in my upgrade procedures on the exact objects I know will need
updates.
Perhaps we can use the generations framework.
Jim
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(using -r option). Jim suggested this since I was running out of time
before x-mas (and now being on vacation with limited internet access).
Yup, it was better to get a 2.9 beta in December based on a specific revision
of 3.2 that tro wait until January to get a 2.9 based on a 3.2 beta, especially
of the
project.
Jim
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and resulted in a 1.1
GB file
- loading the file into a new fsfs-based repo took 31 minutes. The
resulting repository is 662 MB in size. As Tim predicted, this is
smaller then the BDB-based repo, which is 711 MB now.
Jim, if you want to take a look at this new repository, it's under /
root
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 23 Dec 2005, at 14:57, Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 23 Dec 2005, at 14:48, Jim Fulton wrote:
Jim, if you want to take a look at this new repository, it's under
/ root/fakesvn.
I moved this to the normal repos area and changed the group to
the zopesvn, so
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
Martijn Faassen wrote:
[snip]
I'll note, FWIW, that we don't do installs from Zope 3 checkouts.
Yes, this is understood.
I think it's worth asking whether this is an important requirement.
Perhaps more generally, how important
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
I'll note that, as a developer, I have never done this and probably
never would want to do this.
How do you test 'mkzopeinstance' then? Build a release first? That's
rather cumbersome. Anyway, small point.
In Zope3, I use bin/mkzopeinstance
made including Zope 3 in Zope 2 a real mess.
Jim
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to make releases. It hasn't really
been adequately rethought to support checkouts. As a result we've
had to make some compromises.
Jim
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but it evidently
didn't register for me.
The tar ball looks the same (wrt configure/make/make install).
It's the checkout that has changed.
Jim
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Martijn Faassen wrote:
We should probably be holding this discussion later,
not right now, though.
Please. :)
Jim
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I'm going to go ahead with this update in hopes of resolving some
windows client problems that may be confounding our efforts to
run windows tests with buildbot.
Jim
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 22:08, Jim Fulton wrote:
Sounds good. I'll announce that the repo will be down
Jim Fulton wrote:
I'm going to go ahead with this update in hopes of resolving some
windows client problems that may be confounding our efforts to
run windows tests with buildbot.
Done
Jim
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Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
Does that mean you're doing it? All necessary RPMs are on the box at /
root/svnupgrade/. Otherwise I can do it tomorrow morning (about 5 AM EST)
Yes, already done. They are also available in my home directory. :)
Jim
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it work. Question is, is it worth
delaying the release? I don't know.
If we did stay with the current situation, we'd need to cleanup the
documentation so that a developer can easily reminder herself
what she can do and how to do it.
Jim
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Andrew Sawyers wrote:
On Wed, 2005-12-21 at 13:47 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
I'll note, FWIW, that we don't do installs from Zope 3 checkouts.
I think it's worth asking whether this is an important requirement.
If it is, then we should make it work. Question is, is it worth
delaying
an unreleased version of Zope
because they need some feature or bug fix that hasn't been
released yet.
Can anyone think of other use cases?
Jim
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Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 22:08, Jim Fulton wrote:
Sounds good. I'll announce that the repo will be down for maintenance
on the 25th,
Just FYI, during a dry run this morning I hit an obvious snag: The
subversion packages on svn.zope.org are so ancient that they cannot
is more pronounced
for ZEO storage servers.
Production Zope and ZEO servers should run with -O IMO.
Jim
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Sidnei da Silva wrote:
On Mon, Dec 19, 2005 at 06:50:19AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
| There is a drawback: Debugging becomes a lot harder and sometimes
| impossible because you get no or faulty line number information in
| tracebacks and when using pdb.
|
| That isn't true. Line numbers
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 12:23, Andreas Jung wrote:
I get always connection closed unexpectedly when using svn update.
Andreas
That %$£@ BerkeleyDB backend was geborken again. svnadmin recover fixed
it.
Thanks!
Jim
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process. Even a simple option to run
tests by number would probably help a lot, making a manual binary search
pretty easy.)
Jim
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we can
get all dicts to be sorted.
Jim
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instead of on
the keys themselves.
That wouldn't be bad.
Anyway, I guess we should make an issue of this on python-dev,
so that either we can count on documented behavior
going forward or so that we write our pwn pretty printer for
use in doctest.
Jim
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Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jim Fulton wrote:
Tim Peters wrote:
...
Well, I understand why that works, but it's not part of pprint's
contract either.
What contract. :)
The documented behavior, e.g. from '$ pydoc pprint' or the online
equivalent
that
this will take several hours. This involves scheduled downtime,
testing, dealing with the inevitable misshap
I expect the Zope Foundation will probably establish a new repository.
That would probably be a good time to make the switch.
Jim
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Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 20:02, Jim Fulton wrote:
Rocky Burt wrote:
Perhaps the backend should be switched from bdb to fsfs (native
subversion backend type) ? I know it does away with a lot of these,
issues.
Yup, when someone has time to do it. AFAIK, it will involve
Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 21:27, Jim Fulton wrote:
IMHO the process is straightforward and easy (except for the time
it will take),
That fact alone adds complication, as that down time needs to be
scheduled.
OK, well, the only complication is setting a date really
the cats and come up with
a time frame where this can be done, and communicating it. I'll do
everything on the technical side. Sound like a deal?
P.S.: The best time for me is between 12/25 and 12/30 since I'll be at
home in Germany.
Pick a date and I'll propose it.
Jim
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Jens Vagelpohl wrote:
On 19 Dec 2005, at 21:44, Jim Fulton wrote:
Umh, more like force-volunteered now ;) Which is fine, but in
return I'd like someone else (maybe you?) to herd the cats and
come up with a time frame where this can be done, and
communicating it. I'll do everything
Jens Vagelpihl has graciously offered to convert the subversion
repository to use a file-system back end.
The repsository will be inaccessable for some portion of
December 25.
Jim
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Jim Fulton wrote:
Jens Vagelpihl has graciously offered to convert the subversion
repository to use a file-system back end.
Jim groans, That's Jens Vagelpohl.
Thanks again Jens!
Jim
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to it. :(
More specific would be helpful. Is a custom C type involved here?
Jim
Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Pascal Peregrina wrote:
Ok, in case anyone is interested, this nasty code change made it :
In Zope-2.8.4-final/lib/python/ZODB/serialize.py:
Change
Martijn Faassen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
I forgot a very important need:
- Common approach to Unicode
In particular, In Zope 3, all text is stored and managed as Unicode.
The publisher decodes request data and encodes response data. The vast
majority of application and library code can
?
import transaction
...
transaction.commit()
transaction.abort()
Although I think the old way should still work. If it doesn't,
please report a bug.
Jim
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or CMFPlone.transaction.
I'm dispayed to hear this. :( The old use of __builtins__.get_transaction
should be deprecated and supported for a period of time. If it isn't, then this
is *definately* a bug.
Jim
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Andreas Jung wrote:
--On 11. Dezember 2005 12:28:04 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Stefan H. Holek wrote:
import transaction
transaction.get()
transaction.commit()
transaction.abort()
transaction.savepoint()
This works since 2.8, but not in 2.7. Nearly every project has come
Tim Peters wrote:
[Jim Fulton]
...
BTW, This is a good example for why I want to start using time-based
deprecation.
In a world with time-based releases, is there a difference?
Yes, because release numbers aren't very helpful when software
is used by many applications. For example, I
. (This is even true for English. Generally,
users prefer to see text sorted without regard to case.)
A proposal to address this problem is here:
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/LocaleSpecificTextCollation
Comments are welcome.
Jim
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simplifications and allowed us to avoid common pitfals from
mixing Unicode and encoded text.
We need to migrate Zope 2 to use a similar strategy. We need volunteers
to brainstorm how this can be done and make one or more proposals.
This is likely a prerequisite for finishing the publisher and ZPT
work.
Jim
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on a tag and zope.app/PACKAGE.cfg should
also be
modified to include version.txt *on the tag*. Jim did the latter on the Zope
3.2 branch.
Yeah, I was trying to minimize the amount of work done on a tag. It didn't
occur to
me that this would affect Z2. :( In the future, we need to come up
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
This is a very recent problem and a result of Jim's inconsistent
handling of the version.txt matter yesterday.
http://dev.zope.org/Zope3/MakingARelease says that
zope.app/version.txt should be created on a tag and
zope.app/PACKAGE.cfg
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
...
Buildbot is awesome and Stephan's suggestion is a excellent one.
However, I consider buildbot a good safety-belt, not more. It's
definitely not an excuse for not testing things properly in a local
sandbox before checking in.
There's
Andreas Jung wrote:
Just to let you know: Zope 2.9 b1 will be released together with Zope
3.2 b1
this Wednesday..so the last changes and fixes should be done until
Wednesday morning.
I'm going to try to get a 3.2 beta out today.
Jim
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Zope 3 seems to ve ready for a beta release. Does that mean Zope 2
is ready?
Jim
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which will give us
at least some consequence.
Jim
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Christian Theune wrote:
Hi,
Am Freitag, den 02.12.2005, 10:03 -0500 schrieb Jim Fulton:
Christian Theune wrote:
Am Mittwoch, den 30.11.2005, 15:52 +0100 schrieb Philipp von
Weitershausen:
From where I'm standing, with Zope 2.8.4 it's as safe as with Zope 2.9
(which actually *requires
and applications
being built by Canonical.
Jim
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Roger Ineichen wrote:
Hi Jim
[...]
Roger Ineichen wrote:
...
And please stop telling that there will be a migration path
for somthing.
Please stop saying that there won't be.
I guess there will never be such a path.
I guess differently.
Ok, accepted
From now on I say, ask Jim
independent functional tests.
Jim
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connection between the Zope 2 world and the Zope 3 world.
+100
Jim
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a bridge? ;)
This is an age old argument made when someone wants to add a new
feature to a development system. It is patently false.
Jim
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organization, would be a good time to revisit how the Zope application
server efforts should be managed.
I really want to reunite the Zope 2 and Zope 3 comunities. I'd be happy if,
by the end of 2006 we could retire the Zope 3 lists and merge the discussions
back into the main zope lists.
Jim
P.S
Cool, thanks!
Jim
Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Jim Fulton wrote:
Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
FWIW:
Alot. :)
$ pwd
/home/tseaver/projects/Zope-CVS/Zope-2_8-branch
$ find . -name *.py | grep -v build-base | xargs grep
Wrapper_findattr
and not taking care of the new reference, then it is not surprizing that
you have a leak.
Jim
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Albertas Agejevas wrote:
On Sat, Nov 19, 2005 at 08:36:48AM -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
Does anyone know how to disable a mailman list without losing the
archives?
Perhaps redirect the mail coming to zope-coders to zope-dev in the
Mailman's aliases file. Something will also need to be done
(Privacy Options - Subscription rules - advertised) and second to
moderate new subscriptions (while that moderation would never take
place) (Privacy Options - Subscription rules - subscribe_policy =
Require approval)
Yup, did these already before posting. :)
JIm
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OK, I think I found a hack.
I can:
- Prevent subscription
- cause everybody to be moderated.
- Case all mail from moderated members to be rejected
with a controlled message.
If this works, this discussion will be over, at least here.
:)
Jim
Jim Fulton wrote:
Philipp von Weitershausen
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
Do we really need this list? In theory, this list is supposed to be
about repository-management issues, but that isn't what the traffic has
really been about. It has occasional messages about Zope development
issues and lots of output from
breaks on the Zope trunk, where you have to pass the module
pattern as an option rather than an argument:
$ bin/zopectl test -m MyProduct
You can still pass a module pattern and a test pattern as positional
arguments. This is for backward compatibility.
Jim
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On Wed, 2005-11-16 at 19:47 +0100, Andreas Jung wrote:
--On 14. November 2005 14:25:17 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Tue, 2005-11-15 at 00:20 +0800, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Florent Guillaume wrote:
BTW I'm for removing the 2.9 branch for now.
You didn't, so
Dang, that's embarassing. Thanks Tres!
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 23:43 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote:
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
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Mark Hammond wrote:
Not on Windows:
Windows test failures on Zope trunk
http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1931
CMF-trunk runs fine
these failures). I opened a new issue
about that:
http://www.zope.org/Collectors/Zope/1947
Ah. I'll add --all to the buildbot configs.
JIm
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** No cross
about Tres' bugfix, for example).
This is Andreas' call.
Jim
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Paul Winkler wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December
Zope releases on November 1.
OK. I thought there was going to be a 2.9 branch by now,
but I don't see one. Is the trunk totally frozen
until we get to
beta.
We can't get to beta until a lot more bugs are fixed. Everyone likes to
work on new features, but we need to get bug fixed to actually make releases.
I'm worried that we aren't going to make the time-based release schedule.
The only leverage I can see is feature freezes.
Jim
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote:
Chris McDonough wrote:
I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually
supposed to make the branch. I have just gone ahead and made it.
But yes, now that there is one, the 2.9 branch is frozen
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 12:38 -0500, Chris McDonough wrote:
On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 11:26 -0500, Jim Fulton wrote:
Stephan Richter wrote:
On Sunday 13 November 2005 10:48, Jim Fulton wrote:
Chris McDonough wrote:
I suspect there's just some miscommunication about who is actually
not care?
Jim
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that sound
reasonable for future releases?
Not to me.
Jim
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On Sun, 2005-11-13 at 19:05 -0500, Tres Seaver wrote:
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Jim Fulton wrote:
Paul Winkler wrote:
On Tue, Oct 18, 2005 at 07:21:08AM -0400, Jim Fulton wrote:
This is a reminder that there will be a feature freeze for the December
Zope
no measureable benefit to the users (as opposed to
maintainers).
Fair enough, but without zpkg there will be a lot more stitching work to
do. Way too much of zope.app is stitched in at this point. That's not
a problem if we use zpkg to make the distribution.
Jim
use the templates domain when inserting data
via tal:content. Note however, if the tal expression results in the use of the
template's example text, the templates domain should be used.
Thoughts?
Jim
--
Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered!
CTO (540
Lennart Regebro wrote:
On 11/4/05, Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Having said that, I don't really like the configure/make farce myself.
Farce?
We aren't running the real configure. We aren't really using make.
We're just using make as a wrapper around setup.py.
I'd be happy
Andreas Jung wrote:
--On 4. November 2005 11:27:10 -0500 Jim Fulton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Most people who download Zope 2 are not Python programmers. Many of them
become Python programmers later. I think this is a big part of Zope 2's
value proposition that we haven't matched in Zope 3
and move the traffic over to zope-dev.
Jim
--
Jim Fulton mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Python Powered!
CTO (540) 361-1714http://www.python.org
Zope Corporation http://www.zope.com http://www.zope.org
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
We need to stitch zope.app into Zope 2 more carefully than we
are now. Much of what we are stitching is unreleased in Zope3
and depends on things not stitched nto Zope 2.
Among other things, this means that we can't use
python2.4 test.py
Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:
Jim Fulton wrote:
What changes are those? A fresh Zope trunk checkout works for me. Here's
what I did:
$ svn co svn+ssh://[EMAIL PROTECTED]/repos/main/Zope/trunk
Zope-trunk
$ cd Zope-trunk
$ ./configure
$ make
That worked for me (though I usually don't do
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